Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Cho]

Uh.

I didn't read this thread at all before replacing in and now I should probably sift through 56 whole pages but holy shit I have to

carefully

sift through 56 whole pages. fff

Summary please???

[Cho]

Before I go then come back then probably just go and come back again Mollie if you're still around I'd love your current reads and game PoV and stuff <3 love love, bye

[Cho]

I'm not at L-1 tho

[Cho]

Wtf I'm the only one voting me

UNVOTE:

[Cho]

No. Bye.

[Cho]

I guess I can see those last 4 posts as scum

maybe

VOTE: Frogmoll

idk this may change. ~things~

[Cho]

...ok yeah I just skimmed the Mollie ISO and looks like Yukari already claimed it. nvm.

This is dumb I hate being a public vig.

pedit I KNOW THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT BUT IF I WERE SCUM I WOULDN'T BE A FUCKING IDIOT AND NOT CHECK MY PREDECESSOR'S ISO BEFORE EVEN MAKING A SINGLE POST UNLIKE WHAT YOUR DUMB POSTS KEEP INSINUATING LIKE DAMN. MY GOD. FUCK YOU. BYE

[Cho]

You're right, that was uncalled for. Oops! I just felt like caps yelling at you because anyone who thinks that "trick" ever actually works if the replaced slot is scum is seriously delusional. There's literally no way you can pull that off without being super blatant as if you're holding a flashing neon sign over your head saying "YOUR PREDECESSOR CLAIMED, ISO THEM QUICK".

Like I'm fucking obviously town, but it's laughable that you think that that had any chance of netting a guilty if I were scum.

[Cho]

It's also one of those moves that's so easy for scum to do with easy townpoints and no potential downsides that I have to fight my instinctual urge to townread you for it.

Ugh clusterfuck sensors tingling. Skimming the last few pages in a bit but I am not looking forward to it.

[Cho]

Cool, don't care. Who's actually town?

[Cho]

I'm obnoxious scum?

Lol.

[Cho]

Sorry for the absence. I should have declared limited ~playtime~ access earlier due to irl things, but things will be back to normal for at least tomorrow.

[Cho]

Sorry for the absence. I should have declared limited ~playtime~ access earlier due to irl things, but things will be back to normal for at least tomorrow.

[Cho]

Oops, forgot I already posted.

[Cho]

I'm town, Yukari was town, Mollie is town, ika is town, Plum leans town, will ISO ZZZX and get some other pressing stuff on the table in an hour or so.

[Cho]

Quick skim of last 20 or so ZZZX ISO posts - usually all I need - and emotions read as classic town!ZZZX. You don't read ZZZX by his contributions, however helpful or unhelpful they might be at times. (I know I'm going to look pretty arrogant if he flips scum, which of course I'm always afraid of when it comes to players like him that I defend, but I'm like at least 80% on this atm which is good for a quick ISO skim.)

[Cho]

Uh... who's next...

VOTE: Boo

Give me a bit, this one needs more context reading.

[Cho]

**White Night Imagination has been killed night 1.**

Starting here - someone mentioned something about the last neighbor not killing other neighbors, which I want to agree with but I know I shouldn't before I reread it.

Not going to bother with NKA at this point because pie+Bri feels a lot more like a "not lynchable"/"town as fuck" kill just based on it being... them.

[Cho]

-.-

one sec im going to phrapharse last nights dicussion.

i have a lot to relook at right now.

well not much happend.

but to sum ups pies reads in a nutshell:

elusive town
me town
yukari town
ZZZX is town

hydra i would say is light town
singer/dragon light town

bella null

mollie/boo scum

plume is annoying and couldnt read

everyone else is annoying

Yeah ika is definitely town for neighbor stuff and just being so transparently town!ika. I want to use this to qualify my Boo vote more strongly to myself but historically that's never worked out too well so we'll leave that there too.

