Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[killapenwin]

So rude.. You could have at least waited for me to 'ready' before voting :/

[killapenwin]

I see we have all just descended into throwing out random votes with no explanation, I was just about to vote on dodgy and with the same reasoning but that damn vettrock beat me to it. Either that or he is playing Jedi mind tricks on me, which would be rather devious of him. I am watching you little green dwarf.

[killapenwin]

A haiku with truth:

Once upon a time,
Tean voted for a penguin,
due to being scum.

[killapenwin]

I see we have all just descended into throwing out random votes with no explanation, I was just about to vote on dodgy and with the same reasoning but that damn vettrock beat me to it. Either that or he is playing Jedi mind tricks on me, which would be rather devious of him. I am watching you little green dwarf.

So youre criticizing people for giving a lack of explanation in RVS, then say you were just about to vote dodgy for the same reasoning someone else gave?
VOTE: Killapenwin.

@eyestott: You mean me pointing out what everyone is doing and then saying I not going to because someone already posted the thing I was going to say to join in with the random voting?

You seem pretty quick to throw a vote on me without even questioning me first, I see that as more scummy than town.

I am not sure if people even know what a haiku is and at this stage of the game I don't think anyone is going to have a strong read on Tean's alignment after 2 posts. So no, I do not know if Tean is scum or not but similarly to Eyestott I wouldn't look favourably on Tean's were to continue his vote on me simply for his lack of reasoning.

Clearly any attempt at banter I have tried to make has failed miserably so I will just be serious from now on.

[killapenwin]

As you clearly have not bothered to read what I have been writing and because I find your posts condescending:

vote: Tean

[killapenwin]

Seeing that penwin is humbly requesting for reasons upon why I voted his sorry ding dong, I will be glad to oblige.

Originally I simply voted the penguins as an RVS. No harm no fowl. Just seeing if I can net some sort of reaction, and reaction is what he gave.

The pengling thusly replies with a post claiming that because I voted him, I am scum. An odd claim, seeing that he fails to even place a vote on my head. Why, may I ask would you not vote for someone after clearly stating that they are scum?

The plot thickens when Stott adds his votes and calls out these problems. Pengdong replies saying that Stott's vote is scummy aswell, and without good reason. Now there are at least two people that Pengin is calling scummy and yet he still is hesitant to vote for either one of them.

I believe his actions so far centers around himself. He is being super defensive, and not once has he even tried to scum hunt. To reinforce this idea please look at his posts:

Post #54: Odd post commenting on RVS. The diction of this posts (particularly of the word 'decending') suggests that he frowns upon RVS. Yet he follows it up by saying he wanted to RVS someone else, but someone beat him to it. Besides the hypocritical content, he is also saying that he is hesitant to place a vote on top of another's. This is suggesting that he didn't really want to draw too much attention (which, looking at the votes against him, pretty much backfired).

Post #56: His first scum read. Coincidentally it's a read on someone who voted against him.

Post #88: His second scum read. Again, it's a read on someone who voted against him.

These posts clearly state that penguin is focus on the defensive and has not once scum hunted. Definitely not townie behaviour. I'm going to take off my gloves and say this is pretty dang scummy.

Another interesting thing to note is that he has more of a problem with the RVS votes against him rather than the one on the others. He calls me and Stott scummy for 'RVS voting' against him, yet what about Aneninen? What about the rest of the people who RVSed? It is a coincidence that he is only calling out the people who voted against him? I think not.

To me, it seems his play so far is "everyone who calls me scummy is scum."

Because of the reasons stated above, I think the Penguin is scummy

If you bothered to read what I wrote before this post you would see me explain that the haiku post was just joking around @vett make sure you read that, too.

RVS is clearly a bull shit way of excusing yourself of throwing votes widely without having to justifying your reason, only giving reason after the fact is bull shit too.

It is not scummy to ask for a reason why someone has voted on you. I even said (before this post) I wouldn't look favourably if you were to keep your vote on me and you have chosen to do so and added in this condescending post where you colourfully address me as:
pengling (making me out as an infant)
pengdong (clearly just an insult)
and use of 'the' penguin just adds to making this post smarmy as hell.

I really can't see why a townie would be this smarmy in his post with such little information to go on, it's like you are just artificially creating something out of nothing, which is what scum would do. Townies would ask questions / investigate more.

If you feel I was being defensive then here are two reasons why:
1) The person who gets the most votes early on is usually the one who ends up lynched especially in the early stages.
2) Calling someone out for their reasoning behind a vote isn't defensive.
3) I saw a potential bandwagon forming on me.
4) I am actually of the belief that putting a lot of votes out early is bad as it makes scums life easier a) for bandwagoning, b) hiding (people focussing on votes rather than hunting)

[killapenwin]

throwing votes wildly*

[killapenwin]

I see we have all just descended into throwing out random votes with no explanation, I was just about to vote on dodgy and with the same reasoning but that damn vettrock beat me to it. Either that or he is playing Jedi mind tricks on me, which would be rather devious of him. I am watching you little green dwarf.

So youre criticizing people for giving a lack of explanation in RVS, then say you were just about to vote dodgy for the same reasoning someone else gave?
VOTE: Killapenwin.

1: @eyestott: You mean me pointing out what everyone is doing and then saying I not going to because someone already posted the thing I was going to say to join in with the random voting?

2: You seem pretty quick to throw a vote on me without even questioning me first, I see that as more scummy than town.

3:I am not sure if people even know what a haiku is and at this stage of the game I don't think anyone is going to have a strong read on Tean's alignment after 2 posts. So no, I do not know if Tean is scum or not but similarly to Eyestott I wouldn't look favourably on Tean's were to continue his vote on me simply for his lack of reasoning.

4: Clearly any attempt at banter I have tried to make has failed miserably so I will just be serious from now on.

1: I didnt understand this. Why should what other people are doing in RVS prevent you from doing things?
2: We were barely out of RVS at that time. My vote was only slightly serious, but having seen your response, I'm happy with it. Why is it scummy, and better yet, if you think I'm scummy, why arent you voting me? I actually find you scummy for just calling me scummy, but doing nothing. Its passive aggressive behaviour, which is pretty scummy.
3: Hilariously
Socio-economic
Hippopotamus
Both of your scumreads (which you havent voted) are on people who have voted you. Additionally, youre passing off Tean's vote as one with a "lack of reasoning". And again with passive aggressiveness, but this time its masking a threat.
4: Where have you made "banter"? Or are you trying to pass off scummy behavior as banter?
"Nah guys, when i said that, i was just joking!"

