Mini 1630: Edgar Allan Poe uPick GAME OVER!

[TierShift]

A daystart pm would have been nice.
Egopost.

[TierShift]

@ffery: fakespeare has let me know he doesn't want to play anymore. Please replace purloinedletter with this account.

[TierShift]

I know Tiershift can be very persuasive

Have we played before and am I just forgetting?
If so, sorry.

Gonna make a larger post soon, consider this prodge.

[TierShift]

Okay, just to be clear.

I am not a treestump. I'm just voteless for the time being.

[TierShift]

Hey why is bookitty not town?

[TierShift]

From memory her posts are pretty town.

Then again, somewhat appeasing? Idk
Good read sunday or tonight, not sure yet.

[TierShift]

I've still not seen anything against coa other than pbpa by brantz and nothing from cat.

[TierShift]

I feel stupid for not understanding any of krystal's longer paragraphs.
Please try to explain what it is that you don't like about me, nik.

I mean, I assume that it is nik because I don't see mantis posting anywhere...
If she's not active, you can still just do whatever you want to do, you don't have to wait for her.

[TierShift]

I have no clue what you want to say. You swallow a drink, put it down, show me another object and put your glass on top of it?

Does it have to do with wifom?

[TierShift]

Ahhhhhhhhhh, I get it now. English isn't my first language, but googling beer mat helped me. (Coaster)

I agree that I'm doing jackshit as of now. Your read on me is probably fairer than all the fools calling me confirmed town for my claim.

[TierShift]

Calling people jester can be scummy for a multitude of reasons, but saying that it's "discrediting lynch and blaming the wagon on him" isn't even close to one of them, unless you'd be happy explaining this a little bit.

I most definitely will, in my following post. Phone makes me unable to search for a quote while making a post.

Lol, upset much

Is there a reason you just backed the fuck off here?
Or did you just not have anything else to say?

In the preceding post, TSO asked me to elaborate while 3/4 of the post was yelling at me. I know that from him and I know responding to find him out will do me no good in such a situation and will instead just lead to him clogging up the gamethread. The reason I made the post was not to convince the town to vote catastrophe, but rather to engage him and when I saw I couldn't, I stopped.
@TSO: it's a pretty serious flaw in your play that you prefer yelling over working together, but w/e

From memory her posts are pretty town.

Then again, somewhat appeasing? Idk
Good read sunday or tonight, not sure yet.

This post sucks.
Probably no CoA/TS scumteam though.

My placeholder posts are pretty placeholdery and don't actually exist to convey a message.

Wrt to your voting me, go ahead...if you've got no better place to vote. I'm pretty sure someone voted me before today, I think it was coa. So take a look at the VC and put that thingy where it does more good.

[TierShift]

Oh. In other news, I think Ghato is town now. I don't see scum proposing this strategy UNLESS Lynx is scum too and I'm convinced that is not the case.

Why'd you expect ghato to propose this strategy if lynxx were scum?

[TierShift]

If ghato is scum too, ofc.

[TierShift]

Wrt the copper scumread early day 1, see this quote from scum:

At this point I'm so confused I'm just hoping for someone other than you to town read me so I can sheep.
I can't make my town any more obvious than it already is, and everyone who scum reads that is questionable.

Why would I think you are town when you make a post like this?

This is trying to blame the scumread player for the scumread, as in 'well I can't help that I'm voting him, he's just that scummy' which is classic scum not trying to take responsability for their votes. I had the same feeling about copper's post. He was calling lynx a jester instead of explauning why he thought why lynx was scummy, trying to shift responsability away from himself 'wow he was so scummy that I even thought he was jester, lol how did he flip town, I had to vote him'.
If you don't understand this, I cannot help you.

But well, all this was invalidated when I realised copper did not, in fact, vote lynx

[TierShift]

Correction to my previous post: copper did in fact vote lynx.

You guys are gonna regret this wagon, promise.

When did you realise lynching you was pro-town? You seem pretty opposed to it here.

PL gets no townpoints for that opening, he literally went down the "what makes morph townread something on the first post" list and checked every box as he went. Which seems too deliberate and targeted at me?

Do you believe in scum loveriser?

[TierShift]

No offence, but lynx isn't one of the stronger players here imo. I wouldn't see why scumghato would not rather neighbourise weak town and leave strong town to die.

[TierShift]

You play a lot with Mollie and that kind of intro is what I'd expect from Mollie scum, unfortunately I have no direct scum meta on you. Your vote on me because I said the player I started the RVS on seemed scummy and I did the same in lucky star is good enough at first glance and may bag you a town read or two if the average player checks it out, but the quality of the two reads and the replies from Lynx and Lia are very different, so no hun for now I don't like you because you are going for appearance over analysis.

I didn't nderstand this post at first, but it strongly makes me think of copper as town now. Just a too weird story to push for new scum.

PurloinedLetter

(0): Catastrophe

@Nacho: quoted for convenience.

Drunken comments ping you now? Alright.

No matter what the original post, drunk comments can ping and are probably more likely to do so since you have worse focus and ability to hide beng scum while drunk. This is pretty dismissive and I don't like it.

[TierShift]

I've been debating about talking about this, but there is something in my role PM that indicates that something could happen that could cause something else. Does anyone else know what I am talking about?

Okay. I've decided to respond, because I have a same text in my role PM and I think you are town.
I know more or less what the thing is that is going to be caused by the action and I

strongly

advise for you to do anything you can to make the 'something that could happen' happen.
If you still think I'm town, please heed my advice.

I like copper for town so far.

Eh, I don't see what you're seeing, but I'm not sure yet.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: copper

This post is aggressively mediocre and completely avoids all discussion happenng around it. This should be today's lynch.

[

@Krystal: Do you have reasons to think we shouldn't be voting Lynx today? If you think we should, please nod. If not, please shake your head at me.

*Shakes head.*
*Points at LynxKuroneko. Moves fingers back and forth, parallel to one another, then clutches heart and falls to the ground, before slowly floating back up while wiggling her fingers and making an O with her mouth.*

I do not understand this and do want to understand it. Can you explain?

[TierShift]

Early game, I saw lynx as an excellent spot for scum to votepark.

