Prozac's Basic Theme 4 - Murder in Marlowe - OVER!

[scotmany12]

Man. You guys are all so young.

Vote: Flameaxe

He made fun of my speech impediment once. I feel like this is sufficient enough reason. Obviously.

[scotmany12]

Do I need to make another fight poster?

[scotmany12]

But those take like...ten minutes to make. Frankly I just don't have the time for it.

[scotmany12]

Vote: SC

Like...what is he supposed to defend against. Come on now

[scotmany12]

FUCK. I'm the worst. I'm sorry everyone.

Vote: SC

[scotmany12]

Your mom drew scum

[scotmany12]

I think Reck is town for actually questioning Marquis' read of me when I'd expect scum in his position to jump at the earliest opportunity to back a "real" case (even if it was weak).

I think scotmany's vote on SC is pretty bad.

VOTE: scotmany

Your mom is pretty bad

[scotmany12]

catboi is town

How?

[scotmany12]

Also do you have any thoughts on your wagon?

Not right now. I want to know what scotmany12 and Flameaxe are up to right now, but I'm a bit tired to think, and I don't think they're necessarily scum. They're not on the top of my town list, however.

Why? Out of the like...three other people..did you single me out?!?!?!?!

[scotmany12]

one of these people on the Coug wagon tell me what this wagon on Coug is about?....thinking am missing it.

Well his vote on spiffeh was just awful, as his reasoning was simply that spiffeh didnt defend himself against a completely subjective, gutbased case. I haven't liked his interaction with spiffeh either.

Yo, spiffeh. Question for you. What made my vote on SC bad, but not notscience's?

I'd really like marquis to explain why he thinks catboi is obvtown, cause I'm not seeing it.

[scotmany12]

I've been quite under the weather last night into today and it's still continuing so I haven't been keeping up over the last page or two. Will look at this tomorrow and get caught up with everything going on with sc, spiffeh, ckd, etc.

[scotmany12]

I really don't wanna unvote SCoug right now, zitobro. Sorry

Why is everyone dropping town reads? Thought this was an experienced group. It does us NO GOOD to do this. IF you really thought someone was town, telling everyone is good play becasue? It is like painting a fucking target. So why do it without anyone asking? I find, that scum do it a lot. Way of making friends…oh look..and you got 7 town reads based on jack shit. Welcome to my scum read.

And ckd says exactly what I've been thinking. GJ buddy.

FTR, Mollie saying she is never a good lynch on day 1 bugs me. Is that a normal thing from her?

SCoug's exchange with spiffeh really makes me content with my vote atm. His reluctance to even provide a reason for his vote is just so, blehhhhhh. Also, don't like how he kinda cherry picked a post I made towards spiffeh, even though I never called spiffeh scum in it at all.

[scotmany12]

I don't know about his recent games, but ckd's general play so far this game seems to remind me of his normal ckd play. He seems pretty sincere so far.

[scotmany12]

Hey AJ. Can you point out where spiffeh lied about SC's case on him? Cause you keep on mentioning it, but I am just not seeing it anywhere.

[scotmany12]

CDBs read on Mollie definitely has more to it than just meta, so I'm not happy with mollie just dismissing it as meta.

[scotmany12]

cdb every1 hates meta but I don't and I am pretty sure that while pple are going to say they don't use meta I bet pple will listen to your read that is...based on meta. while making up bullshit reasons to do so. its what most pple are like.

so.....if you are going to cough up a scumread on me based on how you always scumread me then I wld like for you to link the games where you scumread me.

I don't agree with this response to CDBs read.

[scotmany12]

Which part wasn't meta-based? From what I read he was saying "I expect town!Mollie to do X but in this game she did Y so I think she's scum" which is like core meta gameplay. What am I missing.

Meh. I was not happy with how Mollie took one thing CDB said (I always scumread her), while CDB actually linked to some posts, explained how her reasoning/reactions seemed off. Like, it seemed like she ignored all the actual analyses from CDB. Bad job of explaining from me.

[scotmany12]

I pointed out a post that immediately disproved his initial reason for voting for me and since he kept his vote so I assumed that he agreed with Marquis' case. I mean he never further justified his vote so what am I supposed to think?

Why did you ASSUME SC's vote was based only on Marquis' case when SC explicitly said this:

This quote from spiffeh, which you quoted, is answering your question.

And then spiffeh also made this post:

@AJ I responded to that here:

I pointed out a post that immediately disproved his initial reason for voting for me and since he kept his vote so I assumed that he agreed with Marquis' case. I mean he never further justified his vote so what am I supposed to think?

I even laid out my thoughts throughout the whole situation chronologically in post 223 so you don't get to say I didn't answer your question.

Why do you keep focusing on this question you posed when spiffeh clearly answered it? If you aren't content with his explanation, then say so rather than constantly yelling at him to answer.

Why are you ignoring everything else that is going on?

[scotmany12]

223 clearly explains why spiffeh assumed what he did. Either you are fine with his explanation or not, but I don't see how you can expect him to expand on his reasoning for assuming, when it's all right there.

[scotmany12]

I don't understand how you make that assumption when there's nothing to support it.

So you disagree with him. He still answered you. So there is really no point in you constantly harping on this when you could be also looking at everything else going on.

Also, I have a problem with you saying spiffeh is trying to tie you to SC. For him to frame you, SC would have to flip scum, yes?

[scotmany12]

Why do you refuse to comment on the SC wagon then, cause if he was framing you, then both spiffeh and SC would have to be scum together. You can't really accuse spiffeh of trying to frame you, unless of course you know SC's alignment, but there is only one way for you to know that.

[scotmany12]

And if you think he is framing you, then voting for SC would be just as productive as voting for spiffeh. But you adamantly only want to vote for spiffeh.

[scotmany12]

The most I care about the SC wagon is that it probably will prevent you from getting lynched. What's with forcing this SC stuff down my throat when I just think you're scum? Is it that hard to comprehend?

This the only place I see you commenting on the SC wagon. But you already said before that post that he is trying to tie you to SC, which for him to frame you, he would have to be bussing SC. Why wouldn't you mind lynching SC then?

[scotmany12]

Okay. AJ. Simple question. Yes or no answer. Do you think spiffeh and SC are scum together?

[scotmany12]

vote: AJ

Your reasoning for voting spiffeh just doesn't work for me and you are refusing to provide any other content.

[scotmany12]

Davsto you admit yourself that you haven't been acting too town-like and then are suspicious when people want to vote you for it?

DO SOMETHING PLEASE

Nonono

People voting me? Fine. Loads of people going "who's in for a Davsto lynch" "man I want to vote Davsto" "hm who else would vote Davsto?" "are people agreeing with me on Davsto?" whilst I have a total of zero votes on me? Ew.

Why? I don't see a problem with it. You've been scummy this game, so it's understandable that you could be people's 2nd or 3rd choice (I still prefer a Matt or AJ lynch). Town has to compromise a bunch in order to reach lynches so there shouldn't be a problem with this.

I agree that davstros vote on AJ is just awful.

Unless I'm missing something, MattP's vote on bbm just comes down to him being an asshole. Which is not indicative of alignment.

At work so that's all for now.

[scotmany12]

Actually. One more thing.

It's honestly pretty bizarre that Reck has a scumread on PM considering that he knows her in real life. Some other people I have considerably lower expectations of.

Why is this bizarre?

[scotmany12]

I think I clearly explained it is because Reck knows PM well, and after meeting her in public I think it puts her tone into a very understandable town-oriented context.

I have no interest in voting Reck if that's what you're moving towards.

But how someone interacts in real life is not always the same as on a forum. And just because two people know each other in real life does not mean they can automatically read each other.

I understand your viewpoint for voting bbm now, but I disagree with it. I simply don't find that scummy from him.

I don't have the motivation though, I read through 30 pages and got nothing from it.

I vote someone I scumread? Get accused of scum for it. Honestly say I can't get into the game at points? Get accused of scum for it. Fuck am I supposed to do?

You aren't being accused of scum for voting for someone you have a scumread on. You are getting accused for placing a vote on a leading wagon without providing any justification for said vote instead of "I'm not liking him that much." Town who had actually read through the game would have provided way more reasoning. There was a bunch of stuff concerning AJ on like, pages 22-23. And a bunch before that.

Zito - I've expressed my reasoning for him being scum, his vote on me following that helps him not-at-all
scotmany - his "your mom" jokes are terrible fluff and ew.

You did no such thing with zito. In fact, the only time I see you actually making any type of post directed at him was in #682, which is not expressing your reasons for thinking he is scum. You haven't even called him scummy until that post where you list your leads. If it's because he expressed interest in voting for you, it should come at no surprise that he finds you scummy. I think he made that pretty clear.

And I made two "your mom" jokes last friday night, within an hour and a half of each other, when I'm pretty sure I was drinking. I have since commented on other things, even changed my vote from Matt to AJ. The only thing you have to say about me is that I made two "your mom" jokes?

Yeah, I don't see any of this coming from town who just can't get into the game.

vote: Davstro

AJ's last few post are decent, still find him scummy though. Bins interactions with zito are good. Need to look into the Reck/Mollie thing more, agree that Mollie's original vote was horrendous.

