We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Toon Fighter]

/confirm

Hai guise!

[Toon Fighter]

vote: ActionDan

[Toon Fighter]

Wow, ten pages already. I hope you don't min if I skip the pre-game and read just after the official start:

I'm a miller and I have a conditional night skipping ability we should utilize, I'll be more specific when I'm not on my phone.

Interesting thing to claim unprompted. Am interested in the full claim, and it hopefully comes shortly after

Just skip every night and lynch everyone except him.

Good idea, but I would not believe such a role, if real, to be unlimited

Everyone might be scum in this game. And no I'm not scum. In fact, I wouldn't mind claiming straight of the bat if the need arises.

Why offer to claim off the bat? I am always wary of these kinds of claims, especially when it is of something other than a miller

Slightly OOC for a second, but fuck WoW. My ex wife left me for a guy she met on world of Warcraft.(true story) -kuribo

Off-topic, but I find the story interesting

I am a Neighbor Day Cop.

All neighbors need to claim and name their other neighbors now.

Another claim that makes me wary. Don't understand the motivations for claiming something like this D1. Doesn't make you scum, but deserves further analysis

if his power does not activate then he's lying about it, it's not like this is an unverifiable role

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Unless you believe I'm a Scum Vote Charged Vig Shot Gainer One-Shot Conditional Nightskipper

Which if that's the case

lol

This post and other BBmola's make me believe in his claim. Although this IS the game for crazy claims to be believable, BB's seems ok. I see no scum motivation to make such a verifiable fake claim right of the bat D1.

In other news, and following the same line of thought, I think Never-Melt Ice needs more pressure. Even if his claim his real, I don't like how he does it immediately and without obvious motivation to do it. He could even be a Scum (Neighbor Day Cop)

So, UNVOTE: VOTE: NeverMeltIce

[Toon Fighter]

I like how it's not okay for me to question your motives, but it's perfectly okay for you to sling profanity at me and call me useless and so on.

Just lynch me already, and when I flip town

you can try and talk your way out of how you decided to target me and went and manipulated anything I said to try and make it look like I had slipped in the least bit.

I was particularly amused by the quoting of me posting that the info given by game mods didn't necessarily confirm separate scum teams, but conveniently not quoting the earlier post where I said my role basically confirmed multiple scum teams. Here's a good rule of thumb: if you have to take people out of context and ignore temporal order or even ignore whole posts and otherwise your "case" doesn't add up, you probably don't have a case. This goes doubly true when you ISO someone and don't bother to look at what other people said that sparked various comments or responses.

#582 is going to be hilarious if you manage to wagon me all the way to lynch. You feel so good about yourself for using fallacious reasoning and just plain being bad. I always approve of people with big egos and low intelligence (generally identified by the need to use profanity and insults to make points because they lack proper rational thinking ability) having said egos deflated.

I'm gonna go to sleep and I've got work to do tomorrow.

If town is stupid enough to let scum rush a lynch that's cool

. Should be some useful stuff that comes out of it. My role has immunity from being killed by a specific scum faction, ergo my role essentially confirms multiple scum factions. My death and flip will confirm that fully and then hopefully town is clever enough to eradicate the scum teams.

After a quick read backwards, these parts feel very bad. Don't like the tone at all. Town wouldn't basically give up 72h (or something) into a Large theme. Feels like a lying scum. Will read more but considering voting Drixxx

[Toon Fighter]

Spoiler: Big Case by Om

How could you

possibly

know that Ozgin?

And why are you rolefishing? I mean ... are we even to RVS yet?

Let's check: VOTE: Ozgin

this post is supremely fake, even for RVS standards
this is the reason i wanted you dead from the beginning

I've been playing mafia for decades (live play). I first played forum mafia in 2007 or 2008, and I played pretty regularly since then on another site with a much smaller playgroup than here. One of the folks there suggested I come here and I finally relented and did so in December of last year. This is my 5th game on site. I'm still adjusting to the much more varied play styles here and the change in how people view things as scummy or not.

yeah ok this is cool on its own but here friends lets take a look at the rest of his ISO

VOTE: Deathfisaro - Making up for past mistakes.

@Copper - If I played each game the same, then I'd be waaaaayyyyy too easy to read, wouldn't I? It takes a conscious effort to introduce the bizarre and absurd into your lives, but I am here to help!

this is a weird vote
also hey look more self-explanations
what a gripping tale, lets continue

And also, because I love to tell this story: I used to play World of Warcraft with my wife. We were both Trolls and she played a Mage and I played a Priest. I would troll people HARD in general chat, and when they got mad, I'd be like "Do a /who on me and it will make sense." and they'd see my name and then "Troll Priest" or something like that and I would judge them based upon whether they unwound and laughed when they realized that a Troll was trolling them or if it just wound them up more. Cool people in column A and people I didn't want to spend time with in Column B.

Generally Column A included people who could be trusted to raid and just shrug off mistakes and wipes along the way, whilest Column B contained the tightwad "Minus 50 dkp" crowd.

Hooray for trolling as a strategy, amirite?

oh my what a useless post, when will you start actually playing the game instead of rambling? its like all you seem to care to do is talk about yourself in depth to pass it off as content

@Copper - You immediately noticed that I was behaving differently. That's the point. Feel free to look at my profile and check my games to date on site. My guess is you'll be able to see a different approach at work in each game. That's intentional so that I am not immediately identifiable as {VT/PRT/VS/PRS}, and also because I'm experimenting and figuring out the culture on the site here. I expect it to be awhile before I have any sort of easily identifiable meta that people can rely on, and I don't think it's at all alignment indicative since I freely say that I'm doing it on purpose as soon as I get into a game.

here we go again, more of this self-centered posting style that seems to be your signature this game. sounds like a lot of explaining away the changes in style this game. have you even played scum before onsite?

@Copper - You immediately noticed that I was behaving differently. That's the point. Feel free to look at my profile and check my games to date on site. My guess is you'll be able to see a different approach at work in each game. That's intentional so that I am not immediately identifiable as {VT/PRT/VS/PRS}, and also because I'm experimenting and figuring out the culture on the site here. I expect it to be awhile before I have any sort of easily identifiable meta that people can rely on, and I don't think it's at all alignment indicative since I freely say that I'm doing it on purpose as soon as I get into a game.

Why not establish an easy to identify VT meta and just imitate that when you're not VT?
Considering how many people saw your VT play (and it was good too) I'm not sure why you'd throw away the opportunity.
Perhaps... it's because you can't do a good town play because you aren't one =)?

Ask Copper whether I can fake town when I'm scum or not. On the other hand, I might not want to antagonize him too much ... after all, he gave me a brilliant compliment last page. The starting phase of large games is quite amusing around here.

we're doing it again my friend, still have yet to have any attacks or even questions towards any other players. are you really that self-absorbed?

There are so many problems with taking that roleclaim at face value, I don't even know where to start...

what a blanket statement, this is literally just a pointless post to serve as a statement of your opinion. where's the meat? where is the part we can actually critique? this implies so much more than what you actually delivered.

There are so many problems with taking that roleclaim at face value, I don't even know where to start...

Hit me. Start. Go. I want to hear this.

Really? This is pretty simple as a mental exercise.

