Mini 1643: World of Mafiacraft (End)

[TroubledTownie]

Let's keep in mind we don't get to pick which role is purchased in the tier, it's random. We probably

won't

get cop if we buy Tier 1.

Buy: Tier 3

[TroubledTownie]

My question is that is it possible for scum to get the gear? Since it states randomly chosen based on a roll, does that mean an ungeared scum could get the item\power? Or did I miss something?

No, it will only go to an Ungeared Raider, which is pro-town.

When gear has been bought it will go to the Ungeared Raider with the highest-roll on a d100 loot system.

Scum might start with gear(raid bosses or something like that), or have a similar loot-buying system that takes place at night. The latter would have some interesting implications on scumhunting when you review someone's early behavior.

[TroubledTownie]

I'm assuming the scum roles have a different name than the town roles.

[TroubledTownie]

I'm assuming the scum roles have a different name than the town roles.

That's an interesting assumption.

This is my first theme game, but isn't that always the case? I've never played a game where the opposing alignments had the same role title.

[TroubledTownie]

Well mod said we were all in the same guild, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to think even scum would be "ungeared raiders" that were scum-sided.

Alright, I obviously hadn't considered that, thanks to you and House for pointing it out.

[TroubledTownie]

If you folks are dead certain that only town can get gear, we should be spending as few tokens as possible for gear.

In late game, anyone that isn't geared is a scum claim. Mass claim, go.

That's why I believe these roles can go to scum unless the mod specifically states otherwise.

Even if only town can get gear from the day-raid, it doesn't mean scum can't get gear during a night-raid.

[TroubledTownie]

It is a good point about the number of gear we can purchase though. Worst-case, we could buy three Tier 1 items in the first 3 days, or only two items if one of them is Tier 3, or even Tier 2.

Maybe we'll get some clarification about the loot system, but for now (and because I don't want to risk a scum vig)

Buy: Tier 1

@House, you said "In late game, anyone that isn't geared is a scum claim.", that's what I was referring to.

[TroubledTownie]

It's just raiding 101.
Who wants Tier 1 when we can have Tier 3!?

Why cry our eyes out in LFR when we can wipe the floor in Mythic?

With 20 tokens, even if we got the Tier 1 both D1(8) and D2(8), it would still mean we would need a scum lynch to even be able to purchase anything come D3. And it would STILL be another Tier 1.

2 mislynches would give us enough for the third Tier 1 item D3.

One scum lynch and we could afford Tier 2.

[TroubledTownie]

We're going to get an investigative role and they will get NK'd night 1. At least with a vig shot they get a chance at killing scum before they croak.

That's terrible logic. It makes me want to vote you.

[TroubledTownie]

I have already told you all you need to know is located here

This just strengthens my assumption that only pro-town players are

Ungeared Raiders

. Everything we need is in that post if we look carefully.

Gearing Up!

There is no limit on the amount of times

the town

can purchase from a Tier.

I think the wording in these posts is carefully deliberate. These are pro-town roles, I don't think they would go to scum.

When gear has been bought it will go to the

Ungeared Raider

with the highest-roll on a d100 loot system.

Specifically mentioning the role-name we have in the example role PM.

Once a player has been "geared" they may not receive additional powers, and no rerolls are allowed so choose wisely.

Uses the word player instead of Ungeared Raider. This rule would apply to all players, where the previous one only applies to pro-town Ungeared Raiders.

RAIDERS

- Begin Day1 with 20 Raid Tokens

Specifying the Raiders group. Implies there are other groups.

[TroubledTownie]

Vote: ABR

elusive, the point is that this early in the game, scum don't have to

massively

shift their gameplay. Very little is solidly established this early in the game.

pedit: what acryon said.

[TroubledTownie]

TroubledTownie, hi. Don't be troubled, drink some apple juice. Or try some Kiwi.

Don't tell me what to do! Although, apple juice does sound nice right about now...

Oh, these are more questions

all for town

and hopefully acryon approves:
1. Where is your avatar from and why did you choose it?

2. Where is your user name from and why did you choose it?

3. What is your mafia experience?

4. Highest accomplishment or most proud moment for you in a mafia game?

5. Saddest moment for you in a mafia game?

1 - It's from the interwebs somewhere, I wanted a pic of someone in the fetal position... because troubled.
2 - Just made it up while registering.
3 - Second game here, some EM, playing with friends in person.
4 - Being scum while playing with my friends, and nobody suspecting me the entire game. I don't have a poker face, and I prefer playing town, so it's usually pretty obvious in person when I'm scum.
5 - Realizing that I got outplayed by Carl(Name has been changed), who has an even worse poker face than I do. I can't even remember what he did, but it was brilliant, and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

[TroubledTownie]

Wait did bankai mention classes?
My class has not been mentioned at all...

Also racial traits are ment to not be some OP shit since everyone has one.

I just mentioned abilities.

I'm going to race call now. I'm a dark elf, with the shadowmeld ability, I can pick a color for my votes to be high lighted in. Has a two day cool down

What do you think is the benefit to town with you revealing this information?

[TroubledTownie]

bankai, could you explain your thought process to me? Not only did you reveal your race, and your ability, but you also outed another player at the same time. What benefit do you think that had?

Wait did bankai mention classes?
My class has not been mentioned at all...

Also racial traits are ment to not be some OP shit since everyone has one.

I just mentioned abilities.

I'm going to race call now. I'm a dark elf, with the shadowmeld ability, I can pick a color for my votes to be high lighted in. Has a two day cool down

What do you think is the benefit to town with you revealing this information?

[TroubledTownie]

Wait did bankai mention classes?
My class has not been mentioned at all...

Also racial traits are ment to not be some OP shit since everyone has one.

I just mentioned abilities.

I'm going to race call now. I'm a dark elf, with the shadowmeld ability, I can pick a color for my votes to be high lighted in. Has a two day cool down

What do you think is the benefit to town with you revealing this information?

So, you didn't think there was any benefit to town, but just did it because you couldn't think of a reason not to?

If you need me to tell you who you outed... then that information will be useless to you.

[TroubledTownie]

Ozgin, it was clear you were a night elf with shadowmeld, but why reveal your class?

[TroubledTownie]

VOTE: bankaikiller

Poor reaction to the votes as they piled on, instant OMGUS-voting anybody who voted for him, and showing emotion/insults that don't match early posting. Seems too sensitive to early accusations.

Still not liking ABR's strong pushing and overstatements.

[TroubledTownie]

@elusive

The colour seems like a look at how cheery i am i could never be scum ATE type thing. Do you have other games on site that you do this regardless of role

The main problem i have is the fluff questions that distract. How would the answers to any of those questions help you find scum

GGG, why did you vote elusive for distracting comments and using color(I mean, really? That's worse than handwriting-analysis scammers. It's just a color.) over the one person you've mentioned as acting scummy?

[TroubledTownie]

Secondly, I intuit. I'm actually learning some logic now hence the probability interest but its not my natural thing. I like vibes and knowing people helps me idk "vibe" them out. I am trying not to rely on this but its the more natural thing for me to do.

Intuition gets a bad rap sometimes. The subconscious mind is very powerful, it should neither be ignored nor blindly followed. (When the intuition is about something that is information-based, that is. If it's based on something that there is no information for, then it's always exactly as accurate as guessing).

Along those lines, I'm getting good vibes from you.

[TroubledTownie]

All fluff is scummy, as long as it's in an innocent color. Got it.

[TroubledTownie]

ABR is red-orange colorblind, a common side effect of spending too much time plotting with fellow mafia members in poorly lit areas heavy with cigar smoke.

[TroubledTownie]

Where the fuck have I had an emotional outburst similar to bankais?

When you start swearing, insulting, and using

BIG BOLD UPPERCASE THINGIES

, that comes across as emotional.

Also anyone else curios why she's gone from short posts to god damn essays after people started voting for her?
And she calls me defensive ...

You know who else went from short posts to "god damn essays"? You did.

But that's a ridiculous bit of dirt to try and throw at somebody. Early in the game, there's not enough information out there for long posts. You're starting to look more and more like bankai, whose play you criticized and claimed you could pull off better.

[TroubledTownie]

She FREAKED OUT when she thought I was calling her scummy when I was answering her question. Then she flipped out and acted waaaay overdefensive like noob scum all over the recent pages. It's 100% obvious if you read.

I agree with you on this... that post was weird. The tone is different from elusive's tone in response to kiwi's accusations. I see two possibilites.

1 - Town elusive forgot the question she asked ABR 30 minutes earlier.
2 - Scum elusive was already in defensive mode against Kiwi and saw someone else coming after her... overreacted.

Number 2 seems much more likely to me.

VOTE: elusive

BTW, I read through some of ABR's theory posts linked on his wiki, so I understand now what he's doing. I have him at a null read now.

[TroubledTownie]

By my count that is L-1. Please request a claim before anyone thinks about hammering.

The lack of resistance to this wagon should make people more concerned than they seem to be.

Did you count House twice? He was already on the wagon.

[TroubledTownie]

I suppose that's true.

Either way, I don't think she's town, so I won't be hammering.

Annnnd we've got our second scum.

That's more than a bit of a stretch.

[TroubledTownie]

We'll get Tier 3 weaponry, just not now. Information and not-killing-off-townies-faster-than-necessary should be our priorities.

[TroubledTownie]

I want to re-enact the scene in the Matrix where Neo takes guns and acts like a badass to free Morpheus but imagine Trinity and Tank sassing him on the way like "omg but what if you kill innocents" then we'll deal with it at that time. Nothing ever got done by people who didn't take risks. Morpheus would be dead and zion destroyed if it were left to you. What about the risk, get the hell outta here, you ain't cut out for this game.

Imagine if the matrix wasn't a movie, but real. AI with computing power billions of times faster than any human's would just kill everybody, never miss a shot, wouldn't be harmed by virtual bullets, and wouldn't have designed a system where humans could gain root access just because they are Keanu Reeves.

[TroubledTownie]

[TroubledTownie]

I want to re-enact the scene in the Matrix where Neo takes guns and acts like a badass to free Morpheus but imagine Trinity and Tank sassing him on the way like "omg but what if you kill innocents" then we'll deal with it at that time. Nothing ever got done by people who didn't take risks. Morpheus would be dead and zion destroyed if it were left to you. What about the risk, get the hell outta here, you ain't cut out for this game.

I'm not averse to voting Acryon.

"Oh, you think me, acryon, and House are scum? Yeah sure, I'll vote for either of them!"

Literally the scummiest thing I've read in the past 24 pages.

He's had acryon as scum for almost the whole game.

[TroubledTownie]

pedit weird, ignore that first quote, dunno where it came from.

[TroubledTownie]

ABR, I'm honestly surprised that you backed off of elusive so quickly and so hard because of one post. You expect scum to make townie sounding posts, but look for when they slip, right?

[TroubledTownie]

But in the heat of the moment (or past few pages) it's been elusive.

Wrong. From page 23.

Nero Cain, top of my list of scum. Acryon second. I can't believe I'm saying this, but elusive seems just about as town as my top townread kiwi.

He also mentioned acryon being his second read on page 22.

Anyway, fine, we can do Tier 1 today, but if there's a cop, they should target acryon, if it's a watcher, they should watch me, now hammer elusive and let's go to night.

Hella-bad, lazy scumhunting.

VOTE: Ozgin

[TroubledTownie]

(I can strongarm a lynch too )

Not right now you can't.

Your ISO doesn't look amazing right now. I don't agree with ABR's latest case against you, but you haven't really done much to help out... a few lines here and there about other players, but you just seem to be coasting on your ABR read and only superficially justifying it.

[TroubledTownie]

If you want to talk about opportunistic, let's talk about Fuzzy. He's been active, posting during the elusive wagon, but he hasn't done any scumhunting or committed himself to any reads. Mostly talking about gear instead of players and motives.

[TroubledTownie]

Damn.

Okay.

...

I mean I personally don't believe Elusive was right on ANYTHING but of all things that suddenly convinced you? Just when she was going to get lynched?
Talk about scum taking advantage.

And thats why I can understand an Acyron lynch but it depends on if Elusive is town.
Which after all the flat-out bad attacks shes done makes it a BIG if.

This is scummy, and for more than just what I put below, I want to focus on this first.

You contradicted yourself. You have been

VERY

insistent that you didn't get emotional(naturally, because your seemingly-emotional response was a big part of the case against you)... but in this post:

Oh boo hoo I got emotional. Its part of how I play.

earlier in the game:

Also, I have never gotten emotional.

and

Also I am telling you thats how I play its not emotional

So you're lying about something. You were either lying about being emotional, trying to defend yourself against that accusation...

or

You're lying now, trying to make acryon's vote on you look more unfounded than it really was.

