Mini 1735 - Mana Khemia: Mafia in Al-Revis [End]

[itlepip]

VOTE: Gilgamesh King Of Heroes since Of shouldn't be capital.

[itlepip]

aa

Best post this game. Nothing could ever possibly top this.

[itlepip]

I'm liking this hydra (in a NAI way).

@mollie, i feel a little exaggerated right now!

well, what you guys are doing is a bit cartoonish!

can we plz lynch anti now.

Why is anti scum?

[itlepip]

Anti is scum because-

A) Because his role pm reads scum

B) Because he has access to the scum pt

C) Because he didn't pray to rngeezus hard enough

pyp

Makes sense
VOTE: Anti

[itlepip]

Why, spiffeh

Teeny pocket attempt read

VOTE: spiffeh

[itlepip]

Heh, I meant for my vote to be on pocket for trying to pocket me, just mistyped the name.

Honestly though right now I'm happy with the vote on Spiffeh so its gunna stay.

[itlepip]

The only possible town bloc is cold pizza and his town reads.

[itlepip]

itlepip.
tell me something about what you currently think of 3dice.

better than 2dice.

His only real comment is his town read on pocket, which I don't understand, so I guess marginal scum lean until he explains it?

[itlepip]

spiff seems more calculating now.
back to the nullpile you go!

is anyone not in your nullpile?

[itlepip]

cold pizza is leaning town.
3dice is leaning scum.

isn't pizza conf town or am I missing something?

[itlepip]

His only real comment is his town read on pocket, which I don't understand, so I guess marginal scum lean until he explains it?

so him not explaining a townread is leaning scummy for you?
can you talk more about this?

not really. I think that a read + simple explanation by itself is null, so a read without an explanation is slightly less towny.

[itlepip]

Yes on itlepip

Is your entire game just trying to push random wagons?

[itlepip]

pagetop.

Pedit: shit
pedit2: double shit.

get wrecked son.

[itlepip]

The prosecution would like to present post 67 to his glorious Majesty as an example of earlier example of wagon pushing.

We are not insinuating that the great Majesty didn't make a mistake, but that such a detail about an ignoble person would be beneath your majesty's attention.


*bows

[itlepip]

so can anyone tell me why lynching the miller is a bad idea
because i can kinda see why it's a good idea but not much as to why it would be bad

First off deciding on a lynch 1 rl day into the game means that there will be content going into day 2.

Second and much more importantly is that all the miller means is that we can't investigate that person. Announcing it immediately is correct meta wise that unless we actually have no idea who to lynch 2 weeks from now, the only reason for us to lynch the miller is if he is independently scummy.

Also third I don't see any real advantage of lynching miller here.

[itlepip]

Maxous it's the fact that he discredits my vote on him by saying I'm pushing random wagons (which isn't true), and only really comments on that without giving insight to the rest of the game.

That is scummy.

And why are you acting like this isn't a method of discerning alignment?

Okay, so what was your initial reason for starting the wagon?
You said "hey lets start a wagon on itlepip", then essentially copy pasted that same post about 10 more times in the thread, and that is all you have done after RVS. The only explanation for your read has been my reaction to your wagon, so unless you could somehow foresee my reaction to your wagon, deemed it scummy and started a wagon on me because of that you have provided no other explanation for why I am scum. So either give whatever scum read you had on me when you started the wagon that you withheld in order to say "join my wagon plsssssssss" or admit that you push random wagons.

I don't actually mind random wagons early game, but when there is no actual accusation in it and then you misrepresent why you started the wagon, I first off don't have anything to defend so there is no real pressure and second have absolutely no idea how that helps town at all.

[itlepip]

Anti probably hasn't caught up to the child conf. It is not like there is any reason for scum or town to ever vote for pizza.

[itlepip]

Heh, I meant for my vote to be on pocket for trying to pocket me, just mistyped the name.

Honestly though right now I'm happy with the vote on Spiffeh so its gunna stay.

This is what you started the wagon for?

[itlepip]

Was my reasoning weak? Yes.

Did your subsequent reaction to my vote make me more comfortable keeping it? Yes.

You just said that my reaction was what caused you to be comfortable with your wagon, so I linked my reaction.

