Mini 1602: Game Over

[Elias_the_thief]

Butts.

VOTE: Malakittens

[Elias_the_thief]

Butts.

VOTE: Flames

[Elias_the_thief]

Whoa, just noticed the Streetlight in AGar's tagline. Come on guys let's all sheep AGar, he knows what's up.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm interested in why. I mean, I agree it's awkward, but it just came off as a weak attempt at lightheartedness to me.

What makes it a "weak attempt"? Are you implying that the post was insincere?

[Elias_the_thief]

@tman: post 37 is awkward. Lots of unwarranted ellipses, throw in a "so confused" at the end, and that's more than enough for a vote from me on page two. If desired I can explain in more depth why those are enough to warrant a vote from me on page two.

I'm interested in the more in-depth explanation. That post seems to check out as far as I can tell.

[Elias_the_thief]

Okay, so, this is absolutely,

definitely

scum!Tammy. Too forced, not at all like her town play.

VOTE: Tammy

Do you have a completed game that you could show for reference? Hard to believe a meta read without some sort of evidence.

[Elias_the_thief]

Is seriously no one picking up on the fact a majority of my posts today was pure troll, joking?

I mean, yeah I picked up on that. I also picked up that the majority of your posts add nothing worthwhile to the discussion. Pretty anti-town if you ask me.

I also feel that something smells funny about Rack's vote, claim of meta, and immediate retraction when under pressure.

VOTE: Rack

What else did you glean from your vote? Surely not just the notion of implosion-town.

[Elias_the_thief]

That's L-2. You seemed a little unsure of who you wanted to vote. Was the proximity to lynch a factor in your decision or no?

If I remembered the password to my alt I would be playing as them. Does that count?

[Elias_the_thief]

Huh. I mean its Day 1, page 5. I've asked questions when I need answers and voted when I felt something was scummy. Not sure what you want me to do to be more readable. Feel free to check out some of my completed games if you want to meta me I guess.

[Elias_the_thief]

Speaking of questions, this one was directed at

Rack

and remains unanswered.

What else did you glean from your vote? Surely not just the notion of implosion-town.

[Elias_the_thief]

Hey rack. Answer the question. Please and thank you with a cherry on top.

[Elias_the_thief]

Speaking of questions, this one was directed at

Rack

and remains unanswered.

What else did you glean from your vote? Surely not just the notion of implosion-town.

I haven't seen this answered. He claimed his maneuver was successful, (that it worked really well) but only announced that he feels implosion is town based on the test. I want to know what else he learned that made it so successful.

[Elias_the_thief]

Rack, what is your aversion to answering my question? I'm beginning to think its personal =(

[Elias_the_thief]

Okay. I have to admit, I've been kind of coasting for a few days now. That's on me. But I've reread everything and a lot occurs to me. Get ready for some readable shiz.

Probably Scum: Phok, Rack, Implosion.
Probably Town: Tman, AGar.
Everyone Else: Not a strong enough vibe to mention.

Phok

based on his misunderstanding of the not a joke thing. I get the possibility that he thought it was a serious vote, sure. But what bothers me is the insistence on leaving the vote. If the basis of your suspicion is her trying to brush off a vote, and the vote was considered non-serious by both partners, what is left in her post that is scummy?

Rack

As previously noted, I don't like the meta argument, followed by the "just kidding, her meta is the opposite!" thing. If it was a reaction test, it was a damn poorly designed one. It had already been established that implosion had played with Tammy before. So. Yeah.
Further, he claims the test to have worked well. But all he stated was that he learned Implosion was town...and not why. He has repeatedly refused to answer me about it, or even acknowledge the question, despite multiple attempts.

Implosion

is subtler I think. I have to admit a lot of my suspicion is based off of fishy behavior with Rack. I dont want to go into too much detail right now, but look at all dat fencesitting in post 115. Look at their ISO, and I'm sure you'll notice a bunch of stuff smells fishy.
Well, aside from associative tells there's not much...don't really like 36. For reasons of ambiguity, and not answering Tman's question on it.

I'm not really about my town tells. At this point its as simple as matching a lot of my views on in-game events, and seeming both reasonable and logical in their interactions.

[Elias_the_thief]

Tammy, what is your opinion on Rack and his wagon?

Malakittens, you have expressed interested in lynching Rack. Do you still feel that way? How do you feel about the Rack wagon?

