Prozac's Basic Theme 4 - Murder in Marlowe - OVER!

[Starbuck]

Ahh, my dumb self didn't save this to bookmarks when I confirmed. Wassup y'all??


Just because I can

VOTE: xRECKONERx

[Starbuck]

This is like a straight old school game.....me, Reck, SC, CDB, CKD, Zito. Nice.

SC! Why are you blue?

Goddamnit stop quickwagoning my partner

Your partner? Reck, are you not telling me sumpthin?

[Starbuck]

Oh dude, I totally left Nexus off my list.

[Starbuck]

Oh geez, this jumped a few pages on the overnight. I'm about to head out the door for Melbourne, but I'll spend some time reading on my tablet later tonight and have a nice catch up when I get home tomorrow. I need to re-read, anyways, now that my excitement over the player list has subsided.

In the off chance of being delayed during travel,

V/LA until Monday

.

[Starbuck]

Oh and

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx

[Starbuck]

As I just said in PM to Porochaz, I ended up getting back very late last night and got up not too long ago. I'm already reading through and y'all will have something before the end of Monday. I figured I, at least, had the duration of Monday.

[Starbuck]

Going back to RVS.....

Most everything seemed to be pretty fun/tongue-in-cheek until Marquis' attempt to bring it all back down to Earth in #16. After SC's questioning of it, he responds with this:

what makes you think this is an RVS wagon

i feel like in accordance with my resolution to be useful this game i should probably ask you why it isn't

buttttt

VOTE: SC

you're weird and maybe scum

This quick switcharound feels off to me. I mean, we all know that SC is weird, but the quick hop of Marquis thinking that he's scum for these two mere interactions is quite a jump.

idk why people think they have a "gut" town read.

Me, too.


Not liking Marquis' #101. I feel like he's trying too hard to garner something. I mean, Spiffeh doesn't look all the great in his own right, but it just seems too little to base a case so soon into the game.

Also....

ftr i have a stronger scumread on coug by far but i don't expect anyone to follow on that

This is pretty shady. It shouldn't matter to you what everyone else does. If you, unequivocally, believe that someone is scum. You should have your vote there and not some silly excuse as to why it isn't.

It seems that once SC gives his permission for Marquis' vote, and once someone else (pirate mollie) votes first. Then he switches to SC? This is so frakking weird.

Not to mention that in #120, he admits that he saw Spiffeh's question but chose not to answer it. What do you have to hide, Marquis?


The quick jumps onto SC are questionable. Wagonnnnnnnn HOOOOOOOOO!


Ending at the bottom of Page 5.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of Page 6....

spiffeh could be town. (reread post 60 for the 3rd time in context and i'm liking it a lot more, even more than i liked it reading it the 2nd time)

This is a really quick turnaround on a case that he was wholeheartedly pushing and summarily dropped.


For everyone, so is it normal now to just list out your town reads? Like I barely know how I feel about everyone else, other than pure gut, save for those that I am suspicious of. Not to mention that I haven't played here in forever, so even those that I played with before will take me a while to get used to again.


Whoa, that's a surprise. I'm agreeing with CKD in #159 on Marquis.

one of these people on the Coug wagon tell me what this wagon on Coug is about?....thinking am missing it.

Opportunistic wagon a-go go.

Spiffeh isn't winning any town points for adding to the SC train in #167 and the reasoning in #152 is rather terribad.

one of these people on the Coug wagon tell me what this wagon on Coug is about?....thinking am missing it.

don't you find it the least bit strange that strangerkitty is only interacting with only like 2 pple? I mean that alone shld be noteworthy I wld think.

I for 1 am wondering why he is ignoring the person who started his wagon especially since I made a specific reference to a game we were in that he shld have picked up on. don't you find that weird?

This early in a large game, you kinda just roll with the conversations. It's kind of odd that you would bring up the number of people that SC has interacted with as a way to cast a shadow on him. As far as my read through after the fact, I see him interacting with more than two people. Given that this particular post was written in the middle of a Saturday, he could have easily had a busy day and just checked in when he could on the weekend. I, typically, take post day and time into consideration as I'm usually more active with mafia during week days than weekends.

Maybe you should take these thoughts and rephrase them into direct questions for SC. Going back to reading earlier, it didn't really feel like your vote on him was all that serious.


Looking at the vote count in #187, I'm not a big fan of this SC wagon.

StrangerCoug - 6 - Mollie, Marquis, Flameaxe, notscience, scotmany, spiffeh

It feels very easy and very opportunistic.



Notscience, you say in #193 that "the lack of a counterwagon" bugs you. Why?


Spiffeh vs SC is interesting. After this thorough read, I'm going to need to explore that one a little closer.


Marquis' #227 vote on CKD doesn't surprise me in the least. OMGUS at its finest. CKD saw quite a bit of the same things that I saw in Marquis. The listing of town reads (which I don't remember much of a few years back) really seems to be a way for scum to try and look like they are adding to the game, but also as a way to make villagers look scummy for not listing their town reads. It's a strange tactic, and I feel, given that no one else did a full out list of reads that Marquis just did it to garner some town points. I'm already not feeling Marquis so this straight OMGUS vote back on CKD doesn't help him in my eyes.

i don't like how you're trying to throw out extremely stretchy associatives between me and spiffeh on page 7, after you've criticized my own stretchy case

Also, this is a strange reaction to my post. What exactly dont you like about the above? You made a stretchy ass case on spiff, but then abandoned it for little to no reason.

to me..that seems like you really didnt believe it (seems like theater). IF Spiff DOES flip scum, that vote/unvote is suspicious. So that I am clear, you dont see how ANYONE could view that suspiciously? Now in that same post, I mentioned..."hey it's day 1..everything is stretchy" but the timing in which you unvoted seemed....off...and this reaction...more so.

VOTE: ckd

Catboi, what about that post garnered your vote? If you already answered this for someone else, can you link me to the post? Thanks.

I am never a good lynch on d1, ever, even if I am scum.

How is this even considered a defense? We could all say the same of ourselves.

In regards to #244, I find it fairly scummy to refuse to answer questions, even if you deem the asker as scum. I'm not sure why that devolved into a history of your past games with SC, as it feels to be an all-over the place reasoning for voting him. Additionally, your initial vote carried none of this with it.


Ending at the bottom of Page 10

[Starbuck]

I don't really feel like starbuck is reading my posts, he is skimming and cherry picking.

I donnae like it.

I'm reading, but also remember I'm doing a big catch up at the moment. If there's something that you'd like me to pay particular attention to, please guide me that way.

[Starbuck]

Heh, if you knew me at all, you'd know I wouldn't go anywhere near ckd's ass.

[Starbuck]

Anyways, back to the major catch up. I'll address mollie's ridiculousn self-defensiveness when I get through that.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of Page 11...

Why am I not surprised at Marquis' swap to the SC wagon in #251? This guy just really seems to want a lynch, any lynch.

My gut is telling me that there's some kind of link between mollie and Marquis.

I'm also concerned with Marquis' statements that include "I'd probably say this if I was scum" and "this isn't me trying to excuse my wishywashy reads." It just doesn't sit right with me.



You know in the majority of all this back and forth, there's a severe lack of Reck.

I have zero qualms with Davsto votes. I like scoug more but this is some questionable inactivity from dav

Why do you like the votes? Just because of his inactivity? That's kinda shady.

Why is everyone dropping town reads? Thought this was an experienced group. It does us NO GOOD to do this. IF you really thought someone was town, telling everyone is good play becasue? It is like painting a fucking target. So why do it without anyone asking? I find, that scum do it a lot. Way of making friends…oh look..and you got 7 town reads based on jack shit. Welcome to my scum read.

This has been a question of mine, as well. I've already asked my question about it in a previous catch up post, so hopefully someone answered it between then and now. I don't see the point to do it as town.


So it takes bins' vote of SC to get Marquis to unvote SC. Interesting.

Are you high on turkey or something? You just made a stink about how you read the game and this major life event culminated in an SC vote. I'm asking why it ended in an SC vote vs all the other eligible bachelors/bachelorettes/attack helicopters we have ITT. And I'm getting back chinese fortune cookies for answers.

Ahh, this made me laugh pretty damn hard. I've missed you, Zito.

p-edit great googly moogly is this english

Not to insult anyone, but part of how long my catch up is taking is deciphering what others are trying to say.

@ ckd and starbuck

I think that what we are experiencing here is a bit of a site meta/join date/playstyle clash. marquis pointed this out earlier. 1 of the things that have changed is that pple are more fluid with their reads and are more likely to work with their townreads earlier in the game. both notty and marquis (and me, I just feel like I got lucky and hit the jackpot with sc, egg on my face if I am wrong) but i usually work from the townside out, which means I try to find town first and go from there. that is what they both normally do, so what they are doing is not unusual nor is it scummy, it just might be different from how you play, idk, I am just going off of what you guys have posted so far but there seems to be a bit of a whirlpool of misunderstanding going on. i know you both know this but different /=scummy. for some strange reason I felt like it needed to be said.

I don't necessarily feel that it's playstyle because it's coming off as forced to me. I could concede to playstyle differences if that factor wasn't there.

Trust me, I know that different does not equal scummy. I used to play on the View Askew board when that was in existence, and still play a game on Mafiastache every now and again. The playstyles between those two boards and MS are EXTREMELY different, especially since one real day = one game day in any of the ones that we play over there. So what I'm saying is, from the get go of me joining the original VA board in early 2009 and then joining over here later on in that year, I've been needing to adjust my playstyle depending on which message board that I am playing on.

In this case, it doesn't feel like a playstyle difference to me and the fact that you would try to display it as otherwise is suspect to me, and this subtle whiteknighting just adds to my feeling of some kind of connection between you and Marquis. I, truly, feel that (at least in the case of Marquis right now) that needing to talk about who is town, rather than who is scum, is forced and is a way for him to add content to the game without much substance.


Ending at the bottom of Page 14

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of Page 15....

So with MattP replacing SC, mollie just removes her vote all together. The role/slot hasn't changed. So why not keep your vote there?


I already responded to mollie's #354, but I find it highly suspect that instead of pointing me in the direction of clarification, mollie just wants to throw shade and say that I'm skimming and cherry picking. I mean, I can't quote every single post and respond, but if there is something that I missed in this huge thorough catch up that I'm doing, why not just point me in that direction for further reading or give an explanation if you dislike my take on what I read?

This early in a large game, you kinda just roll with the conversations. It's kind of odd that you would bring up the number of people that SC has interacted with as a way to cast a shadow on him. As far as my read through after the fact, I see him interacting with more than two people. Given that this particular post was written in the middle of a Saturday, he could have easily had a busy day and just checked in when he could on the weekend. I, typically, take post day and time into consideration as I'm usually more active with mafia during week days than weekends.

Maybe you should take these thoughts and rephrase them into direct questions for SC. Going back to reading earlier, it didn't really feel like your vote on him was all that serious.

I made a whole big giant post about why i think sc is scum. I feel like you are making the weirdest excuses for him while dismissing my case.

hey if you think it is stupid just say so. but what you have said here makes me think that you didn't pay particular attention to my post at all.

Marquis' #227 vote on CKD doesn't surprise me in the least. OMGUS at its finest. CKD saw quite a bit of the same things that I saw in Marquis. The listing of town reads (which I don't remember much of a few years back) really seems to be a way for scum to try and look like they are adding to the game, but also as a way to make villagers look scummy for not listing their town reads. It's a strange tactic, and I feel, given that no one else did a full out list of reads that Marquis just did it to garner some town points. I'm already not feeling Marquis so this straight OMGUS vote back on CKD doesn't help him in my eyes.

have you played with dgb before?

In regards to #244, I find it fairly scummy to refuse to answer questions, even if you deem the asker as scum. I'm not sure why that devolved into a history of your past games with SC, as it feels to be an all-over the place reasoning for voting him. Additionally, your initial vote carried none of this with it.

if you read the entire sentence all the way through, you wld see that I gave pretty plausible reason to not respond. I wanted a meatier discussion with ckd and I think he did too that is why he made the statement that he did. our relationship has evolved.

I think if there is any buddying going on I think it is you who is kissing ckd's ass and not even bothering to read anybody else except on a surface level.

On your #244

1. You made a giant post that was nearly unintelligible to read or easy to follow. I planned to go back and try to make sense of it AFTER my huge catch up, but I'll take a look right now.

2. Other than describing the games in which you both played in #244, you never even stated an actual reason WHY SC could be scum. After that huge block of words, it comes down to your gut. That's it.

3. You are getting more and more overdefensive as people ask where you are coming from, or why your vote is going a certain direction when you give no real reason. Being condescending and stating things like "OMG I THINK HE IS SCUM FOR REAONS THAT MIGHT BE OUTSIDE OF YOUR EXPERIENCE" is not helpful to the town at all.

4. I want you to tell us why you think/thought SC is scum. What is it about his posts that made you vote for him? What kind of tone did you take from a particular post to give you that vibe? I don't want to see a history of every game you ever played with him as you deflect the question over and over. Scale down on the fluff and get to the point.

On the above

1. Why do you feel like I am making excuses for SC? I don't feel like I dismissed your case. I read it, and it was full of fluff and based off your gut, rather than actions within THIS game.

2. I paid attention to it, but I paid as much attention to it as I did every other post as I was catching up through 15+ pages of gameplay.

3. By DGB, I assume you mean DrippingGoofball?

4. It's never plausible to not respond, unless you've already stated the answer previously. In a game that requires questions AND answers, not answering isn't helpful. You aren't just answering a question for that person, but for everyone in the game.

Anyway, I haven't really played here that much, but I think townhunting is a perfectly valid and legitimate strategy, so long as it's done properly - real towntells are stronger than scumtells, and process of elimination works for weeding out scum. I'm used to smaller games but I think in a large game it's harder to bear down on specific people as scummy with so much to read. If you get some good townreads and lynch everyone who you're unsure of, you'll win. Assuming you pick them for good reasons, anyway.


I don't know that I necessarily agree with every townread that's been said but I want more to look at things myself rather than nitpick at a read I don't understand.

I can see that. I'm just particularly wary of folks who come out so quickly with a townreads list. It does help with the process of elimination for town, but I also feel that they are helping the scum by lining up which of the vocal villagers should be eliminated.

