Micro 376: Chosen Mafia - Game Over = Perfect Town Win

[Heartless]

I haven't been able to talk to Antihero about this game, but my first impression is that I don't trust Guilty Gunsmith.

Antihero, if you're reading this, actually pick up when I call tonight.

-TellTaleHeart (I will be abbreviating this to -TTH in the future)

[Heartless]

my first impression is that I don't trust Guilty Gunsmith.

lol... alright. I'll bite.

Why?

p-edit: Just pretend the other game doesn't exist and never existed. Don't even mention it.

Because I think AP really comes off as the guy at the party who's trying to be funny and cute, but it's because he's hiding the fact that he has a black card. I'm also wary of the fact you're trying to butter us up with stuff like this:

yep. I'd guess either us or Heartless were veto'd.

If I were scum I'd def veto Heartless. <3

-TTH

[Heartless]

oh hey everybody, i'm here!

also, i'm not signing my posts, deal with it.

[Heartless]

alright, so the GG read isn't

bad

per se, but i definitely think you blew your load with that one, TTH. you should have kept it to yourself. if you thought ETL was playing to manipulate me (she very well could have been), you should let that read simmer because if she really is scum, she's just going to adjust her strategy now.

also, TTH, you have total control over the vote. you're the student driver here. i'm just here for moral support.

[Heartless]

see, i'm already off on a great foot.

EXCELLENT

[Heartless]

soooooo, flubbernugget is scum, that's cool.

TTH, if you have any doubts here, you can look at post 65, post 79, post 91, post 136 aaaaaand his whole TSO push is pretty fucking nonsensical

[Heartless]

Because I think AP really comes off as the guy at the party who's trying to be funny and cute,

Anti, your sister called me cute!!!

<3

keep your britches on, buster brown

[Heartless]

But ultimately I would suggest to Veto one of the hydras. Two heads are better than one, unless they're against me. Of the two hydra's I'd veto AngryPidgeon over Anti-hero and hope that anti-hero wasn't chosen. I've never played with either of them before(that I know of), but I've seen their names around the site enough to question myself about being able match wits with them.

oh you have, don't cover your face and pretend you don't know me

revolution mafia

[Heartless]

GOODAMN THIS INTERNET IS SPOTTIER THAN MY DOG

[Heartless]

holy shit, i think TSO is town

THE END IS NIGH

[Heartless]

alright, TTH, you can call me tonight or whatever, but you'll have to fill me in on some details on what's happened since and what's going on in the thread

don't vote from this pool though: [TSO, ZZZX, awestfie]. this is the "town to townish" pool i'm working from right now.

guilty gunsmith is almost there. i see flashes of town from etl. (post 55 is a good example here). i wouldn't vote them either.

flubbernugget is so scum. if you need any help with this i will sit you down, step by goddamn step, and go walk you through it.

right now, i have to go

[Heartless]

hey TTH

so i got your message and i'm now here instead of painting my kitchen or preping for the lecture i have to give next week BECAUSE THIS IS ALL FOR YOU.

ALL. FOR. YOU. TTH. THIS IS OUR BONDING TIME.

YOU GET ANTIHERO WITH EXTRA NEUROTICISM.

Well I don't want you to neglect anything.
Take care of yourself, Anti.

guilty gunsmith is almost there. i see flashes of town from etl. (post 55 is a good example here). i wouldn't vote them either.

Really? I remain very skeptical and I think your internet crush on ETL is clouding your judgement.

ETL, what are your current thoughts because I'm having more trouble following

you

than Antihero (and you're disappointed in him?).

soooooo, flubbernugget is scum, that's cool.

TTH, if you have any doubts here, you can look at post 65, post 79, post 91, post 136 aaaaaand his whole TSO push is pretty fucking nonsensical

I looked at all these posts, and I'm not sure what conclusion you're coming to. I will grant you that his accusations of TSO seem tenuous at best, but you're going to have to tell me how that's any different than say.... Guilty Gunsmith's push on Josh_B.

Personally, I somewhat dislike BlueBloodedToffee's random unvote in Post 153 (link) and his reactions to TSO's questioning seem very nervous.

So yeah, Anti, please do the sit down and walk through because I'm feeling pretty lost looking over your series of posting earlier this evening and now I feel kind of stupid because I know you have to have some kind of thought process here and you're a pretty sharp guy.

[Heartless]

I forgot to sign.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I had a talk with Antihero last night and it was very edifying. He said that his scumhunting strategy hinged on the setup. In this case, scum have to push lynches on certain people they know at the beginning so he was looking for anybody who seemed to be too aggressive too early for bad reasons. With this mindset, I can now very much see what Anti disliked about Flubbernugget.

In order to get a handle on your slot, I need to interact with Anti because I can read him very well. If he doesn't interact with me, I have a harder time reading him. He didn't even acknowledge me, even though I was right there, posting at the same time. That's very disappointing.

In any case, I am an open book. So ask whatever you need to.

You can flirt with Anti later. He'll be on in a bit.

Personally, I somewhat dislike BlueBloodedToffee's random unvote in Post 153 (link) and his reactions to TSO's questioning seem very nervous.

Not so random when you see the votecount right above my unvote.

I looked at it and I don't see what you apparently want me to see. What is it?

-TTH

[Heartless]

Josh was your second vote of the game, and looking at VCs you were on the wagon at it's largest point. Are you saying that was a second random vote? Why did you leave it on so long?

It was intended as something to try and get the game going. The quick-lynch comment was tongue-in-cheek.

I completely forgot I had voted for him. Hence the unvote after VC from Mod.

That's not what you told me before. Why is the story changing now?

-TTH

[Heartless]

Spoiler: slippy slips

are you serious... now we're an option? you're so full of shit.

print out the damn thread and take it home with you! dont give me this "but i dun know whats goin on you see!" nonsense. get in the game and read me correctly or else I will assume there is a reason you aren't.

I count on you Anti. That's all.

The flirting is just a bonus

I need to sync with AP. Expect a more in-depth post when that occurs as I have been otherwise engaged. Say, next 24 hours or so.

ETL

i said i would be mostly playing a support role here and that's exactly what i'm doing.

i'm looking now, though....

[Heartless]

ETL, why are you ignoring us? We're here and willing to flirt. Just tell us why you're gaslighting our hylian friend.

now what are you going on about sthar? what's this?

[Heartless]

AP has complete carnival of lunacy feel so reading him is a fool's errand

ETL is pretty damn town

[Heartless]

Anti, have you no heart? Throwing me to TellTale to lynch me : (

i'd rather have her explore the avenue now and be able to hit the emergency break if it comes to it than shut her down right now

[Heartless]

Really Anti? Usually AP waffles a lot more than this, I feel like he's pretty tame.

-ETL

in comparison to other players? yeah AP is a hyperactive kid in a candy store who wants to chase after anything that shines.

doesn't matter. i don't

have

to read him though, so i won't. i'll read you.

[Heartless]

really really

[Heartless]

ETL is pretty damn town

really?

let me ask you something. who are you not scumreading?

[Heartless]

because

1) she's actively scumhunting
2) she's grabbing my shirtcollar and pulling me into the game instead of shoving me away

see: dark age of the law for what i'm talking about

now. you tell me. why is she scummy?

[Heartless]

zzzx is my only confident townread. yes, really.

that's...... actually pretty lame

[Heartless]

i understand.

i still think it's lame.

Votecount 1.14:

Josh_B - [2] - Guilty Gunsmith, T S O
T S O - [2] - ZZZX, BlueBloodedToffee
ZZZX - [1] - Lying Cat

Not voting - [4] - awestfie, Flubbernugget, Heartless, Josh_B

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

[Heartless]

i'm not seeing BBT as scum, TTH

we need to sync

[Heartless]

like, yeah, he's not the most articulate player here and his line of thought doesn't really seem that well thought-out, but i can see a

thread

of logic that goes through all his arguments and they make sense from a town perspective.

[Heartless]

lying cat is also town for trying to suss that out, by the way

TSO i'm changing my mind on because this looks like "caught for the wrong reasons" syndrome.

[Heartless]

i'm here and i'm talking to myself like an asshole

where did you go etl?

[Heartless]

canadian girl who's name i can't spell is still town. flubbernugget is still boringly scummy.

[Heartless]

because

1) she's actively scumhunting
2) she's grabbing my shirtcollar and pulling me into the game instead of shoving me away

see: dark age of the law for what i'm talking about

now. you tell me. why is she scummy?

because she hasn't done anything yet I don't think is easily fakeable as scum.

