You could be Anyone IV - GAME OVER

[Errantparabola]

Nice seeing you again Titus, Klingon, Vedith, Fire, Eagle, Spiffeh, Varsoon.

VOTE: eagle
why no vote?

[Errantparabola]

Since when is provocation early in the game a scummy thing to do?

I assume your philosophy is "provoking people in RVS is good because it gets us out of RVS and it also gets information."

Then why are you intentionally withholding a vote?

[Errantparabola]

I'm waiting. It will come. Patience. Which is more provocative, a vote, or none? Based on your reaction, I must say that the latter seems more true.

This is you trying to imply that you're purposely not voting in order to gauge reactions by people noting that you're not voting. I don't buy that.

You're being cautious. I don't like that. It screams scum Titus.

Is this in regards to Titus not pushing eagle?

[Errantparabola]

Titus. Do you think that acting town should be implicit or explicit?

[Errantparabola]

Sorry. How I see it, town should be acting town to others along with scumhunting. Do you think that town should actively point out the town things that they are doing to accomplish this goal?

[Errantparabola]

Eagle-

1) For clarification, are you actively claiming to be purposely withholding a vote in order to gauge reactions from people that notice it?
2) In response to your question, I post what I think I can bring to the table. If something has already been said, no need to say it again.

[Errantparabola]

Titus (or PS, whichever you prefer)-
66 struck me as elaborating on 61, except pointing to it as something town would do. I'm thinking it's justified under the context of Gwen's question, though

[Errantparabola]

I didn't like the tunneling. But I especially didn't like the way he backed off at the end.

By all means, please explain how I backed off.
By the way, I still don't buy the reason you're not voting. At all.

[Errantparabola]

But he kept asking silly questions on the lack of vote while implying that a vote gets more reactions, even after my lack of vote has gotten far more responses from multiple people and I think the responses are more genuine because I believe the intentional lack of vote is not expected. So blatantly ignoring facts to pursue a read and tunnel through certain other interesting things going on around him such as the aneninen accusation or the Gwen response, or even you, which he eventually pursued but backed off to state something reasonable and kind of defend you in a strange way. On top of this, he backs off slightly to clarify, and then responds unreasonably when I call him out on it. In my experience, town is far more unreasonable than scum- they're lives are slightly more expendable and they have less to work with, so they in a way have to be somewhat unreasonable to force frantic scum to try to reason with them or get in an argument with another town, and thus gain a read.

Let's break this down
1) I think there's some sort of misunderstanding between us. I don't think you not voting is scummy. I think that your reasons for not voting are scummy.
2) I wasn't "pursuing" PS. I asked something that I eventually realized was a dumb question. At the time, I thought that it was odd that Titus was pointing to something that she did as town, and asked that question because I wanted to see if it was because of playstyle.
3) I don't like how you parrot PS's curiosity as to my "theory" question. Seems like you were really quick to attack me on that question being useless because someone gave you an opening to do that.
4) I still don't see how I'm backing off. And I don't see how I'm being unreasonable. If I am being unreasonable, then you're saying that I'm town. In addition, your whole "reasonable read" is no good in my opinion.
5) I don't buy the Gwen response. I don't really buy the Aneninen accusation. Nothing to say about them because I don't think there's anything that signifies the accuser or the accusee (that's not a word) as town or scum.

I'd like to add to this and state that I believe there IS another type of town that would prefer to sit back and watch, I.e. myself, as well as other players in this game, I believe, but even these players can be forced to scrambling in the dirt with everyone else should no one else create enough content.

I understand. I really do. But I'd like to point out that it's very possible that this is scum here justifying a lack of scumhunting in the future. Setting the stage to defend against future attacks, if you will.

[Errantparabola]

to clarify my response to 101:
I don't think that you sitting back and watching is alignment indicative.
However, I don't like that you felt the need to say that unprovoked.

[Errantparabola]

to clarify my response to 101:
I don't think that you sitting back and watching is alignment indicative.
However, I don't like that you felt the need to say that unprovoked.

I think he was sufficiently provoked.

