White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

Aneninen · Post Post #996 (isolation #0) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:50 pm

Hi everyone!
I'll start catching up today. As far as I can see I may have time 'till Deadline to read the game. Or at least I hope so.

Aneninen · Post Post #998 (isolation #1) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:47 am

I'll keep your request in mind.
According to the main thread you must mean the Team Mafia Thread. However, I haven't received a link to it so far so I don't know whether they have an opinion about the game at all.

Also, the rules say:

"You may copy and paste whatever you want INTO the team PT. You may not copy and paste text OUT OF the PT."

– If I'm correct I can't quote anything from there, only paraphrase (or even not that?).

Aneninen · Post Post #1007 (isolation #2) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:02 am

So, catching-up starts.

Spoiler:

Sorry, I need to go now. I'll continue catching-up from Page7.

Keep in mind that I'm only on Page7 so I don't have solid reads yet. I post my readlist after I've finished catching-up. (And I still can't see the Team Topic.)

Aneninen · Post Post #1015 (isolation #3) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:41 am

Catching-up, next part.

Spoiler:

Also, I have the Team Topic access now, thanks Zoraster!
However, I've only looked into it, so far it doesn't seem that they have a detailed opinion about this game. Although, I only checked a couple of posts so I may have missed info there.

Aneninen · Post Post #1028 (isolation #4) » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:35 am

I have a very busy day so it's possible that I won't show up 'till tomorrow.

Aneninen · Post Post #1077 (isolation #5) » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:30 am

Oh finally, some time!

Catching-up, next part.

Spoiler:

Also, this could be important:

Spoiler:

Summary:

Spoiler:

Aneninen · Post Post #1106 (isolation #6) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:49 am

On my way...

Catching-up, next part

Spoiler:

Aneninen · Post Post #1109 (isolation #7) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:04 am

Some answers.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Yarr. Oversoul's second wall was really solid.
Did Espeonage or T-bone comment on that at all?

Which wall do you mean? 437 or 441? Because, after I've caught up I'll read it if needed.
I don't think my other team mates commented anything about that. I'm saying "I don't think" because there are some posts I can't decide which game they belong to, or if they belong to any particular game at all. I'll give an example if needed.

↑ Regfan wrote:A) I want this Elk meta of 'breaking the game' ect. from you and B) I want you to explain to me how you're reading his play here as "breaking the game by setup spec", he's doing the opposite of that here, he voted Oversoul BECASUE Oversoul used setup spec and suggested it's usage is a scum-tell.

I've checked it and it was someone else. Sorry, it happened last summer and I remembered only the name that Elk was there. So, this part should be ignored.

↑ theelkspeaks wrote:I think Aneninen was mixing me up with someone else there - in Elements Mafia (where all games are opens or semi-opens with unlimited private communication between anyone who chooses to) setup spec and attempts to break the game are pretty common, as are attempts to coordinate power roles to "solve" the game. I've generally been one of the advocates for actually scumhunting, though occasionally used what spec there was to my advantage, and when I moderated a game there, I tried to push the trend towards less "breakable" games by introducing safeclaims to the meta. The mafia won that game and town complained that safeclaims were unfair afterwards *facepalm*, but ideas for making the game less breakable have persisted, so I'm happy with that.

Yeah, as I've just mentioned, I mixed you up with Rootranger. Elements Mafia #39 and #40, both of you were in those games.
(I actually found the link of MafiaScum on that page so I signed up here. And stopped playing there because of all those break-able setups.)

↑ Antihero wrote:look at the reads

↑ Aneninen wrote:May be town: Zach, BBT, Regfan (?), TheElkSpeaks (???)
No idea: Antihero, CheeryDog
May be scum: Oversoul, Ankamius, Ika, Cogito Ergo Sum (?)

shit soup

Half cooked soup, as I mentioned. Those were the reads after the first 20 pages, that'swhy I posted the part which you didn't quote:

"Keep in mind that my reads are essentially vague and may change a lot later!"

.
Before you ask: this goes for my current reads too.

Aneninen · Post Post #1128 (isolation #8) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:03 am

Catching up. Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back

Spoiler:

Some answers.

Spoiler:

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
↑ Aneninen wrote:Which wall do you mean? 437 or 441? Because, after I've caught up I'll read it if needed.

441. 437 is quite a bit more meandering and not as good.¹
What did you think of the ikawagon?²

(1) That will happen but I want to finish catching-up first.
(2) Right now Ika looks very scummy, mostly because of the thing I mentioned in the recent catch-up, see (6). There are other things too, eg. (18) and some older things in my previous catch-ups. As for it's

wagon

, so far it has consisted of two names Today. If Page32–33 were the last page of the game I'd vote for him, but I need to see the remaining pages first.

↑ Regfan wrote:Anti the only read in Anens reads section of the Post 1077 that I find scummy is the town-read on Elk since if he really did mix Elk up as someone else and believe that Elk was someone that "breaks games" as town then Elk voting people attempting to break the game here should have been a huge scum tell for him, not a reason to call him town.¹ I do like elements of his most recent catch up in Post 1106 specifically his mention of two votes being parked on him but him town reading both players that did so.² I'm willing to let him finish catching up but he needs to really speed it up.

I don't think Tammys "He stopped to mention something from the team thread" point of Anen is a town-tell though given the sheer amount that CES has pushed him to post teams thoughts in the thread. In fact I'm slightly bugged by his "Wgeurts checked the Aeronaut-wagon and a couple of pages of the game and said something like
"I don't know them personally but Regfan, Llamarable and CES look town, thus Aeronaut can be scum"."
element in Post 1077 given that Psyches answer when I asked him in Post 680 whether they wanted him to join the wagon becasue a) They town-read people on the wagon or b) They thought the players on the wagon were competent and his answer in Post 681 was effectively b while Anen's is a.³

Actually yeah, after typing all of that Anen is probably scum here too. Also don't like how his recent posts look like setting up to vote CES over CD here.⁴

(1) I've never townread Elk because of that off-site game. I had other reasons at that time (see my first catch-up, (5) ) and I have some later as well.

(2) I posted that vote-parking on a non-moving wagon is a scummy thing but in

that

particular case I wasn't sure about it because there weren't many things against Antihero or Elk. See 1106's (16).

(3) This has been explained in the catchup above, see point (3) there!

(4) That's not true. CheeryDog is in the "I don't know" cathegory right now (eg. although (9) in this catchup is a thing I didn't like). Cogito Ergo Sum is indeed one of my scumreads, but Wgeurts has just started to read this game and he says that I'm misreading CES.

Aneninen · Post Post #1148 (isolation #9) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:23 pm

Catching-up episode cubic root 216

Spoiler:

Short summary. I'll post a more detailed readlist tomorrow.

Ika and Ankamius seem to be the scummiest. I'd lynch any of them.
As for CES and CHeeryDog – I'm mentioning them because they're the major wagons now.
The scummiest thing about CES is his late-Day1 gameplay and there were other things too. But Wgeurts said that my read is bad on him.
I, myself, unsure about CheeryDog, although a couple of things about his recent play are scummy. (See above!)

Can someone summarize the case against CES and against CheeryDog for me?

Most preferably, Zach, BBT or Antihero – they look very town and they're on either of those wagons.

Before going to bed I'll ask Wgeurts in the Team Topic whether he has anything about Ika/Ankamius/CES/Cheery. Although, another team mate asked for his reads so I don't know whether he'll have time for me. (Or how many pages he's read so far.)

