Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[ZZZX]

confirming, just got home.

will read in 20 minutes flat

[ZZZX]

Vote: ZZZX

Not at all RVS. This is a policy lynch. Basically for Pathfinder Mafia and I have it on good authority that Pathfinder Mafia was not a unique occurrence.

Good to dance with you again, ika.

/confirm

Not at all pleased ZZZX is in the game but PLUM shines like a Silmaril in the darkness. <3

so far I was having really harsh time issues, If ya wanted me out you could have asked me and I wouldnt have minded. But since stuff is already done let be nice to each others mkay? Also I do think we did play another game where i did fine together (maybe?) but... yea
--reading on

[ZZZX]

when he announced a policy lynch on zzzx lol.

^ and thats how I get a big town read on him, and a lesser town read on you

Surprised you didnt defend me a bit a friend tho

[ZZZX]

VOTE: mollie

this is for u!

mollie town

ika town

MS town?

Agree about mollie so far, Idk about ika. (Did I ever see his scum meta yet?) and ms.... is fucking ms man.

[ZZZX]

If you’re town answer, if you don’t answer vig gets a nice clear headshot
1. Which element would you choose (theme related) – Water, Wind, or Warmth?
2. Choose a player you’ve played with already in this game and describe their town vs. scum meta
3. Choose a player you don’t know at all and ask them a question.

-I would,... choose Water/wind? But I have no clue how is that even related to the theme.
-Metal> town he does what he pleases and just gets things done, after annoying the crap of everyliving thing. scum is close to it but he... resorts to random stuff he doesnt use as town, The moment he starts to attack me I can be careful to sort him out for real. meanwhile he is lean-town for now
3. singer, thoughts on mollie/sonic/ika so far? who is the most likely person to be scum right now.


also

OMGUS

Vote:Singer

your vote was somewhat an rvs out of the rvs i believe. discuss

[ZZZX]

Have I slipped into some bizarre parallel universe where people take the RQS business at least semi-seriously?

its a random question something,

also,... why not answer them? its not like i have stuff to hide

thoughts?

[ZZZX]

@singer the fact that unless i lurked like those games it wont be the same.

Am I wrong?

[ZZZX]

like honestly those 2-3 games fucked up my whole name, made me look like a scrub :/ missing my golden days.

But I will go along and tell you, I aint getting lynched, cus I am hunting some scum down

[ZZZX]

mollie please sign ur hydras posts btw

[ZZZX]

mollie please sign ur hydras posts btw

It should be easy to tell who is Mollie and who is Fro99er.

before I address other posts I just want to point out that zzthing knew it was me but wanted us to sign our posts cos he seemed a bit confused about who was posting.

that is all.

its a bit of the fact that I am not the best at knowing who posted what esp. for smaller posts. But yea makes life easier

[ZZZX]

Phone post:


Mollie is pretty much strong town.

Not sure about ika but... Ika at this stage I expect more interactions with you which is disappointing.


@Singer let's dufuse that argument you had about last to confirm as I was taking my final at that time (hence my vla before game)

Sonics claim is interesting. I feel him being town tbh. I need to read in depth tho so I don't do that mistake twice

I'll read others in depth later. Anyway I want to hear everyone's thoughts about the claim

[ZZZX]

@METAL When I need to sheep you I wait for your invitation first, Now I just saw that post and will read last 2 pages within 2 minutes, stand with me for a sec

[ZZZX]

you didnt do shit.

ZZZX

was the one that caught me, and even i took him for a spin. and we would have won if i hadn't derped.

ftfy

[ZZZX]

why the fuck arent ika and pie and zzzx sheeping me on yukari?? i said that i have caught scum and i am right very often at early game and i am pretty fucking frustrated with this game

can you walk me through *why* Yukari is scum? I'd look at it but I don't actually know what your reasoning is (sans that last post and I'm still undecided on it - while I agree most of it is shallow and/or incorrect, there are some things making me think it is likely just coming from misguided town).

I want that too.

[ZZZX]

okay yeah so

I think yukari's pbpa was spot on.

metal ISN'T scumhunting at all, he hasn't been all game.

instead he is trying to suck up to other players, baiting me, exclaiming that he is lynchbait when he is not, saying things that are blatantly untrue, aTeing like a champ, OMGUSing anything that looks sideways at him and in general fitting the mold of organic and nightless which some dumb pple will buy that is somehow his town game.

you cannot meta metal through pattern matching, if you want to meta him you have to understand him as a player. if he is town then he is trying to throw his town game to couch his scum 1. I wld like to think that he wldn't do that but then I have been surprised by other players before.

it isn't just what he is doing it is the pivotal motivational axis from which he is spinning from.

I feel like pie is trying to cover up for metal with his saying that yukari's reasons for scumreading metal are "shallow" cos they are anything but, and both pie and brian are pretty competent scumhunters and they shld know this but they are pretending that they don't. and I am not feeling the genuine OMG METAL IS TOWN YOU DUMMIES LAY OFF OF HIM which they are capable of broadcasting in their non-abrasive way. I think some pple might think brian is abrasive at times but I am like meh when I compare it to my own or others. he just strikes me as being very kind. doubles for pie.

@ ika

plz don't invite elusive again in a game I am in tia

I think she is eaten up by the little inferiors. and when I say "little inferiors" I am referring to those of the mind.

you didnt do shit. ooba was the one that caught me, and even i took him for a spin. and we would have won if i hadn't derped.


anyway, fuck the nightless.

vote yukari with me plz

I must say that you cant simply meta read sonic, The only reason why I am still thinking is because even after 10s of games with him I cant be sure yet. I find mollie here pretty towny. I have that gut that metal is town, But I am not sure.

Moving on...

