Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Hydrangea]

/confirm

[Hydrangea]

very sorry to have not engaged yet. Finishing off a uni assignment that is due today so these last few days I have barely been on mafia. After today I will have a chance to read and engage. Again apologies.

[Hydrangea]

Done with assignments, ready to get into this~

RQS Questions
If you’re town answer, if you don’t answer vig gets a nice clear headshot
1. Which element would you choose (theme related) – Water, Wind, or Warmth?
2. Choose a player you’ve played with already in this game and describe their town vs. scum meta
3. Choose a player you don’t know at all and ask them a question.

1. warmth
2. I haven't played with anyone before, aside from zzzx very briefly in a game I had to replace out of. couldn't say I could give any useful insight into zzzx as we barely played together and the game I left is still ongoing so I have no idea whether my reads on him then were correct.
3. Ika voting me won't motivate me, asking me questions to increase my engagement in the game will. Do you have any questions for me?
______________________________________________________________________________________________

Hydrangea, I'd like to see more from you tomorrow I guess. Are you new? What is your experience?

Relatively new, I have played two newbie games (there is another mini normal which I don't count cause I replaced out very quickly for RL reasons). My first newbie game I was town, it was a town win. My second newbie game I was scum, it was a scum win.
I have never played a theme game before so the setup is a little foreign to me.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

ika - your vote on me seems pretty weak considering how many other players there are with actual content to read and consider, you could have made a more informed decision based on people with content. But I don't fault you for doing something to try get me more into the game. Am I correct in assuming your vote on me stems from my lack of activity?
______________________________________________________________________________________________
short reads post

zzzx - null. From the little background I have on zzzx I find his play style to come across as scummy because it is quite lurky, but because this seems so common to him I disregard it as alignment indicative and thus have a hard time reading his play. For people who have good knowledge of zzzx what are your feelings on him thus far in the game?
metal sonic - scum lean*
grib - slight scum lean (note: grib thought their vote on plum was bad)
plum - town lean
yukari - scum lean*
andrius/singer/WNI/bookitty - null
elusive - slight town lean
frogging mollie - slight town lean
ika - slight town lean. I find your play style hard to decipher alignment indication from. Would be interested to know what people who know ika think of them at this point.

* considering MS is pushing a yukari lynch so hard I think I am perhaps wrong on at minimum one of these reads. But as stand alones I find them both scummy.


VOTE: Yukari

[Hydrangea]

yaaay yay yay!


thanks for voting yukari and supporting the sonic scumhunting trust!

can i help you with anything? ask me any questions?

i have good knowledge of zzzx. he is town for me. he is evaluating the game, and i also feel that scum-him wont go "you're wanting to policy lynch me? you're town". also, i am happy that he trusts me and is voting yukari too

you are right that ika is hard to decipher alignment from. but for ~reasons~ i read him as quite town.

why do you have singer as null? has she not posted enough to get a read on her?

i think i'm good for the moment... there is probably a setup question that I had which has escaped me, if i remember I will ask.

I forget who it was who said it, but I recall reading someone question ika's involvement thus far in the game and that they are usually more involved. Are you finding that to be so at all? Or still a solid town read?

that group of null reads (apart from zzzx which i left separate on purpose) is not that I have no opinion on their play it is just that I don't want to comment yet as I would like to go over their play one more time and check their iso. I've only just caught up in reading so a few players slipped from my mind. My null reads are those players I lost concentration on, so yeah wanting to go back again and then give a better opinion.

[Hydrangea]

ika - your vote on me seems pretty weak considering how many other players there are with actual content to read and consider, you could have made a more informed decision based on people with content. But I don't fault you for doing something to try get me more into the game. Am I correct in assuming your vote on me stems from my lack of activity?

before i forget about this

yes it does, my vote did stem from your lack of activity. how many gaames of mafia have you played?

town or scum?

got any reads yet?

All those are answered in the 281 you pulled your quote from

[Hydrangea]

^ im also interested in the WNI read, Z.

[Hydrangea]

So many people leaning scum on Bookitty; so little actual pressure on the slot. Amazing.

i'm seeing bookitty as pretty null right now, not a lot to analyse. Would really like to see a reads list from them though.

