White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Zachrulez]

VOTE: Llamarble

It has to be done.

[Zachrulez]

Hm... I can't tell which one is scummy; Coming right in the thread and immediately wanting to talk about tokens, or being reserved and not wanting to talk about tokens.

I feel like it's the latter. The people who don't want to talk about it might feel that way because we could reasonably figure it out if we delved into it took much.

And the WIFOM begins.

Fan-fucking-tastic.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: BluebloodedToffee

Not against wagoning Cheery Dog either, but as of this 5 seconds this post wins the scum sweepstakes.

[Zachrulez]

^ There's another one.

[Zachrulez]

67 - I just know you're gonna elaborate on this, Zach.

That sounds like a lot of hard work.

[Zachrulez]

That's a lot of words to say 'I have nothing to say right now'.

Nah, that would be you.

[Zachrulez]

If my reason for voting for BBT isn't obvious to anyone else, I can go ahead and explain it. But right now I'd rather just leave him squirming for the reason.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, I'm fine with burning elk at the stake as well.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: theelkspeaks

The early game by BBT still rubs me the wrong way, but will concede to Reg that the points are less strong if it's BBT's playstyle.

I'd also vote Cheery Dog, Aeronaut, or Ankamius today, though I don't really have a reason for Cheery Dog beyond the admission of taking a scum token giving him a higher than normal chance of drawing scum.

Would say to varying levels of confidence that Psyche, Oversoul, Regfan, and Llamarble are town. Hoping to be able to say the same about CES, but that will probably take a reasonable amount of time.

[Zachrulez]

I wasn't really paying attention to the TTH slot before, but I am now.

[Zachrulez]

Psyche what do you think about recent events?

[Zachrulez]

I wasn't really paying attention to the TTH slot before, but I am now.

your posting up to now is absolutely terrible

Whatever helps you get your hooks into the game I guess.

[Zachrulez]

190 - Zach, you should explain that BBT vote now.

Can you clarify why you think Elk is scum?

Would love an explanation for your town reads on Psyche and Oversoul too.

The great thing is that unexplained town reads are probably more frightening to scum than anything, especially if they're on point.

Regfan basically got my reasoning in 161. Basically coming in so hard with a theory stance in regards to being anti-token I feel allows you to work your way into the game without really taking any position beyond that particular theory stance. Theory over alignment reading tends to take the game in a bleh direction.

I get the impression we have very different play styles (If my initial read is wrong.)

At this point Elk's only real position in this game was to decry an early bandwagon as the game was coming out of the RVS stage. I see very little from him beyond that. 'This wagon is suspicious, I'm going to get to the bottom of this.' Followed by nothing. That's the kind of empty that scumbags come from.

My initial impression of the TTH/Antihero swap is TTH swapped out of a scum role. Antihero's swipe at me seems more aimed to try to discredit me than have any actual suspicion behind it, and that's only strengthening my feeling on the matter.

[Zachrulez]

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

[Zachrulez]

I doubt you would be satisfied with any explanation from me.

If my town reads are wrong and you have a compelling reason why they're wrong, I'm not exactly going to not rethink them just cause.

[Zachrulez]

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

clarifying stuff w/ zor at the moment. hold onto your britches.

you are talking out your ass when you speculate we swapped so i could take over a SCUM role (lol). ESPECIALLY on a team w/ etl, tth, and sthar8.

your reads are terrible and if you're town you need re-evaluation. badly.

Ok.

[Zachrulez]

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

clarifying stuff w/ zor at the moment. hold onto your britches.

you are talking out your ass when you speculate we swapped so i could take over a SCUM role (lol). ESPECIALLY on a team w/ etl, tth, and sthar8.

your reads are terrible and if you're town you need re-evaluation. badly.

Ok.

Oh hey I just realized this post existed.

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

VOTE: Psyche

fear not for tth will still be driving. i'm just doing the posting.

Urk.

[Zachrulez]

No we're not policy lynching someone because you don't like the way they play.

And yeah, I'm making a pretty hard statement on that because I don't think Llamarble is scum.

[Zachrulez]

It's part of the reason, yes. It's not the sole reason. P much where he's at is that he has a bunch of town reads and therefore is hunting via PoE (He doesn't have a strong scum-read and when he does he'll make it apparent) and there's nothing that he finds town of CDs himself so he's content to vote there. I know you're not a fan of meta but you're going to have to learn to accept that Llama taking statistics indicators of alignment such as tokens into account and hunting via PoE is how he plays, there's several of us that have brought this up too so at least trust me for now that Llamas not where you should be spending your time pushing. Also I wanted your read on Elk "bar the wagon speed" which I explained is a shitty reason to town-read him especially given his Psyche vote.

It's the base of his read. He wouldn't have a scum-read on CD had it not been for the initial token discussion. Also, voting scum via PoE on D1 is disgusting.

It's nothing to do with meta. Set-up spec (token spec) is scummy.

I gave you my read on Elk; I'm not town-reading him as you seem to be implying. His wagon was too quick, it's got people I am scum-reading on it so I want no part of it.

PoE is not scummy

Token spec is not scummy.

You should consider those two things and rethink your positions.

[Zachrulez]

Anyway where did elk go?

Was greeted to like 3 new pages today and elk isn't in any of them.

[Zachrulez]

You're making a hard statement against something that hasn't been suggested?

That's just fantastic.

In 311 you suggest lynching Llamarble for being a terrible scum hunter which is a policy based reason in my eyes.

[Zachrulez]

Ok.

[Zachrulez]

Because you don't have the votes and you probably never will.

[Zachrulez]

I really like winning, so I don't ignore game mechanics. If you want to be a scumhunting purist and ignore what the setup / roles tell you, fine, but it will be hard for you to get a really high town winrate. Also about half my posts, including the reads list you found so offensive, include behavioral reads with explanations. Other posts include behavioral reads I did not bother to explain at the time. I have also provided behavioral discussion of both Regfan and Cheery. Claiming I am basing my play solely on tokens / am not scumhunting is so obviously wrong it's hard to understand how you got there.

I also like winning which is where my hatred for set-up spec stems from.

I specifically pointed out the reads that I had problems with - Regfan, Zach and CD.

Basing your play

solely

on tokens is not what I said. I said your scum-read was based on token usage, you have built upon this since (only slightly), but that doesn't alter the fact it's based on token usage.

Tell me why CD is scum without using token-talk.

If CD isn't obv town or towning it up here, why shouldn't we lynch him? The mere fact that he used a scum token gives him a higher than random chance of having drawn scum. As far as day one lynches go, that's not the worst lynch choice in the world.

[Zachrulez]

It's clear to me if BBT is town we're going to have to drag him to the town win kicking and screaming.

So you don't think anything of the fact that Elk's doing like... nothing right now? No posts? Anything?

I think he's trying to see if the pressure on him will go away.

[Zachrulez]

I'm not opposed to wagoning him. But I can only vote one person at a time so... ya.

[Zachrulez]

Well I mean I think this game would be well served on just ignoring BBT for the most part unless he does something ridiculously scummy. I mean he's voting me right now for god sake. He clearly doesn't know what's going on.

[Zachrulez]

I know.

I know I'm not one of you great scum-hunting, legendary motherfuckers right?

What the fuck does BBT know? He isn't in our meta circle, let's ignore the shit out of him.

Whatever. People will listen eventually. They always do.

What is this bitterness? Do you actually even think I'm scum?

[Zachrulez]

Well I mean you think token discussion is scummy and that I'm scum probably for not fitting your model of what town play is supposed to be. Emphasis on YOUR model.

Why am I scum?

[Zachrulez]

I knew part of it was about you.

[Zachrulez]

What's wrong with the jump on Elk?

Also I'm not an analytical player. So don't hold your breath on me giving explanations for the things I do.

[Zachrulez]

That's all it takes to be town for you?

[Zachrulez]

Saying it won't make it true.

[Zachrulez]

Well if you don't think posting like that is town, then why do you want me to do that?

Like I could post something like Elk did there, very easily as scum.

You'd probably find my scum play town like, which is what is really amusing about this whole thing.

[Zachrulez]

You probably shouldn't hold up a post of someone you're not reading as town as an example if you don't want me to interpret it that way either.

[Zachrulez]

Like you sit here going MISREP MISREP MISREP without realizing that posts can be interpretted in multiple ways sometimes.

[Zachrulez]

Here let me post the logical thought process.

Specifically, the BBT/llama argument feels like 2 town players with contrasting opinions but both legitimately trying to get to the bottom of what the best way to lynch scum in this game is.

See that Zach? ^^^

Not difficult.

Give it a try.

I interpret that as being yeah, this is what I want from you Zach. Yeah man, this is what town does. Which promts this.

That's all it takes to be town for you?

You know because lack of posting like that is what's lead you to scum-read zach? So ahem.

Yeah I'm so misrepping up in here! WOOP WOOP!

... and the worst part is that I'm really starting to think you're town.

Elk's hop on to Zach suspicion was also opportunistically scummy.

[Zachrulez]

That's all it takes to be town for you?

Zach is scum.

Since this wasn't clear to everyone, I'm saying that Zach's "Oh, so this is all I have to do to sell you that I'm town" attitude sounds like a scum indignant that it was that easy to get town-read by BBT and he still wasn't being.

