Prozac's Basic Theme 4 - Murder in Marlowe - OVER!

[Espeonage]

Mollie fill me in.

[Espeonage]

wat?

[Espeonage]

Unvote

jic this slot is voting someone.

[Espeonage]

Zito is town pile. Notty is probs town pile.

As per normal I have not read the game.

Who we lynching? Mattp is what I'm gathering from zito posts.

vote: mattp

[Espeonage]

Zito is town pile. Notty is probs town pile.

As per normal I have not read the game.

Who we lynching? Mattp is what I'm gathering from zito posts.

vote: mattp

and me?

You haven't posted enough since I replaced in. You're still pretty if that counts.

[Espeonage]

Fuck it's been a long time since I saw a town reck.

[Espeonage]

how did catboi's aj case not get more traction? it basically just happened then that was it

Destiny, because now you are stuck with meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[Espeonage]

is reck ever in sitechat?

NEWZ TO ME

He's lying. But LAL is dumb so he's k for now.

[Espeonage]

Ok so feel free to call me dumb here, but why is mattp seeming to be everyone's go to right now. Like I haven't read so idk the case but given the way everyone is posing it seems kinda easy, you feel me?

[Espeonage]

I don't remember. I read one wall and head seemed to be in the right place.

[Espeonage]

:/

That smells a bit like peeps be meta'ing badly. Ifthere is an explanation that peeps are aware of then idgi.

Unvote, Vote: Myko

[Espeonage]

He's a replacement, k. That might have more to it. But I ain't reading so you're gonna have to tell me.

[Espeonage]

MattP needs to die because SC was scummy af and too many people are like "yeah MattP is scum BUT LET ME VOTE HERE INSTEAD".

Espeonage just go read SC's ISO and people's responses to it to see why he was scummy. It's not that long.

bruh

[Espeonage]

Aww shit myko actually understands me. I love you.

[Espeonage]

This is gonna be a decently fast paced game. Gut is all I'm gonna have untilt he game slows down, and so following peeps that I have gut town reads on is about all I have being a replacement.

Also my endgame is making reck mad enought hat I can read him.

[Espeonage]

The truth bruh. I play myself in to games. Only mode I know.

[Espeonage]

wow some1 sounds worried

Mollie, you're getting worked up and let's be honest you tend to tunnel when ure mad. Reck is actually being objective here a quality he tends to lack when I pick up on his scum game. I generally have a good gut for Reck and he's actually looking p good here.

I am p sure you know how I feel about appeals to relational authority and while I respect your ability. I think ure wrong here and not focusing correctly. Peeps are fall able Reck too is fall able.

Now Reck. For like the first time ever we get to be town. Now I'm not saying molliw is town here. But her reading is generally based on emotional connection and I don't think this stuff is necessarily caused by her being obtuse Bc scum.

Try for your interactions. Mollie is null town. Reck is town pool proper.

[Espeonage]

Soz for quote I think I hit q+ when switching pages. #phonepostingt

[Espeonage]

Til Reck = aggro Tammy.

Pls Mollie. I am p sure Reck is town here.

[Espeonage]

wow some1 sounds worried

Mollie, you're getting worked up and let's be honest you tend to tunnel when ure mad. Reck is actually being objective here a quality he tends to lack when I pick up on his scum game. I generally have a good gut for Reck and he's actually looking p good here.

I am p sure you know how I feel about appeals to relational authority and while I respect your ability. I think ure wrong here and not focusing correctly. Peeps are fall able Reck too is fall able.

Now Reck. For like the first time ever we get to be town. Now I'm not saying molliw is town here. But her reading is generally based on emotional connection and I don't think this stuff is necessarily caused by her being obtuse Bc scum.

Try for your interactions. Mollie is null town. Reck is town pool proper.

mollie and tammy are special cases.
this doesn't suit you.

[Espeonage]

oops that was meant to be typed below not in the quote, soz.

[Espeonage]

happens all the time in games this large tbh spiff.

