Open 598: GAME OVER

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Persivul

[Green Crayons]

Crayons, not Canyons.

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: Persivul
VOTE: lane

[Green Crayons]

The "three votes in rapid succession" entrance reads like a forced attempt to not look rigid and scummy, but fluid and townie.

[Green Crayons]

four votes*

[Green Crayons]

@green canyons, who are you quoting? you look like a forced attempt at scum hunting and not actually scum hunting.

Crayons.

What do you mean who am I quoting? I am not quoting anyone.

[Green Crayons]

I find green funyuns acceptable, and will respond accordingly.

[Green Crayons]

Oh, that wasn't an actual quotation. The quotation marks were to house the characterization of your entrance.

[Green Crayons]

@Newbie:

if you accept that lane thinks both ika and YGS are suspicious, but not necessarily buddies, why are you having a problem with lane voting YGS and simply vocally supporting ika votes (what actually happened) rather than voting ika and vocally supporting YGS votes (what you appear to be suggesting to be the non-suspicious thing to do)?

p-edit:

@YGS:

you can answer this too.

[Green Crayons]

p-edit:

@YGS:

you can answer this too.

Lane, if you thought both us and ika were scum, why would you not vote for the bigger wagon?

Why compliment wagon on player you're scum reading and then vote elsewhere?

It makes no sense.

Lane was scum reading both slots, that's a little stronger than the 'suspicion' you're trying to imply.

???

I used the word "suspicion" as interchangeable with "scummy."

The question I asked still stands.

[Green Crayons]

@Newbie:

It looks like scum knowing what ika will flip. If ika flips town, then lane can get town cred by not being on the lynch. If ika flips scum, then he can try and get town cred by saying he acknowledged that the lynch was solid.

This theory doesn't really match up with lane's play, though.

lane doesn't get any credit for a ika-town flip, as lane was cheerleading the ika wagon from the sidelines.

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: lane
VOTE: YGS

You're being completely non-responsive to my question, and instead are focusing on whether I used the word "suspicion" or "scummy" when they both mean the same damned thing. Which we appear to agree upon, but you nonetheless ignore the whole point of my question (of why, between two scum reads, it was suspicious for lane to vote one over the other).

[Green Crayons]

Hah, fair enough.

[Green Crayons]

@BB:

I sign up 100% with your plan.

I also unilaterally appoint you to match up the players who are to target other players.

[Green Crayons]

Oh wait I just read the part where we no lynch today.

Ew gross. Do we have to?

[Green Crayons]

@YGS:

1.

I answered your bad question. You're either not reading or 'see above'.

You can be suspicious of somebody without thinking they're scum. This is obvious. I feel you should know this.

This head of yours continues to be suspicious and obtuse.

You see that bolded part?

It's beside the entire point of the question I'm asking.

You keep focusing on "suspicious v. scummy" as if that's something that actually matters.

Congrats, I'm not moving my vote for the time being. Stop making issues out of things that aren't even issues in order to avoid answering a pretty simple question.

2.

@ GC: 'if you accept that lane thinks both ika and YGS are suspicious, but not necessarily buddies, why are you having a problem with lane voting YGS and simply vocally supporting ika votes (what actually happened) rather than voting ika and vocally supporting YGS votes (what you appear to be suggesting to be the non-suspicious thing to do)?'

I think you are asking why we have a problem with why lane's vote is bad WHILE he is scum-reading our slot? I think the question I just asked him explains that: he's not really established a reason behind his read on us, but would rather scum-read us than see our vote as town voting ika for the same reasons he 'suspects' them. Seems like he's reaching. Does that answer your question?

At least this head is attempting.

You're still not getting the point of my question.

And I find it pretty hard to believe that my question was obtuse, as Newbie answered it perfectly fine.

Here, let me rephrase by quoting you:

Lane, if you thought both us and ika were scum, why would you not vote for the bigger wagon?

Why compliment wagon on player you're scum reading and then vote elsewhere?

It makes no sense.

In Post 34, lane voiced support of ika wagon and voted YGS.

YES, LET'S ACCEPT THAT THIS IS LANE SAYING THAT HE THINKS BOTH IKA AND YGS ARE SCUM AND/OR SUSPICIOUS. (Jesus I can't believe I'm tying that again.)

