Open 598: GAME OVER

[Newbie]

VOTE: You Got Schooled

[Newbie]

yawn. talk to me when you guys are done being stupid

What do you think is stupid exactly?

[Newbie]

VOTE: ika

[Newbie]

RVS, i rather RQS like so

Spoiler: questions

are you scum?
why are you town?
who do you plan on visiting tonight?

No.
Because I am.
Idk.

[Newbie]

^
What compelled you to jump on the wagon?

[Newbie]

VOTE: lane

His reaction to GC's vote is horrendous.

[Newbie]

Solid ika wagon I think.
VOTE: you got schooled

So you think YGC is bussing ika?

[Newbie]

Then how is ika's wagon solid to you if you think there's scum on it?

[Newbie]

Wait wait wait. So I must be 100% confident in my reads? What does it mean to you if I think that ika could be scum, and you got scolded could be scum, but I don't necessarily think they're partners? Is that scummy to have multiple reads? What does this information mean to you?

No. No it isn't scummy to have multiple reads. But why didn't you place a vote on ika of you think he could be scum?

[Newbie]

*if

[Newbie]

That's your final answer for placing your vote on YGS?

[Newbie]

I mean, I was expecting something like you wanted to see the vote count first before throwing your vote on. Otherwise, I don't understand why you personally didn't want to add on to ika's wagon if you don't think YGS and ika are necessarily connected but that they both still could be scum.

[Newbie]

I'm basically wondering why he didn't want to add on to the wagon of someone he thinks is scum (which was the lead wagon). There are reasons why a townie wouldn't: either they think the wagon is bad or they want to be cautious about a quick lynch. But he specifically stated that he thinks the ika wagon is solid and didn't mention anything about not wanting a quick lynch. He didn't even try to stall it.

It looks like scum knowing what ika will flip. If ika flips town, then lane can get town cred by not being on the lynch. If ika flips scum, then he can try and get town cred by saying he acknowledged that the lynch was solid.

[Newbie]

Hey newb, you jumped off the leading wagon onto me. Why would you do that?

Because I initially thought you could be scum avoiding a wagon that would flip townie.

Though, now that I think about it and read this post of GC's

@Newbie:

It looks like scum knowing what ika will flip. If ika flips town, then lane can get town cred by not being on the lynch. If ika flips scum, then he can try and get town cred by saying he acknowledged that the lynch was solid.

This theory doesn't really match up with lane's play, though.

lane doesn't get any credit for a ika-town flip, as lane was cheerleading the ika wagon from the sidelines.

I see scum trying to avoid a scum partner's wagon while putting it out there that they support it (but not by vote!).

[Newbie]

Dude, you said ika's wagon is solid. How is that uncertainty?

[Newbie]

It's not forceful. There's a reason I kept asking him about his vote on YGS. I thought he may not want to throw on another vote before a vote count because there's no other reason I could see him not voting for the leading wagon that he sees as scum.

[Newbie]

It's not forceful. There's a reason I kept asking him about his vote on YGS. I thought he may not want to throw on another vote before a vote count because there's no other reason I could see him not voting for the leading wagon that he sees as scum.

I gave you my reason. remember? I said it several times. Your reasons for not voting someone are cool. That's all good. There is no reason I didn't vote ika besides the fact I HAVE 1 FUCKING VOTE AND USED IT TO VOTE MY TOP READ.

I'm not going over this again.

I'm done talking to newbie too

Ouch. Sorry that my stubbornness is pissing you off.

Look, I'll just drop it for now.

Okay lane, got it. I don't like it, but I think I understand.

Scum only get one gun night, yeah?

Yeah. It's a oneshot.

[Newbie]

You don't agree that him saying Lane is probably town while not doing anything to change his vote is pretty scummy?

[Newbie]

Okay...you can't blame people for seeing such an action as scummy. The reason you don't is because you've done something similar yourself while being town. Maybe not all of us have that same experience.

[Newbie]

UNVOTE: lane

[Newbie]

Who would you put a wagon on right now, and why? If it makes sense I'll help with some pressure.

I haven't finished rereading yet but I wouldn't mind a wagon on GC, Newbie or you. Here's why;

GC for his absurd comments in relation to the game breaking plan.

Newbie for stopping his push on Lane when he had been given no reason to do so.