I have ftl as town atm and kthx as scum and neither has much to do with their initial vote for lynx.

[TierShift]

Spoiler:

Lynx does seem pretty scummy though, did you roll Jester m'boy?

^this is why I'm voting copper. This is a hop onto the wagon that is serious with no good reasoning behind it.

He starts with: it's not OMGUS I promise (???), then an aTe about please stop voting me, then he hints PR with you will regret this and finally he avoids answering questions with random conments: I'm following the flow, he then went further with the PR hints.

He is either a very awkward scum player or something else is going on.

^His reasoning behind it when asked about his comment

It all seems forced and fake and after looking into copper, it's pretty easy to see where

VOTE: copper

comes from.

Also, he's avoiding me and my vote like the plague to avoid an OMGUS.

Oh and this:

I did a quick search of Ktx and did not find the same D1 wagon fondness in other games, direct meta someone?

is straight up false. A quick search should have revealed my hate/disinterest in D1's (and more often than not D2's) and my flippant voting on such days.

Unless it's a strong town read of mine, I give 2 shits who get's lynched today.

This is another post that completely misses all discussion preceding it. He's posting just to be seen posting. Want lynch.

Lol, upset much

I think it's just called being right.

I still have the utmost desire not to engage you, but can you please explain the coa and medea reads further? The problem I have with them is that they're pretty much non-commital reads.

I'd prefer tool to answer this, if possible.

*Points at PurloinedLetter with her left hand and Catastrophe with her right hand. Does the mouth thing again. Looking at the left hand, she dons a scowl that deepens as the conversation wears on. Then, looking to the right hand, she begins to cheer and even shows the slightest hint of a smile.*

I wonder how you can seriously think catastrophe came out of that conversation looking good. Please try to explain.

The townreads she's doled out so far are for pretty superficial reasons. The one on you is a perfect example of what I'm talking about there.

I think her townreads are pretty good. Can you elaborate on the other superficial obes?

I did not like these posts very much. Despite the fact that COA is my best scumread right now, I would be open to listening to them discuss why I should lynch this instead.

-Ceph

If you weren't getting a free pass today for being essentially a claimed vig, this would be scummy af.

I just said I wanted to policy lynch varsoon, so whatever case you get out of me is gonna have a healthy dose of 'irrational' and 'non-game related.' IME he's a liability to town and there's a decent chance he'll just quit under pressure leaving us with sonic, who is much easier to read.

Now that said? That is a pair of shitty posts. Particularly townreading Fightingmomma8:16 over nothing. And their ISO is not confidence inspiring. But my partner just put down an excellent vote and my feelings on the matter are Not To Be Trusted, so find somebody else to lead your charge.

I do not understand the stick sthar has up his butt here.

[TierShift]

Why would Lynx not be an excellent spot for town to votepark?

Because town, by default, want to use their vote on who they think is scummy.
Scum just want to give that illusion, but don't actually scumread people. That's why it's easy for them to leave a vote on an objectively scummy player and stop hunting; they don't actually hunt.

TSO, the problem is that you don't actually want to engage me and see where I come from, as evidenced by your condescending post in that post. Just as in this one. I'm not going to defend my earlier scumread, simply because I don't see any benefit in doing so. If you want to call it a win, go enjoy your win. That's the last I'll say about it. As said, if you have the desire to talk to me, let tool do the talking.

[TierShift]

Townlist
Policy
Boo
Ftl
Copper
Lynx

Scum from strong to weak:
Kthx- pls lynch
Coa- their pushes are weak and contrary to my thought process and I cannot see where they come from. Usually I can with TTH.
Brantz- a little underexplained. I mostly agree with ghato. Very close to null.

Others:
Ghato- would be on townlist if he weren't scmreading me for just not contributing too much. Really weird. Can you elaborate on your scumread on me?
Krystal bald- although I like his posts, he isn't doing too much pro-town stuff, by virtue of his PR. If it's real and he's trying his best, or if he's faking it and playing tryhard townie who actually doesn't help.
Catastrophe- wanna talk to tool.
Medea- pls post

I do not endorse a lynx lynch unless he claims. And then it'd better be worth 2 townies (himself+NK).
I want kthx lynched. Why is he not gettng lynched?

Ghato, opinion on kthx?

P-edit: still think kthx is scum, although the claim would be a deterrent to lynching him.

Also, I've played only once before with you and thought you were scum day 1 but basically shut up about it because of your sig. Let me revisit the game.

[TierShift]

After rereading austin powers for a bit and seeing kthx behave there, I feel pretty good in letting him live for a day. Plus his clam ofc.

Let's lynch cao!
Do it!

[TierShift]

Lynx has a power post-lynch, not post-NK. I see little value in neighbourising him, because I for one don't believe he is that much of a boon to town, seeing his complete lack of input atm.

[TierShift]

I hope you did not miss the thng I said about my role pm.

[TierShift]

I'm not trying to diss.
But I did fail at reading!
So sorry, kitty. Plan is good.

[TierShift]

Prob is that ghato can be blocked of blocker exists.

Boo, can you or can you not facilitate the thing happening?

[TierShift]

Boo, do you know if the event can be activated by a player's pr or something?

On the neighbourising vs lynching thing, I need to kbow what the power is. I need to kbow exactly how strong it is, and if it worth sacrificing 2 townies JUST IN CASE scum have an RB.

[TierShift]

Thanks tool. I assume that you do not feel the same about medea as tso does?

My desire not to engage TSO stems not from a negative feeling about that; simply because it would not be productive. I'd like you to comment on the post TSO was getting screamy about (or at least, that's how I took it).

[TierShift]

I'm only having Tiershift as town because we can't lynch him if he's scum.

Poor poor sonic
You can't lynch me regardless of my alignment, lol.

Why again is everyone on a 1-man wagon?
There's only 4 days left, let's build ourselves a good coa wagon.
VOTE: cask

[TierShift]

Why does it matter who votes you?

[TierShift]

Lynx, is lynching you worth losing two townies?

That's all I need to vote you.

[TierShift]

Considering how often it can happen D1 regardless.