HERE'S THE QUESTION: Why is lane voting YGS and voicing support of the ika wagon vote worthy if lane thinks

both

YGS and ika are scum? What's wrong with voting YGS-scum over ika-scum if lane thinks that both are scum?

[Green Crayons]

Well, I'm reread and rethinking 94 and I guess it does answer my question.

[Green Crayons]

But fuck talk about pulling teeth.

[Green Crayons]

Are you asking me w/r/t sthar?

I agree with BB.

[Green Crayons]

92 - Quick note on the attempt at game breaking; can we not do that?

Thanks.

Game breaking is finding a method in which to break the game; i.e we don't actually have to scum hunt/play mafia (which funnily enough is why I join games) because there is an optimal way of playing that ends the game without actually doing anything.

This is anti-town posting: finding an optimal town strategy for night actions is not "breaking" the game. Particularly when there are potential issues with the optimal strategy that both BB and ika have pointed out.

This is also pro-scum posting: pushing against a strategy that optimizes a town's night action on the basis that it's somehow antithetical to the "core" of what mafia is. By this logic, town shouldn't use PRs because with PRs town "don't actually have to scum hunt/play mafia"



Vote stays.

Busy busy at work so only skimming, but this caught my attention and required a shout out.

[Green Crayons]

Your response to everything is "this could theoretically apply to town and therefore this is not a Real Scum Suspicion."

Congrats, you're unhelpful.

[Green Crayons]

PEdit - @GC - That is so fucking weak. Because I want to enjoy playing the game it makes me scum? That is quite possibly the worst shit I have ever read in my life.

PR's are different when everybody doesn't know what everybody else is doing. That comes down to the individual player, not the whole group working out how to break the game.

For example, I recently finished an Open where all we had to do was protect the tracker while she searched for movement in VT's to win game. That's not mafia, it's fucking boring.

Boo hoo it's boring.

Get a new/fix the setup if the setup is boring because town can attempt to come together and try to strategize night actions.

Pushing for less than optimal town play because it's boring is anti-town, pro-scum.

[Green Crayons]

town shouldn't tell doctor to protect cop because BORING

[Green Crayons]

I'm taking your bad argument to it's logical conclusion.

[Green Crayons]

its

[Green Crayons]

Also lol @ BB's strategy "breaking" the game.

Pretty sure it isn't foolproof.

So isn't game breaking.

Hyperbole. Stop it.

[Green Crayons]

137/138 - This feels off. Are you seriously saying you read BB's plan, agreed with it, posted that you agreed with it, then went back to read THE EXACT SAME POST AGAIN, only this time noticing the no lynch part?

Like, I could see this if BB made two separate posts but it was all in one post.

This looks like a very weak attempt at some sort of town cred (scum going along with a plan that is made to catch scum) and then finding a reason not to shortly after. I would expect better from you as scum but I can't pretend this doesn't exist. I don't like it.

I read BB's plan when it was initially presented, posted, read the next page, saw the no lynch, posted again.

[Green Crayons]

The plan and the no lynch was in two separate posts.

Unlike what you say in 258.

[Green Crayons]

Hey I haven't read anything but

I believe optimal strategy is to plan out our visits tonight and to have two players visiting different people.

Player A and B visits Player X
Player C and D visits Player Y
Player E and F visits Player Z
Player G and H visits Player ?
Player I and J visits Player !

This prevents PGOs from activating without confirming them as scum and allows cop to get reports relatively safely.

It also may be optimal to no lynch and then do that twice?

If we want to go with my plan we need to no lynch. If things go wrong, 3 people could die (1 by NK, 2 by PGO) and we need to have that mislynch we get from having 7p in the case of that happening.

[Green Crayons]

Oh there's a mention of no lynch in 92, but I didn't see it because lol @ reading a whole post about night strategy.

[Green Crayons]

Oh there's a mention of no lynch in 92, but I didn't see it because lol @ reading a whole post about night strategy.

A bloo bloo

You either believe me or you don't.

[Green Crayons]

I don't.

And I don't care.

[Green Crayons]

@gc, see? Other people call out crap arguments when they can be applied the exact same elsewhere. I guess it's just how one views what's going on at the time

I understand what you are doing.

But I don't think your point holds for a lot of the times you're making it.

[Green Crayons]

I am really busy for 3 days but it shouldnt be a problem. will read up really soon (and i will have limitless free time !)

This is scum?

[Green Crayons]

It's null to me.

