STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Fro99er]

Yeah, skybird simply asks beer how beer scumhunts. This is the exchange

Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?

No, I think suggesting

everything

must have town

or

scum motivation is silly.

OK, I see. Thanks.

Skybird just leaves it. Was skybird really interested in how beer scumhunts? If so, why not follow up on getting beer to answer that question? Or was skybird just asking it to ask it, and not actually care what the answer to the scumhunting part was?


I also didn't explain the ZZZX/Marquis deal enough. I've played with them twice. Once with them as a scumpair, the other with them as a townpair. In both cases, they seemed to play off each other and just come right out and say this is town ZZZX or town Marquis. I'm not getting that here, which makes me think that they are of different alignments. ZZZX additionally as scum would discredit people's methods of scumhunting him. So when Ricastle says he'll use PoE, and ZZZX discredits the PoE method (which is actually really an associative), it's something I notice.

[Fro99er]

Are you against Skybird because they haven't put a vote down yet? An empty vote for the sake of a vote is worse.

No...where did I say that?

[Fro99er]

SEIROUSLY LIKE COME ONE I COME HOME FROM POKER TO FIND OUT THIS THREAD IS STILL FUCKING OPEN?

Did you win money?

[Fro99er]

my bad

[Fro99er]

Apologies for lack of posting. I was on V/LA (but did focus on BEES when I could slip away for some computer time because that game was important to me). I'm on the road home from July 4 weekend at my in-laws and watching USA win the World Cup and being American as hell.

I'll check in tonight and for Varsoon I'll clean this up in hydra too. <3

[Fro99er]

ika is replacing out. Fro99er will assume the slot of the Ra9in9 Bull hydra.

Well at least I don't have to switch accounts now.

[Fro99er]

You all forgot that a lynch didn't happen after bins "hammered"

Beer obviously isn't hated

Either that or Varsoon made a vc mistake

There's 9 votes on Beer and 11 to lynch.

Beer could still be hated.

VOTE: Sonic X

[Fro99er]

I still think you're scum

[Fro99er]

Oh, that flip flop of votes?

Yeah no

Just go read RB's ISO. I've put plenty in there.

[Fro99er]

I don't even know what a vanity wagon is. I've heard that term, but no clue what it means.

[Fro99er]

Do you think your behavior is conducive to the game state?

I don't know. I don't see scum!Beer coming into a PT and claiming scum as something scum would actually do. combined with Vezok's somewhat shadiness in terms of being forthright about what was said and the hated claim deal and I am not feeling good about a Beer wagon. He's probably getting lynched anyway because deadline, but you are my strongest scumread because both you and ZZ are playing to your scum meta.

I also like Tunnel, Radmann/RI, Nic, and possibly Fuzzy (although I wasn't convinced by the meta argument, his posting went super shitty lately) as scum.

So I don't know how conducive my behavior is to the game state, but I'm starting to get really annoyed that every game I'm scumread because of my activity or lack of activity.

[Fro99er]

FFS here you go Sonic

I only have experience with scum Ricastle, but they are being much more joking here and less hostile. Town Ricastle for now.

Spoiler: Vezok

I'm liking farside's questioning and poking. Think she's town.

Not liking Verzok's tunnel. Beer's posts are strange and I'm going to assume the posts in their PT are also strange. But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.

Yes. I'm actually a scum double-voter in a neighbourhood with town and decided to go all in a gambit with very little pay-out day 1. How do you arrive at such brilliant conclusions my master Skybird? /sarcasm.

This is the towniest post ever. I agree the gambit as scum would be stupid. Further, Beer wouldn't pull the "oh I'm scum" deal as actual scum. Beer's actually the one pulling a gambit as town, and Vezok is actually latching onto it. TvT

Spoiler: Skybird

I'm liking farside's questioning and poking. Think she's town.

Not liking Verzok's tunnel. Beer's posts are strange and I'm going to assume the posts in their PT are also strange. But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.

why do you like farside's questioning and poking? The Vezok scumread is pretty bad. I doubt it's an intentional misrep. That would just be calling attention on Vezok as scum.

Marquis, what's your case on Sonic?

Marquis, what's your case on Sonic?

VOTE: skybird

i don't think you actually care. empty empty scum

Yeah, and I remember from the last game how well you can read me. Like, not at all.

This marquis focus is bad too. How about YOU actually make a case on someone instead of just asking someone else for their case and then taunting them about how they can't read you. If Marquis is scum, he already knows your alignment. If town, why would you be town taunting another townie?

But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.

I doubt this is the case.

Both Pawtucket and I are of the opinion that it's more likely Veko is town. I don't really think he's been "misrepresenting" anything I'm saying so much as "misinterpreting" things. It's also true that I haven't exactly been going out of my way to make it easy for him!

So what is the town motivation for trying to make it harder for a player to read you?

I think you can figure this out. There are multiple reasons. Or are you trying to out some kind of role for your benefit?

people keep posting that garnet song on tumblr and i don't know how i feel about it

blah blah more fluffposting until i find something i care about

also i still don't feel like skybird actually thought she would get a case from me and i think her response was unnecessarily defensive/prepared to some small extent

No, I actually want to know if you have a case and are trying to scum hunt or if you are just screwing around and sheeping others. (for the sonic vote) Now that you are voting me, can you articulate a case or are you just throwing mud hoping something sticks?

Again, can YOU make a case on someone? Or are you just going to keep bugging marquis for a case?

Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?

This is a good question. I'll ask you the same. How do you look for town or scum motivation, and when will you start to form a case on someone?

Marquis is town marquis. The trolly entrance kind and forming a read with time and information. Not forcing reads at first like I've seen from Marquis' alt.

I can't read Metal correctly. Marquis, what do you make of Z? Scummy?

Spoiler: ZZZX head

ZZZX here on phone. Literally skimmed everything on phone and I am surprised how bad bear case was. Nearly non exostant infact and people like marquis followed it? Marquis I know you are better than following a random paragraph of bullshit that uses some shiny words to appear like a case.

Unless you are scum. Which I hope you are not cus I wana enjoy interacting with you to catch scum

Either way I'll see ya all in 1-2 hours when I am on pc
-Z

This is really fake from Z. Z's also using his deal where he calls people's techniques bullshit (360s or 180s or whatever, associatives, PoE, etc.)

what the hell is this doing in the thread?

I cannot see both of you as town. I think it's very likely one of you is town and one is scum (although I wouldn't discount both scum), so I'd like to PoE you.

So in other words you will use poe.
If they are town we are scum
If they are scum there are two scum and we are scum?

Thus I just heard the most messed up thing in a while

-Z

So grapes is a double voting miller? Also

I mean, call this a chainsaw or whatever. But radman is pretty transparently town.

how is Radmann transparently town? I've never played with Rad so I saw a bunch of wishy washy/nullish reads while trying to appear towny. Four votes on Radmann I wouldn't say is transparently town...unless you are saying it's scum motivated. Who else do you think is scum on the Radmann wagon?

Spoiler: Reasonably Rational/Tunnel Warriors

P.S. Tunnel warriors, I'm not sure I like your role reveal. The multiple alliances thing was fine, and all you had to say. The bit about protecting everyone? Yeah, that makes you a target, and the role is far too useful mid-late game for you to paint a target on yourself on day 1, and I'm sure you realize that. Oh, and then you say bad things happen to scum when you die? Nice way to disincentivize town from lynching you, while simultaneously explaining away your continued survival. Not sure I buy any of the shit you're selling.

-Cerb

I disagree. I think if Tunnel Warriors really is town that this quality would be something they'd want to get out there as part of a town bloc. There's enough power in this game that if they really appear town with time, then a protective role should keep them around from getting NK'd.

That said, Tunnel's push on Marquis is p bad. Fluff =/= scum. Also, I've experienced the exact opposite with Marquis (well actually the Cho alt)

Then I may remind you all how Marquis tends to play with these floaty play-styles when he's scum. As town he's more down-to-earth and serious.

Tried to be all serious with the early reads in our newbie game, and i fell for it too and townread him hard D1. In Ori, they came in with the goofiness and floaty style, then serious'd up after a bit and helped town win

Whew...I'll get to more later.

Spoiler: Max 1

maxwell is still kind of hilarious.

i'm not sure where his experience level/mindset is with regards to what he expects scum to do vs. what scum realistically do. but. lol sorry i'm not trying to make a "lol ur a noob" comment because i hate those too but i'm kind of sick of all the incorrect assumptions regarding how/what scum play/are motivated to do, as well as the whole "marquis isn't drenching the game in useless excess questioning (because other people are already doing enough of that so it feels good to sit back and try and slowly sort through reads instead) so yeah he's probably scum"

well i mean

you're right in that my play could totally come from scum

but to be blunt it's more likely i'm town who doesn't really care about people scumreading me (other than this whole thing about being amused by maxwell - who ftr i would like to say i'm currently leaning town on, if it weren't for how i've been seeing scum these kinds of realistically bs pushes lately) than scum who realized i've been fluffing and didn't really do anything noteworthy for a while to address the scumreads
sorry i just have a bit more faith in my scumgame than that

Marquis you're just giggling at me, expecting me to just find a townread from you without supplying anything for me to work with besides admitting that you're fluffing, and admitting that you're making excuses, as if 'yeah i already know i haven't done anything so your comments mean nothing' somehow means you're town? If you know you're full of it, then do something. You keep saying 'wait, wait' but you've yet to find something in-thread to care about. I'm tired of the aloof better-than-you attitude. Not to mention the lack of questioning people who are actually townreading you for some reason.. I'm trying to understand what you're doing here. What aspects of your play am I supposed to be seeing as

not

scummy? Defend yourself instead of telling me to be psychic.

Max: You say Marquis is just giggling at you and providing anything to work with, yet you quote a post that is completely something to work with. You're latching on to the fluff posting, but underneath the fluff, I've seen substance (and pointed it out too).

Spoiler: Max 2

Bins: Why do you think Ricastle is scumreading you?