VOTE: Ika
Reasons above.

Aneninen · Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:48 pm

Tammy, 1150 Yes, I asked that too. I mean, whether you were reading this game while were you in the other one. Yes, there were those reads but it was unclear whether they happened after merely checking in the game or after reading thoroughly.
Knowing this, the ISO was a double-check, I see.

How was that unclear for me? In our team it's only Wgeurts who's reading the other games (as far as I know) and he just started it today or so.
Also, I started reading this game when I replaced in. It's no surprise that I missed posts and thoughts and whatever, because I wanted to finish my catchup before the Deadline.

Zach: yes, that'swhy I asked for a short summary.

But now I'm going because I'm really tired.

Aneninen · Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:51 pm

Zach, I meant the summary about CES and CD. In my previousn post. What I asked.

Aneninen · Post Post #1435 (isolation #12) » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:46 pm

Ankamius-mix.

Spoiler:

But okay, here's Ankamius's 1376. (Keep in mind that yet again, he was talking ABOUT me, without talking TO me at all!)

Spoiler:

↑ Ankamius wrote:When I put weird stuff out there that is easy to attack, generally those who are most eager to jump onto it are scum.

How on Gods' Green Earth does this make sense? Townies are scumhunting, therefore they examine everything that looks strange or scummy. So, am I scum because I cared about your "weird stuff", instead of assuming instantly that "oh, he's not scum, he wants to find scum by posting that".

↑ Ankamius wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:(7) Ankamius, 238 – I forgot that he's in the game and that's not a good sign. Scumreading Llamar? A Llamar vote from CheeryDog, in 251. And Ankamius follows... 255. (Although I think he scumread him before.) And one from BBT in 284... CheeryDog jumped off in 294...

↑ Aneninen wrote:(14) Ankamius, 481 – scumreading Ika now. Either Ika's indeed scum or some scums are picking him for a later mislynch or a vote-parking. (Maybe some of them wanted to stay away from the Aeronaut-wagon...) And Ankamius voted for Llamar in his next post!!!

↑ Aneninen wrote:(10) Ankamius, 592–595 – shadowing a possible Ika-wagon. Telling that he was reading Aeronaut. Posted very little content about him later. CheeryDog pointed out something similar, I guess, in 647.

The first of which says nothing and leads nowhere that I can see.
The second of which is absurdly lazy, ignores most of my post, and tries to spin me in a scumteam with ika all at the same time.
The third is just bad. He knows I was scumreading Ika before that post, so it shouldn't be surprising at all that I'm willing to see ika hang. He also has seen me play as both town and scum and should have a general idea that being concise and not using a lot of words is how I generally go about things, so his Aeronaut point is hollow. His Cheery Dog point is pure fluff and doesn't actually say anything.

Basically, he's either overreacting to things or just posting fluff to pretend to get a read on me. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective.

As for the first thing: you're right, it lead nowhere in that form. Still, I tend to make notes on plenty of things because I think they might be important later, even if they won't. Anyone can find those posts from me anywhere.
The second thing:

"Either Ika's indeed scum or some scums are picking him for a later mislynch or a vote-parking."

– how can be this interpreted like

"tries to spin me in a scumteam with ika"

at all? (Okay, I admit that I misread your next post. You unvoted Llamar, not voted for him. It's strange that you didn't point it out...)
The third one: CheeryDog said something similar in the linked post. And he flipped town...

Also this:

↑ Aneninen wrote:

Can someone summarize the case against CES and against CheeryDog for me?

Most preferably, Zach, BBT or Antihero – they look very town and they're on either of those wagons.

He read through the whole game and has a scum read on both the wagons in some way and clearly has been reading into interactions to some extent, yet he has to ask people to summarize cases on those slots. This is especially bad with CES since from what I can tell, Anen is scumreading CES and is mainly hesitating because his teammate is shutting it down; so why is he asking for a scumcase on him and not putting reasons why he might be town in mind?[/quote]
I asked for a summary about them because the Deadline was closing and I wasn't sold entirely on either cases. Also, you were misrepresenting me: I posted that I had been unsure about CD.
As for CES, yes, Wgeurts told me that I shouldn't vote for him. It's very strange that you post about this – strange from a player who backs his read with his own mates. Also, why asking Wgeurts and asking for a summary contradicts each other?

Also, it seems that you've forgotten to talk about quite a couple of things I posted about you in my catch-ups. Eg. your 139 and 390.

TL;DR: I strongly think that Ankamius is scum and he's trying to mislynch me because he thinks that I'm an easy mislynch towards their LyLo.

VOTE: Ankamius
________

As for others.

Zach – Probably town.

See my catch-up, I liked many of his posts and there were very few questionable things. His Day3 is giving me town-vibes too.

BBT – Lean town.

What I find the most town-ish is his posting style. I've seen it a couple of times before. However, having checked Tammy's posts, she was suspecting him. I know that it's not a brutal tell but it's still there. As for the BBT/Ika interaction, I don't know what to think. See more at Ika!

Regfan – Lean town.

His posts are similar to the town-Regfan I met once before. One of the few players I've interacted with, his questions seem to be genuine, even if he doesn't like the answers. (By the way, you may find some answers for certain things in my spoilers above.) I still find it strange that there were 2 or 3 players or so "gut-reading scum" him. Maybe I miss something here?

Elk – Lean town???

He pointed out a couple of things I liked (eg. the early Ika-wagon, the Ika-BBT interaction, etc.), but having checked his ISO again I noticed that it's much emptier than I remembered.

Antihero – Unsorted? Lean Town???

I'm not sold on his obv-town-ness at all. His posting style

looks

like the same as I know, but he did just the same as Ankamius: posted his scumread on me because of my catch-up (...which was about halfway at that moment or so!!!) without giving any other reasons or

trying to interact me at all!!!

I've been involved in a town-vs-town fight with Antihero before, but in

that

case, he asked questions, made arguments, etc. ...in his "Antihero-way". But here, nothing similar has happened. He might be another player who looks for an easy lynch.

Ika

– I think I posted plenty of scummy things about him. However, many of you says that he's town. During the Night an idea came into my mind how to find out whether my scumread is right or not, but, I need a couple of RL Days for that. I'll explain it then but I'm not allowed and unable to answer until then.

CES – Lean scum?

(Regardless of Wgeurts.) The more I think about him the less confident I am about my scumread. The scummiest points are his late-Day1 and the fact that he was the counter-wagon to CD. (If Ankamius is scum, his unvote too.) But. There was that Gamestall I pointed out in my catch-up, not so long before the end of Day2. Second: he was among the very few players who started interacting with me. It's possible that a scum-CES might have found me an easy-lynch.

Ankamius – Probably scum.

See the spoilers above!

Aneninen · Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:04 pm

↑ Zachrulez wrote:I'm not even saying that I think either is scum. Just that if there is scum in CES/Reg, it's one scum and no more.
If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.

↑ Zachrulez wrote:They're positions and stances are too similar.
If they were both scum, I would expect their positions in this game to be more contrasting.

That actually makes sense.
I was thinking about something similar not so long ago. Because, I noticed this: if there are two scums and one of them is pushing me hard, the other one is usually soft-defending me. So, scums tend to "read" the game differently, maybe by instinct? However, I've never been thinking about whether the situation is the same with three or more scums alive.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I can see that. However, it's very important for scum not to get lynched in this set-up in particular.
Scum syncing up their reads makes much more sense to me to achieve this.

