Prozac's Basic Theme 4 - Murder in Marlowe - OVER!

[Marquis]

this is the part where if i was a bored vt i'd fakeclaim something scandalous but it's 2015 and i'm fresh so

VOTE: reck

[Marquis]

VOTE: SC go on...

[Marquis]

VOTE: reck

i want to talk about RVS wagons

how high should they go? how long should they stay?

i personally enjoy them quite a bit but now i'm also bored by this attempt to get conversation going and just want to do it

[Marquis]

what makes you think this is an RVS wagon

i feel like in accordance with my resolution to be useful this game i should probably ask you why it isn't

buttttt

VOTE: SC

you're weird and maybe scum

[Marquis]

i'd rather discuss your side of those interactions

they're weird

[Marquis]

notty is probably town i guess.

sigh. if this is going to bite me in the ass i'd rather it happened now than later

[Marquis]

Spoiler: spiffeh's 5 posts in iso

VOTE: Reck yay wagons!!

@Marquis you played like half of Day 1 of a game on Smogon a long time ago right?

ChannelDelibird why don't you like the Reck wagon?

Us after '10 joiners needs to stick together if we want to live!!!!

Dav come join your brethren on the Reck wagon we have cookies.

I am fairly certain Davsto is town.

AJ is a little TOO overboard with the trolling so he could be scum.

I still like wagons though so I'm not leaving this one.

I get a gut feeling when I read your posts.

And you questioning my read rather than accepting it makes that much more confident!

(As confident as I can be on page three)

VOTE: spiffeh

this is fairly awful reasoning in theory but like. this really doesn't strike me as a town game entrance. it's really enthusiastic and all "!!!" and stuff, which yeah can be town, but it just

feels

more like new-to-this-environment scum than town, primarily due to the much greater game investment that scum has at gamestart than town does

now go on, attack me for that

[Marquis]

notty, i know this is going to sound exactly like the wishywashy "fear" stance i always used to make on you as scum

but i really don't want to misread you even though everything you've posted so far makes me super strongly think you're town

[Marquis]

i really do think you're scum

as for your question idk

pedit @ notty: i think you having townreads and the way you're announcing them makes you a relatively safe townlean for now

[Marquis]

ftr i have a stronger scumread on coug by far but i don't expect anyone to follow on that

[Marquis]

Actually how do you read my ISO thoroughly enough to scum read me and conclude that I'm "new to this environment" or whatever but miss my question that implies I have played mafia for at least long enough to have played with you elsewhere "a long time ago"?

Marquis can you respond to this?

of course i saw your question. it's like your first post. i just didn't particularly want to answer it.

and i know you're an experienced player. the "new to this environment" thing was in reference to being new to mafiascum and eager to show your worth.

skimming reck's thing i'm pretty null-feeling on what alignment it means you are though.

pedit VOTE: scoug woo

a lot of it is because coug feels awfully swoopy

swoop

[Marquis]

i saw kinda the same shit you did but then I read post 60 again and it actually seems kinda town? It seems like he's trying to form opinions even if they're bad ones

in case i didn't mention it earlier, yeah that was the post in his (spiffeh's) iso i was having the most trouble reconciling my scumread on him with. it felt a lot like the kind of town post i would make in a similar situation

looking at it on its own makes a townlean but then the posts/iso as a whole give me a scumlean on him. and with coug being up and coming now, i'm willing to just set it aside for future review eventually

[Marquis]

catboi is town.
blackberry likely town.
spiffeh could be town. (reread post 60 for the 3rd time in context and i'm liking it a lot more, even more than i liked it reading it the 2nd time)
notscience could be town.
i want to believe nexus is town. this is a townread on him with shoddy mysterious feels.

this is a cumulative townread list covering everything i've read so far, not just a result of recent posting.

for page 6 it's actually really disappointing.

also while i can i'm at it i'm going to shortly mention how i disliked aj's 24 ("oh no my scumpartner" post). i'd rather not go in-depth into it or drag it out because the tell is unreliable but well. i just wanted to mention it FOR THE RECORD. kk

[Marquis]

Catboi trying real hard to make my vote contested.

let's talk about that

because there's a whole lot of sketchiness in this thread right now

and it seems ridiculous that you're attributing some of it to the second-most obvtown player here

[Marquis]

i don't see catboi as scum being so obstinate in early-game about whatever "tell" it was he was using, or purposefully aggravating people, specifically in interactions with flameaxe (ISO). the brush-offs read more like town who doesn't really care about how their reads present to others, but rather cares about figuring or working things out for his own benefit. i saw multiple displays of that kind of mindset throughout his early posting/iso, and it's a strong indicator of town to me.

