Open 569 ~ Hope + 1 ~ Game Over!

[Varsoon]

WOLOIOLIO

Present.

[Varsoon]

Ah.
I have been eaten.
This was not my goal, not my goal at all.

But I will continue to operate -from within you-.

[Varsoon]

You guys have no idea how jelly I am of that pieguy + GIF hydra.
;_;

[Varsoon]

/first

Skimming the game, scumslip, give it rope, etc.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Team 9

I don't do RVS.
But this is no longer RVS.
This is war.

[Varsoon]

Wait, Great Justice is in this game, too?

[Varsoon]

(I'm making that my next Hydra name. Dibs.)

[Varsoon]

OH NO YOU DONT

[Varsoon]

Now that this is taken care of..

Spoiler:

Inb4 I spelled Justice or Great wrong.
inb4 everyone makes a 'GreatJustice' or 'Great! Just Us!" alt
inb4 we all join a game with these alts and hydras just to completely antagonize and humor a mod

It should be a sin to dream this big.

[Varsoon]

I came back to the site hoping to roll a scumgame with this one, but I'm town here.
It's probably karma.

[Varsoon]

There's no Dayvig in the setup, just goons, docs, and a cop.

You fired an imaginary cannon.
I fired my real one.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon's probably a godfather AGAIN

I'd find a way to do it in an open with no Godfathers, too.
Wait, shit, did Jakuzure already spoil that this game is bastard?

[Varsoon]

I can taste your bitterness from all the way over here, in Ohio.

[Varsoon]

It was cute.
It made me jealous.
Like I am of the Team 9 hydra.
;_;
I should have never taken a break.

[Varsoon]

GIF and Pieguy will forever be farther than arms reach from me. I respect and adore them so much, but to them I am just scummy flaker shitlord Varsoon.

[Varsoon]

Were you with me when we made the longest D1's in the history of the site?
Because, yeah, I like typing.

[Varsoon]

Dat Mason QT.
God, I almost forgot.

[Varsoon]

I wouldn't mind if you'd be my best top ever--
Ahem, anyway, what was I saying?
Oh.
Are you scum?

[Varsoon]

god fuckingn damnit varsoon

I can't stop laughing

Answer the quessssstion~

Maybe we can post enough to get the thread to desynch?
Or crash the servers.
Or crash into the hearts of our readers.
Or get our readers to crash.
Into the servers.
Of our heart.

[Varsoon]

I can't answer it honestly or you'll lynch me

Answer it honestly or I'll lynch you.

VOTE: Notscience

[Varsoon]

You may clean houses, but I clean toilets. I can see you're full of shit from a mile away.

[Varsoon]

I KNEW YOU WERE TROUBLE WHEN YOU WALKED IN

YOU KEEP DODGING MY QUESTIONS
LIKE SOME SORT OF SLIPPERY PERSON

[Varsoon]

It was for the sake of a joke.
What clears Dave?

[Varsoon]

If you underestimate a player, you give them leeway to destroy you.

[Varsoon]

Confidence is not towniness.

[Varsoon]

Notscience wagon is hot.
I'm not getting any answer to my question and notsci is bouncing around into conversations without dedicating heavily to them.
Then again, that's fairly null. Still, it's a good excuse to park a vote and squeeze a guy.

[Varsoon]

I already declared RVS over. Everything is serious now, silly.
Besides, I think running a wagon up to L-3 is an okay way to start a day.

All over the place. Guess it's just in my head ;_;

[Varsoon]

<3 Ice guy not so cold

[Varsoon]

Naked-getting ahoy.

Spoiler:

[Varsoon]

On the internet.

[Varsoon]

Spoiler:

[Varsoon]

Nope nope nope

[Varsoon]

It's a distancing tactic.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon is a charming guy.

Melt my heart,
Very melon~

But really, some people on this site can't stand me. It's a tragic life.

Schrodinger's Titus, as an idea, makes me giggle like a schoolgirl.


I've discovered that if I can wait a day or two, Titus sorts itself out.

[Varsoon]

I mean, I was serious.

[Varsoon]

My vote. I think.
Well, I'm serious now.

[Varsoon]

Dammit Varsoon!

[Varsoon]

Hehehe
Adventure time face.
:T

[Varsoon]

i haven't even read yet, i just flipped through the pages and saw you boasting your dick size

will read up later
busing watching arrested development (y)

Woah, woah, woah
I can find NS' dick size in this thread?


Also, yeah, does seem like some awkward lurkin there.
VOTE: Bins

[Varsoon]

Because 2hu

[Varsoon]

<3
I want in that.
It'll be like the Mara Fan Club, but effective.

[Varsoon]

Wait, wasn't your gut wrong on me in--

[Varsoon]

Oh. How do I know this isn't one of scum-Gif's tricks to buddy me like Scum gif always does?

