White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: CES

[Cheery Dog]

But is he always dunk?

Ika is scum with Cheery Dog. Doesn't matter who the third one is. Zach Oversoul Psyche can be town.

This seems like good reads for now.

VOTE: ika

[Cheery Dog]

"Cheery may have used a scum token"

I'll solve this question for you, I did attempt to use a scum token, still rolled town.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm fine with talking about them, but not as a basis for reads. I'm probably actually going to remain out since I don't know enough to spectate on what others are likely to do. I assume anything said about them is going to be honest though, so it's probably not worth it.
I think anything gained will only benefit team mafia as a while rather than unsocial games.

[Cheery Dog]

But is he always dunk?

Ika is scum with Cheery Dog. Doesn't matter who the third one is. Zach Oversoul Psyche can be town.

This seems like good reads for now.

VOTE: ika

This seems inattentive. How come a list including you-scum is good?

"Cheery may have used a scum token"

I'll solve this question for you, I did attempt to use a scum token, still rolled town.

What do you think you'd have said regarding this had you rolled scum?

You'll notice I said for now, it's going to become not good once I'm more in the game, I don't expect to lynch off it.

I can't be sure as it hadn't happened, I think I'd try to ignore it. Maybe discuss with transited, but the while thing is a hypothetical situation and most can know for sure.

[Cheery Dog]

Maybe he didn't understand how hard it's going to be for us to justify lynching anyone other than him today with this information in play.
Maybe he was concerned people wouldn't believe him if he didn't claim his token and wanted to get in front of the problem, hoping to be townread for doing so.
Cheery Dog is currently ~twice as likely as any other player in this game to be scum. He better do some impressive things if he doesn't want to die.

Expecting me to do something impressive? what is this nonsense?

[Cheery Dog]

Might just be a playstyle thing, might be from playing on another (non-mafia but having mafia games) site with different rules and a meta resulting from that, but I tend to think a quickly building wagon without a solid case, especially at the start of an early day, probably has at least one scum. Don't have good rules for identifying which of the votes is the scum though.

Any wagon has a high chance of containing at least one scum, reasons given regardless. Maybe not in this setup as much if it ends up on scum, so while it may be logical to assume that, save it until you're actually able to do VCA.

83 - Ika, if you think scum is voting you, you should probably do something about that.

like what? i dont want to ruin slayers gambit (cus come on white flag is like the best place to try shit like that)

If you're doing it, it's kind of useless anyway as BBT's post is all you're likely to get.
and I don't see the point in any gambit from town here anyway, regardless of how not-in-meta a gambit is, it's still going to be pointless.

i tried explaining it but i think i will just reiterate that it's pretty esoteric to me
i'm not saying that they're in the same team or anything
they just have the same place in my head when i think about them and this game

You're impressed that I read your post? :S

you know a little less about what the clumps mean than i do but we both homed in on the same tension

i really do apologize for making the clumps now though it's pretty close to meaningless

Can you at least explain how they relate to each other within the clump, I believe there are likely subconscious reasoning you've possibly put them there, and I'd like to get that out.

'Marble, why aren't you voting Cheery Dog? You must know this Psyche-thing is kind of weak given that he's being perfectly open about it.

Hello. You can have elk's spot in my scum pile now.

Why does that mean elk is able to be removed?

Nacho assigns Cheery Dog some townpoints for admitting he took a scum token. I'd like to hear more from CD.
Who are Cheery's buddies?

My best guess currently would be 2 of {Ankamius, elk, ika} although I wouldn't be particularly happy lynching any of those currently.

Too much WIFOM to really call it alignment indicitive, I think.

I think the decision to say it probably isn't very alignment-indicative (the token and his play so far on the other hand totally are). If CD felt it was obvious he would take a scum token, he'd probably feel lying about it would make him more suspicious.

I didn't think it would have been obvious, I may boast of an unbroken scum record, but I also consider my scumplay poor and consider my first scum win to still be my best.

UNVOTE:

[Cheery Dog]

I don't think I've found enough town in anybody yet to do that. At least not until you asked. At this stage I think Pysche and Aeronaut.

Scum reads are probably Llama, BBT and elk.

Vote would probably be on Llama, but it's waiting on what may happen with his push on me before it's placed.

[Cheery Dog]

I'd like reasoning for those reads, Cheery.

Maybe eventually, right now I don't consider them worth having reasoning.

I don't even think the reasoning on you is a thing anymore, i was earlier, but rechecking means it's just there as something I considered rather than useful.
It was the way in which you asked for more votes on ika, but that's rather null.

[Cheery Dog]

It's pointless to ask me for reads in the first place.

[Cheery Dog]

Why didn't you say that instead of providing them then?

because it still was an easy request to fill and I was feeling generous enough to just answer.

the town reads are still all on gut level of getting a few town-vibes, and like I said, not enough to affirm the read itself.

elk is done on a lack of real content, and that is not good content by itslef, therefore not worth putting reasoning on it.

When the ones that actually deserve reasoning being stating and flooding the thread, you'll know about it.

[Cheery Dog]

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

VOTE: Psyche

Do you know where he got that expectation from?