I didn't like her trajectory on #142 (I didn't like it, I didn't like it, oh wait I like it). I didn't like that she still said she was scumreading BBT on gut when there were a lot of relevant things he'd done I felt were alignment-telling and she said they weren't scummy while still maintaining a scumread. it's hard to explain, but it was almost like she was disagreeing for the sake of it.
I don't understand their trajectory on me (probtown, town, town, scum, confscum) either. ETL did the exact same thing as me, yet I was called scum for it, which should have triggered a bell in AP's mind (town did this, he did the same, this tells me something).
I think AP's hyperactivity is a bit too much.
I hate posts like #332 because it feels like ETL is using "let's sync up" as an excuse to drop towntells and get away with it.
The earnest tone in which she says a lot of things straight reminds me of me in 536 - I hate saying that, but it's the only comparison I have.

please don't give these kinds of posts without links because i assure you i'm not going to look up game "536" and now i'm having to go thumb back through post numbers

[Heartless]

Town
awestfie, lying cat
gg, lying cat
bbt, zzzx

josh

TSO
flubbernugget
Scum

[Heartless]

I don't think Sthar is town.

why's that?

[Heartless]

hrmrmrmrmrkjphpjphphahjlkfd;jalksjd;lfjsadf

[Heartless]

i think sthar is just getting snowed

[Heartless]

i can see how he probably thinks BBT is scum (reading between the lines of the questioning) and with this tinting, he thinks TSO is town

that's going to color his read on you

Votecount 1.15:

Josh_B - [2] - Guilty Gunsmith, T S O
T S O - [2] - ZZZX, BlueBloodedToffee
ZZZX - [1] - Lying Cat

Not voting - [4] - awestfie, Flubbernugget, Heartless, Josh_B

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

[Heartless]

TBH, there is no good reason to be townreading ZZZX right now. I'd ask you guys why you are townreading ZZZX but that would just generate bad reasons for townreading him.

~AP

well, i'm doing it and it feels good.

[Heartless]

AP what are you thinking re: lying cat?

[Heartless]

Ya well Im eating Korean BBQ spicy pork and it feels good.

cute

[Heartless]

/sigh, it would be lot better if reading josh's iso didn't feel like washing my hair in a toilet bowl

[Heartless]

whatever, my analogy sounded better in my head

before i actually said it

STOP JUDGING ME

[Heartless]

alright............

so TTH

vote TSO, flubbernugget or josh

good things will follow

[Heartless]

I'd like to see the vote count before casting a vote.

-TTH

[Heartless]

if that's what TTH feels is best, that's what she's going to do. i disagree, but i don't suppose to know everything and she's probably got a tighter rein on things here anyway.

Are you insane? I already feel like I'm way out of my league. I think the roles are reversed here and I need to stay out of

your

way because I feel like the remedial kid in the class.

I don't understand how you think TSO is scum or how BBT is town or how Lying Cat is town.

TBH, there is no good reason to be townreading ZZZX right now. I'd ask you guys why you are townreading ZZZX but that would just generate bad reasons for townreading him.

~AP

well, i'm doing it and it feels good.

I know you're good at this game and all, Anti, but I actually think you

should

articulate your townread to AP. I see confirmation bias showing through in your answer here and if you get to the root of your read, I think you may find it's not entirely rational.

-TTH

[Heartless]

really? i thought it was scummy.

[Heartless]

But who do I scum read? Right now, my biggest scum read is still Josh. Even when I'm defending him, I can't do so in confidence. A-west is leaning town for her intentions, but if I keep seeing weak arguments that's gonna change. Big fat null for GG and TSO. Although I have an eye on TSO. Also not digging some of his arguments. My big issue with these two is that I don't think I can read emotions very well. Definitely doesn't help that a hydra was in play.

This leads me to realize I have no reads in my notes on BBT, Heartless, or Lying Cat. I probably won't have much on cat, but I can go back and fix that for the other two.

>i'm defending him but i can't do so in confidence
>leaning
>big fat null
>i have an eye on...
>i have no reads on...

this is a big mushy piece of shit paragraph designed to

look

like opinions when there's nothing there that even remotely resembles an opinion

[Heartless]

oh yeah, and "hydra" as an excuse to not have a read

/fart

[Heartless]

VOTE: flubbernugget

executive powers activate

[Heartless]

So what I see from Heartless is that they were the only people that really tried to grill GG on anything (TSO doesn't count, and that was more defense than anything) and all they got was a town read off of GG. My gut says that's a mutual town read, but I have to think that one through. I also want to see how they read my catchup post.

/looks at activity overview....

48 posts and this is it?

:scumposting:

[Heartless]

oh wait no, there's actually

more

than 48 posts because i'm not counting my main slips.

again, the "catchup" is a bunch of safe shit and there's really nothing useful to be gleaned from it.

[Heartless]

you know TSO, you could quit being an inflammatory asshole for the sake of being an inflammatory asshole (which i've

seen

you use to advance a scum win condition before) and actually, you know, give some solid scumreads.

[Heartless]

ETL where are you and what is AP saying to you about flubbernugget because i don't think he's doing a good enough job talking to you about that so i'll do it

[Heartless]

I explained everything I saw in the above paragraphs of that post and and then summarized my reads in my last paragraph. What seems to be the problem with my reads that you don't consider them valid opinions?

no

you quoted random things and made little snipe-y comments about them that have that little bitter bite of scummy bitchiness in them. (the indignation over lying cat saying "gaslighting", "i have no idea what you're trying to read from your wagon")

they're not

invalid

opinions. they're not opinions at all. anything that comes close (your read on josh) is so clouded up and obscured by doublespeak that it's impossible to separate them from people you really do have no opinions on (which is.........

EVERYONE else

; except for canadian girl, you "lean town" on her which is more doublespeak)

unlike normal newbtownies, you don't seem to have a sense of the game as a whole and you don't seem to care. it looks like you're just mining at little things, hoping you look busy enough to everyone else.

it's textbook scum. unfortunately for you, i read the textbook.

you're scum.

[Heartless]

also, you're not fooling anyone when you make a show talking about "your notes" (*wink wink*)

that's another thing

[Heartless]

...and for someone who had "notes" on the TSO vs GG fight, you had shockingly little to say about it. in fact, they ended up being "big fat null". that's a pretty dissatisfying conclusion to come to.

[Heartless]

i'm at about 99% on that read.

like... this is a goodmorning level read

you need to give it priority

[Heartless]

this isn't about if i trust AP

i have no idea what he's saying to you behind your walls of your hydra PT, so i am here to talk to you about it myself

i'm coming off as impatient because i am. i want to send wicked 5 million day vig PMs right now, but i know that's not going to do anything so i'm just going to sit here and yell and scream like an asshole until i get that scumflip which I KNOW GOOD AND WELL is happening

[Heartless]

if you read absolutely nothing else

read the latest string of "catchup posts" and what i say about them

[Heartless]

oh for fuck's sake

All of his posts make it pretty clear that he's looking for something and contributing the opinions he has confidence in.

name one

[Heartless]

though I disagree with a lot of the conclusions.

name.

one.

which one?

any one?

[Heartless]

none of those are "conclusions". post 82 is the closest he gets and even that's "meh". the rest are rhetorical questions which is a zero risk play.

zero risk plays are kind of a scum thing

[Heartless]

like seriously, you've nuked your read.

is this dark age of the law part 2?

[Heartless]

don't act like you don't know what i'm talking about.

my candle jack read was a piece of shit there, right?

[Heartless]

i'm off the rails, it's going to be hard to get back on. and yes. my shit is flipped and will remain flipped until i die.

if you want to make a reads list and all, cool. we can compare notes.

[Heartless]

Off the rails? Why are you off the rails?

i'm scumreading flubber to an irrational point.

there's not enough day vig bullets you could give me that would satisfy me. EVERY POST I SEE FROM YOU TOWNREADING FLUBBER MAKE MY EYES BLEED.

i might be crazy, but i'm not wrong

[Heartless]

anything that's not killing what i'm killing


becomes what i'm killing

impetus

[Heartless]

I don't like that you're making that kind of assumption though when there are other issues going on here.

THERE ARE NO OTHER ISSUES

i see red

he knows he's scum. i know he's scum.

[Heartless]

I also don't like how quickly you flipped that switch as though you were waiting for the opportunity to do so.

right, because i totally knew what you were going to say.

IS THAT YOUR ARGUMENT?