[ZZZX]

MS, you have not been scumhunting at all this game.

neither have you, scumbag. i dont see you scumhunting. you are just copying mollie's misread on me, copying her reasoning, and sitting down with a scumtunnel

you need to die

i need to slay you

this reminds me when you attacked me in that game

[ZZZX]

MS, you have not been scumhunting at all this game. All you have been doing is useless chitchat to seem more active, sheeping, buddying, searching for the best scumhunter to NK, throwing around weightless flippy-floppy votes, being defensive omgus, and repeatedly claiming to be town unprovoked. Plus there is your bold faced obvlie claiming you somehow read our role pm.

VOTE: elusive

Sheeping ika

Sheepy random weightless vote, we got bad vibes from this but the longer the thread got the scummier MS looked to us.

Andrius, tell us: who are the players in this game are you most familiar with? Who do you make it a higher priority to sort first? And how good/accurate are you at sorting those players?

Fishing for good scumhunters to NK.

Hi mollie! <3

Sheeping ika because he is ika

I need to get a read on Andy! He is one of my top priority targets to sort! If he is town (I already have a town read on him) then it is advantageous to town, and we should collaborate reads and work together.



I was waiting for you to check in Mollie!!! :):) so here is my counter reach out

Sheepy buddy chitter-chatter.

okay so when did you decide that he was town?

when he announced a policy lynch on zzzx lol.

anyway, this is RQS/RVS! chill gal lol



thats nice to hear about frogger! ok i will be nice. i remember the last game that we played and you were newbie-guiding with some guy called trickster and i forgot what the game was but i did not remember having so much fun there.


i know you enough to guess what your answers will be to the question that i asked andy! so i will not ask you that.

here is a changed question:

who in this game are you most afraid of rolling scum and why? any examples of nasty scumgames?

Lousy voting excuse, defensively mentioning rvs/rqs, more buddy chittychat, then more fishing for nk target.

I didn't like singer's mere confirm either. Surely she should have seen the long talk that we have already made.

also, Sheeping ika

VOTE: singer

Sheepy, and interesting post consider not too much later you posted: "Like they are only townreads but nobody has ever hit the strong town market except singer" and "Why the fuck are there 2 votes on signer??? That's crazy."
So what changed?

frogger is cute!

mollie i hate your push on me. it is disgusting and your angle makes me feel all sorts of uneasy. you are not town yet.

VOTE: mollie

this is for u!

Fillerchat then defensive omgus @mollie.

I like frogger. Gonna townread Mollie. Her read on me still sucks though. Need a nacho


Yukari is scum

VOTE: yukari

Molly town now for some reason, since time to omgus @ us.

on phone now as usual so can't respond to stuff


singer town
Andy town
Ika town
Pieguy town
Elusive town
Grib leaning town
Plum leaning town
Frogging leaning town
Hydrangea null
Bookitty leaning scum
Yukari scum

On phone as usual so can't respond to stuff? 2 scumreads, one on me and the other on bookitty for some unexplained reason, who according to your iso looks like you havn't mentioned before or since.

Eh cool. Just nice I have 3 non townreads. Perfect number of scum in a mini theme.

Slay them. I think I am right. I am usually right

Us, bookitty, and who else?

Yes I googled ori to flavor hunt and I am very persuaded to play it


But I am a study kid so I do not have much of time

This is likely where the idea for the desperate ori fakeclaim came from. It is not even close to a good fakeclaim considering we can't find an ori role in any of the setup pools, nor on the mafiawiki. More unprovoked mentioning of time constraints.

I am the first to confirm therefore I am the first to be on everyone's townlist



To avoid this being rated as a spampost: frogger, how independent are you at playing the game and hunting scum? How confident are you at finding scum without handholding from mollie? Because she is setting a wrong example by calling me scum (not a bad example cause all mistake can be learned from) but either your slot is scum or she will go "oops oh well" at the end of the game and everyone will learn

Lol@ the first part, then to "avoid this being rated as a spampost" he goes fishing for scumhunters again trying to gauge ppl's scumhunting ability for NK target.

I am not feeling good about this game because I don't have any strong townreads

Like they are only townreads but nobody has ever hit the strong town market except singer




Pedit: hi singer I am town!

How do you go from saying no strong town reads to singer strong town read in the same post? Plus you just previously posted everyone as town cept us, boo, and 1 null. Then "hi singer I am town!" Lol.

I am being obviously townie and Mollie's failure to read me is her fault not mine. And it is pretty grievous if I think about it.

More like obviously claiming town a lot and looking worried/defensive.

Oh yeah? I am hunting scum. I am hunting you.

Sure, when did you do hunt us? You never even mentioned us until after omgus@ us, even then your only case was omgus until you desperately fakeclaimed ability to see our role pm.

Why the fuck are there 2 votes on signer??? That's crazy.

Also I am town. I am de facto scum mislynch day 1 whenever there is no daytalk . Mollie help me you know that this is my town game and I got mislynch day 1 in AH redemption too.

So crazy yet you were voting singer as well till omgus landed on us. More townclaim outta nowhere + buddy up to mollie.

So yea, MS hasn't scumhunted with any weight at all, just pretending to be active while trying to make friends, reacting defensively, and outting possible nk targets. We were suspicious of MS from the start, grew more suspicious, turned up the pressure up a little, and apparently something in MS gave. I see ppl here who seem to be better scumhunters than us, take a good hard look at MS. His lie at the end was just the final nail in the coffin.

1 scum down, 2 to go. Will be looking for them 2moro, night for now.

My english isnt the best but I can see alot of misrep here, How can asking someone if he can sort people out hunting for good scum hunters? sorting people out = reading them... Also metal as scum has a prob decent idea of this playerlist so he wouldnt need help to know who can scum hunt.

