STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Cerberus v666]

Vezok: Can your double vote be split up?
Grapes: Can your double vote be consolidated?
Either way, please demonstrate what your response is true with an attempt to perform the vote change I've asked if you are capable of performing.

For science.
-Cerb

[Cerberus v666]

The initial conversation, with the exception of drixx, was all quite friendly. It was only after bins spoke and mentioned that using their other power would be anti town, and so they wouldn't use it, that Titus started to lean on the slot. The one indicating they had a day vig....wasn't even in the conversation, and didn't threaten him with it until he threatened us. Meh. I guess it's all kinda hard to parse if you can't read the flow yourself. And yes, you and I had similar thoughts about named voting on the basis of a case someone else made.

[Cerberus v666]

I am gem. Not all gems get special fusion abilities.

Also, what did I not read?

Titus

To be clear, I have fusion OR ally ability. Not fusion only.

@Cerb: This is what I was talking about

Hmm. I don't think the fusion or ally ability thing is odd, I have some evidence that it's happened in at least one other case(arguably, two other cases). What is odd to me though is that TW specifically claimed that on the 2nd, and then in our PT we had, on the 7th they had to go reread their role pm to clarify that they had a power that was linked fusion/alliance specific. You'd think they'd remember that after specifically pointing it out as a defense of someone a few days earlier.

-Cerb

[Cerberus v666]

No, klingon, we will be with you.
Nic and grapes
Klingon us
Fuzzy, xtoxm, mastin, and constantine...I don't know.

[Cerberus v666]

Fuzzy+constantine? Xtoxm+mastin?

[Cerberus v666]

That was me btw.

[Cerberus v666]

No, I'm not a sore loser. I hate the simple fact that I've wasted a year on this site, and have yet to actually see how ANYONE approaches the game as scum. I enjoyed playing with the people, within the confines of the game, but I loathe your decision to share x personal facts within the pt, such that othersw will be denied access to it on that basis, when THERE ARE AN INCREDIBLY LARGE NUMBER OF WAYS FOR YOU TO TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT PERSONAL STUFF WITHOUT FUCKING WITH MY GROWTH AS A PLAYER.

That's all. good job otherwise.

Oh, and titus, it's really sucky that this was a perfect opportunity for you to actually discuss your vca method with us but it was foiled by getting the wrong role..

[Cerberus v666]

Well, whether or I'm understanding or not, you won't change your decision...but by being understanding, I display tacit approval of that decision, which isn't the case, so no, I'm not going to be understanding. Because I like Varsoon though, I won't say more about it, and will instead go and do what ika suggested and go to the appropriate forum for mafia discussion and see about having all games have mandatory pt releases, or at least having a tag when the game is made of mandatory pt release or not, so I can only join the games where this won't happen to me.

[Cerberus v666]

Sure, those aren valid points, titus, but every single one of your roles was extremely strong. Seems like a nightmare to balance, really.

Pedit: it was 99% the fact that you gave me links showing how sonics accusations were BS. I didn't even read the links, the simple fact that you gave them to me was meaningful..:p

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, so, my thoughts.

1) Drixx is right. Setting our slot up to be killed on N3 or N4 extremely consistently is pretty shitty. I don't think it's quite as bad as Drixx thinks it is, but it certainly isn't okay to get a slot that just dies.

2) Xtoxm, why didn't you just hammer? Were you afraid of some vengeful/supersaint variant, or were you afraid you'd be unable to get the kill off tonight? Drixx and I had a post read to make in our neighborhood to test you(confirming that we protected, and implying that we had a shot left), but before we ended up getting together to make sure it said what we wanted it to say(cause damnit I had to play DnD last night instead of working on that post with Drixx), you had voted. The first draft of that post is in our PT, on the last page, between the walls of text from my irc chats with Drixx about the game.