Anyways, back to the major catch up. I'll address mollie's ridiculousn self-defensiveness when I get through that.

yes. by all means plz point out how pointing out that you are skimming my posts is somehow "ridiculousn" self-defensiveness.

Heh, if you knew me at all, you'd know I wouldn't go anywhere near ckd's ass.

I bet you even tried to say this with a straight face.

Again, I'm not skimming your posts. I gave your posts as much time as I gave every other one, but yes, continue to throw shade because your assumptions are totally helpful.

And somehow, I randomly added an "N" on the end of "ridiculous."

Also, you obviously don't really know about my history with CKD or you wouldn't have made your initial statement.

Good to see your reasoning for the unvote in #374, though.

End of Page 15.

[Starbuck]

Why do you like the votes? Just because of his inactivity? That's kinda shady.

I'm not sure you know what the word inactivity means. His ISO isn't inactivity.

You didn't say ISO. You said inactivity.

I have zero qualms with Davsto votes. I like scoug more but this is some questionable inactivity from dav

You have no qualms with votes on Davsto, but you make it seem like Davsto is a better vote because of his inactivity. Why?

[Starbuck]

i probably could have formatted that better. i hate walls and i know that's particularly hard to read. i'm working on it.

Actually, that was perfect. Thanks for taking the time for a thorough explanation.

[Starbuck]

Additionally, I'll stop when I'm good and ready. I think it's too easy to blame my questioning on playstyle differences. Frankly, I think it's an excuse to discredit what I've said.

[Starbuck]

Why do you like the votes? Just because of his inactivity? That's kinda shady.

I'm not sure you know what the word inactivity means. His ISO isn't inactivity.

You didn't say ISO. You said inactivity.

I have zero qualms with Davsto votes. I like scoug more but this is some questionable inactivity from dav

You have no qualms with votes on Davsto, but you make it seem like Davsto is a better vote because of his inactivity. Why?

Okay so you're an idiot. Got it. I never said anything about Davsto being a better vote, if that was the case, wouldn't my vote be different? Did you leave your common sense at the door or what? Arguing ISO vs not ISO is idiotic. He's posting and doing fuck-all actively.

Go start a semantics pissing contest somewhere else.

I'm not quite sure where this hostility came from. I was uncertain of what you meant and asked for further explanation.

I'm wasn't all that sure what you were trying to say by "His ISO isn't inactivity." If my above interpretation is wrong, tell me why it is wrong. Don't insult me because I didn't understand what you are trying to say. There's no reason for the nastiness.

[Starbuck]

And seriously, where the seven hells is Reck? You've got to have some input at this point, love.

[Starbuck]

k

I've heard good things about you, and was genuinely asking for further explanation. I didn't expect you to take my head off in that fashion for requesting a simple explanation. Kinda shitty in all actuality.

[Starbuck]

Too late. Mollie's entire case on SC is based on meta.

[Starbuck]

FINALLY. Good lord. You were just waiting for my catch up. I knew it.

[Starbuck]

i've also just noticed starbuck keeps making post after post (like at least 5 of them on me by now) about how things i'm doing look "forced" or "concerning" or how they "just don't sit right with me" yet hasn't even voted me yet. not sure how to feel about that.

this is actually a good point.

Given that I was catching up, I was noting things that concerned me. As I read farther on, some things concerned me a bit less than others and some a bit more. Should I not annotate that at all and thus not help with scumhunting?

A few things that Marquis did and said concerned me, but if I haven't voted yet, it's not enough to garner my vote. I wanted to see some reaction to my words before voting for anyone because, at least with the folks I don't really know, I'm going to gauge my vote on both my initial stated feelings as I read through, as well as on their reaction. So far, I'm actually pretty good with how Marquis has handled my questioning and I like his reaction. He has seemed to be cool, calm, and collective and took the time to explain his thoughts and why he has done what he has done. Hence, my nonvote.

[Starbuck]

I will tackle starbuck whom I from now on am going to call "bucky" after I get a response from you. I do want to reply to another post you made.

Bucky? Please no.

Starbuck or SB is fine.

[Starbuck]

In America? It very well could be.

[Starbuck]

Man, Davsto, your ISO is weak as hell. There's no substance, at all.

[Starbuck]

Seriously, I've noted several times that I'm unable to read through the game right now. I will do in a couple of hours. You have my permission to pester me if I don't deliver, but please leave me alone right now.

If you can't do it right now, that's fine and dandy. However, you continue to post and not add a damn thing to the game. You easily respond to whatever is going on or start a re-read with all the time that you are taking to say how you can't keep up.

[Starbuck]

EBWOP: You can easily respond to whatever is going on.

[Starbuck]

Mollie, will you be responding to any of my catch up posts?

[Starbuck]

@ star: will you actually read it?

I read everything. This whole to-do that you're making that I don't read through is getting old very fast when I have a huge catch up, that I just did in the past day, which proves otherwise.

[Starbuck]

VOTE: pirate mollie

I'm not a fan of being ignored. The fact that you're concentrating more on CDB now, who has been your only vote for pages and pages, and not responding/interacting outside of that isn't helpful.

I can go back within my catch up posts and give a nice thorough, easy-to-read case, but I have to jet out for a bit. If anyone wants that, let me know and I'll make it nice and pretty for ya.

I was hanging tight because I was awaiting some kind of response from mollie, but it seems that she wants to continue to lean on the assumption that I didn't read what she said (when I read it not once on my initial read through, but went back and re-read a few times to break down exactly what I felt was wrong about it) and continue to discredit me using that same reasoning when it is blatantly not true.

[Starbuck]

I'm not a fan of being ignored. The fact that you're concentrating more on CDB now, who has been your only vote for pages and pages, and not responding/interacting outside of that isn't helpful.

You're making this vote

in the middle of me and mollie having an ongoing argument

and complaining that she's ignoring you?

C'mon. Context.

It seems like she was dead set to ignore me even before this argument started. When I asked if she would respond, instead of saying "yes" or "no", she went with "will you read it?" and continues to lean on this horrid assumption that I haven't read a single one of her posts.

So yeah, making a second vote on her is the way to go for me for the moment.

[Starbuck]

You Reck Starbuck

I thought there were more but those are who I remember off the top of my head from reading the last few pages

That's not a consensus. That's like a peanut gallery.

[Starbuck]

Yeah, Starbuck, but do you not see that complaining that you're being ignored while she is clearly distracted is kinda tone-deaf

I can concede to that.

However, my vote stands for the time being.

[Starbuck]

VOTE: pirate mollie

I'm not a fan of being ignored. The fact that you're concentrating more on CDB now, who has been your only vote for pages and pages, and not responding/interacting outside of that isn't helpful.

I have not voted cdb all game.

Meaning that he has been the only vote on you. I realize my phrasing there could have been much better.

[Starbuck]

the only thing that I like that you have done that gives me pause is pointing how lame star's vote is in the middle of our spat. its bad. its really bad.

Why am I not surprised? Still not gonna respond, though, right?

[Starbuck]

Or are you still "distracted by this argument"?

[Starbuck]

Oh jeezus, I spend last night building robotic competition fields and have hours of Extra Life meetings today and come back to more pages. I'll be back.

[Starbuck]

Just looking quickly back here, how ironic is it that mollie is calling Reck out for ignoring me when she's already ignoring me?

[Starbuck]

Davsto you have like thirty pages before that to talk about.

Touche.


I'm working back through a re-read of yesterday, catching up through today, and I'm going to *try* to make heads or tails of the back and forth between mollie & CDB that was SO important.

[Starbuck]

On top of actually having tasks to complete at my fellowship last night, I needed to take a step back because I was letting mollie pull me into her wheel of emotion. It feels like everything that I read of hers is nothing but AtE. Of the little that I read going on between her & CDB (which I need to read more of after this catch up) and then her interactions with myself and others, I just don't feel like this is town play. Before I was even completely caught up with the game, she was already freaking out and jumping all over catboi for saying that even though he disagrees that he believes my play to be genuine. She couldn't even direct questions towards me so that I could further explain my reaction. During my catch up, I even went back to the posts, that she was flipping out about, to re-read them and give further insight, to which I expected some kind of response. I don't find that to be asking all that much. I don't understand this whole big drama BS for what simply should be expected when playing mafia.

In all actuality, I was waiting for her responses because her reaction was going to help me gauge my read on her. For example, Marquis came back to my questions very eloquently and respectfully. I couldn't have asked for a better response. I have no qualms with Marquis. On the opposite side, mollie's flat out refusal, subsequent insults, assumptions, and dancing about show to me that she doesn't seem to care what I think or that she wants to be helpful for our team. Hence, why my vote went to her.

When you play as town, you should answer questions. Yeah, you might get some from folks who may be testing you or that you may deem as scummy, but it doesn't help our town as a whole to completely avoid things when information about both parties can be learned and examined later on in the game.

I am also not a fan of the way that she keeps trying to discredit my play and my input as a clash of playstyles due to my long absence from the site, that I'm only "glancing at the surface," and that I haven't "read her posts." I'm fairly certain that the effort that I put in all day, yesterday, to get caught up and to add my thoughts to the game prove all of that otherwise. Just because I haven't played in a long time, doesn't mean that I forgot HOW to play.



So that's the basis of my case on mollie, and I'll get back to reading through.

[Starbuck]

In response to mollie's #609

cdb said that, not me

He may have said that you were distracted, but you proved it to be true by not acknowledging it.

I don't particularly feel inclined to respond to you until you stop acting like a douche. ignoring/avoidance is the best way to deal with such behaviours I have found, that is why cdb is freaking out about me cos I used to never let this shit go but it is prozack's game and I don't want to shit on it cos prozack is my friend. so mostly I am just ignoring your anklebiting bullshit cos that is basically what it is. your play has been surface, it still is surface and I really don't see it getting any better cos you are completely unaware that there is something wrong.

1. I haven't insulted you once. I may have snarky back at you, but your nastiness is dragging the ENTIRE GAME down. Please stop.

2. How can you even know what my play is if you aren't even reading what I've said?

3. Ignoring does NOTHING but hurt the town and prevent the flow of information.

4. So asking you to respond to well-thought out responses is "ankle-biting bullshit?" I even went back to the post in question to re-read and give further insight, and you seemed to completely ignore it.

5. There is nothing wrong with my play, other than you blatantly ignoring and not responding. I placed a little pressure you and YOU BROKE. That seems to be the case here.

your posts are like nails on chalkboard and make my eyes ears and nose bleed. I probably have blood oozing out of my armpits and nailbeds by now cos I actually try to read your posts and discern the motivation behind them. you are the exact type of player that I kind of despise, you grovel before anything that you perceive bigger than you and try to step on anything that you perceive to be smaller than you.

1. I know we're playing an online forum game, but this immaturity is awful. This type of thing would have been damn close to, if not, a banning a few years back. Is this what I should expect of all the new school players?

2. You've played one day of a Large Game with me and you despise me? How does that make any sense? Are you really letting this GAME become so personal?

3. Where have I groveled and where have I tried to step on anyone? What seems to have happened here is that I put a bit of pressure on you and you couldn't handle it.

you used a lot of words to say, "I don't think it is a playstyle approach clash but I don't understand marquis's playstyle approach!" in 1 of your walls and you don't even see anything wrong with it. like in your world that logic makes sense and I look at it and know that any engagement with you will most likely be fruitless, unenjoyable and not further my understanding of the gamestate in any way until I have a more definitive poe list.

1. If you noticed, Marquis actually responded with eloquence and took the time to explain out his take on things. He didn't crumble from questioning and pressure.

2. I didn't see anything anything wrong with it, but I can see it as a way for scum hide behind and to appear to be contributing.

3. My overall goal was to question and pressure the two of you, and gauge my reads off your reactions (as I've already said). His reaction and your reaction are worlds apart.

4. My question is if this was a concern of yours, why did you not direct a question to me to give further insight? Rather than pop off saying that I didn't read posts or that my play is "surface." The former would lead me to think of you as town, but how you've been just seems to me like you're throwing shade. Who is having a problem with "playstyle differences" now?

5. Again, another assumption "I look it and know that any engagement with you will most likely be fruitless, unenjoyable, and not further my understanding of the gamestate." Well if you chilled out a bit and had a conversation, rather than the tantrums that you've been throwing, JUST MAYBE you wouldn't feel this way.

so if it seems like I am ignoring you it is cos I am. it isn't cos OMG I AM SCUM AND I AM SOOPER SKEERED OF UR AWSUM SCUMHUNTING POWAHZ its cos I think that your scumhunting is either woefully outdated or super scummy and I am content to let things unfold naturally that way i don't have to deal with you that much.

1. Thanks for affirming my vote and making CDB's call out of it to be crap.

2. Also, thanks for affirming that you are going out of your way to withhold information.

[Starbuck]

On MattP's #622, I was really confused as to the pure nastiness that I received by just asking Flameaxe for clarification. I wasn't even trying to argue semantics, as he tried to say. I was just truly confused because in the initial post that I referenced he used the word "inactivity," not ISO. He said that he liked votes on someone that 90% of the players have a null read on due to his lack of contribution other than "GUYS, I CAN'T READ ANYTHING AGAIN." I find that to be questionable. I don't find it to be a reason for a vote, though.

I see the above further explained in #709, and I can see your point.

Additionally, I'm not sure how you can even have a scumread on Davsto when he hasn't given anything to listed as scum or town. At this point, rather than constantly saying that he can't contribute, I wish Davsto would do as SC did and replace out for someone who can commit the time.


See, even though this quote from PZ isn't directed at mollie, he knows the frustration that I'm feeling.

I'm trying to get in your pretty little head and the only way I can do that is through "useless questions." You voted someone, I want the thought process behind it. I'm not going to assume anything because making assumptions leads to bad reads and mistakes, which means yes I want you to actually answer the questions I'm asking. Unless the depth of your play really is "teehee I don't like this post, let's go shopping!" then you should be able to provide me with specifics.

I say star is different because I understand her frustration at having to wait for questions and she's probably disenfranchised by the first part of 609.

Not even just waiting, but being mocked, ignored, and insulted. MS can't have gotten THIS bad.

watching zito go after bins in such a

patronizing vaguely sexist

way makes me wonder about him cos if he cannot see that bins is town by now then I don't even

WHAT? So this gets explained in #707, but if you inherently think that PZ is sexist in anyway, you don't really know him all that well. You know all the snark, sarcasm, and straight up nastiness that you've been throwing around? "Pretty little head" is NOTHING compared to that. In essence, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It's honestly pretty bizarre that Reck has a scumread on PM considering that

he knows her in real life

. Some other people I have considerably lower expectations of.