as for my blackberry townread, while that kind of circular rambling (94) is really easy to do as scum (it's pretty much my go-to method for scumplay), right now i'm at the point where i feel comfortable ignoring the WIFOM and going by the odds - that his blatant self-awareness is more likely town than scum

i'll check up on the recent spiffeh and coug interactions in a bit.

i feel like the more i get a sense of who coug is, though, the more i find myself willing to attribute my earlier suspicion to him just being a... Serious Person. but again, want to review things in more context.

also, sorry i've been avoiding the thread for... two days? i've been fairly active and had multiple chances to do shit but honestly flameaxe's "functionally moronic" comment got to me and it keeps running through my head. (in case anyone couldn't tell, i'm trying to adopt an open+honest mindset for this mafia game, even if it turns out looking bad or kind of embarrassing for me.

for the record, i'd probably say i was doing this if i was scum, too, but whatever it's happening)

[Marquis]

unvote, vote Marquis

why? my old man gutty gut.

not a good enough answer?

lots of town reads he wants to share for no reason.

stretchy case on Spiff....but it is day 1..everything is stretchy.

and...I wouldnt be surprised if that vote on Spiff was theater (what exactly changed to remove said stretchy case vote?)....which also makes me wonder about Spiff.

I am surprised I am the first vote here...hmmmmm

one of these people on the Coug wagon tell me what this wagon on Coug is about?....thinking am missing it.

almost forgot to address this! because i think it's pretty ridiculous!

i don't really like how you're bringing up me wanting to share my reads as if that's in any way something that scum do more than town.

i don't like how you're trying to throw out extremely stretchy associatives between me and spiffeh on page 7, after you've criticized my own stretchy case (+ i did nothing to hide how obviously weak it was, even bringing it up myself - i shared it because i wanted to get my suspicions out in the open and see if anyone else was seeing what i was, which reck sort of addressed)

i also really dislike the way the last thoughts you're throwing out are half-baked. yes, i'm doing that too to an extent, but the way you're presenting your opinions of me and my interactions with spiffeh - well that's just it, there's no real attempted analysis or stance you're taking there. you're just giving a vaguely negative portrayal of me and leaving it to other people to potentially fill in the blanks for you, which i find scummy as heck.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

and now that i've done that, this feels better than the coug wagon right now too.

[Marquis]

VOTE: coug

1) mollie is a townlean
2) mollie is convincing me to rejoin the wagon
3) ckd is starting to become a reluctant townlean. i think i might just have a problem with him/his play expectations being old and stodgy and stuff. this is what i felt about coug earlier, but ckd's first response to my vote back in my face felt pretty... okay and even then it's stronger than i thought for coug
4) i'll address the question when i get back to a comp later
5) yes i fully expect backlash for my blatant ~bandwagoning~

pedit @notty: nah don't

pedit2 @mollie: zito's original push on reck was absolutely manufactured and i thought everyone was just going along for the fun of it. not sure what you mean unless you're saying the fact that he even did that is sketchy. taking that "shenanigans" quote in mind i'm following your thoughts there too since it does look kind of tryhardy/excus..ive for trolling.

[Marquis]

also noting that this game so far feels like it's had/will continue to have a lot of playstyle clashing, especially with the playerlist, and it's kind of frustrating because one second a player will ping so hard for me, then say something that when i take their viewpoint into mind seems to show a fairly reasonable thought progression.

so far for me this has happened with coug on a minor level, and then ckd more strongly.

this isn't me trying to excuse my wishywashy reads because of that... but it also kind of is. huh. oh well

[Marquis]

at least my townreads-that-started-as-townreads are still happy and stable! maybe i'll work off of that and it'll be limited PoE like old times again.

[Marquis]

on catboi, @ mollie:

i don't see catboi as scum being so obstinate in early-game about whatever "tell" it was he was using, or purposefully aggravating people, specifically in interactions with flameaxe (ISO). the brush-offs read more like town who doesn't really care about how their reads present to others, but rather cares about figuring or working things out for his own benefit. i saw multiple displays of that kind of mindset throughout his early posting/iso, and it's a strong indicator of town to me.

+ everything he posts, especially "in the moment" of him posting it feels especially open and unreserved, including when he's actually sharing opinions and reads.

not to mention he's sharing reads/interactions on a whole range of players unprompted. i really doubt he's scum afraid of making any bad-looking associatives.

also i realized earlier that this playerlist might not take kindly to simpler comments on player tone and stuff which is why it's been so hard for me to word this coherently.