Which is it?

[TroubledTownie]

I personally don't feel I have ever gotten emotional but after like 5 people told me I was getting emotional then I came to accept thats how I play.

If I had to choose, then I would choose I never got emotional though.

Oh no. You're going to let other people in an online game determine your own reality? Not buying it. If you weren't emotional, you weren't emotional, and you would have no reason to concede that you were.

You slipped, in your eagerness to paint acryon in a bad light, you forgot one of your own pillars of defense.

VOTE: kiwieagle

[TroubledTownie]

vote:acryon

come ABR

Why are you voting acryon?

[TroubledTownie]

he's ABR's buddy

That's it? After I say you've been coasting on your ABR vote and not doing much, you switch to another wagon with 'He's ABR's buddy' as your reasoning?

Come on, share.

[TroubledTownie]

Nero is scum, first on my list, he surpassed acryon in the last two pages.

I really dont know how I can defend myself from this. Its part of how I play mafia lol thats all I can say.


I really dont want to get into another bullshit war lol.
"Yeah well you are EMOTIONAL. GET FUCKED."

You can't defend yourself. You took both sides of a single issue, when it suited your own play. That's scummy.

[TroubledTownie]

Nero is scum, first on my list, he surpassed acryon in the last two pages.

He's definitely not being helpful, and isn't putting in any sincere effort.

[TroubledTownie]

You're looking very emotional again kiwi. You refuse to be 'sucked back in' and have 'other things to do', but can't stop talking about it?

Then you move the goalposts, trying to make it about whether or not your emotional response is a scum tell or human tell.

The fruit doth protest too much, methinks.

[TroubledTownie]

he's ABR's buddy

That's it? After I say you've been coasting on your ABR vote and not doing much, you switch to another wagon with 'He's ABR's buddy' as your reasoning?

Come on, share.

Well first I think that the way ABR went out of his way to avoid agreeing with Ac looked like buddyplay. I also think that ABR saying that he'd be willing to vote Ac but when challenged to vote him he refused.

Active lurking, has that replaced your vanilla lurking strategy as scum?

[TroubledTownie]

scum DO get emotional, so do town. Its null. Maybe if there's meta evidence that you are more emotional as scum than town. Talk to me about your reads on ABR and AC?

Town doesn't have any reason to lie about whether or not they got emotional, just to build a case against someone.

[TroubledTownie]

huh? Are you an alt? I also haven't lurked this whole game.

No, just looked at a few of your games. You mentioned that lurking is your scum-play.

You're pretty much active-lurking. Most of your posts could be replaced with 'yeah, I'm here, see I'm town'.

[TroubledTownie]

Please, you didn't cause this. I look at your posts and roll my eyes.

Yeah, you caused this.

[TroubledTownie]

Elusive. What do you think of TT claiming that I'm active lurking when I'm obv not?

Lol, just look at your ISO.

173 is your vote on ABR, barely enough reason to make it more than a random vote.
451 you were asked about your reads on other players, you post a little case against ABR and throw in some other names superficially.

Pretty much every other post(all 100 of them) is discussion of tiers, other game mechanics, jokes, off-topic, mindless pushing of the ABR train, etc etc etc. Everything

except

scum hunting.

[TroubledTownie]

Also unless if a player is breaking a rule, they will not be replaced.

Well I would say that if he's town that he's playing against his wincon but then again there's not a rule about playing to your wincon so *hrmpf*

Elusive. What do you think of TT claiming that I'm active lurking when I'm obv not?

Lol, just look at your ISO.

173 is your vote on ABR, barely enough reason to make it more than a random vote.
451 you were asked about your reads on other players, you post a little case against ABR and throw in some other names superficially.

Pretty much every other post(all 100 of them) is discussion of tiers, other game mechanics, jokes, off-topic, mindless pushing of the ABR train, etc etc etc. Everything

except

scum hunting.

I'd argue that pushing my top scum read, discussing why t3 is bad for town IS scum hunting and doing what a townie needs to do.

Your top scum read is weak, and your pushing of that read is weak as well. Your second(?) top scum read (vote acryon because he's ABRs buddy) is even worse, and your switch to that wagon looks opportunistic and scummy.

You've shown nothing that looks like sincere, invested scum-hunting. Talk about tiers is fine, that discussion had to happen, but it was resolved as of Post 176. Nobody can point to their part in the tier discussion and use that as any kind of town-indicative activity. That's exactly the kind of active-lurking content scum would be focusing on. That way, they appear active, but aren't committing themselves to read/vote mistakes that could come back to haunt them.

You have the second-most posts in the thread, but almost nothing that looks like real scumhunting.

[TroubledTownie]

Not to mention, any kind of appeal-to-ridicule looks pretty scummy as well. If you're really pro-town, you should be clarifying your motivations and reasoning so the town is more informed overall.

This is all appeal-to-ridicule:

ZOMG I in a road to rome game

yeah, I'm in a newbie game.

Hi. My name is Nero Cain and I am your

somewhat

friendly IC. Currently there are no SE's so please direct any and all questions to me. I will NEVER lie about game theory and I will answer to the best of my ability. Here our the rules I have to follow. Our mafia wiki is the best thing since ISO. Sidebar: I can no longer play on sites without ISO. To read a players ISO click on the ISO link located in the upper left right after the post number.

ISO stands for isolation. It brings up all of a players posts in that game. While on the subject of abbreviations; be sure to familiarize yourself with these common abbreviations. But back on the topic of the wiki. It is a great source of information but it is NOT a bible. I still encourage the reading of it but there won't be a test on it.

Here are a few tips and/or words of encouragement:

1: This is a game. Do try to have fun but do not (or stop) partake in such activities as:

• Trolling
  Lurking
  Generally being disruptive
  being rude

There are other players in the game, what may be fun/funny to you may not be fun or funny to the next person.

2. This game is a commitment. If you don't think you'll have time to play or be active kindly replace out. No one will think any less of you and if they do: Fuck em.

3. DO do the following:

• play to your wincon
  have fun (yes I know I already said this)
  be active
  listen to Nero Cain
  ask questions*
  try your best**

4. Don't get discouraged. No one on this site picks up the game and is automatically good. Its a learning process.

5. All hail Mith!

*No questions are dumb (except the ones I call dumb) If you don't understand something ask away. Unless you are a robot that's how we learn. Sidebar: we can also learn by reading but SO. MUCH. FUCKING. EFFORT.

**if YOU feel that you tried your best that's all that matters. Who gives a shit what others think?

HERDING KITTENS!

[TroubledTownie]

(1) Uhhh. TroubledTownie is voting me for the same reason as Ozigin.
(2)That was disappointing. After their vote they have not answered to my defense nor called me scum again. I was expecting more.

1 - I'm voting for you because you contradicted yourself on your own defense of yourself. Town has no reason to lie about their own actions.

2 - I answered your 'defense' which is as follows:

A - You didn't get emotional, you just said you did because other people were saying it
B - Emotion does not equal scum.

Now, A is just patently absurd. You shouldn't let people on the internet redefine your own reality... Either you did let internet people do that(unlikely), or you screwed up when trying to build a case against someone and forgot your own earlier lie(likely).

Your continued defense of 'it's ok to get emotional' doesn't mesh with point A, because if you didn't get emotional, you wouldn't be so worried about what the thing you didn't do means.

Lastly, point B ignores that my reason for voting you isn't that you showed emotion. Never has been.

[TroubledTownie]

House
can you be more specific as why you see play as scummy . What about his thought process do you see as bad, Also how do you equate his bad play as scummy,,,, what is the difference between just playing badly and playing bad in a scummy way

I can't expand on that read because it relies on information that can't be discussed at this time.

Soon though! Definitely before this game is done. Probably before tomorrow is.

Lol, I can't wait for your meta-analysis from a single point of data

[TroubledTownie]

I love how you keep trying to minimize it. You used that point to ridicule someone else's read on you. Now you're acting like it wasn't a big deal.

Scum try to look town, it's not like every post they make is clearly scummy. You have to find when they slip up. You slipped up, and your defense of yourself has just made it worse.

Pedit:
@ Nero Cain
It's about the time he said:

C'mon really?
How the fuck is that a convincing case?
I don't see how that could convince anyone.
Oh boo hoo I got emotional. Its part of how I play.
How does that make me scum?

Trying to refute acryon's read of him by contradicting his earlier defense. Contradicting himself during a sad attempt at appealing to ridicule... scummy.

[TroubledTownie]

I am not sure about Eusive and KIwii , I realy want to read through the events and see if either one pings my scumdar

This was a while ago, and you've posted a bit since then... any update Fuzzy?

[TroubledTownie]

I really am trying not to insult your intelligence. I really am.


I slipped up because I really could not give a flying fuck whether I am playing emotional or not?

I can read. I know what your defense of yourself is.

I just don't buy it.

[TroubledTownie]

So your case boils down to:

"His defense used to be he does not play emotionally. But then he admitted he played emotionally to defend himself from Elusive."

There are various flaws in how you think and connect dots.
1. Saying I don't play emotionally is not a fucking defense. Its a disagreement over how I play. It might have been Elusive's case but that just means Elusive had no clue what she was doing.
2. Not caring whether people believe I play emotionally or not is a not a contradiction.
3. I was satirizing a statement made by Elusive, and then saying that if she has a problem with how I play then that's her prerogative but she can't base a case on that.


I can't believe I am putting so much analysis into a statement I made in 3 seconds.
Jesus christ, Troubledtownie. You really are desperate.

What constitutes scummy behavior isn't an objective, factual standard. Therefore, claiming that my interpretation of your play is a flaw in how I think and connect dots is ridiculous. There's nothing logically wrong with my argument, you just agree with one of the premises.

Veiled insults don't improve my opinion of you either.

[TroubledTownie]

Look I am trying to be nice here because you have played 1 month of mafia.

But if you want me to be honest:
I consider your case to come from either desperate scum looking for details to fuck someone around with or really fucking stupid town. I have said so much scummy things and you come with this bullshit? I can't even defend myself from this because I get a cerebral aneurysm trying to understand your though process here.

Cool. I don't care. You disagree with me, and I'm new. To make such a big deal about how stupid you think that makes me serves no point.

And no you don't. My thought process is (simplified) town shouldn't lie, you lied. You understand that. There's no need to keep going over this, so just drop the insulting bullshit.

[TroubledTownie]

So your case boils down to:

"His defense used to be he does not play emotionally. But then he admitted he played emotionally to defend himself from Elusive."

There are various flaws in how you think and connect dots.
1. Saying I don't play emotionally is not a fucking defense. Its a disagreement over how I play. It might have been Elusive's case but that just means Elusive had no clue what she was doing.
2. Not caring whether people believe I play emotionally or not is a not a contradiction.
3. I was satirizing a statement made by Elusive, and then saying that if she has a problem with how I play then that's her prerogative but she can't base a case on that.


I can't believe I am putting so much analysis into a statement I made in 3 seconds.
Jesus christ, Troubledtownie. You really are desperate.

What constitutes scummy behavior isn't an objective, factual standard. Therefore, claiming that my interpretation of your play is a flaw in how I think and connect dots is ridiculous. There's nothing logically wrong with my argument, you just agree with one of the premises.

Veiled insults don't improve my opinion of you either.

Like, look at this.
You are going to dismiss all of my points just because I used the phrase "various flaws in how you think and connect dots." which any other person would consider perfectly valid?

Listen, if you want to discuss mafia theory, you'll probably wipe the floor with me. But if you want to discuss logic, I'll wipe the floor with you. You accusing my thought processes based on a subjective disagreement is nothing more than absurd.

Point 1 I've already addressed.
Point 2 is irrelevent. You only 'didn't care' after I pointed out your contradiction.
Point 3 I've already addressed.

I didn't dismiss anything, we've been over all this before.

[TroubledTownie]

I don't think him saying that he's not being emotional but getting emotional is a scumtell.

I agree, but that's not why I think he's scummy now is it?

[TroubledTownie]

For Nero:

Spoiler: Kiwi ISO

Cant really post something good and long right now but
Elusive I still can't understand your posts on me.
Where the fuck have I had an emotional outburst similar to bankais?
Please quote.
How the fuck have I sheeped ABR the whole game?
The only time I agreed with him was with bankai and even when he backed down I continued.
How the fuck have I been coasting?
Check my ISO and please quote.

Also anyone else curios why she's gone from short posts to god damn essays after people started voting for her?
And she calls me defensive ...