Look, lynching you is just postponing the day 1 lynch. The informationless lynch will then happen on day 2 and has the same chance of hitting a townie.

[TierShift]

Nobody should read your previous posts as they are complete tosh, no idea about the future.

I don't know about Tier, on one side Boo, a townread of mine thinks he is town and there seems to be some sort of role interaction there, on the other I think he coasted till a few pages back because he was unvotable and that seems more scum indicative, I would not put him on the wagon but I can see why some might want to.

Why do you suggest my unvotable thing has anything to do with the fact that I was doing nothing proactive?

[TierShift]

If lynx is sensor I'd gladly be on on the wagon
VOTE: lynx
My vote doesn't count anyway, which is great for this purpose.

[TierShift]

Also, pedit @tier: if it works exactly the way I think it does, your vote may be counterproductive actually.
-Ceph is moving on to page 17

We want the highest amount of universal townreads on the wagon as to narrow down the pool of scum as much as possible.

I think it's safe to say not all scum will be sensored; no way ffery would make a game that townsided.

[TierShift]

I'll take Mod-Provided Fakeclaims for 800 please, Alex.

Maybe. I hadn't thought about that angle.

I like the list. I prefer Tiershift to vote rather than Lynx self-voting though.

MY VOTE DOESN'T COUNT SO WE NEED ANOTHER

[TierShift]

I disagree, TTH. We should try our best to make the division as uneven as possible. We ideally aim for 0 scum in the lynch wagon, but 1 is pretty decent. That means 2 scum in the remaining...what...4 players?

[TierShift]

Right. We'll just let lynx choose.

[TierShift]

UNVOTE:

[TierShift]

I do not approve of following boo's opinion. Please don't, lynx.

[TierShift]

It's just that I know that I might turn around on people suspecting each other as is the case now with you and coa. I townread you, but I'd rather not have you influence who's on lynx's wagon. My townread on you is just not as strong as the claim based one on policy. I'd like him and lynx to figure out the list, with lynx having authority.

[TierShift]

Lynx, I will only answer your question of who I'd like to have the hammer if I'm an unconditional townread of yours. Otherwise I refuse by policy. I don't want others to influence you, so I should set the example.

[TierShift]

I don't really care if I'm on the wagon, since I think I can more or less confirm I'm town later on. Well, not really, but close enough.

[TierShift]

I agree with copper 518 fwiw

[TierShift]

I'd not want cat on this wagon because he's suggesting he should be.

[TierShift]

Because cat is trying to manipulate the lynx wagon

[TierShift]

And now I am, but you get the point.

[TierShift]

Sure, lynx decides. But stop suggesting yourself.

[TierShift]

meh okay I give in

[TierShift]

Let's lynch cao!
Do it!

hey i think u forgot 2 vote here brah

hey brah my vote doesn't count brah
Or to quote yourself:

Read better pls

I disagree, TTH. We should try our best to make the division as uneven as possible. We ideally aim for 0 scum in the lynch wagon, but 1 is pretty decent. That means 2 scum in the remaining...what...4 players?

This math confuses me. 13 living players, 7 on the wagon. That means five remaining players. Six if Lynx self-votes, which is bad. Not that I disagree, but why are we getting different numbers?

hey brah my vote doesn't count brah

@Tier- are you gonna fake a cop guilty on me this game?

Oh...what was that game again?

[TierShift]

Tier said that his logic for why he called FTL and Kthx particularly scummy at RVS

I called ftl scummy?

[TierShift]

Boo, what are your current reads?

[TierShift]

But you're still a player in the game, right? You have an alignment and all that? Why would you not having a vote affect the number of unscanned players?

Me voting means 8p on the wagon and 4p off the wagon
Me not voting means 7p on the wagon and 5p off the wagon
As said, vote doesn't count.

[TierShift]

- Once people started to call him out for it his activity level changed substantially but the questions he was asking implied he wasn't thinking too deeply about what was going on and he kind of role fished on Lynx before commiting to the lynch amd trying to push his vote on the wagon.

Bah, are you using the beetlejuice tell on me?

[TierShift]

Step 1. Don't blindly trust other people's reads

[TierShift]

That's neither here nor there, what I'm considering are possible motives for including people in your town circle for what I consider weak reasons, one possible motive is you genuinely thought it was good logic and missed something, another is you want most of town to like you because of OMGUR and so you can help your scumbuddies by pushing them in the town circle.

My post was wrt what bookitty was telling you.

You take issue with myself townreading the ones who townread me?

[TierShift]

Do you want me to address your concerns or are they out there for other people?

[TierShift]

PL
Copper
Ftl
Krystal
Boo
Cat
Me
Uhhh....ghato? Kthx?

[TierShift]

- His opener suggests he knows more about Lynx than he should have (same problem I have with CoA).

I saw lynchbait, scum usually jump onto lynchbait. Lynchbait can be scum, but scum are all over that. That's why I pursued the voters rather than the votee.
I don't understand how I should have known about lynx as either alignment or how that makes me scum.

- He coasted during mid D1 and received unjustified (in my opinion) townreads based on his role from numerous people, I'm always suspicious of people getting townreads like this because it may come from scum thinking of getting easy towncred if he is town (cause it looks obvious to them when it's not that he's actually is town) or from scum pushing a buddy in the town circle, I don't see much of a motive for town to do so other than being obtuse (which tbf happens more often than you'd wish) or maybe having a better understanding of ffery's setups as mod and making a more educated guess than I can.

This is a point against the guys who townread me, not against me. You even say that this is happening regardless of my alignment.
I can confirm ffery Upicks have negative utility roles.

- Once people started to call him out for it his activity level changed substantially but the questions he was asking implied he wasn't thinking too deeply about what was going on and he kind of role fished on Lynx before commiting to the lynch amd trying to push his vote on the wagon.

This is beetlejuice tell which is shitty (and works especially bad on me but it stinks regardless) on anything that's not a newbie.
I have periods of not caring about a game in every game; I coast a little, comment on recent stuff, ask a few questions. Afterwards I really catch up and do stuff. That's how I work, go check my meta.
About the role fishing on lynx: I was rolefishing. I'm not utility lynching someone without a reason. Why would I not try and get a claim, if scum are gonna see the flip before the NK anyway? It's only good to get it out.