[Varsoon]

Yeah

he was in your scum qt

...

[Varsoon]

It's a Leap of Fate I'll have to take.
For the slam dunks.

[Varsoon]

Hey, new guy.
Neeeew guy.
Want to join us on this Bin wagon?

[Varsoon]

MORE LIKE SHITLER
OOOOOOO


Don't be so weak, Bins.

[Varsoon]

<<
My votes have been serious.
Don't undermine the game so far.
People who insist we're still in RVS sound delusional.

[Varsoon]

Gotta stick to my guns.
We'll know someone's alignment tomorrow, hands down.
Hope +1

[Varsoon]

Well, yeah, but if we get a guilty then we can (hopefully) run a macho doctor campaign on the cop.

[Varsoon]

GUESS WHO HAS RETURNED FROM HIS SLUMBER?

Spoiler:

Imagine my surprise--coming back to a thread and it had 20 new pages. Amazing.
But, on the real, here's some TRUTH:

• ALL YOU SILLY FOLK SHOULD RELAX, WE'RE HERE TO HAVE A GOOD TIME
  TN AND SAKURA LOOKS LIKE TOWN VERSUS TOWN WALLING TO ME

  Spoiler:

  (I have experience with it, firsthand, especially with Pieguy. It isn't bringing us anywhere and is just kicking up noise for scum to hide in.)

  
  WHY DID EVERYONE DITCH THE BINS WAGON? BINS ONLY HAD TO CHILL OUT AND YOU ALL FLED FROM IT. SCALLYWAGS!
  READS LISTS. EVERYONE. NOW. EXPLAIN EACH READ WITH AT LEAST ONE SENTENCE.

  Spoiler:

  tn5421 - Town. Walling with Sakura, seems to have lost sight of pretty much erry'thing else. Seems genuinely frustrated.
  SXTLHGaiden - Null-scum. Seems like he's lurking it out, or at least letting louder players duke it while chilling. Was glad someone noticed him, though. I'm iffy, but it feels scum.
  startfromtheheart - Null. Not much coming from this slot. I'd lean it town, but part of me goes 'Varsoon! Stop! Collaborate! And listen!'
  Bitmap - Null-scum. Bitmap's input booooothers me. Feels like Gaiden but a bit more involved and trying not to step on anyone's toes.
  Varsoon - Town.
  Sakura Hana -Town. Is defiantly town, caught in a quagmire.
  Titus - Town. Typical Town Titus. Calm, collected, even when getting wagon'd.
  The Bulge - Null - Literally who?
  Team 9 - Town. Leap of Fate.
  davesaz - Null. Literally who?
  Flubbernugget - Null-Town. Has stuck on the Bins wagon despite being capable of sending other ones over the edge. The late jump onto Bins bothered me at first, esp. in tandem with the NS vote.
  notscience - Null-Scum. Didn't like earlier NS play at all, put it in the scum bucket. Is still arms-length and uninvolved, but doesn't seem spiteful. That hop to the TN wagon looks hella suspect to me.
  Bins - Scum. Chillin like a Villain. It always bothers me when my scum reads call me town, too. It's like an apology bargain--I'll townread you, pls off my wagon.

  
  I WILL LISTEN TO EMINEM WITH YOU, TITUS.
  I AM ALSO A MAN, BUT MY HEART ALSO GOES DOKI~DOKI~
  SERIOUSLY, THERE IS A CITY THAT THIS DARKNESS CAN NOT HIDE,
  THERE ARE THE EMBERS OF A FIRE THAT'S GONE OUT
  BUT I CAN STILL FEEL THE HEAT ON MY SKIN
  THIS MESS WE'RE IN, WELL YOU AND I,
  MAYBE YOU AND I,
  WE CAN STILL MAKE IT RIGHT.
  MAYBE WE CAN BRING BACK THE LIGHT!
  JOIN ME, IN THE VARSOON COALITION. WE CAN BRING DOWN THE SCUM. SEPARATE, WE ARE WEAK. TOGETHER, WE ARE A BLOC STRONGER THAN ANY SCUM REGIME.
  

The way we'll form this town bloc is via a WotC voting system:
Everyone has one vote for who goes into the Bloc.
You can not vote for yourself.
You can also cast a vote against exactly one player.
Votes for a player count as 2 points.
Votes against a player count as 1 point.
Maybe there should be a point cutoff to get in?
Help me out here, guys.

Here's how we'll format this:

TOWN BLOC ADD: Team 9

TOWN BLOC REJECT: Bins

CURRENT BLOC STANDINGS:
Team 9: 2point
Bins : -1point

I think this could work.