Ozgin, its a couple of things about him. I'm phone posting and will do a ISO case to tonight or whenever I can. Here's a quick summary to the best of my memory:
1. Bankai falls apart and kiwi eggs him on and gloats that Kiwi as scum could pull off an emotional gambit but bankai can't.
2. Kiwi claims he will decimate scum.
3. I put a vote on kiwi because of the gloat and something about the tone of that post felt smug, bankai had already erupted and kiwi chose him as a scum target after the fact. Also when someone boasts like that but doesn't pull through it pings me hard since what scum is is to talk without actual actions.
4. Kiwis reactions to my one single vote were ridiculously bad. Like I don't feel much pressure right now and I might be lynched toDay. Emotions are all steady, I've been tunneled pretty hard as town by town and scum so were still in the minor leagues.
5. Kiwi specifically mentions that he wasn't going to get emotional and gets really really emotional. For no reason which is why I called drama or theatrics. He just told a guy he's good at fake out frame then he does some totally crazy response to soft poke.
6. I refuse to answer his questions BC they are make a case on him and a parrot of my own questions. The answers he gave as I stated don't give any reads on his scum. I'm used to people making cases, if this is not the case in this game ya'll better lynch me quick because a person without cases...what is this Town of Salem?
7. Kiwi continues to get heated without reason. I may have poked hard but only after being called dumb ass scum which was part of the ongoing OMGUS. Oh and retard fight I didn't find that to be complimentary to me or bankai? Unclear who the second was.
8. His reaction to my deciding not to make a case, mostly because I was having technical issues makes him go off even more. Like patience.
9. His entire case on me is not answering questions and then going from small tiny posts to large ones. How does that make sense? What scum mindset can you figure out from those?

So therefore scummy acting scummy and petulant.

Oh and GGG, same thing for you. You find questions scummy, explain why. Then the post of yours that Ozgin quotes actually means that you can build a case on kiwi who believes that post lengths must conform or its scummy. Or at least take down his logic because thats what town does find areas where logic doesn't follow or where actions and words don't match up.

Rampage, what are you offering in return? The ability to spin straw into gold?

Yep, not voting elusive. That

is

a pretty convincing kiwi case however.

Let's see where this goes.

VOTE: kiwieagle

1. Bankai falls apart and kiwi eggs him on and gloats that Kiwi as scum could pull off an emotional gambit but bankai can't.

Don't see how this is scummy. Its the truth.

2. Kiwi claims he will decimate scum.

I am, son. This sounds like you scared.

3. I put a vote on kiwi because of the gloat and something about the tone of that post felt smug, bankai had already erupted and kiwi chose him as a scum target after the fact. Also when someone boasts like that but doesn't pull through it pings me hard since what scum is is to talk without actual actions.

This is just stupid. Check any of my games. I gloat because I find it funny, and its a null point anyway because I AM destroying scum like you.

4. Kiwis reactions to my one single vote were ridiculously bad. Like I don't feel much pressure right now and I might be lynched toDay. Emotions are all steady, I've been tunneled pretty hard as town by town and scum so were still in the minor leagues.

My reaction was to ask you explain your vote.
Which you haven't done.
Even these points are just confusing or simply wrong/bad.
Last time I checked, by page 8 or w/e RVS is not continuing so any votes must have a good reason.

5. Kiwi specifically mentions that he wasn't going to get emotional and gets really really emotional. For no reason which is why I called drama or theatrics. He just told a guy he's good at fake out frame then he does some totally crazy response to soft poke.

I also dont understand this. What the fuck is fake out frame?
How is asking for REASONS a totally crazy response?
Also, I have never gotten emotional. Heck, if you think WRITING like THIS is emotional you are wrong because I always write like THIS. I don't see why you continue to repeat the emotional shit because its obviously false.

6. I refuse to answer his questions BC they are make a case on him and a parrot of my own questions. The answers he gave as I stated don't give any reads on his scum. I'm used to people making cases, if this is not the case in this game ya'll better lynch me quick because a person without cases...what is this Town of Salem?

What do you mean I don't give reads? I EXPLICITLY stated my reads. You can even find a LIST.
The reason you don't answer my questions are because you DONT have answers. Which is scummy. If you are going to vote me and then CLAIM I am coasting and CLAIM I am being "emotional" (Maybe aggresive... which is my personality anyway) you better find some quotes or give legitimate answers.

7. Kiwi continues to get heated without reason. I may have poked hard but only after being called dumb ass scum which was part of the ongoing OMGUS. Oh and retard fight I didn't find that to be complimentary to me or bankai? Unclear who the second was.

Uhh ok so you are repeating the same stuff. I think this is going to be the third time I state that being "heated" is just how I play. Look at my previous games.

8. His reaction to my deciding not to make a case, mostly because I was having technical issues makes him go off even more. Like patience.

This is COMPLETE bullshit. You decide to mention "technical issues" until now. Also, you have made TWO god damn essays where you had the chance to answer MY questions and you didn't. Technical, my ass.

9. His entire case on me is not answering questions and then going from small tiny posts to large ones. How does that make sense? What scum mindset can you figure out from those?

My entire case is that scum lie, you lied. Scum avoid questions that may leave them vulnerable, you avoid questions. Scum invent cases with half-assed points, this post proves that. Scum change behavior, you went from question asker to defensive fluff poster in a matter of seconds.



Also, since acryon decided to support this complete bollocks case he better answer the damn questions I asked her.
Actually, you better build a DAMN good case explaining where elusive is right and I am wrong.
I DARE you to quote the time I coasted, the time I went into theatrics, all the times I sheeped ABR, the time I went crazy from soft-poke, and the time I failed to answer a question fully.

Acryon you prick you better not cop out right now

Youd be the second fool who refuses to answer me

Also I am telling you thats how I play its not emotional... just look how I argumented with bankai...


Pedit
"Waiting for a claim"
HAHAHAHA

Damn.

Okay.

Elusive's final posts look like generic flailing I would expect from both town and scum.
Don't see it as anything I should be convinced by.

BUT.

Acryon really fucked up with his defense of Elusive.
And that sucks because he can't defend himself.
But heres how I see it.

IF
Elusive is town.
Then Acyron is complete fucking scum.
And I am baffled Elusive thought he was town if she really is town
(oh look another reason why I dont think she is town).

Acyron looks like a scum who was finding an excuse to defend the townie being lynched to get them mad town credz and heres why

Ozgin, its a couple of things about him. I'm phone posting and will do a ISO case to tonight or whenever I can. Here's a quick summary to the best of my memory:
1. Bankai falls apart and kiwi eggs him on and gloats that Kiwi as scum could pull off an emotional gambit but bankai can't.
2. Kiwi claims he will decimate scum.
3. I put a vote on kiwi because of the gloat and something about the tone of that post felt smug, bankai had already erupted and kiwi chose him as a scum target after the fact. Also when someone boasts like that but doesn't pull through it pings me hard since what scum is is to talk without actual actions.
4. Kiwis reactions to my one single vote were ridiculously bad. Like I don't feel much pressure right now and I might be lynched toDay. Emotions are all steady, I've been tunneled pretty hard as town by town and scum so were still in the minor leagues.
5. Kiwi specifically mentions that he wasn't going to get emotional and gets really really emotional. For no reason which is why I called drama or theatrics. He just told a guy he's good at fake out frame then he does some totally crazy response to soft poke.
6. I refuse to answer his questions BC they are make a case on him and a parrot of my own questions. The answers he gave as I stated don't give any reads on his scum. I'm used to people making cases, if this is not the case in this game ya'll better lynch me quick because a person without cases...what is this Town of Salem?
7. Kiwi continues to get heated without reason. I may have poked hard but only after being called dumb ass scum which was part of the ongoing OMGUS. Oh and retard fight I didn't find that to be complimentary to me or bankai? Unclear who the second was.
8. His reaction to my deciding not to make a case, mostly because I was having technical issues makes him go off even more. Like patience.
9. His entire case on me is not answering questions and then going from small tiny posts to large ones. How does that make sense? What scum mindset can you figure out from those?

So therefore scummy acting scummy and petulant.

Oh and GGG, same thing for you. You find questions scummy, explain why. Then the post of yours that Ozgin quotes actually means that you can build a case on kiwi who believes that post lengths must conform or its scummy. Or at least take down his logic because thats what town does find areas where logic doesn't follow or where actions and words don't match up.

Rampage, what are you offering in return? The ability to spin straw into gold?

Yep, not voting elusive. That

is

a pretty convincing kiwi case however.

Let's see where this goes.

VOTE: kiwieagle

C'mon really?
How the fuck is that a convincing case?
I don't see how that could convince anyone.
Oh boo hoo I got emotional. Its part of how I play.
How does that make me scum?

I mean I personally don't believe Elusive was right on ANYTHING but of all things that suddenly convinced you? Just when she was going to get lynched?
Talk about scum taking advantage.

And thats why I can understand an Acyron lynch but it depends on if Elusive is town.
Which after all the flat-out bad attacks shes done makes it a BIG if.

[TroubledTownie]

I don't think elusive's case was very strong. Not sure on the timing with the earlier wagon, it might have been an attempt to divert some heat.

My case:

Kiwi made a big deal about clarifying, multiple times, that he didn't do X(get emotional).
In his response to elusive's case, he used the argument not-X to ridicule elusive's post.
I find that very scummy.

[TroubledTownie]

Heres my final thoughts on this "issue"



What the fuck does emotional even mean? What does it mean to play emotionally?

Doesn't everyone play emotionally in their own way?

Classic self-defense, try to minimize or abstract the issue.

Doesn't Nero get frustrated here?

...

Red herring, it has never been about the show of emotion, but he

continuously

tries to redirect the focus back to that.

Also, trying to compare my instances of single, lower-cased, bolded words for emphasis to his emotional/not-emotional playstyle is a smaller red herring.

Where do I deny that I play emotionally?

Really? Post 485, Post 497, Post 637

Talk about misrep.

No misrepresentation. I quoted you taking both sides of the issue, and your attempts to defend yourself have only made you seem scummier to me.

[TroubledTownie]

EBWOP

Eh, forgot. You didn't 'accept' her definition. You

STATED

very

BOLDY and UPPER-CASEY

that the way you post

ISN'T

emotional, it's just how you play.

To go from a 17.5 on the

I-WASN'T-EMOTIONAL-RICHTER SCALE

to

Oh boo hoo I got emotional. Its part of how I play.
How does that make me scum?

doesn't make sense to me if you're town. Lastly, you keep trying to say you were quoting someone else or those weren't your words. Revisionism. You didn't say anything like

Oh boo hoo, you think I got emotional. That's just how I play.
How does that make me scum?

If you had, I never would have been suspicious of it.

[TroubledTownie]

Now you're resorting to a semantics argument between 'was emotional' and 'became emotional'? That's just sad.

To everybody else:

Does anybody else think it's scummy for someone to adamantly and repeatedly state X in their own defense, and then later state not-X trying to ridicule someone else?

[TroubledTownie]

Another lie.

You said you 'accepted' that definition, and used a partial quote to prove your point... but you never conceded that. You stated it was 'heated', but not emotional.

A few posts later, you

AGAIN

clarified:

Also I am telling you thats how I play

its not emotional

... just look how I argumented with bankai...

[TroubledTownie]

jesus I could do this all in one post but my stupid cellphone doesn't let me

I have explicitly stated I was satirizing what she said?

And I have explicitly stated that I don't buy that.

Why would you claim I am revising "Oh boo hoo I got emotional." to "Oh boo hoo, you think I got emotional" when thats obviously not true since how can you satirically restate something by adding "you think... etc"?

Good lord. It's just painfully pathetic that you insult my intelligence when you repeatedly show you can't grasp what I'm saying. I never said you revised your statement. Read it again. Words matter. (Hint: I said the second quote is an example of what it should have said if you were being consistent)

PEDIT:
Became emotional = emotional outburst

Talk about semantics.
This is an obvious attempt to misrep me by claiming I contradicted myself.

I don't even... you sound so much like a politician caught cheating.

It all depends on what the definition of is is...

[TroubledTownie]

@Math, why are you blantantly racefishing?

Refuse to answer but my race is verifiable.

@Titus -- I'm not racefishing I'm groupfishing. I'm trying to see if this game can be broken through groupfishing. That way if someone says a certain alliance but doesn't demonstrate the properties of that alliance it's trouble.

E.g. Displaying night elf which I have no problem claiming but having said Horde makes them a liar.

I'm hunting for liars

@Kiwi -- I did and said that. Just calling me "ignorant" and "mistaken" is not an argument when ya'll are doing group talk/think.

What's the point? Race(ergo group) isn't alignment indicative, so why would you expect anybody to lie about it?

[TroubledTownie]

Lemme get this straight.

