Micro 376: Chosen Mafia - Game Over = Perfect Town Win

[Josh_B]

This game is going to be too easy.
VOTE: No Lynch

The chosen cannot be night killed. If the chosen make it to the last 4 players in the game, the town wins.
I don't even have to kill a single scum, so long as I don't lynch a chosen. Who wants to help me AUTOWIN?

[Josh_B]

First of all I want all of you to answer a quicky. If you were scum who would you veto and why.?

If I were scum, I would be adamant about NOT Vetoing TSO and hope that he was "chosen". I like to bicker with him and I would want press for his lynch. If I were anyone else, I would also not Veto Josh B. He usually gets lynched regardless of alignment.
ZZZX is semi-lynchable D1 target, and possibly a D2 or D3 target. I would agree to veto him on the grounds that it guaranteed he was NKable just in case things weren't going well for me and my partner.

But ultimately I would suggest to Veto one of the hydras. Two heads are better than one, unless they're against me. Of the two hydra's I'd veto AngryPidgeon over Anti-hero and hope that anti-hero wasn't chosen. I've never played with either of them before(that I know of), but I've seen their names around the site enough to question myself about being able match wits with them.
Everyone else in the game is null.

A-West-F-ie.

Having a pool of people who are most likely to be veto'ed makes it so that those people are marginally safer to lynch rather than someone who would most likely not be veto'ed.

This totally makes no sense. But for the hell of it, Who would you veto?

[Josh_B]

ZZZX is on my list of towns. Thanks for the support.
Game breaking can be an alignment tell if it benefits the town.
You haters are on my short list of lynchables.

[Josh_B]

have you ever managed to get me lynched

the last time you tried it, you just died in the night.

No. But it's fun trying. I really need to go back and see who NK'd my slot in that game. I'm pretty sure that bulba was involved somehow.

[Josh_B]

I'm not mad at you for it. You never got me lynched either. Maybe you'll be scum sometime and try to get me lynched when I'm town. That will be fun too.

[Josh_B]

That's true, but I most certainly would have got you lynched in Revolution Mafia.

meh, you started off totally misrepping my post. Do you really need to do that to catch scum?

[Josh_B]

awestfie is so town I can't fathom leaving this vote here even a second longer.

Anyone who disagrees is wrong, flatly.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: JOSH

Lame.

[Josh_B]

Josh-BBT scumteam?

been there done that. Not this time.

[Josh_B]

I didn't like Josh.

TSO, I think you just don't like me, unrelated to this game.

[Josh_B]

my eyes, but I think you're scum here. I like you as a person.

That's possible. Only impossible, having been in two games together, where I was scum in both. I suppose neither my style nor interests have changed. Perhaps I'm better at being scummy in my town games, than I am at being scummy in my scum games.

[Josh_B]

Flubbernugget. I like it that you seem to understand the point that I'm trying to make. TSO correctly read me as scum in two games. Of all the people who have first hand knowledge of my scum game, TSO probably has the most. So it's really a question to TSO. That I'll rephrase as such "So TSO, you correctly read me as scum in two previous games, are you going to correctly read me as town in this game?"

[Josh_B]

In post 215, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Whoa, what is going on here? Since when was I defending JB?


Since you came in and attacked me straight after I had began to attack him.

Clearly, if you felt JB was a good vote, you would not have done this. You don't have an opinion on JB, or on anyone, but you're still trying to tell me it was a bad vote. That's absolutely disgusting logic.

TSO, From my POV, I really thought you just blindly sheeped GG. BBT's post looks more like he was calling you out on that. You just latched on to those reads like they were gospel and voted. I thought this when you posted it, but I wanted to see BBT's reaction first before I posted my thoughts about it.

[Josh_B]

Townies: GG, Lying Cat, AntiHeart, Swifty
Scummies: TSO, Josh
Meh: ZZZX, Flubber, BBT.

This is awful. TSO is the only one with you who is still on my wagon. Get your shit together Hydra, while I go back and show your last reads list. And remind you that you initially wanted to policy lynch TSO.
What happened that turned Zzzx and Flubber and BBT to Meh?

[Josh_B]

GG. I really, really~ don't know how you jumped from 206 to 249.

What's going to happen if TSO flips chosen townie? And how the hell are you going to know?

VOTE: GG

[Josh_B]

Its not really that hard to figure out. EtL made 206 and I made 249. If you want to argue that hydra dissonance is scummy, be my guest, but you don't seem to be doing that. I'm not sure how you missed and/or didn't consider that these opinions are coming from 2 different people and are not likely to be 100% in line.

Hence the reason, in my last post that you half responded to, I said get your shit together. Being the case that you only half responded. I felt the need to point out specifically where I was having trouble with your group play.

If TSO flips chosen townie, I will continue to be glad that a toxic player is out of the game. Im going to know because Chosen townies flip as chosen townies .[/quote]

I reread the setup. OK. But, I see that you pinged other player's scumdar with your posts too. I also want to go back and consider A-WEST. Nearly everyone admits that a hydra is the most likely to get veto'd. But for her to say...

