Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Frogging Mollie]

/confirm

[Frogging Mollie]

from last night:

okay I am cranky

I am locked out of the hydra cos either my computer, chrome or ms are being retarded so i am just going to make a quick post to get us into the game. sorry for posting out of hydra but I am srsly locked out. hopefully we can fix this tomorrow.

hi andy!

I invited zzthing and he said in sign-ups that he was gonna try so give him a chance yeah? leave him to ika and I, I am pretty sure we can sort him. also we are town this time and you will probs be able to spot the difference in my approach compared to cotw or mebbe you will be 1 of those pple who never figure me out. we will see I guess.

my hydra partner is new so be gentle.

@ metal

why are you sheeping ika and asking andy who he knows? y no reach out huh?

I will quote this tomorrow when my account is not possessed so that it shows up in our iso (or I will get froggy to).

Hi mollie! <3

Sheeping ika because he is ika

I need to get a read on Andy! He is one of my top priority targets to sort! If he is town (I already have a town read on him) then it is advantageous to town, and we should collaborate reads and work together.



I was waiting for you to check in Mollie!!! :):) so here is my counter reach out

okay so when did you decide that he was town? if it is for the reasons I think it is then your question about who he is familiar with is not "sorting him out" cos you were townreading him before then so that really does not answer the question as to why you were asking him in the first place. its a weird question that looks like scumhunting but isn't.

nor do I understand the reasoning behind sheeping ika and "cos he is ika" does not cut it.

Mollie who is frogger? Do you know him RL, else how do you guys meet and why did you hydra

^ another vacuous question but I will answer it.

yes I know froggy IRL. he is glork's brother and singer's BIL. so he is basically family.

he had a not so fun newbie experience so I wanted to show him another side to the site and to give him some pointers on how to navigate forum mafia.

again I apologize for the out of hydra post but we will pick this up as soon as we are able to.

[Frogging Mollie]

Ribbit!

Hi everyone. Fro99er half of Frogging Mollie here. Just introducing myself. I've played about 3-4 real life mafia games with Mollie/Singer and some others not in this game. Only one forum mafia game complete (newbie 1593) - did fairly well D1 and most of D2. Got frustrated D3. Hence hydra-ing with Mollie felt like a good move to learn a bit more. I'm in two other newbie games now as well. I'd consider myself a quick learner though.

[Frogging Mollie]

Ok i got called into work so im going to make it breif:

mollie, im town too. here my gameplan:

sort out elusive
sort out grib
sort out you (shouldnt be long)

i have sevral lgith town reads already on grib and elusive for meta reasons.

y am i not first

i am moving on though to more serious stuff:

VOTE: singer

no comments but only confirmations?

mollie, i am presuming you can sort singer fast? i have little experince with her so im seeing how much you know

not as fast as I can sort metal

VOTE: metal

[Frogging Mollie]

@ plum

I think I might like you!

I had just told fro99er that I was voting him cos of his sucking up to ika and asking pointless questions that lead nowhere in lieu of authentic scumhunting and then there is this aTe of pure gold:

frogger is cute!

mollie i hate your push on me. it is disgusting and your angle makes me feel all sorts of uneasy. you are not town yet.

I am feeling pretty good about this!

edited to replace real name
-quadz

[Frogging Mollie]

@pie

okay, looks like you will have to sign.

also, maybe i am getting rebound syndrome but mollie's push on me without trying to interact with me in a meaningful way is really disgusting. it reminds me of a recent game.

@ mollie:

i am assuming nick refers to me? cos when the hell did you ever refer to me as nick

and what are you feeling pretty good about? about your vote on me or are you like townreading me now. gold sounds like a good thing

erm

pretty sure posts 25 and 29 were me ineracting with you, yeah? so that is a

lie

. i thought your responses were crappy so i voted you.

nick is froggy. I had just got done explaining to froggy as to why I was voting you and making sure he was okay with that. and I feel good about you being scum for the reasons that I stated. gold is a good thing cos i think your OMGUS is scummy as fuck. hitting scum is hitting gold to me.

@ singer

game link: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=60270

you shld read abr's post game meltdown where he rages about his team, the players and the mod it is pretty epic.

I don't really care if my post comes across as self-conscious or not. the motivation behind my posts shld be the indicator not any attachment you have to what you perceive as a scumtell which isn't actually a scumtell. neither is bad grammar. but I trust you will get a better grasp as the game progresses.

@ zzthing

do you really have metal as town like holy shit batman wtf

Have I slipped into some bizarre parallel universe where people take the RQS business at least semi-seriously?

see I am pretty sure that I have wandered into this alternate universe where pple don't know how to scumhunt but then I remember how I find myself here all of the time.

so far metal has yet to make a correct statement about our history or interactions and it bugs me.

while I am on the subject of what is bugging me:

- singer saying she has only played with me but then later saying that she has played with some1 else? but it feels like a shiny thing so I am not jumping on it. also I don't understand the zzthing vote and how that was not rvs. I am waiting to discern the motivations behind her posts in order to get a clearer picture but that might take a bit.
- ika saying he is gonna go out drinking with his friends in an hour it is like 12 pm where he lives.

eta: xposts

[Frogging Mollie]

also I am probs not gonna answer elusive's questions I think they are pointless and idc if she thinks it is a scumclaim. it isn't. it is me wanting to get shit done cos I usually have the lifespan of a housefly when I am town and I don't have time to cater things that I don't feel like is particularly meaningful.

mebbe I am just uncreative.

[Frogging Mollie]

ika, I think you are townreading metal for dumb reasons.

don't hand me that "OMG HE DROPPED A SPESHUL TELL" cos he deliberately did that shit in organic and he is lying about what is going on here between he and I. he is catering his game to you by kissing your ass and you are gobbling it up like candy! I think you underestimate scum!metal he knows how to meta dodge (I told froggy this in gchat).

[Frogging Mollie]

@mollie...hoooooooboy. We're gunna have to get real here. First off, you're cherry-picking my general statement of me not being able to read you well because I tend to be easily influenced by posting style over content, which has made me a less-than-confident player, which you know. Second of all, I'm not sure how you got me saying that you're hyper-aware of your meta as saying I thought you were over-sensitive about it, but I believe you when you say you don't care. Maybe you will if you're going to get mislynched for it, who knows.

And I fucking hate it when people are like "I trust you to do the right thing" because it manipulates someone to read you a certain way by automatically influencing their subconscious with the illusion of ooomustbetown. I think "fearmongering" is an appropriate buzzword? (I really don't know if that applies as much as I think it does)

I forgot ZZZX was in RRR, so oooshiney all you want? If you try making that a scumtell it'll just make my job easier.

Why don't you let Fro99er take more of a lead? Maybe be more transparent with his thoughts?

froggy wanted to vote you so that we cld get a read on you. do you know what I told him? I said that you were an emotional player and its best to give you time rather than wagon you off the bat cos it was likely to set you off if you were town and interfere with your scumhunting. then I said let other pple wagon you that way if you flip out it won't be on us.

I think that we can read you based off of your interactions with other players and I wld like to give you some space. shld I have let you get wagoned up? froggy will make his entrance when he is ready. right now fresh out of newbies he is probs going like "wtf is going on".

I was not cherry picking. I was addressing a direct statement about me and pointing out that

style /= scum

I only addressed what was directed to me cos the rest was directed towards other players and I didn't feel it necessary to interfere?

also the hyper awareness piece came from this statement:

Could you link to the game? I'm not gunna lie, mollie, I really don't like when people right out of the gate have a sense of hyper-awareness of how they play from game to game. It's statements like these that already ping my paranoia.

^ that sort of implies that you think I am being oversensitive about it and you find it scummy or am I wrong?

also

shiny /= scumtell

for me, shiny things are things that in my paranoid mind I easily latch onto and convince myself that somehow they are scum motivated. this is something I have been trying to correct in my play for a while with pretty good success. so I acknowledge the shiny things but don't latch onto them like I used to.

also saying "I trust you to come to the right conclusion" is not fearmongering, fearmongering is saying there is a 4th scumteam and that the game is a 1:2.47 scum to town ratio and trying to lynch pple based on that reasoning when there is no evidence to indicate that is even remotely true. its what scum!titus tried to do in hu2.

I lean town on you cos I like some of your angles and they point to a town mindset even if I disagree with some of them. 1 point that I liked is that scum tend to want to stretch out the confirm/rvs stage in order to organize themselves cos I know I sure as hell have done that as scum I have dragged out the confirm stage until the mod pms me and is like "really". <---- this is what I mean by your thinking seems to come from a town mindset.

eta: ffs xposts

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie please sign ur hydras posts btw

It should be easy to tell who is Mollie and who is Fro99er.

[Frogging Mollie]

grib, what are you?

I am the Witchhunter.

(town)

is this 1 of those dumb fakeclaims where you try to fish out players based on the roleclaim when all it does is successfully out speshuls due to set-up design? its like fishing off of a vt role pm and it shld never be done. hai metal

god I wish you pple wld stop doing this. it never works out and then you wonder why scum win so many games you play in.

you are in the unsure pile

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie please sign ur hydras posts btw

It should be easy to tell who is Mollie and who is Fro99er.

before I address other posts I just want to point out that zzthing knew it was me but wanted us to sign our posts cos he seemed a bit confused about who was posting.

that is all.

[Frogging Mollie]

you're on the wrong track here

what MS is saying is that while, yes, you are interacting with him, none of the questions you're asking him are particularly good or useful

WAT

do you think that metal's question's are particularly useful?

[]yes
[]no

cos if you think my responses were not "good" or "useful" then you wld have to address the questions themselves in the first place which you seem reluctant to do? cos you are saying it is not alignment indicative and I am not sure how you are getting there cos at the time of his posting he was asking inane questions which have nothing to do with scumhunting and I am wondering how you are missing that.

I don't like this post. I'm fairly sure the questions she asked require basically 0 effort to answer. in fact, I think this post would have required more effort to make than actually answering the questions. this reads more like you're attempting to appear like you want to be productive, without actually accomplishing anything.

I think answering the questions are more of an attempt to look productive than not really feeling like I need to answer the questions at all.

good to know that elusive is probs town, thanks for that.

do you think she wouldn't think to fake "/hope" as scum?

what in her first game post was town?

like how do these 2 sentences even match up with a cognitive flow. he said that he read her as town cos of "/hope" confirm but then you question as to what in her first game post that he found townie? when he said it was her first game post?

this does not even make sense.

[Frogging Mollie]

Do you have a townread on Mollie?

What about meeeee???

Anyway, you're town. Mollie and I sorted you separately and came to the same conclusion.

Not sure what to make of Grib. Just some meta in 21. Post 91 some town reads (two from meta, and then MS as well) and replying to Singer's inquiry. Then tunnels Singer the rest of the posts. Hasn't done any scumhunting yet. In the uneasy camp for me.

Yukari is WTF for me. I sort of sympathized with them from the relative newbie standpoint, but I'm not confused by the setup. Msg to scum in 116 feels...scummy? No scumhunting from them yet in their limited posts, just a bunch of WTF stuff. Scumlean for me.

Plum is town. The questioning Ika about keeping us around until D2 feels town motivated. 108 is town motivated as well, especially the part about meta being quite opaque, and not helping her get reads. That's exactly how I feel as someone with absolutely zero meta other than Singer. All the meta is just null as shit to me. I'm just trying to sort out motivation behind posts, and Plum is very town motivated.

[Frogging Mollie]

This post could have just been you answering RQS questions instead of passive aggressively being passive aggressive but okey dokey smokey.

I don't think I was being passive aggressive I am pretty sure I am being openly aggressive by saying that your questions are not worth responding to.

Singer

, I'll look through my games on here that are complete but I think Guy's theory isn't quite accurate. It depends on the scum personality and I've seen scum post early on because the earlier they post the less serious they have to be. I find that you trying to be the first to confirm is a bit weird,

why the focus on appearing town or not fitting a theory that is probably less then quantitatively based?

singer was the second last to be confirmed so what are you even talking about here.

Plum

, there's two ways to look at it. This is a social game and I like to know who I'm playing with. Knowing things about people (or fluff as you might call it) usually results in treating them like a person and being comfortable with more jokey\fluff. I apologize in advance but I like fluff and fluff a lot.

Usually I kind of put people who don't answer in the category of uncooperative without any good reason to be so.

Grib

<3
I'm also waiting to establish a scum meta, RNG kind of hates me so I might have to wrangle some Mods' arms behind their backs or try cookie bribes or something.

Bookitty has hit my radar a bit, let's see what comes next whether she gets closer to the red signal at the center or veers off.

White Night Imagination, I want to know the story behind your name. If Singer was questioning people why put the vote in a way that doesn't align with her questioning? There is a bit of discord between questioning a person, maybe pressuring them but putting the vote someone else.

you srsly don't know what you are doing do you.

Hydrangea, I'd like to see more from you tomorrow I guess. Are you new? What is your experience?

Yukari, I'm a bit confused here. You don't like my cheeky comment about people who don't answer RQS being in line for the vig's sniper rifle? I enjoy little things like that. Also fyi I rarely ever reveal my role in obvious ways like that. If I'm crumbing it will be in a way that makes it

elusive

for anyone but those who its intended to.

ika, please don't jinx this game . I adore how engaged people are you don't know how horrific it is to be in a game where out of 13 players only 3 are active and trying to figure out the game.

mebbe pple are bored with trite questions I dunno tho. I prefer game relevant questions, do you have any?

[Frogging Mollie]

singer if you are town (and we think you are!) I really need you to focus here. I have a recently completed game with zzthing hint hint.

I swear to god I can't find it. Above the part I quoted, you poke Hydrangea and don't talk about ZZZX. Above that, you poke ika and don't talk about ZZZX. Above that, you talk about your 'scum like to delay pregame' theory, but you talk about yourself, not ZZZX. Above that, you poke about elusive and don't talk about ZZZX.

Point it out for me and I'll feel stupid later.

hey grib hey.

lets apply the same logic in your above post to what you are doing with elusive yeah?

do you think elusive is trying to scumhunt in her own special way? cos singer is doing so too but hers makes more sense to me mebbe it is a site meta issue?

[Frogging Mollie]

Froggerson, elusive's questions are relevant for learning her alignment. Being antagonistic will just make her tunnel you.

Plus, you sound like a buzzkill.

That was Mollie. This is Frog. But, I've been known to be a buzzkill anyway, so I'll wear it with pride.

Singer

, I'll look through my games on here that are complete but I think Guy's theory isn't quite accurate. It depends on the scum personality and I've seen scum post early on because the earlier they post the less serious they have to be. I find that you trying to be the first to confirm is a bit weird,

why the focus on appearing town or not fitting a theory that is probably less then quantitatively based?

singer was the second last to be confirmed so what are you even talking about here.

Gotta say I agree with elusive. Especially as a statistician for a living, I don't see quantitative basis for it in a game where deception is a part of it. There's a whole bunch of WIFOM possible with trying to /confirm early, or it could just be town. So I see elusive's point. Maybe there's some merit to the theory for newbies though. But yeah, singer's still town AND I agree with elusive on the theory side.

RQS Questions
If you’re town answer, if you don’t answer vig gets a nice clear headshot
1. Which element would you choose (theme related) – Water, Wind, or Warmth?
2. Choose a player you’ve played with already in this game and describe their town vs. scum meta
3. Choose a player you don’t know at all and ask them a question.

Unlike my other head, I'll play.

1. Warmth, cuz I'm from the south.
2. Singer, but I've never played with scum!singer, and only town!singer twice. Not much meta to go by other than knowing her RL personality <3
3. Ika - what's your impression of me so far?

Pedit:

Also, does anyone else want to go through their completed games and figure out if there is some ratio of scum early posting or delaying posting?

stats geek. I'd be interested in the results, but don't have the time.

[Frogging Mollie]

Singer, why did you feel the need to confirm asap (my bad on stating first I meant trying to confirm quickly) because of a theory? Or do you know what I'm saying? Why need to appear town based on an unproven theory rather then just be comfortable being town and doing actions that are more solid with town?

Mollie, try to let newbie speak more because that arrogant bs you pulled in DOA well it was annoying

then and it will be in this game if you keep it up. At least ika has some charm to back up his particular spelling\grammar choices yours just scream some lack of idk awareness. Also just because ika likes you doesn't matter jack to me so kudos on descending into the uncouth so quickly.

wat annoying arrogant bs

do you mean the part where we lynched scum!ika d1 and scum!shaft d2 cos I really wanted them? or the part where I said vonny shld be the d3 lynch?

my god I have seen the light I am so annoying that we had 3 scum lynches in a row

I must endeavor to correct the errors of my ways.

heads up - don't make it a site war cos that is unfun for every1.

like I have a townread on you and the only conclusion that I can draw is that you want to be petty cos of something from doa?

singer is looking at the edges in case you are confused.

[Frogging Mollie]

Pedit:

Also, does anyone else want to go through their completed games and figure out if there is some ratio of scum early posting or delaying posting?

stats geek. I'd be interested in the results, but don't have the time.

Stats geeks are also bad at reading sometimes. Obviously my one game sample size won't help.

[Frogging Mollie]

heads up - don't make it a site war cos that is unfun for every1.

I'm going to try to refrain from getting into a belittling match with you

So we're in agreement then let's not have any wars. There's a reason I self-hammered D3...didn't find my newbie game fun at that point. I want to have fun here.

I like elusive, she brings a fun approach to theory. I will say, if we're using occam's razor (on a personal note, I think I see too much appeal to occam's razor in this game) then I think singer's telling the truth that she /confirm'd only to confirm quickly and not appear scum. I trust that she believes in GIF's theory, and it's not like the theory is completely bunk. It makes sense if people are actually playing straight up. The problem comes in with WIFOM. Could singer be WIFOMing us with it? Sure. But I don't believe singer to do that. In fact, I have RL reason to believe her quick confirm is legit.

I also believe elusive to be town trying to sort alignment from it. I feel good about both singer and elusive town.

Either way, it would be cool to see some numbers on said theory.

[Frogging Mollie]

Hey, Froggypie, 139 has a thing for you to answer.

You were addressing Mollie half. I'll let her answer it.

[Frogging Mollie]

Isn't the point of hydra'ing that you review and discuss everything with each other, but answer as one head? Or is that a stylistic option?

I think you can figure it out.

Besides...as an absolute and complete newb, there's no way I could answer your question anyway. If it's the one I think you're asking in 139.

[Frogging Mollie]

To avoid this being rated as a spampost: frogger, how independent are you at playing the game and hunting scum?

Quite. Newbie 1593. I pegged scum D1. I pegged scum in a RL game with singer (nacho). I'm Glork's brother, a scumhunting master. I'd like to think I've got half as good genes as him.

How confident are you at finding scum without handholding from mollie?

I don't need handholding. I'm not afraid to make mistakes...it just took me a while to respond at first because I was trying to dig through a bunch of meta I didn't understand (and I wasn't used to the pace either). But I do appreciate learning more about mafia theory from Mollie. That is the reason I hydra'd with her. It's also nice to be in a game outside of newbie hell.

Because she is setting a wrong example by calling me scum (not a bad example cause all mistake can be learned from) but either your slot is scum or she will go "oops oh well" at the end of the game and everyone will learn

I read you as scum as well. Mollie and I discussed that one (as she said). I like where our vote is for now. And we're town.

[Frogging Mollie]

There is no 'I think.' Only one part of the post is addressed to you (mollie), so it should be super obvious.

As I figured. So I'll let Mollie answer, as I said.

[Frogging Mollie]

I like frogger.

Gonna townread Mollie. Her read on me still sucks though.

To avoid this being rated as a spampost: frogger, how independent are you at playing the game and hunting scum? How confident are you at finding scum without handholding from mollie? Because she is setting a wrong example by calling me scum (not a bad example cause all mistake can be learned from) but either your slot is scum or she will go "oops oh well" at the end of the game and everyone will learn

Pedit: hi singer I am town!

Why are you appealing to Fro99er to change Mollie's read on you when admittedly she has a much bigger/arguably better arsenal of reading you?

Feels like MS is trying to buddy me and get me to persuade Mollie to reconsider our stance on him. Feels scummy.

@MS: If you want us to reconsider our stance on you, you need to do something towny. That wasn't it.

[Frogging Mollie]

Frogging, I'll try to do some data tomorrow or when I'm more awake - I'm interested to about this now.

Completely not contributing to the game here...but you can call me Frog, Froggy, Frogger, Fro99er (my actual handle). Frogging by itself is just.....weird I'm off to bed. This has been a fun start to the game for me. Looking forward to the data.

[Frogging Mollie]

okay yeah so

I think yukari's pbpa was spot on.

metal ISN'T scumhunting at all, he hasn't been all game.

instead he is trying to suck up to other players, baiting me, exclaiming that he is lynchbait when he is not, saying things that are blatantly untrue, aTeing like a champ, OMGUSing anything that looks sideways at him and in general fitting the mold of organic and nightless which some dumb pple will buy that is somehow his town game.

you cannot meta metal through pattern matching, if you want to meta him you have to understand him as a player. if he is town then he is trying to throw his town game to couch his scum 1. I wld like to think that he wldn't do that but then I have been surprised by other players before.

it isn't just what he is doing it is the pivotal motivational axis from which he is spinning from.

I feel like pie is trying to cover up for metal with his saying that yukari's reasons for scumreading metal are "shallow" cos they are anything but, and both pie and brian are pretty competent scumhunters and they shld know this but they are pretending that they don't. and I am not feeling the genuine OMG METAL IS TOWN YOU DUMMIES LAY OFF OF HIM which they are capable of broadcasting in their non-abrasive way. I think some pple might think brian is abrasive at times but I am like meh when I compare it to my own or others. he just strikes me as being very kind. doubles for pie.

@ ika

plz don't invite elusive again in a game I am in tia

I think she is eaten up by the little inferiors. and when I say "little inferiors" I am referring to those of the mind.

whoops

[Frogging Mollie]

you cannot meta metal through pattern matching, if you want to meta him you have to understand him as a player. if he is town then he is trying to throw his town game to couch his scum 1. I wld like to think that he wldn't do that but then I have been surprised by other players before.

ok at least u got this points right here. that feels good to me.

but you are still off. i am town

and this is my typical town game

. nightless and twin trap were my top games for both alignments. they are special.

see, I really don't feel that way, if anything this looks like your typical scumgame.

if you are town then gj cos you are imitating your scum meta to a T. which wld pretty much nuke everything that you have said.

