You could be Anyone IV - GAME OVER

[I Am Innocent]

From this page alone EP is town.
Way more willing to engage than in a previous game I've played with him where he was scum.

Can you link that game cause right now I'm leaning scum there?

[I Am Innocent]

EP what are your some of your thoughts outside of EE?

~Spiffy

I can definitely follow and agree with what most of what Gwen is saying outside of the Titus read and the Garmr trying to interact with Gwen being town points.
So for that, Gwen is town.

Don't understand the townreads on AJ.

209 don't understand if this is legitimate misunderstanding or just a deflection. I'm leaning towards the latter.
That being said I don't think 172 seems rehearsed and although I am slightly uncomfortable with how spifflop says it is (172 seemed like a post that someone who wanted to push a mislynch would say is rehearsed), the lop part is acting pretty towny.

I do not like 203. VOTE: itlepip
Disregarding whether or not 172 is genuine

Interesting that you point out the buddying towards AJ, yet your vote doesn't go towards any player buddying her. And you vote itle for post 203? That's weaker than weak sauce.

Your play feels very careful and contrived. Awaiting spiffehs meta on you, but in the meantime

vote: Extrapolated Eagle

[I Am Innocent]

EP what are your some of your thoughts outside of EE?

~Spiffy

I can definitely follow and agree with what most of what Gwen is saying outside of the Titus read and the Garmr trying to interact with Gwen being town points.
So for that, Gwen is town.

Don't understand the townreads on AJ.

209 don't understand if this is legitimate misunderstanding or just a deflection. I'm leaning towards the latter.
That being said I don't think 172 seems rehearsed and although I am slightly uncomfortable with how spifflop says it is (172 seemed like a post that someone who wanted to push a mislynch would say is rehearsed), the lop part is acting pretty towny.

I do not like 203. VOTE: itlepip
Disregarding whether or not 172 is genuine

Interesting that you point out the buddying towards AJ, yet your vote doesn't go towards any player buddying her. And you vote itle for post 203? That's weaker than weak sauce.

Your play feels very careful and contrived. Awaiting spiffehs meta on you, but in the meantime

vote: Extrapolated Eagle

Jason, EP was suppose to be Errantparabola, not Extrapolated Eagle. Just to be sure

unvote
vote: Errantparabola

(I'll make sure to use full names next time, sorry)

[I Am Innocent]

Can you link that game cause right now I'm leaning scum there?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63747

Look at his early play and it's obvious it's hard for him to find a footing (which I correctly called out but foolishly dropped the issue after he wrote a wall).
He seems a lot more comfortable and willing to engage here.

~Spiffy

Thanks I will check this out.

[I Am Innocent]

@AneN

Nah Shiro is town and I have no idea who clotilde is

You could be Clotilde.
So, do you want to be Clotilde?

I am already

Captain James Tiberius Kirk though

I have a very bad feeling about this.
VOTE: Shiro

Non game related, please keep up the character schtick, I have laughed at nearly all your posts so far

[I Am Innocent]

mod V/LA until Monday

Sorry unexpected real life issues all.

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry all real life stuff...

Since I'm probably around 60 pages behind, to anyone who wants to comment on the main wagons/cases, I'd really appreciate it.

[I Am Innocent]

I think Anen has the alignment-changing ability the mod said was possible for this game. That or some kind of neighborizer/masonizer are the only reasons I can think he'd be asking about Clotilde. That alone makes him unlikely to be group scum at least. I still think he's snarkier here than he usually is; even the game he linked doesn't really have snark.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Varsoon

I don't like how he said him posting would be a bad idea. Varsoon, I want some of your thoughts on the game.

Shiro I looked at ur case and alch's ISO and I didn't see any D1 scum tells. The only thing that has me scratching my head is this alignment changing ability. Where did the mod mention that alch?

On to look at spiffehs case on Klingon now and klingon's ISO next.

[I Am Innocent]

I should start being more active now, my apologies all. Real life issues + holiday really left no time for either of my games.

I still have a ton of D1 to read, and a little of D2, but this is where I am at.

1) an ISO of SG shows PS is town/was her N1 target. Not a fan of EE and RM posts toward PS today.