I doubt both metal and yuka are town, its prob tvs or mayybeeee svs, but i doubt the latter.

And thus I shall do this

VOTE: Yukari

really hated that post i quoted. that sums up my reasoning.

[ZZZX]

The thing is Yukari, he did NOT as who the best scum hunter is, He asked who a person thought to be scum/town. that is a huge differnce.

also I think you did tell something about me sheeping you and not the other way around, but this call for sheeping gives me good feelings. In the metal we trust for now.

[ZZZX]

The thing is Yukari, he did NOT as who the best scum hunter is, He asked who a person thought to be scum/town. that is a huge differnce.

also I think you did tell something about me sheeping you and not the other way around, but this call for sheeping gives me good feelings. In the metal we trust for now.

Andrius, tell us: who are the players in this game are you most familiar with? Who do you make it a higher priority to sort first? And how good/accurate are you at sorting those players?

To avoid this being rated as a spampost: frogger, how independent are you at playing the game and hunting scum? How confident are you at finding scum without handholding from mollie? Because she is setting a wrong example by calling me scum (not a bad example cause all mistake can be learned from) but either your slot is scum or she will go "oops oh well" at the end of the game and everyone will learn

the first one is something he knows about someone being able to read people and asks him for his read.

the 2nd he is asking one head of the hydra, he knows mollie and he asks the other head which is pretty.... normal?

[ZZZX]

Ika I'm not sold on metal.

Sell it to me if you even want me to think about it perhaps? What makes his play the same as say nless and not like DT?

[ZZZX]

Ika I'm not sold on metal.

Sell it to me if you even want me to think about it perhaps? What makes his play the same as say nless and not like DT?

DT?

im already sold cus when i watched nightless go on mollie had him peged from entracne and mollie is top town read so i trust her a lot more.

it took you a very long while to decide on MS scum so i take your idea for a grain right now. yes im being kinda dick to you but im telling you not only is he scum btu im not going to tolarate his massifve cap/bold/spam post that he has already done

Double trap


Also I understand your point but I don't really lynch town reads that easily. I CAN be wrong but prove that I am and I will follow. Its just that simple

[ZZZX]

ohey I have a read.

My english isnt the best but I can see alot of misrep here, How can asking someone if he can sort people out hunting for good scum hunters? sorting people out = reading them... Also metal as scum has a prob decent idea of this playerlist so he wouldnt need help to know who can scum hunt.

I doubt both metal and yuka are town, its prob tvs or mayybeeee svs, but i doubt the latter.

And thus I shall do this

VOTE: Yukari

really hated that post i quoted. that sums up my reasoning.

first off, what, specifically, about this makes you think it's "TvS or SvS"? it's clear you think Yukari is scum, but what's the point in even bringing it up then? it is usually not correct to say "this is TvS" and then fit reads to this, rather it should be the other way around - what you did, on the other hand, allows you to backtrack and push MS afterward if Yukari flips town.

in particular, I don't buy your stance this might be bussing. it makes me think you're just trying to take advantage of the massive shitstorm that's going on right now by trying to get one of {Yukari, MS} lynched without caring which.

second off, while I think most of Yukari's post was wrong, this particular line of reasoning is a really shit reason for scum reading him.

it is correct that MS would probably have a good idea of who the competent scum hunters in this game are if he's scum. OK. the problem is, this doesn't make Yukari scum. Yukari likely, regardless of their alignment, would not know that MS would know something like this - so this line of reasoning is reasonable for town-them to at least think.

your angle here essentially amounts to "Yukari's post is wrong, therefore they're scum" - which is really just a bullshit throwaway reason.

The thing is Yukari, he did NOT as who the best scum hunter is, He asked who a person thought to be scum/town. that is a huge differnce.

also I think you did tell something about me sheeping you and not the other way around, but this call for sheeping gives me good feelings. In the metal we trust for now.

this questioning is really weak. is this really the only thing you have for Yukari being scum? you claim his post contained "a lot of" misreps, but I only actually see you pushing this one issue. what else, specifically, did you have an issue with, and why aren't you questioning him over it (in favor of spending all your time poking at MS instead)?

Yukari's line of thought felt really full of bullshit, I hate bullshit.

also I have a guy feeling two town players would not interact in that way, I am pretty sure of it.

[ZZZX]

gut*

[ZZZX]

vote: ZZZX

ZZZX hears you, ZZZX doesnt care

[ZZZX]

MS was pretty fucking obviously joking about "seeing your role". I know you think he lied, but that's really all there is to it - he wasn't being serious.

anyone who saw metal play knows its prob just a joke.

[ZZZX]

OK,

I am replacing out. Hope this is better for everyone.

Enjoy the game, folks.

Turns out I can't do that

I'm here to stay ._________________.

Okey now I am confused as fuck...

Townz:

13. ZZZX
10. singersigner
8. Metal Sonic
4. Frogging Mollie (pirate mollie + Frogger)

Null line:
1. Andrius
3. elusive
5. Grib
6. Hydrangea
7. ika
9. Plum

Leaning Scum Line:
2. Bookitty
11. White Night Imagination (pieguyn + Brian Skies)

Scum Read line:
12. Yukari

read list v1^

[ZZZX]

I will be happy to explain any specific read if asked.

[ZZZX]

Yukari's line of thought felt really full of bullshit, I hate bullshit.

also I have a guy feeling two town players would not interact in that way, I am pretty sure of it.

explain *why* it was full of bullshit

explain *why* you specifically think 2 town players wouldn't interact that way without regard to what they're doing individually

explain whether you will suddenly start believing MS is scum if Yukari gets lynched and flips town - bc if this is the case, this is nothing more than lining up lynches, and if it's not, your line of reasoning here doesn't make sense

2. Bookitty
11. White Night Imagination (pieguyn + Brian Skies)

and explain both of these

because it feels like you're just putting all the popular scum reads as scum - again

Why do you have ika as null, and pieguy as leaning scum?