Obviously, things change after you meet someone IRL, but I don't think applies in mafia. I've played plenty of games on the VA Board and Mafiastache with people that I know IRL. It doesn't change anything when it comes to the game, so the fact that you would try to use this to discredit Reck is quite concerning as I know he is someone who separates knowing someone IRL and playing mafia with them. People are totally different once they sit down behind their screens.

you are not doing jack shit and you have managed to completely ignore star who was repeatedly asking for you earlier.

Uhhh....he didn't ignore me. For proof, check posts #438 and#443.

Also, it wasn't repeatedly. It was once during my 3rd major catch up post (#404), where I noted his absence, and once after (#418).

ISOing isn't hard.


Also, what a horrid case and vote on Reck. Maybe if you concentrated on this game, instead of reading through the 5 billion other games on the site to put together some kind of weak meta, you'd have a better informed vote?


In addendum, AHA! Reck's 717 ftw.

you are not doing jack shit and you have managed to completely ignore star who was repeatedly asking for you earlier.

oh and this part? wrong

take a look at how I've engaged w/ Starbuck AND HOW STARBUCK KNEW EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DOING (aka I was lurking, waiting for Starbuck's catchup posts so I can get a read on her)

we've been over this. time to catch up on the 21st century mollie

Ending at the Bottom of Page 29

[Starbuck]

Ahh, looks like Reck took care of the linking of the posts and I didn't even have to, re: mollie's claim that he's ignoring me. Reck couldn't ignore me, even if he tried. Mofo is stuck with me.

Btw, Happy Anniversary, boo.

if you are town then you can occupy the same space of Supreme Derptitude that 2 others currently occupy.

Can "Supreme Derptitude" be my title? I mean, shit, I need to get something out of putting up with this abuse.

And seriously, where the seven hells is Reck? You've got to have some input at this point, love.

please don't do this.

Don't do what? Call out Reck for his lurking? It did its job, like it was supposed to.

eta: @ prozack - are we not allowed to call pple idiots when we think they being 1?

Idiots is one thing. The nastiness you have been throwing is another.

mollie you seemed to have dropped your SC slot suspicion ever since MattP subbed in. What are your updated thoughts on that slot?

This question was in my big response to mollie during my catch up posts. Hopefully, she responds to you.

Also, pop-tarts>toaster streudals

QFT

[Starbuck]

Holy shit it sure is hostile in here

@ zito

if you say to a certain 6'4" fag that I know "your pretty little head" in a line of srs questioning in a patronizing way I promise to go back to my hero-worship of you

u got it, your hero-worship is v important to me

Mollie, you really used THAT word? I know the Reck probably doesn't care, but seriously?

[Starbuck]

Holy shit it sure is hostile in here

@ zito

if you say to a certain 6'4" fag that I know "your pretty little head" in a line of srs questioning in a patronizing way I promise to go back to my hero-worship of you

u got it, your hero-worship is v important to me

Mollie, you really used THAT word? I know the Reck probably doesn't care, but seriously?

I love fags. it is only an insult if you have a problem with fags.

do you?

Reck knows I love my gays. I'm bi, myself, and just walked with the Jacksonville Coalition for Equality in the Pride Parade two weeks ago, where I was miraculously reunited with one of my good friends, from when I was stationed here, who is now in MtF transition. I will be speaking at our upcoming City Council meetings when we fight, again, for an all-inclusive human rights ordinance. Additionally, I was a main proponent in organizing and executing the first EVER LGBT Pride Month celebration at NAS Jacksonville and in Navy Region Southeast this past June. So what does that tell you?

In any case, that word is inappropriate, no matter how much you say you don't mean it in an insulting way. It's especially inappropriate to be used in the midst of a game.

I'm on mobile, so I'll get to the walls later.

[Starbuck]

Reck knows I love my gays. I'm bi, myself, and just walked with the Jacksonville Coalition for Equality in the Pride Parade two weeks ago, where I was miraculously reunited with one of my good friends, from when I was stationed here, who is now in MtF transition. I will be speaking at our upcoming City Council meetings when we fight, again, for an all-inclusive human rights ordinance. Additionally, I was a main proponent in organizing and executing the first EVER LGBT Pride Month celebration at NAS Jacksonville and in Navy Region Southeast this past June. So what does that tell you?

In any case, that word is inappropriate, no matter how much you say you don't mean it in an insulting way. It's especially inappropriate to be used in the midst of a game.

I'm on mobile, so I'll get to the walls later.

so you are okay with reck calling me a bitch in the midst of a game which last I checked I am not a female dog but it is not okay to call reck a fag which he actually is?

you...really don't want to get into a pissing match with me on lgbt activism. like no really, you DON"T.

You were trying to give the idea that I am homophobic to which I am not, and Reck can attest to that. I, also, gave you three recent reasons as to what I have done for the betterment of LGBT locally and on a regional scale. I could have went on, but I just covered like the last 4 months. I didn't say those things to brag and I'm glad you go out and fight as hard as I do. I don't understand why you would turn it into a way to one-up me when I go out and do what I can in my community, as I'm sure you do, too. That's not the point here.

I'm not mad at all, but I will not sit by and not stand up for myself or watch you make baseless personal attacks. I don't want to get into any match with you. I just want to play this game, enjoy playing, and not be verbally abused or watch others be verbally abused by you.

Do you have something stressful going on outside the game? Because it definitely feels like you do. Whatever it is, I hope it gets better for you, but do us all a favor and play the game WITHOUT this thunderstorm of emotion because, frankly, it's distracting and it's ruining enjoyability.

[Starbuck]

Can we not do this? Please? This dispute is only going to impact the game negatively.

I absolutely agree.

[Starbuck]

Mollie's 830 and 831 are nothing but more negativity and it seems that responding to that is going to be a waste of my time, since she is dismissing everything that I say, and a waste everyone else's time to read it. So I'm going to abstain. I'm keeping my vote where it is as per my case on her, but other than that, until she can start acting like a civil human being, I will refrain from responding.

It really sucks because I do believe that not responding is not cool in a game where responding is needed to incur information, but the fact that she's raining nothing but verbal abuse all over me with no recourse is very saddening. I didn't realize this is considered okay now.

[Starbuck]

Attacking? I asked for a response and was attacked, repeatedly, and given excuse after excuse for nonresponses. So I think we need to take a look at the whole picture before we state that "a group of older players are attacking newer players." Just sayin.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck, I think the big idea behind her frustration with you stems from your first interaction with her regarding SC, where you chose to quote a smaller reason bugging her about SC rather than the big wall. You didn't even acknowledge it, which set this all off.

A lot of players hate not being listened to.

Do I necessarily agree that her big wall to you wasn't a bit over the line? No, I think it was. but I understand her frustration and you constantly pushing her when she doesn't really want to interact with you bothers me.

But she's not wrong when she says that there has been several older players coming after the newer players- Reck coming after me, ckd after marq, and you in particular made a comment about "Is this what to expect of newer joindates" and while I see why you made that comment and I agree that post was over the line, there's still been an overlying theme of that throughout the game and it's driving a wedge through the town.

I think the best course of action is to just avoid each other for a while.

My comment about "Is this what to expect of newer join dates" was in reference to the vitriol spewing from mollie. As someone who seemed to want to show how the new players do things, the turn that she has taken is more than disappointing. It sucks.

I wasn't even the one who brought up new vs old. She started with the whole old vs new playstyles when I was commenting about her and Marquis in my catch up, but I was asking questions and putting pressure in hopes for responses and reactions. Like I said earlier, Marquis handled it with grace. Mollie decided that she needed to personally attack me because she felt that I didn't read what she said and that I'm just touching the surface, but still she refuses to even clarify any of that beginning or to read my response and continue the conversation so that we can feel each other out. She's cut off any and all means of even trying to find common ground, and I've given her chance after chance to do it while dealing with some of the rudest and nastiest play that I have seen to date on this site.

[Starbuck]

In relation to SC, why didn't she ask for clarification or ask me to expound? She didn't.

However, after seeing her complaint, I did go back in #408 to expound upon that and she refuses to acknowledge or even respond.

[Starbuck]

I've been cool, calm, and collective. I haven't gone off yet here. You'll know when I do, but I'm not just going to lay down when I'm being personally insulted for no reason.

I've been playing the game and on the receiving end of mounds of BS because mollie wants to ignore me, insult me, make assumptions (which I've proved wrong), and would rather distract the entire player list than actually answering questions when the whole point of this game in the forum setting is TO PROVIDE INFORMATION. That, in and of itself, is scummy and not helpful to our town WHATSOEVER.

[Starbuck]

For the betterment of this game, because I'm sure it got lost in one of my bigger posts, I really wish Davsto would replace out for someone who will actually contribute.

[Starbuck]

I was trying to read through everything that happened with SC, and I just got completely lost. Could someone give a decent summary of it?

[Starbuck]

my point was he is active on site...in a game he is modding AND others. But why not active here?

The same can probably be said of a majority of the player list right now.

[Starbuck]

Fell behind a bit. Getting ready for a FIRST Tech Challenge robotics meet tomorrow, so best chance for some catch up is tomorrow night.

[Starbuck]

@Mod: You haven't changed the deadline time in vote count posts since the start of the game.

[Starbuck]

Finally at my desktop and working through what I missed.

[Starbuck]

Goodness, I've felt like davsto in these past few days. Apologies for my lack of input and activity. I hope some other folks got some chat during the mean time.

I won't lie. I became a bit disenfranchised. I started reading through yesterday (Sunday). I got to mollie's olive branch and then to this:

star - I thought she was scum at first cos of her angles. we tussled. when I went back and reread my posts to see if I had even voted cdb so I cld see wth myko was talking about I noticed that she tried to pit me against both reck and zito by saying that I was insulting them. reck knows I am not homophobic and zito knows that we can always talk about it post game if it was somehow that important. when she got no traction with either of those it became me trying to 1-up her about activism when I wasn't? I extended an olive branch so we will see what comes of it, it cld just be her personality I don't know.

So it seems there is something that I need to make clear. None of what is stated above has ANYTHING to do with the game. I wasn't trying to make traction with either of those things. I was taken aback by the language used and it hasn't nothing to do with my vote and case on mollie, which she still hasn't responded.

The above seems like the clear opposite of an offered olive branch, so I'm not quite sure what to do about this. However, I wanted to note that I just needed to back off from the game in order to get back into a game state of mind and away from the personal side.

[Starbuck]

In addendum, I'm definitely concerned about the fact that mollie stil hasn't responded to posts that I've made that include nothing but gameplay, but she wants to take every single personal style post and respond to those. I'm not quite sure what she's trying to accomplish here.

[Starbuck]

No, let's move past the personal stuff, which is what I thought was happening with your olive branch. It's pretty damn selfish of both of us to have taken over the game with that crap, and we quite, literally, stalled it out.

I'll go back through and highlight all my gameplay questions, if you promise to answer them.

[Starbuck]

I am very much against a notty wagon and will actively speak against it.

Did you know the sky is blue?

[Starbuck]

First, I said I'd list out my questions for mollie. There are entire posts that warrant responding, but I guess I'll just break it down to these.

4. I want you to tell us why you think/thought SC is scum. What is it about his posts that made you vote for him? What kind of tone did you take from a particular post to give you that vibe? I don't want to see a history of every game you ever played with him as you deflect the question over and over. Scale down on the fluff and get to the point.

1. Why do you feel like I am making excuses for SC? I don't feel like I dismissed your case. I read it, and it was full of fluff and based off your gut, rather than actions within THIS game.

You did give reasoning for unvoting MattP when he replaced in (giving him time to catch up, etc), how do you feel about him now?

[Starbuck]

I'm feel pretty horrid about my lack of contribution over the past few days. I did need to step away to give my brain a break from the nastiness, but also have had one thing after another pile up for Extra Life (our local marathon is in just over two weeks and last push to recruit more gamers is ongoing until then), as well as lots popping up for my fellowship. Once I get through these next three weeks, I'll be golden. It's just every time that I've sat down to actually catch up with the game, I end up being pulled to projects and work email. I hate excuses as much as the next person, but it's just been hard to sit down and read through all the catch up, read through SC/MattP like I've wanted to, and garner some insight on the bunch of nulls that I have sitting about. It's like my motivation and excitement to be back in a large game on MS was nullified and I can't really shake it.


That said....starting on Page 36...


I don't really get how CKD can pit Davsto as scum for his lack of contribution. He could easily be town or scum who is just having a hard time keeping up. I can't blame him, given how I've been over the past few days, but I don't see it as scummy actions on Day 1. I just see it as lazy. Not knowing him well enough, he may just coast on Day 1 and be more of a contributor on Day 2. I just don't know, but the lack of participation isn't helpful at all. Additionally, in #891[/quote], CKD lists out everyone who agrees (Flame, Spiff, Zito, and Nexus). I'd be very wary of any of those who join in on such a wagon.

Another thing on this page is a CKD vote on Marquis that I don't really understand.

Marq disappears (in this game) when I need him to answer questions. Comes back to address stuff, but ignores my questions.

As someone who has also dealt with this kinda thing within this game, I can empathize with your frustrations. I don't really think that warrants a vote on him. He's been pretty reponsive, at least with me.

All of that said, I don't feel that CKD is scummy for the above because I feel that I could have easily made the same arguments.


In post 918, Marquis"]so i don't waste the post i'm kind of interested in seeing starbuck's strongest townreads.[/quote]
In all honesty, most of my reads right now are null. I mean, I pretty much said above that I feel that CKD is town because I could picture myself making those same arguments.

As for a full on list, I guarantee it would be like 90% null. Just because my main interactions, so far, have been with you, mollie, and notsci. I don't even know how to look at notsci with all the whiteknighting of mollie. I can't tell if it's just trying to chill her out or if it's part of scoring some town points. I'm really not sure.

I also need to do some research back on SC/MattP because I still don't understand all the scum reads on that slot when I read the same stuff and didn't get that feeling.



Ahhh, there we go. Some substance from Davsto. About time.

And scot.