2) can't find where in that ISO where her crumb was of a N2 target, as she obv hid behind grapes or scum. Do people think it is alch, hence the quick wagon?

3) I stand by my earlier ISO of alch, still don't see the scum motivation there, and that does seem like the counterwagon to Klingons end of D1, no?

I will prob ISO EP next as i had some early game scum vibes from him.

[I Am Innocent]

@SG, maybe we can reread alchemist tonight? Neither of my heads feels good about him, but at the same time too many obvious scum to work with Shiro.

Alch is not a priority for tonight.

---

Lol.

EE is mod confirmed scum too nice.

Nobody is MOD confirmed until they flip. If you're town you need to stop putting shit like this in the thread. The only MOD CONFIRMED are Klingon, Spifflop and itlepip. That's it. You put shit like this out there, deep come along and think there's a mod confirmed guilty on the lead wagon, and then jump on blindly...

Hmm...

You know what

VOTE: Passionate Storm

This post sucks. Essentially it can be used as a justification to keep everyone open.

So,this one is in favor of conf bias. Check.

It's nice to know you didn't deny it.

---

(8)

@Anen: Why do you think scum would shoot a 1-shot that had already used their shot?
What do you think of Stranger questioning the mod during the night about your role and whether you confirmed me?

Wait-oh, what makes you think that I'm 1–Shot and I used my Shot last Night? Curiosity kills the cat, I know, but Kitty kills the Spider first. ^_^
As for the other question, there are plenty of possibilities. And I think you wouldn't ask questions like that if Dapper weren't wagoned now.

You presented the Clotide gambit as only working once. A 1-shot. Why do you think scum would try to kill you after using that one shot? As for Dapper, think about the motivation there. There was no reason for them to ask the mod about your role if they were town. First, what town doesn't like conf. town? You can see this thought process in even their most recent posts where they are trying to shoot down the whole concept. That's not a town thought process. Second, if they were town why would they think the mod would even answer them? Town would know that wouldn't happen. They'd take their skepticism into the next day. Asking the mod about a role that powerful points to butthurt scum.

Tso what about the beginning of this post?

[I Am Innocent]

I should start being more active now, my apologies all. Real life issues + holiday really left no time for either of my games.

I still have a ton of D1 to read, and a little of D2, but this is where I am at.

1) an ISO of SG shows PS is town/was her N1 target. Not a fan of EE and RM posts toward PS today.

2) can't find where in that ISO where her crumb was of a N2 target, as she obv hid behind grapes or scum. Do people think it is alch, hence the quick wagon?

3) I stand by my earlier ISO of alch, still don't see the scum motivation there, and that does seem like the counterwagon to Klingons end of D1, no?

I will prob ISO EP next as i had some early game scum vibes from him.

Look at me and SG talking about rereads. I almost never reread. There's your crumb.

Can you give me the one post that says alch will be her target or who was in the list of targets? Her crumb of you D1 was pretty obvious. Maybe I'm losing something since I've been working mostly in Iso's and not full conversations.

It does make me feel better that you are convinced alch was the target.

[I Am Innocent]

Will post tonight after work and kids go down.

[I Am Innocent]

It was only a one-shot deal. The vision didn't hit me until later that night. I knew then about the Black Thorn and who was behind the Apocalypse, but I couldn't see their faces. I was aware of where the power was, but didn't know who. Then Fred died and I didn't want that to be another awful thing in an awful world so I decided to use it... to make her death matter. And it worked. I'm in. I've seen the faces of evil in the Black Thorn. I know who the real powers in the Apocalypse are.

Spider Gwen was Angel, Town Hider killed Night 2

Dear Dad,

This is the difficult bit. If I got this right, you’re reading this a week after we left in the TARDIS. The thing is, we’re not coming back. We’re alive and well; stuck in New York, 50 years before I was born. I can’t come home again, I won’t ever see you and that breaks my heart. I’m so sorry, Dad. I thought about this for years and I realised, this is what I could do, I could write you a letter, tell you everything about how we lived, about how, despite it all, we were happy. But before I do, I need you to know, you are the best dad any son could have had. And for all the times I drove you mad and you drove me mad, all the times I snapped at you… I’m sorry. I miss everything about you, especially our awkward hugs. I bought a trough, we have a small yard, I garden. But one more important bit of business, the man who delivered the letter, Anthony.. be nice to him ‘cause his your grandson. We finally adopted in 1946: Anthony Brian Williams. He can tell you everything, he’ll have the family albums and I realise having a grandson who’s older than you is so far beyond weird but I'm sorry. I love you, Dad. I miss you.