[Hydrangea]

@Yukari, what is it about plum that is scummy? I am town reading them.

[Hydrangea]

Metal Sonic, I actively dislike your presence in this game. It's a weird mixture of AtE, showboating, theater for the sake of theater and I haven't had chance to meta you but you look scummy as hell. The only thing holding me back is the question, "Why would scum create such drama around themselves?"

perhaps in an attempt to make their play seem too risky to be scummy. Not sure thats what it is but just a thought. I have limited game experience but from what i've seen scum seem to be more conservative in their approach. That being said I definitely am not finding MS town-like so i'm not really relying on my 'conservative' read anymore. But yeah, just a thought if it helps.

[Hydrangea]

So many people leaning scum on Bookitty; so little actual pressure on the slot. Amazing.

i'm seeing bookitty as pretty null right now, not a lot to analyse. Would really like to see a reads list from them though.

All the more reason to poke at her.

true, I can't disagree with that. As I said, would definitely like to see a read list to get a feel for where their head is at in the game.

[Hydrangea]

Hydrangea, hi. I'm bad at reading new-ish people. Because of that, among other things, I think you might be scum. You've been kinda defensive (or maybe 'passive' is a better word) from the get-go. Do me a favor and show some town initiative (487 is a good start but that's such an easy question) or show me you're trying to figure out the game. Maybe ask your nullreads questions and try to figure out their alignments?

yeah sorry I have noticed my own passivity. Trying to be active at the moment and engage. Finding it a bit difficult to find a good balance in reconciling the amount of reads people are getting from knowing each other from previous games. As you probs know, no one really knows each other in newbie games... or at least not to this extent. It is difficult for me to read people when so much info is coming from outside of this game sphere.

hense why i'm trying to prompt bookitty to give a reads list because that is something I can interact with.

pedit: is your question about bellaphant directed at me?

[Hydrangea]

Actually, here: ask Bellaphant three questions that will help you get a better read on her. Pretty please.

i'm going to presume this question was for me. If it wasn't for me my bad... probably a good idea for me to get in the habit of doing something along these lines anyway

@Bellaphant

1. Why do you find yukari townish? Is it because you consider MS to be ovs-scum? If it is that is there any other reason that you find them null-towny, or if it isn't that what are your reasons?
2. If you consider MS ovs-scum why aren't you voting him?
3. Your vote is still on ZZZX via Andrius who previously inhabited your slot... do you intend to move it to MS or keep it on ZZZX? If your keeping it on Z can you explain why you find them more scummy than MS?

[Hydrangea]

That request was meant for you.

Why are you voting Yukari over Sonic? Why did you ask Yukari to help you clarify your read on Plum if you think Yukari is scum?

because even though I consider them scummy nothing is 100% and there is increasing questions around MS being possible scum... I'm wanting to see yukari's though process on other players to help me get a better view of them. It is putting me off slightly that if MS is scum then I don't think they would be pushing yukari like this which is giving me some doubts.

[Hydrangea]

i am going to eat 10 chill pills and not post in this game until I get prodded


VOTE: bookitty

This is the only wagon in the game where I am 100% sure that there are no scum on the current wagon. Yukari wagon is good too but my supporters are getting chainsawed.

Sorry elusive, I didn't leave a good first impression for you. This game was drastically contrary to how I planned to play.

Are you voting boo because you actually think they could be scum, or just because no one ''scum'' is voting them? You have been pushing yukari for pages now, seems pretty weak to move away from that to vote someone you have barely touched on when considering how hard you were pushing a yukari lynch.

[Hydrangea]

could you give a key for your colour scheme grib

[Hydrangea]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

[Hydrangea]

Regardless of my own leans of MS, I am just not understanding all this drama around the replace out, fake or otherwise. What is the scum motivation behind that? Because I personally cannot see how a move to replace out, be it genuine or theatrics can help ascertain an alignment indication. What is MS's scum motivation behind this? I'm not seeing it.

- Am I just missing the obvious? Cause all this reading based on meta I have no knowledge of has got me pretty jumbled at this point.