[Cho]

-.-

one sec im going to phrapharse last nights dicussion.

i have a lot to relook at right now.

well not much happend.

but to sum ups pies reads in a nutshell:

elusive town
me town
yukari town
ZZZX is town

hydra i would say is light town
singer/dragon light town

bella null

mollie/boo scum

plume is annoying and couldnt read

everyone else is annoying

I don't see why on Day 2 we need to lynch the vig ASAP. Even if you think I'm scum (which claiming vig of all fakeclaims out of nowhere D1 would be dumb af to do, no matter how low of an opinion you have of Yukari).

Also unexpected loss of internet access; will try to have things fixed by tomorrow. Sorry!

[Cho]

Checking in on mobile before sleep but lmao ok wow didn't even know that was a thing until now.

So apparently since it's confirmed if there's a bulletproof scum that it's unlimited, that pretty much should have made my slot conftown from the start. There's a near 0% chance that Ank or any other setup designer/reviewer would allow for the chance of a Mafia (full) Bulletproof existing alongside a pre-determined SK. Doing that pretty much puts one of the Mafia on the same or higher level of power as any SK, which would severely limit the SK's chances of winning even more than the SK role inherently has/remove its ability to win over scum in an endgame situation. Even if you want to argue there was some sort of Strongman SK (which I couldn't be anyway because Yukari's kill didn't go through), that doesn't make sense because then there's no point to a Mafia BP.

In other words, I both can't be groupscum because {mafia claiming vig unprompted day 1 is lol no fucking way | a scum-motivated kill went through last night while I was roleblocked since again lol no fucking way someone would both doctor mollie last night and allow this shitfest to go on without validating the vig claim}, and can't be an SK role because the [any kind of SK + possible Mafia BP] combination would make it nearly impossible for SK to win compared to Mafia.

I'm already anticipating some VI comments from someone like dragonspawn about how Mafia BP + ??? SK is still completely plausible so I'll just say here that no, it's not, and it'd be horrible setup design that Ankamius, DeathRowKitty, GuyInFreezer, and sthar8 would never torture any SK with. Instead the only logical role that justifies the existence of a Mafia (full) Bulletproof is a Town (full) Vigilante.

God. That was more than expected. I am on such a high right now, I seriously thought I would just get mislynched. But yeah anyway get fucked scum, I'm alive and pretty much setup conftown now, so feel free to keep wasting your roleblock on me and let the other PRs hunt you down.

Good night.

[Cho]

Because as I said multiple times, the confirmation and setup design aren't about whether there actually is a BP this game, it's about how the possibility was put into the game.

The "four pools" part of the setup had to be the last step toward deciding what roles were in the setup. In other words, if there were an SK in this game, what role it was would have had to have been decided before the PRs were picked from the pool, while there was still a chance of a Mafia Bulletproof being rolled. And there's no killing role that justifies the possible existence of a Mafia BP other than Vig; SK doesn't meet this, because a Mafia BP pretty much obliterates the chances of an SK winning, even if the SK has an X-Shot Strongman.

Think about it this way: why would Ank and his review group allow for the chance of a Mafia Bulletproof (one with unlimited shots), unless there was a Town Vigilante?

[Cho]

But also there might actually be no SK, so until we have a SK flip we cant use the logic of the existance possibilty of an SK.

That's what I'm saying - the mere possibility of a Mafia BP existing, plus the one not-my-nightkill pretty much proves no SK exists.

[Cho]

Reread Cho's arguments and I'm thinking it through.

One thing I don't get is why assume those roles were last? I can see why it makes sense that they would be chosen last, but why should we assume they were?

I'm not saying they were chosen last in terms of designing the four pools mechanic after all the other roles.

I'm saying the 4 random roles were rolled/randomized after all other roles had been set in stone (not who got them, but that for example they had to have decided a Town Vig was in the setup before randomizing from those 4 pools). The other way around is both normally unethical/bastard, and not possible anyway considering this game had already been approved for review before randomization occurred (the only variance in setup is the semi-open 4 random role pools).

[Cho]

But also there might actually be no SK, so until we have a SK flip we cant use the logic of the existance possibilty of an SK.

That's what I'm saying - the mere possibility of a Mafia BP existing, plus the one not-my-nightkill pretty much proves no SK exists.

unless if your sk....

ika.