1. As I said he posted what I was going to throw out as joke vote as that seemed to be what the rest of you were doing at that stage.
2. Your vote on me looked like it was intended to start a bandwagon (it put me in the lead) and you never quizzed me you just decided to put me ahead of everyone else and as it had little reasoning I thought it was scummy.
3. I only get 1 vote and would like to use it wisely so I will put it on who I feel deserves to be voted for. 'Revenge voting' can also look scummy, too.
I would rather put my vote out there with a reason as to why I am voting that way than to not.
When you don't give a reason you deny that person and others the chance to challenge your vote, if we allow this to happen it gives scum a much higher chance of hiding behind poor reasoned votes. It is better for town to have as much info as possible to work on.
4. I tried a little bit with 'jedi mind tricks' post but like I say those posts were poorly received so I stopped.

[killapenwin]

Analysis so far:

1) killapenwin - myself (town)

2) BlueBloodedToffee - (null) has nothing on his ISO definitely need to see him posting more

3) eyestott - (null leaning scum) I don't feel I can be impartial given that we have already butted heads a little but I think his actions rather than his posts have been poor such as jumping on bandwagons as placeholder votes, which at such an early stage I don't think is very good.

4) Heartless -(Null) another player who is just skating by with nothing in their ISO and not really contributing much.

5) davesaz - (null leaning town) His posts have been pretty well reasoned, I'm not sharing the same vibes Mastin's has on him as scum especially looking at his (ISO) I can't see anything telling. He is being perceptive and trying to pick up flaws in peoples posts and find myself agreeing with most of what he says. I'm not sure what to think of him claiming so early but it is possible that he began feeling the pressure on himself.

6) copper223 - (probable town) He is being inquisitive, breaking down posts, interrogating inconsistences and pushing for answers and not just following a crowd.

7) vettrock - (null) nothing substantial really sticks out when looking his ISO there is content but nothing to suggest their alignment.

8) Aneninen- (probable town) a bit slow to start but the few posts he has are good.

9) dodgy56 - (probable town) is fishing for information, creating reads and asking plenty of good questions and interacting well.

10) Wickedestjr (probable town) - I don't share his views on davesaz but he is definitely trying to push for information, sharing views and seeking to move the game forward. They are coming from a town mentality.

11) beastcharizard- (null) Not really much content to go on, they haven't given much insight on their thoughts of other players except maybe wicked, who I think is town.

12) Tean Samargo - (scum) I really do not like their general tone and attitude towards me, I find it arrogant and dismissive, even their latest post can be taken that way:

There's nothing to go by in your reads list. All of your reads are null, mixed and you seem unsure of yourself. It seems like it's all rushed and poorly made. Odd, seeing that you were one of the more active players in the forum at the moment. What were you doing all this time? Surely you must have a more solid read by now?

I feel like this list is pretty much forced, and you're trying to feign scum hunting.
I think this would be a much more solid shelf for my vote.

Vote: davesaz

My case on Penguin is stated in my previous post against him. Seeing that the vote so far has only managed to provoke him, I feel like a coherent discussion will not be possible at this moment.
Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GnLDJAgrws

notice in the last paragraph where he chooses to say "a coherent discussion" instead of just "a discussion" as though my previous posts so far have just been jibberish and not worth reading? That is on top of the overall message of that sentence that he has already decided he is not interested in discussing things with me.

13) mastin2 (null leaning town)- Having played my last game with Mastin, holding off on her vote and holding her cards close to her chest is consistent with her form of play. But I would take her judgement with a pinch of salt rather than trust it outright. I suspect she has a couple of strong town reads and maybe 1 or 2 gut feelings on scum and is just biding her time to see if they become stronger or weaker.

[killapenwin]

so you are absent from the thread for 48 hours and when you come back this is your only contribution? a meaningless piece of drivel?

like seriously?

if you are town lift you game because at the moment you arent helping anyone. all you are doing is making it easier for scum to lurk.

How do you know I'm not scum lurking?

VOTE: Dodgy

I didn't miss this, BBT is inactive for the first few days and as soon as his name is mentioned he OMGUS votes Dodgy and only 2minutes after Dodgy criticism him?? It is not as though he wasn't aware the game had started, he has just given the impression that he has been lurking without contributing. Whilst lurking is not necessarily scum indicative, I feel that if he were town he would have contributed on at least one of the many posts or arguments that have happened so far. At nearly 300 posts in and only this to show for himself I am changing my read on him from null to probable scum.

[killapenwin]

@eyestott it is because your votes so far have just followed Tean's, which looks a bit sheepish. Also, Tean has only voted on players that have been voted on already so either him or you (maybe both) are trying to create bandwagons or give them some momentum in my opinion.

As Aneninen said, it is odd that Tean would call you out for sheeping when he himself is being a catalyst for bandwagons.

[killapenwin]

Tean's latest:

@Killapenwin

@eyestott it is because your votes so far have just followed Tean's, which looks a bit sheepish. Also, Tean has only voted on players that have been voted on already so either him or you (maybe both) are trying to create bandwagons or give them some momentum in my opinion.

As Aneninen said, it is odd that Tean would call you out for sheeping when he himself is being a catalyst for bandwagons.

To start with, it'd be nice if you wouldn't lie when trying to cast suspicion on me. I was the first person who had a non-rvs vote on you when the game started and you should know that. I don't appreciate you lying to try to make me sound worse.

On top of that, I don't like how you're ignoring my posts. You seem to have outright missed #231, and I'd like you to try answering my questions, not just blindly calling me scum because I'm rude.

@Wickedestjr

@eyestott
I find your vote on dav as rather opportunistic. I feel a little bit uncomfortable with my vote along side yours honestly. Right now it feels as if you are sheeping the biggest bandwagon.

Now this is a weird thing for

you

to say! Especially considering you cast the vote for davesaz immediately preceding eyestott’s vote (so you weren’t much faster to hop aboard). It also seems convenient how you start to cast doubt on the wagon, ‘coincidentally’, just after it starts to lose momentum.

Could you show me where I started to cast doubt on a wagon? I'm not seeing it. Also, I didn't dislike eyestott's vote for jumping on the wagon, it was for jumping on it with shitty reasoning. He finds dav his top scumread but he doesn't vote until dav isn't at L-2 because he's scared of dav getting hammered? If he thinks dav is scum why the fuck would he be so concerned about him getting lynched?

I believe you are mistaken, you were in fact the second person to vote for me so don't call me a liar on that or making it up.

VOTE: Killapen

@Wicked
BBT jumping on things is more likely to be town and Mastin starting with a pseudo "confirm post analysis" on what I thought were syncs on confirmation time and words used (I missed the ready reference in the PM tbf.) is consistent with my mental image of her as a town player.

A haiku with love:

I don't like penguins.
Go back to Antarctica.

Vote: killapenwin

You want me to comment on all your posts then? Just have your iso open in another tab.

