8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[EddieFenix]

Hi MS. I see this is your town game peeking thru.

[EddieFenix]

Hi MS. I see this is your town game peeking thru.

Once again, can someone explain this?

Please see post 58

[EddieFenix]

Mod: Prods on EddieFenix and Hoopla please

I post within the first 100 posts/24 hours and you want a prod? Ok. Here's your prod. I think you and wgrets are scum.

Sorry but I don't see them (admittedly, it could be because I'm bad).

wgeurts

, Regfan thinks that your posts and your stances regarding SilverWolf and ABR look like you being too reluctant to lead your own push and instead just waiting to see where the wind blows before joining it. Is this true??

Eh, I'm the one that first attacked MS for the reasons I gave. He's blatantly lying and the posts he then gave after that only confirmed my suspicions.
My whole read on him is based off those posts, he was townish (slightly) before them.
I can go state why his posts are dripping with lies if you want again?
I'll shred every sentence to dust.

I've watched MS pull gambits before as both town and scum. It comes as no surprise to me. Him blatantly lying is also another thing he does and I've watched it catch scum before too. However, please take the time to spoiler a 1v1 on you shreding every last sentence to dust. I will gladly read it over.

ZZZX and MS are town reads for me right now. ABR, while starting off hot tempered and setting off a few alarms, has me leaning town/null now. Already have 2 scum reads as stated above.

Oi ms a special message from GIF:

STOP TUNNELING WGE. HE IS TOWN

May I ask why?

^ Seconded.

[EddieFenix]

"Now what have I done town?" Earned a vote....

Vote GreyIce

If you can't let your actions speak for them self, then you are definitely try harding.

[EddieFenix]

Alright, why are you voting Silverwolf, Hoopla?

[EddieFenix]

umm dude I don't actually think you can talk about the theMe game

Given it's public information, not going to ignore it. There's no tokens in the current version, so it's not like it gives away anything about current alignments.

Has anyone played with Eddie before? Is he always this lazy?

Firstly, not lazy so don't even try to pull that crap. Especially when 26 hours hadn't even passed within the game before you were squawking for a prod on someone who posted within the first 26 hours of the game. Twice. Add to the fact that your posts have been mostly fluff, and you get a very, VERY hungry me.

Secondly, quit trying to be all, "look at me, I'm active! Look how town I am with my activity!!! Look how lazy he is!!!" You just add fuel to the fire.

Thirdly, drop the token discussion, it's completely pointless at this point. In your 17 posts, it has been the focus of it in 4-5. While you have bullshit in about... 9 or more of those 17 posts? If the collective group iso's the two (Sotty and GreyIce) you'll see quite the difference.

[EddieFenix]

You didn't bother to read past the first line of the post dude. That's just sad. That's just completely and utterly sad.

It's like bargain basement benmage.

I read that entire post, and you're assuming things. That's what's sad. Completely and utterly sad.

[EddieFenix]

I also would like ZZZX to go deeper on his scum read on me. The why especially.

[EddieFenix]

Eddie is either not reading what I'm saying or pretending not to. He's used that to ignore the rest of the game.

The assumption train just keeps on a chuggin. This is your 2nd post that tries to look town. Your post on Sotty reeks of attempted salesmanship. MS hit the nail on the head in commenting on it.

I came into the game with 2 reads to make sure to keep an eye on, MS and ZZZX. MS's wagon is so obviously bad that any idiot with half a brain could see this.

You didn't bother to read past the first line of the post dude. That's just sad. That's just completely and utterly sad.

It's like bargain basement benmage.

I read that entire post, and you're assuming things. That's what's sad. Completely and utterly sad.

You read the entire post, and decided the most important thing was the question at the fronf, and that tokens were worth ignoring despite

hard evidence

they weren't?

What did you think of Sotty's inconsistencies? Anything? Do you have any thoughts at all on it? Because as far as I can tell all you're doing is revving a giant chainsaw.

I think Sotty's "inconsistencies," as you so put them, are under my microscope and I'm keeping a very keen eye on them as we move forward. If you're going to say I'm "chainsaw defending" them, you better bring a case to the table then that.

Essentially turn the game into a vengeful? I'm down with that. It's got to be better than trying to put together an all-town wagon.

The skillset of all townies required to orchestrate a lynch against scum playing optimally on D3/4 is just way too unrealistic for them to all have. Turning it into a vengeful after D2 is surely better odds, because there is guaranteed no scum manipulation. We're gonna sacrifice accuracy compared to a good scumhunter's choices, but there is too high a chance that they're scum to blind trust a good player. Let the guaranteed innocent person choose, even if it seems stupid.

Let's focus on TODAY. We're not going to try and plan for something like this when there's plenty of time to discuss everything. Even then, there's no way in hell I'd follow along with this plan. No chance in hell.

[EddieFenix]

Unvote
Vote: Kagami

My vote should be here, it didn't registered for whatever reason.

So you have 2 reads that you consider scum, and a town read that was replaced that you are now voting. Can I get a line of logic in this?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: eddie

Hehe

Cute. Reason?

Yeah, pretty sure ABR's town.

Welcome to about 200 posts ago.

[EddieFenix]

Don't explain my vote? "It's all about tokens". Do explain my vote? "It's just salesmanship!"

I see a person who appears intelligent yet seems incapable of responding to analysis or reasoning. Despite being asked to.

BAAAAAAAA

Vote: Eddie

Unvote
Vote: Kagami

My vote should be here, it didn't registered for whatever reason.

This is your warning bell, townies.

Choo-chooo!! All aboard the Eddie train!! Choo-Chooo!!!

[EddieFenix]

Good. I want more people on the Eddie train. Seven of them would be very, very nice.

I explain my exact reasoning, and you accuse me of "salesmanship" without responding to a single fucking thing I'm saying?

Burn.

Burn?

I'm going to roll my eyes into the back of my fucking skull at this rate, I figure you would put up a better case or argument. I'm also not the first person to see your "case" on Sotty as a pathetic attempt at selling it.

It actually sounded like a rhetorical question though. Like those dudes giving a presentation or some salesman.