I explained why its full of bullshit, it says he is doing something while he is clearly not.

anyway about kitty, last 2 town games i played with kitty i remeber kitty was alot more engaged. kitty tried to push for many people and was pretty much active in discussion, here i feel kitty is taking a backseat in this game...

about WHI this one will be harder as its more of a gut read. but you can say that I feel that WHI is asking too many generalistic questions early on and is trying to not have a clear stance on many people. I still for example dont see who WHI is pushing at this stage and is just going with "what-ifs" all the way.

Also answering the question about ika. I honestly as I think I said dont know ika's scum meta. I really havent seen him play scum. reading his posts I really have no idea how to read them. thats ... basicaly it for him.

and if the target flips town i wouldnt flip my read., I would just need to re-evaluate my reads and look at the night kill for the info anyway at that stage. So yea..

[ZZZX]

Anything else?

[ZZZX]

mollie what are your thoughts atm?

ZZZX why is hydra null?

Vote: zzzx

We don't believe the lies.

how about explain what is a lie? because I have been so truthful in all of my posts that I cant even find a lie even if I were to nitpick

also about hydra, its a simple case of that after i read this game his name doesnt give me any feeling, noone of his posts stood out at all for me. thats about it.

[ZZZX]

yo bella! I dont believe I have what it takes to summarize everything but I have a mini catch up in my iso if it would help you. (it has most major posts I think/?)

[ZZZX]

ZZZX (2) - Andrius, White Night Imagination, Yukari

so

And:has the vote since rvs and has said he town reads me before he replaces, so vote here has no value

WNI:I dont get it, explain the reason to scum reading me

Yukari: I dont get urs either, its a pure omgus with some "omg saying im saying bullshit is bullshit" without explain it... yea

anyway i skimed last few pages but didnt read in depth, wanted to say something but tbh i cant remeber what it was, checking back later

[ZZZX]

I do have a blood test and a few official papers that are being done today do I am a little busy . but I generally read people based on their attack of me or interactions. @bella

[ZZZX]

i'm pretty ok with rolling over and lynching MS on one condition: when he flips town, we flashlynch the fuck out of mollie tomorrow with no second thoughts

*if* he flips scum, i'm open to suggestions on what i should have to do. although keep in mind i'm not the only one in this slot so don't suggest anything too unreasonable!

massive scum points. I dont even need to tell you whats wrong with that post.

Why hte fuck should we flash wagon mollie here? Mollie isnt a god at reading metal. Shes pretty good but not well enough to make it that mislynch = death. only scum goes that way.

[ZZZX]

zzthing - unsure lean town even tho he is failing miserably in playing to his best.

is our reads being differnt what "not doing the best" or is it about something else?

[ZZZX]

i'm pretty ok with rolling over and lynching MS on one condition: when he flips town, we flashlynch the fuck out of mollie tomorrow with no second thoughts

*if* he flips scum, i'm open to suggestions on what i should have to do. although keep in mind i'm not the only one in this slot so don't suggest anything too unreasonable!

massive scum points. I dont even need to tell you whats wrong with that post.

Why hte fuck should we flash wagon mollie here? Mollie isnt a god at reading metal. Shes pretty good but not well enough to make it that mislynch = death. only scum goes that way.

I don't like you giving scum points to my 2nd best friend. And he is helping me from mean Mollie.

(First place goes to you, but your lurking is damn )

I aint lurking, Just sleeping (and yesterday did some offical paper work and got all dem bloodz taken from me.)

I am not sure about your 2nd friend here, Must read him well.

[ZZZX]

pieguyn, I'm looking at the Taylor Swift game right now (viewtopic.php?p=6698525&user_select[]=23663#p6698525). You and MS were pretty on point with reads there. MS doesn't post as much as you do but his reads posts is pretty excellent when he does as he nails three scum right away. The ISO is very calm and controlled though, no crazy emotional outbursts.

So are you basing your defense of him one knowing him well? Can you link to games where as town he's had emotional breakdowns?

yeah, I know MS well. usually he gets more emotional the more invested he gets in games. his immediate reaction to mollie/Yukari at first pinged bc it looked over the top, but this was before I read mollie - after I reread her, though, I saw she really did not have any sort of good reason for scum reading him here, and that this was the case ever since the beginning of the game (her first post where she mentions him she claims he has "yet to make a correct statement about their history", without explaining which statements were incorrect or why they were incorrect, or why MS had to be scum for it as opposed to town misinterpreting or misremembering something). keep in mind, this is MOLLIE, someone he's familiar with and who is familiar with him, pushing this. so I absolutely buy that he saw mollie pushing him for shit reasons and then saw Yukari pushing him for similarly shit reasons and saw the "writing on the wall", so to speak. this is even more so the case for *reasons* which I can not elaborate on.

now that mollie is essentially saying that she'll blacklist him if he's town here, and continuing to push him over shit reasons, it's even worse. here someone is who he usually loves playing with and they're 1. claiming he'd do at least one thing that is dishonorable (throwing their town game to support their scum game and lying about listmod actions), 2. threatening to blacklist him, and so forth. it completely makes sense that he would get hurt on a personal level by something like that and respond emotionally to it.

