STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[grapes]

yo

ima goddamn miller

[grapes]

VOTE: farside

[grapes]

Well, top of the morning to you too ricastle.

@vezok

I think mastin's entrance felt genuine-ish. Why's beer scum?

[grapes]

Hi grapes!
Is there no trust in our relationship still?

Lol. Probably.

Depends mostly on if you rolled town this game. Which it feels like you did tbh.

[grapes]

I thought alliances could only happen if two slots targeted each other anyway. Which seems difficult to pull off uncoordinated.

I think the process of choosing allies and stuff should be kept within a pseudo-town-block type thing(which, granted will probably be prone to error early on but we can try) and decided that way. I don't see why trying to set them up in thread would necessarily be bad, considering it's really the only way to set one up besides neighborhoods and the like.

Now that I think about it, if you are in a hood, your best bet would be and try and activate your alliance there. (Bar some strong feelings of distrust as we've recently seen from vez/beer) Otherwise, doing it in thread is pretty much the only way.

We also need to remember that scum probably benefit from them as well and as such it's even more important to choose allies and such wisely and to get the townblock hopefully correct and strong. And then close to deadline before the climax or whatever, when our reads are hopefully at the strongest, choose our targets then.

This

may

lead to giving scum better NK targets or at least being able to correctly dismantle one potential two town alliance but unless we're just flat wrong about our reads and scum are slipping into alliances somehow we're at the very least giving mostly town a power boost depending on the accuracy of the block.

Outside of a mass-claim, I

think

that's about as optimal as we could hope for. Because we're just shooting in the dark otherwise.

[grapes]

Beer has the least annoying gimmick I've seen in a while. I think they're also pretty town so far in.

The biggest ping I've felt was reasonably rationals entrance. Just slightly awkward. Not sure if it was the overfocusing on claims part or just the outside looking in vibe I got from it but I'm interested in seeing more of them.

And more than half the playerlist for that matter.

[grapes]

Hi guys. Going to read the posts and stuff be back soon maybe.

[grapes]

pg 3

ragebull's entrance is meh - like they're essentially groaning about their role or whatever when there's already two stump and a miller claims out, like how bad could your PM be? Feels like something they planned to post regardless considering where the game was at during their post, just read all around kinda fake. I mean I rolled miller and even I didn't come into the thread dripping in apathy in my first post really...not super strong but my least favorite entrance by far.

And then apparently they've got a few to chat and then don't chat...

Max's entrance is kinda...wordy, I guess is the word, for my taste. Though I need to get better at looking past personality/playstyle differences when reading people. So I think that's what I'll chalk this up to for now. But my gut did sorta churn regardless.

cheetory6's entrance is meh. Townish kinda?

pg flippin 4

more boring vezok v beer shite. which is probably town/town hope this doesn't drag on forever

marquis's first post - the free reference is just random enough for it to be townish i think

bins first post is meh - don't see what was so bad about mastins entrance really

marquis trolls a little bit for some reason? town vibes kinda, though would be cool if they actually did something

pg 5

bins continues doing nothing

ricastles 101 felt like aggressive town trying to cut out the bullshit and get down to business liked very much

town vibes from radman the charmander

113 from reasonably rational just smells like a large mix of passive aggression/appeasement and doesn't really say anything

pg 6

okay marquis continues to distract and not do much, drifting this read into null territory

slight town vibes from bins - i particularly liked the vote and unvote of max - didn't feel fake and it mirrored my "read process" or thoughts of max kinda well, like a slight start towards scum and slightly drifting towards nullish town later, the immediateness of the turnaround sorta alleviates the strength of this a bit, but unsureness is hard to fake for scum and it's just kinda uncomfortable for them to make turnarounds at all anyway

don't like max kinda overfocusing on the flavor stuff, though

pg 7

cheetory directing attention back to beer/vezok, asking a lot of opinions, not giving a lot of opinions scummy

radman's reads in 161, while wishy washy as shit, feel like real thoughts

townvibes from vezok and mastin based on their interaction

168 is another semi wall of nothing, particularly didn't like the pot shot of fluminator, because I can't even tell if they're calling them scum or not, if they're aren't, then what's the point of the post? if they are, then it's pretty much calling them out for real life shit that nobody can prove false anyway, it's also a pretty easy thing to sling

so scum lean on RR

oh and btw guys I heavily disagree with allying with somebody you don't have a read on, we want to do our best to keep the alliances town/town

pg 8

wasteland pretty much

actually towards the bottom sonic x starts to get their feet wet - felt mehtown

pg 9

fuzzy's first post is all kinds of bad, uhm, i do recall him being kinda easy to scumread, if that makes sense

but the fact alone he went kinda ignored the whole rest of the page gives me the heebies, like I feel like if I was scum I could have a field day with that post if fuzzy's town

pretty much singles out mastins claim and waffles all over the place on that and tops it off with this is for sure weird behavior, like, ughhhh and then something really out of the blue with the mass claims thing

needless to say I'm really interested in seeing more substantial things from this slot and will be looking to see if they went on ignored in the pages to come

scum vibes from raging bull in 205 -

VOTE: raging bull

I mean, call this a chainsaw or whatever. But radman is pretty transparently town. Like, if he's scum I'll eat my entire collection of hats. But that's only slightly where the scumvibes come from anyway.

Just the fact alone he justified a vote because they thought ONE vote was bad just reads super fucking easy and rushed. Like, scum don't like to get caught not voting or vote parking their RVS and the post reads underlined a whole lot like "oh shit better get a serious vote down somewhere"

I like Ra9in9 Bull's entrance.

why?

pg 10

okay somebody(sonic) final acknowledges fuzzies existence, about time.

Beer's posts this page aren't

bad

but the sarcasm/snarkiness I don't really care for on a game level, (but I loled at 233.)

And while they haven't posted anything super unfakeable their vibe is still town. Reads list aint to shabby. And I'm kinda confuzzeled by how much traction their wagon has considering how boring it is.

pg 11

ugh, first half of this page is not very interesting

townvibes from farside, though

Or Beer/vezok could be scum, with a scum-flavoured role, with a fakeclaim to prevent massclaim bullshit on D1.

I would vote you in a heartbeat.

VOTE: cheetory6

here take one of mine

and with that, boredom strikes, will finish reading tomorrow or something maybe

[grapes]

UNVOTE: cheetory8

VOTE: fuzzylogic

formal catchup laterish, gonna go eat some cereal

[grapes]

No, I want to lynch both of you regardless of the first flip, to cover all possibilities. I'm relatively confident it will yield at least 1 dead scum.

Lining up lynches.

FTR sonic and beer spat is probs town on town. Both of them are fighting like they've got nothing to lose. With like no appeasement or backing off on either end.

Not liking Verzok's tunnel. Beer's posts are strange and I'm going to assume the posts in their PT are also strange. But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.

I think this is a gross oversimplification of everything that went on. But that might be just me.

This also feels kinda chainsawy.

-

cooldog's catch on page 13 or wherever the hell I'm at right now is

okay

There's a good mix of jokeyness and seriousness that feels kinda town.

Look. I'm Saddie and he's Lars. It makes sense to start in an alliance with him.

He's fucking scum. He's gloating in our PT that he claimed scum and people don't believe it.

This isn't the sort of thing scum do.

I agree. But your vote was kinda on beer at the time you posted this...

I cant tell if Vezo going after Beer is bc he sees beer as scum or an easy lynch target. Also there was a game I played where there was a scum double voter though the second vote has hidden under a puesodonym by the mod. So yeah scum can be doubke voter but it seems likely Vezo is prob town .

Why did you feel the need to point out that you've seen scum double voter and then call me town? Did it serve any purpose other than fearmongering?

^agree

he's pretty scummy, needs more votes

-

Trench Warfare's 386 and the two following felt town. The head dissonance in working out reads felt real.

Marquis, what's your case on Sonic?

VOTE: skybird

i don't think you actually care. empty empty scum

Yeah, and I remember from the last game how well you can read me. Like, not at all.

Yea I kinda agree. Especially because there was never another peep about it after you didn't actually give the case.

Like marquis' aggression here. Don't like skybirds defensiveness.

I'm also caught up. I think Max, mastina, Sonic X, vezo and farside are all probably town. Cheeto is null town. Marquis looks bad. I feel like radmann is just a noob. I hate CooLDoG's reads. This is a lot to absorb, I'm gonna keep thinking. Ask me things to help me get involved.

Hey TunnelWarriors, where's the Ricastle townread coming from?

So I hit this post and did a double take. Did not realize the Cage was gracing us with his presence. So I did a quit ISO there and it turns out, not much to my surprise this was there first 'content' provided thus far.

Entrance, which I missed somehow, felt kinda weirdish. Not super scummy or anything but kinda odd to quote cooldog from the last page and pretty much just agree that 13 pages is a fuckload to read. It's really not anyway but that's just difference of opinion. My real qualms lie in how they entered the thread. Which felt slightly hesistant I guess. Again, nothing super strong but felt kinda scummy regardless.

