FitzOtter I (Game Over)

[Aegor]

Checking in; will post in an hour or two.

[Aegor]

VOTE: ikaVOTE:

[Aegor]

VOTE: ika

[Aegor]

ika, why are you convinced that the Juls/T-Bone and farside/T-Bone interactions were not town v. town?

[Aegor]

VOTE: Hostile Intent

[Aegor]

Also, ika, stop forming reads based on gut and then getting angry when other players have different-feeling guts.

[Aegor]

LOLOLOL

[Aegor]

Aurorus, why is Hostile Intent VI and not scum?

[Aegor]

@mod: two players are voting for Hostile Intent, but he has only 1 vote. Please confirm that the VC is correct.

[Aegor]

VOTE: ika


ABR, why Konowa? His posting seems fine.

[Aegor]

That's me!

[Aegor]

Explain ABR townread?

[Aegor]

Why do you think you will be lynched?

[Aegor]

UNVOTE:

Well that's interesting.

I am an un-loverizer.

provided you're town, that makes juls likely scum....

VOTE: hiplop

Juls' claim is demonstrably true. If someone involved is scum, Juls is town and DGB is scum with a counter.

I see no reason whatsoever to lynch Juls.

DBG; do not use your ability.

[Aegor]

I am saying that I think it is town and it is also true.

[Aegor]

I was not conflating anything. You made that erroneous inference; I never stated that it was town because it is proven.

[Aegor]

1) This is a bastard game
2) Pro-town negative utility roles exist even in non-bastard games.

[Aegor]

I was not conflating anything. You made that erroneous inference; I never stated that it was town because it is proven.

No. You said

Juls' claim is demonstrably true. If someone involved is scum, Juls is town and DGB is scum with a counter.

that may not have been what you meant, but it was what you said.

You are seeing something that is not there. I never said that Juls' claim is provable and therefore it is town. At no point in my ISO can you point to that logical inference, because it does not exist. Read my post again; you will not find what you claim is there. You are inferring a connection that I simply never made.

1. That just means the mod can lie to us. It doesn't indicate anything about negative utility town roles.

Bastard games also address game mechanics and roles: death miller, changing wincons, etc.

2. Yes, but they're significantly less likely than it straight up being a scum role.

Governor is a straight-up scum role? I beg to differ. You are simply wrong.

[Aegor]

Aegor: explain how this whole game from juls reads town, considering her and how she makes cases.

My default is town because that is the statistical probability, and Juls has done nothing to make me question that default.

[Aegor]

Alignment. There are more town than scum. Generally.

[Aegor]

Aegor: I asked you a question about juls, still waiting for a response.

I already responded; you are welcome to ask follow-up questions.

[Aegor]

farside, forgive me for factoring in your scumhunting track record in our mutual games. There is no way I am voting Juls. As far as I can see, she is the most rational player in the game.

[Aegor]

I am done with this game until the quarrel between Juls and farside is resolved. My opinion has been clearly stated and I have no interest whatsoever in engaging further in what I consider a completely unproductive avenue of discussion. I still have no problem with Juls' and farside's tunneling is alignment-neutral, so this will go nowhere as far as I am concerned.

[Aegor]

Remind me of why ABR is conftown?


VOTE: Hostile Intent

[Aegor]

Just reviewed ika wagon looking for info. Unpleasantly surprised.

[Aegor]

VOTE: UT

Aegor, why vote HI rather than farside?

I have seen farside tunnel badly as town to vote her purely on that basis.

[Aegor]

Because DBG can use her ability later if need be.

[Aegor]

But then it makes even less sense to vote HI over farside.

I confess that I do not follow your train of thought.


Anyway, DGB could go either way at this point; her posts have been like they always are at the beginning of the game. Her role is more interesting. She seemed to want to be neighborized Day 1, and has used both un-loverizer and un-neighborizer to refer to her role. Do you feel strongly about her?

[Aegor]

Why do you think that I want HI and farside22 to remain lovers until they are both lynched in tandem?

[Aegor]

Yeah, at the time I stated it, especially given that some (e.g. farside) were calling for immediate un-loverization. Why rush anything? My subsequent statements made it clear that I did not mean that DGB should never use her ability.

[Aegor]

"Used if requested" is exactly right. But until we decide on a lynch, what is the point is jumping the gun?

[Aegor]

And the answer to your question is "probably," unless we feel that both HI and farside are scum.