[Espeonage]

I've always been one for psychological tells and Starbuck here has the knows more/is better attitude that generally goes with informed minority. And the sarcasm is p bad too. Liking mollie more from the exchange. Potentially theater but not going to speculate on that for the moment. Star goes in to null scum pile.

@Star: What part of talking about mollie's talk of a vig is sitting badly with you. It's a role that mollie likes and with the chit chat about it allows her to have a say in how any theoretical vig plays in the night. It impacts night play when otherwise she might not be able to and there is no scum motivation I can see for talking about it. It can even put scum in weird positions where by weird calls makes them keen to not double shoot on someone or other scenarios. The focus from you on it much more offputting.

[Espeonage]

For the record, some other points to help peeps work out where I am sitting. I like Bins' tone. It feels right for how she is describing her state in terms of the game.

Something about notty's trust in people who are reading him favorably is sitting badly with me. Feels like buddying without it meaning to look like buddying. Mostly a gut iffyness though.

[Espeonage]

Posturing of relational tells for matt noted should matt be flipped and flip scum.

[Espeonage]

espy are you buddying me cos i am getting freaking paranoid.

I am reading my recent posts to star and you know what? I haven't been nasty.

star if you were interested in isoing pple you cld have spent your time doing that instead of taking a potshot at me cos I don't want to lynch notty.

Define buddying in this context. I like working with you, but you are not a town read right now.

[Espeonage]

I've always been one for psychological tells and Starbuck here has the knows more/is better attitude that generally goes with informed minority. And the sarcasm is p bad too. Liking mollie more from the exchange. Potentially theater but not going to speculate on that for the moment. Star goes in to null scum pile.

@Star: What part of talking about mollie's talk of a vig is sitting badly with you. It's a role that mollie likes and with the chit chat about it allows her to have a say in how any theoretical vig plays in the night. It impacts night play when otherwise she might not be able to and there is no scum motivation I can see for talking about it. It can even put scum in weird positions where by weird calls makes them keen to not double shoot on someone or other scenarios. The focus from you on it much more offputting.

Psychological tells? Is that a real thing now? I'm not quite sure how I have a "knows more/is better" attitude. I know just as much as Jon Snow knows.

I have been sarcastic, that is true. However, given the amount of pure BS that I've had to deal with from mollie in just this one day, that truly has nothing to do with gameplay, you might have to take it all with a grain of salt, too.


It's not sitting bad with me. I just find it to be odd to be constantly asking to be vigged or nk'd. If she's town, it's essentially playing against her win condition and instead of having some actual conversation, there's a ton of posts of hers asking to be killed. It just doesn't make sense.

Yes it's a thing. It's been one of my ways of reading for a long time. It's an attitude that generally goes with having more knowledge and currently as it is day 1, that generally points to mafia. Later it can be role stuff like where I pegged the FBI agent as SK in Capcom and stuff like that based on word use. But yeah day 1 = mafia generally. The reason you don't see me pushing you is because I like to have other stuff because it is a swingy set of tells.

I'm also not going to discount something because you ask me to. THAT would be playing against my wincon.

Now, I am kinda speaking for mollie here, but this is how I see her play regarding it. It makes sense currently for town her to do it. She is a player that dayplay revolves around as is the case for any emotional player. By calling for vigs and nks on her while she is under pressure creates a bunch of wifom if she town as scum generally want her to be alive, and vig is going to be in a wifom-y position where they would normally be keen to kill her, but less so because she asked for it.

That means that it gives her time to play in to the game which an emotionally driven player needs.

Scum mollie does it because it calls vig off her and gives her a reason to live. Because she is effectively calling a bluff that doesn't exist.

I just like the wifom is creates for night play for a bunch of roles. Because it also means that if scum were wanting to kill her to not give her time to play in to the game, doc is more likely to protect her, so it's again an iffy shot.

And I like night wifom when it hampers scum's decision making. Because it generally puts more pressure on day play which is where scum gets caught in my experience.