3) The game was lost when grapes hammered fuzzy in an extremely scummy fashion. At the moment he got hammered, we had already cleared him, like 90%, and were working to reconcile why he had seemed to forget that his lie detect power, as claimed to us in our PT, didn't work unless he was allied with the target of it. If fuzzy hadn't died, xtoxm was basically obligated to kill fuzzy that night(out of paranoia, at least, that he had lied about how his lie detect worked and he could catch xtoxm). Even if we had been swayed on fuzzy, and ended up lynching him anyways, we would have had enough time to plan our alliances, and then we would have realized it was STUPID to ally klingon that night, when we needed to ensure we had an alliance the next day so we could bodyguard two nights in a row.

The above, btw, is why I wouldn't say I'm a sore loser(beyond my knowledge of my own personality). I know exactly where and how the game was lost, and I know the part I had in it. If anybody does bother reading all the stuff drixx and I wrote, I even say it in there that if we lose, it's 100% because of drixx and myself. Even with grapes hammer, we still could have changed who we were allying that night to mastin in our pt, or to xtoxm(who would have been kinda obligated to ally us), and that would have put us in a position to give the town the chance to use nic cages watching ability one more time, plus keeping town from dying, so we could have easily confirmed who the last scum was.

[Cerberus v666]

I am glad the game made it to a lylo situation, honestly.

This is generally a pretty good indication of balance.

@Cerb, I was just worried about you and your protection for the coming night phase (that i'm glad wasn't needed in the end). Hermit was obviously not a fucking supersaint and I was beginning to build up annoyance that I would be caught for the wrong reason. You really seemed too confident today, and voted far more quickly than what i'd expect from you in a lylo situation, so I thought you had means to block my night kill again for a 3p lylo.

Ugh. Go read that post in our PT when Varsoon makes it available, please. The entire point of it was to determine if you were waiting to hammer because you were afraid we'd protect, and if you were still wary about voting after we made it, we'd know you were scum.

pedit: We knew supersaint was a stretch, but the hesitance to hammer, or even just vote, was EXTREMELY confusing, given that it was known by xtoxm that we'd be voting for constantine. We'd make that clear in the PT.

peditx2!: Constantine, it's a fundamental difference in play styles. Gut doesn't mean anything to me. Like, gut means so little to me that I'm inclined to think you're an idiot if it's the reason you give for anything, without any backing. It means a bit more to Drixx, but that's because he views it as a precursor to conscious deduction. Seriously, all you had to do was do what we asked, and we would have thought about it. You gave us no reason to think that you weren't a clever scum godfather killing the cop because, as cleared scum, there's no reason for you to kill the cop.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and xtoxm, we voted so fast because we knew we were way more active in the game than anyone else currently posting, and three votes were needed for a lynch. It was almost imaginable that two votes would go down on constantine without us having the opportunity to unvote if we wanted to. Plus, ya know, constantine did as little to help town as you did.

Like, constantine, i asked you repeatedly to invade mastin, so we could guarantee she'd hvae a vote, and you NEVER did it. That by itself would have been strong evidence for you as town, if you had just done it so we didn't need to chain ourselves to her slot to make sure she could vote.

Constantine: Please stop referring to "the more experienced players." Just...don't. The more experienced players, who rely on gut, are idiots for doing so, in my opinion. Acting as though their choice to play badly, or at least lazily(in my opinion), makes you right, is absurd.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, the logic I'm talking about, isn't even related to NKA/NAA or VCA...it's related to does this thing someone said in post 3735 line up with their expressed beliefs or actions taken in post 2530. If yes, okay, cool. If no, WHY NOT? is there something in the middle there justifying said stance change? if there isn't, why not? Press them on it, tell me why you did this thing. Okay, I have a reason, does that reason actually make sense for a town player? How about a scum player? Does it ring true?

It's not just...mechanical analysis. It's watching play and stances and actions to find inconsistencies.

pedit: Exactly what Titus said.

