Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[Keyser Söze]

"Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night,
may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."

My opening message to the three werewolves:

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long mafia career. Skills that make me a nightmare for scum like you. If you leave our village now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't,

I will look for you,

I

will

find you,

and

I will kill you

.

READ SUMMARY [TOWN: () NULL TOWN-LEAN: () NULL: (WoodyWoodpecker, Bulbazoor, TonyMontana, Kmd4390, BlueBloodedToffee, absta101, Banakai, RedCoyote, Zoronos, Haschel Cedricson, redFF, Vinkah) NULL SCUM-LEAN: () SCUM: ()]

[Keyser Söze]

Vote: Bulbazoor. He knows why.

VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

Reason (1): Giving up both yourself and your werewolf teammate so easily.
Reason (2): I do not know how to pronounce your name.
Reason (3): You have hairy palms.
Reason (4): You howl at the moon.

[Keyser Söze]

Modified Werewolf 13er
Tales of RVS
Page 1

Observation:

RedCoyote has yet to make a post, despite the thread being open for nearly an hour.

Theory:

Is it RedCoyote's plan to ride all this pressure by lurking for the rest of Day 1?

Conclusion:

Scum never lurk. Therefore, RedCoyote is town. Anybody voting for RedCoyote is possibly opportunistic scum (TonyMontana, BlueBloodedToffee and WoodyWoodpecker).

[Keyser Söze]

Modified Werewolf 13er
Tales of RVS
Page 1

how serious is that?

VOTE: Vinkah

[Keyser Söze]

I can't imagine that is anything but sarcasm.

Let

me

reply if I was being serious

Vinkah, no I was not being serious - were you?

[Keyser Söze]

i was seriously asking you if you were serious, yes. i suppose the rp'ing threw me off.

Did you feel like any of it had a basis of truth to it to make you think I was being serious?

[Keyser Söze]

i was seriously asking you if you were serious, yes. i suppose the rp'ing threw me off.

Did you feel like any of it had a basis of truth to it to make you think I was being serious?

i wasn't sure. why i asked.

What if I'd said I

was

being serious - what would have been your reply?

[Keyser Söze]

Wagon analysis is not something I'm good at. But let's talk - what do you feel you've learned so far from your wagon on Coyote?

Kyser seems to be bouncing around a lot. That suggests, to me, a lack of worry about perception.

That leans slightly towny

. Agree / disagree?

I agree! ...and don't let anyone tell you differently.

RedCoyote's wagon picked up 2 votes, but didn't gain further support.
Haschel Cedricson was the 2nd wagon, initiated by myself.
My only worthy note was when Vinkah asked me if I was being serious about my comments on RedCoyote's wagon. Looking back, I should have replied yes and waited for his natural response. I did initially question the sincerity of his question though.

[Keyser Söze]

Question

Who has played Mafia with eachother before?

I know Bulbazoor and BlueBloodedToffee.

[Keyser Söze]

I'd rather Bulb explained it.

Will he be in a safe position to explain it?

i.e Does it relate to any ongoing games?

Have you played mafia games with anyone here?

[Keyser Söze]

Can I just state that all my posts/votes/reads are now non-RVS and are now serious.

[Keyser Söze]

You know, RVS could prove useful if we get a decent wagon going...

i agree tbh
VOTE: haschel

does anyone else find it hard to read the mod text, the yellow is too bright

I agree that there is

value

in early wagon analysis too.

I find the mod's text perfectly readable. I like the yellow on black contrast. I also like it when the mod posts a running narrative to the game.

[Keyser Söze]

Do you not pay attention often?

From your observational experience, is

'not paying attention'

alignment indicative?

I would read strong cases of

'not paying attention'

as either anti-town or scummy behaviour.

[Keyser Söze]

WoodyWoodpecker, I have not played with you before, but would you say you make a habit of making mistakes/slips as both town and scum?

[Keyser Söze]

I have never seen someone use the Hack 'n slash adventure game

Swordigo

as an excuse for inattentiveness. I will be keeping an eye on WoodyWoodpecker's activity and observations.

[Keyser Söze]

And I'd be like "cause I totally didn't see it" and it would be the truth because when I came back to the thread it was on page 2, he got votes on page 3

And I'd be like 'You could totally be lying because I find it strange that you would miss the most prominent issue in the thread whilst commenting on a minor issue such as ongoings. Then, I'd do this;

VOTE: Woody

I associate choosing when and what to comment on as possible scum-play.

VOTE: WoodyWoodpecker

[Keyser Söze]

@Mod

. A VC would be very much appreciated.

[Keyser Söze]

Haschel Cedricson defends WoodyWoodpecker and re-directs attention to BlueBloodedToffee and Keyser Söze - noted.

[Keyser Söze]

Haschel Cedricson defends WoodyWoodpecker and re-directs attention to BlueBloodedToffee and Keyser Söze - noted.

Why is that suspicious? The attention on me is for BS reasoning

When a player is under pressure I believe it is best to see the full cycle of the interrogation (whatever the reasons, whether they be stupid/bs/logical). If someone disrupts this pressure, I think to myself:

- does that player not want this player under pressure?
- does is sound like that player knows the alignment of that player?

I believe WoodyWoodpecker had 2 votes. No player was at risk of being lynched. I would have liked to seen the full argument from both WoodyWoodpecker and BlueBloodedToffee, giving me a better read of their logic, behaviour and thought-process.

[Keyser Söze]

Why would you

sign up for a game and then not read it

?

If that was me, it would be for either anti-town or scummy reasons.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't like this post from him though

Question

Who has played Mafia with eachother before?

I know Bulbazoor and BlueBloodedToffee.

It's a pointless question that didn't need to be asked.

Do you think scum are more thoughtful with what questions they ask everybody? Or do feel scum make a habit of asking pointless questions?


I use those type of questions as a comfort-filler test - which players are open to answering it? Which players will flag it, and ignore more important in-game reads/votes/behaviour?

[Keyser Söze]

It's a weak read but like I said,

he's been really active

; that's something I do not expect from scum.

Do you believe high-activity is alignment indicative?
Do you believe low-activity is alignment indicative?

[Keyser Söze]

Early

theory

on BlueBloodedToffee-WoodyWoodpecker: I believe one or none are scum - not both.

I believe it would have been too risky of a scum gambit to throw attention on eachother this early.

[Keyser Söze]

When a player is under pressure I believe it is best to see the full cycle of the interrogation (whatever the reasons, whether they be stupid/bs/logical).

That's dumb. If you see somebody being interrogated for bad reasoning you are going to sit back and let it happen? Thats anti-town behavior imo

I would allow them to explain their full thought-process, allowing each player to come under pressure,

then

add my thoughts.

[Keyser Söze]

Early roleclaim from WoodyWoodpecker His anti-town behaviour has been noted. He has reacted negatively/poorly under pressure - therefore, I believe both town and scum would have comfortable reasons to vote for him without raising suspicion,

he is the easy lynch

- this makes me want to unvote and analyse his wagon.

UNVOTE: WoodyWoodpecker

[Keyser Söze]

redFF, been looking at your ISO. I have noticed the high majority of your posts have been focused on solely on WoodyWoodpecker. Do you have any reads or comments on any other players?

[Keyser Söze]

To explain my concern redFF: I feel it is possibly scummy/anti-town behaviour to channel solely on the leading wagon while not looking and posting observations on other players.

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, put pressure on your strong scum read, but I would recommend applying pressure on other players too - I want to to hear your reads on everyone.

it's still early game. keyser could u answer my question in this post pls, a post that has nothing to do with woody

I'd already answered that question earlier in the game:

I use those type of questions as a comfort-filler test - which players are open to answering it? Which players will flag it, and ignore more important in-game reads/votes/behaviour?

You had already answered my simple question earlier too. If you personally thought it was pointless, why did you revisit it with a different answer?

[Keyser Söze]

Bulbazoor, please could you break up your big paragraphs of observations into smaller paragraphs so that they are easier to read/analyse. Or even add (brackets) to isolate your reads/conclusions within them, cheers.

[Keyser Söze]

His anti-town behaviour

No anti-town behavior from me. Nice try though. Claiming at l-1 or essentially being at l-1 when you aren't going to be around for an extended period of time is good town play.

If you are town-aligned it was

anti-town

:
- you have decreased the PR-pool for the werewolves
- If you are not lynched the werewolves will now keep you alive as lynch-bait.
- we are barely 24 hours into the game with a roleclaim. You have been the most active player so far, possessing the most time to defend yourself.
- you've even admitted you don't care if you're lynched as you are currently playing many other mafia games to fall back on - this is not a pro-town attitude.
- you've admitted you won't change your playstyle and do whatever you want.

I must now decide whether you are an anti-town townie who doesn't care about our win-con (I unvoted for this possible reason), or you are a werewolf who has been reacting poorly to pressure and is acting like a Swordigo-playing early-roleclaim character.

[Keyser Söze]

WoodyWoodpecker, what do you currently think about redFF's and absta101's line of attack on you?

Do you feel it has some basis of truth to it, or is it all miss-reps?

No one is a closed case. I need to hear your side.

[Keyser Söze]

Pedit - its scummy cause I'm scum? :faceplam:

It's scummy because your actions are not those of a townie. I feel I have explained this sufficiently.

My reservation remains that townies can be anti-town too. The WoodyWoodpecker wagon feels too easy to be scum-lynch.

I will now look at which players stood on the periphery while The People vs WoodyWoodpecker trial unfolded.

[Keyser Söze]

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

Please can I have added quote-thought-process analysis on this statement. I am not satisfied with your reasons.

[Keyser Söze]

Looking at Vinkah's ISO, I don't know where he is:

- No reads
- A single RVS vote still on woodywoodpecker
- no scum-hunting

Is it his intention to stay out of focus?

[Keyser Söze]

Did Vinkah just beetlejuice?

He may have just been online at the right place at the right time




I will be going through my reads soon.

[Keyser Söze]

TonyMontana

(2 posts) Null-read.
No effort to scum hunt. Need some input from TonyMontana.

Zoronos

(16 posts) Town-read.

Wagon analysis is not something I'm good at. But let's talk - what do you feel you've learned so far from your wagon on Coyote?

Kyser seems to be bouncing around a lot. That suggests, to me, a lack of worry about perception. That leans slightly towny. Agree / disagree?

Commenting about perception shows his awareness of perception - this initially raised alarm bells. I liked his '

what do you feel you've learned

' question, this points to a scum-hunting mind-set. "

Let's talk

" - I will accept this invitation when I want to compare notes with Zoronos.

Haschel's RVS vote on Bulb looked to me like a joke / shared experience nod. 16 looks LAMIST; he is presuming seriousness instead of thinking about tone / context of the post.

A valid point. Only absta101 will be able to tell us the tone on his question and his intentions. But Zoronos' explanation 'fits'.

Absta - Why do you feel Kaiser is town? Specifically kaiser; I am rather uninterested in the reasons for me and BBT.

A willingness to challenge the reasons for people's town-reads - I like this.

Vinkah - BBT asked you earlier about your read on Haschel. You were waiting on a response from him, and he has since responded. Any thoughts?

I asked Vinkah a question, but I will repeat it since I am going to assume he missed it: Way back pages ago he (Vinkah) had posed a question to Haschel, but he never bothered to follow up. I want to know what Vinkah thinks as a result of that question.

Good memory and observation - Zoronos shows an eye for people to follow through with their questions.

Bulbazoor's post by post's at Woody are very scummy - he's attacking a lot of non-alignment indicating stuff.

I will need to look at Bulbazoor's accusations later.

[Keyser Söze]

Kmd4390

(7 posts) Town Read.

I like his observations - he is explaining what he is thinking and likes to share how he sees things from his perspective. I would love to hear his thoughts on my posts/actions so far.

RedCoyote

(1 post) Null Read.

Most of his single post was fluff. I enjoyed reading his thoughts on WoodyWoodpecker though:

Does this game only last a few minutes or did he feel like he was unable to leave the thread long enough lest he get lynched? I'll let y'all in on a secret... when I am scum, sometimes I get worried about leaving the thread if I think I am in a bad spot. As town, I do not feel as anxious.

RedCoyote reads me as "possible scum" which I would love to hear more on. If I could hear the thought-process of his 'possible scum' read it would aid my read on him.

[Keyser Söze]

Alright, i'm back. For starters, I don't think you need to be making full cases for why certain players seem town (@Keyser).

If you think I am town, aren't you interested in my reads?
If you think I am scum, aren't you interested in my reads?

I currently have a scum-lean read on you, so I hope you can appreciate my reads and discuss/challenge them. No one is a closed case.

[Keyser Söze]

However I will shamelessly hammer him if he gets to -1 just to remove him from the game, because his spamposting annoys the shit out of me.

Regardless of what alignment you may think he is?

[Keyser Söze]

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

Please can I have added quote-thought-process analysis on this statement. I am not satisfied with your reasons.

As for red ff, I just liked his posts, but he posted some questionable things now

#168 is a little meh but I shouldnt talk as I pretty much did the same thing
#176 was probbably his best post, both a good question and observation about scum in rvs
#181 is a little forced
#187 is a very good question
#203 kinda concerns me with its tone though

1) What is your current read on redFF?

2) What was it about his early posts that made you announce "red ff is town" in the thread? Please could you quote the posts that made you have such an early strong town read on him.

[Keyser Söze]

Vote: Bulbazoor. He knows why.

Vote: Bulbazoor. He knows why.

Explain your vote on bulb.
VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

I'd rather Bulb explained it.

I do not know what cedric meant tbh with that statement.

Did we find resolution to this? It was one unresolved post from page 1 I'd flagged in my notes. Or should I move on...

[Keyser Söze]

[When I read Bulbazoor's posts I always take a step back and look at the reads each post expresses, instead of focusing on the emotion he is expressing.]

