Mini 1735 - Mana Khemia: Mafia in Al-Revis [End]

[CharlotteBebe]

I like my pizza hot

vote: 3dice

[CharlotteBebe]

easy money.

[CharlotteBebe]

3dice and cold pizza are both boring.
and 3dice doesnt have a gimmick to justify his boringness.
choo choo.

[CharlotteBebe]

hi.

[CharlotteBebe]

im hoping people start being less boring by page 2.
especially since theres a train to catch.

[CharlotteBebe]

also to clarify we are not in a hood with gilly we are in a hood with spiffeh who hasn't posted yet.

i will now be paranoid of this.

a varsoon quicklynch.

do i get to know if its policy or not?

vote: pizza

[CharlotteBebe]

I think I'm on L-1 if Anti's doublevote counts.

hopefully.
thatd be exciting.

[CharlotteBebe]

youre actually scum this game arent you.
you jerk.

[CharlotteBebe]

going for the fake ic claim?

[CharlotteBebe]

too varSoon.

[CharlotteBebe]

Hi.

Anything interesting happening?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

yup.
isnt it exciting!?
dont you want to get lynched before you can become disengaged and disinterested in the game?

[CharlotteBebe]

Hi.

Anything

interesting

happening?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Keeping vote on conf. town

is scum

wagon

vote: cold pizza

[CharlotteBebe]

VOTE: CharlotteBebe

Keeping vote on conf. town

is scum

wagon

Also yes I'm in a neighborhood w/ PFoS yay

What makes this a scum trait more than a town trait?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

You are opting not to do so.

yes.
i am doing this to try and prevent myself from seeming scummy.
that makes sense.

p-edit: ;D

[CharlotteBebe]

i would vote itlepip.
someone start the wagon so i can seem less scummy by not leading the charge.

[CharlotteBebe]

VOTE: CharlotteBebe

Keeping vote on conf. town

is scum

wagon

Also yes I'm in a neighborhood w/ PFoS yay

What makes this a scum trait more than a town trait?

-Ank

Your vote can be on 11 other people that actually have a chance of reacting in a way that can help progress the game.
You are opting not to do so.

You're better than this. The fact that you're pressuring us on this at all inherently disproves your statement.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

@mollie, i feel a little exaggerated right now!

[CharlotteBebe]

Unless it's a reaction test in which case you suck

What exactly did you assume this was if it wasn't a reaction test, considering your reasoning looks to be based on it being one?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

hi spiff.
sorry about your ego.

[CharlotteBebe]

wat are you guys doing

dont worry.
and i think ank would probably be pushing spiff harder right now/voting him if i wasnt a part of this hydra.

also i feel weird that i inherently kind of trust you mollie
i dont like it.

well, what you guys are doing is a bit cartoonish!

i got the reactions i wanted.
3diceguy and itle ignored an ic flipping and a guy voting the ic.
dunno how thats not scummier than anti whos actually giving me okay vibes so far

[CharlotteBebe]

Gork wanna wagon itlepip?

you first.
i thought i made that clear.

[CharlotteBebe]

vote: itle

[CharlotteBebe]

itlepip.
tell me something about what you currently think of 3dice.

[CharlotteBebe]

I think spiffeh goes after shiny things.

spiffeh reminds me of bbt right now.
and it makes me want to shrug at the idea of lynching or scumreading him right now.
anti wagon doesnt make sense to me if it isnt just an rvs wagon and if it is an rvs wagon then thats silly!

[CharlotteBebe]

spiff seems more calculating now.
back to the nullpile you go!

[CharlotteBebe]

cold pizza is leaning town.
3dice is leaning scum.

[CharlotteBebe]

oh yeah! zex's opening pinged me too but i cant tell if its one of those "wow ur so awkward u must be scum *that person then proceeds to flip town*"-reads.

[CharlotteBebe]

His only real comment is his town read on pocket, which I don't understand, so I guess marginal scum lean until he explains it?

so him not explaining a townread is leaning scummy for you?
can you talk more about this?

[CharlotteBebe]

@anti, so ignore pocket and talk about other stuff instead of being boring.

@pizzahead, good.

[CharlotteBebe]

VOTE: Antihero

Why haven't I gotten a townread on you yet?

oops

[CharlotteBebe]

nullread me.
then i dont have to explain why we're still here lategame.

[CharlotteBebe]

Is this Sir Gorkington or Lord Ankamius?

i dont do proper formatting.
ank does.

b/c you haven't wagoned hard enough

[CharlotteBebe]

mollie.
have you had any scumgames recently where you absolutely destroyed town? like super duper hard?
if so can you link me them?

[CharlotteBebe]

spiff it feels so weird that youre still putting on a face right now :/
im gonna go to bed instead of puzzling about it.

[CharlotteBebe]

-gork

we destroyed the other scumteam what are you talking about

i wasnt making a joke.
i want your scum meta at its most recent/best.

right now i would be most comfortable with the idea of roping 3dice/mario.

in other news i spent about ten seconds being really disappointed in ank for failing at hydra posting.
thanks for that saki.

[CharlotteBebe]

CB I have no idea what you're talking about

Ank I like to overreact early on so people have things to talk about

itlepop opts to make a joke instead of contribute to discussion in post 76 when enough stuff was going on to talk about. Then OMGUS votes me.

i have a hard time believing youre not overly exaggerating yourself with this itle case based on how you described your reaction to us, given that apparently you were overreacting when you were voting us and you were voting us for essentially the same reason youre voting itle besides him omgusing you.

[CharlotteBebe]

i feel demotivated.

[CharlotteBebe]

FoS on CharlotteBebe

y

VOTE: charlottebebe

y

seriously ive actually started playing like i usually.
anyone scumreading me from this point on is earning my ire for ignoring my towngame vibes.

That logic does not make any sense. It seems like you are trying to do what you just accused Spiffeh of.

why is hypocrisy scummy? why is his logic being wrong scummy?

