Team Mafia 2015 Winners: Young and Beautiful

For Team Mafia 2015 Games and Information
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Team Mafia 2015 Winners: Young and Beautiful

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:58 am

Post by zoraster »

Sign Ups are CLOSED. You may find the Sign Up Thread and sign up as a replacement here


Team Name
Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates
Titus
BlueBloodedToffee
Alchemist
Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage
Alchemist21
Confectionery Animals
Gammagooey
Cheery Dog
Katsuki
Hoopla
Gestalt
fferyllt
Llamarble
Thor665
Nachomamma8
God Save the Black Goo
ChannelDelibird
Cogito Ergo Sum
Fenchurch
Patrick
Indecisive
Mastin2
Pieguyn
notscience
Ms Marangal
Marshmallow
TellTaleHeart
Antihero
Antihero
TellTaleHeart
sthar8
EspeciallyTheLies
Peruvian Flute Band
Cheetory6
Egg
TierShift
JohnnyFarrar
Serrapaladin
Sickeningly Sweet
4nxi3ty
DeasVail
Save The Dragons
Cephrir
Brian Skies
BipolarChemist
TBD
Shadoweh
DeltaWave
GreyICE
Lady Lambdadelta
Lady Lambadelta
GreyICE
team nocaps
Vezokpiraka
shos
BB Molla
Metal Sonic
Metal Sonic
BBMolla
TEAM WITH NO NAME
GuyInFreezer
ika
Boonskiies
ZZZX
The Athenians
Aronis
theelkspeaks
Bins
VysePresident
Micc
VysePresident
Bins
copper223
The Captains
Oversoul
Tammy
Tammy
Oversoul
Trojan Horse
Rhinox
The Cockettes
Untrod Tripod
SleepyKrew
xRECKONERx [/color]
Quilford
The Hitmen
T S O
Aeronaut
Cabd
Kagami
Silverwolf
The Kliq
formerfish
Marquis
jasont1981
Zachrulez
Zachrulez
jasonT1981
Sotty7
The Leftovers
Bulbazak
Ankamius
Wisdom
EddieFenix
pirate mollie
Who
pirate mollie
EddieFenix
The Unviggable Vegetables
AngryPidgeon
ActionDan
Malakittens
Iecerint
ooba
Seraphim
The Westeros Circlejerk
singersigner
Empire
Zar
Regfan
Zar
Empire
Mina
Young and Beautiful
wgeurts
Espeonage
Aneninen
Psyche
T-Bone
Espeonage
wgeurts


All teams will play in the 20 player game and 3 of the other 5. This means 20 teams will participate.

More details on these games will come as we establish them.

Time Line

March 26th: Role PMs go out.
29th: 20p Theme Game
30th: White Flag and Nightless
31st: Normal Game and and Twin Trap
1st: (Tentative) 13p Mini Theme

Prize!

Winning Team Members will get a Banner under your name (preliminary: Image) until the 2015 scummies are given out. They will also automatically get a chance to defend their title in the subsequent Team Mafia.

Spoiler: Rules
Token System: Game and Side Selection

There are three stages for random generation. First, to decide which three of the five non-mandatory games each team is placed in. Second, to decide which SIDE each player is placed on. Third, to decide which (if any) players get power roles. The token system applies to the first two.

1. Each team starts with 5 tokens.
2. During the game selection phase, each team will have listed their preference of games (1 through 5). for every game but the large theme Each team may place between 0 and 5 tokens on the game selection phase. The team that places the most tokens on this phase will get their top 3 picks automatically. The second most will also do this, until this is no longer possible, after which the mods will fill the remaining games based on the token order as best we can. In the event of a tie that makes a difference, the moderators will use their best judgment to place teams. For each game that a team is placed into that was not in their top 3, a token will be refunded for use in the Side selection (but no team may enter the side selection with more than 5 tokens).
3. After this is done, each team will pick which player they wish to place in which game (note: this is BEFORE side choice is chosen)
4. During the side selection phase, each team may place the remaining tokens on the games they are in, selecting which side they'd prefer. This will influence what side a player is on as described below
5. Power role (if applicable) selection is unaltered by the token system.

Side Selection

If unaltered by tokens, each player in the game has a random number generated between 500 and 600. The lowest X numbers are Mafia (where X is the number of Mafia in the game).
Each token put on Mafia on the game lowers the lower bound by 65. Each token put on Town on the game raises the upper bound by 50.



Winner Selection

If one team wins more games than any other team, they will be champion.

Tie Breaker

If two or more teams have the most games won, the winner will be selected from those teams using the following criteria, each given one point of weighting:
1. Winning the 20 player game.
2. Having a higher rating on player surveys.
3. The Team Mafia moderators' selection of the most valuable team.

It is possible that two or more teams will tie based on these criteria. If this is the case, the Team Mafia moderators' choice will break the tie.

Team Surveys

Each player will get a survey at the end of the game asking to rank the players on the winning side. Please answer as honestly as possible, and don't try to game the system. Please DO place yourself first.

Dynamic Deadlines


Each game will use its own deadline system. The Nightless game will have generally 1-week deadlines, while the rest will have generally 2-week deadlines. Nights will generally be 48-72 hours. However, if a game is starting to get ahead or behind other games, the deadlines may be adjusted.

Daytalk

All games will have Day Talk between Mafia members.

Team Private Topics

1.Your team will have a Team Private Topic.
2. You may copy and paste whatever you want INTO the team PT. You may
not
copy and paste text OUT OF the PT.
3. You may continue to post in this PT even when you are dead.
4. You have nearly complete freedom on what you can post in your PT with regards to the game. Most restrictions are about what you can post in game threads. Site rules still apply.

Alternate Methods of Communication

1. Your team members may communicate through use of text-based communication such as IM programs (AIM, Gchat, the text part of Skype, etc.) so long as you are able to copy and paste in a readable form into a PT.
2. If you do so, you must copy ALL of the transcript where you talk about anything relating to the game into your PT. Make sure your logging is ON so that if you get disconnected you still have the transcript.
3. Please try to make this readable. Please turn off timestamps as they make it pretty hard to read in a quick topic.
4. Please edit out completely unrelated chat. You can leave in small talk when you IM someone or whatever, but the mods don't need to pour through a dozen lines talking about how drunk you got last weekend, how well you're doing with LoL, etc. unless it somehow relates to the game.
5. For all other purposes, consider this IM chat just an extension of your PT. Any rules that apply there also apply to your IM conversations. For example, no player may paste from an IM conversation into a game thread.
6. You should paste the transcript in immediately after you finish your conversation.

Talking About Other Games

1. Players may mention other games within Team Mafia only to talk about things that have been mod confirmed such as what a player flipped when they were killed. They may not speculate about another game’s players (such as who is scummy and so forth). You may not talk about how bad a wagon was, etc. You must keep it to only the information provided by the moderator.
2. To reiterate: speculation about other games is prohibited.
3. Any attempt to try to signal to another game what they should or should not do is against the rules.
4. Attempts to be “clever” and circumvent these rules will be treated harshly. We will “pierce” hypothetical questions or answers, ignoring the hypothetical nature and assume that it is meant to be a factual statement.
5. A major violation is defined as one that has the potential to be game breaking. For example, if your teammate is dead and flipped town, posting about who is scummy in that game will be a major violation.
6. Explicitly Allowed: You may mention who is on each team. You may mention what stage (e.g. Day 2) a game is in. You may mention how many players are left alive from a team, including your own. You may mention how many scum have been killed/alive in a particular game (or town alive/killed). You may talk as much as you wish about a game that is finished. You may also speculate on how a team may have allocated their tokens, but may not do so to try to speculate on the actual alignment of a player in another game.
7. None of this applies to your team PT. You may post what you wish in there.

