White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Antihero]

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

VOTE: Psyche

fear not for tth will still be driving. i'm just doing the posting.

[Antihero]

I wasn't really paying attention to the TTH slot before, but I am now.

your posting up to now is absolutely terrible

[Antihero]

I'm going to

vote cheery

but it's only because I need to rethink stuff.

where's the first go-round of this "thinking" stuff?

[Antihero]

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

clarifying stuff w/ zor at the moment. hold onto your britches.

you are talking out your ass when you speculate we swapped so i could take over a SCUM role (lol). ESPECIALLY on a team w/ etl, tth, and sthar8.

your reads are terrible and if you're town you need re-evaluation. badly.

[Antihero]

we switched b/c tth needed to take the wheel in the game i was in

that's all the detail i can go into

[Antihero]

"urk" what?

[Antihero]

367 - Anti is town. TTH was my strongest town-read and I really, really, really don't see Anti replacing into a scum slot. However, his lurking is bothering me so it would be great if he could do something.

it's kinda beyond my control (rl stuff), but it'll pass soon

quick 'n dirty while i'm here:
looks like tth's scumreads were psyche, ika, and ces. psyche read i have no issue with. ika isn't in his usual scum lurkaderp mode so i may have an issue w/ that read. not sure haven't read his posts. ces' iso is snoozeworthy.

additionally, zack making a big deal about the swap is pretty smokescreen-y considering he's not really attempting to grasp our team dynamic or take our meta into consideration and just screaming "OMG THEREZ SWAPZ SCUMZMMMZMMZMZMZORZ" even if you did buy into tth being scum, there wasn't a need for a swap and hammering on that point repeatedly w/o actually trying to prove scum intent is actually kind of scummy.

i think bbt and llama are p townish. it looks like aero is a hot topic so i'll be looking into that too.

[Antihero]

Nacho thinks Aero + Cheery; not so much Ank (combined scum effort against me seems unlikely to him). He provided reassurances for Zachtown (#320 in particular shows the full confidence of never getting lynched hard for Zachscum to demonstrate) and liked the same CES post others have. Also pointed out some townish Psyche posts (groupings post shows thought process; doesn't seem like the type of thing scum would bother with).

tell nacho i think his reads suck

[Antihero]

ninja prod damn it

[Antihero]

nacho, you asshole

[Antihero]

also, my reads from that game were good so nyahnyahynahyyanhaysdljfaslkjdalkj

[Antihero]

I don't think I have any playing experience with anyone other than you so expecting me to know the meta of your team is a bit unfair.

so you think it's unfair to substantiate the crux of your case...?

/kill me

[Antihero]

Still hoping for Aero Ank Cheery team.

the only one of those three that MIGHT be ok is aero but that's mitigated by him being from EM player and it's a close call

i like tth's reads better can we do those?

[Antihero]

Aeronaut (5) - Zachrulez, Regfan, Llamarble, Cogito Ergo Sum, Oversoul

mmmmmmmmmmmm

wagon composition isn't anything to write home about either

[Antihero]

Wat
If BBT and Elk joined, this might become the towniest wagons I've ever been part of...

my only townread on the wagon is regfan

everyone else is firmly in the bleh territory

[Antihero]

i don't care for you not trying to distinguish between me being swamped and lurking
AND
acting like there's some kind of inconsistency here

i'm saying i'm not enthused about the aero wagon and everything i've said is consistent with that.

[Antihero]

i am

i like tth's reads better can we do those?

[Antihero]

Bolded makes absolutely no sense to me, fact they come back to back make it even worse. TTH's reads pretty much consist of stating a scum read on Ika, Elk and Psyche in Post 81 and then adding CES to the list in Post 135 so if the players you're wanting lynched/not trusting include Ika/Elk/Psyche/CES 3/4 of them are not on the wagon ie. Shouldn't that make it a good wagon for you? I'll rephrase since I don't feel like I'm being clear enough; you not liking the wagon doesn't add up since there are several different wagon combinations you'd say the same (or worse) about and nearly none you'd be able to claim to like. You using the wagon-dynamic to avoid getting on really reaaaaaally looks like wanting to dodge lynching a partner here and has p much entirely killed any inkling of a town read I still had on you.

assumption: everyone is either a townread or a scumread

not so

tth is saying that aero's chances of actually flipping scum are pretty much random and i'm inclined to agree with that

[Antihero]

What did antihero post after I made this post?

Oh that's right! Nothing!

VOTE: Antihero

What's up with that CES vote oversoul? It would take a lot to convince me that he's a good lynch today.

I DIDN'T POST AT ALL, BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO MAKE A POST IN THIS GAME AT ALL, FUCKING A EVERY SINGLE POST YOU MAKE IS ANNOYING AS ALL SHIT

VOTE: psyche

hey, whoever's on the team w/ tth's internet boyfriend AND whoever's on nacho's team, give me some back up here

consulting w/ tth for everyone else and full reads list and more details about psyche, but this is definitely still her top suspect and i'm going w/ it

[Antihero]

My posts probably wouldn't annoy you as much if you were actually town.

Anti, how caught up to date is TTH on this thread - also ask her to explain her Psyche scum read in more detail as well as her comments on his deadline play, really need to see some actual thought process here because think you attempting to continue pushing Psyche and using TTH as reasoning behind that comes across as fake and would like your own independent reads right now, don't care if they're not in depth just throw em out.

oh screw you both

what, are you mad that someone who's not even in the game's reads are better than both yours or the fact that someone who was barely paying attention figured your aero read yesterday was a loser?

[Antihero]

last time i checked in w/ tth on this was before the weekend. since tth has been keeping up w/ the game more than me, i'm hashing some things out w/ her this morning.

zack, if you say something snide about coaching, i'm autovoting you. preemptively, i'm telling you right now to can it.

[Antihero]

Anti re; Post 726 you're missing what I'm saying completely, what I'm after is you actually posting reads and content, I had a town read on TTH before the switch and liked your reaction/response initially after the switch. My issue really is with your lack of reads and content and your explanation with the "wagon" dislike from yesterday (Albeit that's kind of less of an issue given that Aero flipped town and I was reading it as you trying to avoid bussing). So reads, please.

no, i don't think i am missing it. i think i hit the nail on the head. and zach's post confirmed it and can pretty much be summarized as "anti didn't elaborate" which, of course anti didn't elaborate because anti's doing a million other things and only came into this thread to plop whatever came into his head down. he also likes speaking in the third person because fuck it.

Assume I don't know a damn thing about your team's meta. (Because I really don't.) Explain to me in detail what I'm missing.

nonono, buddy you got the burden of proof in the wrong place. it's on your back, friendo. YOUR argument was that the swap was inherently scummy and i (and other ppl can vouch for this) that i'm far and away the worst scum player on that team so your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.
ball's in YOUR court about proving why the swap, in and of itself, is scummy. it's been there for a while but you want to pretend like it's mine.

[Antihero]

what's with the scrambling to call the mislynch yesterday really town driven?

i see zach doing it, i've seen psyche doing it, what gives?

[Antihero]

who's on psyche's team?