(minor, more flaky, point: i doubt he's at the point in his mafia career where he would feel confident enough as scum to play as uninhibited as this, without taking more time to double check himself or make his shorter posts sound less objectively off-putting, as newer scum are apt to do)

i realize i still need to address stuff to and about spiffeh, which i've been putting off. when i get on a comp and can tab to recheck things i'll do that.

pedit: ...ohhhkay i really need to do spiffeh soon. :/

[Marquis]

UNVOTE:

i'm not comfortable with bins rn, much less bins' position here

gimme a bit to settle in. reminder to self to check spiffeh first though

[Marquis]

self reminder that ckd things exist too

[Marquis]

lol that's dumb

[Marquis]

Spoiler: starbuck's post 404

Starting at the top of Page 11...

Why am I not surprised at Marquis' swap to the SC wagon in #251? This guy just really seems to want a lynch, any lynch.

My gut is telling me that there's some kind of link between mollie and Marquis.

I'm also concerned with Marquis' statements that include "I'd probably say this if I was scum" and "this isn't me trying to excuse my wishywashy reads." It just doesn't sit right with me.



You know in the majority of all this back and forth, there's a severe lack of Reck.

I have zero qualms with Davsto votes. I like scoug more but this is some questionable inactivity from dav

Why do you like the votes? Just because of his inactivity? That's kinda shady.

Why is everyone dropping town reads? Thought this was an experienced group. It does us NO GOOD to do this. IF you really thought someone was town, telling everyone is good play becasue? It is like painting a fucking target. So why do it without anyone asking? I find, that scum do it a lot. Way of making friends…oh look..and you got 7 town reads based on jack shit. Welcome to my scum read.

This has been a question of mine, as well. I've already asked my question about it in a previous catch up post, so hopefully someone answered it between then and now. I don't see the point to do it as town.


So it takes bins' vote of SC to get Marquis to unvote SC. Interesting.

Are you high on turkey or something? You just made a stink about how you read the game and this major life event culminated in an SC vote. I'm asking why it ended in an SC vote vs all the other eligible bachelors/bachelorettes/attack helicopters we have ITT. And I'm getting back chinese fortune cookies for answers.

Ahh, this made me laugh pretty damn hard. I've missed you, Zito.

p-edit great googly moogly is this english

Not to insult anyone, but part of how long my catch up is taking is deciphering what others are trying to say.

@ ckd and starbuck

I think that what we are experiencing here is a bit of a site meta/join date/playstyle clash. marquis pointed this out earlier. 1 of the things that have changed is that pple are more fluid with their reads and are more likely to work with their townreads earlier in the game. both notty and marquis (and me, I just feel like I got lucky and hit the jackpot with sc, egg on my face if I am wrong) but i usually work from the townside out, which means I try to find town first and go from there. that is what they both normally do, so what they are doing is not unusual nor is it scummy, it just might be different from how you play, idk, I am just going off of what you guys have posted so far but there seems to be a bit of a whirlpool of misunderstanding going on. i know you both know this but different /=scummy. for some strange reason I felt like it needed to be said.

I don't necessarily feel that it's playstyle because it's coming off as forced to me. I could concede to playstyle differences if that factor wasn't there.

Trust me, I know that different does not equal scummy. I used to play on the View Askew board when that was in existence, and still play a game on Mafiastache every now and again. The playstyles between those two boards and MS are EXTREMELY different, especially since one real day = one game day in any of the ones that we play over there. So what I'm saying is, from the get go of me joining the original VA board in early 2009 and then joining over here later on in that year, I've been needing to adjust my playstyle depending on which message board that I am playing on.

In this case, it doesn't feel like a playstyle difference to me and the fact that you would try to display it as otherwise is suspect to me, and this subtle whiteknighting just adds to my feeling of some kind of connection between you and Marquis. I, truly, feel that (at least in the case of Marquis right now) that needing to talk about who is town, rather than who is scum, is forced and is a way for him to add content to the game without much substance.


Ending at the bottom of Page 14

on my play, @starbuck's 404 (i wrote this section second):

i like narrowing down the lynch pool by removing bad lynches. i don't like starting with blank lynchpools where players are thrown in because a few people find them scummy, even more so in games shaping out like this.

it's mostly because i see mafia as a game where everyone has a lot of bad scumreads early on. in contrast, town are inherently easier to find, and when town say or do things that are undeniably+genuinely town it's a lot easier to see. and molding my game around my townreads is usually how i perform the best, rather than centering in on a multitude of likely-inaccurate scumreads which will cause me to ignore more potentially important things

basically there's so many scummy-looking things town can do even just because you don't share the same point of view as them, but imo when players genuinely try to figure out the game or give uninhibited play, it's less likely they're scum with the capability of faking those kinds of town thought processes in the moment

i don't like talking about my "mafia philosophy" because it takes me an insane amount of time to try and word it in a way that's both
a) understandable to others, especially older or more "proper" players, and
b) less likely to make people laugh at me for being naive or dumb.

i really don't want to have to explain that in so many words again.