It's not something that "works," it's something that's just nice to keep in mind. Having a pool of people who are most likely to be veto'ed makes it so that those people are marginally safer to lynch rather than someone who would most likely not be veto'ed.

..to encourage everyone to vote a safe lynch, can possibly mean that one of the hydras could be chosen. As far as toxic players go, I'd like to see a-west nixed. What do you think about that?

[Josh_B]

Yeah, you didn't read my posts; that's cool. I, even said, even if they are safer lynches doesn't mean we're just gonna go out of our way to lynch them; I said if we end up in situation where we think two people are scum and one is most likely to be veto'ed and one isn't; then we should lynch the one who's most likely to be veto'ed, that's all. If you honestly think this is a scum-tell, then why don't you think what ZZZX did is one too? He pretty much did the same thing as I, except that he asked everyone to out who they would've veto'ed.

I don't even know why I'm still explaining something like this when I've done it two or three times already. You've made no effort to read my later posts about this and I don't know why I'm even making any effort responding to this.

It can't be changed that you suggested it. I don't care how hard you try to explain it away. It's true ZZZX also asked for other players to say who they would veto. But he never made the suggestion to lynch from that poole, and he also gave his list first. Scum on the other hand would be more likely to wait for a consensus before actually saying who they would veto, and probably not give much detail about why. Do you see any players that have done that?

[Josh_B]

Also, the fact that you're saying I encouraged people to vote someone when I haven't even voted anyone this game is drivel.

Actually, you had 9 posts after I posted what you just quoted and you only felt the need to address it now, why is that?

That's not true. I addressed it post 93
I've been waffling on what to think about #51 since it was played. I was hoping it would work itself out. But, now I think it's best to do my own challenging.

[Josh_B]

"Haha, guys. I didn't mean to say GG was fucking terrible.. I only meant that they were fucking terrible at reading me! That makes it much better, right?" Seriously,

you're almost making me want to replace out,

you're just out-right annoying.

And so it begins. Toxicity at it's worst.

TSO, if you are town, we are going to have to work together this game. How do you want to play that?

[Josh_B]

From 93 to when you last pointed it out (289), there is a nine post gap from you, yeah. Go ahead and count, if you want. You don't just "hope things work out," if you've a problem with something you point it out; you don't just let it sit there for you to go back to it later.

Yeah

I

do. But I also don't think BBT addressed it justly. Even after the convo that you and he had, I'm still not satisfied with the outcome. Even after a re-read, 51 is still the scummiest post to happen all game.

Beyond that I'm really not seeing your defense on this. I'm challenging GG to identify what constitutes justification to nix a toxic player who he thinks is town to the point that he's considering him to be a chosen. You really aren't even involved in this.

[Josh_B]

well, in terms of player-player, I'd love to work with you, but my problem is I still kinda think you're scum.

Well that's going to suck. Because I have your scum list as BBT, GG, Awest, zzzx, and Myself. Since it is impossible for all of us to be scum at the same time, I'm going to assume that we're all town and that you haven't bussed if you are scum. I'm going to take a mouthful of crow, and...

UNVOTE:

I would also like some explanation for this

If Flutter flips scum I'd be looking at myself as Chosen, actually.

What would make you chosen if Flubber is scum?

On the other hand, there does seem to be a lot of pressure on your slot, which is the reason I've been town reading you despite you being misguided.

[Josh_B]

not ZZZX.

Flubber's weird attack on me straight away for nothing.

But you don't think he's scum?

[Josh_B]

Ok. I read up.
Flubbernugget, what do you think is our best course of action right now?

[Josh_B]

Do I have to beg Josh for an explanation of his wagon? Do you think he's to stupid to realize if wants to be town read by me, he can try to clarify things for me?

A WAGON! What Wagon? Where?
I drew a picture of a wagon, no one one it, no one there to drive it, going nowhere. Lame and worthless.

[Josh_B]

As of right now, lynch you,[/qutoe]
seems kind of random,

and let GG keep bickering with people one at a time.

seem kind of counter productive

Someone is gonna slip somewhere.

seems kind of hopeful

Lying Cat what do you think is the best plan?

[Josh_B]

You also scum read awestfie for asking a question the same way you are asking one right now.

Not true. My problem with awest is the call to lynch people based on an arbitrary game mechanic on her first post. Meaning that she's thinking of the game in terms of lynching by WIFOM, and doesn't have the mind set of scum hunting. It's clever, because only the scum actually know who was vetoed and the scum have a clear shot at NKing whoever they vetoed. And town won't know who was actually vetoed until endgame.

[Josh_B]

Tell me, how is what I did any different than what ZZZX did?

A-WEST- Asked for Policy lynch by group consensus.
ZZZX- Asked for content from each player to gauge responses.

[Josh_B]

In post 303, Josh_B wrote:
TSO, if you are town, we are going to have to work together this game. How do you want to play that?


In post 467, Josh_B wrote:
Flubbernugget, what do you think is our best course of action right now?