No idea. I haven't done anything yet. I'm also not caught up yet because I spent too long playing Borderlands... sales make me lazy, yay. And seeing rage makes me nope out of things.

My only guess would be he thought it was weird/fake/empty/attention-draggy that I was asking who wanted to be allied w/ me when he thought I couldn't even be in an alliance. I would think that would be weird too. I'm surprised he's the only person that pointed that out.

But yeah, can ally, just can't be targeted because I'm special.

So you don't see your lack of game-related talks, besides those regarding your role, as something people would scumread you for?

Well, I ask this now but Ricastle has already said that was why they were scumreading you, but you don't seem to be worried about it. You've been active enough in this game (in a fluffy sense) but haven't really commented on what's been going on, and there has been plenty of discussion happening. What you need to catch up on is basically just the Ra9in9 Bull drama, but the things I'd actually like to hear about happened before that.

Max: why do you keep on fixating on "lack of game related talk" or "fluff". Usually scum are quite self aware about how they appear, so sometimes I see fluffposting as actually a towntell. It really depends on the person and situation. WHY would Beer fluffposting be scummy? Here's what I think. Either Beer really did scumslip in thread and the fluffposting is a way of making light of the situation. The other option is obviously they are fluffposting to get people like you to latch on to it to find them scummy. There are reasons town wouldn't want to totally appear as obvtown. In the case of Marquis, the early fluffposting is mostly null, if not even a bit towny, and now Marquis is applying his mind to the game (see the Skybird stuff, the amished tell stuff which came later, etc.)

Spoiler: Cheetory

Finished Sonic X ISOdive.
Hard to follow a linear progression through the whole thing, but I kind of expected that tbh. q.q
He talks about believing vezok's claims of Beer scumclaiming at the start, but then there's a lot more focus on trying to discredit Beer's arguments towards him vs discussing that afterwards which strikes me as weird. There's no followup to the discussion there.

I don't like Sonic asking Beer to provide empirical evidence as to whether overexplaining is a legitimate scumtell or not and then going on to say that Beer's arguments are all just him calling him bad at the game. That doesn't really seem to line up IMO.

I really hate the amount of effort he put into explaining his townlean on me.
I would literally be shocked if everything in #286 were thoughts that he'd had from reading me before. It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.

@Sonic

, why did you put so much effort into explaining a townlean rather than just saying what you remembered about me being town or just saying that it was gut and calling it a day?
Also, why did you posture about lynching Ricastle before Beer when you were never even voting Ricastle?
Also also, why did you vote for Raging Bull? Talk about that.

The buddying on Bins is really really blatant and I have no idea what to make of it.

Sleeptimesnow.
BeerISODive will probably come Sunday if not tomorrow morning.

This is a really good post, but I did want to touch on the efforting part. Efforting often isn't alignment indicative. But, I can see a case for efforting on a townread being more indicative of scum than efforting on a scumread. I think it's a good idea to figure out why Sonic X was efforting on you.

Spoiler: Sonic X

Finished Sonic X ISOdive.
Hard to follow a linear progression through the whole thing, but I kind of expected that tbh. q.q
He talks about believing vezok's claims of Beer scumclaiming at the start, but then there's a lot more focus on trying to discredit Beer's arguments towards him vs discussing that afterwards which strikes me as weird. There's no followup to the discussion there.

I don't like Sonic asking Beer to provide empirical evidence as to whether overexplaining is a legitimate scumtell or not and then going on to say that Beer's arguments are all just him calling him bad at the game. That doesn't really seem to line up IMO.

I really hate the amount of effort he put into explaining his townlean on me.
I would literally be shocked if everything in #286 were thoughts that he'd had from reading me before. It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.

@Sonic

, why did you put so much effort into explaining a townlean rather than just saying what you remembered about me being town or just saying that it was gut and calling it a day?
Also, why did you posture about lynching Ricastle before Beer when you were never even voting Ricastle?
Also also, why did you vote for Raging Bull? Talk about that.

The buddying on Bins is really really blatant and I have no idea what to make of it.

Sleeptimesnow.
BeerISODive will probably come Sunday if not tomorrow morning.

if i justified my townread on you as "you look townie" more people would be bitching


cant please everyone

Why are you trying to please everyone? The Sonic I've known so far isn't worried about that.

Spoiler: Sonic X 2

ricastle did one very scummy thing (a more legit scumtell than cooldog's "oh you are directing night actions"), but most of his stuff otherwise would have been ok. i have a method for dealing with these kind of people

policy vote on raging bull

Ricastle is town. If you think ika only rages as town, why policy lynch our slot? Wouldn't a better thing to do be to ignore it or request we replace out and find scum instead?

Spoiler: Sonic X 3

It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.

yeah it is? weren't you looking for that? no?

you people are hard to please

Still trying to please people?

Spoiler: Sonic X 4

i am trying to scumhunting in here

give me space, thanks in advvance

Then scumhunt! Stop worrying about your appearance.

Spoiler: Skybird

Hey Skybird. Is there anyone you'd like to vote?

Right now the people I'm willing to vote for are Beer, Marquis, and Ra9in9Bull. These are the three scummiest to me.

VOTE: Marquis

His posting is mostly fluff and his push on me feels opportunistic.

How does it feel opportunistic? I usually use opportunistic to mean an opportunistic reason to hop on an already existing wagon. Do you mean Marquis' case is trumped up and BS? If so, how?

Spoiler: Marquis

The only thing I got out of a Beer ISOdive was that I dislike the way that Pawtucket threw Gordington under the bus for his play early on, but I'm not sure if I just think it's bullshit to treat a hydra partner like that in the open like that or if it feels like a scum gambit to try and ease the suspicion on their slot by being like "oh man look the good head is here to be not scummy now".

yeah this was my initial feeling, like a variation on the amished tell

thing is i've been trying to discern which alignment would be more likely to actually go through with it -

- and i'm aware this might not make sense to some but the lack of hydra partner respect/general ego thing makes me think it's a newer player (in the vein of vonflare/elusive/etc. with limited... skills in that social regard), who also likely wasn't aware of the amished tell being a thing, and thus would not be likely to hesitate with those comments as scum

i mean
pls tell me u see where i went with that

This could be jumping to assumptions (newer hydra, amished tell for replacing used for hydras), but it's also Marquis actually trying to actually figure out why one of Beer's heads is being apologetic for another.

I will catch up more tomorrow. It's late.

[Fro99er]

This is an extraordinarily lame vote. You think that Sonic-scum pushes that we are scum because we are not hated when we only have 9 votes on us?

That's not why I voted Sonic. Please read

[Fro99er]

I already described why Z is playing to his scum meta. I made good points against sonic saying ika only rages as town, then policy lynching us anyway (why would he policy lynch a townie). Sonic is now playing to his scum meta too, but I couldn't say that at the time because it was ongoing together in BEES, which finished a few days ago.

Seriously...why would Sonic say ika only rages as town, then vote us almost immediately after?

[Fro99er]

Let's look a frogger

Tell me why your bullshit is town bullshit frogger. You get 2 chances

What?

[Fro99er]

Do you really think that ika replaces out of this game without telling his own hydra partner

Um...he told me

[Fro99er]

What doesn't make sense.

You said ika only rages as scum. Then a few posts later you vote us.

Why?

[Fro99er]

as town

[Fro99er]

Or before. Whatever.

The point is you voted us while ika was raging, and if you have only seen him rage as town, why did you vote him in the process of raging.

[Fro99er]

Why were you so worried about how you looked. You hadn't addressed that yet.

[Fro99er]

FFS here you go Sonic

Spoiler: Sonic X

Finished Sonic X ISOdive.
Hard to follow a linear progression through the whole thing, but I kind of expected that tbh. q.q
He talks about believing vezok's claims of Beer scumclaiming at the start, but then there's a lot more focus on trying to discredit Beer's arguments towards him vs discussing that afterwards which strikes me as weird. There's no followup to the discussion there.

I don't like Sonic asking Beer to provide empirical evidence as to whether overexplaining is a legitimate scumtell or not and then going on to say that Beer's arguments are all just him calling him bad at the game. That doesn't really seem to line up IMO.

I really hate the amount of effort he put into explaining his townlean on me.
I would literally be shocked if everything in #286 were thoughts that he'd had from reading me before. It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.

@Sonic

, why did you put so much effort into explaining a townlean rather than just saying what you remembered about me being town or just saying that it was gut and calling it a day?
Also, why did you posture about lynching Ricastle before Beer when you were never even voting Ricastle?
Also also, why did you vote for Raging Bull? Talk about that.

The buddying on Bins is really really blatant and I have no idea what to make of it.

Sleeptimesnow.
BeerISODive will probably come Sunday if not tomorrow morning.

if i justified my townread on you as "you look townie" more people would be bitching


cant please everyone

Why are you trying to please everyone? The Sonic I've known so far isn't worried about that.

Spoiler: Sonic X 2

ricastle did one very scummy thing (a more legit scumtell than cooldog's "oh you are directing night actions"), but most of his stuff otherwise would have been ok. i have a method for dealing with these kind of people

policy vote on raging bull

Ricastle is town. If you think ika only rages as town, why policy lynch our slot? Wouldn't a better thing to do be to ignore it or request we replace out and find scum instead?

Spoiler: Sonic X 3

It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.

yeah it is? weren't you looking for that? no?

you people are hard to please

Still trying to please people?

Spoiler: Sonic X 4

i am trying to scumhunting in here

give me space, thanks in advvance

Then scumhunt! Stop worrying about your appearance.

[Fro99er]

That is not town bullshit

I'm sad to say frogger, that you are scum

So ika only rages as town, but I am scum?

How do you reconcile that?

[Fro99er]

Sonic

ika ONLY rages as town and you've NEVER seen him rage as scum (and you just defended that vote of us while he was raging so you believe he's town)

then how am I scum?

[Fro99er]

hey motherfucker

Did you just fucking hammer?

Fuck

FUCK YOU

Then why were you on his wagon?