[Hydrangea]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

to clarify this question is directed at both heads of your hydra rather than just you yourself.

[Hydrangea]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

to clarify this question is directed at both heads of your hydra rather than just you yourself.

im ninjaing/garciaing this and you could start by voting MS

what does ninjaing/garciaing mean?

MS is not my top scum lean, thus far I am unsatisfied with mollie's push, which is the strongest in favour of an MS lynch. I disagree with some of her connections to alignment indication.

[Hydrangea]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

to clarify this question is directed at both heads of your hydra rather than just you yourself.

im ninjaing/garciaing this and you could start by voting MS

what does ninjaing/garciaing mean?

MS is not my top scum lean, thus far I am unsatisfied with mollie's push, which is the strongest in favour of an MS lynch. I disagree with some of her connections to alignment indication.

garciaing is when someon answers else answers the question that was directed at soemoen else (ie you asked mollie a question i answered it before she could) ninja is sometimes used in its place

im telling you that mollie would give you much more if you did but *shrugs* if you dont want to you loss.

do you have meta or games/links to disprove it cus elusive has linked and given the meta case as well

Maybe it's just cause its getting late here, but what do you mean sorry? Meta on what?

Do you mean meta to disprove MS is scum? Because no I have no meta.

If we are talking meta then I should probably outline my stance on meta as tenuous. Meta can so easily be manipulated if a person is aware of how they play.

[Hydrangea]

TOP

will respond when get home

kk, I am finishing off an assignment so I will probably be up for quite a few more hours. Will try and remain on till you are back.

[Hydrangea]

Maybe it's just cause its getting late here, but what do you mean sorry? Meta on what?

Do you mean meta to disprove MS is scum? Because no I have no meta.

If we are talking meta then I should probably outline my stance on meta as tenuous. Meta can so easily be manipulated if a person is aware of how they play.

Yes thats what im talking about.

How about this: do you have him as town? if so what is the town case for him? if you do not there is no reason to not be voting him. Even if he is arguably a "lesser" scum read, scum is still scum. And im telling you right fucking now thta he is scum and that there is no way he would do this shit as town.

If you want to talk abotu meta, while yes people can maipulate it, they still follow a set trait.

No I have him as my second scum read under Yukari. You make a fair point and Mollie's 687 is much more clear for me and I can believe her proposition on scum motivation. As yukari is looking like not a viable option for this day phase I will go with my second option.

VOTE: MS (L-1 I believe)

@ika and mollie if MS flips scum who do you see as a possible partner and what would it make you think about Yukari's slot? (cause it would make me think I was wrong about yukari as scum).
Also if MS flips town what is your read on yukari?

[Hydrangea]

also Ika if MS flips town are you willing or inclined to consider Mollie as possible scum? cause I think that is a very viable option. I ask because you seem to be hard reading Mollie as town.

[Hydrangea]

also Ika if MS flips town are you willing or inclined to consider Mollie as possible scum? cause I think that is a very viable option. I ask because you seem to be hard reading Mollie as town.

This is a very leading question. How will you feel if he flips scum? Why do you care if someone else reads Mollie one way? If FM is scum their alignment won't change, "you'd" just need to prove why. It looks like you're trying to get someone to agree to something that's not been proven, yet.
(I put "you'd" in quote for purposes of illustrating that it's true of anyone who's trying to get a lynch through, not like I'm implying hydrangea holds the burden of proving life >_>)

If he flips scum I will definitely reconsider how I view yukari.

I don't mean for it to be leading. I am outlining my stance and asking a question at the same time. I am not trying to lead ika to answer in a particular way.

I care how someone reads mollie because I am still having difficulty with that slot and as ika is a role I believe to be town i am interested in their read.

I am not trying to make someone agree with something and I think the way you are describing what I have said is simply tainting it rather than expressing fact.

[Hydrangea]

I think it would be a shame if you replaced out. You seem to have put a large effort into this game, would be a shame if you felt you had to leave that behind.

[Hydrangea]

One thing I'm really not liking is the "If so-and-so flips town I'm coming after _____." It's like a threat without a purpose, because OBVIOUSLY when someone flips town we always look at the wagon on that person. I think you're town, for instance, Mollie, and if they manage to lynch you and you flip that way, I could make similar threats. Same with me: if I'm lynched, then the people pushing that are going to look worse too.