There are two main possibilities here, which branch:

1.) He's telling the truth, in which case he's got the power to skip a night phase at some critical point in the game to help town, investigating him is useless, and the scum have to decide whether to kill him or let him live to cast increasing doubt on his claim. Him living far into the game wouldn't be necessarily useful as an indicator to his trustworthiness at all.

2.) He's lying. (Whether about the role or alignment or both doesn't particularly matter). The most disastrous outcome of such a fake claim being believed would be the already suggested scenario where we "trigger" his claimed ability at what we don't realize is actually LYLO and then no night skip happens and we lose.

There are various branches of possibilities for each case ... but suffice it to say that the claim throws a great deal of WINE into the proceedings, at a very early stage in the game. The question, I suppose, is whether it's both believable as a role claim (mine is bizarre enough that I could buy it) and that it's also believable that a town aligned and experienced player would have made the claim so early. The latter portion seems questionable to me.

If I'm a miller with that one-shot ability, I play to my win con and maybe breadcrumb the miller part. I don't think I would talk about that ability at the start of day one. I'm also fairly new to MS so there's that.

this post is basically a whole lot of semantics. the best part? it equates to nothing concrete. this post is just hypotheticals. there are no true stances; there are no true thoughts. he has made literally no progress in making an opinion for himself, instead he's trying to appease others. this post is literally a few paragraphs of mafia theory and nothing more, and he's trying his very best to pass it off as actual content.

I had an argument with myself about whether to post this, but it seems pretty obvious and I don't think I'm giving anything away with this; It's pretty obvious that not all outcomes of a lie on the claim are bad for town.

more weird semantic stuff that is not at all related to his opinion on issues or directed at prodding information out of anyone, there is still yet to be a single sign of this in his ISO (seriously if you doubt me go check it). also that self doubt sounds fake as heck

I don't know anything about neighborhoods, and if I have a neighbor that would be news to me. As for miller theory, it's interesting that the claim rate is so high. In the smaller playgroup I come from, miller claiming isn't considered good play.

For some reason, every time I see Oranje post, I think of

The Fault in Our Stars

.

another pointless semantics post, this is becoming a trend

Okay so did anyone else realize how flip/flop and self-contraditory Ice's posts have been? He can't even remember what he said in his original claim? Townies tend to remember their play because they have no lies to keep track of. Any time I see someone who can't even keep track of his ROLE CLAIM and what he asks other people to do in reaction to that, that's like flashing lights and alarm klaxons.

VOTE: Never-Melt-Ice

here we go
finally the very first attack in the ISO
but guess what, this is based on more semantics (and not very good ones at that)
the whole "townies dont need to keep track of lies"
yeah thats an ideal world but have you ever played mafia before?
this is almost 400 posts into the game and its so extremely weak and small compared to the amount of content that had been posted up to that point. also he barely followed up on these suspicions afterwards. there is no drive to actually follow through this attack, its just a one off incident. but why? dont town want to lynch the people they think are lying?

*shrug* - Someone's gotta get lynched on day one.

@Mod - Does the lynched person get to talk in twilight?

I'd appreciate it if my wagon gets rolling hard if I had an opportunity to share something before it goes all the way.

here comes the first sign of his submissive nature. he is rolling over and accepting his lynch as the inevitable fate about 4 votes into a 13-to-lynch wagon. there is no drive to fight this, there is no drive to do anything about it. no typical townie aggression to not being listened to. he's just accepting it. also for the record this was like the second real life day of the entire game.

I told the entire game that I'm intentionally varying my play while I learn the ropes here on this site. I'm not sure why people assume that means I'm actually not going to try out something different.

Early day 1 wagons are almost always a result of people scrambling for some reason to actually pressure someone coming out of RVS. Generally there's nothing to make a real case out of and thus it's sort of useless to argue and be all defensive about it. The absolute worst thing a town player can do is make the entire game focus on them to the exclusion of all else.

I'm really not sure how I would go about defending myself from what are essentially naked votes anyway. So now we're back to:

*shrug* - Someone's gotta get lynched on day one.


PEDIT: My life is on the line? Hardly. This is a game, after all. If you mean that I'm in danger of being lynched ... I think we're a ways away from that. Check out the discussion of voting me and see if you see anything for me to respond to. Yeah ... didn't think so.

more weird explanations for his play
more semantics talk
he has literally not attempted to do anything more than a throwaway case on a player at this point and trying his best to explain his actions away as "testing out new things"
he is also continuing to accept his wagon

So is people voting without much reasoning/argument attached a trend in larger games?
I don't know if I want them to get away with such, it'd be too easy for scum?

pedit: My vote's staying there, but it's no longer a random vote.

First day in a large game starts out random, at least so far in my experience. Unless something unusual happens or someone makes a bad slip, the day one lynch wagon usually rolls on whichever townie has the misfortune to say something awkward that gets latched onto like a remora on a shark.

do i even have to say it

As a miller I'm probably going to be lynched eventually just by nature of my role, why in the fuck would you lynch me before using my

fucking confirmable ability

.

How stupid can you be like holy fuck

I like this too.

Confirmation bias. Rationally there's no reason to believe his claim until it's tested. Since it becomes more valuable the more information we have, we'll be tempted to wait and use it. TDT suggests at least keeping open the possibility that the claim is false.

...

@Om - That was kind of harsh, don't you think? I've seen a lot of first time players over the years I've been playing mafia on forums. No player in his 2nd game is gonna have a fully developed understanding of the game, but to just dismiss someone out of hand and be openly abrasive about it just seems a bit much. Admittedly, I have a soft spot for newer players, and especially Reubus because he reminds me a lot of me in my first forum game many years ago, and I also suggested he come play a large game to get some experience with different play styles and approaches, so he's basically in this game because it needed people and I suggested he could learn a lot and improve his play by playing in it. AND I respect his civility, which sometimes gets tossed out the window for little effective use.

All of that said, this isn't a newbie game and nobody is obligated to help out new folks. I would, however, like to submit that a positive attitude towards newer players and a willingness to invest in them is significantly more likely to be rewarding than throwing them to the sharks and being snarky and judgmental. I mean ... being good at this game is a learned skill. Nobody is born inherently good at it, and while some folks have knowledge and skills which are useful in progressing quicker than others, the general barrier to entry for adequate play isn't really all that high, and even then, "good" is rather subjective in this case.

@BBmolla - Didn't someone already claim neighbor a couple pages back? I'm almost certain I saw someone say they were a neighbor.

@all - the best policy is to attack someone's play or what someone says, and not the someone himself. I haven't been here long, but in that short time I've seen a lot of needless animosity arise out of people living "up" to John Gabriel's Greater Internet F&%$wad Theory (google it for a funny Penny-Arcade comic from like 11 years ago).

2 massive paragraphs that talk about exactly nothing. thats it, thats the point of this entire post
oh yeah, cant forget this weird halfdefense thing going on which doesnt actually address the concerns or anything set against him

Be specific Oranje! If you believe certain people are lurking, then ask them directly to answer some questions. A blanket "lurkers should stop lurking" isn't usually very productive.

...

Be specific Oranje! If you believe certain people are lurking, then ask them directly to answer some questions. A blanket "lurkers should stop lurking" isn't usually very productive.

