Mini 1643: World of Mafiacraft (End)

[elusive]

My question is that is it possible for scum to get the gear? Since it states randomly chosen based on a roll, does that mean an ungeared scum could get the item\power? Or did I miss something?

Also, vigilante always better than cop. Scum can mess with cop powers if they have abilities whereas there's something beautiful about that lone vigilante making a hard choice and taking someone down.

Buy: Tier 3

[elusive]

Oh and Jailor is awesome too and can seriously help win a game. Does jailor in this version have a "execute" function?

[elusive]

Vote: Nero Cain

Dangerous to whom?

[elusive]

We have 20 tokens toDay.

T1 costs 8 tokens and leads to a 1/3 possibility for rolling Cop (worth it), Tracker, Watcher (latter two less worth it)

So 8 tokens for a 1/3 chance at cop.

T2 costs 10 tokens leads to a 1/3 possibility for Doctor (meh, needs to go to someone who has the skills to protect the right person), Bodyguard (meh, see previous but dies in the process), Bus Driver (can be a boon or a negative)

So 10 tokens for a 1/3 chance at doctor.

T3 costs 12 tokens but leads to a 1/2 possibility for Vigilante (depends on how many kills\what limits and whether day\night) or Jailer (can function like doctor but also as a roleblocker).

Let's say we use 12 out of 20 tokens today. We get a vigilante or jailer fo sure.

That leaves 8 tokens next day plus 2 for a town lynch (meaning 10 tokens) or 8 + 4 (scum lynch) which would give us another 12 to work with for Day 2. Let's pray to the Gods for scum lynches all the way through.

In an ideal perfect world that would never happen we could:
Day 1 - Get a vig or jailer
Day 2 - Get a vig or jailer

@killerjester aka Lead Developer, can you clarify any of the following:
1. It states that "There is no limit on the amount of times the town can purchase from a Tier. When gear has been bought it will go to the Ungeared Raider with the highest-roll on a d100 loot system. " - Does this mean that scum are excluded from voting\purchasing and receiving gear?
2. Will the player who is "geared" learn of this privately or publicly?
3. How does rolling work? Is that done on the developer or player side?

[elusive]

Thank you, Lead Developer. I have more questions:
1. Are the roles continuous or one-shot? For example, can vigilante make a kill each night (or day?) Can jailer or cop or doctor use their ability each night? 2. Any other mechanics involved once a person rolls the role with the votes that may be important?

Based on the Lead Developer's response, I'm assuming that scum are not eligible for roles. That would be too OP, I would think anyway.

So, with the thought that town will definitely land one of the roles does that change any of the T1 voters? Can you also explain your short term and long term logic of that vote (and discuss the probability factors as well).

We basically have two easier attempts to get a role in terms of loot\funds. After that we will have depleted our fund and need to build them up over consecutive days. Therefore, the first two Tier votes are important.

I like Rampage's logic on the vig keeping players on their best behavior as well.

TheFuzzy, why did you feel the need to defend House? Any particular in-game reason?

Nero, darling. Hi there.

[elusive]

elusive is this your first game?

This is a scary question. Why are you asking this?

The answer is no. On mafiascum, it's technically my second game. I'm also in a newbie game but there's so much lurkerage I signed up for this one so I guess they're concurrent.

I've played in other places too before this.

[elusive]

I have not played in games with this mechanic, although its kind of exciting.

Do the mods usually reveal whether or not town could potentially screw itself over through this mechanic?

Also, you mentioned that certain Tiers were "dangerous," would you explain why?

[elusive]

The above is responding to Nero.

[elusive]

Nero, why would or wouldn't that question be acknowledged? However, if scum is able to get gear then that means scum probably doesn't have many power roles of there own or there would be to much OP going on. Yes?

eyestott's explanation makes more sense then yours since he's working out the logic\numbers and also just a "safe" game. Also, I thought about the 3p thing too because in the example it says "You are pro-town" which makes me wonder what the semantic difference is between "town," "pro-town" etc.

I'm inclined to take risks so I like Tier 3 but if its possible for scum to get geared then perhaps Tier 1. It would be terrible odds though in a 12 player (3ish scum?) game for scum to roll gear.

[elusive]

Further thinking, so let's say 3 scum (could it be be 4?). Are all 3 ungeared or just 1 or 2? My mind won't do numbers well right now but it seems unlikely that all 3 or however many are ungeared because who is then doing the NK? At least one scum must have the NK ability and therefore not be ungeared?

[elusive]

At least one scum must have the NK ability and therefore not be ungeared?

why?

I mean let's say no scum have any gear or abilities. Then, tonight they would have no night kills right? That seems a little bastardized? So then, technically we could just choose Tier 1 today and tomorrow the same thing and at best they might roll a info role but it would be kind of funny and broken? Does that make sense?

I enjoy asking questions, like one million of them or more. So....

[elusive]

Nero, why would or wouldn't that question be acknowledged

no mod will ever answer anything that gives away to much setup info.

I'm inclined to take risks so I like Tier 3

If you believe(d) that scum couldn't get gear what risk do you believe we are taking?

This is the bottom line for me. Like we'd deff use a cop/watcher and still most likely tracker tonight. A vig, we'd maybe not use right away and I'm seeing no evidence for why town would be better served with buying a vig other to say "we bought a vig!"