DAMN

[Heartless]

So, sthar8's babysitting this morning. He will be back later, probably later today, to post. Anti, don't feel too bad about Especially the Bird's insane reads, given that they're, you know, scum.

OH HEY JINGLE

YOU'RE JUST IN TIME

FOR FRONT ROW TICKETS TO THE SHIT SHOW

[Heartless]

i don't fake meltdowns

as either alignment

you jolly well know this

[Heartless]

ridiculous?
blind?

yes.

but it's irrelevant.
and it doesn't mean i'm wrong.

[Heartless]

/sigh

just let's take it one step at a time.

do whatever you think you need to do. read the game, whatever and we can go from there. i don't know

how

divergent our reads lists are.

[Heartless]

past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. whenever i feel like i have a really good scumread and you shoot it down, i have chainsaw flashbacks to dark ages.

[Heartless]

Antihero.
ETL.

Stop it

This has gotten entirely out of hand.

Anti

So there's this thing where, instead of

questioning

our basic assumptions and beliefs at the most critical times, we cling most tightly to them. You've taken this to the extreme by calling anyone who disagrees with you scum. I get that scum can defend buddies who are under fire, but that's clearly not the case here with ETL,

especially since her hydra partner thinks Flubbernugget is scum.

This is obvious stuff, Anti. I can't believe I'm having to tell you this. You flying off the handle at anyone who disagrees, even with a really strong read, will hurt you in the long run and will most assuredly make your reads

worse

.

ETL

While Anti has indeed overreacted to your opinion, I will respectfully disagree with you regarding Flubbernugget. Anti's arguments in post 422 make sense to me and this see this diplomatic, non-committal behavior from Flubber makes a lot more sense from a scum perspective than a town one.

Now, you seem to have responded to Anti's nonsense with even more nonsense. He scumreads you for disagreeing with him, and you scumread him back because your theory is he was waiting to go off on you because he someone knew you would disagree with him? That doesn't stand up to very much scrutiny and I think you're as blinded by raw emotion as he is.

Now both of you line up so I can smack you.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Your double speak rant is also full of shit. A west is leaning town. That means I have town reads on her and I have scum reads on her. These are the nit picks you're criticizing. My "double speak" is a summary of what these reads mean to me. The town things I have seen right now out weigh the scum things I have seen on her, but not by much. Do I have to explain these things in such excruciating detail? Mafia wouldn't be much fun if everyone fell asleep trying to read my posts, and that doesn't even consider all the fluff my posts would actually have.

No, it is not "full of shit". Doublespeak is actually a pretty apt description of what you've been doing, and you would make Orwell proud with how delicately you've been towing the thin line of not actually giving reads on many players.

[Heartless]

Anti, I've come around to your townread on Guilty Gunsmith. I've made myself happy with a ZZZX townread. I don't quite understand it, but you and ETL seem to agree on it so I'll just trust you there. Same thing for BlueBloodedToffee. You and AP seem to agree and what you tell me makes enough sense, so I'll make myself happy with that townread too.

People I think you need to look out for are Lying Cat and Josh_B. I don't really understand your townread on Lying Cat and you've already told me that sthar8 is a pretty skilled scum player so I'm not really sure why you seem to be kind of lackadaisical about this read. As you and AngryPidgeon both pointed out, Josh_B seems to be making himself scarce in terms of content.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Errata:

While Anti has indeed overreacted to your opinion, I will respectfully disagree with you regarding Flubbernugget. Anti's arguments in post 422 make sense to me and this diplomatic, non-committal behavior from Flubber makes a lot more sense from a scum perspective than a town one.

Now, you seem to have responded to Anti's nonsense with even more nonsense. He scumreads you for disagreeing with him, and you scumread him back because your theory is he was waiting to go off on you because he knew you would disagree with him? That doesn't stand up to very much scrutiny and I think you're as blinded by raw emotion as he is.

I should not be doing this at 11 at night.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Oh. Here's a good example of hydras being a bitch to read, too. You're pushing a shit read on me, and TTH is calling it out. It's like some sort of "good cop/bad cop" thing to really fuck with your head. How do I know if it was a legit disagreement? It's a WIFOM thing that doesn't do anything for town other than give them more shit to sift through. I think this is also part of that hydra dissonance GG mentioned.

No, this is actually TTH. And I agree with Antihero and his vote on you.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Heartless' 'meltdown' was weird. Didn't feel genuine at all and I'm really not sure why it was so OTT either.

I'm sure Anti has something to say about this (none of it positive).

But are you going to say anything about why or are you going to leave it to everyone's imaginations?

-TTH

[Heartless]

And I explained why I thought GG was scum and you just gave me this bull about page numbers. I told you not to bother because I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain a scumread when your mindset is so against it you refused to even try to find it.

it's not like you'd scumread etl anyway, anti.

If you want to talk over the top bitterness, I see a lot coming from TSO for not much reason.

p-edit: Very briefly, I

have

had you, swifty, ZZZX and BBT as town. TSO and LC as scum. Flubber/Josh as maybes/unknowns.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

What is this post for? I don't get it. Since AngryPidgeon's talked quite a bit about Flubbernugget being scum, why are you taking one of ETL's lines out of context and trying to make it look like a contradiction?

-TTH

[Heartless]

i'll take josh or flubber

that's it

[Heartless]

/sigh

i already have TTH shrieking at me about Lying Cat. go ahead. get it out of your system.

[Heartless]

i'm not going to be as active as i usually am, etl. that's the fact of the matter.

i'm not sure who Oort is, but it sounds pretty nice about now

[Heartless]

Google him. Be amazed. Fall in love. Cry.

/pukes

ugh, sorry etl i got a little motion sick.

too fast.

[Heartless]

well, my constants right now are swifty (not sure why i'm calling her that now but whtvr) and GG. i'm not voting either of them.

TSO is really taxing to read (nothing to do with you, TSO, it's me) but he seems fine?
i think lying cat has his fist firmly planted up his ass and is asking entirely the wrong questions. you wanna' give a reads list or something sthar?

to preserve my mental health, i'm going to townread ZZZX. i choose to do it. end of the fucking discussion.

BBT... oh jeez this guy....

BBT: Oh, this Flubbernugget wagon iz so eaaaasy
<flubbernugget wagon disintegrates the next second>

it's straight out of the goddamn three stooges.
seriously? what are you doing, BBT?

...that's the only question that comes to mind for me right now. your premise is that the flubbernugget wagon was scummy, but i'm the only scummy wagon on it because "oh lolz fakeraeg". and now you're sitting on a TSO wagon that's made of lead.

if you really think josh is scum, you should, like, vote him.

[Heartless]

ok so i was sitting on the toilet and it clicked with me

BBT is scum

[Heartless]

>the criticism of the flubber wagon (even though precisely ZERO fucking

scum

reads came from the wagon)
>the irritatingly long time it's taking to waffle on us
>the vote parking on TSO (a zero accountability vote) for the longest time

and now...

>the random jump onto lying cat with no reads progression following from recent posting

lying cat wasn't anywhere near the flubber wagon. if you want to sit here and

swear up and fucking down that the flubber wagon was on scum

, then your scumreads should follow from that,

but they don't

it's flubber/bbt scumteam

gg

[Heartless]

meanwhile at the legion of doom....

Spoiler:

There's two of you, you had three days to think all of this through and this is all that you guys had to say, really? Really not liking this post at all. Why are you guys playing so lazily? I wouldn't normally think that, being lazy is a scum-tell. What's bothering me is that there's two people posting on that account and it doesn't seem like it, at all. I understand that one of you was busy with "baby sitting," but why wasn't the other head posting during that time?

I've played in a hydra before and you don't just wait for the other head to give you their reads to post; you post when you want to post and keep your partner updated with your reads and they'll do the same. So, what's the problem here? I'm actually seeing this from GG/Antihero, but not from you two, so.

I forgot to paragraph break, so here's an "easier" version to read.

Agree and disagree.

I agree that despite the detailed coverage, there's a lot of the game that hasn't been touched.

As far as how you play as a hydra, maybe it's just a different style to discuss before you post? I'm honestly not sure here because I've never hydra'd, so someone else might have to step in for me here.

I also somewhat agree with what LC brought up. LC also saw a lot of things I world have never have been able to see. My only issue is I have no idea how to determine whether or not an insult was truly "over the top. " Way to meta for me.

What about LC's observations do you see as bad?