Lane's lynch wasn't going anywhere, and I liked his reaction to sthar not unvoting him.

I also completely agree abut GC. They seemed to be laying it on a little too hard when accepting the plan.

VOTE: Persivul

Calls for a wagon come later

I'm much more interested in wagons, so

VOTE: ika

But,
1) Not scum!
2) Because my partner is better at attracting the town-fairies than me
3)Someone without a gun? Right now, probably lane, but it's a bit early to tell.

You?

Ooo pretty wagon

Newbie is making a lot of sense right now.

VOTE: Lane

Ooo prettier wagon!

This is completely unfair. YGS' thoughts on each lynch is pretty clear as he explained them, and each came with different circumstances.



My current scum reads are ika, Persivul, GC, and sthar.

VOTE: Persivul

[Newbie]

My current scum reads are ika, Persivul, GC, and sthar.

VOTE: Persivul

Excluding ZZZX who is on V/LA, your scum reads are the four players (excluding yourself) with the lowest post counts.

I've heard on here that effort is not indicative of alignment. Do you disagree? Is this just coincidence?

I'm pretty sure GC doesn't have low post count. He's actually one of the more active players.

Effort can be indicative of alignment when accompanied with scummy posts. Is that all you have to say? Nothing about my vote on you?

[Newbie]

I mean, I don't have a problem with using associative flips as a strategy at times, but what does that have to do with my vote on you?

[Newbie]

So I guess I'll be keeping my vote then.

[Newbie]

GC if you were to pick the scum team who would it be right now?

YGS: BBT-head (is that really him?) is acting SUPER WEIRD for all reasons I have stated in thread. Not like the BBT-scum I have played with, but also not like the BBT-town I have played with. Also this isn't a personality clash, because BBT and I get along just fine, so something is very much up. (pre-post edit: maybe this is what BBT-town acts like if he thinks GC is scum? my god that's frustrating.) Bella seems much more reasonable, if I were to assume that she has to believe that BBT-head is town, which I hate because ugh goddammit just make me warm and comfortable with my scum read.

uhhhh, POE after that.

Jeanne11 is comical "failed to pick up PM" scum.

I don't see anything scummy OR SUSPICIOUS OH MY GOD EQUATING THE TWO?!??

about lane's,

Newbie's

, or BB's play, and affirmatively think that there has been town play from each (in descending order of strength of reads).

I can't read ika. At least not atm.

sthar could be lazy scum.
ZZZX could be IRL busy scum.
Persivul I thought was town for the first half of what game there is, but after that he's been saying things that don't really get me feeling rad.

YGS, for reasons stated
Persiv, for reasons stated

Newbie, because BB and Anti said so

UNVOTE: Persiv
VOTE: Newbie

g'kjgh;ljkg;

VOTE: GC


@anti Can you please explain how I'm being aloof?

[Newbie]

I would still love an explanation on how I'm being aloof.

[Newbie]

yeah, this vote doesn't quite tickle my funny bone like a newbie one does
sry, bbt

VOTE: newbie

You're voting me for being "aloof" when that's a bunch of bs. GC's reads list was obviously towing the line. The only one he was "sure" of was YGS because *surprise/surprise* he was already pushing him and had his vote on him.

[Newbie]

You're voting me for being "aloof" when that's a bunch of bs. GC's reads list was obviously towing the line. The only one he was "sure" of was YGS because *surprise/surprise* he was already pushing him and had his vote on him.

towing what line?

GC if you were to pick the scum team who would it be right now?

YGS: BBT-head (is that really him?) is acting SUPER WEIRD for all reasons I have stated in thread.

Not like the BBT-scum I have played with, but also not like the BBT-town I have played with.

Also this isn't a personality clash, because BBT and I get along just fine, so something is very much up.

(pre-post edit: maybe this is what BBT-town acts like if he thinks GC is scum? my god that's frustrating.)

Bella seems much more reasonable, if I were to assume that she has to believe that BBT-head is town, which I hate because ugh goddammit just make me warm and comfortable with my scum read.

uhhhh, POE after that.

Jeanne11 is comical "failed to pick up PM" scum.

I don't see anything scummy OR SUSPICIOUS OH MY GOD EQUATING THE TWO?!?? about lane's, Newbie's, or BB's play, and affirmatively think that there has been town play from each (in descending order of strength of reads).