[Cho]

Jfc.

You design and review setups. Don't tell me you're even considering that could be possible here.

[Cho]

The scum rbing Yukari/me instead of letting the mollie kill happen is also getting to me. I was about to say maybe mollie is actually the mafia bp and trying to lynch me as in "why would mafia bp push hard to lynch the vig" just because I don't like the plot hole there, but it's not just negligible which is disappointing.

I'm going to reread Yukari's D1. Mollie I'm yelling at you if I find something that would obviously make scum unsure if they were shooting you.

Also Yukari claimed Vig unprompted. It should be pretty fucking obvious we're not groupscum.

Also just thought of this: if the Mollie vig went through, we'd be proven very likely town (or at least leashed sk if mafia wasn't thinking of the bp thing), and mafia would have to waste both the rb and nk on me next night. Letting mollie not die just lets town lynch the vig instead of having to kill it.

But then of course scumplay is almost never optimal. So it could just be that scum instinctively chose to roleblock the pr claim. Or the "maybe Yukari won't shoot mollie" thing. If it's that I think there'd be actual scum in Yukari's other scumreads. Will check.

[Cho]

Hi.

I really just want to lynch everyone except ika, Tere, and Fro99er.

This is my exact mindset right now. Including myself.

I seriously hate getting mislynched as a still-useful PR. It sucks all my motivation to play even more than when I'm just a vanilla ML.

I'll... try to do something tomorrow, after work. I'm not going to cry if I get lynched but I still think if any town here would actually use their brain (besides Tere) they'd just realize Yukari decisions may have been "wtf why" but there was absolutely nothing scum-motivated about them. The whole "dislike = scum" fallacy and whatever in its most basic form.

[Cho]

ZZZX, Frogger, ika are all on my never-lynch list. Tere is maybe-never-lynch.

I want a Grib read but my head isn't easily coming to a conclusion on that one.

I don't think I'll be able to read Plum, most likely due to differences in mafia generation/thought process, but I might give it a go on a less busy day.

[Cho]

Oh and I'm still liking my Bookitty vote. There's just something that feels off about her ISO compared to what I remember of her in other games. We all like to think of Boo as a super awesome nice person (which she is of course) but when she's town I almost always get the feeling that she's actually trying to solve the game and is a tiny bit confused about things. But here it just feels like niceness and overexplanation or something like that, it's hard to put into words.

I don't feel like she's actually trying to solve things beyond stuff like an easy offhand "Marquis is nice but Cho is mean!" meta comment and the like.

[Cho]

ZZZX, Frogger, ika are all on my never-lynch list. Tere is maybe-never-lynch.

I want a Grib read but my head isn't easily coming to a conclusion on that one.

I don't think I'll be able to read Plum, most likely due to differences in mafia generation/thought process, but I might give it a go on a less busy day.

Cho, can you explain why Z is on your never lynch list?

Because he's town. It's a never-failed meta thing.

[Cho]

I probably shouldn't throw strong descriptions like that around though if I want to stay right about it.

Retract the "never-failed"; I still very, very strongly think he's town, but I'll reread his early ISO to make sure.

[Cho]

I just realized I should still be conftown even if the "mafia wouldn't fakeclaim vig day 1" argument isn't 100%, because the possibility of a Mafia Bulletproof still mandates that a Vig exist.

[Cho]

And with no other N1 kill or counterclaim I'm pretty much clear.

[Cho]

cho it madates an outside killing source, it does not madate it bign a vig.

its getting irritating to use your vig claim to be here

first you guys say i may not be sk but i could still be mafia because mafia could still claim vig

then it's i may not be mafia but i could still be sk because i could still be an other killing role

i'm going to lose my fucking mind

[Cho]

and not in a "this makes me mad" way but in a "melt away my brain cell by cell" way

[Cho]

It's pretty much proven by setup spec now that can't be either mafia (mafia bulletproof possibility + no other killing role claim/counterclaim (yukari/i'd have been vigged n1 if someone else was the vig)), otherscum (lack of otherscum presence in the semi-open aspect and lack of second nightkill), or sk (mafia bulletproof possibility would destroy sk's chances at winning, a strongman sk would make mafia bulletproof pointless, only killing role that justifies mafia bp is a town vig/vengeful, this game was passed by a highly experienced 3-person team, etc.)