Nero, start with post #30 of mine. I'm not sure. I feel like it would be too sad tbh for town to waste their funds to supply a scum. We only really have 2 strong chances to purchase from each tier and after that we are at about 0 and have to wait at least 2+ days. It just feels wrong but I'm not 100% sure of what is or isn't possible with this mechanic.

Then, while the obvious allure of vigilante there's also a 50% chance at Jailer which as already stated is also a good role. Jailer can function as doctor\protector and\or roleblocker. Jail a scummy person and see if there is no NK. Jail a person who they think is a power role or who has been outed as a town power role and viola doctor abilities. I just like Tier 3 the most.

eystott, there is a possible benefit for example if all races have the same racial ability. Since race itself doesn't determine alignment, a scum that was gnome or another race would know that gnome has the ability, for example, to "steal a vote" every certain number of days which may help them determine who to kill if they know everyone's races. At least that is what I thought in reaction to that discussion.

[elusive]

It's a 50/50 chance, Rampage. What would you do with jailer if that's what you got?

[elusive]

Oh and eyestott are you a Sylar fan or also a Zachary Quinto fan?

[elusive]

Rampage's single-mindedness sort of freaks me out a bit.

Unvote Tier Thing

acronym, my usual approach is to ask a ton of questions, some game related and some not, and get a "voice" for each player to intuit off but you're lucky I've decided to try being more analytic this game.

What are you an acronym for or of?

[elusive]

oh wow I totally say acronym instead of acryon, revised question: what does your user name stand for?

[elusive]

Crayon. I like it.

Noooooo. That's what one of my previous raid guilds always called me.

Acryon ( we can do this properly although "a crayon" is kind of cute with all the puns and stuff you could make) Do you agree with Rampage on the Tier thing and if so why?

Rampage, I expect nothing and everything. If the scum can get geared from town or if their tokens depend on town tokens then do you have any thoughts on that aspect? In a world where irony happens I imagine you being the first person to be vig killed.

[elusive]

In all likelihood I still vote for Tier 3 for reasons already outlined, just want to think about scum side stuff that other people mentioned. I don't like Tier 2, requires too much guesswork and chance. Also, 1/3 chance of doc means how would you even confirm that there was a doc so that a cop could come forward? I guess the other two could sort of protect the cop but idk seems iffy. Maybe as a 3rd-4th day thing. Tier 1, maybe but 1/3 chance for cop doesn't seem as good as 1/2 for jailer or vig. I guess we could do Tier 1 and Tier 3 or vice versa.

[elusive]

Oh a fun question for all players, town. Scum don't have to answer if they don't want to but I'd love town to respond:

If you could vigilante kill anyone in the game right now, who would you day murder and why?

[elusive]

Oh a fun question for all players, town. Scum don't have to answer if they don't want to but I'd love town to respond:

If you could vigilante kill anyone in the game right now, who would you day murder and why?

No one should answer this. I think it gives way too much information to scum.

What? Why?

To me it tells who people read as their top scum suspect right now?

[elusive]

And people not answering are scummy?

[elusive]

Oh, I know what you mean but if everyone answers it then that sort of precludes that possible thing?

[elusive]

Is Rampage being manipulative? I've been liable to sheep an actually manipulative scum and something about Rampage seems to "on a high" to seem manipulative. In my thinking either he is a reckless player (win all or lose all type) or this is some sort of gambit and a much smaller part of me thinks that he knows some scum info like if we use 12 tokens then they get 12 tokens. Inclination though is that scum wouldn't garner so much attention on themselves, particularly the way he is doing which sets him up for suspicion.

Fuzzykins, I await your response to my question. If you would like me to repeat it, please let me know.

bankaikiller, I have to reread to parse through that but right now this is what I feel:

Vote: bankaikiller

acryon, I'm still not sure why you shut down discussion that could have been interesting so I'll keep an eye on you little crayon. What color are you?

[elusive]

House is your read based on meta or ? I'm not seeing why your seemingly RVS vote is still the same and you haven't really questioned or focused on anyone else at all.

Vote: bankaikiller

Can I do color and bold for votes? I mean the only color we shouldn't use is the Mod's pretty blue, so other colors should be okay?

[elusive]

So much ninja'ing.

Acryon,
How does everyone putting reads out of some sort benefit scum more then town? Walk me through like I have a little itsy bitsy brain.

[elusive]

Ok, acryon, I see sort of what you're saying although it implies that people would be able to massively shift their game play without garnering attention. It would certainly get my attention. My thinking is that town and scum have to commit to one person reading as scummy to them which is useful for analyzing wagons and later play\flips\alignment. Then, with people saying so little what else would they say? We have a couple of topics for discussion:

1. Tiers and voting
2. Reads
3. Random fluff which while fun to me most people look down on
4. Idk?

[elusive]

House and Fuzzykins, questions for you are waiting. Whenever you have a time.

bankai, #236 makes me worry a little if you were a town pr or rolled gear.

Ozgin, 60\40 is basically "null leaning scum" which isn't a strong read. Any other reads? That psychological profiling tho...I will refrain from commenting.

Oh and I went from Townsperson to Goon which is horrifying. How do I get to choose my own title or is that like a 1000 posts later?