Really a joke post 3 pages into the game was your scum read?

[itlepip]

You just said that my reaction was what caused you to be comfortable with your wagon, so I linked my reaction.

But you asked if that's why I started the wagon. That is not why I started the wagon.

Really a joke post 3 pages into the game was your scum read?

Yeah. Would you like to point me to something else scummy in those three pages that I didn't address?

First let's not be asinine with each other. Scum reading a joke post that isn't about the game should only ever be a meta read, which I am sure you don't have on me and certainly isn't evidence of scum.
Second

idk spiffeh, that seems overly aggressive for a weak reason

@CP: not really, no.

This could easily and was pushed.

Honestly going back to the question of why you started the wagon was probably this post. You posted 3-4 times after my joke post without mentioning and then after CB said this you jumped on the wagon and went back to try to find a passable attack.

All of that is fine that early in the game, but 11 pages in having a hard scum read based on a joke is ridiculous. I don't think that my joke post was actually what you think was the scummiest thing this game, so I think you are trying to go back and make excuses and are slipping up.

[itlepip]

Wait, Saki why are you voting Suzune?

[itlepip]

@itlepip could you respond to post 262 please? Particularly the part where I ask you to point to what you thought was scummy in the first few pages since you don't your joke post could possibly be the scummiest thing I was reading at that time.

thx bbygirl

Will respond to other stuff later.

Already answered this one, not really interested in going back to the whole semantics debate, so if you are going to do I would prefer if you did it with someone else.

[itlepip]

7351617

[itlepip]

261

[itlepip]

Redacted

Removed content not meant for this game

Wrong thread

[itlepip]

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking.

Clearly itlepip is paying attention closely enough to see that my post wasn't meant for here but he can't answer my question or contribute elsewhere?

I don't really have an opinion on the whole Anti thing, I personally think that sort of stuff is NAI and even if it is it kinda spoils the game for me so I choose to ignore it. Past that not much has happened aside from a weird semantics argument between Gilgamesh and Notty that I think Gil won but I doubt matters. I have read the last few pages, but I just don't have anything to add and as I learned in another game saying things when you don't have strong opinions of the matter is pretty bad.

Also I did answer your question, in the post before you asked the question. The reason I left that argument is because you were asking the exact same questions over and over and your problems with my responses were minor semantics. If you feel there is anything that is actually a significant scumtell, please post it.


Here is post 261 so you can actually read it and find your answer.

Spoiler: 261

You just said that my reaction was what caused you to be comfortable with your wagon, so I linked my reaction.

But you asked if that's why I started the wagon. That is not why I started the wagon.

Really a joke post 3 pages into the game was your scum read?

Yeah. Would you like to point me to something else scummy in those three pages that I didn't address?

First let's not be asinine with each other. Scum reading a joke post that isn't about the game should only ever be a meta read, which I am sure you don't have on me and certainly isn't evidence of scum.
Second

idk spiffeh, that seems overly aggressive for a weak reason

@CP: not really, no.

This could easily and was pushed.

Honestly going back to the question of why you started the wagon was probably this post. You posted 3-4 times after my joke post without mentioning and then after CB said this you jumped on the wagon and went back to try to find a passable attack.

All of that is fine that early in the game, but 11 pages in having a hard scum read based on a joke is ridiculous. I don't think that my joke post was actually what you think was the scummiest thing this game, so I think you are trying to go back and make excuses and are slipping up.

PEdit:Because it objectively was a semantics argument. I was talking about why you started my wagon and all you did is talk about the difference between why you started the wagon and the evidence that you got for the wagon a few posts later. When you are giving politician answers to my questions instead of actually addressing them, I generally will just move on and drop a vote on you instead of trying to get you to actually answer the question.

Either you think that you were pushing me due to my response to your wagon, which doesn't make sense because you have to have the wagon before I respond to it or the whole wagon was based on that joke post which you admitted was an incredibly weak reason for pushing my wagon. Either way it doesn't hold up and you going on like you had some highground in the argument is making me scumread you.