Strangely he didn't actually answer the question though, what he has done town. He just told a grandma story about theme game then took a huge dump on sotty

YET! No quote or response to Metal Sonic when they mentioned it.

[EddieFenix]

Yo Nacho get back and help us lynch scumfuck McGee please

Someone string this up

[EddieFenix]

By the by friends, my case on Sotty is now terrible. A page ago?

I think Sotty's "inconsistencies," as you so put them, are under my microscope and I'm keeping a very keen eye on them as we move forward. If you're going to say I'm "chainsaw defending" them, you better bring a case to the table then that.

Yeah.

This is why pressure is fun, it's interesting to watch players crack under it.

Who isn't voting Eddie and why?

So, side step after crying for help to Nacho, and then attempt to scream "lookie! I caught someone again!!!" If you think you have me "pressured", think again.

[EddieFenix]

I'm not trying to convince you your role PM is red. You know it is, it's a waste of time.

I just need five more townies to see the light.

What light? Please, show them this magical light you speak of.

If Eddie flips town ICE is town.

^if eddie flips scum

When I flip town, what then?

[EddieFenix]

I'm perfectly fine with a Wgeurts, Seraphim, or Hoopla vote in part with my current vote on GreyIce. Those are my big 4 right now.

[EddieFenix]

I'm ok with a sotty lynch if we do the vengeful thing starting with day 1.

Then let's do it.

No. God no.

[EddieFenix]

ICE is scum, sotty will request a venge on him. He will try to wiggle out. We'll lynch him and his team will be painfully obvious from the events of today.

You of all people should be happy about that, eddie.

I'm not happy when I have scum by the throat, they do everything they can to sidestep and wiggle from me, when it's OBVIOUS they are scum, yet town wants to go, "let's lynch this person instead and then do this venge plan cause it'll work great." Just.... No.... Just.... Noo........

[EddieFenix]

Kagami is suddenly absolutely convinced I'm scum, but willing to hang Sotty first, because he likes my points on tokens.

Nope, but nice try. Sotty is town, you are not. The reason I'm ok with lynching sotty is that there's otherwise zero chance in this gamestate of lynching you, the actual scum. For strange cosmic reasons, a lot of people think you're town and they simply can't all be partners. Once you're lynched, your team has no prayer. As you correctly stated, this setup is a snowball-fest.

And please point me to when I "suddenly" became convinced, because I had you as scum on my first read through.

Bulba's theory is that the scum team is made up of 3-4 strong players. We're looking at Grey Ice, Hoopla, and POSSIBLY Nacho (because this type of play from GI is not making sense if nacho is not on their team). Bulba thinks they are playing a Capcom chaos style game by hard town reading one another and that GI's plan would work wonders for scum, because even if one of them gets hit, they could pull off a win.

[EddieFenix]

Bulba's theory is that the scum team is made up of 3-4 strong players.

Sotty is a very strong player.

Bulba thinks they are playing a Capcom chaos style game by hard town reading one another

Seraphim goes from a serious, reasoned, determined vote on Sotty to saying she shouldn't be lynched today. He coats it with a nice whipping cream of "I just want to allow her to post more", sure, but absolutely, unequivocally, says she is a bad lynch for TODAY. No matter what else she posts, he states that his decision is made.

Sotty says she doesn't want to lynch Hoopla at all because her first posts -all about setup strategy and no scumhunting at all, mind you- are good and that she "likes Hoopla too much".

Those are hard defenses right there.

What about GI's posts of saying, BEFORE Hoopla even posted, that Hoopla was more likely to spend tokens to roll scum with the token set up (I hate referencing this), and then 180's entirely and starts working with Hoopla and saying their town?

[EddieFenix]

Checking out for the day. Classes all day.

[EddieFenix]

Why the fuck are people voting Kagami?? Are you srs right now?!?!

[EddieFenix]

ABR, thoughts on GI's post?

[EddieFenix]

ABR, thoughts on GI's post?

Looks like he wanted to give Hoopla space to work, and then she stopped posting, so it didn't work, and he doesn't townread her.

So yeah. Let's vote Sotty out.

I'd rather vote GreyIce. I'm willing to bet both of my testicles that he's scum.

[EddieFenix]

Lemmie guess, I help you vote sotty, and then I get my wish on GreyIce?

[EddieFenix]

I know, MS. It's why I refuse to move my vote.

[EddieFenix]

Figure you would catch your own mistake, MS. Especially after doing a sentence by sentence analysis of the quote itself.

[EddieFenix]

By the by, I'd say Eddie would be pretty funny ball-less, but what's the difference?

Bravo -slow clap-.... Did you're scum pals write that one for you?

[EddieFenix]

Tell me specifically who says what please.

Kagami is suddenly absolutely convinced I'm scum, but willing to hang Sotty first, because he likes my points on tokens.

Nope, but nice try. Sotty is town, you are not. The reason I'm ok with lynching sotty is that there's otherwise zero chance in this gamestate of lynching you, the actual scum. For strange cosmic reasons, a lot of people think you're town and they simply can't all be partners. Once you're lynched, your team has no prayer. As you correctly stated, this setup is a snowball-fest.

And please point me to when I "suddenly" became convinced, because I had you as scum on my first read through.

Bulba's theory is that the scum team is made up of 3-4 strong players. We're looking at Grey Ice, Hoopla, and POSSIBLY Nacho (because this type of play from GI is not making sense if nacho is not on their team). Bulba thinks they are playing a Capcom chaos style game by hard town reading one another and that GI's plan would work wonders for scum, because even if one of them gets hit, they could pull off a win.

I'll dig into my team PT tomorrow for more. Bed for now.

[EddieFenix]

Who's replacing out. Sotty is town and apart of our ideal town block (MS, Kagami, ZZZX, Zar, and Myself).

[EddieFenix]

Who's replacing out. Sotty is town and apart of our ideal town block (MS, Kagami, ZZZX, Zar, and Myself).

Where do you stand on ABR?

Lone wolf town.

[EddieFenix]

To make things clear,

You're reading Sotty as town but less town than the aforementioned "ideal town block" candidates?

That was the list Bulba posted to me to try and wrangle up as a town block. Tryin to get a long post out to explain things. Gimmie a bit.