[Antihero]

espeonage, t bone, and wgeurts....

hm... i actually can see them not really doing much

[Antihero]

i mean... if there's a narrative about reads that doesn't make sense here, it's psyche's. and it hasn't since the beginning of this goddamn game. it's not like he's just flat out not here (it looks like his mind is elsewhere day 2) but even on day 1, tth noticed the cracks in the system early on. there aren't any real scumreads really hashed out... anywhere in the iso. there was the whole "group" thing that nacho was townreading for some reason but that ended up being a dead end and it didn't even really make that much sense to begin with and it just kind of spiraled from there into an abyss of lurk.

also, not really buying the team interactions regarding the aero wagon. your "teammates" (notice, we don't hear the name of a specific member) told you to sheep because the wagon was all good in the neighborhood? convenient since it removes every single shred of responsibility for the vote from psyche and puts it on these shadowy mysterious "others" (the teammates who have no name and whoever was already on the aero wagon). where did the townread on all these come from? where did it go? no one knows.

[Antihero]

You can argue why I'm wrong. Which would be a welcome change from your play up to this point.

holy crap, are you confused here?

let's go to the MOST fundamental level.

why is swapping scummy?

[Antihero]

I explained the combination of factors, but at the most basic level I don't really see scum on the wagon in my reads.

you know that a group of 7 people being all town (just... in general) is fantastically unlikely, right?

[Antihero]

but at the most basic level I don't really see scum on the wagon in my reads.

revolutionary idea here.
those reads are wrong.

[Antihero]

but at the most basic level I don't really see scum on the wagon in my reads.

revolutionary idea here.
those reads are wrong.

It'll take a lot to convince me they are.

if the townflip didn't give enough of a shock to your system, there's absolutely nothing i can say that will override this extreme and baffling stubbornness

[Antihero]

I explained the combination of factors, but at the most basic level I don't really see scum on the wagon in my reads.

you know that a group of 7 people being all town (just... in general) is fantastically unlikely, right?

Now that's just appealing to probability.

no, it's appealing to reality

and not living in a fantasy land

[Antihero]

Being wrong about aeronaut doesn't make all my reads wrong.

I usually am right a pretty good amount of the time. Just not all the time.

And I'm willing to believe there's one scum on the aero wagon, but I would have a hard time swallowing two.

PROGRESS

[Antihero]

another scumread tth and i are syncing on is CES.

[Antihero]

'mkay tth keeps telling me ika is gut scumread, but he's being his usual town troll mode instead of his scum lurky derp mode. i suppose you COULD make the argument that could be mitigated by team coaching, but none of the ppl on his team are scum heavy-hitters.

i think ika's town.

i think 3rd scum is either BBT or zach.

[Antihero]

another scumread tth and i are syncing on is CES.

elaborating on this

there are a few things:
>Post 128, psyche's being "open" about something apparently doesn't float w/ cheery dog and the token. lol

>he's been HAMMERING on the same people over and over and over this game. wait for it... "but anti, you've been doing the same thing." yes, yes i have. however, i cannot boast 50 relatively chunky posts (so it's not like he just hasn't been here like i haven't). and the reasoning behind the rabid ankamius push is disappointingly anemic and reads on literally ANYONE else in the game just simply don't exist. the reasoning on cheery can pretty much be distilled to "he's more likely to be scum b/c of token" which is a really easy argument to shove and it's a really conservative move. same thing for ank. he's not an especially high risk push here, so it's really convenient that the "scumreads" fall on these two players. the third fell on the em player who already flipped town, so there's that too.

>his reaction to tth's initial accusation was a "i just shat my pants" reaction. Post 197. like the rest of the trendy crowd, he wanted to know why tth and i swapped, but he didn't bother to follow up on that train of thought. he just responded to tth's unexplained push with "OMG, how are people townreading her?" (shit his pants) and nothing else. why? because he wanted to gauge her credibility and wondered if she had the juice to actually pose a threat. what, is he going to say he was "sorting"? lol, no. that would've involved follow up and a stated read. neither of which are present in his iso

>the whole "i'm getting nk'd" routine is an old trick and it ain't foolin' me Post 608 especially given that he has no reason to be nk'd. it's overplayed.

[Antihero]

For someone who thinks he's so great you have a real massive loser of a read in having me as a scum read.

you still haven't told me why you think swapping is scummy on a fundamental level.

[Antihero]

honesly anti its prob about 95% me trolling and not giving a fuck and 5% of me and gif having a back and forth about his game with random snippets of my game

i thought gif was on psyche's team?

$%#%

[Antihero]

oh yeah... i'm fucking stupid i just looked that up when i was looking up your teammates....

jeez, i need more coffee

[Antihero]

i'm going to leave this here
VOTE: ces

[Antihero]

a good topic for your next post, reg: defend your CES townread.

[Antihero]

784 - Anti, I'm not even entertaining your scum read of me.

You don't think ika has lurked this game? I must have a different definition of lurking to everybody else.

None of ika's team are 'scum heavy hitters?' WTF is that shit, it's not like ika (or his team) would need to be a scum mastermind to play this game in the manner he has.

no

if you want a point of reference, go take a quick look at his ISO in drawn on arrival sometime.

THAT'S classic scum ika.

i'm telling you, this read is a loser but you keep beating the drum like it's something while neglecting a lot of other things that shouldn't. that's what has me concerned about you bbt.

[Antihero]

Gone into it a few times already, it's a very weak town read but it's based of finding the tone on how he's referencing his past town games and how he wants to improve on that via winning this one as genuine examples of what I'm talking about are in Post 49, Post 384 and Post 494. I also liked his request of getting a feel for everyones scum competencies towards Empire in Post 147 and then towards Cadb in Post 164 and again in Post 383. His reads and thoughts mirrored mine for majority of the day (With the main exception being his Ank read) which I find to be a hard town tell for scum to fake convincingly.

null null null null null null null null

and more null

"mirroring my thoughts" is an unreliable towntell and depends on your reads being accurate and it's trap you seem to have fallen in. one that you should've snapped out of as soon as aero flipped town.

[Antihero]

The main thing was just his lack of scumhunting. It is still the #1 scum tell for a reason. The SvT thing also felt a bit like scum getting his hand caught in the cookie jar (in a way that was consistent with the previous point).

But I was suspicious of Aero well before I became suspicious of Ank. I wanted to keep Day 1 going, keeping Regfan and' marble alive, until I felt there was a clear path to victory and the Anksuspicion made me feel that there was. There just wasn't that much to say about Aero late D1 because he wasn't posting.

weak.

also, as bbt pointed out, this is constructing an alternate history that's not borne out by the posting itself

[Antihero]

yeah, you're putting lipstick on the pig that is your aero push now.

bbt, why aren't you voting ces now?

[Antihero]

IN FACT, in Post 217 you actually go out of your way to shoot down whatever point regfan made on aero at the time.

[Antihero]

Because there are people not doing anything that need to do things.

voting pscyhe isn't forcing him to do things

voting his buddy on the other hand.... that could make things interesting for him

[Antihero]

dude if you wanted a policy lynch, you had your chance. that ship has sailed.