In post 473, Josh_B wrote:
Lying Cat what do you think is the best plan?

Why do you keep doing this?

Asking people questions? TSO and GG have done a pretty good job of making sure that I can't start any wagons. Which is fine, I'll just try to generate productive content.

[Josh_B]

You also scum read awestfie for asking a question the same way you are asking one right now.

Not true. My problem with awest is the call to lynch people based on an arbitrary game mechanic on her first post. Meaning that she's thinking of the game in terms of lynching by WIFOM, and doesn't have the mind set of scum hunting. It's clever, because only the scum actually know who was vetoed and the scum have a clear shot at NKing whoever they vetoed. And town won't know who was actually vetoed until endgame.

Nope. That's not what happened. Awestfie already said this but I'm backing her up for what it's worth.

Her idea really assumes the town is going to be waffle-y, so nobody is really going after a full pursuit of it. But for an ice breaker it wasn't that big a deal. No need to dwell on it. Now I get what she was saying about you taking too long to address her answers.

I'll note your dissatisfaction, your assumption of assumptions, your attempt to ovrcome town wafflery, and your dismisiveness of scummy behaviours,
I'm also going to vote you.
VOTE: Flubbernugget

I went over the interactions between her and BBT. I still don't like it. Perhaps I'll come around in time, but until then...

[Josh_B]

The plan awestfie laid out will not work in any manner if the town has strong, confident reads, because at that point nobody would be too "iffy" to

consider the veto pool as part of a lynch.

If a waffling read isn't the opposite of a confident read, my terminology was wrong. But I think I might be easier to see this way that I have made deductions and not assumptions.

This is the problem. It isn't considering scum as the possible lynch, it's considering the "veto pool" which is town. Saying you want to lynch someone just because they are likely to be vetoed as opposed to trying to lynch someone that might be scum, is scummy.

Considering it first, as opposed to a last resort is scummy.
An open door policy lynch before scum hunting is scummy.

He explanation was "When considering a town vs town lynch, it's better to lynch a person who was more likely to be vetoed"
and my problem with that is.. "this person considering a town v town lynch right out of the gate."

[Josh_B]

Alright, now that you've answered a simple question, please answer these.

A) Am I policy lynching or showing any signs of wanting to policy lynch, right now?
B) Did my last reads post (483) have anything to do with mechanics and/or policy?
C) Are you the mafia?

A) What do you mean by signs? This exact moment?

B) How is this relevant? Is it supposed to prove something?

C) NO. I got this role PM that says I may or may not be chosen, and that I have a weapon. I was hoping that it was nunchuku but it wasn't

[Josh_B]

I don't like this growing wagon on FN. Lynching the most inexperienced player; smells like scum looking for an easy lynch so they can get to their kill.

I don't. As of right now, including myself, 5 people are calling flubber scum. What's your read on Heartless? I think they are town.

Asking people questions?

It's more than asking people questions though isn't it. It looks like buddying, you're asking people for direction instead of trying to figure the game out for yourself. Three separate people as well, so it's not like you even care who it is, just so long as someone is helping you.[/quote]

I don't know. But you are right. Usually I'm very aggressive. I'm more unsure of people this game than I normally am. Maybe it's just the setup that's keeping me from being as whimiscal as I normally am.

[Josh_B]

TSO and GG have done a pretty good job of making sure that I can't start any wagons.

This is ..... really terrible? No one is stopping you from scumhunting, you just prefer to spend your time not being townie, probably because you aren't.

You're terrible. I am scum hunting anyways. I'm just getting off to a slow start. I usually prefer spending my time OMGUSing and Flashwagonging. Unfortunately, that's been anti-town too. So, until I figure what to do that's town, I'm going to keep doing whatever I feel like at the moment.

[Josh_B]

Flashwagonging

some habits die hard. But seriously, Myvote like yours is on flubber, either you don't think he's scum and have your vote on him anyways, or you do think he's scum and that I'm scum with him.

Because I think that you are trying to say that my vote on flubber is flashwagoning.

[Josh_B]

ing over nothing, when in fact ETL and TSO had clearly suffered a miscommunication and then come to an understanding. AP is legendary for his waffles, so the abrupt 180 doesn't really bug me, but 'inane shit' is something I've seen AP regard as a towntell before and TSO was hardly obstructing discussion.

I haven't really decided where I fall on the TSO/GG line yet, but I like your evaluation. I am hard pressed to believe an apology could come from TSO !evar! Which is mostly why I'm not sure about that situation, possibly one or the other is scum. Not unlike awest to be so negative about this post.

[Josh_B]

There's two of you, you had three days to think all of this through and this is all that you guys had to say, really? Really not liking this post at all. Why are you guys playing so lazily? I wouldn't normally think that, being lazy is a scum-tell. What's bothering me is that there's two people posting on that account and it doesn't seem like it, at all. I understand that one of you was busy with "baby sitting," but why wasn't the other head posting during that time?

I've played in a hydra before and you don't just wait for the other head to give you their reads to post; you post when you want to post and keep your partner updated with your reads and they'll do the same. So, what's the problem here? I'm actually seeing this from GG/Antihero, but not from you two, so.