It's like I'm on another planet.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah I can't really think of aeronaut's claim of scum/town between me and BBT making any sense other than from scum trying to fake a stance.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aeronaut

[Zachrulez]

367 - Anti is town. TTH was my strongest town-read and I really, really, really don't see Anti replacing into a scum slot. However, his lurking is bothering me so it would be great if he could do something.

it's kinda beyond my control (rl stuff), but it'll pass soon

quick 'n dirty while i'm here:
looks like tth's scumreads were psyche, ika, and ces. psyche read i have no issue with. ika isn't in his usual scum lurkaderp mode so i may have an issue w/ that read. not sure haven't read his posts. ces' iso is snoozeworthy.

additionally, zack making a big deal about the swap is pretty smokescreen-y considering he's not really attempting to grasp our team dynamic or take our meta into consideration and just screaming "OMG THEREZ SWAPZ SCUMZMMMZMMZMZMZORZ" even if you did buy into tth being scum, there wasn't a need for a swap and hammering on that point repeatedly w/o actually trying to prove scum intent is actually kind of scummy.

i think bbt and llama are p townish. it looks like aero is a hot topic so i'll be looking into that too.

I don't think I have any playing experience with anyone other than you so expecting me to know the meta of your team is a bit unfair.

[Zachrulez]

Well, do you expect me to sit there as town and just get lynched?

no.

I expect scumhunting, and what I'm seeing instead is self preservation.

[Zachrulez]

Oversoul's comments regarding BBT in his wall don't really seem to connect with the read he presents.

That's not really leaving me with very warm feelings inside.

[Zachrulez]

Meh. TTH had reads and presence but scum can produce "this doesn't fit" easily enough. I get why CES 128 would annoy him but how does it look scummy? Overall I don't see a lot secondary towntells or a high level of engagement with the game.
All AH has done is say "I wouldn't replace into a scum slot" which has various problems and read TTH's ISO / comment on his opinions.

Would really appreciate somebody who has TTH / AH in their upper tier of towniness making sense of that for me.

I didn't really care for the "I wouldn't replace into a scum slot" coupled with the statement that he would basically be a conduit for TTH. If TTH coached Anti heavily enough, it would seem possible the dislike for scum could be overcome.

It's not the only possible reason for the swap, so I'll just let it go for now but just putting it out there that I don't like it.

Further I wish that Anti had more of a presence in this game so I could have things to actually try to read him off of other than that one point.

I like that Ankamius' scumhunting seems to mostly consist of one of his team mates having a theory that two obvtown people are scum together. I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least 2 scum in {Cheery Dog, Aeronaut, Ankamius}. The only tricksy decision now is who to lynch first since it would be such a waste if we mislynched D1.

Actually feel like this is a really good lynch slate to attempt to win the game outright with. (Spoiler, we should burn Aeronaut first.)

I also have lost interest in lynching elk for the forseeable future. If I haven't made it explicit enough already I don't really have any interest in lynching BBT anymore either.

[Zachrulez]

I don't think I have any playing experience with anyone other than you so expecting me to know the meta of your team is a bit unfair.

so you think it's unfair to substantiate the crux of your case...?

/kill me

It's less a case and more an icky feeling.

[Zachrulez]

Antihero has been prodded.

I don't like this at all. I think this is the type of behavior that Anti scum would do.

His play feels very much like he's just trying to scrape some posting by.

I don't care for the Aeronaut is an OK suspect but I hate the wagon stick. If you think we should be going in another direction, you should be pointing that out quite strongly at this point. Instead it just looks like anti is posturing for day 2.

[Zachrulez]

You're clearly here and able to respond, so you are clearly able to present an alternative course of action if you dislike where we're headed so much.

[Zachrulez]

Cheery Dog can die next.

Or even today. I don't care.

[Zachrulez]

What's wrong with those 4 posts Zach?
Can we get another Aero vote? They're not here, they're not going to be here, we're not actually doing anything right now. BBT / Elk would be my favorite votes to add.

I'm not really twitching off at the first 2 of the 4. It's more the final two.

VOTE: areonaut

more talk tommorow. lets move on with the game you gusy bore me. we can spec about nk tommorow

You want everyone to go through useless crap tomorrow? Unless

you're being weird with your kill

, what is will there be to speculate on?

"So and so was kilted because scum though they were a vanilla townie"

I mean the question is fine. The word choice in bold is really strange and curious though.

Wat
If BBT and Elk joined, this might become the towniest wagons I've ever been part of...

my only townread on the wagon is regfan

everyone else is firmly in the bleh territory

That seems odd when he's the one there I'm least confident in being town, but I think that's mostly based on bop as as I expect him to be more obvtown than he had been.

For those interested, I've dropped the town lean I had on aero, the content just isn't coming to keep out there, this means he is now in the null range, I'm still not sure it's the best lynch though.

This basically conveniently drops a town read to pave the way for a lynch to happen while expressing doubts about the lynch. I HATE these kind of wishy washy stances regarding a major bandwagon.

[Zachrulez]

I have more shit to say and I'm still at work, so I can't say it yet.

I will consider any hammer before I get to this game a scumclaim. No exceptions.

You've had plenty of time to say things while this wagon on Aero has been sitting at 5 votes.

[Zachrulez]

I have more shit to say and I'm still at work, so I can't say it yet.

I will consider any hammer before I get to this game a scumclaim. No exceptions.

You wouldn't be trying to set up suspicion for the inevitable IKA quickhammer would you?

UNVOTE:

You have till the end of tonight. What you have to say better be good.

I will be around in probably 4-5 hours, so be patient.

PEdit: that post took 5 minutes to write. If you think I have the time to read, then bring up all the the relevant stuff to refresh my memory, then give a response from that, then you're crazy.

Holding you to this.

Every intention of coming back to aeronaut wagon. If it managed to die I am going to be really annoyed.

[Zachrulez]

I'm more interested to see if he's actually going to produce this post he's saying is so important to make.

[Zachrulez]

I have more shit to say and I'm still at work, so I can't say it yet.

I will consider any hammer before I get to this game a scumclaim. No exceptions.

You've had plenty of time to say things while this wagon on Aero has been sitting at 5 votes.

I said what I wanted about the wagon. I'm mostly just not ready to end the day yet.

Meh

Prod received.

Yea, I've been basically of zero help here, and it's really not my fault but I probably should have replaced out when the shit hit the fan. Either way, I'll be able to catch up tomorrow, as that will be the first day I'm home, at a computer.

Lynch me, don't lynch me, whatever,

but I ask that you give me until tomorrow night so that I can give some actual reads so that I can be not ~completely~ useless for this game and my team.

If you don't want to do that, whatever. I have a few gut reads from skimming through, but I cant really make any sort of real progress right now.

For I'm getting the impression that Regfan specifically is probably scum. Ika is town.

Will look into more people.

We are more than a week into this game now. You shouldn't need another day to just now have actual reads.

On that note, what does that say about the reads you've given up to now?

VOTE: Aeronaut

Yeah I'm ready for this lynch.

[Zachrulez]

Bolded makes absolutely no sense to me, fact they come back to back make it even worse. TTH's reads pretty much consist of stating a scum read on Ika, Elk and Psyche in Post 81 and then adding CES to the list in Post 135 so if the players you're wanting lynched/not trusting include Ika/Elk/Psyche/CES 3/4 of them are not on the wagon ie. Shouldn't that make it a good wagon for you? I'll rephrase since I don't feel like I'm being clear enough; you not liking the wagon doesn't add up since there are several different wagon combinations you'd say the same (or worse) about and nearly none you'd be able to claim to like. You using the wagon-dynamic to avoid getting on really reaaaaaally looks like wanting to dodge lynching a partner here and has p much entirely killed any inkling of a town read I still had on you.

assumption: everyone is either a townread or a scumread

not so

tth is saying that aero's chances of actually flipping scum are pretty much random and i'm inclined to agree with that

Would like you to state more explicitly what you don't like about the aeronaut wagon. Regfan's on point that the majority of your scumreads are not on the wagon. So what's your stance here? That the wagon is town driven on town?

What are your reads of the people on the wagon?

You're coasting along here and it's really bad and you really need to start taking some harder stances.

[Zachrulez]

Bolded makes absolutely no sense to me, fact they come back to back make it even worse. TTH's reads pretty much consist of stating a scum read on Ika, Elk and Psyche in Post 81 and then adding CES to the list in Post 135 so if the players you're wanting lynched/not trusting include Ika/Elk/Psyche/CES 3/4 of them are not on the wagon ie. Shouldn't that make it a good wagon for you? I'll rephrase since I don't feel like I'm being clear enough; you not liking the wagon doesn't add up since there are several different wagon combinations you'd say the same (or worse) about and nearly none you'd be able to claim to like. You using the wagon-dynamic to avoid getting on really reaaaaaally looks like wanting to dodge lynching a partner here and has p much entirely killed any inkling of a town read I still had on you.

assumption: everyone is either a townread or a scumread

not so

tth is saying that aero's chances of actually flipping scum are pretty much random and i'm inclined to agree with that

Would like you to state more explicitly what you don't like about the aeronaut wagon. Regfan's on point that the majority of your scumreads are not on the wagon. So what's your stance here? That the wagon is town driven on town?

What are your reads of the people on the wagon?

You're coasting along here and it's really bad and you really need to start taking some harder stances.

What did antihero post after I made this post?

Oh that's right! Nothing!

VOTE: Antihero

What's up with that CES vote oversoul? It would take a lot to convince me that he's a good lynch today.

[Zachrulez]

I'm more inclined to lynch off wagon. Especially considering the kill. I'm just feeling with where the wagon stalled at scum were likely sitting back off the wagon knowing what the flip was going to be, and it's also a happy bonus that I find the people off the wagon generally more suspicious than those on.

What do you think about the wagon itself? Do you think my premise is sound?

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, Cheery Dog is another great lynch choice today.

[Zachrulez]

You're not even voting for him.