[Fro99er]

If that was the hammer, and varsoon just posted, shouldn't this thread be locked?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: sonic x

[Fro99er]

If you read Marquis role it's pretty clear once he dies so does Cheetory. So Fuzzy I have no idea why you are going on about a vig. Playing dumb?

[Fro99er]

Possible Beer was a town run up however I have a feeling that there was atleast 1 scum on that wagon

It's pretty clear you think that because you are voting Grapes.

Sonic, I want to know why you stated "ika only rages like that as town" (paraphrasing) so confidently, and now you are voting me? And don't give me activity BS. You of all people KNOW I lurk when playing in a hydra as you were involved in both my hydra games.

[Fro99er]

Sonic, I want to know why you stated "ika only rages like that as town" (paraphrasing) so confidently, and then you were voting at end of D1? And don't give me activity BS. You of all people KNOW I lurk when playing in a hydra as you were involved in both my hydra games.

EBWOP

[Fro99er]

*voting me. Stupid phone posting

[Fro99er]

VOTE: RR

No one asked. Not even you.

I'll explain if you want, when I'm not on mobile.

You never explained

I wanted lynches on Fuzzy or RR, but now I have to settle for this. This is sort of similar.

At end of day still wanted to lynch RR

And RR, we'll talk tonight. It should help my read on you as well.

What does this imply? Alliances don't form until next day. Do you two have some sort of night talk?

Also, as Max implies, it's like you knew you were lynching town in beer even though you wanted to lynch Fuzzy or RR (who were two of the other bandwagons D1)

[Fro99er]

Missed that, thanks.

Still don't like Bins willingness to be on three of the easy wagons yesterday, especially being unconvinced of Beer being scum yet moving off the other wagons that had momentum at times.

[Fro99er]

I voted beer because I wasn't feeling the other two wagons and I thought that was a good alternative.

Why weren't you feeling the other two wagons?

[Fro99er]

hey motherfucker

Did you just fucking hammer?

Fuck

FUCK YOU

Then why were you on his wagon?

[Fro99er]

I am pretty certain reading marquis ISO im right they were Mason too.

Vote: fuzzy

I don't know if you're right on the masons. The fact that one flipped like lover mason strongly suggests the other is. Even if we are wrong, still best not to find that out as investigating that just helps scum find roles.

~Titus

Read the spoilered role PM in Marquis' flip...it's clear they were Mason lovers

[Fro99er]

Sonic, if you wanted to duel me, why were you voting beer? Your motivations make no sense. Why wouldn't you unvote beer at L-1 if you wanted to duel me?

[Fro99er]

lol, sonic you think I'm a loser. After hydrating with me in one game and a perfect scum win with me in another?

Ok.

[Fro99er]

So you wanted to reset the vote count with mere hours left in D1??????

Ok

[Fro99er]

Also, you tried to reset the vote count at 1:30am USA eastern time? Good timing there...

[Fro99er]

I stated to CooLDoG in our alliance PT I thought it was a good idea, but I don't think he agrees.

[Fro99er]

@Maxwell, what do you think? You have good knowledge of the show...has the flavor fit the game so far? Would mass claim be beneficial?

[Fro99er]

light prism.

Fuck off. I mean a real character claim. Cause I believe you're Jasper and that you're scum.

I'm not sold on sonic scum. It's certainly possible, but I'm not reading sonic's scumgame here.

What changed?

This is scum!Sonic IMO

[Fro99er]

The role claim is fake and his light prism claim according to Vezok is bad.

And his conftown claim was bad.

[Fro99er]

Sonic...why aren't you voting me then if your gladiate deal was not real?

[Fro99er]

What do you mean sonic bailed?

[Fro99er]

I mean, I'm scum reading him and all, but he went to bed. It's night time where he lives.

[Fro99er]

Metal Sonic replaced Sonic X. It clearly stated that in thread. Why else do you think Metal Sonic was posting?

[Fro99er]

Fuzzy's consistent buddying/defending of me today is not making me feel good about him. Especially as he's doing so poorly.

[Fro99er]

I'd like to ask everyone to keep personal assaults and similar offenses to a minimum.
Please focus on the game first and foremost.
If something/someone offends you, come to me first.
Do not take it out on other players.
Often times, we can post things that are far more offensive than what we mean,
It's okay to be frustrated with another player or play, but please be understanding.

Spoiler:

Like Ronaldo says; Take it down a notch.

well there goes my strategy. Thanks, Varsoon

[Fro99er]

I have no clue what to think of that convo

This

Last time we read into a PT convo we ended up lynching town.

Now someone is frustrated enough to replace out.

As for Sonic's gladiate deal, he is the type to use dayvigs, gladiates, etc as scum or town. What he isn't is someone who doesn't know HOW to use them, so I don't put too much stock into the first part of RR's reasons it might have failed.

[Fro99er]

also, out of interest, let me see one thing real quick. I promise I will go back to voting sonic.

vote: frogger

fuck your mother

I see what you did there!

[Fro99er]

Jesus fucking Christ, I'm not posting until Varsoon explains this shit to me

Explains what?

That you are scum with a gladiator ability?

[Fro99er]

THIS GAME IS BASTARD

Did you just scumclaim?

You said (paraphrasing):

"Gladiator is always town unless it's bastard"

Then you said:

"This game is bastard"

[Fro99er]

Ok...I think see why he was saying it's bastard. I thought he meant it was bastard if scum was gladiator. He means because his shot failed?

[Fro99er]

well, i have your vote already, so thats cool and thanks for your support,

LOL

[Fro99er]

You've shared roles already?! You must be pretty confident you're both town then?

I shared my role, yes. I kinda had to because part of it would become obvious enough to CooLDoG if I didn't share it.

The other part I shared with CooLDoG because Sonic targeted me with that gladiate thing, and I figured speculation would come at some point as to why it didn't work. Since it's obvious now...I'm ascetic, which is why Sonic's gladiate thing didn't work on me.

I'm Steven's mother, Rose Quartz, founder and leader of the crystal gems.

The ability only CoolDoG knows about will become publicly known soon enough, I'm sure. But it makes sense with the flavor as well.

[Fro99er]

I'm not cringing Sonic

[Fro99er]

I'm getting you lynched instead, because you are scum.

[Fro99er]

Let's lynch this guy. That fakeclaim is horrible.

It's not a fakeclaim.

Light Prism or whatever sonic claimed is clearly a fake claim. WTF is that even.

[Fro99er]

So, a dead character who has appeared in the series is a fake claim, but light prism from a video game isn't?

You're contradicting yourself on c-list characters now

[Fro99er]

I'm not saying sonic faked a gladiate...I'm saying he's scum. I've given reasons all D1 and now D2.

[Fro99er]

How original

[Fro99er]

Sonic, you still have YET to answer my question I've asked several times.

You said "ika only rages as town"

so how did you suddenly flip scum on me? When did you, where did you (post), and WHY did you?

[Fro99er]

His opening posts of today felt horrible

Please explain.


-----


I still don't understand why Sonic would be on the Beer wagon, then get pissed off that Beer got lynched, just so he could gladiate me at end of day 1, and reset the vote count with little time remaining.

Sonic still hasn't pointed out how he started scumreading me D1 to decide on gladiating me, even though I asked.

HE went from, "Beer is scum," to "gladiate frog even though Beer is at L-1 and I'm voting him" pretty quick.

[Fro99er]

I am confused how Fro is scum ..other than he blocked Sonic ability and he claimed Rose. The ability could be either town or scum . The Rose claim seem possible. I need more time to figure this mess out

and since Fro confirmed Sonic ability

[/unvote Sonicb]

Fro comments makes me think that Sonic claim was real and hids claim is real.

If Fro is Rose than I think he is solid town

So who are your scum reads?

[Fro99er]

Fro99er has also been unusually lurky for most of the game.

Ricastle's excuse for voting me earlier was my lack of activity, which came from when I was in hydra.

Now he's confibiasing his read on me (still Ricastle is town, just confbiased town). He just voted me again without any reason. I'm NEVER active in hydra, but much more active when I have my solo account playing. Activity is alignment neutral for me because I always lurk in hydra, and I always post too much solo.

So, Ricastle, what is your reason for voting me aside from activity?

[Fro99er]

I wouldn't be scumreading you for something you don't know. You've never played with me in a game where I'm in hydra. I'm pointing out it's a shit reason here, but it's not a scum motivated reason. How fucking hard is that to see?

[Fro99er]

I SCUMREAD you when you do stupid scum gambits like day shooting a townie and claiming you are town, then act all agressive and ragy. You have been the exact opposite of that this game, and you've shown you've tried to figure this game out. Last game we played, you didn't try to figure the game out at all. You just tried to get by on a dumb gambit to buy town points.

THis is EXACTLY waht Sonic is doing here.

[Fro99er]

(meaning a dumb scum gambit to buy town points)

[Fro99er]

No

[Fro99er]

Ascetic is a modifier, and so is X-shot, so I don't think you can have an X-shot Ascetic (A modifier of a modifier). Modifiers are for roles (like an X-shot bulletproof)...but I could obviously be wrong. I've just never seen a modifier of a modifier before in a non-bastard game.

(also, sonic's this game is bastard complaints are lolbad).

[Fro99er]

Since it's obvious now...I'm ascetic, which is why Sonic's gladiate thing didn't work on me.

You know, it won't count, but screw it, it's symbolic enough.
VOTE: Fro99er.

Symbolic back, son

VOTE: mastin

[Fro99er]

Yep. My vote moves CooLDoGs vote since we are allied.

Mastin was a vote to show CooLDoG my ability I claimed in our PT really is my ability.

[Fro99er]

He can then vote someone else and it can be separate from my vote. But as soon as I vote again his vote moves with mine

[Fro99er]

That's why I said it would become obvious soon enough.

[Fro99er]

I have no idea how it's automatically a scum role though.

I told cool I'd prove my vote moving thing and I'd consult with him on who we agree on voting.

The other thing is, if I'm not allied, it's not even a power.

[Fro99er]

That voting thing also makes sense with rose quartz (STEVENS MOTHER) who was the leader/founder of the gems. So others followed her lead.