[Aegor]

Why is HI more likely scum than farside?

[Aegor]

Really not impressed with ABR's recent posts.

See you never stated this or implied you felt that way.

1) I did
2) Even if I did not, who cares? Why would I explicitly discuss anything other than that which I consider absolutely necesssary?

This either.
Your statement was pretty point blank.

Which it should have been, otherwise it would have been useless. It was firm while not completely absolute.

You are saying do not use it, when dgb was asking what people thought.

Which was true at the time.

Well you have juls bad WIFOM saying if we both live one must be scum or we both are town and scum kill us at night in one shot. Tell me the town reason to keep us loverized.

Because that is the status quo and the town has the luxury of deciding how and when to change it.

[Aegor]

Catching up

[Aegor]

Marky, you say that Juls and DGB are probably not the same alignment. Surely that strongly suggests that you would want to lynch within them?

[Aegor]

@farside, let him answer for myself.


Mark, if you lynch Juls and she flips scum, would you want DBG to be lynched tomorrow?

[Aegor]

Will probably claim tonight with thoughts. I was traveling yesterday to visit my sister, so I am V/LA at the moment.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Konowa

it's almost deadline and it's looking like juls isn't going to happen. I'm okay with an aegor lynch although it's not my preference.

unvote vote Aegor

Several days before deadline?





Anyway, my claim is that I have a 1-shot ability to swap wincons with someone. But my ability is Weak, so I am basically a 1-shot investigative. I will use my ability tonight because I have not yet fulfilled my wincon and it will be increasingly difficult to do so. My wincon is pro-town.

[Aegor]

I recommend that if I am not lynched, we decide on whom I target tonight.

[Aegor]

No, because I am Weak and therefore die if I target scummy, you silly doughnut.

[Aegor]

*scum

[Aegor]

Therefore my pro-town wincon can only be swapped for another pro-town wincon, obvobv.



Read better, fool.

[Aegor]

And I would highly recommend that you not make claims that are easily falsifiable. If I end up lynched, I hope that you get lynched tomorrow for being so arrogant.

[Aegor]

i.e. that what I said was not my role, in response to your "what?" question.


I said that my wincon was pro-town; I did not say that it was generically town. I doubt that many other (if any) players have the same wincon.

[Aegor]

My role is to swap wincons. That ability is Weak, and is therefore a 1-shot investigative of sorts. I am town-aligned, but my wincon, while pro-town, is not "You when when all threats [etc.]" My wincon is named.

[Aegor]

How is that relevant?

[Aegor]

I fail to see how my vote on Hostile Intent is relevant in any way. Please explain to me ad you would to a child, using proper punctuation, complete sentences, and correct orthography.

Or someone just hammer and lynch the nekkid voters tomorrow.

[Aegor]

I have bot been able to target anyone. It is 1-shot and my ability is Night 2+. Was that not contextually clear?

[Aegor]

No; I am town. If you think i am third-party you should lynch me. And then lynch off my wagon. I have not met my wincon anyway and so will lose.

[Aegor]

My role sucks.

[Aegor]

No; I have not fulfilled my pro-town wincon. Please stop making this game unenjoyable with your persistently idiotic statements.

[Aegor]

Are you not reading my posts? I am town; my win condition is pro-town. I will lose the game permanently if i am lynched, but w/e. You people are not listening anyway.

[Aegor]

i.e. My win condition is not that I win if mafia are eliminated; it is something more specifically pro-town but that i have not fulfilled.

[Aegor]

Why is that concept difficult to understand? My wincon involves lynching mafia.

[Aegor]

I am not a hider. My ability is to swap winconcwith someone non-Mafia. My win conditions requires me to do something specific while also requiring all threats to the town to be dead, hence the non-generic town wincon. My ability is 1-shot and is available starting Night 2.

[Aegor]

I am not a hider. My ability is to swap winconcwith someone non-Mafia. My win conditions requires me to do something specific while also requiring all threats to the town to be dead, hence the non-generic town wincon. My ability is 1-shot and is available starting Night 2.

so you die if you target mafia?

Yes

[Aegor]

Lynch Aegor

Are you willing to 1-1?

[Aegor]

You're either scum or you're not helping us find scum as proven by your vote on confirmed town.

How is anyone confirmed town?

[Aegor]

I have said at least two times now that I cannot use my ability until Night 2.