And Starbuck's recent post was amazing.

[scotmany12]

Also, pop-tarts>toaster streudals

[scotmany12]

Awww...why did 682 link to 609

post 682

That's the one I meant to link to.

[scotmany12]

Does anyone else have a problem with notscience saying she is ignoring stuff?

[scotmany12]

Also. Him saying newer and older players should just avoid each other...wtf

[scotmany12]

I feel like starbucks argument with mollie is quite relevant. Mollie's contribution, not so much,

[scotmany12]

Why are we letting davstro skate by like this? It's not like he isn't active, he just isn't providing anything. His entire reads list seems extremely forced, and he isn't responding to people (spiffeh and me come to mind instantly).

[scotmany12]

Wheeee

Let's hope my bf Ryan saves me or something, wouldn't want him to be lonely in this hotel.

Actually I might as well ask this: Davsto, what did you mean by this post?

Was this the townread thing you mentioned a few pages back?

[scotmany12]

That question was directed at catboi. I saw where you said it was flavor stuff. Pretty sure most people saw it and just wrote it off as you being sarcastic (at least I did). Really not sure what you were hoping to accomplish with it.

Davstro, I want you to respond to spiffeh's post here:

Dav what do you think of scotmany's push on AJ?

And then my entire post 823. I fixed the link in post 825

[scotmany12]

Zito had voted for you before he switched to aj, so I found it pretty obvious he thought you were scummy. Town try to determine how strong a wagon will be all the time, especially in day 1. So I don't really follow your thought process there.

And I made two "your mom" jokes last friday night, within an hour and a half of each other, when I'm pretty sure I was drinking. I have since commented on other things, even changed my vote from Matt to AJ. The only thing you have to say about me is that I made two "your mom" jokes?

Please respond to this.

And there is so much more surrounding SC. Him and Spiffeh went at it for quite a few pages. It really seems like you are just lying about having read the game.

[scotmany12]

And scot.

When half the reasoning to vote him is to pressure him into doing stuff, its kind of super shitty. MattP is still the best lynch on the table.

My reasoning for voting for him is definitely not at all to pressure him. I don't see this coming from town. If he actually read the game like he said, then he is just cherry picking little things to comment on while providing very little substance.

I didn't like his question regarding me, it felt too much like polling the crowd rather than actually committing a stance.

What was it before that post that you didn't like? I assume you mean this post 866, yet you expressed interest in wagoning me in post 805. And I stand by 866. It was in reference to post 851, which I did not like one bit.

[scotmany12]

Im content with either an AJ or a Davstro lynch at this point. Catbois post on AJ is fantastic. AJ's response is awful. Town should defend themselves way more than that.

@nottty
why do you need to ask mollie who to wagon? Why can't you take a stance on your own?

MattP's vote on AJ is awful. Davstro is also actively avoiding contributing to this game. Until his post on mollie, which is just awful. Are we really going to let him get away with calling mollie's post fluff, when he has consistently done the exact same thing? (I dissagree that mollies read list is fluff)

I don't like that Davsto and MattP are voting for AJ

davsto is probably town having a bad game

Where do you see this? Everything from him seems extremely ingenuine. I point back to his reads list where he just cherry picked little instances to provide some semblance of thought. I really don't see his thought process coming from town. He has continually not done anything.

Jesus, this readslist. It looks nice at first glance, but when you look closer at a lot of the reasons, they're barely reasons.

You read list is so much more guilty of this. Except that your reads list doesnt even look close to good at first glance. You are actively trying to find things wrong with her post. Why did you just pick her one post out of everything? If you legit had a problem, why didnt you vote her? Why are you still leaving your vote on AJ despite never explaining it?

@Mollie, I really wish you actually would commit to a wagon now. Five days really isnt that much time.

[scotmany12]

Hey spiffeh. Out of AJ and Dav, who would you rather lynch?

[scotmany12]

He is a distant third for me.

[scotmany12]

I honestly think I am just about to give up ckd. reread the last 2 pages if you are not understanding where I am coming from my previous post.

I don't understand where you are coming from at all. I'm not seeing the same thing in post 1013 that you are. Doesn't look like a slip to me at all, just that he is pretty sure that cdb is town.

I'd still really prefer lynching davstro or AJ right now. Wagon on notty is decent though.

[scotmany12]

Vote: AJ

Since people are jumping of the davstro wagon.

[scotmany12]

I am so good with dying today that way I don't have to think about zito dismantling the leading wagons thereby pushing us into the forefront when nothing was resolved with the leading wagons.

This is incredibly unfair thing to say. He isn't doing anything of that sort. The fact that you waited 4-5 days before deadline to actually push something is way worse. And there is a bunch of stuff to think about with the earlier wagons already, so this is just straight false.

@ckd. Read the thread. nothing about ns stood out. Nothing about people interacting with ns stood out.

This is exactly why we should be pushing that. Cause she has actively chosen to not interact with anyone but mollie. Also, the stuff she is accusing me of (pandering to the crowd) she has been doing in relation to mollie. Also, her vote on davstro is just horrible, as davstro pointed out.

Spiffeh isnt really tunneling, davsto. He's expressed interest in voting for quite a bit of people. I like what you pointed out about ns though. If NS is scum, I don't really see davstro busing here.

VOTE: notscience

catboi, how opposed to a ns lynch are you?

[scotmany12]

@nottty
why do you need to ask mollie who to wagon? Why can't you take a stance on your own?

My opinion at the time was disinterest in almost every leading wagon and I don't want to start a vanity wagon.

And all of notscience's posts have addressed mollie and only mollie and he is making no effort to engage anyone else.

This is just awful. He doesn't like the leading wagons, so instead of doing something about it, he asks mollie to. He isn't taking any stance at all. Which also concerns me that he is now voting for matt after voting for davstro, since at the time they were fairly leading wagons.

[scotmany12]

Have to go to work soon but wanted to respond to mollie real quick.

I pushed sc and then you guys poopooed it away cos you pple hate meta. I refuse to vote some1 to save
myself cos that never works out, town just continues to be dumb in the next day round, if there is this much of a question mark over my head then I deserve to be out cos apparently I am doing something wrong and you guys are soooo much better players than I am.

You were like one of the first people to unvote for SC/Matt, your reasoning being that you wanted to give Matt sometime to get into the game (if I remember correctly). So this statement makes no sense. You unvoted Matt in post 350, which I believe was the first unvote from that wagon. So, if we poopooed it away, you are also guilty of it for just moving away from it.

As for what I learned from wagons. Nothing definite, no, that's not possible with the lack of information. But I am definitely able to form conclusions, determine who looks town and who looks scum. I disagree that they were abandoned in a hurry. The game actually seemed to be stalling until the notty wagon.

[scotmany12]

What the hell is motivation analysis?

[scotmany12]

I have very little interest in a myk wagon. There are much better options, notty is still one of them.

[scotmany12]

I'm perfectly fine with a matt vote. He is one of the ones I find better than myk.

Got it, marquis

[scotmany12]

Im not at all fine with a myk wagon...I also dont like the people parking their votes on mollie atm, with the exception of starbuck, though I wish she would try to look at other people as well. Notty, Matt, AJ, Davstro are all good lynches today.

[scotmany12]

@nottty
why do you need to ask mollie who to wagon? Why can't you take a stance on your own?

My opinion at the time was disinterest in almost every leading wagon and I don't want to start a vanity wagon.

And all of notscience's posts have addressed mollie and only mollie and he is making no effort to engage anyone else.

This is just awful. He doesn't like the leading wagons, so instead of doing something about it, he asks mollie to. He isn't taking any stance at all. Which also concerns me that he is now voting for matt after voting for davstro, since at the time they were fairly leading wagons.

This is my leading reason, catboi. At the time he expressed interest in wagoning me, he had just unvoted Matt. He had clearly expressed interest in lynching MattP before that, but at his unvote, MattP was maybe town to him. What did Matt do to make him change his position, and then what did Matt do to make notty think he is scum again? And I'm not content on his explanation for needing mollie so he wouldn't start a vanity wagon. Going from one wagon with two votes to another is going to be gamechanging? If he was really suspicious of me, why wouldn't he push it?

I also disagree with you in that his response has been townish. His reads are all over the place and not things I understand, considering he has only mainly been interacting with mollie (i have no idea where his belief that CDB is scum is coming from). I don't like his defense of how people who have played with him/know him are off the wagon, as if that instantly discredits the wagon.

P-EDIT: A. Scum can bush. B. We don't know who many scum groups we are dealing with. C. Scummy players being on a wagon does not instantly discredit said wagon.

[scotmany12]

EBWOP: Bus, not bush....

[scotmany12]

I don't know what you mean by speccing. Im saying its a possibility. In his other three theme games, Chaz use a mafia and sk in one mini, and just mafia in another mini. He used two mafia groups in his third theme, which was larger.

I'm saying scummy people being on a wagon doesn't not discredit it when we don't know how many scum groups there are. I don't see why you have a problem with that.