I can't read ika. At least not atm.

sthar could be lazy scum.
ZZZX could be IRL busy scum.
Persivul I thought was town for the first half of what game there is, but after that he's been saying things that don't really get me feeling rad.

The YGS read is so wish washy and cautious.

Leaves the rest to POE. Doesn't see anything scummy about me, but then places a vote on me because "BB and Anti say so".

Gets cautious again with the whole "could" be scum on sthar and ZZZX.

What a coincidence. Just when Persivul's lynch starts gaining attention and picking up steam.

I don't understand how you can see my reads list as meh but not GC's.

[Newbie]

I find it funny how anti and BB are coming for others about playing awful when they're both being pretty terrible atm.

[Newbie]

What do you think of Persiv, Newbie?

I think there's a big chance that Persivul is scum as well. And I'm not voting him. It's kind of weird that you didn't realize my vote was on you, GC.

[Newbie]

His effort has been pretty underwhelming so far. The most I've seen him do was during the talk of game mechanics.

[Newbie]

@Persivul:

YGS's Persivul suspicions are credited.

Also Persivul's Post 271 is a muddle. Post 281 and Post 283 is an equally confusing follow up. Like, Persivul is reaching to attack his voter kind of muddle.

Ugh. I don't like anything on Page 12.

@GC Can you explain this Persivul read a little more?

[Newbie]

@Newbie:

1.

YGS's Persivul suspicions are credited.

Spoiler: these posts

Alright, I'm rereading.

Something feels off here; Persivul votes ika (it looks like another RVS vote?)

VOTE: ika

I presume our mayor was just murdered or some such...and you just want to chat around the fire?

Then, Newbie questions him about jumping on the ika wagon;

^
What compelled you to jump on the wagon?

Without responding to Newbie, Persivul quietly jumps back off the ika wagon (with another RVS vote?);

Damn lurkers

VOTE: sthar8

Hey green funyuns, who were you quoting?!?

32 - Lane, here you vote GC for 'forced attempts at scum hunting'.

34 - Yet here, you compliment the ika wagon and vote us.

Was your original vote on GC a serious one? If it was, what did we do that was so scummy to make you change your vote?

100 - Another bad vote from Persivul. That's four so far.

104 - Molla, I disagree on Newbie. I can understand his push and the motivations behind it.

107 - Lane, given you think wagon hopping is scummy, what is your read on Persivul?

109 - Persivul, what makes you think that an early wagon will lead to a lynch? Do you suggest we have a page/post limit before we're allowed to have a wagon reach L-2/L-1?

Further, if you have an early scum read, do you propose holding onto this read until we reach a certain point of the game as well? I mean, your whole argument basically says 'don't do things early game that involve scum hunting because it's scummy' and this is absurd.

121 - Despite what I just said to Molla, I don't like Newbie giving up on his Lane push. If he genuinely believed in what he was pushing, I don't know why he would back off because his scum read is getting frustrated. This doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking it actually has more to do with the resistance to Lane getting wagoned.

2.

Also Persivul's Post 271 is a muddle. Post 281 and Post 283 is an equally confusing follow up. Like, Persivul is reaching to attack his voter kind of muddle.

- Post 271: the "effort =/= alignment, why are you suspecting low vote count people?!" is a very blunt attack of "Misconception X should not be a basis for a vote, therefore I will attack your suspicions as if they are based upon Misconception X"

- Post 281: follows up on Post 271, which is bleh; also states a pointless truism (paraphrased: "scummy posts are scummy") in his attack on Newbie; also talks about Newbie doing associative tells, which I still don't know wtf. All of which = bad push against Newbie.

- Post 283: having been called out on the "Newbie is using associative tells" out of left field, gets defensive with a nonsense response: (quote here to emphasis defensiveness) "Point is that since you're just voting on shit I'm not real concerned about it."

3.

Ugh. I don't like anything on Page 12.

- This was me being lazy because I didn't want to type out my response to each post other on Page 12 that bothered me

- Post 284: comical misrep-by-question of ika. Looking at it now I could see how Anti would be like "ah, yes, newbtown black-and-while bluntness!," but there's more manipulation that that, as indicated by the Fox News questioning format. E.g., "Hey is it true that you beat your wife? I'm just asking questions!"