TroubledTownie, hi. Don't be troubled, drink some apple juice. Or try some Kiwi.

Oh, these are more questions

all for town

and hopefully acryon approves:
1. Where is your avatar from and why did you choose it?

2. Where is your user name from and why did you choose it?

3. What is your mafia experience?

4. Highest accomplishment or most proud moment for you in a mafia game?

5. Saddest moment for you in a mafia game?

[elusive]

Thank you for responding Xombie & TroubledTownie, if I were able to miraculously roll Vigilante I would not shoot either of you tonight.

Also, TroubledTownie...I wouldn't dare tell anyone what to do. I would just vaguely threaten or use Liam Neeson quotes

Vote: Tier 3

Faster then my bullet...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDTZ7iX4vTQ

Actually, bankai you were asked to vote for Ozgin. Why not him? Why acryon?

Ugh...based on that post. bankai are you a total newb?

Unvote

[elusive]

bankai, did you miss the memo where people of races could be any alignment?

try harder kiwi, someone else did.

[elusive]

Thank you for responding Xombie & TroubledTownie, if I were able to miraculously roll Vigilante I would not shoot either of you tonight.

Because I answered some random questions? lol

Well, it means that:
1. You don't have to get your teeth pulled to respond to questions
2. It won't be a pain to (fingers crossed) hunt you down later for Q&A's or interrogations or you know all the gritty fun stuff

[elusive]

I don't even understand the point of my ability.. for cosmetic effect? and I'll reveal anything about me even if it's not much, to prove that I'm town.

Bankai,

Oh my dear God. Take a deep breath love and don't put forth any more self-identifying information. Go read this, you develop your own thing but it might help you:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... e_At_Mafia



Xombie, I'll note down you like being interrogated.

[elusive]

It's bad because I'm laughing but also because I so want him dead tho. Like legit straight up under the ground dead. Like if I were the Vig right now he\it\she would be in the grave.

[elusive]

Stop it, guys. This is clearly town vs. town. Lock your votes on Ozgen and let's get our 4 points.

Don't start a trainwreck and then put your hands up when the explosions start. Own it.

[elusive]

Aww...cutie...you're going to have to try harder. It's like being barked at by one of those tiny purse dogs.

[elusive]

bankai, if you are town then chill. Like, tell me about your user name and what you mean by "twl mafia champion for subspace." I'm going to be honest, I'm not that good at this game yet so what are your strategies and stuff?

[elusive]

This is still a thing. I could think of other questions too. Obviously, scum need not apply.

Oh, these are more questions

all for town

and hopefully acryon approves:
1. Where is your avatar from and why did you choose it?

2. Where is your user name from and why did you choose it?

3. What is your mafia experience?

4. Highest accomplishment or most proud moment for you in a mafia game?

5. Saddest moment for you in a mafia game?

[elusive]

Actually, Nero you and Rampage are both ignoring that it's a 50/50 option of vig OR OR OR OR jailer. Having thought about it, jailer is actually the best kind of two roles in one combo. So, yeah discuss that.

As for the questions, I like to get to know people or I like them to die.

[elusive]

Vote: Kiwieagle

GGG, that's so harsh tho. Like you're hurting my feelings. Stop being so girly.

Nero, I usually ask them earlier. I tried a more game related question (Who would you vig shot right now) and acryon shut it down. So back to basics until I can think of other ones.

[elusive]

^

[elusive]

1: I am modding a game offsite where the mafia can kill someone and steal their ability, and have it for the rest of the game. the concept is based off

Do you have any actual useful questions?

eystott, what level of posting is needed? I only had the past three days off due to the blizzard so tomorrow its back to regular programming and a handful of posts\catch up in the eveningish or weekend. I could replace, is that okay with the rules and Mod stuff on here? You can PM me.

As for the second part, you're breaking my heart. I'll try very hard to come up with useful questions such as:

1. What do you think of Rampage and his detractors (House, Nero, Fuzzy)
2. Who are the people you think need to post more to get a solid read on?

Idk, what are some examples of really good questions?

[elusive]

Kiwi, can you give me a breakdown of playstyles that you are familiar with?

Would you like to know why I voted you? Mostly because of your bankai interactions. I mean he is a Character in himself but you're going after him seems like going after the weak\volatile person. I mean why not go after Rampage who set him off and on purpose?

GGG, hi there. Why do you not like purple? That just seems a bit...odd. Shades of pink and purple make it easier for me to find posts.

Nero, I think it's either personality or whether you like active or passive roles. Passive roles make me nervous and in Tier 2 (idk those roles are a bit meh to me and so chancy) and Tier 1(only 1/3 chance of cop - so what would you say if it rolled Tracker or Watcher).

Also, the first rule is to have fun and Vigilante is eminently more fun then the others. Like it may cut the game short but a short but fun and active game is better then a long drawn out not fun game.

Something about Ozgin, idk. Creepers.

[elusive]

I guess we disagree then, kitty.