#34 //you saying ready
#55 // a haiku vote on me, no reason given
#58 // claiming the vote is now real but no reasons given beyond a generic 'not liking my posts'
#59 // nothing
#93 // already commented on this crude attempt to make me look insignificant, though I didn't respond to it in it's entirety so for the final paragraphs: no I can't vote everyone who does a RVS vote. I thought that would be obvious so I skated over that nonsensical argument. You may notice how copper put a vote on me and yet I didn't call him scum?
#97 // a poke at Vettrock to scumhunt, mute- could just be filler
#163 // a poke at BBT being inactive, though given how hard BBT is buddying you right now this could have just been a pre-emptive post to distance yourself from him
#174 // more trying to distance yourself from him even though he still hasn't said anything
#182 // comment on Dave's read list being mostly null, glaringly obvious to everyone so not much value in it.
#189 // The first half-reasoned vote you do and it is on Dave, I could have liked this post except you had to sully it by saying you can't have a coherent discussion with me.
#191 // a vote count
#231 // criticises Dave for no strong reads though really you haven't given much away yourself, just tunnelling me and a few comments on 3 others players some of whom have just been inactive. You make a point against Eyestott for sheeping votes and yet, he has been following your votes??
Then you try to justify your name calling by citing some obscure youtube video, like it was just a joke and it was all ok.
Well guess what? No. If you think it is bad for someone to have a vote on you because they didn't get your joke then that would make you a hypocrite because that is exactly why you made your 'RVS' vote a real one with me.

Then criticism of my 'then' latest post which I will respond to:
Your interaction with me has been poor, I know I am town so for you to be voting me on the back of what I have only seen as very weak reasoning I do find scummy. Many others also happen to find Eyestott's actions to be questionable, too (including yourself). You obviously didn't notice Copper put a vote on me but in my read of him I didn't call him scummy so I am not just attacking those voting for me. One or both of you tried a bandwagon me so I would be happy to put a vote on either of you since there is a fair chance one of you will come out scum.
I think you really are overselling your contribution to town and the above is evidence of that.

#233 // asks copper about playing on other sites?
#235 // revokes request.
#305 // Already evidenced the part about me not lying at the top of this post, #231 is answered above and here is my reason for not answering it: I was getting fed up of having to tackle your distracting posts and didn't really want to do one of these long time consuming posts so that I might actually have time to get some reads on some other people. But since you are kicking up a fuss for me not responding, here it is.

BBT is seems to be buddying you hard, possible scum team?

[killapenwin]

@tean what do you think of mastin's holding her reads 'close to her chest'?

(since your vote on dave is for not giving his reads away) I think he picked you up on that but you never responded, make sure you do.

[killapenwin]

Ok I have caught up to, @wicked no you are not insane, I do not know why BBT is trying so hard to defend Tean and buddying up to him.

@Aneninen sorry I am not 100% sure how to link multiple posts I think it has to do with the "Q+ button but I think that only allows you to do posts from a single page, whereas my comments covered Tean's posts over the whole thread. If you have Tean's ISO in 1 tab and my post in another it is not to difficult to cross-reference.

I am kind of feeling this Eyestott wagon and mostly because I don't like his indecisive style of play, it seems too noncommittal. It is almost as if he is justifying an excuse at the point of voting so that he can defend himself when things don't look too good for him if he makes a mistake for example. If you are making a point against someone you should be trying to convince others they are scum typically in a format like this:

Person .... is scum because ......(read/reason).. and ideally ->see this post ..(evidence/post)...

or at least in some format similar to that. When I read Eyestott's posts he just seems to be indifferent. I find a person who does that to be difficult to read, a player is either scum or not you may have conflicting points but at some point you are going to have to decide.

I played my last game against scumEyestott and he did the same that game, which is partly why I think the wagon on him is a better choice than the others proposed so far. I'll hold off voting for him right now as I would like to hear more from a few players mastin/vettrock/heartless first.

[killapenwin]

Thanks for the tip Aneninen I will try use it in future posts that I am referencing.

[killapenwin]

Ok I have caught up to, @wicked no you are not insane, I do not know why BBT is trying so hard to defend Tean and buddying up to him.

@Aneninen sorry I am not 100% sure how to link multiple posts I think it has to do with the "Q+ button but I think that only allows you to do posts from a single page, whereas my comments covered Tean's posts over the whole thread. If you have Tean's ISO in 1 tab and my post in another it is not to difficult to cross-reference.

I am kind of feeling this Eyestott wagon and mostly because I don't like his indecisive style of play, it seems too noncommittal. It is almost as if he is justifying an excuse at the point of voting so that he can defend himself when things don't look too good for him if he makes a mistake for example. If you are making a point against someone you should be trying to convince others they are scum typically in a format like this:

Person .... is scum because ......(read/reason).. and ideally ->see this post ..(evidence/post)...

or at least in some format similar to that. When I read Eyestott's posts he just seems to be indifferent. I find a person who does that to be difficult to read, a player is either scum or not you may have conflicting points but at some point you are going to have to decide.

I played my last game against scumEyestott and he did the same that game, which is partly why I think the wagon on him is a better choice than the others proposed so far. I'll hold off voting for him right now as I would like to hear more from a few players mastin/vettrock/heartless first.

Meeting turned out to be a quick one, so I get to post more.

This post looks so town up till the last sentence. If you're confident in the read, why wait for other players? The wagon was only L-3 or so at this point, if I counted right.

Precisely this reason, there wasn't a recent vote count and I saw Eyestott had a few votes his way, Mastin put in a few posts whilst I was catching up in the thread and whilst I was writing that post, but I still wanted to hear more from other players as I wanted to go into day2 with a better read on some of my current null players.

The discussion is going well so I am happy I didn't cause a premature lynch. I am fairly confident Eyestott is scum and will vote for him as it has been pointed out that my vote on Tean isn't going to go anywhere. I tribute this to him dropping off the radar by not posting much you will see in my read of his posts that I do not think he has contributed much for town.

vote: eyestott (L-1)

If you have a claim to make eyestott now is the time to do it.

[killapenwin]

oh right I forgot your vote copper, apologies.

eyestott is at L -2

[killapenwin]

@BlueBloodedToffee

Well, I would say that Killa’s defensiveness means that he’s more concerned about maintaining his image. I don’t like a lot of his posts. I don’t consider him to be hunting scum. His “reads” seem more influenced by salt, seeing as how me and eyestott are easily listed as scum (and what a coincidence! We both voted for him).

Oh, and my favorite part was when he blatantly threatened that "things wouldn't end up well" if I continued voting for him.

@copper

Do you mean that last discussion or their interaction in general?

