Open 587 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[texcat]

VOTE: TheCow with the silly hat

[texcat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vettrock cause random voting shouldn't really be random

[texcat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vettrock cause random voting shouldn't really be random

what makes this
not random

not sure what you're asking
voting Vettrock for using a random number generator
dislike random number generators even during RVS

[texcat]

So people stop voting ABR and start voting Astinus, I'll sort ABR's play later. I'm familiar with it.

This is scary in any number of ways. First that you think you can sort ABR's play. I can't imagine being able to do that. Second, that you think we should trust you enough to do it. But I'm looking forward to your ABR reads anyway.

Hi. Welcome to Open 587. I think we're still in RVS but possibly getting some early reads.

This is the second time you've said this. Might you possibly share some of those early reads and clues with the rest of us?

V/LA on weekends.

VOTE: Sup-Zero

Reasons later.

And still waiting for these reasons...

Hi.

yeah?

who I should be paying attention to do you think

Late arrival and this is all we get?

[texcat]

@archaebob, I hope you are going to answer your own survey!

1. A handful
2. Not getting close to 9000 yet, but old, older than vettrock.
3. I am still amazed everytime I hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button and I get exactly what I was looking for.

[texcat]

We have thoughts but we won't share until later.

Mostly until I'm off work.

-shinobi

The "better vote" in 10 made no sense. I'd like to hear Sup-Zero's explanation for that.

I told my other head about my experience with Astinus and suggested that we wagon her.

Do you still have thoughts to share or was this it?


Re: the venge kill
I certainly will give my opinion on who to venge kill, but ultimately it will be the lynchee's decision, and no amount of discussion will change that.

[texcat]

I was scum and ABR was town. Then ABR was scum and I was town. I remember town ABR being very close lipped, particularly early in the game, and scum ABR being a bit more loquacious, but ? Is this what you're asking? As I said, I find him difficult to read.

[texcat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sup Zero

Unexplained vote on Astinus based on some previous game?
Claimed to have some thoughts to share, but never did.


I'm also not very happy with archaebob's naked vote and fluffy posts.

[texcat]

@Sup, I'd certainly like to hear more about why Astinus would be a good player to look at, but I guess I can wait until Friday.

[texcat]

I see 2 credible cases, Morgan's on Teapot and Arch's on Vettrock. Both, it seems, are mostly for posting a lot without posting a lot of content. It's hard to disagree with either one. I'm definitely glad that Arch stepped up and explained his vote on Vettrock. I'm leaning much more to the town side on him now. And I'm leaning town on Morgan, as well. I don't like Teapot's sudden vote on ABR, the leading wagon atm, with only the explanation that ABR doesn't look like town. And there's not much in Vett's posts to like.

I do, however, wonder if we are not lynching the loud, and letting the quiet scum slip by. With three scum, I'd almost guarantee that at least one of them is in the quiet pile. We have several players I have no read on at all. I forgot Slimer was even playing. And TheCow? I've got nothing from him at all. Zmpf we've seen a little more from and doesn't really worry me at the moment. SupZero was very quiet until I voted for them, and then they suddenly started posting and sheeped onto the Vettrock wagon. ABR is expectedly quiet, but jumped on the Vett wagon.

I like the cases on Teapot and particularly on Vett, but we've got some time left and I'd like to see to see more.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TheCow
I'd like to see where you stand on anyone.

[texcat]

texcat: "I see two credible cases and I have townreads on the people who made those cases, but I'm going to doubtcast both of them and attempt to redirect attention from loud scum to quiet scum."

Did I really just read that.

And why Cow in particular?

You say you like the cases, but you are deliberately trying to pass off the scummy people as simply loud instead of scum.

Walk me through your post.

It was more of a current reads list. I guess I was not very clear. I was trying to specifically say that I liked the cases and wasn't trying to argue against them and in fact will probably come back to voting for one. But quiet people make me more nervous than loud people, and here are the people who seem to be slipping under the radar and my thoughts on them. Cow, in particular, because of 98 where he said he had more to say, but was waiting for others to chime in before saying it.