[Espeonage]

Ok we have 22 hours and idk the vote count so MattP needs to claim within the next few hours or everyone should just condense their votes there.

I was going to move back but I think someone said something about an L-1 so I haven't yet. More to do with my town reads town reading myko and less about mattp's play. But yeah, I'll throw my lot in with intent.

[Espeonage]

@Mollie: Are you 100% cool with dying? bc I am keen on a Star lynch too.

What is the point of a.) making someone a lover then b.) telling us about it. What is fucking town about any of that?

my ckd townread has collapsed

well then vote me.

and while you are at it ANSWER MY FUCKING QUESTIONS.

This is what we call a bait, and it's a bad one at that.

[Espeonage]

:/

I am p unsure as to what to say rn.

1. There is conjecture reasoning that ties me to dead scum from my previous counterpart, that also has a counterpoint brought up by zito.
2. There is then more conjecture based on a null action I took that also has equal parts of for and against in terms of ties to dead scum, both are being read as reasons I am scum.
3. Day ended in the middle of the night for me, so I don't really see how timing of self vote has anything to do with me, as brought up by star.

[Espeonage]

Someone that I've been wanting to read over is Espy, I can go back and look at AJ if anyone is curious about that, but since Espy filled the slot, I'd rather focus on his actions.

- Gets in and automatically asks for mollie to fill him in

What in this is bad? Mollie is a player I trust.

- Names Zito as town, notscience as prob town, and votes for MattP based off of Zito's opinion

Again, this is fine in my book.

He, then, posts this:

Ok so feel free to call me dumb here, but why is mattp seeming to be everyone's go to right now. Like I haven't read so idk the case but given the way everyone is posing it seems kinda easy, you feel me?

As he is voting........for MattP.

Which I feel doesn't go against why I was voting there. Do you want to argue my question and view of the situation is flawed?

- Votes Myko for no reason.

Untrue

Realizes that he is a replacement, and states again that he isn't reading.

- Says he'll ride the game based on gut until it slows down, which means following folks who he has town reads on is going to be it.

Par for the course.

- His take on mollie is null town and Reck is town pool proper.

How do these points count against me?

- Tries to placate mollie from the reck vs her back and forth.

Which is the mature play when I am townreading reck.

- Jumps at me about psychological tells during the recent back and forth between mollie and I. Seems to think that I have a "knows more/is better" attitude that goes with the informed minority. Puts me in the null scum pile based on this ridiculousness.

Ok this is 100% not ridiculousness. It a style of scumreading I have been using for a long time and has decent success, enough for me to still be using it today. Explain how using basic human nature and applying it someone's actions doesn't work.

- Likes Bins' tone (which reminds me that I need to read over her, too), but notscience's trust in people who read them favorably is sitting bad with Espy, re: buddying. I can agree with that to a point.

Then why is this in your case on me?

- Likes working with mollie, even if mollie isn't a town read?

And?

- Involved post in response to me responding about the psychological tells. As someone who hasn't played with me before, I find it very difficult to see how psychological tells play into it.

Are you a member of the human race? If the answer is yes, it applies. If anything, if I did know you there would be less reason to use it.

Thinks I asked him to discount something because I asked him to. Not sure what that was.

I don't really get how being annoying by mollie asking to be nk'd/vigged turned into a need to for Espy to explain mollie's stance. That's the second person now, after CDB (during his back and forth with her), needing to explain her actions but not letting her explain them herself.

It was drawing away from more important things and a mollie with her head screwed on is very beneficial for town if she is town.

Espy is over into my scummy pile.

idgi

responses in bold

[Espeonage]

Right, I am going to wait for Star's response to response because I got the impression while doing those responses that it wasn't all meant as a case and I want to make sure. Either way I think it looks bad, especially taking in to account that this has been done in regards to multiple people.

Can someone for the moment fill me in on exactly what is going on with the AJ on SC stuff that is being used as a case bc atm I don't really understand what I am being lynched for. Kinda interested in the jumps on my wagon from people not in the bloc.