---

@end of starbuck's 404 (i wrote this section first, in like a minute after my previous post as an immediate reaction to the last quoteblock):

your last wordchunk pretty much amounts to "it's definitely just not a playstyle thing!" followed by "trying to solve the game starting with town is unnatural and what scum do!"

solving through townhunting, PoE, etc. is fairly common, and has been for as long as i remember on the site. call my townreads naive or whatever, i'm trying to get my bloc going.

it's getting to the point where you're just denying, denying, denying both {how anything mollie says could be right, how anything i say can't be scummy} so ~absolutely certainly~ that it's like, my ass is jammed on the fence between "she's scum trying to make this look like town with a genuine playstyle clash" and "she's actually town whose head is stuck in the ground because she's refusing to accept that she could be wrong about The Times a-Changin'!".

currently i'm leaning the former scenario (which is dumb because i'm now realizing i keep dragging myself into scumreads like this when i just want to revert back to my more successful PoE-oriented play), but it's so sad/ridiculous that i almost just want to close my eyes and throw you into a "don't even bother trying to sort" pile instead for my own sanity

also for everyone's sake you should probably stop anyway because i'm probably not getting lynched any time soon. people who've played with me before, whether or not they think i'm on point, should know well enough that this can't be anything other than my towngame

good night yall. will have my laptop after classes tomorrow

[Marquis]

i probably could have formatted that better. i hate walls and i know that's particularly hard to read. i'm working on it.

[Marquis]

for the record, i've been reading spiffeh's posts that've been popping up as i've been continuously saying that i need to read spiffeh (lol) and i'm maybe... 10% into him being town now? definitely not on the scum side of the spectrum atm, at least. nothing i'd bet on at all tho, and i still do want to reread his old stuff in context again

i've also just noticed starbuck keeps making post after post (like at least 5 of them on me by now) about how things i'm doing look "forced" or "concerning" or how they "just don't sit right with me" yet hasn't even voted me yet. not sure how to feel about that.

gnight for real now. vv

[Marquis]

spiffeh is definitely town thank god

and no it's not because he's defending mollie

[Marquis]

realizing this game would be such an easy scumgame to play :( so many potential cop-outs or angry things to hide behind

crashing. words later

[Marquis]

going to prod dodge because this game exploded and i cba to even try and remember where i left off

[Marquis]

why did you vote me

you said they weren't real votes

[Marquis]

my point was he is active on site...in a game he is modding AND others. But why not active here?

first of all, i'm a bit pressed for free time at the moment and like i said in my prod dodge this game exploded and i don't even know where to begin again.

and apart from that, when i'm here everything goes into the game(s) i'm running. votecounts, finding replacements, whatever. any leftover time or energy then goes to the games i'm playing in, but right now it's not much. i am simply not going to put as much time into playing here as i do into making sure my game isn't a shitshow (ftr, i'm throwing some well deserved yet very vague shade right now) and i'm kind of annoyed you expect my attention here to be as always-on as it is there.

sorry, that was a bit more wordy than i intended to be here tonight. i need to sleep for once. but you just had to make the most clueless/irritating post i've seen yet this game, congrats

[Marquis]

ckd is town, btw. 894.

go on, get annoyed

[Marquis]

Marq, in your next post I want your top 3 scum suspects and why.

no thanks. if you were actually more than just surface-reading my pre-absence posts, i wouldn't have to explain now that that just doesn't work for me at this stage of the game, and finding townreads to narrow things down first does for me and quite a few others here. (also somebody posted this little gem in GD recently and i liked it/think it applies here, too - "when everyone around you is an asshole, you're the asshole" - but just regarding your angry stomping around about people having townreads)

i noticed you mentioned this in some other post on an earlier page, too: you don't want townreads to be declared so that scum don't know who to kill. and i think that's way too reactionary. common townreads are potential targets, sure, as they always have been. but i think having groups of predominantly town/actively town-motivated players to try and play thoughts off of and trying to find where we sync is more valuable.

imo mafia's nightkills aren't so much of a threat and have more potentially rewarding targets reads- or PR-wise (mafia please ignore that line so we can have a nice happy as-to-be-expected-with-no-offhand-comment-induced-WIFOM NKA game), and it's not like mafia won't have a good enough idea of who isn't very lynchable (based on townreads) without people trying to sort townreads out in the open, anyway.

typing this response made me realize it's around the time where i should probably put together a rough nolynch list. or maybe a reads list after all, and you'll actually get what you asked for. whatever. some kind of list. i'm getting antsy and wanna sort soon.