I forgot to paragraph break, so here's an "easier" version to read.

O I C. you think Sthar and Jingle aren't doing a good job at being a hydra. What do you think about the content of the post? Do you have anything to say about the content?

[Josh_B]

Much like your posts, it's bad.

who has good posts?

[Josh_B]

townreads i can't let go of: GG, swifty
townreads i won't let go of: ZZZX, lying cat
don't want to lynch: tso
i'll let TTH deal with: BBT, ZZZX, lying cat
would lynch:

josh

or flubbernugget

This read is going to disappoint you. Which means there is at least one scum in your town pile. If you were able to know that I was for sure town, who would actually be scum?

[Josh_B]

josh is trying to be seen as the

voice of reason

. That makes my unmentionable hairs tingle.

Whoah, You don't need to curse at me.

[Josh_B]

TWO OF YOU GUYS WITH BIRTHDAYS IN THE SAME GAME= obvious scum team.

Just playing but happy birthday anyways.

[Josh_B]

Josh was a scum-read for his buddying and looking for direction in the game. I'm sure you already knew this though; but given it doesn't fit into your case, it can be disregarded right?

I have been waiting for you to say this for a while.
I'm going to take your hesitation as a town tell. And I'm going to take anti calling you out on it as a town tell too.

Mostly, I haven't been buddying- well I admit that I did go pretty hard on TSO. And I guess this post is probably buddying. But that's it.
Maybe I haven't been playing as hard as I should be.

[Josh_B]

@Heartless, I'm actually fine with my vote. It's these two votes that I'm concerned about...

Lying Cat - [2] - Guilty Gunsmith, awestfie
BlueBloodedToffee - [2] - Heartless, T S O


Especialy considering that there are so many Vote Kangaroos.


Guilty Gunsmith, you are probably the chief. It took me a while to get it, but I think I'm going to jump off of any wagon that grows past two. At least for D1, and probably for D2. We can't no lynch, but I can un-voat.

I thought I got the game at first, but then I was like ok, I guess, I have to vote someone, and now I'm like, no I really don't. As long as the vote count stays low, I'm good. 3 votes are probably enough to lynch. Unless it's scum, and then they get a 2 vote boost on whoever they want. I probably won't be upvoting anyone past the highest number of votes, and I'm probably going to stay vote parked for the rest of the phase, unless it becomes more obvious that someone is scum.

@mod How will you decide plurality if two people have the same number of votes? If you send it to Random.org, Will players be included who have had the most total votes against them, the highest number of votes at thread closing, or the highest number of votes gained? [/bold]

[Josh_B]

tth who are you scumreading?

I'm currently scumreading Flubbernugget and Josh_B.

The major problem I'm encountering is ZZZX, because I'm also scumreading him. His ISO is pretty scant, but the fact that he manages to post to express intent to put someone at L-1 is very unsettling. It's not that he did it, it's the way he did it. He didn't

actually

put Flubbernugget at L-1, he just said he

planned

on doing it and then glibly left it at "discuss". I feel like it's a cheap maneuver to appear town.

We need to get more from ZZZX and I also need to talk to Anti about it. He probably has something to say.

-TTH

I'm not as concerned about ZZZX's intent post as I probably ought to be. But with the set up in mind, I find it more town than not. You and Guilty both jumped to other interests fairly quickly afterwords.

[Josh_B]

Are you a Jester?

No. Is this the same question as, Do you need to have a particular person lynched in order for you to win?

oh boy.

yeah boi!

[Josh_B]

@mod How will you decide plurality if two people have the same number of votes? If you send it to Random.org, Will players be included who have had the most total votes against them, the highest number of votes at thread closing, or the highest number of votes gained? [/bold]

The outcome is solely based on number of votes at thread closing. In general, the player listed at the top of the vote count would be lynched when deadline hit. For example;

Lying Cat - [2] - Guilty Gunsmith, awestfie
BlueBloodedToffee - [2] - Heartless, T S O
Flubbernugget - [1] - Josh_B
T S O - [1] - ZZZX
Guilty Gunsmith - [1] - Lying Cat
Heartless - [1] - BlueBloodedToffee
awestfie - [1] - Flubbernugget

So if deadline hit right now, then Lying Cat would be lynched. Lying Cat is listed higher on the vote count because they received two votes before BlueBloodedToffee received two votes.

There is one exception to this time tiebreaker. If I voted BlueBloodedTofee (I'm not a player in this game, but just an example) then BlueBloodedToffee would be listed highest because they would have more votes than anyone else. If I unvoted, then BlueBloodedToffee would still be listed at the top because he would still be tied for most number of votes and nobody else would have re-passed him. Even though Lying Cat received two votes first, I would still list BlueBloodedToffee as highest in that scenario.

That would be my thought process if there was a tie vote at deadline. I don't know of any other simpler method. Given that this town will always have an odd number of members during the day, hopefully this never becomes relevant.

Does this answer your question?

Yes, thankyou.