[Frogging Mollie]

organic and nightless

and i lost both games.

at those points you might as well wait for me to derp to lose.

nah

I wld rather lynch you and fish out WNI.

then u got my baseline wrong. i fucked up your baseline of me because of the FUCKING NIGHTLESS which I LOST and now you are so arrogant to think that you can catch me within page 2

well done.

you didn't fuck up my baseline in nightless tho. I read you as scum right off the bat, the only time I was unsure was when I was listening to bulba and nacho.

I am going with my own reads now.

[Frogging Mollie]

If Yukari flips town then you will be speedlynched next, are you willing to accept that?

I'm more worried about the loss of reputation though. Right now as you can see, I'm banking a lot on Yukari-scum. Not just my role/life in this game, but my credibility as a scumhunter.

Your scumhunting reputation won't be hurt because you are scum.

In Team Mafia (Twin Trap), I lost quite a lot with the Quilford lynch, though I can defend myself with "At least I was going to lynch ETL tomorrow so the game wasn't lost". I'm not sure what excuse I'll come up with if I'm wrong for this game. I'd rather not think about it.

As scum, you don't need to think up an excuse.

MS, I generally don't sheep unless I see the case as clear as day. Due to the slightly strange speaking style Yukari might be mislynch bait.

I'm going to read Yukari's two games on here from the Newbie queue, (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=58280) and (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=31336) and see what I can find and update here later.

I like this approach. A much more sensible approach to the game then spamming the thread. Town points for you.

(Frogger)

[Frogging Mollie]

boo

where are you

[Frogging Mollie]

we are lynchign metal sonic

you are not even voting him

[Frogging Mollie]

I do think Ika and Pirate Mollie are town.

Who's Pirate Mollie? Sometimes I feels so left out

[Frogging Mollie]

may I plz have a link to double trap?

I just wanna know what you guys are talking about.

I am getting ready to make shrimp fajitas and will probs be out for the night.

ONLY COS I DON"T WANT A LYNCH WHILE I AM GONE

UNVOTE:

I am not ready for the day to end.

goddamn

[Frogging Mollie]

(I'm not really fond of frog's posts, either, although I think it might just be playstyle)

What exactly aren't you fond of? And why?

I think I'm seeing exactly what you first saw re: her. I see her pushing you as scum but I don't actually see a reason anywhere: just "lol this is MS' scumgame" while writing a lot of words about irrelevant stuff to cover it up.

I guess you missed 50 where it all started, and MS's subsequent OMGUS AtE, which really was pure gold. All that was well before "MS scumgame meta" which became a later part of our push on MS.

I also really fucking hate her attitude towards elusive in general when elusive didn't actually do anything to deserve it, it feels really out of place - as if she's faking it.

[Frogging Mollie]

Also, apparently I've played with more people than I thought because now that I remember Yukari, I was in the newbie game with them I think last fall and they were mislynched for being..."off" if I remember correctly. I have a hard time associating "one-off" games I've played with people and remembering much about them. >_>

Actually, Yukari was VT (like you in that game), but they were endgamed. I'm digging through to see if they were scumread at any point (and if so, why). Or if they were town read the whole way through and if that playstyle fits the current playstyle in any way.

[Frogging Mollie]

LOL I'm not tipsy. Just dumb. Sorry for posting from my Fro99er account by accident.

Spoiler: stupid Fro99er

Also, apparently I've played with more people than I thought because now that I remember Yukari, I was in the newbie game with them I think last fall and they were mislynched for being..."off" if I remember correctly. I have a hard time associating "one-off" games I've played with people and remembering much about them. >_>

Actually, Yukari was VT (like you in that game), but they were endgamed. I'm digging through to see if they were scumread at any point (and if so, why). Or if they were town read the whole way through and if that playstyle fits the current playstyle in any way.

what?

I will explain this to you slowly.

Singer said she was in a game with Yukari.
Singer thought she remembered that Yukari got mislynched (as in, town getting lynched).
I looked up that game and Yukari was town.
But Yukari was not lynched and was endgamed instead.
The rest is me saying I was going to read that game for playstyle reads on Yukari.

What are you drinking? I'd like some (no, seriously, I would like some. It's 1am and I'm still not tipsy!).

^^Frogger (obv)

[Frogging Mollie]

Lolwut? This is Fro99er.

[Frogging Mollie]

Yukari is a scummyscumfuck. I looked at their meta already but I can only post full length on com. Just simply their town play is more like able and confused about who is town or scum. Here they seem like faking confusion about lame stuff like the setup. They also have been doing fuck all the whole game except tunnel on me. No reads in their ISO. In their town games they have townreads. No townreads over here. They are scum basically

Woah. I agree with this. They basically played by the book in both games (even to the point of hating RVS in both games and explicitly stating so and quoting the wiki).
Here they jump right in and just start throwing shit around. Voting MS right off the bat (for a contrived reason of not liking his elusive vote), and stating

Oh, and msg to scum: please NK yukari N1 so we can get back to being allowed to play a simple game thanks. If not, we do not intend to replace out, would just prefer to make this quick as the setup and such is confusing.

doesn't have town interest in mind.

then quoting this

c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

but immediately afterward stating this

If you’re town answer, if you don’t answer vig gets a nice clear headshot

Don't like the way you said this. Vig isn't even in the list of roles given in the setup.

Then plum asks why they don't like the vote on elusive, and they just say "are you MS's scumbuddy?" instead of actually answering. They would have answered in the previous games (both town games).

Then the throwdown with MS. They never had such a throwdown in the two prior towngames.

I don't want to quote their whole previous ISO from previous games, but I'll pull up some select quotes to show the playstyle difference between prior town games and this game if needed.

[Frogging Mollie]

snip

plz do, im not in a good mood or porper to really give the incentive to do it myself atm. i really jsut need some people i trust in this game to give me some dicussion and stuff to bpunce off of

You trust Mollie, but do you trust me?

But yes, I will pull up some Yukari ISO/quotes in due time. It's 2am here. Maybe in the morning.

[Frogging Mollie]

Spoiler: Yukari's previous game...selected quotes

Also seems like meybe could vote for whoever seems most town lol. Seems counterintuitive but scum would have more reason to want to appear as town.

Yukari suggests voting the most towny?

We don't like the way rvs is used. People shouldn't vote randomly, and rvs despite its name is not supposed to mean, everyone gets to vote randomly because there is no info to go on stage.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Random_Vote
One criticism of the random voting stage is that the votes are meaningless and pressureless, as players do not tend to have any real attachment to their vote or wanting to lynch the player being voted for. The solution to this is to up the stakes. It is not at all unheard of for a random vote wagon to reach a lynch, or for a Policy Lynch to occur with little to no discussion, and so forth. By raising or even possibly enforcing this possibility, the RVS can become more serious.

Note that truly random voting, as with the dice tag, is strictly frowned upon. A vote that is demonstrably random carries no motivation to be read into, and is completely informationless. This is not the intent of the "random voting stage".

Doesn't like RVS. Quotes wiki, quotes dice rolling illegal.

1 forum game and less than 5 chat games, mostly 3person mafia which was kinda lame.
Also, not suggesting to lynch whoever looks most town, just speculating about possibility of voting someone who appears overly town.

Ok doesn't suggest voting town. Also, level of experience.

Why peeps laying into flubber so hard? We agree that intentionally misrepresenting someone would be suspicious. But in this case we just arent getting an intentional or deceptive vibe from flubber's mistake. If anything, the ppl trying to exploit this error to casebuild seems a bit scummier to us, though could be overzealous/overaggressive town.

We are all for aggression and pressure, but would prefer the attacks be a little better aimed.

Bolded is my emphasis.

A FUCKING GEM!!!

Prefer pressure/attack to be better aimed. You mean like your throwdown with MS?

We don't rly care for random voting in rvs and pretty much agree with the wiki which explains it better and more easily than we could. The same issue came up in our last game and we still don't think rvs should be an excuse to be random. Better to vote for reasons other than randomness.

Reiterating hate for RVS.

So basically you disagree with the wiki and dislike that we agree with it? We don't have enough experience to have much of an experience based opinion, all we have to go on is what we have read and logic.

Not much experience. Just reads and logic. Very passive player. This is their very next game...why the blowup with Sonic?

Wtf.. why the quickhammer..

Concerned about a quickhammer. Didn't seem to be concerned with Sonic.

Hmm.. ok then, matrix is confusing.
unvote

The last time they were confused about a format they unvoted. This time they were confused, they turned the pressure up.

Intent to hammer flubber.
Think we would rather go with flubber than bullish. Was curious to see how he would react to being l-1 and now we have.

Any last words?

Very passive intent to hammer. Certainly not the bravado style we saw vs Sonic.

vote:no lynch

Lets just no lynch and see what happens.. can't hurt.
Weird thought tho, if town refuses to lynch and mafia refuses to nk, would the game end in a stalemate?

I LOL'ed.

We aren't very good.. any1 gots any tips for scumhunting?

Yukari's last in-game post before joining this game. An admittedly poor scumhunter.

I'm sorry I couldn't show Yukari doing any more scumhunting. But you can't show what doesn't exist.

It's pretty much night and day contrast from how they've played this game.

[Frogging Mollie]

V/LA until Tuesday

since I'll be busy with stuff (hiiiii Fro99er) and don't have a cell phone to keep up intermittently as evidenced by the FIVE PAGES IN ONE DAY.

@Mod: just making sure you caught Singer's V/LA since you don't have it listed below

Vote Count 1.9

Yukari (3)

- Metal Sonic, ZZZX, Hydrangra

Metal Sonic (2)

- Yukari, singersigner

White Night Imagination (2)

- elusive, Plum

ZZZX (2)

- Andrius, White Night Imagination

Bookitty (1)

- Grib
Andrius -
elusive -
Frogging Mollie -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Plum -
singersigner -


Not Voting (3): Bookitty, ika, Frogging Mollie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-06-04 11:00:00) from now, or June 4th, 11:00 AM CST (GMT-6).

Plum is V/LA until June 25

Grib is V/LA until June 25

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

**Fixed**

[Frogging Mollie]

hi guys

ketching up and i am up to here:

OK,

I am replacing out. Hope this is better for everyone.

Enjoy the game, folks.

Turns out I can't do that

I'm here to stay ._________________.

I asked 5 listmods

holy jesus mary and christ SINGER AND I KNOW MOST OF THE LIST MODS PERSONALLY PRETTY SURE THAT META DID NOT PM 5 LIST MODS AND GOT A RESPONSE WITHIN 10 MINUTES W/O THE LIST MODS TALKING TO ANK FIRST METAL IS LYIG HIS FUCKING ASS OFF ANY1 WHO IS TOWNREADING METAL AFTER THIS IS EITHER SCUM WITH METAL OR A FREAKING IDIOT

[Frogging Mollie]

I reread mollie just now. I'm actually really not happy with her (and I'm not really fond of frog's posts, either, although I think it might just be playstyle) - way less so than Yukari, who I think is likely town mostly bc even though what he's pushing is blatantly wrong I don't see some parts of it coming from scum

I think I'm seeing exactly what you first saw re: her.

I see her pushing you as scum but I don't actually see a reason anywhere

: just "lol this is MS' scumgame" while writing a lot of words about irrelevant stuff to cover it up. frog's posting is the same way (303 specifically made me think this, but as I said idk if this is just playstyle or not). I also really fucking hate her attitude towards elusive in general when elusive didn't actually do anything to deserve it, it feels really out of place - as if she's faking it.

the only thing I think looks town is the paragraph in 261 about myself, bc I can see why she would think that - but even then, calling someone defending the mislynch you want to push scum with them is a good way of discrediting them.

this is a lie. I have stated why I think metal is scum.

soyeah wni is metal's buddy!

[Frogging Mollie]

holy jesus mary and christ SINGER AND I KNOW MOST OF THE LIST MODS PERSONALLY PRETTY SURE THAT META DID NOT PM 5 LIST MODS AND GOT A RESPONSE WITHIN 10 MINUTES W/O THE LIST MODS TALKING TO ANK FIRST METAL IS LYIG HIS FUCKING ASS OFF ANY1 WHO IS TOWNREADING METAL AFTER THIS IS EITHER SCUM WITH METAL OR A FREAKING IDIOT

Bahahaha good call Mollie. This is why you're the expert head.

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie tell me when your caught up plz i would like to sync with you on ppl

pedit: -.-

I am caught up now!

metal is confscum at this point. like no really he is confscum.

re: ank locking the thread:

in molliegeddon scum!mastina tried to pull this same bs by saying he contacted the admins. anti and I locked the thread and then I contacted all of the admins to ask them to speed up the process of sorting the situ cos guyett WAS in every manner crossing the line with mastina and anti (co-mod) and I were already in the process of talking about what we shld do. it was my decision that both slots shld be replaced since the game was a bit compromised. the admins had no idea what was going on but upon investigation suspended guyett for 2 weeks.

fyi - buymechocolate was 1 of the hydras I used for flavour cos I <3 metal and he knows this. <----- this shld tell the nature of our relationship. when he is scum he tends to play the victim card with me cos it the only mileage he can get; sympathy from others cos of my abrasive playstyle. metal loves playing scum but I am pretty sure by now he hates being scum against me cos I understand him. he knows I love him and he loves me too but he still has to play to his wc and will try to do what he can for his team.

I think ank had to double check some things to make sure that everything was within the rules (which they are) and to make sure he was reading the situ correctly. which he did hence the unlock. when a player bypasses the gm to go over their heads and bring in the listmods you simply have to verify that cos as a gm it is your ass that is on line and you are held accountable for maintaining control of the game.

I have seen the tactic that metal is using from scum 4 times, etl even won a scummy for it. I think it is despicable personally but whatevs.

metal is scum here and if you pple try to lynch any1 other than him then I am just going to get bitter about mafia again cos I am sick to death of town dithering over lynching obvscum.

IF metal happens to flip town (and I have srs doubts here) he is throwing his town meta to support a scum 1 cos I have not said 1 single antagonstic thing towards metal, elusive yes, metal no, I read him as scum, have made a case and voted him.

I am not budging from his lynch. cos either way we are lynching a) scum or at the very least bad town. and metal's town is not bad, he can actually be quite good when he wants to be.

VOTE: metal

[Frogging Mollie]

I've basically been V/LA since Wednesday but didn't realize that I would have no desire to be on-site at all during Vacation. Anywho, I'm leaving again, as I am going through another struggle and I must sort out my life again.

I request replacement.

Pax vobiscum.

-Andy

---

Last reads list from where I left off:

Plum is town.
I have no reason to doubt Bookitty.
Did not get around to re-reading mollie/singer.
singer was leaning town though.
Grib is leaning scum.
ika town.
ZZZX town.

Pax vobiscum.

wldn't it be lovely if we knew who pax was.

ffs

[Frogging Mollie]

Oh right, I declared V/LA for the weekend in my other game and forgot to do it here.

Mod, V/LA until Monday.

Actually you already did.

Mod: V/LA for the weekend.

Won't have computer access until Monday.

[Frogging Mollie]

hi bellaphant!

so you know ika, elusive and grib yeah?

can you walk me through how wni is sandwhitched between ika and elusive? like how did you come up with that.

also what are your thoughts on metal. you know the person in the lynch lead.

[Frogging Mollie]

Hi,

I don't really 'know' anyone, I'm hella new, but I'm in ongoing games with most of them. Also, that list isn't in any order, sorry, but I've liked some of wni's questioning of others. At the moment their thought process seems mostly logical, so they can be weak-town for now. Do you disagree? Why?

Metal looks like obvi-scum - my last sentence referred to him, but maybe I could've been clearer.

okay.

I find it kind of strange that you think you wni's posts somehow are "logical" yet somehow miss his hard defense of metal, I mean did you think those posts were particularly logical when you think metal is "obvscum"?

and out of all that has been posted those were the only 1s compared to all other players?

this grieves me

[Frogging Mollie]

Plum also suspect. Will need a lil time to look through everything.

hey yukari I am about to give you the most invaluable advice you will ever hear.

stahp talking to scum.

just shut up or talk to other pple otherwise you give scum!metal a chance to weasel out of a lynch using bullshit reasons which scum!metal does! and make yourself look bad which his scummates will try to use once scum!metal flips.

[Frogging Mollie]

Metal Sonic, I actively dislike your presence in this game. It's a weird mixture of AtE, showboating, theater for the sake of theater and I haven't had chance to meta you but you look scummy as hell. The only thing holding me back is the question, "Why would scum create such drama around themselves?"

cos dummies let him get away with it that is why.

he was getting away with it in nightless "too scummy to be scum" until ooba and I showed up. he knows he is getting lynched cos I WILL have my way in this

if not then I am not going to sign up for anymore games for a bit and start an md thread discussion on how awful town loses games and how this game is a shining example when scum is not lynched on d1 when it is like a present with a bow and everything hand delivered.

I have 2 scum cld you plz help me out with the third? I feel like it might be andy/new person slot cos that readslist is terrible when they have indicated that they have not kept up with the game by asking for a summary.

be back in a minute

[Frogging Mollie]

That's unfortunate. I hope I can play with you in another game where I am not subject to such grating circumstances. I've already gone through yukari' meta as you asked, and as you predicted they are not playing like their previous games.

hey metal how about you make some vague attempt at showing the post where I was sooooooooooo antagonistic towards you that you felt you had to go over ank's modship and throw shade on him by going over his head and appealing to the list mods who seemed to have responded to you in 10 minutes according to you w/o ever contacting ank.

[Frogging Mollie]

hai grib, can you talk to me about reads?

My lynch pool at the moment is [Bellaphant/Bookitty/Hydrangea/ZZZX].

I have a strong gut feeling that Metal Sonic is town, despite his atrocities. mollie made a good point about how he probably faked the whole list mods thing, but I think that's just kind of a shitty thing to do rather than scummy.

it IS a scummy thing to do and has BEEN DONE BY SCUM BEFORE and you are

rewarding

him by letting him get away with it which is shittier than what metal is trying to do in the first place.

[Frogging Mollie]

Like, looking through his ISO, I see that he:

- started out shamelessly sheeping ika (who is town); what is the scum motivation in openly sheeping someone from your first post?
- said something I find to be pretty towny in 23 ("Hopefully if you're town we can solve this game in double time.")
- has this attitude where he thinks he's being obvious town (or that mollie should see he's town), even though most of his posts are pretty bad
- responded to mollie's pressure by OMGUS'ing, and being proud of it
- rejects Plum's request to clarify something he said earlier; at this point, he's been pretty contrary and uncooperative, but I'm not seeing the scum motivation behind his actions. I can see the not-really-taking-this-seriously-whee town mentality, though
- honestly, I hate hate hate the Yukari push, because it is literally based on no evidence at all

I'll admit I've mostly been ignoring Sonic after he started 1v1'ing Yukari because it's all nonsense (I also kind of hate how Yukari eventually pulls a 'oh you fool this was all a gambit ha ha ha' out of their butt)

I'm not going to go over the rest of his posts, but. Despite the amount of bad posts, I really think he's town.

eta: xposts

mollie: please link me to Sonic's Nightless posts that are similar to his play here, or maybe reflect why he is playing this way.

metal has over 1000 posts in nightless no way am I wading through that cos it is really fucking obvs that he is scum here and I don't get why you and elusive are being so chickenshit about it.

grib my language is strong and I know it and it makes me unpopular in games sometimes if I am not put in the role of a mediator. I don't think I am better than you and I don't think I am better than elusive I see you both as equals it is why I am so blunt with you 2 if I thought you were less than then I wld probs treat you a lot more differently.

scum behave exactly the way metal is acting when they are going down hoping that dumb town will derp themselves into letting them live. they do it cos it

works

.

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie: please link me to Sonic's Nightless posts that are similar to his play here, or maybe reflect why he is playing this way.

ill garcia it and link you myself

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=61168

mollie whos you other scum read again? cus im gonna be on agrement on MS (and MS dont even fucking apease to me i dont want to hear you right now)

whats yours thoughts on yukari?

I have metal/wni/andy slot for right now. I think there is a bunch of derp going on which scum will try to take advantage of and might succeed amazingly at it depending on if we lynch metal or not.

andy slot is a weaker scumread but it is there for now.

[Frogging Mollie]

I think MS is likely town here. mollie's push on him is, put bluntly, fake as fuck.

what she is doing is writing a bunch of words about irrelevant shit and hoping no one notices she's not actually backing up *why*, specifically, she thinks MS's play is scummy - the only exception to this is the thing about MS replacing out, but given how fucking awful that looks that by itself is easy enough to fake. she also has, quite literally, no reads outside of MS-scum and me-scum for defending him. she's just blindly tunneling him and hoping no one realizes she's not *actually* game solving here. fro9's 406 comes off more like he's just twisting Yukari's posts to call them scum (the part about them being concerned with a quickhammer in the newbie game and this somehow making them scum here for... ???... comes to mind).

ZZZX is also likely scum.

I don't get where scum reads on Plum are coming from - I remember liking 108. someone walk me through it.

I buy Yukari saying they wanted to play differently in this game from the last game. while I think it's a shit strategy, them apparently wanting to "play scummy on purpose" would explain why they went full-force pushing MS out the gate.

I'm currently waiting to see if Brian gets here anytime soon so we can consolidate thoughts before I really push anything. if he doesn't, I'll go ahead and elaborate more in-depth on these reads.

not reading anything past this cos metal is lying and you know it but are trying to give him an out and appeal to derp town in order to avoid his lynch.

it isn't fake cos when presented with the cold hard truth your whole world just crumbles and you know that you have tied yourself to a player who has done something shitty and shld be beyond the pale of the game cos that is the only recourse you have and ank actually has pretty thick skin.

[Frogging Mollie]

hai grib, can you talk to me about reads?

My lynch pool at the moment is [Bellaphant/Bookitty/Hydrangea/ZZZX].

I have a strong gut feeling that Metal Sonic is town, despite his atrocities. mollie made a good point about how he probably faked the whole list mods thing, but I think that's just kind of a shitty thing to do rather than scummy.

it IS a scummy thing to do and has BEEN DONE BY SCUM BEFORE and you are

rewarding

him by letting him get away with it which is shittier than what metal is trying to do in the first place.