The reads are alright, though, they're basically just restatments of the most commonly townread people in the game thus far with no reasoning. Nothing quite spectacular.

Next post is literally just waffling on beerslot and going after someone for going after beer. Not great.

And the rest is just a bunch of arguably open-ended/uninteresting questions. Hope to see some followup on them once they've been answered.

@Cerb:

I'll explain more in the alliance PT, some things are best kept secret.

@TSO

Please explain how you are even town reading marquis, let alone saying he's bloc material.

NicCage:

My town read on Ricastle is because he's scum-hunting and I can see a genuine town-mindset which is trying to find mafia behind his posts. Will this satisfy you or do I need to give detailed examples?
Also NicCage, what if Beer's scum? That would then make Ricastle very town. Please avoid using pre-flip associatives thank you very much. The fact you're not even sure on beer's alignment makes this reason for Ricastle pushing him being "lame" even weaker.

Skybird:

As I'm also scum-reading beer and the wagons currently on him, I must say Radman's vote on him makes me feel unsure about it though. I'm willing to wagon Radman/Marquis though as I've already stated.

You pretty much just told nicCage not to use pre-flip associatives and then went on to say you're unsure about the beer wagon now that radman has joined on. Which, is a pre-flip associative.

Your reasoning for townreading ricastle feels like something you just pulled out of your ass as well. But, I think they're town anyway, so don't bother highlighting anywhere ricastle has been scumhunting in a game of mafia.

At the moment it seems I'm going with Trench and Reasonably Rational. I'm doing this to sort them.

What's stopping you from 'sorting' them in the game thread?

The forwardness of your claim and all this gives me white minivan vibes.

If that makes sense.

Also grapes. Vote raging till I figure cheet out first.

Will do. I'm going back and forth frequently in my head right now on cheetory anyway. gtmh at the moment is town

-

Not sure I care for raging bulls catch up around this page. Upon entrance they like are purposefully derailing and then proceed to ISO people randomly. Like, read the fucking thread for context. Everything they analyzed just came across really splotchy and not that genuine.

And am I the only one that finds it really fucking fishy that the first person they decided to randomly iso they came away with a scumread on?

@cerberus I have two votes. I think that's all you should realistically care to know about my role at this point in time.

That's OK Vezok. I think you are annoying too.

I'm not jumping on Beer yet because his wagon seems too convenient. I don't know how to explain it better than that right now. I do see the points against him and will most likely vote him soon. But I'm not going to rush myself just to get a town read from you. After our last game together I know you will scum read me for most of the game since that's what you did last time. I flipped town in that game, just like I will here. And to be fair, I will probably scum read you for most of the game because your play style seems scummy to me. And you also flipped town in our last game. So that does make me reluctantly feel you are probably town here.

*shudder*

Feels really appease-y and buddybuddyish and also doesn't really say anything within a decently lengthy post

tunnelwarriors and reasonably rational are town btw

they are scumhunting

tunnelwarriors kinda, reasonalby rational i haven't seen any scumhunting at all

RR- huh..what was the point of that besides to draw needless attention on yourself? Not a town move imho.

I like Skybirds response of why he/she is not jumping on the Beer wagon . I think she/he is being genuine. I didn't read anything in the comments that made me think that they were trying to needless avoid voting beer

Not sure what could make of the cop directing. I can see town doing this but I can also see scum ( especially a Godfather role ) also asking for that. For me personally this is null

I don't really know quite how to put it into words but this post felt weird. Seems like Fuzzy really isn't trying to get involved with the game at all to me. Like, where's the interacting? Why do his pushes have no force to them?

Anyway, fuzzy I kinda disagree about your skybird read. If you ever wanna talk about it hit me up. I particularly would like to know what part about 'not jumping on the beer wagon yet' could not possibly come from scum.

Considering it's the leading and lone wagon we've had so far. There was no real read on the slot given besides the wagon feeling too conveinent. (implying town)

And then at about page 24 we hit some ragingbull hydra hammyness. Not that fun to read.

Both RB and Ika needs to take a huge step back and calm down.....

We got this though. Think this makes fuzzy and raging bull unlikely to be scum together. Although, it kinda was pretty obvious ika was part of that hydra with all that going on. So it's meh really.

If anything it plainly shows fuzzy isn't aware of who's actually in this game and who isn't. Which doesn't strike me as town at all.

[grapes]

There's way too many people not voting right now. Could we fix that please?

[grapes]

Grapes
I am not pushing anyone bc i have no one to push ..i am stil trying to figure out my reads. i never push unless i am confident i pushing scum.

How is not paying attention scummy??? plus by that logic i am scummy every game since i tend not to pay total attention most of the time every game and in every game. Your push is kinda weak imho.

I mean yea you'd have a point if that was the only thing I was getting on you about. But it isn't.

"not paying attention," how you put it, isn't really what I was getting at. I'd hope that if you were town you'd try and find something from everyone in the playerlist that you can find to try and muster up some reads or something. You know that thing you do when you're town? You thinking ika was a separate person in the playerlist all together means that you really haven't been doing that. Otherwise you'd no. Admittedly this is a weak reason to think somebodies scum. But coupled with your play so far and a couple gripes I've had here and there, you know, the other things I brought up and asked you about in the same post that I'm assuming you decided to skim. I'm not feeling very comfortable with your slot.

@reasonably rational - Kindly stop worrying about my god damn role.

I'm a multivoter not a double voter. And I never claimed otherwise. I can't stack my votes.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: reasonably rational

VOTE: reasonably rational

After the next vote count I'm keeping the one that counts on your slot. And moving my other right back to fuzzy.

And there goes any cool fake-hammer reaction tests I could have maybe pulled off. Real pro-town play dudes.

Looking forward to when you stop making pushes trying to outguess the mod and actually read me or anyone based on play, think that'd be a bit more helpful.

[grapes]

I can kinda see how you'd think I'm being defensive if the game just started this morning but I've been on reasonably rational about their play so far for a while.

As for your other questions...Looks like pretty blatant role-fishing and I don't see why I'd really need to answer them or why you're so intrigued to know.

Also.

I am RR on this Grapes...its possible that you are both town but also possible one is town and one is scum.... As I said before I not assuming anything.

We need a no-shit-sherlock emote or something.

[grapes]

It's pretty simple. My role, as well as vezokpiraka's don't have much if anything to do with each other, because they're not the same role and that'd still be true even if they were, I also don't think they make us more likely to be one alignment over the other.

I'm just saying you'd have better odds reading us based on play and not role. Because guessing the setup is not only in bad taste imo, but also not very smart when you don't have to.

I mean you're pretty much proposing we both can't be town because 'reasons' and we both happen to have a role that let's us show up in the vote count more than once.

And you wonder why I think you're scum.

[grapes]

What exactly do you think I'm lying about?

[grapes]

You're pushing my slot because of role related things, from what I saw, that's what guessing the setup is, is it not? And if it was just based on noncooperation and not strictly role, then you're a fucking hypocrite after you're whole "I'm not gonna post a reads list and hunt scum till after we get flips spiel", but that's an entirely different matter all together and probably not even within the same vein because they're really not the same thing, but you're still a fucking hypocrite regardless. You had your vote on me. You think I'm scum. Nowhere outside of anything not role related did anything I've posted as a player in this game come up in regards to your read on me. That's what I meant. You actually called my early posts town. That's why I think your push is bullshit. Same with fuzzy.

I was really close to pretty much just saying fuck you, kinda wish I did, but because I want to move past the setup spec nonsense I decided to play along. But you're more than content posting obnoxiously long walls, that once again, don't progress the game forward, to keep feeding this distraction and on top of that slipping in some much unneeded insults. So now I'm upset at myself that I actually tried to cooperate with you.

Doing a regular unvote removes all my votes I had previous. Which should be apparent in the latest vote count to anyone with a brain stem. I've proven whatever you wanted me to prove.

VOTE: fuzzy

[grapes]

@RR obviously

[grapes]

Anyway...

Open invitation to all to talk about fuzzy/cage/rr/tunnelwarriors/skybird/ragingbull

mainly for anyone in this game trying to lynch scum today.

Yea I know there's too many names but I think it's a decent pool to start from.

[grapes]

What do you think about radmann?

Remember feeling some subtle townvibes and an iso there doesn't leave me shocked he's getting wagoned right now. There's certainly a lot of scummy things here. Like the blatant softing for one. I kinda feel like him attacking beer after beer going into a longwinded townread on him doesn't really scream scum, though. Like, that feels more like paranoid newbtown than anything, because as scum he has a bit more motivation to try and keep 'friends' in his pocket than push back and make them rethink their stance.

My big reservation is his disappearance, though, especially in light of a wagon forming on him. That's the most telling thing about his slot right now imo.