- Post 287: this is part of Persivul's string of posts about town night action strategy that I don't like; here, he's a wise master about what we should do, when earlier in the game he was all like "what is game breaking?" and "this night strategy thing seems legit". There's more nuance to it, in terms of the various messages Persivul has put forward on the night action strategy, but I'm several beers in at this point and nobody really cares.

- Post 289 / Post 292: I didn't like this vote originally because it was on BB and was dumb. I still feel that way, but I don't know if it makes Persivul scum, necessarily, and tends to favor Anti's "black and white newbtown" narrative.

Cool, so why aren't you voting for Persivul then?

[Newbie]

So, I’m going to take my vote off him and move it to Newbie, based on the arguments above.

VOTE: Newbie

ROFL. And what arguments are that?

[Newbie]

My lynch is pretty much based on bullshit reasoning. How can GC get away with making a whole case against Persivul while still having his vote on me because "anti and BB said so" (and before that, he was reading me as town).

How do you get me aloofness from my posts but don't notice anything wrong with this? Wtf.

[Newbie]

LMAO. All of the sudden the other half of the tag team shows up. (Not that I'm saying GC is scum, just that you two had common personal interests in targeting me.)

Are you going to answer my question about the arguments against me that oh so compelled you to place a vote? And you don't see GC's actions as scummy?

[Newbie]

So you think there's a better case on Persivul, but you'll let someone who you were reading as town get lynched? And you acknowledge it? Omg.

[Newbie]

Newbie never said that she was suspecting players because of their low post content.

no, but that's what i was thinking

the overall point is that they're targets of convenience (as opposed to legit reads). getting hung up on semantics and nitpicking at the wording is absurd

How are they targets of convenience? I suspected ika from the beginning. That's why he was the first person outside of RVS that I placed a vote on. I gave my reasoning for Persivul + his recent scummy behavior. It's why I had my vote on him before switching to GC. And GC was/is obviously one of the more active players.

You're reaching, just as Persivul is.

LMAO. All of the sudden the other half of the tag team shows up. (Not that I'm saying GC is scum, just that you two had common personal interests in targeting me.)

Are you going to answer my question about the arguments against me that oh so compelled you to place a vote? And you don't see GC's actions as scummy?

why are you scumreading sthar?

Because his underwhelming performance + his unnecessarily aggressive response to lane concerning lane's vote on him.

[Newbie]

In other words, neither my ika or GC reads had anything to do with low performance. You both just assumed.

[Newbie]

So you think there's a better case on Persivul, but you'll let someone who you were reading as town get lynched? And you acknowledge it? Omg.

You're in my lynch pool.

Accept it.

It's not a matter of which of the folks out of my lynch pool I think is the "best" lynch for today. I'm not really attached to an order, just as long as one of em gets lynched. And quickly. My goodness games take forever.

If you can get a quick wagon on YGS or Persiv, that will actually go through, I'm there. But I'm taking the path of least resistance (to one of the folks in my lynch pool).

That's the point. When did I become a part of your lynch pool? Is the only reason really because of BBmolla and anithero? If so, then no. I can't accept that. If I'm going to get lynched for false reasoning such as "targets of convenience" and simply because other people suggested to lynch me, then I'm not going out quietly.

I think you're scum, quite frankly. Now I'm trying to figure out if you're bussing Persivul or not.

[Newbie]

In other words, neither my ika or GC reads had anything to do with low performance. You both just assumed.

but assuming thisgs is how you play right?

(ps HI ANTI)

You're right. And I'm assuming that you/persivul/sthar have a big chance of being scum along with GC.

How are they targets of convenience? I suspected ika from the beginning. That's why he was the first person outside of RVS that I placed a vote on. I gave my reasoning for Persivul + his recent scummy behavior. It's why I had my vote on him before switching to GC. And GC was/is obviously one of the more active players.

yeah...

ika's not a VI exactly, but he's a guy that tends to draw a lot of fire for various reasons. fortunately he's also absurdly easy to read and gets even easier as time goes on. if he doesn't fall into lurkaderp apathy mode, he's town. like here.

scum like to go after ika early game because he sometimes says "politically incorrect" things and it's pretty easy to paint his trolling as having some sort of scummy intent because that's how it looks to ppl who don't know him.

i know better, though.