I still don't really understand what your issue with me is. You list a few things that are true, but alignment-neutral.

[TierShift]

@2: I'll revisit the townreads on me, good point. Claim related townreads are hard to read though.

[TierShift]

Agree with the list but ftl>ghato
Self-vote might be good idea.

[TierShift]

Wow, varsoon looks like a shitty player. I thought he was good Does thid mean he's scum?

[TierShift]

Problem I'm having here is that varsoon's case on coa is indicative of him being either a bad town player or scum. Is there anyone that would like to comment on the quality of varsoon's town play?

[TierShift]

I think coa is town and boo is scum

Gonna do an ISO of them soon and elaborate.

[TierShift]

The event I talked about in 343 has been triggered.
If the event was triggered on purpose, will the one who did so please reveal himself/herself?

[TierShift]

Whatever happened last night affected me as well. My abilities have changed from what they were before.

For better or for worse? Why didn't you mention earlier that your abilities could change?

The event I talked about in 343 has been triggered.
If the event was triggered on purpose, will the one who did so please reveal himself/herself?

Why?

Not saying. I can more or less prove I'm town, so don't worry.

[TierShift]

Claiming guilty?

[TierShift]

If you're willing to 1v1 you should claim exactly that and nothing more.

So, waterproof guilty?

[TierShift]

Well, okay.
Brantz is town, unless coa is scum. I don't believe coa is scum, so brantz is town.
I'm going to reread, but I think I'm ending up on bookitty today.

I think we have no evidence of there being two scum on the wagon. At least one scum means that one scum is probably unscannable, bit we do not know if that scum was on or off the wagon. Yesterday's lynch was just wasted...

[TierShift]

Also, since no one's claimed responsibility for the night happenings, I'll just go ahead.

I started the game as a treestump. Couldn't be voted, couldn't vote, couldn't be killed. My role did say my abilities could change based on unspecified game events. In the hopes of getting nightkilled, I said I would be cured of my treestumpness and that I couldn't claim 'X' because of my other PR.

Because the unspecified game event was very positive (gaining a vote, probably), I tried to convince others to make it happen. And now it did!

So this is what I can give on why I'm town. It should match completely with my play, because I did it on purpose. It also doesn't make much sense as a scum play.

I'm claiming now because I realise it's not the strongest of townclaims and I might just be voted for it if I coast on the 'I can prove I'm town' till lylo

[TierShift]

Brantz is town, unless coa is scum. I don't believe coa is scum, so brantz is town.

Can you walk me through this, please? I'm with you on Brantz is town. How would CoA being scum make Brantz scum, though?

Not implied. Coa being town would make brantz 100% town, coa being scum would have no effect on brantz.

Because the unspecified game event was very positive (gaining a vote, probably), I tried to convince others to make it happen. And now it did!

Your role PM said it was a positive thing, or you assumed it?

I start the game as a fucking treestump. How can I not assume it's a positive thing?

[TierShift]

Bookitty has a point.

[TierShift]

Imagine there are 6 players on that lynch, 4 are morbid, one is non morbid and one is euforic aligned but results on him yield no information (if you were to investigate him you would get a no result back), now the scan goes through, the mod says:

At least one is non morbid, this is accurate and integrates the information that there is a blank, with in this case there being 1 non morbid and 1 euforic on the lynch.

Are you saying the non-town faction is called euphoric? How do you know?

[TierShift]

If I just caught a scumslip and my biggest townread turns out to be scum I'm happy.
I'd like to lynch between medea and krystal if this is a ruse.

The 1 or 2 scum discussion should stop. I have an opinion on the matter but, frankly, we cannot be completely sure. The whole unscannable can be town or scum thing is even more useless. Continue that terrible thread-clogging post-game.

[TierShift]

But I was so sure on coppertown...

[TierShift]

If we lynch someone and they come up Euforic, though, copper is going to have some 'splaining to do.

Agreed.

Copper, no worries, you still have my complete trust.

I will vote as soon as I see a VC.

[TierShift]

Cabd, you are going to be holding up the game soon. I would appreciate it if you replaced out.

@Ftl: we can still lynch off the wagon firsf.

[TierShift]

I agree with it, whether it's a joke or not!

[TierShift]

BRantz is probs my number one scum. His posting just reads fake to me. It's largely gut, but when I get time, I'll delve in wmore to try and explain the reads in this post more in depth.

discuss a BRantz lynch pls

Lol this guy

2) TierShift
---He says he can prove his towniness with his role. If it wasn't for that he'd take my #1 spot. I don't really like how he tried to say that certain people couldn't be on the Lynx wagon due to their wanting to be on the Lynx wagon; it read like scum trying to direct the wagon. I also feel like the way he just said "yesterday's lynch was wasted..." without really trying to figure it out is not what I'm used to seeing from townTier. I'd like him to claim before lylo.

I already claimed in 794. You played like one game with me, so I don't know what you're expecting from my towngame, exactly. My proactiveness comes and goes with other games, schedule and whether or not I feel like playing mafia.

Scum are split 2-1 or 1-2 across the lynch. Whoop dee fucking doo. We gain absolutely nothng from that. Not enough to justify the mislynch. I could have added to the whole useless spec that ensued in the following pages, or I could just accept it for what it was. Nothing.
Now, if by 'trying to figure it out' you mean scumhunting instead of useless setup spec, I have no idea why you lumped it in there. But I will do that sometime soon, hopefully. For now I'm happy voting probable scum in kthx. I'll take a look at his claim again and then decide.

I'd like to add that while I do have another ability than the treestump thing, it's not an after death-thing, so that kind of destroys your idea of 1 power while alive, 1 while dead.
Since you're town, I'll demonstrate my other power to you tonight. Promised. If I do not, you can quote this post and shake your head real hard.

@mod: can krystal bald still vote?

[TierShift]

Well, I can find nothing in kthx's claim that suggests a strongman, rather a line that denies having other abilities.
I can also not think of a reason for town to have a strongman.

VOTE: kthx

[TierShift]

Thinking about leaving kthx alive as confirmed scum for his after death ability which is horrendous for town.