What would be hypocritical of me would be to claim that I'm good enough at reading peoples play to determine your alignment based on play alone right now. That's why I'm not referencing your play itself as town or scum generally. I can attempt to ascribe town or scum motivations to the actions taken, and see if they make sense for a given alignment to take.

I'm sorry but I find it sorta tough to buy that after almost 1k posts and a week into the game a HYDRA(composing two players I'm assuming at least semi-competent at finding scum from your inflated egos here) has only one 'scumread' that you immediately backed off from and were only pushing because you wanted more role info.

Are you saying that both your heads have the exact same playstyle? No scumreads day 1 ever?

I see scum do the 'vote this person for info' or 'vote this person to get content out' all the time people. It's to look busy, and not

really

step on any toes.

And now I'm 'nullscum' at worst like it's some kind of conciliation prize or something. Newsflash, your read on me I couldn't care less man.

If you were competent and had the intention of attempting some sort of fake hammer reaction test, as indicated in your post, you wouldn't have told everyone that one of your votes was fake.

Well, my idea was to 'hammer' once someone got to L-1 when I already had one vote on them. Which would be tough to do after proving that I can't have both votes on one wagon. Which is what you asked me to do so...

no, i agree with the fuzzy commentary.

VOTE: fuzzy

meta wise this is completely unlike fuzzy's towngame. there at least i've seen him providing more thoughts on things - not just prompted, but seemingly out of place comments and hard pushes as well. this just looks like he's trying to look useful - and his scumgame isn't exactly the best lol

def a better bet than Sonic right now

I've seen fuzzies towngame once or twice and I just find it weird how he wasn't really interacting with anyone and kinda in his own little world his first couple posts. So I do sorta agree with this. And I'm not sure that him getting into it more now is a result of me saying something about it, which could be because apparently he isoed me multiple times or just because he's got some pressure now.

Bins bare-bones response to my question aside (they voted Cage after Cage got a vote.. come on, why is Cage even in this list?), I appreciate grapes trying to get some focus in here.

He's one of my weaker scumreads. I was sorta withholding stronger judgment than that because like you said I wanted to see his followup. And I agree bins piggybacking my thoughts there and throwing a vote on before he had a chance to come in and do it doesn't look great.

Tunnel: Grapes, why is tunnel in here? I haven't seen you suspecting him. I'm not sure what you mean by 'white minivan', either, but you used it in context with Tunnel's alliance powers.

Admittedly another weak read. But I don't usually like full or at least BIG claims really early and my knee jerk reaction was yea this is some complete bullshit or at least too good to be true. Hence the white minivan not actually selling ice cream but nightmares instead. I think coupled with the [bad things happen to scum that target us] and the [our role is totes broken for town] was laying it on awfully thick. If I'm even remembering the claim correctly, which I may not be because I didn't really read into the intricacies of it all that much, it did make my suspicious bone tingle. Along with that a few plays they've made here and there.

Skybird: I defended their actions from Marquis earlier, and right now they're kinda nulltown. I guess they can be in the lynchpile but a lot of the motivation for voting Sky appears to be 'I don't

feel

like they're being genuine', and not a lot of actual evidence. Also I feel they are being genuine so make of that what you will.

I think there's been a lot more driveby townreads on them than the few scumreads that I can recall right now. Some of the scumreads were actually substantiated. I can't recall one townread that was.

This game is a fucking mess...too many people looking too scummy. Fuzzy and Sonic X are apparently points of contention so I don't think anything's going to get done there. However, I'm pretty sure little to no people would have an objection to, say, a radmann or a Ra9in9 lynch, right?

VOTE: radmann9

That's where you and I differ it seems. Resistance makes me want to push harder.

Can you rephrase this, though? I'm not sure if your tone is off or not here because I don't fully understand it.

Whenever someone gives "i see a townmindset" as a reason for townreading someone my eyes roll back into my brain, so the sarcasm might have been the tone you were sensing or something.

It's just a really easy thing to say that sounds like it means something when it actually doesn't, especially when not elaborated on.

[grapes]

Yea for one, I'm not even really worried about that anymore, it would of been complicated to pull off anyway, but could of in theory been really useful but oh well. Two, you're kinda choosing the least significant thing from my post on the last page to respond to, not sure if purposefully or not, labeling it fake and then concluding that I'm scum because...my iso reads like a bad actor?

Overreaction much?

[grapes]

Yea not sure why we're wagoning radman when he hasn't posted in a week and we're pretty close to deadline so getting a claim may not happen if it continues.

@Varsoon

Any word on a possible replacement for radman?

And RR trying to lurk off their wagon while counterwagons form out of nowhere is noted. Still wouldn't mind a fuzzy lynch but I think it's obvious which of the two wagoned I'd

prefer

go through.

And I find myself without an alliance setup for tonight too. Not that I care or anything.

[grapes]

Fluminator you're town right? Down to alliance?

[grapes]

Fluminator you're town right? Down to alliance?

Yea! Sure! Let's do it.

Ok cool!

[grapes]

cage do you honestly expect beer to get enough support in time?

[grapes]

Is it that impossible? There's three days left. That's like 7 days in dog years.
I mean, initial trolling aside, has the beer slot ever done anything of value?

Uhm. I guess anything is possible. But the threads been open for 10 days and we haven't even got something to L1 yet. And this isn't me trying to narrow our lynch pool down for this phase, this is me just trying to bring you and everyone else back to reality.

I'd switch there to get a lynch today I suppose because that slot is one of the many just lurking out the deadline. Though I recall a townread there so I'm kinda torn. The one thing watering it down is although the wall war they had with sonic felt tvt, semantics did pop up a lot on both sides. Maybe another iso there just to see if it was mostly misreps or misunderstandings.

[grapes]

Also I feel like Beer has a better shot than RR of being lynched

what's your read on them anyhow?

[grapes]

Afraid of looking scummy? Man, it's so weird you just outright said you were afraid of looking scummy, but I'll fly with that, sure.

But like, why would it make you look scummy? I pointed it out for the reason that it makes a person look towny? But yeah, it's 100% fake-able. I mean, I've done it. "Does scum have day talk?", etc.

Comments like that are all pretty much null.

[grapes]

replace, why did you feel the need to say you skimmed my walls? i don't blame you on the first one i guess because it was sloppy and posted from mobile but my other ones are really quite readable. Promise!

beer should claim

[grapes]

yo i just woke up and am reading stuff now

UNVOTE:

gonna go toast some bagels and when i get back will probably hammer beer because screw no lynch

[grapes]

VOTE: beer

hated isn't a role we should be really keeping around too long anyway - but someone else should vote after this in the off chance it's a fakeclaim

i hope to christ we won't be deadline lynching like this anymore after today

[grapes]

I am not liking Grapes vote...it was bad. It was pretty much Beer is hated so its okay we lynch him.

That's fair I guess.

But it was like 2 hours till deadline at that point so.

Who else do you think is scum fuzzy?

[grapes]

Looks more to me like marquis was the nk. It fits as a low info kill kinda sorta with a hint of PR fishing. Cheets flip probably didn't show just because he died as a result of marquis dieing or something.

Also iirc cheet was under a bit more fire than marquis anyway so to me cheet to me makes lense sense as the scum kill than marquis. Although either would be kinda strange.

Regardless my mind doesn't go directly to janitor but I guess that's a possibility.

[grapes]

A closer look at marquis and yea, I'm of the opinion they died because obv power role.

That said though I think the people more apt to read into the fluff would still probably be among his scum reads. Or scum that are familiar with him.

skybird and fuzzy come to mind.

VOTE: skybird

don't like sky's softsaw of beer when getting tunneled by vezok just to ultimately end up on the beer wagon

[grapes]

Grapes
True... if you had just said that we are at the 11th hour and needed a lynch bc of the flip I wouldnt thought nothing of it....why not just said that why the goofy excuse???

hated is policy before lylo, he didn't mention he'd lose the hated part in lylo, not really all that goofy imo

[grapes]

Who is scum
I dont know... I thought I was going to be vigged since I was being read scum so hard yesterday, I didnt take the time to reread everything . I am liking any one who was on the Beer wagon . I want to relook and see who ping scum from the people who voted Beer.Possible Beer was a town run up however I have a feeling that there was atleast 1 scum on that wagon

Okay let's just something different. Who's town?

Beer wagon isn't a bad place to start I suppose if you're looking for scum. I'm also thinking 1 scum if that because it was a lynch that sorta just pushed itself through, if that makes sense. It also only took 9 votes technically. So it's tough for me to gleam anything compelling from it tbh.

[grapes]

Looking back at the end of the day, sonic, your reaction to my hammer felt kinda, fake, I guess is the word. Like, not to damper anything you were trying to do but it felt like a reaction test you planned to do regardless, and I don't think it's really all that alignment indicative, but I also doubt you would actually reset the votes that close to deadline, especially as scum.