No CB itlepip had yet to say anything game relevant whereas you had.

why is saying game relevant things town? talk at me about why you think scum would willfully avoid giving content when they are under pressure to do so.

[CharlotteBebe]

Who voted in #234?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

and have you ever seen this scumtell in action and caught someone with it?

[CharlotteBebe]

He wasn't under pressure to do so. This isn't my only reason for scumreading him either.

so why did you get chummy with me when i started providing content after coming under pressure? shouldnt i have stayed in the same spot on your readslist and received more pressure from you as a result?

Maybe not necessarily caught someone with it, but it has led to either a scummy reaction from them or town reaction, which has either led to the pursuit of their lunch or me backing off.

im reading into this interaction more and im really not seeing how maxous is being a hypocrite here.
to me it seems like hes saying that the majority of what spiff is doing comes across as him starting from a conclusion and working backwards, and despite agreeing that a point is valid, it doesnt discredit the rest of what maxous is saying and to boil down everything hes saying into "this is hypocritical!" comes across as reductive in a way i dont like.
talk to me about why maxous discredits his own case on spiff if hes scum whos grasping at straws.

[CharlotteBebe]

yeah but its not going to be tonight

then when can we expect your presence in this game?

Lady mollie was the person who laid our sword on the prospect of your death.

if mollie is town this game, i am going to expect genuine effort from her end on sorting people.
a naked vote and some softball questions does not a town mollie make.
and a gimmick does not a townnotty make either.
consider this me saying that im glaring at both of you for playing a damn mild and safe opening.

And once again I encourage you to go back and show me something scummier where my vote would have been justified.

i encourage you to explain why you are arguing messy semantics with a scumread. ftr youre pinging scummy and itle seems townish from these last few exchanges.
articulate clearly why youre scumreading him pls.

Did your subsequent reaction to my vote make me more comfortable keeping it? Yes.

But you asked if that's why I started the wagon. That is not why I started the wagon.

this was an annoying way to respond to him since it should be clear he was looking for the reason for you were keeping your vote..
in any case,

Is your entire game just trying to push random wagons?

i think its pretty fair to say that your play this game could have been seen as pushing random wagons if itle wasnt paying close attention. if you disagree then articulate why very clearly or else ;D
and you hardpushing this one point does earnestly feel a lot more like scum trying to take advantage of a single gotcha point than it does town who's being overeager to catch scum early.
like, youre arguing semantics with itle instead of pressuring him at this point and just kind of holding on to "oh man omgus and a lie [which isnt really a lie] he is scum!". i just get this very distinct vibe that youre uncomfortable right now.

but i'll hold on to some of my cards on you for now >:D
talk to me about some of the other cast in this game.
whats your read on pocket/3dice/mario?

Because you started providing content after coming under pressure. ???
I don't see why you'd think that.

i feel like i did? :/

[CharlotteBebe]

How is this arguing semantics?

"go and show me something scummier than what im voting you for" seems like a waste of time to be arguing someone over, especially since youre pushing him.

He's trying to act like my whole scum read on him is based on his one joke post:

except you were being dodgy with explaining exactly what you were scumreading him for at the time of him making that post in a way that makes it seem pretty plausible that he would see your vote as such.
and you continually trying to frame this as "HE IS IGNORING MY REASONING" when you werent being absolutely clear with what your reasoning was still feels like youre intentionally trying to simplify the situation.

I'm townreading Pocket from our neighborhood

can you articulate this more clearly?

I'd like to ask for the intent of this post.

it seemed like the sort of thing varsoon would do.

[CharlotteBebe]

erm...I naked vote all of the time? both of you shld know that.

it seems lazy.

and notty is fine, does give you a way to tell us apart? then why are you complaining

because gimmicks like the one notty is using are annoying to decipher and are easy for scum to hide behind.

[CharlotteBebe]

yup!
its part of why i dont like your play thus far!

[CharlotteBebe]

i'll come back to it when i feel like following in-depth points that i dont feel strongly about.
slightly hungover today.

[CharlotteBebe]

complaining that youre naked voting =/= me finding your play thus far plausibly coming from the same thread as the scumgame you linked.
i havent really articulated my thoughts there yet nor do i find them particularly compelling.
and the gimmick really isnt alignment indicative, im saying that its arguably a lot easier for scum to hide behind that kind of tactic, not that notty chose to use that tactic as scum.

[CharlotteBebe]

basically i find it questionable that i have so many things that you could be picking at right now.
youre picking at my response to you, but thats about it.
in ff it seemed like you did a similar thing with titus where you pushed her without really trying to figure her out.
in other games ive seen you ask scumreads questions.
where this reaction now is similar to what ive seen there, it seems reactionary, rather than proactive.
but im getting way too wordy and i kind of want to stop talking.

[CharlotteBebe]

wow yeah cause i claimed to read all of it.
are you intentionally trying to misrep me?
i havent said youre scum.
im just making a point that nothing either of you have done is reading as particularly town and it makes me wary
are you that incapable of reading into words that are coming out of my mouth?
fucking christ.

[CharlotteBebe]

like literally nothing youve done screams "i am trying to figure anything out right now" youre just waving big flashy bullshit around like it means something when you havent laid any groundwork for even pretending that youre actually trying to figure out which side of the alignment spectrum im on here.

[CharlotteBebe]

man i seriously hope youre scum right now.
because i'll be really fucking disappointed in you if you actually believe anything you just said.

[CharlotteBebe]

if notty posting in Sir Lord Speak is not alignment indicative then why were you trying to paint him as scum for doing it?

like fucking seriously where did i do this.
please.
tell me.
im waiting.

[CharlotteBebe]

i read the first part of your iso to get a feel for how your scumplay looks.
and when i felt i had a general idea, i stopped, because its halloween and im in a shit mood.