Grapes was Rory Williams Vanilla Town, shot in the head Night 2

Day 3 Deadline

(expired on 2016-01-15 09:59:51)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Jason: three questions for you. I'll understand if you can't answer them, but I don't think that any of them are questions you can't answer.

1. Hypothetically, if there existed a scumteam and a Serial Killer, and both have unique kill flavours, and they both successfully shot the same person during the same night, would one kill flavour supersede the other, or would they both be displayed (eg. player x was killed and left in a pool of blood), or would there be another scenario?

2. Hypothetically, if a Hider hid behind a player who was scum, what would the Hider's kill flavour be?

3. Hypothetically, if a Hider hid behind a town player who was killed, would the Hider's kill flavour be identical to the killed town player?

Thank you.

If there is really no other option, the traditional recommendation of Natural Action Resolution is to pick whichever of the conflicting actions comes first on the following list, and resolve it first:
1. Copy
2. Hide
3. Bus
4. Block
5. Redirect
6. Protect
7. Miscellaneous
8. Kill
9. Recruit
10. Inspect

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... Resolution

Based on these items, it appears SG was killed outright, not via hiding. I think speculating on the target, if there even was one, is pointless at this time.

I think it is ironic though that I was one of the few who took the time to look for crumbs D3, and have been called out for it D4 by saying I was hesitant about Alch being the target, yet how many are taking the time to look at it now. Where were you guys D3....my suspicion, there are a number of scum that hopped on the Alch wagon D3.

At this time, I think that (the D3 wagon on alch), as well as a D1 vote analysis is the place to go. I'm not going to lie, I have not read most of D1 or all of D2 even yet. My goal is to start tracking votes from D1, to see who was against the Kling wagon and who was pushing alternate wagons, esp ones that have since flipped town.

I ask for some more time, as many of you know, I have a job, 4 young kids, and I usually don't play more than 1 game at a time. I have bit off more than I can chew with the prein to this game after having started another, but I have enough respect for Jason to not ask for a replacement in a 125 page game. So please be patient, and note that I can be of value late game. Most of you know my play.

[I Am Innocent]

crap that second jason post is missing his responses:

Jason: three questions for you. I'll understand if you can't answer them, but I don't think that any of them are questions you can't answer.

1. Hypothetically, if there existed a scumteam and a Serial Killer, and both have unique kill flavours, and they both successfully shot the same person during the same night, would one kill flavour supersede the other, or would they both be displayed (eg. player x was killed and left in a pool of blood), or would there be another scenario?

2. Hypothetically, if a Hider hid behind a player who was scum, what would the Hider's kill flavour be?

3. Hypothetically, if a Hider hid behind a town player who was killed, would the Hider's kill flavour be identical to the killed town player?

Thank you.

1. Kill Flavor would be 'Killed my multiple causes' as per Doctor Who - The last Great time war

2. Kill flavor would simply be 'died' as per YCBA 3

3. Yes. I believe so, that is how I would have flipped it.

Sorry for the delay in responding. Was trying to find the source links.

Last note - I will NEVER mod kill anyone for inactivity unless it is advertised as BAM ruleset I will always replace, unless it holds the game up in a night phase in an extreme manner (never happened) And as per rule 25, please don't ask for modkills.

[I Am Innocent]

My other game just ended, so expect my full attention now I'll get moving on that day 1 vote analysis now.

[I Am Innocent]

Guys what are the chances that Gwen hid behind scum Titus who was protected by scum doctor thus keeping Gwen alive?

I recently had this thought in my head and I cant get it off so please tell me how stupid and unlikely it is.

Hiding behind scum would have killed SG regardless whether that scum lived or not.