I am starting to see where you're coming from though in regards to frogger. I kinda left my scumread on them alone because the traction died on their hydra slot yesterday. But the whole pissing test you've got going on right now with them feels like scum trying to find any small hypocrisies that aren't even particularly alignment indicative to just discredit your read on them in general.

VOTE: frogger

I'd like to explore this.

[grapes]

i was looking at beer's latest posts and frogger was hitting my scumdar consistently. i know how he plays. grapes hammered a minute before i posted that, if you noticed the timestamps. no way i could have anticipated that

Except I gave intent like an hour before. And like cerb said there's a preview before you post, so.

Actually now it just feels like you're trying to milk towncred..

[grapes]

RR, the way you're posting today makes it a lot easier to get a feel for you than your posting yesterday, for what it's worth.

You're also responding and talking about more things that aren't you today, which is better. Was gonna continue to push you had you not knocked that off.

[grapes]

you guys need to seriously stop with the flavor stuff

frog really needs more votes

bins and frogs claims both sound like scum just claiming their roles as appose to fake claiming something else to me, the ascetic doesn't necessarily make frog scum, though, all that does is give more credence to sonics claim, the whole way frog went about it is scummy though

the bins thing is word of mouth which i don't put much stock into, interested to hear from that slot a bit more on the subject

a multi-vanillarizar alliance joiner doesn't particularly scream town role to me, but it's really REALLY powerful as a scum role if you think about it

[grapes]

by word of mouth i mean i just still dont feel like im getting the entire story, not that you all are scum together, that's just silly

bins saying that she didn't know exactly how to use her role kinda smells like bullshit too

[grapes]

essentially zero

[grapes]

does it feel like they're just OMGUSing each other and going through this elaborate gambit as some kind of scum theater thing just for shits to you?

just the way it all happened and the timing of frogs claim, which wasn't immediate, like he genuinely didn't know what the fuck was going on, or what sonic was doing, the heartfelt-ness in response to sonic later on when he claimed makes them being buddies hard to believe for me

[grapes]

everyone on your team...?

[grapes]

Varsoon said everyone on my faction. I don't know if that means everyone on my team or everyone in my alliance.

why exactly would you think that leaving the alliance would result in your 'team' having their roles 'eliminated' and not the alliance?

[grapes]

that's a bit of a leap in logic, but a bit less of a leap if he's scum

[grapes]

sup, had an unbearably long weekend

gonna try and catch up tonight if not tomorrow

[grapes]

This game gives me a migraine.

skybird continues to coast, nobody says anything

maxwell kinda fell off since day 1 as well, ive got him nullish scum i think - because i can't even tell who or what he's pushing or stands for and that makes me uncomfortable - but lord knows there's better lynches today

ricastle is probably town, please don't start lurking buddy, bullies gonna bully

uhm, i dunno part of my problem is whenever i try and get into this game ive only got an hour or two to post and nobody is trying to interact - which is semi my fault as well cuz two way street and all that

frogger who are you scumreading besides sonic? because a recent iso of you leaves me scratching my head on that question, i guess you're kinda thinking bins is scum, but that's sorta becoming an echo chamber at this point

i think the bins slot might be town but there's something really creepy about that dancing bear that makes me never want to look at it again

did you and ika ever touch base about the skybird read that you've presumably since forgotten about?

[grapes]

so you've got like 3 scum reads, 2 if we don't count the waffle on replace in, which is pretty convienent because he's trying to confirm you as town based on flavor, how is that even possible in this game, i'd be happy lynching like half the playerlist (not literally lol)

there's not a lot of scum motivation to try and attempt to clear you via flavor, though, i guess, unless you're scum together

could someone explain how trying to do that wouldn't be a dangerous thing to do?

even if it makes sense based on the show, or even based on the setup, whatever, if there aren't fakeclaims that don't fit in as whatever claims you're all considering to be town, for whatever reason, then id be kinda disappointed at how laughably breakable this setup would be

like, i just don't understand why so many of you think that'd be a practical approach to this game at all, especially without any scumflips yet

[grapes]

You can't count

1 sonic
2 replaced
3 hermit
4 Nic cage

oh my bad, the hermit slot too, i can make a case for the top 3 being town, replaced is the closest of them to null territory

niccage wouldn't be a terrible lynch i guess, what about his recent posts made you put him 'firmly in the scum pile'?

[grapes]

Grapes, how is Skybird your best vote right now? You said yourself that there at least a few people that you could lynch today, apparently, so why are you wasting your time with a vanity wagon?

I'll use my vote however I want tyvm!

Not even sure who you're voting atm.

[grapes]

Grapes, why do you feel I am coasting? I am putting out content, not as much as others, but it is there. If you have a specific question you'd like to ask me, please go ahead.

I just feel really underwhelmed with your one or two posts a day that you do post. An original opinion is sorta a rarity from you, particularly this phase.

Outside of those rare moments it's either questions, which don't feel like you particularly care the answer to, not something really game related, or something related to the hermit slot in some form or another.

Day 1 I felt you were more volatile and actually trying to figure things out. Mostly referring to your interacts with vezok in trying to discern what was actually happening in their private topic, but now in retrospect that whole debacle was in it's entirety something really easy to focus in on anyway. Your falling off the radar in conjunction with your plop onto the hermit wagon makes everything you've done this phase just feel kinda phoned in.

[grapes]

I'm not sure how the number of scum reads I have even matters.

It does and it doesn't. I've never played with you before so I'm just trying to get a feel for you and how many scum reads you could potentially juggle as scum and the unwavering until faced with something convenient to waver for isn't doing you a lot of favors.

[grapes]

Grapes: ISO Varsoon and you'll see who I'm voting. Surprise, it's Constantine.

I'll ask a different but related question. Who are all these people who would make a good lynch?

Right now I'd like to lynch skybird, frogger, fuzzy or maybe niccage and would be mostly indifferent to a lynch on cooldog, you and constantine.

I find it ironic I'm answering you here given your stances remain ambiguous to me since I brought it up last page..

[grapes]

Tell me where it was convenient for me to move from scum to town on Vezok, from scum to town on skybird, from unsure to scum on Constantine, town to unsure on fuzzy, and unsure to town on RR? I guess you are forming this opinion based off the Replaced In claim.

I mean. I'm not keeping tabs on all of your read changes. Why would I care to. But assuming those changes are all true, they don't particularly strike me as inconvenient? I guess that would depend on the reason you changed your mind and everything that was going on. Or if you're scum and just shifted your read because it was convenient for you. That's...kinda how it works? Those changes in your reads there seem kinda arbitrary at least in comparison to someone claiming that they think they can clear you as town based on flavor.

I mean, you check in every few days, try to catch up, clearly have been missing parts of the game (as you've shown twice since you've been here today alone), and are forming your reads based off catch-up posts and partial information due to your attempted catch ups. Yet you criticize sky for coasting when almost every post of theirs has had content either through analysis or questioning, but you are the one coasting on your miller/double vote claim trying to make a catch up every few days.

You really think I expect to coast anywhere close endgame on a miller claim? That doesn't even make sense.

I feel adequately caught up. Just because I wasn't aware of every intricacy of a single post you made a while ago about niccage doesn't mean I'm not.

Also, skybird and I are different people and I'm assuming we have different levels of things going on. When I'm here and can post that's when the readable content comes out. The prod dodges and the like should be mostly null, and are certainly not comparable between two different players.

You know, this whole interaction feels off in a lot of ways. Like, why did that particular hypocrisy you just called me out on only seem to creep up now? Like, have I not been scum reading skybird the majority of the game? And, despite me scum reading your slot, you've hardly mentioned me this game. And only until now when I start actually taking some time to make a push to feel you out, now you're a grapes expert and start slinging dirt on me...for 'lurking' no less.

[grapes]

So my catch up walls are boring to read and when I make it short and sweet it's underwhelming.

whatever

and yes skybird is coasting anyone paying a modicum of attention to him would see that

and yea my activity has been splotchy but that's not the same thing as coasting

[grapes]

I'VE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO SKYBIRD! I've seen how his read evolved on Beer, I've seen how his read evolved on me (he took my side on the Sonic/me 1v1), I've seen how he's made some good points about Constantine. He's given speculation on the double voting situation poitning out now that farside has a vote the double vote and two stumps don't balance any more (which will bring me to a point about your double vote).

I disagree. The evolution of the read there didn't really feel completely unfakable to me. It mostly felt unnatural. Because if you recall it started out as a chainsaw of vezok. Which, is a red flag already. That's association without flips. I think the town thought process there should of been first, read the slots individual of each other, then look at the interactions and take in as much info as you can. Not default to one of them being scum automatically, just because the other thinks that one is scum. Make sense?

I don't get how town would not first default to a tvt alliance and moreover somehow reverse both of their reads in the span of a dayphase.