[EddieFenix]

That makes no sense. Why do you believe Sotty to be town? She's provided little to no content.

And here I was trying to go to bed. I'm trusting my teammates who are in my ear. Especially when I have my hydra partner on my team and our reads click/are in-sync (anyone who knows when Bulb and I are in-sync knows what happens).

To put in a tl;dr of this, GreyIce and Hoopla were i.ded as scum, given Grey's quite strange interaction involving Hoopla. Of course, we all saw that Grey started out by saying Hoopla would try and dive in for scum. Hoopla decided to drop into the game finally and start posting. We then see a mild suspicion of Hoopla from Grey with this happening and then a COMPLETE 180 in this happens on "information they both knew". To only NOW, pull this shit to where MS, pokes his head out to explain and hammer the last point home... And to top it all off, MS and GI's exchange from 567-570 (especially GI's 568 response to MS's 567), shows more and more that GI's is trying to avoid confrontation.

Not only that, but we get this complete and utter bullshit plan of a "vengeful game" after the 2nd mislynch from Hoopla and GreyIce. Which, when you READ the theory if you are a complete idiot, you will look at that and go, "yeah... That's a GREAT idea." However, this is REALLY a BAAAAAAAD idea on so many levels especially with a GOOD scum team. Given how shaken we are as a town as it is, it's easy for scum to worm in on 2 mislynches, town can't exactly rally back from that with a strong scum team. Even if one of their team gets hit, in vengeful we will get people who will venge due to emotional reasons, write off scum as conf town because "yo! We helped hit scum." Everyone then follows in line like good little ignorant sheep after that and we follow the venge plan, and we've LOST this. A Sotty push makes the most sense due to Sotty being one of the players able to derail that plan. Which is why as soon as I explained everything and mentioned what Kagami said here, I was informed to attempt an immediate branch with Kagami. When she reads this, hi... Here's a branch, fucking take it and ride it to kingdom come, please.

Right now, the 2 players we (as a team) keep wanting to see die in a fire are GreyIce and Hoopla. We're RATHER hesitant on Nacho as well, Shaky town at BEST. ABR, while town in our opinion, is too much of a lone wolf to try and wrangle into the block. Best to leave him be, let him roam, and get his assistance in lynching when we can.

[EddieFenix]

^the above post is inflammatory

Agreed

[EddieFenix]

Who's replacing out. Sotty is town and apart of our ideal town block

(MS, Kagami, ZZZX, Zar, and Myself).

This is an attempt to build a "town block" with enough scum to win the game in it. Kagami? Sotty? Eddie? Why is Silverwolf/Kagami suddenly town? No explanation from Eddie. Sotty? No explanation from Eddie.

And if you think he and his team has done anything to try and push either Kagami or Sotty to get these town reads, I invite you to read his ISO.

They are not there.

The questions are not there.

(Because I can talk to my team in PRIVATE and discuss POSTS with them)

The inquisition is not there. He marginalizes ABR as "lone wolf town" when I can quote a dozen examples of ABR trying to build a consensus.

Eddie, I invite you. Do you stand behind your read, Eddie? Do you think that you were correct?

Do you stand behind your read of ABR as lone wolf town, Eddie? Are you willing to say that you are actually reading the game?

Eddie, nothing you are saying is honest. Nothing you are saying is coming from a player who is reading the game. Do you stand behind your statements or disown them, scum.

Yes. What you're saying and trying to base this WHOLE argument over is that because I personally didn't interact with certain players that I want to start a town block with said certain players that you see as scum and to not trust my teams opinion at all, when they have their own eyes in the game and can see this shit as it is unfolding, fucking astounding. There's plenty of time left for explanation on things, people coming in and reading, and THEN once their attention is pulled here fully, THEN you reach out. Plus, if you're going to throw the idea of Silverwolf/Kagami in my face and Sotty, I'm going to throw Empire/Zar in yours. I figure people can ASSUME my team is in my fucking ear, but apparently if you don't come out and say it, WELP! It's all so sudden!!!


I've not exactly had ALL the time in the world to dedicate to POSTING in this game, because trust me I'd love to do that to see you swing. I can assure you I'm reading. Before I could even get a post in the game (post 68 is where I came in), I was told to trust Metal Sonic and ZZZX.

I was informed that you also threw Sotty off their game right from the get go. So, I go back and I iso the BOTH of you to see what's up there (sotty and GI), and if you read it post by post....

Post 107, "Especially Hoopla, as it fits her profile to token scum" YET is voting Sotty. Sotty comes in and tells GreyIce to fucking stick it in his ear about that token bullshit. Then we get THIS!

Interesting.

Why would you say "tokens" is bullshit? They give you an enormous ability to influence your role PM. The idea that we should simply ignore this seems ludicrous.

But even more than that, you've won today's lottery!

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

So my reason is shitty, but even if it wasn't, I should have voted Hoopla rather than you based on it?

Congratulations! You win a noose!

Sorry I'm lynching you for the wrong reasons, scumbag.

Claims to have "caught" scum. When... If anything, Hoopla, logically, should have been his first vote, with his token discussion nonsense. "So my reason is shitty, even if it wasn't, I should have voted Hoopla rather than you based on it?" Um... Iunno?! We've all done some crazy drugs and shit too I guess, cause I'm the magical pixie it seems.

You claimed to be voting me because I was likely to use tokens to make myself scum. That is untrue, it is pretty well known I favor town if any tokens were to be spent on me it would be in that direction as Nacho hinted at. Not only that but you said that Hoopla was more likely to push a token scum draw than myself yet your vote is on me. Why me over her? You're going after the weaker of the two options you listed for yourself and that's not the GreyICE I remember at all.

You remember me? Interesting. What game was that, to give you such a strong impression?

As for recent play experience, I'll save your team the digging - I've been semi-retired for ages. I think the last game I played with Hoopla was like a year ago. My work schedule, moving, and a whole lot of shit has fucked my ability to commit to mafia.

Firstly, I point out, she's asking, with GreyIce's own logic that he put out himself that Hoopla would be more warranted to token scum, why is it that he's voting her over Hoopla? Pointing out, he's going for the "weaker" of the two options scum potential wise in all that token mess/discussion that he put out that assaulted our brains early on and people were like, just get past this shit dudebrah.