[elusive]

@elusive

The colour seems like a look at how cheery i am i could never be scum ATE type thing. Do you have other games on site that you do this regardless of role

The main problem i have is the fluff questions that distract. How would the answers to any of those questions help you find scum

I already stated I'm in a newbie game and this game concurrently on this site. TBH I like colors and fluff and would do them regardless. I only have one scum game on another site, it was my first game ever, and it was a hot mess. Hopefully, one day I'll have an epic scum game so epic but not this game.

Secondly, I intuit. I'm actually learning some logic now hence the probability interest but its not my natural thing. I like vibes and knowing people helps me idk "vibe" them out. I am trying not to rely on this but its the more natural thing for me to do.

P.S. Being cheery is a good thing. If I'm not cheery then I'm probably sharpening my claws on someone so you should prefer cheery

[elusive]

{Sigh}

[elusive]

Thank you TroubledTownie, I think the difficult part is putting "intuition" with a case. In previous games, I've vibed a person as scum out but haven't been able to convince town to lynch them based on that so def. needing to find the solid evidence from posts.

Ozgin, you missed some of my interactions this game if you assumed I am being nice. Although, its funny to be accused of being nice for once instead of sassy or salty or otherwise Moody. In terms of your style or voice, I would state "artificial" or "somewhat patronizing."

Also, how does his bargaining make him seem scum? If anything it makes him seem town. He's so certain of his reads that he's willing to die for them tomorrow if they don't pan out. And I, for one, would hold a player to that kind of bargain.

Nero, what are you reads on other players. Who are your three scumspects? Particular things Rampage has stated or done feel town even if he's also got this Weirdness. I still want to see what others have to say about his meta. Does Rampage usually play like this? Still, I don't think he's a good lynch for today.

{Please don't let me white knight scum}

Umm, Xombie, I see your point although it would be hilarious.

[elusive]

Ozgin's name is red, he's clearly the mod confirmed scum.

There's some holes in your theory. I went back and looked at the shadowmelt stuff. Why would scum use shadowmelt? Based on the unwarranted confessions, Ozgin used his racial ability which is why the colors are like that. What benefit is it to scum to use an ability in thread? To alert other scum? To set up a fake claim? Just because he's got a an annoying voice doesn't mean that you don't either. In fact, Rampage, part of me wonders if you'll be NKed tonight because if not...then you are most likely scum. Try cases or you know not causing whiplash.

kiwieagle, it's not just the bankai thing although that's certainly part of it. You asked for a reason to discuss but then you disappeared. Also, when I see you decimate scum I'll believe, otherwise you've been coasting.

I do find it interesting that my vote on you make you feel uncomfortable.

[elusive]

LOL, LOL, LOL

bankai is my adorable pet. I'm going to put a collar around his neck and teach him\her\it new tricks.

You're way too defensive. Try scumhunting instead of talking the big talk

Oh and I don't think I entered any "retardfight" with anyone so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Here, simple question for you: What do you think of Rampage and Nero? What do you think of Ozgin and the whole discussion around him? What do you think of GGG aka Batman?

[elusive]

Awww.....we hurt your feelings....would you like a tissue? P.S. That was a rhetorical question.

Does anyone have any meta on Kiwi because what I see right now is fake drama like Pretty Little Liars style but without the subtle grace of female etiquette where a backhanded compliment is the preferred mode of destruction. Actually, my gut and my tea leaves says Faux Drama Hour regardless of what any possible defenders might state.

You kind of just did what I expected you to do. So yes. That OMGUS tho. It's like a cherry on top.

If someone else asks me to do a read on you, I will. Although, just looking at your posts there's so much ping ping ping.

Err...how do I multi-quote and ISO doesn't have post numbers? (Sorry, new forum new where is that button I know so well & can URLs be linked with text or why does <a href> not work?)

Based on your ISO here:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 1&sr=posts

It vibes me wrong. Also, something about you and GGG ping at me. I'll look more closely and find the echoes when I can.

P.S. Kiwi, you refuse to answer questions on the main drama in thread 1. Rampage Vs. The World (Nero, Ozgin, House, etc) 2. Ozgin engages in some Theater That Is Not Well Received By the Masses and Something Creepy About a Kimono 3. GGG is Discovered to Have Contradicting Opinions or a Fetish for Black and White Television.

Actually, if I had to describe your playstyle I would say that you refuse to engage in anything difficult (see Rampage's MadMan Victor Frankenstein Schtick) but pick the easier fruit to pluck. It's unfortunate that you did the OMGUS because that further solidifies what I feel in regards to your play.

And finally, you can't scum hunt me. I kind of have this thing as town, a kind of Joan of Arc vision and no one can deny Hallucinatory Voices that Compel You to Decipher Battle Formations.

Rampage, your vote on acryon makes me sad. He should be a mentor or something lovely like that. He has such a nice voice.

[elusive]

Are you some sort of hydra?

Awww.....we hurt your feelings.

No, I refer to my dark side as "we." Or when it's being particularly bad then It.

That reads list, it's very very controversial.

Also, taking the Lord's name in vain.

[elusive]

None of you find anything queer with acryon?

I will look again at a acryon tomorrow or Saturday but general vibe is likable. That doesn't necessarily indicate alignment. Do you mean queer or do you mean peculiar or do you mean something a bit more precise?

Kiwi, no. Ham.

[elusive]

I guess I might have to use /sarcasm but that somewhat defeats the purpose.