[Varsoon]

WELL I HAVE A LITTLE COMPUTER AND STUFF
IT'S LIKE JAKE SUIT
DO YOU WATCH ADVENTURE TIME?
ALSO, COOL, SOMEONE WENT WITH MY BLOC IDEA.
I HOPE IT WORKS.
LOT OF THE TIME, PEOPLE DONT LIKE COOL IDEAS.

[Varsoon]

Doesn't matter, it's still a shift that plays on the sensibilities and drive of the game. If I'm scum and I know I can get support for it, I'll swap to a preferred wagon over a dying one in a heartbeat.

[Varsoon]

The way I see it, Notsci may or may not be scum, but Bins is regardless of Notsci's alignment.
A scum-notsci bus that starts early and drops off at L-2? I'd buy it. Makes sense from a distancing perspective.

If less than half the playerbase refuses to agree to the Bloc, then I agree that it should not be a thing.

[Varsoon]

When did I call you town, Varsoon?

Maybe I imagined it and you implied it. ;_;

Varsoon, you said Titus looks like town Titus because she's calm even though she's being scumread. What is scum Titus like?

Scum Titus feels a lot more calculating, parsed out (lots of logical explanation for going with popular wagons), and never busses. The Titus here has been flopping votes around, doesn't seem to have direction, and is going with unpopular wagons.

Then again, meta experience is arbitrary.


<3 that someone actually made a reads list for me.

I don't know what to say.
UNVOTE: Bins isn't going anywhere.

I'm crossing my arms on this one.
We won't have a Bloc, it seems.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon I don't ever think you've played with scum me.

In See Minus Minys Varsoon and I were scum and won flawlessly.

What is it, Titus?
Have I played with scum you or not?


VOTE: Bins
Looking back, I still don't like it.

[Varsoon]

Also, my play in C9++ was intended to kick up as much dirt and stay as off topic and confuse as many people as possible. I went for a hard bus strat and a few other not-so-great strategies. None of them really worked.

[Varsoon]

Not going anywhere was more of a 'this wagon is stalled'.

Got back on it because I still believe in it, especially after re-reading.

[Varsoon]

Gaiden, elaborate on the vote?

[Varsoon]

I'm having trouble articulating, or really digging in against Bins. Like, it feels as though any pressure I have is just sucked away into a void of apathy and lurking.
T_T

I dunno, Gaiden. Seems legit.
Sakura, is Gaiden town?

[Varsoon]

Sakura, is Gaiden town?

Yes

If you're a scumteam together, I'll be let down.


I still think you and TN are both town, because I'm having trouble really seeing either of you as scum. Your arguments against each other feel circular and biased.
We ran Bins up to L-2, right?
Why'd that support shift off?

[Varsoon]

What are those reasons?

[Varsoon]

Bye titus. Maybe we can jam some other time.
Hi newguy. Hope you like to jam.

Sorry for my relative absence. College and teaching is demanding!!

VOTE: Startfromtheheart
I get bad vibes from all the posts and votes here. Feels scummier/more under the radar than Bins.

[Varsoon]

Caught up, but I don't really have much to add other than it's 3 AM and I'm tired. ;_;

No lynch might be preferable just so we avoid lynching one of our PRs, tbh.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: NoLynch

Honest.

[Varsoon]

Wait.
VOTE: Notsci

For some reason I thought this was a 6/3 game and not 9/3.

Articulate your vote, homie.

[Varsoon]

I probably should not do critical game thinking at 3 AM

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Notscience

Then die.

[Varsoon]

Vote yourself again and we can get the ball rolling for once.

[Varsoon]

Spoiler:

Wanna chat in spoilers?
Sleeptime, though, 4real

[Varsoon]

Sakura, I'm selfvoting because I just feel like shit and I just decided why not perpetuate it some more and I'm tired and I'm cranky but I can't fucking sleep and I don't fucking know what to do and I've been up since 9 am yesterday

Yeowch.
Eat some pizza.
Everyone loves pizza!

Spoiler:

On the real, I need to review the game and come back with an updated readslist. I'm having a lot of difficulty with enthusiasm and energy, myself.


@Bins: What four people do you think are scummy? Does minimal scumhunting equal scumminess (I know some people 'townhunt' and stuff like that)? Weak defense and filler seems null. I want you to dedicate to your strongest reads tomorrow. You feel floaty to me, for some reason. It's why I've been voting you half the game. I don't know what your agenda is. It's nebulous to me.

[Varsoon]

Team 9,
How synched are your heads?

[Varsoon]

Mind sharing a reads list, then?
It might help us get some damn momentum.

[Varsoon]

Great. Those are my nulls, too.
:l

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Bulge
Yes.

[Varsoon]

also, it doesn't matter if we argue over "lurking" vs. "inactivity". the point is, you were using the fact you were inactive up to this point as a shield to get out of suspicion - which is what we've been saying this whole time.