"what game was that, to give you such a strong impression?" Meaning, narrow down, out of all the games that you could potentially list or even remember for that matter, narrow it down to one? Sotty delivers the one game that stands out in their mind in 118... To which we get....

Wow, I had forgotten that tiger eaten abortion of a game.

Why do I think you would spend tokens on your scum play? It's literally legendary. Believe it or not, I don't think that the tokens were spent "counterintuitively" very often. You'd hardly be the first returning player to take scum (mith himself did it in the first one).

Why you? I wanted to see how you'd respond. Hoopla just complains that everyone always finds her scummy, she'll pop up with some theory blather in a few days. I was hoping you'd be more interesting. And you were.

But wait, you firstly said Hoopla would spend tokens on scum and now you're saying that Sotty would spend them on scum because their scum game is legendary?! Would we have gotten the same reaction had she NOT mentioned that one specific game, but many others? And in that same post, you don't think tokens were spent "counter intuitively" very often?? Dare I mention that this was for a reaction test as well and that he claims to have caught scum with it?? Ahhh god my brain hurts and it's not over.

But first, need to touch this right quick

You claimed to be voting me because I was likely to use tokens to make myself scum. That is untrue, it is pretty well known I favor town if any tokens were to be spent on me it would be in that direction as Nacho hinted at. Not only that but you said that Hoopla was more likely to push a token scum draw than myself yet your vote is on me. Why me over her? You're going after the weaker of the two options you listed for yourself and that's not the GreyICE I remember at all.

Last quote, makes mah brain hurt because why is that even a thing if you can barely remember games plural you've played with these people and the one you do remember is a VERY, VERY bad one that they will use against you as seen in 118? Why not take a minute to go back and look thru a few games to be safe if he left THAT big of an impression on you? Unless you CAN'T go back and you have to go off of the top of your memory would be my BEST guess here... UGH. Fuck me.

I think GreyICE is really stretching my scum game and is choosing to ignore my actual preferences to make his vote fit.

I apologize that I caught you for the wrong reasons. It was quite terrible of me. In my defense, you hadn't posted yet. Since you started posting, you've given me so many better reasons for voting you.

You're totally fucking scum. You seriously want me to vote Hoopla rather than you over a reason you think is "bullshit"? You talk about remembering me not "going after the weaker of the two options" and the only game we played together was that hideous abortion where me and Reck ended up yelling at each other for most of day 1 and then the site crashed?

Especially when THIS comes up. Because she said there were games plural (see post 118) that she played with GreyIce and the main one she can remember IS that one, and yet he straw man's the said remembered game and posts it saying as it's the ONLY game they ever played together, when she says games plural and that's the main one that sticks out in her mind as requested to "which game left an impression" by GreyIce. This post... Jesus Christ this post...

I thought it was pretty clear. She herself summarized it in a single sentence:

Vote: GreyICE

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

Tokens are bullshit

and

it's not fair I voted her for tokens when I should be voting Hoopla.

This was then compounded by the idea that I was "not the GreyICE she remembered at all" here:

You claimed to be voting me because I was likely to use tokens to make myself scum. That is untrue, it is pretty well known I favor town if any tokens were to be spent on me it would be in that direction as Nacho hinted at. Not only that but you said that Hoopla was more likely to push a token scum draw than myself yet your vote is on me. Why me over her? You're going after the weaker of the two options you listed for yourself and that's not the GreyICE I remember at all.

The thing is, our only game together (that I had honestly forgotten) was 4 years ago, died on day 2 to the 2 month site crash, and was pretty shit because me and Reckoner spent most of the time bitching at each other because we were both a lot less mature back then (yes, I take a part of the blame, but I claim only a part). So what's this about not being the GreyICE I remember? Especially when we have this:

I don't remember the exact games but I have played with you a long time ago and didn't really enjoy it. Our styles back then clashed way too much so I did my best to avoid you after that for my own sanity. Faraday's Metal gear I think the big one was, you had a blow up with Reck and I was hydring with Zach. The pair of you flooded the thread and I think we got vigg'ed as a result.

Liiiiike, basically? Lets review. I pushed her consistently as well as other people. Her take away was that I would... tunnel one read without pushing anyone else?

I mean in no way does the statement "that's not the GreyICE I remember" make sense. It makes negative sense. I've had plenty of good games, and quite a few bad games, and I honestly don't know what that one was because of Tigers (site crash) but seriously where the hell did that statement come from.

Aaanyway yeah, that's the fucking issues I had and some context. Feel like I've said it all before but w/e

Considering that one can take your early game like....

Spoiler:

Wow, I had forgotten that tiger eaten abortion of a game.

Why do I think you would spend tokens on your scum play? It's literally legendary. Believe it or not, I don't think that the tokens were spent "counterintuitively" very often. You'd hardly be the first returning player to take scum (mith himself did it in the first one).

Why you? I wanted to see how you'd respond. Hoopla just complains that everyone always finds her scummy, she'll pop up with some theory blather in a few days. I was hoping you'd be more interesting. And you were.

... No more tokens. Also enough theories

You claimed to be voting me because I was likely to use tokens to make myself scum. That is untrue, it is pretty well known I favor town if any tokens were to be spent on me it would be in that direction as Nacho hinted at. Not only that but you said that Hoopla was more likely to push a token scum draw than myself yet your vote is on me. Why me over her? You're going after the weaker of the two options you listed for yourself and that's not the GreyICE I remember at all.

You remember me? Interesting. What game was that, to give you such a strong impression?

As for recent play experience, I'll save your team the digging - I've been semi-retired for ages. I think the last game I played with Hoopla was like a year ago. My work schedule, moving, and a whole lot of shit has fucked my ability to commit to mafia.

Okey stop pure token talk. This is a common talking-about-mechanics and ignoring game kind of thing.

Interesting.

Why would you say "tokens" is bullshit? They give you an enormous ability to influence your role PM. The idea that we should simply ignore this seems ludicrous.

But even more than that, you've won today's lottery!

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

So my reason is shitty, but even if it wasn't, I should have voted Hoopla rather than you based on it?