Your Teammates are Always Innocent Until Proven Guilty

1. You may at no time say, indicate, insinuate, etc. that your Team Mafia teammates are or might be anything other than town. This includes in any hypothetical situation.
2. Exception: You may talk about your teammates being scum if they have flipped scum in another game (i.e. are dead).
3. If a player is NOT on your team and is still alive in another game, you must follow the rules in the Talking About Other Games thread. In other words, you may not speculate on a player's alignment in another game.

Replacements

1. It is your job to replace team members who are not active. If a moderator has to take action, there will be a penalty.
2. To replace a team member, you must PM Zoraster AND the moderator of your subgame.
3. You may replace with anyone who is not currently on a Team Mafia team. However, only four people may be involved in the PT at any time. A replaced team member may not participate in any way unless he is replaced back in.
4. A teammate who died in one game may replace another player so long as (a) he does not mention that game at all and (b) his team has not used their swap. This may occur after Day 2.
5. A dead player may still be replaced so long as the team follows 3.
6. You may switch two players who are alive in games ONCE for the duration of Team Mafia 2015. It must be done in D1 or D2.
7. The mod will force replace any player who has not posted within a week of his last post (not including Night). This will come at a penalty to the team.
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Post Post #5 (isolation #1) » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:52 am

Post by zoraster »

Thanks to diginova for working on the art: Image

He says he wants to do some more stuff with it, but looks pretty neat.
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Post Post #11 (isolation #2) » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:28 pm

Post by zoraster »

Katsuki wrote:
Katsuki wrote:No theme games this year?...


and no 1-5 selection for games like TM2? :(



What?

16p Theme Game (all participating teams) by hitogoroshi

Is the theme game.

And the token system replaces the draft selection.
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Post Post #52 (isolation #3) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:50 am

Post by zoraster »


THIS SPREADSHEET IS NOT THE SIGN UPS


Just a little spreadsheet to help individuals and incomplete teams find teams. This is just for convenience. You'll need to PM members on the list to form your team.
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Post Post #53 (isolation #4) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:10 am

Post by zoraster »

ooops forgot to share. now you should be able to edit
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Post Post #57 (isolation #5) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:44 am

Post by zoraster »

Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Zor, 3 questions:
1) Is it public information how each team spends its tokens?
2) If not, are you allowed to talk about how you spend your tokens?
3) Are team members allowed to talk face-to-face?


1. No
2. Yes
3. I can't really regulate it, but I'd prefer communication happen where it can bring the whole team into the conversation.
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Post Post #58 (isolation #6) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:45 am

Post by zoraster »

Guys, please don't abuse the spreadsheet. It's intended to be helpful. It's not really funny to put names of other people.
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Post Post #60 (isolation #7) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:24 am

Post by zoraster »

Yeah, that's actually sort of a temporary placeholder for the actual mathematical way I'll do it (since actually having equal numbers of tokens on each side doesn't work out), but the essence is that you get to influence which side your individual players get but don't get to decide it, and it's connected to both stages.

Previous versions had a ton of outright guessing based on team compositions since you got all the role pms at once and decided who was taking what role (so if you're in a game with Mina who thinks she can't play scum, you can be reasonably confident that she would have made her teammates give her town). This way there's a little of that, but really no sure things. That's particularly true if everyone tries to get town in a certain game, for example.
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Post Post #62 (isolation #8) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:36 am

Post by zoraster »

no, absolutely not.

This is the updated token side selection:

Side Selection

If unaltered by tokens, each player in the game has a random number generated between 500 and 600. The lowest X numbers are Mafia (where X is the number of Mafia in the game).
Each token put on Mafia on the game lowers the lower bound by 100. Each token put on Town on the game raises the upper bound by 80.

Numbers are definitely subject to change.
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Post Post #64 (isolation #9) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:41 am

Post by zoraster »

You can, but still must follow this:

Your Teammates are Always Innocent Until Proven Guilty
1. You may at no time say, indicate, insinuate, etc. that your Team Mafia teammates are or might be anything other than town. This includes in any hypothetical situation.
2. Exception: You may talk about your teammates being scum if they have flipped scum in another game (i.e. are dead).
3. If a player is NOT on your team and is still alive in another game, you must follow the rules in the Talking About Other Games thread. In other words, you may not speculate on a player's alignment in another game.
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Post Post #67 (isolation #10) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:46 am

Post by zoraster »

ZZZX wrote:
zoraster wrote:3. If a player is NOT on your team and is still alive in another game, you must follow the rules in the Talking About Other Games thread. In other words, you may not speculate on a player's alignment in another game.

so you cant help your team mate in scum hunting etc??


This refers to another section. Please read section.
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Post Post #77 (isolation #11) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:08 am

Post by zoraster »

why don't i see either of you on the spreadsheet then?
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Post Post #88 (isolation #12) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:00 pm

Post by zoraster »

winners + the other team also won all four games and just didn't win due to the way the previous one was scored.
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Post Post #98 (isolation #13) » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:39 am

Post by zoraster »

4
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Post Post #100 (isolation #14) » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:54 am

Post by zoraster »

On the 12th a sign up thread will go up. One person (probably captain) will post in that thread with your team members and your team name. On the 15th sign ups will close. On the 16th the teams will be randomly chosen.
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Post Post #102 (isolation #15) » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:15 am

Post by zoraster »

there, changed a word.
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Post Post #111 (isolation #16) » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:41 pm

Post by zoraster »

Have you considered Kanye
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Post Post #126 (isolation #17) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:50 am

Post by zoraster »

Team Mafia Sign Up Thread (it's not open yet, but if you're looking for more sign-up focused details, they are there).

Most crucially, you will notice that there is a benefit to signing up in the first 24 hours of sign ups, but that some teams will be selected as late as Monday.
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Post Post #128 (isolation #18) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:17 am

Post by zoraster »

A.
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Post Post #131 (isolation #19) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:23 am

Post by zoraster »

team captain is my point of contact.
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Post Post #132 (isolation #20) » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:37 am

Post by zoraster »

Sign Ups begin tomorrow. Hype.
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Post Post #144 (isolation #21) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:03 am

Post by zoraster »



USE THE SIGN UP THREAD.
Sign ups here will not be counted.

Please remember that sign ups in the first 24 hours are entered into the Early Bird selection.
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Post Post #154 (isolation #22) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:31 am

Post by zoraster »

You mean this rule?