Summary on Bulbazoor's focus:

Post #135
Town-read: Vinkah, Keyser Söze, BlueBloodedToffee

Post #138
Town-read: Keyser Söze
Scum-read: WoodyWoodpecker, BlueBloodedToffee
Votes: WoodyWoodpecker

Post #141
Town-read: Vinkah, Keyser Söze

Post #172
Town-read: BlueBloodedToffee, Kmd4390, Keyser Söze
Scum-read: WoodyWoodpecker

Post #254
Scum-read: WoodyWoodpecker

Post #267
Scum-read: BlueBloodedToffee

Post #283
Town-read: absta101

Post #288
Town-read: Zoronos

Thoughts

Bulbazoor has scum-read WoodyWoodpecker very early, and has voted for his scum-read (consistency). His read on BlueBloodedToffee has been mixed (interestingly he is yet to vote for BlueBloodedToffee). Bulbazoor was "not content" joining the absta101 wagon - this is consistent with his read on absta101:

"Absta is ww or town. Instead of the latter, I believe him to he town because of the linez of thinking he posts. The conversation with kmd was fishy but It does not prove his alignment to be scum."

I believe he is yet to express strong scum reads other than on WoodyWoodpecker and BlueBloodedToffee.

I have a town-lean read on Bulbazoor so far.

[Keyser Söze]

At any rate,

Unvote

. I want to vote for somebody else, but

it's so hard to decide between Keyser and BlueBloodedToffee!

Have you made your mind up yet?

[Keyser Söze]

ne1 who joined this site after me is a massive newb + scrub tbh

Who? What? When? Where? How? And Why?

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Vinkah

This slot feels so uncomfortably awkward. I would use the adjective '

detached

'. Time for pressure.

[Keyser Söze]

RedCoyote

(1 post) Null Read.

Change of read: Scum-lean. The more times I read Post #152, the worse it gets.

[Keyser Söze]

Boonskiies replaces Vinkah.

This just adds to this slot's uncomfortable/awkwardness/detachment. To ask to be replaced out without even announcing it in the thread. I don't think he was even due a prod.

BOONSKIIES COLOR TIER LIST OF SCUM

Banzai guy

Keyser guy

Absta guy

I'll add other things to it later.

Don't use the mod's colour, otherwise this slot will be needing replacing yet again

Actually, I don't like 292[/url, or a couple of his posts above.

VOTE: Keyser

Something's off. He's putting a lot of 'pressure' related motives going through, but it looks like scum pushing for something until something sticks.

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum. ... 9]post 338, Boonskiies"]Oh, blue is null, pink is null lean scum. Haha, I'll put a color key in next time.

Something just feels off to me about Keyser, and I can't explain it. When I can, I'll be sure to make a case.[/quote]
Why is it my pressure (scum hunting) that you associate with scum, and not other player's slots? Is it my attention on a particular slot?

[Keyser Söze]

RedCoyote's lurking out this one it seems. No wonder I didn't remember anything about him. He has 1 post. This actually does make me a little suspicious of him, especially considering how Keyser wanted to put pressure on Vinkah for not being attached to the game. I am unsure as to why he didn't want to pressure RC.

I believe your slot still needs pressure but thank you for your current reads. I like activity.

I did want to draw attention to RedCoyote (see below), but I can only vote one slot. RedCoyote has only made one post. I also wanted TonyMontana to contribute more.

RedCoyote

(1 post) Null Read.

Change of read: Scum-lean. The more times I read Post #152, the worse it gets.

[Keyser Söze]

Why is it my pressure (scum hunting) that you associate with scum, and not other player's slots? Is it my attention on a particular slot?

Why Vinkah and not RC?

They are two separate players - I scum-lean-read them for two separate reasons. Show me where I neglected to raise attention on RedCoyote's slot?

[Keyser Söze]

Variation of the 'ol bus a buddy...vote a townie...eh? Nice play, scum. The variation I'm inferring to is the push on the RC lurkin'....then put attention onto Tony to end it!

There are other players I've mentioned who need to add more input. Why did you only mention RedCoyote?

[Keyser Söze]

292 is where I meant...

I wanted Banakai to explain how he got such a strong town read on redFF to say "redID is town". I then understood his thought process (saying someone is town without reasons is suspicious).
I also wanted Banakai to explain his current read on redFF. These questions and his answers gave me a town-lean read on him.

Why do you scum-read me for this? What makes it scum-alignment indicative to ask these questions?

[Keyser Söze]

Please could you explain your early town reads on Banakai and redFF.

[Keyser Söze]

It's actually pretty damning to them if one of them do indeed flip scum.

Can you explain this pre-flip associative theory of your statement please.

[Keyser Söze]

Please could you explain your early town reads on Banakai and redFF.

I only ask this because I am not satisfied by the reasons you currently town-read BlueBloodedToffee, neither am I satisfied with the reasons you scum-read me.

[Keyser Söze]

Banaki and Red I liked especially after the vihntax wagon formed.

Let me repeat myself for emphasis,

what

was it that you '

liked especially

' about Banakai and redFF to have a town-read on them.

I am still not satisfied with the reasons for your BlueBloodedToffee town-read - surely he should be a null-read at the moment, then based on his actions/gameplay/posts you would then either town/scum read him. To start him off as "town" concerns me.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, are you interested in forming an RC wagon?

Yes, we are now getting "activity" from the Vinkah/Boonskiies slot. To be honest, the awkwardness/uncomfortableness is multiplying (but I am unsure if this makes him scum). I am certainly not satisfied by the reasons/sincerity of his reads, so will continue my pressure on him.


VOTE: RedCoyote
I do not town-read you. And your effort not to scum-hunt has strengthened that.

No fluff. Activity please.

[Keyser Söze]

BlueBloodedToffee, are you concerned by Boonskiies having you as his #1 strongest town read based on the reasons stated?

Does he have a history of having "faux" town reads?

[Keyser Söze]

BlueBloodedToffee, does this knowledge about the Open Set-up effect your read of redFF or WoodyWoodPecker:

goddamnit why did u claim we're not even 12 hours into day 1 lol

villager is what a mafia would claim since its an open setup so u claiming early does nothing to show that you are town

why would u claim lol

godammnit

woody is scrub overly defensive town or werewolf

This post reads super fake. I was unaware this set up was an open set up, what gave you that idea?

The repetitive use of goddamnit accompanied my multiple 'lols' just doesn't feel right. It reads as feigned frustration.

[Keyser Söze]

I am concerned how Boonskiies has jumped onto a wagon that his #1 scum read is also on. He also unvoted me too easily (which adds to my worries about the strength/sincerity of his reads).

[Keyser Söze]

I.e does he actually believe in anything he is posting?

[Keyser Söze]

I want his response to Post 362 too.

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry guys but I noticed boonskiies replaced in and

I have vowed to never play with him again

. I could have sworn he said the same about me so I'm surprised he replaced in but whatever.

mod please replace me, unless the off chance you will find a different replacement for whoever boon replaced

Later

[Keyser Söze]

@Mod

. We need a replacement for WoodyWoodpecker

Can you also please give TonyMontana a gentle prod - he's been posting elsewhere but neglecting this game

[Keyser Söze]

redFF, what's your read on me?

[Keyser Söze]

@BlueBloodedToffee. Look at redFF's ISO - it's screaming for us to put pressure on him. Do you see this as a town or scum playstyle?

[Keyser Söze]

these are easy questions to ask that give the appearance of scumhunting but lack content

that said you've been active and pushing people. i'm not ready to call you town or scum yet

I would personally scum-read someone if I thought they were purposefully posting "filler" posts that "lack content" to act like they were scum-hunting. Your null read on me therefore interests me.

[Keyser Söze]

i had ww as scum for his massive overdefensiveness, but now that he is replacing out because someone he "doesn't like" has joined the game, it makes his in-game behaviour more believable as he may be a sensitive person who cannot take attacks very well

therefore he is becoming less of a scumread for me, what are people's thoughts

The more I read WoodyWoodpecker's posts the more genuine I thought he was.

[Keyser Söze]

cool, so you think the slot is town?

Yes, a town-lean on WoodyWoodpecker's slot at the moment - it was probably around page 10 (post #225 onwards) that I began to re-evaluate my read on WoodyWoodpecker - re-reading his posts I could see how his emotive posts could be from the perspective of a townie (even if I disagreed with his in-game attitude).

Taking a step back then allowed me to focus on the players who were both on WoodyWoodpecker's wagon and those who were sat on the periphery.

[Keyser Söze]

I just noticed after seeing Keyser quote it that

Ban's examples of questionable redff posts all came before ban said redff was town

. Interesting. I'm curious what made Ban change his mind.

This doesn't work; I already clarified what I meant by being active in post 123 which was before you asked me this question

But it wasn't before Keyser asked.

That is an interesting point.

Let's look at the chronology:

"

#168 is a little meh but I shouldnt talk as I pretty much did the same thing

"

[neutral]

"

#176 was probbably his best post, both a good question and observation about scum in rvs

"

[positive]

"

#181 is a little forced

"

[negative]

"

#187 is a very good question

"

[positive]
Banakai posts his read [Post #195, Banakai: "Also red ff is town"]

"#203 kinda concerns me with its tone though"

[negative]

It's only possibly Banakai's comment on post #181 which contradicts his town read of redFF.

[Keyser Söze]

Actually, I don't like 292, or a couple of his posts above.

VOTE: Keyser

Something's off

. He's putting a lot of 'pressure' related motives going through, but it

looks like scum

pushing for something until something sticks.

Something just feels off to me about Keyser

, and I can't explain it. When I can, I'll be sure to make a case.

Town

-

Lean Town

-

Null Town

-

Null Scum

-

Lean Scum

-

Scum

Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee
Banakai
redFF

WoodyWoodpecker

TonyMontana

RedCoyote

Zoronos
Haschel Cedricson

Kmd4390

Bulbazoor
absta101

Keyser Söze

Absta/

Keyser are my main scum reads

, but I don't think they are scum together. I do believe one of them is scum, though.

Also, oops. I'll make my town black next time. I actually don't like this. Needing replacement? Trying to get me replaced because

I'm onto you

? Eh?

Variation of the 'ol bus a buddy...vote a townie...eh?

Nice play, scum

. The variation I'm inferring to is the push on the RC lurkin'....then put attention onto Tony to end it!

Hmm...

curious...you just seem to have ALLLLLLL the right answers

....dontcha....-.-

VOTE: RedCoyote

meh, sure. I got nothing. I suck at open setups.

VOTE: RC

@Boonskiies, when you get back online, can you please explain what just happened
From my perspective it looks look like you voted for me and were representing me as scum. You then changed your vote to someone I had a scum-lean read on (someone you personally had a "Null Town" read on).

[Keyser Söze]

Haschel Cedricson has promised to contribute soon.
I agree about letting RedCoyote make a reply before adding more votes (he's only made the single post).
Tony Montana requires a violent prod or replacing.
Boonskiies needs to explain his reads.

[Keyser Söze]

How many of your 28 posts so far have been sincere?

You are redefining what it means to be "anti-town".

[Keyser Söze]

I'm just going to say right now, BBT has pretty much caught me out as scum in every scum game I've been in with him. The fact that I'm still null to him should show you that my antics are just Boon being annoying.

I am personally not concerned with your previous games. Judging by your anti-town behaviour so far

in this game

you demonstrate to me that you want to be lynched.

The awkwardness/uncomfortableness/insincerity of this slot is unreal

[Keyser Söze]

How many of your reads/votes were sincere?

[Keyser Söze]

It's Day 1. None of my reads/votes are ever set in stone, but at times of posting they are all sincere.

Please explain your "sincere" town-reads:

Banaki and Red I liked especially after the vihntax wagon formed.

Let me repeat myself for emphasis,

what

was it that you '

liked especially

' about Banakai and redFF to have a town-read on them.

I am still not satisfied with the reasons for your BlueBloodedToffee town-read - surely he should be a null-read at the moment, then based on his actions/gameplay/posts you would then either town/scum read him. To start him off as "town" concerns me.

[Keyser Söze]

If you are a townie, do not encourage a miss-lynch on your slot by posting anti-town 'annoying Boon antics.'

I still cannot find your sincere explanation where you revealed what it was that you 'liked especially' about Banakai and redFF, to have an early town-read on them. Please quote me the post number.

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry guys but I noticed boonskiies replaced in and I have vowed to never play with him again. I could have sworn he said the same about me so I'm surprised he replaced in but whatever.

Go ahead and hate on me and insult me some more like banakai did. (BTW banakai I'm not an idiot, so FU)

mod please replace me, unless the off chance you will find a different replacement for whoever boon replaced

Later

Ok, now this makes sense

[Keyser Söze]

Then stop pushing at me to respond, simple as that.

I asked you a simple question: explain your town reads.

It goes against the spirit of the game if you knowingly post like a "village idiot". How am I supposed to react and analyse your reads and analysis when I don't know if you're up to more 'annoying Boon antics' or being sincere? How much time did we waste today going around in circles? If you are town-aligned, I'm disappointed mate.

[Keyser Söze]

Why did you self-vote your "town" slot? Do you realise that is anti-town/scummy?

You should ask to be replaced,

not roleclaim

and make a mockery of the game you are leaving.

[Keyser Söze]

And I will continue to push for other lynches until I get lynched.

...or nightkilled?

[Keyser Söze]

Doctor Who joins the game:

BBT seems to love wagons.

Scum would want to wagon a lot to out power roles

, but town would want to get the game going.

A different perspective to RVS I did not think about at the time. But what is interesting is that BlueBloodedToffee has maintained this 'wagon' mindset through-out the game. However, admittedly we won't gain much analysis if no wagons form on D1.

Haschel Cedricson's observations were interesting:

Also in post 305 he says "

The werewolf

is probbably not posted enough comments to get noticed by me". Anybody see anything weird about that? Like the attitude that we're only looking for one person and not a partnership?

This is a

possible

scum-slip by Banakai, highlighted by Haschel Cedricson, noted.

BBT does not give me that impression. His first attack on Woody was disbelief of Woody's claim that he missed the Haschelwagon. I think this was silly, but then BBT doubles down and starts strawmanning. His reaction to redFF's reaction to Woody's claim doesn't seem right to me; there is nothing about redFF's post that comes off as "super fake" to me. What DOES come across as fake, though, is his suspicion of absta. Absta asked for elaboration on the crappy WW case, because elaboration was 100% needed. He also sets up a false dichotomy:

He goes against me; saying he disagrees with my reasoning and it feels forced. This would imply he thinks I'm scum, no?"