[CharlotteBebe]

if you want specifics, i read how you pushed the titus-slot.
and how you joked around at the start.
so can you please engage me like im an actual person and not like confirmed scum pls?

[CharlotteBebe]

whatever.
glad that you got something out of the nothing that this conversation was.

[CharlotteBebe]

it seems throwaway.
i want anti to say more things about more people more specifically.
until he does im not gonna feel confident about any kind of read there.

also im gonna walk away from this for tonight because im just really not in the mood.

I am sorry if you feel like I am crossing a line here.

im probably just being a baby.
also probably a hypocrite.

[CharlotteBebe]

Mollie: Can you go into why you're scumreading us please?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

I forgot to mention that the least specific thing I will accept are specific posts, so please go into why you're scumreading this slot and give specific posts for it.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

god I hate this game sometimes

Mollie: Can you go into why you're scumreading us please?

-Ank

I LITERALLY said why on the previous page. and I didn't quote a bunch of posts!

this is aimed at you too, 3d!

That's the only post I can see that you have explaining why you're scumreading this slot at all, which is a lot of the reason I'm not liking it. You should be able to figure out why this is disturbing to me.

I'm going to rephrase the question slightly: Do you have any

other

reasons for scumreading this slot that you haven't stated in the thread yet?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Well that was the first time I have read a game that was significantly difficult to back read for a number of reasons. The first being that everyone decides to be goofy sometimes now this might be some kind of new mafia tactic I have not heard of but it was indeed weird to read. As far as people go so far, I have made the following observations:

CharlotteBebe has the cutest avatar ever, I just want to hug it. So adorable. Sorry, it was distracting me, that I have told you it should be better.

Mario has so few posts it is hard to get a read on them.

3Dice posts a lot of things but very rarely says what he feels about it with the exception of the scum painting post. This makes me rather curious about them because they are not allowing their opinions to be put forth so it is difficult to tell alignment because I cannot read anything as either pro town or pro scum

I get a pretty town feeling from Charlotte. They are analyzing posts and look to be taking opinions into account.

This is where I am at now.

^ vig plz

ftr though, I agree with this.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Yes, that's the post I was referring to at the start of 322.

Is that your entire case?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

rip osu! crew

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

UNVOTE: Antihero[/vote]
VOTE: PocketFullofSunshine

[CharlotteBebe]

Look at how cool those tags were. ---^

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

alright.

So lying about meta which hey! you can check for yourself and dodging my question and omgus voting are your examples of "active engagement and understanding of the game???????

do tell how im lying about meta.
because lying is a very strong word. and me saying that i read part of your iso and saw your push on titus in that game and noted how it was similarly devoid of content as your push on me has been this game is pretty farfetched to push as a lie.

or are you saying that i didnt read the ff game? in which case you would have to think as scum, im a moron who would lie about actually reading something. which im not.

i think you pushing this lying angle is fucking nasty.
and im really just leaning that youre trying to emanate your town meta of aggressive headbutting except here it comes across way harder like a caricature of that play, rather than anything actually genuine. theres no engagement on your end. youre just reaching the conclusion and then pushing it without even having tried to probe for motivation behind our play.

what question am i dodging?
how in the world am i just omgusing?

i was initially a little hesitant in wanting to push this because i know i find it hard to read people when theyre pushing me, but taking a step back for a day and seeing mollie continue to push angles that just arent at all based in anything just make me feel like shes full of shit here.
and ank feels similarly so yay!

[CharlotteBebe]

anti can you vote pocket?

can anyone townreading pocket please actually read what shes pushing right now and tell me how it's not coming from scum?

[CharlotteBebe]

like seriously,
pockets last post is the biggest load of hot air.
theres literally nothing behind anything shes saying there.

[CharlotteBebe]

ARTICULATE
YOUR
POINT
WHAT AM I LYING ABOUT

[CharlotteBebe]

im pffting so fucking hard right now.

[CharlotteBebe]

*anti asks a valid question*
*mollie dodges and makes it about drama and replaces*
that makes total sense.

[CharlotteBebe]

btw, I think ank wld try to talk to me more but he isn't is he.

This is incredibly ironic, considering that other than a single throwaway comment earlier in the game, the extent of your interactions with me have been trying to blow me off despite me specifically trying to engage you.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

you what

fuck this shit

I cannot handle another game where anti is a total dick and lynches me on d1

mod: replace me

...what?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

guess who isnt changing their vote.

[CharlotteBebe]

you have to be town to get mislynched.
mollie's replace-out was a scum replace-out.

[CharlotteBebe]

"oobie doobie look how scum gilga is for not realizing im a knight."
>:(

[CharlotteBebe]

I NEVER CLAIMED THAT WHAT THE HECK GUY.
>:C

im waving my arms around.
i dont even understand.

[CharlotteBebe]

i wasnt even scumreading your slot when starting my read.
i was looking for a general idea of how mollie plays as scum earlygame to see if there was a distinct difference between here and there and i didnt see it and even saw parallels in how she made some of her push on titus in that game to how she was treating our slot in this game.
but of course i was just lying.
because that makes so much more sense and isnt just awkward scumflail!

[CharlotteBebe]

anti seems fine to me.

[CharlotteBebe]

Um how can you possibly distinguish if mollie's replace out was a scum one vs. a town one?

it feels more like scum saying fuck it than town.
like she was frustrated that im hard to deal with, but also frustrated that anti looked like he was going to join the wagon, but the manner in which she was engaging both of us there was indirect, misleading and borderline dishonest, such that i feel pretty decently that it was scum-motivated.

[CharlotteBebe]

so you think scumanti takes the neutral stance/diplomatic stance in the middle of mollie and i calling each other scum?

[CharlotteBebe]

do you think scumAnti specifically does that though?
vs just not doing anything.

[CharlotteBebe]

his last two posts feel like genuine-ish to me.
maybe diplomatic is the wrong word.
but he had the opportunity to be opportunistic and he didnt take it at all when it would have been pretty easy to do so or even easier to just kind of avoid it altogether and do soft commentary afterwards.