Since Titus didn't make a point to correct Nero's little flavor quote,
and since Titus' name has more than one color,
then Titus is lying about being nelf and therefor scum? Is that what's going on?

I think I'm better than I actually am.

-Titus lvl 21 troll underling

[TroubledTownie]

Well, I'm not sure about the color thing, I'm sure we'll get that figured out...

but I don't think not-correcting Nero's fake quote is that big of a deal.

Come on, Math states that he's trying to get someone to lie about their race, and supposedly Titus falls for it a couple pages later?

[TroubledTownie]

No I don't make illegal requests to mods when scum beg me to fix their fuckup. I just vote them.
Then if you flip scum as is very likely, Nero will have confirmed everyone's race. Then everyone can say what they do.
If you flip town, conf scum in Nero.

EBWOP: Yes I think Titus's slot lied and got caught when Nero checked them. I honestly wanted night elf for her. So much potential for good from Titus being conf town. But alas she is conf scum

Hold on. You're not even willing to pm the mod and ask for clarification on your racial ability?

[TroubledTownie]

Yeah, Titus... read the thread. Not doing so is anti-town. It's ignoring information that could be useful to you. It's as bad a play as math not bothering to pm a mod before lynching.

[TroubledTownie]

VOTE: MathBlade

Being willing to lynch someone without using an available tool for information is scummy, and I still think Elusive slipped on that answer from ABR.

[TroubledTownie]

So.....being needlessly argumentative. Why would town do that?

no, I'm going to push your buddy. So his dog died. I'm sorry but he should still be able to play.

'nuff said.

[TroubledTownie]

I think lurkers have an unfair advantage..
Theres at least 3 in this game.
And i cant attack them because they dont post
Definitely one or more scum there


Pedit

Did house just turn on his wagon buddy?
Oof backstab . Damn that must hurt.

Yeah, Fuzzy is

really

bothering me at this point. It really looked like he was trying to coast on the(was it elusive?) wagon.

[TroubledTownie]

I'll make it easier for you:

People that might sheep your prima facie case on me:

TheFuzzylogic99
GGG
Xombie
acryon
Ozgin
bankaikiller

TroubledTownie

Albert B. Rampage
kiwieagle
elusive


Ask those guys.

[TroubledTownie]

@Math, if Nero was sincerely trying to attach races and classes to players, don't you think he would have bothered to use one of the actual classes instead of 'underling'?

[TroubledTownie]

tl;dr version cos I am not reading any of this shit

We don't need a second replacement who's not going to read the game...

[TroubledTownie]

VOTE: MathBlade

Being willing to lynch someone without using an available tool for information is scummy, and I still think Elusive slipped on that answer from ABR.

Yeah, I can sheep this vote.

VOTE: MathBlade

If you want my vote to move, ask the mod if your vote can be made in multi-color. kthx.

Scummy.
There is no reason to ask the mod when you have something called common sense.

Sooooooo bad. If there is a disagreement about your own racial ability, and you aren't willing to ask the mod privately to clarify, then you're acting anti-town.

'Common sense' is very often wrong, only fools rely on it when concrete answers are available.

[TroubledTownie]

Townhouse voting townhouse cause people ignore his meta. He's most likely town, so put your vote to use somewhere else.

Pedit Mathblade, he's done exactly this before. Townhouse will go from "I will fight to the very last post to prevent my mislynch" to "Screw it, *self-vote*" very quickly.

pirate mollie, read the thread. We don't need to rehash everything for you because you're too lazy to do your job(assuming you're town).

[TroubledTownie]

Come on guys, vote Math. Elusive made a scummy slip, and MathBlade came in actively pushing a wagon for a reason that could be clarified in a PM(why would town be so eager to possibly mislynch?), was manipulating the wagon to be "Either this player or that one", and only backed off when votes started on him for it.

[TroubledTownie]

Are fuzzy and TT getting fooled or are they scum hrmmmm....

TT-if Math flips town how would this change your reads?

None of my reads are associative, so it wouldn't change anything.

[TroubledTownie]

Wtf.

Am I the only one that thinks that's absolute bullshit?

And the likelihood of even having a town that isn't a UNGEARED raider is slim to none.

Tell us more about what roles there are and aren't. Use a magic 8-ball?

ESPECIALLY when we have an option to pick Tier 3 which might actually GIVE us a vig?

We could buy Tier 3 twice and get 2 vigs anyway. Maybe having a vig would make us want to get an investigative role even more.

Not to mention that our racials so far seem to be pretty meh, at best. But his is a vig?

No. Words matter.

Speaks after dead comes from Tauren.

Vig comes from Role PM.

[TroubledTownie]

... he did answer you Nero. Just because you don't

like

the answer doesn't mean he didn't answer.

[TroubledTownie]

Right, because questioning Titus, who isn't voting me, means I think she is town.

Because it's easy as hell for scum to rationalize voting me when I'm town.

I've already made that abundantly clear.

These are REPLIES they are NOT answers to my question.

Why is House town reading Mathblade?

The second one was a direct response, and answer, to your question.

[TroubledTownie]

Wow.

Your post 1149 was a complete misrep. That's not what House said. If it were, then House would have been town-reading Titus(who wasn't voting House).

Therefore, House pointing out that he was questioning Titus, who wasn't voting House, shows how wrong your misrep of his reasoning was.

[TroubledTownie]

Oh okay so if I play exactly like my town games (which is what I am supposed do to as mafia anyway) then TroubledTownie will consider me conftown!
Damn, its that easy?!

IF

all your town games you are abrasive, and

IF

all your scum games you are complacent

THEN

yes, playing abrasive makes you pretty much conftown.

If you manipulate your meta even once, and play abrasive as scum, then your meta becomes worthless.

[TroubledTownie]

Like sometimes I worry that Math is whiteknighting me but House is pretty much conf scum and TT is likely his buddy for using a null tell to call him town with. I don't really like ABR lurking all the sudden. Titus can be honorary scum (and somewhat potential).

Yep.

House is confscum.
I could see TT/Titus/fuzzy with their defenses on House. Trying to sort which I could feel coming more from town than not.
Can't see ABR at all.

The important part:

House. Is. Scum.

So... you're going to join Nero on the derp train, ignore House's meta, and think that anybody who knows his meta is scum defending him?

Come on, that's incredibly lazy and shallow, and you know it.

[TroubledTownie]

No, I'm ignoring

your

'meta' of House.

Townhouse voting townhouse cause people ignore his meta. He's most likely town, so put your vote to use somewhere else.

Pedit Mathblade, he's done exactly this before. Townhouse will go from "I will fight to the very last post to prevent my mislynch" to "Screw it, *self-vote*" very quickly.

I've seen him do exactly that as scumHouse, too. And so have you.

What game?

[TroubledTownie]

Dagnabbit ABR, put your vote back on Math! I don't know why you're letting yourself be fooled by one of elusive's posts after that slip, since you know very well that scum can make townie-sounding posts. You don't focus on the townie posts, you focus on the scummy posts.

We can look at House tomorrow, no harm done.

[TroubledTownie]

I'm not getting lynched today.

Argh.

Unvote, vote House

DAT FAKECLAIM

You know what? I don't like this. At all.

ABR looked town to me during the first part of the game because he was pushing wagons, pushing responses out of people, providing information for town to analyze. Much like his articles on how to find and lynch scum.

But then he backed off, like he got bored, and only when talk of lynching him comes up, comes up with this desperation. It's completely antithetical to his previous vote:

Unvote, vote Math

But if it's a fakeclaim, we'll know tomorrow anyway, no?

I'm willing to consider an ABR lynch because of that if that's where we decide to go.

[TroubledTownie]

I wonder if we're going to need to find a replacement for pirate mollie too... This is frustrating, this is an awesome theme and setup, but having 3 inactive slots with less than 24 hours left in the day is just a huge roadblock for us.

[TroubledTownie]

So by my count, we have

House (6): Nero Cain, kiwieagle, MathBlade,

pirate mollie

, Xombie, ABR
MathBlade (5):

GGG

, Titus ,TroubledTownie, Ozgin, House
ABR (1): TheFuzzylogic99
Not Voting (1):

acryon

We can't count on any of the red names changing, so if we want a lynch, it's probably not going to be ABR. We'd have to get 6/8 players to vote him in 21 hours.

I propose we lynch Math and have House shoot ABR.

[TroubledTownie]

Can we please just lynch House?
Abr's claim made this all wifom-y as fuck

If there is no vig this night then tommorow:
Did house not take the shot?
Did house get roleblocked?
Is house simply not a vig?

No one will know and we wont prove shit

What if there

is

a vig shot tonight?

Lynch Math

[TroubledTownie]

I haven't been feeling too hot the last few days, sorry guys. I'll post my thoughts later today.

[TroubledTownie]

So Nero has gone back to RVS...

Math is still scummy(You don't get town-cred for flip-flopping and only doing the pro-town thing once a wagon starts on you for doing the anti-town thing. I'm sorry, that was

horrible

.)

I think there's a good chance ABR is scum. His drop-off in intensity and activity seems uncharacteristic to his true scumhunting. I also

still

have a hard time believing he would completely clear a strong scum-read based on one post, his own wiki page says that you need to focus on the few times scum slips up, not when they sound like town. Lastly, his re-entrance and push against House seemed off as well.

@Oz, I'd like to hear your response to 1607...

[TroubledTownie]

VOTE: Mathblade

[TroubledTownie]

@TroubledTownie -- Yes because if I was caught scum I would redirect pressure onto my scumbuddy. Like wtf are you smoking? <sarcasm>

Appeal to ridicule. You know very well there are no hard and fast rules about what scum does and doesn't do. Distancing happens. So does bussing. So does every shade of grey in-between. Town shouldn't ridicule things like that, although scum has every reason to resort to such tactics.

If you're town... and that's a big if... then you have no place to take that kind of attitude. You wanted to lynch somebody over a detail that could be clarified by asking the mod, but you fought against that to push your lynch. If you're town, then that was horrible play, and we can't expect you to do much for the town this game.

[TroubledTownie]

TT, why do yo classify my vote on you as "random"?

vote:TT

I wasn't classifying your vote on me, I was classifying your voting. Period.

How you could possibly not understand is beyond me...

the next person to post that doesn't vote TT gets my vote

House flipping 3rd party isn't exactly a mislynch bro.

vote:TFL

[TroubledTownie]

I wasn't classifying your vote on me, I was classifying your voting

"My voting is random but not the vote on me?" The fuck is this junk?

Your voting in general is a broader term than a single vote on me. I was clarifying that I was referring to the broad subject, not the individual vote as you suggested.

[TroubledTownie]

Not even worth responding to.

I don't recall you ever doing anything more than saying I was 'deff' scum along with House, and probably ABR as well. Did you have an actual reason to vote me, or is it just a continuation of your previous unsubstantiated thinking?

[TroubledTownie]

I felt TT was all up in House's ass yesterday.

In this conversatiion (1274-1279) TT follows House using the same bullshit that House was not town reading Math for not voting him.

Yeah, I was getting tired of you going on and on about House not answering you when he did.

TT also remarks that house self voting is a town tell when at most, this it was null.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60313
^^
In that game they were scum together and he did the same "self vote" for ATE bullshit that he did here. Basicly my accusation is that TT knew House wasn't scum (atleast not scum on his team) and thus was defending him out the wazoo.

Those aren't comparable situations. House was dead in that newbie game. Nobody else was getting lynched that day. That was House trying to manipulate the day to end more quickly(not AtE as you claim). In this game, House being lynched wasn't a guarantee.

No, I'm ignoring

your

'meta' of House.

Townhouse voting townhouse cause people ignore his meta. He's most likely town, so put your vote to use somewhere else.

Pedit Mathblade, he's done exactly this before. Townhouse will go from "I will fight to the very last post to prevent my mislynch" to "Screw it, *self-vote*" very quickly.

I've seen him do exactly that as scumHouse, too. And so have you.

What game?

It also makes that post super sketch 'cause why the fuck would town him pretend to have not seen House self vote?

RETORT!

See above. I haven't seen House self-vote as scum in that frustrated manner, where his lynch wasn't guaranteed.

So your case boils down to me defending House, lol. You think as scum, I would lie about House's behavior and our own history, to keep him from getting lynched?

Great case Sherlock.

[TroubledTownie]

You think as scum, I would lie about House's behavior and our own history, to keep him from getting lynched?

If you had inside information that House wasn't scum (atleast not with you) I don't see why you wouldn't.

Think about it. Why would scum intentionally lie to try and prevent a mislynch? That's ridiculous. Scum

wants

mislynches, and scum

doesn't want

to have to lie.