When half the reasoning to vote him is to pressure him into doing stuff, its kind of super shitty. MattP is still the best lynch on the table.

so you are not liking scotty? this is news.

what don't you like about him?

It really isn't. It's too early for me to get a solid read on him and I'd rather not act on a general uncertainty?

^^ This right, here, makes me trust Flame.

That's one null read eliminated.


And there goes CKD with a vote on Davsto in #1016. It seems like just because? Le sigh.


That's some substance that I've wanted to see in Davsto's #1049! Welcome to the game.


Ending at the Bottom of 42

[Starbuck]

I fucked my code in there. Blah.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of Page 43....

@nottty
why do you need to ask mollie who to wagon? Why can't you take a stance on your own?

OMG THIS. QFT.

Davstro is also actively avoiding contributing to this game. Until his post on mollie, which is just awful. Are we really going to let him get away with calling mollie's post fluff, when he has consistently done the exact same thing? (I dissagree that mollies read list is fluff)

If you actually read through that big post, he asks her a number of questions which require her response. Given my read of her and having to page through quite of fluff to get to real content, I don't feel he's wrong in that. However, coming from him, it looks very hypocritical.

But that's the thing. My readslist wasn't meant to give off the impression of being a deep readslist, it was shallow and intended that way.

Mollie's gives off an air of trying to look like she's doing loads, but actually there's very little there.

I also agree with this.

And all of notscience's posts have addressed mollie and only mollie and he is making no effort to engage anyone else.

It's starting to get really annoying actually.

Another QFT. The Follow the Leader game is getting old.


Why does mollie voting davsto in #1065 not surprise me? Instead of responding to his questions, she votes for him after accusing him of the same thing that she accused me of - cherry picking. Is this the default accusation for everyone who disagrees? I'm just curious.


And there goes AJ replacing out. I was just going to ask for a summary of him, too.


Ooooh! There goes a notscience wagon. I could behind that. The whole needing to speak for mollie thing has really irked me.

ns wagon is too random for me.

How come?

I think you are scum myko.

Everyone who votes or questions or suspects you is scum? That's not really how it works.

Yeah the only justification I see in mollie votes have been "this seems like mollie scum" or something of that nature which is obviously not a good reason and I just disagree with it in general.

@ckd true. I still condone the wagon.

the 3 votes are voteparked on me from pple who have barely posted since, all 3 players promised that they wld post more yet have been doing nothing but prod dodges.

^ this is what myko is sheeping.

You're not wrong here, at least on the prod dodges, but I think my case is quite legitimate compared to the gut reads. I don't know. Now that there is less hostility and more response, maybe I'll get a better view of you.

yeah I know he has only been talking to me, but that is not unusual for him.

In a Large Game, that's kind of a big deal that he's not interacting with anyone else.

I don't think that is what you were doing, I think you thought that i was insulting your friends and it pissed you off.

Yep, that's exactly how I felt.


Ending Bottom of Page 46

[Starbuck]

Starting top of Page 47....

Hey Starbuck what do you think of MattP? I don't think you've weighed in on that slot recently.

Your response to my question about that slot further back is on my list of things to read over. I still don't know how I feel about it. I know that when I initially read it that nothing really stuck out to me, as much as it did to the rest of you guys. Given that it seems to be a spread of people (those I can picture being scum and those that I don't), I want to look at it closer.


To mollie on #1207, you just copied and pasted your answers, which I had previously responded to, for the first two questions. My issue with both of these is that you rely on meta, but still refuse to tell us what he did in THIS game that makes you suspect him as scum. What is the tell that we aren't seeing? All I've seen, in regards to your case on the SC/MattP slot is gut. Reasons like "I am so not feeling it" and "I think he is scum for reasons that might be outside your experience' don't really cut it here.

On Matt, I totally agree that we haven't seen enough of him.

Half of mollie's wagon are players that are dangerously close to prod range and even then have contributed almost nothing since they voted for her.

This is not something that is ok.

I 100% agree. I hope, at least in the realm of me vs mollie, it is understand my lack/needing to walk away/etc.


Scot is spot on in #1229.

speaking of reck. i've been seeing him responding to things and defending himself from mollie but it's like. reading his ISO i get no sense of his actual scumhunting thought process, or a sense that he's actually trying to work things out. i see a reads list, but no buildup to that besides various thrown out "i agree with"s, blank reads with no followup, and bland mafia theory platitudes that any scum could point out

I'm not sure how it has been farther on from this, but I noted the lack of Reck and called him out several times for it after my initial catch up. That only seemed to get mollie to use it negatively and mykonian to tell me that it was wrong to do it.

Im not at all fine with a myk wagon...I also dont like the people parking their votes on mollie atm, with the exception of starbuck, though I wish she would try to look at other people as well. Notty, Matt, AJ, Davstro are all good lynches today.

I'm trying to break the tunnel. I promise!

14. Starbuck - one burst of activity and then nada, if you've done ANYTHING else on the site this is guaranteed scumslot

I'm not sure how this can even be considered given the rampant jump in pages in this game. Technically, it wasn't one burst. I was coming back to check on things and we were in that stallout phase. I went to my robotics competition on Sat and came back to a ton of pages.

It's just my way to be completely thorough when I catch up, and if I don't have the concentration for it, I just don't. I note things in my big catch up posts more for myself than the rest of the people in the game, but I share all my thoughts because I feel the flow of information or even where my mind set is at is helpful to the rest of the town.

Maybe I'm a sucker, but mollie's emotional crap doesn't look fake to me and I think some people might be trying to wind her up in the hope she gets herself lynched.

mollie literally get emotional in every game she has ever played this is pretty null (and also giving into ate)

Well, this is good information to know. I couldn't really tell if it was all an act or if I just need to take it all with a block of salt.


And a slew of posts from Reck.............oh man, can it be true? TownReck what? FYI, we need StarKiss hydra fun in the near future.

you guys are so bad at quotes

QFT

mattp/mykonian/davsto/marquis

lynch here today, thx

Tell me why (ain't nothin but a heartache). You're welcome for the earworm.

man I miss spyrex

That's a name I haven't heard in a long time.


Ending at the Bottom of Page 57

[Starbuck]

Starting top of Page 58....

If you jump on someone for using "the town", "our town," "the rest of the town," and whatever other way to refer to the collective of players who's alliance could be aligned with someone's own, it will ping in my radar. Just a heads up. That's a really shitty play, imho.

TLDR OF ME VS MOLLIE IF YOU WANT TO SKIP THE BACK & FORTH

Mollie responded to a quote where Espe and I were bantering about sitechat by telling a story about how she used to sleep on my couch, then told Espe to draw his own conclusions. All responses requesting for further elaboration have been met by mollie playing dumb -or- purposefully refusing to answer questions.

The end!

Dude, welcome to my world.

LMAO you expect me to answer your questions after you've dragged your feet and stomped and thrown a tantrum by refusing to answer mine?

It's like I've experienced this once before.....

Is anyone else starting to think that Reck is getting into endless back and forths with mollie so he can appear to be relevant when he's just harping on and on about the same thing?

Not really, as someone who was stuck in one with her prior, I can totally empathize. It's really tough to bring gameplay to the table when it's nothing but emotion and things that don't even matter to the game.

I guess the same could be said about mollie but I see her doing more than just bickering.

How so?


ALL CAUGHT UP..........for now.

[Starbuck]

why was star so far behind when over the weekend she made blurbs so surely she had computer access.

and yet now she is catching up?

IDGI

I addressed that at the top of this post.

[Starbuck]

Hey, at least I deliver unlike most people who say they will.

[Starbuck]

Hey, at least I deliver unlike most people who say they will.

your questions were answered, which is what I thought.

you can make up shit if you want, I guess.

I really wasn't referring to you with that comment, but take it as you will.

[Starbuck]

And because I wanted to know, here's what I just tallied for a current vote count.... (if I got anyone's vote wrong, I do apologize)

Votecount 1.19 -
MattP - 5 - Marquis, catboi, spiffeh, Bins, scot
mykonian - 5 - mollie, Reck, Espy, notscience, ckd
notscience - 4 - Nexus, Zito, Davsto, Flameaxe
Pirate Mollie - 3 - CDB, Starbuck, mykonian
Espy - 2 - MattP, Myko


With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

[Starbuck]

Oops, I already see I didn't remove myko off Espy.

[Starbuck]

As much as I like my mollie vote, I'm going to have to move it in order to help us get some kind of information out of this god forsaken day. My only holdback on mykonian, even though I feel he is vote worthy is mollie and notscience's votes on him. Those, alone, make me pause.

As for MattP, most everyone who I feel positively about is on his wagon. I've tried to go back through and I read the case that Spiffeh linked when I asked about SC. I just still didn't get that scumdar ping from SC that everyone else did. With MattP, I'm concerned about his disappearances, his lack of catch up, and generally just being absent. The same could be said about myself, but whether or not it takes me a few days to get through to catch up, I'm a woman of my word.

A notscience lynch wouldn't be a bad thing either. I'm torn because I think the connections that these three players have made throughout today, as well as their input, could be analyzed fairly well on Day 2. I don't want us to end in a no lynch because that garners us no information.

[Starbuck]

I didn't want mollie to replace out, just to chill out. Another replacement to this game is just going to slow things down.

[Starbuck]

Because his entire day has been a never ending struggle to look useful while doing next to nothing

QFT

[Starbuck]

Can we count the number of times that mollie has used the word "vig"? Why are you trying to set up plans for the night? That's pretty sketch.

[Starbuck]

I have had plenty to say. My ISO concentrates on more than just you.

[Starbuck]

Do you know that we haven't heard from MattP since Monday? Has he been prodded at all?

mollie come back to the MattP wagon I think he is trying to lurk his way out of being a lynch possibility.

I'm having trouble remaining engaged. If you have questions for me, please ask.

Also....seeing this.....

Matt feels underwhelming here in comparison to how he felt in Disney.

I've been skimming and I intend to be more substantive tomorrow and just generally more as the game slows down, but I'm in medical school now and I'm never going to be available to provide a level of content similar to my older play.

Makes me wonder why he replaced in at all.

I was reading through his ISO yesterday, and while he's been clearly absent. He has contributed a case, and some decent insight, imho. Within his ISO, and something that I noted within my own posts, he mentions how aggressive Flameaxe was being when I simply asked a question towards him, amongst other instances. I don't disagree with him. He has some really good points about Flameaxe that should be considered.

Before he left he switched his vote to AJ, when it was AJ vs Davsto for votes. Just prior, he says...

I would vote Aj over Davsto. I think Davsto's narrative for his disinterest in the game is genuine, whereas Aj is actively avoiding contribution to most aspects of the games but providing disingenuous and over-defensive reasoning for doing so.

His views, at least on Davsto, basically align with my own. AJ is someone I need to read through, but that slot is in the midst of replacement as well, right?


In any case, I'm not impressed with this wagon and I think the BroChat Alliance should seriously consider someone else.

[Starbuck]

If you just read my posts when I caught up, you can ISO just as easily.

[Starbuck]

And, fyi, I have been doing things. Just because you're not paying attention doesn't mean that I'm not doing things.

[Starbuck]

yeah most of it is about mollie. and how much you dislike me.

True, but before you attack others for what's in their ISOs, maybe you should look at your own. You know because people you live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Also, blatant lies are blatant lies. I'm sure that you're a lovely person. I just dislike your gameplay and how you're treating people within this game. I can separate that from who you might be on the other side of the monitor.

[Starbuck]

And, fyi, I have been doing things. Just because you're not paying attention doesn't mean that I'm not doing things.

you are not doing shit unless it is in a scum pt

Well, you would know. How are things going over there?

[Starbuck]

I am very much against a notty wagon and will actively speak against it.

Did you know the sky is blue?

^ posts like these are nothing except to try to shame me and make me feel bad about myself?

cos I was defending a town read?

also why are you offering up matty but not voting him?

you are so feeding dat shit

What? I was commenting on the fact that I already knew that you wouldn't stand for a notscience wagon. It's damn obvious, just like the sky is blue.

And I'm not offering up MattP or feeding anything. Did you not read that entire post? Reading comprehension is totally ftw.

[Starbuck]

I'm happy with my vote still. This whole alluding that I'm in the scum PT, still not reading my posts thoroughly, and trying to make me look bad because of it, hasn't sat well with me. It's part of why I haven't moved my vote. I don't feel that to be a very town action. Other people that I semi-trust see you as town, and I'm okay to trust their reads for now, but man, you've gotta help yourself at some point.

I haven't acted at all superior to you. I've been frustrated and annoyed by how obtuse you have been, how much you've tried to twist my words around, and the fact that you STILL aren't reading through my posts. Was the olive branch just for show? Or what? Maybe instead of coming at me with this nastiness and hostility, you could have conversation. For example, if you read through that one on MattP, you wouldn't have made the accusation that you did a few posts up.

Right now, when you're not distracting me from doing so, I'm trying to look through the ISOs and cases against those top 3 wagons. I surely don't want to end up with a no lynch today because that garners us no information, but I won't be voting for someone all willy nilly just to make sure that we have one.

[Starbuck]

It isn't willy nilly. That's why I haven't moved it yet.

Who is Cephrir? And why is this comparable?

I don't feel the MattP wagon has a strong case, other than his absence. I didn't feel the same scumminess that you all felt about SC, and even read through Spiffeh's superb case. I could end up being completely wrong on that, and then we'll waste a day lynching my lowly VT self because you're gonna go balls to the wall on a case of how I was reluctant to lynch the slot if it flips scum. I can already see how tomorrow will play out if I don't vote Matt and he flips scum, but if I'm right and he flips town, there's a number of people on that lynch that we can look at.

[Starbuck]

I've always been one for psychological tells and Starbuck here has the knows more/is better attitude that generally goes with informed minority. And the sarcasm is p bad too. Liking mollie more from the exchange. Potentially theater but not going to speculate on that for the moment. Star goes in to null scum pile.

@Star: What part of talking about mollie's talk of a vig is sitting badly with you. It's a role that mollie likes and with the chit chat about it allows her to have a say in how any theoretical vig plays in the night. It impacts night play when otherwise she might not be able to and there is no scum motivation I can see for talking about it. It can even put scum in weird positions where by weird calls makes them keen to not double shoot on someone or other scenarios. The focus from you on it much more offputting.