Just because it's been done by scum before doesn't mean it's always only going to be done by scum.

I'm being chickenshit about it because I think he's just bad town this game. It happens. If you feel so strongly that he's scum, get him lynched. You don't need my vote to do it. If he flips scum, then I apologize. I don't want any part in his lynch. At least not toDay.

See what I did, going through his ISO and pointing out why I think he's town? Do the same for me. Tell me why he's scum. Let's put the fake replace out thing to the side for a second. Please try to go into the mindset behind his posts, not just his words.

saying he is being bad town is how scum win games on this site. cos scum count on town derping the fuck out of the game and it is their only recourse when caught red-handed early on d1.

I have told you why he is scum. I have said so numerous times. I am *in* the mindset of metal better than you cos I understand him and I have explained why he is scum and why his posts point to a scum mindset. this is simply what he does when he is scum going down.

if metal is town then this game will be pl fodder in future games. metal is 1 of those rare mafia players in that he actually grasps his impact on future games and I wld like to think that he wld not throw his town meta away just to win future games as scum.

I feel like you are underestimating metal in a pretty big way, he not a fucking derp. he knows this and more importantly he knows that I KNOW HE KNOWS THIS. his scumgame is a conglomerate of nacho/mastina/etl/titus <------- these are his scum influences.

I wish I cld make it easier for you but I don't know how. I am trying. but I am finding myself in the spot of having to prove an obvscum mindset and the questions that you are asking are already addressed so I am really stumped as to what to say to try to convince you of lynching obvscum here.

I get really frustrated when I think things shld be oh so easy and am thwarted by stubborn town. stubborn town think "oh it can't be this easy" when I am like yes it can, just follow the roadsigns that will guide you in the right direction.

my guard is down with you cos I think you are town and this is a reach out by the way.

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie, Sonic's entire play is basically anti-everything. It doesn't benefit him as town or as scum, and he's been posting in this fashion since the beginning of the game.

Why is he scum?

it benefits his scum game cos site meta points to letting him get away with it which is exactly what is happening right now.

do you have any idea how hard it is to get scum lynched on here? cos it is hard. you usually have to convince scummates to bus and that isn't as easy as it used to be.

if metal is town then this game will be used for wotc for putting ank in an awkward position and you know what? I am okay with that. I just think he is scum here.

[Frogging Mollie]

I get that you're trusting mollie, etc., but put bluntly, I fucking hate the way she's pushing him. I won't sheep a push that has obvious scum intent and literally no fucking reasoning outside of MS "replacing out". and I have enough experience with MS to make my own judgement call on him.

if you sold me on mollie town or otherwise explained why her push isn't scum motivated at the least, I'd be more inclined to buy it

I was pushing metal before the fake replace out thing so your logic chain fails miserably here doesn't it.

what reward wld I get from a lynched town!metal as scum exactly? taking out a strong town player? lynching 1 of the pple who are not as invested wld be better play IMO and nking a strong town player is clearly the better course of action but I am not interested in making friends to try to vet a bad lynch I am saying that metal is scum and your attempts to derail his lynch look sooper desperate.

[Frogging Mollie]

Bad townies happen, and scum will take advantage of that. That's true. But aside from doing our best to determine one from the other, there isn't anything that can be done about it.

You think he's playing badly on purpose in order to get away with this kind of play as scum in the future?

I want you to go through his posts and really spell it out for me. I'm not just going to take your word for it, as much as I'd like to. If he's such obvious scum, this shouldn't be a challenge.

If this weren't Day 1 and you had more town credibility or something, I'd be more inclined to believe you. As it happens, it is, you don't, and I really, really would like for you to walk me through his posts so I can see for myself. 'i know him and he's scum, i promise' is just setting off red flags for me.

I'm telling you exactly what I think I need to see in order to have a better chance at believing your case.

I am not going to repeat what has been evident in the game which you keep trying to find excuses to handwave away and decide to be stubborn about it cos it was not your idea in the first place.

I am talking to you like an equal, period, end of story.

I am fairly certain that I have this repellant that makes pple do the opposite of what I want them to do. nuwen said this morning when she was dropping me off that I am charismatic enough to get a nerd job in a gaming store cos really that is what I want. I want to hang out with nerds all day and talk about gaming.

[Frogging Mollie]

ika, people don't want to read a fucking 200 paged game or however long it is. If you can't be bothered to cite posts form it, what makes you think we'd want to read it?

and I don't want to revisit a 1000+ iso.

scum!metal is capitalizing on your not wanting to look at it, it is why scum spam post in the first place. it dirties up a metadive.

what metal has done in THIS game shld be enough to lynch him.

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie, talk to me plz i need someon to talk me out of my anger right now

CAAAAAAAALM

if town wins this game it will be a 9/10 town win for me and hell yeah I am being pretty fucking egotistical about it. except that I acknowledge and KNOW that it is NOT something that I can ever do on my own, a town win takes group town effort, it is just a matter of getting town there in the first place.

it is just exhausting trying to get this to happen.

[Frogging Mollie]

Bad townies happen, and scum will take advantage of that. That's true. But aside from doing our best to determine one from the other, there isn't anything that can be done about it.

You think he's playing badly on purpose in order to get away with this kind of play as scum in the future?

I want you to go through his posts and really spell it out for me. I'm not just going to take your word for it, as much as I'd like to. If he's such obvious scum, this shouldn't be a challenge.

If this weren't Day 1 and you had more town credibility or something, I'd be more inclined to believe you. As it happens, it is, you don't, and I really, really would like for you to walk me through his posts so I can see for myself. 'i know him and he's scum, i promise' is just setting off red flags for me.

I'm telling you exactly what I think I need to see in order to have a better chance at believing your case.

I think metal is scum. that is why I am voting him.

I have already said as to why I think he is scum in this game itt.

I am telling YOU exactly what I think, I don't think it shld be this hard to lynch a liar.

if it is then jesus christ site meta took a nosedive. just when we were about to get to places.

[Frogging Mollie]

^this sums it up nice IMO

the only actual reasoning in that entire post is that MS is scum for supposedly faking a replace out

the rest of it is, again, all noise - saying MS usually plays the victim card with her when scum (without explaining how this applies to this specific game), continuing to push this "MS is throwing his town meta to his scum meta" which still isn't a reason for MS being scum to begin with, saying MS is "confscum", and calling for more people to lynch MS

it's as I said. that is literally the only time this entire game she gave any reasoning at all for MS being scum - and it's so fakeable it's not funny. if you're scum and someone pulls something like that as town, you will naturally never let up on it bc of how fucking awful it looks. that kind of behavior is typical of scum taking advantage of town making a mistake. (not that I think she's scum for it - just that the way she's pushing it is not town)

there is no reasoning given anywhere outside of that post. seriously, go back and check. IF you can show me where she gave any kind of case at all that wasn't just "this is MS's scum game" - and actually backed it up with evidence as opposed to just stating shit and hoping people accept it as truth without cross referencing it - I'll drop this, but she fucking hasn't.

I have explained it

TWICE

.

your defense of him is an actual chainsaw defense and is diametrically opposed to what a chainsaw defense is in how the term has been used in this game.

YOU CAN LEAD PPLE TO WATER BUT YOU CAN"T FORCE THEM TO DRINK.

they have to come up with it on their own. it is the only way that they can feel good about it and feel like that they made a meaningful contribution.

[Frogging Mollie]

You think he's playing badly on purpose in order to get away with this kind of play as scum in the future?

I want you to go through [8 of] his posts and really spell it out for me. I'm not just going to take your word for it, as much as I'd like to. If he's such obvious scum, this shouldn't be a challenge.

[...]

I'm telling you exactly what I think I need to see in order to have a better chance at believing your case.

Do you see 504? Do something like that. It is literally that easy. Pretty please. Take a deep breath and humor me.

I am WELL AWARE that you and Sonic have PLAYED TOGETHER A LOT and your READ ON HIM is probably LEAGUES MORE ACCURATE than mine, but if you WANT ME TO VOTE WITH YOU it is YOUR JOB to CONVINCE ME and REFUTE MY REASONING for finding him town.

I'm not yelling at you, it's just easier to shift than italicize

.

yessssss

I am tired and winding down. or at least trying to.

I don't know how to convince you more than what have I already have said. even if you think he is bad town (and I find it unlikely) then lynch him so that particular behavior can be exhumed from games. but I don't think he is bad town I think he is scum here.

I am tired of repeating myself. my approach to the game is moving town in and forcing scum out. I think you are town. elusive too, but the 2 of you seem more interested in clawing my hand off and I am like no really we are town no really can we just lynch scum already.

[Frogging Mollie]

so Grib.

have you considered that mollie's constant refusal to give a more specific explanation of why MS is scum here when asked might just be bc...... she's scum BS'ing her push and doesn't actually have an explanation?

erm

you acknowledged that metal lied.

you awkwardly tried to clear him for it.

recap: metal was sucking up to ika early game which is what he did to nacho in nightless.

refutation:

*crickets*

recap:

he is OMGUSing any1 who suspects him

refutation:

"BUT THIS IS NOT A SCUMTELL"

and it isn't.

except when you take in body of work.

recap: OMG METAL IS LYING ABOUT THE MOD AND THE ACTIONS HE TOOK COS MOLLIE IS BEING MEAN

refutation:

somehow this makes him not scum.

and all I have to say is like, really

[Frogging Mollie]

pie posted:

except I didn't - I merely pointed out that in this case it wasn't a good reason for reading him as scum. this is not "clearing" him. my town read on him comes from other reasons.

okay. he is somehow town when he lied about not only the mod but the listmods as well.

my god he is such a fantastic player we shld save him right now.

OK. so, this is referring to him claiming at several points early game he was "sheeping ika".

the first problem with this is that this isn't really sucking up to him. how, exactly, is saying you're "sheeping" someone in RVS sucking up to them? why couldn't it be something simple like RVS shenanigans? there is nothing wrong here - blatantly sheeping someone in RVS is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. there is nothing about this that is more indicative of scum than town.

he sheeped ika out of rvs or did you forget that. when questioned he tried to pass off an "oh its ika" excuse and when questioned again he ignored it. funny how you seem to have forgotten this. like what he did is the very definition of buddying and I find it amusing how much you are pretending that isn't what he was doing.

moreover, *if* he wanted to suck up to someone, what benefit would there be to doing it to ika as opposed to someone he is more familiar with (such as myself or yourself)? and even if he did see it fit to buddy ika for whatever reason, where was the follow-up on it? just "sheeping" someone in RVS really does not buddying make as it really does not do anything to gain credibility with someone in the long term - if that was his scum strategy here, he likely would have continued to buddy up to him after RVS was over, or at least done *something* else along those lines, but that's not what he did. the next mention of ika was 166 (reads list where he puts him as town) and then 282/285 (mentions him in passing).

he continued to buddy ika out of rvs cos ika said he was out of rvs and metal continued to sheep him and said that was what he was doing.

metal never sheeps me as scum he does the exact same thing that he is doing here which is to bait, discredit and play victim.

plz explain to me the town motivation for lying about the gm. I am going to ask this question until you give a plausible reason for it fyi.

there's nothing in his ISO up to this point that could be construed as buddying or sucking up to him. so you think his scum strategy was apparently to sheep ika in RVS in order to buddy him, bc he thought this would allow him to get on ika's good side for ..... ??? ..... and then completely drop it?

saying that he's scum for doing the same thing he did in his scum game, by itself, is also shallow, for the same reason. I'm pretty sure MS generally buddies ppl when he's town as well as when he's scum. saying it's part of his scum game feels more like you're twisting the evidence to fit the conclusion instead of analyzing it objectively - that he would likely do something like this as either alignment.

I think you are twisting the evidence into a pretzel trying to make him somehow appear more town when he so isn't.

what you're doing here completely discounts the context behind his posts. as far as I could tell, he buddied up to Nacho in the nightless game bc Nacho was a strong force as town who would likely be adept at pushing lynches and they have a fair amount of experience with each other. ergo, gaining credibility with him would be useful bc he would be likely to strongly town read him as a result or otherwise not get him lynched. how is that the same as what he's doing here? no offense to ika but I really do not think he would be that high priority of a target for buddying here. it's as I said before. why, strategically, would he have buddied ika here?

cos ika has sway over the pple whom he invited from the site he plays on. its no big seekrit I listen to ika too.

have you explained the town motivation for him lying about the gm and listmods yet? before I get to the end of this post I hope that you will have done so even if it is a plausible deniability disclosure.

it's not the same fucking thing. and you claiming it is reads more like you're pushing a throwaway reason for him being scum without actually considering the context, or the motivation, behind his posts.

jesus christ. I love how acting as if that is the main part of argument at this point and ignoring that metal lied about the mods.

he pretty fucking obviously is not scum reading you. rather, he is attempting to convince you that your read on him is incorrect and that you are giving scum places to hide. this has been the case ever since the start of the game. rather than attempting to discredit you by calling you scum, or attempting to buddy up to/manipulate you, he's attempting to convince you that your push on him is misguided and appeal to you to vote along with him.

pretty sure he was scumreading me at that point which is why he was voting me?

if he is town and lying about the mods then THAT IS GIVING SCUM ROOM TO HIDE COS IT IS SCUMMY AS FUCK THING TO DO AND I AM GOOD WITH LYNCHING THE SHIT OUT OF SOME1 WHO DOES THAT.

it's true that he is scum reading Boo, who is scum reading him - except his scum read on Boo started from 166, whereas Boo started scum reading MS in 284. so it is incorrect to claim that he did it in response to Boo scum reading him. he also explained the Boo read to some extent; he believes Boo's recent posting is devoid of actual content, which is actually a pretty accurate assessment of her posts. the same thing with Plum - Plum had suspected him early, but he put her as leaning town at that point in the game. his scum read on Plum did not exist until recently. so it is, again, incorrect to claim he did it in response to Plum scum reading him

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

how are you able to nuance his reads w/o acknowledging the lying about the mods? like no really gms sometimes get in trouble for losing control of a game word of mouth is a thing about a mod and I am wondering how the fuck you are endorsing this behaviour.

the only person this actually applies to is Yukari. and at that point, you can't fucking say he is "omgus'ing anyone who suspects him" - it's only one person. this, by itself, is not more likely to come from scum than town. it is natural for town to look at someone pushing them and conclude that their push is not coming from a town place.

he OMGUSed me and then yukari when yukari spelled it out.

still waiting for the townie mindset to be explained about lying about mod interaction.

I bet it won't come forth.

if metal is town then I am still good with his lynch for that reason and that reason alone. cos I will not stand for 1 second some1 casting shade on a mod whom I personally support and will do everything in my power to disabuse that shit. cos that is what it is, it is shit.

I think metal is scum. sucking up to town is what scum!metal does and no you have not given good reasons as to the town motivation behind it. instead you are giving loosey goosey reasons and enabling really bad crossing the boundaries for what shld be acceptable in a game.

I am drawing a line here right now and saying I don't think that shit is okay. I see metal doing it to be scum-motivated and it largely comes from that I don't think metal wld be that much of a douche if town. and if he is town then he is giving scum room to hide and dragging the gm and other players down in the process.

which wld be shitty. and I am A-okay lynching shitty players on d1.

[Frogging Mollie]

I mean, I know. "Sonic is nice as town and mean as scum".

no, you are an asshole when you are scum a complete and total asshole. you joined in the shitstorm in nightless with abr and grey and never let up.

and you know what? I am so done with the assholes in my life like i am burnt to a crisp and have so much hatred in my heart right now and it is very sad cos hatred is very unnatural to me.

you lied about the listmod bullshit, there were not 5 listmods online when you did what you said you did and no way did they respond w/o consulting ank who was not around at the time which is very fucking obv considering when he locked the thread. and no way wld they say, "you can't replace out" no matter what the circumstances are. every1 reserves the right to replace out of a game if they want to on this site and the listmods support that but lets ask a listmod

YO SINGER

this is the last game we will ever play together metal. I hope it was worth it.

[Frogging Mollie]

ahhhhhhhh...commune love heals all wounds. I had a great day shopping with reck and then later watched GoT and cuddled with nuwen and held hands. I am in a fantastic mood and tomorrow we are all getting together and grilling out.

MS, can you link the your recent scum games? Or the game you mentioned hydra-ing with Mollie? You have a lot of topics so I'm having trouble finding the scum ones. TIA.

I don't really understand how if you wen trawling through team mafia you somehow managed to miss the nightless game where metal was scum and we lynched him. I am pretty damn sure that metal is lying since 2 of the list mods were out getting drunk with me, mina is at the orlando meet, zoraster and equinox are rarely on at night (I think they think they will turn into a pumpkin or something). that leaves N, guy and llamafluf and they sure as hell wld not tell metal that he was not allowed to replace out w/o first consulting with ank who was not around. metal lives in china and I am not sure he realizes that a lot of us know each other through meet ups and the commune and he probs sure as fuck didn't realize that I tend to remember pple's schedules and posting times. he is flat out lying and is scum. it is not a bannable offence to lie in a game, it is just poor form and you lynch pple like that.

srsly why is it so hard to lynch obvs scum on this site.

also using meta from 2 years ago (the sabotage game)...right?

@ ika - if metal flips scum (and I am pretty sure that he will) I wld lynch wni d2 and after that I wld look at boo unless she does something amazing cos she shld be helping me with metal and she isn't.

@ zzthing - you are not voting metal that is what is wrong with you. heis pulling the same shit he did in the nightless game and I am not sure how you are missing that.

@ metal - I realized that you might have thought that when I said I had hatred in my heart that I meant for you and I didn't it is for something else entirely. but I will NOT play games with you if all you are gonna do is bait me every time you roll scum.

[Frogging Mollie]

zzthing my walls are glorious. aren't they? AREN'T THEY???

[Frogging Mollie]

Regardless of my own leans of MS, I am just not understanding all this drama around the replace out, fake or otherwise. What is the scum motivation behind that? Because I personally cannot see how a move to replace out, be it genuine or theatrics can help ascertain an alignment indication. What is MS's scum motivation behind this? I'm not seeing it.

- Am I just missing the obvious? Cause all this reading based on meta I have no knowledge of has got me pretty jumbled at this point.

the replace out in and of itself is not indicative of scum, it is how a player goes about it and how they deal with it once they retract it.

here is his replace out request:

OK,

I am replacing out. Hope this is better for everyone.

Enjoy the game, folks.

here is him retracting it:

Turns out I can't do that

I'm here to stay ._________________.

and here is what is bugging me:

I asked 5 listmods

cos there were not 5 list mods around at the time and I know this. and they sure as hell wld not tell metal that he cld replace out which is what he implied until post 597 where he presents something entirely different. 662 looks like it comes more from the town mindset that I wld expect from metal yet that isn't how he initially approached it. I feel like town!metal wld have made that post right off the bat but he didn't. anyways I am waiting on singer's input about the whole situ.

the scum motivation behind pulling such shenanigans is that it keeps town off of them cos town are like "scum wld never do that" and my point is that they do. they will lie about anything in order to further their wc it is simply what scum do or use IRL circumstances to try to steer town off of them in order to support their survival. I have literally seen it all, I have played that many games as others have on here. I agree with elusive in that the lying about the mod is despicable but I gave her 2 examples to look at where scum did it and was rewarded for it and that they went on to win the game.

I don't think metal is lynchbait, when I townread him I fight against his mislynch but I have not had 1 here so I am having to stack up as to whether or not what he did comes from more of a town or scum mindset. the posts I quoted look scummy to me but the follow up CLD come from town it is just ugh. metal is fully capable of aTeing as scum in a way that he will get townread it is what he did in nightless.

the 1 thing in his favour is yukari's 180 on him which is downright weird. cos yukari never really explained it. and I

did

like the putting you in his town pile cos was my initial reaction to your posts you are throwing off newb tells like mad and it seems to me that if your were scum your team wld be offering more guidance.

anyway I am shelving it for the mo.

[Frogging Mollie]

I love plum. I want to marry plum. plum plum plum plum plum.

or better yet, light candles at her feet and offer flowers. kneel down in worship. set up a shrine in my living room. plum plum.

plumwrote:

Okay seriously now explain what you actually meant by all of this and why you said this. In words. Lots of nice sensible words.

I feel like I already have explained this

ad nauseum

but lemme bullet point it for you.

1. metal requests replacement.
2. metal then says he can't replacement out and implies that he is not allowed to (10 minutes later).
3. he implies that he was in contact with 5 list mods and that is who told him that he cldn't.
4. after I call him out on the bullshit (cos there were not 5 lists mods around at the time!!!1!) he changes his story and then says he was asking them about "trust tells". which is NOT what he had previously implied.
5. then he changes his story AGAIN to say he only talked to 1 list mod but fails to name who, probs cos he knows that I will call him on his bullshit.

overall he keeps changing his story every time I call him out on his bullshit to counter my points. if you go back and look at the 3 posts I made in context you will observe the lack of transparency and flow of cog-dis that eventually follows. this along with the reasons I stated earlier are the reasons as to why I feel he is most likely scum.

metal and I have a love/hate relationship; we love each other when we are both town but hate each other when we are of mixed alignment. metal LOVES playing scum and when scum!him is up against town!me cos it spoils his fun which is why he resorts to baiting me.

I 100% agree that wni's awkward chainsaw defense makes him most likely scum regardless of what metal flips. I think he is a likely partner for that chainsaw defense and his poopooing away my earlier points on metal (note he never actually refuted them, just that I never had any in the first place) when his push on me is such a stretch it looks like advanced bikram yoga. soyeah, I think wni is scum too. pie is usually much better than this.

@ boo

the only interaction that elusive and I have had was drawn on arrival. for some reason that game made her hate me? we have had no outside game communication and yeah, I think she entered this game with a huge chip on her shoulder but I thought she did in drawn in arrival too and said so. I think she is eaten up by what I call the "little inferiors" of the mind and she is so eaten up that she thinks that I am calling her "inferior" when I say this when that is not what I am saying at all. to clarify, every human being is composed of a superior mind and a herd of little inferiors. the little inferiors are like errant little children running that require a lot of attention and discipline in order to keep them in order and I am admittedly not the best at it despite my attempts to put them in time out. I don't think I am superior to anybody but there are things that I am decent at which shld be a given for my age I mean it wld be pretty embarrassing if I somehow managed to live this long and not be decent at anything in particular at all.

anyways, I feel like I at least have hope now.

eta: a bunch of xposts, catching up

[Frogging Mollie]

what the hell are you going to do? vote me? HA

maybe if someone else asked, but not from you, miss mafia theory.