What? No, it doesn't imply that at all. Why would you say it did?

This is

possible

fake suspicion by BlueBloodedToffee on absta101, highlighted by Haschel Cedricson, noted.


I expect RedCoyote will be playing catch-up for the next 24 hours:
UNVOTE: RedCoyote


Still no sign of TonyMontana I know where this is going...


I will now be looking at absta101, BlueBloodedToffee and Banakai later today.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser's town,

just a town with a giant stick up his butt.

Is having a "giant stick" up my anus alignment-indicative?

[Keyser Söze]

Vinkah, what do you think about the Haschel wagon?

Woody, what are your thoughts on the Haschel wagon?

What did

you

think about the early Haschel Cedricson RVS wagon?

16 looks LAMIST; he is presuming seriousness instead of thinking about tone / context of the post.

That's actually not a bad observation.

You liked Zoronos' observation about absta101 - did you want to follow up that with some pressure on absta101?

Quite frankly, if someone either a) doesn't care enough to read the whole thread to gain context or b) quite regularly misses things (convenient play-style for scum, no?) then I don't particularly want them around even if they're town.

I have a strong distaste for anti-town behaviour too - but if I believed that anti-town slot is a townie, I would prefer not to lynch them.

OK, since when is arrogance alignment indicative? I'm confident because that's how I play and it's what works for me.

I agree, in-game attitude/arrogance is not alignment indicative.

You're scum reading me...and then you go ahead and join the wagon that I'm pushing. That makes no sense at all.

I felt the same when Boonskiies jumped on the wagon I was on (I was Boonskiies' #1 strongest scum read) - it made me doubt the sincerity/strength of his reads/posts.

This is a bad jump on the wagon. There are a couple of votes that I want to look closely at regarding the Woody wagon and this is one of them. Can you explain why it is scummy to defend yourself? In Woody's defence, it's extremely difficult to scum hunt when you have 4-5 people voting/attacking you.

We did not expect to see this BlueBloodedToffee defending WoodyWoodpecker and attacking the logic of redFF's vote.

What made absta101's reason/vote weak:

OK, so another vote on the Woody wagon I have a problem with is Absta's.

I'd say the most scummy thing about Woody is that all he has been doing is defending himself rather than trying to find scum.

Then he starts his own attack on Woody, which IMO, is pretty weak for reasons I explained earlier.

This is consistent with your logic defending WoodyWoodpecker early when you said "it's extremely difficult to scum hunt when you have 4-5 people voting/attacking you."

But you also liked redFF's post regarding WoodyWoodpecker defending himself:

if u have such a 'devil may care' '0 fucks given' attitude then why are you defending yourself so much

This is a good post.

I feel like at this point your vote should be on absta101 - why not? This concerns me.

Yeah, it makes me think Woody is probably town.

It now sounds like your strong scum-read on WoodyWoodpecker has weakened - reads can change with play - I do not scum-read you for this shift in read. I'd be interested to hear your current read on the WoodyWoodpecker/Doctor Who slot.

Just because people vote the person who I am scum reading, that doesn't mean I can't analyze their votes/reasons for joining the wagon. What you're essentially saying is that I should stop all scum hunting outside of the person I am voting which is preposterous.

I agree - no one is a closed case until a flip/investigation.

@BBT - What do you think of Boon?

He's null. Need to see more from him.

Do you have a read on Boonskiies now?

[Keyser Söze]

"Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night,
may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."

My opening message to the three werewolves:

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long mafia career. Skills that make me a nightmare for scum like you. If you leave our village now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't,

I will look for you,

I

will

find you,

and

I will kill you

.

READ SUMMARY [TOWN: () NULL TOWN-LEAN: () NULL: (WoodyWoodpecker, Bulbazoor, TonyMontana, Kmd4390, BlueBloodedToffee, absta101, Banakai, RedCoyote, Zoronos, Haschel Cedricson, redFF, Vinkah) NULL SCUM-LEAN: () SCUM: ()]

KS post 12 (first in the game) reeks of "look at me, I'm town". Lists all of the players as Null except himself, who he omits.

Yes, the game had just begun, so naturally they would all be null I thought it was funny, personally
True, I could have listed myself as a "town read" incase I forgot who I was
Reeks of "look at me, I'm town"? I hope so! You're obviously not a fan of Liam Neeson are you. Anyway, I'd hate for my posts to reek of "look at me, I'm scum"

Welcome to the game.

[Keyser Söze]

Name_______________Count___Voters (Post)
WoodyWoodpecker_____6______

Vinkah (9), BlueBloodedToffee (66), Keyser Söze (72), absta101 (132), Bulbazoor (138), redff (168)

If my town-lean read is correct on WoodyWoodpecker, I'm sure there is at least one werewolf on his wagon.

I think both town and scum could smell the blood on that wagon. However, WoodyWoodpecker's early role-claim and replace-out did admittedly alleviate the pressure on him.

As I said before, I am not a fan of early role-claims and threats to replace-out

[Keyser Söze]

im not a fan of your posting

I am a fan of your posting.

I personally do not want fans.

I want analysis, reads and results.

[Keyser Söze]

nice

keyser u r kind of dominating and clogging the thread a lil, making it hard & annoying 2 read

maybe slow ur roll there champ, cut the inane 6 post in a row rants

It is me genuinely scum-hunting and answering people's accusations/posts. I will take your advice onboard however, and decrease my post count activity by combining posts into one consolidated post.

[Keyser Söze]

So I'm trying to wrap my head around why more than one person is looking at his play this game and going

"Yeah, that's really towny"

.

damn i guess i missed that was too busy playing swordigo

ne1 who joined this site after me is a massive newb + scrub tbh

ne1. en-eeh-1. anyone

y

goddamnit why did u claim we're not even 12 hours into day 1 lol

lol really? damn

damn. could u vow never to play in a a game with me again too

m8 u r just as bad

this is mad sus

the last few pages suck

im not a fan of your posting

For me it's a case of WIFOM. Would scum want to draw attention to themselves - inviting pressure? No. For me he's town for now, but he's admittedly one of my weakest town-reads. I may re-visit his slot later. There's an old saying in Tennessee, I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says,

fool me once, shame on you

.

Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser - I see all those posts and go

"Yeah, active lurking"

. Not "Scum would never be this obvious".

That is another possibility, yes.

[Keyser Söze]

Intent to put absta101 at L-2

[Keyser Söze]

@Shinobi

. Can you confirm whether the werewolves have day chat? I could not see it in the OP rules/roles.

[Keyser Söze]

i would also like to ask keyser and boon slow the fuck down

and the lurkers/behind players to catch up, hopefully this will happen simultaneously

The thread has died. Please may I continue my investigation?

[Keyser Söze]

@Shinobi

:

vote:absta

Vote Count

absta101

(3):

Zoronos, Kmd4390, Boonskiies

Boonskiies

(3):

absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana

RedCoyote

(1):

BlueBloodedToffee

Doctor Who

(1):

redff

Bulbazoor

(1):

Doctor Who

Not Voting

(4):

RedCoyote, Haschel Cedricson, Bulbazoor, Keyser Söze

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00)

[Keyser Söze]

This is why I hate anti-town/self-voting/Village Idiot behaviour:

Scum can blend in by voting for the anti-town/self-voting/Village Idiot. I do not blame either town or scum voting for an anti-town/self-voting/Village Idiot, they have every right to do so

This what makes it harmful for town - do not feed scum ammunition!

[Keyser Söze]

To be honest, my first thought when TonyMontana posted was that he was opportunistic scum, jumping on the easy target. 15 pages of analysis and posts to catch up with, and he only focussed on public enemy #1, Boonskiies:

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

I think the person who vowed himself out of the game was onto something....

VOTE: Boonskiies

If you ain't scum, you're anti-town

But due to the amount of people who have also scum-read/anti-town read Boonskiies' slot makes me re-evaluate my read on TonyMontana. Since then, TonyMontana has widened his focus on other players.

[Keyser Söze]

This needs more votes;

VOTE: Tony

I may support this

wagon

later - but I need to look through your earlier answers, then at Banakai/absta101's ISO's first.


I felt your vote reluctantly went on absta101, then it came off him very fast - but I'll need to re-read that exchange.

[Keyser Söze]

Also, an FYI, when I'm scum, I think far more, and really plan out my posting.

So when you're

town

you don't think and plan; when you're

scum

you think more and plan out your posting - I do not like this trust-tell. It means nothing to me. You could be scum telling us to trust you on this.

This isn't the first time I've done this, haha...BBT and I play with each other A LOT. I'm okay being possibly led by scum, because I will figure it out eventually. When push comes to shove, I'm going to do me anyways.

That's an interesting way of playing - but your actions could lead to a miss-lynch or a force a role-claim - so I'd prefer if no-one sheeps votes if possible.

[Keyser Söze]

Bulbazoor, many of your last posts have been just questions. Do you have thoughts/analysis to add to your questions? It looks like you are active lurking at the moment (which is different to how you were earlier playing):

Doctor Who, can you explain what you got out of the wagon analysis?

How is red causing you to doubt scum read scum?

I did. WHy are you sure tony is scum?

How is he scummy as fudge?

So what are your reads on hasch and myself? Do to Who? I am asking for up dated reads.

[Keyser Söze]

BlueBloodedToffee, I'm going to have to go back to this:

I felt your vote reluctantly went on absta101, then it came off him very fast - but I'll need to re-read that exchange.

You replied:

I was reading Absta vs Redff and I don't see that as scum vs scum at all and if I were to vote between those two I think I would vote Red - which caused me to have doubts about my Absta scum read.

Can you explain why you initially voted for absta101?

For now though;

VOTE: Absta

When you unvoted absta101, did you think absta101-redFF was town vs werewolf or town vs town? If

town vs werewolf

, did you want to put pressure on redFF? Are you now town-reading absta101 based purely on the possibilty of redFF being scum/town?

This flip-flop on absta101 concerns me - plus, the fact you were happy to leave absta101-redFF alone and then re-direct your focus on TonyMontana.

[Keyser Söze]

this is exactly why I'm town. Why the fuck would I be "obvious" as scum? I'm never fucking obvious as scum.

the only time i'm lynched when I'm town, is when people think I'm "obvious scum".

Stop using your specialized scummy behavior to "prove" your

'town-alignment'

via your personal meta

[Keyser Söze]

KS 226: Something about your WW push comes across as insincere here. This is too try hard.

If I could hear the thought-process of his 'possible scum' read it would aid my read on him.

Your posts don't always feel germane to the situation. I do not get the feeling that your arguments and points are delivered in a way that is scumhunting so much that it is you appearing to scumhunt. I've already pointed out what I've seen as some potential buddying from you, but now I'm getting this rush of overkill from you re: WW. It doesn't feel sincere and I wonder if this was the endgame all along (that you'd inevitably end up at the "WW is too easy" spot).

Fair points - I can see how you see my earnest scum-hunting is 'try hard pro-town'.

However, regarding the "WW push", I was highlighting how WoodyWoodpecker's actions were anti-town (I was not pushing whether he was scum-aligned). I made my conclusion of his alignment later.

[Keyser Söze]

These help me to see who is flying under the radar. My replacement is still carrying me.

Spoiler: Updated Activity

Keyser Söze Jul 24, 12:57pm Jul 29, 05:26pm 0 days 5 hours 100
BlueBloodedToffee Jul 24, 12:31pm Jul 28, 01:09pm 1 day 9 hours 100
WoodyWoodpecker Jul 24, 12:30pm Jul 26, 07:17am 3 days 15 hours 77
Boonskiies Jul 25, 11:34pm Jul 29, 06:41pm 0 days 4 hours 68
absta101 Jul 24, 01:15pm Jul 28, 03:42pm 1 day 7 hours 56
redFF Jul 24, 02:10pm Jul 28, 08:44pm 1 day 2 hours 48
Bulbazoor Jul 24, 04:48pm Jul 28, 09:57pm 1 day 0 hours 43
Zoronos Jul 24, 01:27pm Jul 29, 12:45pm 0 days 10 hours 35 Aug 03 2015
Banakai Jul 24, 09:54pm Jul 29, 09:33pm 0 days 1 hour 27
Haschel Cedricson Jul 24, 12:52pm Jul 29, 09:37pm 0 days 1 hour 25
Kmd4390 Jul 24, 05:56pm Jul 29, 09:07pm 0 days 1 hour 23
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Shinobi Jul 24, 10:06am Jul 29, 12:59pm 0 days 9 hours 17
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Vinkah Jul 24, 12:41pm Jul 25, 07:01am 4 days 15 hours 8

TonyMontana Jul 24, 01:04pm Jul 28, 07:58am 1 day 14 hours 8

Doctor Who Jul 26, 01:13pm Jul 29, 08:49am 0 days 13 hours 7

RedCoyote Jul 24, 06:22pm Jul 29, 09:37pm 0 days 1 hour 3

@Doctor Who - what are your thoughts about the

low-activity

posters?

RedCoyote - I'd prefer him to see him scum-hunting in the-thick-of-the-action, reacting on the spot, instead of timed responses to events. I am not a fan of long periodic catch-up posts (possible sheeping tactic). However, RL may obviously restrict his online activity.
TonyMontana - he was the late joiner to our party, jumping on the Boonskiies-hate wagon - can I blame him? Was suspicious to see him focus purely on Boonskiies with his first scum-analysis thought. Need more input from him. He has hinted at reads, but not explained them.

[Keyser Söze]

Can you explain why you initially voted for absta101?

Sure, because I disliked his approach to the Woody wagon. I feel I have made this more than clear.

When you unvoted absta101, did you think absta101-redFF was town vs werewolf or town vs town? If

town vs werewolf

, did you want to put pressure on redFF? Are you now town-reading absta101 based purely on the possibilty of redFF being scum/town?

This flip-flop on absta101 concerns me - plus, the fact you were happy to leave absta101-redFF alone and then re-direct your focus on TonyMontana.

I unvoted because I didn't feel it was likely to be scum vs scum and I felt that redff had a higher chance of being scum than Absta. I would like some time to sort out Absta/redff and am therefore pursuing someone else who I think could be scum.