Congratulations! You win a noose!

Sorry I'm lynching you for the wrong reasons, scumbag.

To be honest I never got your post. I think my vote is in the right place. you are scum reading him so hard right now because he MIGHT have put tokens as scum? this is not how this works...

None. We're actually all flying solo at the moment. Our QT is 3 pages long, and two of them are chatting with Zoraster.

No content yet.

Your "townhunting" theory and townblock are so incredibly bad that one cannot believe you came up with them unbiased.

Nightless games inevitably snowball. See Camden, or my setup I designed with Hito. At the moment we have 4 mislynches to town loss, but after a single scum lynch we get a spare mislynch. 5 mislynches is nice. Two scum die, and we get 6. That's really nice. 3, and we get 7 fucking mislynches, and if we manage that we should all quit the site.

So the scum are going to be looking to vote as a block. I smell protectionist scum who wish to work together.

Well you just said my whole theory was baised or something and its bad? I dont actually get it. This is a nightless game. scum needs 5 mislynches in a row to win. if you lynch a scum then u even add one more mislynch. typically if u have a town block of 3 and lynching 1-2 scum (considering ur town block was accurate) you just PoE your way to win). even if you have at least 1 town read that is one less scum target. if someone was clearly town he cant die without scum going there and making thier hands dirty. town blocs basically secures the town player's places where they belong.

Am I wrong?

I'm annoyed that I only have two townreads so far on page 5 (ZZZX and ABR) and it somehow feels like not much is going down. I wonder if this is the result of rust or the fact that half this thread is two guys or my general antsiness. Or a combination of all three.

(Bigger post coming up next after I finish rereading and thinking.)

We are missing EddieFenix, Hoopla, Sotty7, and Seraphim's post was such a non-entry that it actually might have removed information from the thread. He's my vote for coasting scum by the by.

But two of those were names I twigged as likely to token scum, alongside you and Nacho. Especially Hoopla, as tokening scum in this setup fits her profile.

well i will call this mini info post #1. but infact its all theory talk. also... where is the vote in this one?

Your ISO is a wasteland

A vast tract of sand and sun, devoid of life

Quantity<Quality, ABR has said more than you have.

Post4: No he... didnt. a single scum read doesnt help much in this kind of games frankly. he did do good stuff but nothing "amazing" yet.

You have 32 fucking posts for that

Stop spamming

Post3: Well technically "just that" included a third of the game. which is a pretty damn high number for that number of posts. noonetheless lets move on.

Hmmm,

Nacho

, why did interject regarding Grey's vote on Sotty before she'd posted?

Like you. You're interesting. You think.

Get metal sonic is like 14. And excited. Please chill.

post2: hmm.. so i think this is a null/town read on empire? or was it nacho? also random comment on metal

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

Post 1: okey

Le Early PbPA: Read from bot to top

tl;dr:

GreyIce:

-only kind of content posts are about tokens this token that.
-0 talk related to what happened in the thread. he just went in to say my spam is crap then never read the thread it seems
-has done a few scumtells.
-overall scummy

Not to mention you avoided even trying to point out ANY flaws in ZZZX's PbPA. Why not slam that as hard as you can?! Especially since it would BENEFIT you to slam that shit?!

I was about to slam your point of "fuckwit teammates" so deep into the ground where it would never see light again,

Then I saw that only Bulbazak was the only teammate that was not bad

So actually surprisingly it was remotely true.

Yeah, MS, read this. Where did Eddie interact with Silverwolf/Kagami sllot enough to conclude that the slot

should be part of the townblock?

Can you locate where that brilliant read came from?

It was at THIS post from Kagami, that Bulba informed me to bring her in at some point (note: SOME POINT: I need her here, reading, and interacting before I can get that going). If anything, Bulba's been in my ear as much as I've been in his for our games.

To wrap, to hit any reasons as to why I would take Sotty town is because my team is in my ear for one, especially when my hydra partner is telling me to find a way to wrangle these people in. For two, the back and forth between Sotty and GreyIce leaves a more sour taste in my mouth when you sit down and analyze the whole fucking thing, and it goes in the sour towards Grey Ice. I want people to ISO the two of them together and read. Three ???? Any more questions, do post.

[EddieFenix]

Define gold, MS?

[EddieFenix]

Don't forget, MS, about the entire vengeful game plan that was placed onto the table.

[EddieFenix]

Why Kagami scum, Nacho?

[EddieFenix]

Why Kagami scum, Nacho?

Did actually think Silverwolf sucked, Kagami came in and played the whole "oh I'm ok with lynching Sotty if we do the vengeful plan even though I doubt anyone will follow it" angle, and also has been parking vote on GreyICE for reasons that didn't have the same passion your vote did.

I read that, serephim. It's not compelling. I agree that sotty's play isn't amazing, but I've seen far worse from town being tunneled into the ground.

GI's posting is bizarrely inconsistent, which is ironic given he says the same of sotty. The best point he makes is the token thing.

He complains that sotty is willing to town block with players who haven't even posted against, pointing to a list that is probably just people sotty likes/has played with before. Later hoopla shows up later saying she'll sheep GI and ABR and just gamble that they're town. Hoopla gets a solid town for that because hoopla understands the need to town-block.

He should have had hoopla as town at 114, given his suspicion of sotty. Instead, there are sprinkles of "hoopla might be scum" in the token conversation and hoopla's opening is "deliberately uninteresting." He decides hoopla is town at 272 for whatever reason. I asked him about it, and apparently GI doesn't do pre-flip associations. Meanwhile, Eddie is revving a chainsaw in 258.

sotty is apparently pathetic and the worst liar ever. And is a legendary scum player in the next post.

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that. 277 is another ridiculous thing I don't think town-GI would say. "One of my townreads is scum" reads as "I'll have to 180 on one of my townreads once my scumreads are all dead."

And yes, a lot of this oddly revolves around a greyice-hoopla interaction. I think they're scum together. The early hoopla-scum sprinkles might indicate town-hoopla, but it looks like it was just distancing that grey decided not to bother with since he inexplicably has a townread from everyone.

So on to that townread. Why is greyICE town, seraphim?