@penwin

Opinions on mastin? I don’t like how people are practically idolizing her and her actions. I think most of her actions are cryptic as fuck, and I'm not sure why some people are blindly following her

@Dav

@dav
The point of my case against you dav is that you have been floating around the forum posting nearly daily and yet your strongest read is simply a 'mixed' read. While I'm not asking for a super strong 'that man is scum' read, I find it suspicious that you don't even have a weak scum read. It is as if you weren't really looking for scum until that point. That in my opinion is pretty dang scummy.

This is partly accurate and partly completely wrong. Your observation on activity is quite accurate. I have been active, in this thread or elsewhere, pretty much constantly when I have free time. There were a couple of times I would have wanted to post more in-depth (Thursday morning and Saturday morning) but could not because of RL obligations.

The completely wrong part is the interpretation of why my reads are useless, and even more so the analysis of what that means for alignment. If I were scum, I could toss out accusations willy nilly and pick one that sticks. It would even be beneficial for my team to toss weak scum reads in the direction of my teammates, and buddy the heck out of a couple of town to cast suspicion on them. I'm not taking the easy route -- that should tell you something.

By your own admission, you weren't thinking rationally at that time. In that state, I'm not sure that you'd be making the optimal scum plays regardless in that state.

-Faustbyte

Explain that scummy bum chum quote you directed towards BBT. I just ISO'd myself and never said that.

[killapenwin]

Copper, 553 – for your information: I was planning to mislynch Davesaz in that game but he claimed a town-PR. (And that claim was detrimental to my already-bad state.) As for KillerPenguin: I think Tean is scum so, if Penguin is scum too, their early fight has been a faking. What do you think? Is it possible?

I think it is unlikely, Killa is looking a lot worse than Tean now.

Cooper, 568 – that is wrong!!!! In this setup there may be another Tracker too! If there is another tracker, claiming it is VERY bad for the town! It's simple math. Check the setup.

The second tracker would be a 1-shot, you are making the same mistake Eyes did, if there is a full tracker out there he should absolutely claim.

I'm not sure how you can say that. Tean dropping off the radar doesn't make me scum. Didn't you practically ask trackers to out themselves in day 1?

[killapenwin]

@BBT:

Ok I have caught up to, @wicked no you are not insane, I do not know why BBT is trying so hard to defend Tean and buddying up to him.

@Aneninen sorry I am not 100% sure how to link multiple posts I think it has to do with the "Q+ button but I think that only allows you to do posts from a single page, whereas my comments covered Tean's posts over the whole thread. If you have Tean's ISO in 1 tab and my post in another it is not to difficult to cross-reference.

I am kind of feeling this Eyestott wagon and mostly because I don't like his indecisive style of play, it seems too noncommittal. It is almost as if he is justifying an excuse at the point of voting so that he can defend himself when things don't look too good for him if he makes a mistake for example. If you are making a point against someone you should be trying to convince others they are scum typically in a format like this:

Person .... is scum because ......(read/reason).. and ideally ->see this post ..(evidence/post)...

or at least in some format similar to that. When I read Eyestott's posts he just seems to be indifferent. I find a person who does that to be difficult to read, a player is either scum or not you may have conflicting points but at some point you are going to have to decide.

I played my last game against scumEyestott and he did the same that game, which is partly why I think the wagon on him is a better choice than the others proposed so far. I'll hold off voting for him right now as I would like to hear more from a few players mastin/vettrock/heartless first.

excuses mastin 127
133 the last sentence
181 last sentence
185 last sentence
194 second sentence of first point <- this is specifically what I was thinking of.
278 in the spoiler section in between his 924 and 82 quotes
325 second and third sentence
378 last sentence
383 <- this is also what I was thinking of, why doesn't he just say he is scum?

Do you understand what I mean by down playing his reads?

[killapenwin]

In general, I've found the best cure for that is for day to end and us to have a flip, so on that note, probably gonna switch to copper, but...well, I just don't know. I have no thoughts on town or scum. But this isn't null. This isn't ambivalence. Null is there's thoughts but no read. (Except true null, when there's no posting thus nothing.) Ambivalence is feeling both ways. But copper right now is absolute absence of thought.

I suppose there's some ambivalence in joining, in that I half-expect I'll regret it and I'm half-expecting I'll regret

not

joining it. But I'm not sure how to better explain it than that.

Really, Mastin? My vote on Eyestott at the moment is for the exact same wishy-washy shit read that this is. I have no problem with the choice of target but your going to have to qualify it better than that.

After all you did say in 432that copper was cemented as town, so what changed?

[killapenwin]

Oh please Copper, don't act like your current vote on me isn't anything more than an attempt to curry favour with Heartless. You are using their read on me to try sway their vote on me and to protect Eyestott at the same time.

Heartless vote:

oh i'm dancin' with myself
oh i'm
dancin'
with
myself
well there's nothin' to

lose

and there's nothin' to

prove

i'll be dancin with myself

tth is swamped right now so i'm taking executive action
reaffirming
VOTE: copper

Copper's borrowed logic:

@Eyes
I have re-read what TTH said about you vs Dodgy and scum often labelling svt arguments as tvt is something I can agree with, and based on the number of players that latched onto the read that both you and Dodgy are scummy, I think, assuming you are town and din't just get lucky with the claim, that your scumread on Dodgy may be town OMGUS.

My preffered scumread, going off of Eyes town, is Killa, that L-1 while the idea of you and Aneninen being a team was floating around looks like a rushed attempt to end the day, your post to me seems more of an attempt to make me look scummy than to actually try and figure out something, it also assumes I consider Tean town, something that never was implied, but maybe something you already know.

VOTE: Killapenwin

If Eyes is town and Killa is scum, a likely team is Killa, Aneninen and Dave.

Heartless comment on anchoring:

you know, actually, i'm looking at the vote counts and i think tean is a scum anchor wagon. it's been static from the beginning and it's momentum is just PLOP sitting there.

(referring to me and aneninen)

My vote on Eyestott, I bolded the part where I acknowledge Heartless post:

Ok I have caught up to, @wicked no you are not insane, I do not know why BBT is trying so hard to defend Tean and buddying up to him.

@Aneninen sorry I am not 100% sure how to link multiple posts I think it has to do with the "Q+ button but I think that only allows you to do posts from a single page, whereas my comments covered Tean's posts over the whole thread. If you have Tean's ISO in 1 tab and my post in another it is not to difficult to cross-reference.

I am kind of feeling this Eyestott wagon and mostly because I don't like his indecisive style of play, it seems too noncommittal. It is almost as if he is justifying an excuse at the point of voting so that he can defend himself when things don't look too good for him if he makes a mistake for example. If you are making a point against someone you should be trying to convince others they are scum typically in a format like this:

Person .... is scum because ......(read/reason).. and ideally ->see this post ..(evidence/post)...

or at least in some format similar to that. When I read Eyestott's posts he just seems to be indifferent. I find a person who does that to be difficult to read, a player is either scum or not you may have conflicting points but at some point you are going to have to decide.