[TierShift]

holy shit, you guys are actually buying that.

ok, here's the deal folks, give me till Thursday so I can point out why everyone voting me is a dumbass

Scumclaim?

Can I get feedback on my idea of letting kthx live as confirmed scum because of his abilities?

[TierShift]

@Boo
copper223TOWN
BookittyTOWN
catastropheTOWN
Ghatokaca Likely 3rd scum
KthxbyeSCUM

Off the wagon, towniest to scummiest:

Krystal BaldTOWN
BrantzTOWN
Faster than lightTOWN
Cask of AmontilladoTOWN
Tiershift unlikely 3rd SCUM
Medea the Alien likely 2nd SCUM

Why did no one ever comment on my claim?

second and third scum is between {medea;cat;ghato;bookitty} and I'll be damn sure to go over this some time.

[TierShift]

Well, everyone is just kind of neglecting it. I think it makes me town, but no one else seems t think so.

[TierShift]

The whole fact that I switched from non-voting to voting and how I tried to make that happen and how it worked out should make me town. There is nothing else, except for a minor detail that should come tomorrow.

[TierShift]

@ffery: can scum kill and perform another targeting action in the same night?

[TierShift]

@Tier

The whole fact that I switched from non-voting to voting and how I tried to make that happen and how it worked out should make me town. There is nothing else, except for a minor detail that should come tomorrow.

Why? You would try to do exactly the same thing regardless of alignment.

I disagree. The shroudedness in an attempt to get nightkilled and the openness about asking for the unspecified event to happen would not have been there. For all I know, there could be role out there that knows the specific action is in favour of scum.

[TierShift]

what about if they're the last scum left?

[TierShift]

Oh great. I'm not confirmable beyond my role being AWFUL balance for a scum role. Not a little, but absolutely horrendous balance.

[TierShift]

I was gonna claim until I saw bookitty's post. I'll refrain from it now.

I think I'm not going to effort this game because it's not a game; it seems like a horrifically broken thing where we just lynch from a list. I'm on the list, I cannot confirm myself beyond how I played my role and how that's obviously town and balance. If I'm still on the list, fine.

[TierShift]

Cat is on the list, don't worry.

[TierShift]

I think some of the points coa makes are weak but I agree with the general concensus of the post.

[TierShift]

I like kthx and his reactions seem genuine but we should probably just lynch him...

[TierShift]

I don't know. You're a townread of mine.

[TierShift]

I rechecked my posts and I have no idea what you're talking about, copper.

[TierShift]

Pretending you're town with a guilty on you isn't that hard.

[TierShift]

Lol

[TierShift]

Ftr, cat, I don't have an after death ability.

[TierShift]

Idgi

[TierShift]

Krystal claims her 1-shot rolecop found out kthx has a 1-shot strongman ability.
Kthx claims not to have that.

In addition, krystal claims kthx's other ability to be after-death; if he dies, town loses cardflips. This makes it a pro-scum power.
Kthx claims his power is a while-alive power; while he's alive, full cardflips are enabled. This makes it a pro-town power.

Why has this day not ended yet?
Reck, if you want to catch up this day phase, hurry the fuck up.

[TierShift]

If ghatokaca is town there are grounds for a ban based on not playing to their wincon, so I will just assume they are scum.

Can you explain this?

[TierShift]

Wassup with me krystal?

[TierShift]

Buuuuuuut I'm not scuuuuuhuuuuum.

[TierShift]

Why is one of copper/ghato scum?
Consider my vote on krystal.

[TierShift]

Coa, what takes you so long?

[TierShift]

Copper I don't know why you think you look so obvtown. From where we're sitting you're right up there as being one of the most likely scum. But for the sake of thoroughness, would you care to make an argument for why you're town?

Are you kidding me Tool? I was the only one who even thought that Kthxbye might be town, you just wanted to lynch him end of story. You really think I put doubt in your minds as scum and play around with the lynch by fake hammering him and giving him a chance to recover? You're out of your mind if you are town.

Wait, this actually reads like scum...because this is exactly what scum would do.
Well, maybe I'll effort one of these days. But I don't think so. Whatever happens, we need to lynch krystal first anyway.

[TierShift]

I find it funny that if you are town you are scumreading me because I'm better than you btw.

What?

By the way you said you would confirm yourself during the night phase, what did you do?

I said so? Where?

[TierShift]

Oh, that. Decided to refrain from it earlier.

I'll do it to you tonight instead!

[TierShift]

I'm shaking my head really hard.

well, kthx did flip town, so letting krystal confirm me was probably not the best thing to do!

[TierShift]

Because it doesn't matter

[TierShift]

Why doesn't it matter? Isn't it a good thing if you're confirmed?

I guess? Like it matters today.

I still do not know why Krystal traded like that

You said it yourself, but you left out the fact Krystal wasn't in danger of being lynched anyway and that made the trade even more baffling.

Plus the claim was really specific. It wasn't "I'm a cop, I have a guilty" or something general like that. It was "I'm a

rolecop

and I have this result he's a

strongman.

"

I think the fact that the claim was specific is not important. It was just a smart move by nikanor. There's more that can meddle with a cop guilty than with a rolecop strongman guilty.

Krystal was on the list of getting lynched sometime, so the fact that he did this doesn't surprise me too much, in hindsight. Why kthx, though, is much more of a question. He was more or less useless to the town.
Perhaps scum benefit extremely from not getting flips? Seems weird.

[TierShift]

Is F-16 ever gonna post?

If the QT is still open, why can't you convey lynx's thoughts.

[TierShift]

you don't like it here?

[TierShift]

guys, deadline is approaching. just finish this.
VOTE: krystal bald

[TierShift]

oh, shit, looked at game title.

ffery, please update timely next time!

[TierShift]

well, confirm is a big word.

Who'd you suggest?

[TierShift]

cats you're ma man

[TierShift]

Ur late

[TierShift]

Cat love how do you smell today?

[TierShift]

We are half of the reason copper and Medea both died N3.

Well, I suppose FTL is the other half.

Why did you loverise copper?

[TierShift]

Also, cat, I am not strictly clear, but eh.