[Zachrulez]

You just want to hammer period. Let's be real. It's not going to matter who gets run up.

[Zachrulez]

I'm more inclined to lynch off wagon. Especially considering the kill. I'm just feeling with where the wagon stalled at scum were likely sitting back off the wagon knowing what the flip was going to be, and it's also a happy bonus that I find the people off the wagon generally more suspicious than those on.

That doesn't douns like normal scum behaviour to me, there would have to be at least one scum on the wagon already.

So what, are you saying you think more are on wagon? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.

[Zachrulez]

You just want to hammer period. Let's be real. It's not going to matter who gets run up.

not really? it was mostly for day 1 so we can move on. but you didnt answer my question, if i voted first would you vote too?

so zach why do you think llarm was killed?

I'm not particularly interested in lynching BBT. You've said he claimed scum more than once, but I don't see it.

I have no idea why Llamarble was killed. My theory of most of the scum being off wagon combines the factors of how scummy Aero looked, how the wagon formed, and where the nightkill was. (With the idea being that scum would tend to kill where they're not hiding.)

[Zachrulez]

You misread. I said you've mentioned a scum claim more than once.

[Zachrulez]

My posts probably wouldn't annoy you as much if you were actually town.

[Zachrulez]

last time i checked in w/ tth on this was before the weekend. since tth has been keeping up w/ the game more than me, i'm hashing some things out w/ her this morning.

zack, if you say something snide about coaching, i'm autovoting you. preemptively, i'm telling you right now to can it.

Well that would be a silly point because there really hasn't been any evidence of that.

It's not like I'm a monster.

[Zachrulez]

My posts probably wouldn't annoy you as much if you were actually town.

Anti, how caught up to date is TTH on this thread - also ask her to explain her Psyche scum read in more detail as well as her comments on his deadline play, really need to see some actual thought process here because think you attempting to continue pushing Psyche and using TTH as reasoning behind that comes across as fake and would like your own independent reads right now, don't care if they're not in depth just throw em out.

oh screw you both

what, are you mad that someone who's not even in the game's reads are better than both yours or the fact that someone who was barely paying attention figured your aero read yesterday was a loser?

And BBT thinks I'm the one with an ego problem here.

In fact let's delve into you slamming it in our faces that you figured out the aero read was a loser. Here are your posts regarding Aero on day 1.

Still hoping for Aero Ank Cheery team.

the only one of those three that MIGHT be ok is aero but that's mitigated by him being from EM player and it's a close call

i like tth's reads better can we do those?

Which is wishy washy actually. You eh the wagon, but make a comment that halfway encourages the wagon as well.

Aeronaut (5) - Zachrulez, Regfan, Llamarble, Cogito Ergo Sum, Oversoul

mmmmmmmmmmmm

wagon composition isn't anything to write home about either

You're voting psyche, you've pretty much always been voting for psyche. If you had an issue with the wagon composition, the time to have gone into more detail about that would have been in the above post.

Wat
If BBT and Elk joined, this might become the towniest wagons I've ever been part of...

my only townread on the wagon is regfan

everyone else is firmly in the bleh territory

This is vague. If you hated the wagon, you should have gone through it and found the reasoning on those that joined the wagon that you dislike.

i don't care for you not trying to distinguish between me being swamped and lurking
AND
acting like there's some kind of inconsistency here

i'm saying i'm not enthused about the aero wagon and everything i've said is consistent with that.

You may not have been enthused about the wagon, but you really didn't do much to try to stop it. Witness.

Bolded makes absolutely no sense to me, fact they come back to back make it even worse. TTH's reads pretty much consist of stating a scum read on Ika, Elk and Psyche in Post 81 and then adding CES to the list in Post 135 so if the players you're wanting lynched/not trusting include Ika/Elk/Psyche/CES 3/4 of them are not on the wagon ie. Shouldn't that make it a good wagon for you? I'll rephrase since I don't feel like I'm being clear enough; you not liking the wagon doesn't add up since there are several different wagon combinations you'd say the same (or worse) about and nearly none you'd be able to claim to like. You using the wagon-dynamic to avoid getting on really reaaaaaally looks like wanting to dodge lynching a partner here and has p much entirely killed any inkling of a town read I still had on you.

assumption: everyone is either a townread or a scumread

not so

tth is saying that aero's chances of actually flipping scum are pretty much random and i'm inclined to agree with that

Which again doesn't actively try to derail the wagon. Nothing you said in your opposition to the wagon made any statement toward the belief that you thought Aero was likely to flip town.

I mean if you truly thought the wagon was terrible and that it was a loser, then you'd have been willing to say he was town and that we shouldn't lynch him. You didn't do that. I know if I think a lynch is bad, I'll actively oppose it.

Anyway, other things I'm interested in.

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

clarifying stuff w/ zor at the moment. hold onto your britches.

you are talking out your ass when you speculate we swapped so i could take over a SCUM role (lol). ESPECIALLY on a team w/ etl, tth, and sthar8.

your reads are terrible and if you're town you need re-evaluation. badly.

I don't think I have any playing experience with anyone other than you so expecting me to know the meta of your team is a bit unfair.

so you think it's unfair to substantiate the crux of your case...?

/kill me

Assume I don't know a damn thing about your team's meta. (Because I really don't.) Explain to me in detail what I'm missing. Detail may or may not include commentary about how 'bad' you think I am at this game, but can not be the only thing that said explanation contains.

Now let's come off to that and answer other people.

Right, so Oversoul's town. theelkspeaks is probably town. I feel okay about Regfan. ika still looks slimy, but I'll wait to see if GIF replaces in and try to read him instead. CES is scum.

I have no idea why Llamarble was killed. My theory of most of the scum being off wagon combines the factors of how scummy Aero looked, how the wagon formed, and where the nightkill was. (With the idea being that scum would tend to kill where they're not hiding.)

Can you go into detail more here please?

It's the zachrulez (tm) wagon analyzer that consists of how I see things from my own point of view. It should be pretty easy to actually see that point of view. I think my position is pretty clear and that your question delves more into gaining activity by making a theory argument that won't actually make any real productive mark in the game.

We are more than a week into this game now. You shouldn't need another day to just now have actual reads.

I felt this post was a little strict, given Aero's posts about having to deal with a real life emergency and what not.
I don't know what it is, but Zach still hasn't hit me with the obvtown play.

He was V/LA from the 5th up until his lynch on the 9th. His V/LA was slated to last until the 11th. 6 days in a game with a 2 week deadline is pretty close to being inactive for half a day phase. I don't think my attacks were unfair there.

[Zachrulez]

Right, so Oversoul's town. theelkspeaks is probably town. I feel okay about Regfan. ika still looks slimy, but I'll wait to see if GIF replaces in and try to read him instead. CES is scum.

I have no idea why Llamarble was killed. My theory of most of the scum being off wagon combines the factors of how scummy Aero looked, how the wagon formed, and where the nightkill was. (With the idea being that scum would tend to kill where they're not hiding.)

Can you go into detail more here please?

Regfan, you must be able to see that 726 is a town-looking post.

Cheery Dog, Regfan is not getting lynched unless he keeps living without winning us the game. He's not close to being a lynch option yet.
What's the basis of that read anyway? Just that one (genuine-sounding) post?

Can we just lynch Ank today? He is so scummy.

Sotty actually thinks Anti's frustration looks town.

I think I'm doubting enough to UNVOTE:

I'm still in a place where I'd only really be voting Cheery Dog for taking a scum token, and if I'm actually going to be on his wagon would like another reason to actually lynch him.

Ok so...

Aeronaut

(7) - Regfan,

Llamarble

, Cogito Ergo Sum, Oversoul, Zachrulez, theelkspeaks, ika
ika (3) - Cheery Dog, BlueBloodedToffee, Ankamius
Psyche (1) - Antihero
theelkspeaks (1) -

Aeronaut

Not Voting (1) - Psyche

I'm having a really hard time seeing scum on that wagon. Got Regfan as town, could see CES as scum, but I'm not really getting the YOLO mafia feel here so I feel like I would be reaching on that. If Tammy is replacing Oversoul, then scratch anything I said about that slot, it's just town. Elk's maybe the flakiest one on the wagon and the actual wagon hop was blegh but again that might be reaching a little bit. Ika I'm not really interested in. Marquis has a town read on him and I would trust his ability to read ika far more than my own since I know pretty much nothing about ika except that the way he plays really grates at me. I tend to see ika as a popular easy lynch choice.

Cheery Dog: His play doesn't give me the overwhelming town read I'm looking for to think he should live deep into the game. Scum token raises his odds of being scum off the bat too. I remember he said a few things that looked pretty bad to me but he's never really been my top choice for a lynch. Still, I could be talked into lynching him pretty easily.

BlueBloodedToffee: Pretty much exclusively gunning for ika now. Hasn't really seemed to be looking elsewhere for scum lately. Not really feeling the town read as much now.

Ankamius: Think he could easily be scum, and I don't really know why he suspects who he does. Does he think Cheery Dog is town? Why? Why is Ika scum? Why is CES scum?

Psyche: Had a town feel from his early play and haven't really found him incredibly scummy, but I'm not really the authority on his meta and his actual content and posting frequency has really been lacking lately. He could have managed to get into my blindspot up until now the more I think about it.

Antihero: I think I've beaten this one to death. Stated issues regarding Aeronaut wagon still stand and want to see more content from him.

theelkspeaks: Might be giving too much credit to the things that caused me to lose interest in him on day 1. Insisting that BBT vs Ika can't be town vs town could be a pretty easy way to set them both up for a lynch if they are.