None of this applies to your team PT. You may post what you wish in there.
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Post Post #156 (isolation #23) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:29 am

Post by zoraster »

any of the team mafia games, yeah.
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Post Post #159 (isolation #24) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:11 am

Post by zoraster »

Kind of, yes. but you cannot compose things for other people to post.
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Post Post #174 (isolation #25) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:39 am

Post by zoraster »

Just want to update for teams: we're looking into adding another game (and expanding the large theme) to fit in a few more teams. This may not work out, but if you're planning your team choice strategy, please note that it may have to change a little.
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Post Post #180 (isolation #26) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:04 am

Post by zoraster »

which one is that because i have about 5 i want for it!
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Post Post #186 (isolation #27) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:48 am

Post by zoraster »

I'm going to make it official:

We are adding a new game leaving us with the following:

20 player Large Theme game by hitogoroshi -- All teams
13 player White Flag by Equinox
13 player Normal by Nexus
13 player Theme by Magua
12 player 8:4 Nightless by quadz08
9 player Open by Zoraster

I'll give more details on those games later, but this allows us to have 20 teams in this! All teams will play in hito's
monstrosity
large theme game, but teams will get to try to pick which 3 of the remaining 5 games their team joins.
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Post Post #189 (isolation #28) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:33 am

Post by zoraster »

Token System Tweaks


I know this is a bit confusing, but basically it's this: you have 5 tokens to spend. You can put it on picking the games you want or, once games are selected, on which side you want. Once it's time to select, I'll break it down a bit more simply for teams to be able to fill out their forms.

Token System: Game and Side Selection

There are three stages for random generation. First, to decide which three of the five non-mandatory games each team is placed in. Second, to decide which SIDE each player is placed on. Third, to decide which (if any) players get power roles. The token system applies to the first two.

1. Each team starts with 5 tokens.
2. During the game selection phase, each team will have listed their preference of games (1 through 5). for every game but the large theme Each team may place between 0 and 5 tokens on the game selection phase. The team that places the most tokens on this phase will get their top 3 picks automatically. The second most will also do this, until this is no longer possible, after which the mods will fill the remaining games based on the token order as best we can. In the event of a tie that makes a difference, the moderators will use their best judgment to place teams. For each game that a team is placed into that was not in their top 3, a token will be refunded for use in the Side selection (but no team may enter the side selection with more than 5 tokens).
3. After this is done, each team will pick which player they wish to place in which game (note: this is BEFORE side choice is chosen)
4. During the side selection phase, each team may place the remaining tokens on the games they are in, selecting which side they'd prefer. This will influence what side a player is on as described below
5. Power role (if applicable) selection is unaltered by the token system.

Side Selection

If unaltered by tokens, each player in the game has a random number generated between 500 and 600. The lowest X numbers are Mafia (where X is the number of Mafia in the game).
Each token put on Mafia on the game lowers the lower bound by 65. Each token put on Town on the game raises the upper bound by 50.
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Post Post #190 (isolation #29) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:40 am

Post by zoraster »

EDIT: Also gotten a couple of questions about this: token use is private. Other teams will not know how you allocated your tokens.
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Post Post #192 (isolation #30) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:48 am

Post by zoraster »

i did alter it. remember that you're choosing among 5 games, not 6 because everyone is in the large theme.
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Post Post #197 (isolation #31) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:54 am

Post by zoraster »

EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Why are we choosing who goes where BEFORE receiving role PMs? That doesn't make sense to me.


To avoid conversations like this: "Zoraster is well known to really hate playing scum and being really, really bad at it. There's no way his team would place him on a scum role"

While you could mitigate the chance of Zoraster getting put on a scum role by putting a token on it if you want, you can't assure it.
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Post Post #201 (isolation #32) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:02 am

Post by zoraster »

correct
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Post Post #203 (isolation #33) » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:14 am

Post by zoraster »

yeah :-/
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Post Post #220 (isolation #34) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:37 am

Post by zoraster »

Having more games than teams has advantages beyond just more players. Competitive balance-wise having teams of six playing in six games might be best (sample size is larger) but I think four games is about the max that players can reasonably be expected to follow.

Also if people have thoughts on what 9p open should be played I an definitely willing to consider it. Just remembers that it has to fit in well into team mafia: it shouldn't be too swingy or rely too heavily on the actions of just one person, particularly a town person.
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Post Post #222 (isolation #35) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:10 am

Post by zoraster »

Matrix6 would be fine with me but I know many people have mixed or negative feelings about it. I'm not as in tune with newbie stats and what not so if someone who knows more in depth it's strengths and weaknesses wants to describe those....
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Post Post #225 (isolation #36) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:43 am

Post by zoraster »

Hi guys, so... this year there are going to be 80 players in 20 different PTs just for Team PTs, not to mention scum PTs and the like. That's a whole lot to keep track of as the overall mod.

What this means is that while I'm trying to keep tabs on everyone's PTs and will answer questions as I see them, I might miss it. If you have a question about the game that you want answered, I encourage you to get your captain to PM me. Bolding a question in your PT may have a significant delay or get missed altogether.

That said, communication in your PTs is essential. It helps teams out, and if there's a tie at the end, it may be something the mods look to for that factor in the tie breaker.
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Post Post #232 (isolation #37) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:01 am

Post by zoraster »

you might check the spreadsheet, AP
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Post Post #240 (isolation #38) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:52 am

Post by zoraster »

I'm not too fussed about whether it's a very open semi-open (as matrix6 is) or a truly open.

In your suggestion above CES, isn't Town JK, VT, Goon pretty different in win chance than Town JK, Mafia Tracker, Town Motion Detector?

That's my only real objection to Matrix6/C9 type solutions: if some setups are markedly better for town/scum than others, it kind of sucks that random generation is what decides a hefty part of the game.
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Post Post #242 (isolation #39) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:59 am

Post by zoraster »

I mean our newbies do matrix6. It's really not that complex, it's basically "here are 6 setups it could be."

I think the difficulty with the above is making it an open, and the swing factor (1-shot cop who gets a guilty swings the game toward town significantly, 1-shot cop who gets an innocent/dead guy or is killed before revealing result swings the game pretty heavily toward scum).
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Post Post #244 (isolation #40) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:02 pm

Post by zoraster »

where did the roleblocker come into the conversation?
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Post Post #246 (isolation #41) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:03 pm

Post by zoraster »

One setup was suggested in the mod thread was Twin Trap which at first glance seems crazier than it actually is.
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Post Post #250 (isolation #42) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:10 pm

Post by zoraster »

i've considered the vote, but don't think having the town vote would be a wise idea.
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Post Post #252 (isolation #43) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:24 pm

Post by zoraster »

Because they'd pick the most beneficial setup and it'd introduce gamesmanship to picking the game where it doesn't necessarily create a great atmosphere (there is a little bit if i just allow votes: you could pick a super town-sided setup and then put all your tokens on being town in that setup, but this is less than just outright letting town choose). It also seems a unfair to scum.
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Post Post #254 (isolation #44) » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:46 pm

Post by zoraster »

alternating 9p is a good suggestion too
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Post Post #260 (isolation #45) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:36 am

Post by zoraster »

Just a reminder that sign ups close tonight at 20:00 edt
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Post Post #271 (isolation #46) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:23 am

Post by zoraster »

it sucks to make RNG the biggest individual player in the game. Also, Town Cop vs. 2 Goons is a setup that robs a lot of agency from the scum, not to mention the nearly 60% town win rate for newbies is going to be very tough in a team mafia environment.
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Post Post #273 (isolation #47) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:51 pm

Post by zoraster »

Why are you awake? What is your life.
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Post Post #277 (isolation #48) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:00 am

Post by zoraster »

Because it's one thing to give reads, advice, etc. It's another to play the game for the other members in your team.

Also, all teams should have access to their Team PTs now. Also, all game mods now have access to all those PTs, and the OPs have been updated with some crucial information.
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Post Post #279 (isolation #49) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:08 am

Post by zoraster »

It is a hard rule and you will be removed from the game if you do so.