[Marquis]

I'm not sure what the towntell is that I'm supposed to be seeing there

well first off his 894 reads as completely genuine.

genuineness isn't exactly a town tell/concrete action you can definitely detect. but the pattern of his thought process in previous posts i've skimmed through and then going from 894 into 895 is not only consistent, but i feel like anyone should be able to see how his mind is totally in a

"i don't understand why these people are playing the way they are, so much so that to me it's as if they're not even trying to solve the game like i am!!!"

sort of state. it feels most prominent with his consistent requests for people to stop giving townreads.

no matter how much i disagree with him, i don't think scum would exhibit such a strong, blatant sense of indignation with the way people are choosing to play the game. like, he's not even that relatively concerned about what people's reads

are

as scum are, not when compared to how damn pouty he is about people not doing things the right way. and i really don't think a scum!ckd, with his kind of old-style mafia background, allows himself to spend so much time griping about improper play (regardless of alignment i think he believes the whole don't-say-townreads-or-mafia-will-kill-them thing too and would appreciate those actions a bit more as scum).



also lastly he's publically whatthefuck-ing so hard at people recognizing me as obvtown that trying to think of him as anything other than washed-up town genuinely not understanding how people can have such different opinions on his strongest scumread just seems wrong. and in some way i can't help but feel bad.

[Marquis]

pessimistic mafia opinion of the night: explaining my read in ways understandable to people who actually ask for "evidence" won't help since right now the people i'm trying to convince mostly either scumread me, trust nobody's ability to form reads besides themselves much less this New Age child, or etc. etc.

right now until there's a flip i'm going to treat this as mostly a feels game. if anything, it's confirmed associatives that are def worth explaining.

[Marquis]

I'm not sure what the towntell is that I'm supposed to be seeing there

i should probably be conftown now because if i were scum i'd probably have taken an hour in between each of those posts to proofread them for potential scumslip paranoia or inconsistencies with the rest of my iso. that was less than 30 minutes overall. which is nothing special. but still feels good to be getting back into the groove.

[Marquis]

didn't mean to quote that above.

so i don't waste the post i'm kind of interested in seeing starbuck's strongest townreads. i really expected at first that if i'd see one of those two (starbuck & ckd) as town it'd be starbuck - not sure why, maybe i just respected them as a player/person behind all the disagreement and just really hoped they'd be town? but right now i have absolutely no idea how to feel there, in the sense that i'm still stuck on that fence between two layers of an-unfamiliar-experienced-player-who-could-be-scum WIFOM.

(no, that was not just an unsubtle attempt to butter you up. pls tell the class what you've learned)

[Marquis]

why do you want hers and ckd's townreads when that isn't how they play?

this is a good point... but, war reparations

[Marquis]

actually i don't know if you're town anymore mollie and i'm scared of that. i revisited the reasons for your scummy nomination and i'm. ugh

ckd
notty
spiffeh
catboi

is my concrete bloc atm.

also, as a fan of egosearching:

ow sc's opening posts are bad.

marquis ++ (thumbsup)

spiffeh no

cdb your vote on mollie is bad

currently don't like notscience

ckd do u liek 2 buddy?

i like blackberry

marquis ++++++++++
i don't like catboi's posts as i already said so i can see his spiffeh vote as a scumbuddyvote

spiffeh only caring about 1 thing is bad

NOTSCIENCE FUCK OFF

literlaly notscience is telling people to do things or die but has done fuck all imo

catboi on the SC wagon - HEY I HAVE OPINIONS BUT NOT REALLY SRY

srsly the catboixspiffeh reactions seem really forced

i still think notscience is worst, actually

vote notscience

also suspish of catboi and spiffeh. ONLY AT P13 THOUGH.

Gotta go make dinner bbiab

why am i here twice and super strongly "+++++++++++++++++++++++++"

ckd is currently ++

I think Davsto is frustrated town who can't get a handle on it - i know that feel.

town - davsto, ckd, mattp, reck

scum - notscience, spiffeh, catboi

everyone else i am RUMINATING <-good word on whilst stuffing my fat face.

caught up:

town - ckd, mattp (he is much better than sc and i don't think replace out is suspish - been burned by that before), reck, zzito
probtown - aj, bbm
mid - others (i can't read cdb for shit so don't wait for my read on him)
maybscum - mollie i guess if i'm following reck?
scum - notscience, spiffeh, catboi

but not in either of these :(

how do you forget me :(

back then i was not only super town but also super imposing :(

how :(((

[Marquis]

you know what's funny? i really didn't like scoug's posts but then i was able to reason with myself that it was just because scoug was an awkward/serious person. but then matt started posting and at least like half the time i saw one of his posts i really didn't like it. i keep thinking "that's such an easy scum towncred reclamation post." or whatever

i think that is a bit funny.

VOTE: matt

[Marquis]

[Marquis]

@catboi i am of the firm belief that when it comes to people forming these kinds of reads like scum!ckd wouldn't be a whiny bitch. he'd be a subtle bitch.