:activelurking:
:scumposting:

[Heartless]

actually

VOTE: BBT

[Heartless]

I'm leaning scum on you from your attack on FN. You can see that from the reads list I provided so I'm not sure why you don't think I got any scum-reads from that wagon.

oh? so are you "leaning scum" on lying cat now or what? (also "leaning [anything]", is a completely meaningless term that justifies a soft push)

I'm waffling on you? I don't even know what to say...

you don't? how about "i'm struggling to read heartless" because you said that only three times now

Spoiler:

So ZZZX and GG are town.

Leaning town on Josh.

Null on FN. Catch-up posts are so easy to make and pretty much always look pro-town so it gets ignored as far as being alignment indicative. Would like to see more.
Null on awestfie, I need to see some more, gut is telling me something is wrong here.
Need to ISO heartless/LC coz can't get a read on either for some reason.

TSO is scum. Surprised he is still alive.

I have to be honest and say I'm struggling with Heartless and it's kind of frustrating me now.

Some of their posting strikes me as town but I can't shake this bad feeling and I think it's mainly from the attack on FN (which does actually include some good points). It just seems such an easy lynch to go after though and it's not sitting right. I'm gonna need some more time.

Town
GG

awestfie
ZZZX

FN
LC

Heartless

JB/TSO
Scum

That isn't what I said.

I said your suspicion of Heartless for pushing Flubber is ridiculous when you are strongly townreading the other 2 people who supported a Flubber push.

My reads on yourself and awestfie are not solely based on the FN wagon/suspicion. The only player I'm strongly town-reading is you, hence the gap before awestfie and ZZZX.

I am struggling to read Heartless. I am getting the majority of my read from their push on FN, which I think is a bad wagon.

[Heartless]

I still maintain it's Josh/BBT over Flubber/BBT.

i think bbt is scum

you think bbt is scum

there's a natural follow-up to this

[Heartless]

>flubber's wagon is "easy" (even though it magically disintegrates) but bad boy lying cat wagon is all cool
>lying cat isn't even a scumread
>josh is a scumread and a

bunch

of people talk about him being scum, but

i'll never vote him

>flubber's wagon was

sooooooooooooo

scum driven, but maybe it's not because there's some good points, but heartless is "leaning" scum because blahablhblahlkdjsaf;jds;lkajf;lkdsajf;lkdsaj;lkfdsajfsalk; /fart

seriously, BBT's "reads" are a big, tangled, fucked up web that doesn't connect to the

actions

(the vote patterns).

forget logic. the simple fact of the matter is that he's not pushing the lynch that follows from his reads (josh), he's pushing

a

lynch.

[Heartless]

actually, i misspoke earlier.

josh

was the scumread that came from the flubber wagon.

there's a lot of anti-flubberwagon rhetoric, but when the chips are down and it comes to the only thing that matters (the vote) why does josh remain untouched?

we know BBT doesn't have a problem with one-man vanity wagons, so what is it? what's the reason?

[Heartless]

tso's right

it is josh/bbt

[Heartless]

oh wait a second, i misspoke

again

. josh already has a vote, so it's not even like he'd be trying to build a vanity wagon up from scratch.

i smell.

so much bullshit.

actions do

not

match up with rhetoric.

[Heartless]

....or i guess

had

since tso moved his vote

point still stands

[Heartless]

ANTI are you TRYING TO CREATE CONFUSION?

WTF. How about we just get an L-1 wagon on everyone on the list. That's a good idea. Then no one can do VCA ever yaaaaaay.

fucking. wut.

ETL

haven't been able to get anyone to L-1 yet but that's hardly my doing

[Heartless]

Spoiler:

oh? so are you "leaning scum" on lying cat now or what? (also "leaning [anything]", is a completely meaningless term that justifies a soft push)

Nah, LC is null. Said that in my previous post I believe.

>flubber's wagon is "easy" (even though it magically disintegrates) but bad boy lying cat wagon is all cool
>lying cat isn't even a scumread
>josh is a scumread and a

bunch

of people talk about him being scum, but

i'll never vote him

>flubber's wagon was

sooooooooooooo

scum driven, but maybe it's not because there's some good points, but heartless is "leaning" scum because

blahablhblahlkdjsaf;jds;lkajf;lkdsajf;lkdsaj;lkfdsajfsalk; /fart

he chose to go after an easy lynch.

seriously, BBT's "reads" are a big, tangled, fucked up web that doesn't connect to the

actions

(the vote patterns).

forget logic. the simple fact of the matter is that he's not pushing the lynch that follows from his reads (josh), he's pushing

a

lynch.

Flubber was an easy target for a lynch, I don't even know why this is being debated. I also don't know why you keep saying it 'magically disintegrated' or language along those lines. Is that somehow relevant?

Correct. LC is not a scum-read.

Josh is a scum-read

but not

for the reasons you have decided it was for. More later.

I feel sure Flubber's wagon was scum-driven; scum can bring up valid points just as well as town can.

You're right, I'm not pushing a lynch on one of my scum-reads right now. Can't disagree with that.

actually, i misspoke earlier.

josh

was the scumread that came from the flubber wagon.

so what is it? what's the reason?

Josh was a scum-read for his buddying and looking for direction in the game. I'm sure you already knew this though; but given it doesn't fit into your case, it can be disregarded right?

If I say the reason, it kind of defeats the object of my vote. Which I no longer care about, so...

I voted LC to try and run her up and see if I could get a better read from their reaction to a growing wagon on them.

I am a little tentative to take you on in this game because of the respect you get from the other players, but fuck it. I'm going with it now. I think I'm right and I'm gonna do it.

VOTE: Heartless

oh, so now you're going to

show

me.

also, you might as well not be voting now.

[Heartless]

Josh was a scum-read for his buddying and looking for direction in the game. I'm sure you already knew this though

oh? i read your fucking mind?

you howled about fubberwagon was scum + josh is now a scumread

2+2 makes 4

[Heartless]

yeah

this game is in need of some TTH

can't argue with you there

[Heartless]

oh? i read your fucking mind?

Nah. Look at 493 and 514.

You don't need to 'read my fucking mind'. It's right there; in black and white. Had you bothered to look.

...that's even

more

nonsensical...

so, now you're going to sit here, nitpick at me, and deny that him being on the flubberwagon was a factor at all, even though it should clearly be from your opinion of "flubberwagon was so scummy"

i'm done with you. your scummy colors have already shown.

[Heartless]

I'm just trying to figure shit out and I cant do that when there are a million different wagons.

well, i can name all the people who's fault that is:

lying cat
BBT
josh
ZZZX
flubbernugget

[Heartless]

etl:

think beastcharizard from pick your poison

BBT is nitpicking at the

particular reasons

but it doesn't matter what the nitty gritty reasons are because the natural thing that follows from the thoughts in BBT's posting is a

solid, unequivocal

vote on Josh_B

this is what townies do

they vote who they think is scum AND they vote for what gets the

best results

. TSO was already voting josh, everything was all there, so

why didn't he do it?

. why don't you ask him yourself? i did. all i got was a big fat.............nothing.

and now all this dancing around now with a vote on me is a charade meant to subvert what i said earlier (i.e. he's "showing" me).

[Heartless]

...that's even

more

nonsensical...

so, now you're going to sit here, nitpick at me, and deny that him being on the flubberwagon was a factor at all, even though it should clearly be from your opinion of "flubberwagon was so scummy"

i'm done with you. your scummy colors have already shown.

I gave you my reasons for why I was scum-reading Josh. You tried to suggest it was for other reasons so that they fit into your now falling apart case. That is misrepresenting and misleading.

The flubber wagon was scum-driven.

Scum-driven

. Am I scum-reading GG? No. Am I scum-reading awestfie? No. A lot of my read on you came from that attack on FN and now this awful case you have tried to put together on me.

I'd be done with me as well if I realized I'd just made a pretty bad move.

well, you haven't addressed the case at all, so now this is just scum bluster

keep truckin' to your grave, friendo

[Heartless]

like, seriously

ask him why he didn't vote Josh.

the answer so far is "well I wasn't scumreading josh for [reason X you said], it's because of [reason Y you didn't say]."

that doesn't answer the question AND THAT'S NOT A TOWN RESPONSE

[Heartless]

did i ask about lying cat?

did i mention lying cat?

am i now talking about lying cat?

am i talking about a pressure vote?

no.

why was your vote never (and continues to not be) on josh?

[Heartless]

Well, I've only been here a couple minutes, but BlueBloodedToffee's obvious insecurities with himself are already pretty annoying to sift through.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Anti, I feel like you're trying to re-invent the wheel every time you sit down to read this thread. Let's get some stability going, I think that will be good.