[Cerberus v666]

People are REALLY fucking smart...and they frequently don't rea

[Cerberus v666]

People are REALLY fucking smart...and they frequently don't realize exactly how smart they are. Our subconscious is trained to watch for patterns, and things that don't FIT patterns. Gut is when something doesn't match the expected pattern, but you don't actually know what made it not match. If you're good enough, and dedicated enough, you will ALWAYS be able to go back and logically identify WHAT exactly caused that ping.

pedit: grapes, we asked you that because we were curious what you'd say. It wasn't encouragement, if it was, we would have asked for you to vote him.

About the hermit WotC thing: It's not because I can't read him, I don't care about that. it's because he doesn't contribute to the game. It isn't fun to play the game with people who don't talk.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and yes, titus, nothing to apologize for about your game plan revolving around buddying with us, simply because with the knowledge you had, there were two options: 1) Kill us because you know varsoons mod meta, as it were, means he's inclined to make powerful "main character" roles, 2)buddy us and use that to help sculpt an endgame where you'd know how we'd act.

[Cerberus v666]

i felt like xtoxm's vote on hermit after yall unvoted was pretty scum motivated especially with supersaint paranoia swimming around and really liked when hermit called that out

hermit didn't put up all that bad of a fight in comparison to some of the games ive read that he was in

Absolutely. His vote was, in retrospect, extremely scum motivated, and I really really wish Drixx and I had made the post we had planned last night. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have voted after reading it(given that he can count, and it stated a bodyguard cap of 2 shots, instead of 1), or at least, he would have tried hard enough to figure out something to do other than voting that we would have been able to catch him from the hesitance.

All hypothetical of course, maybe he would have read it and instantly realized what we were trying to do and just said okay, I'll hammer, go vote.

[Cerberus v666]

Drixx: Nope, i'm taking the blame here for allying the wrong person. I'm the one who made the post hammer posts abouta lliances on that day.

[Cerberus v666]

Good job getting the win xtom. I was rooting specifically for you.
Fantastic game you made Varsoon. The fact that such a crazy power role heavy game made it to lylo is impressive.
Still probably not signing up for a large game again though. Lol. Sticking with the shorter ones. Thanks to Xtom for filling in.

When Rational caught a link between Sonic and Titus I was like "ooohhhh crap" and truly thought town had it won at that point.

We did! Until we screwed up. Repeatedly. In a few different ways. By a few different people. Like, it took a parade of mistakes for us to lose after lynching scum four times in a row.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and titus, you're wrong about ways in which we survive. Grapes roleblock didn't block kills. The ONLY protection we had in the game was our own bulletproof, and the mass commute on the season finale, which required that we trust that player and choose to let him into our large pt on the finale. Plus, you could have simply jailkept us ALL GAME LONG and neutered us that way. You didn't even need to know what we did, all you had to know was that you'd kept us from doing it.

BTW, Varsoon, that's the real objection to scum knowledge of our role that early. They had a role specifically designed to make us just an IC for the entire game, with no limitations at all. That sucks man.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, so we only had a total of 4 bodyguards we could have used this game, and we had one doc save from Titus(which we did end up wasting on you. ). We wased one bodyguard by not having an alliance mate, so we only bodyguarded 3 times.

I'd need to double check what the actions were though, beyond bodyguarding mastin last night.

[Cerberus v666]

OH, and about the whole we'll definitely claim thing: When you're the IC, and very confident in your own ability to put things together, and have a way to get people to claim to you 100% honestly in private, there's no reason to claim. Town didn't need to know what we could do. Scum DEFINITELY didn't need to know wha we could do. And since we were an IC, everyone should have been telling us all the information they had in private whenever possible, so any strong interactions we could have noted and taken advantage of without the need for us claiming until then.

[Cerberus v666]

I'll edit it in.

OH, as a note, Jasper's jailkeeping ability would not have an effect on Steven. I should have had that in my mod notes. Hm.