AHAHAHAHA

omg you are such scum metal. I was waffling for a minute but no, you are scum.

[Frogging Mollie]

Singer hasn't caught up, btw, so stop being full of shit about that

have you read the part where if singer caught up to its entirety that she would know what's going on?

bet you didnt

"flavor is irrelevant" is only said by scum or really bad town.

the disclaimer is there to avoid game breaking by flavor.

im the main character, and im in the title of the game, and im in anky's avatar.

i'm confirmed town.

anybody who uses "flavor is irrelevant" to discredit THAT (See: plum) is scum wanting a mislynch

wrt the bold: so if the disclaimer is there to avoid game breaking by flavour then can you walk me through again as to how exactly are you conftown given what you said in the prior?

[Frogging Mollie]

DIE SCUM DIE!!!1!

this whole thing looks like desperate scum flailing I wld bet anything on it

you are angling your aTe and flat out lying and when called out on it you refuse to quantify probs cos you can't

the loe/hate relationship is something that you have said yourself and I think it is true. you are playing your game to whoever weaker player you see around which is something that you do consistently as scum. <----- this isn't meta pattern matching by the way, cos you will tis in different ways which have nothing to do with syntax or approaches.

[Frogging Mollie]

its very easy


i die today,

then i venge you die tomorrow


not only that

if you are town, you are out. like srsly out.

if you are scum ur getting lynched anyway so meh


bet it ^ and i'll fullclaim

so

you were so unsure about the rules that you pmed the list mods hours in advance to ask something about replace outs no wait something about trust tells and then posted that you were replacing out anyways and the implication that you presented at the time was that you were in contact with 5 list mods and they talked you out of replacing or trust telling or whatever in the time frame it took to announce that you were replacing out and subsequent retraction?

I am just trying to keep it all straight.

whoops

[Frogging Mollie]

uh, i pmed 5, i only got 1 reply.

i dont think they talked me out, more like "you cant do X" and i was going to do X and so "oh wait fuck" so retract.

then you shld be able to say what it was that you were going to do that wld result in either a trust tell that had something to do with a replace out cos I mean that in context is what you implied and am pretty sure that you have figured out that you can paraphrase what the mod said (which singer pointed out and you kept trying to ignore) but you can't quote the exact text from the mod.

keep on the misreps there buddy it is what got you lynched in nightless.

[Frogging Mollie]

Please stop asking about my communications with listmods until singer gives the clear. Thanks.

pretty sure singer gave the clear when she asked you to clarify your communication with them which you refused to do despite plum pointing out that you were refusing to do it and there was no good reason for it!

[Frogging Mollie]

Please stop this line of questioning. Whatever I would have done would have instantly conftowned my slot, and I don't mean "ori is a conftown team" that kind of farce conftown, but legitimately my slot would be universally townread and probably shot N1.

Wait till singer gets up to date, and she will give the orders.

all you are doing is stalling.

the only way you cld have conftown your slot is if you posted your role pm. which you know not to do!

[Frogging Mollie]

Yukari wants to now keep MS alive after 1 vs 1ing him for so long. MS I presume also wants the same thing? Yukari basically soft claimed an investigative so ugh. Yukari is totally playing against their town meta in two games on here and I don't know what to account for the huge change.

Mollie and I discussed the same thing. Question is, which investigative? Now the seem like they are buddying up to MS after a long head to head against each other. Also, them pushing their own towntell??? And that meta...

[Frogging Mollie]

Glad to see signer and plum back. And yea singer, unless we get lynched or nked d1/n1 we can likely easily sort out MS on d2.

People are already speculating on what this means, however, I've also seen ZZZX promise that he can sort people out in late game, so... >_>

Good point. I've noticed though that Yukari has been hard pushing this.....

Spoiler: Yukari

Lol, someone is floundering like a fish on land, seems very worried and frustrated. And in a hurry to get someone else lynched despite having 2week TL for d1. We have never seen such an emotional breakdown to a little pressure to the point where someone thinks swearing like a sailor and screaming in bold is a good idea. Chill a bit bro, it's a just game no need to take things personally.
So yea, with more than twice the number of posts than anyone else, and less substance, he screams scum by trying waaay to hard to appear town. Worried more about how he looks than scumhunting.

My english isnt the best but I can see alot of misrep here, How can asking someone if he can sort people out hunting for good scum hunters? sorting people out = reading them... Also metal as scum has a prob decent idea of this playerlist so he wouldnt need help to know who can scum hunt.

I doubt both metal and yuka are town, its prob tvs or mayybeeee svs, but i doubt the latter.

We calls it like we sees it. In our limited experience, people who focus on looking for the most town and best scumhunters, specially at the exlusion of genuine scumhunting, tend to flip scum. We are looking for scum first, not who is "most" town. It is an entirely different creature to post a list of ppl you have a town read on alongside scumreads, than it is to go around asking who the best scumhunters (nk target due to being more dangerous for scum to leave in game)are and why.

post

i think you might be town, but your push on MS is extremely misguided

just as one point, the "ori role" is literally how theme games work - you have a character (ori) with a mafia role assigned to it (and even then it doesn't have to be a standard mafia role, some theme games have more complex or entirely new roles). it's not a fake claim just bc "there's no ori role on the wiki". and you're still misinterpreting how the setup works - the role pools in the first post only apply to actual mafia roles and not character flavors.

and him claiming he saw your role PM is pretty obviously a joke

among other things

i think *if* MS is scum here, it's likely not for any of the reasons you're pointing out. i can break it down in-depth if you want.

We admitted early on that we don't understand the setup, and we still dont fully get it. Also, our very early game playstyle may seem unusual but we have our reasons for this which we will explain at either L-1 or D-2. Suffice to say for now that we wanted to appear slightly scummy. Nobody really bit on that cept for MS, though counts much less due to omgus. Sry if this fails to make sense right now, but everything has a reason even if unclear.
Also, you may see a joke, but all we see is a very bad lie and bad choice to say such a thing.

Oh, and for all you crazy meta readers out there, Yukari-scum NEVER promises to be town unless specifically asked to. So please, play with us and leave MS for us to sort d2. Look for other scum d1 and we will make more sense d2 if we survive the night. Though hopefully we do get nked just so we can go back to newbie game with regular matrix6 setup.

Tired of asking so won't do it again.

Promise we are town. We still have our eye on you as possible scum but would prefer to sort you out d2. If you are town, work with us for a moment. 3 scum in the game, look into who was on either bandwagon and why? we still see you as scummy, but we overplayed it a bit to get an early wagon going, and without being serious about the joke we can at least see you as possible town again. We have reasons for wanting to play riskier here and change up our style from our old game. Hell our last game started in june 2014, before then it was may and sep 2013. Surely you dont expect us to play the same way we did 1-2 years ago? Specially when we did not like the way we played or how the game turned out last time. Have explained most reasons already, but some info would best be hidden for now.

Don't lynch metal d1 pls, just don't. We will explain why @ dawn of d2. If you think MS = scum then look for his scumbuddy for d1 lynch.

Glad to see signer and plum back. And yea singer, unless we get lynched or nked d1/n1 we can likely easily sort out MS on d2.

We don't intend to unvote until zzzx finally gets around to at least answering our question. Maybe not even then.

And no, we do not intend to answer you right now MS. That can wait until L-1 or D-2.

What I want to know is what is the motivation for it. Why did they want to so badly lynch MS earlier, now they want so badly sort them D2? I don't understand that change in mindset. Why are they pushing it so hard? Are they trying to push an investigative role this hard for survival? I'd try to be less blatant about breadcrumbing this, but maybe that's just me...

Pedit: Not rolefishing. Just wondering. I'm trying to understand their motivation for this, because their playstyle is certainly odd...

[Frogging Mollie]

@Yukari: Fair enough. I had to go look up slayer's gambit, for the record. Still learning...

@Singer: I feel like if I can sort Yukari now, I can use it to sort some other players as well based on Yukari's interactions with other players. Because other than yourself, I have the best grasp of Yukari's history.

[Frogging Mollie]

Or I could just let Mollie do everything, but that's no fun for me then, is it?

[Frogging Mollie]

This isn't related to the game but with personalities, aka Bookitty and Mollie so in spoilers and irrelevant to the game:

Spoiler:

Bookitty, Mollie started it - she already stated that she aggressively took a pot shot on me for asking RQS questions and in DOA she took several based on thinking I was from a different site. The fact that you are now misreading or ignoring that aspect of her play and how she keeps asking your for help confuses me and makes me wonder about whether the two of you are aligned.

Plum also wasn't favorable about RQS questions but handled it differently. Mollie on the other hand, I mean her reputation as town is "mean," my reputation as town being tunneled is also "mean" but I generally avoid low blows and hers went too far for my tastes without deserving some adequate response. That's the difference with a pattern of taking pot shots.

Looking through some of mollie's games she has a habit of trying to degrade players with statements about how she doesn't know why she plays mafia anymore because apparently players these days are such dumb fucks. I mean look at the ETL game she had me read, she does the same thing there and she did the same thing in DOA. I notice patterns and I don't take insults whether passive aggressive or otherwise from anyone. Players who think they can shit on what they assume to be newbies or different from them, are just a lot more about themselves then anyone else.

I'm not new to mafia - and no longer new to this site. I do have a chip on my shoulder and confidence in my abilities. I always believe I can win fair and square through effort and will. That's my attitude. If you get in my way though then you'll feel my wrath.

I actually don't mind players with attitudes like Mollie's - she tries to bring players to emotional breakdowns through haranguing (as in the game she linked and I read and this one) - IF they can deal with getting the blowback in response. But when I gave Mollie some of her own condescending attitude back she tried to play the sympathy card and asked ika not to invite me to games she /in'ed to. Awww...crocodile tears, much? Either be capable of owning your own shitty attitudes and stop pretending to be a pure little hippie snowflake or I don't care.

Mollie I really don't care about your crazy theories about little munchkins or aliens or Chihuahuas living in peoples brains and doing jazz hands, I have my own more clear theories about your in game demeaning insults.

You reaction to receiving even a light insult back is to resort to personal attacks that go out of game and attack a person's psychology. Are you denying attacking me on a personal level now with all the "inferiors" nonsense or crazyspeak?

I wouldn't want to go into personal territory because that would be rude and OOG now wouldn't it?

holy jesus mother of christ

elusive are you unable to recognize or identify the basic components of plato's allegory "the cave"? its philosophy 101. it is ironically apt wrt you and I think it cld be of some value to you after some contemplative introspection.

I didn't insult you by not answering your questions, it is called setting a boundary. I honestly haven't paid much attention to you cos i think your town and it has become apparent the more your post that you aren't quite able to parse what is being said to you at times.

also the intention of my refusal to answer your questions is not to "insult" but to establish a boundary.

aaaaaaaaand this is my last response to you.

[Frogging Mollie]

"LAMIST" haha. Someone tried using that on me a few newbie games ago, but I was actually town, so it's not always so accurate. Mollie can teach you what the difference is between someone who tries to use it to clear themselves and avoid scrutiny, and someone who maybe seriously believes they might be the next nightkill.

But that's not why I pointed out your post.

I'm just wondering what the point is of speculating soft-claims like this so early on.

Elusive offered up this option out of the blue which is scum motivated because it gets information to the rest of your team, and now you asking what kind of investigative seems like pretty heavy rolefishing. It makes me le sads.

Preview Edit:
@ZZZX...it would be nice to see you comment on other things if you had enough time to process and comment on that one sentence in my post stating your name, that was mostly referring to not trusting someone else's ability to "wait til later"... >_>

I special hunt as either alignment and sadly I am more accurate as town moreso than scum which is pretty ironic cos it wld obvsly be much more beneficial as scum. how I handle them is wildly different even if it appears the same on the surface; they are the same as in i tend to ignore them and leave the player alone (which as scum they seem to inevitably wind up investigating me if left alive) but as town I try to steer suspicion off of them. I started doing this when I somehow managed to out 4 specials on d1 in a 24 hour offsite game AS TOWN. like by the third 1 all I said was FOS THIS and got a tracker claim.

I am eh about yukari cos for a moment I was entertaining the fantasy that yukari and metal were scum together and in the case of scum!metal lynch it wld make yukari look like gold and unlynchable but occam's just wants to shut these paranoid delusions down. I even said in our gchat to froggy "mebbe yukari is the mafia role cop!" but occam's has a louder voice right now.

oh hai I also just threw up a ton of self meta to demonstrate to froggy THAT IT CAN BE DONE AS TOWN COS HE KNOWS WE ARE TOWN. it isn't a scumtell.

but since we are on the topic of rolefishing and every1 and every1 and their grandmothers are doing it I feel like metal looks skeevier than elusive, I think elusive is just used to discussing them openly cos that is what her homesite is does. ika does it as well altho not so much anymore and it drives me nuts.

[Frogging Mollie]

no scumbag

you fell for my honeypot


my honeypot is too effectively apparently >__________>

This feels so reactionary by Metal. Yukari ropes metal in then says they were honeypotting, then Metal, realizing he got caught goes, NO YOU FELL FOR MY HONEYPOTTING!

We mostly agree with this read on mollie, can def see her as scum, which is a scary thought since she oozes town vibes to us. We want to believe mollie is town.

I mostly agree with Yukari's read on the above. I too am afraid that mollie is the one that fell for the honeypot, not you Yukari. Which is hell of problematic, because I was adamant that you were the one.

I remembered that I have a weakness of disengaging on scum when they townread me after my interrogation. So do not think that you are in the clear yet.

Then they try to push it off as Mollie fell for it instead, after Yukari agrees with them. But Metal doesn't want to appear let Yukari off the hook that easy, because it looks disingenuous if they do let them off easy.

Elusive offered up this option out of the blue which is scum motivated because it gets information to the rest of your team,

I was the first to point it out, by the way. I'm that

bad

insensitive guy who points out the elephant in the room.

Also, can you firm up your read on Yukari? One issue I have with you is that you apparently thought I was scum but you asked me to vote with you on Yukari before the weekend. Now you're asking her to vote with you on me. So what is your read on her?

Yukari is crumbing something so obviously that if you guys dont see it you all are blind. scum also probably saw it already so i'm breaking the news here.

will not lynch yukari today.

1. Metal has now let Yukari off the hook (for now)
2. Metal is intentionally pointing out he is the first ones to point out the "elephant in the room" to try to get town cred for it. Screams..."Hey, look at me! I'm doing something scummy and I'm going to point it out so I can't possibly be scum!" ... the quoted above is Metal quoting himself, trying to push his own town-tell even further by repeating it (and crossing out bad for further emphasis).

I was already confident in scum!Metal because my other hydra head is pretty good at this. But now maybe you guys can see it's more than just a Mollie on Metal thing? Metal is scum and should be lynched.

[Frogging Mollie]

also, I would like to know if fro9 has literally anything to say that isn't related to anything Yukari/MS did

while there are far stronger reasons for them being scum, one thing that I'm taking as a weak scum tell here is that fro9's focus has been entirely on Yukari and MS did with no reads elsewhere - it feels like he just wants to pop in time to time to comment on the main target rather than proactively providing content

137 was me giving reads on four players, including sorting singer separately from Mollie.

I've interacted plenty with Elusive.

I've now focused on Yukari/Metal because it was clear at least one of them are scum. You mean my 818 isn't content? It helped me sort the situation out separately from Mollie.

[Frogging Mollie]

This is a blatant lie. I refuted basically all of her points in 583, which she did not adequately address (her next post was just her pulling up MS' "replace out" issue over and over again and did not address what I was actually saying).

no, you didn't. your first point was that metal was sheeping ika in rvs when ika was clearly wanting to move the game out of rvs. then metal sheeped ika a second time still coughing up "cos its ika!" for doing so when the game was quite CLEARLY out of rvs and the awkward clearance of metal for "rvs sheeping is not a scumtell" is not applicable in the first place. I thought i pointed this out. I am pretty sure I did. no lie actually took place cos you strawmanned my argument.

She is blatantly acting here. She is doing this because she *knows* her "arguments" on MS don't hold any water, yet she's trying to push them anyway. Therefore she has to constantly play up the idea that "I haven't refuted any of her points" - when I clearly have - in the hope that people accept it as truth without cross-referencing it. She's not backing off and admitting she doesn't have any ground to stand on because she doesn't care about sorting MS here; she wants to push MS/me as scum and is making the evidence fit the conclusion and she'll look like obvscum if she backs down at this point.

This is highly disingenuous and likely scum.

I am not acting. I have pointed out as to why metal was scum and you poopooed them away. his first few questions were innocuous and there were a couple of players trying to move the game out of rvs for various reasons. I said he was asking these type of questions in lieu of actual scumhunting and the only person who addressed this was plum. I mean there is no genuine argument when you fail to address the original points in the first place within the contextual timeframe that it happened.

we were out of rvs. metal was still sheeping ika. so the defense that metal was doing it in rvs is where the lie is actually lies hehe.

mollie is pushing MS as scum. She is then faced with actual repercussions on a MS town flip. Rather than actually having conviction to lynch MS here, what does she do? She awkwardly attempts to back off in response to said repercussions.

nope. that is me waffling for a minute and wondering if I am wrong about metal. "shelving it" means I am going to start looking elsewhere to sink my teeth into in case I am wrong. I just reeeeeeaaally don't think I am. too many things about metal do not add up.

And what did she do next?

Once she sees that the possibility of me being scum even *if* MS flips town here is gaining support, she stops caring, comes out full force again, and jumps right along with it so that she has a way out of it after MS flips town - namely, pushing me as scum instead.

Note, she doesn't actually stop to consider at any point *why* me-scum would do this if MS is town.

There are potential explanations, but nothing she's posted indicates she's considering them, it's just "lol chainsaw" without explaining why it's scummy or refuting my arguments. NOTICE ANY SIMILARITY IN WHAT SHE'S DOING TO MS?

cos I feel like if metal flipped town then the town cred that wld be gained wld be obvs? like wking is a thing.

When MS flips town, molliefrog needs to burn a fucking fiery death. (And I really don't give a shit if you think I'm "lining up lynches" here, when I've explained why I'm doing this already - if you think this is the case, actually refute my points.)

okay.

[Frogging Mollie]

I don't understand how people can't see this shit.

and I don't see how it shld be obvs that metal was doing nothing but sheeping ika outside of rvs which you insist that he was sheeping ika in rvs when that isn't what happened. like that was stage 1 which I tried to address with you but you didn't so the breakdown of communication started there. if you address this mebbe we can get somewhere cos any others until you correct the premise from which you are trying to spin from is incorrect cos what you call a refutation and what I call a strawman is pretty incompatible. so how about you address the point that metal was sheeping ika outside of rvs and asking innocuous questions in lieu of scumhunting, if you *happen* to be town cld you plz do this for me? then we can move on to point 2!

go reread what happened if you need to.

[Frogging Mollie]

this is nothing more than a semantic argument

even if it was "out of RVS", that would not change the fact that MS pretty fucking obviously wasn't taking it seriously

see when confronted with a genuine refute to what you were originally presenting you poo poo it away and call it "a semantics argument" when I keep trying to say look at the timing and the context. and you wonder why I think you are scum.

the fact that it was out of rvs nullifies your refutation cos your whole basis is that my point is shitty cos IT WAS IN RVS when I am saying it is demonstrably not the case. I keep trying to point this out and you keep dismissing it. we cannot get to point 2 unless you can actually address my point instead of poopooing it away. of the 4? games I have played with you I know 3 of them we were both town in and kept putting scum in your town category for really dumb reasons. we lost them all. muffina in touhou, desp in gm's game and sakura/nacho in touhou2. I am trying to appeal to you that if you are town, you systemically try to correct some of your weird leanings which I think are just WRONG.

if you are town I wld love to see the TOWN!YOU freaking reevaluate cos you are spinning from the wrong axis. if it takes our death in order for you to do this so be it, we will flip town and then you will be forced to do so anyway which will make your head spin.

even if his first questions were innocuous, it's not scummy. it is equally likely to come from town who just want to have fun early game. and regardless, I think what he did since then has been pretty fucking controversial - so it's as I said before. you think MS started off trying to appease everyone, thinking this would work for ... ??? ... and then changed his strategy for ... why ... ?

I think metal started off wanting to not rock the boat or make waves. there is an obvs scum strategy behind this.

yes, it is somewhat of a he-said she-said and not something I'd expect a refutation for, but it is compelling reason to think that your actions here were aimed more to fit the convenience of the situation

humour me and explain the comparative value of how it is somehow more scummy for me to continuously push metal when I think he is scum when he has not given me a reason to think otherwise vs his sudden push on me or anything that is lynch worthy other than him. he is trying to look for the 1 most likely to go through.

yes, and you don't stop to consider that...... I might miraculously have figured it out via my scum hunting ability?!?!

given I know that we are town :/.

the way you did it feels more like you're posturing to discredit me rather than sorting my alignment. it was just "WNI's chainsaw of MS is off" and that was all there was to it.

but I have explained as to why your defense of metal looks like a chainsaw. the reasons I gave are either you poopooing them away or you strawmanning them. until we get past that, I doubt any meaningful convo will follow.

I don't particularly care about walling with you when you still haven't addressed why you claimed I supposedly "never" tried to deconstruct your arguments, when I obviously did.

because I don't think that poopooing away or strawmanning arguments wrt to your original defense are an actual deconstruction of an argument?

I mean srsly. entertain the premise that metal is hypothetically scum who was not trying to make waves and blend in and mebbe work from there if you sincerely want to talk.

then we can move on to point2!

[Frogging Mollie]

your statement that all my other arguments follow from MS "sheeping ika in RVS" is, put bluntly, false.

I am not saying that all your points stem from metal sheeping ika in rvs, that is what you are saying which isn't what I am saying at all.