[Fro99er]

So anyway. I am going to wait for Cool to respond to me in our PT because my Mastin vote was purely symbolic to show cool my vote move thing works, and see why he'd rather vote me than sonic

[Fro99er]

What?

When I vote, CooLDoG is forced to vote the same person I am voting. That is why when I placed my symbolic vote on Mastin, the vote count showed up both myself AND cool voting Mastin.

He can then vote someone else if he wants by making his own vote. So the ONLY way my vote really matters as a two person vote is if someone is at L-2. Even then, I obviously wouldn't force cool to hammer unless we both wanted to hammer.

My power only works when I'm in an alliance and does not work in LyLo.

[Fro99er]

Cool's vote only moves with me because we targeted each other to be in an alliance/fusion

[Fro99er]

I'm so sick of being scumread for the most part for my activity level and for my roles. I'm sitting here making a case on sonic that has nothing to do with roles/abilities and everything to do with his motivations, but the case on me is largely due to me not claiming ascetic D1, and for my voting power deal. I've never even seen ascetic until this game so I had no idea town is supposed to claim ascetic D1. Go check my game history. I was in tons of marathons both in this forum and via skype with Titus too, and not ONCE was there an ascetic in any of those either. As for my voting deal, I KNOW I have that power, so why the hell would I

intentionally

go get in an alliance with Cool where I KNEW my forcing him to vote deal was going to come out if I was scum?

You all are sitting here scumreading me because you think you can break the game on roles and abilities, and it's stupid. When I flip town, you'll all have to go back to the drawing board and realize you can't break this game on roles.

@Vezok - if you think you can break the game on flavor, why the hell did you push for a Beer lynch when you knew his flavor? Now you're pushing for another mislynch of a good guy character...STEVENS MOM! What are you even doing?

When I get mislynched, you all better lynch Sonic/ZZZX because his motivation/intention to reset the vote counter to gladiate me mere HOURS before deadline while he was voting Beer and Beer was at L-1 makes no fucking sense. I explained this D1, but ZZZX ALWAYS uses stupid dismissive arguments as scum. In newbie 1609 he dismissed my preflip associations as BAD because they are always supposed to be bad (whatever, I called him and Marquis, the IC/SE scum team out and won the game based off those preflip associations). Now he dismissed Ricastle's PoE as dumb. This is his scum game people. It's sonic's too. He's trying to pretend he's frustrated by saying this game is bastard and all that shit.

But here you are scumreading me for my abilities, activity (which for me is null), and my Rose Quartz claim (I'm not sure how because I'm town and that's a town character).

Now CooLDoG - are you ready to vote Sonic with me, or do you want to continue to get me mislynched based off an ability, even though you've townread me all game FFS.

[Fro99er]

When I get mislynched,

you all better lynch Sonic/ZZZX because

his motivation/intention to reset the vote counter to gladiate me mere HOURS before deadline while he was voting Beer and Beer was at L-1

makes no fucking sense

. I explained this D1, but ZZZX ALWAYS uses stupid dismissive arguments as scum. In newbie 1609 he dismissed my preflip associations as BAD because they are always supposed to be bad (whatever, I called him and Marquis, the IC/SE scum team out and won the game based off those preflip associations). Now he dismissed Ricastle's PoE as dumb. This is his scum game people. It's sonic's too. He's trying to pretend he's frustrated by saying this game is bastard and all that shit.

wait, so you want to lynch me because i "make no fucking sense", not because "i am scummy"?

lol! this is a+ scumhunting folks.

you're not even trying

Both.

I pointed out your intentions make no sense and only come from a scum mindset. Now you are intentionally highlighting parts to misrep what I'm saying.

[Fro99er]

someone else should make the case for me because im bad at making cases.

oh wait, beer already made one. why dont you go read it then sheep me on frogger scum

You mean the townie you wanted to lynch until the last second when you wanted to gladiate another townie D1?

[Fro99er]

So you agreed with Beer D1, yet voted him and stayed on him through lynch?

[Fro99er]

Having the ability to move someone's vote when you are aligned is neutral in nature. Telling everyone about it is town IMO.

No, telling everyone about it is equally null, because it is self-evident. Not telling would be a condemnation because it'd be pathetically easy to figure out. The only way scum could use hiding it to their advantage is to have Frogger not vote at all until someone's at L-2 and spring a surprise-hammer...which would earn Frogger a condemnation the next day. Ergo, Frogger MUST tell us about it, or be condemned for not doing so.

Or I could just not join an alliance/fusion if it's an ability I wanted to keep hidden. Instead I chose to join an alliance/fusion knowing full well my ability would be outed.

[Fro99er]

For the record, I don't believe Mastin is scum. My vote is/was symbolic to show Cool my ability works

I'm still waiting for Cool to respond to me in the ally PT we have.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Sonic X

[Fro99er]

@Fuzzy

You sound like you have no scum reads except for waiting for Mastin to conftown tomorrow, which is dumb. Are you scumreading anyone?

[Fro99er]

Ok, Trench finally helped me understand their alliance situation somewhat with that last post...let me get this straight.

Bins KNEW there'd be a large alliance between TW1, TW2, and RR. And intentionally imposed herself on it, with the possibility of being able to nullify up everyone's abilities?

Why did Bins:

1) not choose a smaller alliance where she scumread one of the two (or both). Less collateral damage if she really was going to use her vanillafying power
2) instead choose the three person alliance where she's only scumreading ONE of the three, yet threaten to vanillafy two townies just to vanillify ONE scum read?

I have no idea what Hermit did or didn't do in regards to actually vanillafying or retracting it via PM, and I guess we'll never know.

But then Tunnel also threatened/actually did dayvig. Was the dayvig PM actually sent? If so, then why hasn't it gone through?

This is confusing, and I think some clarity is needed from both Hermit and Tunnel. Why did Tunnel suddenly disappear after he threatened/did dayvig and Varsoon has posted no day kills? We had two people threaten/actually (maybe) use abilities on each other/the alliance yet nothing happened?

[Fro99er]

Like seriously...why choose the BIGGEST alliance to impose on and possibly vanilla-ize, when it's more likely to have multiple townies than a smaller alliance?

[Fro99er]

Ok...that makes more sense.

So the question remains. Then once Hermit replaced in, why would she threaten/actually try to/retract a vanillaizing on the whole neighborhood? Does Hermit believe two or three of you are scum?

[Fro99er]

I guess Trench answers that with the nullscum on RR, and town on Trench and other TW

[Fro99er]

And what's going on with Tunnel's supposed dayvig?

[Fro99er]

Why did Bins even decide to target our hood if this was her ultimate intention? Even if she was nullscumreading RR, why nuke us and TW? This doesn't make any fucking sense.

I think I understand why people are up in arms about this. I'm finally beginning to care about this game again!

She claimed she thought her ability would simply force an alliance between my slot and her own, while leaving the other alliance unaffected. This would therefore let her sort our slot, and decide if she should vanillaize us. Upon realizing she had instead joined our huge alliance, she said her second ability was really anti-town, so she just wouldn't use it.

It looks like she simply acted without clarifying exactly what her power would do. At least, that's what she claimed.

-Cerb

And why are the two of you are in an alliance but not even on the same page about Bins.

Trench is asking the questions about bins targeting the hood (like I was), and RR is answering that Bins didn't target the hood, but rather just RR.

[Fro99er]

RR - thanks.

[Fro99er]

Eh, you know what, forget that. I've played it far too cautious up till now when there is overwhelming evidence that you're scum. The only thing which has kept me from acting is that Varsoon is modding this game, but I'm pretty sure now that he's not twisted enough to go this far.

I would love to drag this out a bit further to confirm you as scum beyond reasonable doubt, but I'm an impatient guy, and you know what I always say:

If every porkchop were perfect, we wouldn't have hotdogs, TunnelWarriors!

Ricastle...LOL you and your cannons

[Fro99er]

Ricastle, I'm having flashbacks about two cannons

[Fro99er]

Did Ric seriously just cannon another townie?

[Fro99er]

Yeah. iOS not see Ricastle doing this as scum this time

[Fro99er]

I do not see

[Fro99er]

Ric have you already character claimed?

[Fro99er]

Like did you just seriously shoot me because of that?
Are you a fucking idiot or something?

I have seen him shoot a Town day vig before as scum. But I don't think he would do that again knowing I am in the game but IDK

[Fro99er]

Was it necessary to keep those conditions secret? What are they?

I'm Greg.

I thought so, that is his saying...hubby

[Fro99er]

Well, that flavor is pretty obvious within the first..umm...i'm not sure how many episodes, but I started watching the show, and each episode is like 11 minutes long, and it didn't take that many of those 11 minute episodes before I learned about the Light Cannon and the trigger phrase for it.

-Cerb

Yeah.

I'm hooked now...dammit Varsoon!

But that's how I figured Ric was Greg wth that phrase. But Steven was actually the one who shot the cannon at Red Eye by saying the phrase so I wasn't totally sure if Ric was Greg or the cannon.

[Fro99er]

Ricastle hasn't shot a townsperson with a fruit cannon yet, so that makes me feel good about his slot.

FFS again?

There's NO way you do this two games in a row with me as scum, unless you are scum WIFOMing me specifically that hard, but I seriously doubt that. Especially with your Greg claim which is Steven's dad and a town character. And you haven't acted as aggressive as you did that game either. So you're still town.

But good lord...did you scum read him for anything other than claiming to have a dayvig? If not, that's just reckless.

[Fro99er]

I want a masa flavor claim. This is already getting dumb. I want maxwell back.

@Vezok - if you think you can break the game on flavor, why the hell did you push for a Beer lynch when you knew his flavor? Now you're pushing for another mislynch of a good guy character...STEVENS MOM! What are you even doing?

[Fro99er]

I want a masa flavor claim. This is already getting dumb. I want maxwell back.

@Vezok - if you think you can break the game on flavor, why the hell did you push for a Beer lynch when you knew his flavor? Now you're pushing for another mislynch of a good guy character...STEVENS MOM! What are you even doing?