[Cheery Dog]

Okay
I win a lot as town and one of the reasons for that is I don't ignore mechanics when figuring out the game. Scum got daytalk this round; we got tokens.
Maybe it will be clearer if framed differently. Suppose you have a cop that gets a correct result 50% of the time and a random result the other 50%.
That cop has a guilty on CD and an innocent on Regfan. I will need to be :twice: as sure of Regfan scum / Cheery town as normal to go against those results.

And yes, it is true that as scum, if somebody rolled town but used a scum token and admitted it, I would be absolutely gleeful for the free lynch. I have won games as scum following that kind of path.
Fortunately for you, I have a tendency to practically confirm myself as town via dayplay and have already made substantial progress in that direction.

So you're telling us your game plan? Are you really that confident to go on something that is still random even if it had weight.

[Cheery Dog]

As far as I am seeing, llama currently wants to treat me as a milker policy lynch, and I don't like it.

[Cheery Dog]

So this is obviously coming from me as o assume people are waiting on it.

VOTE: llama

Way too much talk of how he's right and should be forehead and whatever, and I'm picking up absolutely zero of that from within his posts.

Pushing a practical policy lynch is not good enough to be deserving of the praise you're asking for by not actually finding scum.

[Cheery Dog]

ok so does soemone have a town case for elk or can we like lynch that slot with fire now?

cus im talking with GIF and the others and they see no reason for it to be town

It's not shown to be definite scum yet either.

As far as I am seeing, llama currently wants to treat me as a milker policy lynch, and I don't like it.

It's not a policy lynch to lynch someone for being more likely to be scum than everyone else.

When you are voting the player most likely to be scum, it is not a policy lynch. It is a trying to win the game lynch.

Publicly more likely because of one statement maybe, but but it's still lynching on the policy of what you think could be a scum claim.

"Cheery may have used a scum token"

I'll solve this question for you, I did attempt to use a scum token, still rolled town.

It's very important that Regfan mentioned the possibility of Cheery's scum-token before Cheery did. He didn't just volunteer this; there was discussion of him spending a scum token and he chose this course of action over lying about his tokens. Most scum do have an irrational preference for telling the truth when possible. And then came this:

It was still information that I was going to bring up at the right time, and talking about it was the right time. I considered opening with it, but it didn't feel necessary then.

I know you've cl;aimed a town token spent here, but it doesn't stop you from being able to have drawn scum.

llamarble, again get ffery into this game as well

Why do you need ffery here? Extra voices through one poster isn't going to help me read a slot.

Top scum-reads right now are Oversoul, Zach and Llama.

So you're going to bug someone else for reasons after being asked for reads without reasons about giving reasons, but not give any yourself?

Don't like CDs Llama vote, think he (Or least his team ie. Hoopla) would know full well that Llama pushing lynches via information such as tokens and statistics makes a lot of sense from him and is most certainly not a scum-tell. Planning on talking with Empire about him and Oversoul when he gets up.

That's not why I'm scum-reading though, the push on tokens isn't the problem (except that I don't like being the target as I still consider it basically policy lynching me for having gambited on trying to get scum) It's the whole thing with pushing in the way of this must happen from the get-go. Although thinking (I really must do that more often) now, I probably have reacted badly.

...

No I can't explain why I consider that a scum tell, it's probably just worthless crap about how I think the game should be played.
UNVOTE:

[Cheery Dog]

Top scum-reads right now are Oversoul, Zach and Llama.

So you're going to bug someone else for reasons after being asked for reads without reasons about giving reasons, but not give any yourself?

I don't believe it will be particularly difficult to find why I am scum-reading each of those players.

Little homework task for you to do.

Go.

So it's that you consider them anti-town?
Well I guess you kind of made a reason on Oversoul, but I'm not seeing it as a strong point.

Motivation required there.

[Cheery Dog]

I still think you're misunderstanding, say Llama has no one that he's "confident" that is scum (Which is the case here)

If he can't find someone he thinks is scum when we have 13 players alive then that's just another reason to lynch him.

Logic does not compute.

[Cheery Dog]

ok heres an idea for you older folks and aeveryone

who do you fear as scum the most and town the most and why

Why are you chucking in random questions?

[Cheery Dog]

As for my teammates, it's mostly been just copper and I looking at this so far. The scumread on Psyche is a combination of following my townread's read and copper's read. I wasn't convinced at first, but I'm feeling it more now than I was - though copper convinced me of it last night after my last post.

Your first post regardling a townread on TTH was you posting that copper thought she would carry the game. I'm not sure if I'm convinced you have any of your own reads here.

[Cheery Dog]

Not quite entirely reserved from there.

[Cheery Dog]

Not quite entirely reserved from there.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

Llama and BBT have moved into town reads. (even though I still kind of want to lynch BBT, his determination of not having tokens been a major thing isn't helping the gameplay, but it's likely to have town thought process)
Elk's still kind of scum, but it's also still sitting as 'bad' rather than scummy, and I think that's all my team has on that matter as well.

Logic for psyche townread has been rethought and moved to null.
I still like some of Aeronaut has posted, but it's not coming often enough to solidify that read.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery, has Hoopla gotten a chance to look at this game?