It's up to the individual game moderator, but I don't have a problem with you writing a post for another scum member in your day talk PT. This is only a rule for Team PTs.
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Post Post #281 (isolation #50) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:14 am

Post by zoraster »

Before you get your role PMs I don't care that much, though I'd appreciate IM conversations posted in. After that point, all communications (including prods and so forth) should be either with me CCed or pasted into the thread.
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Post Post #282 (isolation #51) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:18 am

Post by zoraster »

Time Line updated
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Post Post #284 (isolation #52) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:31 am

Post by zoraster »

Yes, once I can give a few more details on exactly what each game is, I'll send each Captain a form that'll make things simpler. I hope anyway!

---

Spoiler: Long Explanation and Example For You
For now, essentially it's this. Imagine you start with 5 tokens.

You can place those on either getting the games you want or getting the side you want in particular games or a mixture.

Teams will rank in order the 5 optional games 1-5 with 1 being the one you want the most. Starting with the teams that put the most tokens on game selection, I'll start divying up teams into games. The team that places the most tokens into game selection will thus automatically get into all the games they want. Once it's impossible for me to put teams into their preferred games, I'll starting using their 4th picks until that's impossible. For every game you're placed in that wasn't in your top 3, you'll get a token back (up to a maximum of 5, so you can't gain more tokens than you started with)

After games have been selected for each team, each team will then submit what players they want to place in what games, and if they want to use a token on those games to influence the side selection.

Ignoring tokens, each player in each game will have a random number between 500 and 600 generated. The lowest numbers are mafia, the highest numbers are town. For each token you place to make a player mafia, it will lower the lower bound by 65. For each token you place on town it will raise the upper bound by 50. So a player that has a single token placed on mafia will generate a random value between 435 and 600 rather than 500 and 600, thus making it more likely he'll be scum. A player that has three tokens placed on town in a game will have a number generated between 500 and 750, thus making it significantly more likely a player will be town.

(Incidentally, the change for scum is higher than town because you need more of an extreme number to be scum given that most players are town).

So as an example. Let's say I have the Skittle Club Team with Zoraster, quadz08, mith and Vi.

We as a team want the Nightless, White Flag, Theme, Normal and 9p Open in that order. We rank that and decide that we're okay with most games, so we just put 1 token on it.

At game selection, we end up getting Nightless, Theme game and Normal. Because we had a pick that wasn't in our top 3, we get our token back, leaving us with 5 tokens for the game selection.

We decide that Vi is really good at scum and Zoraster is really good at town, so we decide to split our tokens between the two, putting 3 tokens on Vi for scum and 2 on Zoraster for town. In those games, rather than generating a number between 500 and 600, they'll generate between 305 and 600 for Vi and 500 and 700 for Zoraster. The other players on the team are simply generated between 500 and 600.
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Post Post #288 (isolation #53) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:04 am

Post by zoraster »

up to each team, but not by default.
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Post Post #290 (isolation #54) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:07 am

Post by zoraster »

i need to look at what we decided last time on that, but I'm not amped at the idea of people basically having conversations cross-games with other people
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Post Post #297 (isolation #55) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:16 am

Post by zoraster »

okay, then that's probably what we'll do here.
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Post Post #299 (isolation #56) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:49 am

Post by zoraster »

please don't. While it wouldn't necessarily do anything terrible, it'd just introduce another variable and generally make this thread more annoying.
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Post Post #301 (isolation #57) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:28 am

Post by zoraster »

oh just in this thread. In your PT, obviously you can do so whenever. Once the game starts, you're more than welcome to speculate in game threads (though paying attention to the rule about not talking about other games).

I just don't want a lot of actual public game talk before we even start the game
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Post Post #307 (isolation #58) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Post by zoraster »

PM please. You'll get a form to fill out in the nearish future.
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Post Post #312 (isolation #59) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:04 pm

Post by zoraster »

yeah, i literally made it a global announcement.
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Post Post #313 (isolation #60) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:05 pm

Post by zoraster »

Teams Please Do Not Send Me Game Selections Yet


Captains, you will get a PM with the information you need to submit. Don't submit anything yet. I will ignore it.
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Post Post #315 (isolation #61) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:25 pm

Post by zoraster »

well now i'm clarifying, so back off!
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Post Post #318 (isolation #62) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:23 am

Post by zoraster »

Topic moved to Team Mafia 2015 Forum folder.
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Post Post #320 (isolation #63) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:50 pm

Post by zoraster »

Just a reminder to teams that they need to submit their game preferences by tomorrow (Saturday March 21st) by 20:00 EDT.


Spoiler: Teams I Have Game Selections From
The Cockettes
The Westeros Circlejerk
God Save the Black Goo
team nocaps
Gestalt
Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates
The Kliq
Sickeningly Sweet
The Athenians
Young and Beautiful
Confectionery Animals
The Unviggable Vegetables
The Leftovers
TBD
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Post Post #321 (isolation #64) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:21 am

Post by zoraster »

Spoiler: Updated Teams with selections in
The Cockettes
The Westeros Circlejerk
God Save the Black Goo
team nocaps
Gestalt
Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates
The Kliq
Sickeningly Sweet
The Athenians
Young and Beautiful
Confectionery Animals
The Unviggable Vegetables
The Leftovers
TBD
TEAM WITH NO NAME
Marshmallow Pillow Fort


so i only need 4 more teams to submit.
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Post Post #324 (isolation #65) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:45 pm

Post by zoraster »

notscience (or someone on his team) has exactly one hour from this point to fill out the form or Team Indecisive will be replaced by Kagami. I have too many teams and too many people playing to hunt captains down that can't follow directions.

Every other team has successfully submitted.
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Post Post #325 (isolation #66) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:37 pm

Post by zoraster »

all submissions are in. processing soon.
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Post Post #328 (isolation #67) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:03 pm

Post by zoraster »

Here are the game assignments. I need to get to bed tonight (after spending like an hour on this), but I'll PM all captains with the number of tokens left for their player selection.

PLEASE DO NOT PM ME WITH YOUR PLAYER SELECTIONS YET. MORE INFORMATION IS FORTHCOMING



Image

Teams sorted by alphabetical order. The Hitmen is accidentally green (it was my current search term).

Please note in this thread if I've made a mistake and put a team in too many games or too few.

Do not note whether you got your selection or not in the public thread
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Post Post #330 (isolation #68) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:35 am

Post by zoraster »

Hitogoroshi has submitted the following information about his game:

Signs and Void is a twenty player large theme created specifically for Team Mafia 2015 by hitogoroshi. It is a conflict between sixteen
Creation
aligned players and four
Annihilation
aligned players. The battle began when Alquin ro Said met the darkness and woke long-dormant Signs into being, and it will continue with you.

Signs and Void features two unique mechanics:

Signs of Power:
Three powerful Signs have been drawn, and their power is only beginning to be felt: the Blade, the Candle, and the Stone. All players will be bound to one of these Signs. The Signs have no intrinsic effects, but affecting another player with your powers generally requires you knowing their Sign.

Existence and Void:
Annihilation and Creation are continually attempting to overcome one another. Sometimes, the players will not truly exist, while other times, they will be starkly defined. This reflects itself in the pattern of Minor and Major Days and Nights. They will alternate with a Minor Day and Night followed by a Major Day and Night, unless a different aspect of the setup ever states otherwise. The game begins on a Minor Day. When the game is in a Minor Phase, players cannot be lynched or killed, as there is not enough realness in them to be ended. However, players will find the world more malleable than the concrete real they have come to know. When the game is in a Major Phase, by contrast, the stakes are enormous.