I am saying that we are in a locked down fixture where I cannot move from point A to be B as long as you treat that metal was sheeping ika in rvs as an immoveable force as a counter to point 1. get beyond that and then we will talk.

for a more specific explanation of what I'm getting at, since I just linked it with no explanation:

mollie essentially pushed zmuffin all game without any reasoning behind it. and she wrote a lot of words and made a lot of noise about it, but when you condensed what her reasoning actually was, there was hardly anything to it - and zmuffin correctly called her out for this and eventually got her lynched. she basically did what she did here in that there was a fuckton of ATE, stroking ppl's egos, and empty statements with no backing behind them (and then constantly dodging it when she gets called out for it).

oh hai was that the game that metal was in? oh yeah! I wonder who is feeding you this shit like it is just so hard to figure out.

I am not making empty statements (oh hai discredit!) are you gonna address point1 or not and entertain the idea of working from a different premise or not.

I feel like I am getting hoarse in the throat with the repetition of this question which keeps getting ignored.

hint: saying it is a semantics argument clearly isn't doing it for me since somehow me saying that metal was scum for sheeping ika out of rvs when that is what he was doing and you not working from that trajectory sort of still puts us back at point1 which you cannot honestly come up with any answer to.

[Frogging Mollie]

Let me fucking spell this out, because you're being deliberately dense about this.

oh ho ho

do the nasty pie do it

My point was not that MS sheeping ika took place in RVS. My point was that

MS was very clearly not being serious when he was "sheeping" ika.

The fact that it took place is RVS is intended as evidence that this is the case, but it is not the main point. You can quite clearly tell the way he was doing it wasn't serious.

your point was that it was "not srs"

cos

it was in rvs. bereft of that point, what do you do now?

So how would he have intended it to earn a town read from ika here? He's not even being serious about it. I'm fairly sure both of us know joke posts are entirely null, and if ika is actually someone who'd town read someone because they sheeped him in RVS, then lol? That's his fault as opposed to any sort of scum plan MS would have came up with here.

It is more likely that if he is scum here, he did it because he thinks he would have joked around as town, and so that's what he did - and in this case, it could as easily just be him actually joking around as town.

Which makes it a null tell a opposed to anything scum indicative.

oh hai mebbe we are getting somewhere. I think he did it to blend in and look harmless and no matter how much you try to deny it I think he did it in order to suck up to ika. <----- scum motivation right here. cld you plz explain the joke tia? it reminds greatly of how he sucked up to nacho in nightless early game. so not null!

Nitpicking over when, specifically, RVS ended, does not do anything to change this and is nothing more than a bullshit semantics argument. And you know this.

nit picking began when you defended metal by saying that it was an rvs when it wasn't. I guess you finally checked your facts? in case you are confused you said my point was invalid cos what metal did was in rvs which is nitpicky; when I pointed out no, no it wasn't you decide to push that i am making a nitpicky semantics argument w/o ever engaging the point in a way that reflects that I DUNNO MEBBE YOU ARE WRONG AND THAT METAL WAS TRYING TO BLEND IN AND NOT MAKE WAVES AND SUCK UP TO IKA. LIKE YOU ARE NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING TO MEET ME HALFWAY HERE.

Except, yes, it is what you said. You quite explicitly said that, until I explain MS' "sheeping ika outside of RVS", all my other points are invalid. When this is very clearly not how it works.

what i am saying is that we cannot get from point A to point B if your counter point to my original point is based on an untrue statement. <----- like ho yai plz acknowledge this.

if you want to cling to your arguably null read on metal UP UNTIL THIS POINT as if you were stranded in antarctica wearing nothing but a tank top and shorts OKAY THEN. we can work from there:

1. you have decided it was null
2. I see scum trying to blend in

I am not addressing the rest cos it is repetitive but mebbe we can move on to point2 now that we have established the boundaries of where we are both coming from but we still need some edges of point1 sorted a bit.

moreover, *if* he wanted to suck up to someone, what benefit would there be to doing it to ika as opposed to someone he is more familiar with (such as myself or yourself)? and even if he did see it fit to buddy ika for whatever reason, where was the follow-up on it? just "sheeping" someone in RVS really does not buddying make as it really does not do anything to gain credibility with someone in the long term - if that was his scum strategy here, he likely would have continued to buddy up to him after RVS was over, or at least done *something* else along those lines, but that's not what he did. the next mention of ika was 166 (reads list where he puts him as town) and then 282/285 (mentions him in passing).

THIS is where it gets weird for me. cos you are asking about the benefits of metal buddying any1 while providing a comparative value system that goes no where. I am specificaly referencing the "why not or you" and somehow you arrive to the conclusion that he is town for this since you are defending as to why ika is not scum. when really what you just outlined is the very definition of null and wifom. my counter is that oh hai I still think he was buddying ika in the first place mebbe cos ika had a good grasp of the playerlist and influence on quite a few players that was evident at the time? I can see plenty of reasons to cozy up to ika, are you disagreeing with this assessment?

[]yes
[]no

there's nothing in his ISO up to this point that could be construed as buddying or sucking up to him. so you think his scum strategy was apparently to sheep ika in RVS in order to buddy him, bc he thought this would allow him to get on ika's good side for ..... ??? ..... and then completely drop it?

this response is contingent on how you map out the yes or no question.

saying that he's scum for doing the same thing he did in his scum game, by itself, is also shallow, for the same reason. I'm pretty sure MS generally buddies ppl when he's town as well as when he's scum. saying it's part of his scum game feels more like you're twisting the evidence to fit the conclusion instead of analyzing it objectively - that he would likely do something like this as either alignment.

I find it interesting that you are accusing me of meta pattern matching when I have been saying that it is terrible. cos it isn't what I am doing.

lets drink some water here and pause for a second.

this is where I look at your original opposition and I feel like I have counter deconstructed your argument to where I think you shld have metal as null based on your arguments but you didn't, you had him as town. that is why you defended him. so I wld like better reasons for why you thought (or even still think, answers to both wld be nice) he is town. cos I am pretty unclear on it.

I hate wall wars. however I do engage them when I am genuinely trying to understand some1 and how their mind is working in a game. and I want to understand you pie. I really do.

that is why I am trying to sort things out with you from the foundation up.

this is where I am at right now.

[Frogging Mollie]

i honestly have no idea what you're on about for the majority of that post. i could likely write a response to it consisting entirely of quotes

i don't really want to keep writing walls about this when, *if* you are town here, we likely won't get anywhere

although to clarify, as i've already said, i didn't really have him as town when i started defending him. i defended him because the way you were pushing him made no sense and was scummy as fuck.

also,

I find it interesting that you are accusing me of meta pattern matching when I have been saying that it is terrible. cos it isn't what I am doing.

it reminds greatly of how he sucked up to nacho in nightless early game. so not null!

/whistle

/blown

it is less of pattern matching but more of a gravitational pull.

[Frogging Mollie]

like i'm still trying to read through it to make sure i'm not misinterpreting something and i've explained all of it already

for example, i literally just told you my point was not that MS sheeped ika "in RVS", rather that the way he did it wasn't serious; and you seem to have completely missed or ignored it

cld you plz with sugar on top answer the yes or no question?

we can go from there!

[Frogging Mollie]

UNVOTE:

oh I have words. I have many many words.

[Frogging Mollie]

okay. I am going to froggy to see if I wanna even stay in this game. there are 2 giant dealbreakers going on that I am not comfortable with.

1. metal and the list mod communication.
2. this game has a hood and it was not advertised as such. I HATE hoods. and I am going to tell you why.

hoods are incredibly scum sided especially when they are of mixed alignment. nearly every large themed in 2014 contained a hood and oh lookee that was the year town lost most of the larges. there is a ton of wifom that surrounds the claim when it outed under pressure and pple don't understand that the best play for neighbour is to

out the info asap

so that does not read into false positives. it is considered a "speshul role" that has no significant value unless it is played correctly which 9 times out of 10 it simply isn't, this game being a prime example. it throws off a bunch of false associative tells which is hard to parse cos there is always some dummy who will hard defend their hood even if there is scum in it. god I thought we were done with the hood shit in touhou2.

here is a pretty great discussion on hoods:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ghborhoods

at the time this thread was started there was a strong grp of us who were fed up with them and dgb stepped up to give a public service announcement. I feel like they shld be advertised especially in mini themes but I am probs in the minority who thinks so. I feel like they shld be treated as a cult cos dear lord that is how the players themselves treat the role. I think hu2 is the only game that I was in where the hood was played out with any sort of competency.

when there is a hood in play there is a whole portion of the game that the rest of town does not have access to and it just sucks donkey balls. cos no really pple do not know how to effectively play the role. I feel like it shld be treated as a bastard role.

re: the still unresolved soap opera that is the metal/list mod drama:

god if you are going to replace out just do it. what metal did was to say that he wanted to replace out and that a list mod talked him out of it. when he initially brought it up he implied that he talked to 5 list mods. he later said he only talked to 1 after I pointed out that there was no way he cld have talked to that many in that short amount of time. it really shld not be a thing and metal made it a thing by bringing it up in the first place when if he wanted to replace out he shld have just done it.

so far, this game is reaching levels of fubar and I really thought it was gonna be a good game.

if any1 is confused about what trust tells are, lemme point to you a decent thread on it:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... rust+tells

there was another thread that I can't find where mith defined what an actual trust tell

is

; it is when you are guaranteeing your alignment in future games by saying you only do x as a certain alignment. I think there are things that pple only do as either alignment but they are pretty freaking hard to spot unless you really understand how the player

thinks

but this often falls on the deaf ears of pattern matching meta divers. which suits me just fine cos it helps my scum game. <----- self meta wifom here ohnoes! and yaye! I am pretty sure that no1 knows what I am doing half the time nor does any1 pay particular attention to my posts unless it suits them. which I am ironically kind of fine with.

this whole scenario reminds me of the quote, "don't let the facts get in the way of the truth" and I am still trying to find out what the truth actually is.

anyhoo enough of my bitching, moving on...

@ ika

why did you not make it apparent that you were in a hood with metal? cos I find it sort of skeevy that you wld push his lynch this hard when you had another medium to sort him out.

discuss.

after all of this and me talking things over with myself I still think metal is scum. but now I wanna sort ika in case I am wrong cos there have been a couple of things that don't quite make sense coming from you i.e. how you handle roles.

this is all for like a minute.

[Frogging Mollie]

Please don't replace out, Mollie. I joined this game to play with you and with my unplanned absence this weekend I feel like I haven't gotten to at all.

I don't blame you if you do, but I wish you wouldn't.

I am not going to replace out unless froggy wants us to but the game is just getting

weird

. if he is okay with us flying batshit blind and bumping things in the dark and in the light then I am too. I regret saying, "be nice to him" cos I think it will make the game harder for him to work things out on his own.

[Frogging Mollie]

many words, little content


par for the course


p-edit well i posted too late

i am trying not to be mean here but i blame her for everything 100%

posts like this are why I still think you are scum.

plz explain as to why you think we are scum.

cos you just look like desperate scum flailing like you have been doing this all game.

I think lynching you is the correct play here for reasons that have been stated.

[Frogging Mollie]

many words, little content


par for the course


p-edit well i posted too late

i am trying not to be mean here but i blame her for everything 100%

posts like this are why I still think you are scum.

plz explain as to why you think we are scum.

cos you just look like desperate scum flailing like you have been doing this all game.

I think lynching you is the correct play here for reasons that have been stated.

i think you are scum because you are scumtunnelling me and being useless for what.. oh look! 35 pages.

just get lynched.

erm

that is not an actual good reason to scum read me?

I mean you have not been able to cough up 1 good reason as to why we are scum. I mean your whole premise is that I scumread you and after questioning you, you introduced an outside element to the game by bringing in list mods which I find scummy with how it played out. I have given reads, have tried to reach out so I feel pretty good about our play here. froggy is like "wtf with this meta bs" and I can't blame him.

I mean for 35 pages you refuse to talk about something that you did, and try to hide behind something that is easily resolvable and cld potentially break open the game.

like I said, your flailing looks like desperate scum.

[Frogging Mollie]

Well. This game is a shit show. So much for trying to have a nice fun game on this site. Three out of my four games have turned into absolute crap. Not a good intro to this site. I'd still like to play, but it's really up to Mollie, not myself if she wants to replace out. I don't mind flying solo, I'm picking up on things pretty fast.

Not Mollie's fault either. She's been a great teacher/hydra, and I've learned tons from her <3

I'll try to reply more tonight. I'm in an all day work meeting.

[Frogging Mollie]

Please don't replace out, Mollie. I joined this game to play with you and with my unplanned absence this weekend I feel like I haven't gotten to at all.

I don't blame you if you do, but I wish you wouldn't.

I'll still play even if this is too frustrating for Mollie. I didn't even realize singer replaced out, which bummed me too

Hopefully you can enjoy playing this silly game with me as you do with Mollie!

One thing I'm really not liking is the "If so-and-so flips town I'm coming after _____." It's like a threat without a purpose, because OBVIOUSLY when someone flips town we always look at the wagon on that person. I think you're town, for instance, Mollie, and if they manage to lynch you and you flip that way, I could make similar threats.

I agree. Also, WHEN we flip town, look for scum in Yukari and/or Metal. Obviously WNI is going to kill me for saying that, because I keep coming back to them, but I don't care beacause I konw we're town, and the whole Yukari/Metal thing doesn't make sense. But, WNI, what will you think WHEN we flip town?

Somewhere within Yukari and the neighborhood I'm certain is at least one scum.

[Frogging Mollie]

Anyway, lunch break is over. I'll be back on in like 7-8 hours after this stupid all day work meeting crap.

[Frogging Mollie]

MS, the neighborhood was pre-made? As in you didn't get to choose or anything?

This game is in a weird state right now.

its me - VT
pie - kuro (main antagonist of game)
MS - Ori (main character)

so. your hood contains the main antagonist for the game and your character and since you are running around screaming how you are confirm town via YOUR flavour role can you plz walk me through as to how you managed to ignore that your antagonist for flavour was in your hood?

like no.

a million times no.

[Frogging Mollie]

1)ika, you can't argue that flavor means nothing and then try to argue that flavor means something. And in the end Kuro sacrifices herself to help save the day so if that's the case then MS and pie are town based on flavor.

2)I'm having a little trouble with the VT part of the claims due to reasons.

3)I'm also really annoyed at ika outing the flavor of pie at least and also hiding the fact that he was in the neighbor and that there was a reason for MS to be friendly towards him.

pie has been pretty convincing so far, I like being able to follow her reasoning and logic.

I don't like Mollie's game here, I'm not sure what the alignment is, but she has no other scum reads it seems other then MS and pie for defending him which seems very narrow. Then after reading the ETL game, her tunneling or yelling scum at town is a thing.

1) i wasnt i was jsut showing how if we did it would be more likely that our antagonaist would be scum
2) so your hinting to be vt too? nice
3) news flash i was giving full incentive that there was a damn neghborhood, i really dont care atm you skeeved at me, i wanted MS gone form our neighborood the moment he spammed it.

as for the rest, i have no words and jsut not even going to respond.

just go ahread and vote mollie

its okay. I hated being scummates with metal too I even made a stink about it in the scummies award ceremony thread.

we will still flip town!

[Frogging Mollie]

thanks ika, for outing roles and helping scum narrow the nk pile. good work.

go to the cave sister and then spot the difference between the shadows that you see and what actually takes form.

metal fucked his team over in a big way. like huge.

[Frogging Mollie]

Well. This game is a shit show. So much for trying to have a nice fun game on this site. Three out of my four games have turned into absolute crap. Not a good intro to this site. I'd still like to play, but it's really up to Mollie, not myself if she wants to replace out. I don't mind flying solo, I'm picking up on things pretty fast.

Not Mollie's fault either. She's been a great teacher/hydra, and I've learned tons from her <3

I'll try to reply more tonight. I'm in an all day work meeting.

sorry froggy

[Frogging Mollie]

-BIG HUGS- to Ika

Course you can

*hugs back*

ty

im gonna call on a freind of mine to take singers place. i need people who i can legit work with and keep me in check now that mollies gone

I am not gone?

I said I was going to go and that it depended on froggy. I was wondering if he was okay getting mislynched.

I did not start this shit show and I am srsly fucking

TIRED

for being held responsible for what other players do.

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie i have work soon but can you be here in about 9-10 hrs.

i just need someone that i can talk to at this point and your lack of precence is what hindges me a lot

I have been present all game.

I wld very much like for you and pie and metal to answer how a protagonist and an antagonist exists in your hood and none of you thought to mention it before now when metal was claiming the protagonist and kept saying he was conftown just by his flavour role being in the game when....there is the antagonist in your hood and somehow that makes him town.

like really.

[Frogging Mollie]

sorry froggy

Not your fault!

I am not gone?

I said I was going to go and that it depended on froggy. I was wondering if he was okay getting mislynched.

I did not start this shit show and I am srsly fucking

TIRED

for being held responsible for what other players do.

If you want out, I will still play as us. No worries. Do not feel like you have to stay in if this is driving you crazy. I don't mind.

If you are going to stay in and we get somehow voted up to L-1/claiming/whatever, then everyone should absolutely let both you and ME have final words before a lynch. If they don't, they are fucking scum. I have some important things to say if it comes to that point to help town, as I'm sure you do.

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie i have work soon but can you be here in about 9-10 hrs.

i just need someone that i can talk to at this point and your lack of precence is what hindges me a lot

I have been present all game.

I wld very much like for you and pie and metal to answer how a protagonist and an antagonist exists in your hood and none of you thought to mention it before now when metal was claiming the protagonist and kept saying he was conftown just by his flavour role being in the game when....there is the antagonist in your hood and somehow that makes him town.

like really.

cus based on how the hood went in pre-game i took pie being a pr and being very calculated.

but more on point: i ignore flavors entirely and find that they have nothing and took it for a grain fo salt and had no indication to persue a mechanic based thing that really has no bearings on the game itself

why did you not mention this when metal tried to clear himself via role flavour?

[Frogging Mollie]

sorry froggy

Not your fault!

I am not gone?

I said I was going to go and that it depended on froggy. I was wondering if he was okay getting mislynched.

I did not start this shit show and I am srsly fucking

TIRED

for being held responsible for what other players do.

If you want out, I will still play as us. No worries. Do not feel like you have to stay in if this is driving you crazy. I don't mind.

If you are going to stay in and we get somehow voted up to L-1/claiming/whatever, then everyone should absolutely let both you and ME have final words before a lynch. If they don't, they are fucking scum. I have some important things to say if it comes to that point to help town, as I'm sure you do.

I will try to hold the front while you have your say.

if you are OKAY with getting mislynched for shitty reasons when there is an OMG A GIANT FUCKING ELEPHANT OF THE ROOM THAT CONSISTS OF A HOOD WHERE THE PROTAGONIST AND ANTAGONIST FOR FLAVOUR EXISTS BUT FOR SOME STRANGE REASON WE ARE SUPPOSED TO IGNORE THAT DESPITE SOME1 IN THE HOOD BEING STRUNG UP AND WAS TRYING TO USE FLAVOUR CONTENT TO CLEAR HIMSELF I can be good with that too.

<3

[Frogging Mollie]

Aaaand now from the hydra account.

Sigh. I wish Mollie and I even crossed being on gchat today, but we didn't. I had a couple quick breaks to get my responses to her in here through the game thread.

I feel like I have A LOT to say, but I'm not even sure Mollie agrees with me on what I have to say, because I haven't gotten to talk to her. I also bring a very different perspective, and one that probably won't get listened to much anyway. But things are really starting to click here.

[Frogging Mollie]

And for the record, I'm in all day meetings tomorrow and Friday as well. RL job and all.....but I'll post in the evenings and lunch breaks when I can.

[Frogging Mollie]

Sigh. I wish Mollie and I even crossed being on gchat today, but we didn't. I had a couple quick breaks to get my responses to her in here through the game thread.

I feel like I have A LOT to say, but I'm not even sure Mollie agrees with me on what I have to say, because I haven't gotten to talk to her. I also bring a very different perspective, and one that probably won't get listened to much anyway. But things are really starting to click here.

froggy say whatever you want! it doesn't matter if I agree or not, I think it wld be great if you cld just get your thoughts out there. and I will probably agree with anything you say cos at this point the game is just fucked for me so plz do. any insight you have wld be incredibly valuable. I am trying hard not to go into crash and burn mode. but I feel pretty obligated to lay out my thoughts, I am just going to try to do it in a constructive way.

so here we go:

thanks ika, for outing roles and helping scum narrow the nk pile. good work.

go to the cave sister and then spot the difference between the shadows that you see and what actually takes form.

metal fucked his team over in a big way. like huge.

to the fearless reader:

if you haven't noticed yet, Mollie is pulling out all the AtE in response to pressure on her

^ posts like these just make me go cos metal started aTeing

the very second

when pressure was applied to him. does he acknowledge it? no, and it really bugs me that zzthing is not noticing how he did this exact same shit in the nightless game. <---- this is the only thing that is giving me pause to metal being scum at this point. cos zzthing shld be following up on this considering how it took an unreasonable amount of time and mislynches to finally get scum!metal lynched in that game.

all metal is doing is goading and baiting and yet somehow not only does no1 want to look at it pple are somehow townreading him for it.

I am not sure where i stand on metal at this point. too many pple are being sooper dooper weird about this.

@ pie

I think/treat you as a good player cos other pple tell me you are. and these are pple that i respect. I don't reach out to you cos in previous games you simply ignore it even tho it wld have helped you had you at the very least entertained the idea that I am not a complete idiot.

in touhou I had a giant fight with 1 of my hydra partners until we copped muffina who was guilty. when we got the guilty majiffy gave up (who is a brilliant player btw) cos he was hard defending muffina the whole time. borky was like FUCK THIS SHIT WE ARE RESOLVING THROUGH COP RESULTS and we did and somehow town ignored it even tho we crumbed the shit out of it. danny was a scumread based flipped town!serene cos often when dgb's and my reads intersect are usually pretty accurate. he was the sk!

in post game you were pretty hard on yourself and I told you not to be. we all make mistakes.

in touhou2 you had sakura/nacho as town and hard defended them to the bitter end. they flipped scum. and won. there was other fuckery going on as guy had this brilliant idea to put 2 scum in a hood by themselves. <------ this is 1 of the many reasons as to why I hate hoods.

in gm's card game we were a vig and fakeclaimed a hider role which scum believed. there was only 1 person in that game that I was sure was town and that was the person we fakeclaimed to have hid behind (strangecoug). I just wanted every1 else dead including nacho/thorella hydra cos thorella was being a pain. in lylo you voted him and town lost. again.

if you really think that it wld help you to remove us from the game then okay. while some pple are crabbing about our exchange I actually obtained great value from it as in, I think that there is a fundamental breakdown in how we communicate but I don't know how to fix it.

we will flip town, end of story. all I ask is that you just reevaluate your approach if you happen to be town.