I see how Eagle would come to the conclusion that I think him not voting is scummy. But I don't think that. I just don't believe that Eagle made the conscious decision to not vote in hopes that someone with an RVS voting philosophy like me would come along and question him on it.

To respond to your SG question. Too early for a read on SG or you right now. The one thing I find odd is how you speculated whether SG is aggressive town or desperate scum. I don't think aggression is alignment indicative at all and don't see why you would think others would. But I will go and reread the exchange after a shower. PSGreen, why do you think that SG is scum?

[Errantparabola]

One more thing before I go.

I find it hard to consolidate the attitude of "prefer to sit back and watch" with the action of "purposely do something in hopes that it will provoke someone"

[Errantparabola]

This sounds like you have more here, but you don't want to give the analysis because it's easier to go after Eagle.

How did you take "nothing to say about them" and get "this sounds like you have more here"

I'll try and wrap my head around 119 in a minute
But 126 actually isn't that bad.

And Eagle, thank you for finally providing evidence as to your non-voting strategy instead of writing it off as "silly"

[Errantparabola]

1. Ep saw someone not voting
2. Ep took the bait and voted easy way
Clarifying: nothing up to here is scummy or towny. Just falling for bait.
3. Ep reacts aggressively, using argument that not voting doesn't get people to react aggressively
4. I watch and wait
5. Ep continues aggression
6. I tell Ep he is being silly and start to give up on anyone voting for bait
7. Ep backs off a little to explain himself and realizes his argument is self-contradictory
This is kind of scummy because usually town pursue reads excessively beyond a shadow of a doubt, imo. But backing off is ok. He could be reasonable type
8. Ep responds to being called out for backing off by attacking again
This is definitely scummy for obv reasons
9. Ep makes a bs argument to pursue in order to try to look like town again and maybe distract me from other things because I'm busy responding to him.

Other reasons I'm scum reading him:
1. Tunnels me and ignores Gwen - kinda scummy but not super
2. No one votes for him as bait. Also very slight

2) What does "voted easy way" mean? To me, that doesn't sound like something town would do. And yet, you say that it isn't scummy or towny.
7) This logic is incredibly shady. Town pursues reads excessively beyond a shadow of a doubt? Are you kidding? Where the hell did you pull that from?
8) And you still haven't explain where the hell I've "backed off." Try and explain that to me before basing an argument off of it.
9) I'm glad that you think that you can just write off an argument as BS without proving it and expect me to believe it.

As for the other reasons.
1) You know, it could be possible that I don't actually think that the Gwen v PS thing is alignment indicative. But of course, since I don't agree with you, I must be scum.
2) No one is voting for me. Must be scum. Hmm.

Oh, and by the way, what happened to the whole "theory" attack? Still think that I'm scum for that?

[Errantparabola]

Nothing in 142 actually matters that much... Eagle is probably town. I see where you got the whole non-voting shit from now.

[Errantparabola]

I take that back. I don't think Eagle is town. More like null. UNVOTE:
Give me some time to think

[Errantparabola]

You said that you didn't buy what either of us said, which means that you had a problem with what was said. That means there's some analysis of some sort there. But you don't focus on any of that and instead go after Eagle, which is a bit easy at this point. It sounds like you actually have something deeper about our back and forth, and it worries me that you would not at least give further thought on it, which you clearly have, choosing to instead focus on one thing: Eagle.

I think I addressed this in an earlier post but I don't remember.
Basically I saw your case, and didn't think it was strong enough to merit a vote or for me to believe you. But I don't think that you being aggressive means anything, both town and scum can push an early read. Since I don't buy your case on PS, and I don't think you making the case makes you lean either way, it doesn't affect me.

I focused on Eagle for reasons I've already addressed. I don't think he was an easy target at the time. Maybe at this point. But at the time only PS had anything to say about eagle, as I'm sure you're well aware.

I'll have to look at 151 with more depth. Elyse's other posts look like town, though. Probably tomorrow, it's getting late. But I'll still be around.