-Rumia

Handling the pressure particularly poorly.
Good morning, guys. :3

[Varsoon]

Checking in.
Don't like Bulge makin things big.
Don't like the 'HE MIGHT BE A PR' stuff.
Wagon on me is totes cool.
Stickin with my votie.
Come an get it.

[Varsoon]

Honest, if Bulge flips town on a lynch and I make it to the morning, feel free to lynch me for ordinary useless.

[Varsoon]

What do you think of Bert, notty and Bins wrt their latest posts.

This is me
being a cheeky scumfuck
What are you going to do about it

Notty is claimed scum. You should know how I feel about that. Reading it as null-scum despite gut screaming scum, vote it, obliterate, destroy, smashuuu~

Bert's way chill. Feels townbert now that I've had enough dayspace with it. Responds in kind.

Bins still annoys me and I'm conflicted. If it's scum, it's level 2 scum.

[Varsoon]

It means that's he's playing scum on a single level of town WIFOM.
Scum-straight-town, in otherwords.
It's the most unnerving.

[Varsoon]

Votecount?

I'm so disoriented.

[Varsoon]

D:
Dat's not Giffy.

[Varsoon]

I'm siding with Team 9 over Bins in this. I feel like Bins' points are weak and rely on us trusting claims Bins and Bulge are making rather than the hard evidence of play that Team 9 is looking at.
Furthermore, Bins' reason for shifting wagons is nebulous and difficulty to trace logically.

Does anyone other than notty even care about me this game?
I feel like no one cares about what I have to say.

[Varsoon]

Spoiler:

Can we please stop replacing out?

(Sakura's town, though, notty. It's obv.)

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Holding Hands

I'm down.
Fuck the negativity.
We're here because we enjoy mafia and we like playing together.
I love all of you.

[Varsoon]

Wait what?

[Varsoon]

I thought we just got a hammer on bulge.


Why is 22 scum with team 9?

[Varsoon]

So, ika, this is definitely her town play?
I always have trouble reading Titus.

[Varsoon]

Aw. I made it too late for hugs.


Got a lot to do today, but I have been thinking about IKA's stance on using our PRs and how to break the system. Here's my two cents:

Cop claims cop AND claims the target he will cop.
One doctor protects the cop, the other doctor protects the cop's target.
If the cop's target is a doctor, that doctor protects the cop if we can figure out a system to do so without outting the docs.
The issue that arises is doctor confusion (obviously, we can't have doctors both hitting the same guy, right?).
So what we do to solve this is by assigning numbers. There will be DOCTOR 1 and DOCTOR 2.
DOCTOR 1 will be the doctor who's username is alphabetically earlier.
DOCTOR 2 will be the doctor who's username is alphabetically later.
DOC 1 will always protect the cop.
DOC 2 will always protect the cop's target.
If the cop's target is DOC 2, then DOC 2 keeps his stupid mouth shut and protects someone else at random (unless there's some way to do this without outting who the docs are).
In this way, scum is forced to try to kill out of our Doctors and ALWAYS has to burn through AT LEAST 2 kills before the cop can be killed, and that's if they get REALLY LUCKY.

Think this could work?

[Varsoon]

If DOC 1 ever dies, then DOC 2 starts protecting the cop and the cop stops announcing his cop targets.
EZ PZ.

[Varsoon]

You scum, Varsoon? srs question

Srs answer: Town.

If DOC 1 ever dies, then DOC 2 starts protecting the cop and the cop stops announcing his cop targets.
EZ PZ.

If a doctor dies, the cop becomes macho.

Well, shit. Forgot about that. Still, so long as none of our docs die, we've get a few innos to work with.

[Varsoon]

I agree, follow the cop is the road to victory.

[Varsoon]

Well nuts.
I guess we have to just win by lynching scum, then?

[Varsoon]

Why TheSp over Bulge?

[Varsoon]

'cus I'm playing follow the doctor-who-is-way-more-invested-in-this-game-than-me-and-is-a-hydra-of-the-strongest-town-players-I-know.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, but Titus is a hard town read in my book, despite TheSp's play.
Hm.

[Varsoon]

I'm so low on that list, it's painful.
I guess I was always the sort of loser who gets suspected.

I think voting for the cop check is the best. It clears up who we all think is most likely to be scum.
The primary issue I have with it, though, is that:
This outs the cop on D2.
There's no strat to protect the cop N1 outside of blind guessing.

[Varsoon]

So, basically, we need a cop claim now. The issue is that, if Team 9 isn't lying, then Team 9's dead in the water tonight and we're down to a macho cop and a macho doc.

:l

[Varsoon]

If team 9 is lying, then it's a goddamn impressive scum play.

[Varsoon]

Leap of Fate.

[Varsoon]

No the cop doesn't claim.
I'm a designated kill tonight and outing cop now will just give scum a free cop kill N2.