I think you played well, though, Cerb & Drixx

Hmm. Well, okay, I don't really know how you could have communicated that interaction to us. I guess we should have asked you....because killing us is one thing, but making our role just not do anything all game long is another.

[Cerberus v666]

Similarly, varsoon, would Peridots extra human kill have been able to work on Steven?

[Cerberus v666]

Idk grapes, we...umm...have A LOT of content in that pt.

[Cerberus v666]

So, fun fact, after removing the tags for timestamps and who's saying what, and saying -2k words for the headers that show up in mafiascum...our 3 page PT containes 77 thousand words.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb: Yes, it would.
I should have written that Steven counts as a human but may also fuse with Gems and any attempt to rolecop/flavorcop him will return both human and gem.
Eccch


@grapes: <3 Thanks for playing! This game has consumed so much of my time over the year. I just hope everyone had fun c:

Hmm. Interesting. Alright. I don't know how that would have changed how we approached stuff.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, also, thanks Titus, for your pm about discussing the game. The offer is appreciated.

Fuzzy: At the end of the day you got lynched, we were kinda jerking you around, testing you to see if you would remember that your power required that you be allied. Your certainty that you would be able to lie detect xtoxm that night was the only thing stopping us from being 100% certain you were town, but we were pretty damn sure. Anyways, sorry about that. It wasn't a very nice thing to do, and normally I would have just pointed out that you had told us your power required that you be allied.

Varsoon: Mass PM about the fact that the game ended varsoon! I want to see more people in here talking about this game!

[Cerberus v666]

We had limited shots. We had 2 shot BP, and 1 shot bodyguard, which refilled on season finales. We had used our bodyguard the night before, to protect Mastin, and were thus out of shots of our bodyguard power.

We planned on making this post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7247143 , or something very similar though, to test xtoxm on whether or not he was reluctant to hammer because of that fear of us being able to protect again. Unfortunately, neither of us took the initiative in just going ahead and posting it before xtoxm made a decision.

[Cerberus v666]

Sorry for fake crumbing.
Lolllll.

I think the biggest mistake made this game by town was assuming that one could understand the nuances of a setup designed by Varsoon, which is really just a solid compliment to Varsoon as a mod in general.
Kudos man. I hope my life becomes less shitty and busy sometime in the future so I can play in more of your setups and hopefully not die instantly or lurk out <3

Yeah, cheetory, man. as lovers, and a rolecop, I wanted to slap you for making it so obvious you were garnet...right after I slapped myself for not noticing it and taking steps to protect you N1.

[Cerberus v666]

He could just be creative.
We can fight with our fists postgame when Varsoon's setup proves that true grace can be accomplished while also breaking expectations as I'm sure it will. ;D

Are you saying this was an accidental soft of Garnet?

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, it only makes sense if you've watched the show, so, once I'd watched the show, and was rereading some of the game, I was like OMG so obvious if I had watched the show I would have known to protect you!

pedit: D'ohh. :p I don't either, and I don't look for them, but it was so friggin obvious as someone who had JUST watched the whole show. When taken with the fuse thing at least.

[Cerberus v666]

I feel like town did okay this game, but I feel like we misutilized our powers a lot. Like, just some things just weren't being used when they should have been, from what people were telling me, and based on when people did and didn' thave alliances...just...man. So many missed opportunities.

[Cerberus v666]

Well, it didn't matter much after you and Jaspar died. I don't know though, I was in a unique position of knowing a lot more about the game than most other players did, so maybe the feeling I have that everybody's races were outed pretty early on is wrong.

[Cerberus v666]

Nice job in the dead thread Skybird. I'm currently reading through it, and your reads are kicking ass. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

OMG I JUST GOT THE PART WHERE XTOXM ALMOST FRIGGIN SHOT US INSTEAD OF NIC CAGE ON THE NIGHT HE KILLED HIM! OMG. THAT WOULD HAVE WON THE GAME!

Damn.