Psychological tells? Is that a real thing now? I'm not quite sure how I have a "knows more/is better" attitude. I know just as much as Jon Snow knows.

I have been sarcastic, that is true. However, given the amount of pure BS that I've had to deal with from mollie in just this one day, that truly has nothing to do with gameplay, you might have to take it all with a grain of salt, too.


It's not sitting bad with me. I just find it to be odd to be constantly asking to be vigged or nk'd. If she's town, it's essentially playing against her win condition and instead of having some actual conversation, there's a ton of posts of hers asking to be killed. It just doesn't make sense.

[Starbuck]

As for my weekend, I do have things outside of mafia to attend to and when I came back, I just wasn't feeling the catch up game. Needless to say, I did it, though, unlike MattP or Davsto or others who promised to because I know putting my opinions and thoughts out there is most important, especially when I flip town, so that others can go back and read.

[Starbuck]

No, I wasn't. It's obvious that you aren't going to believe me either way, so this is just semantics at this point. People do have lives outside of mafia. I mean, shit, I had one for 2 1/2 years outside of this site before I got the inkling to play mafia like 2 weeks ago (due to the lack of games being offered with my View Askew group) and came back.

I'm sorry that I wasn't as timely with my posts as I should have been, but I clearly and concisely explained why it took me a bit longer. I do my catch ups in my old school way, where I keep a Notepad document open and add my thoughts to it, as I read through. Then I copy and paste that over, fix whatever coding issues that I may have fucked up, and post. That's how I do my catch ups. So sometimes I don't have the time to sit down and keep pushing through a catch up, or if I'm like 20+ pages behind (like I was over the weekend), I wait until I can get a little further through before posting a large catch up post. It's just how I do it.

There's no big scheme like you are playing out. I wasn't waiting for anything other than my lack of concentration, and just utter lack of enthusiasm after dealing with the drama from earlier in this day, to subside.

[Starbuck]

Now, if you two are done, can I go back to reading through on mykonian?

[Starbuck]

No, I wasn't. It's obvious that you aren't going to believe me either way, so this is just semantics at this point

. People do have lives outside of mafia. I mean, shit, I had one for 2 1/2 years outside of this site before I got the inkling to play mafia like 2 weeks ago (due to the lack of games being offered with my View Askew group) and came back.

I'm sorry that I wasn't as timely with my posts as I should have been, but I clearly and concisely explained why it took me a bit longer. I do my catch ups in my old school way, where I keep a Notepad document open and add my thoughts to it, as I read through. Then I copy and paste that over, fix whatever coding issues that I may have fucked up, and post. That's how I do my catch ups. So sometimes I don't have the time to sit down and keep pushing through a catch up, or if I'm like 20+ pages behind (like I was over the weekend), I wait until I can get a little further through before posting a large catch up post. It's just how I do it.

There's no big scheme like you are playing out. I wasn't waiting for anything other than my lack of concentration, and just utter lack of enthusiasm after dealing with the drama from earlier in this day, to subside.

it isn't semantics when you were online taking potshots at me. you were incredibly timely with those.

did you think I wldn't notice?

You mean, during the same time where I was checking in and posted a number of posts in a row because I noticed something when I was reading through and wanted to address that separately from gameplay?

TIMESTAMP: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:55 am

Goodness, I've felt like davsto in these past few days. Apologies for my lack of input and activity. I hope some other folks got some chat during the mean time.

I won't lie. I became a bit disenfranchised. I started reading through yesterday (Sunday). I got to mollie's olive branch and then to this:

star - I thought she was scum at first cos of her angles. we tussled. when I went back and reread my posts to see if I had even voted cdb so I cld see wth myko was talking about I noticed that she tried to pit me against both reck and zito by saying that I was insulting them. reck knows I am not homophobic and zito knows that we can always talk about it post game if it was somehow that important. when she got no traction with either of those it became me trying to 1-up her about activism when I wasn't? I extended an olive branch so we will see what comes of it, it cld just be her personality I don't know.

So it seems there is something that I need to make clear. None of what is stated above has ANYTHING to do with the game. I wasn't trying to make traction with either of those things. I was taken aback by the language used and it hasn't nothing to do with my vote and case on mollie, which she still hasn't responded.

The above seems like the clear opposite of an offered olive branch, so I'm not quite sure what to do about this. However, I wanted to note that I just needed to back off from the game in order to get back into a game state of mind and away from the personal side.

TIMESTAMP: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:59 am

In addendum, I'm definitely concerned about the fact that mollie stil hasn't responded to posts that I've made that include nothing but gameplay, but she wants to take every single personal style post and respond to those. I'm not quite sure what she's trying to accomplish here.

TIMESTAMP: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:17 pm

No, let's move past the personal stuff, which is what I thought was happening with your olive branch. It's pretty damn selfish of both of us to have taken over the game with that crap, and we quite, literally, stalled it out.

I'll go back through and highlight all my gameplay questions, if you promise to answer them.

TIMESTAMP: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:45 pm

I am very much against a notty wagon and will actively speak against it.

Did you know the sky is blue?

I'm not sure how all of those are pot shots, or that is how that is me coming in and just potshotting you when my last post prior to that was me hoping to catch up on Sunday and the two after are listing my questions in which we discussed in the above and then the opening of my catch up post.

[Starbuck]

A joke is a joke is a joke, but it isn't a pot shot. Nor is it potshots plural.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck what are you trying to accomplish w/ this back and forth (I know it's two-sided but I'm asking you)?

I'm having some accusations thrown my way to which I am explaining my side. Espy's jump into it is pretty odd, especially this psychological tell thing. Up until this thing about potshots, though, I did feel it was important to respond as per gameplay and information for everyone else.

[Starbuck]

So wait, the fact that I had priorities outside of the game, but still managed to come back and contribute before the end of the day and give detailed posts that contain my opinions on what I've seen and how I feel stand for nothing? But yet, there's plenty of folks who aren't making an effort and just sliding by? How does that make sense? I signed up for a game and I made a commitment to play. Here I am, doing that. I don't really understand this angle.

Or are you just attacking me for not catching up when you thought I should have when I do have responsibilities and priorities, including spending some time with my husband on Sunday because he works out of town all week and the weekends are the only time that I see him? Not trying to bring any AtE into this situation, I don't want pity, but this line of attack is beyond ridiculous.

[Starbuck]

Mykonian! What say you?

Can you expound upon your reads? What are your current thoughts on the game state?

[Starbuck]

K I'm gonna keep my vote then sry

why are you sorry, if you think he is scum then.......

This.

[Starbuck]

I dont like this lynch. i am sure if he flips scum, I will be eating these words. but it just looks bad.

I'm feeling the same on that.

[Starbuck]

As for Mykonian....

- Read the first 10 pages/250 posts with no reads either than a possible scum read on notscience

- Gets a townread on Page 20, but doesn't say who it is

- Votes Flameaxe

- Doesn't like mollie's go at CDB, thinks Davsto is fine

- Supports an AJ over Davsto in AJ vs Davsto

- Feels Nexus is town

- Some kinda substance in #1082. He was for AJ, said he could vote mollie, has no interest in davsto, and could go either way on Matt. He votes mollie.

- Easily one of the only people who feels about mollie as I do

- notscience wagon is too random?

- His case on mollie in #1123 is solid. He seems to be dealing with the same frustration that I am, basically, when you address mollie, you don't get some kind of conversation. You get told that your posts suck, but not why they suck or even asked questions to explain your position further. You get a sheer amount of abrasiveness for daring to ask to her to expound, or you get a lot of beating around the bush with no real substance.

- I'm a bit concerned about his response to catboi in #1211, where he disagrees with catboi about it being super weird that folks are bearing down on davsto for inactivity, but not Matt. With that, he votes for AJ.

- He starts the game with a possible scum read on notscience, but then it turns into some straight up defense of notscience in #1215. It seems kinda far fetched to me, like maybe defending someone he knows to be town to get town cred.

Sadly I'm not all that long in this game

and I decidedly don't have a feel for it but if I had to pick now off the available choices (which is kind of nice bc I really don't know a thing about most of you) I'd go with mollie or AJ. Not that interested in "pressure" or "information" votes.

The bolded makes me wonder on mykonian.

- It seems the farther I read through, the more that I see that he is trying to bring something to the table.

- And he swaps his vote back to mollie

- Sees Marquis as town


So my summary of Mykonian:

I'm curious about what made him this notscience was possible scum when he first read through, and what brought him to defend notscience. I can see both sides of the argument on notscience, and given that, notscience is kind of just remaining null for me. What did it for you, myk?

I'm glad to see that he's not willing to chalk up mollie to town just based on emotion. I'm starting to view her over-the-top and AtE reactions as a way to distract, and screw with folks. I don't know if she's just being anti-town in a town slot, or coming from a scum slot. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one this boat.

I'm glad to see some substance and actual cases, but I'd like to see a bit more of your reasoning/case on AJ/now Espy.

All in all, compared to the likes of davsto, who really seems to be floating along, I dig mykonian. Despite not posting as much as we would like to see him post, he has some really good points and insight. I am not willing to vote for him today.

[Starbuck]

not as if mollie/you is bringing anything new. Pages get added, information gets lost. You could both hide easily in that and you probably want to do that. It's an act either way. The only interesting mollie interaction was with someone who didn't push back. Then there's no "fight" and the whole interaction becomes something else. This was the case with cdb, I feel.

Oh, I know. I need to stop falling into her trap. I just thought she actually was going to discuss actual game play and not leap on something so ridiculous like when I posted my catch up posts.

I

[Starbuck]

Someone that I've been wanting to read over is Espy, I can go back and look at AJ if anyone is curious about that, but since Espy filled the slot, I'd rather focus on his actions.

- Gets in and automatically asks for mollie to fill him in

- Names Zito as town, notscience as prob town, and votes for MattP based off of Zito's opinion

He, then, posts this:

Ok so feel free to call me dumb here, but why is mattp seeming to be everyone's go to right now. Like I haven't read so idk the case but given the way everyone is posing it seems kinda easy, you feel me?

As he is voting........for MattP.


- Votes Myko for no reason. Realizes that he is a replacement, and states again that he isn't reading.

- Says he'll ride the game based on gut until it slows down, which means following folks who he has town reads on is going to be it.

- His take on mollie is null town and Reck is town pool proper.

- Tries to placate mollie from the reck vs her back and forth.

- Jumps at me about psychological tells during the recent back and forth between mollie and I. Seems to think that I have a "knows more/is better" attitude that goes with the informed minority. Puts me in the null scum pile based on this ridiculousness.

- Likes Bins' tone (which reminds me that I need to read over her, too), but notscience's trust in people who read them favorably is sitting bad with Espy, re: buddying. I can agree with that to a point.

- Likes working with mollie, even if mollie isn't a town read?

- Involved post in response to me responding about the psychological tells. As someone who hasn't played with me before, I find it very difficult to see how psychological tells play into it.

Thinks I asked him to discount something because I asked him to. Not sure what that was.

I don't really get how being annoying by mollie asking to be nk'd/vigged turned into a need to for Espy to explain mollie's stance. That's the second person now, after CDB (during his back and forth with her), needing to explain her actions but not letting her explain them herself.


Espy is over into my scummy pile.

[Starbuck]

Oh wtf.

[Starbuck]

Onto Bins....

1) i don't know why you would call me out of the lurkers when i'm the one SAYING I'M READING

That seems to be a trend in this game.

- Thinks notscience and Marquis are town

- Votes SC with no reasoning, and is asked by Zito for reasoning

- She says that she has bad feelings, all his posts have pinged her, likes his wagon, and just waiting to see a bad vote on it.

- Zito pushes for her to expound given that she said "ALL" SC's posts pinged her

- She returns with "first page because its awkward" No further explanation.

- Votes Flameaxe, but states mollie is town after this sentimental go between. States that mollie wouldn't say something like that if she was scum, and that she is reaching out without scum motivation.

- Some, kinda, explanation on SC, but nothing concrete. Likes Matt's posts and his reasoning on Flameaxe.

- Zito asks about her sheeping of MattP's points on Flameaxe, and seems to get a bit defensive when Zito asks her to put some of her own thought into it. Fires back at Zito for "wasting both of our time" and accusing him of wanting to see her reasoning so that he can sheep her. The entire below post is a severe overreaction to a simple question....

1) I did. I thought his posts were awkward and he seemed to struggle to naturally enter the conversation. This can be seen best in the first few pages. The vote was for no more than just that reason. That's it. I can't make a quote wall of examples because I don't have any. He bugged me, I wanted to vote him to pressure him to talk more, he replaced out, I was sad, the end. But I like MattP's recent post.
2) Continuing on with that, I liked his BBM reasoning. And I really did not like BBM's response.

Nominate Bins for

amorphous reasoning

Specifically, which parts of MattP's BBM reasoning did you like. Specifically, what response from BBM did you not like?

Seriously? Do you really need me to be more specific? Like, I liked your questioning at first, but you're getting ridiculous.

I LIKED ALL OF HIS POINTS, if I didn't, I would have pointed them out. If I wanted more, I would have added more.
BBM HAD ONE — just one! — response. Which response didn't I like...? Oh, wow! That one!

You're wasting both of our time. Are you trying to see why I'm voting him, because you want to agree/disagree? Because you're town and you wanna see if Matt's points were understandable and agreeable to you as well?
Or are you asking me so many useless questions just to get a reaction out of me? To get me to trip up? To get me to get stuck? So you can get a read on me?
Because I'm not that complex. I see something I don't like. I vote it.

- Bins reaction to Zito above and in 638 continue to feel overdefensive. I can see where Zito would ask those questions to get Bins' take on the situation and not just her sheeping of Matt. She tries to turn it around to make Zito look scummy by questioning how productive that he's been, saying he hasn't gotten anywhere, and making a statement that if he focuses on her that he'll let scum slip by. Hmmm. This doesn't seem to be too town from my perspective.

- She, then, states that she doesn't know why Zito is asking her questions. That's kind of the point of mafia as a whole to garner information by asking questions.

- Bins hates Day 1.

- Not sure if she can write notscience off as town as per Post 752. Thinks AJ is town-y.

- On similar page with notscience re: Reck is town

- And come to think of it, mollie was calling out for Bins quite a bit, but jumped on me when I called out for Reck. Interesting.

- Feels CKD is town, but wants to be rid of him.