This is a thing which may happen from this Day, but I don't think it would be true for Day1/Day2.
No matter how experienced a scumplayer is, everyone can make something silly or could get caught by a strong townie building up a very strong case. If this happens and the scum gets lynched, not only will a scum be out of the game but also the town will gain a lot of interactive tells! This would hurt scums even more badly in this particular Setup.

(Note to self: this thought has just given me an interesting idea... I should check it later!)

↑ Zachrulez wrote:To some degree that would make sense. Like syncing up on a lynch candidate. But not to the point where your play gets close to mirroring your buddy.

Yes.
On the other hand, Parrotting is a thing that scums often do. But for some reason it remains unnoticed many times. Eg. actually I did that in my very first scum game, I even pointed it out that I'd been parrotting Nero and as far as I can remember, even the almost perfect case against me (posted by Fonz, who replaced in later) didn't include this fact.

Spoiler: Ank-, Ank-, Ank-, Ankaaaamius!

Aneninen · Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:58 pm

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Aneninen, who do you think you would've voted for Yesterday if you'd been around near deadline?

Assuming the same vote movement, if I had been here I'd have hammered CheeryDog. He wasn't among my top scumreads, but lynching a player who may be scum is still better than a NoLynch. (Plus, I hardly arrived to the recent events at that point, to tell the truth, I still missed the last couple of pages. Catching up and getting reads meanwhile is a thing but it's much easier to get reads when you're active in a game.)

If I ignore the vote movement (eg. there would have been the same amount of votes on each of you), I'd have voted for you because I thought you were scummier. (Right now I don't think it's 100% obvious that you're scum because CD flipped town. You can find my doubts in one of my recent posts.)

And of course if anyone had summarized both cases, I could have weighted up both possibilities. The same would have happened if I had more time.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Why are you spoiling your Ankamius stuff if you think he's scum?

Because of the length of my post.

________

I have some questions too.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
↑ ika wrote:
ces: why do you think tammy died of regfan like you predicted

I'm not fully sure. Ank made it clear he thought she was the better kill yesterday. But the Cheery Dog townflip changed things significantly anyway. If you want to get me mislynched, killing Tammy lets people keep pushing the Regfan-CES nonsense (which can also let you delegitimize Regfan's reads at the same time).

And you posted this earlier:

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I've been assuming Regfan for most of the Day although Tammy getting nightkilled wouldn't surprise me too at the. They're both never getting lynched (Tammy looks more unlynchable right now but either a CheeryDogscumflip or me flipping town should put most Regfan suspicion to bed anyway), have solid reads and the ability to push through lynches. It's hard to say much more than that when I don't even know how this Day will end; I'd probably still guess Regfan currently.

So. Do you think Tammy got killed because the scums want you to get mislynched?
If you were scum, whom would you have killed?

And this goes for everyone: why was it obvious that Tammy would be killed (if you think it was obvious)? Why not Zach (who's townread by everyone, if I'm correct), Regfan (predicted by CES) or Antihero (townread by everyone but me)?

Aneninen · Post Post #1454 (isolation #15) » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:43 am

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
↑ Aneninen wrote:Because of the length of my post.

That is the obvious surface level explanation, yes. But if you think Ank is scum, then you must also think that what you spoilered was *important*. I'm not really feeling a desire to push scum and get them lynched (either in this or in your comments about Yesterday's deadline situation).

How does that make sense at all? I don't want to lynch Ankamius because ...I put my case into a Spoiler? As if I had never used spoilers for long posts in any other games.
I don't get the next part as well.

Spoiler: Just to annoy you and no, it's not a pigeon

↑ Aneninen wrote:So. Do you think Tammy got killed because the scums want you to get mislynched?

Ika already asked me why I thought Tammy got nightkilled. It depends somewhat on Ank's alignment but certainly the option to paint Regfan as my buddy seems like a pretty solid reason to kill Tammy over Regfan (both in diminishing the impact of Regfan and being able to smear me).[/quote]
Walk me through your thought process how you get to 1405 from 1138.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:1440 - I would guess Tammy was killed to make me look bad. I mean, outside of someone being widely town-read, the next best reason for scum to kill someone is to try and set someone else up. That fits me perfectly right? Scum!BBT would kill Tammy for sure.

Another player who says that the Tammy Nightkill happened so as to frame him.

↑ Antihero wrote:
>well, it's not like i was scumreading your slot before or anything. nope.
>"interaction" is the latest meaningless buzzword on MS that i hope dies a fiery death really soon.
>look. look at all the "easy" lynches i got my way on so far, anen.

vote: aneninen

lynch it.

That was not even pigeon poop.
That was...

CROW POOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

(1) "Interaction" as a buzzword? La wow, you're right! Who the f-ck needs interactions at all? Let's post scumreads without talking to the player we have a scumread on!
(2) Especially when we don't even post a case at all. What was your case again? I'm scum because my reads were "shyt soup" while I was in the middle of my catch-up. (By the way, have you even checked any of the games I replaced in?) Oh yeah, and you repeated it a couple of times. Gross.
(3) I thing you must have heard it before that Buzzword is a Buzzword too. (And frankly, I've never ever heard that pointing out that scumreading someone without talking to them is a Buzzword.)
(4) Anti, I bet you remember Muskoka Mystery. You started scumreading me because of my read list. But, even doing so, you were talking to me, even before your scumread.
(5) Frankly, need I point out why I am an easy lynch in this game?
(6) Also, as for building a "case" against me, Ankamius is hard-working as all the robots from Asimov's universe compared to you. You're so lazy that you even left out something that could have strengthened your read without reading my posts at all. (And no, I'm not helping you by telling the answer for this.)

I don't know whether you're playing bad in this game for some reason or you're scum.
Why everyone has a hard townread on him at all?

Where's Elk, by the way?

Aneninen · Post Post #1467 (isolation #16) » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:16 am

↑ theelkspeaks wrote:VOTE: Ankamius
Look at the mod iso if you don't see why, just glanced through it and holy jeez.

This, and his explanation in 1459 is just as vague as Anti's case against me.

By the way, where were you at the end of Day2?

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:How does that make sense at all? I don't want to lynch Ankamius because ...I put my case into a Spoiler? As if I had never used spoilers for long posts in any other games.

If you spoiler it, people might not read it (or fail to read it again when looking back). So yes, if you want to get Ankamius lynched, I don't get why you'd hide your case behind a spoiler.

I don't think "people might not read it", especially since I wrote in the same post that details were to be found in the spoiler.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:Walk me through your thought process how you get to 1405 from 1138.

I already point out what's changed in 1405.

Yeah, because CD flipped town.
Why do you think BBT is saying the same? (Tammy was Killed so as to frame him)

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
I think it does reflect badly on me but obviously to what degree it does is fairly subjective. Although you also agreed that Cheery Dog didn't look town.

Correct, but I didn't push him as he was nowhere near the scummiest person in the game. I mean,
I'm not even saying you're scum because CD flipped town
, I'm saying if you're town you should be able to see how what your saying makes no sense with relation to my reads on ika/you because of your own reads.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
What are those further reasons?

CD being a counter-wagon to you. Clearly scum driven
. Ika's play hasn't improved one iota and he continues to ask empty questions without any follow up. His subtle attempt at fingering me for the NK was scummy as fuck as well.

Whut?
He's scum but not because of the CD-flip but because of CD being a counter-wagon?! (And these parts in the same post!)

↑ Regfan wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:However, I must point out these:
(1) He started calling me scum without interacting me at all!