You criticize me for not engaging you, but you admit yourself you didn't keep tabs on my reads,

and you don't care to

(where's the town mindset in that?). You scum read me for not changing my reads (except when convenient...yet I've pointed out several reads changing that didn't come at convenient times, yet you seem to think they weren't inconvenint,

but you don't even go look

and instead want to make a blanket assumption they don't seem inconvenient), but you haven't changed your reads on myself or Sky all game.

No, engaging is a two way street. So I wouldn't and haven't criticized you about that. It's just irking me that you evidently have been paying attention to me but haven't really brought me up until now.

And why is that bad if I haven't seen a reason to change them?

Back to that double vote point...your double vote power is more scummy than vezok's. At least with your double vote, you have the option of bussing and simultaneously mislynching as scum, whereas Vezok can double vote only the same person, making it much less likely he's scum because bussing would be very detrimental to scum in that situation. Given that Farside is no longer a stump, there is now 17 players (9 to lynch), but 18 eligible votes. Your split vote makes it so that there still really is only 17 possible votes that could go on a single player (since your other vote cannot go on the same person twice), keeping the game's voting balance.

Again, I don't really think this is all that strong a point for me scum. And it doesn't really look like you thought this point all the way through anyway. You just kinda listed a few(and admittedly sly) ways that my role

could

be used if it were a scum role. And then go on to it keeps the games voting balance. Which, isn't really even a thing? Now, this is obviously biased because I know my role is a town role but I think for all intents and purposes my votes are more or less balanced the same as someone with just one vote anyway because the only thing that really matters at the end of the day is wagon dynamics. And I can only be on one wagon.

Also, your sequence on Beer was really poor. Especially the last two posts. Oh, I woke up. Better catch up. Nah, hammer (but call for a back up hammer just in case). Also you "recalled a town read" on Beer, but

did you actually go back through and ISO Beer/Sonic to confirm to yourself it was TvT?

Doesn't look like it. How did their interaction "feel" TvT?

What's my scum motivation for hammering a townread 2 hours until deadline? I could of just lurked. I mean yea chances are people were around and someone was gonna hammer but I wanted to be sure we got a lynch.

And I didn't realize laziness was a scumtell either. :/

[grapes]

No analysis whatsoever after a long time of not posting. Had there been good analysis in a short concise post your catch up would have been fine. You are trying to catch me on some technicality that isn't true.

That wasn't me trying to catch you on a technicality. That's me just being mad because the best way I know how to play this game is glazed over by a good majority of people here. And my attempt at trying to try something different, like a hit the thread quick and run approach hasn't been taken kindly to either..

[grapes]

On D1 I voiced my concern that everyone automatically assumed double voter was town. (And there you are, scum reading me.)

Yes.

Grapes-scum cackled to his scum buddies in the mafia topic about how naive this town was, as townie after townie after

townie

began to write him off as town for being a double-voter. When suddenly skybird wooshed in and said "wait a minute, we should NOT assume the double voters are town!"

Grapes-scum howled in anger and vowed swift vengeance against the bird, quickly fabricating a scum case to get her lynched and silence this enormous threat to himself and his scum team.

-

I mean

really

?

I even specifically said myself day 1 that my role doesn't confirm anything. And to my knowledge not really that many people are town reading me, much less because of my claim so.

:/

[grapes]

Well Grapes, it's not like you've made a case on me. So why do you really think I'm scum?

Have I not laid that out loud and clear already? On the same page you posted this?

Tbh I'd really rather you talk about your reads and thoughts on the game and stuff. Because most of my problems with you actually stem from getting vibes of you holding back, at least at the core. That would have a double effect of helping me read you, others read you AND I. And wouldn't clog up the thread with a redundant case wall of things I've pretty much already said that half the players here would be less likely to read anyway.

Like what's your read on me frogger and farside would be a cool start?

[grapes]

So I'm officially scum reading grapes now.
These last two pages of his reason why he is scum reading sky is utter crap.
He states other scum reads but doesn't push on anyone and then bitches about people not being as active when his post count is low and very underwhelming.

Vote: grapes

sup farside

how's it going

What about my thoughts on skybird do you specifically not like? That might help me understand exactly why you think it's utter crap. I mean it was basically an expounding on what I posted the start of this phase, so, were you just waiting to say this or did you just now notice?

I also don't like how you're going after me for something that's like at best just a difference in opinion about how to scum hunt. Like if you think I'm barking up the wrong tree then then you've kept pretty quiet about how strongly you've been townreading skybird to my memory. And even then I think it's weird for you to call my push scum motivated just because you think it's bad anyway.

[grapes]

hmm this game has been kinda dragging as of late

is that my bad?

probably but lemme go check who's been lurking it up anyway brb

[grapes]

fuzzy hasn't been around in a while and to those of you asking him for reads good luck on that front he already kinda dodged me when i asked him about them to start the day

hey cooldog do you have a vote or are you just glued to frogger no matter what? this might have been brought up already

my alliance friend and i seem to be playing activity tag which is lame

[grapes]

I'm pretty much trash this game and I completely feel for replace in, I'm in the same boat. Even though I don't have much in the way of scum reads I do have townreads, and so since I don't know how else to jump into the game I just wanna say that I think both skybird and replace are town. I thought radmann was town yesterday because he said he was willing to claim his role in order to help people read him. I didn't know at the time that mods generally give out fake claims, but I still feel like that new scum would be like "oh I'll just claim" immediately on being scumread. I thought that mindset fit town better since several other players had mentioned parts of their roles and he would have felt like that was a normal thing to do.

For skybird, I felt like she has been fairly genuine if not always super effective at asking questions. I'll reread her later to make sure though

I'm feeling some insincerity here. Because I've seen you jump into the game at one point last phase and even interact with bins a bit. Which, made me feel better about your slot in turn. There's a lot of things for you to address, people talking about your slot in particular. Specific points about your play and things you've said and asked that went unfollowed up to. People like replace in and myself even I can understand having trouble getting into this game because when we post for the most part we go ignored and then get called scum for lurking. Which, has happened to you a couple times admittedly but still I really think you've got the capability to get more involved you're just choosing not to for whatever reason.

Not really following your point about radmann either. I think it's basically null if not more scummy, especially depending on how quickly integrated he could have gotten if he rolled scum and if the fakeclaims are really safe. The fact that he worded it as "alleviate the scumreads" and not "help people read me" also doesn't really fill me with warm fuzzies. Not sure why it does for you.

[grapes]

It's the same mantra repeatedly with nothing added.
Just because you sit there pointing to the same player saying the same thing doesn't make you town or look genuine.

Way to not really actually address my post, not sure why you decided to quote it. The slap down of my reach out is noted.

[grapes]

To me, you case read like you didn't like my questions because you couldn't tell what I was getting out of them or where I was going. I can tell you I didn't ask just to ask. I've already explained to Ricastle that I don't post just to post. So if I asked someone a question, there was a reason. It may have looked like I just dropped the line of questioning or something, but I did get something from it that I'm not always going to explain. I'm just going to say that how a person responds to your question, how they answer it or ignore it, can say quite a bit about their mindset.

I have a null-scum read on you. I don't automatically assume you are town just because you are a double voter. You also were resistant to Reasonably Rational when they were trying to see how both your and Vezok's double voting abilities worked. If you are town, why not help town understand how it works.

Frogger is a town read for me. He was very forth-coming about his vote moving ability and his posts about it have felt genuine.

Farside is also a town read. She is involved and scum hunting.

Your first point is inarguable because it's true. And it's not a terrible way to scumhunt. But I've seen you ask things like "how do you scumhunt" or "who didn't join an alliance." "did anyone take the quiz" etc. Questions that that don't press very hard if at all. And in the case of the first question which you asked to beer, which is an easily manipulated or null answer however he decided to give it, and when he answered you responded with something like "oh okay thanks" which, ironically was called out by frogger. (I'm having trouble seeing both of you and frogger being scum together as a result of both of your slots softly OMGUSing eachother day 1, but is a bit more likely now that ika is gone, and all of a sudden you're WKing each other, both flipping your reads miraculously and imo a bit unnaturally? Admittedly the WKing is coming a lot more loudly and strong from frogger than it is from you, though.) And I'd like to see him lynched before you if given the choice.

Floating along asking stuff just makes my funny bone tingle because while, yea both alignments can do it, it's probably one of the easiest ways for scum to lay low and keep their story straight. This is why I've been wanting to press you and see what's happening with you. Does that make a bit more sense?

For example you're scum reading me, but only decide to bring it up once I ask. I find that kinda strange because don't you want your scum reads to get lynched? Why keep em to yourself? And you couldn't have developed that read recently because apparently it was about my defensiveness day 1. So...

As was brought up before, everything frogger has been forthcoming about with his role would have been something that would have been easily seen eventually anyway, so, it's pretty much null. And yea the fact that he could of just not allied I guess. But that seems like just as good a way to stick out or get people asking questions IMO as well.