[I Am Innocent]

Dear idiots: look at the goddamn flavour for the nightkills. There are three (3) different kinds. Blood is obviously the SK, Mafia kill flavour is the same as it's ever been in YCBA games to date, so grapes was clearly a vig shot.

Putting this together with RM makes the puzzle look like this:

Anen was possibly a blocked vig shot N1
Tso was a blocked SK shot nights 2 and 3
Not sure what happened to the vig shot N3. Xshot? If so, vig should claim so we can put this puzzle together.

Need to see how long Tso has been pushing EE, wondering if that is our SK? Or who else has Tso been pushing since day 2?

[I Am Innocent]

I'm going to bed. If I wake up and see an inactive person has posted a prod dodge without talking about the

one

topic I've asked them to (Hider debate), I'll be furious.

I see where you are going with this, scum shot SG who hid behind scum, hence the kill flavor.

But I still don't see an obv crumb D2 like there was D1. So 1 of 2 things happened.

1) she went off on her own and did her own thing which left no trail
2) she decided not to use it for a lack of crumb

If you want to talk more about #1 I'm game, but I don't see anything, so I personally think it's all just a guessing game at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah not obvious from tso's end of day list who the SK may be. Probably worth revisiting later in the game if the SK is still alive.

Going to look at EE's day 1 voting history next.

[I Am Innocent]

Crap, where did my page 1 quoted posts of EE go?

EE, it bothers me for such an intelligent player all your results are filtered through klingontown.

You are missing how scum normally behave here.

Maybe. She might be scum. I'm thinking about it.

I do have a question for you, though:
If you believed someone was scum to the fullest, would you do anything to get them lynched, even lie, as town?

Not on d1. Lying as town is only appropriate when you can correct the lie or the lie only hurts scum. For instance, I am fond of bulletproof and macho lies if I do not want a doctor heal and need to Wifom scums.

Ok.



Hmmm.

Alright.
VOTE: Klingon

I reserve the right to call you scummy as much as I want d2 if she flips town. No "I was town so I couldn't have known her alignment" or any of that. Yeah, I know exactly what I'm doing. If I'm alive d2 you're not going to strongarm or WIFOM me. I will not give you the benefit of the doubt. You will have to convince me that you're town or I swear I will push your lynch until I run out of breath or you get lynched. And keeping me alive tomorrow will not make me doubt that you're scum.

My Klingon vote suddenly feels dirty.

Is that all it took?

My Klingon vote suddenly feels dirty.

So much for "eagle is townbeard, right?" I mean, what even are your other reads? You don't even know. You just know that I'm coming after you tomorrow. Because you know her alignment, don't you?

You're scummy af right now TSO for backing off after that.

So, so certain that someone is scum that anyone who disagrees with you is scum or isn't reading properly. You know what she's going to flip, don't you? Is that why all of a sudden your scum read of me is blatant? Butter try to undercut this early, huh?

Make up your mind, TSO. Is she scum? Figure it out right now. Because my threat to passionate storm applies to you as well.

Do you REALLY want this lynch?

I really don't like how absent ep has been since we'be neared a lynch. And he moves WAY up on my suspect list if kling flips scum. Him and AJ both.

Hey let's wagon Aunt Jemina, Errant. What do you think?

Hey let's wagon Aunt Jemina, Errant. What do you think?

Where is AJ, btw?

I don't know. Do you want to lynch her?

Klingon

(Your name is in bold because I'm frustrated with you.)

No. That was only kind of what I was talking about. I think your reads are inexcusable. As is your lack of push. I am certainly frustrated with you. Perhaps you are more experienced than you appear.

Ep we need to talk. About several things. First of all, where are you going next in this game? What's your next move? I don't like the passive reaction stuff you've had going on for a bit. Is that just because you're catching up, or...? Because I think that is a bit scummy. As was your interest in the Elyse wagon around the time Klings wagon began picking up. I also don't like how you failed to engage me when I asked how you felt about wagonning someone I thought might be scum with you. However, I have seen some good sense come out of you. So talk to me. What's up?