I really really really really don't like this point and struggle to see it coming from town ever, how is Ank calling you mafia without him interacting with you first a scum-tell? I generally interact with my town-reads more than my scum-reads especially when it's in regards to y'know my scum-read on them; you don't need to convince scum they're scum and while conversing with them can sometimes help strengthen or break a read it's not something Ank would have been able to do much given that you were claiming to be 'catching up still'. Put it this way, you called CES scum when reading through, you hadn't interacted with him whatsoever at that point how does that differ from Ank calling you scum? I see no difference there so you pushing this as a scum-tell against him looks like pigeon poop.

You know, there's a big difference.
CES interacted with me and posted things he doesn't like, eg. the no-show at the end of the Day. (Which I've already explained.)
You posted things like "Aneninen is scummy because of Reason#1, Reason#2..."
Ankamius had posted nothing but "bad catch-up" before I posted my case against him.
Anti hasn't posted anything else besides "my catch-up is bad". (Oh no, there was that "interaction is a buzzword pigeon poop".

And you miss a serious thing. I called players scummy DURING my catchup, and I was pointing out all the time that those were my reads

at that point

– also, I told everyone that I would be able to reflect to the ongoing events (apart from the questions asked from me) as soon as I caught up.
So, there

is

a big difference.
In other words: those who were

reading

me meanwhile, only had to focus on the recent posts, including my catch-up. At the same time, I had to catch up,

and

answer your questions. (Not to mention the Team Topic too.) Which one takes more time?

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
My main problems with BBT are 1) that he seems to have outright stopped looking for scum -
if he thinks I'm scum, how does he see Ank's D2 unvote as so insignificant
;
[... – edited by me]

THAT!

BBT, what's your read on Elk now?

Aneninen · Post Post #1473 (isolation #17) » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:06 am

Anti, I need to go now but I'll answer your posts in the evening. Or at least I hope so.

Aneninen · Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:20 am

↑ Antihero wrote:
↑ Aneninen wrote:(5) Frankly, need I point out why I am an easy lynch in this game?

yes
yes you do
because, you know, remember the time you got lynched in musoka, jk9++, and c9++ even though you were scummy as all fuck in all those?
let's reminisce.

Frankly, are you scum or simply trolling around?
I've been talking about

this

game!
But okay, I'm walking you through it.
(1) Take a look at the playerlist of the whole Team Mafia. I'm not even in the Top50 experienced players!
(2) Before replacing in I hadn't heard about Team Mafia at all. (Nor the rules or whatsoever.) While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!
(3) Also, I replaced into a lurk-slot. I haven't got an idea what happened to Psycho and why he didn't do anything. (Here are some paraphrases from the Team Thread: "I don't quite understand whats going on", "grrrr mislynch", then "give me more time", "I don't wanna play"...)

Now, add these things together. What do you get? An easy mislynch.

↑ Antihero wrote:
↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:What about it makes it "clearly scum driven"?

the fact that the SAME FUCKING PEOPLE ARE DRIVING ALL THESE PUSHES THAT KEEP FLIPPING TOWN

Did you mean the CD wagon or both the CD and the Arenoaut wagon?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

1462 - Same question to you Reg, why would my scum reads change when a) I haven't been shown to be wrong yet, b) none of the reasons I think they are scum have been addressed sufficiently and c) they continue to do scummy shit making my read even stronger.

Your reads haven't been shown to be correct too.
Also, they

continue

scummy shyt. Ika has done very little Today. And I don't see why CED's Day3 posts are that shytty.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Someone show me how ika is scum hunting, just show me. Ever since I have suspected him, he OMGUS'ed me and has never looked back. Has ika been accused of having static reads? No, because it suits other peoples needs.

Who are those "other people"?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I was waiting for Anen to catch up to interact with him and he's currently engaged in a wall-off with Ank in which I have little interest in.

I caught up ages ago and you've hardly interacted with me since then, although I'm talking to both Antihero and CES, not only to Ankamius. This is not the BBT I know. Also, Ankamius is talking to Zach too, for example.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
I need to sort out elk/Ank/Anen. Ank seems town to me and elk looks the scummiest. I need to interact with Anen to get a feel for him, I can usually sniff him out pretty well if he's scum. It's a little difficult though with this wall off going on.
Anen & Elk - Can you both state your reads please?

And yes, of course, Ankamius seems to be town for you. Being away close to Deadline is not important, but it

would have been

very scummy in your eyes if Ankamius hadn't been away – or at least, my intuition says so.
Right now I strongly think that you're distancing from Ankamius. That'swhy you're unwilling to read our walls.

Reads are coming either today or tomorrow. Things are changing in my reads. (Plus, Wgeurts told me a couple of things too, although not too detailed. If anyone's interested in.)

Aneninen · Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:41 am

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Also, and this one is very easy, Reg is still alive because he's scum.
Or his reads are awful; prob scum though.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Look at that CD wagon. Think; where are the scum? Zach is town, Anti is town, Tammy has flipped,
Reg is most likely town;
that leaves ika/CES (Hint; they're both scum.)

Shouldn't you explain something here?
Because, I'm strongly thinking about this:

Spoiler:

Aneninen · Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:48 am

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:After looking over the VCs I'm going to take back my bolded scum team to avoid looking silly. All of Reg/ika/CES were on both lynches and that feels too aggressive for scum. With how late D2 played out, I would imagine they were more spread out. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong on Reg because that is based on associations which was stupid of me to do in the first place.

Yes, I've read this one. But still, even with this, wasn't that a bit too quick change on your reads?

Also, it's funny that

you

're complaining about not reading you whereas you've already admitted not reading our walls with Ankamius.

Aneninen · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:10 pm

And you've missed this line from my post:

"Now, add these things together. What do you get? An easy mislynch."

It was not an excuse at all. It was an explanation why I consider myself an easy mislynch in this game. None of those factors would be too important

in itself

, I meant them

together

.

It seems that you've also missed the fact that it was an answer for Antihero's question.

Aneninen · Post Post #1509 (isolation #22) » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:43 am

Talking to Wgeurts a bit.

He says this:

@BBT: CES is town for fudge sake get your crumpets together and get on a real scum like Ank/Zach/Ika!!!

Aneninen · Post Post #1510 (isolation #23) » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:46 am

Also, reconsidering my reads.
I'll need to go soon, so this will come later.

Aneninen · Post Post #1527 (isolation #24) » Fri May 01, 2015 1:09 am

So, here's why CES is town.

Spoiler:

Why Ika is scum.

Spoiler:

There will be more reads later.

Aneninen · Post Post #1543 (isolation #25) » Fri May 01, 2015 8:49 pm

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:– Meanwhile, CES had his own thoughts, he was following them instead of "going with the flow". This is something town should do. (Actually I was miming this as scum in some games but yes, Wgeurts may be right. CES could have joined either of the major wagons.)

No, he didn't. A few people had expressed doubt over CD because of the token issue. CES was very much 'going with the flow' of the game and joined the biggest wagon at the nearest opportunity.

Day1. First name on the CD wagon. Joining the Aeronaut wagon after expressing his reads. Second name on the CD wagon, then on the Ankamius wagon. First name on the CD wagon next. (He could have jumped on Ika, or Psyche/me while he was wagoned, by the way.) Expressing his unwillingness to vote on Day3 in 1534. Where's that "going with the flow" again?