[itlepip]

i could also use a golden scepter to shove up my ass but i don't see anyone handing me one

I'll give you one if you vote spiffeh :P

[itlepip]

I'm not planning to, I'm just having problems figuring out why I have the biggest wagon right now. Spiffeh I have gone over, die and maxous jsut sseems to be voting me for lurking. Mario has admitted to not having any reads at this point so I don't consider that an 'actual' vote on my slot until he explains his read, which he should do if he isn't planning to unvote.

For Maxous, you shouldn't just PoE between the biggest wagons, so the whole Saki is more towny than itle I don't actually take as a scumread. Personally I don't actually read Saki as scum, the whole red post thing was dumb, in nearly all games a single mafia faction is red, if I make a name red everyone knows that means a mafia read on that person. I think Saki's wagon is a little suspect as well, I think notty is fairly towny but both CB and Gil and have recent posts that had some logic that felt flimsy to me, so I think both of them are slight scumleans for me.

[itlepip]

like seriously, how are you even trying to hardpush someone as scum for using a word that i used to describe the back-and-forth between the two of you?
that doesnt make any sense.
at all.

Are you seriously boiling down my reasons for scum reading him to that?
Yes that is a contributing factor but it is not the only reason why I am hard-pushing him.

Then why the F are you hard pushing me. For someone that goes on and on about not responding to posts you haven't responded to any of my recent ones and I have at least addressed all of your posts or explained why they were BS. I'm not even positive that you are scum here, but you seemed just to pick someone to death-tunnel and you seem so stuck on that one read without giving any good explanation, that play doesn't make any sense from a town point of view unless you are an insane early-start cop that got a scum result on me.

[itlepip]

The only reason I found is the whole joke post thing, but you said that wasn't the reason so I have no clue.

Gork wanna wagon itlepip?

VOTE: itlepip

My vote on itlepip is entirely serious.

I even wrote up a case check it out!

mollie can you join my itlepip wagon?

Yes on itlepip

Yes on itlepip

Is your entire game just trying to push random wagons?

Someone's a little self conscious

No CB itlepip had yet to say anything game relevant whereas you had.

Okay, so what was your initial reason for starting the wagon?
You said "hey lets start a wagon on itlepip", then essentially copy pasted that same post about 10 more times in the thread, and that is all you have done after RVS. The only explanation for your read has been my reaction to your wagon, so unless you could somehow foresee my reaction to your wagon, deemed it scummy and started a wagon on me because of that you have provided no other explanation for why I am scum. So either give whatever scum read you had on me when you started the wagon that you withheld in order to say "join my wagon plsssssssss" or admit that you push random wagons.

I don't actually mind random wagons early game, but when there is no actual accusation in it and then you misrepresent why you started the wagon, I first off don't have anything to defend so there is no real pressure and second have absolutely no idea how that helps town at all.

Here is my reason for wanting to start a wagon on you:

itlepop opts to make a joke instead of contribute to discussion in post 76 when enough stuff was going on to talk about.

Just because I didn't state the reason right when I voted for you doesn't mean I chose you arbitrarily.

Did you miss that?

You just said that my reaction was what caused you to be comfortable with your wagon, so I linked my reaction.

But you asked if that's why I started the wagon. That is not why I started the wagon.

Really a joke post 3 pages into the game was your scum read?

Yeah. Would you like to point me to something else scummy in those three pages that I didn't address?

I don't actually mind random wagons early game, but when there is no actual accusation in it and then you misrepresent why you started the wagon, I first off don't have anything to defend so there is no real pressure and second have absolutely no idea how that helps town at all.

Also where did I ever misrepresent why I started the wagon?

[itlepip]

@Itlepip - The death tunnel is two ways apparently

I said that there is a chance that Spiffeh is town and I'm reacting too strongly to his mindless death tunnel.
Speaking of which, are you still voting me for lurking?

[itlepip]

Actually, I like most of Spiffeh's posts that don't pertain to me, as few as they are. Mario I don't like at all here. His gutlist seems to be more based on quality of posts than actual scum intent, the people that are the lowest on his seem to be the ones that would be least likely to rail on him for his list. I don't understand Mario's point about Suzanne at all, null reading someone that hasn't posted much seems reasonable to me.

VOTE: Mario

PEdit: because he has only 3-4 posts so far, your Pedit kinda proves my point about you.