It looks like the people you trust (what you call "constants") are Guilty Gunsmith and awestfie. From what you're posting, maybe TSO belongs in this group. I'm not sure what your thoughts are on that or if you even think it's important. That's something to consider, though. As for me, I agree with you on all of these.

That leaves: Josh_B, ZZZX, Lying Cat, BlueBloodedToffee, and Flubbernugget.

I see you're saying you don't

want

to sort through ZZZX and Lying Cat, but I'm going to say "tough". These are two key players that need work.

ZZZX is really hard to get a bead on, mostly due to his recent inactivity. I see his latest scum reads are Guilty Gunsmith, TSO, and Flubbernugget, but that was from page 12, so it's kind of old news. All we have now is his intent to put Flubbernugget at L-1 which was never followed up on.

ZZZX, your opinions on any current matters would be greatly appreciated.

Lying Cat is a tough nut to crack mostly because I'm naturally distrustful of them and anything I look at of sthar8's that I think looks town is swallowed up in a black hole of paranoia. I will say that I think his reaching out to Anti and TSO feels town and his frustration regarding awestfie's attacks come off as genuine to me.

That leaves Josh_B, BlueBloodedToffee, and Flubbernugget in the dregs of the reads list. I feel like BlueBloodedToffee is very

re

active and you're taking that as a scumtell. I'm thinking that might have more to do with personal play style, though. Flubbernugget has done nothing to change my opinion of him and Josh_B seems to be continuing the pattern in his ISO of not contributing much to the overall discussion.

-TTH

Votecount 1.27

Lying Cat - [2] - Guilty Gunsmith, awestfie
BlueBloodedToffee - [2] - Heartless, T S O
Flubbernugget - [1] - Josh_B
T S O - [1] - ZZZX
Guilty Gunsmith - [1] - Lying Cat
Heartless - [1] - BlueBloodedToffee
awestfie - [1] - Flubbernugget

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

[Heartless]

@TSO, Heartless- I'm not in tunnel mode, so don't ignore me. Talk to me about GG. We have a couple of days before compromise time, let's use them.

From what I'm gathering, if you boil your case down to the precipitate it's: "Guilty Gunsmith are pushing a TSO lynch for bad reasons. Specifically, ETL overreacted to TSO's perceived attack on AngryPidgeon's integrity as a player."

Since the discussion sometimes takes a very toxic turn, it's hard to say what emotions are "real" and how that's alignment indicative. You seem to think ETL's reactions were exaggerated, but

why

is this? Is ETL very protective? I simply don't know enough about ETL as a person to make these calls. I do know that if someone made a personal attack (or something I perceived to be a personal attack) on Antihero, I would have some choice words for them. I could also see how that kind of emotion can drive a vote.

Is there anything else other than that interaction that makes you think Guilty Gunsmith is scum?

-TTH

[Heartless]

tth who are you scumreading?

I'm currently scumreading Flubbernugget and Josh_B.

The major problem I'm encountering is ZZZX, because I'm also scumreading him. His ISO is pretty scant, but the fact that he manages to post to express intent to put someone at L-1 is very unsettling. It's not that he did it, it's the way he did it. He didn't

actually

put Flubbernugget at L-1, he just said he

planned

on doing it and then glibly left it at "discuss". I feel like it's a cheap maneuver to appear town.

We need to get more from ZZZX and I also need to talk to Anti about it. He probably has something to say.

-TTH

[Heartless]

My townread on awestfie was very much shaken by her latest series of posts.

-TTH

Anti wins another bet.

Damn.

-TTH

[Heartless]

who am i?

what am i doing?

[Heartless]

who am i?

what am i doing?

not saying hi to me, that's what.

I'll get him back for you somehow, ETL.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I've been thinking about BBT and why there's a wagon on him and I think I've come to a conclusion. I have yet to get completely happy with this lynch so I'm going to explain my thoughts here and hope that BBT can have some sort of response to them that can help guide me in shoring up a read on him.

BBT is a very reactive player and often needs to be spurred by someone else to do anything with his vote. The first episode of this was with TSO in post 215 and the second was with Antihero in post 639. The roots of Antihero's issue with BBT are one, his lack of a vote on Josh even though it's BBT's ostensibly strongest scumread and two, his vocal objections to the Flubbernugget wagon. It seems we got an answer to one: BBT's timing with the Lying Cat vote just happened to coincide with the development of the Josh scumread (post 658). However, even with Antihero's interrogation, the deepest answer we got to two was that the Flubbernugget wagon "smelled like scum looking for an easy lynch" which is far from a satisfactory response because it leaves fundamental questions unanswered:

Why

are you so seemingly convinced that Flubbernugget is town and

why

do you think it would be a mislynch?

Antihero sees this and concludes that BBT

can't

explain why because the read is fabricated. Thus, BBT is scum.

Do you have anything to clarify/add, BBT?

-TTH

[Heartless]

Flubbernugget, I'm not going to sugar-coat it: your contributions to the game have been dismal and serve a very pro-scum agenda.

Whenever I read through your ISO, I see very little in the way of well thought out reads or original thought and a lot of bickering with other players (posts 393, 480, 510, and 656 are all perfect examples).

Your latest post 729 is also bad. You were criticizing Antihero's BBT read before, calling it "shitty". You even went so far as to say that you "didn't like [the vote]". Why are you suddenly OK with the possibility of voting BBT? And why are you waiting for someone else to give you direction on the vote?

_TTH

[Heartless]

I'm not convinced Flubber is town at all, I'm convinced that was the easiest wagon/lynch to push in the game, and I didn't like it. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Sorry, that's not good enough. Anti wouldn't take that for an answer and I won't either.

Are you even thinking about it much yourself? It doesn't look like it. It looks like you just want to dig your heels in and stick to your story. Is it because you're town who can't get past his own ego? Or is it because you're scum and you have to look decisive to avoid appearing weak?

Either way, it's fairly annoying and I wish you would just spit it out already.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I haven't given much thought to Flubber no, paid more attention to the wagon on him.

You can't be serious. That read was the linchpin of your argument that we were scum, but now we're hearing that you haven't given much thought to Flubber himself?

Unbelievable

I'm not very good at this.

-TTH

[Heartless]

VOTE: flubbernugget

[Heartless]

Do I have to explicitly state every thing I didn't like about awestfie's or Josh_B's play is a scum tell?

yep

and if you want bonus points, they have to make sense

[Heartless]

I agree, to an extent, but some things make me doubt my read. Here, for example, instead of defending himself and preventing his lynch, he's still trying to figure stuff out.

vote flubber then

your townread on him is a piece of shit anyway

[Heartless]

THREE MORE VOTES FOR A SCUMFLIP

COME ONE COME ALL

I'M SO EXCITED, I'M GOING TO PISS MY PANTS

[Heartless]

in fact... i'm pretty sure i've already pissed my pants......

good night everybody

[Heartless]

/fart

ok so i was sitting on the toilet and it clicked with me

in fact... i'm pretty sure i've already pissed my pants......

Anti, you're so refined.

I found your new theme song.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I'm not going to be on before deadline, but it looks like we need 2 more votes to get a lynch in the next 6 hours.

Tick Tock

-TTH

[Heartless]

[lying cat, bbt]

i think it's bbt

so, on one hand, we've got mr. bbt the chainsaw wielder

AND ON THE OTHER

we've got lying cat the pooh-pooher who wanted to take us all down a rabbit hole of bullshit w/ guilty gunsmith

actuallyactuallyactually

zzzx might be scum

GG looks somewhat better? seriously?

if GG is scum, i'm going to fill up a big mixing bowl full of shit and lucky charms and eat it

all of it

finally got off my lazy ass and changed accounts

HAPPY TTH? HAPPY WICKED?

[Heartless]

Unvote

.

Vote: Lying Cat

oh hey swifty.

so, just to let you know, TTH is having a little crisis about you and i

kind of

don't blame her. she's way too nice to say it, so i'm going to:

this. what you're doing right here. is terrible.

i don't know what you're doing. what you're thinking. but i

do know

that this is the routine you were going through while we were busy lynching scum. i personally think you're town because of flubber's stupid ass pushes on you, but please make TTH feel better about you because i'm telling her the associations between you/flubber aren't there, but she wants to see more from

you

.

[Heartless]

ETL? AP?

WHO IS THIS?