Yes, you "disliked his approach to the Woody wagon": post 229
However, now that you think he is town-aligned, do you still dislike absta101's approach on WoodyWoodpecker, or do you think he had genuine reasons for concern?

My town-read on you has faded, I am now currently suspicious of a connection between yourself-absta101 vs redFF. I am not going to dwelve into connections without a flip though - and this shouldn't be a reason for me to vote for you. I'd like to hear more about your

'redFF has higher chance of being scum'

theory.

However, I would like to put pressure on TonyMontana - but will hold back on my vote on him for now (I need to express my concerns on his slot).

Kmd4390, my strongest town-read also has me as his strongest town-read I don't know if that makes me confident or paranoid (could be scum trying to buddy up, or we could genuinely be two townies who town-read eachother perfectly).

[Keyser Söze]

To be honest, I got thrown off by Boon, and to some degree Keyser taking up most of the space during my read.
Ive gotten a

town-lean

out of checking back on you, trying to read up on redFF, which I'm not lovin atm.

Can you point to the points which make you have a town-lean on absta101. We've heard your thoughts on Boonskiies' posts, what did you think of my posts during your read (it sounds like you skimmed over them)?

I should probably check myself for wanting Boon dead, if its just for being anti-town, and he certainly seems to have a reputation for it, but

in isolation he looks scum

.

Ok - now I realise why your vote is still on Boonskiies - you still scum-read him (an anti-town werewolf?).

+1 on banakai supposedly discarding a case.

I previously had read it as "was gonna write a case on him" which is bad enough in itself, but claiming to throw out any writings because it seems unnecessary is terrible.

Possible sheeping of BlueBloodedToffee's read. If it is so "terrible" where is your pressure on banakai?

[Keyser Söze]

I have a town-lean read on Bulbazoor so far.

My read on Bulbazoor is now

null

. He has recently been asking many questions but not sharing his thoughts/reads on those questions/answers.

[Keyser Söze]

@Haschel Cedricson - here are my thoughts about Banakai.

Woody: would you care to explain why you are playing so defensive? As a town usually you just have to accept that one of you are gonna die day 1 probbably, and just try and get as much information as possible even when being voted. I believe you are either scum, or at least very bad at being town. Also your name can be abbreviated to WW which can mean werewolf. Confirmed.

I found Banakai's first post very amusing. It took him 8 pages to make his first contribution. Part-RVS, part-realist, part-analysis all rolled in one. "As a town usually you just have to accept that one of you are gonna die day 1 probbably" I loved that line.

BBT: Do you think there would be any motivation in this game for a scum to tunnel on Woody like you are now?

Failed to wrap my head around this question from Banakai - as both town and scum have motivation to tunnel.

Kind of hard to tell about other

players

since they are mostly spectating and gathering facts, with the exception of

people

who have already taken the side of Woody acting scum-like which I agree with.

"players" / "people" - why is he scared/lazy to name-drop who he's talking about?

I had early problems with him town reading redFF on unknown reasons (I usually associate empty-reads with scum):

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

Please can I have added quote-thought-process analysis on this statement. I am not satisfied with your reasons.

As for red ff, I just liked his posts, but he posted some questionable things now

#168 is a little meh but I shouldnt talk as I pretty much did the same thing
#176 was probbably his best post, both a good question and observation about scum in rvs
#181 is a little forced
#187 is a very good question
#203 kinda concerns me with its tone though

1) What is your current read on redFF?

2) What was it about his early posts that made you announce "red ff is town" in the thread? Please could you quote the posts that made you have such an early strong town read on him.

He then explained the points that made him town read redFF, then later scum-read redFF - I was satisifed.

However, Kmd4390 highlihted a possible contradiction (this made me re-look at the developing scum-read of redFF by Banakai):

I just noticed after seeing Keyser quote it that

Ban's examples of questionable redff posts all came before ban said redff was town

. Interesting. I'm curious what made Ban change his mind.

This doesn't work; I already clarified what I meant by being active in post 123 which was before you asked me this question

But it wasn't before Keyser asked.

That is an interesting point.

Let's look at the chronology:

"

#168 is a little meh but I shouldnt talk as I pretty much did the same thing

"

[neutral]

"

#176 was probbably his best post, both a good question and observation about scum in rvs

"

[positive]

"

#181 is a little forced

"

[negative]

"

#187 is a very good question

"

[positive]
Banakai posts his read [Post #195, Banakai: "Also red ff is town"]

"#203 kinda concerns me with its tone though"

[negative]

It's only possibly Banakai's comment on post #181 which contradicts his town read of redFF.

His posts later on, feel emotive/genuine:

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

Add to this a passionate/determined scum-read of Boonskiies (post 690).

Banakai has been unafraid to express his strong feelings/frustrations - do I see that as town-aligned? In then case, yes, a slight town-lean (emotion is admittedly usually hard to place). I can however identify with his frustrations about Boonskiies' play - I can see how Banakai could interpret Boonskiies' posts as anti-town/scummy. As you can see I have had mixed reads on Banakai.

[Keyser Söze]

I'd hardly call my read passionate/determined when haschel basically forced me to make a case

I think you need to explain your scum-read on Boonskiies one more time, I don't feel you believe in it...

Scum-slip:

I think banakai is a lovely dude with a great personality. He i

s

very attra

c

tive. I look

u

p to him and hope to

m

eet him someday.

[Keyser Söze]

Boon for obvious reasons

this is exactly why I'm town. Why the fuck would I be "obvious" as scum? I'm never fucking obvious as scum.

my Banakai read is changing

.

Reads can change, but now we've seen two drastic read changes from Boonskiies. First me, now Banakai. Is this another test? Faux read? Or genuine?

Can I have an update of your Town/Null/Scum League Table.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, can you take those words back that you just rammed down my throat? Can you quote where I said I was town reading Absta?

Let me look back to see why I thought you town-read him.

[Keyser Söze]

This was it:

I unvoted because I didn't feel it was likely to be scum vs scum and I felt that redff had a higher chance of being scum than Absta.

After you made this comment I

presumed

you thought absta-redFF was town-town or town-scum, not scum-scum.

[Keyser Söze]

...so do you think they are scum-scum?

Or unsure-unsure?

[Keyser Söze]

I will be catching up tomorrow morning.

I want to hear Tony Montana's thoughts after the weekend.

The Boonskiies vs Banakai wagons intrigue me. Basically the flip of either will strengthen my reads on the respective voters.

I do not believe both Boonskiies and Banakai are scum. It is either one town or both town.

[Keyser Söze]

Catching up, Part One:

Finally, remember this?

I'd hardly call my read passionate/determined when

haschel basically forced me to make a case

I didn't force him to make a case; I forced him to tell us the case that he claims he already had, and now he tries to twist it around like I'm the bad guy for doing so? He was voting Boonskiies for "obvious reasons" but now he's lukewarm to his entire read? Nonsense. This guy is absolutely our lynch today.

A valid point; Banakai supposedly had a whole case already written up. Is this Banakai stepping away from his wagon-drive on Boonskies?

Prod response.

I'm on holiday, visiting my parents, will be back after the weekend.

I do not want to rush into a lynch with TonyMontana (my scum-lean read) pending input today - plus, there are 4 days left on the clock. It may well be the last day for one of us - get your thoughts and scum-reads down now.

@RC the absta wagon can start again if u want to i'd be down tbh

I feel like this wagon faded out suspiciously quickly and without fanfair, wasn't he at l-1 at one point? gonna check out the absta wagon formation and its quiet dissipation when i get the time.

BBT is striking me as super over the top in his agressiveness, and his attempts to instill himself as the town 'leader' feel like a way to suppress dissenting opinion. he just seems to be a control freak who thinks he's better than the rest of us tbh, i gotta have another read but i still think he's scummy.

"the absta wagon can start again if u want to i'd be down tbh"

- I see this as a town post - to post this in open view would be dangerous for scum (plus, scum usually push the most current wagon, unless creating a counter wagon to take votes off their scum partner. Here, redFF has made this too obvious to be scum. I too, am not finished with the absta101 wagon.

Something which unnerves me, was BlueBloodedToffee's vote and unvote on absta101. He is now emphasing that we have enough to go on for D1 and is happy to jump on one of the leading wagons (personally, I think he has concentrated more on absta101, TonyMontana and redFF):

Alright, we still have 5 days but

I think 32 pages for D1 is more than enough

and nobody seems interested in Tony lurking out the whole of D1 so;

VOTE: Banakai

[Keyser Söze]

Catching up, Part Two:

So doctor... Your thoughts on red analysis and reads?

Where does that lead you?

Bulbazoor, tell me who are your main scum-reads. Too many questions (which you do not follow up with).

Do NOT include your thoughts on Banakai.

The Liam Neeson thing did say "look at me, I'm town" and

what surprised me is that you didn't follow it up by listing yourself as town

. I wasn't sure if you were going to keep the running notes on alignment either.

I do not understand when people list themselves as a town-read. I do find it amusing however.

In defense of me posting elsewhere, thats only low-effort phone-posting in a game near end-game which didnt require much of me.

I didn't recall seeing anyone noting you were posting elsewhere

, I'm surprised you brought it up.

I believe I did. It's not a reason I'd vote for him though:

@Mod

Can you also please give TonyMontana a gentle prod - he's been posting elsewhere but neglecting this game

17 minutes between these two posts, and based on when you posted you went from page 2 (post 26) to page 15. Frankly,

when someone is able to catch up so quickly it makes me think they are scum since they already know who their buddies are and they just need to bandwagon a townie and make sure one of their scumbuddies doesn't get lynched

.

These were my thoughts too - I think TonyMontana's lurking slot deserves 'attention' before the deadline.

[Keyser Söze]

This is where I am:

I do not want these lynched D1:
Kmd4390
Red Coyote
Doctor Who
Haschel Cedricson
Zoronos
redff

Uncomfortable zone:
Bulbazoor
Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone:
Banakai
Tony Montana
absta101


I do not think Boonskiies-Banakai or Doctor Who-BlueBloodedToffee is scum-scum.

More of my town-lean reads are on the Banakai wagon. More of my scum-lean reads are on the Boonskiies wagon. Even though I believe a Boonskiies flip would tell us alot about other players, I do not want to lynch a player I town-lean (weak) read. But I would prefer a Boonskiies/Banakai lynch than a no lynch. I currently do not like the Banakai lynch because I fear possible opportunistic scum-play by BlueBloodedToffee and absta101.

I'm liking redFF as town now (he has become a vocal (direct) player - he has been more motivated versus the 1st half of D1). I liked his stance that it shouldn't be a case of choosing between

Boonskiies or Banakai

.

VOTE: absta101

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser - How am I being opportunistic?

Will post this later.

Zoro, I'd be interested in getting a Tony wagon started if you're up for it?

It's difficult to get people to vote for someone who is lurking though so it's a difficult wagon to push. Some help would be appreciated.

There's no point knocking on TonyMontana's door, when no one's at home. Press the active players for now.

IMO, TonyMontana has got to catch-up with the thread first ,

then

we smash his back doors in

[Keyser Söze]

Between the two at the moment I'd rather vote RedFF.

If you read RedFF as scummy, do you think he is trying to start a counter-wagon on absta101?

More than half of town were very much set on Banakai vs Boonskiies.

[Keyser Söze]

Can I get some votes/thoughts/opinions/a sentence about Tony please? The guy isn't just lurking; his 'catch up' was lacking any sort of content/analysis and he just hopped aboard the Boon wagon with no reasoning at all.

I don't understand why nobody is paying him any attention.

TonyMontana is very much in my Uncomfortable D1 Lynch Pool list:
post 576
post 659
post 689


But while absta101 is online - I need to explain my scum-read on him. absta101 can defend himself. Atm, TonyMontana can't.

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser - How am I being opportunistic?

These 3 comments are possible opportunistic scum-play:

I'm saying there is only 5 days left; if you start splitting up the wagons into 3 instead the two (major ones) there are now, we'll probably end up with a no-lynch or a rushed lynch. If you don't want to vote Boon or Banakai, that's fine, just

don't try to pull people off the wagons at this stage

.

5 days is cutting it close and you know it. I highly doubt you'll find 7 people who want to lynch me above these other two in that time.

I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon

this close to the deadline.

I'm fine with lynching either

Boon or Banakai

and we only have a few days left to decide. The people on the smaller wagons should migrate at this point.

I sensed you were trying to keep the focus on Banakai and Boonskiies - why can't there be another wagon on other people? People should be encouraged to vote who they want to vote for and not be forced to vote on the two leading wagons. I admittedly don't have a strong scum-read of those two slots so I possibly might have a biased view.


Here were my early worries about your posts:

Vote: Bulbazoor. He knows why.

Explain your vote on bulb.
VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

I see this as an unnatural response during RVS. I associate unnaturalness with scum.

Keyser is really active, I doubt scum would be playing like he is now.

Thanks for the town-read... but I felt your initial reasons to town-read me weren't strong enough. Activity is not alignment indicative. Admittedly, you

later

say I was really active 'scum-hunting'. I don't like players giving out easy town-reads.

I'd say the most scummy thing about Woody is that all he has been doing is defending himself rather than trying to find scum.

Stating your reason to join the WoodyWoodpecker wagon, while BlueBloodedToffee was attacking him. (Time defending yourself > time scum hunting) while being attacked is not alignment-indicative.

Alright, i'm back. For starters, I don't think you need to be making full cases for why certain players seem town (@Keyser).

I disagreed. I wish everyone would post full cases why they think others are town/null/scum. We will then re-read these reads when someone flips.

[Let me catch-up with the thread].

[Keyser Söze]

Catching up, Part One:

Finally, it seemed like he started off acting like town in his first sentence, but in his second sentence I believe he identifies himself as scum. Why complain about making the game harder for

everyone else

(as in not town) if he is town? I don't believe I got a response to my question either.

You should realise by spamming all these small posts you are hurting town. It makes the game harder to follow for everyone else.

Boonskiies is hurting town, but then who are the "everyone else" in your second sentence?

In absta101 defence, I speak about town in the third-person sometimes.

Keyser, why is redff continuing to push absta "too obvous"? I personally don't see it as telling one way or the other.