Couldn't you instead of posting this just ask lurk questions

When I feel like pushing lurkers, I'm sure I will single them out, starting with the most egregious. Right now there's enough interesting going on that I haven't really noted who is hardcore lurking, which is actually a bit odd for me to realize. I played so many years with 48 hour days and I've already become super spoiled by the much longer days here. There's a lot of time to be thorough and whilest I still despise lurking, I find that what I view as lurking has radically changed in my ~3 months here.

this post achieves nothing either. just pointless words made to sound more opinionated than he is

My bad for misreading you Om.

It seems to me that it's rather obvious to the scum teams that they have opposite scum teams, right? My role seems to confirm two scum factions, and my guess is they already know it because it seems obvious they would have to be small and would realize their team size indicated another scum faction.

...

like i honestly really dont know what ur tryin to achieve by saying something so common knowledge without followup

It didn't seem /quite/ mod confirmed to me that the scum in the two origin games would be kept separate. My role makes me 99.9% certain that there are multiple teams though. Since it was possible to interpret the scant setup info we were given in either way, and since the scum would already know, I felt that stating my role pretty much confirms multiple scum teams had value to the town. As you play more with me you will find that I do my very best to avoid assuming things that aren't empirically confirmed. I've been burned way too many times in the past by making assumptions that seemed safe but weren't. I learned my lesson.

...

everyone not voting needs to put a vote down asap
preferably on drixx or brantz

Either your play here is really bad or you're scum. My role is unlikely to provide much utility so I'll gladly trade me for you.

"I'm your Huckleberry" - Doc Holliday,

Tombstone

ok here we go
here is the cherry on top
this is where things start to get fun, but i'll explain this in a second

everyone not voting needs to put a vote down asap
preferably on drixx or brantz

You seem to be in quite a hurry. You also don't seem to care whether there's any case. So far as I can tell, nobody has actually bothered to put a case together on me. I'm amused by how transparently scummy you're behaving.

Everyone needs to vote? Really? Why is everyone obligated to vote just because you say so? Votes are significant and frequently used to drive cases against people. You seem to want people to put votes down even if they don't find anyone particularly scummy. There isn't any obvious town motive that I can see to this.

And before you cite that there is one more player than votes available, according to the mod, there's no need to make everyone vote to find who can't vote. Presumably since there was no official game time before that post, whomever can't vote has that restriction as part of his/her/its role and thus can just say so. And even if you are trying to PoE figure out who can't vote ... you haven't said so anywhere.

So let's see. You seem to think everyone is obligated to vote just because you say so. You haven't actually made a case against BRantz or I, but you seem to be in a big hurry to push people to vote us. What alignment would best explain your haste and seeming indifference to who gets lynched?

Town wants as much info and as many connections and reactions as possible to go on. Scum want to get through the game with as few risks of screwing up as possible. So I'll say again ... either your play is bad, or you're scum. Your response to my last post suggests the latter fairly strongly.

ok here we go, here comes the kicker
there is no lead up to this
you have literally just come in out of nowhere and expressed suspicion on me
and yeah thats cool and all and i do it too so im not gonna hate on u for that on its own

but do you want to know what bugs me
there is no asking for explanations
you are not caring why people are scumreading you
but here you are acting like im scum for barely saying anything about why
there is no "hey why are you doing this"
its just a "you are doing this so im going to call you scum for it"

you have no desire to actually take a look at my thoughts behind what i say in thread
you are literally just looking for something to capitalise on to get the attention off of you
the only other attack you've made in the entire game has been based on a wonky action from another player that you never cared to investigate either
you do not spend any time actually pushing your reads
instead you spend all your time talking about how you are playing and why

almost every single post you've made is either trying to explain away your actions with "im testing out a new style"
or its a "somebody has to be lynched on day 1 so i guess its gotta be me"
or just useless semantics

there is no imminent death awaiting for you
you can change this by actually taking charge and outwardly projecting town thought processes
but you arent, you are trying to skate on by with meaningless posts that just look content-y, but in reality they are nothing more than shells
there is no merit to what you say, there are no real opinions
everything you have said that is even remotely conclusive ends in a roundabout statement with no actual stance on the issue
the only clear stance you have made is when i have made my move to come at you, you took the glaring issue (no stated case) and you tried to make it the focal point without investigating any further than on the surface

After reading all that, yeah, Drixx is a godd place to put a vote.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Drixx

[Toon Fighter]

Yeah, I'm done. When someone is behaving so stupidly that they define "It's early in the morning and I need to sleep" as "still extremely reluctant to give out reads", there's no reasoning with them.

Have fun feeling stupid when I flip exactly as I claimed Om. I will be back post game to taunt you for thinking you're good when you made a terrible, fallacy ridden case against me, and then were so excited about finally thinking you were good at the game that you decided I don't get to sleep or handle my RL work, and asking to do so makes me scummy. There's nothing in your worthless pile of tripe post to defend.

I think it's hilarious that such bad play will rob the town of the rest of day 1. I reject Copper's assertion that this is my fault. I made a reasonable request to sleep (which I've done), and to get my work done (which I have not yet), and got piled on and the driver on my wagon called me scummy for wanting to handle the basic necessities of life.

@Copper - When people are either scum and will twist anything you say or do to fit their agenda, or just really bad town and think asking to sleep is a scum tell, there's no fighting that.

Even if you are town, you are not giving us much to work with here. You act like a spoiled brat and refuse to find scum other than OMGUSing Om. The day has barely begun and you are giving up and throwing the towel. Your attitude justifies the votes just as much as your poor plays, so you should work on that.

[Toon Fighter]

Ok I am back, having read the last few pages. TPTG's explosion makes me feel bad at a primal level, but hopefully kuribo won't do it again. The claim seems believable, and yeah, the other brother mason shouldn't claim. Anyone who says otherwise deserves to be policy lynched. Drixxx seems better after the push (see? you can make better posts!), plus the faction bulletproof, after some analysis, does seem like it may come from town. Anyway, there are bigger scums to lynch, and the wagon on vonflare looks like a good place to put a vote. However will do a couple ISO's and read some more before I vote. copper, NeverMeltIce and other game denizens, don't leave your seats, as I have answers for your questions incoming.

[Toon Fighter]

@copper: I don't fully understand how your 1v1 in Mini 1642 fully relates to this game and this case. Yes, there was a 1v1 there. Yes, there is a 1v1 here. The fact that the situation repeats here doesn't mean the alignments do. Especially on a larger game, with (almost guaranteed) multiball. Honestly, the possibility of it being TvT hadn't really crossed my mind before, but thinking about it now I feel it's more likely. Also, am derptown, can confirm.

@NMI: Thinking again about your answers, I suppose your claim might have come from town.It is a fairly neutral role, and I could see it being useful for scum. Also, asking the neighbors to claim didn't feel like a good town play (similarly, exposing themselves as neighborhood members, ChriVi seem more town than not, as the neighbor cop can confirm/prove they are lying tomorrow, and exposing themselves like that doesn't make much sense as scum). About the case on me, I don't think you have enough ground to stand on. Drixxx wasn't scum (to me at least) because of his stance on the claims, but rather on the distancing, weak posts and lack of reads. I didn't post a lot because the game grew drastically and somewhat intimidatingly and I could not post very regularly. Although you might doubt it, I did read backwards as I said, and did notice his post as scummy before I read the case. I on't know how that makes me look bad. My playstyle is hampered by the sheer size and speed of the game, and I try to make the most of my few posts.