Dapper. We need to talk. I like you and where you're at. I'm starting to think Passionate Storm is probably town, just frustrated and certain a certain someone should be lynched. Based on TAOs reaction (not the overreaction post, that was really rather scummy) and his reads, I think he's probably town as well. Elyse is probably town, too, but I can't truly read her right now. I think her posts are quite anti-town, but perhaps she means well. So that first team proposal was a bit of a wash, but they're still rather bullish and I don't feel comfortable trying to work with any of them right now. I actually would probably feel better if we just lynched the whole lot, (though I won't) their arrogance and overconfidence is distracting, intrusive, and rather anti-town. I guess we all have things to learn.

I shared what I thought of errant above. AJ is also a bit passive, doesn't push reads, simply states facts. I would love to have some pressure there. Firebringer was chosen for this team over shirk because shirk was aggressive but restrained. I would expect the aggressive scum in the passive party to be a bit more all out. Itlepip dits this because he's aggressive but a bit restrained and he's been pushing wagons. But I think I actually have a town read on him. Maybe the second strongest after you. Klingon would maybe fit this part because she does cause chaos, and I'd this was a thing, I think that the AJ vote on her was probably planned in daytalk. But I'm not too sure about this. Spifflop actually does fit this build, I think. He has built his game around being somewhat reckless and his reads just seem to match whatever he wants at the moment. Aneninen might actually be a part of this team. He never did respond to my question about participating in a lynch, and the chlotilde thing could be a ruse/excuse to get him by as a loon. Other Head needs to catch up and share thoughts. All of the people I've mentioned here with the exception of those in the aggressive/defensive persons section are in a decent place to start acting town if necessary.
What do you think of this? My reads on the first two teams

Also, Dapper, let's talk about Klingon. I thought she could be town most of the game, but her reads are atrocious. The reasoning behind them is sad. So. If I'm going to build a team around Klingon scum, who do I choose? Aneninen, with his unvote? Varsoon with his crumbing that leads Hansel and Gretel in circles? The problem is I can't really find too many scum buddies. I guess maybe spider Gwen. I would like to hear her thoughts, though. She's probably town. I feel weird about her, and I can't put my finger on why, but I think she's probably town.

Anyways. What do you think about these as well?

Spider Gwen we should chat when you get a chance about where you're at and stuff.

-Can you quote, or point out, or make some sort of attempt at showing where I have been "jumping all over the place?" I think this is the fourth time I've asked, and you continue to disappoint.
-The way you're grouping scumteams is idiotic. This isn't me being arrogant or something, it's the truth. But we can simply wait until postgame for it to be shown up, so I digress.
-Do you actually believe Klingon is scum? Or is it some ill-founded attempt to further your scumread on PS? If it's the latter, please get the fuck off the wagon now.
-Why are you voting Klingon? I want specific reasons.
-Do you think that the way you continually attempt to pressure flip conversations is indicative of your alignment?
-In post #1514, you say that I'm unvoting Klingon because of her alignment, but it's not clear why. Can you expand on this scenario in detail? It seems like the best reason to scumread me you have, yet you're curiously reticent about it.
-If my arrogance is blinding me, then why are you currently sheeping my reads and voting Klingon?
-Is it difficult to reconcile your scumread of PS with your apparent scumread on Klingon?

I am not answering the first question unless someone else asks me because I think everyone else sees what I'm talking about.


Do you legitimately not see that I'm not voting Klingon?

If I was calling a scumteam right now, it'd probably be something like Klingon/EE/Alch/lurker that I haven't decided yet/lurker #2. I don't find many active players to be scummy right now.

Lurker pool is something like {PV, MOHIS, IAI, inte, TWIE}.

No, that's not it. Not even close, IMO. Too much lurk, and Klingon isn't scum

Now that that's over with:

VOTE: Elyse

I liked this wagon. I was comfortable here. I'll move again maybe with dapper, but for now I like this.

Unvote
Vote Klingon

Eagle's probably going to get butt hurt and go all crazy paranoid on me. I feel bad, but I don't really care.

(Almost alt slipped...)

Like I've said before. I'm ok with the Klingon wagon. Just not a fan of it myself.

No one is reading this for content but confbiasing.

Can we lynch Klingon already?

~Titus

We lynch Klingon- she flips town. What happens then, Titus?