[elusive]

I don't think you want to try this with me, Rampage. While your title may be "illogical rampage" mine could be "volatile and relentless." Also, I think I won "Most Likely To Go To Far." Like 2x. I'll be here tho, so let me know. I won't stop, or in the words of Miley Cyrus, "We can't stop."

Kiwi, it's that kind of post (specifically #425) that makes responding to you a futile exercise in worthless endeavors. This exercise was not about me convincing you I'm town, I already believe in Me, it was to gauge your soul and the scale says No Go & Ham.

[elusive]

Damn you some dumb ass scum.

The above post and some of your responses to Bankai or your "retardfight" comment..all of it comes up to I don't particularly care what you think or say or dream of. The level of erudite philosophical musings on the banality of life and such and so forth are just sorely lacking and I really don't engage with those who don't reach a certain bar. Unless they're willing to be good little pets and bark on command.

Like if it was Mafijjy making the above post then you know like I might like actually be impressed because I saw a recent thing of his but when he does it, it's hot. Here it's just Ham + Ham.

Actually, you are coasting. Here's a run down of your reads.

Ozgin was brought up as suspicious by Rampage. Respond to my critique of his random BS color nonsense regarding the ShadowMelt ability.

Bankai was set fire on by Rampage who then backed off when Bankai spilled his guts. Do you think Bankai was faking that emotional response? If so who or what was the setup?

As for me, I think you thought I would be an easy target because of all the flufflove but I also really really like long sharp nails and drawing tiny little rivulets of blood.

Nero was also brought up by Rampage.

So are you sheeping Rampage or do you have any thoughts on someone he hasn't sprinkled with sugar\possibly arsenic.

Rampage, I'll accept that clarification for now. Although, for a moment there I thought we would have some fun. Maybe some other Day or game.

[elusive]

Kiwi, you called out bankai for failing at a faux scum emotional outburst but you then proceeded into one yourself because I didn't answer your questions within a 2-3 hour period. By that logic I should be in fits right now since most of the playerbase hasn't answered my questions but I'm still in "this is either a comedy or a tragedy." Oh and your emotional burst also seems fake or at the very least ironic considering you called bankai a padawan and yourself by implication a master at that kind of scum play. So he votes Bankai as scummy for a emotional outburst and then has one of his own with only one vote pressure on him? At least Bankai was being rifled with by a couple of people. Not buying it.

GGG, I need to look back at when you started finding me interesting, was it before or after I voted Kiwi?

80% sure on Kiwi scum. Trying to figure out if GGG picked up on me due to the Bankai interaction or to the Kiwi interaction. GGG, actually I do think that throwing out the most popular names or names under discussion by others is either sheeping which I expect from newbies or the underconfident or from scum who don't want to be seen as having any of their own strong reads. There are far more players in the game for someone to zoom in on the same ones that Rampage picked out of a hat. Also, he didn't at all address Ramapage's bad logic on the votal colors which implies not reading or caring. So therefore, can you find why he finds those people scummy?

Xombie, I don't play this game to be liked, it's why Ozgin using "nice" offended me so much. Scum are the only ones who may want to rely on nice. So you're advocating a lynch based on not liking a player over scumminess? It's unclear.

Also, I expect everyone town and scum to post "I'm town" at some point. It's the actions, behaviors, and mindsets that run concurrently with such claims that are important to me when assessing those claims.

Rampage, are you done turning the wheel and throwing darts? Also, you're going to have to do better than that since it's a little to one note. You can't fight fire with fire. I would like to know if you plan to address your "the votes are colored so he must be scum" nonsense since that would not even be a newbie statement.

[elusive]

It's fine if you don't care for my sense of humor or particular playstyle or choose to policy lynch me for it. I haven't purposefully demeaned or insulted anyone quite yet. Some it was jokey and some it was reaction testing.

What actually disturbs me is the refusal to answer actual relevant questions such as:
1. Rampage makes a comment about vote colors being a reason to vote Ozgin after inciting or pushing bankai into revealing that whole mechanic and doesn't feel like explaining why. Very strange.

And,
2. Answers such as obvious don't sit well with me. You may as well vote me out if you expect me not to call a spade a spade or to be abrasive at times.
3. I would state that its an anti-town mindset but its not a newbie game so it should be obvious.

Xombie, I don't always like players and I admire people who are blunt about things like that but I'm in this game to lynch scum not people who I don't care for. Good luck with your strategy. Oh and I don't ask people to defend me since at this stage in the game or most stages people should be able to defend themselves. In fact, I find too much defense of players to seem like buddying especially when there isn't a mason or other knows the role of the oracle type of role in play to be scummy.

The only caveat to that is knowing a players meta really well but even that has loose holes.