[Espeonage]

I'm just going to do this. Show my intent etc, etc.

Vote: Star

[Espeonage]

I just wanted to nullify it before anyone could use it.

[Espeonage]

pushing on for falling in to the trap

[Espeonage]

dw, if Espe flips scum we'll turbolynch Mollie no problem

her end of day shenanigans were a hoot

While I'd love to support that, she loverized me to her.

Ok so bearing in mind that in this scenario there are already two scum dead. You are against the lynch of someone who I will admit has weird relationals to someone who in the scenario has flipped scum, because you would die too?

Because your maths there is plain wrong and survivalist.

[Espeonage]

dw, if Espe flips scum we'll turbolynch Mollie no problem

her end of day shenanigans were a hoot

While I'd love to support that, she loverized me to her.

Ok so bearing in mind that in this scenario there are already two scum dead. You are against the lynch of someone who I will admit has weird relationals to someone who in the scenario has flipped scum, because you would die too?

Because your maths there is plain wrong and survivalist.

Because I'm town (which y'all won't see until I flip) and to me, right now, it seems she did this out of personal vendetta because we don't get along and not for any strategy, which is really shitty. I'm not responding to anything of hers because it doesn't matter anymore. If she wanted to lose my respect and turn my bitch mode on, she did. Starbuck is not impressed.

And yes, I was opposed to a MattP lynch but when you're town with no other info, you, sometimes, get it wrong. I knew you were going to come back to this shit. I expected to be strung up by this point due to that. I just really didn't feel it on that lynch, so I didn't vote for it.

Bolded has nothing to do with me wanting to lynch you. I was talking about conceeding that mollie and I have relationals should one of us flip scum.

[Espeonage]

I'm not sold on you being town mollie.

[Espeonage]

I'm not being nasty. I'm just not townreading you atm. If it helps I'm not scumreading you either.

[Espeonage]

I will admit that star is a weird target for a scum loveriser. But scum loveriser is believable enough that I can't discount it.

[Espeonage]

On that note, why are you voting me?

[Espeonage]

No. Wait a minute. Obviously poro would't put a jester in. Tell me the truth.

[Espeonage]

Hai peeps. Shaky onlineness atm bc I'm not going to be nocturnal any more because I have jobs and shit now. So I have competition for computer town. Going to try and come to some sort of agreement or find a way to get online more often. But for the est of the week assume I am going to have shaky activity.

[Espeonage]

Ya sorry prodded, been having this on backburner. I think I still need to respond to the star case and comment on dav wagon as a todo list.

[Espeonage]

Ok just a reminder for myself when I do get time. But I have meta of doing what catboi is reading as town from Dav as scum. Its anecdotal, but does show that catboi is not respecting the possible wifom. I still prefer star to Dav despite this but that is mostly due to timing which I will get to.

[Espeonage]

This meta is 2010.

[Espeonage]

It's meta on me, where I did what Dav is doing. And it was 2011 it turns out. But it was in the point where I was dying day 1 every game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=18521

I came in, realised I had a huge wagon on me that had momentum building and figured that my best shot was to try as hard as I could to be stubborn enough that the town would go, there is no way he isn't going to try and defend himself here. (I used to be a p bad player)

My point is that players do tend to try and play the wifom game. I am not saying that Dav is scum here. What I'm trying to say is that your defense of him cat, is based on a flawed premise, and that if that is the main reason you don't think he's scum, then you need to rethink it.

[Espeonage]

That's great, espeonage. I recognize someone can attempt what you did. You were also registered for over a year at that point, and more importantly,

you aren't Davsto

. I don't expect him to have randomly taken a leap as a player to attempt this sort of play. I also don't see a reason why he would think this would work (it usually doesn't).

@mollie:

just the person I wanted to see, actually. I get why you're suspicious of Zito, he's starting to irritate me and I think he adds nothing to this game, BUT I think your suspicion of the scot/Zito dynamic is off, I think the level of buddying you see there is far more likely to come from town/scum and while zito is incredibly frustrating he seems to me more likely of the two to be town.