Unless if he is posting elsewhere on the site?

POE makes sense though.

[Green Crayons]

GC if you were to pick the scum team who would it be right now?

YGS: BBT-head (is that really him?) is acting SUPER WEIRD for all reasons I have stated in thread. Not like the BBT-scum I have played with, but also not like the BBT-town I have played with. Also this isn't a personality clash, because BBT and I get along just fine, so something is very much up. (pre-post edit: maybe this is what BBT-town acts like if he thinks GC is scum? my god that's frustrating.) Bella seems much more reasonable, if I were to assume that she has to believe that BBT-head is town, which I hate because ugh goddammit just make me warm and comfortable with my scum read.

uhhhh, POE after that.

Jeanne11 is comical "failed to pick up PM" scum.

I don't see anything scummy OR SUSPICIOUS OH MY GOD EQUATING THE TWO?!?? about lane's, Newbie's, or BB's play, and affirmatively think that there has been town play from each (in descending order of strength of reads).

I can't read ika. At least not atm.

sthar could be lazy scum.
ZZZX could be IRL busy scum.
Persivul I thought was town for the first half of what game there is, but after that he's been saying things that don't really get me feeling rad.

[Green Crayons]

Ah so you are going to take the "this is how I play when I read you as scum" out to explain away your weirdness.

w/r/t "suspicion v. scummy," Are you referring to Post 215? That's a weaksauce after-the-fact explanation of why, instead of simply answering my question (like Newbie did very easily), you instead go "WHOA LET'S USE THE WORD SCUMMY NOT SUSPICIOUS" as if that was relevant at all.

[Green Crayons]

I'm not good at reading ika, but I don't care for his buddying of me.

[Green Crayons]

GC, gun to head am i town or scum?

At the moment? Town.

I just get antsy when I see buddying.

[Green Crayons]

I'm trying to do a reread from page 8 tonight.

Will post stuff later.

[Green Crayons]

@BB:

in the meantime got any reads?

GC town, Lane town, Newbie is scummy, YGS is town

mainly

I came to the opposite conclusion w/r/t Newbie and YGS from the same set of posts (everything up to page 8). Why your reads on those two?

[Green Crayons]

Okay.

So if not Newbie, who?

[Green Crayons]

"not Newbie" as in not lynch material atm.

I don't care if you keep reading them as scummy.

[Green Crayons]

@Persivul:

YGS's Persivul suspicions are credited.

Also Persivul's Post 271 is a muddle. Post 281 and Post 283 is an equally confusing follow up. Like, Persivul is reaching to attack his voter kind of muddle.

Ugh. I don't like anything on Page 12.

-----

@YGS:

- YGS's interaction with ika is bad.

Spoiler: oh god I couldn't help myself

@GC, you say in post 246 this attitude is scummy, but you realise that it's not just the YGS slot that feels that way? Why is this only a problem for our slot?

Because you pushed it first.

I don't mind the fact you missed it. I can even believe it. What is scummy is how you tried to paint us in a bad light for it, without checking yourself first.

This might be a thing if I didn't immediately undercut that "painting <you> in a bad light for it."

It's null to me.

Unless if he is posting elsewhere on the site?

POE makes sense though.

Fence sit more...

I can't even figure out how you could construe me as fencesitting.

It's like you're just taking scum accusation terminology and just throwing it around because it sounds good.

-----

@Newbie:

I also completely agree abut GC. They seemed to be laying it on a little too hard when accepting the plan.

I'm still 100% down with the plan. None of ika's problems really bothered me now that I actually read through the ika/BB exchange.

-----

Feeling better about ika, but I do not feel confident in my ability to evaluate his type of player.

[Green Crayons]

@BB:

a Page 9 post?

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: YGS
VOTE: Persivul

I think his 180 on the BBmolla plan is also iffy, as well as his mix of knowing what is going on + "I'm newbie so help me out here"

[Green Crayons]

Your plan still holds up if we simply start it a night other than N1, yeah?

[Green Crayons]

It might be optimal pre-LYLO plan when town sometimes NL anyways?

I don't know specific circumstances when that occurs, just know that it occurs sometimes.

[Green Crayons]

Oh Yeah.

Grinding people down with fatigue.

/shades

[Green Crayons]

gonna' end up being a poe read. i kind of started skimming over his posts on my first once-over and

i don't really want to bother since last game was so wearing.