[Cerberus v666]

Alright done with the dead thread. I really want people to read the last day or so of our chat and see what we were doing. We were definitely suspicious of xtoxm...but saw more reason to be suspicious of constantine because he just wasn't putting any effort in to help us.

[Cerberus v666]

Yes, but fuzzy had clearly displayed a willingness to lie. THere was no guarantee that what fuzzy had said his powers limitations were was actually true. Especially since he contradicted his powers limits in thread.

[Cerberus v666]

Xtoxm

I'm expecting people to realize sooner than later that my meta is unconventional.
A lot of players have expressed frustration at their inability to read me. Burn it with fire! <--- That kind of thing.

If you want someone to not lurk though, that isn't me. I have to lurk given how long the time interval is between day and night.

i can read you pretty easily, but every single time i have to save your ass and call you town and defend you...

or when im scum, you're a free kill

you're basically an asset to the opposing faction every time you play, and a liability, and you should change that.

[Cerberus v666]

I think my cop play through people off bc it was not at all like my normal town game. I was not sure how to play the role which should be obvious to most anyone

He would of had to kill me at some point given there was a good chance of fake claiming a lie on him. Mad credit to the scum who played awesomely ....

I don't think I contradicted myself,,,,, I guess I might of but not on purpose,,,I was pretty sure of how my ability work since I asked Vasoon about ( several times)

You said that you would lie detect xtoxm that night, while having previous claimed that you had to be allied to people to lie detect them. So, there was a contradiction there.

[Cerberus v666]

fuzzy's lie detect would never have been able to work, because by the time you could set that up, it was lylo. i noted as such in the dead thread

We knew we could protect ourselves and someone else two nights in a row.

[Cerberus v666]

If we hadn't picked klingon as our ally, we would have protected nic that night(in our PT you can see me bitching endlessly about screwing up the ally and how that made us unable to protect nic when we really needed to protect him, before he died, because I really wanted to protect him that night). We may have missed the save on the next night though.

Obviously Town As Fuck

[Cerberus v666]

drixx, go on ahead and add more to the nomination if i've missed out anything in my (should be pretty comprehensive) post. you're pretty articulate, so I guess you can add stuff if you can?

3rd'd the nom. but I didn't have much more to say. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

i tried reading the hydra pt and i think i will do it later maybe

Heh. Our words have defeated the first challenger!

[Cerberus v666]

where can we get more reasonably rational goodness?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=63416

Drixx and I are hydraing here. BPC played with us on our site of origin, and this is the first time I at least have seen him sign up for a large theme(which is pretty much all I plan on playing(I guess I'll play small themes too maybe, but I like large games except when people get sick of the game and become apathetic and stop playing)), so yeah, gonna have some fun with our homie!

[Cerberus v666]

ika's in the game and titus doesnt like playing with him

and the game sounds bastard, and i dont like that, so we might be sitting that one out

ika and mollie vote and tunnel me day 1 in every single fucking game. I won't in to another game with them. It's like being hated.

Totally understood. I saw that myself when I was prepping to hopefully replace in to <ongoing>.

Thank you Titus, so was yours. Drixx is kicking himself because he basically called out every scum play that was made, but he wasn't always 100% that that was actually what was going on. It was more like, hey, why do you think this happened? Oh, it could be because of x y z, and the set of options ALWAYS included why it was being done by scum, from what we can tell with what we have to read here.

Also, I like being scum. Being scum is fun. You get to plot. I approve of a scum team with all of us on it. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

This is pretty irritating though,actually. I'm 0/3 on this site. All relatively late game losses, but damnit. Not cool.

[Cerberus v666]

Can I put an asterisk next to two of those losses, because constantine replaced in and was in the lylo? <3 constantine, I like you when you post, but when you don't post it makes me sad and wish you weren't even in the game. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. That's not good. I was going for "change the subject", but changing the subject towards bashing someone isn't cool. Man, I want Maxwell to come weigh in on the game, they had a lot to say in the game. I would much appreciate hearing whatever they have to say about things. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb, because people think differently than we do doesn't excuse us for mislynching them.