We lynch Klingon- she flips scum. What happens now? How do you follow up? Where? Just interrogate those who haven't really recognized her?

Mid is mod. Autocorrect. If Klingon is town, we fuck the mod for lying.

You're not certain you agree with me and I am not certain you're town.

I haven't given an articulable decent thought on the last several pages. If I can get away with that, no one is reading to hunt anymore. Everyone is posting to persuade and not listening.

Time to get a flip in here.

Ah.

You shouldn't be? Except you seen to be certain Klingon is scum.

To be fair, I think a lot of people just stopped reading after dapper s post about spiff scum, and some before that. But you're right. I haven't gained much out of the last thirty or so pages and that frustrates me. Other than aneninen off vote when I on voted Klingon, of course. That made me more suspicious of him and varsoon. And Taos overreaction to me throwing names at the wall. That made me more suspicious of him, and his aggression now seems to be an attempt to cover his tracks.


BTW what do people think of aneninen and Elyse and tso and ep and Klingon scum? Kinda works or doesn't work?

Oh and Elyse has looked scummier over the past couple pages. I will say that I also have gained a very very strong desire to punch some people in the face and in at least some cases I think this feeling is mutual

Anyways, not Klingon today. Elyse?

[I Am Innocent]

Went thru it quicker the second time but I think I got most of EEs page 1 posts that pinged me.

Eagle-

1) For clarification, are you actively claiming to be purposely withholding a vote in order to gauge reactions from people that notice it?
2) In response to your question, I post what I think I can bring to the table. If something has already been said, no need to say it again.

1. Yes.
2. Perhaps. But theory is not necessarily a wonderful thing to bring to the table, especially in RVS. At least, not in my opinion, but that is theory, so I'll stop there.

But now it's time for this:

VOTE: errantparabola

I didn't like the tunneling. But I especially didn't like the way he backed off at the end.

@Passionate Storm: who is green? Who is grey?

@Klingon, if everyone (or most everyone) backed off right now, how soon could you read the thread and share reads?

How soon can this become a full list?

By the end of Day 1. Maybe sooner. I'm not in so many games right now, so, over the next 7-10 R/L days probably. Two or three at a time.

Ok, thank you.
@Passionate Storm & Elyse

Sorry for responding the way I did. I hate it when my questions get answered or responded to by someone other than the intended target.

I think Passionate Storm is likely town, now, though I'm skeptical of the play there and I'm curious as to why she joins wagons with her scum reads on them.

Yes, this means I think it's likely that spidergwen is scum. Reads coming shortly, hopefully.

Alright, my reads will be better/more accurate, I think, after my questions get answered, but here's where I'm at:
Inte might be scum. No one brings up his absence or responds to his two posts in rvs, which look like they're trying to look town without admitting that he's not all that invested.
Elyse is probably scum- doesn't push, likes to try to keep things smoothed over and stay nice, nobody is interested in her, and she didn't really retaliate past voting me. She voted me and ignores it afterwards. Has scum reads but doesn't really press. Accuses a much less active pigeon of the same thing.
Shiro might be scum: keeps up with the thread kinda sorta, seems to just be playing around with bassoon. People seem to ignore her for the most part. I didn't like 297
Alchemist might be scum: simply notes things, makes everyone aware he's keeping up. Talk about lynching but people get sidetracked and few follow through.
Garmr might be scum. Tunnels me as "pushing town read" which I'm good with. Not a fan of the fact that he dropped the tunnel, hasn't moved on to anyone else, and is just kind of being ignored now.
Dapper Stranger or Aunt Jemima might be scum. Really shaky in these two. The former doesn't seem to care much what's going on and no one notices him. The latter seems to be doing some mixture of buddying and ignoring me. Not really pushing her reads, too much.

These reads were based on a theory of mine. Scum try not to recognize or interact too much day one. Especially with a large game where they can hide. Elyse is confident, though, so she's different. Also I think they're in different places and they don't like to vote together. If I had to call out a scum team out right now the people I mentioned above would be it. I'm not quite sure the number of scum, so I added the last two on as just in case.

This was assisted by the creation of this document:

The red lines are aggressiveness. The blue ones are smoothing things over.