[Antihero]

also, i still don't get your issue w/ ika

[Antihero]

2 more votes to scumflip

[Antihero]

Oh that's not four hours before I'm caught up, it's four hours until my defense.

good luck

i'm going to start calling you dr. tammy

[Antihero]

wait a second, you're on marquis' team and he hasn't said a word about this game yet.

you grab his ear and give it a twist.

[Antihero]

marquis is keeping up w/ the game....????????????

...

red flags are starting to go up

[Antihero]

he let you scumread me for ... like... a second?

[Antihero]

Mine?

[Antihero]

You know that my meta preference to play town trumps anything you think you have on him right?

unless you're claiming tokens, this means jack shit

If you want full context, he's been giving me bits and pieces. He hasn't really been actively following along with this game.

If he'd said anything about you while I was scumreading you. I probably would have ignored it anyway. The progression of my read on you is all me.

...

alright, how did the CES consult go?

[Antihero]

Are you expecting him to have done stuff or not, these posts in a row have a ounce of contradiction.

...no, not really

in 893, i had assumed marquis wasn't keeping up at all, thus the call for action

zach revealed in 894 he had been keeping up with the game

in 895, i then responded with "what the fuck, how could he let you scumread me?" this is because marquis SHOULD be familiar enough w/ the distinction between my scum and town meta.

so... where's the reading comprehension breakdown?

[Antihero]

equinox
v/la until monday

[Antihero]

back , what did i miss?

[Antihero]

It's also worth noting that Sotty is about halfway through the game and hasn't seen anything that makes her think CES is anything other than town.

oh you've got to be fucking kidding me

[Antihero]

Antihero I still want to know your read on Tammy. I'm assuming you're townreading ika?

you assume correctly, and i'm townreading tammy. oversoul was a decent townread, i also very much doubt tammy would replace into a scum slot

[Antihero]

keep goin' w/ your catchup anen

/letting stuff sink in, will come back later

[Antihero]

oh, what? this is horseshit.

[Antihero]

She doesn't see anything from his play that points to him being scum. She's caught up to the game and gotten to the point about the Aeronaut progression and doesn't think it's a scumtell for CES.

that's not substantiation

that's a turd on a plate

[Antihero]

oh cool, anen's scum

[Antihero]

look at the reads

May be town: Zach, BBT, Regfan (?), TheElkSpeaks (???)
No idea: Antihero, CheeryDog
May be scum: Oversoul, Ankamius, Ika, Cogito Ergo Sum (?)

shit soup

[Antihero]

I swear if this ends in a CES lynch and a town flip there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

bring it

there's still nothing town from CES. the wagon on CES are the SAME NAMES that formed the core of the aero wagon. check it.

what's the thing about doing the same thing, expecting a different result, and insanity?

[Antihero]

what's your issue w/ cheery dog's CES vote, zach?

[Antihero]

another scumread tth and i are syncing on is CES.

elaborating on this

there are a few things:
>Post 128, psyche's being "open" about something apparently doesn't float w/ cheery dog and the token. lol

>he's been HAMMERING on the same people over and over and over this game. wait for it... "but anti, you've been doing the same thing." yes, yes i have. however, i cannot boast 50 relatively chunky posts (so it's not like he just hasn't been here like i haven't). and the reasoning behind the rabid ankamius push is disappointingly anemic and reads on literally ANYONE else in the game just simply don't exist. the reasoning on cheery can pretty much be distilled to "he's more likely to be scum b/c of token" which is a really easy argument to shove and it's a really conservative move. same thing for ank. he's not an especially high risk push here, so it's really convenient that the "scumreads" fall on these two players. the third fell on the em player who already flipped town, so there's that too.

>his reaction to tth's initial accusation was a "i just shat my pants" reaction. Post 197. like the rest of the trendy crowd, he wanted to know why tth and i swapped, but he didn't bother to follow up on that train of thought. he just responded to tth's unexplained push with "OMG, how are people townreading her?" (shit his pants) and nothing else. why? because he wanted to gauge her credibility and wondered if she had the juice to actually pose a threat. what, is he going to say he was "sorting"? lol, no. that would've involved follow up and a stated read. neither of which are present in his iso

>the whole "i'm getting nk'd" routine is an old trick and it ain't foolin' me Post 608 especially given that he has no reason to be nk'd. it's overplayed.

i'm going to repost this, say that since then we still haven't seen a legit read on anyone in the game from CES yet, and remind everyone that TTH and i didn't botch the day 1 lynch.

[Antihero]

i think once during a marathon game

why does it matter?

[Antihero]

so why was your first instinct that ces was scum?

[Antihero]

'mkay, so what's your issue w/ cheery dog?

[Antihero]

VOTE: cheery dog

see ya'll after the weekend

[Antihero]

by the way, this is a psa that anen's still scum

[Antihero]

Antihero – Unsorted? Lean Town??? I'm not sold on his obv-town-ness at all. His posting style looks like the same as I know, but he did just the same as Ankamius: posted his scumread on me because of my catch-up (...which was about halfway at that moment or so!!!) without giving any other reasons or trying to interact me at all!!! I've been involved in a town-vs-town fight with Antihero before, but in that case, he asked questions, made arguments, etc. ...in his "Antihero-way". But here, nothing similar has happened. He might be another player who looks for an easy lynch.

>well, it's not like i was scumreading your slot before or anything. nope.
>"interaction" is the latest meaningless buzzword on MS that i hope dies a fiery death really soon.
>look. look at all the "easy" lynches i got my way on so far, anen.

VOTE: aneninen

lynch it.

[Antihero]

I'm not even saying that I think either is scum. Just that if there is scum in CES/Reg, it's one scum and no more.

If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.

you had your shot. twice.

you blew it.

sheep me.

[Antihero]

(5) Frankly, need I point out why I am an easy lynch in this game?

yes

yes you do

because, you know, remember the time you got lynched in musoka, jk9++, and c9++ even though you were scummy as all fuck in all those?

let's reminisce.

[Antihero]

oh look, it's an ankamius wagon, the latest loser

[Antihero]

(1) "Interaction" as a buzzword? La wow, you're right! Who the f-ck needs interactions at all? Let's post scumreads without talking to the player we have a scumread on!

i get this was supposed to be sarcastic.

but yes.

this.

but here, since we're taking a jog down memory lane, let's revisit everything tth and i said about psyche

gasp

The exchange between you and BBT at the top of page 2 (from about Post 32 to Post 41) was all kinds of awkward on your end. Screaming about being left out and then asking for reasons on ika doesn't quite gel. The comment implying that ika is lynchbait in Post 38 doesn't

quite

fit the context given that nobody is seriously talking about lynching ika. The attack on BBT is subpar even given the relatively low standards of the early game.

in our exchange
you seemed guarded
and not really interested in figuring me out

Funny, that's exactly what I think about you.

I have a light scum read on ika from general game dynamics.
I also have a light scum read on elk, mostly for blanket criticizing the ika wagon but not calling out anyone in particular.