Other comments: deathfisaro - asked for mason claim. Refuses to acknowledge why this is scummy. I feel this is in the "too scummy to be scum" field, but at the same time those posts feel off. OTOH, he seems to have played only in a bunch of newbie games as well as a Mini theme, so he might have never encountered them before. Wary of him, but doesn't deserve a vote.

vonflare - Subject of the second big wagon of the day. Looking at his posts, he seems derptown, rather than scum. Don't like his style, but the motivation seems more town than scum. His posts seem opportunistic and his defense not very good.

vyse - apologetic and low participation, even less than me (difficult, I know!). As I don't see any obvscum anywhere else, and feel like a pressure vote could bring more quality input, I will move my vote there

UNVOTE: VOTE: VysePresident

[Toon Fighter]

@Ice: Did you see my response to your points? Do you plan on investigating ChriVi?

I don't think the other neighbors should claim this early, FTR. Maybe tomorrow

[Toon Fighter]

There is at least one neighborhood in this game.

Yes, I am in a neighborhood.

I would conftown this, but godfathers exist :/

Neighbor cop godfathers? I don't think those exist

[Toon Fighter]

@Lucian
My three names are Vyse, Vonflare and Drixx, the first two are conditional on asking for a claim and evaluating it before proceeding.

seconded

[Toon Fighter]

Look at all those almost never seen before avatars coming out of the woodworks now that Lucian claimed to have a gun, what a coincidence.

Sorry, did you say anything?

[Toon Fighter]

@Marquis
Propose better vig shots if you don't like the names floating about.

oh no, i'm talking about lynches

we have so few of them in between multiple scum nightkills that i'd rather not waste them on what are essentially groupthink policy lynches

feel free to vig the ones with little contribution (or the rare ones you don't like and oddly enough i don't like as well), namely:

3. Toon Fighter
5. Ozgin
13. PeregrineV
16. BRantz
19. Soren
21. deathfisaro
23. Reubus Swagrid
24. Dani

and out of those i think we should limit our lynchpool to:

3. Toon Fighter
3. Toon Fighter
3. Toon Fighter

Why was I not on this list? I haven't done like anything.

VOTE: Marquis

The push on Toon feels fake.

Because you are his scum partner

[Toon Fighter]

bah.

My mason partner, TPTG, has brought to my attention Lucian wants to shoot me. We decided a claim would be the best way to point his motherfucking gun somewhere else. I am TPTG mason partner. If anyone wants to shoot me now, fine. Go ahead. Bitch

[Toon Fighter]

bah.

My mason partner, TPTG, has brought to my attention Lucian wants to shoot me. We decided a claim would be the best way to point his motherfucking gun somewhere else. I am TPTG mason partner. If anyone wants to shoot me now, fine. Go ahead. Bitch

Why didn't you respond to the earlier pokes? You checked into the thread. Assuming your claim is true, wouldn't some investment in the game to slow the roll on your wagon have been a better play than this claim?

Unvote

Because I didn't have enough time to meaningfully contribute to the thread yesterday, and saw this morning warning by TPTG that I was getting wagoned and lined up for execution by gun. And I had to act fast

[Toon Fighter]

I think we as a town are overthinking claims and should just worry about lynching our scumreads. For what it's worth, we don't think Drixx has done anything particularly town-worthy, and has fought against doing protown things. We think his claim is fake, because he kinda swept ActionDan's semi-counterclaim under the rug. Factional bulletproof is a claim that Drixx can never ever prove, so it's sake as far as a fakeclaim goes (maybe it's a Mod designated fakeclaim). Like, if someone outside our Masonry claimed Mason we'd hit them furiously with our Scumrod. The "this is two set-ups" thing shouldn't make us just sweep claims under the rug. Everyone has a non-vanilla role, we can't take the attitude of "he claimed so-and-so, we can't lynch him Day 1." Otherwise we're going have to lynch my slot, because we have the 'tamest' claim on the board. We essentially have two lynches Day 1 and maybe a free Day 2 if BB's role does what he says it does. Let's use them like lynches instead of mass-claim roulette.

We have ~4 days till deadline. Stop dancing around claims, pick your top scumreads and pursue them. If you think Toon and I are scum faking Masons? Fine, put your money where your mouth is. Take responsibility for your reads. Here are our top two, I'll summarize what I think of them.

On that note, more Drixx votes please. Forget his claim (which sucks), he hasn't played like town. When he started getting challenged, he panicked, in my opinion made a bad/fake/whatever claim under pressure, and now he has the indignant attitude of scum caught for the wrong reasons. since then he has blamed other players for his reads, pressed the outting of my Mason partner, and when that DID happen, blamed him for claiming Mason under the threat of being lynched/vigged. He tried trumping up his BP claim as making him confirmed town (like in #1352), and has demanded to me and my slot on several occasions to change our read based on hersay and claims, rather than with some actual strong town play. I don't like that he tries to throw around unproven bits about his role and set-up as the reason he should be read as town. I think Drixx is just playing to survive rather than catch scum.

deathfisaro, we've covered this before. He's another player who gets progressively worse as the game goes on (I actually read Drixx as town early on, until he caved to pressure put on him, though Kuribo and UT read him as scum early anyway). I don't think he approaches the game from a protown mindset. After his initial feeling out players he's familiar with, he stops trying to figure out alignments of any of those players around the time he tried to "gambit" with Om. To me it looked like a poor attempt to establish himself as town when the perception on him was starting to deteriorate. It was a move that looked to gain 'towncred' then to do anything to figure out Om's alignment. To the point, he immediately gives up his gambit the second someone calls him on it. If he was committed to it, why not just shut up and wait till Om posts anyway? He is quick to declare "you ruined it". You can't try and do a gambit against a player and expect every other player in the game pretend the two of you are in a vaccuum. Though when pressed on this, he makes an excuse about not knowing how his gambit was supposed to work remarking "shouldn't Om's reaction been telling even if other players found it weird?" Why yes, yes it should have, if only you followed through. It's hard as scum to commit to anything, because scum wants the ability to be flexible enough to reasonably lynch anyone. This is evident through his play, he's not committed to pursue much. He "parks" his vote on scumreads rather than trying to sort through them, or convince other players he is right, or anything resembling town thinking. Does anyone know who deathfisaro thinks is scum and why? because I don't.

Goodposting

UNVOTE: VOTE: Drixx

Also:

@mod and everyone: I will be away for the weekend, V/LA until monday/tuesday

[Toon Fighter]

@Drixx: First, please excuse kuribo a bit for his explosion. The mason claims can be great late-game but games don't always work out the way you expect them to. We had planned to claim later, but... the game happened, and kuribo claimed for some reason. Blame him and his nature, but don't call us scummy. Second, your defense is bullshit. You don't say you are town, but rather try to discredit MY mason partner based on bad reasons. If you trust my claim, why not TPTG? Third, your claim was always very fishy. Not confirmable, doubtful, and didn't really match your play. You said nothing about these things in your defense.