By the way, if I'm correct, CD spent a token for scum and flipped town. Is this piece of information worth anything useful now?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:– The worst people on the Aeronaut wagon were ika, zach and elk. Elk seems to be a lynchbait thus zach and ika are scum. (He was talking about the lynch-wagon with these names: Regfan, Llamarble, CES, Tammy, Zachrulez, theelkspeaks, ika. I'm not sure whether there were two scums on that wagon. My personal thought: Ankamius joined the Ika-wagon when it was sure that it wouldn't be a real counter to Aeronaut.)

The worst on the Aero wagon is CES/ika. Elk is lynchbait? That's your reasoning for Zach and ika being scum? Nah, I don't buy that at all.

The Elk is a lynchbait was said by Wgeurts. I'd really like to see more posts from Elk, though.
I've already posted a lot about my Ika-scumread. Why are you concerned about my Ika-scumread anyway?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:– He started off the next Day by pushing his own scumreads instead of the most likely lynches. Throughout the game he's been doing this. (I noticed the same on Day3.)

You mean pushing the same scum read as what he pushed for most of D1? Apparently, static scum reads are a scum tell. What makes you think CD wasn't a likely lynch D2? Who would have been more likely?

Before VC2.18 CD never had more than 2 votes. He'd been on that wagon since VC2.12 – again, he could have jumped on the Psyche wagon to make it a counter.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:– he didn't freak out at the wagon that grew on him at some point, no survivalism. (Hmmm... that's not a big tell in itself but along with the others...)

This is weak. Someone as experienced as CES does not freak out over a couple of votes.

Appeal_to_Authority
Being experienced is not a proof for not being survivalist.

↑ ika wrote:
↑ Aneninen wrote:It's a parallel site activity so I'm not allowed to give any details, but his parallel activity doesn't add up.

This i want to hear.

We both know that we're not allowed to talk about ongoing games.
But okay, here's a fictional example. (Although a highly "overdone" example.)
I'm alive in GameA, GameB and GameC. At a certain point of time I post a wall in GameA, post nothing in GameB and post that I'm from mobile and in the middle of a party so I'll answer everything later in GameC. The post in GameC comes at 23:23 and the post at GameA comes at 23:42. Would you think that these things add up?

Can you tell me why have your posts here been different from your posts were in Matrix-14?

↑ ika wrote:does anyone else have this nagging feeling that regfan is scum right now whos doing jack shit cus nobody suspect him atm?

Checked. No parallel activity from him at all. Therefore, his absence is a null-tell.

Aneninen · Fri May 01, 2015 10:35 pm

↑ ika wrote:
well the most blatant and obvious one would be that im VT here and not an sk? and that this setup does not have a place for sk?
like if your really going to compare sk!ika to vt!ika then you have a lot to learn.
sk vs scum team are 2 very different things and i take both very differently. likewise sk vs town have 2 very different atmospheres.
so to be blunt: trying to use an SK game of mine to apply it to a game where sk can not exist in attempts to meta me is very stupid and weak.
like if you really want to knwo my self meta all you have to do is ask. i openly state what it is (based off what people put as my "meta")

That's not the point. I know that SK =/= Mafia, although there are similarities, since neither of them wins with the town.

The point is that I put my read on you on hold because I realized that Matrix 14 would end soon. Of course I didn't read the game

thoroughly

and there was a resonable chance that I'm misreading you and MonkeyMan is a trolling SK. Had you flipped town there, that would have changed a lot here. (Similar Ika-posts as town ---> probability of Ika is town and I'm misreading you. However, similar Ika-posts as SK ---> doesn't contradict my scumread on you.)

↑ ika wrote:anenin, whats your personal read on me?

I explained my scumread in my catchups, but okay, I'll recapitulate the most important things.
1077 (5) – random questioning out of early gamephase, in the middle of another conversation. (Eg. in Matrix 14 you posted such things much earlier.)
1077 (12) – posting that you want to perform a slayer's gambit is pigeon poop. (But okay, what have you achieve or what did you want to achieve by that?)
1128 (6) – that conversation is the cornerstone. You posted that BBT had been claiming scum and avoided to answer Zach's questions about it. You were urging a BBT-lynch but without voting for him. Also, what's with your hammers? Hammered twice in Matrix 14...
1128 (7) and basicly everywhere. – your constant fight with BBT, which has lead nowhere but changed shape around 878. (I'm not sure that BBT's push is genuine and you're scum or both of you are scums and faking, but the fact that noone pushed the other one

too

hard suggests me the latter one.)
Also, the fact that you appeared on the CES-wagon (...while fighting with BBT all the time), moved to BBT in 2.13 (at that time there were no other votes there), and ended up on the CD-wagon. (2.25)

↑ ika wrote:i have this odd vibe that one scum is on wagon
one scum is not voting
one scum is just off wagon entirely
VOTE: regfan
i want to lynch this cus i dont trust the 2 competing wagons given how the others haev been

Okay, according to your reads, Regfan is the "not voting" one. Who's the on-wagon and the off-wagon scum?

Aneninen · Fri May 01, 2015 10:41 pm

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
↑ Aneninen wrote:Checked. No parallel activity from him at all. Therefore, his absence is a null-tell.

If he was posting elsewhere, I would lynch him posthaste. Regfan did once just stop posting while hydraing with me as scum and I can see him being less motivated than normal as scum in this situation.

Yeah, if he were posting elsewhere, that would be a serious scumtell. (Or at least, I've already caught scum via examining paralell activity.)

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:By the way, if I'm correct, CD spent a token for scum and flipped town. Is this piece of information worth anything useful now?

If you spend a single token, there's about a 60% chance that it does nothing. Unless we think 4+ people spent scum tokens on this game, that is what happened.

So, as far as I can understand, that's a null-info now, isn't it?

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:Appeal_to_Authority
Being experienced is not a proof for not being survivalist.

1) That's not actually an appeal to authority since my experience is relevant and 2) he's obviously making a valid point.

Yet I've seen experienced players freaking whilst being scumread. (Although that can be faked too.) By "he's" in (2) did you mean BBT?

Aneninen · Fri May 01, 2015 11:06 pm

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Are you actually accusing ika based on comparing him to just a scum game of his? That's the scummiest use of meta I've seen in a long time.

No. I'll rephrase it then:
I've had a scumread on him regardless of his meta. However, because I noticed that Matrix 14 would end soon, I waited for its finish. If he had flipped town there, I would have had a bit of

town

meta on him that I can use and I would have start thinking about "what if I'm wrong?" (Actually it was you who asked this in 1130:

"I assume you haven't played any games with ika but the way you're approaching reading him is all wrong."

) Since he flipped scum there, Matrix 14 is

not

a piece of useful town-meta on him, therefore it doesn't affect significantly my original read. (As for Matrix 14, he hammered twice there, which is parallel to this game. However, he asked random questions earlier, which is not parallel.)

In short: Matrix 14 didn't weaken my original read, but it could have done so if he had been town there.

Why is Ika town?

Aneninen · Sat May 02, 2015 12:25 am

↑ ika wrote:first one:
have you looked at my town games as well? have you looked at my scum games? have you actualy tried to figure out my alignment outside of that sole game? have you actually considered asking me about my meta?

I tried to use a kind of

semi-direct

meta to sort you out in

this particular

game. According to the site rules I can't tell anything else about meta-ing you but okay, let's see the question I'll ask in this very post below!
(I'm afraid, if you two think that my attitude on this question is bad, remind me to give you an explanation post-game. Because I'm feeling that I'm doing something in the wrong way and any of you could give me some advice, but I'm not allowed to ask for advice because of ...other things. And I hope it made sense.)