TTH; Can you explain what you're referring to with "general game dynamics" in Post 81 for me please.

I was mostly referring to elk's white knighting of the ika wagon and Psyche's early game questioning of it. Since the set up itself encourages scum to defend each other, I'm treating awkward defense as a bit of a scumtell though I do recognize it could be scum white knighting for town cred thus the "light" read.

ika's empty prod for content in Post 108 doesn't help either.

i mean... if there's a narrative about reads that doesn't make sense here, it's psyche's. and it hasn't since the beginning of this goddamn game. it's not like he's just flat out not here (it looks like his mind is elsewhere day 2) but even on day 1, tth noticed the cracks in the system early on. there aren't any real scumreads really hashed out... anywhere in the iso. there was the whole "group" thing that nacho was townreading for some reason but that ended up being a dead end and it didn't even really make that much sense to begin with and it just kind of spiraled from there into an abyss of lurk.

also, not really buying the team interactions regarding the aero wagon. your "teammates" (notice, we don't hear the name of a specific member) told you to sheep because the wagon was all good in the neighborhood? convenient since it removes every single shred of responsibility for the vote from psyche and puts it on these shadowy mysterious "others" (the teammates who have no name and whoever was already on the aero wagon). where did the townread on all these come from? where did it go? no one knows.

all of this is still valid, bee tee dubbbbbbs

[Antihero]

What about it makes it "clearly scum driven"?

the fact that the SAME FUCKING PEOPLE ARE DRIVING ALL THESE PUSHES THAT KEEP FLIPPING TOWN

[Antihero]

Frankly, are you scum or simply trolling around?
I've been talking about this game!
But okay, I'm walking you through it.
(1) Take a look at the playerlist of the whole Team Mafia. I'm not even in the Top50 experienced players!
(2) Before replacing in I hadn't heard about Team Mafia at all. (Nor the rules or whatsoever.) While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!
(3) Also, I replaced into a lurk-slot. I haven't got an idea what happened to Psycho and why he didn't do anything. (Here are some paraphrases from the Team Thread: "I don't quite understand whats going on", "grrrr mislynch", then "give me more time", "I don't wanna play"...)

Now, add these things together. What do you get? An easy mislynch.

oh my god you are NOT a newb and you replaced into a SCUMMY slot, not a lurker slot

and don't even fucking PRETEND that you're scumreading me at this point

[Antihero]

While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!

what's to not understand?

you're playing a MAFIA game. that means there's an INFORMED MINORITY against an UNINFORMED MAJORITY. it's the DAY PHASE. that means you VOTE who to LYNCH.

is any of this

ringin' a bell?

[Antihero]

and the "reads" are made-up horseshit because most of the townreads were consensus townreads not many ppl were going to dispute, the scumreads were bleh-worthy at best, and the TWO LEADING WAGONS we were choosing between JUST SO HAPPENED to fall in this nebulous gray area shrouded in the effluvia of uncertainty that JUST COULDN'T BE LIFTED FUCKING EVER EVEN THOUGH THE ENTIRE THREAD WAS BEATING THE TOPIC TO DEATH

[Antihero]

tell wgeurts to lay off the weed and the nationalistic stereotypes

also, kindly ask him to explain why CES is town

[Antihero]

blah

v/la until monday

[Antihero]

I'm not even saying that I think either is scum. Just that if there is scum in CES/Reg, it's one scum and no more.

If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.

you had your shot. twice.

you blew it.

sheep me.

This is one of anti's worst posts. Also his rage in general doesn't seem town-ish, but I've seen players on both sides of the aisle rage, so I can't say for sure.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this

third day THIRD TIME NOW MY WAGON'S BEEN COCKBLOCK COUNTERWAGONED WITH A LOSER AND YOU'RE DRIVING IT, SCUMLORD

[Antihero]

HOLY FUCK

THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA

HERE'S SCUM IKA:

(credit to tth for links)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60729
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60599
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60340

THIS IS NOT ANY OF THOSE

OBVIOUSLY

[Antihero]

Can we not do meta.

How about you provide reasoning based on this game for why ika isn't scum?

for IKA, yes we can

he's THAT predictable

Spoiler:

let's see....

cute and fluffy: 125 pages, 26 ika posts
doa: 136 pages, 27 ika posts
pyp: 64 pages, 9 ika posts

this game: 65 pages, 163 ika posts

ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER
ONE OF THESE THINGS JUST DOESN'T BELONG
CAN YA' TELL ME WHICH THING IS
NOT
LIKE
THE
OTHER

by the time that i finish this song?

[Antihero]

wait a second, forgot about spring waltz

48 pages, 29 ika posts

holy shit, is that a record for him?

[Antihero]

he posts a lot

seriously, he doesn't do that as scum. it's almost a trust tell at this point.

[Antihero]

If you can show me ika is town this game, not based on meta, I'll join the Anen wagon because it's town as fuck.

can you show me something other than quote stripe-y sniping that actually makes a compelling case for ika being scum (that doesn't revolve around "ika's a troll" because i already knew that)

[Antihero]

– first of all, I must point out something. In 1435 I told that I would post more about Ika a couple of days later. Noone has asked anything about that. How is it possible?

– I won't repeat everything I wrote in my catch-up posts. I only elaborate one thing, his interactions with BBT. It has been going on throughout the whole game, but as posted in (11) of my last catch-up, it suddenly stopped there with no conclusions. I had assumed they're faking (in my 4th catch-up, 1108, (8).) Also, mind the (2) in my last catch-up. BBT was not on the list! According BBT's Day3 I strongly think that the whole Ika/BBT fight is a big fake. None of them have been in a real danger of lynch so far...

– By the way, chatchup 5/(6) is a thing why I doubt Wgeurts's scumread on Zach.

– the most important thing why I wanted to wait with my read is a meta-thing. This game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61136 finished and Ika was the SK there! I was checking that game every now and then (after all, that was the first case ever when my Setup was played)... and meanwhile I realized that it could be useful for me to sort out Ika. His style was the same there as it is here! (I'd been thinking that he'd been scum there for a while but of course I couldn't be sure before the game ended.) Also, something more about Ika. It's a parallel site activity so I'm not allowed to give any details, but his parallel activity doesn't add up.

– Wgeurts also pointed out that lol-hammering is a thing that scums may do (as for Ika's Day1), although I'm not sure whether I were allowed to tell the reference now. Also, he voted noone apart from the hammer on Day1. He left the CES wagon because it was not moving but joined the CD wagon eagerly. (The in-between vote parking is a thing that we interpret in a different way.)

1) OH NO WOE IS YOU ANEN

2) simple fact checking tells you this isn't even true. he's named bbt consistently as scum and voted him several times throughout the course of the game. when you go to ika's ISO and type in BBT, here's what my scroll bar looks like

Spoiler:

that doesn't look like the matter was dropped with no conclusion. this point is shit.

3) yeahyeahyeah

4) because we all know sk meta is the same thing as single faction scum meta. holy shit. this is layers and layers of cherry-picked wrong.
SK'S THE ONE THAT'S INFORMED OF HIS TEAMMATES, RIGHT ANEN?