[Toon Fighter]

BBmolla, why are you still voting me? Why not chose one of the top wagons that might actually be lynched

[Toon Fighter]

If this has not already happened,

unvote, vote: Jackel

[Toon Fighter]

Wait, so the game doesn't close now?

[Toon Fighter]

And the masons...

[Toon Fighter]

vote: oranje Crush

The claim in twilight nonsense, combined with scummy sounding claim and voting for a claimed investigator day 1 (yes, this is lots of people so I could be convinced to look elsewhere)

I agree

VOTE: Oranje

[Toon Fighter]

@All
I am going off the assumption that new kid around the block is the mod flavour for the role Marquis described, I will flip town facebooker, that doesn't tell you what I do.

what does that role actually?

[Toon Fighter]

Okay the game grew monstrously during the last couple days and I just spend nearly 2 hours reading all this before posting. Get ready as I comment on some interesting things I found...

I'm really torn on doing this but I think it will probably help town more than scum to reveal this;

I am a kill re director; Last night I chose somebody to have the first kill attempt on them go to another target (of my choice) -- this doesn't work if the new target is source of the kill. (my understanding is if its mafia, anybody in that mafia team, not just the person actually performing the kill)

I targeted BBMolla and redirected it to Marquis. Basically if I chose scum there was a chance it would fail, and I was hoping Marquis would be protected, its possible he *WAS* protected and my redirect is what killed him.... sorry. thinking about it now, if I had targeted somebody I thought was scummy and it failed, then I had a probably confirmed scum so I shouldn't have done it that way.

Very interesting claim. Don't see scum coming out like this. Still, as has been pointed out, the redirect choice was questionable, at best. If we have 3+ scum factions, could see Narninian being of the one that didn't target Marquis originally (assuming he is actually telling the truth that is, but the motivation for the claim seems to suggest so), but other than that he seems 80% conftown at this point.

I'm really torn on doing this but I think it will probably help town more than scum to reveal this;

I am a kill re director; Last night I chose somebody to have the first kill attempt on them go to another target (of my choice) -- this doesn't work if the new target is source of the kill. (my understanding is if its mafia, anybody in that mafia team, not just the person actually performing the kill)

I targeted BBMolla and redirected it to Marquis. Basically if I chose scum there was a chance it would fail, and I was hoping Marquis would be protected, its possible he *WAS* protected and my redirect is what killed him.... sorry. thinking about it now, if I had targeted somebody I thought was scummy and it failed, then I had a probably confirmed scum so I shouldn't have done it that way.

Or hell, redirect it to one of the bulletproofs

THIS! So much this! If you had redirected onto me, then if it was Eviscerate, it would have fizzled due to my immunity to werewolf kills (How on EARTH is Copper the only one who realized what "Silver lining" meant?).

@ActionDan - You have some reason more than an assumption that "werewolf" isn't usually a "mafia" faction to back up your claim that my immunity isn't to one of the mafia groups? The kill flavor looks an awful lot like the earlier outed "volcano" mafia (incinerate) and a "werewolf" mafia (eviscerate).

Here's the revised edition:
The other mafia faction made their direct Nk on Marquis, and

the volcano dudes were redirected from Molla at Marquis.

This looks a LOT like a scum slip

. How on earth could you know which faction targeted Marquis, or even if a re-direct happened, unless you were on the team that got re-directed? I re-read all of today to see if there was some obscure bit of info that could lead to this conclusion, and I don't see it. You appear to know things you can't possibly know Lucian.

FoS Lucian

@Titus - You should probably link to the VCA thread. Your description of VCA and how it is applied is lacking a lot. (For the record, I have a very LOW view of VCA. I think it is, at best, a weak sorting tool. Large scale probability

does not

apply to individual situations, and PoE plus context will get you a lot farther than thinking about all the possible things VCA might be showing).

Agree. And with the recent Pika shot, and requests for night protection and stuff, I would not discard the potential 'Lucian scum in a non-berlin facton' possibility (as we are pretty much confirmed multiball at this point).

If you are still lost after your reread, the protown thing is to kill one of the people wagoned yesterday (PV or Drixx). That would help us learn if those wagons changing fast were in defense of a buddy or not.

@Drixx not getting into a theory debate with you.

Before the cop result, this actually made sense. Good post (one of the only ones) by Titus.

Vote Count 2.01

Oranje Crush (2)

- Narninian, Toon Fighter

LucianRoy (2)

- Om of the Nom, Drixx

Titus (1)

- Three-Pronged Trouser God

copper223 (1)

- Bulbasaur Commonwealth

Pirate Ika (1)

- Ozgin

Ozgin (1)

- deathfisaro

Bulbasaur Commonwealth (1)

- VysePresident

Not Voting (16)

: Pirate Ika, Oranje Crush, ActionDan, ChriVi, Boonskiies, PeregrineV, vonflare, Cerberus v666, BRantz, LucianRoy, Magua, Titus, Lihin, BBmolla, copper223

With 25 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

@mod: is there a reason we can't have full flips?

Yes, giving full flips would be a significant balance shift that we did not plan for.

I've amended rule I to include the clause in parentheses:

I. This game will use no factions other than what is considered normal (town, mafia, werewolf and serial killer).

Will no one comment on the fact that we have more votes than players this time (a triple vote or 2 double votes if Titus maintains her stump quality)? Ok then

Also how the fuck am I a "good lynch".
I was "fucking town" yesterday before twighlight. I claimed, didn't die and only one kill happened. How fucking far-streched is your mind to think that I'm still SK and not a commuter.

ESPECIALLY when one night kill was blocked possibly be me.

That is assuming a lot. Don't be cocky.

trouser pple can I somehow persuade you and toon to move here?

just look at twilight.

just look at it.

I was already there. But you are a dead scum now, so it doesn't matter much

ok two things:


1- I said this in the mason PT and I'll say it here, setup spec is the most boring fucking thing ever. Stop fucking claiming every five seconds and stop trying to outguess the mod. It literally makes me hate all of you.

2- if ozgin is claiming a guilty on mollie, there's only one play to make: one of them has to die

unvote
Vote: pirate ika

That's all. Having a shitty day, don't bother engaging me if you have soft feelings

-kuribo, the Crimson Fucker

Do people want me to go away again today?

Catching up in a few hours either way.

Bolding mine.

Vote on Lucian until he shoots the guilty, because like TPTG says, that's the ONLY reasonable response. Take the shot, prove your claim AND kill scum. Assuming he flips scum, congratulations, you just saved town DAYS of arguing over whether or not we should lynch him with constant reference to alternative scenarios involving redirections of all sorts. If you don't shoot him, well...seems like a good chance we just found two scum.

Vote: LucianRoy

BRantz: Yes, I want you to go away sometime shortly before a lynch is guaranteed on someone else, so you leaving doesn't screw up votes, and we have time to lynch you if you don't actually go away as you claim you're going to do, and so you have time to contribute prior to leaving.

Bulbasaur: Hmm. The aim isn't to cause WIFOM, but to honestly bring up all possibilities as they occur to me. I do see your point though.