Those aren't comparable situations. House was dead in that newbie game. Nobody else was getting lynched that day. That was House trying to manipulate the day to end more quickly(not AtE as you claim).

reading in context I can see that. Though I still find it a little iffy that you'd think that scumHouse would be above self voting to try and ATE his way out of a lynch. Which brings up the next portion of our discussion.

Can you explain how you got a meta town read on House. What games id you read?

I didn't think scumHouse would do it because I hadn't seen him do it. What's iffy about that?

Somewhere in that Newbie game there were 3 or 4 House games linked, those were the ones I had read.

[TroubledTownie]

@ABR -- That being said the fact Titus and TT opened out of the gate voting me is pretty suspicious so I'm holding my vote until I can reread the thread Sunday or unless something major happens.

It's suspicious of me to vote my biggest scumread?

Appeal to ridicule.

Can you tell me why Nero wants to lynch you? Serious question.

Not really. His case against me is that he thinks I intentionally lied to try and prevent a mislynch...

TT also remarks that house self voting is a town tell when at most, this it was null.

I actually find this fairly compelling. I can see scum saying that if they have reason to think House is town. Ok Nero, TT and TFL, we can do it.

As I've posted before, I had seen townHouse do that, but I hadn't seen him do it as scum. I even asked for a link to a game where he did that as scum.

[TroubledTownie]

What the fuck is up with that top quote? I opened out of the gate today voting Mathblade and that section isn't in 1648...

Damn it... Fucking quote boxes

I dunno, it's really weird.

Sometimes I'll quote Post X and submit the reply, and later I'll quote Post Y, but it will take the header information from Post X.

[TroubledTownie]

Scum wants mislynches, and scum doesn't want to have to lie.

Scum defend town all the time bro.

Scum doesn't lie to try to prevent a mislynch. Seriously, there is

no

scum motivation to do that.

Scum defend town for towncred when the case against someone is crap, just like town does, but there's no need to lie to do it. Your case against House was crap, you kept badgering on and on about him not answering you, when he had(you just weren't satisfied with it).

Somewhere in that Newbie game there were 3 or 4 House games linked, those were the ones I had read.

I will look at these. I assume that all these were town games he posted? If so how do you expect to have a good understanding metawise of House without reading his scum games?

This is scummy. You're already trying to frame my meta-understanding of House as suspicious,

before you know a thing about it

. If you're town, then you are trying

very

hard to make the data fit your preconception.

[TroubledTownie]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=59204 <- Town game. Also where I learned that RQS is scummy. Note my interaction with the IC.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58830 <- Scum game. Note the considerably more mellow tone and lack of confrontation. Note the overall towny behavior.

these?

I've also added the correct scum game link

I could MMMMAAAAYYYBBBEEE see where you get "I read a scumHouse game and he didn't self vote so he is town here b/c he only self votes as town.!" but I'm still a little skeptical.

Those are two. I think I've looked at 5 of his games total.

You've got such a bad conf bias against me, lol.

[TroubledTownie]

my conf bias against House worked out p well I'd say.

You're going to brag about your own confirmation bias?

This is scummy. You're already trying to frame my meta-understanding of House as suspicious, before you know a thing about it. If you're town, then you are trying very hard to make the data fit your preconception.

If hes town, then hes not trying to actively do that. I'd be a bit more peaceful about you if you hadn't kind of sat on the fence here after calling Nero scummy directly.

For the record, What you are describing sounds like what I'd expect from town Nero

I don't know his meta, but if that's his town play, it's crap town play.

I'm not fence sitting, Math is just much higher on my list. That would be clear to you if you were caught up...

[TroubledTownie]

Why were you willing to meta House but not me?

I don't meta read every player, I only do that if their meta becomes a factor.

If you and AP are going to say that your conf bias is just part of your town play, then do me a favor and link some examples.

[TroubledTownie]

Your case against House was crap, you kept badgering on and on about him not answering you, when he had(you just weren't satisfied with it).

My case was actully really good. I know it was good b/c it was right.

B doesn't follow from A in this instance.

In this conversatiion (1274-1279)

^^
that is specifically not town. He

WAS

dodging giving me a straight up answer for why he thinks Math was town. Yes, 1148 was kinda sorta an answer but "Because it's easy as hell for scum to rationalize voting me when I'm town." is really really looks like "Math is voting me b/c she would if she was scum" and if that's not what he meant its ambiguous as hell. Tell me what you think he meant.

We've been over this.

[TroubledTownie]

He was saying what he said. It's easy for scum to use House's town play against him. Math wasn't doing that, and House took that as a town-tell.

[TroubledTownie]

I'm not fence sitting, Math is just much higher on my list. That would be clear to you if you were caught up...

I mean you called him scum and then proceeded to give yourself a way out of the read by going after his townplay in the way you are.

I see. I try not to get into conf bias by only reading people from one side. Also, I didn't call him scum, I said that particular post was scummy.

[TroubledTownie]

Your reads are very compelling shos

pirate mollie

you need to either contribute or replace out.

Everybody else needs to vote Math. elusive pinged scummy, Math pinged scummy. Easy.

[TroubledTownie]

pirate mollie you need to either contribute or replace out.

Why do you not think she is scum lurking?

She could be, but right now that's an insignificant path to wander down.

[TroubledTownie]

I don't see why.

On a scale from 1-10, a player lurking is about a 2. Things like elusive's over-defensiveness and Math's desire to push a lynch without easily-obtainable information are about a 6. You don't focus on the small kinda-maybe-ish reasons when you have large much-more-likely reasons.

[TroubledTownie]

and thats why

scum lurkers always win

^^

[TroubledTownie]

lurking is nullish though lurking is also a common scumthing and meta wise I think Mollie is far more active as town. Though I don't expect TT to know Mollie's scum meta but I felt think him not really suspecting Mollie makes me worry that he KNOWs Mollie is town.

You're still on that conf bias, huh?

Lurking is a reason to get a player replaced, not lynched. Look at my newbie game(we had 3 lurkers in 1 slot replaced... town player), I would much rather get a new person who will contribute than resort to a policy lynch.

[TroubledTownie]

lurking is nullish though lurking is also a common scumthing and meta wise I think Mollie is far more active as town. Though I don't expect TT to know Mollie's scum meta but I felt think him not really suspecting Mollie makes me worry that he KNOWs Mollie is town.

Mollie isn't going to get replaced unless she volunteerenly outs or breaks her prod timer. At what point does her lurking become "scummy"?

You act like there's a line... there's not.

Lurking is always anti-town, so it's always suspicious at best. The longer the lurking goes, especially if it's active lurking, the scummier it becomes.

[TroubledTownie]

I don't see why.

On a scale from 1-10, a player lurking is about a 2. Things like elusive's over-defensiveness and Math's desire to push a lynch without easily-obtainable information are about a 6. You don't focus on the small kinda-maybe-ish reasons when you have large much-more-likely reasons.

I am having a hard time engaging with the game and have said so and have reached out to the players that I know so how exactly is this scumlurking?

If you're town, you're not doing us any favors. It's up to you to get in the game. If you can't do that, replace out. I'd much rather have a townie who reads the thread and contributes.

If you continue just posting, essentially, prod dodges, then I'm gonna take that as a scum tell.

[TroubledTownie]

sorry but I don't have a scum pt/qt whatever the fuck they have to explain a goddamn thing to me so I have to sort this on my

Sorry, but I don't have a lot of empathy for someone who won't read the thread 'having to sort through this on your own'. You

can't

without reading the thread.

also...who exactly am I pl-ing?

I'm saying I don't want us to have to policy lynch you.

erm, this isn't what I am doing at all?

like not at all in way shape or form?

why are you trying to nix my efforts to get into the game?

Yeah, it pretty much is. You haven't posted anything remotely useful for 10 days, and even then it wasn't much other than pulling a Nero=town read "out of your ass" and then "blatantly sheeping" him.

Spoiler: Nothing

hi guys

wats going on

tl;dr version cos I am not reading any of this shit

I am town and House is scum now sheep me

nero I need more than that perfunctory kiss!

tl;dr version cos I am not reading any of this shit

We don't need a second replacement who's not going to read the game...

too bad.

I am asking for a tl;dr version do you think can produce 1?

I am still not reading the previous 40 pages but I am just going to pull this out of my ass and say nero is probs town.

First off Its Pirate Molly..Yeah ( Now you better not be scum)

Second...I am not lurking as much as being distracted. Totally jacked up on Pepsi,,,, ADD and Pepsi a perfect combination ( Not).Also I am Human bc I always play Human when I play WOW.

I feel like I stumbled into a private conversation that some1 is having with themselves here. I have no idea as to who this is directed to or even what this post is about.

is ozgin scum? why are they in red? why is titus's name in funny colours?

I am going to die of old age before a lynch actually happens aren't I

I have 9 new wrinkles while this thread happened.

I am having a very hard time getting engaged with this game. nero, ap, shos cld you plz be dears and help me get engaged?

[TroubledTownie]

erm, the "nero" read was not something I pulled out of my ass, I read the page I replaced on and the 2 preceding pages as well as the playerlist. nero looked town.

I was just quoting you:

I am still not reading the previous 40 pages but I am just going to

pull this out of my ass

and say nero is probs town.

[sarcasm]You read 2.5 pages,

AND

the playerlist? Wow, so helpful![/sarcasm]

it wasn't "10 days" before I did anything. why are you trying to misrep me? cos that is what you are doing.

Quote me something useful you've done since the 5th. I quoted all your useless garbage, there's no misrep.

just cos you fail to understand what I am doing doesn't mean I am not doing anything.

It would be funny if it weren't sad. Enlighten me then. How does 'Ehrmegerd I'm getting wrinkles this is taking so long' and 'Help me contribute plox' help town at all?

you seem to think that I shld play the way you want me to. do you think that I am scummy for it?

No, I think you should play, or leave. Pull up your ISO and look at it. It's almost all

nothing

. Even easier, just

open the spoiler

in my previous post, it's all there.

[TroubledTownie]

I find the way that TT and fuzzy attack mollie scummy. It is hard ebough to replace into a 40-page game, moreso now that it is 70. The sinple answer to yiu two is give us time. You just dont policy lynch, is that hard? Use the info that you DO have.

Mollie, joon me on TT. Ive gotten a scumread on him earlier too.
VOTE: troubledTownie

I agree, you don't just policy lynch.

That's why I haven't been pushing a policy lynch.

Yes, it's hard to replace into a 40-page game, but mollie refuses to read those 40 pages, then complains about not knowing what's going on. Please, explain to me how that's not anti-town? I don't want to PL her, I want her to contribute or replace out.

Do you always play this bad? You think it's scummy that I don't like anti-town behavior?

[TroubledTownie]

No, but I think the level of delegitimization and attention you gave mollie for simply not playing

how you want

is just a way to appear like you're hunting scum.

FIFY

You're being ridiculous. I'm not focusing only on mollie, but

I will not leave a player alone if they refuse to RTFT, and don't contribute

. In the last 10 days, she's basically done nothing but prod-dodge.

It sucks having to wait for players to catch up. I want Math lynched, but I need you and mollie to read through Math's play in D1 before we can discuss it.

[TroubledTownie]

However, since you're actually engaging, I do have a few questions for you.

TT is scum too.

Care to elaborate? Naked reads aren't very helpful.

No I don't make illegal requests to mods when scum beg me to fix their fuckup. I just vote them.

What do you think of this entire push by Math to get Titus lynched? Math explicitly refused to ask the mod to clarify about his own racial ability, while using that imperfect knowledge to push Titus as a liar.

[TroubledTownie]

You asked math to talk about math

No, I was asking shos what he thought of that post by math.

[TroubledTownie]

I'm not misrepping you mollie, but you keep saying that. When I quote your own words showing that I'm not, you ignore it.

sorry but I don't have a scum pt/qt whatever the fuck they have to explain a goddamn thing to me so I have to sort this on my since I subbed into the game without a hydra. so i am here floating on my own with only a townread on nero but I am hoping that shos and ap will respond to my reach outs since I know them pretty well.

This looks like complaining. Just like every other player, you have to figure the game out for yourself, but it's

so hard

because you don't have anybody to help.

pedit - wow. At least you're engaging someone.

Yes, I know what prod-dodging is. It's posting useless crap to prevent being prodded. I already quoted all your useless crap, but you just ignored it.

[TroubledTownie]

You read the thread mollie?

[TroubledTownie]

Speaking of misreps... I posted that because I took it as complaining. I didn't call you scum because of that... I didn't call you scum at all, in fact.

Yes, it bothers me when a slot doesn't contribute. It's anti-town. It bothers me when someone keeps saying they aren't oriented, don't know what's going on, but won't read the thread.