Gamma's the only one that's up to date on the game in the topic.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery Dog, is your only scum read right now the one on elk?

There's also one coming and going on ika, right now it's there for the stupidity of his last post.
It wasn't there when I had my vote on him.
The problem is that it is ika, and therefore I'm not sure whether it's just playstyle or not. I'm having the same problem about whether psyche could move fully onto the scum side or not as well.

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: ika

I'm annoyed we early wagoned him now, because I'm fairly sure it could be the correct one.
Basically all he has been doing is asking for readlists of no content.

[Cheery Dog]

I don't care for statistics. I just know I rolled against the odds, it doesn't matter what the odds actually are for the fact it happened to be true.

[Cheery Dog]

Yeah okay, I'm voting scum. Shows up instantly after being suspected, comments pretty much only on things that revolve around suspicion directed towards his slot and then tries to cover Elks post as "Stop showing up" rather than a case of Elk having a very genuine conversation between team mates posted.

CES, there's cookies over here.

The elk thing is fine, but when he's also stated that he's going to look through the rest of the thread, I think this post has come up too early for that point to actually be worth anything.

[Cheery Dog]

I do think the ikavote is something you're more likely to do as scum if you feel you're probably getting lynched. I don't really see what Cheery Dog thinks is going to come from that.

I'm hoping what comes will be a successful ika lynch. That's pretty obvious isn't it?

I'm mostly just not in a particular hurry to lynch anyone.

That doesn't seem to be the case to me.

[Cheery Dog]

I think anything gained will only benefit team mafia as a while rather than unsocial games.

What does this mean, Cheery?

That my phone likes not making sense. unsocial was meant to be specific, and for context that was my belief on tokens.

437 - Lot of words, looks good on surface but not a whole lot of useful information in it when you read it closely. Apologies for the wall, tried to break it up as much as I could.

Couple of things;

Good point regarding Ank's reads-list. Look forward to the reply.

"

I don't base my reads solely on the token thing, but if someone in my mind could really either be scum or town, probably going to put them over the edge to be town if they spent tokens to be town

" How do you know they're not lying?

Anti made the town read on that slot stronger because I don't see Anti replacing

into

a scum slot. Glad to see you read thoroughly during your catch up.

Also, from reading your catch-up it feels your scum read on elk should be stronger than null-scum. Feels like you're setting yourself up to join his wagon should it take off again.

You were having '

serious doubts

' about Zach's alignment earlier in the game...I don't remember these doubts being expressed anywhere?

Ah, look at the set-up to join an Aero wagon after people have expressed disliking of that slot. That's just fantastic timing you have there. A 'convenient' time for a 'catch-up' if I've ever seen one.

Now, the only real read you give on me is during my discussion with Psyche regarding Llamarble's reads list in which you say "

This post reads really town to me on my second read through of the game. This is the type of frustration I think I would feel at this point talking to another player who doesn't see what I am seeing.

". When you reply to one of my posts, you seem to reply like you're town-reading me (know I'm town?)

So, how does this develop into a BBT scum-read? Not even null-scum, full on scum-read.

You say it's based on a 'theory'. You're going to have to do

much

better than this. I initially felt like the point of you bringing your teams reads into the game, especially using Tammy as someone who is scum-reading me, was a method of setting yourself up to attack me without it looking too blatant that it's OMGUS.

Hyper-aggressive on a single point is scummy? Firstly, don't act like that's all I have done because it isn't. Secondly, go read some of Thor's games when he is town. That's a pretty poor reason for scum-reading anyone, especially when you readily admit to having no idea how said person plays.

"

By being this aggressive and sticking to a theoretical reason to disagree with everyone

" This is a huge misrep and exposes your scum read as pretty weak.

I'm really happy with my vote and people should be voting Oversoul now.

Thanks.

I don't understand how people manage to always scumread people for talking to scumreads as if they could be town. I've seen this in so many games and it's never made sense to me, that's just how playstyles work.

[Cheery Dog]

Ffery is going to check out the BBT aggressive scum thing - I don't see it but I haven't looked at any meta so I'll look into it if Ffery says it's plausible.

I had a look at him earlier, I think he generally tries to be aggressive as both alignments.

VOTE: ika

I'm annoyed we early wagoned him now, because I'm fairly sure it could be the correct one.
Basically all he has been doing is asking for readlists of no content.

Why is it a problem that we wagoned him at the beginning of the game? Nothing is stopping us from doing it again.

Because when I moved off him i was thinking 'eh probably town', and paranoia says that could still be the case.

I think most people just want to deal with him later, and given that he is playing to go under the radar and having that work, my suspicions raise. I suspect most people are likely to determine the same thing.

[Cheery Dog]

ika wagon would be a waste, let's save him til we can read him better in a day or two.

What makes you think he's going to improve, the only changes that happen later are PoE, and improving reads in that fashion happen to everyone.

I do think the ikavote is something you're more likely to do as scum if you feel you're probably getting lynched. I don't really see what Cheery Dog thinks is going to come from that.

I'm hoping what comes will be a successful ika lynch. That's pretty obvious isn't it?

And you think that will happen just as a result of you placing a single unexplained vote?