And what happened inbetween you unvoting Matt, saying he might be town, to voting for him again and expressing your desire for his lynch? Inbetween that, Matt had only made like 8 posts, quite a few of them being him saying he would catch up.

[scotmany12]

And what happened inbetween you unvoting Matt, saying he might be town, to voting for him again and expressing your desire for his lynch? Inbetween that, Matt had only made like 8 posts, quite a few of them being him saying he would catch up.

I got sick of hearing excuse after excuse for him to catch up. He was so much more proactive in Disney in comparison to here and I think he even mentioned he wanted to draw town so bad he submitted the 3 cutest fluffiest characters so he wouldnt draw scum (citation needed) which lends to a theory of him being apathetic as scum and not being able to truly do anything. While there I was scum who actually had to scumhunt, I could at least tell he was town by the passion he was expressing and I understand it could be time constraints but I don't think it's that simple.

Why didn't you have the same issue with davstro earlier today? He was also making excuses for not contributing, but you seemed fine with that. In fact, you called him town when you initially unvoted Matt. I don't know if you have ever played with davstro, but the one game I played with him he was fairly active and was part of multiple discussions as town.

Searching for multiple scumgroups on day 1 is not in my mind. Finding any type of scum is. Scummy people voting for other scummy people is not going to keep me, and it shouldn't keep anyone, from voting for someone they think is scum. Especially when we have no confirmed alignments. The multiple scum group possibility was simply another reason why this is also true.

[scotmany12]

Wow. Mollie has become insuferable.

I'm fine with if people want to switch over to MattP. I'm pretty down and meh and bleh tonight so I'm not really focused on this right now.

[scotmany12]

Vote: MattP

[scotmany12]

ZITO I HUMBLY ACCEPT BROCHAT INVITE THX

sweet

where the fuck is scot

and we need to decide what we're doing



ATTN TOWN

this is now Brochat Alliance QuickTopic Central

I'm here zito. Let's lynch Matt. We won't have enough to support for notty or davstro, and I am not fond of the myk wagon.

[scotmany12]

Mollie. What was the point of your notty vote earlier?

Can you unpack this some? I looked through his ISO trying to understand what it is you find town about it. One thing that bothered me was that when the wagon on davsto dissolved, rather than try and make it become a thing again he was content joining another wagon and putting it on the back burner.

Um. At the time I unvoted davstro, he was at two votes. That includes me. I think he was at either 5 or 6 before that. Everyone had ample time to join the wagon, but it never took off past what it was. So I moved my vote to AJ, in hoping that that would lead to something. The wagon on you took off instead, which I was fine with, hence me voting for you. I'm not tunneling in this game. Me switched my vote after a wagon loses steam is not me putting something on the backburner. Why don't you have a problem with others who jumped off the davstro (Zito mainly comes to mind, who was also pretty adamant about lynching davstro)?

Also. Why is bbm's read change sketchy, yet you are allowed to change your read on davstro and others? (Pretty sure you've changed your read on davstro at least like three times now)

Please stop saying I was trying to "poll the audience." You know you are just as guilty of that when YOU REFUSED TO VOTE FOR ANYONE WITHOUT MOLLIE.

[scotmany12]

Mollie. What was the point of your notty vote earlier?

Mollie. Answer this in your next post. And answer CKD's question as well. This is getting ridiculous.

I dont like this lynch. i am sure if he flips scum, I will be eating these words. but it just looks bad.

What's a better lynch for you then? Besides myk.

[scotmany12]

I mean even if you wanted to change the lynch would we have time?

I'd flash wagon Davsto or notscience if it would actually go through because now I'm second guessing myself.

What's making you second guess yourself about the Matt lynch? You were pretty adamant throughout the day. Does a VT claim really dissuade you that much? Or is there just something I'm missing.

[scotmany12]

VOTE: Espeonage

I really think I was on to something about the whole AJ saying spiffeh was trying to frame him with a connection to SC.

[scotmany12]

Mollie. What was the point of your notty vote earlier?

Mollie. Answer this in your next post. And answer CKD's question as well. This is getting ridiculous.

Mollie. Please.

Davstro. Who do you think is scum?

You're mean zito

[scotmany12]

I'm in agreement that notty looks more town now. He could have easily voted for myk, hoping for that to be the counter wagon, rather than mattp.

P-Edit: Why starbuck and myk? Also, what happened to your mollie suspicion?

[scotmany12]

Davsto: post 1049 and post 1052. Sure looks like you were suspicious of her. But I don't remember you mentioning myk and starbuck at all.

[scotmany12]

@Zito: I still see a clear connection between AJ and SC. Him trying to push the spiffeh was framing him by connecting him to SC doesn't make sense unless he knows SC is scum. I wasn't content with his response to my push on this in post 546. And there is his entire tunneling on spiffeh while ignoring everything else that is going on.

I also really like starbuck's post 1729 about espe, especially the part about his vote on mattp. That's a bussing kind of vote.

[scotmany12]

Catboi:

Also do you have any thoughts on your wagon?

Not right now. I want to know what scotmany12 and Flameaxe are up to right now, but I'm a bit tired to think, and I don't think they're necessarily scum. They're not on the top of my town list, however.

Why? Out of the like...three other people..did you single me out?!?!?!?!

Because you stand out and I need to read you. Probably when my stomach decides it isn't at war with me.

So, this is interesting.

What were you hoping to accomplish by posting this? What made it interesting to you? I'm very interested in your thought process when you pointed this out.

:/

I am p unsure as to what to say rn.

1. There is conjecture reasoning that ties me to dead scum from my previous counterpart, that also has a counterpoint brought up by zito.
2. There is then more conjecture based on a null action I took that also has equal parts of for and against in terms of ties to dead scum, both are being read as reasons I am scum.
3. Day ended in the middle of the night for me, so I don't really see how timing of self vote has anything to do with me, as brought up by star.

1. Zito didn't really bring up a counterpoint. He just thought he saw more of a connection to davstro in that quote he posted. No where does it discredit anything concerning AJ.
2. What?
3. That wasn't star's point. She was saying that mattp conveniently self hammered right after she expressed her suspicion of you.

As for AJ, ever since Spiffeh came after him, he was trying to play it off as spiffeh connecting him to SC, framing him, etc. This makes no sense coming from a town perspective. For that to be true, he would have had to thought SC and Spiff were scum together (he admitted to not believing this) or he would have to know SC would turn up scum.

@ ckd - I know me not answering your questions is frustrating to you but I don't really think exploding at me in the way that you did was warranted.

I feel like they have already been answered.

my brain just works differently than other pple's and I feel like if I tried to answer your questions that it wld just frustrate you even more cos I don't think that you wld understand the answers.

No such thing has happened. You haven't even attempted to answer his questions. You still haven't answered my question regarding your quick vote, unvote on notty. And now you aren't even willing to give zito a simple yes/no answer (the answer to his question is also not in your first post of the day). It's a simple question, and I'm not sure why you are making a big deal out of it. Just answer it.

[scotmany12]

I would also really like to know why mollie is voting for zito. During her readslist she had him as town. So what changed?

P-EDIT: Yes or no to Zito's question. Now. Stop with the bullshit.

[scotmany12]

I really don't understand why it is so hard to just answer yes or no. Also, I'd be worried if you could loverize more than one person since I don't trust your judgement atm, and I'm town, so I completely disagree with that.

What exactly don't you like about how zito handled the Matt lynch?

I'm freaked out about CDBs vote on me. He had me as a strong town read during day one, then during day two that instantly dropped. He said my crusade against davstro felt very town, what changed? And one of the posts he quoted to give reasoning for voting for me, my post 823, he said was where he got his strong town read on me from:

scotmany

- Became a strong read here. His Davsto crusade feels town

Right after his vote on me, he posted this:

I think I clearly explained it is because Reck knows PM well, and after meeting her in public I think it puts her tone into a very understandable town-oriented context.

I have no interest in voting Reck if that's what you're moving towards.

But how someone interacts in real life is not always the same as on a forum. And just because two people know each other in real life does not mean they can automatically read each other.

I understand your viewpoint for voting bbm now, but I disagree with it. I simply don't find that scummy from him.

At this point, given how big scotmany went on SC earlier, this post really doesn't have the paranoia of the MattP slot that I would expect from town.

The reasoning here is irrelevant to MattP turning up scum. If MattP was town, he should have still had the same reaction to this. He didn't have a problem with this part of my post earlier, in fact, he like that entire post from me.

[scotmany12]

CKD. Who you leaning towards being scum?

[scotmany12]

i didn't like how zito had to be dragged there kicking and screaming. <------ I have said this already. the vote looks more like a bus than him actually thinking that matty was scum.

We just have a different definition of kicking and screaming then. Zito was fine with the SC wagon throughout the day, and expressed his suspicion of the timing of SC's replacement request. I wasn't surprising by him being willing to lynch matt.

I also think that you are right to not like cdb's voteparking on you, he voteparked on d1 as well. I dunno. his inactivity bugs me.