Of course it doesn't, that was more tongue in cheek than anything. This game is gonna leave a slightly sour taste for us though because we could have done more, and we didn't. I fully accept responsibility for the outcome here.

Cerb, Drixx, Sonic, us four in our hydras in the next large theme that comes up with a wotc procedure?

Probably? I'm down to one game as just me, and am signed up for one hydra with drixx. If the game that's just me ends, then sure. I neglected other games trying to figure this one out this time, and I don't like feeling lost because I didn't pay enough attention to the game.

<3
Thanks for the 'noms.
I'll definitely let everyone know when Steven Universe Mafia 2 rolls around.
I'll also likely PM you guys when Varsoon Mafia 2 and Parasyte Mafia go into signups, if that's cool.
This game was a blast to watch, and I'm really happy the mechanics worked out.

You deserve the noms, and I'll be very upset with you if I'm not in every game you mod from now on.

[Cerberus v666]

So, here's the real question:

Should Parasyte Mafia feature the Alliance mechanic?

If it makes sense. *shrug*

And yeah, I guess Parasyte is the next thing for me to watch.

[Cerberus v666]

Metal and I have worked with Varsoon to scrub the PT. to those who thought I wasn't open to that and was being selfish - you can apologize for your language. Especially cerb who thought I wasn't open to reconsidering (FWIW I always wanted it open, just didn't know it was possible to scrub the personal stuff. I think my record for always having my scum PT released speaks for itself)

I am a pacifist at heart and only like making people happy. Seriously.

And if it's that important that you're willing to whine and curse at me over a game, I'm not so sure I want to play you.

People always forget someone is on the other side of the screen.

I'm going to quote here the message I sent Varsoon about it.

Sorry about blowing up a bit about the scum PT thing. It wasn't a real emotional blow up(I don't do those), it was more intended to express how important this subject is to me, and how aggravating I find it. I'm the kind of person who has something irritating happen, and crafts a faux emotional post, to make it obvious that I find it irritating, but i don't really feel nearly the level of emotion that I make it sound like I felt.

Also, pre-in me for all of your upcoming games k? Seriously, I love the flavor work you put in to everything, and I've wanted an excuse to watch parasyte.

I feel language is a tool. If I used strong kanguage, it was purely to communicate the significance of an issue to me in terms I was certain everyone would understand. It was not intended to be to be taken personally. In hindsight, I almost certainly shouldn't have specifically told the scum team to "fuck off"(I think that's what I said), but I think the rest of it was exactly what I intended for it to be.

For the record, the frustration had very little to do with you, other than that you displayed the same entitled attitude about it that everyone else who wanted a scum pt kept private displayed, the same sense of "Yes, this thing I said is important enough that I'm going to decrease the enjoyment of the 15 people who played this game, lost, and I don't care that they might like to have a better idea of why they lost." That's clearly not how you felt, but it was certainly what you projected.

Anyways, I understand why you were upset. It sucks to be a positive person, and have people assume you have negative intentions about anything. For future reference though, because I sincerely hope this doesn't make you not want to play with me....I care about little more than approaching things in a fashion that won't cause distress to anyone. I simply underestimated how much people in this situation would care, because, well, they usually don't, and it takes the harsh language just to get a non dismissive conversation going.

[Cerberus v666]

With regards to the game related stuff: Vezok was saying light prism would be scum, so it would have only reinforced his thoughts. With Mastin, it didn't actually appear to do ANYTHING to make her reconsider things. Drixx and I brought the fact that being wrong in the logical path you use to reach a conclusion the correct conclusions isn't the same as being completrly right to her, and she didn't seem to care. Was still insistent that she caught you good, even though she was wrong about why she caught you, and didn't say anything further about it, even after doing A LOT of analysis to show us that sonic had to be town, and fuzzy had to be scum, contrary to what we were thinking. She did a damn good job on Maxwell though.