[Heartless]

Maybe, you, should sit back and realize that it's indeed your reads that are bad. If you, honestly, think that Flubber pushed on me this hard yesterday while I was his partner then maybe it's, you, who has a problem with reasoning.

And if you honestly think I've been playing this hard since 2012, then, you're delusional. I don't have 8k posts like you do and join every game that gets opened, I've a life outside of this.

There's no way anyone can even genuinely think I am scum here, but I'll be honest: I don't really care, dude. This game has been absolutely awful with all of you meta'ing shit over and over and acting like you're much better than you actually are. There was way too much drama, in this game and if you seriously expect me to read all the shit posts you guys have had then you're absolutely clueless.

Calling someone a "VI' or someone with "invincible ignorance" is fucking stupid. Do you seriously think I enjoy playing this game when all you guys do is bash other people's reads instead of actually just playing the game? You guys are all playing this game with your heart in your sleeve and don't care about anything else.

Absolutely awful. And, yeah, it might be a little bit ironic coming from me, but can you seriously blame me when you guys have been doing the same shit this entire game? No, you can't. I honestly don't give a fuck if I get lynched here, I'd rather not have to even read this game any further, to be honest.

So, either a) you guys stop insulting fucking everyone that you disagree with or b) you play a fucking game of mafia.

Thanks.

Honestly, I think this post is far and away more toxic than

anything

sthar8 or ETL said during their admittedly heated exchange.

-TTH

Votecount 2.3:

Lying Cat - [1] - awestfie
ZZZX - [1] - Guilty Gunsmith

Not voting - [5] - BlueBloodedToffee, Lying Cat, Josh_B, ZZZX, Heartless

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-10 17:11:03)

[Heartless]

Because giving someone else the job of reading this shit-fest is fucking disrespectful, that's why. I don't replace out when I know a table has potential and this one really does have potential, you're just all playing so emotionally and it's getting un-fun. It's like I'm playing with 8 Majiffy's or something.

And, no, I'm not saying Majiffy plays emotionally, but the way he plays is incredibly annoying. Other than this table, he's probably the only person who has gotten on my nerves.

And voting someone who hasn't even had the chance to post yet is absolutely silly, just unvote him and let him contribute. If he doesn't, then we'll see what we want to do.

This is egregiously out of line.

If you're not having fun and you don't care to explain your rationale for your vote because you think we're all

so

terrible to be around, there's the door. I'm sure Wickedestjr will find someone who doesn't think they're above talking to us.

-TTH

[Heartless]

p.edit:
[edited out most of my post because i think she gets it]
i can put up with swallowing your bullshit, swifty. but once it starts spilling over onto TTH we've got problems, champ.

There's many pages (read: TSO vs. GG, Antihero vs ETL, etc.) where it's just a few users being hateful to each other and getting far too emotional over a simple little thing.

LOLOLOLWAT

even if etl disagreed with all my reads from now to doomsday, i'm

never

going to hate her. there's not much she could possibly do TO make me hate her. she knows this. i know this. no matter what shit talk we throw around here, that's all it is.

mommy and daddy will fight sometimes. get over it.

goddamn it

[Heartless]

Now let's just play the game, without random insults out of no where.

NO

SCREW THAT

everyone, i want to insult me in your next post. OUT OF NOWHERE

I DEMAND IT. I WANT IT TO BURN.

[Heartless]

TTH, i know you're sulking around here, you too

i'm serious

the moment we all have to start walking on eggshells around each other out of fear of hurting each other's feelings is the moment we won't get jack shit done

[Heartless]

etl, i read the game you're talking about with ZZZX.

now what are you talking about here?

[Heartless]

Antihero, you are pretty bad at mafia.

weak

you're the most sorry excuse for a person i know. are you a person? or are you a sentient pile of crap that came to life after someone ate an e. coli burrito?

answer that and i might vote zzzx

[Heartless]

/sigh
sorry everybody. i feel like i'm going a little nuts...

you have the conn, TTH.

[Heartless]

guyett is my houseplant. jingle is my honeypot.

what am I?

your chamber pot?

[Heartless]

I'm not going to insult you, Anti. Now get a grip and go get some sleep. It sounds like you need it.

I need some as well. In the meanwhile, I'll do some thinking on ZZZX and swift. I played in the game ETL is referring to and I'll try to think about what kinds of differences between this game and that which are applicable. As of right now, I'm at a loss and can't think of anything, but something might come to me.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I feel like AP is the only one reading the same thread I am.

-TTH

I'm just the worst.

-TTH

[Heartless]

AP is my top scum read and ETL is my top town read

what to do what to do LOL

AP is your top scum read? Why?

ZZZX's ISO is like a haunted house. There are a lot of superficial things wrong with it, but the part that's actually terrifying is when you actually get inside and explore.

The first problem I encounter is that, in terms of reads on players, there aren't any. Most of his early game activity was focused on calling TSO scum with a brief exchange with Flubbernugget in posts 128 and 137 where he apparently argues that Flubbernugget slipped. The part that gets me is how quickly ZZZX seems to abandon this read and move on to some unsubstantiated bus theory between TSO and GG in post 280. The deepest explanation we ever get is that he "smells it in his bones"; this leaves a lot to be desired.

I've already discussed my issue with post 541 in post 683. It's actually even more unsettling with Flubbernugget's scum flip. It leaves me with this impression that he wanted to

look

like he was advancing the lynch without

actually

advancing it.

And then this latest series of posts directed at Guilty Gunsmith are very strange. There's no explanation for the AP scumread and he meets AP's criticism by trying to crawl through the trapdoor of "playstyle" which seems very evasive to me.

Summary: I don't know what ZZZX thinks about any of this playerlist. When I examine his existing activity and look beyond superficial posts and digs at TSO, I'm left with nothing at the core. It's not because he's merely been absent, I know he can have reads and opinions because he showed us this in the early game when he was scumreading TSO. This leads me to the conclusion that he doesn't have any reads and the few he's expressed so far are invented.

VOTE: ZZZX

-TTH

[Heartless]

on this account now

what am i doing?

[Heartless]

I feel like AP is the only one reading the same thread I am.

-TTH

oh jeez

internet crush on AP + AP agrees w/ read = TTH puts on horseblinders

we need to sync TTH

[Heartless]

ok, so BBT is scum...

like... this isn't rocket science AP, what's the disconnect for you here?

[Heartless]

@anti- talk to me about bbt.

well, let's see, there's the fact that he chainsawed the shit out of me for reasons that we

never

got to the bottom of (that's kind of a big deal)

there's .... everything i said yesterday about him

now we're seeing that ZZZX is magically on the suspect list now that AP and TTH are pulling that thread.

oh, and there's the fact that flubbernugget also chainsawed me for BBT

[Heartless]

BBT kind of picked up exactly where he left off yesterday with out considering any of the game.

What is there to consider?

I don't think scum bussed D1. Yourself, ZZZX and awestfie were off the FN wagon. Given I am town-reading awestfie, that leaves me with yourself and ZZZX.

I would prefer to lynch you over ZZZX, but I'm not too fussed either way really.

Shouldn't game be too simple if it worked like that?

I personally think scum is one of the people on flubber wagon. I find you a good match after reading you.

That and the part where Josh is one of my few town reads.

Vote:bbt

holy shit am i going to have to eat crow?

[Heartless]

if you can't tell the difference between me and TTH, i don't know what to tell you man

now

readslist. go.

[Heartless]

what's he telling you etl?

because what he's saying in this thread isn't really doing anything for me.

Votecount 2.6:

BlueBloodedToffee - [2] - Josh_B, ZZZX
Lying Cat - [1] - awestfie
ZZZX - [1] - Heartless

Not voting - [3] - BlueBloodedToffee, Lying Cat, Guilty Gunsmith

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-10 17:11:03)

[Heartless]

/sigh

wanna' trade hydra partners?

[Heartless]

that should be to AP...

[Heartless]

AP what are you doing?

he's dedicating the rest of the game to being the third mafia goon.

what are you doing?

[Heartless]

Anti, you acting like something is obvious is a very dangerous way of thinking. I see all your points on why you think BBT is scum, but they can all be explained by BBT simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time in terms of his reads or by Flubbernugget being scum and wanting to intentionally mislead everyone. I submit to you that ZZZX has no such explanation for his behavior the first day and he's been avoiding my most recent line of questioning. He has yet to explain to me why AP is a scumread of his and now he's making this broad assertion that scum was on the Flubbernugget lynch yesterday which is as unsubstantiated as it is self-serving.