5) oh my god... lolhammering isn't and will never be a scum tell for ika. IKA IS NOTORIOUS FOR LOL HAMMERING AS EITHER ALIGNMENT. IT'S AN INSIDE JOKE FOR ANYONE WHO'S PLAYED WITH HIM

THIS IKA CASE IS LIQUID SHIT

[Antihero]

Anti, you disappoint me.

I have stated multiple times why I think ika is scum.

should be easy to link me to then

[Antihero]

so ika's productivity profile doesn't fit what YOU think it should be, bbt?

is that it?

[Antihero]

@Anti - In Post 1472 you stated that scum were the constant pushers of the wagons that flipped town (ie. that it was "scum driven"), the largest pushers of Aero were myself and Llama and the largest pushers of CD were myself and CES; last read you stated on me was a town-read so stating that the wagons were bad and scum driven doesn't add up here. You're going to have to explain the disconnect for me since it doesn't read like genuine scumhunting*.

you can quit the little jabs and you can also go screw yourself since EVERY push you've made has flipped town now. is that what "genuine scumhunting" is doing for you?

usually, that's not what it does for me when i'm town.

you're scum, regfan.

there, i said it.

happy?

[Antihero]

You're the 2nd counterwagon which has been heavily pushed by the same two guys that pushed the previous counter wagon to anen, with anen setting up a push for BBT.

I don't think that points to Anen town...

oh my god

THANK YOU

[Antihero]

@Anti - In Post 1472 you stated that scum were the constant pushers of the wagons that flipped town (ie. that it was "scum driven"), the largest pushers of Aero were myself and Llama and the largest pushers of CD were myself and CES; last read you stated on me was a town-read so stating that the wagons were bad and scum driven doesn't add up here. You're going to have to explain the disconnect for me since it doesn't read like genuine scumhunting*.

you can quit the little jabs and you can also go screw yourself since EVERY push you've made has flipped town now. is that what "genuine scumhunting" is doing for you?

usually, that's not what it does for me when i'm town.

you're scum, regfan.

there, i said it.

happy?

also, "last i had you" was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on day 1, so you might wanna' check the expiration date on that read, bud

[Antihero]

it's reg/ces/anen

[Antihero]

also, "last i had you" was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on day 1, so you might wanna' check the expiration date on that read, bud

This is EXACTLY my point though; you stating you had me as town, then changing to stating the wagons were led by scum without actually stating that you're reading me as scum reads as you attempting to soft-state/push a FoS on me without actually coming out and saying it. THAT's what I don't like about it.

YOU'RE SCUM
YOU'RE SCUM
YOU'RE SCUM
YOU'RE SCUMYOU'RE SCUM
YOU'RE SCUMYOU'RE SCUM
YOU'RE SCUMYOU'RE SCUM
YOU'RE SCUMYOU'RE SCUM
YOU'RE SCUM

THERE, loud enough for ya'?

[Antihero]

your walls notwithstanding, your reads have produced exactly NOTHING of value this game and IT HAS SHOWN IN THE FLIPS

[Antihero]

ok, if that's how it's gonna' be.

VOTE: regfan

ika, zach, this is a call to arms

[Antihero]

your walls notwithstanding, your reads have produced exactly NOTHING of value this game and IT HAS SHOWN IN THE FLIPS

This is complete bullshit. I stand by my town-reads on Ika and Zach, I'll eat a hat if they're scum. I don't see a world where either of them are. I still think CES is town, as annoying as it is I still think you're town. I'd just rather make 100% fucking sure on two you since we've got time and I'd rather not mslynch again here.

no, it's not complete bullshit and "townreads" are cheap

ika's been town on "no shit, sherlock" levels for a while now and so has zach, i didn't need anyone to tell me that

[Antihero]

educational experience for everyone.

go double iso tammy and llamamarble and control+f "regfan"

you'll see some interesting things.

[Antihero]

And seriously it'll take you 10 fucking seconds. So please for the love of god answer the question; if you had a scum-read on me before why not state it?

i was mainly focusing my tunneling efforts on the psyche slot b/c that scum flip would be sweet vindication. now that you've pissed me off you can party with me though.

[Antihero]

well, no. llama kept wanting to "remove all doubt" from his read on you and then we got this gem.

The biggest problem I had with Oversoul early is that he wasn't really doing the work; even if you don't like his content much he is at least putting some effort into the game now. I don't subscribe to 'effort is a null tell.' It is at the very least a good sign for him. You're right that I need to read it more closely as soon as possible though.

This is the post where I go into the things that could go wrong so we keep them in mind.
It will be pretty difficult to convince me that any of BBT Elk (and probably Zach) are scum.

#1 The biggest problem we could have right now is if CES and/or Regfan are scum. Regfan finding CES town for "reclaiming my glory days" comments seems strange to me; if there is ONE statement I could easily fake as scum it's the "here's what I was hoping to do as town" statement: "please let me do my thing; I really want to play a spectacular town game here to start a new streak of crushing town wins and contend for a paragon repeat." Regfan and CES can both play very well as scum; even if it's not Regfan's favorite he will certainly at least provide reads / reasons / expected content (I would expect him to townread me on cue there as either alignment). I wish I had more secondary towntells from Regfan. Regfan's primary targets so far (Elk / Aero) are both people I would see as good targets if I were scum and they were town. Regfan + Cheery or Ank and Psyche or TTH are believable, or CES with Regfan / lurkers. Regfan's treatment of AH is also worrisome (happy to townread him while everyone else is but aware he's not doing anything). I have a hard time believing this game won't be an easy town win if CES + Regfan + me are all town and all agree, so please please don't give total control to Regfan / CES if we haven't lynched scum by D3 and BBT / me eat the first 2 NKs.

#2 The fact that ika / Psyche are doing nothing but getting totally ignored sucks for town and could cause problems down the road (scum can lynch them easily or if they're scum they may manage to coast further). Psyche, ika, AH, Aero, Cheery - Whichever of you are town need to get in here and do things. We MUST lynch scum early or else half our townleaders will be dead and the other half will be untrustworthy (or trusted scumz with lynch-control). If you do nothing D1, you make it harder to lynch scum D1 and those bad scenarios become much more likely. I think this game is decided before D3 starts so if you want to win, you should play now. Are we making a mistake lynching Aeronaut today? Is Ankamius town or is he a buddy Regfan is protecting? Are Regfan and / or CES just agreeing with me and voting whichever of my scumreads are town? Am I as obviously town as I say I am (correct answer: yes)? Is there actual substance behind all the weird AH townreads? Why is everyone content to table ika for later; is he just always worthless to town? Are Oversoul's walls good? Who was the scum voting for Elk? Is the Aero wagon an all-town wagon? There are so many interesting questions in this game - wtf is the point of you being here if you're not going to try to figure the game out?

I guess those two are the biggest risks I can think of right now. I really do think we have this in the bag if CES and Regfan do turn out to be town and we're not "This game is so easy har har har" laughing our way into a terrible situation D3 because half the town isn't playing the game.