Responding to this.

[Green Crayons]

That hurts.

[Green Crayons]

Agreed about pretty small lynch pool though.

[Green Crayons]

YGS, for reasons stated
Persiv, for reasons stated
Newbie, because BB and Anti said so

[Green Crayons]

I'm POE.

ika, you're breaking my heart.

[Green Crayons]

YGS and Persiv unlikely scumpair based off of YGS push on Persiv (unless WIFOM bus but don't think so) so preference lynch out of those two

[Green Crayons]

@ gc, Okay, so it's just a pot shot back? Or do you think there's intent behind it?

-Bellaphant

???

My response was making light of the fact that the last time Anti and I played together, he read me wrong and I got butthurt. Where's the pot shot?

No idea what you're asking in the second question.

[Green Crayons]

@ika:

perseus has a really sledge-hammerish, black-and-white,

newbtown

newbscum

approach to the game that i pick up on gut feel

I basically came to the opposite conclusion as Anti on the same factual basis.

[Green Crayons]

That sounds like something I should remember, but honestly I don't remember swag at all.

[Green Crayons]

Well are we YGSing or Newbieing?

[Green Crayons]

Shush, you.

[Green Crayons]

Oh, well I don't think Persiv is posting like that, and looks much more like clunky attempts at manipulation/accusations.

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: Persiv
VOTE: Newbie

[Green Crayons]

Yeah I switched my read on Newbie because DUN DUN DUN the thread changed.

[Green Crayons]

lol I don't even know if I personally feel differently about Newbie's play, more like I trust BB's and Anti's judgment.

[Green Crayons]

Jeanne11 is comical "failed to pick up PM" scum.
^^^^that's a pretty shitty reason to scumread a slot

uhhhh, POE after that.

[Green Crayons]

Like, everything is one-liners after POE.

[Green Crayons]

Also, "running away from scum role" is not shitty?

[Green Crayons]

Oh wow you mean I should have done homework if I was really going to push that scum read?

[Green Crayons]

Kind of like

I was shooting from the hip in the entire POE part of that post?

[Green Crayons]

What do you think of Persiv, Newbie?

[Green Crayons]

Oh lol you're voting him.

Why?

[Green Crayons]

I think Anti is playing pretty solid, but I can see why you might think differently.

[Green Crayons]

Meh. I immediately ISO'd you as soon as I asked what you thought of Persiv, and just word searched "Persiv" in your ISO which got me to your Persiv vote. I happened to skip over your vote on me (I think I was searching backwards), but obviously I was aware of it when you did it like an hour ago.

[Green Crayons]

So why do you think Persiv is scum?

[Green Crayons]

gc's surliness is (once again) making this a fucking headache

For a self proclaimed asshole, you whine about other assholes way too much.

[Green Crayons]

@Persivul:

YGS's Persivul suspicions are credited.

Also Persivul's Post 271 is a muddle. Post 281 and Post 283 is an equally confusing follow up. Like, Persivul is reaching to attack his voter kind of muddle.

Ugh. I don't like anything on Page 12.

@GC Can you explain this Persivul read a little more?

Sure. Let me review and see if I can better put my finger on what it is that I don't like about those posts.

[Green Crayons]

@Newbie:

1.

YGS's Persivul suspicions are credited.

Spoiler: these posts

Alright, I'm rereading.

Something feels off here; Persivul votes ika (it looks like another RVS vote?)

VOTE: ika

I presume our mayor was just murdered or some such...and you just want to chat around the fire?

Then, Newbie questions him about jumping on the ika wagon;

^
What compelled you to jump on the wagon?

Without responding to Newbie, Persivul quietly jumps back off the ika wagon (with another RVS vote?);

Damn lurkers

VOTE: sthar8

Hey green funyuns, who were you quoting?!?

32 - Lane, here you vote GC for 'forced attempts at scum hunting'.

34 - Yet here, you compliment the ika wagon and vote us.

Was your original vote on GC a serious one? If it was, what did we do that was so scummy to make you change your vote?

100 - Another bad vote from Persivul. That's four so far.

104 - Molla, I disagree on Newbie. I can understand his push and the motivations behind it.

107 - Lane, given you think wagon hopping is scummy, what is your read on Persivul?

109 - Persivul, what makes you think that an early wagon will lead to a lynch? Do you suggest we have a page/post limit before we're allowed to have a wagon reach L-2/L-1?