[Errantparabola]

Actually wtf is this question supposed to accomplish?

I feel like I haven't been clear on this.
I thought PS was doing something that might be suspicious, but I thought I needed to know more about Titus' playstyle. So I asked that question. After the answer, I realized that either way it didn't point to anything suspicious anyway.

[Errantparabola]

Feeling good overall on my Titus read. She should be putting in more effort if town. Her switching to attack mode is not a good sign.

What do you mean by attack mode? Am I mistaken in thinking that your early push on Titus was that she wasn't being aggressive enough?

[Errantparabola]

EP what are your some of your thoughts outside of EE?

~Spiffy

I can definitely follow and agree with what most of what Gwen is saying outside of the Titus read and the Garmr trying to interact with Gwen being town points.
So for that, Gwen is town.

Don't understand the townreads on AJ.

209 don't understand if this is legitimate misunderstanding or just a deflection. I'm leaning towards the latter.
That being said I don't think 172 seems rehearsed and although I am slightly uncomfortable with how spifflop says it is (172 seemed like a post that someone who wanted to push a mislynch would say is rehearsed), the lop part is acting pretty towny.

I do not like 203. VOTE: itlepip
Disregarding whether or not 172 is genuine

[Errantparabola]

Spoiler: Page 9

217 I am very uneasy with you trying to say that your 203, which amounted to "hey, you should read me as scum" as a joke rather than an attempt to look town. I didn't, and still don't really think that it was a joke.

Unvoting him after you modified your read from town to null?

Is this a problem?

i wonder if 5-6 people scumreading klingon for making a bold fos means anything

I'd like to see what you think it means. I don't like how you don't provide this information.

Spoiler: Page 10

Can you link that game cause right now I'm leaning scum there?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63747
I wouldn't put much stock in it though, I feel like I'm new enough so that I'm experimenting with playstyle.

Interesting that you point out the buddying towards AJ, yet your vote doesn't go towards any player buddying her.

How does "I don't understand the townreads" equate to "I think people are buddying AJ"

What is your problem with iteplop's 203? Garmr did a similar thing right before him.

You are right, I glossed over that post. I don't like 202 either. Gonna look at Garmr's ISO.

This doesn't feel like town Anen. It's all random, meaningless observations with no follow-up.

I'm also beginning to get this vibe, but I sort of wrote it off as playstyle. Have you entertained that possibility?

Oh by the way there was a game I got Day1 lynvhed in because of similar posts. If interested, I'll search for it.

And this supports that original thought.

Spoiler: Page 11

so many awesome people in this game

Just gonna assume that you forgot to mention me

Actually, if I was scum, I would AVOID putting my neck on the line to get some reads at game start. It just doesn't seem smart to start the game attracting a whole lot of attention that I really don't like when I play scum.

You've already proven you can think ahead. What's to say that you didn't put your neck on the line just so that you can use this defense later?
I personally don't believe it, just want to hear your response.

i wonder if 5-6 people scumreading klingon for making a bold fos means anything

If Klingon flips scum this is her buddy.

~Spiffy

I... highly doubt that

Also stop buddying me I haven't done anything to warrant a town read yet.
hiplop has though

~Spiffy

This is along the same vein as 203. I find that questioning someone's townread on you or asking why someone isn't scumreading you is extremely low-hanging fruit for scum to grab. I get it if you're pushing on them for some disingenuous logic but you don't seem to be doing that. So it doesn't really add anything to the game except for "hey look at me I'm unafraid to be scumread!"

[Errantparabola]

I liked it because it stood out. I didn't see scum sticking their neck put for something like that.

I asked grapes why they neglected to provide a firm stance on what happened with kling and chose to ask an open ended question. They did not respond. I think that they are trying to avoid sticking their neck out, if anything.

I can join the fruit train, itlepip is going nowhere.
VOTE: grapes

[Errantparabola]

Itlepip, Do you not remember making 217?

I also dislike his willingness to provide self-meta of when he got lynched for similar reasons. He's aware of his own meta and could imitate it as scum and be all "look I acted this way when I was town see"

This resonates with me and my train of thought.