[Marquis]

not to mention i believe he also genuinely wants to know peoples' reasons for reads, including townreads on him, over and over and over again. scum could give less fucks as long as they have a good idea of where they stand (which ckd keeps trying to stifle related discussion about and i also don't think scum!ckd actively chooses to shoot himself in the foot like this over and over and over again for only minimal towncred)

[Marquis]

(well, minimal towncred and a buttload of irritated baby-faced scummers)

[Marquis]

not to mention i believe he also genuinely wants to know peoples' reasons for reads, including townreads on him, over and over and over again. scum could give less fucks as long as they have a good idea of where they stand (which ckd keeps trying to stifle related discussion about and i also don't think scum!ckd actively chooses to shoot himself in the foot like this over and over and over again for only minimal towncred)

if you are not scum, you and I can have a long convo (with mollie) about this endgame. no doubt if you are scum, you will come back with, "yeah I was scum, but..blah blah blah"...bottom line? I caught you using "old school" scum hunting. but lets be clear...THIS isnt the only reason you have my vote right now.

what is even the point of trying to explain anything to you

[Marquis]

i'm orienting my game around TOWNREADS that doesn't mean i've sworn off BASIC MAFIA THEORY like what. the. fuck

[Marquis]

Marquis was prodded.

Agreed.

[Marquis]

thinking back to early game i can vey easily see scumreck

[Marquis]

i dislike literally every one of ckd's posts

notty is very very town right now. it looks like ppl are getting annoyed with him for being here and not playing to their exact expectations, when there's a whole bunch of people not here and/or trying to figure/work things out like he is (see: reck, matt)

speaking of reck. i've been seeing him responding to things and defending himself from mollie but it's like. reading his ISO i get no sense of his actual scumhunting thought process, or a sense that he's actually trying to work things out. i see a reads list, but no buildup to that besides various thrown out "i agree with"s, blank reads with no followup, and bland mafia theory platitudes that any scum could point out

also i'm kind of hung up on thinking his early 108 to me was sort of buddying because. well it felt reach-out-y in a way i didn't expect from reck. lame but yeah it just feels weird/out of place

i understand people can see this description as similar to how i've been playing but i'd like to think that i've been able to show by now that i'm trying to think this through, consciously or not. but with reck's posts i don't get any sense of him trying to solve things or actually thinking through reads, in part because the only content of his that seems charged at all is his argument with mollie. and even then there's only one post in the middle of it, an explanation to mattp, that reiterates his mollie scumread. everything else is all like... mollie-shaming and angry "shut up you're dumb"-like rebuttals.

and actually i don't know how to feel about reck now after trying to parse that because i'm not sure what of this is his personality and what's actually indicative of him, specifically, being scum. will reread past reck games i guess sigh

[Marquis]

that's not how motivation analysis works tho ckd

[Marquis]

Also I agree with Marquis ckd is not as town as I thought.

that's not what i meant but i can see how it sounds like it.

i still think ckd is town. but it's at the point where i think he's stuck so much in his perspective that that's part of what's cementing the read now - i actually think a scum!ckd would have given in a little at least somewhere. his lack of understanding/perspective shifting seems genuine, and it's completely off-putting to me on an opinion basis but like. i still think it's coming from town.

think traditional townplay and traditional scumplay caricatures and that's my impression of ckd on all angles

[Marquis]

right now i really want to think zito is town for his recent general just-move-on-with-the-game stance. but i'm struggling because i'm not sure how much of that townread is rooted in how i like his lax personality when mixed with that - makes me initially think he's calm and town, but then i remember he's fairly experienced and what i'm seeing isn't exactly significantly more likely to come from town.

i do think i'm at the point where i'm struggling for explicit townreads to add to my group, which probably means it's time to try and sort the rest.

[Marquis]

What the hell is motivation analysis?

maybe i was buzzwording again. i like to do that sometimes

basically i thought it was that spiffeh admitting his error on a major case he's pushed and retracting it could be grounds for a townread for some people, while ckd bringing it up in the first place isn't exactly alignment-indicative with neither of notty/spiffeh's alignments known right now

when i take into account ckd's scumread on notscience in spite of that, though, then -that- strengthens my ckd townread.