So you soak tonight's kill (probably)
Cop doesn't claim ever,
How do we know who the cop Innos are?

[Varsoon]

Everyone pretends to be cop, claims results every day

Now I'm wondering why I didn't think of that.
Sorry, haven't been in many opens with a cop. Or any, now that I think of it.

I like this strategy.

[Varsoon]

You know, in 512, my goal was to spam the thread and get people as off topic and confused as possible with hopes I'd get a whole slew of apathetic replacements who'd never find my scum team after my eventual lynch.

P-EDIT: I only suggest outting the cop if we had docs to protect him, but it seems like that won't be the case?
Right now, I think the strategy is for us to NOT vote for who the cop investigates, and then every day start we all act like cops and claim our innos/guilties. That way, if the cop ever does die and flip, then we'll have a ref to look at.

[Varsoon]

my pm assures me i am town though...

But we're called civilians this time around.


If I replace out, can I be hard-read as town, too?


Honestly, I don't have much to contribute to this game. I feel weak.
Bulge, I know I've been sheeping T9 for awhile and T9 is a hard town read for me,
but would you be weirded out if I joined your wagon on T9?

VOTE: Team 9

[Varsoon]

I think Bulge's 2655 answers a lot. It's the sort of thing I'd do if I was in his position.

[Varsoon]

Pieguy and GIF are not people who slip.
In fact, GIF is the player who INTRODUCED me to fake-claiming on the site and beat me in my very first game that way.
Every fucking play that pair makes is intentional.

[Varsoon]

Because I thought I'd play it safe and hide behind a player who supported me and who I thought was town. I didn't want to question them.
All the Leap of Fate stuff and the other posturing is just the kind of thing I'd respond to.
Setting me up as the fall guy was all part of the plan, I'd imagine.
Cuckhold Varsoon Plan. Not today. Never again.

[Varsoon]

Hey, Bins:
Hop on.

[Varsoon]

If Team 9 is actually Doc, we would be committing suicide.

That's exactly the power play that makes it so effective as scum.

[Varsoon]

That's what I'm saying. The play was made purposefully. Why would a doctor out himself purposefully?
He wouldn't.
Team 9 is either a gambiting VT or Scum.

[Varsoon]

Crumbs are intentional. This plan was set up in your private QT early on, or even before gamestart.
I will never believe that you slipped and got paranoid. Pie and GIF don't do that.

[Varsoon]

That's not really a crumb. Hold on, hold up, let me get my crumbs out too.

[Varsoon]

Ah.
I have been eaten.
This was not my goal, not my goal at all.

But I will continue to

operate

-from within you-.

See, like a doctor does.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Team 9

If you flip town, I'll do everything I can get to get Bulge, Gaiden, and myself lynched.

[Varsoon]

Fucking hell, can't we just get you cop investigated or something? I don't want to lynch the MAYBE doctor.

And out the cop D2?

[Varsoon]

And place some unfortunate player in this game? Hell no. My slot, my responsibility.

<3
You're sweet,
but not sweet enough to win me over.
Not this time.

[Varsoon]

Because Team 9 is making a scum power play. Sure, he gets lynched down the line, but he also potentially outs all of our PRs.

I'm calling it: Scum kills the cop N1.

[Varsoon]

Hm.
Well, I don't trust T9.
If he doesn't die tonight, I'm not holding back tomorrow.

UNVOTE: T9

SP: As scum, he is, at worst, offering himself as a 1-for-1 trade on the cop outing themselves D2.

[Varsoon]

Come an get me.

[Varsoon]

You're gonna have to back that vote up with some justification. Otherwise, when I flip civ, it'll be really hard for you to wiggle out of it.

[Varsoon]

My bad, I slipped.

[Varsoon]

tn5421 - Scum.
SXTLHGaiden - Town.
startfromtheheart - Town.
22 - Scum.
ika - Town.
Thesp - Town.
The Bulge - Town.
Team 9 - Scum.
davesaz - Scum.
Flubbernugget - Scum.
notscience - Town.
Bins - Town.

At least, where I stand now.
T9 will figure itself out.

[Varsoon]

my scum team is still tn, varsoon, flubber w/ maybe dave as the extra

Yeah, those guys are my scum buddies.

[Varsoon]

Also, lol varsoon's old trust tell

Hey! I claimed all three alignments in this one!
(but for real I am town)

@Varsoon: Or are you going to 'ignore' me now too?

It's a weak read, I just didn't want any nulls.
Your last couple of questions and comments felt very surface level and town-affect. Like, yeah, it's town to complain about the fluff posting, but that complaint is posturing rather than doing something to help.
Stuff like that.

[Varsoon]

My town-read on IKA is largely based on my town-read for Sakura.