You're ignoring a ton of available information. That's anti-town.

No, we haven't played together.

[TroubledTownie]

I dont know about TT but my goal was to pressure PM to post stuff that will help the town read her. Since she doing thst I am going to back off.

I think I made that very clear the multiple times I said I either want her to start contributing or replace out.

That OMGUS though...

[TroubledTownie]

You'll have to excuse me for a sec here, but, as far as I know, this:

...

Shows that despite "doing nothing" her vote was on the correct wagon. So however long she takes to start playing, you could use the rest of the playerlist for your scumhunting. And I didn't even mention the fact that I think Math is town, so that was the vote that made the wagon break through over math's wagon..

please.

Please. She pulled a Nero=town vote out of her ass(her words), and then blatantly sheeped him(her words). Just because that happened to be a good wagon doesn't mean she's not being anti-town.

She went 10 days after that vote without doing anything other than post total crap. I still don't know why you're taking issue with me trying to get a slot to participate.

pedit - No, we wanted Math to ask about the ability, not ask the mod to change his with multiple colors. I take that 'illegal' as Math desperately trying to push that wagon without anybody clarifying the point with the mod.

It's scummy as hell that he was only willing to ask the mod(how is asking the mod a question via PM ever illegal???) once he started getting votes on his wagon specifically because of that.

[TroubledTownie]

@ mod - can we plz have a vc? ty

First off Its Pirate Molly..Yeah ( Now you better not be scum)

Second...I am not lurking as much as being distracted. Totally jacked up on Pepsi,,,, ADD and Pepsi a perfect combination ( Not).Also I am Human bc I always play Human when I play WOW.

I feel like I stumbled into a private conversation that some1 is having with themselves here. I have no idea as to who this is directed to or even what this post is about.

is ozgin scum? why are they in red? why is titus's name in funny colours?

I am going to die of old age before a lynch actually happens aren't I

I have 9 new wrinkles while this thread happened.

I am having a very hard time getting engaged with this game. nero, ap, shos cld you plz be dears and help me get engaged?

I have engaged you mollie. You throw around accusations and ignore my responses.

[TroubledTownie]

EBWOP ugh I'm getting sick of this. Ignore the quotes in my 1801.

[TroubledTownie]

TT, your 'engaged' is at best a ring-thing, lol. you basically just yelled 'READ THE THREAD'. you think I did read it?

I hope you read it, it can only hurt the town if you don't.

I've poked and prodded mollie and refuted the claims that I was misrepping her. There's not much else to do with a player who won't read what's already happened.

[TroubledTownie]

Did I miss something? How is a vote for mollie going along with the town?

[TroubledTownie]

Buy: Tier 3

UNVOTE:

Math wagon isn't going anywhere, I'm going to re-evaluate.

[TroubledTownie]

You mean my mislynch isn't going anywhere so you are going to see who else you can push as a mislynch? *sigh*

VOTE: TroubledTownie[/b]

I'm sorry Math, but if you really are town, your play this game has been horrible.

[TroubledTownie]

Ok Math, what exactly is scummy about Titus? After your initial derp-wagon on her, I think I just haven't been paying attention to the reads you've made.

[TroubledTownie]

ABR JOINS THE RAIDING PARTYYYY

Let's be honest, this game wouldn't be complete without a tribute to Leeroy Jenkins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hooKVstzbz0

[TroubledTownie]

ABR, did your read on acryon ever change, or did your read on the slot change when AP joined?

[TroubledTownie]

Oh FFS, laptop crashed right before I submitted my post.

I was looking at shos' ISO, and it doesn't look very townie. Posts only naked, or effectively naked reads, on NC, kiwi, titus, Math, and myself. His only decent-looking scumhunting is his push on me, but I can't believe a townie could possibly be that lazy. Look at the reasoning he uses.

• 1 - I'm scummy for my pressure on mollie(trying to get a non-contributing slot to contribute is scummy?), because "You just dont policy lynch, is that hard? Use the info that you DO have." At no point was I pushing or encouraging a policy lynch. On the contrary, I specifically stated multiple times that I
  didn't
  want one, and that was why I was pressuring mollie to contribute or replace.
• 2 - When I pointed out his error to him(remember, this is the
  only
  reason he's provided for me being scummy), he ignores it. Completely. Now he says I'm scummy because my pressure on mollie is "just a way to appear like you're hunting scum." This is similarly ridiculous, since I never said or did anything to try and pass that off as scumhunting, and it's not the only thing I have been talking about.
• 3 - When I corrected him again, showing how mollie hadn't contributed, he starts white-knighting her by pointing to her vote on House as proof that she's playing well for town. Problem with that(which he conveniently ignores as well) is that mollie's vote was "blatantly sheeping" nero, who she pulled a town read on "out of her ass" after refusing to RTFT.
• 4 - In an ironic twist, the only other little thing he posts that vaguely resembles scumhunting, is a criticism(Appeal to Ridicule) of my insistence that mollie contribute and read the thread.

VOTE: shos

[TroubledTownie]

EBWOP

It's worth mentioning that I had also had problems with GGG's play(He used elusive's font color as a scum-tell, and then criticized one of her posts as a "superreach invented case". When he was questioned about it, he avoided the question, and shortly after stopped contributing. Doesn't look like sincere town-play either.

[TroubledTownie]

hey TT, why did you decide to read my other games?

[TroubledTownie]

Why?

What games are you talking about?

[TroubledTownie]

I'm just asking you why you decided to read any of my other games. Why are you playing like House and dodging me?

I don't know what you're talking about.

[TroubledTownie]

What do you mean you don't know what I'm talking about? I'm asking you what made you decide to go read my other games.

I mean: I don't know what you're talking about. Quote the post of mine that you're referencing. I don't recall reading your meta.

[TroubledTownie]

huh? Are you an alt? I also haven't lurked this whole game.

No,

just looked at a few of your games.

You mentioned that lurking is your scum-play.

You're pretty much active-lurking. Most of your posts could be replaced with 'yeah, I'm here, see I'm town'.

yeah I'm ok with this dying today.

vote:TT

I love your persistence, can't let anything get in the way of that conf-bias.

Thank you though, now I know what you're talking about. It's quite useful to quote what you are referring to when it happened weeks ago. I thought this had something to do with our most recent exchange where your meta was brought up.

You were starting to look suspicious, mainly because your lack of substance. You had a lot of short, hollow posts, I wanted to see if that was normal for you.

[TroubledTownie]

can't let anything get in the way of that conf-bias.

nope

It's really sad, how proud you are of it.... but simultaneously so hilarious.

I wanted to see if that was normal for you.

So you lied about not metaing me. Why?

No I didn't. I said I didn't recall, because I didn't remember doing that until you quoted it. As I said before, I figured you were referencing our more recent conversations when your meta was brought up.

[TroubledTownie]

you didn't, eh?

Why were you willing to meta House but not me?

I don't meta read every player, I only do that if their meta becomes a factor.

So I guess your story is now that you DID meta me...and then forgot. right?

Yeah, I did a short meta read of you last month. If you want to reference something that happened more than about a week ago in a game, I need you to quote it so I can refresh my memory.

[TroubledTownie]

TT metas me and then forgets.

Not impossible

. I will have to think.

I'll be honest, I'm actually surprised by that... what happened to your conf bias?

It's because of medications I'm on. They make me foggy and affect both my short-term and long-term memory.

[TroubledTownie]

What was your meta read of me? What games did you read?

Not entirely sure. I opened up these:

Micro 174 The Half Baked Curse
Mini 1451: A Memory of Light
NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia
NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple
Bookshelf Mafia

and scanned your ISO in 2 or 3 of them.

[TroubledTownie]

EBWOP

The biggest thing that popped out to me was your mentioning that you lurk as scum, and contrasting the amount of content. That's why I mentioned that you seemed to be active-lurking.. just a lot of short, superficial stuff.

[TroubledTownie]

Must be a hellova lurk, having most posts in the game.

Active lurking is when someone is posting a lot, but effectively still lurking. Posting naked reads, off-topic, filler, etc...

TT, you attack those and pnly tgose wgo scumread you, it seems.

Seriously, if you're town, stop with this lazy 'scumhunting'. That's so contrary to the actual history of the thread that it's just pathetic.

I've voted, questioned, and attacked bad play by ABR, elusive, bankai, oz, kiwi, and Math. None of them were scumreading me at the time(at least, not that I recall off the top of my head. ABR was pushing a bunch of people, bankai was OMGUSing anyone who voted for him, elusive was voting kiwi, oz was pushing ABR, kiwi was attacking acryon, and Math was attacking titus.

Notice, again, what you haven't done. You haven't responded to the points I've made and your BS that I've called you on. Just ignored it, and came up with another superficial, patently-false accusation against me.

Also, you appear to like the 'not superactively scumhunting' as a reason to call someone scum.

Have you any scumreads based on any other axcusation of anyone?

No, if someone isn't scumhunting, I call that anti-town. If someone isn't scumhunting, but is trying to look like they are, then yes that's scummy.

I'm not really sure what you mean by your last question.

[TroubledTownie]

Seriously, let's lynch shos. Just flinging crap, trying to redirect onto new crap when I point out that it's crap, no sincere reads or scumhunting...

[TroubledTownie]

Oz looks town. Shos looks incredibly scummy. I'm still on board for lynching Math as well.

VOTE: Shos

[TroubledTownie]

Damn it!
TT, why am I scum suddenly?
Ill be here in a while?

You're not 'suddenly' scum, this happened D2.

[TroubledTownie]

care to repeat why that is, then?

Flinging complete crap hoping something will stick, avoiding all the valid points I've made and trying to misdirect, only putting forward the faintest attempt to appear scumhunting, defending anti-town behavior.

[TroubledTownie]

Buy: Tier 2

[TroubledTownie]

Because my reads don't. And I am hoping more people will give me that chance or the smart people vote Tier Three. If people with bad reads vote Tier Three I Unvote.

It seems like you're trying to step up to the plate and replace ABR

BTW, what's chaingunning?

[TroubledTownie]

That's also directed @TT - Scumread on shos? Can I get an explanation?

Just look at my ISO, I've outlined the reasons in D2, and made a tl;dr on the same page as this post.[/quote]

[TroubledTownie]

Oz, quit with the ad hominem... it doesn't help your case at all.

[TroubledTownie]

Mod: Can scum get the items town elects?

When gear has been bought it will go to the Ungeared Raider with the highest-roll on a d100 loot system.

Since House had a different title than town, I think it's safe to assume scum has a unique title as well. Town gear rolls only go to town.

[TroubledTownie]

House, the Tauren Druid, has been lynched, he was an

Ungeared Hacker

[TroubledTownie]

kiwi, what do you think of shos? Have you noticed how artificial his scumhunting looks(shallow, demonstrably false reasons, moving goalposts, ignoring valid points)?

[TroubledTownie]

Oz isn't making very good points, but it looks like his townplay to me.

[TroubledTownie]

I probably shouldn't because I consider lurking scummy. I will probably have a better read

once she defends herself

.

Why are you resisting Ozigin?

That's the point... shos didn't defend himself. He replied to my posts, but ignored every valid point I brought up, and instead attacked me from a new shallow angle.

[TroubledTownie]

All the relevant posts are quoted in the spoiler below.

In 1760 shos votes for me for pushing a policy lynch. In 1768 I correct him, reminding him that I've specifically been trying to get mollie to participate so we wouldn't have to resort to one. Shos never responds to that point.

Instead, he accused me of just pushing mollie as a way to appear to be scumhunting in 1769. I correct him, pointing out that I haven't been trying to pass that off as scumhunting, and that I've been doing other things as well. Shos never responds to that point.

I engage shos in 1771, asking him to share his reasoning for his initial scumread on me. Shos never responds.(None of his early reads were explained, it was just active-lurking shallow bs).

Shos defends mollie's play as being good because she was on the house wagon. I point out that, in her own words, that was because she pulled a Nero=town read "out of her ass", and "blatantly sheeped" Nero's vote. Shos never responds to this. (Noticing a pattern?)

Instead he makes another filler pot-shot at me in 1806.

Ah, I forgot to include this one. In 1904 shos accuses me of only attacking people who scumread me. I showed how ridiculously false that was in 1905. Shos never responds to this.

Spoiler: Reference

I find the way that TT and fuzzy attack mollie scummy. It is hard ebough to replace into a 40-page game, moreso now that it is 70. The sinple answer to yiu two is give us time. You just dont policy lynch, is that hard? Use the info that you DO have.