- Votes Davsto based on Nexus' points, again another vote with no opinion of her own, and does it to add pressure

- Thinks scum are trying to lynch people that are town. Well, I should hope they are playing in alignment with their win condition.

- Agrees with Marquis that CKD is not as scum as she thought

- Votes again for MattP

- Wouldn't bet the game on notscience or Marquis being town, even though she is townreading them. Wishes to work with their reads and bounce stuff off of them, but not the rest of the player list.


At the end of today, Bins is pretty scummy in my eyes.

[Starbuck]

Given that Matt hammered himself, and my niece is begging me to go to the Museum of Science and History, I'm going to stop my ISO reading for now.

[Starbuck]

for the record, i've been reading spiffeh's posts that've been popping up as i've been continuously saying that i need to read spiffeh (lol) and i'm maybe... 10% into him being town now? definitely not on the scum side of the spectrum atm, at least. nothing i'd bet on at all tho, and i still do want to reread his old stuff in context again

i've also just noticed starbuck keeps making post after post (like at least 5 of them on me by now) about how things i'm doing look "forced" or "concerning" or how they "just don't sit right with me" yet hasn't even voted me yet. not sure how to feel about that.

gnight for real now. vv

BOOM

also star and I are lovers now! I was really hoping to eat a vig kill.

the next time I mention a vig 20 million times can you plz take me out.

also I changed my mind 4 times on who to loverize. in 1 of the last pm's I sent prozack I asked if I cld be polyamorous and loverize as many pple as I wanted. I had to settle on star cos prozack isn't into that sort of thing.

anyway I settled onto her for the lulz and now she has to come up with reasons for wanting me around which is even lulzier.

(((star)))

welcome back star

mollie is loveriser. She was baiting a vig kill to take Starbuck down with her.

This is action is akin to when I was recruited in that cult game (you old schoolers know the one) and part of the reason why I stepped away from MS in the first place. I mean, really?

[Starbuck]

What is the point of a.) making someone a lover then b.) telling us about it. What is fucking town about any of that?

That's what I was wondering, too. I was out all day and just got back to see the game was back on and the automatic announcement from mollie. I mean, what was even the point of doing it if she's gonna autoclaim right away?

[Starbuck]

Mollie. What was the point of your notty vote earlier?

Mollie. Answer this in your next post. And answer CKD's question as well. This is getting ridiculous.

Mollie. Please.

Davstro. Who do you think is scum?

You're mean zito

Starbuck, AJspeonage, Zito, mykonian.

Explanations now.

[Starbuck]

I'm totally for an Espy lynch based on my 1729.

Vote: Espy

I'm glad we got Matt, but if we had more time at the end of the day, I would have been wholeheartedly pushing for this.

[Starbuck]

Also notice, that Matt hammers himself IMMEDIATELY after my Espy post, like he wants to kill conversation.

[Starbuck]

True.

I guess D1 I was super sick of getting questioned or laughed @ every move I made.
I'm not confident D1 to begin with, so that didn't help.

If it makes sense, it's sort of bad of me to say this, but because I wasn't confident in my reads I didn't feel right to go "GUYS VOTE SC NOW NOW NOW I KNOW IM RIGHT EXAMPLE A B C WHY HE IS SCUM YA!" Same with Flame and Davsto. I didn't have evidence D1. Didn't really want people to sheep me if they didn't get the same vibes I did anyways.

^^ I'm not really buying this because while you didn't want people to sheep you, you seemed to sheep everyone else. Folks, take a look at my 1754.

You spent a quantity of your time arguing with Zito rather than just answering his question about why you voted SC. It's paramount, especially on Day 1 to lay out a case just in that manner which you said above. It's okay to not be confident in your reads, but that doesn't absolve you from your refusal to add to the conversation. None of us that are town are certain of anything but our own Role PMs. You wasted a ton of time arguing rather than saying, "I think he is scummy because of this, this and this. I'm not confident that he is scum, but this is my feeling on him." That's all that's needed and you refused to do that. You were vague, you argued when folks pressured you to expound on what you felt was "awkward", and you did the exact thing that you didn't want others to do with you - sheeping.

[Starbuck]

Right?

[Starbuck]

dw, if Espe flips scum we'll turbolynch Mollie no problem

her end of day shenanigans were a hoot

While I'd love to support that, she loverized me to her.

[Starbuck]

dw, if Espe flips scum we'll turbolynch Mollie no problem

her end of day shenanigans were a hoot

While I'd love to support that, she loverized me to her.

Ok so bearing in mind that in this scenario there are already two scum dead. You are against the lynch of someone who I will admit has weird relationals to someone who in the scenario has flipped scum, because you would die too?

Because your maths there is plain wrong and survivalist.

Because I'm town (which y'all won't see until I flip) and to me, right now, it seems she did this out of personal vendetta because we don't get along and not for any strategy, which is really shitty. I'm not responding to anything of hers because it doesn't matter anymore. If she wanted to lose my respect and turn my bitch mode on, she did. Starbuck is not impressed.

And yes, I was opposed to a MattP lynch but when you're town with no other info, you, sometimes, get it wrong. I knew you were going to come back to this shit. I expected to be strung up by this point due to that. I just really didn't feel it on that lynch, so I didn't vote for it.

[Starbuck]

I just woke up and I'm trying to work through that big response that you left above with no quotations or way to make it easier. You know, before you start saying that I'm avoiding you.

[Starbuck]

Oh yeah, and it is definitely a way to continue to make both her and I a fucking distraction to this game.

[Starbuck]

Oh no, I got the notice. I stated it earlier.

[Starbuck]

Oh no, I got the notice. I stated it earlier.

ok missed it sorry

No worries.

[Starbuck]

No such thing has happened. You haven't even attempted to answer his questions. You still haven't answered my question regarding your quick vote, unvote on notty. And now you aren't even willing to give zito a simple yes/no answer (the answer to his question is also not in your first post of the day). It's a simple question, and I'm not sure why you are making a big deal out of it. Just answer it.

This is what started me vs mollie yesterday. Her refusal to just be helpful and respond, rather than come up with excuses to not answer.

[Starbuck]

anyway I settled onto her for the lulz and now she has to come up with reasons for wanting me around which is even lulzier.

And I mean, how is not considered anti-town? She didn't do it because I thought I was scum.

[Starbuck]

EDBWOP: "she thought I was scum"

Fucking tablet.

[Starbuck]

In response to Espy's #1885 which is a response to my general notes about his ISO in my #1729. Just for reference, when I do my ISO readovers, I annotate actions and things that may not necessarily need a response, but that are interesting to me. It's easier to jump back to my thoughts in my own ISO than jump all around looking for it later in the game.

Someone that I've been wanting to read over is Espy, I can go back and look at AJ if anyone is curious about that, but since Espy filled the slot, I'd rather focus on his actions.

- Gets in and automatically asks for mollie to fill him in

What in this is bad? Mollie is a player I trust.

- Names Zito as town, notscience as prob town, and votes for MattP based off of Zito's opinion

Again, this is fine in my book.

He, then, posts this:

Ok so feel free to call me dumb here, but why is mattp seeming to be everyone's go to right now. Like I haven't read so idk the case but given the way everyone is posing it seems kinda easy, you feel me?

As he is voting........for MattP.

Which I feel doesn't go against why I was voting there. Do you want to argue my question and view of the situation is flawed?

- Votes Myko for no reason.

Untrue

Realizes that he is a replacement, and states again that he isn't reading.

- Says he'll ride the game based on gut until it slows down, which means following folks who he has town reads on is going to be it.

Par for the course.

- His take on mollie is null town and Reck is town pool proper.

How do these points count against me?

- Tries to placate mollie from the reck vs her back and forth.

Which is the mature play when I am townreading reck.

- Jumps at me about psychological tells during the recent back and forth between mollie and I. Seems to think that I have a "knows more/is better" attitude that goes with the informed minority. Puts me in the null scum pile based on this ridiculousness.

Ok this is 100% not ridiculousness. It a style of scumreading I have been using for a long time and has decent success, enough for me to still be using it today. Explain how using basic human nature and applying it someone's actions doesn't work.

- Likes Bins' tone (which reminds me that I need to read over her, too), but notscience's trust in people who read them favorably is sitting bad with Espy, re: buddying. I can agree with that to a point.

Then why is this in your case on me?

- Likes working with mollie, even if mollie isn't a town read?

And?

- Involved post in response to me responding about the psychological tells. As someone who hasn't played with me before, I find it very difficult to see how psychological tells play into it.

Are you a member of the human race? If the answer is yes, it applies. If anything, if I did know you there would be less reason to use it.

Thinks I asked him to discount something because I asked him to. Not sure what that was.

I don't really get how being annoying by mollie asking to be nk'd/vigged turned into a need to for Espy to explain mollie's stance. That's the second person now, after CDB (during his back and forth with her), needing to explain her actions but not letting her explain them herself.

It was drawing away from more important things and a mollie with her head screwed on is very beneficial for town if she is town.

Espy is over into my scummy pile.

idgi

responses in bold

1. On asking mollie to fill him in....

This is bad because instead of reading through the game and getting your own feel, you are filtering it through mollie. It's not bad because it is mollie that you asked. You can insert any other player's name, including my own, and it would still be bad for this reason. It is bad because you refused to come in as a blank slate and garner your own opinions and take on things. Additionally, how do you know that you can trust mollie and that she isn't scum trying to steer you wrong if you didn't read any portion of the game to get your own reads?



2. On voting for MattP and then saying that MattP was everyone's "go-to" vote....

Why doesn't it go against why you were voting here? I will argue that your question and view of the situation is flawed because you refused to read. So how can you have an all-around view of the situation to begin with?



3. On your take of mollie and Reck...

I've already explained that when I look through ISOs, I just take general notes. If I have a question, I state it, but otherwise something like "his take on mollie is null town and Reck is town pool proper" is just a re-statement of what you said or did.


4. Placating mollie from reck....

Your response here states that you are townreading Reck, are you still townreading him?


5. On his psychological tells....

It is total ridiculousness because (1) you've never played with me before, (2) you have this assumption that I have some kind of attitude when I really don't, and (3) you didn't read the game to even be able to have some solid ground to stand on. So no, I can't take you with any kind of seriousness when you don't even try to put in the time to get your own reads or to back up mollie every chance you get.

More or less, you came into this game with bias because you chose to not read anything yourself and rely on mollie.


6. On Bins' tone...

Again, these are my overall notes on your ISO. It's not wholly a case. However, I am allowed to find some common ground with someone that I find to be scummy.


7. On working with mollie even if she isn't a town read....

Going with #6 up there and my explanation of finding common ground, what's the point of this question?


8. What you deem important and what other players deem important are usually pretty different. It's really awkward to see both you and CDB needed to speak for mollie when she's perfectly capable of doing so herself. What you guys effectively did is cover for her, so that she has more reasons to give excuses about not responding.

[Starbuck]

True.

I guess D1 I was super sick of getting questioned or laughed @ every move I made.
I'm not confident D1 to begin with, so that didn't help.

If it makes sense, it's sort of bad of me to say this, but because I wasn't confident in my reads I didn't feel right to go "GUYS VOTE SC NOW NOW NOW I KNOW IM RIGHT EXAMPLE A B C WHY HE IS SCUM YA!" Same with Flame and Davsto. I didn't have evidence D1. Didn't really want people to sheep me if they didn't get the same vibes I did anyways.

^^ I'm not really buying this because while you didn't want people to sheep you, you seemed to sheep everyone else. Folks, take a look at my 1754.

You spent a quantity of your time arguing with Zito rather than just answering his question about why you voted SC. It's paramount, especially on Day 1 to lay out a case just in that manner which you said above. It's okay to not be confident in your reads, but that doesn't absolve you from your refusal to add to the conversation. None of us that are town are certain of anything but our own Role PMs. You wasted a ton of time arguing rather than saying, "I think he is scummy because of this, this and this. I'm not confident that he is scum, but this is my feeling on him." That's all that's needed and you refused to do that. You were vague, you argued when folks pressured you to expound on what you felt was "awkward", and you did the exact thing that you didn't want others to do with you - sheeping.

tbh I never felt I was arguing with Zito until I mentioned that I felt his questions were going nowhere.

And even though I didn't clarify that my vote was on a weak feeling, I thought that was slightly obvious because I only had one reason. "I think he's scummy because of ___, and that's how I feel." is pretty much exactly what I was saying.

His questions were going no where because you refused to give him a straight answer.

[Starbuck]

No. Wait a minute. Obviously poro would't put a jester in. Tell me the truth.

Huh?

and why?

I'll get back to that later. Don't have the effort at the moment.

It's Day 2. You spent all of Day 1 giving excuses, and it's not going to fly today.

Give some real content or die.

[Starbuck]

No. Wait a minute. Obviously poro would't put a jester in. Tell me the truth.

Huh?

and why?

I'll get back to that later. Don't have the effort at the moment.

It's Day 2. You spent all of Day 1 giving excuses, and it's not going to fly today.

Give some real content or die.

Do I have a third option?

But seriously relax, I'll get to it tomorrow. It's on my to-do list. Look!

That was a really great response.

/highfive

[Starbuck]

Ethan loved his family more than anything and would do anything for them. He truly regretted that his work kept away from them so long.

Votecount 2.02

Espeonage

(4): scotmany12, Papa Zito, Starbuck, Davsto

scotmany12

(1): ChannelDelibird

Starbuck

(1): Spiffeh

Papa Zito

(1): pirate mollie

Bins

(1): notscience

Not Voting

(8): xRECKONERx, Nexus, Espeonage, Flameaxe, curiouskarmadog, catboi, mykonian, Bins

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

@Mod - As far as I know, Spiffeh never voted for me

[Starbuck]

Oh gosh, am I that interchangeable with Reck? Oh noes.

[Starbuck]

So you'd vote for Espy if not for those already voting? Who makes you feel this way and why?

[Starbuck]

Things have been going so slow in this game that I got prodded. Gimme a few and I'll catch up on what I missed.

[Starbuck]

Busy busy busy week and weekend thanks to lots of robotics stuff kicking into gear and having an Extra Life Jax table and panels at Wasabi Con. I'm sorry. I should have went V/LA then go back into prod range.

How close are we to deadline? I didn't see that in any of the recent vote counts.