Additional information about the setup will be posted in the thread when role PMs are assigned. No player (except a modkilled one) will have their win condition change from what it was at the start of the game.



----


Important

I would not try to subject the game selection process to rigorous process of elimination analysis to figure out how many tokens teams would have had left. Because of the nature of the beast, sometimes teams that spent fewer tokens were placed into their higher priority games to those who spent more. I tried hard to make sure that those who spent more tokens got into more of their games than those who did not, but this was not always possible. It is possible that had I used a different method to assign games it would have worked out more optimally.

I think on the whole we largely accommodated most team's wishes.
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Post Post #331 (isolation #69) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:35 am

Post by zoraster »

Metal Sonic wrote:can captains such as I egopost in the games that my teammates are in?


No. Bookmark it. Also, all games are in the Team Mafia 2015 folder, which is accessible from the Index page.
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Post Post #333 (isolation #70) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:44 am

Post by zoraster »

Also, your team captains now have access to the Player and Side selection form. Make sure they have the selections in by tomorrow, March 23rd at 20:00 EDT.
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Post Post #336 (isolation #71) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:38 am

Post by zoraster »

By the way, if any enterprising soul wants to help me out and list all of the teams that share exactly the same games with other teams (e.g. Gestalt and Marshmallow Pillow Fort), I'd think that was pretty cool.

I think there are 9 possible combinations.
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Post Post #340 (isolation #72) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:48 am

Post by zoraster »

Thanks, CES. For a visual representation:

Image
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Post Post #341 (isolation #73) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:50 am

Post by zoraster »

So the largest combinations are WF, MT, VN and MN, MT, TT
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Post Post #345 (isolation #74) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:02 am

Post by zoraster »

twice so far!
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Post Post #346 (isolation #75) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:45 am

Post by zoraster »

Numbers of Scum


Games have the following numbers of scum. This is included to allow you to consider how to spend your tokens.


Large Theme
4 Mafia (20% Scum)
White Flag
3 Mafia (23% Scum)
Mini Normal
3 Mafia (23% Scum)
Mini Theme
3 Mafia (23% Scum)
Vanilla Nightless
4 Mafia (33% Scum)
Twin Trap
2 Mafia (22% Scum)

Overall 19 out of 80 roles are scum for ~24% scum.

There is no multiball, all scum is on the same team. All scum have daytalk.
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Post Post #350 (isolation #76) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:00 am

Post by zoraster »

I meant 33%. You saw nothing.
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Post Post #355 (isolation #77) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:17 am

Post by zoraster »

I will be happy if I never have to have another discussion about optimal colors.
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Post Post #362 (isolation #78) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:52 pm

Post by zoraster »

I have the following teams who have submitted. Teams have until tomorrow at 20:00 EDT to submit.

Spoiler: Already Submitted Teams
team nocaps
God Save the Black Goo
The Westeros Circlejerk
The Cockettes
Peruvian Flute Band
Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates
Sickeningly Sweet
The Athenians
TBD
Confectionery Animals
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Post Post #364 (isolation #79) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:27 am

Post by zoraster »

The following teams have submitted their player assignments and side selection. If your team is not on the list, it might be time to start bothering your captain about it as the deadline is tonight at 20:00 EDT.

Spoiler: Teams Already Submitted
team nocaps
God Save the Black Goo
The Westeros Circlejerk
The Cockettes
Peruvian Flute Band
Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates
Sickeningly Sweet
The Athenians
TBD
Confectionery Animals
Indecisive
Gestalt
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Post Post #367 (isolation #80) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:45 am

Post by zoraster »

zoraster wrote:The following teams have submitted their player assignments and side selection. If your team is not on the list, it might be time to start bothering your captain about it as the deadline is tonight at 20:00 EDT.

Spoiler: Teams Already Submitted
team nocaps
God Save the Black Goo
The Westeros Circlejerk
The Cockettes
Peruvian Flute Band
Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates
Sickeningly Sweet
The Athenians
TBD
Confectionery Animals
Indecisive
Gestalt
Young and Beautiful
Marshmallow Pillow Fort
TEAM WITH NO NAME


Updated. This means we have 5 teams who have not yet submitted. Make sure you do so.
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Post Post #371 (isolation #81) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:33 pm

Post by zoraster »

I did the RGAM but have to redo it. Inexplicably one team put 5 token on every side selection. They will have their number set to zero and notified of this fact. I will redo RGAM thereafter.
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Post Post #372 (isolation #82) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Post by zoraster »

RGAM Try two at 8:34 central
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Post Post #374 (isolation #83) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:40 pm

Post by zoraster »

unfortunately i ran out of memory on my phone so people will just have to trust that i didn't cheat. Sorry.
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Post Post #376 (isolation #84) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:42 pm

Post by zoraster »

This will be prettied up in a bit, but just so you have the information:

Large Theme Players

ActionDan
Antihero
Aronis
Bulbazak
ChannelDelibird
Cheetory6
DeasVail
Espeonage
fferyllt
Gammagooey
GuyInFreezer
Marquis
Mastin2
Shadoweh
T S O
Tammy
Titus
Untrod Tripod
Vezokpiraka
Zar

White Flag Players

Aeronaut
Ankamius
BlueBloodedToffee
Cheery Dog
Cogito Ergo Sum
ika
Llamarble
Oversoul
Psyche
Regfan
TellTaleHeart
theelkspeaks
Zachrulez

Mini Normal Players

Boonskiies
DeltaWave
Egg
Fenchurch
jasonT1981
Malakittens
Micc
Pieguyn
Save The Dragons
SleepyKrew
sthar8
Thor665
Trojan Horse

Mini Theme Players

Cabd
Cephrir
copper223
Iecerint
Katsuki
Lady Lambdadelta
notscience
Rhinox
shos
T-Bone
TierShift
Who
xRECKONERx

Vanilla Nightless Players

Albert B. Rampage
EddieFenix
Empire
GreyICE
Hoopla
Metal Sonic
Nachomamma8
Seraphim
Silverwolf
Sotty7
wgeurts
ZZZX

Twin Trap Players

Alchemist21
BBMolla
BipolarChemist
EspeciallyTheLies
Mina
Ms Marangal
Patrick
Quilford
Serrapaladin
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Post Post #379 (isolation #85) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:51 pm

Post by zoraster »

By team:

Team Name
Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates
TitusBlueBloodedToffeeAlbert B. RampageAlchemist21
Confectionery Animals
GammagooeyCheery DogKatsukiHoopla
Gestalt
fferylltLlamarbleThor665Nachomamma8
God Save the Black Goo
ChannelDelibirdCogito Ergo SumFenchurchPatrick
Indecisive
Mastin2PieguynnotscienceMs Marangal
Marshmallow Pillow Fort
AntiheroTellTaleHeartsthar8EspeciallyTheLies
Peruvian Flute Band
Cheetory6EggTierShiftSerrapaladin
Sickeningly Sweet
DeasVailSave The DragonsCephrirBipolarChemist
TBD
ShadowehDeltaWaveLady LambdadeltaGreyICE
team nocaps
VezokpirakashosMetal SonicBBMolla
TEAM WITH NO NAME
GuyInFreezerikaBoonskiiesZZZX
The Athenians
AronistheelkspeaksMicccopper223
The Captains
TammyOversoulTrojan HorseRhinox
The Cockettes
Untrod TripodSleepyKrewxRECKONERxQuilford
The Hitmen
T S OAeronautCabdSilverwolf
The Kliq
MarquisZachrulezjasonT1981Sotty7
The Leftovers
BulbazakAnkamiusWhoEddieFenix
The Unviggable Vegetables
ActionDanMalakittensIecerintSeraphim
The Westeros Circlejerk
ZarRegfanEmpireMina
Young and Beautiful
EspeonagePsycheT-Bonewgeurts
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Post Post #380 (isolation #86) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:55 pm