So yeah, I'm not thrilled with Anti's play but where he stands is in a lot of flux for me with a lot riding on what he does from that point on. If I were to take him off the table for a lynch for now that would leave a top three of something like Cheery/Ank/Psyche.

Probably most comfortable seeing Ank hang on that list.

VOTE: Ankamius

[Zachrulez]

Anti re; Post 726 you're missing what I'm saying completely, what I'm after is you actually posting reads and content, I had a town read on TTH before the switch and liked your reaction/response initially after the switch. My issue really is with your lack of reads and content and your explanation with the "wagon" dislike from yesterday (Albeit that's kind of less of an issue given that Aero flipped town and I was reading it as you trying to avoid bussing). So reads, please.

no, i don't think i am missing it. i think i hit the nail on the head. and zach's post confirmed it and can pretty much be summarized as "anti didn't elaborate" which, of course anti didn't elaborate because anti's doing a million other things and only came into this thread to plop whatever came into his head down. he also likes speaking in the third person because fuck it.

Assume I don't know a damn thing about your team's meta. (Because I really don't.) Explain to me in detail what I'm missing.

nonono, buddy you got the burden of proof in the wrong place. it's on your back, friendo. YOUR argument was that the swap was inherently scummy and i (and other ppl can vouch for this) that i'm far and away the worst scum player on that team so your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.
ball's in YOUR court about proving why the swap, in and of itself, is scummy. it's been there for a while but you want to pretend like it's mine.

I can't... 'prove' it.

You can argue why I'm wrong. Which would be a welcome change from your play up to this point.

[Zachrulez]

what's with the scrambling to call the mislynch yesterday really town driven?

i see zach doing it, i've seen psyche doing it, what gives?

I explained the combination of factors, but at the most basic level I don't really see scum on the wagon in my reads.

[Zachrulez]

I explained the combination of factors, but at the most basic level I don't really see scum on the wagon in my reads.

you know that a group of 7 people being all town (just... in general) is fantastically unlikely, right?

Now that's just appealing to probability.

[Zachrulez]

but at the most basic level I don't really see scum on the wagon in my reads.

revolutionary idea here.
those reads are wrong.

It'll take a lot to convince me they are.

[Zachrulez]

Being wrong about aeronaut doesn't make all my reads wrong.

I usually am right a pretty good amount of the time. Just not all the time.

[Zachrulez]

And I'm willing to believe there's one scum on the aero wagon, but I would have a hard time swallowing two.

[Zachrulez]

'mkay tth keeps telling me ika is gut scumread, but he's being his usual town troll mode instead of his scum lurky derp mode. i suppose you COULD make the argument that could be mitigated by team coaching, but none of the ppl on his team are scum heavy-hitters.

i think ika's town.

i think 3rd scum is either BBT or zach.

For someone who thinks he's so great you have a real massive loser of a read in having me as a scum read.

[Zachrulez]

Ok Antihero is town.

[Zachrulez]

For someone who thinks he's so great you have a real massive loser of a read in having me as a scum read.

you still haven't told me why you think swapping is scummy on a fundamental level.

There's been a lot of swaps since, so I guess it's just the trendy thing to do this year.

[Zachrulez]

IN FACT, in Post 217 you actually go out of your way to shoot down whatever point regfan made on aero at the time.

Ah, I was looking at CES in iso trying to find a problem with the progression, but I realize now after going over the last page again it's not his progression that's the problem but what he's claiming his progression was.

Hmmm.

Psyche really feels like scum lurking. (If he's so useless why isn't he replacing out and making posts to retain his wincon?)

[Zachrulez]

What are your thoughts on CES Zach?

Agree with you re: Psyche and would happily vote him.

CES might be scum, not sure how strongly I feel about how likely it is though. I want to look through his iso some more and think on it.

[Zachrulez]

I'm consulting my team on CES and the CES wagon. I'm really unsure on him and I'm hoping they can push me the right way.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Psyche for now.

[Zachrulez]

The Ika town read is his actually.

[Zachrulez]

You know that my meta preference to play town trumps anything you think you have on him right?

[Zachrulez]

If you want full context, he's been giving me bits and pieces. He hasn't really been actively following along with this game.

[Zachrulez]

If he'd said anything about you while I was scumreading you. I probably would have ignored it anyway. The progression of my read on you is all me.

[Zachrulez]

I really wish that Sotty was following this game. Not having her perspective sucks.

[Zachrulez]

I don't even need to claim tokens. I'm just going to outright say I'd have swapped out of a scum role by now.

[Zachrulez]

Well Marquis says he's going to read tonight. Jason kinda of ignored it, and I'll have to wait to see if Sotty even has time to look at my game tonight.

[Zachrulez]

Jason mentioned CES pushing for an Ank lynch in 746 without a vote followed by an actual vote in 751. (If memory serves me that came after my post.)

He feels it was testing the waters a bit.

I'm eh on that but I'm just being open about my team's thoughts here.

[Zachrulez]

Jason mentioned CES pushing for an Ank lynch in 746 without a vote followed by an actual vote in 751. (If memory serves me that came after my post.)

After my post where I voted for Ank that is.

[Zachrulez]

I don't even need to claim tokens. I'm just going to outright say I'd have swapped out of a scum role by now.

I can say exactly the same thing (and it's provable). Would you say that's a strong argument for me being town?

Should have said something sooner then.

As it is, if CES is lynched and flips scum, that's really going to change a lot of my assumptions about this game.

I actually unvoted you because my vote feels dirty next to CES' in light of observations presented recently.

[Zachrulez]

Felt dirty rather

[Zachrulez]

Ank, do you have playing experience with CES?

If so can you make any statement toward how accurately you would think CES town would be able to read you?

[Zachrulez]

Are you expecting him to have done stuff or not, these posts in a row have a ounce of contradiction.

...no, not really

in 893, i had assumed marquis wasn't keeping up at all, thus the call for action

zach revealed in 894 he had been keeping up with the game

in 895, i then responded with "what the fuck, how could he let you scumread me?" this is because marquis SHOULD be familiar enough w/ the distinction between my scum and town meta.

so... where's the reading comprehension breakdown?

I revealed that Marquis had observed he thought ika was town, and it wasn't breaking news in 894. I mentioned the read in 747 as well but you apparently didn't read that post. Marquis having bits and pieces of the game doesn't equate to him reading the game fully or being caught up in everything in the game.

I am only really depending on the ika read because I don't really have one of my own that I'd be confident in, but I can believe that Ika would be an easy mislynch if town.

[Zachrulez]

But seriously Anti, I think you really need to read some of my scum games. Then you can apologize for ever suspecting me here.

[Zachrulez]

And he confirmed what I already pretty much said. He only skimmed the game and commented on the easiest of reads.

He's been pretty swamped, so he hasn't been able to give me any of the input I asked for yet.

He's also not read anything for the past week or two or so. (Note your real contribution to the game only started recently.) The read progression on you at this point is all me, and some of Sotty making drive by observations.

[Zachrulez]

He just isoed you Anti. He got town read.

[Zachrulez]

So there ya go.

[Zachrulez]

Jason gave me an observation, but generally not well.

Hoping I get some more regarding that over the weekend.

[Zachrulez]

I think we should lynch Psyche's slot where it stands.

[Zachrulez]

I really want to play this game. I really do. I finally have a lot of everything figured out. I have my confidence!
And it always keeps looking as if I only need one more day before I'm free again. I don't feel like just throwing this chance away...

I guess we'll see you in a day or two when you fail to deliver content, again.

[Zachrulez]

Now that Sotty's been lynched in nightless, she's taking the opportunity to catch up on the game and work with me on reads. I would appreciate if a lynch didn't happen before she gets caught up.

[Zachrulez]

I think we should lynch Psyche's slot where it stands.

That would involve having it actually stand up first.

Eh, what is this post all about?

Here, also let me deliver a public service announcement from Sotty's read of this game as well...

So this is obviously coming from me as o assume people are waiting on it.

VOTE: llama

Way too much talk of how he's right and should be forehead and whatever, and I'm picking up absolutely zero of that from within his posts.

Pushing a practical policy lynch is not good enough to be deserving of the praise you're asking for by not actually finding scum.

What was this all about? You pushed this as a point but then after Regfan called you out on it, (In 272) you immediately dropped the vote? (In 294)

[Zachrulez]

It's also worth noting that Sotty is about halfway through the game and hasn't seen anything that makes her think CES is anything other than town.

[Zachrulez]

Sotty's stating a scumread on Cheery and when I try to glean through the substance of his posts, all I'm really finding that he pushes for a lynch on Ika which just seems like going with what seems to be the easiest player to lynch more so than lynching scum.

His other pushes seem to be reactionary, in response to Llama going after him (now dead.) CES going after him now making him possible scum, and Regfan being scum for the way he tried to push him.

The common theme seems to be that Cheery Dog is suspicious of people because they are suspicious of him.

I don't see a place where Cheery actually seems interested in figuring out any of these players.

[Zachrulez]

Where are Regfan and CES?

I was just sleeping.

I'll be the first to say just in case it's true: our scum team here is Cheery Dog, ika and Regfan

(despite the town token).

Vote: Cheery Dog

'marble, with me!

Note bolded. Where did this comment come from? Regfan had not yet posted claiming his use of town tokens.

[Zachrulez]

I was just looking through posts and found that this morning.

[Zachrulez]

Everything that's come up regarding that I've pretty much already said. We replaced Marquis' slot, and Jason hasn't really said much more on it, so I'm mostly depending on Sotty catching up there now.

[Zachrulez]

Page 17

[Zachrulez]

I know that, but I can't physically force her to read the game faster. It's not like I can't make a call on my own either, I would just prefer to have her caught up and have her reads to work with.