I played my last game against scumEyestott and he did the same that game, which is partly why I think the wagon on him is a better choice than the others proposed so far. I'll hold off voting for him right now as I would like to hear more from a few players mastin/vettrock/heartless first.

Meeting turned out to be a quick one, so I get to post more.

This post looks so town up till the last sentence. If you're confident in the read, why wait for other players? The wagon was only L-3 or so at this point, if I counted right.

Precisely this reason, there wasn't a recent vote count and I saw Eyestott had a few votes his way, Mastin put in a few posts whilst I was catching up in the thread and whilst I was writing that post, but I still wanted to hear more from other players as I wanted to go into day2 with a better read on some of my current null players.

The discussion is going well so I am happy I didn't cause a premature lynch. I am fairly confident Eyestott is scum and

will vote for him as it has been pointed out that my vote on Tean isn't going to go anywhere.

I tribute this to him dropping off the radar by not posting much you will see in my read of his posts that I do not think he has contributed much for town.

vote: eyestott (L-1)

If you have a claim to make eyestott now is the time to do it.

If Heartless post was really on to something I wouldn't have made reference to it there.

[killapenwin]

@ copper I'm not following your sudden halt on the Eyestott wagon or you lamenting his early role claim (that you were partly responsible for) only for you to ask that more Trackers out themselves??

It simply doesn't make sense, it is just looking like a complete breakdown in logic or a possible slip.

[killapenwin]

@copper what was your reason for abandoning the eyestott wagon? I don't see a reason for it just a change of to vote Mastin with no reason.

@heartless I am not believing eyestotts claim and doubt he will survive the night if he is town, I also think his death could shed some light on potential scum. I have not seen a vote count in a while and am happy to vote copper, whichever is more viable as a lynch.

[killapenwin]

vote: copper

If I am picturing you voting me for Heartless's reason then it is because you have not given any other reasons.
760 is my reason.

[killapenwin]

My vote on Eyestott, I bolded the part where I acknowledge Heartless post:

The discussion is going well so I am happy I didn't cause a premature lynch. I am fairly confident Eyestott is scum and

will vote for him as it has been pointed out that my vote on Tean isn't going to go anywhere.

I tribute this to him dropping off the radar by not posting much you will see in my read of his posts that I do not think he has contributed much for town.

vote: eyestott (L-1)

If you have a claim to make eyestott now is the time to do it.

If Heartless post was really on to something I wouldn't have made reference to it there.

Two things I would like to note here. First Killa moved off of the Tean wagon because it wasn't going anywhere, but seemed to stay on the Eyestott wagon until his recent move to copper) that also wasn't going anywhere. Could be just the timing of when the post were mean, but it sorta jumped out at me a bit.

The second item was for those complaining about eyestott and his early claim, clearly killa called for eyestott to make the claim, even though there was not intent to hammer.

Killa slides a bit more towards scummy.

First paragraph:
1) I'm not doing the vote counts and only check when people have a lot of votes.
2) My vote on Tean was going nowhere fast, everyone was caught up in the Dave vs Eyestott and since Tean stopped posting, everyone forgot about him.
3) I want to lynch scum so why would I quickly change my vote off someone I think is scum? If I voted someone it is because I think they are scum, if that vote isn't going to go anywhere why can't I wait a while to see if it picks up again? The only reason I would change is if I had another scummy player who is a more viable lynch.

Explain the second paragraph.

Are you seriously trying to make me look scummy for having the guy claim moments before he potentially gets lynched? I'm not the one that ran up the 5 or 6 other votes on him to put him at L-1, so fuck you for trying to put that shit solely on me, he probably wouldn't have been alive if I didn't remind him to claim.

How about you start contributing some actual reads rather than some tit bit inaccurate notes. How do you know I wouldn't have hammered eyestott given the chance? Many others thought he was pretty scummy at that time.

Speaking of intention were is your contribution to the game so far?
Have you followed through on that scum hunting you promised to do?
At the moment I mostly just seeing conservative filler posts from you. 658 is about your first attempt to actually give reads and they are mostly null, which begs the question how at over 600 posts in do you not have anything more than weak reads? Some of the 'reads' are not even justified.
696 you excuse your poor read list
the posts that follow are more 'I can't make judgements this early/D1' and yet you can say with certainty that Eyestott is town? Without even citing a reason as to why?

It is easy to criticise when you do nothing to contribute, I see your RVS vote has been stuck on dodgy since post 53 it doesn't even look like you have made much of an attempt to follow the game.

[killapenwin]

@copper I'm not sure what question you wanted me to answer that you haven't already tried answering yourself.

with regards to changing to Mastin I still don't get it.

In post 432 mastin is thinking you are town
In post 438 you are thinking mastin is Town,

In 469 you are not liking Heartless' reaction to Mastin
Then you trust 488 ,(which admittedly is a good post by heartless) but by that point Mastin had already said the vote on Dave had been a reaction test so if she believes eyestott is scum why wouldn't she join that wagon if that was more likely to gain a lynch?

and then by 496 your voting Mastin.

If you didn't genuinely think eyestott was scum why was you on the wagon and why take the pace out of it if you could follow up on other scum the next day?

[killapenwin]

that last sentence should be:

If you didn't genuinely think eyestott was scum why was you on the wagon?
If you did think he was scum, why take the pace out of it if you could follow up on other scum the next day?

[killapenwin]

On 2 wagons:
Mastin2
BBT
killapenwin


Not on any of the wagons
Vettrock
Aneninen
beastcharizard

i think tean is scummier than most of these names. your approach isn't "lazy" it's "arbitrary and random"

Have you made a case for that?

I wonder if you read the whole post as well. The first paragraph is about

before today

. Yes, I've been lazy. I'd say there are some in the player list who have been even lazier. Just one more double standard to add to my list of reasons town is fucked up this game.

Pedit: @BBT, I specifically stated that I looked at peak wagon size in the official VC. The ones I quoted from are the only ones I looked at. There are probably other players who have been on more than one of the wagons at some point. However, you also are having problems reading the

whole content

of my post. I'm explicitly assuming that copper and eyestott are town with me, and therefore excluded from the list. If there is a fake claim (remember, I'm one of the few people who

doubted

both claims) then the whole analysis is meaningless.

This last paragraph I don't understand, by your own admission you don't trust your own read?

As for other peoples similar vote analysis going on. Pretty pointless right now given that we don't know anybody's alignment, I mean come on "let's assume these wagons were on town" WHY? It is a stupid premise to work from, after all the wagons were started due to actions others thought were scummy.