Plus, I don't think IKA's acting as scummy as people are painting him to be.

[Varsoon]

my problem with voting varsoon now that i think of it (im voting him now) is that i only see him as a partner to certian people

wow im so wishywashy this game

It is the only wagon we can get right now without T9 yelling at us all or begging to be lynched and then sheeped after a flip

Gawd, don't let T9 control you.
That's exactly how Scumgif plays.

[Varsoon]

I don't think IKA is trying to out PRs.
He's just trying to openly discuss what the best move is to make now that we have a claimed doc.

[Varsoon]

Hey GREYice.
I hope we can have a fun time with this game. :3

[Varsoon]

Aww, Notty.
You're adorable.

[Varsoon]

On the real, GreyICE, what's informing those reads? Don't Metal Sonic me and say you read 113 pages in two minutes flat.

[Varsoon]

I had Titus figured as town because of Titus' typical inquiry-by-the-books and the weird replace out when getting fed up with the game.
Ika (I believe) later explained that the replace was town-oriented and not null.

[Varsoon]

I dunno, I really like TSP's direct questions, general attitude towards the games, and so on. Feels genuine town to me.
What's giving you a scum read there, Grey?

[Varsoon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Titus/Sp have both been major wagons and points of conflict for everyone.
GreyICE is focusing other places, too.

[Varsoon]

Show me.

[Varsoon]

I forgot about the Macho rules.

[Varsoon]

I think our current plan is:
Cop never full-claims unless he's at L-1 or he gets a guilty and any wagon other than the guilty hits L-1 or a wagon on one of his innos hits L-1. (subject to change)
At Daystart, we all claim a cop result in-thread. This way, if our cop dies, we can ISO hip for all his results.
Doctors protect folks.

[Varsoon]

Sounds good. Although, honestly, I don't know if cop should out if there just happens to be a wagon at L-1 on one of his non-guilty non-innos. Like, if the cop has a guilty, but can't get a secure wagon on it, and town goes for someone he doesn't have an inno on, then is it worth the cop out just to trade cop for 1 scum? With our mass-copclaim strategy, it seems like it'd be most effective for the cop to essentially 'cash in' a built up amount of innos and guilties.

It's against town's wincon to not fake results. It's against scum's wincon to not fake results if all of town does. Basically, everyone in the game has motivation to fake a cop result at daystart. We all then blatantly disregard those results and continue with the game as normal so that we can avoid scum scummin' it up.

[Varsoon]

@ Varsoon what was your read on Team 9 when you wrote 2472

Null-town. I think that's the point where I threw up my hands and decided to just read the slot as town for the sake of hoping it would be so because it'd make the game so much easier.

I think our current plan is:
Cop never full-claims unless he's at L-1 or he gets a guilty and any wagon other than the guilty hits L-1 or a wagon on one of his innos hits L-1. (subject to change)
At Daystart, we all claim a cop result in-thread. This way, if our cop dies, we can ISO hip for all his results.
Doctors protect folks.

This plan is pretty badly flawed. Think of it this way. Scum knows whose reads are incorrect. Every player with an inaccurate result is PoE'd from scum's kill-pool. Even after just one day, scum's options for who might be the cop are limited and they have a much higher chance of nailing him.

I guess so. I'm thinking of ways to further randomize it, like having alternating claims of guilty/inno and the true cop can step in the order whenever they want.

[Varsoon]

For instance, the first person to claim can claim either guilty or inno on any player.
So let's say I was first to claim D2:
I call guilty on Team 9.

Whoever claims after me can claim any target, but then HAS TO claim inno on whoever they claim target.

In this way, the real cop can slip in unnoticed and scum have an extra layer of WIFOM to sort through, because there will inevitably be inno and guilties that are correct.

[Varsoon]

How would that out the cop, flubber?

Bulge, I was hard-reading them as town at that point, but decided against it. I'm pretty sure the rhetoric put forth by GiF was meant to manipulate me and set me up.

[Varsoon]

And then we trade a cop at a 1 for 1 town to scum basis.
Which is still a gain for town.

[Varsoon]

No no the alternating thing changes nothing. In fact it makes it worse. We only have 3 scum. If we're forcing every second player to fake claim a guilty, there are going to be more people with incorrect reads and therefore more people for scum to confirm as "not-cop".

Then, at worst, we trade a cop for a scum.

[Varsoon]

Honestly, Thesp's ISO feels like general catch-up malarky, engagement with topics being discussed (setup spec, wagons, etc), and sussing out other player's positions on things.
Maybe he just doesn't want to throw down in analysis.
I don't think that constitutes absolute scum-or-town.