Mollie, joon me on TT. Ive gotten a scumread on him earlier too.
VOTE: troubledTownie

I find the way that TT and fuzzy attack mollie scummy. It is hard ebough to replace into a 40-page game, moreso now that it is 70. The sinple answer to yiu two is give us time. You just dont policy lynch, is that hard? Use the info that you DO have.

Mollie, joon me on TT. Ive gotten a scumread on him earlier too.
VOTE: troubledTownie

I agree, you don't just policy lynch.

That's why I haven't been pushing a policy lynch.

Yes, it's hard to replace into a 40-page game, but mollie refuses to read those 40 pages, then complains about not knowing what's going on. Please, explain to me how that's not anti-town? I don't want to PL her, I want her to contribute or replace out.

Do you always play this bad? You think it's scummy that I don't like anti-town behavior?

No, but I think the level of delegitimization and attention you gave mollie for simply not playing

how you want

is just a way to appear like you're hunting scum.

FIFY

You're being ridiculous. I'm not focusing only on mollie, but

I will not leave a player alone if they refuse to RTFT, and don't contribute

. In the last 10 days, she's basically done nothing but prod-dodge.

It sucks having to wait for players to catch up. I want Math lynched, but I need you and mollie to read through Math's play in D1 before we can discuss it.

However, since you're actually engaging, I do have a few questions for you.

TT is scum too.

Care to elaborate? Naked reads aren't very helpful.

No I don't make illegal requests to mods when scum beg me to fix their fuckup. I just vote them.

What do you think of this entire push by Math to get Titus lynched? Math explicitly refused to ask the mod to clarify about his own racial ability, while using that imperfect knowledge to push Titus as a liar.

No, but I think the level of delegitimization and attention you gave mollie for simply not playing

how you want

is just a way to appear like you're hunting scum.

FIFY

You're being ridiculous. I'm not focusing only on mollie, but

I will not leave a player alone if they refuse to RTFT, and don't contribute

. In the last 10 days, she's basically done nothing but prod-dodge.

It sucks having to wait for players to catch up. I want Math lynched, but I need you and mollie to read through Math's play in D1 before we can discuss it.

You'll have to excuse me for a sec here, but, as far as I know, this:

Looking for an acryon replacement.

Patch 1.1.7 Vote Count

MathBlade (4):

GGG,

T

i

t

u

s

,TroubledTownie, Xombie

House (4):

Nero Cain, kiwieagle, MathBlade, pirate mollie

T

i

t

u

s

(1):

ABR

kiwieagle (1):

Ozgin

Nero Cain (1):

House

Not Voting (2):

TheFuzzylogic99, acryon
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Tier 1 (8):

House, Nero Cain, TroubledTownie,

Ozgin

, pirate mollie, TheFuzzylogic99, GGG, acryon

Tier 3 (3):

ABR, kiwieagle,

T

i

t

u

s

Deadline: Day 1 ends in (expired on 2015-02-10 11:40:00).

Shows that despite "doing nothing" her vote was on the correct wagon. So however long she takes to start playing, you could use the rest of the playerlist for your scumhunting. And I didn't even mention the fact that I think Math is town, so that was the vote that made the wagon break through over math's wagon..

please.

You'll have to excuse me for a sec here, but, as far as I know, this:

...

Shows that despite "doing nothing" her vote was on the correct wagon. So however long she takes to start playing, you could use the rest of the playerlist for your scumhunting. And I didn't even mention the fact that I think Math is town, so that was the vote that made the wagon break through over math's wagon..

please.

Please. She pulled a Nero=town vote out of her ass(her words), and then blatantly sheeped him(her words). Just because that happened to be a good wagon doesn't mean she's not being anti-town.

She went 10 days after that vote without doing anything other than post total crap. I still don't know why you're taking issue with me trying to get a slot to participate.

pedit - No, we wanted Math to ask about the ability, not ask the mod to change his with multiple colors. I take that 'illegal' as Math desperately trying to push that wagon without anybody clarifying the point with the mod.

It's scummy as hell that he was only willing to ask the mod(how is asking the mod a question via PM ever illegal???) once he started getting votes on his wagon specifically because of that.

TT, your 'engaged' is at best a ring-thing, lol. you basically just yelled 'READ THE THREAD'. you think I did read it?

[TroubledTownie]

so whose scum for you TT?

I can see tt ozigin math... maybe. Maybe either ozigin or math trying to get attention away from shos?

I mean the fact that Ozigin suddenly is willing to "set me aside" because hes scum scared of getting lynched just proves me he is scum but now the issue is getting him lynched.

shos, math, tfl are the ones I'm most suspicious of.

[TroubledTownie]

VOTE: TT

What made up reason are you going to come up with this time?

[TroubledTownie]

add misrepping with that posts above but meh

You're going to accuse me of misrepping? That's choice.

I really, truly, sincerely hope this isn't your town game.

same made up reasons from earlier

Ah, great.

[TroubledTownie]

I also find ozgin scummy for joining my wagon. At this stage pf the game, voting a replacement because they don't catch up in the way you think everyone ahould is scummy enough(TT),

Are you ever going to stop misrepping me? I didn't vote you because you didn't catch up in the way I think you should, I voted you because your 'case' against me is shifty, shallow, and full of bs. Every time I've called you out for making shit up, you've just ignored it and thrown a new pile of dung.

[TroubledTownie]

I've already addressed them, I believe,

You haven't addressed a thing.

I have more stuff to do than address those shitty arguments. TT's ignored a 60-page game just to follow a trail of "oh there are two peeps who replaced in and haven't done enough yet". I can't see how you can't see that.

No, I've been involved for the whole game. All you've done is put up this horrible townie facade backed by the worst scumhunting of the game.

Lynch all liars, shos lies by making up crap about me, now lies about having addressed my points, all of which he's ignored.

[TroubledTownie]

But I haven't been here the whole game. in the part of the where I *have* been here, aka page 60+ or so, you haven't done shit but complaining about me and mollie, one at a time or both. it's like the 'whole game' didn't happen!

and re: what I have done, what do you mean 'townie facade'? last I checked, I was defending mollie from your bullshit for a long while; and I read up from page 43 and onwards, and from that I got a scumread on you, a townread on kiwi and a townread on math. the fact that you pushed me and mollie like a duckface only helped promote my read on you.

and you clearly have no idea what lying means. I *lie* by making up crap on you? learn your english, lol.

You've ignored every point I've made, and continue to just make shit up.

You never explained your scumread on me, until you lied about my position re:mollie. You said I was scummy for pushing for a policy lynch, but I was explicitly speaking out against one. Then you jumped to a new piece of bull, then a new one, then a new one. Like claiming that I only attack people who scumread me... complete and utter bull.

Because of the crap facade you've put up, you're my biggest scum read, so get used to it. I'm going to push until you're lynched.

You lost the chance to prove yourself a member of town long ago, you've shown literally no interest in sincere scumhunting.

You lie when you say you've responded to all my points, you literally ignored all of them.

[TroubledTownie]

and you clearly have no idea what lying means. I *lie* by making up crap on you? learn your english, lol.

EBWOP

Yes, that's called lying.

a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

If I did the same thing, and made something up about you(like, you're so scummy because you called mollie partner), then that would be a lie as well.

[TroubledTownie]

Math, how are you fixating so much on one small thing, and ignoring shos? Almost every post he's made has been complete crap, but you and others are letting him coast off that.

[TroubledTownie]

Because labelling something crap doesn't make it so.

Titus you and Ozgin seem to be a well oiled machine agreeing on who to attack then switching when no one agrees. First me then shos. Who next I wonder?

Titus -- Already did. Too bad you're too lazy/tunnel driven to want to read it.

I've been very specific about what is crap, and why. I can't see how any townie could, or would, ignore it.

I'll look at Titus and Ozgin again, but do me a favor and look at shos. I've outlined each problem of his play twice now.

[TroubledTownie]

One point at a time then Math. I'll do all the work too.

I also find ozgin scummy for joining my wagon. At this stage pf the game, voting a replacement because they don't catch up in the way you think everyone ahould is scummy enough(TT)

shos is saying I voted him for not catching up in the way I think he should have. Here is where I voted for him:

Oh FFS, laptop crashed right before I submitted my post.

I was looking at shos' ISO, and it doesn't look very townie. Posts only naked, or effectively naked reads, on NC, kiwi, titus, Math, and myself. His only decent-looking scumhunting is his push on me, but I can't believe a townie could possibly be that lazy. Look at the reasoning he uses.

• 1 - I'm scummy for my pressure on mollie(trying to get a non-contributing slot to contribute is scummy?), because "You just dont policy lynch, is that hard? Use the info that you DO have." At no point was I pushing or encouraging a policy lynch. On the contrary, I specifically stated multiple times that I
  didn't
  want one, and that was why I was pressuring mollie to contribute or replace.
• 2 - When I pointed out his error to him(remember, this is the
  only
  reason he's provided for me being scummy), he ignores it. Completely. Now he says I'm scummy because my pressure on mollie is "just a way to appear like you're hunting scum." This is similarly ridiculous, since I never said or did anything to try and pass that off as scumhunting, and it's not the only thing I have been talking about.
• 3 - When I corrected him again, showing how mollie hadn't contributed, he starts white-knighting her by pointing to her vote on House as proof that she's playing well for town. Problem with that(which he conveniently ignores as well) is that mollie's vote was "blatantly sheeping" nero, who she pulled a town read on "out of her ass" after refusing to RTFT.
• 4 - In an ironic twist, the only other little thing he posts that vaguely resembles scumhunting, is a criticism(Appeal to Ridicule) of my insistence that mollie contribute and read the thread.

VOTE: shos

That having been said, let me ask this question: Is what shos said in 2037 crap, or not?

[TroubledTownie]

@titus, does MathBlade resist commenting or voting their scumbuddies?

[TroubledTownie]

also I feel tt is making better points than shos but shos like tumbled into the game and is trying to get up but tt kicks him back down

still if I had to choose I would vote shos

BS. He's making stuff up about me, refuting that isn't 'kicking him down'.

If he wanted to get up, he would stop using made-up reasons to vote me, and he would have a response for my calling out his crap. Instead, he just ignores it.

[TroubledTownie]

wow

alright, no point in pointing out all the other lies he's cooked up if you're not even able to acknowledge objective facts.

Not that it matters to you, but
1)Ludicrous. I was pushing you, engaging Nero, engaging titus, engaging AP, and yes, pressuring mollie to contribute.
2)You think I misrepped him? ::facepalm::
3)It wasn't just 'not reading the thread'. She wasn't doing anything. She went 10 days without posting anything other than prod dodges. Her only vote was sheeping a read she pulled out of her ass.
4)It's so sad you either can't recognize, or can't acknowledge, the crap he's posting. You just avoid the details like he does.

[TroubledTownie]

You know what Math, I'll give you one more chance to accept facts.

Shos said I was scummy for pushing a policy lynch on mollie. Was that crap, or can you quote where I did?

It's simple. It's not out of context. It's yes, or no.

I'll give you a hint:

sorry but I don't have a scum pt/qt whatever the fuck they have to explain a goddamn thing to me so I have to sort this on my

Sorry, but I don't have a lot of empathy for someone who won't read the thread 'having to sort through this on your own'. You

can't

without reading the thread.

also...who exactly am I pl-ing?

I'm saying I don't want us to have to policy lynch you.

erm, this isn't what I am doing at all?

like not at all in way shape or form?

why are you trying to nix my efforts to get into the game?

Yeah, it pretty much is. You haven't posted anything remotely useful for 10 days, and even then it wasn't much other than pulling a Nero=town read "out of your ass" and then "blatantly sheeping" him.

Spoiler: Nothing

hi guys

wats going on

tl;dr version cos I am not reading any of this shit

I am town and House is scum now sheep me

nero I need more than that perfunctory kiss!

tl;dr version cos I am not reading any of this shit

We don't need a second replacement who's not going to read the game...

too bad.

I am asking for a tl;dr version do you think can produce 1?

I am still not reading the previous 40 pages but I am just going to pull this out of my ass and say nero is probs town.

First off Its Pirate Molly..Yeah ( Now you better not be scum)

Second...I am not lurking as much as being distracted. Totally jacked up on Pepsi,,,, ADD and Pepsi a perfect combination ( Not).Also I am Human bc I always play Human when I play WOW.

I feel like I stumbled into a private conversation that some1 is having with themselves here. I have no idea as to who this is directed to or even what this post is about.

is ozgin scum? why are they in red? why is titus's name in funny colours?

I am going to die of old age before a lynch actually happens aren't I

I have 9 new wrinkles while this thread happened.

I am having a very hard time getting engaged with this game. nero, ap, shos cld you plz be dears and help me get engaged?