@ elusive and grib

I am putting you both as a couple cos you come from the same site and it is pretty clear that you 2 are closing ranks. elusive plz read plato's the cave and just

think

about it.

grib, I don't know what to say, I am all out of steam.

in this game you are striking me as 1 who gravitates to what is familiar to you when you are confronted with an unfamiliar environment. fix it cos when I reassess things you keep landing in the null category which shldn't be the case .

@ boo

I love you. and I am truly sorry. if you are town I am truly sorry.

@ plum

why the unvote.

cos you didn't really explain it.

and I think that is all. except to say I am good with our mislynch but I apologize for leaving a muddy trail.

froggy will have comments and dear lord listen to them.

[Frogging Mollie]

but i DO blame ika for being incorrigible and ignoring role-related info and even saying that if mollie flips scum he refuses to talk in the hood ???

you mean the role flavour related info that has you as a protagonist and wni as an antagonist in a hood that you have somehow managed to ignore?

you can't cut this shit both ways. I think if town lynches 1 of you the rest will topple out.

you can't argue that you are town cos of you flavour role claim and then argue that your antagonist is somehow town.

I think what you have done in this game shld be ban worthy.

and I am going to campaign for it post game cos you are breaking the spirit of the game.

I

want

us to be lynched so I can gracefully step out. and with our town flip some peeps will do some hardcore reevaluation.

if any of you/wni/ika flips anything other than a neighbor then all of you shld probs die. it is why I am at peace.

I wld very much like froggy to post when time allows cos I think he has some things he wants to say. I don't even know what he wants to say but I wld like to hear it.

[Frogging Mollie]

having said that, if a hood exists then metal is the 1 who is scum in it. there shldn't be 2 in it otherwise the game is bastard beyond belief and I just don't ank wld do that to us.

[Frogging Mollie]

God dammit. Sorry for posting from the wrong account.......AGAIN

Spoiler: frogs two posts above

I

want

us to be lynched so I can gracefully step out. and with our town flip some peeps will do some hardcore reevaluation.

This. At this point, I believe our lynch isn't even a bad thing for town, even though it's better to lynch scum. I'll post more tonight.

if we lynch her today and she flips scum it will be an award winning wagon.

You care too much about winning awards instead of playing with integrity. And you won't be winning an award for this game.

(Frog)

[Frogging Mollie]

The setup seems a bit strange to us, trying to wrap mind around how to use it and proc of elimination to determine the actual setup. In particular there is this:

c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

So could this be any extra role ever used on the site? Is there a possible extra role in each pool or extra hidden pools? Any clarification here or on the setup in general would be appreciated.

If you’re town answer, if you don’t answer vig gets a nice clear headshot

Don't like the way you said this. Vig isn't even in the list of roles given in the setup.

Anyways..

Doesn't rly matter which 1 gets lynched, cuz we the vig and we plan to shoot someone1 tonight. Sort em out permanently.

[Frogging Mollie]

This gives me even more to say...really wish I wasn't in this meeting.........

(frog)

[Frogging Mollie]

Yukari, if truthfully claiming, is playing against his win condition just to get back to matrix6, and leaving town down a PR after the night phase. This game is even more fucked now.

(frog)

[Frogging Mollie]

So you’re the mafia two shot rolecop as I suspected. Even told this to Mollie in our gchat.

[Frogging Mollie]

MS, if there are no real baddies in the source story besides one who does good in the end and whom you're writing off as Town because of, not despite flavor, why are you surprised that the traditional sample VT PM isn't a baddie and is Town?

What do you mean by that? I don't understand.

My theory is that the scum's flavor are side characters that nobody remembers.

Is there something that I'm not being clear about?

in other words

town are probably gonna be trees

.

[Frogging Mollie]

Ok...here we go...I have 30 minutes to write up this post...(don't kill me Mollie when I'm done, but this is an IDGAF post anymore).

It's going to be long, and it's going to be informative. You all better freaking read it

(frog)

[Frogging Mollie]

there was once this game that i was in where town did not lynch a player fakeclaimed cop and then later fakeclaimed lyncher. do you know how stupid town was? they lynched the lyncher's target. there was no lyncher. the fakeclaimer was grpscum. I had been trying to get the fakeclaimer lynched after their very first post. and no, it was not a lucky guess.

who were incredibly strong players and town lost and wondered why. <------ this happened in a game I was in.

this game totally reminds me of that.

like, I have no words for what metal is doing and you guys are letting him get away with it.

VOTE: metal

[Frogging Mollie]

Anyway, why do you refuse to vote frogmollie? What exactly makes you think that slot is town?

Give me a chance to speak. I have a big post in progress.

[Frogging Mollie]

Ok...here we go...I have 30 minutes to write up this post...(don't kill me Mollie when I'm done, but this is an IDGAF post anymore).

It's going to be long, and it's going to be informative. You all better freaking read it

(frog)

I think we are on the same page.

[Frogging Mollie]

VOTE: metal

Don't like the assertion that he is confirmed town by the mod. It's totally scummy to assert that day 1 for no reason.

I love you.

he did this shit in nightless too and I kept asking pple "why the fuck are you townreading him in a vanilla nightless game" cos he was being universally townread by my team and the rest of the players in the game until ooba subbed in.

[Frogging Mollie]

Ok, here goes. I don't care if this gets us lynched, because it's going to help town in the long run, even if we get lynched in the short run.

Mollie and Frog, we might be two heads. We might have our own ideas. But we are one fucking town body. We are

Vanilla Town

.

When this game first started, Mollie and I decided pretty quickly on to go good cop/bad cop on people (no, I don't mean cop as in a role, just as a playstyle). Mollie offered me the option of choosing good or bad. I told her I'd be better playing the good cop role, and she agreed I was in a position to play good cop, so we agreed she would play bad cop, and I good. THIS WAS MY DECISION FIRST, AND MOLLIE AGREED.

So Elusive, I must apologize for Mollie's behavior toward you, because it could have been I that was bad cop. This started at post 143. I started good cop at post 153. It continued for a bit, and we took our roles seriously. Mollie even remarked to me in gchat that I was being so strong about my good cop role that I was starting to put her in a bad position. I'm sorry Mollie <3 ... Grib even commented on this as such in 179 about how we seemed to not be reviewing things as one head. Or was this stylistic. It was. Good job Grib.

We also kind of took on this split persona with Metal, but not in quite as a divisive way. We decided early on, because of Metal's buddying up to Ika, asking pointless questions, in lieu of scumhunting, blowing up a smokescreen, etc. I tried to appease Metal from time to time, however, like when I answered Elusive's early questions, and then when I went and pulled up Yukari's ISO.

But pulling up Yukari's ISO really convinced me he is scum in this game. Yukari was way too straightforward in the prior games, both times as town. Here, in my opinion (and I'll expand on this more), they are scum and don't know how to play as scum. They claim they've evolved, and they are playing different from their past meta because of time away, etc. Bunk. I don't believe it one bit. They played so basic in prior games that this kind of evolution is not a natural town evolution for them. They drew scum, and don't know how to play it.

SO PLEASE LISTEN TO MY NEWBIE FUCKING MIND FOR A SECOND HERE.

Yukari is the two shot mafia rolecop.

First, let's look at the setup.

This game has a semi-open element to it. It works as follows:

a) One role from each pool will be randomly chosen. If there are multiples of a role, each pool will be rerolled.
b) Exactly three pools will roll a town role and exactly one will roll a mafia role.
c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

[N] -> Usable at Night.
[D] -> Usable at Day.
[A] -> Usable Action.
[P] -> Passive Action.

---

Pool 1:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Pool 2:

1) 2-shot Doctor
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Voyeur
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:

1) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
2) 2-shot Doctor
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 4:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Exactly ONE of these pools will have a scum role. So when Metal is saying this

It was obvious that there was a vig in the game, because

Pool 2:
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:
4) Mafia Bulletproof

There would be a confirmed vig in the game, because mafia needed a bulletproof. Vigs are the strongest role in mafia if you are a good scumhunter.

he is fucking blatant lying. There doesn't have to be a confirmed vig in the game. Because scum could have been drawn from pool 1 or pool 4 (2 shot mafia rolecop). This is Metal poorly covering for Yukari's dumb claim.

LETS THINK ABOUT THIS FURTHER

There are three options for Yukari.

1. [] Yukari is town PR (vig as claimed)
2. [] Yukari is scum
3. [] Yukari is town non-PR

I will present some arguments and you decide which Yukari is.

In post 116 Yukari claims to not understand the setup. But more importantly, he also ASKS SCUM TO KILL HIM N1.

IF he really is a town PR, and is asking scum to kill him N1, THIS IS GOING AGAINST HIS WIN CONDITION. Then he claims town PR day 1 (after hinting an investigative roll many times). This is NOT PRODUCTIVE FOR TOWN AND NOT A TOWN MOVE.

I fucking hate appeal to Occam's Razor, but I'm doing it anyway because we can appeal to it 3 times and it makes sense every time. Let me ask you all what is most logical?

[] Yukari is town PR (vig as claimed)
[] Yukari is scum
[] Yukari is town non-PR

IN MY OPINION...Occam's Razor suggests Yukari is not intentionally playing against his win condition. If he were town Vig as claimed, he would be going against his win condition by asking to be NK'd and by claiming this role D1 without any pressure whatsoever. He is also not vanilla town, because duh.

Occam's Razor also suggests Yukari has played such a bland style of mafia over his prior town games, that this blatant change in style is too complex a move for him to be doing so on purpose. The simpler explanation is he's confused how to play scum.

Occam's Razor also does not suggest Yukari was asking about other roles, asking Elusive about why bring up vig, then claiming vig as a plan all along. Instead it suggests the simpler explanation that he really was confused, found out other roles like vig were possible, then claimed vig after learning people were picking up on his investigative hints. He claimed he'd sort Metal (and others) D2. Now he's claiming he won't need to sort them D2 but instead with a night kill? Doesn't make sense. He is flailing rolecop, not knowing how to play scum straight up, because he can't.


MOVING ON TO OTHER PLAYERS:

Ika - in my opinion Ika is town. Also, in my opinion the neighborhood is real. After Metal's claim, Metal talked about posting in the neighborhood thread, and ika as well. Ika then later responded in 943 about Metal spamming the thread. I believe Ika really was sick of it. This is not scum!Ika doing this, but town!Ika instead. This also leads me to believe his take on the situation on the neighborhood, that Metal is scum. There's also no way they are both town with their "you are bad as a player comments" to each other in 939 and 944.

Metal - scum. At first I wasn't sure, even though I trusted my partner's read on Metal. But after the whole flip, Ika points above, Yukari stuff, and the recent cover up for Yukari, I am convinced Metal is scum too. I actually don't want to give this idiot any more attention, but I'll expand more if I need to (meeting is also about to start up again). Metal. You aren't winning any idiotic awards as scum or as town in this game.

WNI - Not sure, because Ika thinks WNI might be PR in his take on the neighborhood in 936. But I believe WNI's hostility toward Mollie and myself that they are scum. Metal's instistence that the whole neighborhood is town too is also reason I have my WNI doubts.


@Plum - This is why I was focused on and/or Yukari, Metal.

Bookitty is town IMO, and I love playing with her.

Hydrangea, Bookitty, Ika - those three were all having doubts about both Metal and Yukari. Please continue those doubts.

Grib, ZZZZZZZXXXXX, have been hard for me to read. Singer's slot is still town.

I implore everyone to either vote Metal, Frogmollie (yes ourselves), or Yukari.

If Yukari really is town PR (he's not), he's getting NK'd anyway, so a lynch now doesn't matter. If we get lynched instead, you all can really put stock in our reads. Mollie isn't dumb, and I'm not an idiot either, even though I'm relatively new to this game.

Fuck meeting time starting again. I could have posted so much more in depth, and can later.

[Frogging Mollie]

It was obvious that there was a vig in the game, because

Pool 2:
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:
4) Mafia Bulletproof

There would be a confirmed vig in the game,

because mafia needed a bulletproof

.

Because mafia needed a bulletproof? BECAUSE MAFIA NEEDED A BULLETPROOF?

But mafia doesn't need a bulletproof. They could have a rolecop instead (from pools 1 or 4). You cherry pick pools 2 and 3 for what reason? There doesn't have to be a mafia bulletproof. at all.

[Frogging Mollie]

we are also the spirit tree in case any1 is interested.

[Frogging Mollie]

read the first page again god damn it.

I've read it 10 times

2 possibilities for the scum's randomised role: rolecop or bulletproof

Correct

my reading comprehension says that the roles that are not in the pools are fixed. aka independent of whatever randomisation goes on in the pools.

Where does it say this? I understand there's a fixed component, but I don't see any rule that says there HAS to be a bulletproof in the fixed component. If there is, point out that exact rule from one of the mod's posts and I will happily eat crow on that point.

so.

whatever the pools roll do not affect the pre-set roles.

Correct. But that doesn't mean bulletproof has to be a pre-set role.

so.

if the pools rolled a mafia bulletproof, does he become a mafia goon?

What?

i mean, its all and well if there was mafia rolecop. but whatever is rolled in the pools is independent of the preset roles?

Correct. But it does not mean a preset role is bulletproof.

am i wrong? this is a case of reading skills here. nothing up with alignment.

I might be a retard who can't read, I'll concede that. But I still can't see how it's guaranteed there is a bulletproof. Unless you know something I don't...........

[Frogging Mollie]

This game has a semi-open element to it. It works as follows:

a) One role from each pool will be randomly chosen. If there are multiples of a role, each pool will be rerolled.

So four roles will be randomly chosen.

b) Exactly three pools will roll a town role and exactly one will roll a mafia role.

This means there will be exactly one mafia role (from the pools). Either a bulletproof OR a rolecop.

c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

This does say the other fixed roles will be the roles from the pools.

Spoiler: the pools

Pool 1:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Pool 2:

1) 2-shot Doctor
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Voyeur
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:

1) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
2) 2-shot Doctor
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 4:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

I keep rereading the rules, and I don't see anywhere where it says there's guaranteed to be a bulletproof. It says one from each pool will be randomly chosen. So if the semi-open part randomly chooses a rolecop, why would there be a guaranteed bulletproof?

I could be the biggest idiot in the world because I'm new to theme games, so I apologize. But to me it seems there does not have to be a vig, as metal claimed there is.

There would be a confirmed vig in the game, because mafia needed a bulletproof.

Either way. Yukari is scum.

[Frogging Mollie]

Derp my bad. Because it's possible there is a bulletproof, there must be a vig.

Ok, got it.

[Frogging Mollie]

Now i feel dumb. Either way. Yukari is rolecop.

[Frogging Mollie]

I'm convinced Yukari is scum. The other option is the neighborhood really is all town, and the other scum slot/s is/are hiding among ZZZXXXX, Hydrangea, Bella, Boo (but I think boo is town).

[Frogging Mollie]

Now i feel dumb. Either way. Yukari is rolecop.

i am thoroughly not convinced.

maybe if mollie wasnt humpbanging me since page 2 for no apparent reason with an extreme inability to justify her points, i would still be on yukari right now

DUDE. WE ARE VANILLA TOWN. I SWEAR TO GOD.

[Frogging Mollie]

I'm convinced Yukari is scum. The other option is the neighborhood really is all town, and the other scum slot/s is/are hiding among ZZZXXXX, Hydrangea, Bella, Boo (but I think boo is town).

Possibly hiding in Grib, Elu, as well beacuse I don't have a good read on those slots.

Singer's slot is town. I believe Plum is town.

Could be a huge misunderstanding between Frogmollie and Metal.

Yukari is scum.

[Frogging Mollie]

@Ika.

Not deviating. Our vote remains on MS.

Just said IF MS/WNI not scum, then other option is it's hiding.

Still believe MS is scum more likely than not.

[Frogging Mollie]

I also find it interesting, out of all of 1072, the part Metal chooses to pick apart is the possibility of a vig. That's sort of an aside from the rest of the Yukari argument (and the rest of the case on metal himself).

Regardless of if a vig is possible or not, Yukari's claim makes no sense given the facts around him. He crumbed investigative by saying he'd sort people D2, then claims a town PR without being under any voting pressure whatsoever. A role that won't let him sort someone D2, but actually N1 instead (after he had been saying D2 all game). I don't believe Yukari is intentionally playing against his win condition by asking scum to night kill him while town PR.

Why didn't metal attack any other portion of my post instead? The part he attacked is minor and doesn't change my argument.

[Frogging Mollie]

L-2

[Frogging Mollie]

Why?

If you are going to vig the one that survives why does it matter which order it happens in?

Because:

Seriously, which seems like more of a D2 threat to scum? town-Mollie or scum-MS?

Because our vig is not foolproof.

fify

[Frogging Mollie]

Whatever..

Vote: MS

Someone please hammer so we can finish this day. Doubt we will get nked but sure would be nice, specially if our vig works. Coming for you 2nite mollie.

I don't care. I don't believe your claim. you said you cld sort metal on d2 THAT IS NOT A VIG CLAIM THAT IS A COP CLAIM AND HAIL MARY WE ARE NOT THE ONLY 1S WHO SPOTTED IT.

I mean really if you had a way to sort metal via vigging THEN WHY THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN TRYING TO SAVE HIS ASS?

[Frogging Mollie]

like point blank if shes scum, woe to me but she is aware enough of me that she will have to nk me before endgame.

right now i trust her enough

pedit: docs normaly can self protect.

and you play nebies? you should knwo docs cant do that shit

DOCS CAN'T SELF PROTECT ON THIS SITE

[Frogging Mollie]

Whatever..

Vote: MS

Someone please hammer so we can finish this day. Doubt we will get nked but sure would be nice, specially if our vig works. Coming for you 2nite mollie.

I don't care. I don't believe your claim. you said you cld sort metal on d2 THAT IS NOT A VIG CLAIM THAT IS A COP CLAIM AND HAIL MARY WE ARE NOT THE ONLY 1S WHO SPOTTED IT.

I mean really if you had a way to sort metal via vigging THEN WHY THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN TRYING TO SAVE HIS ASS?

Saying we can sort someone out D2 is not a cop or vig claim, it is a soft claim. And it is true we can sort him out with vig power. Also, we have not been trying to "save his ass". We have been scumreading MS since very early game and have no problem vigkilling him. So please stop trying to misrepresent us. Also, is the foul language really needed here?

it is absolutely necessary when it takes 47 pages to lynch obvscum.

if you have been consistently scumreading metal then why the unvote and hard push on us? it is pretty obvs we are not scummates together.

[Frogging Mollie]

Ika you said you were going to figure out Mollie day 2. Did you figure anything out? Or is that still future.

i have my thoguhts. but i want one thing first:

what you think of the nk?

when mollie gets on she will be deciding her fate to me. cus at this point ive reach bitter end with this game

plz tell me you stop being this dumb by the time I have fully caught up in the game.

[Frogging Mollie]

Hmm, we have to re-read as well, but todays lynch should be obvious. We tried to vig mollie but didn't work for some reason. Mollie is obvscum. Should have lynched her D1, seen her flip scum, then targetted boo. But it looked like mollie had too much support making d1 lynch on mollie near impossible which made us impatient.

Please do not let our d1 fears of mollie somehow worming her way out of death come true. Vote for mollie! Even if for some reason you don't believe our claim due to the lack of vig we predicted could happen, vote her anyways, and if she were to flip town then feel free to lynch us d3, we would even self vote to make it easy. But that won't happen because mollie is scum and we would bet our life on it. After she gets lynched and flips scum, we will be confirmed town and can go from there. Pls n ty.

Vote: Frogging Mollie

oh good grief you did not try to nk us otherwise we wld be dead unless either a) we were protected or b) you were blocked. it is obvs you are not the vig wi your whole, "Icasort metal d2!" cos vigging some1 is not sorting them. I pointed this out yesterday and you really cldn't explain it cos it can't be explained. you were rolefishing for the cop or vig that was pretty obvs from the POV of your posts.

anyhoo wni is not my nk I wld, I don't usually make fear kills I either special hunt or nk for love or lulz especially going into d2 with a bunch of suspicion on me.

I wld have probs have opted for elusive cos I cld troll the shit out of her and she wldn't be able to say a thing and it wld have pissed her and been incredibly funny. I know a lot of the players in this game don't me but here is an example of my personality:

last night we play a f2f upick where we cld pick our own flavour and be whatever we wanted. there were some good 1s like a pizza box or a banana or whatever but I picked kim kardashian's pap smear cos I was trying to tell I was trying to tell him that i cldn't text him cos I didn't have my phone so i was going to have to write it down and throw it at him but he was ignoring me so I announced that I have AIDS and reck was like, "why are you telling me this...in front of pple?" and brock was like "COS YOU WERE IGNORING HER" so I chose a pap smear cos reck is gay and hates vaginas and pics of vaginas and the thought of what comes out of vaginas which vag juice that cld end up on a pap smear. the role he designed for me was a town tracker:

invasive procedures: you can perform a super invasive papsmear on some1 at night and you will find out where they have been. I mean, you're up close and personal how cld you NOT!?

reck is so OCD he printed our roles out for us lol.

it was a great game for town cos singer scumread quadzypants, prozack got an early townread on me and made me the sole voter so only my voted counted cos he knows i am NOT retarded I spotted scumbro, lynched quadzypants d1 cos I townread singer and after he kept shaking his butt in front of my face (scumdance) made 3 or 4 pple promise to lynch bro, was nked n1 bro was lynched d2 and hammered by cdb

who is the worst traitor ever

and town. I am in a great mood cos last night was a lot of fun and froggy and I synched up so we are good. not even our mislynch can spoil my mood.

ika, give me a chance to fully catch up but also know that I am going to be busy with commune shit like right now we are trying to coordinate tonight and figure out sleeping arrangements for the out of towners. I have only been mislynched 3 times outside of newbies in like over 200 games but I am okay with it and so is froggy, we will just look for another game.

sooooo continuing catching up. also froggy will be out of town starting monday but we will be texting each other and he might have a chance to pop in I dunno. and like I said I will busy all week with commune stuff.