there aren't really any games of his that look similar to this. this is a very unusual circumstance and not something that's ever happened before - I'm going off what I know of his play in order to make a judgement call here. there is this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=25044

while he didn't have a "breakdown" to the extent he had here, or in the same way as he did here, he got really emotional in this game bc he had a town read on Bulbazak (it was a publicly announced bastard game, Bulba was his mason partner) and had to defend it to the death against practically the entire game pushing Bulba as scum. 2656 (iso #628) immediately comes to mind and is the post I always remember when I think MS can get emotional as town, but this also came after basically the entire game of them constantly repeating Bulba was town and appealing to other ppl to get votes off him. from an in-game POV, it was obvious he was extremely invested in the read here and was posting emotionally for the duration of it. while I didn't remember this post specific OTOH, there's also 2297 (iso #515); you can pretty obviously see he's frustrated here

I realize this is really shit for meta'ing bc it's difficult to get a feel for it unless you actually see it. it's more about the general flow of the game as opposed to any specific posts. plus it was a hydra (and it's difficult to tell MS/om posts apart unless you're familiar with how MS/om write; iirc om usually posted in all lowercase). I apologize for this but it's really the best example I can think of and the only completed game where I remember him having a breakdown as town.

Taylor Swift is a weird game bc the majority of the posts were me (the majority of posts - pretty much everything on D1 sans a few posts was me, then everything on D2 forward was him although it's only a few posts again) and both of us had flaked at the end, so he didn't really do much. he wasn't invested in that game, plus that was a really easy going and generally not-frustrating game, so I would not have expected him to get frustrated there under any circumstances.

the game where MS/mollie hydra'd is almost certainly this, unless they hydra'd in a different game and I wasn't aware of it (bonus points for me being the mod \o/):

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=23595

I'm not sure how helpful this will be bc it's really not clear "this is where he did this before" and it's more about the general mindset/range of behaviors I'd expect from him. but I hope it at least makes sense - he is capable of getting emotional/invested in games to the point of breaking down out of frustration, and while it didn't look similar to here, there are contextual reasons that make me think the way he acted here makes sense.

If I read this correct then you do tell that they used shit reasons to push metal,

Why did you scum read me when i said they were using shit reasons however? This is something I wana know.

[ZZZX]

zzzx, why you voting yukaria? Especially if wni has 'massive scum points?'

Grib, why?

because scum points <> surely scum. Scum points is basically my read shifting a little to the scummy side. etc

on that note I really want to vote bookitty but most of the wagon doesnt look too promising frm my side...

[ZZZX]

I'm still up for a Boo lynch - and her flipping scum would at the least make it obvious MS is town here. what do you make of ZZZX? I fucking hated his latest post, more or less bc it's yet another easy throwaway angle and doesn't consider the motivation behind what I'm actually doing.

I dont believe my posts are throw aways, they are short and direct to the point, saying points that other express later after me in worthless walls while i give you the cold hard truth. I hate writing walls unless there is a gain from them. Walls are bullshit 70% of the time..

[ZZZX]

@ zzthing - you are not voting metal that is what is wrong with you. heis pulling the same shit he did in the nightless game and I am not sure how you are missing that.

The thing is, metal's push in nightless was what he did a lylo, check his early game there and here, thats the thing.

[ZZZX]

zzthing my walls are glorious. aren't they? AREN'T THEY???

y..yes they are...


*quivers in fear*

[ZZZX]

If I read this correct then you do tell that they used shit reasons to push metal,

Why did you scum read me when i said they were using shit reasons however? This is something I wana know.

I'm not sure if I'm reading this right so plz clarify if I'm not. Yukari's reasons for pushing MS were bad, but I didn't think it was scummy - I got the impression they legitimately believed most of what they were saying, or just wouldn't think to fake some of it as scum (the bit about the setup in particular comes to mind bc if they were scum they'd know it was just a huge load of bullshit and would likely not make them look good or convince anyone, on the other hand it makes more sense if they were just extremely misguided town).

with mollie's reasons, on the other hand, it's shit bc all of her "reasoning" for MS being scum is pointless noise that has nothing to do with *why* MS's play here is scummy. it's all stuff like "lol, MS is throwing his town meta if he's town here" and "lol, why is it so hard to lynch obvscum on this site". and when she *does* provide reasoning, it's all noise that either isn't scummy or doesn't relate to what MS is doing in the game. as I've been saying the whole time, the only reasoning she's given has been the part about MS replacing out - which is so fakeable it's not funny

I think the way you were pushing Yukari is scummy bc you just called their post "full of" misreps and then only cited one, which wasn't really a misrep. and when they pointed this out and asked you what other misreps you saw, you didn't answer it. it felt like you were just using "misrep" as a throwaway excuse here.

I dont believe my posts are throw aways, they are short and direct to the point, saying points that other express later after me in worthless walls while i give you the cold hard truth. I hate writing walls unless there is a gain from them. Walls are bullshit 70% of the time..

most of your "short and direct to the point" posts fail to take into account the motivation behind what people are doing and are instead generally weak reasons for people being scum

the post re: me I found scummy for this reason- scum-me has nothing to gain by saying something along the lines of "if MS flips town flashlynch mollie tomorrow". I'm pretty fucking sure I'd be able to ride the town cred I'd get on MS' townflip to lead a lynch on her the next day as scum here without needing to make a statement like that (and I literally would not care whatsoever about ika defending her here bc he has no reasoning behind it and given the toxicity of this game state no one would listen to him anyway). and I made that statement because I'm pretty fucking sure if mollie is scum here she'd be able to escape the lynch again tomorrow, given she's doing a pretty good job of BS'ing her way out of it so far, and I don't want to allow that to happen

this isn't to say I'm town for it or that you should have read it as town, just that kind of statement is null; but you didn't stop to think through this. it felt more like you just thought "lining up lynches = scummy" would be a good angle to push to look like you were doing something and pushed it without caring that's not actually what I'm doing here

you are right about the fact that many of the posts i make are not deep, but thats because I am not good starting cases from scartch, as long as I got a solid group to start with and someone to argue with about them I can improve my reads, thats basically how I do it.