[Antihero]

tth just threatened to kick me in the nuts so

VOTE: aneninen

seriously, this slot is flipping scum

i'll go requote posts later this morning

[Antihero]

if anen flips scum and tth and i turn out to have been right this whole time, i'm going to give you a mountain of shit

[Antihero]

STOP

zach, unless you're privy to EVERYTHING that went on behind the scenes regarding the game assignment, this is stupid

[Antihero]

so that the organizers can accommodate to some reasonable extent

[Antihero]

So giving Regfan's team the open game as their 5th selection over our 2nd preference is reasonable accommodation?

if that was a result of a ripple effect in some other area we don't know about, yes

that's why you have to see the WHOLE picture because the whole LOL OMG GAME SELECTION is an incredibly dumb line of logic otherwise

[Antihero]

Yeah, so you would have got your #1 choice and WF/Nightless would have require numbers due to their unpopularity so you end up with #1/#3/#5.

We also got #1/#3/#5.

Seems fairly even?

can we please stop this now? i can already tell this is going to crater the day if we let it go on.

[Antihero]

'sup, anen?

Frankly, are you scum or simply trolling around?
I've been talking about this game!
But okay, I'm walking you through it.
(1) Take a look at the playerlist of the whole Team Mafia. I'm not even in the Top50 experienced players!
(2) Before replacing in I hadn't heard about Team Mafia at all. (Nor the rules or whatsoever.) While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!
(3) Also, I replaced into a lurk-slot. I haven't got an idea what happened to Psycho and why he didn't do anything. (Here are some paraphrases from the Team Thread: "I don't quite understand whats going on", "grrrr mislynch", then "give me more time", "I don't wanna play"...)

Now, add these things together. What do you get? An easy mislynch.

oh my god you are NOT a newb and you replaced into a SCUMMY slot, not a lurker slot

and don't even fucking PRETEND that you're scumreading me at this point

While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!

what's to not understand?

you're playing a MAFIA game. that means there's an INFORMED MINORITY against an UNINFORMED MAJORITY. it's the DAY PHASE. that means you VOTE who to LYNCH.

is any of this

ringin' a bell?

and the "reads" are made-up horseshit because most of the townreads were consensus townreads not many ppl were going to dispute, the scumreads were bleh-worthy at best, and the TWO LEADING WAGONS we were choosing between JUST SO HAPPENED to fall in this nebulous gray area shrouded in the effluvia of uncertainty that JUST COULDN'T BE LIFTED FUCKING EVER EVEN THOUGH THE ENTIRE THREAD WAS BEATING THE TOPIC TO DEATH

you wanna' go, bro?

[Antihero]

reposting this

(1) "Interaction" as a buzzword? La wow, you're right! Who the f-ck needs interactions at all? Let's post scumreads without talking to the player we have a scumread on!

i get this was supposed to be sarcastic.

but yes.

this.

but here, since we're taking a jog down memory lane, let's revisit everything tth and i said about psyche

gasp

The exchange between you and BBT at the top of page 2 (from about Post 32 to Post 41) was all kinds of awkward on your end. Screaming about being left out and then asking for reasons on ika doesn't quite gel. The comment implying that ika is lynchbait in Post 38 doesn't

quite

fit the context given that nobody is seriously talking about lynching ika. The attack on BBT is subpar even given the relatively low standards of the early game.

in our exchange
you seemed guarded
and not really interested in figuring me out

Funny, that's exactly what I think about you.

I have a light scum read on ika from general game dynamics.
I also have a light scum read on elk, mostly for blanket criticizing the ika wagon but not calling out anyone in particular.

TTH; Can you explain what you're referring to with "general game dynamics" in Post 81 for me please.

I was mostly referring to elk's white knighting of the ika wagon and Psyche's early game questioning of it. Since the set up itself encourages scum to defend each other, I'm treating awkward defense as a bit of a scumtell though I do recognize it could be scum white knighting for town cred thus the "light" read.

ika's empty prod for content in Post 108 doesn't help either.

i mean... if there's a narrative about reads that doesn't make sense here, it's psyche's. and it hasn't since the beginning of this goddamn game. it's not like he's just flat out not here (it looks like his mind is elsewhere day 2) but even on day 1, tth noticed the cracks in the system early on. there aren't any real scumreads really hashed out... anywhere in the iso. there was the whole "group" thing that nacho was townreading for some reason but that ended up being a dead end and it didn't even really make that much sense to begin with and it just kind of spiraled from there into an abyss of lurk.

also, not really buying the team interactions regarding the aero wagon. your "teammates" (notice, we don't hear the name of a specific member) told you to sheep because the wagon was all good in the neighborhood? convenient since it removes every single shred of responsibility for the vote from psyche and puts it on these shadowy mysterious "others" (the teammates who have no name and whoever was already on the aero wagon). where did the townread on all these come from? where did it go? no one knows.

all of this is still valid, bee tee dubbbbbbs

[Antihero]

-.-

anti what are TTH reads atm?

she says it's ces and reg and i completely agree

VOTE: ces

[Antihero]

CES is more likely town because of Zach's townflip.

X

[Antihero]

'Marble, why aren't you voting Cheery Dog? You must know this Psyche-thing is kind of weak given that he's being perfectly open about it.

Hello. You can have elk's spot in my scum pile now.

reread this.
keeping in mind.
marble and cheery dog are town and psyche is scum.

[Antihero]

tth also said the early-game cooperation from copper on psyche is unlikely to have come from scum copper. she doubts copper would've told elk, as scum, to bus especially in this setup.

tth is saying it's not elk and i'm inclined to agree.

[Antihero]

Antihero here's a question then: Why was Zachrulez killed and not you?

probably because he listed regfan as scum and was part of the townbloc.

[Antihero]

regfan probably thinks he has the chops to shield CES by himself and he might not be wrong. i'm sure his first post will be finding the scapegoat in: ika, BBT, elk

[Antihero]

'Marble, why aren't you voting Cheery Dog? You must know this Psyche-thing is kind of weak given that he's being perfectly open about it.

Hello. You can have elk's spot in my scum pile now.

reread this.
keeping in mind.
marble and cheery dog are town and psyche is scum.

i will ADDITIONALLY point out that this is the point where CES took notice and counterattacked TTH. this is what i called the point where he shat his pants.

there's also the fact anen had EVERY FUCKING EXCUSE to sheep his oh-so-strong townreads onto the CES wagon but he didn't do it AND HE EVEN LISTED CES AS SCUM HIMSELF

[Antihero]

I realise I'm being egotistical and I don't care.

I want to show everyone I am right on Ika, if I am somehow wrong, we lynch CES tomorrow.

I want ika lynched.

counter appeal to authority:

the ces read is now effectively a heartless read. i win.

[Antihero]

hey bbt, you remember that time where you got in the shouting match with copper in jk9++ and it ended up absolutely destroying any chances of a town win?

yeah, this is kinda' getting to be like that.

knock it off.