Articulate your townread on ZZZX. It has to see the light of day now. I thought I asked you to do this a while ago, and it never ended up getting done. If it sounds like I'm a little irritated with you, I am. Please do this.

AP

: Don't you dare shut down on me. You and Antihero can have your little Alpha male fight later, but we're still left with issues now. If that takes pages of discussion, so be it. I'm willing to have that talk, why aren't you?

Lying Cat

: Let's talk about your Josh read. Given that Flubbernugget was one of Josh's most vocal detractors for a good portion of the day, why is it you seem to think they're teammates?

-TTH

[Heartless]

You and Antihero can have your little Alpha male fight later

I don't need any of your sass, Mister AngryPidgeon.

Don't make me come smack the pretty off your face.

If that takes pages of discussion, so be it. I'm willing to have that talk, why aren't you?

Because the anti-depressants I'm taking are making me more confident about myself and I really wanna
people instead of going on and on about logic in a game where logic only gets you so far.

You've changed your mind quite a few times since this day's started, AP. It sounds like the logic games are still at play to me.

That was the case.

TSO had a boner for lynching Josh.

TSO dies.

Who dunnit?

Nightkills for townies don't seem to imply good reads. I've only finished one game and I've already figured that out. Anything else?

-TTH

[Heartless]

ETL, this isn't really about if I "trust" you or Anti or anyone else.

Of course I respect you all and your opinions, I just want to get this right.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Man, Z', you are posting up a storm all over the site but here! Golly!

No etL is right though you are totally town.

You are incorrigible, AP.

ETL, is there any plausible reason why ZZZX would be specifically avoiding this game? And avoiding me when I'm specifically trying to have a conversation with him? I still have yet to hear why BBT or AP are scumreads, though I do see that ZZZX is monitoring our activity enough to get onto Antihero about signing his posts.

-TTH

The score is 4 to 20.

Still not as bad as Anti.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I went back and reviewed Flubbernugget's activity and cross-referenced mentions of ZZZX. I didn't find anything other than a short exchange at the beginning of the game regarding an interaction between TSO and ZZZX.

Since we now know that TSO was not a chosen townie, we can eliminate that as a possibility for the reason for the push. That leaves a few more possibilities: (1) ZZZX is really a chosen townie and Flubbernugget slipped up and revealed that he knew this information, (2) ZZZX is just a vanilla townie and Flubbernugget fabricated this case to pit TSO and ZZZX against each other, and (3) ZZZX is Flubbernuggets teammate and the posts serve to scare the town into not voting ZZZX by planting this idea that he's chosen.

There are several indications that (1) can be eliminated. We see that he quickly drops this idea that ZZZX is a chosen townie and TSO is trying to get his lynch. He never brings this idea up again. In post 393, ZZZX is completely absent from the player-by-player analysis. If ZZZX really was a chosen townie, I would think there would be a couple apparent consequences; namely, we would see Flubbernugget keep ZZZX in the analyses in the hopes of advancing a false read and we would have seen more people pursuing a ZZZX lynch at some point on Day 1. As far as I can recall, I'm the only one who brought up scumreading ZZZX on Day 1 in post 683.

That leaves us with (2) and (3). I believe the points I brought up in the previous paragraph also suggests that it's more likely to be (3) than (2). If Flubbernugget was really scum trying to stoke the fires of a town against town fight, I would think the points he mentioned in the beginning of the game would be worth repeating. But he never bothers to mention ZZZX again. Why is this? We've already seen ZZZX bemoaning the fact that he's an "easy lynch" so if scum were given the opportunity to throw suspicion on him, why wouldn't they? It has to make you wonder.

The only thing I'm left with is that ZZZX is Flubbernugget's partner and he was protecting him.

Do you have anything to add, ETL?

-TTH

[Heartless]

I just did the same exercise in Flubbernugget's ISO with Josh.

It appears that Flubbernugget was one of Josh's most vocal critics for most of the day. He was one of Flubber's "strongest scumreads" at the catch-up point (link for convenience) and remained that way for the rest of the day, but the only time he actually voted Josh was at the end of the day and he was the only vote on Josh at the time. I'm left with a couple likely scenarios: (1) Josh was a chosen townie and Flubbernugget figured that the wagon had enough people supporting it anyway to where he didn't need to vote him and risk getting caught on a chosen wagon or (2) Josh is Flubbernugget's teammate.

I think Flubbernugget's behavior of cheering on the wagon without actually joining it suggests (1) more than (2). If Josh was actually a scumbuddy, I would think Flubbernugget would go ahead and throw Josh under the bus to improve his public image. It makes more sense to me that Flubbernugget wanted to advance the lynch without leaving a trail that could lead back to him.

What's your take on this, Lying Cat or AngryPidgeon?

-TTH

[Heartless]

In the interest of thoroughness and because I want to procrastinate on my mat sci homework for just a little bit longer, I did the same thing with Lying Cat and BBT.

For BBT

:

In the catchup series (link) I see that Flubbernugget doesn't really say anything one way or the other about BBT. In post 656, he criticizes Antihero's scumread on BBT. Then in post 729 he says he would consider voting BBT if Guilty Gunsmith told him to do so.

I think the most telling post has to be post 729. It reads to me like Flubbernugget already knew BBT was town and was preemptively trying to diffuse responsibility for the vote. If BBT was really Flubbernugget's scumbuddy, I would think Flubbernugget would either go ahead and throw him under the bus or defend him to the bitter end. It doesn't really help his public image to ask for permission from someone else to vote. With this in mind, Post 656 also makes sense. Flubbernugget would already know Antihero's read was bad and wouldn't hesitate to be critical of him for it.

My conclusion is that BBT is likely town just from Flubbernugget's treatment of him.

For Lying Cat

:

Other than getting righteously indignant over sthar's use of the term "gaslighting", there isn't any interaction between Flubbernugget and Lying Cat until post 729 when Flubbernugget emphatically declares he won't participate in the Lying Cat wagon. This could be for two reasons: (1) that Lying Cat is Flubbernugget's scumbuddy and he was trying to kill any momentum the wagon had or (2) Flubbernugget was bracing for a Lying Cat town flip and wanted to be a defender in order to improve public image.

Since mentions of Lying Cat are scarce in Flubbernugget's ISO, I can't really rule out either possibility based on Flubbernugget's ISO alone.

Lying Cat's vote is what I would consider to be the crucial vote in getting Flubbernugget lynched, though. Had sthar not placed that vote, it's doubtful Flubbernugget's wagon would have picked up the necessary momentum to secure a lynch. From this, I'm cautiously concluding that Lying Cat is likely town.

-------------

I know I haven't done swift or Guilty Gunsmith, but Antihero and I are on the same page that both of those players are very likely to be town. I might do these two just for fun, but off the top of my head I think the exchange between swift and Flubber was too heated to be scum against scum and I just flat out don't think Guilty Gunsmith, as scum, would've voted Flubber at the end of the day yesterday like they did.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Of course you would show up right when I have to go.

I actually dont see how you are seeing things working.

Flubber would not push a chosen heavly because it would connect limitless lines to him.

Or that is how I see it would work.

I doubt it was one and I am not sure about 2 for josh.

about me I have no idea really. I dont find it weird If I was chosen. I find it actually possible. What do you think?

You can already see what I think. I just talked about.

also flubber avoided talking about me to avoid giving hints that I am chosen maybe?

Or he wanted to avoid giving hints that you're his partner. This doesn't help me.

Do you have anything to say about yourself? I'm

still

wondering why you think BBT and AP are scum and you seem to want to absolutely refuse to give me anything to work with. Why? Just spit it out already.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I see AngryPidgeon, EspeciallyTheLies, and Jingle with green dots next to their names in sitechat. I really hope to get some input from you all because, from the current state where BBT is at L-1, I feel like I'm on a different page than everyone else (including Antihero) and I'm wondering where I'm going wrong.

Thanks in advance.

-TTH

[Heartless]

That's all. I need to go back to work now. The only reason I'm online is to make sure I don't fall behind here and elsewhere, but I don't have the time to type out long posts like this without also falling behind on my quota. ILY but I'm sorry, please don't rush me into a post that could be made tomorrow.

Oh, I'm really sorry. I feel really bad now, I didn't want you to neglect anything. I just really want to get to place where I can feel good about what's going on, that's all.

BBT is at L-1

And... how long has he been at L-1 without a hammer....

Sorry but I'm not quite following you here, ETL. How does time spent at L-1 effect likelihood of him being scum?