↑ ika wrote:second one:

first: and its not really alignment indicative as i have done it as both town and scum
second: seeing how it never came to fruition, nothing.
third:
on bbt: i do it just cus it make the game intresting, aslo given how he did more or less the same thing in robber at casino game i find that doing the same thign to be a fun game and push him to either lose it or suck up and admit he is wrong.
on hammers: who doesnt like hammers?
final: if thats the case why are you not pushing a lynch on us? like your diconnect of who your voting vs who you think is scum is like horrendis

(1) not the questioning in itself. The fact that it came unusually late.
(2) okay.
(3) I can't see how that make sense. Can you rephrase it? What was your goal? What's been your conclusion?
(4) and what if hammering is also a WIFOM that scums can produce? I mean, "tending to hammer townies is so scummy that no actual scum would ever do it"?
(5) and also your later question. Ankamius has done nothing Today because of which I want to change my read on him. It's also possible that either you or BBT are scums with him. I'm not the only one in this game (or in any games) who's interacting with a scumread of them while voting for another scumread.

↑ ika wrote:lets play a game: if its the case who do YOU think it is?

I don't like that you've just avoided my question. In spite of this, here are my answers.
The scum on my wagon is Ankamius, the one who off-votes is BBT or you (because you said "one is off"), the not voting one is Regfan (only because the other possibility would be CES).
If I assume that Ankamius is town and I'm misreading him, the scum must be Zach (and I'm misreading him, however, he's appeared on both wagons Today), the other two names are unchanged.

And now, your answers, please!

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
↑ Aneninen wrote:If he had flipped town there, I would have had a bit of
town
meta on him that I can use and I would have start thinking about "what if I'm wrong?"

It's utterly trivial for you to find some ikatown meta and look at it.

See above!
But okay, show me a town-Ika and a Mafia-Ika, please! (I'm asking you because Ika could manipulate me by choosing his games.)

Also, as far as I can see, you're town-reading Ika because of his meta. (Am I right?)
Show me the posts why I should townread him in

this particular game

.

Aneninen · Post Post #1564 (isolation #30) » Sat May 02, 2015 9:52 pm

↑ ika wrote:

(answers for my post)

first: ???
second:
1) doesnt change that the questions are not alignment indicative
3) my goal is to give me something to do in my boardom time
4) wifom argument is full of wifom.
5) but your argument that me/bbt are both scums majory looks wrong with who your voting. like you should be pushing us no?

(edited by me)

the fact you are continuing to dodge me in such manner makes me think you know im town yet you are stawmanning to scum read me

First: what can't you understand here?!

Second:
(1) you're ignoring all the time that I'm talking about the

timing

of your questions, not the questions themselvs.
(3) you're trying to explain that you were only having fun or whatever, but you're ignoring that I've been talking about with your interactions with BBT and Zach. Those are everything but NOT trivial.
(4) you asked "Who doesn't like hammers?" I said "hammering is a WIFOM that scums can produce" and you answered "WIFOM argument is full of WIFOM" – Whut?!

As for your meta. I randomly picked these:
Micro 411 (town-Ika) – a bit more funny-Ika than here, the posting style is similar, although maybe a bit longer posts towards Ika's lynch (maybe irrelevant?)
Mini Theme 1629 (scum-Ika) – maybe a bit more funny-Ika than here, but the posting style and the amount of useful info is roughtly the same.
(I'll examine this game for BBT too, because he also was scum there.)

That didn't help me a lot, although these metas are telling that you can do the same as town and as scum.
But I

still

don't understand why I should consider you town in

this particular

game. (Where have I strawman-ed, by the way?) Your ISO

here

is full of scummy pigeon poop. I've posted a lot about it but here are a few more examples.

– In early game you were scumreading Elk. But where is your vote? Nowhere!!! (And you're FoS-ing me because I'm voting for someone else while interacting with you? WTF!)
– I've just checked a search for the string "aero" in your ISO. Eight results. EIGHT! Five in quotes from other players. Two (misspelled) are your votes. (One is a double-quote on your vote.) So, you hammered a player on whom you didn't post anything. You even unvoted him once so as to hammer later. I really don't understand WHY anyone finds this town-ish! (Especially since Aero expressed that because of being away he might post more later... well, that never could happen.)
– in 754 you voted for CES. Yet again, where's the case? As far as I can see, that's the FOURTH time the "CES" string appears in your ISO. It seems you're just going for a lynch, regardless of anything.

Frankly, need I go on with this?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ika

I still think Ankamius is scum too but now I really would like everyone to consider these things I've posted. I'll examine BBT next. (Regardless of Wgeurts's opinion.)

Aneninen · Sat May 02, 2015 11:50 pm

↑ ika wrote:
1) well then there not much i can say i dont care to look at timing of shit. the timing is moot to me
3) ok so? like my interatcions with bbt as i have stated are also form a past game. zachs interactions are more or less me interacting with someone who i think is town? otherwise i dunno whatline of question you are questionign me on
4) yup, i can link you more town games of where i do it then scum games of i do it. Your entire point is pretty much WFIOM by your own admission no?

i think the fact that theres a major diffrence in /how/ i go about it. yes about 99% of the things i do are non-alingment indicative but either:
A) your missing the point of what makes me town and scum at most times
B) your just horribale at metaing me and fail to realzize it

on elk: does each suspicion have to be backed by a vote? am i just allowed to be annoyign and call someon scummy w/o stating crap?
on areo: welcome to day fucking 1, on day 1s i can give less shit about who gets lynched then i care for
on CES: have you seen me as either alignment make cases or really give out reason? cus unless if you reallyhave proper evidence to back it thats a faulty reason. i dont do cases, i dont do shit. i jsut dont give fucks

(1) You're right about one thing. That's not a brutal tell

in itself

. But it's still there. Whether you call it moot or not.
(3) I still don't understand why I should townread you because of your interactions with BBT and Zach.

You're telling that I'm horrible at meta-ing players. So, you're town because I'm horrible at meta-ing.

Who's strawmaning the other one then?!

On Elk. No, you needn't back every suspicion with a vote. But, again, take this. You call someone scum without voting him (in fact, without voting at all) and noone bats an eye. I call you scum while voting for Ankamius (who's another scumread) and everybody loses their minds. How on Gods' Green Earth does that make sense?

On Aero. I'm re-quoting you here:

"welcome to day fucking 1, on day 1s i can give less shit about who gets lynched then i care for"

Again. Why. Anyone. Thinks. That. Ika. Is. Town. IN. THIS. PARTICULAR. GAME. ?.

As for your reasoning about CES. See the gif and my answer above!

↑ ika wrote:yes you could go on cus if this is wgrt stating im scum i want you to tell him to kindly STFU and learn to properly meta someone and do you own work.

The first part was gross indeed. Wgeurts-reasons are don't count, as for your case, do they?

↑ ika wrote:
however i would be glad to get lynched here. ive been needing to swap with players

And this is AtE at best.

________

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
↑ Aneninen wrote:(Especially since Aero expressed that because of being away he might post more later... well, that never could happen.)

Do you really believe this, Anen?

Yes.
I've already seen scums shutting down a Day so as to prevent someone from posting.
Check out Aeronaut's last post. He asked for more time and promised that he would post more later.

Also, CES.
I've got a feeling that you're doubtful about everything I post. I think it's because you've wanted to sort out this slot but – maybe becasue of Pshyche? – you've been thinking all the time that I must be scum. Am I right? If so, put that prejudice away for a short while and examine my reads again.