I think you revealing a power in that post rather than self hammering could have been effective, but I also feel it would have been an uphill battle and just ended in you being lynched anyways.

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm, you're right. At first he was incredulous, because it wasn't even in the show, but for some reason he didn't think it was a fake claim(even though he DID think rose quartz was a fake claim, and she has more screentime in the show than the light prism does...). SO yeah, I think I thought he disliked both claims, and he did at one point, but somehow decided that because it was outside the scope of his knowledge, it meant it was a legit claim(which it was, just not a town one).

[Cerberus v666]

Fro99er, did the posts you linked me to actually show that sonics case on you was trash? Like I said before, I didn't actually read them, but the fact that you gave me ammunition to use if I found out there was any truth to what he was saying was a point in your favor.

[Cerberus v666]

K. Just wondering if not actually reading it hurt me or not. :p

[Cerberus v666]

I dunno which one you mean, I'm guessing RR, but I'll do both.

I felt like Sonic's criticism of Beer's attack on them was legitimate, and that was that they were basically just saying "this post is bad" with a lot more words. I felt like that style, whatever they called it, deep analysis or something, was basically just an excuse to seem like they were doing something. I believe vezok, and I think that pawtucket's failure to express any reads in his neighborhood is extremely suspicious, since that's a pretty low pressure environment.

For RR I am suspicious, but I can't really tell what's going on there. I mean your 899 hit the nail on the head, how likely is it that both heads have the exact same playstyle for this game? It's super weird. And trench is on their side, which bothers me. I'm open to voting them I guess, but I'm just so shaky on that read. They could be legit. I feel like I ought to see more.

p-edit: directed at grapes

This is interesting. I had actually missed the part in 899 talking about the similarity in style between Drixx and myself, and the reference to ego, so I'll take a moment to address it now since you drew my attention to it(thank you).

I am terrible at Day 1. Everything that everyone jumps at and tries to lynch people over reads like nonsense to me, and it all feels incredibly arbitrary.

HOWEVER(and here is where the ego comes in) I KNOW that, if placed in a room with a random assortment of people, it is highly unlikely that they'll be better at a given intellectual pursuit than I am. What does this lead me to conclude? That if I think I'm fucking terrible at Day 1, most other people must be EVEN WORSE and just too blinded by their hubris to realize it. So, grapes was half right. There's ego involved, but it's not ego in thinking I'm actually good at this game. It's ego in thinking that if I'm this bad, how can the rest of you possibly be significantly better?

The above is the foundation of both my dislike for day 1, and my general lack of scum reads on said day. It's not that I/we don't have scum reads and leans we've discussed and the reasons behind them, it's that(in my case at least) I don't view the evidence as strong enough to present a case, regardless of how strongly I might feel someone is probably scum.

I hesitate to speak for Drixx, but I'm fairly certain he feels much the same way I do about the arbitrary nature of D1 reads and lynches. He's also better at this than I am, generally(he does focus a bit much on the wrong things sometimes). And we also both started out playing on the same site, with the same meta, so it shouldn't be entirely surprising if there are similarities in the way we approach the game. Beyond that, I can't really speak for him.

Sorry, that post should have happened 100 posts ago.

In regards to us "lurking out the game," I find it's far more interesting to see how the conversations about us flow when we're not actively involved in them. Plus, work and switching to the hydra is irritating. In any case, I'm putting this here: VOTE: Beer

I like this a lot more than the lynch the lynchbait plan(does anyone really believe fuzzy is THAT bad at being scum? like seriously? the level of scumminess in his posts is astronomical), or lynch the inactive who has been replaced by someone who actually seems engaged in the game.