[Josh_B]

OH, the more reasons to vote park. Or to move awest to the top of the list.

VOTE: awestfie

[Josh_B]

so angry. errrghh

[Josh_B]

woah, did the game freeze?

[Josh_B]

woah, did the game freeze?

Blow into the cartridge, I'll check the cables.

I'm not feeling aswtefy wagon.

GG still scum.

There are two votes on it, I'd hardly call it a wagon. I particularly don't care for the repeated promises to catch up, then the aversion to catching up based on other people posting, then the immediate attack ad hom on the person she claimed to be waiting on, without addressing any of the points that were made followed by an "I'm done with this game" type statement.

However, if you are willing to defend her over that, I'm thinking that I may have sided on the wrong side of that argument.

[Josh_B]

Maybe if you explained why those things are indicative of scum rather than rattling off events like the conclusion is obvious I'd be more inclined to reexamine.

Active lurking, Attacking the Game, Attacking Players without considering content. These are legitimately scummy things.
So, you may ask me, why did I wait so long before casting a vote on her. And I'll answer:

It bothers me that she was called town so early in the game. Based on those claims, I'm not sure if she was being defended by scum partner or scum buddying. I've been very hesitant to decide which one. 31 pages into the game, this is where I've wanted my vote all along. With the further evidence presented, I'm comfortable being on this cart.

[Josh_B]

ZZZX what happened? didn't you have regular access before?

[Josh_B]

ZZZX what happened? didn't you have regular access before?

I was on vacation.

im in uae but net needs 1 day to be back

Dubai is a really nice place. Don't waste your time playing this game if you're there. See the sites. We'll still be wasting our lives playing this game when you get back.

[Josh_B]

Josh or Awestfie lynch right now.

It's like we're on the same page only we're not.

[Josh_B]

Spending a day in dubai is as expensive as fucking craps

I was visiting so I had some extra money to spend, and used it snowboarding at the mall. I call it snow boarding, but mostly it was sliding down a hill on my ass with a piece of fiberglass attached to my feet.

[Josh_B]

.. had a chance to vote a scum read,
...called the wagon too fast.
.... still scum reading the said person.

My face...


Also using someone else's scum reads- sheeping and being lazy.

I'm currently scumreading Flubbernugget and Josh_B.

I could move my vote to BBT, but I'm so hung up on Awest. That attack on lying cat was super scummy. The hesitancy from others to call it scummy has got me twisted. The only town case I have for Awest, is scum defending town?

[Josh_B]

I am going to admit I am absolutely fucked. I have no townreads except maybe awestfie. None.

Why is Awest town?

I can see the case on GG, but it requires a bus. What do you think about that?

[Josh_B]

Ya BBT isn't the worst vote in the world, but I think Josh is just scum.

In this game or at life?

[Josh_B]

can I see a show of hand of people not interested in lynching me?

[Josh_B]

Flubber any last words?

[Josh_B]

although I was on Awest's case yesterday, the Flubber flip give me a solid reason to think that she is town. I am going to vote Lying Cat. as my prefered lynch of the day. I may or may not consider others as a possibility.

VOTE: Lying Cat

anti- you have dirty socks and your breath stinks when you don't brush your teeth.

[Josh_B]

Willing to lynch Josh or ZZZX today.

Your recent posts are awful ZZZX. Voting someone if they scum-read you and then retracting that vote if they town-read you...wtf?

Willing to lynch BBT or Lying Cat today.

BBT, that double soft hammer, has me thinking "bus". If you considered how much Flubber wanted to lynch me, I think you would reconsider your targets for today. And this...

BBT just end it ffs.

Lying Cat- I think I took the wrong side of the awest argument. Flubber flipping scum with his last vote on awest made me rethink why you didn't scum read her yourself for that crazy attack that she pulled on you.

[Josh_B]

If you considered how much Flubber wanted to lynch me, I think you would reconsider your targets for today. And this...

I didn't see FN pushing you all that much. He did leave his last vote on you though so I'm not sure what that means.

If you don't think he pushed me all that much than you need to re read the game. His vote means that he wanted to lynch me, that's what votes mean.

[Josh_B]

Lying Cat. I don't know if I can explain my reads more. It's just that I see awest as town because flubber was willing to say that she was scum, so she probably isn't. Actually what are your reads?

BBT kind of picked up exactly where he left off yesterday with out considering any of the game.

[Josh_B]

I know you

want

to lynch me. It's probably part of your wincon.

VOTE: BBT

I would say OMGUS, but I was looking for people to be very specific about who they wanted to lynch. And you are the winner. It just happens to be that it was me.

[Josh_B]

The scum can't kill the chosen, they have to lynch them. Let them kill people, while we no lynch to victory.

That was actually

my

plan at the beginning, and what followed is the reason I started town reading zzzx. I'm not sure what my normal playstyle is, but if you mean erratically jumping to conclusions and never being right? I am trying to change that but I'm still working on it.

Besides what I've already said, BBT also said that there wasn't a bus on D1, yet in order for him to vote me, he has to believe that there was a bus.