I also don't like his reasoning for coming up a reason to iso me, you, and catboi in post 1787. Why is he dropping all of his other suspicions to focus on this one post? SC and Matt had more interactions than just that. This looks like scum freaking out over that one "townbloc" post from him scumbuddy that only included him. It also allows him to line up 2 more lynches once he isn't successful on mine.

what do you think of zito wanting dave lynched but voting espy? I found it kind of weird how matty was trying to steer the lynch away from a dave lynch and in this day round myko is doing the same thing. do you honestly think that matty wld try to bus aj/espy out of nowhere in order to save himself? cos I just find it unlikely.

Zito can find them both scummy so I don't see an issue with it. I would actually expect Matt to vote dave there if dave is scum. Also, at the time of his vote, his wagon really was kind of stagnating. He didn't seem to be in a real threat at that moment, (the latest vote was Marq, which happened about 60 or so posts before that one, and spiffeh and flame were on him forever) so I could totally see him trying to bus his buddy AJ at that moment. I can see him doing both options (protecting his scumbuddy dav or trying to bus his scumbuddy AJ, distancing himself).

@CKD: you mentioned yesterday that I had a good point about the "framing" issue surrounding AJ/SC/Spiff. Do still think so? Also, where did your spiff suspicion come from? Unless I missed something, that is new to me.

[scotmany12]

Are you ever going to have the effort?

CKD, I'll get you the post numbers in a little bit. On my phone now.

[scotmany12]

@CKD: you mentioned yesterday that I had a good point about the "framing" issue surrounding AJ/SC/Spiff. Do still think so? Also, where did your spiff suspicion come from? Unless I missed something, that is new to me.

i will have to look at it again, time permitting. post number?

My whole exchange with AJ started at about post 201 and goes on for quite a few posts. Post 547, is the one you liked in your post 837. Note that AJ starts with the whole spiff connecting him/framing him with SC in his post 363.

[scotmany12]

Also yeah the Espeonage wagon is terrible I'm sorry.

Well not that terrible there are just better options.

Can you expand on this spiffeh? Obviously, you think davstro is one of the better options, I get that. But do you really not see AJ and SC being scum together?

I am not opposed to a davstro lynch. We have now gone 24 or so hours without him contributing, despite him saying he would.

@Mollie: You know zito far more when it comes to mafia. I just don't think he has been scummy at all. His vote on MattP was understandable for me, and I didn't see any of the kicking and screaming.

ok look if most of you aren't gonna play can you at least just sheep onto the Espeonage wagon?

no

I would vote Aj over Davsto. I think Davsto's narrative for his disinterest in the game is genuine, whereas Aj is actively avoiding contribution to most aspects of the games but providing disingenuous and over-defensive reasoning for doing so.

VOTE: Aj the epic

I think it's proper to cool down on an espy lynch till you actually have something to go on. His slots interaction with matt is fine, come back in a day or two and revise, but he's not the lynch we want today.

I really, really dislike posts like this. Don't just quote a post and have us extrapolate your reasoning from it. Tell us why it's not a good lynch.

[scotmany12]

So. Actual content time, davstro. Let's see it.

[scotmany12]

> refusing to elaborate on your scum reads
> massive fucking post literally 30 minutes ago.


Like, that shit takes effort. I see no productivity in doing it for more than one player.

So in the two days you had to come up with something, despite you saying you would do it in one day, the only contribution is basically a rehash of what spiff, star, and me had to say about AJ/Espe? Pretty lackluster.

[scotmany12]

This is the goddamn reason why I didn't want to do it, because once I do everyone goes "yeh he's scum"

fucking morton's fucking fork bullshit

If you are town, why are overly concerned with looking scummy?

[scotmany12]

Oh piss off, I'm done with this bullshit

"provide reads"
*provides reads*
*reads get fucking ignored while people keep voting me*

PEdit I'm not concerned with looking scummy I'm concerned that no-one's listening to my goddamn reasons and people are concentrating on town rather than scum

But Espe is the leading wagon right now??????

[scotmany12]

> refusing to elaborate on your scum reads
> massive fucking post literally 30 minutes ago.


Like, that shit takes effort. I see no productivity in doing it for more than one player.

See. Here's my problem. You know people want to see stuff from you, and in doing so it could save your own skin. How is that not productive? You've been skating by for quite sometime, if you really were town, wouldn't you be doing all you could to try to convince people that so to avoid a mislynch?

[scotmany12]

VOTE: Davstro

[scotmany12]

@Mollie: You know zito far more when it comes to mafia. I just don't think he has been scummy at all. His vote on MattP was understandable for me, and I didn't see any of the kicking and screaming.

what makes you think this, scotty?

He expressed suspicion of the Matt wagon throughout the day (saying he was fine with the SC wagon, suspicious of the replacement request) and I don't see him being opposed to switching over to the Matt wagon anywhere. His eagerness to get something done yesterday looked really town.

[scotmany12]

Why do you have a problem with the davstro wagon, Mollie?

[scotmany12]

This is like, only the second?? mafia game I've played with zito.

And this post:

This is the goddamn reason why I didn't want to do it, because once I do everyone goes "yeh he's scum"

fucking morton's fucking fork bullshit

Doesn't look like it would come from town. Town doesn't care about posting something that makes them look scum. They care about catching scum, and if it ends up that they look scummy doing so, then they defend themselves. But they don't censor their posts and worry about looking scummy.

[scotmany12]

What a shocking surprise

[scotmany12]

Had a feeling that posts from SC I referenced earlier plausibly looked like crappy distancing - it was terribly random of him to name two players he "needed to take a look at", likely he had a purpose in mind when he named scot/flameaxe, I think he thought he was disassociating himself with them. Became suspicious of him when I saw CDB's posts so I fully admit I may be biased here in my reading.

And what about the other three people? Do you not find it more suspicious that scum just left off a huge amount of people on his wagon? And why didn't you say this when I questioned you in the first place about that post? You had a suspicion of me since you quoted that post. Why didn't you say so when I questioned you about it?

Pile-on vote on SC in 126, questions SC about singling him out in 154 but completely ignores the response from him in 161. Possible he considered it satisfactory, but it seems weird to cut off questioning of the person you're voting with that. Continues to go after him in 178, 308, but no further interactions.

I saw the response. Me not responding to it isn't me ignoring it. It didn't require a response. It was an unsatisfactory response from him. I still found him scummy, as you can tell from the other two posts I made.

He spends a lot more time arguing with AJ in 402, 538, 543, 545. Some of that's surely activity-based, but even stylistically he's applying a lot more pressure to AJ where he just made sort of broad declarative statements about SCoug. Him asking "Why do you refuse to comment on the SC wagon then" really possibly looks like he's setting up AJ to be voted after an SC scum flip.

AJ did refuse to comment on the SC wagon, so I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you having an issue with my pressure on AJ? How in my eyes he seemed to know SC's alignment, and if anyone was setting up a vote, it was AJ for his constant use of "framing" against spiffeh.

I don't find the unvote in 565 to be telling just because at that point MattP had replaced in, and in context I can certainly see being suspicious of AJ as making sense. But there's maybe a worrying feeling I get reading this ISO where I'm not seeing a lot from scot that seems..original? insightful? Like how he sort of adds to the suspicion on davsto by just saying "you've been scummy" and that his vote is "awful". Also notable in that post is he sort of blandly dismisses mattp's flameaxe vote, doesn't make a statement toward a read on him. This is a hard statement to justify I realize, and it could be something I'm imagining but not a whole lot feels like real scumhunting.

My entire attack on AJ was original, no one brought up the point of "framing" before me. Also, I was still scumreading someone. I don't need to go around throwing out everyone of my reads. It's not going to happen. It gives scum to much information. But hey, I was voting for SC before, thought he was scummy. Then was cautious of his vote on flameaxe. Maybe that meant I was still scumreading the slot?

As CDB pointed out, interactions with Matt in 702 and 823 are fairly calm for a slot he was scumreading earlier. I know that when I saw Matt's flameaxe case, I thought it sucked, and I was

suspicious

of him for making it - to go "I understand but disagree" seems weird.

Was my whole interaction with AJ not calm? Is my entire interaction with davstro not calm now? Because I feel like it is. How is any of that weird? There isn't anything scummy about it, which is part of my problem with CDB's vote. And I was actually fine with his explanation for his vote. I just disagreed with it being scummy. That does not automatically mean I townread the slot.

Fully disagree that davstro is town. His overreaction is null. What isn't null is his inability to provide justification for more than one of his reads when asked. I also do think he slipped up in post 2062. Town shouldn't care if others think what they post is scummy. Not sure why you think my vote on him is bad, when you just said you understand why I would be suspicious of him in day 1. That suspicion hasn't just gone away.

Looking at itI don't like the statement in 1051 of "Town should defend themselves way more than that." because it feels like an excuse to lynch someone. I have no idea why someone's effort in defending themselves should be considered toward their alignment at all, scum are just as capable of defending themselves and town get unmotivated. It's kind of odd he claims "MattP's vote on AJ is awful." in that same post while saying he's okay with lynching AJ, doesn't really elaborate on a read there.