I don't think Klingon is too likely to be scum. Too many votes on her, too many people interested. Same for passionate storm and grapes and pigeon. Itlepip seems to be figuring things out. Tso has gotten a bit of talk for few posts. Likely not scum, imo. Spider Gwen also too much crossfire, too in the middle of things.


I am innocent is strange, and strangely ignored. He might belong on the first list, but he's null for now. epidemiology is also everywhere and harder to read when it comes to this. Null for now.

The others haven't posted anything or post like once or twice, but my gizzard says shut up and don't worry about them for now.

I'll go more in depth tomorrow night and try both styles of reading together if I get the chance. There will be more to read into then. But for now, I have to say goodnight because I've gotta be at work in a couple hours and I need my beauty sleep

By the way if you feel like it you can vote Elyse with ms

Oh Shiro beat me too it. I noticed something late. Oh well.

FOS Alchemists

Now let's lynch Elyse

Hey alchemy if you help lynch Elyse then you won't be the one that does today.

@EE, What is your read on each person on the Klingon wagon?

AJ null/weak scum
Aneninen town
Elyse strong scum
Passionate Storm slight town
itlepip slight town

Interesting, but not scum, I don't think. The fos explanation makes sense, she was taking it slower to read people better. The other end of this is that it means she has to read people. Unfortunately her reads seem kind of OMGUS-y and not too in depth, but a lot of the time that's how town reacts under pressure, imo. Elyse's OMGUS was different, it was an over the top AtE OMGUS that she recognized in order to keep other people from getting a foothold on her. I don't like how long it's taking klingy to catch up in the thread or come up with reads, but I'm also not at all excited about the way she's being hounded by spifflop. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

1). In the early game a vote has so little value that FoS is like being worried about using a feather to hit someone so you use lint. And that is your only defense of Kling in this paragraph...

I think it's more a matter of empathy/an inside joke than an actual problem dealing with the game and alignment.

Sorry of a recognition of the fact that Klingon read Titus as being scummy but understood that that happened in the past to both of them and telling Titus she would give her more time before she made up her mind due to being under that kind of pressure before and hating it.

If this is true then there is quite a bit of irony to the situation, Klingon saw Titus as scum but have Grace hating the extra pressure she got and in return Titus put the pressure on Klingon.

It is the largest defense of Klingon because it defends the cornerstone of the argument against her.

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

That's true and I will relinquish that her argument in that post was perhaps a bit better than my own, but I do not believe the argument against her is truly defined by her ability to respond and act and wave off accusations, because these are the things, I think, that make scum more often than town

@EE - 799

First, who doyou believe is town reading Klingon due to her reads? Her reads are in 790. All posts after that say lynch her. Why do you believe her reads are legit? I don't see you having a rational posting here but having conclusions and fitting your beliefs to them.

As for Elyse, you should be able to summarize what is important in a paragraph or two. I can ask you what posts support which statements.

1. I believe it is possible Klingon's explanation for her RVS is relevant.
2. Her lack of reads is one hundred percent justifiable by the fact that she is being hounded for them consistently.

I am surprised to see you scum read and tunnel her so hard. It actually shocks me to think that you might fo this as town. I am quite tempted to vote for you right now, but even you, I don't think, are as worthy of a lynch as Elyse is as you showed when you indirectly defended her by taking the argument I made, attempting to defeat rather than discuss it (although I foolishly hoped for the latter) which shows you are willing to read my arguments, by the way, and then come and do this the way you're doing it right now.

No, I shouldnt read you out of my personal emotions, that's how I screw things up, but I lost my town read on you the moment you refused to respond to my rebuttal.

Starting to think EE is a Klingon scumbuddy.

~Spiffy

Reads can change so fast when they oppose your strongly held opinions, can't they?