[Zachrulez]

Regfan, Sotty is curious about what your team's preferred games were.

[Zachrulez]

Sotty's shutting me down on CES. She's firm on him being town and honestly I think this game is starting to confuse me to the point where I'm trying to see things that aren't there now.

Hard scum read on Cheery Dog, and that's what I really needed, for someone to confidentely put Cheery Dog into one category or another.

It's time to put old yeller out of his misery.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Cheery Dog

[Zachrulez]

I'm also happy to play with CES again as its been awhile, I just think he drew scum

Divine Sottyvention says he's town.

Why do you think he's scum?

What do you think of the way Cheery wormed onto his wagon?

[Zachrulez]

Why CES?

Why not anybody else?

Because he's the leading wagon right now and I want to try to sort him better.

Iso Cheery Dog and then vote him.

Much better lynch.

[Zachrulez]

Zachrulez: Can you ask sorry to substantiate the CES town read?

She doesn't see anything from his play that points to him being scum. She's caught up to the game and gotten to the point about the Aeronaut progression and doesn't think it's a scumtell for CES.

It's more than enough for me to not want to lynch CES today.

[Zachrulez]

So basically, CES is town because nothing indicates scum. There's no actual town in his points either?

The absence of one would imply the other?

She's said his play lines up with CES town and can see his thought process from a town POV.

[Zachrulez]

She doesn't see anything from his play that points to him being scum. She's caught up to the game and gotten to the point about the Aeronaut progression and doesn't think it's a scumtell for CES.

that's not substantiation

that's a turd on a plate

You act like I just personally insulted your mother.

Do you think Cheery Dog is town? If so why? Does him being on the wagon not turn you off to the lynch in the least, in combination to how he slid his way right onto that wagon.

It's my turn to tell you I think you've got a loser here.

[Zachrulez]

I'm also happy to play with CES again as its been awhile, I just think he drew scum

Divine Sottyvention says he's town.

Why do you think he's scum?

What do you think of the way Cheery wormed onto his wagon?

He feels like he's giving the illusion of trying to figure out the game rather than figuring out the game. I also feel like he's playing up to regfan in a similar but more overt way as he did with empire in yoloville.

I've hated pretty much all of cheery dogs votes and reasons.

I think CES approached White flag pretty similarly to this actually.

I mean I've been looking at him so hard to the point where I'm probably trying to see things that aren't there, and I'm not really seeing a scum case on him.

[Zachrulez]

Further to the point, I'm not afraid of CES scum slipping through to the end of the game without getting lynched.

I am starting to worry that could happen with Cheery scum. This town keeps coming up with reasons not to lynch him and that in itself tells me that I'm probably on the right track.

[Zachrulez]

The complete lack of vote movement in this game at this point is just downright depressing.

I am not going to be available tomorrow morning, and afternoon availability is going to be dicey, please don't make it come down to me needing to make a last second switch.

[Zachrulez]

So very many V/LAs!

Zack's point about Cheery does seem to be pretty spot-on from a look. That definitely makes me feel worse about cheery than before.

I think Aneninen was mixing me up with someone else there - in Elements Mafia (where all games are opens or semi-opens with unlimited private communication between anyone who chooses to) setup spec and attempts to break the game are pretty common, as are attempts to coordinate power roles to "solve" the game. I've generally been one of the advocates for actually scumhunting, though occasionally used what spec there was to my advantage, and when I moderated a game there, I tried to push the trend towards less "breakable" games by introducing safeclaims to the meta. The mafia won that game and town complained that safeclaims were unfair afterwards *facepalm*, but ideas for making the game less breakable have persisted, so I'm happy with that.

As for my team now, Aronis read part of this game but is still going. He thinks my BBT town read might be wrong, and also suspects ika, with CES being null and anti/tammy/anka being town reads.

I agree that CES's iso is difficult to read; I'm still trying to sort him.

What are your thoughts on Cheery Dog? It feels like you're only considering CES as a lynch choice but I don't see where CD lands on your reads save that one vague post I quoted above.

[Zachrulez]

Catching-up episode cubic root 216

Spoiler:

(1) Antihero, 810 –

"THAT'S classic scum ika."

– Can you give me some details?

(2) Ika, 812 – Oh, this, including the readlist! (Re-formatted by me)

"i havent been really reading the game gif and i agree that CES is scum though –– other then that everything else is meh (im drunk also atm but soering and tired so im streamline mode) –– your town

(he meant Ankamius)[/i] –– anti prob town –– phyce could be scum –– reg might be town –– elk prob scum –– everyone else i dont really care to sort or even see if they exist right now"[/i] – I don't really get it. Where these GIF's reads? Why is BBT not on the list? What's that Elk-read coming out of ...nowhere?

(3) Tammy's 813 –

"I would have bet money on marble being the nightkill last night. "

But she got into this game later... Tammy, had you been reading this game frequently before you arrived?

(4) Meta-based reads from Regfan, 814. Both CES and BBT were hard townread by him here. I only mention it because I saw in his latest post that CES was weak-town and BBT undecided. I want to see his read progression in his later posts. Regfan, was it 1089?

(5) Tammy, 819 – where did this CES scumread come from?

(6) Ankamius, 824 and nearby – I know it's a minor thing in itself, but he wanted Regfan and Tammy to check CES's

ISO

how he speaks about him and CheeryDog. If he really wanted to get an answer, why didn't he link some posts about the topic? It looks as if he had tried to make it harder for them to answer his question. Aaand he answers his own question (if I'm reading the thread right) in 838, without references. Pigeon poop.

(7) CheeryDog, 841

"The fact Aero flipped town and have gut feelings about the chances of other people also flipping town regardless of them looking bad, I think we need to start looking at lynching the stronger players to find our scum."

– That doesn't make much sense. Especially if I read that part of the post further.

(8) Ika, 841

"i honeslty at this point want to lynch CES/CD and if the game isnt over from there (cus right now im gutting on 1/both bgin scums)"

– and this clearly contradicts (2) (where did the Elk read go?) and the whole interaction with BBT. (I've just had an intuition that he didn't push BBT because if BBT flipped town after his push, he would be in a very bad situation.)

(9) BBT, 872 to Ika:

"If you end up flipping scum in this game, I fucking promise you I will push for your lynch every single game we play."

– Because of these sentences I don't think BBT's scum. I think I've read similar sentences before when he was scumreading me. As for Tammy's reaction, 874, do you have the same experience, Tammy?

(10) ... [I wanted to post something that just came into my mind but I got IRL distracted and when I returned to the screen I forgot it. So, it's just a reminder for myself. The chat was opened about the post 878. Aaaaand here comes the kitty again!]

Intermission.
I know it's irrelevant but I think you're gonna love this story.
On my right, my Sweetheart is slumbering. On my left, our kitty. Both of them wants to get stroked. When my Sweetheart wants me to stroke her back, my kitty wants the same, obviously. And when my Sweetheart asks me for stroking her hair, the kitty meows and wants his head to get stroked too.
They're even mirroring each other as they're lying in a similar pose.

(11) And now the whole Ika/BBT interaction changed into something else! Am I too paranoid about this? After all, it seems to be stopped as soon as others started posting again.

(12) On these pages (36–37) the game seems to get stalled. Could this be the case of Aneninen#Unexpected_Gamestall? If so, Wgeurts may be right about CES and I may be wrong.

(13) On the other hand, CES's 945 –

"A friendly reminder to the people on the wagon that you're sharing it with this scumbag. One slot in my scumlist being town does make the rest more likely scum. That's how probability works. I'm not going to suddenly stop trusting my scumhunting process; being wrong occasionally is just part of the game."

– is scummy. It looks as if he had run out of new reasons. On the other hand, he's scumreading Ankamius and I too think he's scum. And his vote is there. Would scums bus in this Setup on Day2? Can someone answer this? And in 954 (answering Ika) – what if he's building up a mislynch here?

(14) Ika, naked vote for BBT in 968. It seems to be inorganic after his discussion with CES. (Could CES/Ika/Ankamius be scums together? If so, bussing is involved.) 972 is not a good reason. Because of the site rules I'm not allowed to explain, why. By the way, Ika, 987: if it disturbs you that this game is PR-less, why did you choose this game?

(15) Tammy, 984 – so, do you think that the whole Ika/BBT was a town-vs-town?

(I arrived at this point, but still need to see the posts I've missed so far.)

(16) BBT, 994 – Elk posted before that they needed to work on the team replacements. Do you think that Ika's 987 was AtE? I think it was simply contentless.

(17) CheeryDog, 1001 – did I missed something or is this that team-scumread on Regfan?

(18) Ankamius, 1005 – ...and I remember that I made a link-list like this in another game... as scum.

(19) Tammy, 1017 – if I assume that you ISO everyone instead of reading the pages, am I right?

(20) CheeryDog, 1018 – Wait-oh, weren't you scumreading Regfan? Did you just jump on the biggest wagon?

(21) Zach, 1029 – Good question! (Although it might have been a result of a token speculation somewhere else)

(22) CES, 1041 (and some related posts) – am I the only one who doesn't understand that CES and CheeryDog are talking about Cheery's Regfan-read while they're voting each other?

(23) Prods in 1048. Maybe I should check whether they were active elsewhere.

(24) Ankamius, 1065 –

"So basically, CES is town because nothing indicates scum."

– is that all about him?

At this point I'm very tired so I may miss things. If that happens, sorry in advance.

But I still want to finish catching up tonight

, because tomorrow I may have a busy day and the Deadline is getting close.