[Frogging Mollie]

its occam razor dragon:

presuming this is true: yukari vigs mollie
this means that mollie is 1-shot BP (and thats the scum role if you read opening)
or
yukari got rb

or yukari is lying like doesn't that seem like the more plausible scenario considering he is still alive? you can't invoke occam's razor w/o actually using occam's razor hth

[Frogging Mollie]

if anyone got fruit they should announce

prozack handed me a banana last night in a greater idea mafia game!

but I got nothing in this 1

[Frogging Mollie]

That MS wagon was complete garbage.

I may believe Yukari depending on [redacted]. Standby.

it was a good lynch cos at the very least we have info and I am okay with getting rid of noise on d1 and he was noise. I had doubts with the claim cos IT DID EXPLAIN IKA/WNI/METAL interactions that I was picking up on this is why if you are a neighbour the optimal is to out immediately so you don't screw over town with a bunch of false relational tells I believe that I have said this already.

which reminds, ika I think it is kinda shitty to say "no we are lynching metal" when I was having doubts about the lynch cos the explained a lot about what I was picking up and then hold me to some weird whatever paranoid shit you have going on in your head. what metal SHLD have done was stfu and stop baiting me cos I will scumread him every time for it and wni

SHLD HAVE NOT IGNORED MY REACH OUT.

[Frogging Mollie]

Are people typically notified if they're blocked? Would they get a message like 'your action failed' or 'you were blocked!'?

pple do not get blocked messages on this site.

[Frogging Mollie]

And by worship, we don't mean ppl think she is a divine creator diety, more like:
Verb
to love or honor (someone or something) very much or too much
to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion <a celebrity worshipped by her fans>

this is highly disrespectful to me and to the other players.

what you seem to not understand is that I understand where you have been cos I have been there but you have not been where I have cos you don't have the experience. this does not make me "superior" like you and elusive keep triying to insinuate that is what am doing but it DOES give me the potential more skills than you have simply cos I have had more time to develope them as a few other players in this game have. if you are town STOP THIS RIGHT NOW. it makes you come across as insecure and is more likely to push you into the conf bias zone.

I have my doubts about your claim, and have pointed this out which you can't seem to adequately address. or we cld always talk about your shitty hammer it is kind of weird how no1 has brought that up yet. when you voted it seemed like you were not convinced that metal was scum but voted him anyways despite you having another way to "sort him" that I can't figure out how it wld "sort him" based on you being vig where he was somehow left alive. <------ this is why I thought you were softclaiming cop and I am not the only 1 who picked up on the investigative nature of your softclaim.

[Frogging Mollie]

grib, why did you kill pie?

pedit: i was talking to WNI in our neghborhood or were you not reading?

also dont even start with that molliewoship shit. thats not how it is and the fact you even insiuate that its somethign like that is insuting to the max to me

"Mollie can do no wrong, i refuse to lynch mollie d1 regardless of alignment." We keep getting that vibe over n over.. call it what you want Idk.

Its something called freindship. Also when mollie and i are both twon and we can sync up we destroy.

You dont seem to understand the relations we share. And truthfull i never expect you to either. I just want to to understand its not worshiping.

I have already made it clear day 1 that if MS flips town, i would not stop the mollie lynch on day 2. im jsut sick of your misreping it as worship.

pedit: i woudl rename if freindship and you ahev it right. i do have high respect for her but i would not put it as worship.

Sure friendship. We can see that being the case, and maybe you do work well together as all town, we wouldn't know firsthand and rarely dig through any meta. Just seems like that may be getting in the way of seeing mollie as scum when she is scum. Unless she ducks up bad you would likely believe her over someone you've never played with before. We get that.. But we are the vig, we shot at her, and she survived. Most of her D1 play was nothing but pushing for ms and yukari without real weight to the cases. Trying to seem like she is doing more than she is. Then with the wni and ms flips, iso's including the mod iso for votecount reading, scum mollie syncs up well with the scum reads we listed. We can't articulate everything atm that has gone thru our minds to get to our scum read on mollie so will call it strong gut feeling / instinct combined with everything else screams mollie scum at us.
Even if you have some doubt due to friendship bias, can everyone pls just agree mollie gets lynched today and if we are somehow wrong then we die D3?

if you are town then you are lining up 3 mislynches.

^ this is why I think your thinking is so fucked up.

personally I am going to look at who is on staying on the edges cos I am pretty sure there will be scum there. scum love 1v1s but scum are often uncertain on how to handle them during the aftermath so tend to hold back a bit to see where town herd mentality will go.

if you want to do something constructive how about you state the reasons WHY you think we are scum, make them short, concise and a bullet list wld be fantastic.

why do I feel like I am in rome.

[Frogging Mollie]

I am sorry I haven't checked in earlier; I've been pretty busy.

I'm going to go on record as saying I <3 Mollie a lot and I have respect for her scumhunting abilities. Dismissing that as "worship", especially when you've said you don't bother with meta much, looks like shallow discrediting to me, Yukari. I don't like it. I'm also not a fan of the lining up lynches thing you have going on right now.

I had really thought that MS would flip scum. The fact that Mollie hasn't weighed in yet is bothering me a lot.

VOTE: Frogging Mollie

@Ika: What do you think Mollie could say at this point? Either she's town who staked everything on a bad read on MS or she's scum. I don't know which, but I will say that this game has tied together people's alignments (MS-Mollie, Yukari-Mollie, even me and you and Mollie) more than any game I've seen lately. I don't know what Mollie could say, which is maybe why she hasn't said anything.

the day was open less than 24 hours and you are going here?

you are breaking my heart boo

cos we have a LOT to say, we spent a good hour? before playing true american which has to do with standing on cardboard boxes while having something that vaguely resembles turrets syndrome by shouting "jfk! fdr!" and then we drink. plz don't ask the details cos I am not even sure I understand them.

[Frogging Mollie]

@Yukari: I believe you're exaggerating the degree to which people like and respect Mollie in the context of the game. I don't buy that you're using charged words accidentally; I think you're trying to discredit by overstating the case.

thorella face

cos if he is "discrediting by overstating the case" then this sort of implies you know we will flip town yeah? when you are voting us?

cog/dis spotted

yukari/boo not scum together.

[Frogging Mollie]

I mean MS did a replace out gambit and then took it back,

so did Mollie

. Why fake replace outs? Either replace out or you're as guilty as MS and deserve a speed lynch.

Also, MS sorry for being a bit harsh although you have a good friend in pie and I like her and hope to play with again.

Bookitty's vote on Froggy slot is bizarre. If that slot had even a remote possibility of being town then her vote doesn't make sense. From the hard on of yesterday to today is a 360 that leaves a bad taste.

I said I was thinking about replacing out but it was up to froggy.

metal bolded, backed out and implied there some sort of intervention.

^ these are 2 different animals.

cos while you are running around saying that I am somehow ruining the game? (which I find incredibly funny given your aTe in drawn on arrival and you wonder why no1 takes you srsly) you will probs actually be the 1 to cos town to lose.

I wanted a 9/10 town game win ratio cos I am sick to death of pple running around saying that scum win more games when that doesn't haven't to be the case. but I can be good with 8/10 that is still pretty high.

what town lacked on d1 was town cohesion plain and simple which is something I try to push for but the glue cld not be found. I am still townreading ika, yukari might be morphing into a town read but I am unsure cos vig tells/sk tells ugh. he doesn't seem like grpscum.

we need more sorting to do, not sure if we will be given time.

[Frogging Mollie]

The fact that Mollie hasn't weighed in yet is bothering me a lot.

Are you kidding me? Mollie and I were at my brother (Glork's) house playing RL mafia and True American and other funstuffs. Are we not allowed to have a real life?

[Frogging Mollie]

I am in a great mood cos last night was a lot of fun and froggy and I synched up so we are good. not even our mislynch can spoil my mood.

<3

[Frogging Mollie]

its occam razor dragon:

presuming this is true: yukari vigs mollie
this means that mollie is 1-shot BP (and thats the scum role if you read opening)
or
yukari got rb

We already claimed VT. We weren't lying.

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie talk to me plz.i need someone to calm me down before i head to work

calm down!

elusive confuses confidence with arrogance. I think she simply can't differentiate between the 2.

eta: don't shout at me, I went to get ciggies.
eta2: froggy!

[Frogging Mollie]

Sorry, ika but in the vicinity of the game you outed town roles including mine and did the most anti-town things you could. Why the fuck should I care what you think?

After Mollie spent an entire day revolving around MS and getting him mislynched, you're back on the Mollie train. Sorry, that's now how I work. I may think really highly of Titus and in the Witch hunt game followed her scum train for a short time but when she stopped making sense I got off and started thinking for myself.

What have I done here that is the same? In both cases where I had issues, I tunneled scum and they had a fucking breakdowns with being called scum fucks and being treated with suspicion. SO no, it's not the same and I don't appreciate you're attempt to make it seem so.

I am not breaking down.

so either you are incredibly delusional or have your own hubris to deal with which I think comes from insecurity that probs has roots in IRL. its okay. it means you are a human being on the other side of the screen cos 90% of the players have been there just due to demographics. this is not a bad thing. it just is.

NOW you can accuse me of being mean. I didn't play your sql game and you got mad. is this how you deal when pple don't do what you want them to?

[Frogging Mollie]

I am in a great mood cos last night was a lot of fun and froggy and I synched up so we are good. not even our mislynch can spoil my mood.

<3

can i hear your thoughts then now they your synced up?

In a little while. I'm hungover AF and watching NASCAR so yeah. Later.

[Frogging Mollie]

1)calm down!

2)elusive confuses confidence with arrogance. I think she simply can't differentiate between the 2.

3) eta: don't shout at me, I went to get ciggies.

1)then just talk to me.

2) i wouldnt be surprised by that thruthfully

3) that made me chuckle honeslty, but right now i just need someone that i know to talk to to calm em down

I still think you are town but you are going to have to reach out to elusive more than you are to draw her in and move scum out. I grib seems to have a good grip.

we felt last night that we were sparks of town!boo but eh. I am unsure of my reads right now except for you grib and elusive. I wanna throw plum in there but if there is worship going it is coming from me directed to plum I mean said I wld light candles at her feet ffs.

yukari is throwing me off big time, too many newb tells.

[Frogging Mollie]

Mollie,

What are you on right now? That wasn't even about you? Mind your own business.

Like I don't even get half of what you say and nor do I care?

Like why are you going out of game constantly with me and to a lesser extent Yukari? Why do you think you're here to psych our RL when that's none of your concern and nor in a million years could you adequately know anything about anyone from playing a mafia game with them?

I don't care about the RQS, you aren't the first or last player to not answer questions. I do notice a pattern with you in games where you take swipes at players for being new\not knowing how to play\how tired you are of players who don't know how to mafia\ and considering what I've seen of your abilities, that seems unnecessary hubristic.

The fact that you aren't giving game related info is more telling.

Within the confines of the game, you're annoying because players with a hard on with you won't lynch you even if you are scum so quit the attempts to

project your own issues on to others

and play the game.

elusive do you really ask these questions with the intent to hear my response?

cos I can give them in order to draw you in cos I THINK YOU ARE TOWN.

I played a game with my mentor and we got into a fight that makes this look like kiddie pool splashing. I don't recommend it. we cancelled our IRL meetup cos the wounds went to deep. but I did what he taught me to. keep your eye on the ball. set aside the personalities and keep focus on the endgame where we win. I was a doc protect by an inventor and he was a do and we protected each other despite us wanting to rip each other's throats out.

post game he said, "you did well" and I said "I learned from the best". you have to learn to cut through the chaff and I am an optimist I think you will get it at some point the second you stop being something that you are not. cos I think you are an emotional player, not beep boop and your posts indicate that. I also think how genuine you come across is your gift.

focus on the ball and work with your team even if you want to throw them in a dark dungeon and do a bunch of tortuous stuff (I feel this way quite frequently).

eye on the ball.

[Frogging Mollie]

HERE FOR A MINUTE UNTIL I GET PICKED UP!

yaye tere!!!

its game of thrones night and I won't have my phone w/me

also, I forgot to do this before:

@ ank - we will be v/la at least until the end of the week. I shld be able to post once a day. changing our status to reflect this.

[Frogging Mollie]

To tired answering things later...

VOTE: zzthing

this vote greatly pains me.

lynching us won't be the worst the thing that ever happened we will be down 3 town going into night tho. I really need help with yukari cos we were going to go after them but eh, cos I can't tell.

I feel like grib, tere and ika are a solid unit and hope I am not being naive about this?

I don't think I am. I want boo in there after the discussion I had with froggy last night cos he brought up some good points it had to do with the intricacy of how boo is reading things and just cos she seems like lost town.

[Frogging Mollie]

Yukari, so who did you sort on D2 as you said you would? Oh wait...this is exactly why you don't claim a PR on D1 with no pressure. Either you're a not so nice word (possible) or you're lying. What was the point in claiming vig with absolutely ZERO D1 pressure on you just so you could get roleblocked?

Answer: BECAUSE YOUR NOT VIG. You weren't roleblocked. You are scum.

Or you really are the VI.

We're still officially V/LA. I know Mollie is busy and I'm on work travel through Thursday, but I should be able to check in from time to time in the evenings (except tomorrow evening).

[Frogging Mollie]

I'll review the D2 happenings this evening. I should have some time in the hotel room to do so.

[Frogging Mollie]

@Mollie Could you please answer the true or false question?

I am assuming you mean this 1?

@Mollie, true or false? If we vig someone, and they die, their alignment is revealed.

yes

look yukari. I am going to try to level with you. I get why you are frustrated, trust me, when I first started playing on this site I cld get nowhere whenever I went after thorella which I did on a frequent basis. omg I used to get so pissed. then I finally started listening to majiffy just so i cld get some peace in games and started leaving thorella alone give scum the chance to deal with him first cos they will. and by doing this it gave me the opportunity to learn from him with some of the things that I had been with in games. so I get where you are coming from its just that i really want to win this game and I am trying to work things out.

you pull at the heart strings but froggy is right, you said that cld sort metal d2 and that just does not support a vig claim. I am asking to step back so that in case we do get lynched you are not sitting in a corner by yourself rocking back forth cos you think you are terribad at mafia during the n2 phase. step back just for a bit and look at the game from the position that we are town and tell me what you see. just try it as a thought experiment.

I generally go by town role >>> town motivation >>> town posts. look at our posts and ask yourself the questions of: what motivation do we have in our posts? what is our endgame plan here? the reason why I am stepping back from the idea of scum!you is that if you were scum a 1 for 1 trade for strong town vs. you being autolynched with our flip is cos that is a high risk/moderate reward cos I believe there are other strong town in this game. and as metal pointed out I am thinking that scum don't have daychat

so you wldn't know if we were strong town or not unless you thought we had significant sway over the game

which you seem to think so but you are doing it more from a position of "why is this person not lynchable when other pple are" and the emotion behind it just reads as very genuine and I guess I wld like to believe that you wldn't be this butthurt about it if you were scum cos you cld always just nk us.

we are trying to step back for a minute and I am asking you to do the same.

this is where I am at now:

grib - is a strong townread cos it seems he is trying to work things out and he was wondering about zzthing right around the same time I was. town moves in herds and i tend to gravitate towards to players who are thinking what I am thinking at the same time.

boo - I feel like her defense and waffling on metal seems to come from town cos it is pretty detailed and it shows she was trying to work him out. I know other pple might not like it but I like her waffling, how she goes about it seems to come more from a "trying to work things out but not wanting to be wrong about it" perspective which to me points more to town. I have a soft spot for boo, she is 1 of my favourite players and I feel like our dynamic is more femal positive rather than female competitive. if she is scum she is doing some of the best waffling that I have seen done cos it comes across as very transparent and genuine. ugh.

ika - I am having paranoid thoughts about ika cos he simply isn't here when he shld be, especially since tere has replaced in. froggy has him as strong town and I was but I am not feeling the presence of him in this game or him trying to help me build some type of town cohesion in case we get lynched. like d2 is when I feel like we need to coalesce a bit and I am wondering where the hell is he. I liked his freakout moment at the opening of the day, I had planned on reaching out to pie hardcore to see if there was any chemistry there and if we cld somehow get past the blocks we seem to have with communicating. the other thing about ika that froggy pointed out is that he wld be moving himself front center by nking the other neighbour which wld not be a good optimal move unless wni was showing signs of suspicion in the hood which we have no access to. I am going to ride his ass until he gets back into the game tho but I am not exactly the most patient of pple but I will try to be patient with ika. I feel like we shld be working together more strongly and we aren't. I feel like he is leaving me hanging.

yukari - /kills self. I don't know what to do with him, he looks like pure newb who got screwed. froggy still thinks he is scum and I get why, but the breakdown just looks really genuine. I am a sucker for aTe when I am not being baited which is why I was struggling with metal towards the end of d1 but wound up voting him anyways.

plum - I really need to hear from plum right now or I am going to knock over the candles and set her on fire which will make me incredibly sad if she is town! if she is town I feel like we at least have a decent chance at winning. if she is scum then oh shit there goes my win rate.

hydraflower - I am struggling with this read too, but she sort of reminds me of honeybee in drawn on arrival?

boo what do you think?

tere - if elusive was scum then holy shit. that is some third level bs and I am just not willing to go there at this time.

zzthing - I think is abandoning me to die which is the best case that I have ever come up with in my mafia career.

bella - I dunno, andy's replace out is weird.

dragon - same but I dunno, singer might have found herself in a compromised position? so eh.

those are mostly my thoughts with a huge chunk of input from froggy. I will look at vca later but I am not that good at it but I will try.

[Frogging Mollie]

Yukari, so who did you sort on D2 as you said you would? Oh wait...this is exactly why you don't claim a PR on D1 with no pressure. Either you're a not so nice word (possible) or you're lying. What was the point in claiming vig with absolutely ZERO D1 pressure on you just so you could get roleblocked?

Answer: BECAUSE YOUR NOT VIG. You weren't roleblocked. You are scum.

Or you really are the VI.

We're still officially V/LA. I know Mollie is busy and I'm on work travel through Thursday, but I should be able to check in from time to time in the evenings (except tomorrow evening).

If ppl had just done what we wanted youd be d1 lynched, flipped scum, ms would still be here cuz we didn't think u were scum together, and so we would have avoided misslynch and had another shot to vig scum. Your op skillz you were bragging on must be havin some serious malfunction if you were actually town mollie because we are the vig and ms was town neighbor. You are either wrong or blantantly telling lies.

Quit dodging our question pls.

@Mollie, true or false? If we vig someone, and they die, their alignment is revealed.

if we wld have been lynched you still wld lynched town. take a step back yukari. I am also not dodging your question I am just wondering where the heck it is coming from since the game wasn't advertised as bastard so your question is a weird wifom "OMG IS THERE A JANITOR IN THIS GAME" POV which is just...weird.

I am not able to track your thought processes at all.

okay so now you can answer my question and hopefully I will some sort of response which will give us clarity!

[Frogging Mollie]

@ ika - what do you think of yukari's claim and how he has gone about it and the weird ass angles he keeps taking with it? the thing that makes me lean on newbtown is cos I am not sure I have seen scum throw a full out hissy fit cos their chosen lynch target wasn't getting lynched and be this dramatic about it. what is throwing me off is the self-reference to the plural form of themselves which points to a personality poster and why wld they throw that as scum. they are making zero sense to me for either alignment tbh.

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie, are you scum?

and if not i want to know why you are not. if you want to work with me now you have to realize im going to hard press you to your fullest as well

I am not scum and if you bothered to look at my posts I wld like to think you wld figure this out.

I am asking you about what you think about yukari's softclaim that led up to a hardclaim. what do you think of that?

grib is a higher town read than tere for me. 1 of the things that is freaking me out is how it seems you are avoiding zzthing which makes wonder cos I know you guys had a fantastic rapport in nightless and I am not seeing that this game or any attempt for you to work him out when I feel like town!you wld/shld be doing at this time.

so i am asking about zzthing too!

[Frogging Mollie]

mollie, are you scum?

and if not i want to know why you are not. if you want to work with me now you have to realize im going to hard press you to your fullest as well

I think this is an obvs set up which is what (you pointed this which makes us lean town on you!) I am struggling with and why I am okay with our lynch. I am not doing a repeat of you cld be any1.

if you were going to hard press me, where did you go? and why are you asking me this question?

I am not getting the angle of where you are going with this when I have already commented on my thoughts on the pie nk choice? was there something specific that you did not understand?

cld you plz answer as to why you are staying away from zzthing?

[Frogging Mollie]

I'm here, I'm here. I feel like I don't have the tools to use what information we have effectively. I feel like someone should know what the deal is with Frogmollie, like seriously, but it's not me and no one seems to have a slam dunk there (except . . . Yukari? Do you? Do you

really

?), which is frustrating. That said, I agree 100% with Grib that it's either that Yukari got Roleblocked or that he's scum. I'm tempted to just go along with what he's doing in response to that. Which would mean lynching Frogmollie.

It's the opposite of what you said, Yukari - Hydrangea defending Frogmollie increases odds of Hydrangea-scum if Frogmollie is Town, not if they're scum.

see, I don't think scum!hydraflower is a particular wonderful premise to operate from when we flip town. cld you unpack your reasons for me as to why this might be the case?

Mollie, why did you launch into speculah re who you'd have NK'd if you were scum? It's pointless WIFOM - like serious real WIFOM okay I'm using the buzzword for something meaningful here - so why?

cos I entered this thread with a couple of votes on us from pple who thought that I or my team wld make this particular nk choice? nka honestly reads like 2 birds with 1 stone in that once we flip town and if ika goes derp on us there is neighbourhood wifom to follow up with (OMG THERE IS SCUM IN THAT HOOD!) if yukari flips town? the only thing that makes sense to me at this point is if yukari is actually town and having a *moment* or if he as scum tried to do a 1v1 on d1 while interfering with another town up for the lynch? it makes no sense coming from scum. it is a diminished returns play. and he is dropping newb tells hard. the only way scum!him makes sense is if he is part of the grp either traitor or sk. but god, how he is playing doesn't fit that but newb/low info which is why he keeps landing in the unsure pile.

Correct.