[Varsoon]

As in if our cop gets an inno, but through PoE he's one of the only people who is correct, scum kills him and we have no info

The chances of 4/8 people being wrong on their innos when we should have, at worst, 8 innocent players alive are incredibly slim. Each player who is claiming an Inno has, at worst, a 3/10 chance of being wrong. Sounds big.
The chances of two players being wrong on their innos is 9/100
The chances of three players being wrong on their innos is 27/1000


How do you suggest the cop manages to share info with town without scum being wise to who the cop is?

[Varsoon]

<<
Maybe I did that math wrong.
I haven't done math for school in almost seven years.

[Varsoon]

My conclusion is that despite the posturing, prose, and paperwork, there's no pressure coming from the slot.
I can't really hate that, though.
I can't really call that scum.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, no, pretty sure SP is town.

[Varsoon]

Love the blanket statements, keep 'em coming.
You'll appear busy, at least.

[Varsoon]

Dave, that's pretty weak.
I use spoilers to avoid walling.
Spoilers= tags are there for literally everyone to press.
You know what a good way of hiding content is?
Not fucking posting.

[Varsoon]

The truth is that there really isn't much else to discuss on D1.
When people engage in conversation over something, you're going to respond to it. That's why there's such a high density of setup-related posts in pretty much everyone's ISOs.
It's a topic everyone can weigh in on.
I think that if a winning strat can be employed this early, it should be. Resistance to winning strats feels like doubt/scum holdback. The issue is figuring out what to do.
As of now, with a claimed Doc, we should just shut up about PRs. In a way, that's also what makes me dubious of T9's claim--it shuts up pro-town setup breaking by claiming a role that is immune to counterclaims.

I can accuse anyone of anything. Information in forum mafia is always shared and never on accident. I mean, you gotta type that shit out. Then hit submit.

[Varsoon]

I don't even know.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Thesp

[Varsoon]

I'm sick of fake-claims dominating this shit.

[Varsoon]

No.
I'm sick of CLAIMS dominating play.

[Varsoon]

I shouldn't feel hardlocked out of a hammer because some 'claimed' doc says that shit's gonna happen.
A wagon on a player shouldn't dismiss because of a claim. A wagon shouldn't exist because that player is town. If that player's response when run up is to claim rather than make an appeal to his fellow town, then that player deserves it.

[Varsoon]

Don't let scum-9 trick you with rhetoric that they know is effective on you.
It's a damn GiF tactic.
Think for yourselves.

[Varsoon]

Come an get me.

Spoiler:

[Varsoon]

Team 9, isn't it fucking obvious?
If town-soon hammers a claimed cop before a CC, what could Varsoon's PR be?

[Varsoon]

Think for a damn second, will you?

[Varsoon]

The flip will make you feel differently.

[Varsoon]

from 3094, I mean.

[Varsoon]

Is that why you claimed?

[Varsoon]

GiF doesn't slip.


If TheSP flips towncop, I'm dead.
I don't like claims. I don't want to claim.
I probably won't claim ever again.
Can this be the last claim ever?
Would that be okay?
Because I am Cop.

[Varsoon]

How would I be able to backtrack out of a town cop flip on TheSP?

You give me too much credit.

[Varsoon]

What do we do if TheSP flips town, but not cop?

[Varsoon]

Maybe I should remind myself not everyone plays mafia like a Batman villain.

[Varsoon]

I'm 100% positive that TheSP isn't a cop (so long as this isn't secretly bastard-game).
But I don't know if he's town or scum.
That bothers me.

[Varsoon]

I'd do that as town, too.
As scum, I'd just ride the wave of hate into eternity.

You don't see motivation to fakeclaim cop in an open setup?

[Varsoon]

You're too narrow.
If the real cop knows what's up, he'll investigate the faker at night.
Real cop gets a free counterclaim the next day with a guilty.
With an inno, real cop gets to hide in town while scum scrambles to fuck with fake-cop.
It gives a one-town buffer before real-cop has to step up.
It's a good strat if people don't piss themselves.

[Varsoon]

Maybe one day I'll write an entire argument for why claims are dumb.

[Varsoon]

I'll help you, sure.

[Varsoon]

And hey, that's why I said town, pissing selves, etc.
I still don't believe your doc claim at all.
Guess I'll know after tonight.

[Varsoon]

Woop woop.

[Varsoon]

On the real, docs, don't fuck up.

[Varsoon]

I swear, this fake-claim doctor gambit is really good.
By swearing that you will protect the cop, you ensure the other doctor (doctors in this case) both protect elsewhere.
You get a free cop kill.
And the best thing is you can lie through the double-protection clause.

[Varsoon]

If the other doc ever outs themselves in response, you get a free doc kill too.

[Varsoon]

It even works as a town strat, because then you can basically convince scum that you're protecting a target (like cop) and then we get two protects elsewhere in town.

[Varsoon]

I'm just saying,
Team 9 is not a doctor.
If they are, I'm disappoint.