[elusive]

Ozgin, its a couple of things about him. I'm phone posting and will do a ISO case to tonight or whenever I can. Here's a quick summary to the best of my memory:
1. Bankai falls apart and kiwi eggs him on and gloats that Kiwi as scum could pull off an emotional gambit but bankai can't.
2. Kiwi claims he will decimate scum.
3. I put a vote on kiwi because of the gloat and something about the tone of that post felt smug, bankai had already erupted and kiwi chose him as a scum target after the fact. Also when someone boasts like that but doesn't pull through it pings me hard since what scum is is to talk without actual actions.
4. Kiwis reactions to my one single vote were ridiculously bad. Like I don't feel much pressure right now and I might be lynched toDay. Emotions are all steady, I've been tunneled pretty hard as town by town and scum so were still in the minor leagues.
5. Kiwi specifically mentions that he wasn't going to get emotional and gets really really emotional. For no reason which is why I called drama or theatrics. He just told a guy he's good at fake out frame then he does some totally crazy response to soft poke.
6. I refuse to answer his questions BC they are make a case on him and a parrot of my own questions. The answers he gave as I stated don't give any reads on his scum. I'm used to people making cases, if this is not the case in this game ya'll better lynch me quick because a person without cases...what is this Town of Salem?
7. Kiwi continues to get heated without reason. I may have poked hard but only after being called dumb ass scum which was part of the ongoing OMGUS. Oh and retard fight I didn't find that to be complimentary to me or bankai? Unclear who the second was.
8. His reaction to my deciding not to make a case, mostly because I was having technical issues makes him go off even more. Like patience.
9. His entire case on me is not answering questions and then going from small tiny posts to large ones. How does that make sense? What scum mindset can you figure out from those?

So therefore scummy acting scummy and petulant.

Oh and GGG, same thing for you. You find questions scummy, explain why. Then the post of yours that Ozgin quotes actually means that you can build a case on kiwi who believes that post lengths must conform or its scummy. Or at least take down his logic because thats what town does find areas where logic doesn't follow or where actions and words don't match up.

Rampage, what are you offering in return? The ability to spin straw into gold?

[elusive]

Or, TroubledTownie I thought he was making a statement since he didn't answer any other questions. I was thinking that he might actually start a tunnel and just letting him know, since I've been in tunnels, that that doesn't scare me. Unfortunately it does seem like he's town although so far his results are getting people to reveal their racial ability which scum would already know. Although, a link to the wiki would be good for when this doesn't pan out so people can update stats.

[elusive]

Can you give me a few hours at least till 8 pm EST before someone hammers?

House, really? I hate something or another.

@mod, how long is twilight and am I allowed to talk if lynched? I'd like to be able to do a last reads post.

I'm town. I'll claim my class and race in a bit.

Also, abr at least let me hammer myself in a bit. It'll be a first.

[elusive]

Rampage, are you willing to die tomorrow when I flip town? I'll hammer myself, right now in the next five minutes. It's 6:35pm as I write this.

I've never been lynched as town and I've always (over 5 games) played like this. Being lynched on day one is like anathema to me but if it's happening I'll hammer myself so that I have some badge of honor and also so town doesn't sheep you into oblivion.

As for the Matrix movies, there was great beauty in them...but Trinity and the baby die and in the end the status quo remains unchanged. And you're not Neo, you're a virus.

[elusive]

@Mod - Thank you, Lead Developer. The reason I'm asking about Twilight is that it's beneficial to town if there's a set amount of time (like players have until 4 hours after lynch to discuss and the lynched player may post). It's also more regular then, "Will there or won't there?" which could lead to just irregularity.

[elusive]

Nero, I don't have a strong read on you. I would have to look through everything since I was focused on Kiwi and GGG who both pinged me as off. I'm not going to provide some fake reads which I don't have.

Rampage, do you not have the balls to commit to your gambit?

It's anti-town to self-vote but it's more anti-town to allow you to make it seem like what you're doing is a good strategy since what you're doing is outing who the scum shouldn't bother to kill.

Yes or not to the self-vote?

[elusive]

I already told you I don't fucking stop once I'm on a train. So let's take this all the way or are you not capable of it?

[elusive]

I don't think you understood me clearly, Rampage. I don't stop. One of us will go down now. Nothing else matters.

[elusive]

All of my posts were town so the "oh your last post was town" is just BS, Rampage. Afraid now to commit to your guns? What happened to your Matrix analogy? Come one Agent Smith, put me down.

[elusive]

If I had a role where I could protect someone right now, I would protect acryon. I would die to protect acryon. He's not scum.

As for you, Nero's right about that. I'm sure you'll be wishing you had put me down because once again you're a virus. And why would I change my mind on kiwi? Why? Cause you said so? I think your reads are without merit.

[elusive]

And I'm highly suspicious of people who voted Tier 2 and kiwi was one of them so no, he needs to be watched. Tier 3 makes the most sense and then Tier 1 but wtf Tier 2 first, nope nope nope. I played a game where the role blocker blocked the oracle all game and I was a doctor who kept healing the godfather so just no.

I don't know what you are. I can think of town reasons to do this but I don't care for them and I can think of scum reasons for you to do this but they seem really risky.

[elusive]

You disgust me. Going away now before I break site rules but I'll be here later on and we can finish this game.

[elusive]

Also, its like people forgot Elusive existed and she just left randomly as well.

All that talk of the self-hammer for nothing.


Good luck guys.

So you refuse to scum hunt? Others have already posted regarding your self-contradictions. Have a strong read on anyone. Town, scum, etc. I believe that there are 3 scum in this setup. SO you may hunt at least 3 people. Ready, set, go....

I do find some people on my wagon opportunistic.

House, you voted me twice. Did you forget your first vote?