I still dont like yukari, it just felt like that. misrep was the reason i can physically express. it also contains a huge ammount of gut. anyway..

[ZZZX]

@pieguy I feel that ZZZX is town though. A lazy angle like "lining mislynches = scum" is something that I could see town-him doing, especially when he does not appear to be invested in the game.

I am not that uninvested here, not perfectly invested but im trying my best to stay in the game!

[ZZZX]

ZZZX, fuckign vote MS already im not going to be happy if you dont listen for once. if you have to recall on nightless i was almost yelling at you to listen to mollie on listen to her about MS

Lets just say I dont like how much tunneling you have been doing, Even if metal has to die its not now,. thats all i can say.

also WNI is town after the last post sent to me,... I think?

VOTE: bookitty

[ZZZX]

Now that you are back we can put our vote back where it belongs.
Vote: ZZZX
Please point out the lot of misrep you claim to have seen.

i can do that later. I still stand by the point that a single misrep was enough reason to me to write it down since i had that gut feelings since long.

[ZZZX]

We are pretty confident in our ability to sort out MS after d1. Zzzx seems like the better lynch today. Bookitty and cpl other ppl need to post more.

Let me ask you this then,.

Have you ever sorted out ms before? because he isnt one to be sorted by normal ways
I am actually starting to get paranoid of how half the game scum reads him but... yea

Also i DID point it out... twice.

I am quite lazy at this point since its 1:00 AM so yea.

[ZZZX]

, I've also seen ZZZX promise that he can sort people out in late game, so... >_>

damn that game >>

[ZZZX]

will be busy for today/early tomorrow for offical paper work.

[ZZZX]

really busy but

fucking hell metal is town as fuck.

[ZZZX]

indeed.

hey, if you vote mollie, she'll be ahead of bookitty

I wana check a few things when I am home tho. After that I will see how things go

Do

NOT

fucking lynch anyone until I am back tonight.

[ZZZX]

To tired answering things later...

[ZZZX]

But especially in light of what Grib pointed out, which I agree with, I'm definitely interested in pursuing ZZZX.

VOTE: ZZZX

The only thing he pointed out was me and X not scum together and PoE.. how does that push you to vote me tho is beyound my understanding.
VOTE: Plum they call dis da great omgus. I wana see you talk w/me about dis so I can dissect you soul uh I mean you true allignment.

[ZZZX]

you can say that for hte last 2 days my activity here dropped to dangerous levels but that was because I am in a big number of games right now,(Disclaimer: Talking about number of ingoing games is legal. Talking anything beyound that is not)

Sometimes int he week I might just lurk here for a day or two.

#

[ZZZX]

p-edit, zzxxx's posting did nothing to reassure me about that slot.

Because being logical and making a case on me is too hard votes just come.

Just like that large 3 months back. lmao
I remeber clearly how scum just pushed for a wagon with no explaintion on me and town bit it pretty easily.

[ZZZX]

Seriously guys, that's L-1. What's the rush?

Best part is that noone even announced the l1, Scum/ignorent town can just quick hammer me without anyone going after them. pretty much.. And its not the first time I saw it happen.

People attacking me are basically People who i scum read and/or People who just did it without any explination or people just using poe as an excuse without showing how it ended up like that "cus magic"

[ZZZX]

zzthing - I think is abandoning me to die which is the best case that I have ever come up with in my mafia career.

Its more of a believe in sonic's words

[ZZZX]

Anyway Fuck sleeping I wanted to sleep but I feel the flash hammer coming, I will give out my reads and then do your shit if u feel like the hammer. But I know at least 2 of the people of this playlist have some hidden love for flash hammers.

[ZZZX]

Actually fuck this I am not staying up anymore later.

If i get hammred before I wake up tomorrow flashwagon the fuck out of whoever hammers. Otherwise grib dies. /hyd is nullish/mollie is null for me/bella is leaning scum.

[ZZZX]

No cmon, Z - you can do better than that. Give some reads.

Fine, Ill dely my sleep until I can get at least some basic level reads in.

[ZZZX]

Scum
Bellaphant << Extreme Gut scum read, also putting someone at l1 without announcing it is something scum does way too often from my personal experiance
Bookitty << scum for reasons I already explainedbefore including how engaged town kitty was.
Yukari << I feel he might eb twon but didnt like most of his posts since long ago
Grib << Just another guy pushing me for "poe" without even going how he got it..
Frogging Mollie << DIdnt like early attacks on sonic. I foudn it as if trying to get rid of future dangers (since sonic reads mollie decently i believe)
Hydrangea << null, Must read
dragonspawn << liked singer's posts mostly. Cant think of much about thsi guy yet. Needs more reading
elusive (tere now) is town. I had a slight town read on elusive and I find teres posts pretty much with good intentions. This is town
ika << I think that is town ika. Didnt see much of ika's scum game but I believe he is too carefree for scum
ZZZX
Town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=55485 << read this if u still think im scum

p-edit: I hated the post you did to push me to l2 for no reason. And if u asked me who would i want to get lynched at that stage if I didnt skim the thread that'd be you. But well after skiming it appears you are more null/towny that my initial thoughts anyway.

pp-edit: Not buying that post bella. totally not buying it. VOTE: Bella

Anyway I can finally sleep in peace..

[ZZZX]

I will go more into details for everything tonight. Just posted to check if everything is k here.

[ZZZX]

I feel like he was useful early on, but then just faded away and isn't much use at all anymore.

So if someone disappeared for 5 irl days he literally is of "no use at all"

okey.

Reading this tonight but this is some bullshit logic here.