[texcat]

I don't get it. The ABR wagon was not too fast, the Vettrock wagon was the one that went too fast and Teapot jumps off one and onto the other. I just don't get it.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Teapot

I'm not forgetting TheCow and Slimer, though. I'd still like to hear from both of them.

[texcat]

I don't mind being lynched, I like to vig kill.

We'll see about that.
Texcat, do you see any similarities to his scum game with you?

I'm way too lazy to read old games. My gut read from my memory is still town rather than scum. But I've said that I find him difficult to read; I didn't see that much difference in his scum game to his town game or to this game. They are are similar. You were the one who said you could sort him.

So people stop voting ABR and start voting Astinus, I'll sort ABR's play later. I'm familiar with it.

This is scary in any number of ways. First that you think you can sort ABR's play. I can't imagine being able to do that. Second, that you think we should trust you enough to do it. But I'm looking forward to your ABR reads anyway.

For someone who seems so certain about things, you've done quite a bit of flip-flopping recently.

[texcat]

I am back from the dead. Does anyone have any specific questioning they would like to do about me?

[texcat]

I've been meaning to ask. Does the D1 Vengekill actually help or hurt town odds overall? I'm not so good with the spreadsheet maths.

I've got think it almost always hurts town. Scum are going to wagon someone who is not likely to kill them. It's one of the reasons Teapot got raised on my scum list. She's been changing her suspicions, and I think it's to avoid lynching someone who will revenge kill her or another scum.

Cow is so fucking obvious scum, what the hell have you guys been doing?

Hard to disagree with this.

Teapot is fucking town you nimrods

Please start posting more people, lurking is bad.

You seriously think new scum is going to post this shit and be super active and scumhunting

Teapot is NOT a new player(see post 107). If you're townreading her based on that bad assumption, you're wrong.

[texcat]

Fluff posts aren't really alignment-indicative unless there's meta to back it up.

It's not the fluff posts that bother me. It's the lack of other posts. It's the lack of opinions on people. And in particular there's no vote. Sitting on the sidelines waiting to see which way the wind is blowing? Looks like scum to me.

[texcat]

Catching up...
First, it bothers me that Teapot is so insistent that an ABR flip will confirm Teapot's alignment. (330 374) I don't like it one bit. It sounds too much like scum bussing for the town cred to me. It's hard to believe that they are both scum, but I'm not going to be rushing to put Teapot on my town list in any case.

Well then I don't know what to think of you

*shrug*

I'll look at you later then with that in mind

I guess you still haven't looked at this, since you "don't get it".

Ftr I think the ABR wagon is kind of lame and based on hypotheticals. I think that the points brought up,

especially

the ones in regards to him being "bored" or whatever, are exceedingly thin.

If I voted ABR, it would only be so he could shoot one of the people fencesitting between him/Teapot because I sincerely doubt that both wagons are scum, and the people who are insinuating that they are are the scummiest players thus far.

Ebwop.

If I had to vote between the wagons right now, I'd vote Teapot over ABR unless giving Albert the vengeshot is our goal here, which isn't actually that bad of a plan imo.

Very bad plan. Better plan: let's just lynch the person that ABR would have killed. We can kill them without having a dead ABR in the middle.

how do you feel about pisskop at this time?

Same question to Albert, Teapot, and anyone else who feels like answering.

Droog looked pretty townie. Pisskop's not looking nearly so townie, but he's a long way from the scummy side of my list.

[texcat]

VOTE: Herodotus WTF? You don't understand how it works, and it appears unreliable, but you vote for me anyway?


I do have a browser window on my desktop with a tab for each game that I'm playing and it stays on 24/7. I do the same thing on my Kindle. I have no idea which one said that I was here while I was sleeping. My desktop occasionally reboots itself at midnight if it has installed updates, but it doesn't look like it did last night. I use my Kindle every night to read a few pages in my book before falling asleep.