[Varsoon]

Wait, why the dave wagon?

I see IKA and Bulge as fair scummier. ika's absolute town-defense on Titus coupled with death-tunneling the claimed doc until theSP wagon seemed inevitable. Couple that with the weird mention of SP maybe being a cop earlier makes me think it wouldn't be too weird for a scum team to have an idea for fake-claiming cop, but for ika to bus there.

To be absolutely fair, I was wrong about Team 9 not being a doctor, so I don't really trust my judgment as much as I should.
Kinda fucks me over, too.
Oh well.

[Varsoon]

What if the person I investigated flipped already?

I can go with this, though.
VOTE: Dave

[Varsoon]

I feel really dumb, though.
Because if he didn't die (was scum) then his target would have been me because he claimed he was protecting me so that the docs wouldn't cross protect.
I was just expecting some sort of bizarre kill on the side, like dave or bert or NS, and I wanted some hard validity on Team9's shit, at least to know if it was a gambit or not.
I'm still not convinced they were doctor, but the flip confirms.

[Varsoon]

Please don't rub in that I'm dumb.
It'll make sense if you think about it.
Or not, maybe.

[Varsoon]

I haven't ever really done this before.

[Varsoon]

I really don't want to mislead town. Don't treat me differently or act like my votes/reads are any more important just because of my claim. Sure, you can do that shit after I die, but while I'm still here, lay off of it. It gives scum too much of a smokescreen to hide in and excuses town from having to do actual work that'll pay off once I'm gone.

[Varsoon]

I've pretty much already delivered it.

[Varsoon]

Signing deposition; physical preparation; copies.

[Varsoon]

For going back to the Terra avatar, sure.

[Varsoon]

I'm gonna miss you guys.
I'll be rooting for you from the sidelines.

[Varsoon]

Bulge is town.

[Varsoon]

Think about it for a hot second.

[Varsoon]

Damn it Bert.
I was trying to keep it a secret.
:l


Did you come to that conclusion yesterday or today, actually?

[Varsoon]

It's still wifom-able.
I was just hoping to soak a kill.
That's also why I told ya not to put a shitload of faith in me based on my claim.

I'm high-sketch on everyone who threw shade at me yesterday. Scum didn't kill me, so either:
Scum are dumb, fell for it, and a doctor figured it out and doc'd me (unlikely, because the macho wifom would be too high)
Scum no killed (lol no)
Scum targeted someone other than me who was doc'd. (my guess)
Which means that our doc knows who was targeted and who isn't the cop.
So yeah.
Like I said, I'm super sketch, because I assume it's the scenario where scum figured me out and went elsewhere. So people who threw shade on my gambit were doing so either anti-town wise or as scum.
:l

[Varsoon]

I think you speak for everyone.

[Varsoon]

Probably still worth it.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure we just straight up win if Cop and Doc claim.
Scum's in a position where they can't counterclaim gambit and trade.
This gives us two people that are inno.
Cop hopefully has a guilty, but if Cop has some innos, we win easy.

[Varsoon]

No matter what, we get two days of lynches before LYLO, if my math is right.

[Varsoon]

We have:
SXTLHGaiden,
GreyICE,
Varsoon,
notscience
Bins,
The Bulge,
Flubbernugget,
ika

That's eight players. Seven town, one scum.
Two of the eight can confirm themselves as town now.
If cop has innos, that gives us upwards of 3 more conf-town.
At worst, cop hit guilty on both scum so far and investigated our docs/dead folks.
So Worst Possible Situation, we've got a lynch pool of 6.
Best possible situation is a lynch pool of 3 (4 if doc protect the other night hit a town that cop did not investigate).
Looking at player/lynch pools, we've got an incredibly good chance of winning even with the worst possible mislynch base.

[Varsoon]

Guess it's masturbatory to claim town at this point.

I wouldn't build a fucking wagon until we make sure everyone's posted and no one is going to counter-claim Bins, though.

[Varsoon]

I also probably shouldn't throw shade on the claim-cop, but for real, asking doc to claim first is hella sideways.
I also don't like that I'm pushed just for being one of your scum-reads and not an investigate.
I ALSO don't like the justification for your read being based on reads I gave 3000+ posts ago.
But I guess it doesn't matter what I like, because I helped you (if you are cop) by ensuring you didn't have to CC.
Use your leverage to fuck up the win I literally put on a platter for you.

Scum's in Bins, Notsci, and Gaiden if Bins is lying.
If Bins isn't lying, scum's in Gaiden, Bulge, and Notsci.

[Varsoon]

Grey, do you mean as scum?

[Varsoon]

Because if I was the last scum remaining, and I knew I could speed-lynch a person, and I also knew the actual cop was on V/LA or notoriously absent from the game, I might do it.