The explanation may not be in a case format and it's not going to go into one, if people don't want to bother themselves with their own research, that's their own problem in understanding how there is a reason already in that post.

and he's still doing the same thing of not actually helping the gamestate.

are we goning to wagon me again? can i finally do slayers gambit?

Yes (maybe, I don't have a strong say though). No because you can't do that unless you're going to bus someone, in which case, yes, please go ahead.

[Cheery Dog]

ika's play here feels kinda like some of his play in Hilariously Unbalanced 2, where he was town (in a hydra with mollie) - in that game he went back and forth between super-argumentative and the way he's playing here.

that's a decent part of why I think his wagon isn't great.

I'm currently the only one on it, does the wagon not being great mean anything towards my alignment?

[Cheery Dog]

ika's play here feels kinda like some of his play in Hilariously Unbalanced 2, where he was town (in a hydra with mollie) - in that game he went back and forth between super-argumentative and the way he's playing here.

that's a decent part of why I think his wagon isn't great.

I'm currently the only one on it, does the wagon not being great mean anything towards my alignment?

There seemed to be a couple people thinking about wagoning him, so I was saying I didn't like the idea of wagoning him because

Assume they have also joined, does anything change with who is on in terms of possible scum?

[Cheery Dog]

Nacho thinks Aero + Cheery; not so much Ank (combined scum effort against me seems unlikely to him). He provided reassurances for Zachtown (#320 in particular shows the full confidence of never getting lynched hard for Zachscum to demonstrate) and liked the same CES post others have. Also pointed out some townish Psyche posts (groupings post shows thought process; doesn't seem like the type of thing scum would bother with).

I thought the same thing about psyche's group post, but when it aril hadn't been explained/made useful to the rest of it's, it's just random shit.

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: areonaut

more talk tommorow. lets move on with the game you gusy bore me. we can spec about nk tommorow

You want everyone to go through useless crap tomorrow? Unless you're being weird with your kill, what is will there be to speculate on?

"So and so was kilted because scum though they were a vanilla townie"

[Cheery Dog]

Wat
If BBT and Elk joined, this might become the towniest wagons I've ever been part of...

my only townread on the wagon is regfan

everyone else is firmly in the bleh territory

That seems odd when he's the one there I'm least confident in being town, but I think that's mostly based on bop as as I expect him to be more obvtown than he had been.

For those interested, I've dropped the town lean I had on aero, the content just isn't coming to keep out there, this means he is now in the null range, I'm still not sure it's the best lynch though.

[Cheery Dog]

What's wrong with those 4 posts Zach?
Can we get another Aero vote? They're not here, they're not going to be here, we're not actually doing anything right now. BBT / Elk would be my favorite votes to add.

I feel that this idea if just having your townie reads on the wagon doesn't make sense. If aeronair flips town that's extra creedence to not look at the people that joined the wagon.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm town.
Just a bit busy for a smidge while longer.

Can we get a double check of that?

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery I will grant you that you are a strange creature, but if you're town then it's really hard for Aeronaut to be town...

It's the same 25% (+/- token values) of everyone else.
and I'm not seeing any non-association tells that would me me/him a town/scum. (what he did with ignoring elk's town post)
I'm still not going to fight his wagon for him, I'm just not convinced he is the best choice for a day 1 lynch.

The simple answer is you're not flipping town.

And when I do?

It'll be a different game, and therefore not relevant to this game.

3) not really? im actualy endorsing my own waogn if you havent noticed. im just poking the people who are voting me for shitty-ass reasoning (you BBT)

Where's my poking from you then? I feel left out.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm still not getting any wrath of ika? What's the point in me bring on his wagon then.

[Cheery Dog]

I would be totally okay with an ika wagon.

Rereading Aeronaut now.

How come he has become readable today now?

I don't have time to do the analysis I planned.
But I'll VOTE: Aero I guess.

You should just do it instead of planning about how you're going to do it.

[Cheery Dog]

Well it's even harder when I made that question forgetting who had actually posted along those lines of ika not being readable until later.

[Cheery Dog]

Wifom generators are scummy well done on working that out!

[Cheery Dog]

After the Aeronaut flip, I really have no clue about this game anymore. Tammy and I agree that CES rushing the game into night was weird and did not seem particularly town motivated, especially given Aero's town flip.

I'm actually kind of feeling the opposite about CES doing that after he announced he wasn't looking.

It's not like any of the rest of us actually did stuff there.

I'm more inclined to lynch off wagon. Especially considering the kill. I'm just feeling with where the wagon stalled at scum were likely sitting back off the wagon knowing what the flip was going to be, and it's also a happy bonus that I find the people off the wagon generally more suspicious than those on.

That doesn't douns like normal scum behaviour to me, there would have to be at least one scum on the wagon already.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm more inclined to lynch off wagon. Especially considering the kill. I'm just feeling with where the wagon stalled at scum were likely sitting back off the wagon knowing what the flip was going to be, and it's also a happy bonus that I find the people off the wagon generally more suspicious than those on.

That doesn't douns like normal scum behaviour to me, there would have to be at least one scum on the wagon already.

So what, are you saying you think more are on wagon? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.