[texcat]

I know NK analysis is generally unfruitful, but I feel compelled to do it anyway... Looking back at Arch, nothing stands out as a reason for scum to kill him. He was at one time on all of the major wagons, Vettrock, ABR, Teapot, even Herodotus. He started the case on Vettrock, but never seemed to go back to it or push it after it fizzled. He did go back to ABR, but his vote was still only L-2. I'm not sure how much danger he was really in. I'm thinking it might have been to throw enough suspicion on ABR to get him lynched.

[texcat]

This game has become a lot less fun now that I am under suspicion for something I can't defend myself against.

I guess that Vengekill thing paid off. At work, will get a good post out after.

VOTE: TheCow

[texcat]

My opinion of SupZero is tinged with a whole lot of OMGUS. I was originally suspicious when they said they had thoughts to share, but would do so later. Later came and went and I asked again. It wasn't until I voted that we started getting some content. Then there was Sup's vote for ABR while claiming that he thought ABR was town. It makes no sense to me. If you think that ABR is town and is such a good scum hunter that he can accurately vig kill scum on D1, then why would you want to kill him? Isn't a good scum hunter a better asset to town if he is alive?

I actually find that promising to post content later, and then not doing so, is a fairly accurate scum tell. I'd love to see some actual statistics on this. And TheCow has done it numerous times. My vote is probably going to stay on him for a while.

[texcat]

My opinion of SupZero is tinged with a whole lot of OMGUS. I was originally suspicious when they said they had thoughts to share, but would do so later. Later came and went and I asked again. It wasn't until I voted that we started getting some content. Then there was Sup's vote for ABR while claiming that he thought ABR was town. It makes no sense to me. If you think that ABR is town and is such a good scum hunter that he can accurately vig kill scum on D1, then why would you want to kill him? Isn't a good scum hunter a better asset to town if he is alive?

I actually find that promising to post content later, and then not doing so, is a fairly accurate scum tell. I'd love to see some actual statistics on this. And TheCow has done it numerous times. My vote is probably going to stay on him for a while.

This person is not reading our posts.

[texcat]

Oops. I meant to add to the quote.... What posts do you think I missed? Do you think something I said was incorrect? Please feel free to point it out if you do. Otherwise, quit smudging me by saying that I'm not reading.

[texcat]

With yesterday's situation resolved, I'm feeling Tea is kind of townier. Though, my thoughts there could just be biased by the Lynch's results, I'm not sure.

Could you explain this a little more? I'm not seeing why Tea should feel townier. ABR, who Tea wanted dead no matter what, died and flipped town. I could see that Teapot would be townier if ABR had flipped scum, but huh?

[texcat]

Sup wagon is pretty garbage just by who is pushing it.

Huh? I have Morgan rather firmly planted on the townie side of my list. What makes you think otherwise?

Prod dodge! Slimey content later. Also ask me questions pls

UNVOTE: TheCow
VOTE: Slimer
Could you just answer some of the questions already asked like, what are your thoughts on Sup? Also, are you planning on voting D2? You were a Teapot voter on D1. What are your thoughts on Tea now?

Also, @Morgan, what are your thoughts on Tea? You were the original Teapot voter, weren't you?

[texcat]

I played open 574 with a lurking town slimer not too long ago. Don't think I've seen the scum slimer.

[texcat]

You voted both of us at a time when we both admitting our in-activities and trying to get better (Well at least I was. Didn't bare much fruit to that, but I promise I'll be here more than I am)
You never really stated a reason why you placed those votes.

Uhmm, I did say when I voted Cow that promising to post content later and then not doing so is a scum tell IMHO. I did not restate that when I voted you. And BB later, when questioned, explained,

Interactions with vettrock

Play in general.

Talking for the sake of talking instead of figuring shit out.