There's also the scum motivation of creating panic in the town as the deadline approaches so we rush lynch someone.

I will need to re-read redFF's posts (who I currently town-read). At the moment, I do not think he is trying to create panic, by voting someone other than Banakai/Boonskiies.

Can you clarify the 'uncomfortable zone'? I interpreted it as 'lean scum' and 'scum reading' sections but I'm obviously wrong if you're weak town reading Boon. This is far too ambiguous. Secondly, it would appear I can change the titles of your 'reads' to 'In no danger of getting lynched Today' and 'Possibility of getting lynched Today.'

I forgot to add parenthesis on these sub-groups. The first was: I feel uncomfortable with their slot, but would not like to lynch them D1, the second was: I feel uncomfortable with their slot, and they are on my D1 lynch pool list.

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser - What you showed is not opportunistic at all; i've been on Boon since he started being scummy. I'm simply trying to tell you guys that we are so close to the deadline that we can't risk a no-lynch.

I'm beginning to see that my town-read of Boonskiies is effecting my read on your actions.

[Keyser Söze]

We can revisit absta101 and TonyMontana's slots tomorrow.

Boonskiies will likely be kept alive by the werewolves (lynch-bait) - I town-lean read him anyway...

BlueBloodedToffee and Bulbazoor have entered my 'uncomfortable' group, but I do not wish to lynch them D1.

Here are the lynch candidates of my personal lynch pool:
Banakai: "I'm not seeing an absta as scum, but tony montana I'd be okay with but I still prefer boon"
Tony Montana: "my main suspects as of this moment is BBT and banakai".
absta101: "I'm fine with lynching either Boon or Banakai"


P-EDIT: I believe Banakai is now L-1 after absta101's vote.

[I originally was going to vote!]

[Keyser Söze]

He is L-2 now I think.

[Keyser Söze]

Banakai, we need a roleclaim (with 34 hours left on the clock).

[Keyser Söze]

Banakai (6): Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee, absta101

Boonskiies (3): Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390
absta101 (3): redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who
Tony Montana (1): Zoronos

L-1, nobody hammer!

[Keyser Söze]

Just to confirm BlueBloodedToffee, you were/are against an absta101 D1 lynch?

[Keyser Söze]

Banakai, stop avoiding the thread...

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser so far my main scumreads are

BBT

and

Ban

, with

TOny

along it.

So in a game that reached stalemate with just a day left on the clock, you think BlueBloodedToffee was happy to bus either of his hypothetical scum teammates? Interesting theory.

If Banakai is scum you'd expect at least one of his scum teammates to be off his wagon right now:

Tony Montana, Kmd4390, redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

... and possibly one on his wagon, of: Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee, absta101.

If Banakai flips scum, I can't see Boonskiies being scum too.
If town, we have a nice wagon to analyse D2.

[Keyser Söze]

Well, I am scumreading tony since I agree with keyser on his reasons, and also because I got iso reads frfom him also.

Do you wat me to talk about what I found?

I am still content on Ban.

Yes, please post your reasons.

[Keyser Söze]

Vote Count

Banakai

(4):

Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies

Boonskiies

(4):

absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390

absta101

(3):

redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Tony Montana

(2):

Zoronos, BlueBloodedToffee

[/color]

Historical VC's:

absta101 (2): Zoronos, Kmd4390
absta101 (4): Zoronos, Kmd4390, Boonskiies, redff
absta101 (4): Zoronos, redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who
BlueBloodedToffee Vote, Unvote


Sorry to keep bumping the absta101 wagon, but were Zoronos, Kmd4390 and BlueBloodedToffee currently against the absta101 lynch? (strongly-against/so-so/unsure/for)

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry to keep bumping the absta101 wagon, but were Zoronos, Kmd4390 and BlueBloodedToffee* currently against the absta101 lynch? (strongly-against/so-so/unsure/for)

*and Boonskiies.

[Keyser Söze]

I have some very important information to share about Banakai.

[Keyser Söze]

I'M ALL EARS

[Keyser Söze]

No roleclaims.

The two remaining werewolves should be left in the dark - their reactions and pushes for a miss-lynch are key.

The Night 1 Angel is of no threat to the werewolves now - a werewolf would not counter-claim a town PR either as this would line themselves up for a lynch.

Thus, we should not narrow down the town PR pool for the werewolves. Let's continue scum-hunting.

[Keyser Söze]

1. Angel outs. Chance at lynching scum is almost fifty percent. Angel will die regardless and scum can not cc in this scenario because it leaves a confirmed scum.

"fifty percent"?


I will post my full findings/thoughts/reads tomorrow.

[Keyser Söze]

When I'm next online I am going to look at:

- analysis of the D1 counter-wagons
- who was against the Banakai lynch
- the reasons why people voted for Banakai
- update of my town / 'uncomfortable' list
- Vote count analysis
- Post-flip associative connections with Banakai
- Banakai's town/null/scum reads from D1
- D2 lynch pool list

[Keyser Söze]

Going through Banakai's 44 posts:

Banakai didn't engage with many players directly (a scum-trait). Here is an example of Banakai referring to players as "they" or "people" instead of name-dropping them and inviting focus:

Kind of hard to tell about other

players

since

they

are mostly spectating and gathering facts, with the exception of

people

who have already taken the side of Woody acting scum-like which I agree with.

Thus, there are few connections to be drawn with other players (until later, where he is approaching L-1*).

Early pressure on WoodyWoodpecker (Doctor Who) (post 193).

Also red ff is town

This empty town-read was likely an attempt by Banakai to buddy up with redFF (redFF earns 10 town points).

Two grammatical errors or two scum-slips?

BBT: Do you think there would be any motivation in this game for

a scum

to tunnel on Woody like you are now?

The werewolf is

probbably not posted enough comments to get noticed by me or has yet to give me a clue.

Interestingly, who was "the werewolf" who had not posted enough? I did not take a snap-shot of the VC at post 305.

The contradiction of the chronological timing of his town and scum read of redFF (post 305). (Kmd4390 and I had previously discussed this: post 411).

Banakai votes Boonskiies, thus, starting a tunnel which he continues through-out the rest of his ISO (post 472)

Confuses Boonskiies slot with WoodyWoodpecker's (Doctor Who) slot (post 473).

Despite his strong scum-read of Boonskiies, Banakai posts this:

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

At this point, there were 3 votes now on absta01 (after BlueBloodedToffee's unvote and vote on Tony Montana) and there were 3 votes on Boonskiies.

Banakai says his two main scum-reads are Boonskiies and redFF (post 628).

Banakai accuses Boonskiies of trying to buddy up with BlueBloodedToffee (post 671) (BlueBloodedToffee earns half a town point).

Banakai disagreed with me when I called his tunnel on Boonskiies "passionate/determined" (post 698, post 734).


*Banakai's thoughts on the respective wagons forming:

I'm not seeing an absta as scum, but tony montana I'd be okay with but I still prefer boon

Here was the VC at that point:
Banakai (5): Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee
Boonskiies (4): absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390
absta101 (4): Zoronos, redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Banakai accuses Tony Montana of being lurking scum (post 860).

Banakai adds one more final thought on Tony Montana:

Also I agree that bringing up tony wagon at the end of deadline is kind of scummy, but then again I think tony could be scum.

Was his late focus on Tony Montana last minute WIFOM?
It must be noted that Banakai was against the absta101 lynch.
Banakai's pressure/tunnelling on Doctor Who/Boonskiies' slots earns them town points.

[Keyser Söze]

Banakai

_____________4______

Haschel Cedricson

(502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710)
Boonskiies__________4______

absta101 (422),

Banakai

(472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)

the boonskies wagon is terrible and has scummy looking players on it

I don't think all 3 werewolves would have been on that Boonskiies wagon (I wouldn't put it past newb-scum however). At the end of D1 I was thinking absta101-Banakai-TonyMontana were scum (but possibly one or both of absta101-TonyMontana are town). I've town-read Kmd4390 from the start, but will need to look at all my reads.

[Keyser Söze]

Shouldn't this give townpoints to both DW and Boonskiies?

It seems like the scumteam would be more cognizant if one of their own replaced out.

Anyway, I like KS' post here. I'm becoming more and more convinced our scumteam is Banakai/Zoro/absta or redFF or Bulba

Yes, definite town-points. Doctor Who and Boonskiies are not on my D2 lynch pool list.


I am still catching up (looking at the counter-wagons, and the Banakai wagon itself).

[Keyser Söze]

Fuck this shit VOTE: Banakai

I felt it was damage limitation. I knew he was confirmed scum when he was avoiding the thread at L-1, followed by his self-vote (classic defeated scum behaviour)

We know scum do not have day chat, so I can see your point of view (Banakai could have been genuinely frustrated - at himself and his teammates).

[Keyser Söze]

How did you know he was avoiding the thread?

I also meant to ask, what made you think to ask the mod if scum had daychat?

He was posting elsewhere on mafiascum (if he was a townie at L-1, he would have been on this thread straight-away to defend himself) Banakai was defeated scum.

"Day chat" - good question, I had a theory! I will check my ISO, because I have honestly forgot

[Keyser Söze]

I remember now - it was all to do with TonyMontana's late entrance into the thread and his ability to catch-up so quick and vote Boonskiies within minutes (post 533). My theory: scum have a tendency not to read the thread when they have day-chat - I thought TonyMontana was lurking, then had a skim of his scum day chat, and jumped on the scum-led wagon on Boonskiies.

[Keyser Söze]

Additionally, I think that last minute push at TM just reinforces my theory that TM is town. The only reason Banakai didn't jump over to it is because he was already on the second biggest wagon (Boon, also likely town).

This was my initial thought, but I recently played a newbie game, where the scum (who was at L-1, nearing the hammer) put pressure on his scum teammate - we gave his scum teammate a free-card right to MYLO, thinking "scum would never bus their own at L-1" - thus, I am more paranoid now

[Keyser Söze]

Bulbazoor made an extensive post and vote on Banakai page 29 (post 702).

I believe this was the VC, prior to his vote on Banakai:
Boonskiies (4): absta101, Tony Montana, Kmd4390, Banakai
absta101 (2): Zoronos, Boonskiies

Banakai (2): Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote

Tony Montana (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, redff

Bulbazoor took his vote off the leading wagon (Boonskiies) onto a werewolf (Banakai).
25 town points for Bulbazoor.

[Keyser Söze]

RedCoyote added the 2nd vote on the Banakai wagon. I like Red Coyote's frank admission on sheeping Haschel Cedricson:

I also like HC's Banakai case, and given that I know deep down I want to give Doctor Who more room to grow with us (my WW case was always on the weak end, but given that I wasn't around during most of the juicy bits, I couldn't really express that through voting as clearly as I would've liked).

UNVOTE: Doctor Who; VOTE: Banakai

For right now, consider me a sheep, though I have a couple of points of my own I would like to sprinkle in later (this catchup post will be long enough without me writing this out).

Red Coyote, 15 town points.

[Keyser Söze]

Correction:

I believe this was the VC, prior to his vote on Banakai:

Boonskiies (4): absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390
absta101 (2): Zoronos, Boonskiies,
Banakai (2): Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote
Tony Montana (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, redff

Not Voting (2): Bulbazoor, Keyser Söze

Bulbazoor was not voting.

[Keyser Söze]

So I have some pretty drastic read changes...I no longer believe Kmd is scum, and Keyser is yet again hard pinging me. I believe one of Absta/Redff to be scum, and 100% agree that one of them should be the lynch toDay. I would much prefer Absta, to be honest, if only for the fact that I feel Absta is more slippery than Redff.

There is no way Bulb is scum in my eyes. Who I have barely been reading his posts, to be honest. And RC, i've been reading, but too lazy to form an opinion on

. I want Absta lynched.

As I town-read you (because of your associative gameplay vs Banakai), I would

like

you (town

needs

you) to improve on your reads/reasons on Bulbazoor and RedCoyote.

[Keyser Söze]

Doctor Who's post 1016 makes me want to re-look at my scum-read of absta101:

I reread absta's points on Banakai, and I found sufficient merit for the vote.

Further, I recant my Absta is likely scum position. I have him as a mild town read now.

Spoiler: absta on Ban

God damn I had a case written for boon but he just made a case for himself

post it anyway.

Banakai's vote on Boon is quite bad. His case feels like he just made it after I asked him to post it anyway.
-

@Tony

- You give the impression that you think Boon could be anti-town which suggests he isn't a strong scum read to you. Do you have any other scum reads at the moment?

God damn I had a case written for boon but he just made a case for himself

This post makes no sense coming from town and I asked him to post his case anyway to see if he really did make one. Like I said after he posted his case, it looked quite rushed (like he just made it after I asked him to post it).

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

This quote doesn't make sense considering Banakai just said that Boon played so scummy that he (Banakai) didn't even bother finishing/posting his case on him.

Post #690 is interesting. I don't see why town-Banakai wouldn't just link back to the case he made on Boon earlier. I mean, he told HC that he had already given reasons for why he thought Boon was scum so this new version of the same case just looks like he is trying to make sure he looks town to HC. Not really a strong point, this could easily just be play style or personality but, as town, I definitely wouldn't have posted the same case twice just because someone got mad and told me to.

I'd hardly call my read passionate/determined when haschel basically

forced me to make a case

You already made a case before HC asked you to.

I'm fine with lynching either Boon or Banakai and we only have a few days left to decide. The people on the smaller wagons should migrate at this point.

5 days is cutting it close and you know it. I highly doubt you'll find 7 people who want to lynch me above these other two in that time. I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon this close to the deadline.

I'm going to join the Banakai wagon unless someone joins the Boon wagon in a few hours.

Just vote Boon or banakai. We don't have much time.

This is fucked, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said, Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?
Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.

VOTE: Banakai
As promised. He is L-2 now I think.

A werewolf unashamedly bussing his scum-partner at a crucial moment to regain town-cred

OR

a townie genuinely wanting his two scum-reads lynched (Boonskiies, Banakai)?
I will need to re-think this slot.
For the ones who like me, have scum-read absta101 since D1, re-read his ISO.

[Keyser Söze]

Zoronos has entered my 'uncomfortable' list.

Re-reading his D1 posts there is a contradiction between the logic of his reads and his votes.