Wow, that was quite well thought out. I'll drop Elyse for now, I don't have the energy at this moment in time to continue pushing that lynch. And spifflop practically completely clears Klingon. So,

VOTE: spifflop

Passionate storm, Elyse, pip, spiffeh lop, Varsoon, Garmr

Applying TSO AJ , Spider Gwen

Gun to head town TWIE but his lack of content and votes makes me not care if he dies

Need to get invested: Shiro Mohis interest errant, Shiro voting scum is a good sign

Gun to head scum PV

You have a lot of scum on your town list. You should take them off or I'll have you quicklynched after spifflop

[I Am Innocent]

Lots of dead town that EE suspected, try to push a number of counterwagons to Klingon, while not fully defending her at times (see post 482 "I don't think Klingon is too likely to be scum")

Kind of how it expect a scum mate to act.

Checking d4 vote count now

[I Am Innocent]

vote: Extrapolated Eagle

[I Am Innocent]

Are you forgetting ur fos of alch? Or how you said dapper might be strong.

My argument isn't just bad reasons, but u flip flip on ur town/null read throughout the day while pushing other wagons (at least 4 of which we know are town now), and then end of day after u bus u start putting connections with Klingon if she flips scum. Quite the 180 wouldn't u say?

[I Am Innocent]

*dapper might be scum

[I Am Innocent]

*my argument isn't just bad reads

* u flip flop on ur town null read of klingon

Hate phone posting!

[I Am Innocent]

Also people should make up their mind whether they think it's vig or sk. Not whatever is convenient

I thought we had both, Didn't we?

I'd like an explanation too on what EE is implying.

[I Am Innocent]

Ugh. I don't want to play "guess which lurker is scum" that's no fun.

If EE flips scum I'm willing to bet he has at least one partner lurking.

[I Am Innocent]

Alright. I took some time to calm down and think things over.

My mind is going a little all over the place right now because random being doc and protecting TSO and then voting for him doesn't make too much sense in my opinion. But...

TSO thinking I wanted to replace out because I'm scum who thinks I can't win the game because I can't get him voted fits with the mindset of arrogant town, imo. So for now he's a town read.

Titus and is conftown and I'm not quite sure why she hasn't been NKd yet. Maybe because scum haven't seen her as pushing town in the right direction. Or they were afraid doc would protect her.

Random is probably town. It's interesting to find out that TSO hasn't been targeted yet by scum but maybe it's because he keeps pushing quicklynches on town and repeatedly runs over everyone else.

MOHIS is interesting. I like that he's been more active and I don't want to scare him out of continuing that streak. I think maybe town after that hammer yesterday and his frustration, but I would like some scum reads from him.

Innocent might be town just trying to push us in a direction to get us moving again, so town again there maybe. His argument was bad but it got discussion up again I think in a way.

I agree with TSO that varsoon is probably vig who's kind of just given up after hitting town twice? Something like that.

Which leaves me with errant and Elyse are probably scum. ZZZX as well. Errant acknowledged that the random or eagle pool was a piece of craps and tried to push it anyways. All three seem kind of ehhh on things and trying hard not to stand out.

Shio is still kind of nullish, but I'm leaning scum again on her.

Would scum EE not mention a scum partner (PV?) or give the sort of read they gave with MOHIS (or both)?

[I Am Innocent]

EP I swear. If you're not scum than TSO is. So we can either lynch tso or you can hammer, unless you have a better wagon to propose. I guess it's possible we have an all lurker scum team, but I don't think that's likely and honestly if we lynch tso and for some reason he flips town then I'm coming after you tomorrow and TSO won't be there to save you this time.

Not a fan of the 180 from your town read of TSO in post 3360 to this. Also what happened to all your other scum reads in 3360 besides EP?

I still think this is the best lynch for today.

[I Am Innocent]

Not to muddy the waters but

claim even night vig

Sorry for the bad shots, from the little I read grapes and shiro felt like good targets...

[I Am Innocent]

vote: IAI

[I Am Innocent]

Jason, thanks again for a great game. Sorry I lurked thru most of it, fell behind and real life issues. Count me in for the 5th edition!

Elyse, great job bringing it home. You had little margin for error. Garmr, also a good job for most of the game.

[I Am Innocent]

GG, can I just point out I was on every scum lynch and no town lynches whilst I was alive.
@Jason even if mafia thread isn't opened, could you share the actions? I want to see if I got any successful protects off. Thanks for modding!

I was a 2 shot assassin. You stopped my 2nd kill on TSO N2.

I believe that was the only blocked shot.