[itlepip]

I'm not planning to, I'm just having problems figuring out why I have the biggest wagon right now. Spiffeh I have gone over, die and maxous jsut sseems to be voting me for lurking. Mario has admitted to not having any reads at this point so I don't consider that an 'actual' vote on my slot until he explains his read, which he should do if he isn't planning to unvote.

For Maxous, you shouldn't just PoE between the biggest wagons, so the whole Saki is more towny than itle I don't actually take as a scumread. Personally I don't actually read Saki as scum, the whole red post thing was dumb, in nearly all games a single mafia faction is red, if I make a name red everyone knows that means a mafia read on that person. I think Saki's wagon is a little suspect as well, I think notty is fairly towny but both CB and Gil and have recent posts that had some logic that felt flimsy to me, so I think both of them are slight scumleans for me.

itlepip all these reads are very noncommittal and fluffy.

Why is Saki's wagon suspect?
Why do you think notty is town?
What posts made you feel that CB and Gil had flimsy logic?

1. Because I think the CB and Gil potentially scum and I don't really see the reasoning for the wagon, one the big concerns I have is that I'm not happy with any of the wagons we have today, so I think there is a very good chance of a mislynch today.
2. I liked both Molly and Notty's early posts in the hydra and Notty recent play doesn't indicate any scumminess.
3. In 500 Gil seems to be misrepping Saki fairly hard. CB I think I am going to have to work on, they seem to either be town pushing or scum fence sitting depending on how I read it. I like the logic but CB seems to be reading the majority of the people in the thread as scum. Also I kinda feel pocketed.

[itlepip]

@Itlepip - The death tunnel is two ways apparently

I said that there is a chance that Spiffeh is town and I'm reacting too strongly to his mindless death tunnel.
Speaking of which, are you still voting me for lurking?

But obviously not that big of a chance because you were still voting him here?

Yes and no. It's part lurking, part gut, and part I think you are trying to look like you are doing stuff when you are pretty much doing nothing.

I'm voting for mario, also I think a lot of people haven't done anything, Mario is the first to come to mind with hsi I still can't get any reads thing, but neither you nor spiffeh have really contributed anything serious this game. Gil has made 2 posts that are meaningful to the game so he is clearly in that pile too.

[itlepip]

Are you really saying I haven't contributed anything serious to the game?

I have proved time and time again my vote on you is 100% serious and you keep trying to discredit it so you can be lynched now.

yes.

[itlepip]

That innocent child is cold pizza

Who hasn't posted in ages and isn't in any way leading town to victory.

[itlepip]

That innocent child is cold pizza

Who hasn't posted in ages and isn't in any way leading town to victory.

I must agree they are quite quiet.

heh 'quite quiet'


in before spiffeh or 3die yell at me for making a joke post, 3die, you haven't developed any more reads than I have, and I have explained most of mine.

[itlepip]

You can stop being smug. It actually doesn't look good on you.

Just saying, but if we lynch Saki. I will promise fresh cookies (of your choice) to everyone on the wagon.

~R

hey, only the dark side has cookies, you must be scum.

[itlepip]

Holy shit Maxous you got pocketed there. In your 'why mario is town' all he did is post an ordering of names with no reasoning and then said that you are town and that is all you need to shout "MARIO IS CONF TOWN GUYZ"

[itlepip]

People should really get in this game and post their aversion to the ittlepip wagon.

Things have been grinding along real slow-like for a Day 1.
This feels like a scum-wagon feels, where it takes that extra 'oomph' of a push to knock it over the ledge.

@Itle: Pretty sure Maxous covered more than just the reads list there. If he's getting buddied, it's probably also due to how Mario handled the Miller claim.

The posts he quoted in 766 were "I dunno what the game is" the list of people with no evidence or explanation and then "hey I think maxous's miller claim is super towny". Saying that that any of those posts is towny is baffling to me, and the only one that had anything that could be read was the Maxous buddying, which it looks like MM4 completely bought.

[itlepip]

The posts read as genuine overwhelmed town.
I don't think he's scum-faking it.

Like, I think you are town here since I don't think that scum would throw out that MM read, but I don't see how any of his three posts are towny at all.