[elusive]

Yeah, if "Lynch All Liars" were in effect Rampage would be dead. Although, I imagine that his little cult will find a way to explain it.

House, I don't usually vote my annoyances. I vote scum. What little I know of your scum game, make me wonder. Where is your vote right now and why?

Also, Rampage...acryon is my top town read. For several reasons. One of them comes down to "not a dbag," you can supply the appropriate d word yourself.

[elusive]

Town is so damn fickle here and sheep-y.

[elusive]

Reasons acryon is not scum:

1. He is actually the first person ever to explain why something I was doing wasn't as pro-town in a way made sense and wasn't patronizing. It in itself was worth its weight in town cred.
2. He is not sheeping Rampage but he still reads him as town.
3. He wants to know the success rate of Rampage's gambit.
4. He isn't part of the Cult of Virus.
5. He isn't a Virus.

Oh and vibes. The vibes whisper "Good guy.'

Nero, how does your being in a newbie game matter in any way? What now?

[elusive]

Yeah, if "Lynch All Liars" were in effect Rampage would be dead. Although, I imagine that his little cult will find a way to explain it.

House, I don't usually vote my annoyances. I vote scum. What little I know of your scum game, make me wonder. Where is your vote right now and why?

Also, Rampage...acryon is my top town read. For several reasons. One of them comes down to "not a dbag," you can supply the appropriate d word yourself.

Hey, listen, I may have come off as aggressive, and I'm sorry elusive. I was suspicious, I wanted to appraise your alignment under pressure. I'm not normally like that. I'll be nice to you moving forward, I promise.

WTF @ the appeasing...

If you're going to be an asshole, commit to it.

I think he wants me to sheep him or something. Rampage, I'm not hindering you in any way. Keep doing whatever it is you're doing. Just don't touch acryon.

bankai, how lovely. I'll make some crowns of flowers and we can sit in a circle and sing songs and prance around like deer.

I have no issues with people being aholes. Sometimes, I partake in being abrasive myself as already evidenced.

[elusive]

Oh House, what was it that annoyed you in particular?

[elusive]

but He is the only person wanting to actually get stuff done for town

Zip it.

You're on Thin. Ice.

You're not in a cult? Are you sure?

House, can you point out where? Or remember what question? I'm very curious about things like that.

[elusive]

@Mod: Requesting replacement

Vote elusive

[elusive]

Vote elusive

[elusive]

The vote is because I would take it there and don't want the replace to have to deal with anymore of that nonsense.

[elusive]

And if someone hammers or whatever you'll have a scum in hand. That was the strategy, anyway I assume.

[elusive]

Please, you didn't cause this. I look at your posts and roll my eyes.

[elusive]

House, don't be silly.

Rampage's whole strategy was to sacrifice a town to figure out the scum team. I messed with this gambit with the self-vote. I'm helping my replace so that no one has to say to him or her, "Your predecessor claimed they would self-vote but didn't and so that makes you scum."

As I said, if anyone votes to hammer on the lead wagon that Rampage started and then hopped off of, that's your scum so it fulfills his plan. Unless you're now stating that his entire strategy is against win-con.

[elusive]

Who are you quoting, is that scum chat?

[elusive]

LOL, is that scum chat that he quoted?

[elusive]

Anything kiwi posted recently, I already rolled my eyes at since irrelevant.

But, I made no claims on not being emotional. You did. Then you backtracked then you went in a circle, then you made up a bunch of stuff.

House, the problem with Mod-kill things is you need to be clear about the rules.

"Playing against win-con" means purposefully helping the opposite faction. It doesn't mean "someone considers this a bad play" otherwise most of town in many games should be modkilled.

Threatening a modkill is really in poor taste by anyone and I don't do well with things like that.

[elusive]

Nero, I disagree on the T3 being the scummy stance. I can see now how T1 may make sense on the first day if only because we're being optimistic about getting the cop. 1/3 is still 1/3.

I think T2 is the scummiest stance to have on the first day. Let's assume everyone is an ungeared raider. How does having a doc or bodyguard first, without a role cop or jailer or someone of value to protect? That is the scummiest and most "safe" option for scum to hide under.

T3, especially the jailer is a great option since it gives a 2 for 1 (roleblock and doc so covering Tier 2) along with the Jailer actually being able to question the suspect and keep a record of actions\roles and maybe even direct some people. As for vigilante, having a vig in the game is great incentive for town to state "Don't lurk or the vig will get you" or "We get to lynch one and vig one today because both you have been scummy as fuck."

[elusive]

kiwi, you are contributing nothing to actual discussion but instead discussing yourself ad nauseum. Don't care.

[elusive]

You yourself stated that you didn't care which option was chosen which was why you picked T2....that in itself is so scum I can't even see why no one hasn't picked up on it. However, while Rampage protects you or ignores your massive scum slips or maybe tiny chance that you are town but inept but I rarely believe in things like that....I don't care.

Try discussing something relevant.

[elusive]

Like Xombie, but only magnified, you've made posts that show you aren't going to state or ask anything relevant or worth my time. If someone else asks the same exact question, I'll respond to it. I've been in tunnels where I've responded to every post\every item but those players were of a caliber that made me respect them even when it turned out they were scum.