BUT does you allegedly thinking that my double vote is somehow imbalanced now become alleviated somewhat with the knowledge that frogger is somewhat a pseudo-doublevoter? Or is that just something that you don't think should be accounted for?

I think farside is town as well. But for other reasons. Being involved and scumhunting kinda applies to half(sadly not more) of the players alive and is a bit insulting to her scumgame. Have you seen far's scumgame?

[grapes]

The Hermit
I was thinking that maybe was just not a good player or maybe off with his play. His nuking his PT could just be a dumb townie move. I know I made those as well. I kinda played it off as such. What really got me concern about Hermit is his naked vote on NC. He never mention NC in any previous posts as far I can tell, he never said why , and has not mention or push for a NC Vote, After I started to look at his naked vote I went through the whole nuke incident again but without the blinders on. He has yet to admit he was wrong and admit his actions were bad, Yes TW shouldn't of claimed vig but nuking them and than getting them vigged is not town at all.
So yeah the Hermit has to die

VOTE: The Hermit

There's a lot of hedging in this post for my liking.

Also not admitting you were wrong kinda boils down to personality/pride and isn't really a scumtell.

Don't really so much mind the niccage vote because I think there's a chance he's scum.

Also, have there not been any other naked votes insofar this game fuzz, why are you just zeroing in on this particular one?

[grapes]

Just read up from yesterday and.. I wanna interact with someone.

Grapes, you're so sure of your Skybird read, and you told me not to be the vote police, but maybe you could just.. tell us where you're going with the Skybird vote? Is it a wagon or not? Is a it a super secret gambit? You can just say that you're trying to get Skybird lynched, I don't know why you got all defensive when I asked about it.

I'd love to interact max and had tried to a few days ago. Not sure what happened.

But this is a weird way to do it...When my vote is on someone it's because I want them lynched.

I think I've been kinda thinking you're a bit more scummy today because you've been less involved than day 1(hypocrite ik) and that you've been kinda hard defending all my scumreads.

And that's an alarm bell not because I think OMG YOU MUST BE SCUM TOGETHER or anything like that. But because when you do so it's because 'genuine' or something else I just don't quite follow for whatever reason. And that's making me think we're staring at this stagnated thread through different lenses some times.

But I get what you're trying to say anyway, though. You want me to compromise on a lynch.

I also think out of everyone here I should be able to be on a vanity wagon because in doing so I'm the only one who isn't actively avoiding vca or hindering the progression of the game because while you forget I've been parking on skybird I've also been sitting on the very viable frogger wagon. Which is also endorsed by mastin who's a stump, so it technically should have like 3 votes.

UNVOTE: skybird

most likely voting cage after a vote count

[grapes]

I'll wait for Boo to catch up to try to get a better read on that slot, but Flum was super meh. Grapes, you were allied with Flum, right? What did you think of him?

Any subtle glimpses of town that possessed me to ask for an ally with him have long since disappeared.

I think once bookitty starts to get involved her alignment will be pretty easy to figure out for me, though. So I'm not all too preoccupied with that slot atm.

[grapes]

Grapes has been prodded.

received

Gonna try and read and stuff tonight.

But in the mean time, Replace in, who should we tear into tomorrow?

[grapes]

tfw scum nk one of your top scum reads ^^

normally, the quick wagon would give some cause for alarm but this really does need to die today

VOTE: frogger

[grapes]

I want grapes to talk, not you.
I'm not voting him because of the mod mix up.
I have info.

what do you want to talk about?

[grapes]

Good day!

I have not read stuff.

I'm working to correct this.

I allied grapes but it seems she was not interested. :c

it's not really that i wasn't interested as much as my chances of allying with you were lower than with cage - i did figure you both would try and ally me, though, because lack of options etc

i should really bump this game higher up my priorities list so that stuff doesn't happen anymore but i probably wont lol

[grapes]

have no clue

[grapes]

Because frogger is scum!
And nothing that mastina has done makes me think she's scum, unless she shows up tomorrow and isn't conftown

Her trigger is today. She explains today why the mod did not announce her as conftown.

Frogger is the same damn wagon that got us ReplaeIn. Not touching it.

actually the only common name from yesterdays wagon is vezok i think unless you count farside and your short time upon

food for thought

@mastin: I'm town and farside is town. Fro99er and titus are scum. Remake your reads based on this.

Well that'd make me think one or both (if five scum) of Fuzzy/grapes were scum, to fill the gaps: Titus (I was mistaken about the townread there, which I may or may not explain why), Fro99er, and Maxwell = 3 scum, and Fuzzy/grapes makes the fourth/fifth (or fifth/fourth).

I can definitely buy that.

lol

i gotta hear the logic behind a grapes/fuzzy/frogger/trench scumteam

you should actually try and read my posts or something before trying to fit a star shape into a square hole

and while you're at it explain why vezok and i both can't be town - this point im more interested to hear for obvious reasons

also, im not sure why you're so worried about the wagon composition really, the only person that could possibly be bussing is vezok, to my eye, which isn't something I'd pursue any day soon here personally, and wouldn't worry about until after a frog flip anyway

[grapes]

are people finally opening their eyes to RR

the same slot just sitting on the sidelines not pushing shit and calling every case he sees bad while simultaneously avoiding every wagon with any chance of going through like the plague

I guess in fairness most all the wagons we've had so far besides frogger

have

been pretty shitty but really now

[grapes]

I'm convinced tso and titus are different alignments at this point.

[grapes]

@farside:

Spoiler: frog/RR talk targeting each other

Vezok, RR and I have decided to neighborize other people tonight. We both agreed that you and I neighborizing would be a good idea. Please tell me if you're interested sooner rather than later, because if you're not, then we need to pick a new person for me to neighborize with.

~ObvTitus

As Titus said above. We'd like to neighborize either Sonic or Frogger, if either party to that snafu at the start of the day would be willing.

-Cerb

Preferably Frogger, btw, but I'd like to discuss things with both of you really.

-Cerb

Not a fan of Hermit's "Ricastle did it too" so it justifies me attitude. Scum often uses the "oh another townie did it" excuse, and he seems to be misreading or misrepping what was said in your PT.

RR is reading super town as a result of that last post.

Not sure what Cool thinks about your ally proposal to me, but our PT has been pretty sparse...but that's just because he's less active it seems. You'd also have to be ok with my vote following ability.

Yeah, that's fine. I'm pretty damn active...I doubt my vote would be anywhere I didn't want it for any notable amount of time.

-Cerb

Also, frogger: Any thoughts on my proposal?

Sonic: you said Light Prism right? Would you object to clarifying if said prism is identified as a gem, or as other, in your PM? I could see it going either way I think.

-Cerb

Also, frogger: Any thoughts on my proposal?

Yeah, I'll ally with you. CoolDog hasn't really been too responsive anyway in our PT, so I don't know how much either of us are getting out of that, even though it's been good the times he does respond.

Meh. I'm actually thinking this makes frogger and RR not that likely to be scum together, though. Like they've got a private topic they could of worked this out in and it doesn't really feel awkward on RRs end I guess.

and i kinda like the drixx posts about hounding them in the private topic for some reason

cerb i just think our personalities don't click well

@trench - where did your constantine push disappear to?

and where is constantine, for that matter

[grapes]

hey farside what's your read on the xtoxm slot? did you get anything out of the couple of boo posts?

[grapes]

Grapes: lying very low on the radar. I've seen town graoes and he is more active then this with a train of thought and pushing scum reads harder then this. In short meta.

>grapes
>active

lol

[grapes]

this is actually the most ive posted in any game here and it's only like day 3

[grapes]

i have a theory

about why you always think im scum

it may have something to do with how laughably easy it is for me to read you and how horrendous you are at reading me

im down to talk reads and stuff, im an open book, it's just frogger needs to get lynched

i was gonna post a case but looks like mastin has got that covered and it'll probably blow anything i could do out of the water

so im just sitting here, waiting for when the game gets interesting and trying to get involved, like, im not afraid to give content, all you gotta do is ask

[grapes]

After Fro99er got back from the vet, he was quite willing to submit to our questioning, and one particular thing he said simply doesn't make sense coming from a scum viewpoint, on top of the other evidence for him being town.

Not even remotely convinced.

Agree that the mastin wagon is bad, though. Which, I'm guessing is the main reason you outed so whatever.

Farside is probs town, though.

Vezok is meh. Could lynch that but don't really want to today.

[grapes]

lol

[grapes]

okay sonic

mastin can be our third

[grapes]

because it looks like we're short on time here

[grapes]

the sad thing about cooldog is he might actually be town

[grapes]

fuzzy is either town or a scum pizza vendor that didn't know the heads of a hydra scum buddy and also threatened to policy lynch them i think

i sorta wanna vote constantine but i think he's getting replaced maybe?

@varsoon?