For the record, I don't think Drixx will approve. He seems to be of the opinion that, because Vezok just gave up on that lynch, it was either a scum play that failed(which I think is unlikely, given that it's a low reward play with high risk, and given his double voting which seems unlikely to be(though possibly is) scum), OR it was a mutual play they came up with in their PT to reaction test the town, in which case it isn't alignment indicative at all.

I think the fact that this wagon disappeared basically as soon as the first distraction appeared is good cause to think it was on scum. I keep planning on looking at those vote counts, and seeing who left the wagon when and what they said was their reason for leaving it, but I keep pushing it off. I'll try to get around to it before we get super close to deadline. But remember, I'm terrible at this, so seriously, I could be wrong.

-Cerb

P.S. Let's see how long it takes for someone to point out how opportunistic this vote is, jumping on the wagon that's gaining momentum, and how it must be a counterwagon to scum somewhere in the current candidates, and how "omg it's so obvious he's just trying to distance himself from a lynch he KNOWS will flip town by talking about how he's bad". Whoever decides to take the plunge into making those arguments, you have fun with that.

P.P.S. Trench supporting us is a little worrisome as well(and you guys didn't confirm the plan with the allying thing, I'd like to make sure we're all clear on the procedure so we don't all end up without an alliance or something stupid like that). There's really two options there: Either they're scum, and know they failed miserably at getting Drixx at least lynched recently as town when they were fabulously wrong about his alignment and very confrontational, and thus think buddying up to us will be more effective, or they're town and have come to the realization that our mutual issues with getting a handle on each other/the ease with which we misunderstand each other are problems we should be very aware of, and try to avoid, and are thus doing so by deliberately being non confrontational. At least, that's how I see it. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Maybe it's as simple as "Titus would prefer to ally with known quantities who approach the game in a similar fashion, and will thus be more likely to spend the day in a useful conversation, than arguing about methodology."

One more thing, everyone. I made this post, the bolded portion at least, to basically give everyone a reason to dislike me in this game, to want to vote me, and to discourage scum from shooting at us by making ourselves appear to be an easy mislynch, so we could save our protections. I just wanted to apologize for the absolute douche that this post makes me appear to be, and assure everybody that even though I am pretty arrogant, I'm not nearly at the level this post makes me appear to be.

[Cerberus v666]

Maxwell! Looking forward to seeing your thoughts, hopefully you were following the game til the end.

[Cerberus v666]

omg Suikoden is fucking awesome! Also, I just finished reading the scum PT. Thank you guys for the work you put in to make it something you were okay with sharing.

[Cerberus v666]

I played the first three suikodens, and I played through a huge portion of suikoden tactics as well. I'm not going to lie and act like I remember the names of ANY of the 108 stars though.

[Cerberus v666]

OH, and xtoxm, if you ever check back here: That point about the whole acid thing...I did carry on that thought in my PT with Drixx, I just didn't share it with our "masonry"

[Cerberus v666]

Lol. I'll go back to Suikoden 1 and figure out who would result in the most OP role.

[Cerberus v666]

Huh. Almost makes me want to pick the squirrel. Almost.

[Cerberus v666]

Good! Now, just research. And paying attention to when the game goes up. I'm bad at that.

[Cerberus v666]

I will go look back at exactly what you're talking about and let you know tomorrow? I have to get to bed. At least, that's the responsible, adult thing to do.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, fun fact, I wanted to protect nic so badly both nights he died. Got talked out of it the first time, and screwed up the alliance as mentioned a bunch already the second time..

[Cerberus v666]

Do it! It's surprisingly good. At least, I was surprised.

[Cerberus v666]

Also frustrating: Site rules say you can only run a single mini theme at a time. So even thought I've got this setup essentially nailed, gonna have to sit on it for awhile. My Suikoden Upick is coming up, and Parasyte Large Theme should be following in time.
If anyone would like to be a part of the review process for the Steven Universe Prequel Theme, please let me know.

Well, I, for one, don't mind that restriction, since I'd rather not have to spend way more time than I should on mafia in order to play in all your games, or risk being a terrible player.