Mini 1637- Pokemon Generation I uPick (Game Over)

[vettrock]

Hello everyone. I've read through the game, but will have to do a little re-evaluation based on the Night Kills. The two nightkills implies we have either the Vig, or a SK.

[vettrock]

MS I'm gonna ask you one more time why is Tier scum? Explain it so I can actually understand it this time not some bs that I can't read.

Also I will reread ISOs later.

MS is dead. Was that supposed to be an attempted "townslip".

[vettrock]

I am going to agree and put Pie in my town read. I don't think it is likely that two of neighbors would be on the scum team, although I wouldn't completely rule it out. This neighborhood was Not_mafia and BBT. Did Not_mafia confirm its existance, or do we just have Not_mafia's role PM, and Pie's word about it? I don't remember seeing anything in the thread until after Not_Mafia's flip, but I may have missed it in my read-through.

Looking at who is dead, and all of the people on the Not_Mafia wagon, I am going to assume that there was some manner of bussing going on, but I don't think there would be two scum bussing, so I'm going to say Flames is a likely candidate for one of the scum, and I'm not sure with the other one. Seo would be the only non-bussing candidate.

[vettrock]

Vote Count 2.5

Flames682(0):

Bert(0):

Marquis(0):

Seohyun(0):

Metal Sonic(0):

Wisdom(1):

Not_Mafia

Egg(0):

BlueBloodedToffee(1):

Flames682

Formerfish(0):

Not_Mafia(6):

Bert, Tiershift, BlueBloodedToffee, Formerfish, Egg, Metal Sonic

TierShift(1):

Wisdom

Not Voting(2):

Seohyun, Marquis

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

Bert, Tiershift, Pie's slot, Formerfish are on NM's wagon, Boonskies's slot was voting Not_mafia(before), and Not_mafia was voting Bookskies slot. The others are dead.

Flames is not on the wagon, and Seohyun was not on the wagon. I also was not on the wagon, but I know I am town, so I didn't count that one. I am assuming 3 scum as standard. I don't think both of the scum would be on the wagon bussing, so that puts one of Flames and Seohyun as scum.

[vettrock]

@vetttrock I'm scum because at that point I did not believe NM to be scum?

It is not really scummy behavior, but more of a POE. It is difficult to grasp everything after reading 45 pages at once. You and Seo are the two that are still alive that were not voting NM. Looking at the recent behavior, I think Seo is the more probable than you.

Like Bert said afterwards, it is possible that both scum were on the wagon, I just don't see it as very likely, but if you are going to bus to the point of lynching, may as well have both get the towncred. So that would be an argument against my analysis.

I'm open to input from others, but those are my initial opinions.

[vettrock]

Associative tells are the best tells. You just gotta be able to discern who's scum and who's town off of it.

I agree with this. The only thing the separates scum from town in many cases, is that the scum know who is town and scum. Because of this scum steer their cases/votes differently than town. Making a mistake is something both town and scum can do unless it is a mistake based on knowledge that only scum would have.

I agree that no one should be cleared completely, but I can see the case why those who pushed Not_Mafia to the lynch should at least be given some towncred. That is why scum bus, for the towncred. There is also a good chance that both scum were not pushing the lynch, which means we have a good chance of finding the other one, putting us in a 1v5 situation the next day which has pretty good odds for town.

[vettrock]

VOTE: Flames

I've explained already my reasoning. I think we need to start putting down some votes, as it makes the VCA easier to follow. It was already pretty difficult coming in to judge the wagons for the first three days due to a lack of vote counts from the mod. Too many not voting.

[vettrock]

Your reasoning is POE on analyzing a lynch

Yes. Give me some reasons why you are town, or why someone else is scum.

[vettrock]

Your reasoning is POE on analyzing a lynch

Yes. Give me some reasons why you are town, or why someone else is scum.

Also, as I said not putting votes down lets scum hide. The lack of vote counts in the past already make the analysis more difficult.

[vettrock]

And if you didn't notice I said:

I'll reread ISOs sometime in the next 2 days

Great, I'll re-evaluate my vote afterwards. I do think others should put down some soft of vote. 4 out of 8 not voting is a lot for this stage of the game.

[vettrock]

vettrock did you even read the game you'll probably say yes but the right answer is no.