[Elias_the_thief]

Tammy, what is your opinion on Rack and his wagon?

Malakittens, you have expressed interested in lynching Rack. Do you still feel that way? How do you feel about the Rack wagon?

I'll pass. To all of these questions besides the last. I don't like it. Rather not vote it.

Anything in particular causing these town vibes from Rack, or just gut?

Play nice and I'll sheep you

[Elias_the_thief]

Gut and ~reasons~.

I'm real curious what "~" means in this context.

Well, since I said I would, VOTE: Aneminem

[Elias_the_thief]

Not really. But its true that he's posting elsewhere and lurking here, so some pressure wouldn't hurt. My scum reads remain the same.

[Elias_the_thief]

Great, I'm sheeping some page-topping scum. Just my luck.

[Elias_the_thief]

For two reasons. First, I want to see more posts from you so its not a bad target for my vote. Second, I wanted a straight answer from Mala and sheeping her was a convenient bargaining chip.

[Elias_the_thief]

If my count is correct, that puts Rack at L-1 again? I'm definitely leaning towards him being scum, but, I'm not sure I'm leaning so heavily in that direction to put the hammer on him.

This feels sketch. Like scum trying to feel out the reaction to his hammer, with some fencesitting on the side.

[Elias_the_thief]

Not sure how to respond to "this is awkward" and general disbelief. Care to be more specific?

[Elias_the_thief]

@Aneninen:

I have a couple of questions/requests...

1. Can you go into more detail about why Flames is scum? For instance, what makes 66 and 92 "weak", and how does weak correspond to scummy for you?

2. I feel like you're giving implosion a bit of a free pass. Could you give some examples of his mostly town posts, rather than just stating he's got a lot of them?

3. Why does seeing nothing scummy in Phok's posts make him a town read and not unsorted? It seems odd to me that you would put a player in the town column when you have no town tells to list.

[Elias_the_thief]

UNVOTE: Got what I needed from my anen vote (more activity from anen).

Shadow

: What do you mean by

I don't want Rack at L-1 this quickly, especially if we're wrong and

have no scum targeted or on the wagon yet.

Tammy

Why do you associate refusal to provide evidence with town play?

Implosion

What do you mean by "vote labels" in 208? And why do you claim that I fos rack when I was simply adding more reasoning to an existing vote (which already had decent reasoning)? What specifically is bad about my attack on Rack?

Getting bad vibes from

Riabi

still. I find it unlikely that you have 0 strong reads this late in the day unless you're just not trying...

Getting mostly good vibes from

Anen

, but the reasoning for finding me scummy is lacking. How is the fact that you think my posting insincere possibly backed up by my use of the word? That's like saying "I think X is scummy, and look! they even called another player scummy! GG scumzorz!!!" I also wanna know what specifically is insufficient about 190.

Chaos

Really don't like the way you line up lynches in 248...why do you assume that Rack will still be the best lynch tomorrow if we don't lynch him today? Also the use of the phrase "take down" bothers me. But not sure if that's really a legit tell.

---

I can get behind the Flames wagon...I don't like decision to speak for Rack in 119, in a defensive sort of way, then in his very next post claim to have a complete turn around on him. Especially considering he mirrors my reasons for thinking Rack is scum...like, exactly mirrors them. In the post DIRECTLY after mine.

VOTE: Flames
That's L-2.

[Elias_the_thief]

Also, going to be V/LA for the next couple days, as I will be moving back to school. Should still be able to post.

[Elias_the_thief]

for sleepykrew:

V/LA for the 23rd and 24th

.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias: remember, I talked about feelings:

"Even using the word insincere in 55 confirms my

feelings

."

As for 190, this was insufficient:

"Second, I wanted a straight answer from Mala and sheeping her was a convenient bargaining chip."

I know you're V/LA now but if you read this: have you gotten the answers you searched for? If so, can you link them?

The short answer is yes. I wanted to know whether she had something hard to present for the turnaround or not. The answer was no ("gut and ~reasons~"). I think the choice to offer my sheeping makes more sense if you look at our ISO's...she's been very trolly, and it seemed like an easy way to get a sincere answer. And you WERE lurking pretty hard.

I still don't understand the first point. Thinking a player is 'adjective' because they used 'adjective' still makes no sense to me, even in the realm of feelings. If I had worded it differently (ex. "Do you not think the post was sincere?") would it have negated your feelings?