At this point it just feels like everyone just doesn't want to admit Yukari was actually fucking town after all and/or scum is taking advantage of the paranoia and town's reluctance to listen to sound logic.

[Cho]

I mean. If there were another vig, you'd have likely been CC'd if my theory is correct (still learning). I don't see why there'd be two town vig's in this setup. You weren't CC'd. So either there's no town vig or you are the vig. Plain and simple.

(someone please absolutely step in if my theory is wrong, but assuming it's right...) It's all speculation about the setup and WIFOM from there.

Yes, this is accurate. It all comes down to how much the mod wanted to fuck with assumptions regarding the Mafia BP setup possibility.

But then just looking at scum motivation to claim vig: if Mafia knew there was a Bulletproof, why would they claim vig at all, especially unprompted on Day 1? Why would SK claim Vig on Day 1 and risk getting cross-shot by Mafia and force themselves to be held accountable for every single one of their shots (they can't just shoot people who suspect them, they'll be forced to shoot "scumreads" or universal scumreads and that would have again made no sense for Yukari to do Day 1).

[Cho]

I'm asking you to believe scum doesn't play suicidally for the sole purpose of lynching one scumread on Day 1.

Hate on them all you want, but characterizing Yukari as some blind scum idiot like everyone seems to enjoy doing is pretty unjust.

[Cho]

im just more questioning vig vs BP+RB in general

Me too.

The one problem I have with my Frogger townread is mollie's replace out. I could easily see it as partially coming from the mollie that hates being scum because it also felt... weird and unprompted. But then idk because that slot's been so fucking town to me. :/

[Cho]

Well I mean if it's X-shot it'd definitely be 2-shot or more, judging by post 2.

I know this looks like me trying to set up reasons not to lynch me tomorrow as if I already know my kill's not going to go through. But like. Your post is pretty much setting up for me to be roleblocked again.

Also let me say one last time, if some town doc protected Frogger last night and chose to let a likely vig eat the lynch instead of just providing a reason the kill didn't go through so we didn't have to potentially mislynch my slot over rb+bp spec, they suck.

[Cho]

Mod: were any already-existing roles changed after the 4 roles from post 2 were randomly chosen? Were all other roles in the game finalized before the 4 random roles were rolled?

[Cho]

I don't really care tbh. If you guys are just going to ignore cold logic and plain common sense there's not much point in playing here or bothering to argue against a dumb lynch.

Picture yourself in a game full of Tituses (Titus at her confbiasing worst, to be fair) and you'll start to feel what I am right now.

[Cho]

I'm not claiming I'm mod-confirmed town; that's dumb.

I'm just very obviously setup-confirmed town to anyone actually using their brain.

[Cho]

I'm not claiming I'm mod-confirmed town; that's dumb.

I'm just very obviously setup-confirmed town to anyone actually using their brain.

your setup confimred to be non-mafia. not non-sk....

thats the point im more of arguing now but not pushing it very hard.

if you could draw a conclusion that would make it non-sk then maybe but im showing you a flaw in your setup spec. im not disproving your idea that killing exist with BP, im jsut disprvoing it should be town!vig

I've already explained.