Let me help you though,
1. Is there anyone else in the whole wide world you want to ask questions of?
2. Is there anything in the game other than me that you think it's important to discuss?

If no, ergo scum.

[elusive]

Ergo, scum.

Case closed.

[elusive]

That's very scummy to say Nero.

Why kill a troll, why not ask for a Mod replace so that (hopefully) competent town can take that slot?

Bad.

[elusive]

Please note that the reason for replace has nothing to do with anything any of you. We're still in the minor leagues in terms of actually emotion inducing stuff or stressing me out.

On the other hand, just looking at the problem makes me feel queasy even though it seems like a trick question.

Nero, buddying doesn't work on me. It makes me even more suspicious. As for TT, he's guilty of what he's accusing you of but more importantly I would rephrase that question to as, "Why are you still mostly fluff posting and why don't you have stronger ideas\thoughts\discussion?" Why is that you seem to be posting without much purpose or goals?

[elusive]

LOL at those Egos tho.

[elusive]

Holy damn, I was right about kiwieagle. Take that ABR and whoever else naysayed.

Also I replaced because in another game ika asked me where he knew me from and all I did was mention that I was in this game and the Mod sent me a PM which had a threat of modkill in it. I think Mods need some sort of sensitivity training or "Don't threaten people with modkills when they have not even broken the rules." Like seriously mentioning being in another game is a stupid thing to PM a player over.

[elusive]

Also now that I look at it, ABR modkill\ban sucks too.

[elusive]

"Compromise the integrity of the game" is so nebulous. Like what does that mean? In practical terms? If you can't detail examples of both and apply them across the board, what are you doing?

I also don't know why Nero (who mentioned being in another game in thread) was not modkilled for doing so twice.

[elusive]

I guess I see what you're saying in that he was asking her not to disrespect him in game but the rules seem to be arbitrarily applied across the board. What constitutes breaking the rules or not? Would it have been okay if he PMed the Mod first to ask? I've done that and let Mods know what I plan to say (well usually its an invite or something positive and not game related).

On the site forum the example is you can say "so and so is playing in three other games."

However, I never go to Mods for help unless I've established some trust relationship with them by them showing they won't abuse their power. When approaching players Mods need to be really calm. Mods aren't in the game, they're outside of it as this kind of neutral or helpful entity and when you go into "Modkill if you do this" or "Threats" then you're not being a good Mod.

I can see ABR getting a warning but a ban or modkill? That's just showing disparity. What about the fact that a player was rude to him, that the Mod agreed on, was that a Modkill worthy action? The site rules also state something about players not intending to insult others.

I was in a newbie game where one player stated she was fine with cursing\being cursed at while another said she couldn't deal with it. The rules seem flexible and kind of open to interpretation to a degree that Mods should err on the side of caution or at least be consistent and not actively antagonize players.

[elusive]

I avoid going to Mods in general, ika. I don't respect authority unless it's earned and that takes time to develop. It might be a personal issue.

That's the thing though, a player may think what they're saying is not offensive but a player can find it to be offensive. Such as pet names. What then? Who does the Mod protect - the player who is offended or the player who is playing a game that is not like other games? I mean most competitive games can have some trash talking but mafia is almost engineered towards it.

I guess its very different from Mod to Mod and that's how you figure out who's games to in for and who to avoid. There's plenty of both, games and players.

[elusive]

Well, when I saw ABR modkill I thought he must have done something heinous and automatically thought mollie was a victim which as it turns out isn't the case. Therefore, the dissonance in modkilling one and not the other especially if the message itself compromised reads and also as someone else pointed out skewed town view of players and their alignments.

Lol, ika in RL authority is a lot nicer to me except in one particular case so maybe I'm spoiled.

Anyway, ika and Titus - I was right about kiwieagle being a scum and even tunneled him a bit but I couldn't get town to listen. How do I make it happen?

[elusive]

killerjester, by that order though Nero Cain in post #671, #680, #706 are all about him being in another game with one of those posts being the post he would post in that game. Also, the tone of your post which you're welcome to post here was quite rude.

People on this site do talk about ongoing games at times. Such as above. Either the rule is "Modkill anyone who does so in any way" by which standard Nero Cain broke the rule thrice or "It's okay to talk about being in a game but not particulars" which one of the site rules page states. Either way the "I'm going to modkill you" would probably work better if "Hey, I know you didn't break the rules but this site's rule (link here) are really strict and I don't want you to cross a line inadvertently so this is a friendly reminder." Warning, threats, and ultimatums bring out the worst in some people. Just saying.

I don't know what ABR posted but I agree that PMing the player rather then the Mod or in thread was probably not the best idea. Though his modkill is still sad.

Titus, I did good on my first newbie game here (which ended so I can totally talk about it). Like town won because of me and this other person. It was really cool.

[elusive]

Let me know a game that catches your eye and I'd be up for hydra

[elusive]

The pm the mod sent me was for mentioning being in another game. All three posts are from Nero about the newbie game he was is which ws ongoing therefore he broke the supposed rule 3x.

[elusive]

Nero, because the Mod in thread warning came around your posting of the jokes, I took them seriously. Oops. Still think there was a nicer way to send that first PM so I wouldn't lose my ineffable cool.

Mastin, I'm confused as to what you're saying?