Oranje: My votes going on you as soon as Lucian shoots, until someone does something scummier than claiming a role that incentives town to not investigate you, and justifies continued survival into the late game, while simultaneously doing so during THE WORST TIME OF DAY TO CLAIM A ROLE THAT CAN WASTE A NK, WHILE UNDER NO PRESSURE AT ALL, IN PURSUIT OF PERSISTENT CALLS FOR MASS CLAIMS.

SPECULATION: Ika+Oranje team, ika claimed no result on orange to support the commuter claim. Bit early for that play though, but might be a last ditch move to save themselves from the bad call on the claim.

Narninian: Pretty obv town, just...ugh. Bad plays,but I've said enough about that. His bad play and admittance of said play feels super town.

Don't agree with this stance on Lucian. Only a couple hours had passed since the claim. There was no need to vote him at this point. If cerberus felt like Pika was better off dead, why not just vote her in the first place?

Blah shit. That means both Ozgin and ika could be town if tailor is not bastard.

We should have Ozgin investigate more

Both Pika and Ozgin seem legit to me.

Yet I can't vote. I am not so sure they are both town.

I think it is good I am not voting.

Titus, do you even mafia? I mean, keeping up the tailor speculation at this point seems ridiculous. And does not look good at all after the flip. Still, I don't think Titus is scum, just playing a very bad game here.

Stop saying you will shoot her an shoot her.

YES. Reading multiple pages of discussion of the shot before the actual shot is literally painful.

No, just confirmed not Berlin Undercity Mafia...

I agree. Ozgin, Lucian and Oranje are by no means confirmed town. They are all likely town, but I could see 1+ of them being scum.

Lucian, ozgin is conf town.
You could still be other faction.
VOTE: Lihin

Your insistence on the easy lynch target doesn't look good to me. You keep tunneling on him after all the Pika shenanigans and with a lot of other players that you say nothing about. I think you are scum looking for an easy lynch target to save yourself today. To say nothing of your suspicious Twilight claim and all that Jazz. I still think the best lynch today would be Oranje.

[Toon Fighter]

bah the spoiler quotes broke they were just for reducing the post's lenght, but oh well. It is still legible

[Toon Fighter]

Toon, I was the first to start calling lihin out.
And if you accuse me of "finding easy targets" then point out how my case is wrong. Explain, how my case isn't actually a case on scum I've possibly found by scum hunting. Why must it be an "easy target"?
If your going to through that accusation around you better have the arguments to back it up, go ahead and explain how she's town. Impress me.

I didn't say Lihin is town. she might very well be scum. The way Oranje went about voting her is the scummy part. Hence why I think we should lynch Oranje first, he is a higher priority target than Lihin.

[Toon Fighter]

VOTE: Copper

Why did you self vote here?

[Toon Fighter]

@bulbasaur: You hit prod range because Lihin hates you

[Toon Fighter]

can we just lynch OC?

[Toon Fighter]

Drixx, stop that. There is nothing good coming out of the Double vote discussion now.

I am actually pretty okay with a Lihin lynch. Considering jumping to that wagon soon. But Oranje is the one I'd prefer to see flip today.

[Toon Fighter]

again you two?

[Toon Fighter]

yeah I agree that boon post is pretty damning.

But why isn't Oranje dead yet?

[Toon Fighter]

dis is painful i might just lolololol hammer.

Know that feel bro. My hammer finger is just itching at this point

[Toon Fighter]

meh. I've done worse hammers.

unvote, vote: Lihin

[Toon Fighter]

"Nuked from orbit"
The claim was also a lie, but why?

You are so fucking scum right now

[Toon Fighter]

Well, that's a bit of a relief.

Claim stuff: Forgetful Watcher is a watcher who receives their results at the beginning of the next Night instead of the next Day. So I would receive my results from N1 on N2, instead of D2. So I have no results at all from N1. Womp womp. It wouldn't matter overly much, as I didn't watch BBmolla or Marquis.

---

My kill is antitown (as is any kill where you don't get a claim beforehand). Gutread would be some sort of SK type role.

---

Pretty much everything I said in 3282 still holds. Still think Drixx is town. Think all of the paranoia around TPTG/Toonfighter/Lucian is pointless at this stage of the game. TPTG/Toon, especially, are high targets for scum regardless, and don't really warrant the noise. Lucian I think is town, but even on the .01% that he's not, with at least two scumgroups + probable SK kill he'll wind up deaded one way or another. Talk of voting/lynching any of these three is useless noise.

Cerberus remains my strongest scumread.

Titus is interesting. On the one hand, Titus asks basic, very newbieish questions. On the other, Titus makes non-basic mafia gameplay remarks. And then Titus makes comments like "I bet there was scum on Lilah wagon", which is pretty much a duh statement -- especially in multiball, any grouping of 51% of the players is going to have scum in it. I feel like Titus would know this, and find the pushing of it as some useful insight scummy. But the whole doublevoter-pretends-to-be-a-treestump thing reads as so town. So conflicted.

Are you even able to post during twilight?

[Toon Fighter]

See, Oranje? This is what you should do. Not make 500 alt posts and act as if they don't matter when you are an hydra

[Toon Fighter]

In other news, I'm not going to be the guy who says "I told you so," but I never really wanted to lynch Lihin.

And how many town points do you want for that?

[Toon Fighter]

VOTE: Oranje

will read more latter but this is a good vote

[Toon Fighter]

deathfisaro, you look so bad right now. Semi confidant, as a scum who feels like, without any votes on, can say as he pleases. Well, no. Your early day plays were very bad, and you deserve some fucking flake for that. You just keep making random comments about the kills, never committing to anything, no real scum reads, voted Lihin and then excused yourself when he died without answers. If you wanted him to answer, why didn't you unvote? Excusing yourself like that is fucking awful play. Commit to your reads, stop posting flavor bullshit, and just die, scum.

[Toon Fighter]

Also, Ozgin, what were your results tonight? And where are you?

[Toon Fighter]

didn't see your post. forgetting seems fishy, but believable. bah

[Toon Fighter]

Got no new abilities last night.
Don't know who to scum read anymore, after school I'm actually going to look at the Lihin wagon and the Jackal wagon votes. I've been buisy lately, sorry about that.

Did you commute? Or is it time we lynch you?

[Toon Fighter]

Also, Ozgin, what were your results tonight? And where are you?

Wow.

Can you read.

I read afterwards you fucking scum. Can't you read?

And, were your claim true, maybe you'd get abilities when you commuted. If you were town, you'd claim that. Why are you calling me reatrded, scum?

[Toon Fighter]

Wow this ground to a halt fast when Copper got killed. Now isn't the time for you to go quiet Titus. This game needs a couple of us to pick it up and get it moving. I expected to have pages and pages to catch up on and there was like maybe 5% of what I expected when I refreshed.

Yeah what gives? I wanted this game to break every size record in the site!

[Toon Fighter]

will ignore any post where you don't use your hydra account sorry

[Toon Fighter]

Oh, OranjeScum, now that Town!Lihin is dead, who is obvscum in your eyes?

[Toon Fighter]

the 'no wgeurts' shtick is bullshit. You two are an hydra. You are just avoiding questions directed to you and hoping that people have forgotten them by the time he gets back. Or you are just wgeurts refusing to answer and ignoring people's questions.

Commuting every night is not a given for any player looking at you. And if it really is unlimited I really think you are scum. An unlimited commuter is very very strong as a town role, and moderate as scum. I think you being scum is more likely that way.