But the fact is that scum usually AREN'T the ones initiating wagons on town. They'll push it, sure, but they don't start it in my experience (rarely, I wouldn't say never). So acting like that's alignment indicative is somewhat suspicious to me all on its own.

(And yeah, I read that game, WNI, but it's pretty different imo than what's gone on here. MS has legitimately done things that people (not just Mollie) have found suspicious and that's a major difference right there.)

WNI has made me think they are town, though, by actually addressing some issues instead of just bandwagoning and yelling. I'm still really happy with my Yukari vote, even though no one else seems to agree with me.

I would like to hear from Ika about his views on neighborhood interactions with MS, please.

I agree with you on yukari vote. If enough people vote yukari I will place my vote back there. When (and now that) i placed my vote on MS it is because after yukari they are my second lean and it really appears that yourself and ms are the only options. But I would pref yukari and would support a wagon if it gets going.

[Hydrangea]

the wagon can comprise of the following players (Grib, elusive, WNI, Yukari, ZZZX, Singer) + me and WE CAN GET A MOLLIE LYNCH TODAY

these are the candidates to join the award winning wagon.


i do not care much about what hydrangea or bookitty has said above^. so fluffy, so useless

fluff it may be, but i like to show support towards a player who has indicated they feel pushed to leave a game. One olive branch in their direction isn't going to hurt anyone.

[Hydrangea]

this wagon on mollie is just bad. Like if MS flipped town sure I would be more tentative of the slot.
this is my thinking:

example 1. Mollie town - MS scum

- yay happy days, nice push mollie.
- would definitely make me see mollie as my top town read.

example 2. mollie town - ms town
- not so happy days, especially for mollie.
- but can only see town pushing someone this hard for near on 30 - 40 pages because there is always a chance of someone flipping the other way and I don't think scum is as likely to take that kind of a risk as town would be. Cause if ms flips town the first person to be considered is the person who pushed the wagon the hardest (at least it is for me)

example 3. mollie scum - ms town
- I cannot see scum taking that much of a risk.

Mollie being lynched day one is not optimal in my opinion. I don't see scum acting the way mollie is.


... idk if the above is very clear, I have a bit of trouble expressing myself when I am tired and it's 1:30am here.

[Hydrangea]

- but can only see town pushing someone this hard for near on 30 - 40 pages because there is always a chance of someone flipping the other way and I don't think scum is as likely to take that kind of a risk as town would be. Cause if ms flips town the first person to be considered is the person who pushed the wagon the hardest (at least it is for me)

example 3. mollie scum - ms town
- I cannot see scum taking that much of a risk.

scum can push someone this hard for 30-40 pages because they dont have to really scumhunt. they dont have to give reads or analyse other players. just full out tunnel attack.

the problem is that she never expected so much resistance and pieguy to fight her on it and blow up the whole thing.


imagine if pieguy was not in this game. i would have been lynched already, and mollie (if scum) would get away scot free.

so, no.

it was a very good risk-reward. i even got to l-2. and with certain dumb pple who may defend her tomorrow with "oh its mollie town - metal town!", she can even escape.


i think your post is quite wrong. mollie is scum bullshitting and misrepping her way through.

ok you disagree, your prerogative. I am just going off my own game experience, I just have not experienced scum pushing that hard and that effects my read to the above.

[Hydrangea]

maybe this is wishful thinking but i think this game will get less grinding once D2 comes around and we have tangible flips to work with. At the moment the problem is it's still all smoke and mirrors till we get something concrete.

[Hydrangea]

Still thinking Mollie is town after all that, but I'm going back to re-read.

[Hydrangea]

Still thinking Mollie is town after all that, but I'm going back to re-read.

Just earned yourself another scum point.

[Hydrangea]

Still thinking Mollie is town after all that, but I'm going back to re-read.

Just earned yourself another scum point.