Post by zoraster »

Remember: if you have some sort of personality problems with a particular player, each team may swap two of their players. This may only happen once in Team Mafia and it must happen before Day 2 ends.
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Post Post #383 (isolation #87) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:57 pm

Post by zoraster »

two players being swapped, so once. So if I'm in a game and hate Magua, I can swap with my teammate hito so that he can play with that jerk Magua and I can play against my friend Nexus and Equinox.
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Post Post #384 (isolation #88) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:00 pm

Post by zoraster »

Also, for scum and any other PTs that might be involved, teammates will be added so that they can view the PTs, but they MUST NOT post in those threads if they aren't in the game.
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Post Post #387 (isolation #89) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:05 pm

Post by zoraster »

Yeah the goal is to get role PMs out on the 26th, with pregame chat (scum chat) beginning that day too.
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Post Post #392 (isolation #90) » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:44 am

Post by zoraster »

vezokpiraka wrote:One question: can we ask other teams how they spent their tokens?


Yes, but remember that you cannot refer to other games, quote other games, etc. except in the ways allowed. So if, for example, someone contradicts their teammate, you can mention it in your team PT but not in the game thread.
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Post Post #394 (isolation #91) » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:21 am

Post by zoraster »

Well, do whatever you'd do if you scumread someone because of something they did in another ongoing game.
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Post Post #400 (isolation #92) » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:50 am

Post by zoraster »

The game hasn't begun. Keep your token fishing to yourself.
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Post Post #410 (isolation #93) » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:43 am

Post by zoraster »

trash talk all you want as long as you're not discussing anything specific to team strategy or tokens or what-not.
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Post Post #432 (isolation #94) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:29 am

Post by zoraster »

Individual players will start to get Role PMs throughout the day (game mods will be sending them out). Expect it to be a bit spread out.
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Post Post #435 (isolation #95) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:42 am

Post by zoraster »

Twin Trap PMs are out.
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Post Post #440 (isolation #96) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:56 am

Post by zoraster »

Plus hito has decided to do his entirely in treasure hunt/puzzle format, which will send you to the far reaches of the internet. Also, geocaching may be necessary.
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Post Post #442 (isolation #97) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:01 am

Post by zoraster »

By the end of the game, you will have deciphered the fourth panel of Kryptos.
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Post Post #451 (isolation #98) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:59 am

Post by zoraster »

Gotten a couple of questions, but just to confirm: you may copy and paste your role pm into your team PT.
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Post Post #453 (isolation #99) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:16 am

Post by zoraster »

hang on.
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Post Post #456 (isolation #100) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:25 am

Post by zoraster »

So a major problem, some sensitive information was posted here that should have been posted in the inconveniently titled "Main Planning" thread. Trying to figure out how to handle this, but if you're involved in that game (or your teammates are) please PM me. Not sure if that will be sufficient, but trying to figure out how to handle it.
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Post Post #457 (isolation #101) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:46 am

Post by zoraster »

Just an update: I have top scientists working on this.
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Post Post #459 (isolation #102) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:33 pm

Post by zoraster »

It still applies, but you would know.
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Post Post #461 (isolation #103) » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:16 am

Post by zoraster »

Rerolling Magua's Mini Theme


As I mentioned yesterday, there was a significant mod error made by me: I posted the identity of one scum member of the Mini Theme in this thread.

1. The game's alignments will be rerolled WITHOUT tokens.
2. The game will be redesigned to remove setup knowledge. There are two possible ways this will go that Magua and the rest of the team are working on, but no one should have additional information about the setup from this.
3. This may delay the Mini Theme's start date by a few days, but hopefully we can get a quality setup done that doesn't put us behind schedule. Regardless, there will be at least 48 hours between Role PMs going back out and the game's start (so that scum can still pre-plan).

My sincerest apologies to everyone in the game, particularly those players and teams who spent tokens on the game. I'll keep everyone as up to date as possible.
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Post Post #465 (isolation #104) » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:48 am

Post by zoraster »

I'd appreciate if everyone keep to their team threads about this.
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Post Post #467 (isolation #105) » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:53 pm

Post by zoraster »

good news: rerolling may not be necessary after all. Kison has come through once again and we're able to look up who all had access to the thread while the offending post was up. we're checking into it.
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Post Post #471 (isolation #106) » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:57 am

Post by zoraster »

Probably should have just locked this thread from the beginning. Locked now.
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Post Post #472 (isolation #107) » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:24 pm

Post by zoraster »

Some updates:

1. We are rerolling Magua's game. Hopefully we can get the setup done tomorrow so we can get role PMs out and that game can start by Tuesday or Wednesday.
2. Tomorrow is the official start of Team Mafia's games! We're starting off only with the big honkin' one, hito's Large Theme.
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Post Post #473 (isolation #108) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:21 am

Post by zoraster »

Please note that I have adjusted the time line. Today, the Large Theme will begin. Tomorrow, White Flag and Nightless will begin. Tuesday, Twin Trap and the Mini Normal. And tentatively (conditional on us getting role pms out by tomorrow), Wednesday will begin the Mini Theme.
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Post Post #474 (isolation #109) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:44 am

Post by zoraster »

The Large Theme has started! HYPE!
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Post Post #475 (isolation #110) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:12 pm

Post by zoraster »

Because of Nacho's inadvertent post in the Large Theme the following is being done


1. fferylt will be treestumped (no vote, no power, not targetable but can still post) but removable (see game post)
2. Gestalt will receive a 1-point penalty in the event of a tie-break (see Tie-break section of the Main Thread)
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Post Post #476 (isolation #111) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:27 pm

Post by zoraster »

An update, quoting hito:

hitogoroshi wrote:
Hi Signs and Void players and those following along. I want to follow up on the decision made regarding Nacho's inadvertent post in the Signs and Void thread.

We had two main goals for the decision. The first is that we wanted to punish Gestalt for the mishap, which we did through the administration of a tiebreaker penalty. The second was to allow Gestalt enough of a chance to influence the game state that they could rightly be included if Creation wins, while trying to benefit Annihilation on the whole. The hope was to come to a decision that punished Creation, but give Gestalt a chance to minimize the negative consequences they caused their faction, something a traditional modkill doesn't allow. This is not ordinarily a priority, but for Team Mafia in particular it's much healthier for the event as a whole.

I came to the decision quickly after consulting with some of the TM mod team, but did not have time for a complete discussion because I wanted to resolve the issue swiftly and allow the game to continue. After getting a chance for a fuller discussion, we've decided that while the decision accomplished most of its objectives, it could actually be interpreted as a negative outcome for Annihilation to trade the "free lynch" for fferylt's confirmed town, voteless status. In light of that, we are amending the conditions slightly to say that
fferylt will die at the end of Major Day One, with no kill required from Annihilation.
This will be the final decision on the matter.

Apologies to all of the players for the disrupted gamestate; it is our sincere hope that this will help Team Mafia be as fair and enjoyable as possible. As before, it is highly appreciated that you do not discuss this in thread. And remember, PT's are purple.