Odds are on that there are more on the wagon. (or equal if I look from a townie on the wagon's perspective)

There's also the issue of BBT being the only person widely townread (except from ika apparently) that was not on the wagon, the kill coming off the wagon means absolutely nothing.

[Cheery Dog]

so GIF and I are considering switching games.

who think yay and who thinks nay (outside of BBT who has yet to admit his contridiction or justifying his smatics)

Does he have any current reads on this game?

[Cheery Dog]

Don't really understand the point you are trying to make here, Cheery.
Can you only read Ika when he responds under the pressure of being near lynch?

I'm just jealous he was talking to everyone else on his wagon but ignoring my vote, I believe direct interaction can lead to a better read on someone. I'm not sure if it was there with ika, but he never even tried getting me to remove my vote yesterday.

[Cheery Dog]

On another note, it's time for gamma's reads, or at least the part of them that are given to me and then badly paraphrased.

VOTE: Regfan

We have a large scumread on regfan.

CD is still very very likely mafia and as much as it pains me to admit it I probably should have buried my ego and sheeped there D1.

This post triggered the need for the vote to be laid down, as it's just an excuse to lay away from the awful case that was there yesterday. (awful case being from my Post 462 where I called it out, although Gamma also didn't like the comment about elk that I said was fine). That post then goes about that something else should have been down instead of the aeronaut lynch, aka my lynch, aka a different townie dying earlier. My flip is not going top have changed the matters. I still fully expect to have been lynched before lylo because of the whole token thing - which is always worth considering.

and older Gamma reads are CES making good comments about ank being team-heavy theory. Ank having too much effort in his posts to avoid poking - when lynch happened Ank was therefore most likely scum.
elk looking bad from pre-team conversation post. I believe he still looks bad beside that one post, but as I said somewhere, it's still just 'bad' so much as 'scummy'.
Around the middle of Day 1 (I think this is around where I voted Llama, and he told me it was a bad vote, but I pushed on with my own agenda then) psyche was scummier than elk acccording to Gamma, and zach was a little-off but not alignment-indicative.

[Cheery Dog]

We have a large scumread on regfan.

This post triggered the need for the vote to be laid down, as it's just an excuse to lay away from the awful case that was there yesterday. (awful case being from my Post 462 where I called it out, although Gamma also didn't like the comment about elk that I said was fine). That post then goes about that something else should have been down instead of the aeronaut lynch, aka my lynch, aka a different townie dying earlier. My flip is not going top have changed the matters. I still fully expect to have been lynched before lylo because of the whole token thing - which is always worth considering.

Don't like nor can I follow any of this at all, doesn't read even remotely genuine (Nor does the fact that you have "team reads" that are severely outdated that weren't brought into the thread when they were "given" to you - looks more like a "Lookie here, I can fake having had team reads" to seem town). Still think the fact that Aero avoided commenting on anything really game-related other than the fact that he was being FoS'ed to be a massive massive scum-tell. Only thing I'm annoyed at is that it's now twice in a row (Last TM I forced through a lynch on Amrun who was the sole town player in my scum pool instead of joining CES and co elsewhere on actual scum) that I've been wrong and I hate being wrong, really really do.

I ignored being them earlier because they didn't feel worth it back then, and I'm not really sure they were worth having them here now, but I was bringing some up now, because I was happening to agree with the reasoning behind them, so I felt I may as well put the others in. It was also the first I'd had time for the Ank read from Gamma - the psyche and stuff could have been earlier.

I also don't really expect you to follow, you're not required to vote yourself for being scummy by excusing poor "egotistical" play from yesterday.

Cheery Dog, Regfan is not getting lynched unless he keeps living without winning us the game. He's not close to being a lynch option yet.
What's the basis of that read anyway? Just that one (genuine-sounding) post?

Can we just lynch Ank today? He is so scummy.

Who you say is getting lynched or not lynched doesn't concern my vote placement. The fact Aero flipped town and have gut feelings about the chances of other people also flipping town regardless of them looking bad, I think we need to start looking at lynching the stronger players to find our scum.

Well either ika's improved or I've just stopped caring about him, could still lynch psyche, and I'm just not sure on Ank actually being a good lynch either.

I'm already calling the burden of proficiency on regfan, who cares about waiting. He wasn't obvtown enough to me yesterday to be considered town, and with his start today, it's just gotten worse.

[Cheery Dog]

Reading futher, I'm fairly sure I have just switched ignore mode on ika, that pg31 interchange with BBT was bloody horrible to read.

Regfan, you must be able to see that 726 is a town-looking post. Can we just lynch Ank today? He is so scummy.

The issue I have with it was the lack of reads/stances from him, really really needed that, starting to see it in Post 772 and Post 784 and Post 786 and feel much better about him being town due to them, the first and third reading the most genuine. Also you're not reading CD's whole "my teams old ancient reads exist and are x/y/z" as a huge scum-tell and something that reads as faked (If they were legit he'd have mentioned them earlier). Still have a few reservations on Ank but I'm willing to concede that my town read that I had on him is completely dead and I may have been wrong there.