No, sorry, I'm too tired, it's 1:15 at night here. But I'm almost there and I hope that I don't miss a lot of things in the new posts now.

But, I remember this:
CES, you asked about the Ika. Because of the Site Rules I'm only allowed to say this: all the things I know about him (which is not much, I must admit) only strengthens my scumread.
As for his Day1-wagon. Because I think he's scum I'm more concerned about those late votes on the Aero-wagon, especially since he was on V/LA.

Short summary. I'll post a more detailed readlist tomorrow.

Ika and Ankamius seem to be the scummiest. I'd lynch any of them.
As for CES and CHeeryDog – I'm mentioning them because they're the major wagons now.
The scummiest thing about CES is his late-Day1 gameplay and there were other things too. But Wgeurts said that my read is bad on him.
I, myself, unsure about CheeryDog, although a couple of things about his recent play are scummy. (See above!)

Can someone summarize the case against CES and against CheeryDog for me?

Most preferably, Zach, BBT or Antihero – they look very town and they're on either of those wagons.

Before going to bed I'll ask Wgeurts in the Team Topic whether he has anything about Ika/Ankamius/CES/Cheery. Although, another team mate asked for his reads so I don't know whether he'll have time for me. (Or how many pages he's read so far.)

VOTE: Ika
Reasons above.

Your Ika vote is beyond useless. Only CES or Cheery Dog are truly viable this close to the deadline.

[Zachrulez]

I swear if this ends in a CES lynch and a town flip there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

[Zachrulez]

what's your issue w/ cheery dog's CES vote, zach?

It's based on a connection to Regfan and has allowed him to stay parked on CES without doing a damn thing to actually further any kind of case on Reg.

[Zachrulez]

Time to go back over stuff I skimmed with the phone yesterday.

With more information about Regfan having brought up wallflowers and then bussing that early in the game. The thing about trying to do associate tells is overkill there.
It by itself isn't much to go on, but it's mostly fake content as that type of reads just doesn't get there accurately that early in the game.

Now you're just trying to claim the post is suspicious regardless of what happened.

I'm putting out what Gamma gave me. I don't personally care about the post, hence why I didn't quote it earlier.

I think I'd be fine with a cheery dog lynch. I just caught that part about Regfan unvoting to get on cheery dogs good side. I can't imagine a world where scum!regfan would need to get on cheery dogs good side, and I don't believe he even believes that.

Don't all scum want to stop town from scumreading them? My wagon also hadn't exactly been picking up that much pace.

So gloaty.

I think it really is about time Cheery Dog got lynched. He hasn't made a credibly motivated vote all game and his last few posts are pretty much just mudslinging.

Is this seriously all you're going to chase my lynch on now?
If I'm acting mudslinging now, it's because YOU don't actually have any basis on your OWN reads still.

I don't actually know if I have a good read on you, because you're just making me mad with stupid stuff that means absolutely nothing towards finding out my alignment, but unlike my llama vote and removal, nothing has made me see you coming from a town perspective in regards to the meaningless stuff.

LOOK AT ME BEING A REASONABLE PLAYER REMOVING MY VOTE ON THE CONFIRMED TOWN PLAYER. THIS TOTALLY DEMONSTRATES THAT I HAVE A TOWN THOUGHT PROCESS.

Oh my god kill it now please.

[Zachrulez]

Because some of the things you have him as scum for aren't really things that apply to ces!scum.

He doesn't have "shat his pants" reactions as really the only thing ces!scum fears is chamber. Or at least that used to be true.

He also doesn't really give reads on players in the game other than who he's pushing or maybe defending.

He could be scum but not for the reasons your listing. It's just that people have a tendency to scum read ces for play style, and he can be a difficult read. I'm trying to figure out if the people scum reading him are doing it for play style.

I mean if anything ces is being more open with his thoughts than I've seen from him in some games.

From what I remember from YOLO way back when, you kind of figure out CES is scum when you can't really see him fitting into the game as town. That's how I remember working him out as scum there.

[Zachrulez]

So um, I completely forgot that HOOPLA is on Cheery's team.

She has NOTHING to say about this game? Really?

Come on now? How can this slot possibly be town?

[Zachrulez]

I'm mostly trying to switch around my playstyle so I can be more consistent since I generally have either really strong games where I obvtown with solid reads or I just manage to fuck up the game so hard that town falls into a rut.

I never actually said I'd replace out if I was scum. I meant understanding when I said resonate.

I don't even need to claim tokens. I'm just going to outright say I'd have swapped out of a scum role by now.

I can say exactly the same thing (and it's provable). Would you say that's a strong argument for me being town?

Um, you kinda did.

[Zachrulez]

Damn it Tammy you found it before I did.

[Zachrulez]

What point were you trying to make?

[Zachrulez]

Oh I see, me mentioning it is him keeping zach scum in the backpocket because me saying it is WIFOM!

Ok so Ank is this team mafia's nachomamma now.

[Zachrulez]

I think that was the only time I mentioned it.

[Zachrulez]

Do you understand the reference Ank?

[Zachrulez]

He made a hilarious case on me in the last white flag as scum that consisted of me selecting a scum role for WIFOM reasons.

You painting my self meta as scummy for WIFOM reasons just got me having flashbacks.

[quote="In post 1207, Ankamius"]uhhhhh I might have confused you for llamarble or someone else then, because I can't find any other instances either.

And yet you attacked me for it? I'm supposed to be thinking you're town with that kind of mindset?

[Zachrulez]

Let's fix that

He made a hilarious case on me in the last white flag as scum that consisted of me selecting a scum role for WIFOM reasons.

You painting my self meta as scummy for WIFOM reasons just got me having flashbacks.

uhhhhh I might have confused you for llamarble or someone else then, because I can't find any other instances either.

And yet you attacked me for it? I'm supposed to be thinking you're town with that kind of mindset?

[Zachrulez]

Ank - When did llamarble use that as an excuse though?

I've found this whole exchange fascinating and I'm back to thinking Ank is scum.

[Zachrulez]

Which further indicates CES is town.

Actually on the CES wagon, Anti is the only one I would be comfortable calling town.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah but that had nothing to do with my defense and he was claiming his play as obvtown in a way that was no way similar to the piece of self meta of mine that you were attacking.

[Zachrulez]

Tammy, Ank is scum. believe it.

[Zachrulez]

mollie doesn't think she can read CES even on a good day, thinks that CD is a player that is much better than he looks and just needs to be engaged, and thinks BBT is town right now (doesn't think the aggression is scum) although keeping an eye on him to see if his play deteriorates is advised.

Like right here is a rare mention Ank makes of Cheery where he relays a comment from Mollie about how Cheery needs to be engaged to play well.

So why is he not really making an effort to engage Cheery? Wouldn't that be a good way to read him?

[Zachrulez]

My brain is screaming MADE UP in response to all the stuff Ank is claiming his team is saying/has said.

[Zachrulez]

mollie doesn't think she can read CES even on a good day, thinks that CD is a player that is much better than he looks and just needs to be engaged, and thinks BBT is town right now (doesn't think the aggression is scum) although keeping an eye on him to see if his play deteriorates is advised.

Like right here is a rare mention Ank makes of Cheery where he relays a comment from Mollie about how Cheery needs to be engaged to play well.

So why is he not really making an effort to engage Cheery? Wouldn't that be a good way to read him?

I don't really need to sort Cheery when the entire situation around his wagon looks more like a scum directed mislynch than anything else.

Who are the scum directing his mislynch?

You have myself, Reg, and CES on the wagon, and Tammy showing interest but without a vote yet.

[Zachrulez]

I'd love... LOVE to flashwagon Ank right the fuck now actually.

But it's probably not realistic, and Cheery Dog is not a bad lynch option.

[Zachrulez]

CES + Regfan is the most likely combo. It makes sense with the day 1 tri-read thing they had going on and CES' posting about Aeronaut flipping town but still going along that list anyway. There's other possible combos but it doesn't feel consistent with the game.

PEdit: @Zachrulez

CES + Regfan is painfully unlikely. There's a (small) chance one is scum, but not both.

Tammy pretty much pointed out why earlier.

[Zachrulez]

now why would tammy be the NK ank?

Because she's widely townread and it doesn't dispel any of the tension on the game if she dies.

Is this real life?

[Zachrulez]

Tammy you should vote for Cheery because it will force those on the fence to actually take a stance without having to excuse of CES being more viable.

[Zachrulez]

Without having the excuse of CES being more viable.*

[Zachrulez]

Now I'm interested to see Elk and Anen's reactions

Now that their positions on CES vs Cheery actually matter.

[Zachrulez]

After speaking with my team about the game state tonight, I believe that all three of the major wagons up to this point (theelkspeaks, Psyche, and Cheery Dog) are on town.

This is worth quoting again. Mainly for the mention that Cheery is town.

[Zachrulez]

All she said so far is that she thinks ika is scum now. I asked for justification to post in here but haven't gotten a response yet.

Wisdom doesn't like Zachrulez in this exchange.

Holy shit you are scum.

Ika is so obviously town now it hurts.

[Zachrulez]

No way Wisdom genuinely believes I am scum here. NO WAY IN HELL.

[Zachrulez]

Also I didn't realize Wisdom was on your team.

Now I'm just confused?

[Zachrulez]

I'm pretty sure he has enough experience with me to know better.

[Zachrulez]

STAY TUNED FOLKS. THE CONCLUSION OF WHITE FLAG DAY 2 IS SET TO BE AN EXCITING ONE.

[Zachrulez]

Zach what games have you played with Wisdom? He only remembers playing with you in a marathon.

I have no idea actually. I've played over 80 games. I recognized the name instantly though.

So maybe that point sucks. That ONE point.