I think a good question to ask is why have 3 wagons failed?

[killapenwin]

I'm going to try a who is scum with dave and who is scum with eyes next and see if that gives a clearer picture.

So you are now reading eyes as scum??

[killapenwin]

So in effect, I have to vote the guy out who claimed tracker (who I previously put at L-1 and is the very thing you are voting me for) to prove to you that I am town?

[killapenwin]

sorry L - 2

[killapenwin]

Oh right I just noticed in them vote counts you have put both Dave and Eyes at L-2, isn't that similar to what you are voting me for?

[killapenwin]

When people start attacking me I read back through what they have written to try see if it is coming from a town or scum mindset, this often means I look for inconsistencies in their posts so yea I do come across as OMGUS but it doesn't make my arguments any less valid.

My reasons for changing votes has come from Heartless pressuring me to do so.

[killapenwin]

unvote

I will be going over thread soon, stating who I would be willing to vote for and giving a brief reason as to why. I will be including who I am not voting for and why, too.

[killapenwin]

My list as promised:
1) killapenwin myself, not going to vote on.
2) BlueBloodedToffee: his willingness to protect/buddy Tean based on meta, has clouded my judgement on his reads especially given his tagline on meta. I do however think his level of engagement in the thread is good and that he actively scumhunting, overall lean town, so he is not going to be voted on by me today.
3) eyestott: I doubt his tracker claim and find his 'weak' middle of the road reads annoying and think it is just camouflage to look town without ruffling too many feathers. His alignment could also be useful in uncovering scum given the level of interaction he has had with other players. I would vote him but I doubt he would be lynched today.
4) Heartless: I have seen good things from them, they are quizzing players developing read and scumhunting, I don't agree with all that they say but I do with most, my read on them is town so no vote.
5) davesaz: Mastin's early attack on him has had him on the defensive since the start of the game, she even admitted to it being a RVS vote and read test. As a result he has been battling half the players from the off without ever really being able move past this early tainted image. I haven't seen a compelling case made against him for why he is scum so for this reason he is probably not getting my vote today unless everyone voting him gives a credible reason for doing so.
6) copper223: In honesty he has been able to hold his own pretty well, he has given reasons for his actions and is giving his reads but there are parts of his arguments that just don't sit right with me. There is a question mark hanging over his slot for me, it would be a tough choice to make but if it came down to either a no lynch or hammer at deadline, I'd hammer. I won't be pushing for it though as I think there are better targets and if he really is vengeful, I doubt he will be around long.
7)vettrock has just been utterly useless and provided next to nothing in terms of reads, will back eyestott without reason but not shed light on any other player? All I have seen is excuses and no real attempt to engage actively with topics going on in the thread or to even generate his own reads. He claims he is a late game player but given the quality of his play so far I'm not so sure I would want to afford him the opportunity. I'd vote/hammer today.
8) Aneninen I think he last said he was having irl issues and wanted a replacement? But anyway my read on him is leaning town so I won't be voting him today.
9) dodgy56: something felt off with his interaction with eyestott, (I think it was him) I haven't examined him in great detail but if I see that there are quite a few votes going his way then I would look back at his interactions, nothing is jumping out at me about him at the moment so I'm not ruling a vote out.
10) Wickedestjr has being looking like town to me and his post analysis is pretty good so he won't be getting my vote.
11) beastcharizard is on the same level as vettrock for me, doing absolutely nothing of value for town and I find his lack of contribution is stifling town. Either get active or get out, I'd vote/hammer him today.
12) Tean Samargo: I haven't really changed my mind much on him, he seems to have just kept himself under the radar without drawing too much attention to himself, I get the impression he has just been fishing for some easy wagons. His later posts have been a bit better and I did agree with his Mastin post (that people just took her word on the dave wagon with no evidence) I don't think he has been too useful to town so far and would be comfortable to vote/hammer today.
13) mastin2: Hard to say really, I think she is town but I have a hard time believing in her reads mostly because they seem to be based on intuition rather than actual reasoning e.g. her using meta to determine alignment for a few players. If she backed up her reads with posts then I would be happier about her being town but a lot of it seems to be 'just trust me', which in a game of this nature is not something I do freely. I could vote but would need something substantial to go on.

To summarise:
I would vote/hammer today: Eyestott, copper, vettrock, beastcharizard, Tean
Others I would vote if a strong enough case was made: Dave, dodgy, Mastin.
Players I am not voting today: Myself, BBT, Heartless, Aneninen, wicked.

[killapenwin]

Ok, I am definitely not getting on this Dave wagon today, the case against him is weak and borne from him trying to defend himself since the beginning. I don't see this as credible reason to vote him much less lynch him.

Eyestott and Copper will be prime targets for scum tonight so if they are town they won't be around much longer anyway and there is no point giving scum less work to do.

I really don't like how BC has coasted almost the entire first day with nothing to show and I ask that the rest of you follow me in voting him.

vote:BeastCharizard

[killapenwin]

Wrong. Mastin screamed that he was town earlier and Copper vouched for him in 158

[killapenwin]

@heartless what about beastcharizard?

[killapenwin]

why wouldn't you vote him as an alternate to the other 3?

[killapenwin]

Given that Mastin blew a fuse defending him before any traction was gained on him, why would he need to?

[killapenwin]

2 Night kills, so we possibly have more than a mafia to worry about.

vote: beastcharizard

because it is as good a place as any to start.

@mastin what where the alleged scumtells that led you to vote dave in the first place?

Mod Edit: Fixed bold tags

[killapenwin]

2 Night kills, so we possibly have more than a mafia to worry about.

vote: beastcharizard

because it is as good a place as any to start.

@mastin what where the alleged scumtells that led you to vote dave in the first place?

Mod Edit: Fixed bold tags

thanks mod, I didn't have enough time to repost this morning.

VOTE: Heartless
You know too much this game. Mastin is also likely scum, I need to think about what Dodgy's death means and why Killa and Wicked just opened up on Beast in particular.

I am pretty sure I am not going to let a player say nothing of value all of day 1 and not press him day 2. Also the reason I am voting him is one of common sense, you seem to be soft defending him here by criticising the vote, which would be the second time you have softly defended him. 58.

Mastin vouched for him pretty hard too and based on nothing. Given that Dave flipped town there are question marks over Mastins' alignment but I'm not ready to push that until she explains herself. I see a potential scum team of BeastChar/Copper/Mastin and out of the 3 I'm going to press the one who has said nothing.

It doesn't make sense to lynch you today given that you are 'vengeful' because if you are not killed tonight you are going to be a definite target on tomorrows day lynch.

Mastin I am having doubts on and so lynching BeastChar is going to be a good tell on two players I have believe have questionable actions.