[TierShift]

Also, I am going to solve this game, bitches.

[TierShift]

Can you expand on the behaviour described in 1379 with specific examples, cat? As in, quote posts from this game that are (vaguely) similar to posts in other game that you then also quote?

Did you also check his scumgame?

Gonna do a full reread. Will most likely spoiler the less important parts.

[TierShift]

Good thing I was not on the wagon, in hindsight!

[TierShift]

Spoiler:

@Krystal: Do you have reasons to think we shouldn't be voting Lynx today? If you think we should, please nod. If not, please shake your head at me.

Flagging as potential scumbuddy interaction.

@FTL: I'd just like to point out that we haven't said anything since our first post. That's why we didn't follow up on the question.
@Policy: Why is Lynx obvtown again?
@copper: What exactly is the "shallow observation" you're talking about in #160?
@copper: Please explain the phrase "first to brake off the wagon on a more or less obvious town now" in post #142. Who is the obvious town you're talking about, how did we "brake off" the wagon and what is scummy about that?

This feels like scumtool...have said this before, I believe.[

[TierShift]

Well I was going to walk in here to yelll and ceph and reign orcinus back to the driver's seat but then lynx kept posting and ???


PL gets no townpoints for that opening, he literally went down the "what makes morph townread something on the first post" list and checked every box as he went. Which seems too deliberate and targeted at me?


P-edit: I expect some amusing walls in response from copper, now having played with him once and seeing his style.

Nope, don't like this post at all - the ego in it is off.

what did you mean by this, TSO?

Spoiler:

Ha! She thinks CofA is talking out of his ass! Right?

<3 Krystal

Sorry, Purloined Letter. I was laughing very hard and typed the wrong thing

This strikes me as unlikely scumbuddy interaction with krystal.

CaskOfAmontillado (This thing is pretty close to null, really, but I'm just not really a fan of it so far. Make me believe, please.)

Let me guide you back to my readslist, where I

gave

didn't give

reasoning for my Cask read.

Ftfy

I want an explanation. 'I don't like it so far' is not an explanation, that is close to the definition of a scumread.

You didn't fix anything, actually.

That slot is at nullscum because a lot of its posts made me mildly uneasy, such as sthar talking to Krystal about the PR. <--- That is called a gut read. It's a perfectly viable, acceptable and useful way of reading people in Mafia.

But, actually, I'd have assumed that was somewhat obvious - given that, in the initial read, it's clearly stated the slot is closer to null than scum and no specific posts are given (a la Kthx) so it's a general thing. I would find these assumptions pretty elementary to make.

Clearly it was more difficult than it seemed to me.

I more or less scumread you for the fact that your reads are mostly echoed from others and that the only new thing you bring to the table, a medea scumread, is heavily underexplained, again.

I am in awe of how stunningly bad a reason this is to scumread someone.

Can you explain the problem you have here? Is it the bit where my reads are the same as others?

I hate to shatter your paradigm of this game - but that's not a reason to scumread someone. It's not even

close.

I have no idea what you wanted here - did you believe that we simply couldn't have the same reads as others, or some other nonsense like that?

Or could it be

many of the reads are the same because they're not opinion-based reads, they're claim-based reads, which are pretty clearly being universally townread?

Did you consider that once? Or did you consider that the Medea scumread, for example, doesn't have a huge amount of content because

we're 8 pages into the game and the hydra is V/LA?

-TSO

This post still hits me badly...throwing such a tantrum over such a small thing looks like scum finding something to do that makes them look useful.

*
*Points at PurloinedLetter with her left hand and Catastrophe with her right hand. Does the mouth thing again. Looking at the left hand, she dons a scowl that deepens as the conversation wears on. Then, looking to the right hand, she begins to cheer and even shows the slightest hint of a smile.*

*Points at BRantz. Sits on an imaginary chair and pats his lap, beaming.*

I commented on this before. I found it weird krystal thought tso was coming out of that exchange well. It might be explained by them being buddies, however.

I really don't like that Ghato has basically said he is going to continue being a non contributor until he feels like it.

I quoted this because it's still happening; nacho is doing next to nothing and has F16 even posted? Same goes for reck, start doing shit. It's f-ing mylo.

[TierShift]

Are we pulling the 'I'm almost confirmed town'-card, TSO?

[TierShift]

So...you've seen copper display behaviour in most of his scumgames and in some of his towngames. And now you're arguing this behaviour should have made him scum?

Also, not arguing against your claim of a 1-shot cannibal. Just show me how it implicates town alignment.

[TierShift]

Well we know scum have/had a role that could detain Cask's results, possibly one that could mess with the sensor result and we know that they had a beloved princess. The last one alone is pretty heavy, but a backup that can choose when and who to back up? Seems like a bit much.

Well, town is pretty heavy too, except for me and possibly Reck.

Also, if we were scum then why would we loverize one of our scum partners with a townie instead of loverizing two townies together?

And why would we choose to loverize copper when like three people were starting to suspect him at the end of the last gameday?

I'm just not ruling things out. Today would be MyLo if you had that as scum ability. Now you have two options:
A. Make it be a secret mylo, as in connect two townies.
B. Connect your scumbuddy that is obviously going to be shot to a suspected townie for towncred.
Both are pretty safe. The only thing I really doubt is ffery allowing both a beloved princess and a loveriser to fall into the hands of scum, or even two beloved princesses for that matter.

[TierShift]

That's a bad tell as I do it as town as well if the circumstances warrant it, I just finished a town game where my whole defence was based around such a point, but I believe it to be genuine effort on the side of Cat., warning Tier that he should not choose me for his second ability is consistent with their stated behavior as well and you should not forget they did not need to claim to have something to do with the double death on N3.

Yeah, they're probably town. Also not denying nacho is likely the last scum, I just reread and take everything into consideration at l/mylos, it's what I do!

[TierShift]

Today should be a no lynch so that I can attempt to confirm myself. TierShift is confirmed town because of sensor. Catastrophe is confirmed town because loverize + double night is too ridiculous (plus scavenge double night ability from scumpartnet would be dumb).