[ZZZX]

Imho people on my lynch remind me of an old game. Trying to push me because "I was useless in one game and I have been useless for 0.25% of this game (aka the begining of this dayphase where I even wrote in detail how I couldnt be here at this time very recently) sounds as a really cheap shot at that. Also Bookitty the only game I remeber where you were there was the game where I got NK'd. Unless ur talking about the Reck's which was another situation anyway.

[ZZZX]

zzzx is still scummy. Like, have you read his iso? There's an awful lot of non content there: he town-reads mollie early on, votes yukari for his metal push (with a giant quote and a tiny summary 279), town-reads metal, kinda defends metal, posts a reads-list where half the players are null 411 - notable as this was after metal's replace out nonsense, but it doesn't affect his read: his scum-reads also include WNI who was voting him -, continually hedges his read on ika, focuses on those voting him (this survivalist feel basically never goes away), doesn't think the early boo wagon is very towny, but also has boo as a hard scum-read and doesn't vote, 681 is interesting, some fluff, omgus-s plum, has some valid points about his wagon being underexplained, but ignores previous reads (like, my first reads list he was in my scum-pile...). There's just not a lot of actual scum-hunting/extended thoughts going on. I'm leaving my vote right now 'coz Tere is right about speed-wagons.

lets be honest. this whole mess isnt low content. Yea my content isnt perfect but what i have done so far is pretty decent imho.

[ZZZX]

did you actually read my post: there's more to zzxx than just lurking - I explained my read, and you ignored it, while continuing to question me on it. Wut?

reading back now but can you mention it again? I am pretty sure I cant remeber you saying anything true/making sense about it.

[ZZZX]

4) cus hoenslty after the who shitfest i lost a lot of my urge to solve the game. right now i just want to have a moment to jsut take everythign in. i mean when i get univeraly town read i become apathetic and less gamesolvy cus its a vicious cycle of "im town, now everyone says nothing like im reactionary so when theres nothing to react to, i cant really sove games"

I agree with your stance, Ika.

[ZZZX]

@plum, that's fair(ish), but I was trying to figure out whether she was scum, a preferred wagon, or what. As she wasn't really posting, I ended up having to ask more people who'd had 1 on 1 interactions with her. After having a bit of back and forth, I feel better about the slot.

Meh.

Tere, for when you get back, I respect you and your slot but seriously you're not moving the game anywhere by saying I'm obvious scum, posting an intent to vote me, and leaving it at that. You want to dance, I'm cool with that. If not . . . ??? Whether you outright vote me or not, I don't think we're in danger of a flashwagon, so seriously. You're basically a consensus Townread, and opinions on me are decidedly more mixed, so, you know, stuff might happen if we went at it, whether or not what I had to say affected your opinion of me here or whatever. And the game needs stuff happening. We were all excited to start Day 2 with information! Brilliant! Except then we got ambiguous information and there's not only no consensus about going after either Frogmollie or Cho based on that, but also not much initiative now that we've realized that almost no one seems to have a super strong feeling about that.

@plum what do you think of zzzx now that he was pushed to L1 so quickly? What do you think of Bella?

Eh? It doesn't seem like it makes it much less likely that ZZZX is scum, to be honest. Weird wagons can happen all the time. Bella remains more than vaguely shady. Bookitty, whom you ask about at the end of the post, remains considerably more likely to be scum than baseline largely due to (or pinpointable because of) the way the wagons were Day 1. I'll be honest - I do feel like her last post was

relatable

. Like, a lot of hostile and almost-hostile interactions have really burned something out of the game here. And it's true in many respects that the last few pages have been a mix of mostly going with the flow or engaging in interactions that aren't that useful but might feed frustration between players. And that sucks. But to turn the question around: Dragon, what or who do you see in the ZZZX wagon that makes you read it as indicating Town-ZZZX or whatever? Who's the opportunist in the equation?

I'd prefer to lynch ZZZX because I've been badly burned by his laissez-faire playstyle before and I don't want to let it get to LYLO again.

Really? Really? Just because of that?

Bookitty, what did/do you think of the Day 1 wagon on you? Do you have any independent scumreads outside not knowing what to do with the Yukari/Frogmollie stuff?

I wanted to ask this to you btw, Does your scum-ZZZX read has any raesons other than "lurking" (which I am merely minorly doing. and many others are more worthy to be called for it.

[ZZZX]

How is putting him L2 going to make people talk more?

Do you think He is scum or is this just trying to get some discussion going?

I still don't like the speed of the initial wagon against him. I don't think the scum would bus buddy that fast.

Man, it sure got quiet.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ZZZX

Maybe a slightly bigger wagon will encourage people to post.

I dont mind starting a wagon on me, Only if you have a reason that I can use to talk to you about it. Using a vote to "start discussions" is pointless and usually backfires esp if a wagon is at l-2

[ZZZX]

So if someone disappeared for 5 irl days he literally is of "no use at all"

Yes, I'll stand by that. What good were you to us during that time? What have you done that is helpful since?

I'm not voting you. But I want you to DO SOMETHING.

I'd love if you specify which game it was as I have a bad memory. But that was another case entirely most likely as I had a period with alot of busy-time.

[ZZZX]

I'd love more posts that have content on reasons to vote. I am trying to find something to react to but I cant. :/

[ZZZX]

reading back now but can you mention it again? I am pretty sure I cant remeber you saying anything true/making sense about it.

Look, I assume you are taking a pot shot, 'coz you just quoted why I'm scum-reading you. I get what you are saying about 'it's not non content', but there's not a huge amount to town-read there. If you ARE town, then please stop stuff like this and try to engage with people, so we can rule you out of the scum-pool: Tere called you lynchbait. Boo wants you to be more 'helpful'. You had a wagon on you that can't really be all scum, so maybe accept, if you are town, that you need to make this clearer.