I have read the entire game. Did I grasp everything and remember everything, of course not. It was 45 pages long. About 10 of those pages are complaining about the mod and the long twilight, or asking to be replaced. Can I pick out the scum from the game so far? Nope. Are you my best guess at this point? Yes. I welcome you (and everyone else) to give me a better candidate. Seohyun seems legitimately confused about what role and powers he had, which I'm not sure if that makes him town, but he is doing a horribly unplanned job making a fake claim if he is scum.

So if you are not scum, you (and everyone else) can convince me someone else is a better candidate. You are voting Seohyun, I'm not convinced he is the best candidate, but I can see the issue (Like I said above). I'll give you some credit for actually putting down a vote.

[vettrock]

Okay, let's update that to the current playerlist.
I'm townreading:
Pie
Boon
Bert
fish

Scumreading but yet to sort
Vettrock
Flames

Hoping to sort by rereading the latest few pages:
Seo

I've played twice with vettrock before. He was town twice. Granted, I was scum twice, so that might slightly distort my views, but I notice smethng different about him here. What struck me in his towngames, was that they had exactly the same feel. From the start in the second game with him, I knew he was town (It was multiball, 3v3v3). He draws his own plan and seems smewhat out of touch with the rest of the game. He knows what is right for town, but is good to have around for scum as he's not very good at convincing people and it is easy to take advantage of him. I'm completely missing that behaviour in this game. He is engaged and is telling everyone about his feelings in a clear manner.

I'm not too sure about this read, as I do feel his vote is in the right place and his theory of 'two scum off the wagon' doesn't look like buddy protection; it's exactly where I'm at right now.

With regard to my game, I think some of the more engaging that I am doing now has to do with the length of time I have been on the site. I started out as town, and was scum read in all of my games (I wanna say the first 3 or 4 in a row) due to my uncertainty and somewhat disengaged behavior that you state. I have tried to be more engaged to combat this by being more interactive.

[vettrock]

I hate to OMGUS vote, but I'm inclined to vote for Boon as well. I didn't really see the interaction between Wisdom and NM as scum partners, but Boon's recent push on me seems pretty scummy, but I'm not sure how much I'm letting the OMGUS aspect of it bother me.
VOTE: Boon

[vettrock]

Also, @Pie:

Any of my posts past this one in Ninja Mafia will show that what you just said is an illogical reason to lynch someone strictly because the playstyle annoys you. That is basically you saying you are open for a policy lynch with 8 players left.

Also, you were town in that game, and the person you were arguing with was town. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to draw from the reference.

[vettrock]

Only scum have a reason to self vote. Feeling better about my vote already.

[vettrock]

Boon's past games do show that he has self-voted as town. This means he was anti-town not just in this game, but in others as well. There is never a good reason to self-vote if you are town.

[vettrock]

I get that he is saying that you are using a trust tell by saying you only self-vote as town. Just because you have only done it as town doesn't mean you won't do it as scum.

Despite you not being lynched over it in those other games, it doesn't help town. Just because you were not lynched over it, does not mean it helped town in any way. It just means they chose to ignore it despite it being anti-town.

The other thing it does is draw attention to yourself which lets scum hide. Either your scum partner or just the scum players if you actually are town.

[vettrock]

assuming nothing went terribly wrong somewhere, I think scum should be within {Flames, vettrock, Boon, TS}, but I need to investigate further

I think I could support any of those other than vettrock, with a possible exception of TierShift.

town to scum
pieguyn
formerfish/Bert
Seohuyn/Tiershift
Flames
Boon

[vettrock]

I don't have new input, but I do think those without votes down, should put their votes somewhere. I've posted my thoughts, and am open to further questions.

[vettrock]

I can support flames. He was my pick before Boon started scumming it up.

[vettrock]

VOTE: Flames

Looks like this is L-1.

[vettrock]

My reaction is

'So that's why he mighta been mightie careful about not being scummy"

Yeh I had no thought cross my mind of you being a potential pr

So now both players who have had the most pressure today, in their words when under pressure (sometimes those words can be the most clearly thought in a weird way), have continued to push Vettrock as a scumread

I am missing something and will look back

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I still like Boon over flames, but that is what we have. We have time, so I probably should have waited before moving me vote back.

[vettrock]

How does that make sense with a tracker?

I have to agree that Low Kick doesn't sound like track.