Further, if you have an early scum read, do you propose holding onto this read until we reach a certain point of the game as well? I mean, your whole argument basically says 'don't do things early game that involve scum hunting because it's scummy' and this is absurd.

121 - Despite what I just said to Molla, I don't like Newbie giving up on his Lane push. If he genuinely believed in what he was pushing, I don't know why he would back off because his scum read is getting frustrated. This doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking it actually has more to do with the resistance to Lane getting wagoned.

2.

Also Persivul's Post 271 is a muddle. Post 281 and Post 283 is an equally confusing follow up. Like, Persivul is reaching to attack his voter kind of muddle.

- Post 271: the "effort =/= alignment, why are you suspecting low vote count people?!" is a very blunt attack of "Misconception X should not be a basis for a vote, therefore I will attack your suspicions as if they are based upon Misconception X"

- Post 281: follows up on Post 271, which is bleh; also states a pointless truism (paraphrased: "scummy posts are scummy") in his attack on Newbie; also talks about Newbie doing associative tells, which I still don't know wtf. All of which = bad push against Newbie.

- Post 283: having been called out on the "Newbie is using associative tells" out of left field, gets defensive with a nonsense response: (quote here to emphasis defensiveness) "Point is that since you're just voting on shit I'm not real concerned about it."

3.

Ugh. I don't like anything on Page 12.

- This was me being lazy because I didn't want to type out my response to each post other on Page 12 that bothered me

- Post 284: comical misrep-by-question of ika. Looking at it now I could see how Anti would be like "ah, yes, newbtown black-and-while bluntness!," but there's more manipulation that that, as indicated by the Fox News questioning format. E.g., "Hey is it true that you beat your wife? I'm just asking questions!"

- Post 287: this is part of Persivul's string of posts about town night action strategy that I don't like; here, he's a wise master about what we should do, when earlier in the game he was all like "what is game breaking?" and "this night strategy thing seems legit". There's more nuance to it, in terms of the various messages Persivul has put forward on the night action strategy, but I'm several beers in at this point and nobody really cares.

- Post 289 / Post 292: I didn't like this vote originally because it was on BB and was dumb. I still feel that way, but I don't know if it makes Persivul scum, necessarily, and tends to favor Anti's "black and white newbtown" narrative.

[Green Crayons]

Cool, so why aren't you voting for Persivul then?

Because looking for most viable lynch from my lynch pool.

Folks listen to Anti, so atm it's probably whoever he pushes.

Unless if you want to revitalize the Persiv-wagon? I may be tempted to defect.

[Green Crayons]

Maybe I could have been more clear with respect to the first half of what your post addresses.

Newbie never said that she was suspecting players because of their low post content. But you said that she did, and then attacked her for it. That is what is suspicious.

Newbie never voiced associative suspicions. (Unless if I have missed it somewhere? I don't think so.) But you said that she did, and then attacked her for it. That is what is suspicious.

[Green Crayons]

271:

"your scum reads are the four players (excluding yourself) with the lowest post counts"

+

"I've heard on here that effort is not indicative of alignment." / "Is this just coincidence?"

=

Accusation that Newbie is suspecting players because of low effort.

[Green Crayons]

Jesus fuck

"But you said that she did," where the "did" was referring to "suspecting players because of their low post content," not whether or not Newbie ever

said

she was suspecting players because of their low effort.

You're (wrongly) arguing a pedantic point about grammar, when it's clear that I am and have been saying you made up a basis for Newbie's suspicions (low effort) and then attacked that made up basis.

[Green Crayons]

Jesus fuck

"Jesus, fuck"

not "Jesus fuck"

Gross.

[Green Crayons]

Your observation was that Newbie voted low count voters.

You then made up the basis of Newbie's vote - that it was because they were low count voters.

Two different things.

[Green Crayons]

Probably.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, if you're town, my play is probably super frustrating.

Sorry.

[Green Crayons]

Then again, if you're scum my play is also probably super frustrating.

[Green Crayons]

getting hung up on semantics and nitpicking at the wording is absurd

I agree, but we obviously disagree about who is doing the nitpicking, here.

[Green Crayons]

So you think there's a better case on Persivul, but you'll let someone who you were reading as town get lynched? And you acknowledge it? Omg.

You're in my lynch pool.

Accept it.