Aneninen · Sun May 03, 2015 12:09 am

I can easily imagine a scum hammering a townie before they post their detailed reads.

Aneninen · Post Post #1574 (isolation #33) » Sun May 03, 2015 3:51 am

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ ika wrote:so far my lynch pool is currently compiled of CES/regfan

This is classic scum. FOS buddy (CES) vote town (Regfan)

Let me remind everyone of the full post:

↑ ika wrote:so far my lynch pool is currently compiled of CES/regfan
i would do BBT for lolz but anyone else atm i have no intrest in

I wonder who's the buddy then.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
↑ Aneninen wrote:I can easily imagine a scum hammering a townie before they post their detailed reads.

By writing "scum" instead of "ikascum" and "a townie" rather than "Aeronaut", you're hiding behind generalities. I literally asked you to try and apply your theoretical point to the actual game. I would've expected ika to hammer regardless of his alignment and I don't think Aeronaut's reads would've made a meaningful impact given his posting history this game.

So, are you saying that I should think that it's NOT an alignment tell about Ika that he voted, unvoted and hammered a player he hadn't been talking about before?
Why do you think that Aeronaut wouldn't have posted anything useful later?
Also, it seems that whenever I post about Ika you grab a piece out of my case so as to explain me that I'm wrong. His hammer is not the

only

thing why I have a scumread on him.
But, I'm asking you once again: show me the town motivation behind Ika's posts.

Aneninen · Post Post #1576 (isolation #34) » Sun May 03, 2015 4:16 am

Happy Birtday, Ika!
As a matter of fact, I'll be away for the rest of the day too.

Aneninen · Mon May 04, 2015 11:05 am

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
No, it was blindingly obvious that Aeronaut was getting lynched. Like I expressed at the time, I felt people were taking too long to fall in line rather than there being any grand opportunism. And Aeronaut hadn't posted anything useful up to that point and didn't seem to be caught up.

Maybe it felt differently in real time, but I hadn't got the same felling while catching-up. (I mean the "obvious that Aeronaut was getting lynched" part)

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
I imagine you can write most of the things you pointed out about ika in most games ika plays. When I read his posts, his tone reads quite genuine and when he has talked to me, it's just generally felt like there was town motivation behind it (e.g. 946 and 953). So my main interest in your ikacase have been the bits where you've felt the scummiest.

What's the town motivation behind 946 and 953?
Yet again, your basic point why my Ika-read is bad is the fact that you're scumreading me. Isn't that a bit biased? Don't you have any other scumreads, by the way?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Aneninen wrote:

↑ ika wrote:so far my lynch pool is currently compiled of CES/regfan
i would do BBT for lolz but anyone else atm i have no intrest in

I wonder who's the buddy then.

Who do you think?

Ankamius and you. However...

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
VOTE: ika

I don't like this vote.
Something is not right here and I don't know what it is.
UNVOTE:

↑ ika wrote:
i find it more irnoic you are voting with him

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Yeah, I mean,
do I like your wagon composition right now? No.

Do I want you lynched? Yes. Very badly.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:If you can show me ika is town this game, not based on meta,
I'll join the Anen wagon because it's town as fuck.

Uhh, WHUT?

Antihero, 1622 and around. (I'm not quoting it because of its length)
You're ignoring that I've already explained why I used Ika's SK game (and I did NOT use it for getting a scumread on him). I've explained too that hammering is not a scumtell in itself, but it's not a towntell as well. My case has never consisted of these two things alone.
Also, I'm asking the same thing from you I asked from CES before: show me the town-posts from Ika in THIS game. (Instead of explaining the number of his posts in other games.) If that happens, I may reconsider a couple of things.

Aneninen · Mon May 04, 2015 11:31 am

Which one do you think town-on-town?

Aneninen · Post Post #1636 (isolation #37) » Mon May 04, 2015 9:20 pm

↑ ika wrote:im also going to point out how BBt is basicly removing any blame from being on my wagon when i flip town based off what hes stating.

Yes, I've noticed it too.
Being on your wagon is okay for him, even if he doesn't like the company.
However, he'd join my wagon because he'd like the company.
Both of them would be perfect excuses whichever lynch happened.

↑ Zachrulez wrote:You're the 2nd counterwagon which has been heavily pushed by the same two guys that pushed the previous counter wagon to anen, with anen setting up a push for BBT.
I don't think that points to Anen town...

I haven't got the slightest idea why Elk has been following me all the time, but, basically, do you think that Ankamius and Ika are town just because I was voting for them?

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:946 is at a time when I was the biggest wagon and he clearly tries to communicate his view of the game and make me see things in a different light. 953 is encouraging me to do something which he considers to be pro-town.¹

I don't get how you get that second bit out of what I wrote. I'm not interested in your ikacase from the perspective of "is ika scum?" because I think the case is boring and I think ika is town independently, so my only interest in your ikacase is from the perspective of "is aneninen scum?".²

If I didn't have other scum reads, Anen, I'd be voting you. If Regfan finally shows up, hopefully he'll restore my town read on him and the two of us can hash things out.³

(1) Okay, let's say you're right. In this case, I don't understand why you don't suspect anyone who's been on my wagon Today for ages without communicating me at all.
(2) I wouldn't call my case against Ika boring. I've posted a lot more about him than certain players posted about their scumreads. Is it possible that I'm wrong about him? Yes, it is. Antihero's "Ika is town because scum-Ika isn't like this" is pigeon poop. (If I posted a reasoning like that, I'd get lynched instantly because of it, wouldn't I?) Your read is a thing I care more, on the other hand. But I'm still not sold on a town-Ika.
(3) Who are your other scumreads now? Have your reads changed since the Day started?

Aneninen · Mon May 04, 2015 10:05 pm

I've been thinking.

If I'm wrong about Ika, BBT must be scum.

(1) I've re-checked Mini #1629 again and indeed, the BBT-Ika interaction was entirely different there.
(2) In general, BBT looks like the town-BBT I know, but his interactions with me are not the same. I know it's a gut-read but it's still there.
(3) He started the Day with pushing the CES-wagon, hoping that as a previous counterwagon he might be an easy lynch. Maybe he hoped that I'd join the case too?
(4) As he saw that the CES-wagon wouldn't go anywhere, simply jumped on the Ika-wagon. He doesn't care that he doesn't like the other names there. However, he DOES care that the players on my wagon are town. If the Day ended with an Ika-lynch, he'd say "and that wagon was clearly scum-driven then!" If the Day ended with an Aneninen-lynch, he'd say "I only joined because that looked like a town wagon on a scum!"
(5) By the way, he's been townreading Ankamius, who I think is scum too, all the time.
(6) Also, he's scumreading Elk but never votes him.

There will be more if needed.

VOTE: BBT

Aneninen · Mon May 04, 2015 10:34 pm

Who, Ika?

Aneninen · Tue May 05, 2015 10:37 am

Catching-up.

Aneninen · Tue May 05, 2015 11:26 am

↑ ika wrote:annen who do you think will be killed tonight and why?
(and yes there is a reason for asking this very scummy question but i want you to do it before i tell you)

Antihero or Zach, I suppose. Because those lynches would never happen.