[TroubledTownie]

You're unbelievable. I can quote shos, and then quote myself, showing that he's the one misrepping me, but you won't listen. I make very clear, numbered points, and you say I'm just insulting you and adding nothing to the thread. Then you accuse me of misrepping shos(by quoting him???), twice, but you don't bother to explain it.

If you find people aren't listening to you, maybe there's a reason. Town can't get anywhere with players who can't even acknowledge the facts of what has been posted and what hasn't.

I'm tired too, this is an awesome setup that has been plagued by non-contributing posters, non-contributing replacements, and out-of-thread communication. Give a damn if you want, it's your choice. I give a damn which is why I'm trying so hard to get you(supposing you're even town) to acknowledge lazy, scummy play. But you won't.

BTW, engaging a player doesn't mean you're looking to lynch them, I was pointing out that I wasn't exclusively focusing mollie like you said. Hell, that doesn't even make sense.

1) IMO it isn't that you're scummy for poking Molloe it is that you were doing it to the exclusion of all others.

1) That is my point. You look to be lynch shopping rather than scumhunting.

So which was it, was I exclusively poking mollie, ignoring everything else, or was I lynch shopping?

[TroubledTownie]

also...who exactly am I pl-ing?

I'm saying I don't want us to have to policy lynch you.

Where I learnes english, saying "dont make me hurt you" means you want to hurt. If you say that and then take it back that doesnt help you.

Also, funny how many times you repeated the same 10 days rhythm in your iso

Like aeriously ctrl f 10 ahahahaha


Fucking phineposting

Ohhhh, I get it. All you have to do is take the opposite of what I said and that's what I really said!

That must have been what I meant when I said it here too:

Lurking is a reason to get a player replaced, not lynched. Look at my newbie game(we had 3 lurkers in 1 slot replaced... town player),

I would much rather get a new person who will contribute than resort to a policy lynch.

Did it really take you this long to come up with an explanation for your initial reason for voting me?

[TroubledTownie]

The useof "have to" and "resort" in both your posts is main cause. You're aaying "i dont qant to, but i have no choice"

[TroubledTownie]

You said I was scummy for pushing for a policy lynch, but I was explicitly speaking out against one.

You did? Because I remember you pressuring mollie over... policy an awful lot.

I pressured mollie to contribute and stop with the 'I'm not engaged' 'This is taking forever' 'I'm getting wrinkles' kinds of posts.

[TroubledTownie]

you kept nullifying that vote becaise it was just sheeping. Well, sprry to be rhe one to break it for you but, if I vote scum, it dpea not matter why I vpte scum.

Where is your scumhunting un the rest of the players? Who aee scum "with" me and mollie?

Yes, it does matter why you vote scum. If all you do for the whole game is sheep one player, then you're not being a good townie.

Where did I say mollie was scum? Can you make a single post without misrepping me?

[TroubledTownie]

I'm not really sure what you mean by your last question.

I ask what other scumreada you have, which do not have the same argument for them as for mollie and me.

E.g.
X is scum because post Y has acum intentions, i do not find this sincere, contradicta self in poay Z, etc. Like ACTUAL scumhunting, and not shallow shit like you throw on me.

Lol, this is choice.

I've explained my scum reads multiple times, you and Math are the leading contenders.

Ironic that when I asked you to explain your naked reads, you respond with "not going to go through the entire game for you. Mescuzzy"

[TroubledTownie]

1) I did explain the misrep. I was brief about it and did not wall.
2) Go look at shos's posts if you need them.
3) You can still push exclusively while lynch shopping. It is called attempting to dominate the thread with talk of said person while also asking certain types of questions when doing so at the expense of any conversation you don't want being shut down.

1) No you didn't, you just called it a misrep.
2) Lol. I've quoted his posts, and you've ignored them.
3) Oh, I see. Exclusively and non-exclusively together.

[TroubledTownie]

I voted Tier 2 as well, but it wasn't counted.

Buy: Tier 2

[TroubledTownie]

TroubledTownie - I think is almost 100% town. Active scumhunting, never has really given me a reason to read him as scum, always provides decent points to his arguments, etc.

I agree a lot with his arguments against shos

.

...

And the way that I've made these reads in my head (I'm at school and don't have time to comb the ISOs for examples), it's a readlist such that if I'm dead wrong about shos, if he's lynched and pops up town, then my reads will completely flip upside-down and that list would then be ordered scummiest to least scummy, because my reads are centralized around the conflict observed between TT and shos...

Oz, that's an extremely flawed thought process.

If you agree that shos is pushing me with crap reasons, then him flipping town wouldn't suddenly make his reasons legit. The two are independent of each other.

[TroubledTownie]

Sorry, this is starting to get old, shos and math and I going over the same things over and over. I'm not going to respond to either of them anymore, their play is just painful.

Shos has to insist that I meant the exact opposite of what I said for

one

point of his case against me to make sense, and that ignores all the other points that I've shown to be complete crap.

[TroubledTownie]

mollie was contacted by ABR outside the game, so her slot is being replace IIRC. We haven't had much from the mods since kj has been in the hospital.

[TroubledTownie]

@TFL

Everything you need to know about shos is in 2002. Constantly making complete BS up to attack me, and ignoring every time I refuted him. Now he's finally responded by saying my pressure to get mollie to contribute or replace was actually me pushing a policy lynch, because opposite day or something.

[TroubledTownie]

You said I was scummy for pushing for a policy lynch, but I was explicitly speaking out against one.

You did? Because I remember you pressuring mollie over... policy an awful lot.

I pressured mollie to contribute and stop with the 'I'm not engaged' 'This is taking forever' 'I'm getting wrinkles' kinds of posts.

holy shit, you honestly edited the name of the poster???

No, that's the quote caching problem I have. Should have been Angry Pidgeon and post 2087.

[TroubledTownie]

Lol, I already answered that question earlier, but you ignored it(surprise, surprise, surprise).

You're confusing causation. A player sheeping another player all game isn't guaranteed to vote scum every time. In fact, the more players there are that sheep, the less the game is really mafia. If everybody sheeped one player all game, that wouldn't really be a game of mafia, now would it?

[TroubledTownie]

Ugh, I forgot I wasn't going to keep responding to that crap

[TroubledTownie]

Huh

Starting with 1.6 both Titus and TT are both on the Math wagon and don't move through out the day
on day 2 both Titus and TT are on the Math wagon and remain so until ABR messes up and ends the day
On day 3 Both Titus and TTT jump on the Shos wagon and remain so.

There votes are exactly the same starting with 1.6
Maybe its me but there is something fishy there

Ok, first of all, what kind of scum strategy would that be? Let's always vote exactly the same?

Second, why are you not commenting on shos? I asked you for your thoughts(implicitly, but I thought it was clear enough). If you agree that shos is scummy for the reasons titus and I do, then what would be suspicious about that?

[TroubledTownie]

I basically want an explanation for the VC. Why are TT and Titus exacrly the same. If it is sheeping than what about each other that makes each other trustworthy( especially since this started in Day 1) Why did you both( Titus and TT )move off Mathblades when she seems to be your biggest scumread for day 1 and 2. I dont think that I am asking too much.

You can ask titus for her reasons for her vote, I've outlined mine for Math and shos multiple times. I've outlined shos' misreps of what I've said multiple times. Apparently titus agrees that shos has been throwing crap, and if you agree, you should be voting for shos too.

I moved off of mathblade because another possibility showed up, and the math wagon didn't look like it was going anywhere. My read of math hasn't changed much.

[TroubledTownie]

my case on TT, in a nutshell can be something like attacking the lowest hanging fruit as a piniata. I haven't seen him attack anyone that isn't me or PM the entire last 40 pages. basically, it's like the 40 pages we weren't here weren't there. he keeps saying that is false but all he points out is to before that. Since then, his push against me has just been making me feel better with my read. and I'm not one to go OMGUS.

I never pushed pm as scum, so quit with linking you two together. I've already corrected you on that several times(and you've ignored them all)

Yes, I've been focusing on you since you started your lame dung-throwing against me, because your play has gotten more and more scummy. Your allegations that I was only focusing on mollie earlier, have been proven false. Once again, you ignore the points that have been proven wrong, and try a new tactic.

[TroubledTownie]

Honestly I disagree with Shos reasoning if he voted for TT based on TT push on Molly. This is bad reasoning but I do not nessarilly see this coming from a scum POV.From my view it seems like everything is coming from a frustrated town POV. If you can show me where I am wrong than I will be wiling to listen.

Alright, you disagree with shos' initial reason for voting me. Let's look at everything else:

shos accused me of only attacking those who scumread me. I posted an overview of all the players I had pressured during the game, and only 1 of those times actually fit that allegation(shos). Shos ignored this.

shos started the game with completely naked reads, and even after I challenged him to explain them. Shos ignored this.

shos accused me of only pressuring mollie, and trying to pass that off as scumhunting. I corrected him on that as well, I was very active with other players during the same time. Shos ignored this.

Shos asked me about my other reads. I gave them. Shos ignored this, and later pressured me again as not having any other reads.

Shos repeatedly says I have been scumreading mollie. I never scumread mollie. I corrected him multiple times. Shos ignored this.

Shos accused me of misrepping him(didn't bother to say how or when), but I've been quoting him. I pointed that out, shos ignored this.

Shos accused me of trying to policy lynch mollie, because I said I would rather she contribute or replace than having to resort to a policy lynch.


Do you think there is real town motivation behind consistently making shit up, ignoring when it's been corrected, and making new shit up? Sincere townhunting doesn't work like that. If I accused you of only having OMGUS scumreads, and you replied showing me how only 1 of your scumreads had been scumreading you, I would acknowledge that. I would say something like 'Oh, my bad'. I wouldn't just ignore it and attack you from a new angle.

[TroubledTownie]

shos, if you're town, it's going to make me cry. You have to ignore the entire thread("You're only attacking people who scumread you"), or take the opposite of what I say(Please start posting real content or replace out if you can't get engaged = LETS POLICY LYNCH THIS LURKER!!!)... if you're town, you're lazy as hell to just make shit up instead of paying attention to what's actually happened.

I'm focusing on you because on a scale from 1-10, you're acting like an 11. There's no town motivation behind your pathetic attempts to paint me as scum.

"I just ignored your posts because I was busy(bull, you still had time for posting new shit about me every time I refuted the old shit), or disagreed(bull, if you're town, and you accuse me of scum because X, and I show how I've been not-X, then you would not ignore that)".

[TroubledTownie]

@TT: I was phoneposting from work, man.

So? irrelevant.

and i'm reminding you I haven't read pages 1-40.

Here's a problem. A huge problem.

Say I replace into a game at page 50, and I don't read the thread. Then I notice playerX scumreading playerY, and later playerY scumreading playerX.

If I'm town, I think to myself "hmmm, is that valid, or is it OMGUS? I wonder if he's done that before?" So, I pull up his ISO, see who else playerY has been attacking, and checking to see if they were scumreading him first. When I find that this isn't the case, I realize that's not a valid path to pursue, and drop it.

Where would the town motivation be in attacking playerY for 'only attacking those who scumread him', when I've only read 1/20th of the thread, and really have no idea whether or not that's right?

If I'm scum, and lazy, then I might just try and push that angle and see if it sticks.

Which motivation do you think was behind shos pushing me for exactly that reason, without bothering to check the thread to see if it even applied first?

[TroubledTownie]

TT.
I'm sorry. but you'll have to accept that many people don't read up the entire thread when they replace into a game.
when I defended mollie that was while knowing your 'case' on her,because you literally spelled it out, so yeah, I assumed I didn't need to read for that.

Also take a look at titus' posts of late, tell me what you think.

Yes, I get that, but that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making was you pushing me as scum for a reason, without even bothering to check my ISO. There's no town motivation to do that. If I think you might have been consistently behaving in such a way, I'm going to pull your ISO and pull quotes, rather than just accusing you based off of the 2 pages I have read.

And I never had a 'case' on mollie. This is what, the 4th time I've corrected you? Mollie's play was anti-town, but I wasn't reading her as scum.

Titus seems to understand that we could have a pretty hard time getting a lynch today, and is trying to move town in that direction.

You've changed your vote, but not once...

not once

have you acknowledged when I have corrected you. Every. Single. Time. you've just ignored it.

[TroubledTownie]

Lol, subjective. Yeah, it's real subjective whether or not I was pushing a policy lynch or trying to avoid one. Oh wait.

Yeah, it's real subjective whether or not kiwi was scumreading me before I scumread him. Oh wait.

Yeah, it's real subjective whether or not I called mollie scum. Oh wait.



You should run for office, you'd fit in pretty well.