[Toon Fighter]

keep waiting then

[Toon Fighter]

I didn't complain two pages later that Lihin was unable to answer and 'Oh no, we should have just given him two more days, then he could actually prove he is town and dissuade a 12-people wagon off him or something... Btw, I voted him but I am super town'.

I hammered and I am not sorry. The hammer was not bad, there were other players with intent, Lihin was lurking for days, and there was no decent competing wagon. Stop trying to make ME look bad.

[Toon Fighter]

Oh no every single player that I voted more than once had died and flipped scum, scumhunting must be my lowest priority because I should be doing absolutely nothing instead!

Let me continue that trend, but time is short so I must make haste this way.
VOTE: Bulbasaur Commonwealth
VOTE: Bulbasaur Commonwealth

Yeah no you still look bad. Don't misrepresent me. I didn't say any of the things you are implying. A random vote on Bulbasaur is not going to convince. In fact, I will join my mason buddy and vote you

VOTE: deathfisaro

That doesn't mean OranjeScum is innocent. It just means that we have too much scum and too few lynches. People who aren't voting, please tell me what do you find townie about either of these scum bastards, and vote one of them or claim scum yourselves. Kthx

[Toon Fighter]

I thought you weren't a treestump

[Toon Fighter]

Trigger molla today is the best choice

[Toon Fighter]

so many games. So many prods. And im in the city

replace or get lynched

[Toon Fighter]

or stop lurking I guess

[Toon Fighter]

This game is boring me.

More votes in Oranje or deathfisaro plz

[Toon Fighter]

mod and all, VLA till Tuesday

[Toon Fighter]

Ok, first things first:

unvote

Sorry TPTG, but I kinda believe Death's claim. After having read the last 26 pages (damn this game moves fast) I am more confused than before on who to lynch.

@TPTG, I expect to be shot before the endgame regardless of our fighting because I can basically rescue a game at the end.

I believe the claims that act like town and make sense. I don't believe the other ones. If you weren't a "mason" you'd be a scumread. Your mason buddy TF hasn't been posting here at all.

@Bulba, what if we're making wrong assumptions and that Berlin harkens back to the Holocaust and incinerate is their kill and that Tropical Volcano Mafia is something Austin Powersish and they are nuking or shit from their lair?

I was VLA, Titus. People have things to do, sometimes. That should not be a game play issue (if you check, I was VLA across all my other games as well)

Actually, after having read through all claims and investigations BS, I think our lynch today should be VOTE: Titus

- Bad play overall, voting masons, attacking everywhere, irrational moves, an overall annoying player to read
- Role is not conftown by any means
- I don't want to lynch claimed investigators today, especially deathfisaro, since I kinda believe his claim, and since we already lynched two town PRs. If anything, I'd me much more willing to lynch Boonskiies, who keeps prodging and trying to live till tomorrow

I also would like to see BBMolla's role activated today.

I townread TPTG, cerberus, House, ChriVi, death (believe the claim, bad play, but should not be the lynch today). Neutral on Drixx, BBMolla, pretty much every other player. Scum read on Titus, Bulbasaur, Boonskiies, Oranje Crush.

[Toon Fighter]

Titus and Drixx, I've said this 2 weeks ago. Get your respective heads out of your respective asses and find some scum. Otherwise I'll advise for you two being Policy Lynches today and tomorrow.

[Toon Fighter]

well here's the thing:

If Bulba is telling the truth
THEN death is confcop (not conftown, as cops may not be town, but more likely town than not)

Because I can understand a player getting a No-Result as a cop and that making them believe that the target is investigation immune. ESPECIALLY when the mod confirmed that a cop would get that kind of a result PM, and especially as Bulba claimed Reflexive JK only AFTER death claimed cop. So, 99%, death is some sort of cop.

Now, death could be a scum cop. This I believe more, and think, if we get to tomorrow without a werewolf claim, we should go ahead and lynch him. General bad play (as I pointed out before), a weak-to-VT role even if town so not a big risk, and might actually be a scum cop (points there). Plus he even voted himself at some point, and I like obliging the players who want to get themselves lynched. But for today, we have better targets. As much as I hate Titus right now, Drixx might actually be scum (not related to the retarded double voting gambit, that is being blown WAY out of proportion by both, but for overall play and a dubious claim), and lynching him could be a good compromise for today.

unvote, vote: Drixxx

(I never know how many xx's it has)

[Toon Fighter]

@TF,

Even if Bulba is lying, Death is still likely confirmed cop. Supposing Bulba's scum, his team still had to block Death as Bulba wouldn't fake claim something that blocked Death if his team hadn't blocked Death.

Death's read wall and mod confirmation of the fact I expected Death to get no PM really turned around that read. I don't care to lynch Death and I'm reasonably persuaded by his dumb town explanation given his join date.

that is exactly what I just said

what are you even implying here

can I talk to your supervisor please

[Toon Fighter]

@TPTG, the role Cerb had could have been some sort of named townie in his setup. Mods have done that. I find it's best to not outguess the mod unless we have solid evidence of him being wrong. We could just have House check him if we're wrong.

Just to continue this thread, I wouldn't consider a named townie to be a part of a 'vanilaless' setup. That being said, Neighbors could count as a thing by itself.

A named townie is totally not vanilla in an open setup. In closed one it's pretty useless though.

House do you think Drixx is scum? How about Titus?

[Toon Fighter]

don't you know, TPTG? according to Titus, everyone not named Titus is rolefishing and confscum

[Toon Fighter]

Are we doing another flash-lynch?
We all know how that ended up yesterday.

do you have any other suggestions?

[Toon Fighter]

Titus, if you want to see rolefishing and setup speccing, please, look no further than your own mirror

[Toon Fighter]

Titus I want to believe you are town. I can't.

unvote, vote Titus

[Toon Fighter]

@wgeurts (I shouldn't read that since it's not Oranje but ok): Those two are in line to be replaced.

@Titus: Are you still replacing or are you gonna play the game and stop whining?

Guys, we should definitely lynch someone today. If not Titus, I can get behind a Drixx lynch

[Toon Fighter]

bah why is the game always so active when I am asleep and then dead when I can participate? It's not fair

[Toon Fighter]

guys shouldn't we lynch someone ? who's with me?

vote: Drixx

[Toon Fighter]

Did you seriously vote and unvote in the same post?

I kinda don't want to lynch a lurker who is replacing out. When/if he is replaced/decides to stay, I'll take another read at the case

[Toon Fighter]

you forgot odd/pair day no voter/double voter Titus

[Toon Fighter]

@Mod: can you make clear in the first post who is replacing who? thanks

[Toon Fighter]

elusive claiming the other lover now is a very bad idea. If they are both still alive tomorrow or afterwards we can rethink that.

Titus, why must you do so many anti-town things? I really want to believe you are town but you keep making it difficult :/

@Bulbasaur: Why the rush in lynching AD? We have no deadline right now. He is being replaced. Can't you wait for a couple days?

[Toon Fighter]

Why did you repost? And outing a lover now IS anti-town...

[Toon Fighter]

As for PV, the three wagons at the end were Jackal PV and Drixx. Why?