There's somewhere in my iso where I questioned asking for someone's teamate (I think someone wanted gif's opinion from ika) about why that was the case.
Also how I reacted to losing beer pong during the reckoning (not that any of you were there, but I went and blamed my brother on it)

What this means is I probably shouldn't be playing team mafia, as I'm not exactly a good team player - and therefore the reads will come late.
They were posted in the stuff to paraphase so you could follow gamma's mind through the game, and I tend to ignore stuff I can't work out how to phrase into my own typed language version.

[Cheery Dog]

Reading the above two posts as p genuine, specifically the "I'm not a good team player" admission behind not outing team-reads and while it's super annoying and wrong I don't think he'd be attempting to use BoP on me at this point as scum especially when it's p fucking obvious that I'm not going to be mslynched here, think he'd instead be focusing on pushing someone that would have a legit chance of being lynched over him. STILL want reads and thoughts in more depth from him but really not feeling good about my vote on him anymore and think I need to step back here.

Unvote

CD, if there are any other thoughts your team have left you inside your PT (Either in the past or from now on) I'd like them posted in the thread, I don't care if they're not "phrased perfectly". Also would like links whatever games you're comparing me not being as 'obvtown' to since I don't actually remember playing with you at all? outside of marathon games which I play rather differently entirely.

The main gist I'm getting at is that CES is much more dismissive and aggressive against me and a lot more calm and inquisitive against Cheery Dog throughout the game, yet apparently Cheery Dog was a stronger scumspect until very recently.

I don't really agree with this being the case, the only posts I think he's like that with you in is Post 475 and maybe Post 653 and even then I don't read that as a scum-tell given that I was also annoyed by stalling of the day at that point. Gone over his ISO several, several times now and I'm still flat out not seeing the scum-read on him, don't get me wrong he's not in my 'ubertownbetthegameonthem' pile but I'm not seeing what others are here.

@BBT; Re; Psyche in Post 835 it's certainly something I'm considering right now. Want to check with my team first to make sure they also read CD's recent stuff as more genuine/town and then do a meta check on Psyche but that's probably where I'll be throwing down a vote, don't like him popping in every time he's mentioned promising content and reads 'later' and 'soon' without any follow through whatsoever like in Post 836. Also still think his team-mates comments re; the wagon yesterday and him using them as reasoning is a scum-tell too.

I think they did all post them, unless I skipped the llama-town based around his comment of me being 'netural at worse'.

I don't have any games I've based it on exactly, and it's probably only been in random games I've read that I've noticed anything (I think I read a few of my brothers games that you were in - but they're all old and I won't remember anything from them), so it's probably what I expect upon hearing your name, and it could be a false feeling. Gamma feels certain with that post I quoted anyway.

I don't actually know the level of obvtown I was expecting, and for all I know in comparison I could be wanting you to high jump over the pole vault.

[Cheery Dog]

wait a second, you're on marquis' team and he hasn't said a word about this game yet.

you grab his ear and give it a twist.

marquis is keeping up w/ the game....????????????

...

red flags are starting to go up

Are you expecting him to have done stuff or not, these posts in a row have a ounce of contradiction.

I think I've worked out they don't know, but posting anyway because they looked like they might have earlier.

[Cheery Dog]

my scum meta is in fact to kick ass and take names

So, that's kicing your own arse and then taking your name?

[Cheery Dog]

I don't even need to claim tokens. I'm just going to outright say I'd have swapped out of a scum role by now.

I can say exactly the same thing (and it's provable). Would you say that's a strong argument for me being town?

Please prove it then.

[Cheery Dog]

I just went back to check that statement and found this (last line is the important bit, but I'm nt going to crop it on my phone)

There should be at least some token discussion up in here (Think it'll be useful now if not will certainly be later in this game/tournament). I used two for town here and wasn't even the biggest hog in our team, Empire took three. Want to know where/how other teams used their tokens.

We can do that later. I'd rather do some good ol'-fashioned RVSing first.

Cheery Dogread was mostly an instinctual response to his opening post's lack of anything. His second post is probably worse, although I initially skimmed over it. The token angle did come to mind but that's not based on much. You should join the wagon, Regfan, you know what happened when you went off on your own last time D1.

This is just weird given that regfan started off this day saying the same thing.
As of now I'm making it as possible scum together.

[Cheery Dog]

It's not fearmongering. That is literally the only thing Ank has said to support his vote on me. Cheery is even worse in that he just simply didn't support his vote on you one iota; and his Regfanvote isn't that much better. How many times am I going to have to point this out before I get my scum lynches?

That depends on how long it ths you to actually find scum with your hunt. Pointing crap out about me is never going to get you scum.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm not even fully sure what point you're making, Cheery Dog, but the post you quoted was in response to Regfan's first post.

Knowing where your response has come from doesn't change the point at all.

The point itself being a possible daytalk about that subject.

It's not fearmongering. That is literally the only thing Ank has said to support his vote on me. Cheery is even worse in that he just simply didn't support his vote on you one iota; and his Regfanvote isn't that much better. How many times am I going to have to point this out before I get my scum lynches?

and your own reads have better reasons, or just ones that you can understand? Because that's what I feel you've put on me here.