Z, if you are town what is the best way to engage you because I'd like for that to happen rather than for you to be lynchbait?

In the meantime:

VOTE: Plum

because I am still not feeling anything in her ISO is coming from a genuine town standpoint.

People who are townreading her, I'd love to know why, because I am not sharing that viewpoint at all.

I will tell you who else was starting to WTF at her yesterday though - the dead townie....

*snipped wni's quote*

Ms had a pretty consistent scum-reading of her too.

Ugh, Tere, please be town, 'coz this is a much better version of what I've been trying to say, and I'd love to know the answer to your question.

I will be pretty honest with you

I still dont get it.

Eitherway the best part to read me or to do anything to help me is to

Attack me

. But how? Basically

Give me a case on me and I will try to de construct it. Give me someone to check or a post and I will take it apart, Have a 1v1 with me and I will be able to sort you out.

@Mollie imho the fact that you are scum reading me here doesnt really help me trust in town you. Also the fact that metal's dying wish was your head really makes me want to vote you. I might do that after i continue my catch up.

@Plum I dont want to be rude but the last time I saw someone use vote pattern analysis he fucked up the whole shit. And since you are voting me because of it you seem to have done the same thing. Also I dont get how you are doing it without any flipped scum. So literally you are using a cheap excuse. Otherwise show your "analysis" and show how it makes me scum. May you? (+ scum points for bullshitty reason)

[ZZZX]

Feeling better about Cho. I believe Cho(marq) is town here... most likely.

[ZZZX]

Because as I said multiple times, the confirmation and setup design aren't about whether there actually is a BP this game, it's about how the possibility was put into the game.

The "four pools" part of the setup had to be the last step toward deciding what roles were in the setup. In other words, if there were an SK in this game, what role it was would have had to have been decided before the PRs were picked from the pool, while there was still a chance of a Mafia Bulletproof being rolled. And there's no killing role that justifies the possible existence of a Mafia BP other than Vig; SK doesn't meet this, because a Mafia BP pretty much obliterates the chances of an SK winning, even if the SK has an X-Shot Strongman.

Think about it this way: why would Ank and his review group allow for the chance of a Mafia Bulletproof (one with unlimited shots), unless there was a Town Vigilante?

Makes... sense somewhat?

As long as this game was not announced bastard that is.

[ZZZX]

But also there might actually be no SK, so until we have a SK flip we cant use the logic of the existance possibilty of an SK.

[ZZZX]

Really Solid town reads so far:

Ika
Tere

People I want dead:

-Mollie

People I shall vote with all my might and soul:
-Plum (until you clarify the "voting pattern" bullshit)

VOTE: Plum

You know I might have been rusty or smthing but...

MY BULLSHIT SENSOR NEVER LIES>

[ZZZX]

This was something I agreed with. One of the things I keep an eye on are players off a Town lynch, and those on a scum lynch. Especially a Day 1 mislynch, especially one surrounded by controversy and whatever, some scum is probably avoiding actually being on it. I feel like it's a rare game where scum will super commit to a Day 1 mislynch to the point of all pushing it. And yes, the same argument can be applied to me from your perspective or anyone besides me, sure, I get it. I am aware. But from my perspective, this fact alone was enough to make you worth pursuing. Pressuring. Whatever. But I didn't feel The Most Confident about it and I don't feel like I need to justify my vote on such a basis as that. But I don't know. I'm trying to reread, even though everything is about as clear as mud and there are like three or four players all at the same low level of utility and readability over the whole game (like Hydrangea, Bellaphant, dragon unless I can motivate myself to reread Singer any time soon???). You were quite firm on Metal being Town from early on. And it seems like overall the Day 1 Bookitty wagon was highly Town driven, so your vote being there when the Day ended may be good, in fact, hell if I know. Maybe I don't know a damn thing anymore. Just call me Jon Snow.

Al..right

also can you translate what grib wrote into "simple english"

he says that scum are not in metal wagon, Bookitty's wagon is driven by town (mainly me WNI(i think) and metal) yet I am scum for not being on metal wagon? I dont ge thte logic

[ZZZX]

Wanted to do this today but I wouldnt give it my all now, so tomorrow is the day.

[ZZZX]

Also, if we believe Grib's point that one of scum was OFF the Metal wagon, then ZZZX is it by PoE (since those off were ZZZX, Grib, Elu/Tere slot, and Plum). Two of those are conftown (assuming Grib isn't making this all up), Tere is strong town read.

I always would stop a metal sonic wagon as town. look up for any of the 12-30~ games I had with metal sonic.

note: this is to be caught up in 1-2 hours.

[ZZZX]

and it seems im being voted for pushing one of my biggest suspects then moving into another one. lovely

[ZZZX]

I literally just read the last page. None voting with 7 people talking about it.

Planned flashwagon NVR disappoints. It nearly happened once after all.

Tip in reading me: survivor/defensive is my name and play style until I catch scum.

After o read up unless something convinces me that my other scum reads ain't wrong I'll follow my and sonics reads like a holy book.

[ZZZX]

Z, I think you should actually read the goddamn thread.

Tere, I think you should read the goddamn post i made.

[ZZZX]

note: this is to be caught up in 1-2 hours.

1-2 hours.

thank me later.

[ZZZX]

gg, this hammer was amazing LMAO. also how sad that my catch up was for null but gg guys

[ZZZX]

I'm not gunna lie...I was hoping Dragon would be able to ride my town read for a while. His early stuff wasn't great, but if there weren't so many people riding on meta townreads of everyone, his later stuff wasn't too bad.

GG, town...so close!

You did really great imo,. Totally got me

[ZZZX]

Chill both of you... its done.