It's not a matter of which of the folks out of my lynch pool I think is the "best" lynch for today. I'm not really attached to an order, just as long as one of em gets lynched. And quickly. My goodness games take forever.

If you can get a quick wagon on YGS or Persiv, that will actually go through, I'm there. But I'm taking the path of least resistance (to one of the folks in my lynch pool).

[Green Crayons]

yeah, it's you.

bottom line: you're accusing p-thing of a strawman when none exists.

That's not nitpicking.

But disagree, in any event.

[Green Crayons]

Oh I see.

Anti saw Thing X was wrong with Newbie's suspicions, and therefore is saying that Persiv's problems with Newbie's suspicions is really Thing X, even though Persiv is calling it Thing Y.

[Green Crayons]

Y/N?

[Green Crayons]

Because that's giving Persiv way too much leeway and credit.

[Green Crayons]

When did I become a part of your lynch pool? Is the only reason really because of BBmolla and anithero? If so, then no. I can't accept that. If I'm going to get lynched for false reasoning such as "targets of convenience" and simply because other people suggested to lynch me, then I'm not going out quietly.

Sorry, I trust people's judgment who I read as town who have a good track record.

Like, I don't really care if you go out quietly or whatever. I'm not telling you be quiet about it. I'm saying that if you wanted me to vote YGS or Persiv, their wagons would have to be more viable than your own.

[Green Crayons]

I have more votes on me than the person who defends me against a case from a person that's on my wagon for said case, while also admitting that he's following along because he trusts that person...when he just tried to help debunk said person's reason for lynching me. This is unbelievable.

Is Anti's sole reason for voting you your reads list?

[Green Crayons]

Well that reason is dumb.

The "aloof" business is just gut, and I can support the gut of a player whose judgment I trust for a D1 lynch.

[Green Crayons]

Particularly because it coincided with another player's suspicions which I also trust.

[Green Crayons]

No. What I'm saying is that Anti used the term "aloof" as shorthand for "gut." He never said that, but that's how I'm characterizing it. When you challenged him on aloof, he was basically (paraphrasing from memory) "I don't know, that's just what all I feel."

I'm not particularly interested in voting sthar. I'm waiting to see if Anti is going to flop back into my lynch pool. If not, I'm switching my vote to YGS or Persiv.

[Green Crayons]

I don't know sthar.

But I like it.

[Green Crayons]

Because it conforms to general thread sentiment?

[Green Crayons]

I have no idea what you're saying w/r/t double standard, which isn't something I said.

[Green Crayons]

Because it conforms to general thread sentiment?

No, because it's pretty lazy.

Explain the difference.

And when you said it was completely horrible, did you mean alignment indicative horrible?

[Green Crayons]

I have no idea what you're saying w/r/t double standard, which isn't something I said.

Oh I see sthar said something about a double standard.

How you ended up quoting me as saying something posted by sthar is a mystery.

[Green Crayons]

The only difference between sthar's list and your list in Post 261 is that sthar shunted the "easy" players into town/scum, whereas you called out a different selection of people.

[Green Crayons]

Your reaction to my assessment?

[Green Crayons]

@YGS:

self awareness is alignment indicative?

[Green Crayons]

Came for the Anti sheep, currently staying because I'm finding the sthar push bad. Trying to determine basis of bad push.

[Green Crayons]

Was talking in reference to Newbie.

Get over yourself.

<3

[Green Crayons]

oh, ika

Why'd you have to do something so scummy?

[Green Crayons]

We don't have a claim.

[Green Crayons]

I'm visiting the person above me because that's BREAKING THE GAME.

[Green Crayons]

It wasn't the hammering.

It was the hammering without a claim.

[Green Crayons]

I'm a traditionalist! I like claims!

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Persiv

Because:

Persivul I thought was town for the first half of what game there is, but after that he's been saying things that don't really get me feeling rad.

@Persivul:

YGS's Persivul suspicions are credited.

Also Persivul's Post 271 is a muddle. Post 281 and Post 283 is an equally confusing follow up. Like, Persivul is reaching to attack his voter kind of muddle.

Ugh. I don't like anything on Page 12.

I think his 180 on the BBmolla plan is also iffy, as well as his mix of knowing what is going on + "I'm newbie so help me out here"

Oh, well I don't think Persiv is posting like that, and looks much more like clunky attempts at manipulation/accusations.

@Newbie:

1.