-hito
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Post Post #477 (isolation #112) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:41 pm

Post by zoraster »

Zar (Large Theme) and Empire (Vanilla Nightless) of Westeros Circlejerk have switched games. They may now post, etc. in their new game. This uses Westeros Circlejerk's one swap.
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Post Post #478 (isolation #113) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:40 am

Post by zoraster »

Kagami replaces SilverWolf on Team Hitmen, effective immediately. Kagami may begin posting now. Silverwolf will be removed from the Team PT, and Kagami will be added.
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Post Post #479 (isolation #114) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:52 am

Post by zoraster »

TellTaleHeart (White Flag) will switch with Antihero (Large Theme) for Team Marshmallow Pillow Fort
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Post Post #480 (isolation #115) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:19 pm

Post by zoraster »

pirate mollie replaces Who on The Leftovers
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Post Post #481 (isolation #116) » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:53 am

Post by zoraster »

A couple of things I thought I'd let people know/remind about:

1. Please PM me if you have a question about the game. Posting in your team thread or site chatting with me is a very ineffective way of getting in touch. I try to comment on things when I see them, but I have a lot on my plate here, and I am often not in a position to see either site chat or team private topics.

2. Remember that teams have a responsibility to replace players. We're now in our second week of games, so if you start to notice your teammates getting prodded, not posting, etc. make sure you contact them or replace them as you will be penalized if a game mod has to replace a player in.
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Post Post #482 (isolation #117) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:12 pm

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singersigner replaces Empire in Westeros Circlejerk
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Post Post #483 (isolation #118) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:31 am

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VysePresident replaces Micc
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Post Post #484 (isolation #119) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:52 pm

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ooba replaces Seraphim
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Post Post #485 (isolation #120) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:17 am

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JohnnyFarrar replaces serrapaladin
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Post Post #486 (isolation #121) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:58 am

Post by zoraster »

Tammy (Signs and Voids) switches with Oversoul (White Flag).
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Post Post #487 (isolation #122) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:57 am

Post by zoraster »

Eddie Fenix (Vanilla Nightless) switches with Pirate Mollie (Mini Theme).
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Post Post #488 (isolation #123) » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:43 pm

Post by zoraster »

Bins replaces copper on The Athenians
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Post Post #489 (isolation #124) » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:16 pm

Post by zoraster »

formerfish replaces Marquis on The Kliq
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Post Post #490 (isolation #125) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:16 am

Post by zoraster »

Aneninen replaces Psyche on Young and Beautiful
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Post Post #491 (isolation #126) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:05 am

Post by zoraster »

Brian Skies replaces Bipolar Chemist from Sickeningly Sweet
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Post Post #492 (isolation #127) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:13 am

Post by zoraster »

Wisdom will be replacing Eddie Fenix in The Leftovers
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Post Post #493 (isolation #128) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:46 am

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GreyICE swaps with LadyLambadelta
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Post Post #494 (isolation #129) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:18 pm

Post by zoraster »

Bins (dead in Mini Theme) and VysePresident (Mini Normal) swap
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Post Post #495 (isolation #130) » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:04 pm

Post by zoraster »

OP should have an up-to-date table as of right now.
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Post Post #496 (isolation #131) » Thu May 07, 2015 3:51 am

Post by zoraster »

OP up-to-date
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Post Post #497 (isolation #132) » Fri May 08, 2015 6:05 am

Post by zoraster »

Zachrulez (dead) swaps with JasonT1981 in the Mini Normal
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Post Post #498 (isolation #133) » Sat May 09, 2015 3:46 am

Post by zoraster »

Metal Sonic (dead) swaps with BB Molla
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Post Post #499 (isolation #134) » Sun May 10, 2015 2:25 pm

Post by zoraster »

quadz08 wrote:
The game is over!


The
Town
has won!


The Town Was:
  • Ooba
    Seraphim
    (The Unviggable Vegetables)
  • Pirate Mollie
    EddieFenix
    (The Leftovers)
  • ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)
  • Hoopla (Confectionery Animals)
  • Nachomamma8 (Gestalt)
  • wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
  • GreyICE (TBD)
  • Alchemist
    Albert B. Rampage
    (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)


All participants may discuss the Nightless game openly in the other games.
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Post Post #500 (isolation #135) » Tue May 12, 2015 10:02 am

Post by zoraster »

4nxi3ty replaces DeasVail
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Post Post #501 (isolation #136) » Wed May 13, 2015 2:49 am

Post by zoraster »

zoraster wrote:
TOWN WINS!

The following teams get credit for a win:

Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates
God Save the Black Goo
Indecisive
Sickeningly Sweet
team nocaps
The Cockettes
The Westeros Circlejerk

Congratulations to the winning teams!


All participants may now discuss Twin Trap openly within the other Team Mafia games.

OP is up to date
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Post Post #502 (isolation #137) » Fri May 22, 2015 12:30 am

Post by zoraster »

Op is up to date.

Please note that I am on vacation for the next week. I'll be checking on my laptop once or twice a day, but my response time may be slower than normal.
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Post Post #503 (isolation #138) » Sun May 24, 2015 4:36 am

Post by zoraster »

Op up to date with WF ending
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Post Post #504 (isolation #139) » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:54 am

Post by zoraster »

wgeurts (dead) swaps with Espeonage
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Post Post #505 (isolation #140) » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:14 am

Post by zoraster »

AngryPidgeon replaces ActionDan
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Post Post #506 (isolation #141) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:24 am

Post by zoraster »

OP is up to date. Just one game to go!
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Post Post #507 (isolation #142) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:03 am

Post by zoraster »

YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL ARE THE WINNERS


wgeurts
Aneninen
T-Bone
Espeonage

all win!

In addition to getting an automatic spot in the next Team Mafia (whenever that might be), they will receive the special winner's icon under their username until the next scummies.
---
I'm on a laptop at a coffee shop right now because my internet is totally out at home, so a lot of things will have to wait until later (unlocking of scum threads for example).

But a few quick thoughts:

1. Thank you to my mods: quadz, Nexus, Equinox, hitorogorshi and Magua
2. ESPECIALLY Magua. He designed a hilarious setup in a matter of a day or so because I messed up. He did so without getting angry (as would have been his right), and I actually think his game was pretty terrific.
3. My apologies overall to everyone involved with the mess up.
4. Some people wondered about the side selection and whether it was flawed: it wasn't. It was simply that people spent a LOT of tokens on being town, particularly in the Vanilla Nightless.
5. Young and Beautiful were the only team that won all four games. I know it was suggested in the dead thread that something other than wins should determine things, but ultimately any team that is perfect in their games should be eligible for a victory.
6. Replacements were interestingly an issue this time around. The policy was pretty similar to last time, and future iterations will have this policy reexamined, but I want to emphasize that there is zero chance players will be modkilled for flaking or replacing.
7. The large theme was in theory a well devised setup for our needs: it was 20 players large, but it couldn't last a ton longer than the other games, but it couldn't just have killing roles added willy-nilly. That said, in the future (and I've said this every time), I want to focus on simpler setups. I think Team Mafia is already complex enough with enough moving parts that a setup that is difficult to understand probably isn't the best place. That said, I think hito's setup was pretty great.
8. Six games was a lot. I'm not sure I liked having a micro involved.

Anyway, there's a lot more I want to talk about, but it involves having internet on my main computer. Please leave any CIVIL comments here!