[itlepip]

From what I have observed from MM4 is that he usually plays like this, so I think he could be an easy mis-lynch.

Dude, talk to Mario, I'm an easy mislynch...saying that someone's playstyle is kinda scummy doesn't make them town. I've made awkward posts in literally every game I've played and they have been scumread. I got mislynched d1 in a game I was playing with Mario, but I don't say 'hey I played bad in this other game so I'm excused from playing bad here' and someone else saying it about me doesn't make it any more valid. Same thing applies to Mario.

[itlepip]

I'm still not a fan of the suzanne wagon, I feel like it is the targeting of a new player over any shown scum intent. I will join the wagon if no other wagon seems likely near DL, but I still think there are better targets.

[itlepip]

itlepip who do you think is scum other than Mario?

Honestly I am planning to go over the game again to answer that question, but you are still in that pile for now. Gilgamesh I'm not a super fan of but I don't know how people differentiate town disinterest and scum disinterest so that read is kinda sketchy. Honestly Suzanne is a town lean for me, so lynching people like anti or saki who I think are more null would be better in my opinion than Suzanne.

[itlepip]

-______-

That's the theory.

Where is the evidence for the theory

Also, I feel like the way that Suzanne has approached the game seems towny just from a gut perspective, the waffling of reads feels like it is what she feels based on reading the game regardless of what the current game state is and how in might be read by others. Her goals seem to be more developing reads then worrying about being read town which I think is towny.

Also I have no idea why people are voting Suzanne.

[itlepip]

-______-

That's the theory.

A theory is an educated guess that can be proven or disproven.

A conclusion is the end result.

Things go up must come down. That can be tested.

[X Y Z are scum is a conclusion. What can we test to get to that result?

I think it does qualify as a theory

Spoiler: definition of theory (sorry for being that person)

Theory:a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

The problem is that the theory is still completely unsubstantiated.

[itlepip]

;-;

yeah im too lazy to pull it all up

Rogue, don't say that you are bored and really want to play and then say you are too lazy to actually procure evidence for your reads.

[itlepip]

@itepip, I don't view Schrödinger's cat as a theory. But that's semantic. We're getting at the same way.

Schrodinger's cat is an analogy to explain the implications of collapsing the wave function. There isn't a cat equation or a testable theory of cat killing that is a result of Schrodinger's cat so is doesn't qualify as a theory. Also yeah we agree so this conversation is pointless.

[itlepip]

;-;

yeah im too lazy to pull it all up

Rogue, don't say that you are bored and really want to play and then say you are too lazy to actually procure evidence for your reads.

This type attitude is why the game is stalling. No one wants to lead.

I've asked people to explain the Suzanne scum read and explained why I read her town and no one has answered me. You are kinda guilty here too, so would you be so kind to explain your read?

[itlepip]

Hi fire, read the game and then vote Mario. Everything Mario says makes me want to lynch him more.

[itlepip]

Yeah you have to go further than an important role if you want me to unvote. I still hate the Suzanne wagon

[itlepip]

I would be willing to vote for saki

[itlepip]

VOTE: Saki

[itlepip]

zzzzzzzzzz.
3dice.
theres a day left in the cycle.
why are you even trying to pitch speed of wagon as meaning anything?

Maybe because one player I've felt uneasy about all game and one player I'm scumreading just hopped on it?

Do you have any reads besides me being scum?? you are worse than spiffeh, who at least moved the game forward and developed other reads.

[itlepip]

I never asked for a claim, I just said that the soft claim is bad and I don't like Mario for it. Especially at L-3, claiming a really important PR but not specifying which tells scum to kill him without giving town information in order to determine if Mario is town or not.

[itlepip]

Yeah you have to go further than an important role if you want me to unvote.

I still hate the Suzanne wagon

What can this imply other than wanting a full role claim?

Also, what if mm4 super important town role is like a BP? Then scum would shoot him and he wouldn't die. Town knowing him as BP would be useless and just ward scum away from lynching him.

I didn't consider some WIFOM, assuming I live to tomorrow I'll talk about it but for now I think it is best to let the matter die. Claiming at l-3 is still dumb, and claiming 'an important role' doesn't put the same burden of proof as actually claiming a role, hence why I said that I wouldn't unvote because of the softclaim.