I'm ok with a sotty lynch if we do the vengeful thing starting with day 1.

Then let's do it.

ICE is scum, sotty will request a venge on him. He will try to wiggle out. We'll lynch him and his team will be painfully obvious from the events of today.

You of all people should be happy about that, eddie.

If we're lynching sotty, I want greyICE dead tomorrow on a town-flip.

If we agree on this, I'll even bring the rope to the hanging tree. Yes, I get that ABR is a maverick, but I want some recognition that this should be a thing from everyone else.

Sadly, I don't actually believe anyone is going to let sotty dictate the lynch. I don't think that will happen even if we get to 6:4 (which is pretty much identical to 7:4 in terms of town-needed-to-be-dumb), because the greyICE-hoopla theory chat was probably just soft-distancing.

It legitimately is not a bad idea, though, and despite MS's statement to the contrary, mislynched town often have the best reads. That's usually why they're mislynched.

Kagami is suddenly absolutely convinced I'm scum, but willing to hang Sotty first, because he likes my points on tokens.

Nope, but nice try. Sotty is town, you are not. The reason I'm ok with lynching sotty is that there's otherwise zero chance in this gamestate of lynching you, the actual scum. For strange cosmic reasons, a lot of people think you're town and they simply can't all be partners. Once you're lynched, your team has no prayer. As you correctly stated, this setup is a snowball-fest.

And please point me to when I "suddenly" became convinced, because I had you as scum on my first read through.

GreyICE is scum.

Grey wants to lynch sotty. GreyICE pulls back when confronted with actual repercussions on a town-flip. That makes sotty 907% town.

Grey wants to townblock with hoopla, like, really wants to. For no reason. Then he's called on it. Now hoopla is maybe, kinda, not town, but definitely not someone he wants to lynch. Hoopla is a buddy.

Reread the game fresh with a greyice-hoopla scum perspective. It's magical how much things make sense.

Because I was calling him out on the sotty push. He thought it would be a freebie, but now people will re-evaluate him.

The key is "if they are unsure;" what aspect of greyICE's iso suggests that he's unsure?

Am I missing something here, Nacho?

edit:

Who's replacing out. Sotty is town and apart of our ideal town block (MS, Kagami, ZZZX, Zar, and Myself).

Why not wgeurts?

wgerurts is a read that Ank started as town, then flipped early on. I'll get a read from the group now that Mollie is apart of the team and catching up.

[EddieFenix]

ill be on for 10 minutes if there are any posts I should immeditly read/respond to please inform me here.

MS's 608

[EddieFenix]

And even if you don't want to lynch Kagami, why not Hoopla or Sotty?

I stated earlier that Hoopla would be someone I would lynch.

[EddieFenix]

unvote

Vote Hoopla

Following MS seeing as he's top town read. Watching GreyIce throw a temper tantrum like a 4 year old is hilarious.

[EddieFenix]

Unvote

Vote GreyIce

Why in gods name did I move my vote to begin with? MS, please get your ass on the GI wagon. He dodged on slamming ZZZX's PbPA when it would have helped his case against Sotty, he sits here and goes about gallivanting on about how my accusations against him are stupid, when anyone who has accusations thrown at them in this manor would slam them to hell and back, not just sit in the corner goin "they're stupid, this player is stupid". It's the "cram my fingers in my ears and scream as loud as I can to drown it out" defense. Jesus fucking Christ. You say I dodged, I didn't dodge. Instead of saying yes 4+ fucking times to your questions in 1 post, I say it once to answer ALL of those questions. Time for you to read up, buttercup.

edit:

shiow me. use quotes.

Ooooh, the liar is choosing to stand by his post! And accusing me of running away, because of course no piece of flailing is complete without the raw panic portion of tonight's entertainment!

In post 214 I clearly and succinctly respond to Sotty's "accusations" even though they're thinly disguised OMGUS.
In 308 I respond to Eddie's claim that my vote and case were "just salesmanship" (because apparently it's townier to just naked vote and not try to convince other townies?).
In 539 I respond to the questions about my Hoopla read, and how it progressed.
In 364 AND 373 I respond to your RIDICULOUS accusation that I would never say "scum caught for the wrong reasons" as town. Your only response was to ignore that and then CIRCLE AROUND AND CALL IT WEAK BECAUSE IT WAS A DIRECT RESPONSE TO YOU.

That's five different posts, ENTIRE POSTS that are direct responses to three different people.

You are a liar Kagami. You know what we do with liars?

Vote: Kagami

Referencing 214 again when this has been discussed and countered. Hell, MS has broken down your sotty argument for the class to see in very much large wall format.
308, if that's the best response you could have had to my claim... Well, I would expect better.
539, MS breaks it apart
364 and 373, you call that a defense/counter?

[EddieFenix]

unvote

Vote Hoopla

Alright ABR, based on the flip here, where next? Hoopla-Town flip gets us?? Hoopla scum flip gets us??

[EddieFenix]

@ABR and MS, think long term motivations.

[EddieFenix]

v/la til friday

[EddieFenix]

@ABR and MS, got Mollie on my team reading Nacho as town. I'll see if I can get an update on that read from her. Oiiiiii. Been a long couple of days with college. Comin back a bit this weekend full force for sure.

[EddieFenix]

@ABR and MS, got Mollie on my team reading Nacho as town. I'll see if I can get an update on that read from her. Oiiiiii. Been a long couple of days with college. Comin back a bit this weekend full force for sure.

GreyICE is on the table. You can enjoy to slam him

I will GLADLY string up GreyIce

[EddieFenix]

Scum:
Spoiler: Eddie
His early game play looks like he's just trying to appear pro-active, the posts however contain very little content and there is definitely no visible though process of read being formed. Most of his reads are fully unexplained, something that in my opinion is anti-town.
Then there's also how his scum reads were so convenient; Seraphim, me, Hoopla and ICE are all easy to push reads. Why would this this be scummy? Well it basically means that if a wagon appears to get enough traction to actually become a lynch on one of them he can jump on it using the reads as a statement, the fact he's barely explained them also makes it easy to get on a wagon. As he can't contradict himself he can just suddenly find reasons to explain his read whenever he sees fit.
Or he just never explains them and hops on a wagon, like, say hoopla.