I disagree. I hardly ever find town getting unmotivated when attacked. I do find scum doing it though. I'm not allowed to have a problem with someone's vote even though they are voting for someone I think is scummy if I don't like the reasoning and or lack of? His reasoning in post 1039, was bad. It's what a lot of people are going back to. I'm just trying to figure out if he would bus or defend scum here. Very confidant one of Davsto/Espe is scum.

Never liked his suspicion of notscience, vote in 1205 looks not great, hard to understand why that's his go-to. Don't like the reasoning in 1206, feels totally fair for notscience to ask a townread who to wagon and it feels like scot's trying to make something out of nothing.

NS wasn't asking who to wagon. He was specifically throwing out my name, expressing that he found me scummy, and asking if Mollie would vote me with her. He doesn't need Mollie's support to do so. His defense that he didn't want to start a vanity wagon did not work for me. Two votes instead of one wouldn't have changed that at the moment. And it's perfectly understandable why I would go to that wagon. The game was stalling, and a new wagon was needed to breathe fresh air into the game. And it worked.

No idea why he expresses disinterest in wagoning mykonian in 1291. No mentions of him before that. Says Matt is a better vote in 1295, no reasoning, no real commentary on him. notable he's gone davsto-AJ-notsci with the MattP wagon starting to build - (VC after this has notsci/Matt at 5-5)

Because I didn't think myk is scum? And I still don't. And it's almost like I still found the Matt slot suspicious like I did in the beginning of the day.

Him swatting down my question to Zito (1305) in 1309 kind of bugs me, especially as he's trying to justify lynching notscience when his strong scumread Davsto is on the wagon. Actually in both his case and Zito's, I don't like this. It's okay to be fine wagoning with a scumread, but to not react to it or comment on it strkes me as the action of someone who doesn't really care what their scumread is doing, which makes me wonder how real their read is.

..............so we're scummy for not commenting on a vote from someone we find scummy? Okay then. Not everything deserves a response.

Also he's pestering notsci about his vote on Matt in 1318, which is possibly sort of an oblique defense.

What?

He very quietly moves over to the MattP wagon in 1545/1546, voting without actually explaining why. This looks plausibly like a bus. It's going along with the growing consensus, and doing it very quietly. The fact that he's gone into some detail on his othr votes but just sort of sheeps along on Matt is off. Then he's questioning spiffeh about second guessing in 1723, despite never really having expressed much confidence in the lynch himself.

Matt did nothing during the day to dissuade me from my suspicions of SC. And yes, I wanted to know why spiffeh was second guessing himself. It seemed weird since the only thing that really happened was a VT claim, which shouldn't be enough.

So what points did CDB make? That he though one of me, you, and mollie are scum? His reason for voting for me comes down to him thinking I was bussing, and then not having enough paranoia. He picked two of my posts throughout my entire ISO, and simply said, oh hes bussing, oh he's not suspicious enough. That's not good reasoning. You're right in that CDB could have changed his mind, etc., and looking back in his initial reads post, he said he only skimmed. And he does say he will go back over when we get a flip. I had missed that. I still have a problem with his vote. I don't like his reasoning for me. There isn't much there. "This seems to be a post scum would make." Why? Why is me being calm an issue? I know he thinks one of the three he said is scum, but if that's the best he can come up with, maybe he should try hunting somewhere else. There are other interactions to go on. Cause it just looks like he's looking for a reasoning to think one of us is scum.

I reread this exchange this morning. What I find interesting about it (now) is that no one knew SC's alignment at the time. it also reminds me that Spiff thought AJ was scum yesterday, but said Esp's wagon is "terrible" today.

Spiff?

what changed?

shouldnt the scum flip of SC strengthen this?

(reading more). man the back and forth between Spiff and SC, makes spiff look town though. still curious though.

Yeah, it didn't make sense to me unless AJ knew SC would come up scum. Kind of like a preventive defense.

What a shocking surprise

and what exactly do you mean by this?

Catboi voting for me isn't a surprise. I felt like he was slowly leading up to it through his posts. I was waiting for it with bated breath.

[scotmany12]

BULLSHIT

Ya sorry prodded, been having this on backburner. I think I still need to respond to the star case and comment on dav wagon as a todo list.

^ THIS IS WHAT VIGS ARE FOR AND YOU VERY WELL KNOW IT, NOT FOR TOWN WHO HAS BEEN BLUDGEONED INTO GIVING UP

You mean like how davstro was this entire game? Except davstro was actively avoiding prods. He just wasn't doing anything. And when spiffeh asked for more after his Espe vote, he flipped out for no reason. That's not a town reaction.

Why has your read changed on me?

[scotmany12]

EBWOP: Espe post not vote. On phone right now.

[scotmany12]

@CKD: this post 2043 from Myko makes me think he is town. I disagree with his view, but for him to throw davstro in there, say he thinks they are both likely town, looks like something coming from town.

[scotmany12]

mollie Davsto is not giving up. He has been given ample opportunity to provide some content and actually help but instead he opted to throw a hissy fit, further discredit and misrepresent everyone scum reading him, and resort to AtE that people are buying for some reason.

he HAS provided content. and you fuckers nitpicked and dismissed it.

you can't ALL be scum but jeezus

I called it lackluster. I still see it as that. We wanted more from him. He couldn't provide anymore.

[scotmany12]

@CKD: this post 2043 from Myko makes me think he is town. I disagree with his view, but for him to throw davstro in there, say he thinks they are both likely town, looks like something coming from town.

hmmm.

lets jump in our time machine to the future.

Davasto has been lynched....he is scum

is it still coming from town in your eyes?

and

unvote

for the time being.

Yes. Cause then I would have expected him to go after Espe. If he was scum with davstro he wouldn't have pointed out the SC post in the first place.

[scotmany12]

he flipped out for no reason. That's not a town reaction.

meh, "no reason"? so scum would flip out for "no reason"? I flip out all the time.

God I am so back and forth on Davasto's wagon. but if anyone is going to push it..it should be pushed for actual scum reasons.

I don't see any reason why that reaction would come from town. It just doesn't make sense from me.

[scotmany12]

Still town. Give me a second. Almost at a computer.

[scotmany12]

This:

Davsto I want your reasons for scum reading everyone you mentioned not just AJ.

This also doesn't excuse you from disappearing til the next time you have to be prodded (which I am predicting will happen anyway).

Into these two:

Oh screw that, I'm not justifying scumreading players I'm not goddamn voting.

Like, seriously, I'm only giving them out because I want people to vote with me on Scum. I'm not just gonna give out reasoning for all of my reads willy nilly.

Nothing Spiffeh really said should have pissed him off (he has been disappearing for up to almost two days at multiple times). He knows why people are asking for his reasoning, he knows he is on the hot seat. Maybe I'm expecting too much of people, but town would know his reaction wouldn't get him anywhere, that he needs to defend himself so that he doesn't get lynched. The logical thing to do would either delve into his suspicions right away, or if he needed more time, to give a quick justification for his other reads, and then get back to them.

[scotmany12]

Why are you scumreading me now mollie

[scotmany12]

Once again on phone. Just to respond to Mollie real quick.

The interaction between you and zito earlier on made it seem like you guys had played together, hence the you know him more when it comes to mafia. So if despite me saying I didn't find anything scummy from him, that his vote on matt made sense, I didn't want you to just write off your suspicion of him as me knowing him more. I thought you were going by a meta point with you constantly calling him odd, like you have played with him before.

[scotmany12]

you are all smooth and debonair.

scot you realize that you're never living this comment down right

I am very flattered

[scotmany12]

Once again on phone. Just to respond to Mollie real quick.

The interaction between you and zito earlier on made it seem like you guys had played together, hence the you know him more when it comes to mafia. So if despite me saying I didn't find anything scummy from him, that his vote on matt made sense, I didn't want you to just write off your suspicion of him as me knowing him more. I thought you were going by a meta point with you constantly calling him odd, like you have played with him before.

I don't meta pple through pattern matching! and *ongoing*

And I had thought your suspicion of him was mainly meta besides his Matt vote. Hence you know him better. So I was basically just saying if you find him suspicious keep going, I just won't join you on it.

And I think zito is town, and we are friends outside of the game, so that's probably where the other part of your issue is coming from. I don't have a problem working with him. As for being nice to you, I just don't understand why you would think that is scummy.

Zito: I highly doubt davstro and espe are scum together.

[scotmany12]

i'm 100% ok if you disagree with it

it has very weak reasons right now

but to not understand it?

Why do you think the reasoning is weak?

[scotmany12]

Holy shit. No one is ignoring your post about espe. Also, I pointed out how it was basically just repeating what others had said, and how I expected more from you with the two days you had to work with. When pressured for your other reads, instead of giving your gut based reasons right away, you threw a fit.

[scotmany12]

lol at that post

[scotmany12]

Question for mollie: Does me being scum depend on zito being scum? Also, visa versa.

[scotmany12]

Question for mollie: Does me being scum depend on zito being scum? Also, visa versa.

well, yeah

Okay. You're still voting for Espe, so I assume you are still scumreading that slot. You think I could be scum with espe?

[scotmany12]

i'm 100% ok if you disagree with it

it has very weak reasons right now

but to not understand it?