[CharlotteBebe]

@spiff.
you really cant contextually understand why i didnt come back to whatever it was that you were taking issue with wrt itle?
are you being serious with that point?
because it really should be pretty obvious.
and if you were reading anything happening in this game you would know.
>:/

i co-opt arguments that people make that i like/agree with when im town and scum.
so.
i really dont get how youre finding that scummy at all.

i'll try to read into whatever it is youre trying to push about itle from earlier sometime soon, but if youre going to call me scum for procrastinating on something that isnt resonating with me then dont bother reaching out to me about anything because im just going to follow my own reads if you are gonna jump down my throat for bullshit reasons like "not following through with promising something" because thats fucking annoying.

[CharlotteBebe]

also.
how in heavens name am i chainsaw defending itle?
what?
do you understand what the word chainsaw means?
or are you saying im chainsawing him by saying you look scummier than him in your 1v1? because i still do generally feel like the vibe from those back and forths was town itle and scum spiff. and im also pretty sure im not the only one who expressed that.

this game is frustrating.

[CharlotteBebe]

like seriously, how are you even trying to hardpush someone as scum for using a word that i used to describe the back-and-forth between the two of you?
that doesnt make any sense.
at all.

[CharlotteBebe]

Ank is suzune scum

Moderate-scummy. It's a fragile read, though.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

GIF do you think itlepip is a newish player? That's pretty important to my read on him and I'm less sure about it now than I was earlier in the phase.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

You could use a better vote target, Anti.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

I really feel like I should have gotten a significant townread on you by now, Anti.

The fact that it hasn't happened yet is really disturbing.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

VOTE: Antihero

[CharlotteBebe]

i meant SvS, not TvS/TvT
there's no way that notsci/cb are scum together (it's really hard to have improv arguments) but either/or could be scum

what the fuuuck
why
spiffeh did he give any evidence in the neighborhood

(leaning town)
notscience (neighbors w/ spiffeh, doublevoter, not scum with CB)

i smell bullshit.

also i'd love to hear this case on us in more detail.

vote: saki

lets dance.

[CharlotteBebe]

also spiffeh crying about me not engaging him on itle and then ignoring me calling him out on it is pretty fucking weak.
i feel like i have too many loud scumreads right now.
:/

[CharlotteBebe]

oh no, oh no... i better not let ank down. now that he's voting me i'm very motivated to do something.

how can i help you be motivated?
why dont you look me in the eye anymore anti?

[CharlotteBebe]

I'm also not a fan of BC's PFoS push and I'm pretty sure notty is town.

OMG SPIFF IS SCUM WITH NOTTY BECAUSE HE CALLED ME SCUMMY FOR PUSHING THEM.
thats what you sounded like.
now if youre going to call me out on something, youd better not drop it and ignore me if i call it dumb or im going to start raising my eyebrow at you until it goes off my face.

actually, what.
tracking back on this, youre being kind of full of shit on this.

Seriously I still have no explanation as to why this is a "semantics argument" so itlepip would you be so kind?

this has been explained multiple times.
you were asking itle to go back and find something scummier and dancing around articulating your scumread on him. so yes. you were pushing a pointlessly semantic argument with him.

CB I miss our back and forth

our back and forth ended at you defending yourself and explaining why you thought pocket was town.

CB's chansaw defense of itlepip is looking worse and worse imo especially since he completely dropped his dialogue with me.

you saying this is misleading at best.

fight me.
are you being wrong or scum here?

Fixed quote tags

[CharlotteBebe]

@mod can you fix formatting on that im dumb.

[CharlotteBebe]

so basically everyone who's being loud except spiff?

[CharlotteBebe]

also if you can articulate anything about those other three townreads that arent me i would appreciate it.

[CharlotteBebe]

and the 'let us dance' thing is getting really fucking old and it just looks pathetic by now

so what youre saying is that you want me to get pissed off and be more of an asshole?
let me know.

[CharlotteBebe]

how exactly was i extending rvs.
where did i misrep mollie ever.

("i didn't really read your scumgame but you still really don't look town")

if you exaggerate any point it sounds bad.
this is what youre doing here and its scummy as fuck.

Why would CB ask mollie for meta in the first place

because ive never played with scum mollie? why not?

Why would ank care more about mollie's scumread on his partner rather than his partner's take on mollie's alignment
anti-ankamius interaction ("i'm not townreading you so you must be scum")

what even.

zero harmony within the hydra (won't discuss reads together, don't even look over each other's scumreads)

me disagreeing with ank privately does not mean that we arent talking.
i disagree with some of his reads but im not going to actively stand in front of him on it in thread and instead talk about it with him where it wont be a distraction.

basically everything youre saying is garbage and the first bit of your case is actively ignoring details and making shit up and kind of scummy so please tell me how im wrong or i can feel justified in thinking youre a scumfuck.

[CharlotteBebe]

id also love something more than a shitty omgus vote

feel free to tell me how your points on notty arent full of shit. because theres no way hes at the top of your townlist based on what youve said about him so far.

[CharlotteBebe]

oh i get it, gilg also said lets dance.
sorry to be redundant at you.
id still appreciate you fighting me tho pls.

[CharlotteBebe]

mollie-ankamius interaction ("why do you think im scum" -> "here" -> "ok, anything else?" -> "no" -> "you haven't been listening to me!")

- Why would ank care more about mollie's scumread on his partner rather than his partner's take on mollie's alignment[/quote]

I'll just ignore the fact that the first half of that quote is a blatant misrep for the moment.

Both of these are answered by the same thing so I'll just do it in one take:

Mollie and I have history and I know for a fact that she pays attention to what I put in the thread as town and is aware that if she's town, I'll eventually get to that conclusion and be willing to work with her to solve the game. The fact that she basically went behind my back to scumread the slot based on Gork's actions without trying to engage me,

then

tried to sidestep my resulting engagement on her is eyebrow-raising at best.