[Marquis]

Marquis can you refresh my memory on who your town reads are again?

thanks for asking actually, it's been a while and this reminded me that i do have the time to at the very least sort a minimal-detail readslist

DEFINITELY TOWN

17. marquis
10. notscience
11. curiouskarmadog

TOWN

15. spiffeh
12. catboi

TOWN FOR TODAY (WON'T BOTHER CONSIDERING LYNCHING, BARRING MAJOR GAMESTATE THINGS)

4. pirate mollie
7. Davsto - literally just because fuck yall i'm not dealing with the whole potential "lynch what we don't understand" thing that might be going through the subconscious of some town players
13. Papa Zito
14. Starbuck -
18. Bins

NOT SURE, OR EFFECTIVELY NULL

1. Flameaxe - non-alignment indicative, but distracting, dickishness
2. mykonian replacing Blackberry - want to note that i liked BB's, like, one post? but then myko came in and honestly i haven't been attempting to read him much but i'll admit that mollie's scumread here makes me oddly tense, however irrational that is considering i don't even know for sure about my mollie read anymore
9. Nexus - ...i had thoughts on this slot. reminder to ISO again because i forget, but i definitely had -something- on this

TO BE SORTED, OR ACTUALLY NULL SO FAR

5. ChannelDelibird
8. AJ the Epic (i think this was replaced - help??)
16. scotmany12

MIGHT BE SCUM?? IDK IT'S RECK BUT MAYBE I GAVE HIM TOO MUCH FOCUS BECAUSE I DIDN'T EXPECT THE BUDDYING

6. xRECKONERx

I SCUMREAD BOTH PLAYERS IN THIS SLOT LIKE WHOA

3. MattP replacing StrangerCoug

if you have issues with my category division, this isn't meant to impress everyone. this is actually just me trying to keep my own record of in-the-moment opinions because it's been a while since i've really sunk my teeth into this.

[Marquis]

Marquis can you refresh my memory on who your town reads are again?

thanks for asking actually, it's been a while and this reminded me that i do have the time to at the very least sort a minimal-detail readslist

DEFINITELY TOWN

17. marquis
10. notscience
11. curiouskarmadog

TOWN

15. spiffeh
12. catboi

TOWN FOR TODAY (WON'T BOTHER CONSIDERING LYNCHING, BARRING MAJOR GAMESTATE THINGS)

4. pirate mollie
7. Davsto - literally just because fuck yall i'm not dealing with the whole potential "lynch what we don't understand" thing that might be going through the subconscious of some town players
13. Papa Zito
14. Starbuck -
18. Bins

NOT SURE, OR EFFECTIVELY NULL

1. Flameaxe - non-alignment indicative, but distracting, dickishness
2. mykonian replacing Blackberry - want to note that i liked BB's, like, one post? but then myko came in and honestly i haven't been attempting to read him much but i'll admit that mollie's scumread here makes me oddly tense, however irrational that is considering i don't even know for sure about my mollie read anymore
9. Nexus - ...i had thoughts on this slot. reminder to ISO again because i forget, but i definitely had -something- on this

TO BE SORTED, OR ACTUALLY NULL SO FAR

5. ChannelDelibird
8. AJ the Epic (i think this was replaced - help??)
16. scotmany12

MIGHT BE SCUM?? IDK IT'S RECK BUT MAYBE I GAVE HIM TOO MUCH FOCUS BECAUSE I DIDN'T EXPECT THE BUDDYING

6. xRECKONERx

I SCUMREAD BOTH PLAYERS IN THIS SLOT LIKE WHOA

3. MattP replacing StrangerCoug

if you have issues with my category division, this isn't meant to impress everyone. this is actually just me trying to keep my own record of in-the-moment opinions because it's been a while since i've really sunk my teeth into this.

actually, move myko up to "town for today". i liked blackberry enough to not want to deal with too much of that right now. gotta limit this now too

[Marquis]

pretty sure this being prozac's game means not multiball

sk at the most

[Marquis]

Spoiler: reck making a dumb

why do you want hers and ckd's townreads when that isn't how they play?

this is a good point... but, war reparations

actually i don't know if you're town anymore mollie and i'm scared of that. i revisited the reasons for your scummy nomination and i'm. ugh

ckd
notty
spiffeh
catboi

is my concrete bloc atm.

also, as a fan of egosearching:

ow sc's opening posts are bad.

marquis ++ (thumbsup)

spiffeh no

cdb your vote on mollie is bad

currently don't like notscience

ckd do u liek 2 buddy?

i like blackberry

marquis ++++++++++
i don't like catboi's posts as i already said so i can see his spiffeh vote as a scumbuddyvote

spiffeh only caring about 1 thing is bad

NOTSCIENCE FUCK OFF

literlaly notscience is telling people to do things or die but has done fuck all imo

catboi on the SC wagon - HEY I HAVE OPINIONS BUT NOT REALLY SRY

srsly the catboixspiffeh reactions seem really forced

i still think notscience is worst, actually

vote notscience

also suspish of catboi and spiffeh. ONLY AT P13 THOUGH.