[Cheery Dog]

I think we should lynch Psyche's slot where it stands.

That would involve having it actually stand up first.

[Cheery Dog]

I think we should lynch Psyche's slot where it stands.

That would involve having it actually stand up first.

Eh, what is this post all about?

Here, also let me deliver a public service announcement from Sotty's read of this game as well...

So this is obviously coming from me as o assume people are waiting on it.

VOTE: llama

Way too much talk of how he's right and should be forehead and whatever, and I'm picking up absolutely zero of that from within his posts.

Pushing a practical policy lynch is not good enough to be deserving of the praise you're asking for by not actually finding scum.

What was this all about? You pushed this as a point but then after Regfan called you out on it, (In 272) you immediately dropped the vote? (In 294)

I'm saying that Psyche's slot is still in bed because it hasn't done anything, and therefore not actually standing.

I'm fairly sure that post makes it clear I was rethinking that position, if you want to go whatever about it, whatever.

[Cheery Dog]

So very many V/LAs!

Zack's point about Cheery does seem to be pretty spot-on from a look. That definitely makes me feel worse about cheery than before.

My ika vote has been talked about by CES for the past few pages, yet you're only agreeing with me looking worse when Zach brings it up (along with the llama unvote, which frankly is even worse)

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery dog can you talk a bit more about your Regfan scum read? Has gamma been the only teammate to give input there?

I'll grab my major problems posts out again. I'm not going to try and build a case on anything else.

I do agree, however, that it seems whoever scum reads CD earns a scum read back.

Hasn't everyone at some stage had a form of scumread on me? Most people usually do end up with one at some point or another. If I'm calling them out it's because they have a crap case and attacks making me scum, and aren't showing enough conviction to show me that they're truly reading me wrong. Apparently that's what I'm doing with other people to get some of the reads, but actual scum are much harder to find than me.

[Cheery Dog]

I forgot your second question as I was deciding whether to ignore ika's post or not. Hoopla's still practically non-existant, and Katsuki is meant to have been catching up on this after being lynched in his game. (I assume that isn't actually happening, but I've asked for updates).

Yeah okay, I'm voting scum. Shows up instantly after being suspected, comments pretty much only on things that revolve around suspicion directed towards his slot and then tries to cover Elks post as "Stop showing up" rather than a case of Elk having a very genuine conversation between team mates posted.

CES, there's cookies over here.

I thought this one had more on it to have the suspicion, but apparently I'm misremembering, which means my personal read isn't as high as I want to think it is.
Aeronaut had V/LA tags up here, and there is nothing overly scummy about just defending yourself when you first show up again to the thread. I orginially never desribed this as Aero proceeded to disappear until he came back to actually announce the V/LA to the thread and I did find the comment about Aero brushing off elk's post as the correct thing to point out there.

Still very confident on BBT (Singer told me she thinks she can read BBT after being a scum partner with him in a prior game and will get around to reading him here to confirm this later when she has time), Elk, Zach and Ika are town. Still lean towards Oversoul and CES being town. Significantly less sure about my Ank town read, think Llama dying over me means I probably have a read wrong and here's the only one I can think might be.

CD is still very very likely mafia and as much as it pains me to admit it I probably should have buried my ego and sheeped there D1.

Vote: Cheery Dog

Do need to get a better grip on Anti/Psyche - still think Anti's "wagon is meh" as a reason for not joining doesn't make an ounce of sense given that his scum reads were elsewhere and didn't like his explanation following it up, really need some updated reads from him with reasoning attached.

Psyche - What are your teams thoughts on this game at the moment and why did they think you should have jumped on due to the wagon-make-up?

Tammy and I agree on something!

You're both going to have to explain it for me, I'm not seeing it at all. Still find his comments in Post 49, Post 384 and Post 608 as town.

PEdit: Eh, that really does nothing for me Oversoul, I was also rushing it into night and fairly confident that we were hitting mafia, can very easily understand if CES was in the same boat as me especially since I thought the game was going to be as easy as going 1-2 (And maybe 3) and didn't want to waste time watching my town reads fight over stupid things, so why does that reasoning not lead you to having me as scum then?

I'm going to go back to Gamma's post about this one, because I don't think there's anything I didn't add about it last time on my own opinion. Playing with the thesaurus time!

This is EXTREMELY atrocious. Gamma forcefully thinks that sort of "my procedure was bad and i'm alert to this and look over there that's what we OUGHT TO have done CLEARLY" is CONSIDERABLY more plausible to be coming from scum than town as a path of proactively expounding why what they did was bad and trying to persuade players that they're town.

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally, and that his remark ages ago about elk not being scum with aeronaut felt like an exemption not to vote him even though that's a fairly negligible thing.

[Cheery Dog]

This is EXTREMELY atrocious. Gamma forcefully thinks that sort of "my procedure was bad and i'm alert to this and look over there that's what we OUGHT TO have done CLEARLY" is CONSIDERABLY more plausible to be coming from scum than town as a path of proactively expounding why what they did was bad and trying to persuade players that they're town.

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally

But Regfantown would definitely feel that way. They're pretty obvious comments for him to make.