[vettrock]

vettrock - I don't really like much about vettrock. There's been a few time where I thought he came across as town, like in 1274, but other times he is the scummiest thing ever. His reactions to my self-voting was super opportunistic, and he is voting Flames and saying he would prefer a Boon lynch, but he'll settle for Flames is him preparing for an excuse. I haven't looked over the Marquis slot much. I'm scum reading him.

Seohyun - I don't think scum would flat out say they are town reading everyone but one person in the game, and point that out. Everything he posts seems pretty town, including his psychic slip up. I'm town reading him.

pieguyn - I'm paranoid as all hell with her. She looks just like she did last game when her and I were scum partners, and I can't shake the idea that she is scum out of my head. Doesn't help that she replaced BlueBloodedToffee and I wasn't town reading BBT, one of the people I go out of my way to join a game with on the site, someone who I can usually town read pretty easily by early Day 2/late Day 1. Doesn't mean I was scum reading BBT, but yeah. I don't like the way she tried to conf town herself; she did that last game too. I also don't get why only 1 Psychic would be on the scum team. I don't like how she could be buddying herself up to Vettrock. She did that to Elbirn in the last game. Hard. This being said, i'm not stating they are scum together. I also don't like 1309. I'm scum reading her.


TierShift - I feel Tier's just playing it safe. Hiding behind simple reads that he can change. Something is off for me. When just reading in the thread I felt a very scummy feel by him, but his ISO is making me actually see it from a more town perspective. That being said, that isn't hard to fake. I don't like how he's borderline flipflopping on some reads, and that he's not throwing a vote down on vett or flames, two people who have had voted today. It just feels like he's waiting so he doesn't look scummy. I'm leaning scum on him.

So I have been mostly town, except for my reaction to you self-voting, which is something pretty much only scum does in my opinion. You've shown instances where you have done it as town, which just means you were just as anti-town in those games as well.

I'm agreeing with you on Seohyun. I think scum would have thought up a better plan with all of the mistakes he was making. Mostly town at this point.

I can partially agree with you on Tiershift as well. I see him sort of waiting to see what happens. Could be town, or could be scum.

[vettrock]

pieguyn - I'm paranoid as all hell with her. She looks just like she did last game when her and I were scum partners, and I can't shake the idea that she is scum out of my head. Doesn't help that she replaced BlueBloodedToffee and I wasn't town reading BBT, one of the people I go out of my way to join a game with on the site, someone who I can usually town read pretty easily by early Day 2/late Day 1. Doesn't mean I was scum reading BBT, but yeah. I don't like the way she tried to conf town herself; she did that last game too. I also don't get why only 1 Psychic would be on the scum team. I don't like how she could be buddying herself up to Vettrock. She did that to Elbirn in the last game. Hard. This being said, i'm not stating they are scum together. I also don't like 1309. I'm scum reading her.

So I have been mostly town, except for my reaction to you self-voting, which is something pretty much only scum does in my opinion. You've shown instances where you have done it as town, which just means you were just as anti-town in those games as well.

I'm agreeing with you on Seohyun. I think scum would have thought up a better plan with all of the mistakes he was making. Mostly town at this point.

I can partially agree with you on Tiershift as well. I see him sort of waiting to see what happens. Could be town, or could be scum.

Forgot to address the Pie part. That she was in the neighborhood with Not_Mafia makes it unlikely for her to be scum. What would be the point of putting in a neighborhood with two scum members. I'm sure they already get to talk at night. The only point would be if there was a third member, and Seohyun's power doesn't seem to be that, despite the earlier mistake. In addition, I see her play as town, so I am putting her at my strongest town read at this point.

[vettrock]

Flames what are you talking about
Tracker isn't alignment indicative
Even I realize that

First, stop saying that I said any swearing means you are scum. I never said that. I said that your choice of words within context makes me think you are scum.

Such a good argument 10/10.

Second, if you actually think I'm scum come with some reasons because weakly throwing a scum read on me isn't going to do a thing right now.

All the misreps you've put on me.

And more often than not trackers are town.

scum Tracker in multi-ball I can see. I can't see much benefit to scum in this game. I will agree that tracker is town, I'm just not sure he is actually a tracker. Claiming you used your shot once, and they didn't go anywhere is a pretty safe claim.

[vettrock]

Seriously people? Flames, Boon, or Tier are all better choices than me. I'm thinking town for Pie and Seo. FormerFish is somewhere in the middle.

[vettrock]

We saw they tried to kill you before, so that was as good of an option as any of the others. We were still catching up on the game.