Possibility of Mafia (full) BP - under the assumption that if this game had an SK, it would account for balance in a way that gave a lone player a viable chance to win:

- SK without Strongman has practically no chance of winning. SK vs. Mafia in this case is like SK vs. {BP SK + SK's scumpartners}. Not balanced. End of story.
- SK with Strongman brings up "why the fuck would you have a Mafia BP chance then, that's just fucking with Mafia's heads for no reason" and wouldn't be approved as is.
- SK with 1-shot or 2-shot Strongman still is crippled by the Mafia Bulletproof. Using Strongman correctly on Mafia BP with the first shot would take massive good luck for SK (for the mafia, bad luck to be such a crucial kill for SK's strongman), or require SK to waste a regular kill on Mafia BP. If SK ran out of Strongman shots, they're also crippled. This combination is like saying "ok, so the SK can win, as long as the Strongman kills align just right". That doesn't sound so bad when put that way but it's basically hinging a player who's already got 11 other people they NEED to eliminate and throwing a huge luck-based wrench in there (potential for bad luck, and not good). Not balanced, and would not be approved by DRK, GiF, and Sthar.

Seriously just look up any non-large game where you have a scum full bulletproof and there's only one scumteam. The Mafia BP role is designed to counter town killers, not an SK that, no matter what the power, is already fucked over by the mere odds enough.

[Cho]

Was I wrong to assume we were both operating under the assumptions of Mafiascum design?

ika I do acknowledge and respect your offsite experience as stated before, but Ank/DRK/GiF/Sthar as reviewers and people with certain beliefs about how balance and design should be done; they subscribe more to Mafiascum mentality and design meta - in other words aim to make all factions have a good chance of winning, not by stacking PRs to increase the chances of things balancing out, but by finetuning them in less crazy ways that reward good play rather than action luck.

Mafia BP and a 2-Shot Strongman Serial Killer are 95% unlikely to coexist (like 75% if this was a large), and I don't think this setup is too power heavy in a new/variant way also by way of Mafiascum meta.

The point isn't meant to illustrate a possible 1v1 between SK and Mafia. It's that by giving Mafia a chance to have a Bulletproof, you're putting the SK on their own on the same level as only one mafia member out of a likely team of three. That's stacked against SK.

The possibility of Mafia BP in a single-scumteam game means either there's an SK with multiple overpowered role aspects to significantly give the chance to outplay mafia at night (which in turn leads to a stacked town PR group which we have no hint of) one of which must be at least a 2-shot bulletproof, or that there is no SK.

Also, Yukari's kill didn't go through last night. If my slot was really an SK (which we've agreed that if it were the case it'd need to be even more powerful than 2-shot Strongman) that needed to prove themselves as a vig immediately or get lynched the next day... seriously why wouldn't they just have strongman-killed Frogger. There's also the thing about how scum who think they're dying soon (which was likely for a player under such heavy suspicion as Yukari) will try to use their powers effectively immediately, it's just common sense.

[Cho]

I believe Grib. Just wish

Yes, I did try to shoot last night.

It'll be kind of funny if both Frogger and my target last night are both town. Otherwise scum probably just tied the noose tighter for themselves, twice.

Waiting on the 18th I guess.

[Cho]

Just wish he had waited to claim by just saying something like "I have a role related reason to wait until everyone's commented", or at least trying something to get stuff out of Hydrangea before she knew she'd been caught (i.e., claiming to be a Voyeur who targeted me and got a "Cho was roleblocked/manipulated" result, and seeing how Hydra reacted to that).

(This is me saying I believe she's scum, yes.)

[Cho]

(

Ank, Plum is still on your "Alive" list. The # is right, though.

)

2. Cho
5. Grib

10. ZZZX

7. ika
4. Fro99er

1. Bellaphant

9. Tere
3. dragonspawn

6. Hydrangea

That's where I stand. Bella down is where I'm vigging. I'm not shooting ZZZX. I'm not lynching ZZZX.

Also, in case anyone missed the memo, Plum confirmed multiple times that she saw me get roleblocked. So either I'm SK or Vig. Up to you (unless someone actually wants to listen to the perfectly valid setup spec from earlier again), but I personally think everything I've pushed so far has been blatantly town-motivated.

[Cho]

Roleblock speculation is on the table. Everything else is off.

Who's scum, Yukari or Frogmollie? Serious question.

I'm here, I'm here. I feel like I don't have the tools to use what information we have effectively. I feel like someone should know what the deal is with Frogmollie, like seriously, but it's not me and no one seems to have a slam dunk there (except . . . Yukari? Do you? Do you

really

?), which is frustrating.