YGS's Persivul suspicions are credited.

Spoiler: these posts

Alright, I'm rereading.

Something feels off here; Persivul votes ika (it looks like another RVS vote?)

VOTE: ika

I presume our mayor was just murdered or some such...and you just want to chat around the fire?

Then, Newbie questions him about jumping on the ika wagon;

^
What compelled you to jump on the wagon?

Without responding to Newbie, Persivul quietly jumps back off the ika wagon (with another RVS vote?);

Damn lurkers

VOTE: sthar8

Hey green funyuns, who were you quoting?!?

32 - Lane, here you vote GC for 'forced attempts at scum hunting'.

34 - Yet here, you compliment the ika wagon and vote us.

Was your original vote on GC a serious one? If it was, what did we do that was so scummy to make you change your vote?

100 - Another bad vote from Persivul. That's four so far.

104 - Molla, I disagree on Newbie. I can understand his push and the motivations behind it.

107 - Lane, given you think wagon hopping is scummy, what is your read on Persivul?

109 - Persivul, what makes you think that an early wagon will lead to a lynch? Do you suggest we have a page/post limit before we're allowed to have a wagon reach L-2/L-1?

Further, if you have an early scum read, do you propose holding onto this read until we reach a certain point of the game as well? I mean, your whole argument basically says 'don't do things early game that involve scum hunting because it's scummy' and this is absurd.

121 - Despite what I just said to Molla, I don't like Newbie giving up on his Lane push. If he genuinely believed in what he was pushing, I don't know why he would back off because his scum read is getting frustrated. This doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking it actually has more to do with the resistance to Lane getting wagoned.

2.

Also Persivul's Post 271 is a muddle. Post 281 and Post 283 is an equally confusing follow up. Like, Persivul is reaching to attack his voter kind of muddle.

- Post 271: the "effort =/= alignment, why are you suspecting low vote count people?!" is a very blunt attack of "Misconception X should not be a basis for a vote, therefore I will attack your suspicions as if they are based upon Misconception X"

- Post 281: follows up on Post 271, which is bleh; also states a pointless truism (paraphrased: "scummy posts are scummy") in his attack on Newbie; also talks about Newbie doing associative tells, which I still don't know wtf. All of which = bad push against Newbie.

- Post 283: having been called out on the "Newbie is using associative tells" out of left field, gets defensive with a nonsense response: (quote here to emphasis defensiveness) "Point is that since you're just voting on shit I'm not real concerned about it."

3.

Ugh. I don't like anything on Page 12.

- This was me being lazy because I didn't want to type out my response to each post other on Page 12 that bothered me

- Post 284: comical misrep-by-question of ika. Looking at it now I could see how Anti would be like "ah, yes, newbtown black-and-while bluntness!," but there's more manipulation that that, as indicated by the Fox News questioning format. E.g., "Hey is it true that you beat your wife? I'm just asking questions!"

- Post 287: this is part of Persivul's string of posts about town night action strategy that I don't like; here, he's a wise master about what we should do, when earlier in the game he was all like "what is game breaking?" and "this night strategy thing seems legit". There's more nuance to it, in terms of the various messages Persivul has put forward on the night action strategy, but I'm several beers in at this point and nobody really cares.

- Post 289 / Post 292: I didn't like this vote originally because it was on BB and was dumb. I still feel that way, but I don't know if it makes Persivul scum, necessarily, and tends to favor Anti's "black and white newbtown" narrative.

Don't just take my word for it:

Oh I think Persival scumslipped

VOTE: Persivul

I disagree on your persivul read anti

[Green Crayons]

Anti

I followed you

You were wrong

Pay me back, holmes

[Green Crayons]

no

Just vote Persiv.

[Green Crayons]

seriously one between YGS & Persiv is scum

more likely Persiv than YGS

[Green Crayons]

anti, its obvious its YGS/GC

lets just lyncht hem andbe done with it

I upgraded from POE to obvscum?

[Green Crayons]

I don't believe they're both scum.

I have explained why I think that they are not likely to be scum together.

I have explained why I think Persiv is more likely to be scum than YGS.

[Green Crayons]

I think that's Anti way of saying he wants to hydra with you.

It's love!

[Green Crayons]

I liked his D1 play up until he hammered (fine) without a claim (not fine).

If Persiv is scum he drops in my opinion. If YGS is scum he climbs in my opinion.