Zoronos shares his main scum-reads:

@Zoro - What do you think of

Boon

?

He's probably scum. So is

Red

. I'm looking for the third player at the moment.

Working out if that's

Absta

or

Bulb

.

Zoronos states he'd vote for redFF out of TonyMontana and redFF (post 810).
Zoronos also expresses he still wants to lynch absta101.

[At this time, redFF was starting a wagon on absta101 (a rival wagon vs the Boonskiies-Banakai wagons) - thus, did Zoronos think absta101 (his scum-read) was starting a counter-wagon on redFF (his other scum-read) while two wagons were already thriving (Boonskiies-Banakai, players he town/null read)?]

This was Zoronos' response:

Yes, I think it is immanently possible. That's why

I feel like I need to re-read Absta

.
The reads from my gut are not lining up with the reads from my reasoning, and that's usually a sign (for me) that

I need to do some re-read and rethink

.

I am unsure if we saw evidence of Zoronos' "re-read and rethink" - his vote moved to TonyMontana from absta101 (post 850), and he defended Banakai - no re-evaluation of his former scum-reads and the implications of them.

Ideally, I wish Zoronos had explained his reads on absta101/Bulbazoor, redFF and Boonskies toward the end of D1 - Zoronos voted for TonyMontana and wasn't online for the hammer.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Zoronos

[Keyser Söze]

In post 910, absta101 wrote:

This is fucked

, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said,

Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?

Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.


I don't get the frustration here - this post I could see coming from scum. He almost seems resigned to having to bus here and is preparing to move his vote. He is frustrated that he hasn't managed to make Boon the more popular wagon.

I don't know whether he is coaching here either - hinting for Banakai to claim a PR

. Yeah, I don't like this post.

Yes, scum is scum - regardless of what scum could do, vote for your scum-reads without hesitation.

Interesting theory on absta101 "coaching" Banakai too - I did not originally see that possibility. Claiming a PR on D1 would have been the best play to make as caught scum (not self-vote).

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, can I get an updated reads list please?

D1

This is where I am:

I do not want these lynched D1:
Kmd4390
Red Coyote
Doctor Who
Haschel Cedricson
Zoronos
redff

Uncomfortable zone:
Bulbazoor
Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone (D1 lynch candidates):
Banakai
Tony Montana
absta101


I do not think Boonskiies-Banakai or Doctor Who-BlueBloodedToffee is scum-scum.

More of my town-lean reads are on the Banakai wagon. More of my scum-lean reads are on the Boonskiies wagon.

D2

I do not want these lynched D2:
Boonskiies
redff
Red Coyote
Doctor Who
Kmd4390
Bulbazoor

Uncomfortable zone:
Tony Montana
BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone (D2 lynch candidates):
absta101
Zoronos


Currently, more of my town-reads are on my two main scum-read wagons:

absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF
Zoronos (3): RedCoyote, Kmd4390, Keyser Söze
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, Tony Montana
Kmd4390 (1): Zoronos
Tony Montana (1): absta101
Not Voting (2): Bulbazoor, BlueBloodedToffee

I no longer think absta101-Tony Montana are

both

scum, more likely one town or both town.

[Keyser Söze]

Also, is anyone scum reading Zoro outside of Banakai interactions?

Yes - I never saw evidence of Zoronos' "re-read and rethink" of his scum-reads towards the end of D1 on absta101/Bulbazoor Boonskies and redFF.

All I saw was a late vote on TonyMontana (Zoronos had previously said he'd prefer to vote for redFF than TonyMontana) - what were his feelings on absta101/Bulbazoor, Boonskies and redFF?

[Keyser Söze]

OK, can you give me your thoughts on my points that go against Absta being scum then?

Why would scum!Absta narrow down the lynch pool to his buddy and one other person?

Also, what do you think about my post on Redff?

Yes, I hinted at my re-evaluation on absta101's slot in post 1145, after looking at Doctor's Who's post - there are reasons to town-read absta101.

"Also, what do you think about my post on Redff?", "Also, can you explain your scum reads on both myself and Tony?" - I will look at this after lunch.

Note: TonyMontana is no longer a strong scum-read of mine - but he is in my uncomfortable list - I have liked his D2 posts.

[Keyser Söze]

I will be very interested to see where you and Bulbazoor put your votes.

[Keyser Söze]

I could absolutely see Zoro being scum with Banakai

VOTE: Redff

Your scum-read on redFF must be very strong. Let me now look at your argument on him:

My comments in

[red]

.

OK, so the first weird thing in Banakai's ISO is his sudden town read on redff. Let's follow the progression of this read;

Also red ff is town

Redff is town. Stated with no context and for no apparent reason.

Because his posts are a towns posts.

Lack of explanation here.

As for red ff, I just liked his posts, but he posted some questionable things now

#168 is a little meh but I shouldnt talk as I pretty much did the same thing
#176 was probbably his best post, both a good question and observation about scum in rvs
#181 is a little forced
#187 is a very good question
#203 kinda concerns me with its tone though

Begins backtracking on his redff read. Why is he doing this? It seems through his post analysis that he had at least some reasoning for his town read on redff and the backtracking is somewhat unwarranted. Unless you consider that redff is scum. Did Banakai present a town read on his buddy too early? Did he want to take it back to avoid leaving what would be an obvious connection?

[This is a perspective I did not initially take - I originally was thinking Banakai gave a weak/empty town-read on redFF because he already knew he was town - but your explanation fits the weak-read too - Banakai is revising his weak/empty town-read on his scum-partner.]

I'd say #176 and #187 were really good. I'd still like to see the answer for #176 (unless I missed it when I was playing sordingo). #187 was just a good job noticing a person contradicting themselves and a good way to ask it.

However his recent posts have got me leaning scum now, it seems like he got lazy as scum and stopped looking town.

This is very general with nothing specific - he is continuing the read reversal on redff but as far as I can tell there is no reasoning behind him doing so. He still has reasoning for finding redff town but he is negating that with generic comment. I find the comment 'stopped looking town' quite interesting; I know of one alignment that tries to look town.

[I agree that "stopped looking town" was a strange way of describing his read's behaviour - it feels like Banakai is now firmly describing redFF as scum.]

VOTE: red ff ya I know I called him town

Continues the distancing. Note at this point; nobody is voting Redff. It's an extremely safe time for Banakai to try and attempt to distance himself from redff if he thought his town read was going to draw unwanted attention.

[If there were no votes on redFF at this time, yes, this isolated vote fits the narrative of Banakai distancing himself from redFF.]

VOTE: Boon

I bought idiot town for woody, but I have a hard time believing this slot was simply idiot town twice. Also not much point for me to be on a wagon nobody is helping with. I still suspect red ff.

Boons posts especially look more like scum than idiot town.

I will post more about him in a little bit

Weak reasoning for the switch onto Boon. This is the classic 'FoS buddy, vote town' scum tactic. He makes clear he is still suspect of Redff but because he is gaining no traction he will move onto Boon.

[Again, this ''FoS buddy, vote town' scum tactic' fits the narrative - Banakai's confusion between Boonskies and WoodyWoodpecker's slots only adds to the element of this being a "weak" scum-read.]

Basically boon and redff. I can understand some other wagons but they aren't screaming scum for me.

Boon for obvious reasons and I'll explain redff a little more when I get to a computer

Redff is still suspicious to him - we never see this case.

[Good observation - further possible evidence of distancing.]

I guess I just forgot to make that case cause I was being asked a lot about boonskies and nothing about redff. While my scum read isn't completely gone, There are much better candidates for votes now and I don't think we need yet another wagon.

Transformation is complete. He is still scum reading Redff, with no reasoning and having never presented a case but now there are much better lynch opportunities and there is no need to get into Redff now.

I could lynch Redff Today

.

[The points you have posted strengthen the narrative you are presenting: that Banakai and redFF are scum partners. However, I will now need to re-look at redFF's posts - it may have been Banakai's plan to implicate redFF by giving weak town/scum reads on him - creating WIFOM (similarly with his late push for a TonyMontana wagon).]

[Keyser Söze]

bbt making a bunch of noise

bad case!

He has BBT making a intricate attack on him, Keyser doing a respectable analysis of said attack, and this is his response.

A majority of your posts are as vapid as this one, you're the subject of major concern, act like it.

I part agree with TonyMontana - I needed/wanted a better response from redFF.

@redFF - can you see how that narrative could

fit

Banakai's posts about you? (re: Banakai distancing you as a scum-partner).

Are BlueBloodedToffee/myself over-reading the posts or do you think we have just cause to be suspicious?

[Keyser Söze]

Zoronos (3): RedCoyote, Kmd4390, Keyser Söze,
absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF
Tony Montana (2): absta101, Bulbazoor
redFF (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Tony Montana
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who
Kmd4390 (1): Zoronos

I am personally suprised the votes are so spread out with only 2 more scum left - obviously Banakai did a good job masking who his scum partners were.

[Keyser Söze]

Will post my thoughts Monday realistically.

I will review my scum-read of Zoronos.

In the mean-time, can either someone (or myself) look through who opposed the Banakai wagon on D1, or firmly town-read his slot.

[Keyser Söze]

Scum lurking

hoping Zoro wagon goes through.

Who are the scum lurking?

[Keyser Söze]

Anyway, vanilla villager. Hammer at your leisure scum.

Are you happy to keep your vote on Kmd4390?

[Keyser Söze]

Got an opinion on Zoro

, but since he's at L-1 I assume there's a claim forthcoming that I want to see first.

Can we hear this opinion please.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm catching up guys. Firstly, here is the VC history (with alignments highlighted):

Doctor Who (5): Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee, Keyser Söze, absta101, Bulbazoor
absta101 (2):

Zoronos

,

Kmd4390

Bulbazoor (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1): Tony Montana
Not Voting (4):

Banakai

, RedCoyote,

Haschel Cedricson

, redFF

Doctor Who (3): BlueBloodedToffee, absta101, Bulbazoor
absta101 (2):

Zoronos

,

Kmd4390

Bulbazoor (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1): Tony Montana
Not Voting (6):

Banakai

, RedCoyote,

Haschel Cedricson

, redFF, Boonskiies, Keyser Söze

RedCoyote (3): BlueBloodedToffee, Keyser Söze, Boonskiies
absta101 (2):

Zoronos

,

Kmd4390

Doctor Who (2): absta101, redff
Bulbazoor (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1): Tony Montana
redff (1):

Banakai

Not Voting (3): RedCoyote,

Haschel Cedricson

, Bulbazoor

absta101 (4):

Zoronos

,

Kmd4390

, Boonskiies, redff
Boonskiies (3): absta101,

Banakai

, Tony Montana
RedCoyote (1): BlueBloodedToffee
Bulbazoor (1): Doctor Who

Banakai

(1):

Haschel Cedricson

Not Voting (3): RedCoyote, Bulbazoor, Keyser Söze

Boonskiies (4): absta101,

Banakai

, Tony Montana,

Kmd4390

absta101 (3):

Zoronos

, Boonskiies, redff
Bulbazoor (1): Doctor Who

Banakai

(1):

Haschel Cedricson

Tony Montana (1): BlueBloodedToffee
Not Voting (3): RedCoyote, Bulbazoor, Keyser Söze

Boonskiies (4): absta101,

Banakai

, Tony Montana,

Kmd4390

absta101 (3):

Zoronos

, Boonskiies, redff

Banakai

(2):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote
Tony Montana (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who
Not Voting (2): Bulbazoor, Keyser Söze

Boonskiies (4): absta101,

Banakai

, Tony Montana,

Kmd4390

Banakai

(4):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, redff
absta101 (1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana (1): BlueBloodedToffee
Not Voting (1): Keyser Söze

Banakai

(5):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee
Boonskiies (4): absta101,

Banakai

, Tony Montana,

Kmd4390

absta101 (4):

Zoronos

, redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Banakai

(4):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies
Boonskiies (4): absta101,

Banakai

, Tony Montana,

Kmd4390

absta101 (3): redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who
Tony Montana (2):

Zoronos

, BlueBloodedToffee

Banakai

(7):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee, absta101,

Banakai

Boonskiies (3):

Banakai

, Tony Montana,

Kmd4390

absta101 (3): redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who
Tony Montana (1):

Zoronos

absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF

Zoronos

(1): RedCoyote
BlueBloodedToffee (1): absta101

absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF

Zoronos

(2): RedCoyote,

Kmd4390

BlueBloodedToffee (2): absta101, Doctor Who
Doctor Who (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting (3): Keyser Söze, Bulbazoor, TonyMontana

absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF

Zoronos

(2): RedCoyote,

Kmd4390

BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, Tony Montana

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana (1): absta101
Not Voting (3): Keyser Söze, Bulbazoor, BlueBloodedToffee

Zoronos

(3): RedCoyote,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze,
absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, Tony Montana

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana (1): absta101
redFF (1): BlueBloodedToffee
Not Voting (1): Bulbazoor

Zoronos

(3): RedCoyote,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze,
absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF
Tony Montana (2): absta101, Bulbazoor
redFF (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Tony Montana
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Zoronos

(3): RedCoyote,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze
absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF
Tony Montana (2): absta101, Bulbazoor
redFF (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting (1): Tony Montana

Zoronos

(4): RedCoyote,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze, redFF
Tony Montana (2): absta101, Bulbazoor
absta101 (1): Boonskiies
redFF (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting (1): Tony Montana[/size]

Zoronos

(6): RedCoyote,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze, redFF, absta101, Boonskiies
Tony Montana (1): Bulbazoor
redFF (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting (1): Tony Montana

[Keyser Söze]

is absta and tony too obvious a scumteam here?

i feel like the kmd kill and flip is supposed to make us look at the first few votes on the zoronos wagon, but i think absta's hop on it reeks of opportunistic scum, same with his hop on the banakai wagon day 1, except that was a bus

vote:absta

Looking at the VC history for D1 and D2, I can

see

this. I am very close to voting for absta101 - catching up. Looking at his late shift on the Zoronos wagon:

absta101 states he not convinced that Zoronos is scummy:

Alright, I think this game has been solved. Scum is in Tony/Redff/Zoro.