[Josh_B]

What if BBT just really thought Flubber was town, didn't think the read all the way through, and then pride prevented him from ever re-evaluating that idea?

Then he would have reevaluated the game according to the information from the flip. Exactly like every other good townie does.

As to the rest of it, TTH and AntiHero. I think you are stalling for no reason. You seem to be coming to the same conclusions that others are only you are second guessing yourself. Sometimes town gets a perfect win.

Sthar said she was going to make a case on me. I'd like to see her either do that or cast her vote in some other way.

I'd like to see some sort of involvement from awest. on this.

I'm also wiling to bet my life on this. especially if BBT flips chosen.

[Josh_B]

Besides what I've already said, BBT also said that there wasn't a bus on D1, yet in order for him to vote me, he has to believe that there was a bus.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't think scum bussed on the FN lynch.

WIFOM. But what makes you think that? Bussing is always a possibility that should be considered.

I don't really know what to do. Like, my reads were so far off yesterday (not liking the FN wagon when it was on scum, scum-reading Heartless when they obv town now) that quite frankly I'm a little embarrassed and I don't know where to go. I

really

don't want to re-read this whole game because there was soooo much shit posted on D1. So it kinda puts me back to the drawing board.

This is great! I can appreciate this. Only... you are scum reading the exact same people as you were DP1, so I'm not buying it.

As I stated earlier, I don't think scum bussed so that left me with awestfie, Josh and Z. I'm still town-reading awestfie (albeit not as strong as my D1 town-read due to her D2 disappearance, but still town) so it's between Z and Josh for me.

Then he would have reevaluated the game according to the information from the flip. Exactly like every other good townie does.

I haven't re-evaluated? I'm pretty sure I'm voting you based on the FN wagon and lynch.

The FN lynch that you never liked, and the FN lynch that you dissolved when it was only me, GG and Heartless on. Good job on dissolving that wagon. I was going to wait for end game to tell you that. But now is probably appropriate to mention it. Others are either dismissing it or not looking at it.

I'd like to see some sort of involvement from awest. on this.

I'm also wiling to bet my life on this. especially if BBT flips chosen.

What does this mean?[/quote]

Part 1. What does awest have to say?

Part 2. If BBT flips town, Lynch JoshB. If BBT flips chosen, quicklynch JoshB. I would even vote myself.

[Josh_B]

Vocal detractor, yes. Vote, wagon, case? No. Also note that Flubber really only wanted josh lynched

when he was already in danger of being lynched.

And his vote didn't come down on Josh until it was a single vote wagon, AFTER the threshold for compromises. Vanity wagons are a scumtell, but sometimes they're associatives too.

I mostly agree with this. There was a lot of talk about people wanting to vote me, but like I said a wagon never really took off. Plus I got a lot of flak over the first semi wagon that was started on me from Flubber which would have never come from a scum buddy.

GG's point about TSO is also good. Sure, he might have just died for being obvtown. But he had no solid reads, wasn't pushing any wagons, and assuming GG is town he was the only person drinking my Kool-aid. Surely there was a more threatening target. I mean, Heartless would have been a better shot. And ETL, TSO did not want to lynch you. He said my case was good but that he wouldn't support it on day 1.

Heartless would have been a way better shot. No one is even suspicious of them. But if I was scum in this game, I would have shot awest. Everyone else in this game seems to think she's town despite last dp's protests. GG would have been a good target too, they seem to be the town leaders, and the Flubbernugget lynch pretty much confirms them as town.

Finally, take a look at the BBT/ Flubber exchange at the end of the day. Flubber comes off as frustrated and desperate, but especially given BBT's last post I feel like Flubber was attempting to set him up as today's lynch. There's no way a sane scum would post "I feel incredibly frustrated" after hammering his buddy. I know there's WIFOM and all that, but this is a case of the negatives clearly and heavily outweighing the positives.

Why wouldn't you be frustrated if you hammered your buddy? My opinion was that flubber didn't even need hammered. He had the most votes so he would have been lynched by plurality. No frustration necessary. The best possible conclusion that I can come up with is that BBT didn't think he was hitting scum. The more reasonable conclusion is that he was bussing his already dead partner when there no way to create a counter wagon- even by plurality.

[Josh_B]

The FN lynch that you never liked, and the FN lynch that you dissolved when it was only me, GG and Heartless on. Good job on dissolving that wagon. I was going to wait for end game to tell you that. But now is probably appropriate to mention it. Others are either dismissing it or not looking at it.

Is there a point to this?[/quote]

It makes me think that you are scum.

[Josh_B]

The point is that BBT diffused a wagon on scum. There was a wagon on scum, and for whatever reason, it was BBT who diffused the wagon. And he attempted to do it not once, but twice. It wasn't until fubbernugget was finally like "I'm a PR" that BBT voted him. With 4 on the lynch so close to deadline, there was no reason to try to whiteknight from the flubber lynch he would have been lynched by plurality. Whiteknighiting behavior is what I see from BBT on the flubber lynch.

[Josh_B]

Where did Lying cat go?

