Mini 1649: Jabberwocky Mafia (Game Over)

[BRantz]

WHAT IS HAPPENING?!

I feel like nothing has happened for two pages.

VOTE: Tiershift just cuz.

[BRantz]

WHAT IS HAPPENING?!

lol idk tldr

Well at least I'm not the only one who is confused!

[BRantz]

I am "confused" about WP's babbling for two pages. More joking around than anything else (the whole thing was a response to tier's "idk tldr".

[BRantz]

I am "confused" about WP's babbling for two pages. More joking around than anything else (the whole thing was a response to tier's "idk tldr".

This is scum.

Well excuse me for joking around in RVS while people were drunk spamming.

Tier's 91[/post ] feels very strange. I like Titus' [post]98 in response to it, but Tier realizing that he misunderstood later feels somewhat genuine.

Elbirn's 102 analysis feels town to me. But seriously, I was the second vote on Tier, during RVS, what did you really want out of me there? Also see what I said to farside about wp's babbling.

[BRantz]

ebwop... hmmm messed up quote tags...

should be: 91 and 98

[BRantz]

I'm not digging the Tier wagon. It feels too easy.

So far I haz townread on these people.
- WP
- Titus
- Elbirn
- Axle

Probably obvious townreads but I won't lynch any of these folks today.

Now why would you feel the need to explicitly announce that you won't lynch your townreads?

Because it shows how strong those townreads are.

I'm not sure I like that you are giving 4 players a complete day 1 pass on page 5.

[BRantz]

@far: It isn't vm town reading people that's the problem. It's vm calling them unlynchable on page 5 that bugs me. Also, it's unnecessary for me to talk about town reads? Right... got it.

VOTE: farside

[BRantz]

Ebwop: @wp: will respond to your question in more detail when I am off work.

[BRantz]

Believe it or don't, my vote had nothing to do with vm's and everything to do with how awful farside reasons for thinking I aM scum are (though I am willing to admit that my view on that is possibly tinted).

Are we going to do this song and dance again yakko?

[BRantz]

Alright,

@WP: Farside moved up to my top scum read because she accuses me of not saying anything, but then points out specific things I have said (calling my tier read vague, and saying me giving a read on Elbirn is "unnecessary") which is what pinged me the hardest. If his case is really about me not saying much he should want more of my reads not chastise me for giving one. I already addressed his other point against me. But in essence he twists my words to make it so I am saying that vm having town reads is bad, which isn't what I said at all. I will restate, the problem I have with vm saying those 4 people are unlynchable today on page 5, is it seems to me that vm is giving them a complete pass for the rest of the day, and doesn't plan to analyze their play except in a town biased way. This is not a healthy stance to take on page 5 of a game, it will color all of your interaction reading whenever those players are involved. He is also making the assertion that him feeling my posts are awkward means they are scummy, which is just completely awful.

Tier is much weaker of a read, but I agree with what Titus said about him.

I know you asked about my scum reads, but I feel that I should throw in that I think Bel is probably town.

@Yakko: Different game, same dance.

@Far & Yakko: For whatever reason neither of you reads my "confusion" post as the joke I have said it is multiple times. Try it, it might clear up some of your confusions.

[BRantz]

@far: I don't tend to have good reads until about midway through day 1 usually, I am a read the thread type, but don't respond to things unless I have something constructive to add to them. I have a hard time in the rvs/early game stage applying much content because of this. A lot of the time I tend to fall on the side of asking players questions once I start to have reads on them because I find answers to questions more constructive than giving my own opinions (though I will give opinions if I think they are really needed or asked about them).

[BRantz]

Actually yeah, GiF: let's hear why I should vote Brantz in your words. No consulting mollie. I have a hell of a time reading her, but I'd love to have a shot at reading

you

correctly for a change.

Easy since I voted him entirely on my own accord!

- Timing of the vote. (No mention of farside reads-wise and suddenly bam a vote on farside the moment mollie votes her with showing suspicion.)
- Justification of the vote. (There is none. His posts before the votes has build-up to scumreading farside and I see nothing in his 171 that warrants a vote on farside.)
- As farside said, while criticizing my very strong townreads, he does nothing to explain why nor explain which one he agrees/disagrees. Just an empty criticism.

I actually agree with you that I had shown no/very little suspicion of farside before this, but the point of my ebwop was that as soon as I was at a computer I was going to flesh out my reason for voting her. I hate writing paragraphs on my phone, so if I have any other option I will use that. I understand that to you the timing looks bad, but I can't really control when I have a second to check the thread on my phone at work.