[Starbuck]

EDBWOP: *rather than go back into prod range

[Starbuck]

It's nice to see activity picked up. It was getting boring with like 4 of us talking. I hope that means that I should have some interesting reading when I get back from Wasabi Con later this afternoon.

[Starbuck]

See, this is some crap. Now you get to ask for both of us to die. That's some BS.

I started my Notepad doc, but I'll post some full stuff later today.

[Starbuck]

If you really are town, you will be sacrificing not one, but TWO townies. Stop being ridiculous.

[Starbuck]

Mega catch up incoming.....

Starting on Page 81......


I really like seeing catboi do some digging through ISOs. There's a few that I need to get to at some point.

voteparking absolutely is scummy combined with lurking.

No, it's not. Some of us have lives to attend to and/or are here when no one else actually wants to add anything to the game, and come back to 20+ more pages.

Also my micro just ended, so now this is my only game, which means y'all get all my attention.

Starbuck I do not know as a player.

This is blatantly untrue. We played many a game back in the day.


I like Dav's points about Espy in #2053. Glad to see some good input from you.

This is the goddamn reason why I didn't want to do it, because once I do everyone goes "yeh he's scum"

fucking morton's fucking fork bullshit

If you are town, why are overly concerned with looking scummy?

Because the point of the game is to lynch scum. When you know you aren't and the mob forms and they swear that you are, it's hella frustrating. Like the fact in this game that not one person, save for Reck, seems to think that I'm town when I know that I am. This means that, eventually, I'm going to be mislynched (or vigged thanks to the link with mollie) because no one wants to believe me. Or right now, the only reason that I'm even being kept alive is that no one wants to see mollie die. I mean, if you guys think I'm so scummy, where the fuck is my lynch? All these people saying that I'm scum, but just are using my back and forth with mollie as reasoning is weak. But you know, I guess it doesn't matter that I've been doing my best to give my thoughts, go through ISOs, and try to be as informed as I can (V/LAs and busyness not withstanding).

Davsto, I know your pain bro. Like I take my time and go through rather than skimming so that I can give the best assessment that I can and no one takes the time to even consider it. However, reading this back and forth that you're having around Page 83-84, giving some solid good cases could build you back up. You've got to see the other side of it, too. All you really did for Day 1 is just post about how you couldn't post. I mean, I've had my few days where I just wasn't here, but I caught back up and contributed (not like that's given any thought, but you know). For you, it's different because your ISO is just full of excuses about how you couldn't do anything. So take a moment, write out a decent case, and go from there.


And then those votes on Davsto for what I read as honest and genuine frustration are just terrible. I'm looking at you scot and Zito.


Ending Bottom of Page 84.

[Starbuck]

Starting Top of Page 85....

Oh wow, mollie and I agree on Davsto.


scot, I totally disagree with your #2103 for reasons stated in my last catch up post. The reasoning for Davsto is pretty damn weak. I get the thought behind it, but it's just horridly flimsy case.


In CKD's #2110, the phrasing that he bolds in Davsto's post could easily be a semantics thing.


Liking catboi's scot analysis in #2125, if you TLDR'd that, you may wanna go back for a read.

Also, the amount of people brushing it off as "he's clearly genuine!!!!" is getting to me because I simply don't see it. I don't see how they could see it. And I think that's an easy stance that people could be taking on their buddy, though, I doubt they'd be as obvious about it.

But yet, this reasoning was used for mollie and no one batted an eye.


Am I the only person who didn't feel like CDB had no comprehension of the Dav wagon? I feel like his words were just taken and ran with.


Ending at the Bottom of Page 89

[Starbuck]

Starting Top of Page 90....

After allllllllllllll of these pages, I've seen like two posts from Reck. I've been busy, so I get all that, but I mean, there really hasn't been much from him since the back and forth with mollie.

Oh and to go along with that, a severe lack of Espy, too. Curiouser and curiouser.

i'm 100% ok if you disagree with it

it has very weak reasons right now

but to not understand it?

Why do you think the reasoning is weak?

I'm not sure what the better word is his.

Not weak, just not... uh, specific examples. Just his play in general. His attitude and his effort.

What kind of response is this? I would have expected some detail, like "this person is voting Davsto for this reason, and this is why it is weak."

Much elaboration needed.


I'm curious to see Nexus' detailed case about CDB.


As this goes farther and farther, with the added gifs and what not, does it not feel that Davsto is just trolling and upping the page count for the fuck of it? I mean, seriously, you aren't helping the case on yourself at all. Stop the "woe is me" bullshit and answer questions. Contribute. If this continues any longer, as much as I feel that you're genuine, I may have to join the policy lynch crew just to be rid of the mass distraction that you are causing.


I completely agree with Flameaxe's #2269 analysis on Bins. I mentioned quite a bit of the same during my end of Day 1 ISO read through. And that response to Flameaxe's post, ugh. We're on Day 2. Can you have some kind of substantial case with examples, rather than gut, please?

Newsflash: content can be empty. You can do stuff without doing anything. ITS LITERALLY THE POINT OF THE GAME FOR ONE FACTION

QFT. I laughed so hard at this.

No I'm pretty happy calling out an actively distracting part of the town, thanks though!

So, are you confirming that mollie is town?


Ending Bottom of Page 92

[Starbuck]

So I'm just wondering is anything that I say being taken into consideration, or should I just go full Davsto? I mean, if I'm just being kept around because of mollie.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the Top of Page 93....

pedit @mollie im not. That's stating a point. Your stupid quarrels in day one were worthless and distracting. So what?

Agreed. I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just wanted some kind of response so I could get a feel of reading mollie for myself and not needing to rely on the reads of others.

what
the
fuck?!

I don't know bins WHAT

seriously what

Pedit @mollie im not. That's stating a point. Your stupid quarrels in day one were worthless and distracting. So what?

I am more than willing to accept criticism to my play.

so i wanted sc lynch pretty early! and then pple argued with me about why they did not think he was scum. I got distracted. but he was scum!

why is this now a thing?

For me, I just was trying to figure out where your head was at. I wanted you to show us, within this game, what it was that gave you warning bells against SC. I didn't care to see the meta. I wanted to know the exact moment that you knew he was scum in Prozac's Basic Theme 4 - Murder in Marlowe.


What in the fuck is this?

ok, I don't know about nexus still. Didn't help me all that much. He's aware of his posting, but I don't see from which allignment it comes.


It is starbuck though. She's scum. The issue is explaining this to you. It's mostly her interaction with mollie, she's searching for it, but is mostly debating for the audience that is us. Now this I had somewhat seen before (towards the end of that interaction), but the start is just as interesting.


Cute post is this:

Too late. Mollie's entire case on SC is based on meta.

in isolation already not great, knowing SC's flip even worse.

Otherwise Post 510, 828 are for example showing what I mean with her interaction with mollie. She's not as much interested in mollie herself, as well as making sure the interaction is seen favorably to the rest of the town. Also something else I see, probably should look at a couple of other starbuck games.

1. I am not scum.

2. I was not debating for the audience in any fucking way whats-so-god-damn-ever. What a crock of B.S.

3. So now you've seen it before, but you BLATANTLY LIED earlier and said you DID NOT KNOW ME AS A PLAYER. I can't count how many games that I played with you or that were moderated by you.

4. As for mollie's case being based on meta, I asked her multiple times to show us where in THIS GAME that she got her scumread from. What particular post. What particular example. And she fucking refused. So yeah, her entire case was based on meta outside of this game. Rather than help those of us who were struggling to see it, she became abrasive and unhelpful when asked questions.

5. So what about posts 510 and 828? What particular phrase or sentence makes you feel that I'm working harder to be seen favorably than to scum hunt? Because I was scumhunting all day yesterday up to the point that the thread was locked.


That whole post is the definition of easy, flimsy, and weak.

And a vote, then an unvote once you are reminded that mollie loverized me. If you think I'm scum, why are you not voting to kill me? Wouldn't a scum kill, with the loss of a townie, still be a scum kill?


Ending Bottom of Page 94

[Starbuck]

prods on Halloween weekend? COME THE FUCK ON PORO

There the fuck you are. Jeebus.

[Starbuck]

Oh yeah, @Star: What is the point of posting everything someone has done if it doesn't pertain to the case you are trying to make. All it does is fill out your post and make it longer. Take the wall you made on me. The points that are actually anything potentially against me are 3 and 8. I can get behind you using your third dot point. It's relational to a dead scum player, that is fine. However point 8 is part of the back and forth of you not understanding that psyche tells go for everyone and if people are going to be exempt from them it's going to be the people I actually know because I might have prior knowledge of them not adhering with the majority.

That's out of 13 points.

And then I am part of the scum pile? How does that even work? Almost the whole post is just raw information which is construed as being support for a case. Almost all of it doesn't even make up the case. It looks nice. And I remember at least one person saying that the case looked good? What part of it looks good? Is it the length, because that's the only impressive part of it, and it's actually manufactured.

And the worst part of it all, is that this goes for all the reread cases star has done. She has fluffed up posts with stuff that in no way pertains to the case and thinks that makes things look legit. I haven't pulled apart the bins case but if I can be fucked I might, just the show how little there actually is in what Star is using to call people scum.

1. I like to do a full look at the ISO and note everything that sticks out to me, break it down in one post, and have all my notes on that particular ISO available to the rest of my town to analyze and look over. I feel that's part of my job for scumhunting and it's something that I'll continue to do. And you're right, not all of it may pertain to the case, but some of it may pertain further down the road. Additionally, I may need to go back and look up something. Looking through my analysis within my posts (re: things that stick out for me) is easier than going back through the individual ISOs every time when I need to look something up.

2. How are you part of the scum pile? Let's look at #1729. I guess I need to break this down again....

- You refuse to come to your own conclusions and rely on mollie to tell you what's up
- You sheep Zito and do nothing to add a case on MattP
- You question the MattP lynch while voting for MattP, and admit that (1) you haven't read it and (2) it seems kinda easy (Discrediting much?)
- You vote for myko and state that you really aren't reading
- You say you'll ride the game based on gut and who you have town reads on (even though you didn't read the game)
- You go on a tangent about "psychological tells" to make a push on me and rather than ask me questions
- You favor working with mollie, even if you didn't read her as town. Isn't that counterintuitive if you are a townie?
- You felt the need to explain mollie's reasoning, about asking to be nk'd/vigged, rather than let her answer.

That's like the entire thing, my friend.

3. After the above, and the original post, I think it's clear why you are in my scum pile. It's not just "raw information" and yes, mostly all of it makes up the case. It is not "manufactured."

4. Oh look at his discrediting in that last part guys. Can we kill him today, please?

[Starbuck]

I feel like espy's post about star was pretty on point, marquis noticed that on d1, it is why I loverized her. so now I am really unsure on him.

Can point to the Marquis post(s) that you are referring to?

[Starbuck]

EDBWOP: *Can you point to the Marquis post(s) that you are referring to?

[Starbuck]

I'm still happy as hell with my Espy vote. I could definitely go with mykonian, as well. I don't dig the Davsto vote.

[Starbuck]

So are we basically just going full circle back around to playstyle vs playstyle? Because that's not gonna help us find scum.

[Starbuck]

So are we basically just going full circle back around to playstyle vs playstyle? Because that's not gonna help us find scum.

that...wasn't my point at all. I guess i shldn't be surprised that you missed it tho.

If I'm wrong, explain it to me.

[Starbuck]

This is the goddamn reason why I didn't want to do it, because once I do everyone goes "yeh he's scum"

fucking morton's fucking fork bullshit

If you are town, why are overly concerned with looking scummy?

Because the point of the game is to lynch scum. When you know you aren't and the mob forms and they swear that you are, it's hella frustrating. Like the fact in this game that not one person, save for Reck, seems to think that I'm town when I know that I am. This means that, eventually, I'm going to be mislynched (or vigged thanks to the link with mollie) because no one wants to believe me. Or right now, the only reason that I'm even being kept alive is that no one wants to see mollie die. I mean, if you guys think I'm so scummy, where the fuck is my lynch? All these people saying that I'm scum, but just are using my back and forth with mollie as reasoning is weak. But you know, I guess it doesn't matter that I've been doing my best to give my thoughts, go through ISOs, and try to be as informed as I can (V/LAs and busyness not withstanding).

Where did this come from? Who, besides espe and myk, recently called you scummy? I mean, I think you are town. I just don't go and throw out my reads all the time. I don't get this reaction from you.

It was just something that was on my mind. I'm getting really frustrated in this game and it just seemed to all come out on that post/question. It was more of an overall response and directed at everyone, not just specifically to you.

[Starbuck]

No such thing has happened. You haven't even attempted to answer his questions. You still haven't answered my question regarding your quick vote, unvote on notty. And now you aren't even willing to give zito a simple yes/no answer (the answer to his question is also not in your first post of the day). It's a simple question, and I'm not sure why you are making a big deal out of it. Just answer it.

This is what started me vs mollie yesterday. Her refusal to just be helpful and respond, rather than come up with excuses to not answer.

that's not a scumtell, ive seen plenty of people get indignant and start going RTFM as town (myself included)

I didn't say it was a scumtell.

[Starbuck]

I didn't say it was a scumtell.

don't engage with townies if you're town and know it's just going to result in dumb shit

thanks

Whoa dude. Really?

[Starbuck]

I didn't say it was a scumtell.

don't engage with townies if you're town and know it's just going to result in dumb shit

thanks

Whoa dude. Really?

okay im just like... you point that out and dont think she's scum so why are you flinging shit @ a townie?

Because I felt it was relevant to what scot was saying, as he's not the only person who has had trouble getting mollie to just straight up answer a question. His response, which is originally quoted, is a response to mollie.

[Starbuck]

And why the hell would I think she's town when she's effectively linked me to her? I mean, wtf, I've been trying to give a good effort to this game and it's been really hard not to replace out for the sheer fact that I feel like no one is actually giving anything I say any kind of fucking consideration.

I mean, you read me true the moment that I did my first catch up posts. Unless you did that to get on my good side, which is a distinct possibility given my lack of Mafiascum over the past two and a half years.

[Starbuck]

Mollie, should we team up and lynch the hell outta Reck? Jeebus.

[Starbuck]

Am I the only person who didn't feel like CDB had no comprehension of the Dav wagon? I feel like his words were just taken and ran with.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

So I'm just wondering is anything that I say being taken into consideration, or should I just go full Davsto? I mean, if I'm just being kept around because of mollie.