BBT do we have to argue all the time? I don't know what ETL was going on about. Maybe you should ask the right person.

[Josh_B]

Hooray. Hostile intent. How are you?

[Josh_B]

Great! I'm not reading 44 pages; let's just get that the fuck out of the way right now.

Ok. Then I'll fill you in. On what I think.
I scum read your slot all of DP1 because your predecessor wanted to lynch whoever was the most likely to be vetoed by the town and made a big deal about Lying Cat(Sthar8 and Jingle) sucking at being a hydra.

Now I'm scum reading BBT. He seems to be very pointed that he wants to lynch me. The interactions between him and flubber indicate that he is possible buddy. Also Flubber wanted to lynch me so I'm biased against anyone that wants to lynch the same people flubber did.

Do you want to get on this wagon?

I'm pretty sure both GG and heartless are town. Heartless more so than others. ZZZX is pretty townie too.

I feel like I am kind of waiting on a post from Sthar about a case against me, but that hasn't happened yet and I'm not sure that it's going to.
Unless you are scum, since you aren't going to read the DP, you can either sheep me, heartless or GG.

[Josh_B]

ing another one of your townre

I lol when I get asked this question. I'd tell you exactly how I feel, but I think you already know the answer.

I don't like second guessing myself.

[Josh_B]

Then I'll point you to specific pages, but then you'll still have to read all 44 pages, because half of it will be out of context.

He's not actually at L-1 right now. ZZZX is voting me because I said I'd 1v1 for a BBT lynch. And apparently he thinks that's scummy.

[Josh_B]

Really? is it too much? Next time I won't say that. I'll just say I'll 1v1 over it.

[Josh_B]

This game is probably going to hold like this for 6 days 23 hours and 12 minutes.

ETL, why did you unvote?

[Josh_B]

Sthar, I didn't ignore you.
What do you think about BBT and why?

At this point it looks like you are still trying to push a GG/Josh scum team even though we already have a flip.

[Josh_B]

Do you guys take night-kills into consideration? Because it looks like BBT or to an extent Josh had something to gain frm the T S O nightkill, but that might not be under your site meta or whatever.

I do take the night kills into consideration. I also take into consideration who wants it to look like someone else did it. And who is creating WIFOM about it and why.

LyingCat is easily becoming favored lynch.

[Josh_B]

Sthar, I know that you thought GG was scum on the first day. I'll admit the back and forth on scum reads was a little disconcerting for me, but GG and Heartless both voted for a scum lynch twice, but you still seem to be more concerned about the other stuff they are doing and not focusing on the game- which is really easy: lynch scum/win.
All the stuff that you are talking about can wait til endgame.

You keep posting without voting and I'm grabbing the drain-o because it seems like you are circling, but not really going anywhere.
The plan that I came up with on D1 about not voting and making scum push the lynch doesn't really work anymore, or rather it did work(caught scum) and now it's time to move on.

I see that ZZZX, myself, and BBT are in your pool of viable lynches... So vote BBT. If that's wrong, it's going to suck, but it is what it is, or vote me if that's what you want. Maybe you are looking for information that you don't think you can have without my flip. But as the game goes forward, if BBT really is town, I'm going to be looking in your direction because what you are doing is distracting(talking about things that won't matter if we win), stubborn(not voting), and wasting time in a game that is likely to be a perfect town win.

The case on BBT as scum is about as solid as you can get in a game like this. If it isn't, I've already stated that I'm willing to take the fall for it.

[Josh_B]

He then told

BBT

to hammer him rather than run out the deadline,

which is incidentally one of the only points I can see for BBT being scum. He had no reason to hammer because plurality, so did he do it for the towncred? I don't think so, given his next post. I'd bet he just forgot about the impending deadline resulting in a lynch.

Yes, I think he did it for towncred. The deadline was that day.

pedit: I'm working on my skills. But Seriously. Get on board. We'll either have plenty of time to talk about that stuff that you want to talk about, or it won't be necessary.

[Josh_B]

Oh yea. I invented a lot of randomness in Marvel. But I already made my case about why I think BBT is scum. It wasn't a hard case to make.
ZZZX I think this long drawn out pause is making you second guess yourself. It' natural. But that over zealousness in marvel is what made you think I was scum in the first place (amiright). I'm trying to slow down.

Self discovery is the epitome of learning- Josh_B
It's something that I've said for a long time, I'm just trying to put that into practice. You saw first hand how I tried to slam my displaced read, and my read of you down everyone's thoughts, and you were both town. That really hurt my pride. i.e. I need to be less aggressive.

[Josh_B]

Heartless, or ZZZX can you please hammer BBT, I know plurality lynching and all, but can we speed the game along?
Lying Cat already said that they aren't going to be any help, or else I'd invite either of them to hammer too.

[Josh_B]

I don't want to repeat myself heartless, but I think I've already debunked the ideas that you contemplating...

have you ever managed to get me lynched
the last time you tried it, you just died in the night.

No. But it's fun trying. I really need to go back and see who NK'd my slot in that game. I'm pretty sure that bulba was involved somehow.