Why do you think the reasoning is weak?

I'm not sure what the better word is his.

Not weak, just not... uh, specific examples. Just his play in general. His attitude and his effort.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say with this. What about davstros attitude and effort??

[scotmany12]

Uhhhh...the davstro wagon isn't based on gut. Where did you get that idea from?

[scotmany12]

i'm on the wagon because of both gut and the fact davsto hasn't done anything

gut because i don't like the way he's reacting

So do you have a problem with why other people are voting for him then? Calling the entire wagon weak, then backtracking and saying you just meant you were voting for him based on gut, is perplexing me.

[scotmany12]

Since CDB brought it up again.

I'm not so naive to think that you all will actually suddenly decide to let me off. If I provided that nice Epse wall and everyone's still scumreading me for it, three other, less substantial ones aren't going to change jack.

This doesn't seem likely to come from scum. It's too righteously indignant.

I am surprised that he immediately picks up two more votes right after this.

Yeah, no. Davstro is completely misrepresenting why people were still scumreading him. Spiff asked for him to explain his reads, he then threw a fit. That's not a town reaction. That was scummy. Later on, he gives vague reasonings for his other reads. Why wouldn't he do that in the beginning? He doesn't mention where I called his Espe post lackluster, and that I expected more from him with two whole days to work with. That we are tired of the constant promises from him which only result in his failure to deliver. When he does deliver something, when pressed for more, he throws a fit. This isn't righteously indignant from him. Stop falling for his appeal to emotion.

I just came in to reread the last handful of pages, and the first thing of note that came up is a post from Davsto which is massively more likely to come from town than scum, which immediately brings two more votes to his wagon. I really didn't understand that reaction. Obviously I am aware to an extent of why Davsto had some votes because I thought he was pretty scummy for much of Day 1, but his responses to pressure look very town and that people went more in on him after that is baffling to me and makes me think that he's a targeted mislynch.

Well, at least one of the two people who jumped on him after that is scum, in all likelihood. Just need to try to get people to see the light here.

You're surprised that two people who were scumreading him throughout day one decided to vote him after that bullshit hissy fit from him? He's done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt from me. I wasn't going to buy into that. Just because you think his reaction is genuine (I don't see why anyone would) doesn't mean everyone else is.

[scotmany12]

Bins:

i'm on the wagon because of both gut and the fact davsto hasn't done anything

gut because i don't like the way he's reacting

So do you have a problem with why other people are voting for him then? Calling the entire wagon weak, then backtracking and saying you just meant you were voting for him based on gut, is perplexing me.

Plz respond

[scotmany12]

V/LA for most of the weekend into Monday

Will try to be around a little bit but got a lot of stuff I need to do

[scotmany12]

i love you chaz

[scotmany12]

Scot's getting too wrapped up in consistency as his defence. People who were scumreading Davsto on Day 1 should be just as able to reevaluate based on newer posts as anyone.

My defense has nothing to do with consistency. If you read my response to catboi, you'd know I admitted that yes, you could have changed your mind, and that I missed where you first said you would go over when we had a flip. I still don't like your reasoning. You picked two of my posts related to Matt, and simply said, this doesn't look like its coming from town. You didn't expand on it at all. You mention you were going to look at cat's, mollie's, and mine iso, and that was the best you can come up with. There is nothing there in your reasoning. I don't think consistency has since come up since that one post addressing your post, and I don't see myself using consistency to defend myself against catboi.

Catboi: As for why I think myk is town. He did nothing to make me suspicious of him in day one. I wasnted nothing to do with his wagon when we had all these other scummy players. I now do fully believe he is town, and I explain my reasoning to ckd in post 2156. So for people expressing interest in a myk lynch, I'm still not having any of it.

As for the rest of your response to me. I have no desire to go back and forth with you, with both of us just saying the same thing over and over again. You have a problem with my tone, that's fine. I don't see how that makes me scum. I disagree that me being calm with matt is a sign of bussing. I still disagree with you on davstro. You may believe he is genuine, I don't. He still isn't doing anything. I don't put it past him to actually try what he did as scum.

I do want to address where we mentioned AJ. As for where I said he made a post where he implies to know SC's alignment, it was the entire conversation I had with him constantly trying to say Spiff is trying to frame him by connecting him with SC. That doesn't work unless he thinks both Spiff and SC were scum (he didn't), or if he is partners with SC. Did you miss that entire interaction I had with him? The only issue I have right now is that I don't think Davstro and espe are scum together, and they both look very scummy to me.

Hey Dave!

Remember this game?

I love how there are so many people that haven't posted for longer than me, yet I'm the one you chase after.

He has nothing to talk about now that my vote is elsewhere

Oh ffs not this again.

Why do you continually only show up when someone mentions your name?

This is the goddamn reason why I didn't want to do it, because once I do everyone goes "yeh he's scum"

fucking morton's fucking fork bullshit

If you are town, why are overly concerned with looking scummy?

Because the point of the game is to lynch scum. When you know you aren't and the mob forms and they swear that you are, it's hella frustrating. Like the fact in this game that not one person, save for Reck, seems to think that I'm town when I know that I am. This means that, eventually, I'm going to be mislynched (or vigged thanks to the link with mollie) because no one wants to believe me. Or right now, the only reason that I'm even being kept alive is that no one wants to see mollie die. I mean, if you guys think I'm so scummy, where the fuck is my lynch? All these people saying that I'm scum, but just are using my back and forth with mollie as reasoning is weak. But you know, I guess it doesn't matter that I've been doing my best to give my thoughts, go through ISOs, and try to be as informed as I can (V/LAs and busyness not withstanding).

Where did this come from? Who, besides espe and myk, recently called you scummy? I mean, I think you are town. I just don't go and throw out my reads all the time. I don't get this reaction from you.

[scotmany12]

While reck's inactivity is quite bothersome, his interaction's with mollie made me view him as town. CDB would probably be my third choice after Davsto/Espe. Also need to see way more from nexus.

[scotmany12]

And he's not even fighting for people to consider his scum read I just don't like it.

It's cause he doesn't even think it. Look at his reasoning for voting me. "There has to be scum in this group, oh here are two posts from Scot, let's vote him." It's incredibly weak. I actually see catboi believing what he says, even though he is wrong. I don't see any of that from CDB. I also hate how he says my defense is all about consistency when that had nothing to do with my defense against catboi, and I rescinded the consistency part with him as I missed a part of his post, but that didn't change how weak his vote was.

[scotmany12]

Yeah we need to lynch davstro

[scotmany12]

I seem to be unable to find where you are actually playing the game. Rather you just show up whenever your name is mentioned, make a smug remark, say we should lynch Espe, then disappear.

People gave you an out as a frustrated townie and you are running with it.

[scotmany12]

And please don't respond pointing to your post about Espe. We have been over that.

[scotmany12]

Been over what, that you're ignoring where I do stuff so you can continually yell "HE'S DOING NOTHING LYNCH HIMMMM"

See. You are the one ignoring me. I looked at your Espe post. I have called it a rehash of what others have said, and that with more time we expected more and wanted your other reads explained. You didn't do that until after your fit, giving, as you admit, poor, gut based reasons. Which you could have given right away rather than blowing up. I have repeated that sentiment multiple times. You are now being openly antagonistic because other people have given you an out. You are scum.

[scotmany12]

Engaging in hypotheticals that are borderline impossible is a waste of time.

Why is it borderline impossible?

[scotmany12]

Yeah fuggit

VOTE: Davsto

scotty do you have any scum reads other than Davsto?

I've mentioned that I think one of dav/espe is scum, but not both. Right now I think dav is more likely. CDB is also scummy. After that I'd probably look at bins, nexus, and Flameaxe (though I have a hard time seeing him bussing matt). The people are have been active all look pretty town to me.

[scotmany12]

having the same issues that i have with cdb in every game we play.

i assume that because he's calling me town he's scum. except then he acts like town. and i get all confused and muddled.

as for the re-read - davsto still town. Espeonage slot i don't like having re-read on AJ. notscience is probably town due to yesterday, sadly. Myko's slot I'm unsure as - leaning closer to scum than town. ckd, spiffeh and Bins really not liking but idk why.

zito+bbm+reck are definitely a townbloc I can get behind.

scot read, go

o scot is town for his cdb post that made me think cdb is scum.

I have since said that I was mistaken in my thought process in that post, as he could have easily changed his mind. However, I still don't like his vote.

So what points did CDB make? That he though one of me, you, and mollie are scum? His reason for voting for me comes down to him thinking I was bussing, and then not having enough paranoia. He picked two of my posts throughout my entire ISO, and simply said, oh hes bussing, oh he's not suspicious enough. That's not good reasoning. You're right in that CDB could have changed his mind, etc., and looking back in his initial reads post, he said he only skimmed. And he does say he will go back over when we get a flip. I had missed that. I still have a problem with his vote. I don't like his reasoning for me. There isn't much there. "This seems to be a post scum would make." Why? Why is me being calm an issue? I know he thinks one of the three he said is scum, but if that's the best he can come up with, maybe he should try hunting somewhere else. There are other interactions to go on. Cause it just looks like he's looking for a reasoning to think one of us is scum.