[Zachrulez]

But seriously, I would love to hear what he doesn't like about me here.

[Zachrulez]

Probably a meta tell. You don't even know WHAT it is... do you?

[Zachrulez]

That last post of mine was in response to ank on ika.

[Zachrulez]

Oh if you haven't played with wisdom, you modded him in the z-mafia micro that wisdom was scum in with red coyote. sooty was the doc and protected nacho night one and me night two in that game.

pedit: to zach

I know I've moderated at least one game he's played in before. I honestly can't say how familiar he is with me as a player.

Do you still think it should be impossible for him to believe you are scum?

You still haven't elaborated on why he thinks I'm scum.

I feel like he should be familiar with what kind of a player I am, but I can't prove it no.

[Zachrulez]

This is great.

[Zachrulez]

And it just got better!

[Zachrulez]

Still haven't elaborated on that scum read Wisdom apparently has of me.

[Zachrulez]

It looks like mollie's catching up now. She just told me to tell Zach that she's scumreading ika, not me.

... What?

[Zachrulez]

I guess we're not getting much more than wisdom is scumreading me.

[Zachrulez]

Now mollie's saying that ika might be town.

DAT super sekret tell!

[Zachrulez]

Also, since wisdom is talking to you right now that shouldn't prevent you from talking about his reads.

Wisdom and I are actually pretty synced, like I said before.

He agreed that you and anti were town.
He thought ika was likely town but not as sure; your posting to mollie looked fake.
He agreed that CES was scummy.
He likes BBT for town.
He agrees Anen is scum, mainly because of his elaborate catchup resulting in vague reads.

The Zach read came later during this whole thing.

I mainly asked him for reads on Anti/Ika/you though.

what about me looked town to him, and then what looked fake about my posting to mollie. Do you mean me pointing out that mollie was, in fact, not logged out, because that is easily backed up because oh look still green.

I'll get to this on day 3 if it's still relevant.

You mean after Tammy is dead according to who you think will be nightkilled?

[Zachrulez]

Ika I'm not going to point out the town tell I have for you. And if you're town, and my tell is correct, you shouldn't be claiming that I'm either bsing the town tell on you or mollie has the scum tell on you which is correct, which if I'm interpreting correctly is wtf because if you were town you shouldn't be questioning my town tell on you.

It makes even less sense to question the read as scum to be fair.

[Zachrulez]

Do you drink for top post or for Equinox getting top post?

I don't drink but I'm curious.

[Zachrulez]

Like I said, I don't drink... so that would be why I'm out of the loop on that.

[Zachrulez]

Confused by it, which I think is probably the point.

[Zachrulez]

This game has kept me up too long now.

Going to bed.

Should be back before deadline.

[Zachrulez]

So how much chicken are we going to play with the deadline?

[Zachrulez]

Also how did you come to the conclusion that scum would want to stay out of the Cheery vs Aero business while town would be more invested in it? I would expect scum to want to keep the status quo up and prevent complications from showing up to become either another possible wagon or increase the amount of info from the day.

There's like 3 basic problems here.

One is this.

Because my mind was a clusterfuck of being in my tunnel and adjusting my reads based on that entire engagement and I couldn't untangle it at the time.

Saying your mind is a clusterfuck doesn't change your basic thought process that you apparently feel scum was on both major wagons. It doesn't ring genuine to me.

Second problem is the fact that your first vote today is OFF WAGON.

Not to mention the third problem which isn't specific to you is that the kill was once again ON wagon. I'm finding it problematic to argue the majority of the scum team being on the lynch bandwagons when doing so narrows the field on that premise.

Also you reasoning why Tammy was going to die and then avoiding engagement of her at the end of the day saying you'd get to it if it was still relevant and then Tammy actually dying is like the cherry on top of the sundae.

VOTE: Ankamius

[Zachrulez]

Oh also the arguments against lynching Cheery, arguing that he was town, ect. while effectively sealing his fate by unvoting CES. You weren't just showing lack of conviction there, you were making the 'scum driven' mislynch happen.

[Zachrulez]

Saying your mind is a clusterfuck doesn't change your basic thought process that you apparently feel scum was on both major wagons. It doesn't ring genuine to me.

What major wagons? CES + Cheery Dog? When?

The fact that no one seemed to agree with it at all helped in making me less sure that it would actually happen.

Why do you think Tammy died last night?

I'm presuming the reason she died was because you shot her.

now why would tammy be the NK ank?

Because she's widely townread and it doesn't dispel any of the tension on the game if she dies.

[Zachrulez]

This part got eaten while making my post somehow.

Saying your mind is a clusterfuck doesn't change your basic thought process that you apparently feel scum was on both major wagons. It doesn't ring genuine to me.

What major wagons? CES + Cheery Dog? When?

The lynching wagons.

[Zachrulez]

Are you responding to me? If so what specific part are you asking about there?

[Zachrulez]

I'm referring to both lynch wagons.

mollie read marble as town early and switched it up later on. Do you want me to ask what her reasoning was? She never went into it in the thread.

But you just said that him proclaiming he was town and really good at this game was a significant reason why every single one of your teammates was scum reading him.

I was talking about Bulba and Eddie very early on in the game when we initially synced in our games. This was before mollie replaced into the game.

mollie doesn't think she can read CES even on a good day, thinks that CD is a player that is much better than he looks and just needs to be engaged, and thinks BBT is town right now (doesn't think the aggression is scum) although keeping an eye on him to see if his play deteriorates is advised.

Like right here is a rare mention Ank makes of Cheery where he relays a comment from Mollie about how Cheery needs to be engaged to play well.

So why is he not really making an effort to engage Cheery? Wouldn't that be a good way to read him?

I don't really need to sort Cheery when the entire situation around his wagon looks more like a scum directed mislynch than anything else.

CES + Regfan is the most likely combo. It makes sense with the day 1 tri-read thing they had going on and CES' posting about Aeronaut flipping town but still going along that list anyway. There's other possible combos but it doesn't feel consistent with the game.

PEdit: @Zachrulez

Here's his commentary on the Aero wagon

theelkspeaks: Bulbazak wants to know if #387 is paraphrased.

Ank, explain that CES scum read for me especially in light of your "reads reset" comment in Post 683.

I hatehatehate his comment about one slot in his scumlist being town making the rest more likely. Nothing about that post looked town to me.

Right, so Oversoul's town. theelkspeaks is probably town. I feel okay about Regfan. ika still looks slimy, but I'll wait to see if GIF replaces in and try to read him instead. CES is scum.

I have no idea why Llamarble was killed. My theory of most of the scum being off wagon combines the factors of how scummy Aero looked, how the wagon formed, and where the nightkill was. (With the idea being that scum would tend to kill where they're not hiding.)

Can you go into detail more here please?

It's the zachrulez (tm) wagon analyzer that consists of how I see things from my own point of view. It should be pretty easy to actually see that point of view. I think my position is pretty clear and that your question delves more into gaining activity by making a theory argument that won't actually make any real productive mark in the game.

Don't even try this crap. If it should be so easy to see this point of view, then it shouldn't be difficult to explain at all either.

If Aeronaut was so scummy, why would scum be off the wagon? Scum would just as easily have hopped on to get towncred.
How does the way the wagon formed indicate scum would be off the wagon? I can't think of a single situation where scum would specifically want to all be off of a town wagon unless they really needed that slot alive, which I strongly doubt is the case here.
Why would Llamarble dying indicate scum would be off the wagon? This one just mystifies me, since it more likely indicates that town were the ones that started the wagon... which means scum would want to hop on for towncred.

Ankamius: Think he could easily be scum, and I don't really know why he suspects who he does. Does he think Cheery Dog is town? Why? Why is Ika scum? Why is CES scum?

Looking through his iso I just found this as well.

Already answered CES-scum. I don't have a read on Cheery Dog right now. Ika's nullish scum; his posts today rub me the wrong way but not in a red-alert type of way.

Which waffles on having a read on Cheery at all, though as I pointed out in other quotes throughout the day, Ank frequently referred to Cheery as town, or referred to any pressure on him as being a likely mislynch target pushed by scum.

[Zachrulez]

My quoting is an absolute wreck on that last part

[Zachrulez]

There I think this fixes that last part.

Looking through his iso I just found this as well.

Ankamius: Think he could easily be scum, and I don't really know why he suspects who he does. Does he think Cheery Dog is town? Why? Why is Ika scum? Why is CES scum?

Already answered CES-scum. I don't have a read on Cheery Dog right now. Ika's nullish scum; his posts today rub me the wrong way but not in a red-alert type of way.

Which waffles on having a read on Cheery at all, though as I pointed out in other quotes throughout the day, Ank frequently referred to Cheery as town, or referred to any pressure on him as being a likely mislynch target pushed by scum.[/quote]

[Zachrulez]

Saying your mind is a clusterfuck doesn't change your basic thought process that you apparently feel scum was on both major wagons. It doesn't ring genuine to me.

What major wagons? CES + Cheery Dog? When?

The fact that no one seemed to agree with it at all helped in making me less sure that it would actually happen.

Why do you think Tammy died last night?

I'm presuming the reason she died was because you shot her.

now why would tammy be the NK ank?

Because she's widely townread and it doesn't dispel any of the tension on the game if she dies.

Thank you, smartass. Answer it seriously, please.

That would be a serious answer.

[Zachrulez]

Well, yeah I was leaning towards Cheery Dog being a counterwagon to scum. I was scumreading CES for most of the game up to that point.

I don't understand the relevance of thinking there would be scum on a town lynch wagon?