@Wgrets
Hoopla I was willing to lynch based on NO content what so ever and scum hunting at all. I never even considered Hoopla as a town read, at all. Also, if you're calling Ice an "EASY" push, you're fucking insane.

EddieFenix

EddieFenix... on first pass, seems a hell of a lot like Kagami 2.0, with much weaker logic and a hell of a lot more sass.

Things I like:
-General confidence and shittalking

(Tis what I do)

-Bulba Capcom Crossover Theory (Where did this go? Why didn't you ever push me more?) (Need to talk to Bulba so he explains that one in depth when he's not fully fucked in the mouth with bullshit)
-Bulba and him being in sync posts

What I don't like is, again, the sitting on GreyICE all day and not really pursuing any alternatives which could possibly be scum.

(When I feel like I have scum in my sights, and you can find a couple hydra games with Bulba that I've done this, I. Don't. Let. Up. UNLESS, there's another one of my scum reads that I feel to move towards.)

And his case on GreyICE is not so great, it's actually really really horrible. All he does is say that GreyICE's Sotty case is horrible salesmanship, and then absolutely nothing at all until the Hoopla/GreyICE team theory and #602, which is where the bullshit comes to a head.

Grey's first point is that Eddie didn't actually interact with his townreads in any meaningful manner, which is suspicious because usually people interact with other people before they're worshipping them as town as shit.

Eddie's rebuttal is that it's fucking astonishing GreyICE believes that Eddie's team isn't in his ear, which actually isn't a rebuttal at all and instead is a really cool "oh team mafia is my excuse!!!" bit like Seraphim's #966 was.

(Yet further down from here you question Mollie's read...? Bulba was SHAKY town reading you. I need to talk to him and see if he'll give me a different shake on this. I'm also gonna request Mollie looks at it.)

Eddie's attack on Grey is the exact same as Sotty's was waaaay back on Page 1 (namely, that he should have voted Hoopla before Sotty), which is an old accusation that was already addressed in 119.

(Need more on this please)

Then he has an accusation that Grey called Sotty's scumgame "legendary" in response to a reference to a game where Sotty was town, so yeah that makes no fucking sense.

Then he accuses of Grey misrepping that he and Sotty have played multiple games together, even though I'm pretty sure Sotty didn't link any other games.

(You take one game played and then then word your posts by saying that said game was the ONLY game that you've ever played together, when the player in question says gameS plural?? Pardon me if I find that a bit... Not right in all honesty...)

And then calls him scum because he didn't rip apart ZZZX's PBPA for reasons that I don't really understand at all.

(How do you not? ZZZX took GI's posts from early game, pointed out that all but 1 of them were useless/pointless, and yet GI didn't slam him it? Ok...)

And that's it.
That's that entire case from that big #602 post, which is probably the worst case that I've read since I started reading this game. This makes sense from scum who is pushing a main scumread based on absolutely nothing until he actually tries to sit down and bullshit a case, but it doesn't make sense from town who is active and discussing his scumread with partners who are in his ear. It's also pretty great that this is the only piece of actual motivation or reasoning he even attempts to give: the rest of his reads is just straight rhetoric (see: Kagami read).

(Yet, MS can come in and pick apart my argument and understand it while expanding on it...? Alright.)

It's also a pretty strong tell that all mollie had to say is "Nacho's town" in our game: I've never really known her to read me without interacting with me and not being interested in interacting with me in game: maybe she can say that she doesn't want to step on Eddie's toes, but even mollie whose feeling out boundaries doesn't leave me cold and alone with that non-interaction.

(I don't fucking know, but I'm going to make sure I lock horns with her and quesiton as to WHY she's saying this at this point...)

I'm posting these now so I can take a break without being afraid of losing posts. I'm sorry for going overboard in Kagami read, just got excited I had a laptop again and had a bunch of overambitious ideas I had to curb so people actually read my shit.

Bold and in red.

Nacho: singer wanted me to ask you who do you think compromised from the GI wagon and why you think they did so on Hoopla instead of Kagami?

Eddie/Kagami both came over from the GI wagon on Hoopla instead of Kagami to save Kagami. They both came over at pretty much the same time, and they both used ABR asking them over to the wagon as an excuse to join it.

Wrong. Hoopla was FUCKING useless by all rights/counts, and GI was NOT getting traction for lynch and wasn't going to get lynched that day, no matter how bad I wanted and and still do. Best to utilize my vote in 1 of my 4 reads who I thought was scum. Was I wrong in the end on Hoopla being scum? Yes. I admit that. However, we can still bounce back.

Most of the reasoning behind my scumread of Eddie had to do with the way he jumped over GI to defend Sotty, who I am scumreading. I’m still not over that I just came out of a game with Eddie where he actually claimed to be a member of the scum faction being town (more awkwardly, a town member of the scum faction), so in part I’m still wary whether his play here was just bad or scum.

Town still won that game, I went over so many damn posts explaining what the hell my claim was till someone finally understood it. I know I fucked up there, here I can't exactly fuck up because vanilla townie doesn't get more basic than that.

@Sotty, scum reading Metal.... Are you high???

So basically... we're not getting a scum lynch today? Lets poll the scum and ask them how they're feeling about this!

Votecount 2.5

Seraphim (1) - Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - EddieFenix, Kagami, Seraphim

Yep, big bowl of popcorn and watching the action in their thread.

You're funny.

If nacho is scum we would need most of the town to lynch him, scum won't bus. This is exactly what's going on.


It is also fun to observe that you belong to the group of {not voting nacho} people!

Considering voting Nacho in all honesty.

[EddieFenix]

Ok, why?
Titus likes giving reasons, you must have some you can share.

I already mentioned. She thinks that Nacho is playing professor mafia, trying very hard to get towncred rather than scumhunt. Titus has been adamant Nacho is scum for the pas week. She thinks you're town and I should convince you to vote Nacho, but I won't do that. I will let you make up your own mind, and I will do nothing to help you vote anyone else that isn't Nacho.