[itlepip]

Mario, what is your take on Saki? you only have 1 post in which you ever actually have her name in it, which is your blank readlist where she is just in the middle.

[itlepip]

Kinda sad I am not in that list, wanna vote saki ank?

[itlepip]

I don't like people getting pissy when it looks like they might be lynched.

[itlepip]

I don't like people getting pissy when it looks like they might be lynched.

tbh it didnt even look like i was going to be lynched until i self voted

That is fair.

[itlepip]

Okay.
We have literally one day.
You shouldn't lynch me because I am an important power role. I will clarify if needed.
Vote itlepip please.

This.

Also intent to hammer.

[itlepip]

sure

taking back intent to hammer.

[itlepip]

softclaim my role could affect NKs, but I don't think it did.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Titus welp, I cc.

[itlepip]

Considering I am not a master of soft claims, therefore I do not think I have made any. However, there was been one night in game so far and my target was antihero. I chose them because j have played with them before and they have been amazing late game with reasoning out the system, so o hoped to hear more of their reads. My second thought was charolette because I get good town feelings from them and that they seem to to after things that interest them.

suzune is a doc but she didn't protect cold pizza.. :?

or mario...

[itlepip]

ooh 1 shot doc, nvm, I am 1 shot bulletproof. UNVOTE:

[itlepip]

Dude, it's totally possible scum shot Rogue?

can you explain this to me please?

[itlepip]

how could Rogue have been shot?
Also, CB are you okay with the suzune lynch now?

[itlepip]

how could Rogue have been shot?
Also, CB are you okay with the suzune lynch now?

There could be a vig, if it's not the scum target.

wtf. I was asking why titus thought that Rogue was shot.

I am liking the suzune 3die team a lot right now.

[itlepip]

Doc Suzune not protecting Cold Pizza = scum

i already said why I did not protect him.

Why not mario, the guy that claimed an important power role...

[itlepip]

VOTE: Suzune

[itlepip]

certainly the first 3 votes anyway

^says the third vote...

[itlepip]

Activate: PURIFYING

vote: Suzune

VOTE: Suzune

VOTE: Suzune

-Ank

what is this? is this a role thing? does this mean we should kill Suzune? HELP ME UNDERSTAND!

[itlepip]

I'm scared...

[itlepip]

I had a good long chuckle at the idea that was just a really drawn out troll. That better actually do something.

[itlepip]

Wait, so nothing happens...

[itlepip]

Fucking called it

at least vote Suzune...

[itlepip]

Myself, Titus and 3dr better not be roleblocked tonight

Why 3dr?

Also I feel like that last vote was attempted distancing of scum before she dies. I am still in favor of killing Suzune here though.

[itlepip]

Also I feel like that last vote was attempted distancing of scum before she dies. I am still in favor of killing Suzune here though.

If I was scum I would not sell them out that way, that would put them in danger and it is a common trick and I like to think I am more clever then that.

^scum claim. One of 3die and rogue should be investigated tonight.

Pedit: Does anyone know any roles that have anything like the purify effect? FTR if it does do something negative and CB still doesn't say anything about it I am definitely in favor of a CB lynch tomorrow.

[itlepip]

why would you distrust such a spooky play?

Because you did it to get a reaction. However, I strongly believe you did not get the one you intended.

The thing is I have never seen such a huge play, so I have absolutely no idea what to think of it besides sheer admiration.

PEDit:nope nope nope, why is that a thing that you... oh wait, you lied again, damn it... I don't even know anymore, CB, can you just say if that actually did something please, I can't go on like this.

PEdit 2: I don't.

[itlepip]

No, Suzune. No character in the game strikes me as the type that would just be put as a doctor and called a day.

@Itlepip: Does it look like it did something?

-Ank

no... titus and maxous are talking, 3die isn't.... the mod didn't say anything so I don't think it did anything, but apparently it applies to you role so I don't know what that means, like I could post

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWv5K0aqRj0[/youtube]

, but I am not sure it helps discern anything about the game.

[itlepip]

ggs