We would like to ask you WHY you think mollie is town, but would prefer you and everyone else refrain from attempting to defend her at least until she gets to speak for herself.
Defending her period atm b4 she even has a chance to speak for herself is worth a little scum cred, but doing so without giving any reason at all as to why you think she is town, that's even worse.

I want to re-read anyway so by the time I'm ready to post mollie will probs have been on.

[Hydrangea]

I may be prolonging the inevitable the way things are going, but after my re-read of Mollie's slot I still think they are town. There is no way in my mind scum pushes that hard on just one player. The effort put in paints a massive target on their back once that person flips town... which is exactly whats playing out here. I cannot see a player as experienced as mollie being ovs-scum like this.

And can on another note can we just back away from the 'worship' bullshit. I find Ika's no-compromise position on Mollie a bit misguided and even frustrating, but I also find Ika's loyalty to Mollie endearing. Its a crap argument to taint people on the basis of so-called 'worship' because it is 100% subjective on how each of us views their bond, so whats the point of going on about it. Just leave it go before everyone ends up in a fight.

[Hydrangea]

@yukari with newbie games you can still replace into newbie slots even if you have had your two newbie games so if you are dead keen on a newbie game and don't mind replacing you should keep your eye on the queue, spots for replacement players pop up all the time.

[Hydrangea]

VOTE: zzzx your level of lurkety lurking is getting to high for comfort
feel like doing a beetlejuice and appearing?

[Hydrangea]

hydraflower - I am struggling with this read too, but she sort of reminds me of honeybee in drawn on arrival?

boo what do you think?

I don't understand the honeybee thing?

[Hydrangea]

Game-relevant and towny.

Makes sense.

Looks like I'm caught up for now.

@plum what do you think of zzzx now that he was pushed to L1 so quickly? What do you think of Bella?

@Bella your excuse for pushing zzzx to L1 was not being good at math? Seriously? Do you still think zzzx is scum? What do you think of plum?

@cho what do you think of plum and Bella? What about hydra?

@hydra what do you think of the above three? Who are your biggest scum reads?

@bookitty what do you think of the zzzx wagon and the above people.

@everyone mentioned plus grib what do you think of boo?

I think plum is town. Bella is a slight scum lean, as is yukari/cho.

my biggest scum reads would be cho, bella, and zzzx. Boo is kinda a question mark, but gut says town.

[Hydrangea]

@Mod I will be on v/la till the 9th for uni.

[Hydrangea]

@cho, I am curious as to why you think yukari claiming unprompted makes your alignment so obvious? You keep pushing this comftown angle, but there is nothing conftown about your slot imo. Yukari's unprompted claim was so unnecessary at that stage and I am still struggling to understand their motivation.

[Hydrangea]

tere was it you who asked me about plum? someone did...

i have a slight town lean on them, tere I am not seeing obvscum here. My gut read would be demotivated town. they remind me of a friend I play with a fair bit on site so some of my feelings are gut because I am reminded of my friend's town game. Plum (D1 at least) was quite transparent with their thought process and their votes in connection with their reads don't ping as scummy for me. For instance their discussion of MS round #717 I remember reading at the time and it made me feel good about plum. Yes MS eventually flipped town but they were playing a fricking weird game so I don't see that as invalidating the vibes I got about those posts.
I think their D2 performance reads more as demotivated town than obvious scum. I can empathise and believe plum is just not digging this game at the moment.

@tere you clearly have doubts about me, best way to engage me is just to ask me direct questions if you like. I have been pretty demotivated since D1 disaster-fest that was. Asking me questions is something I like to encourage people to do in games where they feel i'm cruising because it gives me drive to focus where they want me to. So any questions?

[Hydrangea]

im just more questioning vig vs BP+RB in general

Me too.

The one problem I have with my Frogger townread is mollie's replace out. I could easily see it as partially coming from the mollie that hates being scum because it also felt... weird and unprompted. But then idk because that slot's been so fucking town to me. :/

Mollie's replace out looked like frustrated town imo.

[Hydrangea]

Thx for the game ank.
Thx everyone for playing with me on my first non-newbie game :3 was a lot of fun.

I'm sorry I wasn't there for the last day before I was lynched, I was actually in transit to Venice. So I'm sorry if my absence was frustrating.