That was in my entire wall of a reply to catboi, so it doesn't surprise me that people probably didn't read it.

[scotmany12]

pedit: Reck if you want to read that mess as genuine that's fair I guess except how can you explain the refusal to give reads or do ANYTHING beyond yelling about Espeonage? And do you think his interactions with our flipped Scumbob Squarepants are kosher?

I get shouty and indignant and "NO FUCK YOU" as town when people don't listen to me so like...I'm pretty on board w/ where Dav is coming from

I think I'd still prefer a myko wagon to Espe mostly bc i haven't seen the Espy case and also he's calling me town

But it's only really three people doing that, and zito and I haven't really been jumping down his throat that much. I even expressed why I didn't think his post on espe was enough for me. He has had like at least 3 other people voting with him on espe, it's not like no one is going a long with him.

[scotmany12]

Myk. Besides bins and star, who would be your next choice to lynch.

[scotmany12]

Like, I don't have the time and effort to post a bunch around the other one and frankly it'll be a waste of effort since it'll be fucking ignored.

PEdit How about this time you rectify the error you made last time by not voting with me originally?

PEdit Espe is the only person I'm decently strong on enough to provide a decent amount of reasons on. Everyone else is sort of a weak thing based on tiny things.

See. This is my issue. Why didn't he say this right away right after his espe post, when spiffeh asked for his reasoning? Why did he blow up? It looks to me like he didn't have any justification at all for his reads. If they were just weak like he said, why didn't he just say that in the first place, instead of saying he can't be bothered and that posts like his espe post take effort (which wouldn't be the case since his reads were, as he admitted, weak).

[scotmany12]

Yes. He did give reads. After saying that he didn't have the time and effort to justify them. So he threw a fit, then when pressured, said his reads were weak in the first place. I don't follow the thought process there.

[scotmany12]

Davsto I want your reasons for scum reading everyone you mentioned not just AJ.

This also doesn't excuse you from disappearing til the next time you have to be prodded (which I am predicting will happen anyway).

Oh screw that, I'm not justifying scumreading players I'm not goddamn voting.

Like, seriously, I'm only giving them out because I want people to vote with me on Scum. I'm not just gonna give out reasoning for all of my reads willy nilly.

> refusing to elaborate on your scum reads
> massive fucking post literally 30 minutes ago.


Like, that shit takes effort. I see no productivity in doing it for more than one player.

But he has the effort to get into a pissing match for about an hour, instead of simply saying this in the first place:

I've already provided the reason I'm not so hot on you, and my notscience one is still there.

myko is gut

you're welcome

Why not respond to spiffeh with that right away? He has since said that his reasons for suspecting myk and notty are weak. Myk being just gut, and he can't even come up with his reason for notty, just that things are there. So why the overreaction in the first place? Why does he try to justify it with not having the effort? To simply say there isn't much to your other reads, that doesn't take much effort. It reads to me like he didn't have any reason for his reads in the first place, except for the espe one, which I have said that it seemed just to be a rehash of what others have said. I don't think he is genuine at all.

[scotmany12]

I've mentioned that post a few times mollie, but just that I don't think espe and dav are scum together. I don't really think its more damning to one or the other. I had a conversation with myk about it, and its why I think he is town.

[scotmany12]

I would vote Aj over Davsto. I think Davsto's narrative for his disinterest in the game is genuine, whereas Aj is actively avoiding contribution to most aspects of the games but providing disingenuous and over-defensive reasoning for doing so.

yep. you are right star. scummate trying to dissuade interest in dave's lynch?

cos no1 else has said this. if you did I missed it star, sorry

Vote: Espeonage

If he doesn't come up scum, we better not keep letting davstro get by with his act.

[scotmany12]

I still want to lynch him right now, but apparently everyone just thinks he is genuine

[scotmany12]

Just so people know, I don't know why I quoted that mollie post when I switched to espy. I think i accidentally clicked on the multiquote button.

[scotmany12]

2612 is icky.

Why? And I'm gonna echo everyone else and ask you what the point of you unvoting there? Whether you intended to or not, its a derailment to a wagon that was gaining steam, someone you expressed interest on wanting to lynch.

I'm all for you just claiming right now espe.

[scotmany12]

unvote

[scotmany12]

Nexus, vote espe with us plz

[scotmany12]

Both. My suspicion against him was largely based on AJ, but I liked the points star made against espe.

[scotmany12]

3spooky5me

[scotmany12]

Was sick last night. Still not feeling great today. I approve of someone hammering, that claim is bullshit.

[scotmany12]

VOTE: Kmd4390

The avoidance from cdb on both of the lynches look very suspicious of me. This is all he had to say about the espe wagon:

There are worse wagons than Espeonage (I don't haaate a Starbuck vote but my paranoia on mollie is mild at most right now and I think the town is probably better off with her in it atm) but I can't get especially excited. If I were to move my vote, it would more likely be to Bins.

Nexus. What post from cdb made you change your mind on him and view him as him acting like town?

[scotmany12]

What makes you think people weren't thinking about it? Why would people back off of him if they didn't believe his claim?

[scotmany12]

What's your reasoning for voting for kmd, bins?

[scotmany12]

actually

VOTE: unvote

pedit - idk i had a good reason to townread him but then i didn't want to bet my read on that anymore but them i ISO'd him and i don't know why he's scum other than maybe because he disappeared D2

Then why vote for him before you ISO him? You're vote here is very suspect. (Unvote is bad too)

[scotmany12]

actually

VOTE: unvote

pedit - idk i had a good reason to townread him but then i didn't want to bet my read on that anymore but them i ISO'd him and i don't know why he's scum other than maybe because he disappeared D2

Then why vote for him before you ISO him? You're vote here is very suspect. (Unvote is bad too)

uh ok i don't see why either of those is bad

but ok

You placed a vote on the leading wagon, while you were also being pressured. Before I asked for you reasons, I ISOd you and tried to see if you had mentioned that you were becoming suspicious of CDB, because I remember you calling him bad. I did not see any of that. And had I not questioned you about it, I'm not so sure you still would have unvoted. It's a very opportunistic vote from you when you were also under pressure.

[scotmany12]

There was a typo in my post. It should say I remember you calling CDB town.

[scotmany12]

What logic flips?

And voting someone you don't even think is scum, instead of responding to the pressure on you, is scummy.

PEdit: this was directed at bins

[scotmany12]

What logic slips, bins?

[scotmany12]

QUICKLYNCH DAV?

Will be down for like a lot of others.
Probably not CBD, eh.
Maybe. Others are better.

And Mollie are you calling me or what?

Did you forget that you didn't even want to lynch CDB yesterday, after the Espe claim? Are you saying somewhere in the night phase you had a complete change of heart, thought CDB was scummy, and then after you ISOd him after your vote, you disagreed with yourself?

[scotmany12]

This is @both of you I like pressuring people that replace in

That was 50%
The other 50% is that I realized I could have been wrong about CBD
so I vote
checked
Realized I didn't like it

I just looked at your iso. People you didn't pressure after they replaced in: MattP (dropped all your suspicion of SC after the replacement), Mykonian, and Espeonage. Not once.

VOTE: Bins

[scotmany12]

Mollie is no longer town.

Tbh that vote is awful
Scot's feels opportunistic and reachy

Gj guys when I come back on Thursday I'll be scumread half the player list

Yeah. My vote on you isn't reachy at all. Let's start with this:

man even if Espe flips scum and was lying those posts are still fkn scummy

no town mentality should be "lets lynch the hider and not give him another night!!"

Setting up lynches for the next day. Anyone should be able to understand why people didn't believe that claim.

Then your defense against davstro today is pure wifom. Nexus correctly points this out as awful. Your reaction at the end of the day is null, at best. Scum could do it for exactly your defense, they think it makes them look town.

And then your vote on KMD. You have no reason for it. Your unvote is only after I questioned you about it. No, I don't believe that you would still have unvoted if I hadn't questioned you. It was a very opportunistic vote from you on someone you haven't expressed suspicion of, when you yourself were under some pressure. I hate your explanation for it. Saying you thought he was scummy (yeah not buying that) then that you unvoted him after you isod him and found yourself mistaken. I hate how you said you wanted to pressure a replacement, WHO WAS ALREADY BEING PRESSURED BY 4 OTHER PEOPLE, when you didn't do that for any other replacements. It's an inconsistent, unsatisfactory defense of your vote.

Then there is your entire incident with calling the davstro wagon weak while keeping your vote on it, while not really responding well to my pressure about that comment. Oh, and I like bbm's case on you.

[scotmany12]

This is @both of you I like pressuring people that replace in

That was 50%
The other 50% is that I realized I could have been wrong about CBD
so I vote
checked
Realized I didn't like it

I just looked at your iso. People you didn't pressure after they replaced in: MattP (dropped all your suspicion of SC after the replacement), Mykonian, and Espeonage. Not once.

VOTE: Bins

I don't do it every time...
I do it when I have no where better I've found yet. (After Thursday.)

This is what I mean by where are you even coming from?!