Like kmd says, you either believe Zoro genuinely misread/ignored(?) banakai or you think he was avoiding his scum buddy.

I'm not convinced on the Zoro-scum atm

, his answers to my biggest concerns were good.

absta101 states Zoronos is scummy but doesn't vote on him (Zoronos currently has 3 votes):

My question is, why were you voting me even though you had RedFF and Boon as scum and me as UNSURE.

Oh. My vote very frequently lags my suspicion. *shrug* You were my old suspicion, they were the new ones. I hadn't gotten around to moving it.

That's scummy

. I mean, I even mentioned it to you and you still didn't move it.

absta101 is now happy to join the Zoronos wagon:

@RC

- Yeah I agree, Zoro looks even more scummy considering the wagon. I will join it soon unless redff or Tony get more votes.

Going to need to look closer at absta101's slot.

[Keyser Söze]

BlueBloodedToffee, absta101 and redFF (only after BlueBloodedToffee's associative analysis via Banakai on redFF) are 3 players on my uncomfortable list - I've been town-reading redFF since D1 however.

I feel like I'll have to make a decision to side with BlueBloodedToffee-absta101 or redFF today. I'd previously noted/hinted a possible scum-connection between BlueBloodedToffee-absta101 on D1 but didn't want to push it without a flip.

I've already noticed a hard-defence by BlueBloodedToffee for absta101, which in turn is a hard-attack on redFF:

but i think absta's hop on it reeks of opportunistic scum, same with his hop on the banakai wagon day 1, except that was a bus

vote:absta

Yeah, just interpret the same action/situation in two completely different ways for no reason other than to suit the narrative you're trying to push.

I would also like for absta101 to explain this:

Alright, RC looks scummy and Redff even more so.

BBT is prob town due to Zoro's flip.

I will post more in detail later on but for now:
VOTE: Redff

absta101 declares a strong town-read of BlueBloodedToffee, followed by a vote on redFF.

[Keyser Söze]

Also, kmd probably died because he actually knows how to think and

he was dropping PR crumbs since D1.

Show me.

@Redff

i could lynch zoronos that is cool with me id just rather lynch absta

I had a look through your ISO and I didn't find you ever stating a scum read on zoro. Where did this come from? You just suddenly agreed with the wagon after RC promised you he'd push for my lynch after you join his Zoro wagon.

Interesting - I will need to look at redFF's read on Zoronos on D2.

@Boon

- What in the fucking shit was that vote yesterday, Zoro was a town read for you so why did you hammer him so quickly? You didn't even wait for Tony to respond, you just lynched him as soon as you could. Explain this.

What you did yesterday has literally no town motivation.

Agreed - it was anti-town to not post intent. I see this as a townie abusing our town-read of them. @Boonskiies - do not take advantage of our patience. Do you want us to policy lynch you?

I think the way BBT was 'defending' zoro was town and genuine

. I had the same reason for town reading zoro but I ultimately got convinced that he was scum whereas BBT stuck to the read.

Again - show me. Town-reading town could also be scum town-reading town to gain town-cred.

unvote

Why did you unvote absta101?

[Keyser Söze]

In the meantime, how about the Angel claiming?

@everyone

- could you please state your stance on this? Thanks

The PR's should only claim if they are L-1 (or earlier if we expect another quickhammer ) Keep the werewolves in the dark - they've already only killed 2 villagers - the only thing the werewolves are after are the town PR's. We're basically down to a 9 player newbie game with 2 scum left alive. However, we've had a 2 x investigation head start.

Does it matter? He flipped Villager and his crumbs were quite obvious.

I want to see these crumbs you've seen since D1 - IMO, it was subconsciously a scummy thing to mention. Plus, I want to see if you were just making this reason up.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm aware of the vote count and still want a Boon lynch as opposed to forcing a third claim today.

If I'm the Angel, I'm not claiming it today unless I'm about to be lynched.

Lol. That's fine. Keep saying that and I won't get NK'd.

I don't see any of these as crumbing a town PR.

- he was concerned about too many players roleclaiming on D1. A pro-town sentiment shared by a few.
- he was talking hypothetically - saying "if I'm the Angel" is not a crumb.
- I understood this as: if he's scum-read, he'd likely be kept alive by scum.

Thoughts?

[Keyser Söze]

absta101-BlueBloodedToffee scum narrative

I have some concerns.



Looking back towards the deadline of D1:

Both absta101 and BlueBloodedToffee were possibly pushing their respective counter-wagons - absta101 (on Boonskiies) and BlueBloodedToffee (TonyMontana). Strangely, absta101 was previously openly happy pushing either of the Banakai/Boonskies wagons (post 784, post 794, post 901), but then absta101 became frustrated:

This is fucked, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said, Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?
Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.

Here is RedCoyote trampling on BlueBloodedToffee's late wagon on Tony Montana:

Or Tony.

Tony can easily get to 5 votes and then we have another viable wagon.

Well, you're talking about cannibalizing another wagon to make this one, and I don't think that's necessary. Especially coming from you, someone that presumably had no issue with either Banakai or Boonskiies being lynched today.

Bottom line, HC has done a superior job selling me on Banakai than you have on TM. I don't see that changing in 36 hours.

(If we see absta101/BlueBloodedToffee's votes as possibly scum bussing their teammate), I'm beginning to believe this:

I've gotten a few responses to my theory that

Banakai was pissed at his scumbuddies

now when he self-hammered.

Fuck this shit VOTE: Banakai

[Keyser Söze]

I don't know if he was crumbing for sure that's just what I thought when I read them. I don't think it matters though, I don't know why you and Redff wanted to see this. It doesn't help you figure out anything about my alignment or anyone else. Me bringing this up is null.

You made a statement. I wanted you to post your reasons to back it up. I am not completely satisfied with your reasons.

i.e My rationale was: Was the initial statement made up on the spot, then you put together 3 weak quotes to justify it (which is scum-alignment indicative).

I do not know redFF's intentions for asking you the same question.

[Keyser Söze]

his crumbs were quite

obvious

.

I don't know

if he was crumbing for sure

Back-track?

Those 3 quotes you posted did not read "obvious" to me.

[Keyser Söze]

I remembered them as obvious. You showed me a different way of looking at it and now I am unsure if he was crumbing PR.

You even asked me for my thoughts on your view of the quotes.

Also, why are you cutting out an important part of the quote? This is how it goes.

I don't know if he was crumbing for sure

that's just what I thought when I read them

.

Yes, I was waiting for you to explain how they were "obvious" ["that's just what I thought when I read them" - exactly, show me]. You previously had just posted those 3 quotes with no reasoning.

I see this as a late revision to protect yourself.

"You showed me a different way of looking at it"

- possible, but it feels like a back-track.

[Keyser Söze]

I will look at my town-lean read of Bulbazoor this evening - 'no one is a closed case'. I have admittedly not looked at his slot for a while.

VOTE: absta101 - it is not a very strong scum-read, but currently my strongest scum-read from my 'uncomfortable' list.


Also, @redFF, when you have time, show me the progression/development of your scum-read of Zoronos on D2 (with quotes and comments).

Extra note: I do not believe absta101 and redFF are scum-scum. Either one scum or both town.

[Keyser Söze]

Tell me the scum motivation for me bringing up this about Kmd as

a lie

.

Let me answer that with a question: What would be a

townie's

motivation to 'lie'?

he was dropping PR crumbs since D1.

his crumbs were quite obvious

I still need to see you explain the 'obvious crumbs'.

A townie believes in everything they say, and are able to explain their thoughts - while I believe scum would naturally create reads/statements on the spot.

That is my concern.

[Keyser Söze]

Also, @redFF, when you have time, show me the progression/development of your scum-read of Zoronos on D2 (with quotes and comments).

i liked the wagon, thought there were 3 town looking players on it (u kmd RC) and i said i was fine with lynching the slot since he was p much null to me until he was pressured, i liked the case and saw my main target absta wasn't going to be lynched, so i got on that wagon

sorry if that is an unsatisfactory answer

I think you are an opportunistic townie

[Keyser Söze]

Notes on Bulbazoor (current town-lean read)

I saw consistency between Bulbazoor's scum-read and vote (post 306) -

town points

I suspected Bulbazoor of active lurking (post 620) -

scum points

Bulbazoor made an extensive post and vote on Banakai page 29 (post 702).

I believe this was the VC, prior to his vote on Banakai:
Boonskiies (4): absta101, Tony Montana, Kmd4390, Banakai
absta101 (2): Zoronos, Boonskiies
Banakai (2): Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote
Tony Montana (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, redff

Bulbazoor was not voting, but then voted for werewolf (Banakai) -

town points

Bulbazoor was late on the Doctor Who/WoodyWoodpecker wagon.
Bulbazoor was early on the Banakai wagon -

town points

Bulbazoor was on the Tony Montana wagon.


I will need to do a meta-check, but I have seen town-Bulbazoor vote for many players in

previous

games - in

this

game he could be described as more reserved: either not voting or voting for his 3 main scum reads (WoodyWoodpecker, Banakai and Tony Montana). Therefore, I do not know if this playstyle-change is alignment indicative but I feel it is worth flagging.

@Bulbazoor - are you aware of this change in voting-playstyle?

What is also interesting to note is that Bulbazoor has scum-read BlueBloodedToffee through-out this game, but is yet to vote for him. But Bulbazoor has evidently always had a stronger scum-read.

[Keyser Söze]

Notes on TonyMontana (current town-lean read)

Read his catch-up and early vote on Boonskiies as opportunistic (post 576) -

scum points

TonyMontana shared his D1 scum reads: "my main suspects as of this moment is BBT and banakai."

Banakai wrote: "I'm not seeing an absta as scum, but tony montana I'd be okay with but I still prefer boon"
Banakai accuses TonyMontana of being lurking scum: "I kind of fear that if tony IS lurking scum, that if we don't lynch him today we might not get around to it (until maybe a lylo) because we already have like 4 suspects and only more things are going to come up especially with a doctor and seer in the setup. (post 860).

This post came directly after Zoronos and BlueBloodedToffee had posted their two votes on TonyMontana. Banakai was at the time, the joint-leading wagon.

Banakai (4): Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies
Boonskiies (4): absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390
absta101 (3): redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Tony Montana (2): Zoronos, BlueBloodedToffee

Would have Banakai wanted to re-direct a wagon on his scum-teammate? -

Town points.

Banakai adds one more final thought on TonyMontana:

Also I agree that bringing up tony wagon at the end of deadline is kind of scummy, but then again I think tony could be scum.

The Boonskiies D1 counter-wagon: (4) absta101, Banakai (werewolf), TonyMontana, Kmd4390 (town).
I can't see all three werewolves being on this wagon. Thus, I don't see absta101-TonyMontana as scum-scum (one scum possible).

TonyMontana shared his top 3 D2 scum reads:
"Scum:
BlueBloodedToffee
Zoronos
redFF"

[Keyser Söze]

I'm quite close to voting you Doctor

Banakai confused Boonskiies' (Vinkah) slot with WoodyWoodpecker's (Doctor Who) slot:

VOTE: Boon

I bought idiot town for woody, but I have a hard time believing this slot was simply idiot town twice. Also not much point for me to be on a wagon nobody is helping with. I still suspect red ff.

Boons posts especially look more like scum than idiot town.

I will post more about him in a little bit

I actually made a mistake and though boon replaced woody but he didnt...

Still, woody pulled off idiot town much better than this guy. This guy still just looks like a scum.

Would have Banakai accidently said Boonskiies replaced his werewolf teammate Doctor Who?
No - it looks like Banakai confused the two replace-in slots of Boonskiies and Doctor Who (of which I both town-read).

[Keyser Söze]

Does anyone read absta101-redFF as scum-scum or town-town?

[Keyser Söze]

I am going to look at RedCoyote's ISO this afternoon.

[Keyser Söze]

I will need to do a meta-check, but I have seen town-Bulbazoor vote for many players in

previous

games - in

this

game he could be described as more reserved: either not voting or voting for his 3 main scum reads (WoodyWoodpecker, Banakai and Tony Montana). Therefore, I do not know if this playstyle-change is alignment indicative but I feel it is worth flagging.

@Bulbazoor - are you aware of this change in voting-playstyle?

What is also interesting to note is that Bulbazoor has scum-read BlueBloodedToffee through-out this game, but is yet to vote for him. But Bulbazoor has evidently always had a stronger scum-read.

@BlueBloodedToffee - have you noted this change in voting play-style?

[Keyser Söze]

Let's look at RedCoyote's town/scum reads and thought-process from D2.

D2

POSITIVE

Doctor Who:

BBT, I think you a succumbing to, "DW is scum being he should be" syndrome. Do you know what I mean?

BlueBloodedToffee:

I'm thinking BBT is legitimately, but overly paranoid, town.

Doctor Who, Boonskiies:

Shouldn't this give townpoints to both DW and Boonskiies?

Keyser Söze:

Anyway, I like KS' post here.

TonyMontana:

I think that last minute push at TM just reinforces my theory that TM is town.

Boonskiies, TonyMontana, Doctor Who:

Banakai's posts give me confident townreads on Boon, TM and DW.

Keyser Söze:

Questions like this one are a good reason why. Further, I see you reading the game and forming independent analysis (stack this against a player like Zoro or Bulba, for instance... big difference in style). I think your focus on TM is offbase, but I can appreciate your enthusiasm.

TonyMontana:

I liked TM's case against him.

Keyser Söze:

Come again? I found his D2 start to be the best of all of us (myself included).

Keyser Söze:

I feel confident that the makeup of the wagon is solidly town.

Boonskiies:

He's likely town

TonyMontana, redFF:

I read TM's 1146 and liked it. I thought he presented a very good point about redFF's hypocrisy in his push of you. I said it was good enough to make me rethink my previous redFF town read. redFF has since responded to the case in such a way that I no longer think these things. Period.

NEGATIVE

redFF, Bulbazoor:

I'm becoming more and more convinced our scumteam is Banakai/Zoro/absta or redFF or Bulba

BlueBloodedToffee:

Yeah, I think I would. In that case I think it would be BBT

[Keyser Söze]

I'm going to scrap the idea of trying to read based on who townread Banakai because I think that path just leads us to BBT

. Kmd was kind of an odd kill because Zoro was gunning for him yesterday pretty hard.