He has been active on-site. If he does not post in the game thread within 48 hours of day start, I will prod him.

[grapes]

He seems disengaged, but it doesn't feel genuine to me; it feels very self-serving and I think it's more likely coming from a lazy scum mindset than lazy town. I feel town would be more likely to admit they're lost, rather than accuse the town of poor play during a period when people are actually motivated, and bringing up a shoddy and poorly thought out case at the end of D2 in order to look like they are engaged with the game instead of actually engaging with it.

I will admit that his ricastle case seems a little odd for scum to make since it would attract a lot of negative attention, but I don't think we are seeing CooLDoG playing optimally as scum; I view it as a blunder on his part.

outside that one interaction we talked about that really did look scum/scum the rest not so much

another look and it felt like frogger actually cared about how he appeared to cooldog - he was really uhm, what's the word...formal about who he voted day 2 and took extra care to vote for someone him and cool agreed on

[grapes]

*day 3

[grapes]

oh wait yea it was day 2, day 3 was just really fast lol

also scum were pretty confident farside was a gem it seems, not sure what to gather from that, though

[grapes]

VOTE: xtoxm

say things

[grapes]

Frogger wasn't that way with RR and I think rr is town.

Hmm. Well, we didn't get a whole lot of time to actually see how they interacted with each other. Vote wise anyway. Because the day was really short and RR remedied this by just not voting anyone. And fmpov frogger had to tread lighter with cooldog because he was much more wary of him, than someone like RR who was strongly townreading him.

tldr the situations are just..different

But I do understand the votes on him and this is about as far as my neck is going out for that slot moving forward. I do believe there's much better lynches today, though.

A constantine flip would firm up my reads on a few people. And he could definitely be scum. Hint: reread the end of day 1 with scum raging bull in mind. Points of interest include the flash wagon and bins putting the brakes on it successfully.

Because beer would be more 'informative' for undisclosed reasons.

This also makes trench more town I think, for putting wheels on it. You could sense that the wagon had a lot of potential and it's pretty clear to me bins was trying really hard to kill it. All for a townread that he admitted himself to being based on really shaky reasons and even backed off from in the process.

[grapes]

VOTE: maxwell

here you go mastin

and just so im not absolving myself from all responsibility to this vote, i also think maxwell could be scum, he was super quiet yesterday

[grapes]

Why is this lynch 1000x easier than frogger?

Max what is your read on me?

[grapes]

Still like my X vote. Yea he said some things. Nothing I really loved all that much.

His bottom four reads are the three easiest to lynch people alive and then me. Feel like I'm pretty obvtown at this point.

Don't get how vezok and hermit are so high either. Both above nic and mastin who are also obvtown.

Admittedly I had similar feels about #1517. But I think upon further reflection that post just felt genuine because bins was genuinely triggered. Could come from either alignment pretty easily I feel. /shrug

[grapes]

X do you have access to my hood with flum?

[grapes]

Feel like I'm pretty obvtown at this point.

You're definitely not.

Do go on.

[grapes]

Yes I have access to sub 1 page hood.

So how do you figure that flum was active at all then?

[grapes]

Meh. My point was that maxwell saying that all your slots were super under the radar and didn't post anything substantial at all was actually correct. I definitely take half responsibility for how dead that hood was, though.

I do think

what

was posted by me should be translating into a bit of a better read on me from you. And the fact that it's somehow not is kinda weird.

[grapes]

Right now I feel there is scum between Xtom and Cooldog.

^and Fuzzy

Be a doll and go into detail on these three reads here?

Fuzzy's flavor is the cool kids.

[grapes]

UNVOTE: xtoxm

VOTE: fuzzy

[grapes]

I'm indifferent to flavor claiming today.

[grapes]

yea max is scum

[grapes]

Oh yeaaaaaa marquis was a conditional rolecop.

Weird.

[grapes]

Because it's (1) made up entirely of conftown (no, seriously, it is!), (2) who the majority of gained credibility by also pushing Fro99er, (3) and have made a good case against him.

I'd like to point out, though, that in spite of being "easier", it still hasn't actually

happened

yet. And not because we're taking our time; it's because there's resistance and counter-wagon attempts. It's just that scum counterwagons on town aren't going to work since, again, this is an L-2 wagon made up of people who're conftown.

Either scum are in the worst position imaginable and are just all rolling over, they're probably bussing like crazy....or fuzzy is the counter wagon to max? Those are all still possibilities here.

I'm not at the level of certainty of calling the wagon conftown driven... Buuuut I'm happy to ride this out because max is scum and with how little avenues scum have left to take I think yea, there could easily be bussing going on. Or I could be wrong on X, and the extreme paranoia I'm having about trench warfare could be misplaced.

Maybe the game really is THAT easy and pretty much solved. I dunno. Hope it is.

[grapes]

Could you quickly run through why you choose each of those targets, max?

[grapes]

who isn't currently sure of who they're aligning with?

[grapes]

@varsoon

please prod coodog if you haven't already, thanks!

[grapes]

I'd rather lynch fuzzy based on flavor. Watermelon steven is a believable claim. Three people are not.

This needs to stop. UNVOTE: fuzzy

VOTE: vezokpiraka

[grapes]

I guess it is possible for Fuzzy and Maxwell to both be scum

I'd ask what changed besides the inevitableness of maxwells position that made you take the jump in your read on him between your last string of posts until now.

But you'd probably just say 'gut' again..

[grapes]

yup

you don't think it's sketchy at all how loud he's been about the game being breakable by flavor(which it isn't) while having a role that fits this invisible criteria for what 'town flavor' is. It just seems contradictory now after pushing so hard for a beer lynch, who was confirmed to him to be lars. Which I'm assuming also fits the criteria I.E. isn't just straight up big bad villain or whatever.

[grapes]

yeah... this game still exists. Give me some time, or if someone gives me an update...

we lynched scum

the nk was our day vig who, if given another shot, probably blasts you, with a side of trench warfare

about it really

[grapes]

The only place where I could seeing you potentially getting confused would be if I made a plain unvote tag somewhere. Which takes off all my previous votes at once.

[grapes]

They are accurate to my knowledge. And that's perfectly fine.

[grapes]

yea his beer push did come before any scumflips so you're right cerb it is more forgivable

[grapes]

Also Grapes ....Vezo is conftown please get off of him. He has been conf by Beer

lol

[grapes]

You guys see post 3631? That's conftown. Vezo was not conftown.

Fuzzy and cooldog are the lynches today imo.

Cage I owe you a vote.

[grapes]

constantine was in both frogger and max's lynchpools and max's not just yesterday but like, consistently since day 1

[grapes]

I meant scum who didn't do anything last night,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that's assuming NC was targeted by a town vig and not by scum.

See, this is why you're scum. This is blatantly fake since there is no world in which anyone could possibly consider Nic being vigged. That you're saying it is just an attempt to fake not knowing what's going on behind the scenes.

No it's pretty clear fuzzy genuinely has no idea what's going on at all.

I don't see how you can attribute scum motive to that.

I am thinking CoolDog or Hermit should be lynched today. They are both on the suspicious list of many people. RR isn't vouching for them and they haven't been driving forces. Hermit has points that a scumflip on him clears Fuzzy to me. CoolDog having massive apathy as we are winning isn't good either.

I also find it likely scum don't have daychat RR. I don't see why they'd still push me as a mislynch if they did.

Not feeling hermit today. Cooldog maybe?

Why does being on a lot of peoples scum lists make them a good lynch exactly?

Why does RR not vouching for them make them scum?

How does hermitscum clear fuzzy? Literally everyone alive has called fuzzy scum at least some part of the game.

Whether we're winning or not, how is apathy alignment indicative? Has cooldog not been apathetic since long before we've started rolling scum over?

I want to massclaim now.Flavor and role.

Why?

Grapes, I know why he wants to be targeted. Can you give me a non obvious hint about the reason he gave you?

He's an attention whore.

I was a big reason Maxwell got lynched. I thought both were scum after awhile and made sure Maxwell got lynched.

lol

Also, to everyone: What would be your first assumption if someone displayed knowledge of an aspect of another players role which they had no way of knowing? There is no combination of alliance meetings by which said knowledge could have reached the player, and the information has absolutely not been shared in this thread.

-Cerb

Well I'd assume 1 of the two players were scum. And lynch whichever is claiming something less elegant I guess?

[grapes]

Yea you're right. I just misread the question completely I think. lol

Like, I just always assume as an uninvolved third party that if I'm being brought info it's either to push a lynch or stop a lynch. If it's dropped unconsciously it needs to be extremely cut and dry for it to mean much. Legit scumslips are pretty rare.

@cerb

[grapes]

I'd say so yea.

[grapes]

Why do scum kill a watcher/double-voter over a cop?

[grapes]

Why do scum kill a watcher/double-voter over a cop?