[Elias_the_thief]

Already answered that.

Because of the speed of the wagon. It's hard to explain, but the speed feels like the wagon could potentially be scum driven.

But if you feel that the speed of the wagon is being scum driven why are you so against posting a more up to date reads list? I know you mentioned that it's because you're scum hunting but when you're vague on your reasoning and do not try to help point who you think is scum how are we supposed to follow your thought process?

because I'm not ready to do so yet. I mean my first one was 6 or so pages ago and a few things have changed, but not enough to warrant a new list.

I'm always vague on my reasoning in early days because i rely on gut more than anything else Day 1 and sometimes early Day 2 depending on the flip

.

I don't get why I'm getting singled out when I was the first one to do a major readslist and I got some players to follow.

The frustration at being "singled out" seems like a bit of an overreaction. I don't feel that you've been singled out more than anyone else. I also feel like you have not been vague in your reasoning across the board, but only when its been convenient to you. Could you link me to a game of you playing town where you survived at least 2-3 days? The other one you posted is half a hydra so not all that much use to me.

[Elias_the_thief]

Reading through the HP game, the tone of posts from both Agar and Mala feel different than here. This strengthens my Agar town read and is starting to lean my Mala read towards the scum side of things.

[quote="In post 271, Tammy"
To whomever asked - I associate Unhelpfulness with town because people don't do themselves any favors that way. It tends to make people want to lynch them and a good number of scum tend to avoid silly confrontations like that. However it's not as strong because it was a reaction test.[/quote]
This seems to be a complete null tell...how are town doing themselves any favors by making people want to lynch them? I mean self-preservation is not quite as strong a motivator on the town side as the scum side, but neither is trying to get themselves lynched. In other words this feels like a whole lotta WIFOM.

[Elias_the_thief]

UNVOTE:
Shadow, how is this situation at all different than the wagon on Rack?

[Elias_the_thief]

UNVOTE:
Shadow, how is this situation at all different than the wagon on Rack?

Mainly, post count. The wagon on Rack started day 1 with an RVS vote, and grew in just a few days. In that timeframe, and the time since the Flame wagon started, everyone has been posting, and there's been more content to scrutinize.
What does concern me about the new wagon is the fact that pretty much all the votes (including mine) are from people that just hopped from one wagon to the other.

Okay. I'll buy that. What conclusions would you draw from a scum flip? From a town flip?

[Elias_the_thief]

Last post before V/LA...

Tammy: I didn't respond because you said you didn't want to discuss theory. Didn't think the point was particularly important. WIFOM refers to "Wine in front of me" from Princess Bride fame. It basically means that something becomes a null tell due to layers of people trying to out think eachother. Check the wiki for more.

Anen: I unvoted because I wanted an answer from Shadow about why his vote was different. Also because I'm about to be outtie for two days.


Ugh Anen, why you gotta be in both my games, you're making me get em all mixed up >.<

[Elias_the_thief]

Officially settled into school. Got a few classes today but will catch up and post once they're over.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm sorry I haven't reread and posted yet. It will be coming tomorrow.

[Elias_the_thief]

Wait. So why are we all voting Neil? I'm not sure I'm about to condemn them just because they have a point system and are posting large posts. Sure its a viable scum tactic, but its also protown to give us information for flames slot when there was not much of use (in terms of associative tells, I mean). To be honest I'd take a Rack lynch or Phok lynch over the Flames lynch.

[Elias_the_thief]

In fact.

vote: Rack

[Elias_the_thief]

This is disappointing. I don't buy the claim either. Which makes it unfortunate that I've been the only one defending the slot this whole time.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias

- Please explain how this was defending the slot?

I can get behind the Flames wagon...I don't like decision to speak for Rack in 119, in a defensive sort of way, then in his very next post claim to have a complete turn around on him. Especially considering he mirrors my reasons for thinking Rack is scum...like, exactly mirrors them. In the post DIRECTLY after mine.

VOTE: Flames
That's L-2.

That's almost 200 posts ago, when the slot was flames. I said I was down for his wagon, not his lynch. I've been against his lynch since Neil took over.

[Elias_the_thief]

This is disappointing. I don't buy the claim either. Which makes it unfortunate that I've been the only one defending the slot this whole time.

So, is the claim the only reason you fos him is the claim?

The only thing that Neil has done. There were a few posts that smelled fishy from Flames, but nothing lynch worthy.