Well I'm not scum, so that's a moot point for me. I didn't like his reaction to RVS and the fact that he hasn't even placed a vote and is content to sit back and watch after naming his lynch pool.

[Newbie]

assuming he's town (or, fuck, even if he's scum) GC is a pretty conservative addition to the list because he hasn't exactly towned it up. so...yeah... no cookie for you there.

Nice confirmation bias.

[Newbie]

When did I become a part of your lynch pool? Is the only reason really because of BBmolla and anithero? If so, then no. I can't accept that. If I'm going to get lynched for false reasoning such as "targets of convenience" and simply because other people suggested to lynch me, then I'm not going out quietly.

Sorry, I trust people's judgment who I read as town who have a good track record.

Like, I don't really care if you go out quietly or whatever. I'm not telling you be quiet about it. I'm saying that if you wanted me to vote YGS or Persiv, their wagons would have to be more viable than your own.

Then I guess I'm saying that I think you're scum, and I'm not starting a wagon on YGS because they're a sure town read for me. As for Persiv, I admit that I'm confused about the situation between you two. I don't know if this is hard bussing or what.

So I guess we're at an impasse then.

[Newbie]

I have more votes on me than the person who defends me against a case from a person that's on my wagon for said case, while also admitting that he's following along because he trusts that person...when he just tried to help debunk said person's reason for lynching me. This is unbelievable.

[Newbie]

Are we going to come back to GC afterwards, or what?

VOTE: sthar

[Newbie]

I have more votes on me than the person who defends me against a case from a person that's on my wagon for said case, while also admitting that he's following along because he trusts that person...when he just tried to help debunk said person's reason for lynching me. This is unbelievable.

Is Anti's sole reason for voting you your reads list?

No, but it was the biggest reason. He also thought I was being too aloof. If you agree with that, can you tell me where I was being aloof at?

[Newbie]

How would it be a gut feeling that I'm being aloof? That doesn't make sense. I would have to "physically" show aloofness somewhere in my posts.

Also, I'm getting a "gut" feeling that you're just now thinking over all of his reasons.

Are you going to change your vote to sthar or are you keeping it on me because of anti's gut feelings?

[Newbie]

Eh. That explanation sounds a bit like reaching.

[Newbie]

I love how all of my reads or reasonings are called shit. When I flip as town, I wonder if that will pertain to the ones who lynched me for "convenient suspects" and being "aloof" as well as the ones who agreed.

I'm thinking that part of it is arrogance and another part of it is scum trying to donwplay everything I say.

[Newbie]

Nice buzzword. Can you define it?

He's obviously twisting things around to fit into his narrative.

town: {lane, anti, BB}
idgaf: {ika, parasol, canyons, Z}
scum: {newbie, YGS}

This is completely horrible, btw. And scummy.

[Newbie]

Because it conforms to general thread sentiment?

No, because it's pretty lazy.

Okay, can you try again and define it

correctly

?

It was summed up pretty correctly. I'm not playing this silly little useless game with you.

Double standard.

I'm the not the only one pulling a double standard.

[Newbie]

Because it conforms to general thread sentiment?

No, because it's pretty lazy.

Explain the difference.

And when you said it was completely horrible, did you mean alignment indicative horrible?

It's pretty alignment indicative horrible. I don't see how I come off as going after easy targets when he basically puts the two people who are already in the hot spot in his scum pile and the three people who are pretty much agreed upon as town by most in his town pile while not even having anything to at least say about Persivul or you.

[Newbie]

I could understand if he was trying to take his time and was going to say something about the people that he doesn't care about after catching up in the thread, but he made up his mind and threw down a vote.

[Newbie]

Right. He put the "easy" players into spots that matches the general consensus of the thread. He completely shunned the "problematic" players, who have also had a good amount of discussion surrounding them. I find it hard to believe that he read the thread and then made up his mind that quickly without having

something

to comment on about certain players.

If that doesn't send off some red flags, then I don't know what to say...

[Newbie]

I don't really get the YGS scumreads

newbie who is scum g

So say I get lynched. When I flip town, who are your next scum reads?

[Newbie]

GC and one of Persivul (although I'm not so sure anymore), ika, and sthar.