And just because a couple of people have mentioned this, Andrius mentioned to me before the game even filled, in response to me saying something about my prior hiatus, that he didn't know how long he himself would be on the site, so I wasn't surprised when he replaced out. Could it have been influenced by his alignment? Possibly, probably had more to do with stuff unrelated to that, so &c.

okay, this fits with what I have experienced with andy.

One thing that strikes me looking back is the Day 1 Bookitty wagon. As it forms, even at four players {Grib, elusive, Metal Sonic, White Night Imagination} I don't think the unflipped there are scum and the flipped are both Town. This was when Bookitty was away V/LA. Still. So I was looking at the Bookitty wagon. Don't really trust Bellaphant via that. Started typing out what was wrong with her trajectory re Bookitty, but now I'm not sure at all. It's weird. Whatever. Basically the whole Bookitty wagon looks like it was Town-driven and either entirely or almost entirely (?) Town. Doesn't make Bookitty scum. But in light of the MS flip and the nature of competing wagons, it means

something

. Although to refocus on Bellaphant, her unvote and revote on MS seems a little bit sketchy to me. We never see what she processes of the info, which is why she unvotes in the first place . . . eh.

this is weird cos you have given andy a pass but are looking at bella? also cld you plz elaborate on what that "something" means?

Based on Grib's view of how Yukari/Frogmollie Night stuff played out, at this point I think a Frogmollie lynch would be fine pending any exciting new revelations from Yukari's slot. Bookitty also looks like a good choice just based on wagons from Day 1, but I'll reread her regardless. The other under-the-radar players in due time.

I think boo is a terrible lynch at the mo unless you want to argue with me about the nature of her waffling.

and I really don't understand why you do not want to sort the under the radar players right now when there are actual town willing to play the game and not go into /apathetic mode.

pressure and questions to the lurkers are a beautiful thing. it gets them back into the game which is what i want.

I keep bringing up zzthing and somehow I can't seem to get any1 who shld be looking at him to talk about him.

[Frogging Mollie]

Oh, and my reads according to the MS wagon: strong town, townlean, null leaning scum x2, townlean, null leaning scum, null!Vig.

So. Say, three scum: two on, one off. Not accounting for any Third Parties.

grib

in this order of analysis do you realize you have us as null leaning scum? when in 1346 you had us as town?

cld you walk me through your vca?

[Frogging Mollie]

.
Frogging Mollie << DIdnt like early attacks on sonic. I foudn it as if trying to get rid of future dangers (since sonic reads mollie decently i believe)

nope.

read me as town in a game where I was scum in where I cozied up to him I mean he pointed this out in this very game. it was also pointed out that we were in a game together where he was sooper shitty to my hydra partner who had just turned 15 and was new to the site. we were the doc.

so where the fuck exactly did you get this? cos it is defo something that you have pulled out of your ass.

[Frogging Mollie]

okay so tere

the reason you don't like the zzthing lynch is the speed of the wagon?

for some1 who has said that they wanna talk to me you sure as hell are not doing it!

also wld you mind explaining what you mean by you are wondering about cos of a hangover for elusive? cos elusive was voting me cos she did not like me

NOT

cos she was scumreading me and she said this so wld you mind walking me through this?

[Frogging Mollie]

I keep bringing up zzthing and somehow I can't seem to get any1 who shld be looking at him to talk about him.

like holy cow

[Frogging Mollie]

also ika is posting elsewhere on site! fancy that.

[Frogging Mollie]

cho

really

[Frogging Mollie]

I used to love playing mafia.

ika, I don't understand your rage I think it is highly disproportionate to anything directed to you. like there is no real valid reason to be raging at this point. yes I wanted to poke you cos there are dangling questions that have been left from previous posts and I have posted other questions since then. but if you need time then take it, but stop with your threats of raging when I don't see a reasonable to be raging at this point. I am a hair's breath away from quitting mafia altogether for a while simply because I am tired of the bs.

I was going to reach out to pie cos we have never made that connection and I have been town reading you so i do not feel like I shld have to work to establish a rapport with you it just naturally flows. I don't have that dynamic with pie but I was wanting to after I rethought about things and realized that I was picking up on hood tells not associative tells.

I am asking you as a friend to never put me in the position of having to take sides with my other friends. thanks.

so in other words get a grip.

in other news cho has not done 1 thing to town up that yukari slot.

in other news zzthing is not doing anything...at all. but since he has not posted we shld just ignore him by all means.

but in the meantime I feel like we shld just go over the many reasons as to why we shld be lynched. the irony of the situ greatly amuses me.

reasons to lynch us:

1. mollie did not catch scum on d1 so she must be scum.
2. mollie is scum cos she went after lynchbait metal!
3. mollie is scum cos supposedly in a world that does not exist metal can read mollie correctly.
3. in this same world mollie is scum cos she fears wni and that is why she nked them cos she thought she cld sneak past such clever clever town with her fantastic ruse of nking some1 who was suspicious of her.
4. mollie is never wrong so if she is wrong she must be scum.
5. mollie is scum for being mean.
6. mollie is scum for not being mean and reaching out to other players.
7. mollie is scum for bringing up oog stuff cos that isn't what metal did at all. nope. not at all.
8. mollie is scum thinking that elusive wld have picked up on the plato's the cave reference which is somehow an oog reference despite the analogy being quite apt.
9. mollie is scum cos she scumreads you and is trying to get you lynched.
10. mollie is scum cos she townreads you and obvsly she is trying to buddy you.
11. mollie is scum cos she has reads.
12. mollie is scum cos her reads aren't good enough.
13. mollie is scum cos metal and wni said so and they are much cleverer than her.
14. mollie is scum cos she is much cleverer than metal and wni and she knows how to manipulate town in order to get rid of the pple she seekritly fears.
15. mollie is scum cos cos she is still alive on d2.
16. mollie is scum cos ika is still alive on d2.
17. mollie is scum cos elusive wanted her dead cos elusive felt insulted.
18. mollie is scum cos mollie did not indulge in elusive's sql.
19. mollie is scum cos she said that she was not being passive aggressive but aggressively saying that she refused to do the sql.
20. mollie is scum cos none of her scumbuddies have been lynched yet.
21. mollie is scum cos its mollie and so therefore must be scum.
22. mollie is scum cos she is covering for her hydra partner and she is obvsly the better scum player.
23. mollie is scum cos she is not covering for her hydra partner enough.
24. mollie is scum cos she hates playing scum.
25. mollie is scum cos she loves playing scum and is just trying to troll you.
26. mollie is scum cos she didn't die.
27. mollie is scum cos why is she still alive.
28. mollie is scum cos she said she wasn't scum so it must mean she is trying to outsmart you.
29. mollie is scum cos of aTe.
30. mollie is scum cos she with her clever wiles got metal to post oog content and jumped on it when it cld not have been accurate at the time.

I think there are at least 20 more that have been tossed around. I mean i cannot wait for what will come if we actually manage to lynch scum instead of us.

[Frogging Mollie]

I am anti any fucking flashwagon right now. We've come out of a town v town shit fest. The game needs breathing space and time for everyone to contribute. I don't want to stop the flow of conversation.

You are weirding me out a little because I feel you should be town reading me strongly and you didn't seem to be?

However although this gives me emotional conniptions I reckon it shows you are def town and you are just being paranoid because scum you would have cuddled up to me and stroked my hair and whispered sweet nothings in my ear right now.

I need to deal with [redacted] today but will try and hang out so we can synch later on my evening, OK?

Also stop freaking out about ika k thanks <3

I liked Frogger's drunkposting too

p-edit I see you, how long you got?

yes, I can see how you might be confused by the many times I have called your slot town.

I don't particularly give a flying fuck is town or not at this point him threatening my hydra partner is fucking not okay with me. ika's little temper tantrum only managed to piss me off and guarantee that unless it is invitational I will not be playing mafia for quite some time.

the whining about lynching town on d1 is not okay with me cos sometimes it happens yet pple are treating it as if 3 eyed fish are somehow more common. oh yeah it is somehow entirely my fault.

sorry tere but I DID TRY TO REACH OUT TO YOU OUT OF SHEER DESPERATION TO HAVE A MEANINGFUL EXCHANGE WITH AN ADULT .

what metal did was shitty but somehow in other pple's minds it isn't so by all means lets blame mollie for it and decide that she is the shitty 1 even tho he was not telling the truth about what really happened, a cple of pple have pointed out that he was not telling the truth but hey LETS FUCKING BLAME MOLLIE.

[Frogging Mollie]

*if ika is town or not

I wasn't finished but it submitted anyways so whatevs.

I probably shld stop posting anyways cos I woke up in a great mood after getting some quality sleep but ika's post has simply set me off cos there is zero reason for him to be running around raging when no1 has said anything bad about him or to him.

[Frogging Mollie]

Ika 10-4. I'm know you have respect for Mollie. Because she's awesome. I enjoy playing this game with you too, Ika, and hope to in the future as well. I'll let you be for a while. Just when you asked us if we're scum, I was like WTF? Of course not, that's all

[Frogging Mollie]

I also reached out to you, you know. Timezones aren't always that great for this kind of stuff.

ika is as ika does.

Take the breather if you need to - you can always send in the Frogger, he seems cool and his drunkpost was very funny.

okay I see it now ty for the hug <3

do you think you can iso zzthing? cos that shld have been the first thing that you shld have done IMO before you decided to dismantle the wagon. I don't think anybody was going to quick hammer 2 lynches in a row but I wanted to apply pressure onto zzthing to get him to DO something. which he DID manage to cough up a readslist but it was sooper dismal combined with his iso. I thought after the nightless game he wld have gained some confidence and start really investing in games but I guess not.

I can see why you want to go after plum. my reticence stems largely cos both she and boo come from the ballroom dancing mafia time period and will stick out like sore thumbs with a backdrop of primarily conversational mafia players. so I have been trying to engage her in way that will help me sort her out. she was pretty strong town on d1 I felt like but eh, today I get the feeling she is holding back and waiting for where town herd will go. my personal struggle is cos I find myself liking her especially how she lays out her thought processes. so i find myself wanting to keep her around cos she is lovely to talk to.

can you also iso yukari, I looked up cho's threads that he has posted in cos I wanted to see where the familiarity was coming from and I think I have an idea. I was starting to lean town on yukari just cos I wld be surprised if scum was THIS butthurt over not getting their lynch choice lynched I mean holy cow but I don't like cho's "yeah I can see mollie's last 4 posts coming from scum! VOTE FROGMOLL" but eh, I can see town motivation in seeing who wld latch on if I squint my eyes real hard so I am defo split on that slot. froggy will be chanting to his death that he thinks yukari slot is scum. yukari saying that he cld sort out metal by vigging him makes zero sense I mean just lynch him already but he seemed to have an agenda as far as the priorities of the lynch order. I have only seen this kind of bs come from lynchers but I will hunt ank down IRL and murder him if he put a hood and a lyncher in a game w/o adequate town fire power so I am not going there.

cld you plz talk to grib? my fear is that and I might somehow some way wind up further in the game with him having inherited elusive's chip on her shoulder and that it will effect a town win. what irks me is that elusive has a history of doing this exact behaviour with other players on her homesite that he doesn't seem to be taking into consideration and I feel like it isn't very fair.

if either (or both which I don't want to even consider) boo or plum are scum it will depress me greatly cos those are the 2 that I like most in the game up to this point.

I feel better after updating the spreadsheet we had started, it is a touching stone for me to look at and figure things out. I was waiting to see if we made it through the night.

and I feel better after talking to you.

@ boo thanks for your input on hydraflower. I am not getting bad feels from her either but was wondering if I was being blindsighted.

[Frogging Mollie]

?

Talk to me about what? I'm not trying to come after you for your Day 1 thing, if that's what you're worried about.

I am not worried about you coming after unless it is near endgame and we are being pretty dismal with lynches I am more concerned that there is no cohesion between us at all.

I just skimmed wni's iso cos I cld have sworn that pie said that he did not post in it during pregame but mebbe I made that up I did see however that wni was hardcore pushing boo so that looks like a likely reason that he might have been nked. he was also softly going after andy/bella slot.

I dunno. I don't do fear kills so don't really understand the mentality behind them but I know that a lot of pple do it on this site it is just depressing to think about boo being scum. we shld always be town together.

[Frogging Mollie]

Well, you could try talking to me, instead of asking Tere to talk to me for you?

I don't have any particular attachment to anyone in this game, except ika I guess, but he's town so yay for me.

I wish dragon and Cho would do something interesting.

Bookitty's last couple of posts have been pretty fluffy.

okay, lets try to have a conversation.

I think ika is town too cos of his outburst. plus i don't think wni wld be his nk choice cos of the exposure it wld bring him as being the only survivor of the hood.

the last 2 sentences go back to what I was saying before, in that scum are more likely to sit back and watch where town goes on d2 after a hard 1v1 on d1 when it is between town. I don't think all wld do this but I defo think that it is possible that 2 wld.

do you see my dilemma with yukari/cho?

sorry

[Frogging Mollie]

Well, you could try talking to me, instead of asking Tere to talk to me for you?

I don't have any particular attachment to anyone in this game, except ika I guess, but he's town so yay for me.

I wish dragon and Cho would do something interesting.

Bookitty's last couple of posts have been pretty fluffy.

okay, lets try to have a conversation.

I think ika is town too cos of his outburst. plus i don't think wni wld be his nk choice cos of the exposure it wld bring him as being the only survivor of the hood.

the last 2 sentences go back to what I was saying before, in that scum are more likely to sit back and watch where town goes on d2 after a hard 1v1 on d1 when it is between town. I don't think all wld do this but I defo think that it is possible that 2 wld.

do you see my dilemma with yukari/cho?

Are you saying you think the scum are setting up a 1v1 with you and yukari/cho? Or that they are just going to sit back and watch the town do it?

What do you think of the vig claim? Is there anything about the slot that makes you think town?

grib you are killing me with the last 2 questions cos I have said what I thought of the vig claim and I have said that the 1 thing that gives me pause is how much they whined about us not getting lynched and something about mollie worshippers.

s far as the first question, it is only possible if they set up a block but why block a nk on town just to get 1 lynch out of it when they cld have gotten 2 town nks in and a mislynch today? it doesn't make sense to me. and smart scum usually lets town do the lynching with subtle pushes on town so yeah that was my thinking but now that I am putting more thought into it the vig claim just seems more and more unlikely especially with how it was done i.e. the sorting of metal then insisting that we get lynched before metal. if scum don't have day talk it really looks like a newbscum mistake (the claim).

[Frogging Mollie]

oh wait that dragonspawn I responded to. derp.

[Frogging Mollie]

why do we keep presuming rber?

I am not presuming rb but I know we are town and vt as they come so either yukari/cho is lying or there has to be 1.

do you know whats funny, I thought yukari was a marquis alt at first then I thought no way is marquis this derpy and as far as I know we don't have any problems but I keep getting surprised i.e. elusive. didn't see that 1 coming.

anyways out for the night.

eta: is no1 reading my posts grib is a townread holy fuck

[Frogging Mollie]

I just typed out a very big response to this post but it got lost and it is pissing me off cos this is not the first time that this has happened in this game.

ive been readin your post mollie, i just find it annyoing that you are kinda going (and understand MPOV right now), why is it my fault for MS lynch stuff and acting like nobody is talking to you.

you have to understand the burden and what I am preceving to undertand my frustration atm and right now i dont think you 100% understand or realize it yet.

take an iso of yourself and tell em what you see in reagrds to the MS/you thing. cus you have to undertsand that i was also in an influence of a neigborhood. its like HU2 where you basicly went after shos all game and i was shouting hes town but at the end you were like "well i dont care he didnt reach out to me"

im getting a repeat of that here now and thats whats unfolding

when I wanted to look elsewhere for scum other than metal cos of the claim you pushed it through so wtf, this is nothing like shos.

unless you are saying that you were townreading metal...at some point when you wanted him lynched? <----- I wld like this answered.

cos I don't remember that happening at all.

your angles are wrong. why are you asking why pple are assuming a rb? I mean it comes down to either yukari/cho is lying or we are unless there is a rb in play or in some vague universe far far away a protect. I am trying to figure out why you are staying away from the whole situ when it shld be your top priority to sort it out.

I wld also like you to give me a stance on zzthing and I do not wanna hear how he has not posted much so you can't give a read cos you seem to have this expectation that other pple shld be able to but not you.

and drop the emotional blackmail. you want space but when it is given you do nothing with it except...this. more aTe. I want to see you try to solve the game cos I am simply not seeing it.

my earlier response was better and more focused but I am tired and this will have to do for now.

[Frogging Mollie]

okay so lets try some set up spec here cos I want to leave a decent trail.

This game has a semi-open element to it. It works as follows:

a) One role from each pool will be randomly chosen. If there are multiples of a role, each pool will be rerolled.
b) Exactly three pools will roll a town role and exactly one will roll a mafia role.
c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

[N] -> Usable at Night.
[D] -> Usable at Day.
[A] -> Usable Action.
[P] -> Passive Action.

---

Pool 1:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Pool 2:

1) 2-shot Doctor
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Voyeur
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:

1) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
2) 2-shot Doctor
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 4:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Spoiler: Ability PMs

Town:

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- You have no special characteristics.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. They will be protected against a single kill. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn who that player visited, if anyone. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn what type of actions targeted that player, if any. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, they will be informed that they were given fruit. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- If an investigative role that returns a form of "Guilty" or "Not Guilty" targets you, you will return the guilty result. You will not be informed if this occurs.

Mafia:

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn the role of that player. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game. You will not be informed if this occurs.

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- Every attempt to target you with a kill action will fail. You will not be informed if this occurs.

what are pple's thoughts on that the 3 town and 1 scum will be from each of the 4 pools? cos that is how I interpret it to mean, does anybody else?

claimed, flipped roles:

flipped 2 neighbours, metal and wni

confirmed: 3rd neighbour, ika
claimed: vt, us

ika are you soft-claiming a neighbour/fruit vendor? cos that is what it looks like you are soft-claiming. which does not make sense to me but you are better at set-up spec than I, cld you help me out here? tere?

anybody else?

[Frogging Mollie]

Just a quick note in here to say I'm back from my part of the Frogging Mollie V/LA (I'm not sure if Mollie is yet). I'll read through and give my thoughts today.

(Frog)

[Frogging Mollie]

okay so lets try some set up spec here cos I want to leave a decent trail.

This game has a semi-open element to it. It works as follows:

a) One role from each pool will be randomly chosen. If there are multiples of a role, each pool will be rerolled.
b) Exactly three pools will roll a town role and exactly one will roll a mafia role.
c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

[N] -> Usable at Night.
[D] -> Usable at Day.
[A] -> Usable Action.
[P] -> Passive Action.

---

Pool 1:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Pool 2:

1) 2-shot Doctor
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Voyeur
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:

1) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
2) 2-shot Doctor
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 4:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Spoiler: Ability PMs

Town:

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- You have no special characteristics.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. They will be protected against a single kill. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn who that player visited, if anyone. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn what type of actions targeted that player, if any. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, they will be informed that they were given fruit. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- If an investigative role that returns a form of "Guilty" or "Not Guilty" targets you, you will return the guilty result. You will not be informed if this occurs.

Mafia:

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn the role of that player. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game. You will not be informed if this occurs.

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- Every attempt to target you with a kill action will fail. You will not be informed if this occurs.

what are pple's thoughts on that the 3 town and 1 scum will be from each of the 4 pools? cos that is how I interpret it to mean, does anybody else?

claimed, flipped roles:

flipped 2 neighbours, metal and wni

confirmed: 3rd neighbour, ika
claimed: vt, us

ika are you soft-claiming a neighbour/fruit vendor? cos that is what it looks like you are soft-claiming. which does not make sense to me but you are better at set-up spec than I, cld you help me out here? tere?

anybody else?

I am going to keep reposting this until some1 notices and decides to i dunno, do set up spec with 2 flipped roles and 2 claims I mean colour me silly but this might actually prove to be beneficial.

tere how exactly is your lynch pool wide? I mean the only scumread you have is plum. every1 else you have given some indication is town at some point except your recent change on hydraflower.

I am so done with this game.

cho and I need to be sorted TODAY. not tomorrow, not the next day, TODAY, period end of story.

also ika don't ignore me I asked you if you are a fruit vendor yes or no. if no then why were you asking if any1 got fruit.

VOTE: cho

[Frogging Mollie]

Jfc.

You design and review setups. Don't tell me you're even considering that could be possible here.

plz do not tell me that you think a 13 player set up wld have a scum bp and a scum roleblocker cos I don't even

holy cow

how do you get away with this shit

[Frogging Mollie]

jesus christ

plz lynch us

plz

[Frogging Mollie]

If mollie is town (which most of us believe),

why would scum block a Vig pointed at a townie?

That's two kills in one Night for them, and they could simply shoot the Vig later once they think the maybe!Doctor has used up both of their shots.

I have been trying to have this discussion for ages. it makes no sense.

yukari's claim was sooper sketch but no1 wants to talk about it

[Frogging Mollie]

YUKARI WANTED US DEAD BEFORE METAL AND SAID HE HAD A WAY THAT HE CLD SORT METAL ON D2.

HOW ANY1 IS MISSING THIS IS QUITE BEYOND ME

[Frogging Mollie]

plum I can accept that newbs will not understand the importance of resolving the yukari/cho vs us issue but i am having a really hard time accepting the reluctance from you cos you know what happens if this is not resolved.

it shld be between cho and us and really no other lynch is optimal at this point so why are you being useless with your vote.

[Frogging Mollie]

I don't see why on Day 2 we need to lynch the vig ASAP. Even if you think I'm scum (which claiming vig of all fakeclaims out of nowhere D1 would be dumb af to do, no matter how low of an opinion you have of Yukari).

If we think you are scum, we should lynch you.

And yes, it's a dumb fakeclaim, but Yukari has made a ton of newb mistakes. And if town? Then it was dumb af to realclaim vig there too:
- Under no pressure
- claim a town PR and out yourself
- state who you were going to shoot upon a Metal lynch (us, a claimed VT)
- then claim you were roleblocked (why would scum RB a vig shooting another townie?)

Does not compute.

Either way it was dumb af, but probably even more dumb as town because if Chokari (ooh, I like that name) really is town (they aren't), then a townsperson dies today for sure.

(frog...still catching up)