I already explained your point makes absolutely no sense.

I'm starting to think scum are scared of a mass flavor claim.

Well I already said I'm in favor of a mass claim and I already claimed. I just don't understand your thinking of:

Beer = Lars = scum (you pushed for his mislynch)
Frog = Rose Quartz = scum (Steven's mother!)
Sonic = Light Prism = town (a video game character?)

because that doesn't fit the flavor!

[Fro99er]

So if you want to use flavor to break the game, I'm all for it. But you need to use it right!

[Fro99er]

This game is breakable by flavor. Like really breakable. We need to get that janitor out of the way.

I really think a massclaim will be beneficial. The only thing I'm afraid might happen is that Steven dying will do something stupid that hurts us.

If we don't think a massclaim is good at least a name-claim should help us more than it hurts us.

Please state your opinion on this.

I stated to CooLDoG in our alliance PT I thought it was a good idea, but I don't think he agrees.

Apparently Vezok missed this.

[Fro99er]

I said beer was scum because of all the shit he did. Being lars was like 10% of my reason for thinking he is scum.

So either you decided to go against flavor, or you are using flavor incorrectly.

You are scum because Rose being alive doesn't make sense.

Sure it does. Varsoon even said this could come from stuff outside of season 1. And Rose Quartz is IN season one in flashbacks, etc.

Sonic's makes sense.

HOW?!

[Fro99er]

I'm town, you are town. We should be working together because this argument isn't helping us find scum.

Scum is probably sitting back and laughing at the mess we've been today (other than sonic who is just laughing because there is no way town has Ricastle, tunnel, and sonic's powers)

[Fro99er]

Not a fan of Hermit's "Ricastle did it too" so it justifies me attitude. Scum often uses the "oh another townie did it" excuse, and he seems to be misreading or misrepping what was said in your PT.

RR is reading super town as a result of that last post.

Not sure what Cool thinks about your ally proposal to me, but our PT has been pretty sparse...but that's just because he's less active it seems. You'd also have to be ok with my vote following ability.

[Fro99er]

Pedit: hmmm

[Fro99er]

@Frogger I'm not misrepresenting anything. Making up a role you don't have is bad town policy, and the actual justifications for doing so are rarely good. I do accept that I used my power prematurely, but if anything I feel like Wguerts sealed his own fate here.

Yeah, you didn't misrep my fault. I misread 2087.

[Fro99er]

Also, 2031 pretty sure wasn't a scumslip, but the wording makes it possible from Frogger.
Justsayin.

Yeah. Not a scumslip. I was town on that prior and I'm town here. "With me as scum" meant Ricastle as scum (in other words I'm pretty sure he wouldn't do that twice in a row with me in the game where he is scum). It should be obvious by context but you are confbiasing so you'll do anything to find a scumslip from me.

[Fro99er]

Ricastle. Were you scum or town reading Hermit at the time of your dayvig?

[Fro99er]

Spoiler: NicCage reads

NicCage, I'd like to hear your thoughts on these players:

Fro99er
Sonic X
TunnelWarriors
Reasonably Rational
St Constantine the Hermit
TheFuzzylogic99

Sonic X is hard for me to sort out. I'm starting to change my mind on him a bit, and I'm thinking maybe he isn't scum after all and is just obnoxious and sloppy. I don't really see the scum motivation for trying to gladiate on D2, or even at the end of D1, since that would get him into a lot of hot water. I'm assuming that role makes it a vote off between him and his target.

RR- Yesterday they were a bit frustrating with the refusal to cooperate with people asking them to play differently, especially since each head has apparently acted different in the past. But it wasn't like they didn't say anything of value before being pressed. I feel like they take a neutral position by and large, but I don't see anything particularly scummy about them.

St. Constantine is probably just an idiot, there's really no scum motivation to his play. I felt that bins was town after my conversation with her at the end of D1, and I don't think that there's anything scummy or strange about her trying to get in an alliance with RR if she was suspicious of them, which she had stated. It's also not a weird suspicion. I had the impression that she wasn't even planning to use her power on that slot without first trying to evaluate it. Also there was no need for her to mention what her power does, if she were scum and accidentally stumbled into that large alliance I wouldn't imagine that she would give that information up.

Fuzzy... Eh. I probably should have just hopped on his wagon yesterday rather than voting beer. I really can't tell if he's faking or being honest, but all of his play is pretty surface level, and he only seems to question things that other people have brought up. He's VI as fuck though, regardless of his alignment, especially with all the spelling errors. I just want to share this with you all, one of fuzzy's interests as quoted from his profile is "challanging my mental capacity".

Fro99er feels scummy to me. I don't know how to interpret his role either way, and while his flavor may be possible his claim still felt weird to me. I keep waffling on him in my head and now I'm getting lazy so I'm gonna give up for today.

p-edit, you guys posted a lot while I was writing this

I really hate this post. NicCage's reads are pretty much follow the crowd in terms of popular opinion and still leave wiggle room for getting out of those reads. The only one he's even kind of committed to is Hermit.

[Fro99er]

I want someone to accuse fuzzy of being scum, and use something that isn't 'he's an idiot bruh', if they're going to accuse him at all.

This.

He's in my null pile, but I'm reading him more as town VI than scum. His scum meta is so tryhard and more careful.

[Fro99er]

Just, listen to me next time, and shoot who I tell you to. That way you don't get blamed for the decision.

[Fro99er]

@Ricastle can you answer this?

Ricastle. Were you scum or town reading Hermit at the time of your dayvig?

[Fro99er]

Can't see why it's important.

Because last game we played, you (as scum) dayvigged another town dayvig (Woody) to protect another townie (Persivul) to gain town cred with Persivul.

This time, if you were townreading Constantine, I figured it would be different because you didn't do it to protect Constantine but instead because you didn't believe Tunnel's claim. So I'm townreading the situation, but that would definitely have helped.

If you were scumreading Constantine, then the fact that Tunnel threatened to dayvig someone you were scumreading wouldn't make sense for you to then dayvig Tunnel.

[Fro99er]

I didn't even see this until now...

I am not remotely interested in this game anymore because purportedly for reasons perfectly apparent to ME prior to the flip that shot was the most atrocious play in the history of MS and all of you couldn't make me feel worse about it. So I'm just going to coast to lylo by doing nothing so I can actually live to endgame for once. No, I'm not interested in replacing out, much as I'm not interested in doing anything positive for you fuckers.

This is annoying. Obviously Ricastle is town by both flavor and being demotivated town for getting ripped to shreds for his dayvig play. So now he's just not going to help and pout:

Sure.

Can't see why it's important.

I don't remember anyway.

I don't want to policy lynch him, because he's obviously town. But if he's going to be useless scum is just going to leave him around until LyLo. This is just super immature and self-serving (I'm going to survive to LyLo).

@Varsoon, can you do something about this?

No. Sometimes it is up to the players to figure out what to do about someone losing motivation or 'phoning it in'. So long as Ricastle continues to play towards their win condition and doesn't flake on the game entirely, it is within the bounds of the rules.

[Fro99er]

Lurking isn't against the rules. That's actually specifically stated in the rules. If you want to PL me, you can do so anytime.

I'm still going to vote though.

Well, I wasn't one of the ones who berated you, so maybe you can try for those who actually DO like playing with you.

[Fro99er]

frogger who are you scumreading besides sonic? because a recent iso of you leaves me scratching my head on that question, i guess you're kinda thinking bins is scum, but that's sorta becoming an echo chamber at this point

Said this to cool in my PT with him:

Sonic
Replaced In (I said this to cool before Replaced's claim just recently, so now I don't know what to make of that slot)
one of the large neighborhood (now thinking Constantine is the one for several reasons)
NicCage (had him as scum lean before his most recent posts, now solidly into scum pile, especially the one I quoted/spoilered)

Flum/Fuzzy are null for me, but I could see one or both of them scum. I believe Fuzzy is more likely town VI though based off his meta.

[Fro99er]

You can't count

1 sonic
2 replaced
3 hermit
4 Nic cage

[Fro99er]

You can't count

1 sonic
2 replaced
3 hermit
4 Nic cage

oh my bad, the hermit slot too, i can make a case for the top 3 being town, replaced is the closest of them to null territory

niccage wouldn't be a terrible lynch i guess, what about his recent posts made you put him 'firmly in the scum pile'?

You can keep being intentionally dense. It's in my ISO and I stated where too.

The spoilered post/quote of Nic's was completely follow the crowd but also waffle-y enough that he could easily change his read if popular opinion changed. It was mostly IIoA to boot.

[Fro99er]

oh my bad, the hermit slot too, i can make a case for the top 3 being town, replaced is the closest of them to null territory

And I've made a case for sonic scum, I have a case to put together on Hermit when I'm off the phone, and yes I am waffling on Replaced because that claim obviously changes things.

If I start waffling on someone am I supposed to just have another scum read ready lined up to insert in?

I'm not sure how the number of scum reads I have even matters.

[Fro99er]

I'm not sure how the number of scum reads I have even matters.

It does and it doesn't. I've never played with you before so I'm just trying to get a feel for you and how many scum reads you could potentially juggle as scum and the unwavering until faced with something convenient to waver for isn't doing you a lot of favors.

Tell me where it was convenient for me to move from scum to town on Vezok, from scum to town on skybird, from unsure to scum on Constantine, town to unsure on fuzzy, and unsure to town on RR? I guess you are forming this opinion based off the Replaced In claim.

I mean, you check in every few days, try to catch up, clearly have been missing parts of the game (as you've shown twice since you've been here today alone), and are forming your reads based off catch-up posts and partial information due to your attempted catch ups. Yet you criticize sky for coasting when almost every post of theirs has had content either through analysis or questioning, but you are the one coasting on your miller/double vote claim trying to make a catch up every few days.

[Fro99er]

@Grapes:

Yes, I've hardly interacted with you all game, but you just now interacted with me so I responded. It actually made me pay attention to you because, like Replaced In, I've had a hard time reading your catch-up walls. I do a lot better with conversational interactions than I do with someone who pops in every two or three days and posts a huge wall of text.