I'm not mad at you for it. You never got me lynched either. Maybe you'll be scum sometime and try to get me lynched when I'm town. That will be fun too.

If I wanted TSO dead I would have tried to get him lynched because I enjoy it.

Heartless, go back to..

ok, so BBT is scum...

[Josh_B]

You are talking about 1192 as wifom right?

[Josh_B]

The truth is out there... but here we sit. Waiting for everyone to second guess themselves. ZZZX, I'm looking at you.

[Josh_B]

UNVOTE:
I'm not even sure why I'm in the game at all.

[Josh_B]

VOTE: LyingCat

Now you decide to play the game?

[Josh_B]

Never.

[Josh_B]

I really think that BBT is scum, but I've been wrong before on him. The signs say he is, but while everyone sitting here with nobody posting second guessing ourselves. I joined the fray. Plus the unvote was kind of an apology for something.
But POE, the only person I won't vote for this DP is Hostile Intent. I went on a one man crusade to lynch Awest DP1 and got no support except from Flubber who was scum, his vote appears to be a lost attempt to start a counter wagon. That is a sign to me that Awest was town.
Also...

Well I want either a Josh or Awestfie lynch right now.

says probably not bussing.

For anybody who is now wondering, I bus as scum, but I'm not going to flash wagon, or attempt to flashwagon my partner. So those of you considering me and Flubber as a team, stop. But as I was thinking about that I considered who was generating the most WIFOM on that as a possibility. And LyingCat came to mind. I know dagom Sthar is lurking like a boss.
As if I haven't WIFOM'd myself to death enough in this game/post.
This actually needs to die...

The flubber wagon was scum-driven. Scum-driven.

And I'm moving my vote back to the most likely scum. So, whoever wants to vote this with me, Come on.

VOTE: BBT
L-1(pretty sure)

[Josh_B]

[quote="In post 1209,
josh's last post is

awful

.[/quote]

94% truth. I'm having a hard time doing AtE.

Got any pointers?

[Josh_B]

I'm not sure why the scum team town read Awest on D1.
BBT, I didn't understand you going after my lynch on D2, when I was semi wk'd on the flubber lynch. I probably would have pushed that Flubber was bussed. And if I did that, I probably would have been lynched too. So, here's some salt to go with the WIFOM.

I'm kind of the wizard of WIFOM.

AngryPidgeon, First time playing together, long time fan. I didn't read you this game, I thought that mostly you were playing with ETL, and not the rest of us, but such is the nature of a hydra. I thought if you were scum, you would have been more engaged. ETL seemed town enough so that even when you guys were making no sense, I kept a town read on your hydra.

TSO, this is the first time we've played together on the same team. I was suspicious of your alignment from the beginning, but I didn't want to jump at you like I have in other games. At the start of DP2, I deleted a "thank god" post 3x. I'm pretty sure you would policy lynch me any time the wagon is right, and I would do the same for you. On a side note, your interactions with AP/ETL gave me some good vibes about you this game. (a town read, but I'll never say that in a game)

ZZZX- Always town. Thanks for posting while you were on vacation. your posts had a feeling of slight despair. You wanted to be here to play and get reads, but you weren't able to because of your situation. I kept my faith that you were town, even though you wavered on me at the end. I wasn't sure what to do to get you back on board with me being town, but such is the nature of the game.

Sthar it was fun. You were thinking about the game from different angles which is normally good, especially in larger games. But I was wondering if you would ever read the game directly from the angle of the flip. DP2, it was really starting to feel like your angle was too skewed to be natural. Jingle-Null.

BBT good job of defending your partner. Too bad he still got lynched D1.

Flubber, slow down. I don't know how many scum games you've played but you seemed very eager to get people lynched this game(this is also a problem that I still have). Your refusal to give a Lying Cat read was nice, and it slightly pointed to them as your partner. I think we'll make a great team.
#SABBATHonSABBATH

TTH/Anti, I pretty much ignored you this game. Middle town.

Awest, scum all day. Awkward Policy Lynch, attacking the players outside of the context of this game, a very sticky vote on LyingCat with a slight deviation to Flubber. With a little more buddying from Flubber, I could have easily seen you as being his partner over BBT.
HostileIntent, very cleverly played with intro. Did you actually read the game or no? Scum was already caught by the time you replaced in, or rather the day's lynch was mostly decided. I still can't believe it took soooo long.

Wicked thanks for hosting this game, the chosen aspect was a nice underlying guessing game. I never figured it out. I thought it was me and GG. I wasn't trying to break the game or make it freeze like Antarctica. I was just hoping to garner some town posts (like ZZZX) and some scum posts (like awest and flubber) to get an idea of where I should start scum hunting.

[Josh_B]

[quote="In post 1226, Wickedestjr"][/quote]

[Josh_B]

That reminds me of "The good the bad and the ugly."
The guy is like, "Well I already took the money, so I'm going to kill you anyways, but I'll accept payment to kill the guy who hired me to kill you before I put you in your grave."