I see no reason at all to provide scum with my secondary wincon and thereby provide them with information relevant to how they should play and how town players need to play.

[Aegor]

Oh also please tell us exactly what your current wincon is.

Aegor's caginess in the face of plenty of people asking for greater clarity strikes me as someone who has something to hide. If this ulterior agenda is anything other than scummy reasoning then she should (would) have explained it by now.

Since my engagement in this game is now zero, whatevs. In addition to having to eliminate all threats to town, I am an MVP, which means I need to be on more good lynches than bad. Since I was on the mislynch wagon yesterday, I lose if I am lynched today. I will lose regardless if I target scum this evening, but at this point, I have no problem taking one for the team. Or I could be a douche and swap with someone I think is town.

[Aegor]

IDK; I actually think Juls is town. But I will self-preserve.

Mod: VC please.

[Aegor]

Explain to me why one of you is scum...?

[Aegor]

VOTE: DGB]

[Aegor]

UNVOTE:

[Aegor]

VOTE: DGB

[Aegor]

OK, I've had my wincon changed to town MVP, which I am assuming was the work of Aegor. If it was it would make him VT now.

I confirm this.

I wanted to target someone I thought was town because I hammered without posting my target in-thread, which was a phail, I know. As far as I am concerned, Marky Mark is conftown. So I guess I accomplished something.


I really want to lynch ABR.

[Aegor]

VOTE: UT

[Aegor]

Lynchpool is {farside, UT, ABR} for me.

[Aegor]

ABR for frequent votes without reason; normally he is useful by this point. I maintain Juls' innocence and her recent posts have only solidified that read. I find farside's cases horrible regardless of her alignment, but she is at best negative utility here, so...

[Aegor]

VOTE: farside

[Aegor]

Actually she's been dead set about cases all game.

UNVOTE: farside22
VOTE: Juls

Classy misrep attempt though.

Why is there such an assumption with lynching Juls?

Does anyone think UT is town?

[Aegor]

BTW farside's replace out is null to me, but whatevs.

[Aegor]

Here. Will post tonight, promise.

[Aegor]

Surprised no one has accused me of WKing Juls. I told you that she was town. Anyway, Marky Mark NK was the obvious choice since he was confirmed.

I am thinking that there is definite scum in {UT, ABR-slot, droog}.

[Aegor]

Why, do you want to be accused of whiteknighting? At the very least Marky's flip confirms your role (though not necessarily your alignment). I'm on the fence about Aegor's power. MVP seems like a detrimental win condition, so I could see scum handing it out. Didn't another player mention getting his win condition changed? That was HI right? I have this crazy conspiracy where Aegor-scum can change the town's win condition to making winning for them harder.

That would be an awesome scum power, but the MVP condition sucked, which is why I wanted topass it to someone else or sacrifice myself by attempting to change it with scum.

@Aegor

: What are your current reads on Hostile Intent and Droog (formerly Farside)? Can you give me some insight on how those reads have evolved over time, please?

My problem with reading farside is that I often find what she posts incomprehensible because there are tons of typos (phoneposting, I know) and a train of reasoning that I cannot follow. Furthermore, regardless of alignment, she posts vehement and tunneling cases against other players. She is suspicious right now simply because of PoE and lack of overtly townie things, but I really cannot read her.

I need to ISO HI to see whether I think he is just sitting back.

[Aegor]

catching up

[Aegor]

Read through AV's ISO. Not much there, but not a fan of the re-vote on Juls in 602 or his tunneling on Juls and me. I am not really getting the town motivation there.


Anyway, at this point, either we have two scums, AV is scum, or all scum are on the wagon.

[Aegor]

Cooled off of HI. The wagon comp on AV is not looking good, but I have not really seen a clear case.

[Aegor]

Bookitty, do you mind explaining why you were holding off the TBone vote? And then voted him after he voted you?

[Aegor]

@HI: Why would I drop a vote?

[Aegor]

Will actually do substantial stuff tomorrow afternoon.

[Aegor]

Why was Bookitty lynched before I posted? I even said I would post.

[Aegor]

Also, do we have any claimed PRs still alive?

[Aegor]

Will get to this game tomorrow.

[Aegor]

droog, correct me if I am wrong, but is your case on HI merely the fact that you two are lovers and he is still alive?

[Aegor]

Well played, scumteam. My reads were WAAAAAAAAAAAAY off.