Yes, you have been scumreading Skybird all game, but the most recent reason was for coasitng, which I pointed out Sky is absolutely NOT coasting. So I guess that particular hypocrisy just popped up because once again you finally checked in again after a couple days, your catch up post was underwhelming, and then yet you called out someone for coasting in a catch-up post of yours.

Do I expect you to coast on a miller claim? I'm not sure. I think it makes more sense for scum to coast on a miller claim than town, because town should still be actively engaged in trying to find scum. I don't

think

you are fakeclaiming miller, but I'm not sure.

[Fro99er]

I'VE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO SKYBIRD! I've seen how his read evolved on Beer, I've seen how his read evolved on me (he took my side on the Sonic/me 1v1), I've seen how he's made some good points about Constantine. He's given speculation on the double voting situation poitning out now that farside has a vote the double vote and two stumps don't balance any more (which will bring me to a point about your double vote).

You are the one who is being blind to Skybird!

You criticize me for not engaging you, but you admit yourself you didn't keep tabs on my reads,

and you don't care to

(where's the town mindset in that?). You scum read me for not changing my reads (except when convenient...yet I've pointed out several reads changing that didn't come at convenient times, yet you seem to think they weren't inconvenint,

but you don't even go look

and instead want to make a blanket assumption they don't seem inconvenient), but you haven't changed your reads on myself or Sky all game.

Back to that double vote point...your double vote power is more scummy than vezok's. At least with your double vote, you have the option of bussing and simultaneously mislynching as scum, whereas Vezok can double vote only the same person, making it much less likely he's scum because bussing would be very detrimental to scum in that situation. Given that Farside is no longer a stump, there is now 17 players (9 to lynch), but 18 eligible votes. Your split vote makes it so that there still really is only 17 possible votes that could go on a single player (since your other vote cannot go on the same person twice), keeping the game's voting balance.

Also, your sequence on Beer was really poor. Especially the last two posts. Oh, I woke up. Better catch up. Nah, hammer (but call for a back up hammer just in case). Also you "recalled a town read" on Beer, but

did you actually go back through and ISO Beer/Sonic to confirm to yourself it was TvT?

Doesn't look like it. How did their interaction "feel" TvT?

Spoiler: Grapes on Beer (now I want wine)

cage do you honestly expect beer to get enough support in time?

Is it that impossible? There's three days left. That's like 7 days in dog years.
I mean, initial trolling aside, has the beer slot ever done anything of value?

Uhm. I guess anything is possible. But the threads been open for 10 days and we haven't even got something to L1 yet. And this isn't me trying to narrow our lynch pool down for this phase, this is me just trying to bring you and everyone else back to reality.

I'd switch there to get a lynch today I suppose because that slot is one of the many just lurking out the deadline. Though I recall a townread there so I'm kinda torn. The one thing watering it down is although the wall war they had with sonic felt tvt, semantics did pop up a lot on both sides. Maybe another iso there just to see if it was mostly misreps or misunderstandings.

yo i just woke up and am reading stuff now

UNVOTE:

gonna go toast some bagels and when i get back will probably hammer beer because screw no lynch

VOTE: beer

hated isn't a role we should be really keeping around too long anyway - but someone else should vote after this in the off chance it's a fakeclaim

i hope to christ we won't be deadline lynching like this anymore after today

All I see is general laziness from you, and coasting. Once you mention you didn't care to look up my reads, another time you didn't bother to go look up whether my changes in reads were convinient or not, and a third time you didn't actually follow up on an ISO you said you would to ensure Sonic v Beer was TvT, then you hammer beer after no catch up after being away for a good while. You're being sloppy and lazy at best, and scummy at worst.

Oh, and finally, I see you want to lynch 3 people and maybe a 4th. Where have I heard that before (this isn't a scum point against you, simply me pointing out irony)?

[Fro99er]

So my catch up walls are boring to read and when I make it short and sweet it's underwhelming.

Length doesn't matter. Quality matters. Your catch up amounted to

"Skybird is coasting"

"Frog how many scum reads do you have"

"Maxwell feels off"

"Ricastle is probably town"

"Bins is probably town but creepy bear"

No analysis whatsoever after a long time of not posting. Had there been good analysis in a short concise post your catch up would have been fine. You are trying to catch me on some technicality that isn't true.

[Fro99er]

I think we're talking past each other at this point because we haven't interacted and it's now come to a head.

We both think we're catching each other in petty points and contradictions and this isn't helping town one bit.

[Fro99er]

@Replaced In

: I'm not sure how I feel about your claim. What was the reason for claiming when you did?

[Fro99er]

Regarding my Constantine read, I thought this was weird:

Claiming characters doesn't do any good, because all the mods here hand out fake claims. Wguerts can't shoot me because I vaporized his role. I also made a very strategic move which I still believe was a good one. As I said, I wasn't doing it to troll.

Titus, I am not a supersaint, I don't know where you got that idea.

In case you all decide to character claim though, I am Kevin.

Like, "massclaim is no good...but I'll claim anyway." Like they want to be opposed to it, but fit in anyway. Sky makes a good point about the Kevin character too, if we're talking flavor.

I also don't see the town motivation after replacing in to just blanket townread the neighborhood (while Constantine admitted to having a hard time jumping into the game), then in the neighborhood PT flips to a scumread on Tunnel as an excuse to use their power to nuke a neighborhood and/or out certain powers (like the mass commute, and the fake dayvig that was clearly town motivated by Tunnel to prevent Constantine from nuking). The amished tell in 1772 (no idea why Bins did this) and the 1776 (tunnel is confscum) are p bad, then sending in the PM to nuke the neighborhood (realizing when he nukes a bunch of town powers, then it will appear super scummy) so he takes it back. No lack of remorse, then a brief bit of remorse (1812), then going back to saying it made his day (1820, 1828). The naked sheep of the NicCage wagon is notable too.

I will say, what gives me pause with Constantine is they don't really have scum motivation to come to my defense in 1885 in my 1v1 with Sonic, except in the case where Sonic happens to be town and Constantine is scum, trying to drive a mislynch of Sonic.

Finally - we either have a really powered town and then scum has to be really powered, or maybe we're giving everyone with these powers too much town cred:
- a day vig (ricastle)
- a reflexive kill and a mass commute of a large neighborhood they can create (Tunnel - flipped town)
- a gladiate (sonic)
- a vanillaizer of a whole neighborhood (Constantine)

Either Constantine or Sonic flipping could give us a lot of information.

[Fro99er]

Also, frogger: Any thoughts on my proposal?

Yeah, I'll ally with you. CoolDog hasn't really been too responsive anyway in our PT, so I don't know how much either of us are getting out of that, even though it's been good the times he does respond.

[Fro99er]

@Mod: Frog head of Frogging Mollie is V/LA until Sunday. I need a break from Mafia for a couple days because it's depressing me right now and I have family visiting until Sunday anyway so I should focus on what makes me happy

[Fro99er]

@Mod: Frog head of Frogging Mollie is V/LA until Sunday. I need a break from Mafia for a couple days because it's depressing me right now and I have family visiting until Sunday anyway so I should focus on what makes me happy

Whoops. Just Frog is V/LA. Copied from another game where I was in hydra

[Fro99er]

I forgot to put nic cage on my scum list.
That's how big this game has gotten for me.

So fuzzy, flum/boo slot, mastin, and cool are all null-ish for you?

[Fro99er]

I forgot to put nic cage on my scum list.
That's how big this game has gotten for me.

So fuzzy, flum/boo slot, mastin, and cool are all null-ish for you?

Yes

Ok I can work with this, because two of those are null for me, and I assume Mastin is not lying about becoming conftown tomorrow, because if she does she's conftown, and if she doesn't she's scum.

Cool I am townleaning/reading. I had a town read D1, but then his quick flip from voting sonic to voting me solely because of my vote force thing even though he was townreading me otherwise was weird, but maybe paranoid town. Then he wanted to vote sonic again. So I only see him as scum if he was using that as an opportunity to push two mislynches (myself and sonic), meaning in that world sonic would have to be town and I don't see that because Sonic is scum.

Fuzzy I've been null on for a bit now, but I still think he's not matching his scum meta. I can't say he's really been townie either.

I'll wait for Boo to catch up to try to get a better read on that slot, but Flum was super meh. Grapes, you were allied with Flum, right? What did you think of him?

[Fro99er]

@Maxwell

Actually fuck it, frogger's role is a scum role, vote: frogger

[Fro99er]

And then Cool said in our PT (paraphrasing) "After the BS I put you through, I think you're town" ... so his vote clearly was serious at one point, and he gives no other reason than my role (ability).

[Fro99er]

All the stuff Frogger is explaining about Cool makes me say he is scum.

@Cool, can you explain for your Frogger read? Is Frogger being truthful that you told him in the PT that you were town-reading him?

See, I'm reading it as paranoid town, but possibly only scummy if sonic flips town. I'm not reading cool as scum trying to buddy me to push a sonic mislynch, because cool really hasn't been buddying, even though he's called me town, it's more on an "I think you're town" level, then he decided i was scum briefly, now an I think you're town again. Neither buddying like an enthusiastic "hey you're town! Lets bust the scum" level, nor buddying on a consistent basis like I see scum try to do.

[Fro99er]

That, and Cool's scumread of Sonic formed independently from mine - so really doesn't feel like a buddy attempt to push a mislynch.

[Fro99er]

lol, I was just about to ask that.

I've rolled scum once, and it was with sonic. So he's obviously lying because he knows my scum meta.

I also like how sonic doesn't post for 2.5 days, then as soon as maxwell says where's sonic, BOOM, he pops up 4 minutes later.

[Fro99er]

Also, except for responding to a question about his character race ("other"), none of sonic's posts since his return last page have either advanced the game or shown any evolution in his thought process.

pedit: bullshit sonic, and you know it

[Fro99er]

Farside, yes, I'll push grapes with you at some point

You mean that guy coasting through who hasn't posted in almost 3 days?