Well one reason could be that they did it to kill two near confirmed townies who will never get lynched instead of a slot which has had some suspicion on it. Also I still had a watch to use, while TW is out of shots.

...I didn't realize they claimed xshot. Even then at least if I'm scum I kill it anyway because taking xshot claims at face value is naive and can bite you in the ass. It's almost a cliche thing to do these days because cops obviously don't want to get killed and in TW's case probably wanted an excuse to be alive.

And yes they've been scummy as fuck for a while now but you normally don't lynch cops for a few days and try to get a couple clears or w/e. So even that's kinda meh.

Trench claiming to somehow know sonic's

exact

role based on a crumb is pretty stretchy. Like, believable I guess if them and sonic are like telepathic or soul sisters or something.

The buddy I could make a case for either X or sonic honestly. But we've got enough wiggle room to purge all three so not too worried about it.

Sonic if you are scum bro, like, you had me fooled.

But like, you're a gladiator presumably and were the ultimate decider of our lynch today, so why until you get called out have you been all ghosty and vagueish. And then proceed to spend all your energy getting into a semantics debacle with conftown?

Reminds me of your hash out with beer honestly.

[grapes]

I don't like your turnaround on fuzzy today either. Could you go more into that please? Because it feels scum motivated. Or at the very least makes your previous pushes feel fake.

[grapes]

scum on the day 1 wagon is sonic or xtoxm

[grapes]

In light of RR's case I am inquiring into sonic further as seen this page.

Sonic scum really depends on how much trench warfare bullshitted about their role.

There are things about sonic that I don't like but have been forgiving about because of how convincing his bus on frogger would be if he's scum. Like his gladiate the end of day 1 being the fakest shit ever.

The turnaround on fuzzy after he realized he could milk him for more shots. If you genuinely think somebody is scum then you don't just up and 180 on them because you've suddenly figured out you can use them. That's not a town mindset imo.

[grapes]

hey cerb wasn't the strongman a finale only ability?

[grapes]

tso is it a 4 or 5 man team?

[grapes]

okay so the thread lock threw me off

what are we waiting on exactly? just alliances and stuff?

[grapes]

nice

[grapes]

hey xtox we should ally dude

[grapes]

Don't see what's the hurry? Would rather hear things from the replacement at any rate.

[grapes]

I, for one, am getting a bit tired of these autopilot days we've been having. And only really think the gladiate is practical in the sense that it proves sonic can in fact gladiate. That's about it, so. Just my 2 cents.

[grapes]

VOTE: sonic x

Here's my thought process. If his gladiate was actually intended to be used on day 1 and wasn't just a scumbag chilling around close to deadline to use it on a buddy after my hammer to obviously milk towncred, then why at this late stage in the game has he been so passive about using it?

Also Titus couldn't have rolecopped him because she is confirmed to have rolecopped mastin/xtoxm so her knowing unknown parts of his role looks a lot like buddies and all that jazz.

Lynch it to the ground!

I'm cool with a mass claim or whatever if that's what we're down to do.

Also the NK is so obviously done for wifom it's not even funny. So sonic asking about it just screams scum fishing for town to be all like "oh yea pfft why would sonic NK farside she was like defending him and stuff xD"

lol

[grapes]

Also holy shit I didn't even realize NIC CAGE FUCKING CAME BACK TO THE GAME FULLY FUNCTIONING WTF NOW WE HAVE 2 LITERAL CONFTOWN AND 2 IMPLICIT CONFTOWN.

-Cerb

nice

[grapes]

nice try but you never claimed anything about a refiller, which is the thing titus is alluding to

mastin can confirm

[grapes]

on my phone so im not even gonna check the alliance but he definitely didn't full claim

or rather, claimed nothing that would give me knowledge that he would need a refill, something like xshot or whatever

also sonic fuck off for outing me

incorrectly as well for some reason

[grapes]

what?
pedit @4415

[grapes]

lmao

[grapes]

fuzzy would your lie detector work on 9?

just curious

otherwise im not seeing the practicality of a lie detector that can't confirm alignment/roles or anything and feel like you're probs bullshitting us.

[grapes]

hey nic we should fusion and stuff

because that way we can know if it's lylo or not tomorrow

[grapes]

hey mastin and xtox you guys should totally flavor claim if you haven't already

[grapes]

that's gotta be like, the shittiest vote ive seen all game

[grapes]

yea you don't get to talk shit about my play this game mate, at least i haven't hard defended obvscum

[grapes]

i dunno man talk to me because this push from you just kinda feels lackadaisical - like that assessment of me couldn't have come from someone who spent more than a 10 second skim of my iso

like i thought this thing was pretty much wrapped up but i guess not

should be fuzzy today i think because i don't want him touching lylo if it comes to that

and your towncase on him is unimpressive, for one, the refill thing not working on scumbuddies or whatever could of been exactly what scum wanted us to think

and scum pushing fuzzy is sorta meh as well because we already know scum were bussing like crazy from jump

and lord knows i want out of this game but when i flip town where do you go? constantine isn't a GF, pretty sure of that

[grapes]

honestly the first thing that popped into my head when i saw sonics rolecard was oh shit guess this makes fuzzy town, then i was like 'wait a second' you know that kinda feeling and sorta forgot about it

all im saying is that using that as a basis to sort fuzzy either way is something im not really down for

and im pretty far from sure he's the last scum, if that wasn't obvious but he makes a lot more sense than everybody else

i wouldn't mind escaping from this game because we've sorta hit a lull, it's been on autopilot for almost a month now and im pretty busy with RL shit at the moment as well(which sorta hit me out of nowhere) and because of my role i don't feel like keeping me around for lylo is all that good of an idea - like i get it - you don't need to half ass a scumcase on me that i can tell you don't actually really believe for a second yourself, all you gotta say is, grapes is a miller, should probably lynch that at some point

even though obviously fake-claiming miller and proceeding to bus half my scumteam consistently throughout the game is something I'd never do in a million years

and im mofucking AMETHYST, like, im standing right next to you in the banner of the OP for fucks sake

but nah pet centipeetle that dude is 100% town yo, my setup specs is tight

[grapes]

so it's probably not mastin - i feel like mastin's pushes on max and frogger were pretty real and while not having a vote does make it 'easier' to bus in a sense it sorta seems all around kinda not necessary

the only thing giving me pause there is her reluctance to flavor claim and just plopping a vote on me but if RR knows her flavor and doesn't have cause for alarm then that's fair enough i guess

cooldog actually i feel like was a cop (because i remember him quoting my miller claim and saying 'fuck this game') which, felt kinda like a crumb to me, i dunno, it does feel like a lot of cops for one setup but ive seen it before

the janitor on klingon is weird and does give me some pause but, trench's push on that slot felt super weird day 2 and kinda unneccesary as a bus

so constantine is probably town cuz im pretty sure there's no godfather, it's been established varsoon hates those anyway

xtoxm could be some weird third party thing and that'd be my next choice but i dunno my gut day 1 told me flum was town but the coasting does kinda sorta add up as a survivor kinda role or even an ability copier of some kinda(just seems weird for mastin and him to have such similar roles) and also sorta explains why RR is still alive right now because his setup spec is what's sorta keeping him alive among other things

im town and i don't think my lynch is all that prudent today

im pretty sure fuzzy is bullshitting about this lie detector thing, because it's like the second day in a row now that he just miraculously didn't get a chance to use it for some reason and i can almost see him somehow 'forgetting' to ally again or some bullshit the next day and we're either right back to square one with me dead(which i don't really care either way) and you guys just lynching fuzzy anyway

i dunno, i just don't really trust him getting to lylo either way

pretty sure we win if we chain lynch fuzzy and xtoxm fwiw

[grapes]

VOTE: fuzzy x2

[grapes]

Good game everybody.

Oh yea and before I forget. When conftown is calling the last two people in your lynchpool 100% town, you kinda panic. Like, I figured it was easier just to flip a coin rather than talk you off of your reasoning for townreading fuzzy and xtoxm, because you wouldn't have listened anyway. (and evidently never did) If my reads were shit this game I probably woulda been like whatever but I'd been pretty on point, so.

Plus cage was giving me the go ahead :p. And you even asked 'if you think he's the last scum why didn't you hammer him' like, you can't ask me that, and then turn around and point the figure at me after I do it.

[grapes]

i felt like xtoxm's vote on hermit after yall unvoted was pretty scum motivated especially with supersaint paranoia swimming around and really liked when hermit called that out

hermit didn't put up all that bad of a fight in comparison to some of the games ive read that he was in

[grapes]

I hope you read our hydra PT, Grapes. You'll find that I was initially over the top angry with you, but then later you'll see us blaming ourselves and basically saying that if the game went to scum it would be because of a huge error we made.

It's cool I completely understand why. And yea I'll check it out.

Waay more interested in that scum topic, though. :p

[grapes]

Also, thanks for modding varsoon! Could tell you put a shitton of work into this.