It's significantly more likely that she didn't want to risk me catching her, so she decided to try to preemptively give herself a reason not to engage with me.

anti-ankamius interaction ("i'm not townreading you so you must be scum")

Have you ever played with antihero before?

also, in general, zero harmony within the hydra (won't discuss reads together, don't even look over each other's scumreads)
this is just pathetic considering that the reason you hydra is to compile reads
and the whole not-considering-each-others' scum-reads bit just screams "i don't care about who i lynch" and that's really not a good attitude to have in a game, whatever color your role pm might be

lmao

There's no way in hell you believe this logic is sound. The fact that you're even mentioning this is scummy as fuck.

-Ank

Fixed quote tag.

[CharlotteBebe]

@Mod: Can we have a quote tag fix? Sorry.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

i liked the second vote on gifsoon
but you two went from engaging spiffeh on that point to randomly voting itlepip

objectively, i don't see that as anything other than de-railing the focus on your ic vote reaction test (which is by far the only thing that's happened at that point)

except i gave reasons for thinking both 3dice and itle were scummy at the time, thus making it not an rvs vote.
it was in direct response to the reaction test youre referring to.

her replacing out should be enough evidence for that

right. how descriptive.

"you're pressuring me wah wah wah im a baby and i dont like it when ppl pick on me wah wah wah"
"so mollie must be playing to her scummeta because she's picking on me wah wah wah"
you have not actually drawn a parallel between mollie's scumgame and her play here
the number of posts you quoted from that game is zero

and i never implied that the scumread i had at the time was at any point strong based on that readthrough of the meta.
transition was
i) "mollie and notty arent striking me as town and thats kinda sketch"
ii) "mollie's meta from her scumgame from what ive read is similar enough that i cant say that this is her towngame and her push on my slot is similarly void of any kind of substance in a way thats similar to how she opened into that scumgame she linked such that i can see her being scum" and i established that there were other people that i was scumreading much more strongly at this point so you going "OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW COULD GORK BE PUSHING MOLLIE ON THESE WEAK POINTS" is pretty much absolutely fucking moot.
iii) mollie started seeming more like scum the more she started to devolve the argument into abstract and distracting bullshit instead of actually talking to me, which especially seemed scummy because she had literally just got out of a game where she deathtunneled someone on d1 as town and mislynched them for better reasons than what shed given so far in this game.
saying that someone is scummy because they said theyd looked at a game youd linked because they couldnt have read the whole thing is pretty garbage and she refused to acknowledge that and just kept digging deeper when i pointed that out. i think the manner in which she did it felt more like scum frustration than town frustration.

in these slew of posts you have called mollie out for playing to her scum meta by pressuring you

except that isnt what i did. i didnt say "mollie only pressures people as scum!"
again boil it down to something more vanilla and you can make anything sound scummy.
saying you see one thing that looked like something she did in a scumgame and that nothing shes done so far is strikingly town is pretty reasonable.
i keep wanting to say both of you are just scum, but i feel like youre not scum together so whatever.

do i really need to spell this out

sometimes, yes. remember, im an idiot that you can abuse on the internet? ;D

ank not commenting on your scumread on mollie at all
and asking her instead about why she's scumreading you (defending your actions)

except that isnt why ank asked her why she was scumreading our slot.
he thought it was scummy that she chose to have a shouting match with me instead of engaging ank who she has more experience with.

you arent doing this. you seem to be actively ignoring whatever ankamius has to say.

do I need to spell this out for you?
when theres a read that ank has that i dont agree with. i try to talk it out with him in our pt.
just because we're not super in sync or planning our moves out doesnt mean we arent talking.

i dont ever recall saying that my readslist was ordered by strength of read
and please tell me where specifically you think what i've said about notty is 'full of shit' instead of flinging squirrel dung at it, tia

i literally linked quotes regarding it..
you saying "CBvsnotty is TvS" and "notty did something sketchy spiff pls tell me if theres some reason for this in the neighborhood!" are the strongest statements youve said regarding notty that i saw. which does not match a townread. at all.

also, you aren't going to say anything about this?
think you missed it

it reminded me of times when ive replaced out as scum/other people have replaced out as scum in high pressure situations. it just felt that way. and no im not saying it was strategic.

please tell me how a hydra that doesnt compile scumreads is helpful to the town in any way

god you are just so unpleasant.
i dont even really feel like i have reads anymore.
im just annoyed.
-.-

[CharlotteBebe]

like, i get that im a piece of shit.
but i just get this distinct feeling that your main goal here isnt to make us seem scummy or figure us out, its to make us feel bad.

[CharlotteBebe]

I'm on this tomorrow. I firmly disapprove of the Itlepip wagon and think he's still likely town.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

titus can be tentatively town.

[CharlotteBebe]

sigh

Spoiler:

1.

you stopped engaging her the moment she refused to make a pbp analysis of Gork (which is reasonable given her mood at the time, and the fact that gork wasn't doing the same while scumreading mollie)

2.

you dropped the ball on your end first.

3.

and then you went back and are spewing bullshit about how she has failed to talk to you

1 and 2. This is completely false. I naked voted her once she made it clear that she didn't have any kind of case on this slot from before her vote. I've already went into why I think this is more likely to come from scum-mollie than town-mollie. You'll also notice that I was the one who initiated the interaction between us. Until that point, the only time Mollie had spoken to me at all was a throwaway comment about our play in the first few pages.
3. This already doesn't make sense with the above response, but the fact that you're trying to spin my argument as me saying mollie didn't talk to me at all is ridiculous. My point is that I find it very hard to believe that mollie, as town, would push a scumread on this slot entirely based on my partner's actions without even trying to get a read on me specifically, then try to be cagey when I start engaging her instead of talking with me straight or trying to get my take on the situation.