[Antihero]

So many people want to lynch CES that it worries me, in a situation where only one more correct lynch wins the game for town, I'd almost expect more resistance to the CES lynch from the scum, but maybe they just haven't posted yet.

holy shit, elk. it is LITERALLY JUST ME VOTING CES

[Antihero]

so many ppl = me and bbt

seriously, that argument is so mind-numbingly stupid, elk

[Antihero]

[[[[GOOOOOOONG]]]]]]

'Marble, why aren't you voting Cheery Dog? You must know this Psyche-thing is kind of weak given that he's being perfectly open about it.

reposting this just in case anyone didn't see the other two times i posted it.

Catching-up episode cubic root 216

Spoiler:

(1) Antihero, 810 –

"THAT'S classic scum ika."

– Can you give me some details?

(2) Ika, 812 – Oh, this, including the readlist! (Re-formatted by me)

"i havent been really reading the game gif and i agree that CES is scum though –– other then that everything else is meh (im drunk also atm but soering and tired so im streamline mode) –– your town

(he meant Ankamius)[/i] –– anti prob town –– phyce could be scum –– reg might be town –– elk prob scum –– everyone else i dont really care to sort or even see if they exist right now"[/i] – I don't really get it. Where these GIF's reads? Why is BBT not on the list? What's that Elk-read coming out of ...nowhere?

(3) Tammy's 813 –

"I would have bet money on marble being the nightkill last night. "

But she got into this game later... Tammy, had you been reading this game frequently before you arrived?

(4) Meta-based reads from Regfan, 814. Both CES and BBT were hard townread by him here. I only mention it because I saw in his latest post that CES was weak-town and BBT undecided. I want to see his read progression in his later posts. Regfan, was it 1089?

(5) Tammy, 819 – where did this CES scumread come from?

(6) Ankamius, 824 and nearby – I know it's a minor thing in itself, but he wanted Regfan and Tammy to check CES's

ISO

how he speaks about him and CheeryDog. If he really wanted to get an answer, why didn't he link some posts about the topic? It looks as if he had tried to make it harder for them to answer his question. Aaand he answers his own question (if I'm reading the thread right) in 838, without references. Pigeon poop.

(7) CheeryDog, 841

"The fact Aero flipped town and have gut feelings about the chances of other people also flipping town regardless of them looking bad, I think we need to start looking at lynching the stronger players to find our scum."

– That doesn't make much sense. Especially if I read that part of the post further.

(8) Ika, 841

"i honeslty at this point want to lynch CES/CD and if the game isnt over from there (cus right now im gutting on 1/both bgin scums)"

– and this clearly contradicts (2) (where did the Elk read go?) and the whole interaction with BBT. (I've just had an intuition that he didn't push BBT because if BBT flipped town after his push, he would be in a very bad situation.)

(9) BBT, 872 to Ika:

"If you end up flipping scum in this game, I fucking promise you I will push for your lynch every single game we play."

– Because of these sentences I don't think BBT's scum. I think I've read similar sentences before when he was scumreading me. As for Tammy's reaction, 874, do you have the same experience, Tammy?

(10) ... [I wanted to post something that just came into my mind but I got IRL distracted and when I returned to the screen I forgot it. So, it's just a reminder for myself. The chat was opened about the post 878. Aaaaand here comes the kitty again!]

Intermission.
I know it's irrelevant but I think you're gonna love this story.
On my right, my Sweetheart is slumbering. On my left, our kitty. Both of them wants to get stroked. When my Sweetheart wants me to stroke her back, my kitty wants the same, obviously. And when my Sweetheart asks me for stroking her hair, the kitty meows and wants his head to get stroked too.
They're even mirroring each other as they're lying in a similar pose.

(11) And now the whole Ika/BBT interaction changed into something else! Am I too paranoid about this? After all, it seems to be stopped as soon as others started posting again.

(12) On these pages (36–37) the game seems to get stalled. Could this be the case of Aneninen#Unexpected_Gamestall? If so, Wgeurts may be right about CES and I may be wrong.

(13) On the other hand, CES's 945 –

"A friendly reminder to the people on the wagon that you're sharing it with this scumbag. One slot in my scumlist being town does make the rest more likely scum. That's how probability works. I'm not going to suddenly stop trusting my scumhunting process; being wrong occasionally is just part of the game."

– is scummy. It looks as if he had run out of new reasons. On the other hand, he's scumreading Ankamius and I too think he's scum. And his vote is there. Would scums bus in this Setup on Day2? Can someone answer this? And in 954 (answering Ika) – what if he's building up a mislynch here?

(14) Ika, naked vote for BBT in 968. It seems to be inorganic after his discussion with CES. (Could CES/Ika/Ankamius be scums together? If so, bussing is involved.) 972 is not a good reason. Because of the site rules I'm not allowed to explain, why. By the way, Ika, 987: if it disturbs you that this game is PR-less, why did you choose this game?

(15) Tammy, 984 – so, do you think that the whole Ika/BBT was a town-vs-town?

(I arrived at this point, but still need to see the posts I've missed so far.)

(16) BBT, 994 – Elk posted before that they needed to work on the team replacements. Do you think that Ika's 987 was AtE? I think it was simply contentless.

(17) CheeryDog, 1001 – did I missed something or is this that team-scumread on Regfan?

(18) Ankamius, 1005 – ...and I remember that I made a link-list like this in another game... as scum.

(19) Tammy, 1017 – if I assume that you ISO everyone instead of reading the pages, am I right?

(20) CheeryDog, 1018 – Wait-oh, weren't you scumreading Regfan? Did you just jump on the biggest wagon?

(21) Zach, 1029 – Good question! (Although it might have been a result of a token speculation somewhere else)

(22) CES, 1041 (and some related posts) – am I the only one who doesn't understand that CES and CheeryDog are talking about Cheery's Regfan-read while they're voting each other?

(23) Prods in 1048. Maybe I should check whether they were active elsewhere.

(24) Ankamius, 1065 –

"So basically, CES is town because nothing indicates scum."

– is that all about him?

At this point I'm very tired so I may miss things. If that happens, sorry in advance.

But I still want to finish catching up tonight

, because tomorrow I may have a busy day and the Deadline is getting close.

No, sorry, I'm too tired, it's 1:15 at night here. But I'm almost there and I hope that I don't miss a lot of things in the new posts now.

But, I remember this:
CES, you asked about the Ika. Because of the Site Rules I'm only allowed to say this: all the things I know about him (which is not much, I must admit) only strengthens my scumread.
As for his Day1-wagon. Because I think he's scum I'm more concerned about those late votes on the Aero-wagon, especially since he was on V/LA.

Short summary. I'll post a more detailed readlist tomorrow.

Ika and Ankamius seem to be the scummiest. I'd lynch any of them.
As for CES and CHeeryDog – I'm mentioning them because they're the major wagons now.
The scummiest thing about CES is his late-Day1 gameplay and there were other things too. But Wgeurts said that my read is bad on him.
I, myself, unsure about CheeryDog, although a couple of things about his recent play are scummy. (See above!)

Can someone summarize the case against CES and against CheeryDog for me?

Most preferably, Zach, BBT or Antihero – they look very town and they're on either of those wagons.