Almost forgot about him

[Fro99er]

We're 4.5 days until deadline and:

- Flum/Boo is doing nothing
- Grapes is MIA...again
- NicCage hasn't done a lot recently/at all
- Replaced In has done next to ZERO scum hunting
- CooLDoG finally returned so I hope he can help move this game forward soon
- Mastin isn't even really playing until tomorrow
- Constantine hasn't done much scumhunting outside of the PT/threat thing
- sonic finally returned after 2.5 days

It's like a 10 or 11 player game right now. It would be great to at least head toward some consolidation of votes in the next day or two.

[Fro99er]

Then he will potshot with dumb shit like the above above post

lol, I was just about to ask that.

I've rolled scum once, and it was with sonic. So he's obviously lying because he knows my scum meta.

I also like how sonic doesn't post for 2.5 days, then as soon as maxwell says where's sonic, BOOM, he pops up 4 minutes later.

That's not even a potshot. That's me saying you are lying because you are, and stating another fact of the game.

I took only ONE potshot in my scum game and that was because I felt like Tammy was holding my brother (Glork) up to some ungodly expecations because of his past scumhunting awesomeness, and glork doesn't want to tryhard like he did in the past, and it made the game no fun for Glork and he replaced out (that and the modding snafu that screwed our plan). I would have taken that potshot in defense of my brother as town or as scum.

[Fro99er]

Fro99er, describe your scum meta.

Overly try hard, over analyzing, tunnely (i bascially tunneled the bella/tammy slot then the ducky slot all game), not at all trying to figure out the game because I don't have to.

When I'm town, I try to figure out the game like I did in our fruit game or newbie 1609 Ric.

[Fro99er]

I am beginning to think that skybird is scum, she would trust my powers if she was town. She might be scum with frogger. I am very annoyed now.

Skybird's pretty town. She's scumreading you, yet willing to listen to you about other's cases on me. That's not scum motivation by her...it's just you trying to push another mislynch.

[Fro99er]

Fro99er, on fuzzy: So you'll only scumread him if he matches his scum meta?

No. It helped me be neutral/town on him at first. The reason I wasn't solid town on him was because he hasn't been very good this game until recently. His D1 posting right around 1031 started to go downhill, especially talking about how his strategy didn't work (??), but it could have been a D1 haze. His last post was actually not bad though. D2 he is starting to come into focus, at least putting a case on Hermit that makes sense, and providing a steadfast stance on me vs sonic as TvT after scumreading Sonic prior.

Contrast that to Nic Cage who has still been out of focus D2, with waffly reads, and a lack of motivation to even play at all. I haven't seen a solid scum read out of him yet on D2, and then add the lurking to boot. Not to mention his weird approach to Sonic.....

[Fro99er]

I'm not interested in lynching fuzzy right now. There are better lynches.

[Fro99er]

@Nic I'll respond tomorrow when I'm not phone posting and drunk.

[Fro99er]

@grapes so we see eye to eye on nic cage?

[Fro99er]

@NicCage - as requested

Spoiler: Nic on Sonic

I'm also caught up. I think Max, mastina, Sonic X, vezo and farside are all probably town.

Sonic is town (unexplained)

As far as Ricastle goes, I'm not a fan. Going after beer is lame and easy, if he's town he'd be the number 1 thing scum would latch onto, and I thought his following push on Sonic X was really awful I have no idea why Ricastle voted for him and I can't imagine how there is some kind of PoE that could take place between Sonic and beer. I'm baffled at how a townread could come out of that.

Yeah you know what I think he's scum. VOTE: Ricastle

Attack ricastle for push on sonic

I think Max, mastina, Sonic X, vezo and farside are all probably town.

I have no idea why you were townreading Sonic X at that stage and I haven't seen you make it clear yet.

I get it, I reread his ISO later and kind of fell off on that. I don't know at this moment if I think he's leaning scum, but he's not feeling town for me at all anymore. Initially I felt like he was town because his early reads post, I think it's 156 off the top of my head, mirrored mine at the time. I also felt like his reaction to ricastle's push was genuine, and I interpreted the fake daykill as a reaction test. But when I reread those things felt a lot weaker than they did on first impression. I'll work on him tomorrow.

So someone pressures you on your unexplained sonic town read and you explain now but back off (because you know your reasons weren't very good???)

No no, sorry. I wasn't scumreading ricastle for attacking beer, I was scumreading him for attacking sonic and beer and saying with certainty that there was at least one scum among the two. Which isn't that awful, but when he called it PoE it bothered me a bit. I never thought beer was town, I still don't, I just felt that he would make an easy target. It wasn't really a defining part of my read, it was an additional accusation. Actually, I decided to vote ricastle while making that post. I was really more interested in your slot, in part because I felt like the ricastle townread from titus was unjustified. I wanted to talk about it, but that line of questioning petered out with titus not commenting and just asking what PoE meant, so I figured I'd work on something else and wait for you to show up.

I wanna add grapes to my townlist, and Marquis and Ricastle are leaning town for me now. Sonic is null until I reread him. Nothing else has changed. I'll follow-up this tomorrow with anything I'm suspicious of.

Same post as prior, admit scumreading ricastle for attacking sonic and beer, yet sonic is null now.

Cheeto, I'm working on that now. My vote isn't hurting anything sitting there on Ricastle. I'm sure he doesn't mind.

NicCage, what changed your Ricastle scumread to a slight townread?

Well it seemed like a fair amount of people felt like he was townish enough, so I figured maybe I was overreacting to his tone or style or whatever you want to call it. It seemed overconfident, but that's not necessarily a bad thing D1. He's really not doing anything particularly wrong, and I felt like he was being genuine enough in chasing his scumreads. Plus I'm not townreading Sonic anymore so his attack on him bothered me less.

Not townreading sonic (but didn't say scumreading). Post 933 was null, this is 958 and sonic didn't post between 933 and 958, so I'll assume this not townreading means null.

I felt like Sonic's criticism of Beer's attack on them was legitimate, and that was that they were basically just saying "this post is bad" with a lot more words.

"Sonic's criticism of Beer was legit"

NicCage, I'd like to hear your thoughts on these players:

Fro99er
Sonic X
TunnelWarriors
Reasonably Rational
St Constantine the Hermit
TheFuzzylogic99

Sonic X is hard for me to sort out. I'm starting to change my mind on him a bit, and I'm thinking maybe he isn't scum after all and is just obnoxious and sloppy. I don't really see the scum motivation for trying to gladiate on D2, or even at the end of D1, since that would get him into a lot of hot water. I'm assuming that role makes it a vote off between him and his target.

Sonic isn't scum, but town now (but where did you ever scum read him?).

[Fro99er]

Was that at me?

[Fro99er]

farside, that's part of my case, and yes, that part is an association.

Basically - nic townreads sonic unexplained and defends him from ricastle. But he doesn't really have any good reasons. As soon as he's asked for those reasons to townread sonic, he backs off hard townreading his buddy for BS reasons and throws him in the null pile (yet still agrees with a read of Sonic's later). Then D2 when asked about sonic, he says sonic's no longer scummy (???) and more town now because of his gladiate thing.

But I've given other reasons for Nic too. See 2168, 2353

[Fro99er]

I was about to move my vote as well.

To who? (glad you are staying on Sonic though)

[Fro99er]

Yeah this seems good.

vote replace in

Didn't you defend Replace's Lion claim? Or at least use it to attack me?

[Fro99er]

What are you even talking about?

[Fro99er]

Do you have anything to back up me being scum other than a prior setup? I'm town town and when you fuck this game up because you are basing everything off a prior from who knows how far back that's ridiculous.

What is your case on me besides gladiate/ascetic from a prior game and I look like I scum slipped when I didn't?

[Fro99er]

Screw it, you people are probably too lazy to track it down yourself. Here, have the relevant excerpts:

Once during the game, you may target a player. For the rest of the game day, the only votes that will be counted will be against you and your target.

Any non-killing action that targets you will fail.

Varsoon, the mod of this game, was in the game these two role PMs came from. (As the partner to the Mafia Ascetic.)

Sound familiar?

So I repeat.

Sonic X is town. Fro99er is scum.

LIKE REALLY? IS THIS YOUR CASE ON ME?

[Fro99er]

@Mastin - How am I being insincere in my PT with cooldog?

[Fro99er]

and how am I "losing a 1v1 with sonic" ... can you give examples?

[Fro99er]

Everything I'm hearing from it simply isn't sounding like the PT of a town player interacting with an unknown-alignment player. (Cooldog.)

What? Like what? Specific examples help because I don't understand where and why you are getting completely confused about mine and cool's PT.

[Fro99er]

Every time Sonic made a point against you (okay, I shouldn't say every time, but the majority of the time), I agreed with it; every time you made a point against Sonic, I disagreed very strongly with it.

LIKE WHAT?

WHY CAN YOU NOT GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES?

[Fro99er]

Trench Warfare
Sonic X

gladiate

farside22
Ricastle

dayvig

St Constantine the Hermit/Bins

Vanillafything

Reasonably Rational

So those are your town reads. Add in the conftown mass commute/reflexive kill by TunnelWarriors and you claiming you are conftown tomorrow, then what kind of powers do you think scum has, and why haven't we seen any yet?

Answer: either one of Sonic or Constantine is probably scum (as I've already said). Also the preflip wagon analysis is p bad.

Also, where the fuck is CooLDoG and Grapes (again). Since a sonic lynch isn't happening, I want to move my vote but not without cool's consent that at least if he disagrees he can be around to immediately move his vote.

[Fro99er]

I'm just glad you finally put a case on me other than I'm mod confirmed scum because Varsoon-gladiate-ascetic and two other points you refused to provide specific examples for. Just generalizations you haven't backed up.

[Fro99er]

Yeah, I just didn't know what to call it. You have a limited ability removing ability

[Fro99er]

Either way, that's pretty powerful

[Fro99er]

Like, why would Replace In try to clear me via flavor? That's not scum motivation to try to clear someone (me) who was/is being somewhat widely scum read (at the time even more so than now)

[Fro99er]

This push is strategic as fuck.