Have you ever played with antihero before?

yes
but you dont have to be a fucking rocket scientist to figure out that he's obviously disinterested and apathetic towards the game
if you scum-read him not providing useful content halfway into d1 imo that's a borderline trust tell and just absolute bullshit because it doesn't work out that way
people aren't fucking machines

I'm looking for one thing about his play that has strongly indicated him town throughout every single game I've ever played with him as town, and it's completely absent here. Lack of activity doesn't affect the strength of the tell at all.

lmao

There's no way in hell you believe this logic is sound. The fact that you're even mentioning this is scummy as fuck.

it's sound
please tell me how a hydra that doesnt compile scumreads is helpful to the town in any way

Then tell me how you know so much about how this hydra works that you're willing to make and push a point on it despite us never stating how this hydra functions up to that point?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

how is that vote in any way town
it just screams scum to me

the vote isnt the main reason im townreading her.
but i can also see town her making it easier than scum her.
scum her would overjustify herself.
town her doesnt give a shit about how she looks coming in.
but you can continue to have shitty reads if you are town if youd like, i can just hopefully get to laugh at you postgame rather than be sad if youre scum.

meta is never a reliable argument in cases going for either argument
and on top of that it was your a) sole reason and b) you also said you didn't even look into it that well

so.
what youre saying is.
someone having an opinion on someone's meta, because you believe meta is wrong, is scummy.
this is a load of ass and you should know it.

you didn't back off at any point during 2, 3, or 4 even though she was giving you signs that told you you were clearly in the wrong (you cannot argue with someone on what their meta is like. that is just dumb)

unless someone is lying about their meta...?

and then you decided on scumreading her AFTER she replaced out (which should've been a second sign to back off)

right because scum has never replaced out of a game ever.
ive never seen frustrated scum say fuck it ever! its not like i established that i got those kind of vibes from it and youre just consistently trying to push like people cant have feelings about things in a game about getting a feeling for people in general!
like, i just feel like you dont actually give a fuck about understanding WHY i felt mollie was scummy. i dont even know if i think her slot is scum anymore because notty is hard to read.
you just keep throwing this bullshit angle of "TOWN WOULD NEVER USE META OR FEEL LIKE SOMETHING IS SCUMMY".
but hey.
keep distracting me with this argument that isnt going to convince anyone that im scummy.
if i was scum i would be fucking loving it, but im not.

vote: spiffeh

this is an actually good vote.

[CharlotteBebe]

Why are you pushing Saki?

i dont really think ive honestly been pushing anyone the last few days.
saki's push on our slot didnt have reasons, i wanted some and i thought his progression on notty could have been coming from scum.

[CharlotteBebe]

i dont REALLY want you to be scum.
just think that the way youre treating me is wonky this game and your pushes seem really surface level.

[CharlotteBebe]

AH thoughts?
not sure i understand.

[CharlotteBebe]

oh dur.
so you want him to give thoughts on anti?
not sure why youre asking me to ask him instead of just asking him directly :s

[CharlotteBebe]

I understand what Titus means; I'll get to it in a little bit.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Oh hey, it's a new page.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

this is an ironic comment about you having a terrible iso.
;D

[CharlotteBebe]

i kind of wish i would stop signing up for games.

[CharlotteBebe]

Ok.

I wish I could give more as to how I read Antihero, but it's basically the same way I read PeregrineV. I just look at what he decides to push and why, and just get a feeling for what alignment he's making the pushes from.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

I can buy Mollie scum provided Ank's description is accurate. This looks a lot like my gripes when I hydra that my hydras get referred to as whichever head is easier to push at the given time and scum ignore the other head entirely. While Mollie buddied me in FF7, she did show evidence of this as well. I'll need to verify whether a) Ank believes this to be true and b) whether it's actually true, but the logical reasoning appears valid.

Look at her hydra's (don't remember name offhand, sorry) ISO in Greater Idea and search for "ank" in it. She was posting a lot about how my posting was freaking her out and iirc she stated that she couldn't read the other half of my slot very well. I was scum and she was town.

We were teammates in team mafia 2015 and made really good use of our team PT (over 500 posts between us two alone).

We were collaborating a lot towards the end of Survivor mafia. She was town and I was survivor playing as town.

We were both town in You Can Be Anyone II, and I eventually figured out she was town when most of the game was sure she was an SK and started WKing her until she was replaced.

---

This isn't the extent of our game history on the site, but it's enough to show my point. Other than YCBA2, I'm pretty certain all these games are from within the past year.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Ok.

I wish I could give more as to how I read Antihero, but it's basically the same way I read PeregrineV. I just look at what he decides to push and why, and just get a feeling for what alignment he's making the pushes from.

-Ank

I can't exactly analyze a gut feeling and your post made it look a lot stronger.

Thoughts on MM?

Do you agree with R's meta read?

The problem is that Anti hasn't pushed pretty much anything until last page. I've seen Anti do fluffy posts in the past, but not without getting

something

else there before too long afterwards. I haven't personally seen a scumgame of his yet, but I've seen his towngame enough to be really suspicious of that pattern not holding up in this game.

MM's lynchbait for right now. If he continues being this useless later in the game, then purge him.

I haven't played with Saki in years, and even then he's been mostly unremarkable.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

ftr I didn't give links to the games because trying to do shit on other tabs is how I altslipped

last

time.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Oh I actually like older games for meta tbh if I engage in it. It removes a good chunk of learning and gets more at personality.

This doesn't exactly work when the point is regarding interactions with specific people.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Ok.

I wish I could give more as to how I read Antihero, but it's basically the same way I read PeregrineV. I just look at what he decides to push and why, and just get a feeling for what alignment he's making the pushes from.

-Ank

I can't exactly analyze a gut feeling and your post made it look a lot stronger.

Thoughts on MM?

Do you agree with R's meta read?