[BRantz]

What does Axle Channeling Spock mean in this context though? For Nacho and Kuribo (who are both players on the site correct? I know nacho is but have only hear of Kuribo) people can do research to see what you mean, with spock it has no mafia context.

@vm about 267: In my limitted experience with TSO he is pretty much always over the top. Why such a hostile reaction?

[BRantz]

Do you think my scum read of you is misplaced? Or fabricated? Why am I barking up a wrong tree?

I know your scum read of me is misplaced. Do you feel I am lying about something in 191? What about it reads as off to you? I don't really have a way to refute your scum read of me based on the case I see you having against me, but I don't feel that it is necessarily fabricated. It just seems very weak.

I do think that spending this much time talking about meta issues is a waste of everyone's time. I only find meta to be marginally useful anyway, too many people have some amount of knowledge of their own meta to make it worth while, and to me this entire argument between farside and Axle looks like them finding each other scummy because they have different meta reads.

[BRantz]

Do you not feel self conscious when talking about things you find to be flaws in yourself, game or otherwise?

[BRantz]

I played a lot like 5 years ago on another site that doesn't seem to be around anymore, but my sig has all of my experience on this site.

As for a reads list I am starting to have more solid reads on people expect one in the next couple days.

[BRantz]

Town reads are normal. Adding the will not lynch was unnecessary.
Adding it on page 5 was unnecessary. Brantz I thought was complaining about having the town reads.

But BRantz complaint wasn't the townreads, it was

"Giving four players a day one pass"

, I.E. the will not lynch part.

So you've criticized him for that, while thinking the same thing yourself. And then you misrepped it as him saying that "Townreads are bad". And that's just awful.

El, I think farside is admitting that he misread what I was saying in this post. Not that he thinks I was saying something different.

[BRantz]

@Axle: Why don't you start playing this game instead of continually asking people to give you meta on everything?

[BRantz]

Who is jon?

[BRantz]

So Tier what is your case against Elbirn?

[BRantz]

@WP: Farside moved up to my top scum read because she accuses me of not saying anything, ...

@Brantz

who was your top scum read before that?

Tier was, but I felt far was a better place to be than Tier because tier was mostly gut. Though I am very underwhelmed by his catch up. He posts a bunch of walls without actually really saying anything. I feel okay going back there now.

VOTE: Tiershift

@Tier: I just assumed you had a case against Elbirn since you said you had points against him during your catch up posts.

[BRantz]

The only timed I see you mention me are you saying ewww, and you saying you should read one of my posts when you have more time. Where is thus question?

[BRantz]

@gif: it's because I am not scum. It isn't like I never mentioned tier before now. Why are you tunneled so hard?

[BRantz]

Jesus, are we really going to rehash that again? Axle: Go back and actually read, not just iso me. Specifically when I am arguing with farside we addressed those posts multiple times. You are going to need to do more than bring up a joke that I made in RVS.

[BRantz]

So TSO your entire case for why I am scum is that I made a joke, and that you didn't like one of my votes? (which you then ignored the entire conversation between farside and I about the situation afterward). Color me unimpressed by your analysis.

Don't have time now, but will talk about all of my reads after I get out of class tomorrow.

[BRantz]

Alright, my reads (in alphabetical order):

AxleGreaser: Axle posts a ton of walls, but seems to focus too much on meta and not enough on what is going on in the game (though this has gotten better in the last few pages). My read keeps waffling between mild town and mild scum, so mostly null.

Belisarius: Has been pushing for information gain, and scum hunting pretty much all game . Very town.

DDD/Aero/Flubbernugget: This slot has done almost litterally nothing. Null for now.
@Flub: have you read the game yet?

Elbirn: Elbirn has also been very open with his thoughts, and good scum hunting. Very Town.

farside22: I think the way farside has pushed the people/wagons she is voting has been very good. Town.

hi im Yakko: One of the lurkers, but has some decent content in his posts that aren't "I'm catching up" posts. Mild town.

Seraphim: Has actually done nothing except throw votes around. Scummy.

TSO: I have mixed feelings about TSO's catch up, but I am more inclined to see his posting as town than scum at the moment. I really don't like his stance on making a case on me though it reads very much like scum trying to take a back seat on a wagon. Null, leaning mild town.

Tiershift: I still don't feel like there is a lot of content in his catch up, but rereading it there is certainly more than I initially gave it credit for, and his posting since then feels very proactive. Mild town.
UNVOTE:
@Tier: Sorry for missing your question twice. I feel 91 is weird because you saying that you couldn't vote without reading, but then asking a question about something (implying you read) in the same post caused dissonance.