Like how does this make ANY sense?!
I immediately drop all my reads a good "OOOU REPLACEMENT LETS VOTE THEM!!!"

You dropped your read on CDB when he was replaced, soooooo

[scotmany12]

I don't really know what to say to you. My only thing is "I voted CBD slot cause I wanted to go somewhere before I reread on Thursday to get involved early D3." That's it.

Why wasn't this said right when I questioned you about it? And why did you choose the largest wagon?

KMD: What is bins doing that makes you think she is town?

[scotmany12]

UNVOTE

[scotmany12]

What do you think about what kmd said, bbm?

[scotmany12]

Who else do you think could be scum, spiff?

[scotmany12]

Mollie, convince me on why reck is scum, plz.

[scotmany12]

Can we please not turn this into a huge pissing match about who was insulted the most????

[scotmany12]

Mollie, convince me on why reck is scum, plz.

he isn't this wrong in games.

like ever.

That's an extremely flawed reasoning

[scotmany12]

Nexus. Who you think is scum?

[scotmany12]

Im just going to show them what we saw bins cause people seem to be oblivious as fuck in this game

[scotmany12]

KMD: What is bins doing that makes you think she is town?

scot, I knew she was town before all this stuff.

How others didn't pick up on this I don't know. It doesn't clear bins cause THERE IS A CONFIRMED BUSDRIVER, but still. Kmd isn't the lynch we want.

[scotmany12]

You guys really think we have a town vote thief thing?

[scotmany12]

I believe bbm saw it. He even responded to me. However, as I said, there is a bus driver. You aren't confirmed by any means.

That's a horrible post from you, bins.

[scotmany12]

No.

I said earlier it could have been a gambit.

Because wtf would target Nexus?

That's quite a stretch, really.

[scotmany12]

Kmd should probably claim instead of vaguely tossing around almost results.

What makes you think Zito targeting you is unlikely, bins? I'd think the exact opposite honestly.

the only reason Zito would target me would to be direct the kill onto me, and i don't think he did that

If he thought you were scum (and it was kinda looking that way at the end of the day) it makes sense.

[scotmany12]

How is his read stupid?

[scotmany12]

Flameaxe posted the foundation of the read on you...it's a big reason on why I think you're scummy. How can you not see where his is coming from?

[scotmany12]

By the way, either of you feel like voting?

Sure. Let's lynch notty.

VOTE: notscience

[scotmany12]

Yes I agree

Lets make me the counterwagon to yet another scumflip

That sounds like a great idea

Like what you were trying (I use that term lightly, cause you really were just skating through) all of day 2?

[scotmany12]

That's a question I ask myself every time I wake up.

[scotmany12]

We lynching notty right now, davbro. Come join us.

[scotmany12]

Oh because her last many many many posts are kinda shit

I can deal with it, since my beautiful wagon is empty.

VOTE: notscience

PEdit Spiffeh go home you're drunk

Also his avoidance of the espe wagon all of yesterday while she simply tunneled on CDB except for one switch to voting for you, despite him townreading you a day before, and admitting that he didn't even think you were scum.

[scotmany12]

Bins: notty can be either the sk or mafia! Win/win. Wagon up please.

[scotmany12]

I thought we had established notty as town as he was the counterwagon to Matt on D1?

No. It was a town point in his favor, but it didn't establish anything. Him then proceeding to not do anything but tunnel on cdb while avoiding everything about espe, is not a town point in his favor.

[scotmany12]

Awww . But it's such a fun wagon myk. You should join it.

[scotmany12]

But bbm's mom is anything but dissapointing

[scotmany12]

Gdi wtf is scum

notty. You should move your vote back there

[scotmany12]

I am a firm believer that NKA is a huge crock of horseshit and will not be partaking in any wagon that is based off of it

[scotmany12]

Don't like spiffehs nexus case. It's pretty meh to me.

Also, it's perfectly possible that kmd investigated bins last night, as he replaced in in the middle of the night.

[scotmany12]

What post from matt, Mollie?

[scotmany12]

Thats like the first time you pointed that out?

Okay. What do you see from that post?

[scotmany12]

Why are you voting me mollie

cos you look like the awkward child when the parents are fighting

At work and my break is almost over and I don't think I'll be able to get to this much tonight cause friend is having a crisis. Just wanted to say this made me laugh. Thanks mollie.

[scotmany12]

This post from CDB is giving me a hard time in relation to kmd's claim.

Catboi
Spiffeh
Scotmany
Pirate mollie
Marquis
CDB

Are all obvtown

I'm doing some ISO'ing and then I'll engage more specifically

I can't imagine that scum-MattP would not include at least one buddy in this kind of intended townbloc. I'm town, Marquis is flipped town, Spiffeh looks pretty town given Coug's lengthy thrashings-around with him, so I think there's at least one scum in {catboi, scotmany, mollie}.

Why wouldn't CDB vig one of these people? Are we to believe that he just decided to not even look for connections to SC/Matt until the day started?

[scotmany12]

Also. I really don't get your notty placement on your list ckd. What has he done to make him look town? Day one he just buddied up to Mollie, before voting for Matt. His vote on Matt was the only thing going for him, but we now know scum were happy to bus, as both Matt and Espe did that. His day two was pretty barren, admitting to not thinking either davbro or Espe to be scum, despite voting for dav. I'm still not even sure why he thought CDB was scum with the only reasoning being "Mollie/CDB interactions"

[scotmany12]

I still have an issue with cdb's vig choice, doesn't really make sense to me. But then why would scumkmd do this just so save bins?

[scotmany12]

I just don't understand why kmd would pull something like this as scum. I think this wagon is a mistake.

[scotmany12]

So, as scum, his thought process is to come in, crumb a result to save bins from a growing wagon? Why? Bins had three votes on her, compared to the two on him. Why would choose to save the leading wagon as scum? What benefit does he gain from keeping bins alive?

[scotmany12]

I would probably vig night one too. CDBs vig choice confuses the hell out of me, but I don't see the problem is choosing vig over cop n1. With all the unknowns and randomness that could happen night 1, I definitely wouldn't want to use up my investigate then.

[scotmany12]

What benefit does he gain from keeping bins alive? Scum could easily try to pull off this gambit without trying to save the leading wagon. Why would he choose bins as his investigation?

[scotmany12]

There is benefits to bussing as scum. I don't see any benefit for scum to do what kmd did. Give me a valid reason why he would choose bins as his investigation. Something other than "it makes him appear town."

[scotmany12]

Omg yay orcas

[scotmany12]

Why would he choose to save the leading wagon? Cause I'm not seeing it.

[scotmany12]

Espe or Davstro

[scotmany12]

Idk. Day vig is pretty awesome

[scotmany12]

K. So you can't answer why he would choose to pull this thing by saving bins, the leading wagon.

[scotmany12]

Cause bins was the leading wagon and it seems pretty silly for scum to get rid of a possible mislynch like that

[scotmany12]

It makes no sense for scum to do what he did. And it's not BS. You can't give a valid reason for it. This wagon is dumb.

[scotmany12]

That I have long eyelashes? I think my eyelashes are pretty normal size.

(I'm really not sure what you are asking me to argue about)

[scotmany12]

Then wouldn't the correct course of action be to lynch bins then?

[scotmany12]

And I just don't see scumkmd trying to pull something like this. I don't see any scum trying to pull something like this. It's not just crumbling a power role. It's crumbling a power role to try to stop the leading wagon on a scummy player. I'm not gonna hammer him.

The only possibility I can see of him being scum is if bins is scum with him. And then the correct move would be to lynch bins rather than lynch the claimed power role.

[scotmany12]

And I also don't see scum claiming a joat over a cop in this situation. And the more I think of it, I don't see scum claiming the person they replaced to have killed someone night 1 when there was no kill. The amount of risk there, the amount of stuff he has to defend, it just doesn't scream something that scum are willing to try.

[scotmany12]

This is my first game in forever. I don't even know if I played with kmd before. This isn't based on meta. I don't see scum trying to pull this off.

[scotmany12]

Well technically second game in forever but let's not remember greater idea

[scotmany12]

I never claimed to believe his claim based on meta. I'm saying I don't see any reason for scum to do this, I don't think scum would do this, I don't think he is scum.

[scotmany12]

For scum to do this, they have to actively decide, in the spot of the moment when bins is being attacked, to crumb an innocent on bins (makes no sense to get rid of a building wagon like that as scum). They then have to claim joat, instead of a much easier cop claim. They then have to claim that the person they replaced used the vig night one, when there was only one kill, rather than the roleblock. Why would he go through all of this? Why would scum make this gambit more risky than it has to be?

[scotmany12]

For scum to do this, they have to actively decide, in the spot of the moment when bins is being attacked, to crumb an innocent on bins (makes no sense to get rid of a building wagon like that as scum). They then have to claim joat, instead of a much easier cop claim. They then have to claim that the person they replaced used the vig night one, when there was only one kill, rather than the roleblock. Why would he go through all of this? Why would scum make this gambit more risky than it has to be?

You've seen scum pull off this elaborate, diabolical, master plan before?