Of course the buddying there is awful anyway and incredibly harmful to the town so it should be destroyed at the first available opportunity


Anyway I was giving espeonage a reprieve but it looks to me like he's trying to

lurk things out

so I want to lynch him now. I don't think I was worried about anything he said so much as the people voting him and I've sort of lost that concern now.

Incorrect.

[Espeonage]

also should have said this earlier but just remembered it, there's a tendency for town players who who feel they're being unjustlyy suspected to troll, because they want to get back at people for misreading them, and piss them off, or something.

I do not understand that mentality. If anything, trolling is most likely to come from scum who want to make shit harder to sift through for scum.

[Espeonage]

Ya sorry prodded, been having this on backburner. I think I still need to respond to the star case and comment on dav wagon as a todo list.

Oki, one down, one to go.

[Espeonage]

Oh yeah, @Star: What is the point of posting everything someone has done if it doesn't pertain to the case you are trying to make. All it does is fill out your post and make it longer. Take the wall you made on me. The points that are actually anything potentially against me are 3 and 8. I can get behind you using your third dot point. It's relational to a dead scum player, that is fine. However point 8 is part of the back and forth of you not understanding that psyche tells go for everyone and if people are going to be exempt from them it's going to be the people I actually know because I might have prior knowledge of them not adhering with the majority.

That's out of 13 points.

And then I am part of the scum pile? How does that even work? Almost the whole post is just raw information which is construed as being support for a case. Almost all of it doesn't even make up the case. It looks nice. And I remember at least one person saying that the case looked good? What part of it looks good? Is it the length, because that's the only impressive part of it, and it's actually manufactured.

And the worst part of it all, is that this goes for all the reread cases star has done. She has fluffed up posts with stuff that in no way pertains to the case and thinks that makes things look legit. I haven't pulled apart the bins case but if I can be fucked I might, just the show how little there actually is in what Star is using to call people scum.

[Espeonage]

@mollie: I feel like the mentality is potentially similar. My line in it's entirety is that cat should respect the possibility for wifom.

[Espeonage]

Oh yeah, the reason I think if star is gonna happen, it should happen soon.

Lovers can prove volatile when discussing lynch numbers and such. It will need to happen some time before mylo. And it's all well and good in saying that yeah we'll get it done before then, but it also creates a situation that is seen time and time again where people let things coast and then we're left with a situation where I flip is widely agreed upon and will be useful, but they can't be lynched because there are known lovers about that scum can potentially kill (if they are both town) or be left, and then need to be left until last as killing one then fucks with the numbers.

Which means we get forced in to a lynch we might not want at that point but have to do.

[Espeonage]

and actually

espy do you think star and I are scum together? cos you implied that earlier when you said that you were not sure about me

No, but I didn't want to discount the potential of a compulsive mafia loveriser in a situation where you are town. But I did also say star is the weirdest choice ever in this situation.

And as to the earlier comment. I'm not a fresh replacee any more.

[Espeonage]

Sorry 'you are' should be 'star is'.

[Espeonage]

dear espy,

plz do some more things. like that
readslist I asked for.

love,

mollie

Soz, you aren't getting a readlist. But I will say that I am reserving a read on dav until I can look at wagon build and composition as there were flops from slots that shouldn't be inclined to be flopping.

Reck is still town, you are likely town from the star choice. Most of the playerlist I don't have reads on bc I just haven't done it. You probably expect that though. I don't see what's wrong with zito tbh. Bloc'ing seems to be a natural move after how well Oldies mafia went which just finished, so that's a read that exists.

I'm not going to hide reads tho, so if I have a read it'll come out without you having to ask.

[Espeonage]

I could point to my history of being correct on reck onsite, but that's petty and you and I both know I hate that shit when I have some grounding on the person in question.