[Green Crayons]

Working from memory. Would probably reread upon Persiv/YGS flip.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, I still think your responses are bunk. As I made clear in Post 469, Post 471, Post 474, Post 477, and Post 492.

The NK analysis is all Anti.

[Green Crayons]

The notion that YGS & I are scum buddies

is as laughable as the notion that YGS & Persiv are scum buddies

[Green Crayons]

anti, its obvious its YGS/GC

lets just lyncht hem andbe done with it

It seems almost as if you and funyuns had this attack all planned out.

are you two

being this obvious on purpose

???

[Green Crayons]

I don't even know what you're saying.

I'm voting you based off of D1 case.

Anti talked about NK.

[Green Crayons]

Also, I get the feeling that Anti can likely push what he wants through for another day, and a newbie isn't going to have much say.

What do you mean by this?

[Green Crayons]

Well

You seem to be attacking Anti for pushing you

Even though he isn't voting you

And Newbie wanted to lynch you

So it's not like Newbie not having much of a say doesn't mean much when it comes to you

[Green Crayons]

So I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

[Green Crayons]

Ah, okay. I was reading it in juxtaposition to our convo.

[Green Crayons]

I don't understand the purpose of the question.

[Green Crayons]

@sthar:

who is scum?

[Green Crayons]

@Persiv:

who is scum?

[Green Crayons]

@ZZZX:

who is scum?

[Green Crayons]

@snscompt:

who is scum?

[Green Crayons]

tee hee

[Green Crayons]

GC, what's the significance of your signature?

Did you have a full and fair trial?

WELL GOOD.

STOP COMPLAINING.

NO YOU CAN'T GET HABEAS RELIEF JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE "ACTUALLY" INNOCENT.

THE SYSTEM WORKS.

[Green Crayons]

I think it's rather appropriate for the game of mafia.

[Green Crayons]

So everyone agrees Persv v. YGS for today, right?

Pile onto your racehorse, folks!

Let's not drag today out.

[Green Crayons]

14 day deadlines are bad for town.

Full stop.

[Green Crayons]

This is bad though. Why is it between Persivul and us?

YGS thinks Persiv is scum.

Persiv thinks YGS is scum.

Most people in this thread have said that they think YGS, or Persiv, or both, is/are scum.

It's obvious where this is going. Let's just get there now instead of wringing our hands.

[Green Crayons]

Claim, Persiv?

[Green Crayons]

Man I was hoping you were going to claim VT. Just to shake things up.

Persiv isn't cop. I am. I investigated Persiv. He's scum.

I was tempted to not claim today, to get in another night investigation, but that's too risky and, frankly, isn't best for the town but only best for me living for another day. If we mislynch today, likely scenario is 3 deaths and then scum wins.

[Green Crayons]

lane and YGS are obvtown.

Although ika has the wrong suspicions, I think his play is town.

Anti gives me pause, because he refused to suspect Persiv, then suspected Persiv based off of NK analysis, which is self-evident in its suspiciousness. His L-1 vote on Persiv is not alignment indicative as far as I'm concerned.

ZZZX could be scum, but he's been pretty inactive on the site generally I believe. sthar's fencesitting between YGS/Persiv looks real bad.


sthar, ZZZX, Anti would be my lynch pool if I wasn't going to get NKed. (Sorry Newbie.)

[Green Crayons]

sthar is my first choice, definitely (once again, sorry Newbie)


but I can totally see Anti saying:

Let's kill BB because he suspects Persiv, net good for scum
Then I will point out suspicious NK, good for me
If you get a wagon, I have a reason to vote you, but you'll just claim cop

Sucks that Persiv claimed cop and then claimed innocent finding on me, though, so that throws a wrench in scum plans.

[Green Crayons]

YGS was a constant pro-Persiv vote presence.

Bussing is even more antithetical to scum win condition in this setup.

[Green Crayons]

Only have to survive two days without getting lynched = almost-auto win.

[Green Crayons]

anti, its obvious its YGS/GC

lets just lyncht hem andbe done with it

It seems almost as if you and funyuns had this attack all planned out.

are you two

being this obvious on purpose

???

I don't think this came from scum buddies.

[Green Crayons]

Sorry Newbie.

[Green Crayons]

And thanks sns. Quick game, quick results, no delays, no problems. Everything I could ever want out of a game. *tear*