[Errantparabola]

Spifflop, I see you pushing on Alchemist for a bad push on Anen but what are your thoughts on Anen?

[Errantparabola]

Spifflop, you're my top townread. Just wanted to let you know.
Elyse is a ways behind you but still towny.

[Errantparabola]

Pedit: oh god... I don't want to argue about a joke post and semantics again please, yeah nvm forget I asked. That was and will always be a joke post though.

What about my post signaled to you I wanted to have an argument?
I don't understand why you would preemptively retract your question like this.

[Errantparabola]

itlepip, gimme a sec and I'll take a peek at your argument.

[Errantparabola]

itlepip, I might be reading this wrong, but your case seems to be a misunderstanding.

I think the gambit Eagle speaks of first is the whole "not voting" gambit
The gambit Eagle speaks of as being too risky is the whole "getting involved in everything point that Garmr made" gambit

Correct me if I'm wrong, Eagle

[Errantparabola]

Itlepip, what do you think about my interpretation on your eagle is lying case

[Errantparabola]

Catchup on pages 16-22 coming in a few hours.
Damn, that's a lot of pages

[Errantparabola]

Page 16 to 18

Change

Town: spifflop, Elyse, Garmr, EP
Weak Town: TSO
Gun to head scum: AJ, Eagle
Scum: Klingon, grapes, spider, Anen, Klingon

When Kling is so scum that she's on there twice

I'm bugged by Grapes' thing. Is he buddying me? Maybe, but I think he's setting up mislynches, as in, "Oh look, those guys all called poor Klingon Scum but she flipped Town - they must be Scum!!"

Is this a scumread on grapes or are you just speculating to seem reluctant to accept a townread?

Question to Titus: You said that you could read Kling with 75% certainty at the end of D1. Have you entertained the possibility of your current scumread on Kling changing by that time?
Because we could lynch someone that's harder to read right now and lynch kling later.
I just have a hard time wrapping my head around Kling's obstinacy looking like scum.
Like, I can easily see town going into a game with less reads than usual, and then being truthful about it. Wouldn't scum just make up some reads as some form of appeasement?

I also get this nagging feeling that spiff is playing differently than he is in history maf. Might re-skim that game in the future, but just something to throw out there.

[Errantparabola]

Page 19 to 21

Reading Page 19 is making Eagle slowly veer back onto my scum list

482-
Eagle I can't see your image so I'm just gonna ignore it.
But the gist of what I'm getting is that "being in the middle of things" is towny and I don't know if I agree with that

Apologies. It is late, and I saw your post and typed out your name

yes, I meant errant. I do however appreciate his support of the FRUIT WAGON and hes not at the top of our radar, spideygwenny

just because I'm voting the same person as you are makes me less suspicious? Explain

Unusual at best.

Why would I vote a null read?

[Errantparabola]

Page 22-24

eagle, your townread on me is out of place, considering ive done next to nothing

This is the stuff that I hate right here.

I asked grapes why they neglected to provide a firm stance on what happened with kling and chose to ask an open ended question. They did not respond. I think that they are trying to avoid sticking their neck out, if anything.

I can join the fruit train, itlepip is going nowhere.
VOTE: grapes

kinda hard to respond when i haven't been here

and when you put your question in a spoiler lols

Just for you, I'm putting my catchup in multiple posts.

anyone voting spider gwen: wtf are you doing??????

It's not like anyone on that wagon is particularly towny

spifflop, thoughts on the fruit train now that grapes is responding to some things?

Going back to the big list that EE gave earlier (the one with the image that I couldn't see) I absolutely HATE how Eagle says that "Elyse is confident enough so that getting into the middle of things doesn't bother them" SCREAMS conf bias to me

...where does this jump come from? I'd really love to see your thought process here.

Basically the main reason I was scumreading him was because I found it hard to believe that Eagle would go through with the non-voting gambit, but he provided evidence as to why that was true so I decided that point was a wash

VOTE: eagle

I'm going back to this, mainly because IDK about the grapes wagon anymore (I want spiff's input), and I honestly am not so sure about spifflop-town anymore. Also very hesitant to join Kling wagon
Elyse why Kling > Eagle?