The problem is that Anti hasn't pushed pretty much anything until last page. I've seen Anti do fluffy posts in the past, but not without getting

something

else there before too long afterwards. I haven't personally seen a scumgame of his yet, but I've seen his towngame enough to be really suspicious of that pattern not holding up in this game.

MM's lynchbait for right now. If he continues being this useless later in the game, then purge him.

I haven't played with Saki in years, and even then he's been mostly unremarkable.

-Ank

Jungle Republic? Or does multiball not count?

I don't remember this game. Link?

[CharlotteBebe]

Oh I actually like older games for meta tbh if I engage in it. It removes a good chunk of learning and gets more at personality.

This doesn't exactly work when the point is regarding interactions with specific people.

-Ank

Why?

When you're looking at how people would treat other people in games, fresher games are stronger because the patterns you're referencing in your mind have had less time to erode.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=63020

I didn't play in that game.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Ok. Noted, now we need to get off theory while I read up.

Why is MM lynchbait instead of scum?

Because all I remember him doing before that vague reads list was complaining about not being able to get reads.

The list itself didn't catch my eye and I don't think the complaining is alignment indicative by itself. I'd be okay with lynching him in the worst case scenario, but it would be for policy and not because I think he'll flip scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=63020

I didn't play in that game.

-Ank

True but I want to see if you think your pattern holds still in a game I know and was in recently.

If you want to add to it, go ahead, but I'm not going to dive and do it myself since I have a very negative view of diving into games you're not in to try to find the more subtle parts of how people play because it's much more valuable to use information that you specifically try to get yourself.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

shrug.

I think I have an idea of how to read her from Persona, but I'd have to see it a few more times before I know whether it's reliable in any way or not.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

yup.
isnt it exciting!?
dont you want to get lynched before you can become disengaged and disinterested in the game?

i did warn varsoon.

[CharlotteBebe]

You can stop being smug. It actually doesn't look good on you.

Just saying, but if we lynch Saki. I will promise fresh cookies (of your choice) to everyone on the wagon.

~R

im not being smug.
im just being amused.

can you articulate your saki read more clearly?
why exactly is he scum?

[CharlotteBebe]

this game.
:c

[CharlotteBebe]

i cant really feel anything about the idea of lynching itle or mario right now.
part of me feels like rogue is still scum. :/
another part of me hasnt even absorbed anything definitive in this game though so that kind of sucks.
someone be really town pls.

[CharlotteBebe]

As I told notty I think I'm having an issue because I'm trying to keep myself in a limit of 1-2 games at a time and I'm only in this one (since the blitz ended) and I think I'm going batshit crazy because I want to play and people aren't.

ftr ive been dreading to get back to this game since you and titus replaced in and the signal:noise ratio went plummetting

p much

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

someone quote an amazing case or make one at me.

I agree on itlepip's last post giving me town vibes

trust me I tried really hard to justify it as anything but in my head but to no avail

Suzune would be a decent lynch iirc, I need to read her ISO

why are you still sitting on a wagon for someone that youre getting townvibes from?
youre being so careful about switching wagons >:(

[CharlotteBebe]

stop being reasonable!

vote: suzune

[CharlotteBebe]

my gut still says rogue is scum

[CharlotteBebe]

i dont know!
ive been putting off reading things on him.
i was literally going to go read your case on him again and then got pfffty at you saying you were getting townvibes from him.

[CharlotteBebe]

nope.

[CharlotteBebe]

i probably did at one point but this game is going through me like a ghost.

[CharlotteBebe]

Also I'm positive that one of Saki/CB are scum because I'm so sick of the term signal:noise raztio that the next person that uses it i'll make it my mission to lynch them.

this makes sense.

[CharlotteBebe]

Let's break down firebringer's though process:

you look scummier than FB right now.
just fyi.
;D

[CharlotteBebe]

rogue scares me.
i feel really dumb because i keep thinking about voting someone and getting uncomfortable.
saki is abrasive which makes him hard to read.
*fetal position*

[CharlotteBebe]

zzzzzzzzzz.
3dice.
theres a day left in the cycle.
why are you even trying to pitch speed of wagon as meaning anything?

[CharlotteBebe]

then why are you not asking titus about them joining it specifically rather than framing it as a speed of wagon issue?

[CharlotteBebe]

Good to know Saki's still scum, at least.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

I'm up for it. I kinda sorta approve of a Suzune wagon but Saki is far superior.

VOTE: Saki

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

hey, another person that wont explain his reads
you hiding behind your hydra partner like this is the exact reason people ban hydras from games

[CharlotteBebe]

hey, another person that wont explain his reads
you hiding behind your hydra partner like this is the exact reason people ban hydras from games

yeah
kindly explain to me where gork posting 15-20 messages in a row without running anything by you is not you hiding behind gork

You'll have to go into why I would want to do this in the first place considering from what I can tell, the Gork-half of the hydra has gotten significantly more fire than my half.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

like this is the kind of shit thats so frustrating

people think "this person isnt doing what a good townie is doing" makes that person scum

hell no
hell fucking no

ive been yelling at people over why they shouldnt think like that but why does it matter because nobody is listening

Can't be worse than you assuming you know how this hydra works and trying to pin it as scum-intent when you have no actual idea at all!

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

That's pretty cool considering that the vote I just made on you was the very first one that we didn't expressly agree on reads-wise.

I'm not counting my Antihero vote a while back because that wasn't a very serious vote anyway.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

I'm scumreading you because your entire case is shit.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

that is an underwhelming reaction.

[CharlotteBebe]

given the softclaims so far, im not really sure i buy that.
you should claim target last night.

[CharlotteBebe]

can we please not quickhammer?

[CharlotteBebe]

like on a scale of 1-nothanks.
im at a full nothanks here.
k?

[CharlotteBebe]

k.
still no need to quickhammer.
i have shit i want to talk about with ank and theres time for more reactions for this wagon/time for more information to be introduced.