I'm reading your posts, but I'm not finding a whole lot to interface with. Just realized I missed 1981 when I was trying to look back, need to read that, don't know if I'm going to be able to tonight

1. Reading through, Bins and a few others were all like "CDB doesn't UNDERSTAND! It'd be okay if he didn't agree, but he doesn't UNDERSTAND." I feel like they decided to take what he said and make it mean what they wanted it to mean (and, thus, further their case), rather than asking him to clarify. I mean, if we're going to talk about some weak shit, that's a real good example.

2. There is a further response to Espe in the past few pages after he, again, tries to discredit me and my write up of him.

[Starbuck]

I can totally believe starbuck's note-taking is legitimate but it's still hard for me to get a handle on why she's actually scumreading people, reading 1981 I understand she didn't like the way he started the game by asking mollie about stuff or how he reacted to the matt wagon, and disagreeing with him claiming some psychological tell or whatever (i haven't traced this back to its source but it feels not very meaningful, aside from whether he actually believes it). that's okay though not anything that hasn't been said by a lot of people, I think?

So instead of saying "it's hard for me to get a handle on why she's actually scumreading people," why not ask me to elaborate or explain? That's been the whole thing throughout this game. I can't answer or clarify for you, if I don't know you need/want clarification or elaboration.

[Starbuck]

Thank you catboi and others for justifying this behavior

He has a chance to change it. I wanted to give him that chance. If he continues to refuse, I have no problem getting the policy wagon on the road and be rid of the distraction.

[Starbuck]

Fuck offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

Fuck this game with a large spiky cactus on fire

coated in acid

Yep, over it.

UNVOTE: Espeonage
VOTE: Davsto

[Starbuck]

Oh wow, Page 104 is a ton better.

UNVOTE: Unvote

[Starbuck]

EDBWOP:

Fucked that up.

UNVOTE: Davsto

[Starbuck]

103, I mean. God dammit.

[Starbuck]

Uh, what? How is

that

the straw that breaks the camel's back?

I was hoping to put some more pressure (in hopes for real content) because all I saw, again, was more garbage posting. Then I flipped over to Page 103 and it turned into actual contribution. I should have just caught up before posting,

[Starbuck]

So Imma go back to Espy because that's my top scumread of the day.

VOTE: Espeonage

[Starbuck]

pedit: Reck if you want to read that mess as genuine that's fair I guess except how can you explain the refusal to give reads or do ANYTHING beyond yelling about Espeonage? And do you think his interactions with our flipped Scumbob Squarepants are kosher?

I get shouty and indignant and "NO FUCK YOU" as town when people don't listen to me so like...I'm pretty on board w/ where Dav is coming from

I think I'd still prefer a myko wagon to Espe mostly bc i haven't seen the Espy case and also he's calling me town

I can link you back to my thoughts, if you'd like.

I'd be okay with a myko wagon, too.

[Starbuck]

Real quick, you know who also said Davsto was genuine....

MattP.

[Starbuck]

For Reck...

My ISO read through - #1729

The back and forth between Espy and I - #1981

Even further clarification from the above back and forth - #2433

[Starbuck]

I would vote Aj over Davsto. I think Davsto's narrative for his disinterest in the game is genuine, whereas Aj is actively avoiding contribution to most aspects of the games but providing disingenuous and over-defensive reasoning for doing so.

yep. you are right star. scummate trying to dissuade interest in dave's lynch?

cos no1 else has said this. if you did I missed it star, sorry

I just spotted it as I was going through my own ISO looking for my posts on Espy to share with Reck.

[Starbuck]

Hence why I post everything that I'm thinking about on the off chance that it becomes helpful further on down the line.

Take that, Espy.

[Starbuck]

If I counted right, Espy is at L-2.

[Starbuck]

Sorry to disappoint, but no.

[Starbuck]

Scum backpedaling from a bus?

[Starbuck]

WTF with that Reck unvote on Espy? I don't see Espy's response as town. It could go either way. I got some warning bells with that one.

Espy should not claim unless there's an intent to hammer. And suddenly there's not because fuckos be fuckoing.

QFT

[Starbuck]

Warning bells with Reck to further clarify that.

[Starbuck]

Flameaxe gets me on Bins.

[Starbuck]

If you have good reasons, why don't you share them with the class?

[Starbuck]

After all those pages, that's all you got?

[Starbuck]

Yeah, I know.

Must be a playstyle difference.

[Starbuck]

*insert witty rebuttal here*

pedit-

No mollie I am embracing their playstyles for I have seen the error of my own

Please join us

It is the one true path

Dude, it was a joke.

[Starbuck]

It was at the expense of everyone constantly using "playstyle difference" as an excuse.

[Starbuck]

This waffling about does nothing for me.

[Starbuck]

Knock him into oblivion, Flameaxe.

[Starbuck]

He waffled about way too much. That's why my vote remained. Link your crumb and say your role. Don't take a few posts to fakeclaim and then go "sorry, guys, I was lying, I'm really this."

[Starbuck]

I was thinking the same as Reck. If he's a hider, it makes sense to hide behind his town read. If he's roleclaiming cop, it makes no sense. It all came down to delivery. He failed that horribly.

[Starbuck]

I won't lie. I was doing a victory dance around my room when I saw the flip, and have been grinning like a Cheshire Cat since. Imma call BS on "psychological tells" from this day forward.

Damn the loss of Zito, though.

I could roll with a Bins vote today. I'm not sold on mykonian either, and I've let Reck float by for awhile, but I haven't been feeling all that confident in him over the past bit.

"oh Espe is dead so let's bus easy by not believing his claim"

Think that's a total of 2 people. Me and flameaxe? The rest stayed put.

don't think you will find all that much there, then. Suppose you are town, I think scum would wait to see how much damage you could cause post claim. I suspect it's the silent ones, on or off the wagon, that are fun to look at. Don't have any idea who they'd be.

Seriously.

I mean what he did contribute was scummy.

Not all of it, though. Like quite a few (Bins, etc) took what he said about the Davsto wagon and twisted it to what they wanted it to mean, and really overreacted about it.

[Starbuck]

"oh Espe is dead so let's bus easy by not believing his claim"

Think that's a total of 2 people. Me and flameaxe? The rest stayed put.

don't think you will find all that much there, then. Suppose you are town, I think scum would wait to see how much damage you could cause post claim. I suspect it's the silent ones, on or off the wagon, that are fun to look at. Don't have any idea who they'd be.

no I mean people who also didn't back off him who were already voting for him
my reaction as town isn't "go go go lynch even faster" it's "can we please think about this?"

everyone voting me isn't thinking logically and/or being oppurtunistic cause I'm in an awful spot having believe esp.

Where do you get the idea that it was "lynch faster"? Weren't we at like 36 something hrs left till deadline? That's far from a quick lynch.

I didn't back off him because Espe was scummy as fuck, but yet, no one else seemed to really call him out on it, except for Davsto. I thought it was pretty well thought out for the most part.

Do you wanna do some lynch analyzation for us, rather than this vagueness? Like who are the people that you are referring to when you say "people who also didn't back off him who were already voting him"? What connections do you see?

I can empathize with you because I was in the same boat when it came to MattP.

[Starbuck]

With the fact that KMD just replaced in, I think he should be given a chance to at least get in the game and add some substance. These quick votes with little to no reason are kinda bad.

everyone voting me isn't thinking logically and/or being oppurtunistic cause I'm in an awful spot having believe esp.

If I'd vote you I'd have a myriad of reasons which have nothing to do with esp.

Same here.

Off topic, can we get a like button for the forums? Flameaxe has made me really LOL so many times in this game.

[Starbuck]

"oh Espe is dead so let's bus easy by not believing his claim"

Think that's a total of 2 people. Me and flameaxe? The rest stayed put.

don't think you will find all that much there, then. Suppose you are town, I think scum would wait to see how much damage you could cause post claim. I suspect it's the silent ones, on or off the wagon, that are fun to look at. Don't have any idea who they'd be.

no I mean people who also didn't back off him who were already voting for him
my reaction as town isn't "go go go lynch even faster" it's "can we please think about this?"

everyone voting me isn't thinking logically and/or being oppurtunistic cause I'm in an awful spot having believe esp.

Where do you get the idea that it was "lynch faster"? Weren't we at like 36 something hrs left till deadline? That's far from a quick lynch.

I didn't back off him because Espe was scummy as fuck, but yet, no one else seemed to really call him out on it, except for Davsto. I thought it was pretty well thought out for the most part.

Do you wanna do some lynch analyzation for us, rather than this vagueness? Like who are the people that you are referring to when you say "people who also didn't back off him who were already voting him"? What connections do you see?

I can empathize with you because I was in the same boat when it came to MattP.

I'm planning on doing analysis again but it'll have to be after Thursday because I have two big midterms this week. I shouldn't even be on Mafia right now, I just have a little time before bed.

I mean it "went faster" as in it didn't stop. I expected it to have a little big of a tug backward. A "wait a minute." But instead it felt like it was pushed forward.

Why would it have had a "wait a minute" moment? He waffled about and royally fucked up his chance of being convincing. I think a summed it up pretty well at the end of yesterday.

He waffled about way too much. That's why my vote remained. Link your crumb and say your role. Don't take a few posts to fakeclaim and then go "sorry, guys, I was lying, I'm really this."

[Starbuck]

So L-2 with someone having stated universal intent so not going to take my chances.

I am an investigative role. I crumbed my result in a fairly standard way that I can highlight if really needed. But I think it's pretty damn clear who I targeted.

@scot: Please, please explain what was even halfway decent about star's case on me. This isn't the first time you've touted your belief in it. And it has been proven as an incredibly thin case. So please, go in to detail about why it is such amazing, or admit that it was just the Aj stuff. Thanks. This is relevant because star is getting away with shithousing work and you're enabling it. At least Dav is giving something for emotional readers to potentially glean something off. A paper thin saving grace I'll admit, but it's more than star is giving anyone.

Oh and my target wasn't star if people are bloody dumb. I would have claimed shit like that, not crumbed it.

R

ight, I am going to wait for Star's response to response because I got the impression while doing those responses that it wasn't all meant as a case and I want to make sure.

E

ither way I think it looks bad, especially taking in to account that this has been done in regards to multiple people.

C

an someone for the moment fill me in on exactly what is going on with the AJ on SC stuff that is being used as a case bc atm I don't really understand what I am being lynched for.

K

inda interested in the jumps on my wagon from people not in the bloc.

I

'm just going to do this.

S

how my intent etc, etc.

Vote: Star

N

o.

W

ait a minute.

O

bviously poro would't put a jester in.

T

ell me the truth.

Was dat spell?

Reck is town.

That's all y'all need to know.

I never said it was obvi. I said it was p standard. -.-

Ok Zito's concerns are real and make a lot of sense and I have no refutation for them because they are all things that are real. I was hoping to draw kill. But I'm a Hider.

No, bc it was always my plan to claim cop when I forced to claim if I lived so I could draw NK which I believe is optimal play.

I realised I never git a chance to crumb a target yesterday which meant I had do go something p safe last night.

[Starbuck]

He lied completely. He said he was a cop with a terrible crumb, then a hider.

[Starbuck]

Espe flipped as a Mafia Goon. So he fakeclaimed hider and said he hid behind Reck.

[Starbuck]

Bins, look up. I quoted everything.

[Starbuck]

I'm sorry. He said "investigative role." Po-tay-toe, Po-tah-toe.

[Starbuck]

I feel like Bins is being purposefully obtuse.

[Starbuck]

Hider is an investigative role?

All you have to do is read through Espe's ISO or the quotes above to see why this is so wrong.

It's like you weren't playing the same game as us at the end of yesterday.

[Starbuck]

Are you really defending the flipped scum?

[Starbuck]

So who is in the pool as his buddy?

[Starbuck]

No, her nonvote isn't the issue. It's the fact that she can't seem to see why many people didn't move their vote after his claim. Like I said at the end of the day, for me, it was all about his delivery. He was waffling. He was bumbling around. I think it's pretty easy to see why most of us stuck with our votes.

[Starbuck]

I'm just sick of being called obtuse/useless, lmao.
And having BBM "lol" at half the things I do.

I play this game to have fun not be poked at. Realize that I could be town and therefore telling the truth when I say I'm trying my best so when you say "she's useless" and "she's obtuse" it sort of gets to me. Cool? Thanks!

I get that. I just felt about this particular topic that you are just refusing to read through. It's not meant as a personal jab. I don't think you are obtuse as a person. I feel within the realm of the game that you are just being purposefully obtuse about this particular subject in which were are speaking.

[Starbuck]

I'm just sick of being called obtuse/useless, lmao.
And having BBM "lol" at half the things I do.

I play this game to have fun not be poked at. Realize that I could be town and therefore telling the truth when I say I'm trying my best so when you say "she's useless" and "she's obtuse" it sort of gets to me. Cool? Thanks!

I get that. I just felt about this particular topic that you are just refusing to read through. It's not meant as a personal jab. I don't think you are obtuse as a person. I feel within the realm of the game that you are just being purposefully obtuse about this particular subject in which were are speaking.

[Starbuck]

Anyways, KMD, I look forward to your analysis and catch up.

[Starbuck]

Page 20/21:
This goes against my reads so far, but Starbuck made some points against Mollie and I don't like how Mollie acknowledges that they exist, but shrugs it off andchooses instead to focus on notscience's reaction to CDB's mollie meta or whatever that whole fiasco is. Although I don't get why Starbuck conceded that point when it was a pretty good one.

Keep going. It gets better.

You'll see how horribly distracting the back and forth becomes farther on.

[Starbuck]

Not to mention, do you see how CDB immediately discredits what I'm saying as "complaining"?

[Starbuck]

Knock off the personal attack, please.

[Starbuck]

To address Davsto's #2952, I wasn't saying you were bad at the game and my post that you quoted says is exactly what I meant. I wanted you to replace out for someone who would actually contribute. Your contribution was the problem, not your play. You were making every excuse in the book to not contribute and thus, becoming a distraction.

There's a difference with being frustrated about your lack of contribution and saying that you are bad at the game. I'm not sure how that message got construed from "Starbuck dislikes Davsto's lack of contribution" to "Starbuck thinks Davsto is bad at the game" because that's not what I think at all.