I haven't been following closely but I'm thinking the last scum in Reckoner based on Bookitty's interactions with the flipped scum. I won't be posting for a few days but when I'm back, I'll evaluate the game then.

Why do bookitty's interactions matter if you've PoE'd reck anyway?

Please quote the interactions you think are incriminating.


To rehash what reck said: how are you going to conf yourself?

[TierShift]

yeah, agreed. Was thinking too that the sensor result might mean third party. Survivor seems a real possibility.

[TierShift]

How would you confirm yourself, Ghatokaca?

This all you have to talk about?

Answer the damn question.

If there is a third party in this game that can win with both factions, sleeping is an auto loss for town.

What does this mean?
If I'm third party survivor and scum exists, then town would already have lost.

Not really? You cannot lynch town with two votes.

The only third party that would benefit from a no lynch and somehow win in this situation would be a "I have to survive to day 6" role and that just seems dumb to me.

That's false, a No Lynch would get one of me or cat killed, who are more or less confirmed town anyway. It would definitely help the possible survivor, who is either of you or reck. He'd then vote the townie and win. He can't really win today without a vote on someone that is not him.

[TierShift]

I really don't understand why you're playing dumb.

[TierShift]

@Tier
What happened that enabled you to vote D2?

I don't know. Ffery's PM just told me something happened. Pretty sure the wording is not relevant. Want me to check?

Not really? You cannot lynch town with two votes.

But we could force a no lynch with two votes >.>

Lol sry

Copper do you see any reason to trust Ghato as town?

Is there any actual reason not to no lynch today?

Confirmed town dies?

Copper do you see any reason to trust Ghato as town?

I echo this question.

Is there any reason you don't want all of town to assess the validity of your claim? Is there any harm done if scum find out what your role is?

[TierShift]

I think ghato should claim inthread. Copper, how do you feel about that?

[TierShift]

Oh, one interesting thing is that I got the pm stating my treestumpness went away 6 hours

before

the daystart pm.

It said there was joy in a Poe game. That was the reason I got my vote and the ability to be lynched/nk'd back.

[TierShift]

Oh, name is Marie Roget.

Personally I am paranoid that scum has some final night action trick up their sleeve that will end the game if we go to night

Assuming that scum has another double night action in addition to a scum beloved princess in a 13p game where town will almost certainly be lynched D1 is additionally bad reasoning.

You shouldn't have to balance for positive town utility such as a self-sensor.

Nacho really makes little sense and it's worrisome and I don't know if I want to trust him about going into night either.

I asked you about ghato's claim. Exactly how confirmed does it make him tomorrow? Why didn't he confirm himself earlier? Isn't it fucking convenient to claim what he's claiming to be?

[TierShift]

Maybe ffery was just late in opening the thread.

Is there a good reason why ghato hasn't confirmed himself yet?
Will he be confirmed even if you die somehow?

[TierShift]

7 Something pm GMT+1 from memory

[TierShift]

reck, who is scum?

[TierShift]

You know you're going to be lynched tomorrow if ghaot confirms himself? Is that not an incentive to do shit?

[TierShift]

Kthx's power doesn't make sense with cannibal as scum. Just saying, pretty sure cat is town.

[TierShift]

Ghato's brantz case mzkes me think ghato is scum.

[TierShift]

If he can do that, then it's Cat. If he can't, I'm voting Ghato.

Why aren't you scumhunting? Why can't it be cat if ghato refuses to claim?

[TierShift]

I'll resume my catch-up tonight, presumably.
Things I want from copper, in a clear way:
1. The chance ghato confirms himself tomorrow
2. Clearance to lynch ghato if he does NOT confirm himself tomorrow
3. Abilities fitting with flavour
4. Ability, next to being confirmable, necessarily being town-aligned
5. If the role is convenient to claim right now (probably is)
6. If the role seems like something ffery would put in
7. If it sounds like it's made up
8. If it fits with the flipped/claimed roles.

[TierShift]

cool, ready for this to go into night. Would do a catchup, but can't be arsed to seeing ghato either confirms himself tomorrow or is pronounced scum. If ghato confirms himself, lynch reck.

[TierShift]

why?

[TierShift]

I have a hard time believing Ffery picked Annabel Lee as scum role and it kind of makes sense as a VT

please don't do this. I very much doubt ffery games are flavour-breakable.

I find Boo's play hard to read. She has this "I desperately need to do what's best for town"-vibe that comes with either a player's town- or scumgame. Sadly, I do not have meta on her to determine which of the two it is.

[TierShift]

still not buying setup spec

[TierShift]

If we No Lynch we win if reck is scum and if ghato is bluffing scum BUT we lose if he has double NK.
If we lynch ghato we win if ghato is scum.

I want to take into account the chance that he's bluffing.

[TierShift]

I do not understand why he is afraid of a redirect.

It seems to fit otherwise, I guess.

[TierShift]

Game Specific Notes:

Due to the game mechanics, the dead thread won't be started right away. Until you are invited to the dead thread, you are completely and utterly prohibited from talking about this game with other dead players.

This somewhat confirms ghato's role, doesn't it?

[TierShift]

no, that's not true. If specific players can post after-death messages, these specific players will not be added to the dead thread. If random people can get revived, the dead thread cannot start until the revive happens.

[TierShift]

agreed. Going to have to do my assessment of boo vs coa that I've been wanting to do for ages.

[TierShift]

I find it very unlikely reck is a RB, given the flipped roles. I also find it very unlikely ghato has a double kill. Willing to NL.

[TierShift]

Oh, I get it now.

I'm really going to do the promised stuff sometime.

[TierShift]

Reck isn't any better.

[TierShift]

Booo

But I agree.

[TierShift]

No lynch has already happened. I do not get why reck immedoately hammered that NL. Do explain.

I think reck is likely scum.

[TierShift]

Usually it takes only 50% of the players to NL.

[TierShift]

I started sorting through the boo-coa argument and it's still hard for me. Going on rn.

[TierShift]

Oh this reading is so golden
Totally down to vote reck now.

Is bookitty known to make extreheeemely shallow cases such as the ones in 595 and 598? It looks like textbook IIoA cases by scum.

Btw copper can you explain why you started talking about mollie in 98? I don't understand the posts around it and want to find out why boo called them awkward. Thanks.