[CharlotteBebe]

titus please unvote.
lol.
if suzune doesnt get lynched and ends up being scum then eat me alive.
but theres literally no reason for this day to end right now.

[CharlotteBebe]

tyty.

i wont dillydally.
theres just something important i need to talk over with him and everyone should also check in and give thoughts in general.

[CharlotteBebe]

im gonna say 3dice is probable scum on another note.

[CharlotteBebe]

not yet.
ank and i are still talking about something crucial and important.
something about the votes from before.

[CharlotteBebe]

i agree with spiff! ;D

[CharlotteBebe]

i literally need a few more hours to check something.
just calm yoselves.

[CharlotteBebe]

Activate: PURIFYING

vote: Suzune

VOTE: Suzune

VOTE: Suzune

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

OooOoOOoOooOooooo.

[CharlotteBebe]

*spooky spooky spooky*

[CharlotteBebe]

Is something going to happen?

Yeah, all three votes are going to be vig shots on you.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Is that your sense of humor speaking Suzune?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Was that a fun diversion?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

nah.

vote: suzune

[CharlotteBebe]

why would you distrust such a spooky play?

[CharlotteBebe]

it silences everyone we quoted.
;D

[CharlotteBebe]

It should be very obvious who we are at least to anyone who knows the flavor.

...I'm not the only one who does, right?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

No, Suzune. No character in the game strikes me as the type that would just be put as a doctor and called a day.

@Itlepip: Does it look like it did something?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

A little research goes a long way itlepip, I be the only doctor in the game with an infirmary. However, that is neither here nor there as it is irrelevant to the game.

This would mean that your role was so lazily designed compared to everything else I know about the setup that I struggle to see this being accurate.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

If you're trying to hint that you're not just a doctor, then you really should out it.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

so romantic.

[CharlotteBebe]

vote: 3dice

firebringer is confirmed town now if im not mistaken?
titus is still town.
max is probably still town.
mario guiltied suzune so probably town on that merit alone.
that leaves anti, spiff and 3dice.

[CharlotteBebe]

Mario: Who did you block last night?
Maxous: I'm assuming you either didn't make an action last night or it's not something that is as important to out as your night one action, correct?

UNVOTE: 3dicerolling

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

didnt ranger target them?
and yay being on the same page.

[CharlotteBebe]

i thought 3dice seemed way more like a suzune scummate than anti based on end of day.

[CharlotteBebe]

I'm not interested in ending the day instantly, Titus. There's shit to sort out.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

I'm okay with massclaiming. Not speaking for Gork, though.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Regardless of us massclaiming or not, any vig in this game should claim today.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

zzzz.
rogue, sorry. names are blending together from different games.
i remember firebringer and rogue talking about targets and stuff and it seemed like rogue had targetted them n1 and given that they were alive d2 i would assume that would mean firebringer is town.

[CharlotteBebe]

Okay, so it was gork who voted me, but Ank who unvoted?

All but like 2-3 posts I've made this entire game have been signed (and should frankly be obviously from me anyway since our writing styles are so different).

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

im only really interested in one claim right now.
and thats primarily from a gamesolving perspective.

[CharlotteBebe]

Why are you so attached to massclaim?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

i dont know where i got it in my head that rogue targetted fb slot q.q
im so confused.

p-edit: i dont think im being cryptic.
i think it should be obvious what im talking about.
even 3dice gets it.

[CharlotteBebe]

CB why are you being so cryptic?

What part of anything we said can't be reached by anyone else by thinking about the gamestate?

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

ank helped me remember that im dumb.
titus and fb had that conversation on d2 that i thought was rogue and fb.

i guess spiff is town from neighbor claim?
i dont think he had enough time to bullshit a bunch of content and it would be risky as fuck for scum to do that.

p-edit: theres a certain role in the game that cant be mafia.
i do wonder what it could be.

[CharlotteBebe]

I was confused at you saying FB was conftown and I still don't know who you want a role claim from because reading comprehension is too much effort.

Don't get snippy Ank

Fine, I'll lay it out.

We have confirmed two killing roles of some kind in the game. Rogue can go either way but is likely because that slot targeted scum rather than being targeted for a kill.

There we no kills night one.

If we can figure out who killed who at some point throughout the game, we'll be one step closer to solving the game. This also happens to be the only info that we 100% know is relevant in this situation.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

3Dice posts a lot of things but very rarely says what he feels about it with the exception of the scum painting post. This makes me rather curious about them because they are not allowing their opinions to be put forth so it is difficult to tell alignment because I cannot read anything as either pro town or pro scum

I apologize, I am kind of scurrying I had a tough weekend and am now trying to pull everything together. So I want to make an effort, but I am having trouble finding my footing in this game. My gut is to vote for 3Dice. Even though there is not a lot of information on them right now. If find them odd all in all. Their posting style and the fact that they are always confused and going to read the topic strikes me as the oddest part.

In all the games I've ever replaced in, I've had a relatively strong grasp on who I wanted to vote. That's what's kind of throwing me off about suzune.

Yes typically I am the same way. I just cannot seem to find my footing in this game.

hey.
hey guys.
hey ank.
why are we voting anti over this.

p-edit: max. isnt spiff town via claim? weak neighbor would have died n1 if they targeted him.

[CharlotteBebe]

Also FTR, I'm against massclaiming now, although it's because of 3dicerolling rather than Spiffeh (despite scumreading the latter as well).

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Sadly, I saw Suzune do both of those things in the last game we played. I was scum and specifically attacked her for the same type of point in the first quote, and she did the latter to me throughout the game before copping me.

The third is interesting, though.

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

Deny

-Ank

[CharlotteBebe]

bussing is more common than not bussing.

[CharlotteBebe]

Ok, who did you target then?

[CharlotteBebe]

-Ank

sorry

[CharlotteBebe]

Ok, so 3dice is conftown if there aren't any other vig claims. I can also confirm that it checks out because we saw 3dicerolling going nowhere last night.

-Ank