Interesting comment - does this clear BlueBloodedToffee?


RedCoyote then presents his case/vote on Bulbazoor.

[Keyser Söze]

BBT is not reading.

I think you are scum to be honest

. You are barely reading the context of the thread. I am stating that I do not like coyote so far and you ignore it. I townread zoro yesterday and abdta was a town read as well. Coyote, if you are town, stop deathtunneling me. You and tony are my scum reads

You have scum-read BlueBloodedToffee from D1, but still no vote for him?

Scum can town-read town to gain town-cred - using it as an argument is scummy.

Confident town reads:
Doctor Who
TonyMontana

Weak town read:
Boonskiies

Uncomfortable zone:
BlueBloodedToffee
redFF

Lynch candidate:
Bulbazoor

@MOD. VC please.

I think Bulbazoor is L-1, I can hammer or should we look at D3 more?

[Keyser Söze]

In memory of RedCoyote:

VOTE: Bulbazoor

[Keyser Söze]

This is where I am:

redFF today.

BlueBloodedToffee tomorrow (but not before a closer look at Boonskiies' slot!).


My 'confident town-reads' have been 100% so far.
I'll post more tomorrow/this weekend.

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, I will post my full reads and reasons this weekend.

Could you explain your change of read on redFF:

Yeah, if Bulba flips scum I'm 100% lynching Redff.

No.

Not redff

[Keyser Söze]

do you think I would be alive if Redff was scum?

The strongest town-reads have been killed each night (or who scum thought were the PR's), there was no chance of you, Boonskiies (or redFF if town) being NK'd.

absta101 scum-read redFF but was kept alive because he was obviously lynch-bait, and was lynched by town.

[Keyser Söze]

Sure, I mean, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

In my opinion, if Redff was scum, I would now be dead. He would have known I was coming into this Day looking for his head and I just drove a scum lynch as well - I have been left alive to drive a mislynch on Redff. I feel fairly confident that he is town.

Last scum is in Boon/Keyser.

I think everyone is "looking for his head" now. Doctor Who's narrative on Bulbazoor-redFF was very good.

Let me take a step back.
I've only had a weak town-read of Boonskiies since D1 because Banakai was scum-reading him hard on D1 and pushing his wagon. I will need to look at the D1

Banakai vs Boonskiies

'confrontation' again - do you think it was scum theatrics to create WIFOM?


Digging up a Boonskiies read-list, this is very alarming:

Solid town read:


Tony
BBT
Bulb
Zoronos
KMD


null ish on:

redFF

Who

RC


Scum:

Keyser
Absta.


So I have some pretty drastic read changes...I no longer believe Kmd is scum, and

Keyser is yet again hard pinging me

.

I believe one of Absta/Redff to be scum

, and 100% agree that one of them should be the lynch toDay. I would much prefer Absta, to be honest, if only for the fact that I feel Absta is more slippery than Redff.

There is no way Bulb is scum in my eyes

. Who I have barely been reading his posts, to be honest. And RC, i've been reading, but too lazy to form an opinion on.

I want Absta lynched

.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Boon

I bought idiot town for woody, but I have a hard time believing this slot was simply idiot town twice. Also not much point for me to be on a wagon nobody is helping with. I still suspect red ff.

Boons posts especially look more like scum than idiot town.

I will post more about him in a little bit

A few points here:

- Banakai confuses Boonskiie's slot for WoodyWoodpecker's.
It was Doctor Who who replaced WoodyWoodpecker (Boonskiies who replaced Vinkah).

Questions

Would scum-Banakai confuse his scum partner Boonskiies for WoodyWoodpecker's slot?
Was this a slip or an intentional 'slip'?


- "I still suspect red ff." Banakai repeats his scum-read of redFF.

Earlier Banakai had declared: "red ff is town". The chronological progression of his town-to-scum-read on redFF was contradictory (which was scummy).

[Keyser Söze]

And on the other side I'm sitting here wondering - why the fuck is Keyser still alive? Everybody and their dog has been town reading you since D1, and yet, here you are.

According to my town-read list, either me or Doctor Who will be night-killed next.
There have been no suprising/shocking NK's so far.

But as I said, there was no chance of you, Boonskiies or redFF being NK'd (my opinion, based on my town-reads).

I need to dig-up why I thought RedCoyote had investigated you...

I would

not

want to lynch one of RedCoyote's town-reads today (I presume Bulbazoor was his one positive result, and he got town-results for the other investigations).

[Keyser Söze]

Banakai's case on Boonskiies (scum vs scum? ):

post 499
post 690

This was VC @ Post #678 (the LEADING WAGON):

Boonskiies (4): absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390

absta101 (3): Zoronos, Boonskiies, redff
Banakai (2): Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote
Tony Montana (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Not Voting (2): Bulbazoor, Keyser Söze



Banakai had a hard-on for the Boonskiies lynch - but slipped in redFF's name too:

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

Who are you considering and why?

Basically boon and redff

. I can understand some other wagons but they aren't screaming scum for me.

Woody's slot I have to see more from his replacement

Boon for obvious reasons and I'll explain redff a little more when I get to a computer

I would be uncomfortable with a Boonskiies-lynch atm based on Banakai's D1 attention on Boonskiies slot.

[Keyser Söze]

In fact, before I even look any further into your ISO

VOTE: Keyser

This needs to happen.

This lynch won't be happening. If I am lynched, Doctor Who will be NK'd.
Then town will be left with you, redFF and Boonskiies
3 players I do not have a strong town read of.

My online-activity has been low on various threads and forums these past couple weeks - it is not alignment indicative.
I have been happy with my performance this game, and the development of my reads. It wasn't 100%, but 2 out of 4 is very good IMO.

Btw, you have been in my 'uncomfortable' list for most of the game. This means I did not fully town-read you, but it didn't mean I wanted to lynch you. I favoured Banakai, Zoronos, absta101 and Bulbazoor lynches over you.
By PoE you can still be town, but you are not in my TOP TOWN PACK (which I have been consistent with since D1)

This is where I am:

I do not want these lynched D1:

Kmd4390
Red Coyote

Doctor Who

Haschel Cedricson
Zoronos

redff

Uncomfortable zone:

Bulbazoor

Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone:

Banakai

Tony Montana

absta101

I do not think Boonskiies-Banakai or Doctor Who-BlueBloodedToffee is scum-scum.

More of my town-lean reads are on the Banakai wagon. More of my scum-lean reads are on the Boonskiies wagon. Even though I believe a Boonskiies flip would tell us alot about other players, I do not want to lynch a player I town-lean (weak) read. But I would prefer a Boonskiies/Banakai lynch than a no lynch. I currently do not like the Banakai lynch because I fear possible opportunistic scum-play by BlueBloodedToffee and absta101.

I'm liking redFF as town now (he has become a vocal (direct) player - he has been more motivated versus the 1st half of D1). I liked his stance that it shouldn't be a case of choosing between

Boonskiies or Banakai

.

VOTE: absta101

D2

I do not want these lynched D2:
Boonskiies
redff

Red Coyote

Doctor Who

Kmd4390

Bulbazoor

Uncomfortable zone:

Tony Montana

BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone (D2 lynch candidates):

absta101

Zoronos

Currently, more of my town-reads are on my two main scum-read wagons:

absta101 (2): Boonskiies, redFF
Zoronos (3): RedCoyote, Kmd4390, Keyser Söze
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, Tony Montana
Kmd4390 (1): Zoronos
Tony Montana (1): absta101
Not Voting (2): Bulbazoor, BlueBloodedToffee

I no longer think absta101-Tony Montana are

both

scum, more likely one town or both town.

BBT is not reading.

I think you are scum to be honest

. You are barely reading the context of the thread. I am stating that I do not like coyote so far and you ignore it. I townread zoro yesterday and abdta was a town read as well. Coyote, if you are town, stop deathtunneling me. You and tony are my scum reads

You have scum-read BlueBloodedToffee from D1, but still no vote for him?

Scum can town-read town to gain town-cred - using it as an argument is scummy.

Confident town reads:
Doctor Who

TonyMontana

Weak town read:
Boonskiies

Uncomfortable zone:
BlueBloodedToffee
redFF

Lynch candidate:

Bulbazoor

@MOD. VC please.

I think Bulbazoor is L-1, I can hammer or should we look at D3 more?

I promise to give you a full-read on your slot this weekend.

This will affirm my positions on redFF and Boonkiies' slots too

[Keyser Söze]

Will add D3 and D4 when I can:

Doctor Who (5): Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee, Keyser Söze,

absta101

,

Bulbazoor

absta101

(2):

Zoronos

,

Kmd4390

Bulbazoor

(1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Tony Montana

Not Voting (4):

Banakai

,

RedCoyote

,

Haschel Cedricson

, redFF

Doctor Who (3): BlueBloodedToffee,

absta101

,

Bulbazoor

absta101

(2):

Zoronos

,

Kmd4390

Bulbazoor

(1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Tony Montana

Not Voting (6):

Banakai

,

RedCoyote

,

Haschel Cedricson

, redFF, Boonskiies, Keyser Söze

RedCoyote

(3): BlueBloodedToffee, Keyser Söze, Boonskiies

absta101

(2):

Zoronos

,

Kmd4390

Doctor Who (2):

absta101

, redff

Bulbazoor

(1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Tony Montana

redff (1):

Banakai

Not Voting (3):

RedCoyote

,

Haschel Cedricson

,

Bulbazoor

absta101

(4):

Zoronos

,

Kmd4390

, Boonskiies, redff
Boonskiies (3):

absta101

,

Banakai

,

Tony Montana

RedCoyote

(1): BlueBloodedToffee

Bulbazoor

(1): Doctor Who

Banakai

(1):

Haschel Cedricson

Not Voting (3):

RedCoyote

,

Bulbazoor

, Keyser Söze

Boonskiies (4):

absta101

,

Banakai

,

Tony Montana

,

Kmd4390

absta101

(3):

Zoronos

, Boonskiies, redff

Bulbazoor

(1): Doctor Who

Banakai

(1):

Haschel Cedricson

Tony Montana

(1): BlueBloodedToffee
Not Voting (3):

RedCoyote

,

Bulbazoor

, Keyser Söze

Boonskiies (4):

absta101

,

Banakai

,

Tony Montana

,

Kmd4390

absta101

(3):

Zoronos

, Boonskiies, redff

Banakai

(2):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote

Tony Montana

(1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who
Not Voting (2):

Bulbazoor

, Keyser Söze

Boonskiies (4):

absta101

,

Banakai

,

Tony Montana

,

Kmd4390

Banakai

(4):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote,

Bulbazoor

, Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who, redff

absta101

(1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana

(1): BlueBloodedToffee
Not Voting (1): Keyser Söze

Banakai

(5):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote,

Bulbazoor

, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee
Boonskiies (4):

absta101

,

Banakai

,

Tony Montana

,

Kmd4390

absta101

(4):

Zoronos

, redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Banakai

(4):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote,

Bulbazoor

, Boonskiies
Boonskiies (4):

absta101

,

Banakai

,

Tony Montana

,

Kmd4390

absta101

(3): redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Tony Montana

(2):

Zoronos

, BlueBloodedToffee

Banakai

(7):

Haschel Cedricson

, Red Coyote,

Bulbazoor

, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee,

absta101

,

Banakai

Boonskiies (2):

Tony Montana

,

Kmd4390

absta101

(3): redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Tony Montana

(1):

Zoronos

absta101

(2): Boonskiies, redFF

Zoronos

(1):

RedCoyote

BlueBloodedToffee (1):

absta101

absta101

(2): Boonskiies, redFF

Zoronos

(2):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

absta101

, Doctor Who
Doctor Who (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting (3): Keyser Söze,

Bulbazoor

, TonyMontana

absta101

(2): Boonskiies, redFF

Zoronos

(2):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who,

Tony Montana

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana

(1):

absta101

Not Voting (3): Keyser Söze,

Bulbazoor

, BlueBloodedToffee

Zoronos

(3):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze,

absta101

(2): Boonskiies, redFF
BlueBloodedToffee (2): Doctor Who,

Tony Montana

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana

(1):

absta101

redFF (1): BlueBloodedToffee
Not Voting (1):

Bulbazoor

Zoronos

(3):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze,

absta101

(2): Boonskiies, redFF

Tony Montana

(2):

absta101

,

Bulbazoor

redFF (2): BlueBloodedToffee,

Tony Montana

BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Zoronos

(3):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze

absta101

(2): Boonskiies, redFF

Tony Montana

(2):

absta101

,

Bulbazoor

redFF (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting (1):

Tony Montana

Zoronos

(4):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze, redFF

Tony Montana

(2):

absta101

,

Bulbazoor

absta101

(1): Boonskiies
redFF (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting (1):

Tony Montana

Zoronos

(6):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze, redFF,

absta101

, Boonskiies

Tony Montana

(1):

Bulbazoor

redFF (1): BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting (1):

Tony Montana

[Keyser Söze]

"Did someone say L-1?"



Is town-reading scum and scum-reading town all game,

bad-town

or

scummy

?

[Keyser Söze]

I want to hear his case on me and Doctor Who first

[Keyser Söze]

i had a poor game from the start so i see where ppl are coming from tbh.

The only way you can escape the silver bullet is if you convince everyone that I or Doctor Who, your scum-reads, are a werewolf.

[Keyser Söze]

I hope to post my read on BlueBloodedToffee in the next 24 hours.

7 days til the deadline.

[Keyser Söze]

I really hope that Keyser is Mafia, then.

I am willing to be lynched today to have you lynched tomorrow.

Here's my vote: VOTE: Dierfire

[Keyser Söze]

This is where I am:

redFF today.

BlueBloodedToffee tomorrow (but not before a closer look at Boonskiies' slot!).


My 'confident town-reads' have been 100% so far.

From my perspective we should not be lynching one of Red Coyote's town reads. We should be lynching from his scum pool

If Doctor Who is scum, the werewolves have won IMO, as I trust in my town-reads, and won't be lynching Doctor Who.