Before going to bed I'll ask Wgeurts in the Team Topic whether he has anything about Ika/Ankamius/CES/Cheery. Although, another team mate asked for his reads so I don't know whether he'll have time for me. (Or how many pages he's read so far.)

VOTE: Ika
Reasons above.

this is probably the most damning post. if CES vs cheery dog really were a town v town situation, anen HAS EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN REASON TO VOTE CES HERE:
>he already gave reasons for the scumread
>he had stated solid townreads on vocal advocates of the wagon
>it was less than 24 hours to deadline

combined, these factors make for a lot of plausible deniability on anen's part in the event of a ces townflip.

INSTEAD

anen chose to shut off the CES read by using the "teammate" valve with wgeurt's read. that suggests he avoided bussing but left that option open if it became expedient to do so.

[Antihero]

He also listed Cheery Dog as scum and yet he voted neither, because there were two townies on offer and he'd risk looking bad either way.

no, he did not. he hemmed and hawed on cheery dog. this had nothing to do with looking bad or not looking bad because not taking a side at all was going to "look bad" but what would've been even worse for him would be if he bussed you for nothing.

context:

I'm leaning toward a cheery dog vote myself.

Vote Count 2.20

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
ika (2) - theelkspeaks, Aneninen

Not Voting (1) - Tammy

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 25, 2015, at 4:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-25 16:30:00).

you were far from the sure lynch for the day. in fact, with tammy defecting to the cheery dog wagon your odds improved SIGNIFICANTLY if anen kept you out of hammer range. which he did.

because you're scum.

[Antihero]

anen is not a fucking scrub as scum. he has a scummie nom for best scumteam. if cheery dog v CES was town v town he would've known good and well to just give reasons for one and GO WITH IT knowing full well there'd be enough shit to spread around later because there's egg on EVERYONE'S face at the end of all of it. i've seen him do it before.

this is a calculated maneuver to help a scumbuddy.

[Antihero]

Elk's posts near the D2 deadline and his vote to start D3 reeks of scum preplanning.

elk's posts at the beginning of day 1, especially cooperating with TTH to vote a scumbag, do NOT reek of scum preplanning.

[Antihero]

P-edit: it was a weak point by 'marble.

not a weak point by TTH, though.

who you subsequently went after in the most passive-aggressive way possible.

[Antihero]

Hey Elk.

What's your reads on every player?

more importantly: what's your concern with my CES read?

i know i'm not going to get regfan's vote and he's going to come in here and drown the thread in paragraphs peppered with words like "interaction," "progression," "genuine," and "shitless." also, probably something about how he spent chuck-e-cheeses tokens on being town here and about how i'm an insufferable douche. all the while calling CES town (shock) and downplaying NK analysis.

AND

it seems ika, bbt, and elk are COMPLETELY committed to turning this into a freak show. there has to be restored order or we're going to end up lynching another counterwagon to CES based on the people who DROVE THE FIRST TWO MISLYNCHES say so.

COME ON, NOW.

[Antihero]

Aneninen literally doesn't have a post after your context.

yeah, why would he post? you weren't getting lynched.

He had set it up well enough that he could vote for Cheery Dog.

why would he? tammy and the deadline were already gonna' do the lifting for him. and you know what would've looked bad? if he called you scum and then got caught on the town counterwagon. ****keeping in mind: he probably approached this game with the notion your days were numbered WHICH THEY GODDAMN WELL SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

[Antihero]

P-edit: some degree of competence doesn't change the fundamental issue of motivation.

exactly

if it was townvtown he would've just taken a side and voted.

[Antihero]

not a weak point by TTH, though.

who you subsequently went after in the most passive-aggressive way possible.

Can you stop with your deluded pretense that anyone cared about tth? She had 12 posts!

ooooooo am i making you mad now?

# of posts does not imply accuracy of reads

and if you DIDN'T CARE SO MUCH then why did you go out of your way to shoot down townreads on her?

[Antihero]

Marble, Tammy and Zach wouldn't be voting me here.

nah, but they might have voted regfan

everyone else is too far up their own asses to give a shit about your wagon anymore apparently.

[Antihero]

So why didn't BBT post? Why didn't elk post?

Because they literally didn't care who got lynched.

well elk has graduated to lurker at this point so asking why he was absent in a narrow 24 hour window on a weekend is pretty laughable.

i don't know maybe bbt was out wrestling a platypus or something. i don't know what he does with his weekends.

[Antihero]

the ONLY things that give me doubt about bbt:
>the amount he dragged his feet on anen
>anen's vote on him (anen really likes to bus when it doesn't matter)

[Antihero]

'marble and Tammy both had Regfan as town.

both of them also made wall posts that expressed significant doubts. it's not hard to see the seeds of paranoia there. here, i'll find the posts in a sec.

But you're ignoring the point that every nightkill has diminished my influence and Regfan's influence by taking away people that we can reason with.

lolwat?

no you're confusing "the nightkills" with "the people you pushed kept flipping town." that's what diminished your influenced on all the people you didn't have a rapport with. it's not like many of them suspect you anyway. bbt and i suspect you and everyone else is caught up in an ika circlejerk so it's not like "influence" is a precious commodity for you two anyway.

[Antihero]

well elk has graduated to lurker at this point so asking why he was absent in a narrow 24 hour window on a weekend is pretty laughable.

i don't know maybe bbt was out wrestling a platypus or something. i don't know what he does with his weekends.

It's not about activity. Elk's deadline behaviour was purely some vague talk of ISOs; BBT's deadline behaviour is this lame-as-fuck interaction (1353-1357) with elk and arguing dumb stuff with Tammy - not the behaviour of someone who wants to get me lynched.

you linked me to a tammy-zach conversation

[Antihero]

I continue to believe that ika is one of the scummiest players in the game, and his behavior today doesn't diminish my scumread on him.

/sigh

[Antihero]

elk. full reads list.

go.

[Antihero]

'mkay, so we've got the ika wagon again, who was the counterwagon to SCUM yesterday WITH THE SAME PEOPLE ON IT MINUS THE FLIPPED FUCKING SCUM

yeah, bbt, you ARE on crazy pills

[Antihero]

no, he jumped off after i posted the meta. once zach and i started shouting it down, that ika wagon dead in the water.

[Antihero]

Just fucking look at it. Look at the differences in his two hammers.

highlights differences in mood if anything. what's your point?

[Antihero]

SCUM
ika
Anka
CES
Anti/Reg (tie)
BBT
Town

wow that's fucking awful

[Antihero]

Ank's absence at a pretty vital point of the game is somewhat concerning.

holy shit, it's elk/bbt isn't it?

[Antihero]

reminder to self: check out anen's posts regarding elk and bbt tomorrow morning. tired now.

[Antihero]

so

bbt

are you ever planning on giving a read on elk or are you going to talk around it in circles for all of eternity?

[Antihero]

fuck that

VOTE: elk

[Antihero]

rebuttal: elk's recent play is inexcusably fucking awful. we're seeing the SAME IKA PUSH FOR THE SECOND DAY IN A ROW FROM THE SAME PEOPLE

two+two equals four.