Sorry for being away since my 669.

(1) Because of that, I must have missed a couple of things here, and I think there were some questions I left unanswered. If they're still relevant, ask them again, please!

(2) How much time did we have 'till Deadline before the lynch Yesterday?

(3) I don't think that both of the kills have been strange. Eyestott has been no surprise, after all he claimed a PR. Dodgy? That's an interesting question. Did he claim or crumb anything?

(4) Also, this is important: if you're a Vig and we fail to lynch a scum Today,

do not kill

Tonight unless you're 100% sure that you kill a scum!

(2) There was about 18hours left, when copper hammered.

(3) Eyestott was an obvious target after he claimed PR, the Dodgy lynch might be worth looking into.

(4) Agreed.

VOTE: Heartless
You know too much this game. Mastin is also likely scum, I need to think about what Dodgy's death means and why Killa and Wicked just opened up on Beast in particular.

You usually throw suspicion on me because I'm not right enough, now it's that I'm too right?! I'm surprised this kind of pride is blinding you.

I think Anti is putting

way

too much stock into meta and AtE to read mastin here. I also think his good reads went tragically un-sheeped while his bad ones were. killa and Tean come to mind.
VOTE: mastin2

I am not following the point you are making about me and Tean at the end here.

@TTH
More like when you suspect me it's hard to be objective...

Anti was driving the mislynches yesterday, he pushed a little on me and super hard on Dave at the end, you were not scumreading either and you previously made that really good post about Eyes and Dodgy that made me townread you, but funnily enough the vote on Dave stayed. That's very not TTH, I would expect you to come in and change it if you did not agree, instead by the time you started to express doubts the damage had been done. What Anti said about our interaction being sketchy, as a means to scumread me, is also true, where is our usual banter in this game?

This is how I see it (admittedly I couldn't check if Dodgy clumsily crumbed because of work, but barring that) the Eyestott kill is the optimal scum kill, the Dodgy kill is the SK messing with scum, I think Mastin is the SK and thinks Anti is scum, that comment about his scumhunting being fake as fuck when he is not town seems game related and the way they were discussing who to go on at the end of the day does not look like town interaction.

Killapen is back to being scummy (my reads this game have been embarassing), he asked me yesterday what he needed to do to prove himself, why would you say that to the guy you think is fake claiming? Also Beast? Yesterday was at the very least a mafia sided or more likely a mafia driven town, the guy was lurking, why is he suspect numero 1? Does not compute.

As for the third I just got negative vibes from Wicked's first post, is beast the designated mislynch for today?

I said Eyestott was fakeclaiming, I don't think I have made much reference to your vengeful claim, possibly a little bit in 1011. Show me which post of mine you mean because I said nothing about your vengeful claim from the point you exposed it 797 to the 'what do I need to prove myself' proposition 885, which was my take on the logic behind the argument you made against me at that time. I feel this post is quite misleading of what actually happened.

Whilst we are on your vengeful claim, I don't see why not believing it outright is a scummy thing to do. I do have some doubts about it (there is no way I can know for certain), which is why if you are not killed tonight I think you will be a lead runner for the day lynch tomorrow (depending what happens to day of course).

@mastin what where the alleged scumtells that led you to vote dave in the first place?

Well, it

was

just general overall scumminess, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I want to make a special note to Dave since I'm unlikely to remember 'til postgame where I should be telling him:

Dave

, I was gone during the last day of deadline yesterday. But had I not been...I'd have unvoted. Me, the person strongest pushing you, would have unvoted off of your play that last day. Why? Because

you were actually being town

. I don't really have the ability right now to give you a description of what you did so differently to cause that change, but I think even you have a general sense of what you did that was different. So, uh...basically, free advice from me: do what you did the last day, ALL the time. You'll not regret it.

Also, awkwardly enough, I was going to come in today voting eyestott.

Best thing I have off the top of my head,

Vote: vettock

,
But I clearly need to give the game a rethink. In class right now, so no time right now; bit distracted. But do need to take another look at things.

I don't think there is a lot of reasoning going on behind your reads right now, I don't think you are backing up your arguments with posts very well and just basing things on loose intuition.

Why are you voting Vettrock over BeastCharizard when both have posted just as much? I will not accept meta as a credible reason.

[killapenwin]

@all why are you letting beast say nothing all game?

[killapenwin]

@BBT did 1093 explain your question in 1092?

[killapenwin]

well then I don't understand your question, day 2 follows day 1 so it would be a continuation anyway. Beast is not contributing so voting him and putting pressure on should get him talking, if he doesn't talk what use is he as town?

I think that his flip will shed some light on Mastin and Coppers alignment, that is not an RVS vote it is one with purpose.

[killapenwin]

why are you overlooking my connection to mastin/copper?

[killapenwin]

They are defending someone who isn't even posting, I've linked examples. What would motivate them to protect someone who is not even posting?
I don't think it is too much of a stretch to say they are protecting a scum buddy.

[killapenwin]

Right, ok Copper if you want to get into this again so be it. The post you are referring to in 1115 is a rhetorical question, more of a statement about the arguing we were having together yesterday. It was meant to sum up the case you were making against me that I either vote Eyestott or I am scum.

Whilst we are on about your

case

against me, let's not lose sight of post [893].

@all: With Beasts few posts being as bad as this :932 why are you not voting beast?
Why are you content to let this guy lurk?
He hasn't even said anything in 4 days

@mod: prod/replace beastcharizard

[killapenwin]

First school, then I will blow all of your minds because I am not out of the loop like it has seemed.

Still waiting. Do something other than prodging.

[killapenwin]

My idea was to be an easy mislynch. On day 1 scum always look for a mislynch they can push. I figured I would try to bait them into pushing me. Then if they were remotely successful I would come out the gate swingy and show that I am actually town and that the push is scum motivated and only being done because it looked easy.

This is just awful strategy: look scummy as hell, provide no reads, then OMGUS the person voting you? Just awful.

[killapenwin]

If I see Mastin say trust me one more time...

[killapenwin]

1164

I don't give a monkeys about

other

games and I am certainly not going to trudge through them, especially given that no direct comparison is able to be made. This game dynamic is not known and the player list is certainly different, not that any of the players here would necessarily have the same role as the match you are on about.

This statement just seems like another cheap fob off for not scum hunting and worse still you couldn't even be bothered to link 'said' game, why would I find your argument credible or relevant when you are too lazy to even cite the source you get your 'reading' from?

@all: Why are you not voting beast right now? BBT is the only one who has answered.

[killapenwin]

@Anen if you think beast might be SK why is your vote not on him?

[killapenwin]

work it out for yourself?