#753 was posted when there were two wagons of two players each; I'm pretty sure I never said he was a counterwagon to scum until he had a more sizable wagon on him. What's the context to that post that makes it scum?

The point is that you previously stated a different read on Cheery.

After speaking with my team about the game state tonight, I believe that all three of the major wagons up to this point (theelkspeaks, Psyche, and Cheery Dog) are on town.

This is worth quoting again. Mainly for the mention that Cheery is town.

Right there.

Also here.

ika: Scum, mainly for these two posts.

ok so does soemone have a town case for elk or can we like lynch that slot with fire now?

cus im talking with GIF and the others and they see no reason for it to be town

ok im proxing GIF here:

@Anka, gif had an epiphany and thinks elk could be town and to sort llam is to just have ffery into game here as well

pedit: get her talking now

The bolded was made in response to me bluntly saying that I wasn't going to vote for elk.

---

I'm really not liking CES for #475. Either he's town and just completely missed why I posted that theory somehow, or he's scum trying to spin it to his own advantage. I don't see town purposely seeing the whole picture and thinking that was the extent of my scumhunting.

Although I will say that the reason I only answered questions yesterday is because I was basically dead on my feet. I HAD reads, but never posted them in the thread.

I still like Psyche for scum; BBT is virtually conftown if he does indeed flip town, although I'm townreading the slot pretty hard anyway.

I keep ISOing Cheery Dog and I townread his overall tone every time I do so. Lynching him based on token usage is just not going to work as a case for me.

And then we go a while without you mentioning cheery at all.

I like Cheery Dog's 'push' on Zack on a surface level this day phase, but overall his day 2 play doesn't look proactive at all. Nullishscum so far.

Where you state a read on him.

Then 753 where you don't have one at all?

[Zachrulez]

Zach are you suggesting that I telegraphed what I would do that night and why when it was already clear my standing was rapidly decreasing?

I'm suggesting that yes.

It's pretty important to point out that I think that's the case because I already think you're scum, and that the theory itself doesn't LEAD to me thinking you're scum by itself.

Let's talk about your CES unvote though. What was your read on him when you unvoted, and what's your read on him now?

[Zachrulez]

Spoiler:

Well, yeah I was leaning towards Cheery Dog being a counterwagon to scum. I was scumreading CES for most of the game up to that point.

I don't understand the relevance of thinking there would be scum on a town lynch wagon?

#753 was posted when there were two wagons of two players each; I'm pretty sure I never said he was a counterwagon to scum until he had a more sizable wagon on him. What's the context to that post that makes it scum?

The point is that you previously stated a different read on Cheery.

After speaking with my team about the game state tonight, I believe that all three of the major wagons up to this point (theelkspeaks, Psyche, and Cheery Dog) are on town.

This is worth quoting again. Mainly for the mention that Cheery is town.

Right there.

Also here.

ika: Scum, mainly for these two posts.

ok so does soemone have a town case for elk or can we like lynch that slot with fire now?

cus im talking with GIF and the others and they see no reason for it to be town

ok im proxing GIF here:

@Anka, gif had an epiphany and thinks elk could be town and to sort llam is to just have ffery into game here as well

pedit: get her talking now

The bolded was made in response to me bluntly saying that I wasn't going to vote for elk.

---

I'm really not liking CES for #475. Either he's town and just completely missed why I posted that theory somehow, or he's scum trying to spin it to his own advantage. I don't see town purposely seeing the whole picture and thinking that was the extent of my scumhunting.

Although I will say that the reason I only answered questions yesterday is because I was basically dead on my feet. I HAD reads, but never posted them in the thread.

I still like Psyche for scum; BBT is virtually conftown if he does indeed flip town, although I'm townreading the slot pretty hard anyway.

I keep ISOing Cheery Dog and I townread his overall tone every time I do so. Lynching him based on token usage is just not going to work as a case for me.

And then we go a while without you mentioning cheery at all.

I like Cheery Dog's 'push' on Zack on a surface level this day phase, but overall his day 2 play doesn't look proactive at all. Nullishscum so far.

Where you state a read on him.

Then 753 where you don't have one at all?

uhhhhh

I'm pretty sure that was just a heavily disengaged part of the game for me and I was posting stuff as I thought of them.

I was looking back for any sign of read progression on cheery dog, and your progression doesn't look particularly natural to me.

[Zachrulez]

oh btw

VOTE: BBT

this is what we should be lynchign today.

im sheeping tammy and this is my first idea

... I'm not entirely opposed to that lynch actually. BBT has really become a non presence in this game.

[Zachrulez]

Zach are you suggesting that I telegraphed what I would do that night and why when it was already clear my standing was rapidly decreasing?

I'm suggesting that yes.

It's pretty important to point out that I think that's the case because I already think you're scum, and that the theory itself doesn't LEAD to me thinking you're scum by itself.

Let's talk about your CES unvote though. What was your read on him when you unvoted, and what's your read on him now?

Still stands. I don't like that I have to ask about this now and that it has to be explained AFTER day 2 instead of before it ended.

[Zachrulez]

Well to me your reads also seem pretty stationary and non changing, which I tend to think is more of a scum mindset because it's far easier to have reads in flux as town than it is to pretend to as scum.

[Zachrulez]

I'm assuming you still think Reg is scum too?

[Zachrulez]

I'm pretty sure there's no more than one scum in CES/Reg

That's what I mean by stationary reads that bother me. I'm not sure how you still arrive at that one.

[Zachrulez]

I'm not even saying that I think either is scum. Just that if there is scum in CES/Reg, it's one scum and no more.

If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.

[Zachrulez]

They're positions and stances are too similar.

If they were both scum, I would expect their positions in this game to be more contrasting.

[Zachrulez]

Their positions*

[Zachrulez]

I can see that. However, it's very important for scum not to get lynched in this set-up in particular.

Scum syncing up their reads makes much more sense to me to achieve this.

To some degree that would make sense. Like syncing up on a lynch candidate. But not to the point where your play gets close to mirroring your buddy.

[Zachrulez]

Not sure how much I like Elk the more I think about it. For all I said about how BBT has become a non presence, that's actually a lot more true of Elk.

Been writing Elk off as town but not sure I should be.

[Zachrulez]

I'm not even saying that I think either is scum. Just that if there is scum in CES/Reg, it's one scum and no more.

If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.

you had your shot. twice.

you blew it.

sheep me.

I'll think about it. I don't think it's a terrible vote.

[Zachrulez]

Ank, what's your read on me now?

Also want to know if Wisdom's had more to say on me.

[Zachrulez]

Oh right it's at 3 now.

UNVOTE:

[Zachrulez]

Hmm, I don't get Ankamius' unvote late D2.

Like, it doesn't make sense from either alignment. I initially thought that maybe he was scum with CES but he unvotes

after

CD becomes the leading wagon (which he wouldn't need to do to save his buddy from being lynched). Also, VCA aside, I don't see scum motivation in Ank's posting.

CES, what is the scum motivation behind Ank unvoting? I know you said townies want to influence the lynch at the end of the day; anything else? Because it makes no sense to me.

That's actually a good point.

Also that inaction is probably how Ank would have responded to that pressure rather than making baffling move after baffling move at the end of day 2.

Hmmm...

Lurking like a mofo in that situation probably would have been the preferable move as scum.

[Zachrulez]

Becoming more confident in Anen scum.

(5) Frankly, need I point out why I am an easy lynch in this game?

yes
yes you do
because, you know, remember the time you got lynched in musoka, jk9++, and c9++ even though you were scummy as all fuck in all those?
let's reminisce.

Frankly, are you scum or simply trolling around?
I've been talking about

this

game!
But okay, I'm walking you through it.
(1) Take a look at the playerlist of the whole Team Mafia. I'm not even in the Top50 experienced players!
(2) Before replacing in I hadn't heard about Team Mafia at all. (Nor the rules or whatsoever.) While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!
(3) Also, I replaced into a lurk-slot. I haven't got an idea what happened to Psycho and why he didn't do anything. (Here are some paraphrases from the Team Thread: "I don't quite understand whats going on", "grrrr mislynch", then "give me more time", "I don't wanna play"...)

This is so woe is me. Point 2 is AWFUL. Using the team mafia concept as an excuse, when white flag is as simple a game concept as you're ever going to get in mafia.

[Zachrulez]

VOTE: Aneninen

[Zachrulez]

Anen voting Ika at deadline and turning around and going after Ank today feels more planned to me than genuine scumhunting.

Plus everything else he's posting today that I want to burn with fire.

[Zachrulez]

I can't really elaborate much more on Zach than I have since most of it is the gutread on how he engaged me on day 2. Tammy and Regfan's posts were made to try to figure out what I was saying and decide what my alignment was based on that, while Zachrulez felt more like he was trying to stifle and push me into a corner without trying to figure me out.

If I said Tammy is

really good

at reading me, would that influence your gut read?

[Zachrulez]

What's your read on CES, Zach?

Still think town.

[Zachrulez]

does anyone else have this nagging feeling that regfan is scum right now whos doing jack shit cus nobody suspect him atm?

On the subject of Regfan.

Regfan, Sotty is curious about what your team's preferred games were.

This was asked for a reason. I don't think Regfan ever responded to it. Whether he missed it or pretended it didn't exist... who knows?

[Zachrulez]

I can easily imagine a scum hammering a townie before they post their detailed reads.

So ummm, what about Elk who voted on that wagon with minimal reasoning knowing that ika would hammer?

[Zachrulez]

Pretty much the whole process yesterday and feeling more sure of that read today. It would take a lot to convince me CES is scum.

Also feeling like Anen and Elk are both scum and trying to push an Ika counterwagon, and you're helping them.