↑ Regfan wrote:
@Anen
- The fact that you called players scummy during your catch up and stated that your reads can change with more information is irrelevant, the fact is you CAN have a scum-read on someone without interacting on them so you pushing Ank saying his scum read on your slot isn't possible since he hasn't spoken with you (Something that again would be hard for him to do given you've just arrived at the time) makes no sense whatsoever.¹ I don't get your flip from Ika to BBT in Post 1637 at all, your "if I'm wrong on Ika BBT must be scum"² a) What exactly changed your mind re; on Ika to think you might be wrong on him b) Why is BBT not voting Elk a scum-tell given that everyone has multiple scum-reads and it's impossible to vote them all c) Others in the game have been town reading your scum-reads, why is that not reasoning for nearly everyone in the game to be scum?³ Also do me a favour and post a list (with reasoning if possible) of your current reads since your reads kind of seem to be flipping every post and I'm not following the changes or progression of the reads.⁴

(1) Oh, really? Noone seemed to have problems with Anti, Zach and Ankamius scumreading me without interacting me or providing a viable case. Read back and check it. So, who looks scummy now?

(2) Most players are townreading Ika. I was thinking, "what if I'm wrong"? If so, the whole Ika/BBT interaction should be read in a different way. (When both of them were scums, they were mostly distancing each other, therefore it's not likely that both of them are scums.) Therefore, plus adding that BBT's Day3 seems to be very different from his play I know, the logical assumption is he's scum. (His previous gameplay looked more town-BBT-ish, but catching up and being in the game when the posts are arriving are two different things.)

(3) What sort of pigeon poop is that? I'm telling you. A Regardless Of Card-type pigeon poop. Had I scumread everyone who disagrees with me, I would have called scum because of that. Actually no matter what I'm doing, it's scummy in the eyes of plenty of players.

(4) After I've caught up.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
↑ Regfan wrote:So yeah, what am I missing; why do you think Anen-BBT or Anen-Ank work as a team and can you think of anyone that works as a third in an Anen-Elk scum-team?

I felt Anen and BBT were playing pretty nice to each other Today up until Anen's recent BBTvote. I think scum should have much clearer motivations, so that's what I feel is most informative w.r.t. interactions.
But I'm leaning towards BBT-elk-Ank right now.
Do you agree with my reasoning on the ikawagon?

And that's a very possible team. Unless one of the "super-town-looking-regardless-of-carding" is scum too. Namely, Antihero, Zach or Regfan.

↑ Antihero wrote:ok, if that's how it's gonna' be.
VOTE: regfan

ika, zach, this is a call to arms

↑ Antihero wrote:tth just threatened to kick me in the nuts so
VOTE: aneninen
seriously, this slot is flipping scum
i'll go requote posts later this morning

Yeahf-ckthatshyt.

After you've run out of reasons

wait-oh, you've never had real reasons apart from "Aneninen is scum because of he's scum". Nevertheless, now you have a TTH-read on your side. (Needless to say, another read without details.)

Frankly, why the rusty monkey wrench left in the creek are you all townreading him?!

↑ Regfan wrote:Also didn't like his whole "I'm an easy lynch" in Post 1454 to suggest people pushing him are mafia and again in Post 1485 ignores the fact that people had a scum-read on his slot before he even replaced in so him using that as reason to suspect Anti reads more as de-crediting.

Have you ever seen a player with lurky-and-or-scummy posts replacing out? This reason will be sooo awkward after I flip town.

↑ Regfan wrote:
Initial reaction when reading the whole "Wgeurts reads and reasons" in Post 1527 was the team effort into the game was a town-tell but remember Empire telling me that Wguerts GTKAS stated he prefered scum which nullifies that point. The way he's using his reads to suggest his other reads are right re; wagon analysis there reads as circular reasoning and his "Elk is lynchbait" copying of Anks statement to excuse Ek from his vote placements don't read as genuine (Actually can kind of see an Elk/Ank/Anen team coming from this). The attempt to meta Ika from here to a SK game of him similarly doesn't make sense (SK and mafia are very very different, if anything SK is more similar to town than mafia in that there's no partners).

What the lithium fork have you tried to say in the first part?
Plus, I have already explained why I examined that SK-game about Ika. Need I explain this over and over for every single player?

↑ Regfan wrote:
Yeah okay combined all that with the fact that I think that the quotes in Post 1180 make much more sense coming from scum lying about team comments mean I'm likely voting Anen here. We got time though so I'll carve some more time tomorrow to get to the other three but consider my vote effectively on Anen here.

What if you will stop shadowing my wagon and start scumhunting? All of your reads seem to be based upon the assumption that I'm scum.

↑ Zachrulez wrote:UNVOTE:
I guess.
VOTE: Aneninen

Gross. Another player unvoting me, voting for Regfan and revoting me a couple of posts later. And both Zach and Anti are strong-townreads according to most players.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:and exactly what I was hoping for when I voted ika. I thought ika was being bussed and I just couldn't see a situation where both Anen and elk were town.

I don't see scum bussing toDay. They don't need to, they're in a good position. As it happens, as soon as the ika wagon actually starts to take off, Anen gets off it in a flash with really weak reasoning.

I think it's Anen/CES/ika.

VOTE: Anen

WHUT?
You voted for Ika so as to see what happens? Not because you've been... scumreading him all the time? That's pigeon poop.
Aaaaaaaaand, obviously, you just ended up on the major wagon instantly. And of course, it's not OMGUS. Had I done the same, THAT would have been OMGUS, wouldn't it?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
1) LOLOLOLOLOL - you've 'rechecked' the meta. Are you actually saying this right now? The interaction is now 'entirely' different. Please.
2) My interactions with you are not the same? Can you elaborate on this instead of 'gut' because that's bullshit.
3) You're right, everyone clearly wants to lynch CES. It would have been just fantastic if CES was the lynch; I'll happily settle for you though.
4) Yeah, I haven't pushed ika at all, you're right. I have no business being on that wagon. Well, no business other than catching scum.

(1) Explained above.
(2) It's way not the same and I know why. You've been involved in a long fight with Ika and you didn't want to get another player on your flank.
(3) That's just WTF?!
(4) Or that was a possible counter-wagon to Ankamius, after your CES-push had been worth nothing. But now, hurray, you've found the perfect mislynch.[/quote]

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Looks like you'll have time.
Your buddy disappeared instead of being a man and hammering you.

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Also, are you scared that I have time?

Aneninen · Post Post #2239 (isolation #42) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:23 am

Thanks everyone for playing, Equinox for modding, and obviously, thanks for my scumteam! ^_^

I've learnt a lot from this game.

First of all, the mistake I made was the following: I wrote posts that gave

me

or for

townies in general

town-vibes, but I should have made posts gave

this particular town

town-vibes.
Also, by the time I replaced in there had been quite a lot of un-lynchable obv-town players. There were simply not enough suspects.

But, I think, for me it was more about the ego than about how well I played.
I mean, who the f-ck would be happy if they replaced into a game only to get caught and lynched a Day later?
But, after a while I realized that if we were to push through a mislynch, we'd never win. I wouldn't have survived Day4 and either BBT or Regfan (or both) could have been caught easily after that. So, going down was a better plan than staying alive.
So yes, my lynch was carefully planned both by my buddies and by my team too. I hoped that everyone would believe that I was flailing and pushing whatever wagons randomly... and it seems it worked. Elk was frame-able easily, CES came later as an idea. I wanted to frame Ika too. If Regfan had had hammered me (who had been scumreading me all the time), it would have been even better, but eh.
I was reading and Regfan's vote for BBT at LyLo was like wow! I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw CES getting lynched while Regfan was still voting for BBT...

Thanks again, everyone!

See you soon in another Mafia near you! ^_^