[TierShift]

Cat, copper, here's where I'm at. I've come to the end of the first page of a coa-boo ISO and it's been really enlightening.

Factors that speak in favour of boo/reck being scum:
-The lack of scumhunting boo puts in. Coa is absolutely right about them only finding town. Boo sweeps her scumreads under the rug, mostly.
-Her awful, AWFUL IIoA case on coa. It did not really explain why she thought coa was scum, it was just "this post is bad because of bad reason X, this post is bad because of bad reason Y". Read 595.
-Her continued and continuedly unpursued scumread of medea. Medea once made a comment that nagged her (about not townreading her) and then disappeared. This does not translate to a scumread and definitely not to one in the category 'scum for sure' that she puts him in. Feels like awkward buddy interaction.

Stuff that gives me pause:
-her openness about the triggered part in her role PM. She was the first to talk about it and wasn't really rolefishing. Could have been dangerous for scum.

Feedback, please.

[TierShift]

Btw the fact that she HAS 'the triggered by unknown event'-part doesn't make her more likely to be town. In fact, rather the opposite as townies me, brantz and cat already have it. Would make sense for scum to have it as well.

The only thing that bugs me is that she started talking about it.

[TierShift]

Cool. I'll do a final ISO of both with the scumteam tomorrow and then decide.

[TierShift]

@Tier
Sorry but part of that sounds a lot like confbias, her case on CoA didn't ping anyone at the time so I don't see how you now find it scum indicative.

I reread and get new insights, that's what I do. I probably didn't read thatcase in-depth the first time around. Now can you stop being superficial and respond to the points I have raised?
Do you disagree it is a super shallow case?
Why does it even matter it didn't ping first time around?

What I found was that prod request post to both Medea and Krystal, I think scum is more likely to want their teammates active and to pay attention to their activity level, so I find that post scummy with the info we now have on the rest of the team, I agree with the Medea interaction being awkward, more from Medea's side, I have seen scum teammates try to brush off my questions because they know I'm not really interested in the answer like they did with Boo, her trying to put Krystal on the Lynx wagon is also suspicious now and of course she did her best to convince us Krystal was the legit PR D2.

Prodding people is not scummy.
I don't get why you don't feel the interaction isn't awkward from medea's side.

Can you respond to the points I raised, maybe?

[TierShift]

Iagree with reck, really. What reason is there not to hammer NL?

[TierShift]

I'd like to correct myself. I meant to show disbelief at you not finding the interactions scummy from

bookitty

's side.

What is your opinion on her CoA case?
What do you think about her starting the talk about triggered abilities?

[TierShift]

Ghato attempted to use his one-shot on Lynx, that could be why Tier gained his ability to vote.

Why do you think so?

[TierShift]

I don't see any point in this happening bar Ghato's ego, so I'm against it, but Ghato's staunch insistence on this taking place makes me think there's more to this than we're being told.

He could tell copper if there is something.

[TierShift]

I'm not 100% ready.

[TierShift]

Do you think our fear that scum can mess with the night actions and win the game overnight is ungrounded?

[TierShift]

Okay maybe I do agree with reck

The chance of double kill is horrifically low
redirect does not revive scum

What can go wrong? Maybe we even get a confirmation.

[TierShift]

@mod: given the way Ghatokaca described his role, how would a standard redirect resolve?

In theory, a standard redirect would succeed if it targeted a dead player Ghatokaca could successfully target.

Cat, this shows the redirect wouldn't work.

[TierShift]

But it's definitely not a reason NOT to lynch someone

Lalalalaaaa
Thanks for the read tho
I'm getting my ghato read finished today.

[TierShift]

Reck, in all honesty. Do you think cat is scum here?

[TierShift]

The thing bothering me about ghatokaca is that they haven't done anything. At all. As a hydra with two pretty good heads.

[TierShift]

@Cat/Tier
If Nacho is normally a good player I think f the claim and he is scum here. Reck's flailing defence is not pinging me as scummy, I disagree with a lot of what he says but I can buy him not having a care in the world and just not being invested in the game until now and some of it sounds like stuff that makes sense from your pov if you are town in a situation where you know a play is going to bad so you try to justify it to the rest of town as a bad play in general because that's what you believe at the time it's happening, it's something I've used to mislynch people, more than I can buy a good player behaving like Ghato has done as town during this whole game and today in particular.

that's exactly my problem with ghato. And my problem with lynching reck.

TSO, the gameplan could have been him having a game-ending ability.

[TierShift]

Reck, in all honesty. Do you think cat is scum here?

Question still stands. Have you actually read the game?

[TierShift]

I'm going for NL.

[TierShift]

VOTE: no lynch
I can simply not believe this will end the game. I simply cannot.

[TierShift]

I liked this game and am glad that I made the rational decision not to lynch!
Thanks for modding!

[TierShift]

uh, where did she?

[TierShift]

Fakehammers are a mostly useless tool. It's like the fake dayvig, in that respect. Perhaps a tad better, but still super easy to manipulate. Chances of catching scum are lower than dismissing scum for their 'obviously town'-reaction. No good scum will be caught. You won't learn shit.

[TierShift]

Not unsportsmanlike in any way though. Mostly indicative of mediocre scumhunting.

[TierShift]

Some people are smart. Everyone else is a genuis. My god I'm stupid I don't deserve to live. This is the logic you just used. Sure good scumplayers will not be caught, this can be said for almost any gambit you cam think of, and agreed it's a low % play, this does not mean it's useless when used on Kthxbye when he is going to get lynched anyway, the fact we misred his reaction and went ahead with the lynch is our mistake.

No, this is not true. You can definitely catch good scum with a good gambit, fakehammering just isn't one. It's nothing against you, but it's just something that does little good (likelier to do harm). If someone is going to get lynched anyway, why does the gambit matter?

[TierShift]

Pre-in, ffery! Tarot was awesme!

[TierShift]

Don't even talk about it, still mad at alduskkel...
DAMN THAT WAS SOME OBVIOUS SCUMTEAM

[TierShift]

Ooh, just realised that my availability might depend on team mafia. Will let you know.