Also still @Slimer, did you miss my questions? I saw your answer about Sup, but didn't see anything about Tea, nka GreenCrayons.

Could you just answer some of the questions already asked like, what are your thoughts on Sup? Also, are you planning on voting D2? You were a Teapot voter on D1. What are your thoughts on Tea now?

At least we got something, and looking at Cow's ISO we get more promises of things to come than anything else. His only 2 posts today:

I guess that Vengekill thing paid off. At work, will get a good post out after.

Ew, a vote on me.
If anyone is wondering why I died for a bit there, well aa lot of sleeping was had. Anyway, on topic. With yesterday's situation resolved, I'm feeling Tea is kind of townier. Though, my thoughts there could just be biased by the Lynch's results, I'm not sure. Will look into that further.

As Sup goes, their posts leave me feeling awkward. Could just be the style they're in, but it is quite likely the weirdness of their placements.

Tea is townier, but I can't imagine why, and again another promise to look into it further.
And Sup's posts make Cow feel awkward? I'm not sure what that means.

UNVOTE: slimer
VOTE: TheCow

[texcat]

Green Canyons,
It bothers me that your case on Pisskop is based on Droog. And I disagree with almost all of it. Droog seemed to be his ordinary town self to me. He was one of my strongest town reads. Droog was V/LA. He wasn't lurking, he was gone. From the site. No reason to include him on a lurker list.

I agree that Pisskop's voting record has a lot to be desired, but I don't think it's actually as bad as Teapot's.

Your case on BBmolla was entirely based on Astinus. Which is crazy not because BB did not replace into that slot, but because BB has posted orders of magnitude more than Astinus, which you just seemed to ignore in favor of Astinus's handful of posts. And on discovering your mistake of who replaced whom, why do you review Zmpf's iso and ignore BB's? And yet you declare that BB is town?

[texcat]

Crayons - Sorry!!! I don't know why I keep reading your name wrong.

The problem I have with Teapot's votes was primarily the switch to Vett. He said at one point that he wanted ABR dead no matter what. And yet he switched off ABR and voted Vett. Then turned around and announced that Vett was town and went back to ABR.

[texcat]

I am not feeling the Slimer lynch, especially now that GCrayons seems to be pushing it so hard. Slimer has not been nearly as active as I would have liked, but I don't think he's been particularly scummy when he's been here.

I don't know what the Cow situation is, but I don't suppose that lynch is going anywhere.

Teapot was my preferred lynch yesterday, and GC replaced in and threw suspicions around, mostly based on replaced a few posts by replaced out players. He seems to have finally found one that stuck, but he's already preparing for the mislynch, throwing the blame off on Pisskop.

VOTE: Green Crayons

[texcat]

vettrock (4)

-

archaebob, Albert B. Rampage,

Sup-Zero, Teapot

Albert B. Rampage (4)

- droog, Zymf, Astinus,

vettrock

Not Voting: theslimer3,

TheCow,

Morgan

Before reading, I'm inclined not to lynch Sup-Zero or Teapot, now GC.

The problem here is that Teapot was pushing the ABR lynch, and then only momentarily switched over to Vettrock without a good explanation for the switch, and then switched back to ABR. It just looked too much like scum voting for the town cred, but switching back when it really mattered.

#189, Texcat should be lynched before Vettrock. Given Vettrock was not the dayvig, if Slimer flips scum, Texcat is almost certainly town. He also avoids giving direct comment on the ABR and Vettock wagons here.

So perhaps I should be hoping that Slimer is scum and throw my vote in, but I'm still thinking that Teapot/GC is a far better lynch. And it bothers me that GC seems to be pushing for a quick lynch on Slimer who was not on his original scum list. He's also deflecting blame already for the mislynch and lining up lynches for after the mislynch.

[texcat]

Context matters. Teapot was not quick to jump off of vettrock. They were on vett for two days and were I think the last player off the vettrock wagon.
Why aren't you making the same accusation toward Morgan or Sup-zero?