Quickly though, I feel that you have a very healthy dose of confbias going on. Great process, and I like what you're doing, but you're not being as objective as you should be and you're ignoring clear signals and mafia theory that should be fairly straight-forward, such as the fact that BBT spend all of yesterday resisting Flubber's wagon while

never giving an actual read on the slot

and then suddenly hammering out of nowhere.

1) Why would a townie flatly refuse a wagon without real reason and yet not be able to produce a concrete read on the person??
2) Why would the same townie then discard all of that huff and puff only to hammer the wagon? It's not like there weren't any other options that people were considering.

What if BBT just really thought Flubber was town, didn't think the read all the way through, and then pride prevented him from ever re-evaluating that idea? That's the feeling I got from my questioning of him yesterday.

I'm hearing from you and Anti that BBT is defending scum and I'm hearing from AP and Lying Cat that he's being set up...

Anti, please tell me you can talk tonight.

-TTH

[Heartless]

somewhere, in whatever afterlife, arthur conan doyle is smiling

[Heartless]

alright

so

i will say that your theory all rests on one very important assumption: flubber was playing at optimal scumplay.

you neglect the possibility that flubber just froze up and didn't know how to react to a wagon on a scumbuddy and was just stalling.

[Heartless]

k whatever. go ahead and vote whoever i dont care.

just get this over with. this game is stalling and no one is relenting so i will relent and then be all "i told you so" when this is over.

etl

i sense a little annoyance. it's ok. i understand.

but think about it this way. tth asked you your opinion because she actually cares about what you think because she respects you. if she didn't give a flying fuck what you thought, she wouldn't have said anything to you.

ALSO

I'm hearing from you and Anti that BBT is defending scum and I'm hearing from AP and Lying Cat that he's being set up...

yeah, i'm shocked about

how little we're hearing from zzzx and bbt themselves

. like, they both seem pretty fucking oblivious right now.

hey ZZZX, wake up, will you please? TTH is actually trying to engage you and all you want to talk about is some shit about her analysis on flubber whilst avoiding anything she's asking about ... you know...

your

reads. she's asking you all these things about why you're scumreading ap and bbt and whoever else and you have

nothing to say about that?

jeez...

and hey BBT. we're talking right now about WHAT THE HELL WENT WRONG WITH FLUBBER YESTERDAY. you've got some explaining to do.

it seems like everyone outside of [us, GG, lying cat] are just sitting here silently shuffling around votes.

quit it. COME TALK TO US.

[Heartless]

conjunction

junction

what's your dysfunction?

[Heartless]

LYING CAT

lyyyyyyinnnnnnnnngggggg cat lying cat lying cat

why can can i knot feel good about you?

tth can't feel goo abuot you either

should i vote you?

[Heartless]

TTH!

i'm watching this really piece of shit movie and i drank too much crapp

i'm so bored and lonely

PLEASE CALL ME BACK

[Heartless]

I decided to take a mini-hiatus from this game on Sunday and Monday and come back to it with fresh eyes. I am very much questioning my Guilty Gunsmith read right now.

I'm thinking back to 2 things: (1) the incident between ETL and Antihero on Day 1 when Anti pressured her to give her read on Flubbernugget and the ensuing argument and (2) AngryPidgeon's latest lashing out at Antihero for reasons that aren't very well-defined. Well, and (3) how badly I misjudged ETL in the newbie game we just finished. To be fair, that was a falling down on my part.

AngryPidgeon in particular is the head that's giving me the most angst right now. Antihero tells me waffling is AP's thing, but I think I would be a lot more accepting of it if his changes of heart were a lot more transparent. His flipout on Antihero is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Ignoring everything Anti had to say about the case on BBT, AP jumped straight at Anti's throat even though it's almost identical to the case his hydra partner ETL is pushing

and

AP absolutely insisted ZZZX was scum up to that point.

I have to go now, but I'll be putting Guilty Gunsmith's activity under the microscope when I get back in about an hour and a half. I feel like Anti and I are dropping the ball on that read and we're letting ourselves get complacent.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Well, I think it's unreasonable paranoia.

Spoiler:

This fucking game.

BBT - what the fuck. Why are you making association reads before a flip? Don't do that.

Second - Flubber is absolutely scum. I don't care what you think - you're wrong. Take it from us. Take it from Heartless. Take it from LC. These are all people with experience who

enjoy scumhunting

.

Heartless

I just read BBT's ISO and... shitty but not a liar. I could have sworn he called them town. Maybe it's a scum waffle but I don't think so. The more I think about it, the more I think it's someone

trying

to scumhunt, but using the tools incorrectly.

VOTE: Flubber

Lying Boys

I put a lot of time and heart into my post to you. The least you can do is fucking acknowledge it.

ETL

I have a very difficult time seeing that coming from Flubbernugget's scumbuddy. If you were scum, it seems like the much better alternative would be to stick to your guns about Lying Cat (and I know you and AP would play scum optimally, so there you go Anti).

-TTH

[Heartless]

lazy slob...

[Heartless]

well i'm back to the mental point i was at the beginning of day 1. i'm kind of just bouncing along.

i really don't have a rational response to TTH's arguments for ZZZX other than "lolmeta" and "gut" which she doesn't really buy.

[Heartless]

6 hours and no posts....

only difference is that i'm now sicker than a dog

[Heartless]

alright, sthar

ball's in your court. TTH spelled everything out re: josh.

what's your verdict on ZZZX by the way?

[Heartless]

I don't think Flubber was bussing. I think he was distancing. The thing is, Flubber wasn't actively trying to get josh lynched. Yesterday you guys called him out for not ever actually explaining his josh read. He just kept... saying that he'd be willing to lynch josh, without ever actually trying to convince anyone to do that. Even when the josh wagon was at it's highest point, flubber just ignored it.

Contrast flubber's behavior wrt the not-notscience slot. And then josh came into today going after low-hanging BBT and scum reading me for... not scumreading that slot?

It looks like textbook distancing to me. He kept his vote off josh because he didn't actually want him lynched; distancing serves the hat trick purposes of countering associatives in case of a flip, opening the door for potential bussing, and giving the partner a plausible reason for being alive late game.

I would agree with this if the "chosen townie" mechanic were not at play.

Idk re: Z. He's usually much more engaged as town,

but I think he'd be pushing for chosen-lynches as scum

. I find josh much more interesting.

How do you know that's not what he's doing right now?

-TTH

[Heartless]

I am pretty damn sure the last scum is in Josh/BBT

but Josh's passive play here is nothing like the town games we had (f.e When we played Marvel Mafia Large)

Yet like one of the scum games we played together

so I find passiveness a scum tell for josh.

What does any of this mean? What "passiveness" are you talking about? Can you give some examples?

-TTH

[Heartless]

It looks like textbook distancing to me. He kept his vote off josh because he didn't actually want him lynched; distancing serves the hat trick purposes of countering associatives in case of a flip, opening the door for potential bussing, and giving the partner a plausible reason for being alive late game.

But you are correct that what I'm seeing as distancing might be a really bad attempt to backseat drive a wagon. AP, Anti, ETL, HI, what are your thoughts on the matter?

yeah, i don't know if flubber exactly fits the newbscum "bus like a fucking psychopath" mold, especially given the mechanic (like TTH said).
his other real push was on swifty. i'm still townreading the swifty slot and interactions look similar.

[Heartless]

I don't mind getting hammered.

dude...

i know it, me too

[Heartless]

Heartless, or ZZZX can you please hammer BBT, I know plurality lynching and all, but can we speed the game along?
Lying Cat already said that they aren't going to be any help, or else I'd invite either of them to hammer too.

Not so fast.

There's one thing making me question my read on you and that's the TSO nightkill.

While it's true that TSO was calling BBT scum at the end of the day yesterday, BBT had other notable critics including Antihero and Guilty Gunsmith, who explicitly said that BBT was likely scum if Flubbernugget flipped scum. It seems like either us or GG would be far more logical nightkill choices if BBT were scum, especially given that the linchpin of Anti and ETL's arguments for BBT being scum

was Flubbernugget's scumflip itself.

Other than Flubbernugget and TSO, I don't recall anyone else making serious efforts to push Josh as Day 1 was ending. I think Josh stood more to gain from the TSO kill.

[Heartless]

It feels like everyone's kind of tired and checked out at this point.

I don't know if I believe in this lynch, but I believe in Antihero.

I intend to hammer.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Antihero.

You. Magnificent. Bastard.

[Heartless]

YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS

/slaps with a fish