[killapenwin]

killa, why are you answering for Anti? He clearly dislikes my attack on him so I was asking who he thought I should focus on instead of him. I wasn't saying: "I want to sheep your reads so tell me them."

Are you still not content with what I am doing? What can I do to appease you?

When you top being lazy. Asking a person you are scum reading for target advice, not cool.

[killapenwin]

I don't know why people are not voting beastcharizard right now,
a) he has been unhelpful for town
b) his flip could shine light on the alignment on mastin and copper, who are current being scumread by quite a few people
c) his reasoning for lack or participation is pretty shit
d) there seems to be a distinct lack of traction behind my push on him (no one is joining a bandwagon on him easily, scum could have easily jumped on and blamed me/wicked if we mislynched)

[killapenwin]

do you think it is worth pursuing today heartless?

[killapenwin]

@vettrock I see you have been revealed as 1-shot tracker, but I don't think I saw who you investigated, who did you track and why?

[killapenwin]

Copper, I have my reasons and would like for vet to answer

[killapenwin]

Err ok more claims.. it is late so I am not going to crunch the numbers or go into too much detail right now but as it stands: Vettrock has been outted as a 1-shot tracker but has not tracked anyone so can not be confirmed. Copper we won't know you are vengeful till you are flipped. I suspect scum will want to target you two tonight so I am not planning to vote either of you today.

Wicked I read as town and Anen I generally get good vibes from so probably town, too.

BBT is a bit of a wild card for me, the defending of Tean early on still grates on me a little though his play generally has been townish. Similar to claiming vengeful, claiming hider would be an easy way for an SK to survive an extra day so who dies night 2 out of copper/bbt/vettrock could be interesting. I don't wish to risk killing a hider so I won't be voting bbt today either.

Heartless has had some good posts/points and there is evidence of scumhunting so I think they are town and not worth a vote today.

Mastin - the over the top defending of beastcharizard is questionable, the participation in the dave/eyestott wagons is questionable, their reads hardly ever backed with evidence is questionable, the over use and reliance of meta/self-meta and '

trust me

' in a game based on deception is again questionable. I'm not getting good vibes on Mastin and believe she may be scum.

Tean has been so inactive that I really doubt that the slot is town or a PR so I could lynch today without feeling too bad about it.

BeastCharizard I have posted my reasons before but I think he is scum, many people are either skating over the issue of his inactivity or outright ignoring it, there is momentum for a lynch on him today and I think the lack of traction on it is scum not wanting to bus him out.

If BC flips scum I would put him in a team with copper and mastin
If Tean flips scum I would put him with BBT,

so Tean/BC would be my targets of choice for todays lynch with the result and night kills influencing the day lynches tomorrow.

[killapenwin]

VT.

[killapenwin]

@anen 589 Tean admits I never said that or you could check my ISO to confirm, too.

@copper it seems pretty logical to ask the tracker if he tracked anyone especially as we know at least 2 people performed a kill last night. With all these PR claims it seems a shame someone outted him before he was able to use his track.

[killapenwin]

I really do think that going down the lynch beastcharizard route is still the best to go, we don't end up lynching a PR prematurely and after the night deaths we will have a good idea on who is scum.

[killapenwin]

I'm not sure if copper is going full derp insisting on lynching a PR today, I mean he has just put himself in front of the lynchwagon. If he is town, his play today has been shit: he gives scum the last tracker and sacrifices himself..

[killapenwin]

Everyone seems pretty convinced Tean is scum regardless of any claim he makes, yet focus is on the lynching of PR's? Even if 1 of them is certain scum we have the ones remaining after the night to grill tomorrow.

Need I remind you that Vettrock is not conf tracker or conf town, he has not used his ability and scum would know day 1 that Eyestott was town, which isn't proof either.

PR's should be dealt with tomorrow, mislynching any of them now just helps scum.

[killapenwin]

Not fully caught up yet but what kind of derp thinking is bbt hiding behind copper? What happens when scum target copper? Oh right, we lose hider and the vengeful killer, plus with the likelihood of a another kill that's 3 town deaths in 1 night.

[killapenwin]

Not fully caught up yet but what kind of derp thinking is bbt hiding behind copper? What happens when scum target copper? Oh right, we lose hider and the vengeful killer, plus with the likelihood of a another kill that's 3 town deaths in 1 night.

We would be no lynching today and then we would have 3 total deaths anyway. Not to mention that if Titus is actually a Vig then those would be the only 2 kills of the night meaning over all we kept 1 extra person alive.

That is still on the back of quite a lot of assumptions, I'd rather not forfeit towns only sure way of killing scum.

[killapenwin]

[/b]@mod:
Q1) would replacements be informed of previous night actions/results?
Q2) If coppers slot is lynched before a replacement, (assuming he is vengeful) would their target still be bbt? [/b]

[killapenwin]

I'm not sure that it gives that much of an advantage it is just a name, meta isn't everything and too many players seem to read into it too much.

[killapenwin]

@wicked: I would have to check but I do remember vettrock being very slow to post the first day, did those crumbs come before or after Eyestotts claim? Also it is not to much of an impossibility for them to have done it as scum, for one they would know Eyestott was town and two given the mafia set up they would be aware that PR's were in the game.

[killapenwin]

I have not checked the math but are we now at mylo or lylo now that copperpot died?

[killapenwin]

Bit of a newb question but if there is a mafia JOAT can they use 1 NK alongside another mafia member?

[killapenwin]

Doesn't 1549 explain why there were 2 Night kills?

[killapenwin]

Doesn't 1549 explain why there were 2 Night kills?

Bit of a newb question but if there is a mafia JOAT can they use 1 NK alongside another mafia member?

The mafia get one NK, the other NK is either the Town Vigilante (Assuming Titus is telling the truth), or a serial killer. The JOAT does not allow any additional kill.

We cannot have:
IIPKHTT since there is no way for a second kill on N1. If BBT is telling the truth, Titus must be telling the truth as well and is not the serial killer.

This is what I don't understand, why isn't IIPKHTT possible? It has 1 K with a claimed night 1 kill, it's not odd so there isn't a SK. Scum will have targeted 1 person that night meaning 1 vig+1 mafia = 2 night kills?

[killapenwin]

scratch that I just looked at JK++ setup on wiki if titus is vigi then there has to be 2K

[killapenwin]

I would still much rather lynch BC than BBT and I am not sure why we are making life easy for scum tunnelling potential PR's.

[killapenwin]

I guess I should start looking for another game then, it was fun.

vote:wicked

[killapenwin]

Meh, when you have players like beast looking scummy as hell when town, a town vig that only shoots at town because they are away for most of the game, then you are pretty screwed from the start. Copper painting a target on his back and their slot subsequently being mod-killed didn't help much either.

So many dumb plays by town, scum were practically handed the game.