[Errantparabola]

Somewhat disappointed that my catchup completely slipped under the radar. Does anyone have anything to say about it?
I'll respond to the last 4 pages when I have some more time as well.

[Errantparabola]

Garmr calling someone incompetent is offensive no matter what the reason is. Whatever. That's all I'm gonna say on the matter

If Spifflop is offended then Spifflop would say so. No need to white knight for spiffy they are adults.

I honestly don't remember the definition of white knight, but it seems like you're trying to paint eagle as scum for that post and that's terrible

[Errantparabola]

Looking over 708 right now.
Took me three tries to realize that the spoiler on Elyse's reads list was purposely empty, holy shit I'm dumb
I was initially skeptical of Eagle's read on Elyse because of one early thing I remember being "scum usually doesn't want to get in the middle of things, but Elyse is scum because of getting in the middle of things because Elyse is confident scum" which was very sketchy to me (correct me if I'm wrong on that one, Eagle, because my memory is quite hazy)
But other than that, the case is well constructed. Eagle I've had several encounters with you where I've called your logic bad but I don't really have much to say on this one.
The one thing i'm unsure of is your whole idea of Elyse being opportunistic scum by switiching reads around. I really don't see how switching votes often leads to scummy behavior. I agree with what Titus said about optimal scum play being to push one person strongly to get a mislynch.
I don't really know how what Elyse is doing would lead to a scum victory, could you go in depth on that (or if you already have, please point me to it)

I'm also slightly concerned how you openly state you refuse to interact with your scumreads. Just because you're confident that someeone is scum doesn't mean the rest of us are. So interacting would be a help.

p-edit looked quickly at your recent post and it looks like some of my questions might be answered there. Will respond to that, but for now Eagle, you ain't lookin' too bad. I think I might want to try and reevaluate you because I see you coming up with some decent content.
I see me in the future being less confident with any possible scummy thing you might do actually coming from a scum slot because I've convinced myself otherwise twice now, and I'm getting closer to thinking it might be something akin to playstyle

UNVOTE:

[Errantparabola]

@Extrapolated Eagle, I like the effort your putting into this, but I can gurantee you will get burned out pretty quickly at this if you try to keep that amount for whole game. The game speed for this is much different than a blitz. Its more casual game.

I like you man, don't get burned out.

-Fire

gj on proving this wrong eagle lol

[Errantparabola]

I think the fos might have been genuine, but addressing the posts she addressed instead of the main stuff and not sharing really any reads /not scumhunting, that's scummy.

That said, it's not really scummy enough for me to want to lynch her over Elyse, and her things can be explained by misunderstandings, quirkiness, mistakes. They're small and repetitive, something scum is rarely guilty of, in my experience.

I came to a pretty similar conclusion on Kling as right here. You're resonating with me Eagle and that's a good thing.

Sorry, I should restate: I don't have a problem with people voting Klingon. The story could definitely go that she's scum. However the other side of the story is still plausible enough to me to not want to vote her yet. And I don't see scum motivation behind her posts. The posts merely seen scummy in and of themselves instead of telling a story. So I would prefer for the lynch to be Elyse today over anyone else, but you're right, I don't have the power to make everyone vote for her.

Agree with the kling part yet again.

Not pushing votes does two things
1. Similarly to avoiding being first and last on a wagon, the fact that when people come back to see why this person was lynched when they were town, they look, see no push coming out of Elyse, and all of a sudden she's town because she was just sheeping.
2. It keeps people from responding with too much serious content, pushing to the point where it becomes obvious person is town. To the point where they release their feelings under frustration and then it's one more nk they have to perform because they have a hard time pushing that lynch
3. It makes her look active and involved, when she's really kind of sidelining.