And it's a tonal read. And I really don't think my evidence is going to sway you bc it's all fromt he argument you two had late day 1. He reads in that exchange with a genuineness that is absent from his scum game. I've never found trying to read him outside of tone to ever be useful either way. Which has been historically true for our interactions over the years and so I am confident in my read on him. He is my number 1 town read and is way above anyone else in the game at the moment in townness in my eyes.

[Espeonage]

I could point to my history of being correct on reck onsite, but that's petty and you and I both know I hate that shit when I have some grounding on the person in question.

And it's a tonal read. And I really don't think my evidence is going to sway you bc it's all fromt he argument you two had late day 1. He reads in that exchange with a genuineness that is absent from his scum game. I've never found trying to read him outside of tone to ever be useful either way. Which has been historically true for our interactions over the years and so I am confident in my read on him. He is my number 1 town read and is way above anyone else in the game at the moment in townness in my eyes.

newsflash!

reck can fake genuineness as scum!

I want to hear cdb's take on those quotes I posted. and you are not even remotely paying attention to the game if you think I am only scumreading zito for townblocking I townbloc all of the time and you acting like I don't is pretty sus.

if you are going to be utterly useless and try to beetlejuice your way through game I am fine with going back to voting you.

Sorry, I am allowed to have reasoning for my own read on zito. And nah, reck fakes, but he fakes badly. And you can see through it. It's reck's weakness, and I am personally glad he hasn't taken lessons from zmuff, bc that's like the only limit to his game.

[Espeonage]

I've been inactive in games sitewide recently so dropping in before I catchup bc no time (first day at new job today ahhhhhhhh) to say, if you're going to wagon me, get on with it because I've got claiming to do if it gets to it and there ain't much time left in the day.

[Espeonage]

So L-2 with someone having stated universal intent so not going to take my chances.

I am an investigative role. I crumbed my result in a fairly standard way that I can highlight if really needed. But I think it's pretty damn clear who I targeted.

@scot: Please, please explain what was even halfway decent about star's case on me. This isn't the first time you've touted your belief in it. And it has been proven as an incredibly thin case. So please, go in to detail about why it is such amazing, or admit that it was just the Aj stuff. Thanks. This is relevant because star is getting away with shithousing work and you're enabling it. At least Dav is giving something for emotional readers to potentially glean something off. A paper thin saving grace I'll admit, but it's more than star is giving anyone.

[Espeonage]

You aren't even voting me.


I might be back on later tonight bc no doubt I'll be woken up bc someone 'glares at roommate' has graveyard shift. But no promises.

[Espeonage]

Oh and my target wasn't star if people are bloody dumb. I would have claimed shit like that, not crumbed it.

[Espeonage]

R

ight, I am going to wait for Star's response to response because I got the impression while doing those responses that it wasn't all meant as a case and I want to make sure.

E

ither way I think it looks bad, especially taking in to account that this has been done in regards to multiple people.

C

an someone for the moment fill me in on exactly what is going on with the AJ on SC stuff that is being used as a case bc atm I don't really understand what I am being lynched for.

K

inda interested in the jumps on my wagon from people not in the bloc.

I

'm just going to do this.

S

how my intent etc, etc.

Vote: Star

N

o.

W

ait a minute.

O

bviously poro would't put a jester in.

T

ell me the truth.

Was dat spell?

Reck is town.

That's all y'all need to know.

[Espeonage]

I never said it was obvi. I said it was p standard. -.-

[Espeonage]

Ok Zito's concerns are real and make a lot of sense and I have no refutation for them because they are all things that are real. I was hoping to draw kill. But I'm a Hider.

[Espeonage]

No, bc it was always my plan to claim cop when I forced to claim if I lived so I could draw NK which I believe is optimal play.

I realised I never git a chance to crumb a target yesterday which meant I had do go something p safe last night.

[Espeonage]

I feel like releasing the scum PT might make me look better. So I'm cool with it.

Not that there's anything in it.

[Espeonage]

One of the very few who didn't think Reck was SK. Was correct.

Sorry I was obtuse Mollie, was trying to do my job.