Well, that did just remind me that the PV just sprang up out of nowhere, pretty much. In some fairness, at the time it started up no one had more than 3 votes on them, so it's not like the start was bad, but then it devolved to being between those two, I think, so...

Yes, but it's rolefishing with a town minded purpose. Massclaim is also rolefishing, but again not scummy.Rolefishing and denying it is a wholly different matter.

And why do you want to know who the lovers are, your example notwithstanding?

@TPTG, Yes massclaim D1 would be suspect. This isn't day 1. Only lurksacks haven't claimed.
@BC, Knowing the lovers impacts balance and its highly unlikely for two scum lovers.

As for PV, the three wagons at the end were Jackal PV and Drixx. Why?

Well, that did just remind me that the PV just sprang up out of nowhere, pretty much. In some fairness, at the time it started up no one had more than 3 votes on them, so it's not like the start was bad, but then it devolved to being between those two, I think, so...

Yes, but it's rolefishing with a town minded purpose. Massclaim is also rolefishing, but again not scummy.Rolefishing and denying it is a wholly different matter.

And why do you want to know who the lovers are, your example notwithstanding?

@TPTG, Yes massclaim D1 would be suspect. This isn't day 1. Only lurksacks haven't claimed.
@BC, Knowing the lovers impacts balance and its highly unlikely for two scum lovers.

@TF, why do you label everything I say anti-town before you understand why?

Why did you repost? And outing a lover now IS anti-town...

Repost what?

As for PV, the three wagons at the end were Jackal PV and Drixx. Why?

Well, that did just remind me that the PV just sprang up out of nowhere, pretty much. In some fairness, at the time it started up no one had more than 3 votes on them, so it's not like the start was bad, but then it devolved to being between those two, I think, so...

Yes, but it's rolefishing with a town minded purpose. Massclaim is also rolefishing, but again not scummy.Rolefishing and denying it is a wholly different matter.

And why do you want to know who the lovers are, your example notwithstanding?

@TPTG, Yes massclaim D1 would be suspect. This isn't day 1. Only lurksacks haven't claimed.
@BC, Knowing the lovers impacts balance and its highly unlikely for two scum lovers.

As for PV, the three wagons at the end were Jackal PV and Drixx. Why?

Well, that did just remind me that the PV just sprang up out of nowhere, pretty much. In some fairness, at the time it started up no one had more than 3 votes on them, so it's not like the start was bad, but then it devolved to being between those two, I think, so...

Yes, but it's rolefishing with a town minded purpose. Massclaim is also rolefishing, but again not scummy.Rolefishing and denying it is a wholly different matter.

And why do you want to know who the lovers are, your example notwithstanding?

@TPTG, Yes massclaim D1 would be suspect. This isn't day 1. Only lurksacks haven't claimed.
@BC, Knowing the lovers impacts balance and its highly unlikely for two scum lovers.

@TF, why do you label everything I say anti-town before you understand why?

No. No action is always "anti-town". It depends on the context.

I never said it was ALWAYS anti-town. I said in THIS context it is. Unless elusive was under a lot of suspicion (he is not), we were in very late game (we are not) or there was another very important reason for his lover to claim (there is not), the attitude you had WAS anti-town. Making him claim now is role fishing at its purest and in no way does a claim now and today benefit town. Jeez

[Toon Fighter]

Yeah plotinus is likely town. The claim looks ok, only an hour into the game. and his read of AD is okay. Plotinus are you an hydra? Who are the other members? Did you read anything in the game before you joined?

@cerb and House: Yes, he should claim. But making him claim in his first post without giving him a chance to read? I don't really like putting that kind of pressure on people, and it makes cerb look like jumpy scum.

[Toon Fighter]

Ugh this day has lasted too long...

[Toon Fighter]

Unvote

Decided I don't care about the night skip tonight, mainly because a skip tonight turns death into a VT. Makes it neutral utility, and I think we'll learn more from the kills immediatey after we mass claim than we would from lynching twice in a row today.

What if we lynch a werewolf?

[Toon Fighter]

why do we keep wagoning players replacing out? I just find the whole thing very scummy :/

[Toon Fighter]

hmm... anybody know what a renovator does?

Interior decorator is the usual name. They usually reform and redesign houses. --Oh, you meant in the game. No idea. He claimed nothing, right?

So, good play getting vonflare lynched. Though he was a replacing out player, and the wagon should be teeming with opposite mafia players. Probably not bussing scum though.

About House, was quite expected. Strong role and decent day play. If he survived the day he'd very likely be killed during the night, but oh well.

[Toon Fighter]

What was Vyse's role?

He was a Mafia Evangelist. He recruited people to a mafia-aligned cult that didnt know who recruited them. He used it on BBmolla N1. It gives the recruits a 3-shot scuicide-bomb, so get ready for that.

In addition, I was informed that Narninian is the Mafia Traitor.

Suuuuure, very believable

[Toon Fighter]

Why are we even listening to the flipped scum vonflare?

[Toon Fighter]

Okay just read the last couple pages and a vonflare helping town makes sense here, if he is not the last scum. Everything he says must be taken with a huge grain of salt though.

@deathfisaro: That is commonly known as a Paranoid Gun Owner. But if you are still alive, why do you think BC has a 'mirror kill'?

[Toon Fighter]

why

are we still listening

to flipped scum

why

[Toon Fighter]

ok let me try

vonflare, why didnt you kill ozgin/house?

[Toon Fighter]

I enjoy reading what you write, I just interpret it as a troll!posting

[Toon Fighter]

plus I claimed mason remember? TPTG can confirm it

[Toon Fighter]

No YOU are the scum. Don't forget it.

vonflare, how does a 1-shot rolecop make up for a dead partner?

[Toon Fighter]

Whoever the nuker is just helped town a shitton. No more House, yay!

suuuure, a dead cop is sooooo useful to town

[Toon Fighter]

let me try this one last time

vonflare, why shouldn't vyse be dead? does that mean you believe BC's claim or not?

[Toon Fighter]

you are really enjoying this aren't you?

[Toon Fighter]

so if you're town you should take death out with you. its about the best we can hope for for using your ability.
If you're scum you should probably attack somebody else, as his ability is useless for hunting your team now.

If Elusive is town she should try to shoot scum, not try to off a now-named townie.

Boonskiies has been nearly as much of a non presence in this game as ... I can't even think of someone who registers less on my memory of this game than Boon.

Vonflaire, pre-flip.

Also, I'm fairly sure Boon is operating off of his and death's similar roles. I think.

if he's town than death is lying and therefore is scum.
I highly doubt he's town but just sayin.

this


Intent to vote/hammer elusive and trigger BB. In fact VOTE: BBMolla

[Toon Fighter]

ChriVi:

1) Why did you claim?
b) Who did you target N3?

[Toon Fighter]

It appears I have some difficulty numbering questions. Oh well

[Toon Fighter]

Mod and all, VLA until monday

[Toon Fighter]

The night is only 24 hours in this game. I don't know how much shorter you want it.

Titus, we are town. As has been explained more than once, there isn't even a way for us to be scum consistent with your setup specs. Look elsewhere, k?

[Toon Fighter]

For the record, I think Titus is dumb!town, not scum, but her insistence is really getting on my nerves