They had better explanations for their jumps. Teapot's jump onto Vett never made much sense to me. And Teapot was away for a couple of days, but hopped off the Vett wagon pretty soon after her return.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Vettrock
Morgan is town, unless he's scum with ABR and is panicking after a bus. I won't consider that right now though.
The ABR wagon went way too fast.

(I'm going away for a few days.)

You wanted to pressure!wagon ABR, and now suddenly the wagon is "too fast"? Your wagon hopping is what's too fast.

Someone remind me why we're not lynching this.

We still can.

Agreed.

I still don't know why Teapot wanted to vote ABR in the first place. He claimed that his play "wasn't town" but never bothered to follow up on that or explain it, either.

@Titus, I'm not sure what you're asking. And did you mean the Teapot/GC

slot

?
Morgan on Teapot
I do not like GC's push on Pisskop which was mostly based on his read of Droog. And which I disagree with. I had Droog firmly on the town side. But he seems more interested in lynching anyone.

Spoiler:

slimer: only problem I see is what could be considered active lurking (maybe due to real life issues, so not really alignment indicative), with using a bunch of catchup posts that, uncharitably, could be said are being used to look more active than she actually is. But maybe that's just because I have only skimmed the most recent pages and so haven't really delved into her posts.

That said, in ISOing vett I don't see anything he says about slimer that makes me think "yeah, buddies."

Also, I want to see slimer's flip because pisskop, holy crap.

If slimer flips scum, pisskop is likely town.

If pisskop is town, texcat is more likely to be scum.

Lynch slimer, let's see if this logic chain has teeth to it.

[texcat]

GC, Sup, and a very distant third place tie between BB and Hero.

[texcat]

V/LA

I'm travelling Friday and Monday. LA on Saturday and Sunday. Back Monday night.

[texcat]

Pisskop, are you talking about me? Cause I already listed my suspects. You really need to get out of your tunnel and help us find scum.

[texcat]

I was quite sure with slimer.

Really? That's not the way I remember it at all.

@titus GC is teapot. So they were first on my list.

Some interesting points on Morgan, Hero. He made the original case on Teapot and I've been thinking of him as town, but it may be time to rethink. I didn't really like the way that he just jumped on the Slimer wagon without even seeming to consider GC. The Slimer lynch looked inevitable, so he could have been bussing for a little cred.

[texcat]

I'm back. I did have a V/LA posted until last night. And didn't you just disappear for a while, Morgan? Can you explain your reasons for voting me? And can you explain what happened to your Teapot/Green Crayons suspicions?

A couple of things stand out for me about BB. The number of times he protested that he was not scum after Titus added him to her list. And BB's switch to Titus. Is that just OMGUS, BB? Or do you have better reasons?

I think town can afford a mislynch and it might be better to get me out of the way. It would be better to find scum now and I don't think my lynch is going to get us much more information. But it will get Pisskop out of his tunnel.

VOTE: BBmolla

[texcat]

theslimer3 (5)

-

pisskop, Green Crayons, Morgan, Titus, BBMolla

[LYNCH]

Herodotus (1)

-

Sup-Zero

BBMolla (1)

-

theslimer3

Green Crayons (1)

-

texcat

Not Voting:

Herodotus

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

I think it was inevitable that Slimer was going to be lynched, and I'm pretty sure that scum took the opportunity to bus.
And it looks inevitable that I'm going to be lynched, and I'm thinking that scum may not be on my wagon.

[texcat]

Not like it matters, I'm getting lynched after texcat anyway (they're probably town)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: texcat

You're voting for someone you think is probably town?

[texcat]

@Pisskop, do you have any reasons for voting me other than the fact that I was supposedly online during the first scum kill? You've tunneled me for practically the entire game. I thought Droog was town and I want to think that you are town, but you're not giving me anything to work with.