Which goes with you encouraging him to

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally, and that his remark ages ago about elk not being scum with aeronaut felt like an exemption not to vote him even though that's a fairly negligible thing.

Why would Regfanscum want a reason not to vote Aeronaut?

If you think Regfan is scum, doesn't Ankamius seem like a slamdunk scum buddy anyway? I very much doubt Regfanscum can afford to bus.

I think it might be something to with not wanting to vote elk, I'll bug gamma to redefine that one.

Nope. I'm tending to actually townread Ank.
and since he has now posted his "proof", and it wasn't trying to be a trust tell like I suspected when I asked for it, I think that's still more reason to have him as town.

However since you're trying to move me off my vote to someone that 'could' be a buddy, it's just what?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CES

[Cheery Dog]

It was apparently referring to this post.

Also worth stating that my team thinks that Aeroaut fits "Wallflower scum" in that his posts his posts really just leave him in the background but don't think he makes sense with Elk as scum since don't think he'd buss D1 in this setup and more confident on Elk being scum here, want to know what you think of the two of them individually / as potential partners at the moment cause that's kind of messing up our reads a little right now.

With more information about Regfan having brought up wallflowers and then bussing that early in the game. The thing about trying to do associate tells is overkill there.
It by itself isn't much to go on, but it's mostly fake content as that type of reads just doesn't get there accurately that early in the game.

[Cheery Dog]

Katsuki is meant to have been catching up on this after being lynched in his game. (I assume that isn't actually happening, but I've asked for updates).

Some parts of it got read. Kats would like to know why you asked if others than Gamma would giving me input, and why you think that might have been the case.

Also what CES's case on me actually is.

I do obviously think an Ankvote would be the better play for if you're town, but I was mostly just probing your view of the game and your conception of Regfanscum. What do you think Regfanscum is actually doing?

No, voting townreads is not a better play for me if I'm town. It's a better play for you as it might get a different townie lynched.

Regfan is doing what most scum do - trying to get read as town.

For example, his recent unvote of me about me being more genuine, and his teammates not thinking that's the case, that's an attempt to get on my good side after calling my post from teammates as in-genuine. His teammates reads giving the opposite opinion is making the read of me straddle the fence, and he could come back if other people were joining my wagon.

[Cheery Dog]

That's pretty much it, and the fact he tried to direct me off regfan to someone in his own scumlist told me it was likely enough that I could join the larger wagon.

[Cheery Dog]

We're done to 4 and a half days left, I think that's time enough to start looking at the other options, as I'm only going to have one more completely free day this week, and that doesn't count myself getting distracted.

[Cheery Dog]

And Zar's comment on you was good insight. Did that read as faked to you?

There was nothing new in his comments.

[Cheery Dog]

Time to go back over stuff I skimmed with the phone yesterday.

With more information about Regfan having brought up wallflowers and then bussing that early in the game. The thing about trying to do associate tells is overkill there.
It by itself isn't much to go on, but it's mostly fake content as that type of reads just doesn't get there accurately that early in the game.

Now you're just trying to claim the post is suspicious regardless of what happened.

I'm putting out what Gamma gave me. I don't personally care about the post, hence why I didn't quote it earlier.

I think I'd be fine with a cheery dog lynch. I just caught that part about Regfan unvoting to get on cheery dogs good side. I can't imagine a world where scum!regfan would need to get on cheery dogs good side, and I don't believe he even believes that.

Don't all scum want to stop town from scumreading them? My wagon also hadn't exactly been picking up that much pace.

I think it really is about time Cheery Dog got lynched. He hasn't made a credibly motivated vote all game and his last few posts are pretty much just mudslinging.

Is this seriously all you're going to chase my lynch on now?
If I'm acting mudslinging now, it's because YOU don't actually have any basis on your OWN reads still.

I don't actually know if I have a good read on you, because you're just making me mad with stupid stuff that means absolutely nothing towards finding out my alignment, but unlike my llama vote and removal, nothing has made me see you coming from a town perspective in regards to the meaningless stuff.

[Cheery Dog]

@Tammy, I think I might have mentioned wanting to lynch me before lylo, I'm definitely aware of me thinking it.

The second bit is in response to CD's 1049.

That has nothing to do with what you asked.

lol i got prodded

That generally means you should try for more ceontent.

[Cheery Dog]

I also suspect you've literally never voted for scum this game.

That's a really nice cover story you've got yourself for when I flip town

[Cheery Dog]

All this "genuine/ingenuine" reads on me are also fairly meaningless. What exactly is ths motivation of being so called ingenuine?

[Cheery Dog]

This my last post of the day probably, too much Anzac day stuff going on (also a scout camp)

and since I currently don't have anything personal to add, there's nothing here.

[Cheery Dog]

Except that

Kats

keeps bugging me to repost their questions since they didn't get answered.

@

Tammy

, why did you want to know if I'd received stuff for others than just gamma, and why did you think I might have been?

@

CES

, what is your actual case on me?

[Cheery Dog]

I think the elk lynch ended up being the worst for town. YOu guys really should have solved the BBT/CES dilemma then. I had BBT has the best lynch for Day 4 down in my team's PT - I think I stopped caring as much when you lynched elk instead.