That said, I agree 100% with Grib that it's either that Yukari got Roleblocked or that he's scum.

I'm tempted to just go along with what he's doing in response to that. Which would mean lynching Frogmollie.

It's the opposite of what you said, Yukari - Hydrangea defending Frogmollie increases odds of Hydrangea-scum if Frogmollie is Town, not if they're scum.

Mollie, why did you launch into speculah re who you'd have NK'd if you were scum? It's pointless WIFOM - like serious real WIFOM okay I'm using the buzzword for something meaningful here - so why?

personally I am going to look at who is on staying on the edges cos I am pretty sure there will be scum there. scum love 1v1s but scum are often uncertain on how to handle them during the aftermath so tend to hold back a bit to see where town herd mentality will go.

Correct.

And just because a couple of people have mentioned this, Andrius mentioned to me before the game even filled, in response to me saying something about my prior hiatus, that he didn't know how long he himself would be on the site, so I wasn't surprised when he replaced out. Could it have been influenced by his alignment? Possibly, probably had more to do with stuff unrelated to that, so &c.

One thing that strikes me looking back is the Day 1 Bookitty wagon. As it forms, even at four players {Grib, elusive, Metal Sonic, White Night Imagination} I don't think the unflipped there are scum and the flipped are both Town. This was when Bookitty was away V/LA. Still. So I was looking at the Bookitty wagon. Don't really trust Bellaphant via that. Started typing out what was wrong with her trajectory re Bookitty, but now I'm not sure at all. It's weird. Whatever. Basically the whole Bookitty wagon looks like it was Town-driven and either entirely or almost entirely (?) Town. Doesn't make Bookitty scum. But in light of the MS flip and the nature of competing wagons, it means something. Although to refocus on Bellaphant, her unvote and revote on MS seems a little bit sketchy to me. We never see what she processes of the info, which is why she unvotes in the first place . . . eh.

Based on Grib's view of how Yukari/Frogmollie Night stuff played out, at this point I think a Frogmollie lynch would be fine pending any exciting new revelations from Yukari's slot. Bookitty also looks like a good choice just based on wagons from Day 1, but I'll reread her regardless. The other under-the-radar players in due time.

Her first two posts of Day 2: Plum seeing Yukari got manipulated/roleblocked would narrow her possibilities down to me either being Vig getting roleblocked, or SK getting roleblocked. Plum's an experienced player who would know how to subtly crumb a result like this right off the bat.

[Cho]

Cho, re-read my posts today and see if you wanna vig me still, pls.

I'm not commenting on my vig choice further.

I don't think anyone else should comment on it further, either.

There are plenty of kill options for Mafia right now. Maybe they'll die without killing me. Maybe they won't and nip me too. It's up in the air, so let them suffer.

[Cho]

Then why would she say she's inclined to go along with Grib and lynch Frogmollie?

If she saw no kill targeting Mollie, that in no way would imply lynching Mollie would solve anything.

[Cho]

Plum is voyeur, so if they targeted me, they would have gotten no result (since Cho's attempt at me was blocked). Isn't that the case?

No result as in "no actions" (I'm assuming no actions otherwise she'd have reported something else weird if she had investigated you), not no result as in roleblocked.

[Cho]

I'm here, I'm here. I feel like I don't have the tools to use what information we have effectively. I feel like someone should know what the deal is with Frogmollie, like seriously, but it's not me and no one seems to have a slam dunk there (except . . . Yukari? Do you? Do you

really

?), which is frustrating. That said, I agree 100% with Grib that it's either that Yukari got Roleblocked or that he's scum. I'm tempted to just go along with what he's doing in response to that. Which would mean lynching Frogmollie.

Is it possible Mollie was protected?

I'm going to go with no.

Okaaaaaaay.

Never mind, just found this gem.

[Cho]

Bella moves up just under Grib on my list.

Final discussion. We're lynching Hydra and we all know it. There's nothing she could say to deter us from it, but even if she ends up flipping town and a PR, I'd still believe Grib is town. Scum on a 2/3 team doesn't enter Day 3 with a counterclaim-vulnerable positive result.