I don't see it as strategic for CooLDoG to push you to save Replace In, unless both Replace In and CooLDoG are both scum.

But even in the PT with me he says he's good with lynching Replace In over Constantine so, no, RI and CooLDoG aren't both scum. He could have gone for Constantine if he wanted, so to want Replace if they were both scum makes no sense.

Unless he was worried about Constantine getting lynched and they are both scum given he knows I'm scum reading constantine...then I guess that could make sense. IDK. If that were the case he probably would have just voted Replace In instead of voting you.

[Fro99er]

I mean...the only one it makes sense for Cool to want to strategically save if Cool was scum is constantine. So why didn't he jsut vote Replace in if that were the case?

Cool is just misguided, I think, instead of scum. But IDK. He's waffling on Sonic now too.

pedit: okay that makes sense, in which case that IS scummy to find a bullshit opening to push ricastle, because ricastle is CLEARLY townreading me.

[Fro99er]

what do you think of cooldog?

I was pretty solid townreading him D1, which is why I allied with him.

When he voted me simply for my voting ability, that felt like opportunistic scum...that he could place his vote on either sonic or myself during our 1v1. But that would mean sonic would have to be town. So I believe either Cool or Sonic is scum. I still think Sonic, but I'm starting to wonder.

Other than that, he hasn't really done a whole lot to ping my scum radar. But I guess he hasn't really been super towny either by avoiding this game and finally taking a strong, but misguided at best stance on Ricastle.

[Fro99er]

Fro99er: Hmm. I'll be honest, in all the noise sonic was making about you being scum, I kinda missed your opinion on sonics slot. Do you think he's scum?

You're joking, right?

[Fro99er]

Yeah. I thought you mean the timing was strategic because of the wagons, but RR helped me realize what you meant by strategic.

His push on you IS complete bullshit, but I don't know if it's bullshit because he's not paying attention or because he's scum.

[Fro99er]

By the way...it's CooLDoG's birthday. A nice birthday present. We got you a wagon!

[Fro99er]

I honestly like the Mastin Frogger case and even though everyone else said no I'm gonna put my vote there
VOTE: Fro99er

What do you like about it? Have you made your own case on me yet, or just full sheeping Mastin?

From what I can gather, mastin's case is:

- Frog is ascetic and sonic is gladiate therefore frog is scum
- Frog has a vote force therefore frog is scum
- Frog has been sketchy in his PT with cool therefore frog is scum (yet hasn't provided any specific examples when asked)
- Frog lost his 1v1 with sonic and therefore frog is scum (yet again didn't provide any specific examples when asked)
- Frog is scum because beer and cheetory said so (while ignoring marquis said I'm town)

[Fro99er]

People have been resistent to pretty much every wagon D2. Look at the Replace In wagon that just fell apart. Sonic's wagon had 4 people at one point and others suspecting him but went nowhere. Constantine's wagon, my wagon.

Also, please respond to my post 2513 as well.

[Fro99er]

Frogger's posting has been fairly bad overall: there are admittedly large chunks in the middle that are okay, but both near the beginning and the end, it's nothing but bad posting. That, not even going into the Raging Bull posting which was just terrible.

Can you, for a third point, provide specific examples? You have yet to provide specific examples for two prior points, and now a third.

[Fro99er]

Add in the conftown mass commute/reflexive kill by TunnelWarriors and you claiming you are conftown tomorrow, then what kind of powers do you think scum has, and why haven't we seen any yet?

I think we have: YOURS! Ascetic for town = macho-miller essentially, unable to be investigated or protected. Ascetic for SCUM? SUPERIOR in strength to a Godfather, because it effectively makes them half-ninja (immune to trackers), half-strongman (immune to roleblockers), and COMPLETE godfather (immune to cops, rolecops, gunsmiths, vanilla cops, and whatnot). Throw in the vote thief power? You've got one heck of a strong scum role.

So you think we have

dayvig
gladiate
whatever constantine's power is
reflexive kill/mass commute
you conftown D3
masons

that can't all be town there. No way.

[Fro99er]

Cool, what's your read on Frogger now? And why is replace a bad wagon?

Cool said he'd vote Replace. Where are you getting this?

[Fro99er]

Cooldog highlighted my vote on RI and called the wagon easy as a point against me. It's why he's scum, Fro99er.

Yet he was willing to vote it.

And to hammer me despite town reading me.


Hmmm...

[Fro99er]

Oh my bad, it's just I thought he called out ric for voting replace in as an easy wagon or something, so I thought that was inconsistent with how he ought to feel.

Yeah. Both. So this is weird.

[Fro99er]

Weirdly enough, I can make Cool vote himself...

[Fro99er]

edit: Still, why wouldn't frogger claim ascetic right away? Since he had already mentioned he was bp I just don't see why he would let sonic flail about when he actually should have know the reason for why the gladiate failed.

The BP claim was never serious. I'm not BP.

ika made the BP claim was because he got drunk, lost at poker and was frustrated, and took it out by trolling the thread. I reacted to it with joking back because I could tell that's what he was doing because we've played together before and he's drunk raged like that before.

ika was then too embarassed to show his face in here after that, and he got our slot a warning and PMd me he replaced out because of that because he knew I wanted to play steven universe which is why I pre-inned and didn't want me force replaced for his actions


Why didn't I claim ascetic D1? Because I've never ever seen ascetic until now and didn't know that's how its typcially played (just like I never knew miller was supposed to claim in post 1 until I saw grapes do it). Hell, the first time I ever played scum, I claimed scum because I thought I was fooling people (this was 5 months ago in a RL game). I've been a quick learner, but I don't know typical play for every role yet.

[Fro99er]

Hey Frogger, do you have an opinion on us yet?

Your slot's reaction to the dayvig was very towny. I said that somewhere but can't remember if it was in thread or in the PT with cool. I can dig it up.

[Fro99er]

Do you know Ika personally? Just curious.

I've played with him three times and we chat a lot, but never met him in person. He seems a lot like me as well so I'm sure that's why we get on well.

[Fro99er]

Nic - of course I've tried to figure out your alignment. I even said you were focused D1 and I wasn't scum reading you then, but I am now since you went all out of focus on D2, which is opposite of fuzzy.

When did you scum read sonic, because you said you moved away from scum but into town, and I never saw where you scum read sonic prior (just a null read).

Of course you don't like my points against you, so you're voting me for OMGUS? I don't like Mastin's points against me because they are crap. Nobody should be ok with a case against themselves, town or scum. I'm not pushing you for OMGUS, but that's part of the basis for your case against me. I pushed Sonic first, he OMGUS me too, and he's never actually made a case on me. NEVER. Other than this is my meta and what "beer, grapes, and vezok said".

As for the flavor, sonic is a fucking light prism! It's from a video game where the theme is to attack the light because the light prism breaks and releases a bunch of horrible boss creatures.

[Fro99er]

So you think Ika's referencing Bp, has nothing to do with your actual role?

Why are you insinuating I don't eve know my own role?

I am not BP

[Fro99er]

it looks like the Hermit wagon is filled with my scumreads.

Then why were you on the Hermit wagon with them???

[Fro99er]

That's a bunch of crap by Replace In. He was the last one on the Hermit wagon of the four that were on the wagon at the time he just switched to Cool. So he voluntarily joined his "scum reads" on the wagon.

[Fro99er]

CooLDoG you can go ahead and change the vote if you want to put it back on Ricastle or elsewhere. I want to get this vote in before it's L-2 so that I don't force you to hammer Replace.

VOTE: Replace In

I'm done waffling on him. That comment about the Constantine wagon being all scum reads (even though he was the last to join the Constantine wagon of those currently voting Constantine) is absolute BS. Why did he join a bunch of scum reads on a wagon?

Constantine is therefore probably town, and so is Cool by extension. Replace is just trying to push a mislynch wherever he can by joining whatever wagon has the most momentum at the time that is opposite his wagon (he is therefore saying the wagon on him was 100% town motivated because the three people who moved to CooLDoG wagon were voting him as well just prior...this is a huge buddy/appease attempt by Replace In...vezok is essentially conftown, Constantine then becomes town as a mislynch Replace is pushing, and farside is pretty towny).

[Fro99er]

^right, obviously if Replace flips scum is what I'm referring to with both Cool and Constantine.

[Fro99er]

yeah...that's exactly why I DIDN'T want to lynch him even though I was scum reading him/his slot earlier was for that claim (not because Lion is a cool character, which Lion is, but because by flavor it's a town character).

But his play has just been too scummy.

[Fro99er]

Read it again. That's not what I said. I was scum reading you earlier. Then your claim made me rethink my read on you as possibly town.

[Fro99er]

I didn't want to lynch you for that claim EVEN THOUGH I was scum reading you earlier (as in, before that claim).

[Fro99er]

yeah...

that's exactly why I DIDN'T want to lynch him

(even though I was scum reading him/his slot earlier)

was for that claim

(not because Lion is a cool character, which Lion is, but because by flavor it's a town character).

But his play has just been too scummy.

you were scum reading me for my claim? But you didn't want to lynch me because of my claim?

Maybe the bold and parentheses help...it was worded a bit weird, I'll concede that.

[Fro99er]

That's a bunch of crap by Replace In. He was the last one on the Hermit wagon of the four that were on the wagon at the time he just switched to Cool. So he voluntarily joined his "scum reads" on the wagon.

I didn't notice until now, actually.

But you did notice earlier your wagon was all town reads (except constantine...see below), so why didn't you even consider the constantine wagon was all your scum reads?

Ah yes, the common buzztell "the wagon built too fast"...almost always bullshit. Look at the wagon composition. Me & Vezok are conftown. Far voted ages ago and when there was only one vote on Replace In (mine). Trench was the first to pile on in that page. Where is the scum vote here?

You shouldn't of pushed me
VOTE: Replace In

Cheers!

found it!

[Fro99er]

Maxwell what do you make of Cool's push then?