I'm not happy about joining a wagon by purely being asked to, I want to be sure it's the right one. Why is it so hard to relay titus' thoughts and reasoning?
You say you will not help me to vote anyone but Nacho yet you don't even do that, you just tell me he's scum. I can agree with the resitance now coming from those not voting, eddie just only commeneted on things to do with him and ignored all current happenings for instance as well.

Eddie, what do you think of Nacho and Kagami?

ABR, you're not going to get a lower score for keeping your reason to yourself. It's more pro-town to show everyone that someone is definetley scum by showing all why. I don't know Nacho's playstyle, hence I want people like you to explain why your small amount of reasoning is actually true.

I've been reading the current happenings. Unless you want a wall the size of China in response to EVERYTHING, not every little thing needs a response. Mollie said that if she were in this game, she'd town read him and see from there. It might be my paranoia kicking in, but there's something eating me about Nacho. Going to trust Mollie for now at least until she comes back with something a bit more conclusive. Kagami, for me, is town. Right now, my want for the day is to see GI swing.

VOTE: Nacho
If she flips town we should lynch Kagami. If she flips scum Kagami is town.
Going to vote with the town bloc, any other lone pushes won't go anywhere.

Gambler's Fallacy?

Half, it's true that GreyICE didn't responds to that part. But that part consisted of pre-flip associatives with hoopla and statements which weren't backed up. Kagami really doesn't have a point here.

What? How?

Eddie

; let Mollie know singer acknowledges her Nacho townread, but would like to hear more thoughts from the reasoning behind it to see if she can understand where it’s coming from.

I'll let Mollie know.... Cause singer isn't the only one who's curious.

[EddieFenix]

@Nacho, she's not giving me the exacts because it's meta she says she has on you that she won't drop. I'll trust her on this.

[EddieFenix]

-shrug- Alright Nacho. She told me specifically she didn't want to out that meta that she has on you, and I'm asking her to point out the posts where that supposed signal is coming from for her because I'm willing to TRUST her in her read. But, if that's not a good enough, then go ahead and lynch me.

[EddieFenix]

No, that was weird as hell. He didn't vote all day, and would rather get lynched than vote for Nacho.

Because I'm trusting my team mate for being able to provide me with a solid read on a player they have a deep meta with. Pardon the fuck out of me for trusting in my team

[EddieFenix]

Vote GreyIce

Sonic, you and I both know he's scum. Move from Nacho, I'll get some kind of fucking co-operation from Mollie at some point for her to tell me whatever little fucking signal it is that she has to know what the fuck makes her say Nacho is town.

[EddieFenix]

And okay, me claiming to read mollie when she's not even in the game is pretty ridiculous, right?
Keep that in mind while you're reading Eddie's reaction to my push:

-shrug- Alright Nacho. She told me specifically she didn't want to out that meta that she has on you, and I'm asking her to point out the posts where that supposed signal is coming from for her because I'm willing to TRUST her in her read. But, if that's not a good enough, then go ahead and lynch me.

I just called his slot scum because of one thing his partner said.
And he rolled over and died.

If I was wrong, do you think he'd have this reaction? Or do you think he would call me an idiot for ridiculous convoluted reasoning, make fun of me for not knowing mollie as well as I think I do, etc.

But since he knows I'm right, and since he and Bulbazak and Mollie all know what tends to happen in this situation, he shuts up and takes the lynch.

I'm accepting of my lynch to show how much of a "giant dummy who can't rub two brain cells together" you really are, according to Mollie. Mollie also says, GUESS WHAT I AM THINKING NOW. She makes sure to point out that mislynching me would be just like mislynching her in a game where she can't interact with you, and ANYTIME you bring up the pirate conspiracy thing, she's gonna bring up you mislynched us in team mafia with her dying breaths.

[EddieFenix]

I've been reading the current happenings. Unless you want a wall the size of China in response to EVERYTHING, not every little thing needs a response. Mollie said that if she were in this game, she'd town read him and see from there. It might be my paranoia kicking in, but there's something eating me about Nacho. Going to trust Mollie for now at least until she comes back with something a bit more conclusive. Kagami, for me, is town. Right now, my want for the day is to see GI swing.

Eddie: Can you explain why Kagami is town for you?

I was in a skype call with Bulba and Ank during day 1. I read post 354 from Kagami, as SOON as I was done reading it, Bulba informed me that she was town and try to reach out to her. She's about the only other person (other than MS) who's also willing to call GI on his bullshit.

EddieFenix (3) - Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE

If this isn't a beautiful sight in this game I don't know what is.

I know a better sight, watching GreyIce swing from a tree. Your vote looks incredibly bad.

[EddieFenix]

It's time for our daily three sentences from Eddie. He reads Kagami town because I'm scum. It's funny because all of Kagami's reads are based on me being scum too.

These are not the thoughts of town deducing the game, they are a backfill logic. "X is town because Y is scum". Ya hah.

HEY EDDIE! You know how you claim that the one unshakable fact you know about the game is that I am scum? And you've been saying this since mid yesterday? I want to offer you a simple new strategy. Self-vote! It's blatantly obvious you're ineffective at pushing lynches. You've been whining for mine for two days, and the only person who gives a crap is MetalSonic. You're crap at pushing lynches, Eddie. Or your heart really isn't in it, because you know how my flip will go and you don't want it today.

So Eddie! Lets do it. You and me, Eddie. Throw down. We'll see which way the town swings, and when it's over? You'll be dead, and we'll have a nice red scum flip. But come on, Eddie, come to the show. I'll self-vote tomorrow if you're town, but you're so so not.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

You degenerate buffoon. If you think for ONE, macro-second I would EVER take you up on your bull fucking cock shine plan of "self voting," you're more delusional than Ted Cruz thinking he'll get the presidential nod for the republicans if you think I'm THAT stupid. I've got 3 votes on me with mine becoming the 4th and to TRUST you in self-voting WHEN I flip town? I've NEVER, IN MY MAFIA PLAYING LIFE, EVER self-voted. You've got some nerve even suggesting that plan.



Metal, Metal.... rofl. rofl.... Please, my sides.

[EddieFenix]

Lol. "Fake passion." Such delusion.

[EddieFenix]

MS, just hold out a bit longer on doing anything. I promise, the wait will be worth it.