VOTE: Hydra

And I'm not going to wait another 3+ days for the inevitable.

[Cho]

But especially in light of what Grib pointed out, which I agree with, I'm definitely interested in pursuing ZZZX.

VOTE: ZZZX

The only thing he pointed out was me and X not scum together and PoE.. how does that push you to vote me tho is beyound my understanding.
VOTE: Plum they call dis da great omgus. I wana see you talk w/me about dis so I can dissect you soul uh I mean you true allignment.

I agree with Grib that it's unlikely that all scum were on the MS wagon at the end of Day 1, and you're far and away the scummiest of those who fit that description and are currently alive, the others being dead Town. What's not to get?

I'm here, I'm here. I feel like I don't have the tools to use what information we have effectively. I feel like someone should know what the deal is with Frogmollie, like seriously, but it's not me and no one seems to have a slam dunk there (except . . . Yukari? Do you? Do you

really

?), which is frustrating. That said, I agree 100% with Grib that it's either that Yukari got Roleblocked or that he's scum. I'm tempted to just go along with what he's doing in response to that. Which would mean lynching Frogmollie.

Is it possible Mollie was protected?

I'm going to go with no.

Sorry, I'm not following this: what have I got to do with Boo? I never voted that slot...Also, I unvoted, thought about the claim, realised it didn't change much, and the stuff about being mod-confirmed seemed like a gambit. I did explain that.

You had Bookitty under apparent scrutiny, went back and forth to some degree Day 1 (including asking multiple people to discuss their scumreads on her), listed her as a better target than Frogmollie in the event MS flipped Town and today . . . I'm not sure. You never voted Bookitty, sure, but there was an awful lot of hedging regarding it while you stayed on MS. I'm not sure what to make of it. Still trying to think it through. Maybe it just looks worse at the beginning of your ISO and then by the time I'm finished ctrl-F boo in your ISO I'm not sure whether I was seeing something relevant or not.

Tere, nice to see you. I'm not scum. And, uh, you can go ahead and vote me, I'm nowhere near anything. Or continue to intend to vote me. If you'd like to talk about me or to me about it, that's cool too.

I'm here, I'm here. I feel like I don't have the tools to use what information we have effectively. I feel like someone should know what the deal is with Frogmollie, like seriously, but it's not me and no one seems to have a slam dunk there (except . . . Yukari? Do you? Do you

really

?), which is frustrating. That said, I agree 100% with Grib that it's either that Yukari got Roleblocked or that he's scum. I'm tempted to just go along with what he's doing in response to that. Which would mean lynching Frogmollie.

Is it possible Mollie was protected?

I'm going to go with no.

Okaaaaaaay.

Never mind, just found this gem.

Frogger, Plum voyeured you Night 1 and got a negative result.

I really hope you're town because me being roleblocked AND you being mafia bulletproof is still plausible, setupwise - though that would mean you+mollie as scum expected yourselves to be voyeured.

[Cho]

Yes, I would. Hating scum goes in line with a willingness to risk death as scum, especially for her - she talked about it in some other game but it was something about how as scum she often uses bravado and stuff like that to win because otherwise her apathy for scum shows through.

The more I talk about this, the more worried I get. Let's just shut up and let ZZZX post then hammer.

[Cho]

The more I talk about this, the more worried I get.

You're getting paranoid like I do when I think I've solved a game. That's why I briefly flipped reads on ZZZX here, then flipped back. At least I finally KNOW you're town.

(you're also not SK because Yukari isn't that clever to claim vig as SK).

Please please please stop talking. You're pinging. Meta pinging. I don't want to be dragged any further into this paranoia black hole. Please stop.

[Cho]

Happy birthday Ank. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Ank.

[Cho]

omfg maybe ika is last scum? holy shit

Fuck fuck idek anymore.

[Cho]

Let cho nk who he want a if he really is a vig

^This. I'm going to fucking vig who I want, thank you very much. Fuck your reads fuck your yelling.