Gotta go make dinner bbiab

why am i here twice and super strongly "+++++++++++++++++++++++++"

ckd is currently ++

I think Davsto is frustrated town who can't get a handle on it - i know that feel.

town - davsto, ckd, mattp, reck

scum - notscience, spiffeh, catboi

everyone else i am RUMINATING <-good word on whilst stuffing my fat face.

caught up:

town - ckd, mattp (he is much better than sc and i don't think replace out is suspish - been burned by that before), reck, zzito
probtown - aj, bbm
mid - others (i can't read cdb for shit so don't wait for my read on him)
maybscum - mollie i guess if i'm following reck?
scum - notscience, spiffeh, catboi

but not in either of these :(

how do you forget me :(

back then i was not only super town but also super imposing :(

how :(((

heyyy this is disingenuous as fuck?

You meta'd mollie and pulled out her scummies nom in the span of 6 minutes and had a complete opinion reversal in that amount of time? get the fuck out of here

6 minutes lol
obviously i'd seen her scummies nom earlier, i have the thread bookmarked
the existence of her nom's been a constant thing in my mind. not too importantly but something like "yeah maybe if i get the time i'll check it against this mollie, maybe" but it was just before returning to the thread, while i was browsing my unreads that i went through the earlier scummie noms pages again and figured i might as well skim some scum!mollie assessments - wasn't all too affecting, but i was just like "oh okay maybe i shouldn't trust mollie's emotion as town 100%, whatever ok". then i got into posting, did whatever it was with starbuck or whoever, and i remember upon responding to mollie there i remembered to

but honestly "6 minutes" give me a fucking break
i'm not an idiot i've played and won as scum more than once.
because reck this is weak af and you know better. now it just looks like you were looking through my earlier ISO for something you could pounce on after i expressed my own issues with you.

[Marquis]

and i remember upon responding to mollie there i remembered to

remembered to put my reconsideration on the record because while there wasn't anything enough that was going to make me want to consider lynching mollie, i wanted to make it clear that i wasn't fully in her camp at the time*
weird cutoffs

[Marquis]

actually, seeing scot's post right now, the one strongest indicator i have right now for mollie being more likely town than scum is how everyone seems to be making the same kinds of "wow mollie is crazy", "mollie is emotional and whiny" and general other put-down comments. it seems to be such a pervasive thought, along with the somewhat-common "mollie is scummy for this", especially through my own null and scum reads in particular, that it's hard for me to imagine this having any scum utility at all. like it's hard for me to even see scum bussing here when throwing an easily-justified mollie townread out is, again, just as easy, with less drawbacks when enough people have to be considering her lynchable right now.

basically i think town is gathering a mob mentality wrt mollie+her emotions and i don't think it's the kind of thing scum regarding a partner would participate in as much or allow to be perpetuated throughout this entire thread as much.

[Marquis]

midterm for a few hours then rereading and engaging!!

[Marquis]

scum pt

scum pt???

awesome play from scot and nexus btw! i really thought you were both town after death until the last day

[Marquis]

Marquis can you refresh my memory on who your town reads are again?

thanks for asking actually, it's been a while and this reminded me that i do have the time to at the very least sort a minimal-detail readslist

DEFINITELY TOWN

17. marquis
10. notscience
11. curiouskarmadog

TOWN

15. spiffeh
12. catboi

TOWN FOR TODAY (WON'T BOTHER CONSIDERING LYNCHING, BARRING MAJOR GAMESTATE THINGS)

4. pirate mollie
7. Davsto - literally just because fuck yall i'm not dealing with the whole potential "lynch what we don't understand" thing that might be going through the subconscious of some town players
13. Papa Zito
14. Starbuck -
18. Bins

NOT SURE, OR EFFECTIVELY NULL

1. Flameaxe - non-alignment indicative, but distracting, dickishness
2. mykonian replacing Blackberry - want to note that i liked BB's, like, one post? but then myko came in and honestly i haven't been attempting to read him much but i'll admit that mollie's scumread here makes me oddly tense, however irrational that is considering i don't even know for sure about my mollie read anymore
9. Nexus - ...i had thoughts on this slot. reminder to ISO again because i forget, but i definitely had -something- on this

TO BE SORTED, OR ACTUALLY NULL SO FAR

5. ChannelDelibird
8. AJ the Epic (i think this was replaced - help??)
16. scotmany12

MIGHT BE SCUM?? IDK IT'S RECK BUT MAYBE I GAVE HIM TOO MUCH FOCUS BECAUSE I DIDN'T EXPECT THE BUDDYING

6. xRECKONERx

I SCUMREAD BOTH PLAYERS IN THIS SLOT LIKE WHOA

3. MattP replacing StrangerCoug

if you have issues with my category division, this isn't meant to impress everyone. this is actually just me trying to keep my own record of in-the-moment opinions because it's been a while since i've really sunk my teeth into this.

actually, move myko up to "town for today". i liked blackberry enough to not want to deal with too much of that right now. gotta limit this now too

this is the most accurate readslist i have ever had! that is my takeaway from this

[Marquis]

i agree with mollie here