Thanks everyone for playing. Don't forget to nominate individuals for scummies. With 6 games and some of the best players in the game, surely there's something you want to nominate!
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Post Post #567 (isolation #143) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:29 am

Post by zoraster »

oh that's a good idea. But i'm only going to move and open Team PTs if explicitly told to do so by a team member BY PM. Otherwise, it'll remain locked.
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Post Post #569 (isolation #144) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:35 am

Post by zoraster »

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Post Post #600 (isolation #145) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:48 am

Post by zoraster »

Psyche wrote:now,
i know i replaced out
but i played much more than Anenine (all of D1 and much of D2) did and only replaced out due to personal struggles;
that replaceout was done totally by-the-books, through a lot of concerted and thoughtful teamwork, and was not in reaction to prods or
unless you really, really, really hate replacing out even when done completely legitimately, i think there is a strong case for allowing me to share in the spoils of victory of my team


Sorry. Them's the breaks.
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Post Post #602 (isolation #146) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:54 am

Post by zoraster »

Psyche wrote:i will not forget this slight



Image
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Post Post #631 (isolation #147) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:34 pm

Post by zoraster »

just to reiterate: I won't do anything unless I am told by a team member BY PM. It helps when you link me to the thread in question too btw (I see every PT on the site, so sometimes going through it takes me a long time).
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Post Post #645 (isolation #148) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:29 pm

Post by zoraster »

Glork wrote:
zoraster wrote:5. Young and Beautiful were the only team that won all four games. I know it was suggested in the dead thread that something other than wins should determine things, but ultimately any team that is perfect in their games should be eligible for a victory.

As someone who didn't participate (didn't know how cancer treatment would affect my time on site) but followed along, I feel fairly confidently neutral in saying this: This is pretty terrible.

It's been shown long ago that win/loss records don't really correlate in any way to talent/ability or contribution. This is especially true when game imbalance and uneven distribution of factions plays a factor. I never won a paragon based on win/loss record, and though I haven't tallied my raw statistics in years, I know that at least as of like 2011 I had more town losses than wins. There's something fundamentally wrong with the scoring when a team that did relatively little in their victories happened to be the only team that went 4-0, because their non-teammates carried them to victory four times. The idea that overall win/loss record should be a major determining factor in Team Mafia is about as backwards as can be.


If there is something "fundamentally wrong" with it, then there is something fundamentally wrong with Team Mafia as a whole. Either we operate under the (perhaps fictional) idea that skill influences wins or we don't. But I'm not having a winner of Team Mafia as a whole be a team that won fewer games than another team. It would be unfair, it would defeat the purpose of Team Mafia, etc. It's one thing to use subjective measures as a tie-breaker. It's another to act as if wins and losses don't matter -- they do.

Ultimately I don't know how much simpler or fairer it can be than this: If you win more mafia games than other teams, you win Team Mafia. Any other standard is unacceptable.
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Post Post #661 (isolation #149) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:13 pm

Post by zoraster »

If you can name OBJECTIVE standards (i.e. not things like surveys, mod opinion, etc.) that feel like the evaluate a true winner I'm open to considering them. I tried last time to factor some other stuff into it, namely being correct on Day 1 lynch (either being correctly on a lynch of a scum, or correctly off a town lynch). But that experiment didn't work, and I don't think it proved to be any more satisfying.

But it's more beauty pageant than tournament if you start to lean heavily on subjective standards over your primary objective ones (i.e. winning).

No, a team that wins 4 games when all other teams win 3 games is the correct winner. That's not "narrow" at all. Sometimes the team you think performed better doesn't win -- that doesn't mean the result was "wrong" though. Because it's World Cup Time (women's): the soccer match isn't decided by the team that had the most shots on goal -- it's decided by goals.
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Post Post #668 (isolation #150) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:18 pm

Post by zoraster »

SleepyKrew wrote:
zoraster wrote:the soccer match isn't decided by the team that had the most shots on goal -- it's decided by goals.
SleepyKrew wrote:Yeah but you don't give MVP to a crappy player who won because their team did well in that scenario.

Also this analogy is gonna be painful because of how we're going to use "team" to mean three different things.


I don't understand why subjective measures like mod opinion and surveys aren't okay.


I'm not awarding an MVP. I'm awarding a winner.

Anyway, as I've said, I think they're fine things to use for determining the winner when the game wins are equal. Had town won the Mini Normal, it would have been determined by the tie breaker factors: surveys and mod opinion.
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Post Post #669 (isolation #151) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:19 pm

Post by zoraster »

SleepyKrew wrote:
Zachrulez wrote:Why even play to win if sweeping might not even matter?

are you kidding


I think it's a fair question, particularly for people who feel like their play style isn't particularly valued by others.
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Post Post #671 (isolation #152) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:20 pm

Post by zoraster »

I've considered giving penalties to teams who are lynched Day 1, but rejected it as it incentivizes power claims and gives advantages to those who are power roles.
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Post Post #694 (isolation #153) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:54 pm

Post by zoraster »

fferyllt wrote:
Zachrulez wrote:
zoraster wrote:I've considered giving penalties to teams who are lynched Day 1, but rejected it as it incentivizes power claims and gives advantages to those who are power roles.


You could have larger teams next time, or have the teams be the same size but each player plays two games or something. It's probably much less likely for things to end in a tie with more games.

Also gives you a chance to come back with a much stronger performance after losing if you have a 2nd game to play afterwards. ;)

Just floating ideas...


more games is good, but I thnk it's important for all teams to be in all games


It's a balancing act. I'd love to do six man teams in six games, but I worry about making people follow six games. Four seems like a lot as it is. But just Four games was too few. The first team mafia ended with an eight way tie for first with 2 wins a piece. That felt unsatisying.
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Post Post #747 (isolation #154) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:11 am

Post by zoraster »

There are teams with longer PTs, but it's not like Young and Beautiful did nothing: they had 30 pages worth of posts, which is 2 fewer than The Cockettes, 2 more than Indecisive (which were the other two teams that had a chance of winning going into MN's lylo).

Blue, Meth, Blade had 50 pages, which is the most.
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Post Post #773 (isolation #155) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:57 am

Post by zoraster »

I don't think I'll do game/side selection in the same manner next time. What it improved in achieving certain design goals, it made worse by increasing how complicated it was.

Anyway, to those saying they'll play (or not play) next year, it won't be until 2017 earliest (honestly, I thought the 3 year turnaround was pretty good, but 2 years might be good too). I think people's stamina and interest for this type of thing is reduced if it's done too often, not to mention this is a pretty big undertaking for me, and it means that for about 6 months I don't get to run any other games that I want to run.
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Post Post #775 (isolation #156) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:02 am

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yeah, that's likely the method I'll use next time. It was less ideal in that it involved a TON of "well X would NEVER choose to be scum" arguments, which the tokens did somewhat avoid (though the argument against swaps was strongest when focusing on how swapping reintroduced that factor back in). But I also felt like fewer people got really discouraged (other than the Screaming Death Clan who drew 3/4 scum).
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Post Post #823 (isolation #157) » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:45 am

Post by zoraster »

Thanks to Thesp who added it to the FTP, I have added the icon to 3 out of 4 members of Young and Beautiful. T-Bone unfortunately is a bit harder as I need to combine his image and his scummy into one file and get thesp to add it. Anyone who wants to do that for me will expedite the process, or I'll do it in a bit.
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