Titus: Has been very active in discussion, and was/is a major driver of the tier wagon. Town.

Valkyrie Mollie: There is an interesting dissonance between GiF and Mollie on who to vote (farside vs me when far was pushing me). There posting has been mostly good though. Still don't like them calling people unlynchable that early. Mild town.

I have a weird lack of scum reads at the moment.

People I am willing to lynch today:
1. Seraphim
2. Flubbernugget

VOTE: Seraphim

[BRantz]

VOTE: Brantz

Why are you giving me towncred for the Tier wagon before he flipped?

I am not giving you credit for it being a good or bad wagon, just credit for pushing it hard. I don't think you would be as vocal and pressuring toward it if you were scum.

[BRantz]

Ebwop: I would expect scum to take more of the approach to a wagon that TSO has with mine.

[BRantz]

@Axle: Post 4 is your first request for meta information. Then you self meta (in response to a question about it) in 28. I am not sure what you did in 144 but remember feeling it was meta related, feel free to correct me on this. You request meta from farside again in 202. 221 starts your discussion with farside about meta (specifically on Titus). Then 231 more meta talk. 259 is basically just a giant meta argument.

[BRantz]

Here I thought Tier and Titus might be the first people who had figured out how to read me... ah well.

Tier I posted a reads list because I was asked to a week ago, and finally had a chance to do so. I agree that it isn't a very good reads list (hence me pointing out having too many town reads), but then I don't think anyone will tell you I have played a very masterful game in this one.

[BRantz]

Townreading people for usually having a decent scumgame is an extremely dangerous idea which I don't support.

I agree with this.

[BRantz]

ebwop: Tier you, yourself asked me to go back and read your catch up posts again, with a different mindset. I did, and it didn't look nearly as bad from that perspective. That is all.

[BRantz]

Guess it's time for a good old game of chicken?

But in seriousness, Axle this is going to come down to you. If you decide to hammer one way or the other please give intent first so whichever of us it is can claim.

I am not going to defend my votes any more than I already have. You can like them, hate them, I don't really care one way or the other.

One day people will be able to read me here. Tier and Titus are pretty damn close I think (this game should firm it up for them).

[BRantz]

I am just a vt. Do what you gotta do axle.

@FA: why would I change something that works for me just because people have a hard time reading it correctly?

[BRantz]

If I get lynched my flip will Yakko.

[BRantz]

@Yakko: Can't tell if trolling or... here are all of my reads again.

Alright, my reads (in alphabetical order):

AxleGreaser: Axle posts a ton of walls, but seems to focus too much on meta and not enough on what is going on in the game (though this has gotten better in the last few pages). My read keeps waffling between mild town and mild scum, so mostly null.

Belisarius: Has been pushing for information gain, and scum hunting pretty much all game . Very town.

DDD/Aero/Flubbernugget: This slot has done almost litterally nothing. Null for now.
@Flub: have you read the game yet?

Elbirn: Elbirn has also been very open with his thoughts, and good scum hunting. Very Town.

farside22: I think the way farside has pushed the people/wagons she is voting has been very good. Town.

hi im Yakko: One of the lurkers, but has some decent content in his posts that aren't "I'm catching up" posts. Mild town.

Seraphim: Has actually done nothing except throw votes around. Scummy.

TSO: I have mixed feelings about TSO's catch up, but I am more inclined to see his posting as town than scum at the moment. I really don't like his stance on making a case on me though it reads very much like scum trying to take a back seat on a wagon. Null, leaning mild town.

Tiershift: I still don't feel like there is a lot of content in his catch up, but rereading it there is certainly more than I initially gave it credit for, and his posting since then feels very proactive. Mild town.
UNVOTE:
@Tier: Sorry for missing your question twice. I feel 91 is weird because you saying that you couldn't vote without reading, but then asking a question about something (implying you read) in the same post caused dissonance.

Titus: Has been very active in discussion, and was/is a major driver of the tier wagon. Town.

Valkyrie Mollie: There is an interesting dissonance between GiF and Mollie on who to vote (farside vs me when far was pushing me). There posting has been mostly good though. Still don't like them calling people unlynchable that early. Mild town.

I have a weird lack of scum reads at the moment.

People I am willing to lynch today:
1. Seraphim
2. Flubbernugget

VOTE: Seraphim

[BRantz]

If when I am town I get lynched day 1 and all the scum die between then and the next day, please lynch me every time!