1. I've seen scum start wagons, scum hammer, scum sheep. I've also seen town do all these things. Sheeping doesn't equal town and I think that most people know that. From what I see, Elyse has been actually making poitns on here reads and that makes her accountable for them.
2. Not understanding number 2, can you explain
3. I also don't really see Elyse sidelining, could you point me to some things you've said about this?

Eagle I really honestly appreciate the effort you've put into this game. Doesn't make you town or scum, but I respect it none the less and I'm interesting in hearing your response to this.

[Errantparabola]

Elyse has been actually making poitns on here reads and that makes her accountable for them.

I'm actually not 100% sure on this. It's ISO time.

[Errantparabola]

Okay, maybe not to the extent that I was imagining but I still see Elyse pushing her reads to a certain extent.
Definitely not to the point where someone could look back on Day 1 and say "Elyse was just sheeping"

[Errantparabola]

Starting to think EE is a Klingon scumbuddy.

~Spiffy

At this point I find it more likely for scum to be either completely ignoring kling or bussing them, thoughts?

After that I think I got pretty much everyone participating the rest are kinda null

no love for me

-If you felt the previous evidence against Eagle was a wash, why did you return to the vote?
-Why do you ask for Spifflop's imput twice and then say you're not sure they're town?
-Why are you hesitant to vote Klingon?

I'm sure there was some other thing that I found scummy in eagle. I'll go back and find it if you desperately need it.
Because spiff was the main advocate for grapes wagon and I wanted to know if the sudden influx of grapes input changed something.
I think 608 answers for my hesitation. Sorry my answers aren't verbose, I'm really tired and will get back to this game after a nap

NHHHHHH!
Who knows the feeling when you're observing a bird with a pair of binoculars and someone grabs your binoculars for a second and when they give it back to you, all you can see is the landscape instead of the cute little bird?
This post felt like so.

I'm sorry... what?

[Errantparabola]

Today was a stupidly busy day for me. Tomorrow will be as well. Don't worry, I'll get caught up Saturday evening.

[Errantparabola]

Ohhhhhhhhhh yes. It's time for the highly anticipated catchup

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 38 to 41

Let's look at 947, the Kling reads list.
I shrug my shoulders on the lurker scumreads.
I don't see scum motivation with the description you place on itlepip, klingon. Care to explain?
Agreed with your Eagle read. If eagle is scum let's give him a "Best Bullshitter in the Universe" award for sure
Overall, it seems you're pulling scumreads out of nowhere. I don't like your itlepip reads and it looks like your lurker scumreads are designed to inflate your scumreads list to make it look like you're scumhunting.

948 and aneninen criticized me for being vague. Damn son

Even if the whole game is about shouting at each other, waging flame wars against each other, making others upset and getting upset because of others, at moments like this I hope you can feel that you're amongst friends after all.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I send my best wishes, hiplop.

OH damn, a spifflop wagon happening on page 39. That's a twist.

Spitflop's ISO, if one is investigating, is full of these kinds of posts where that one is assigning reads with no substance. This is sounding to a man as having come from an informed perspective.

I've definitely seen reads with no substance coming from town with equal frequency.
Confident players =/= scum players, even though scum are informed.

974 was a pretty good post. There was some good arguments but I disagree with the conclusion. I don't think giving null-leaning reads points to scum. But I think itlepip is pretty towny at this point.
987 also reads decently to me. Good work, soldier.
I also see consistent logic and train of thought coming from here

The other posts are naught but Klingon under pressure. She is pretty much sucking D1 as town and coming on strong late game. Which is why that one is a slam dunk for scum.

Question. Is kling's scumplay D1 any better? because from the comments I've seen regarding Kling's meta say otherwise. So Kling's behavior is at best non-indicative. Am I wrong?

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 42 to 45

Did you literally doubtcast me based on my job?

dying

Kling what's your read on dapper

grapes (5): Spider Gwen, Spifflop, Errantparabola, itlepip, Passionate Storm
This is not a wagon on a sour player.

There's actually only 2 names there that I hate.

just say who they are...

Errant and Stormy

You have not pushed me for this entire game. Care to start?
No seriously WTF? You don't interact with me this whole game and now you're coming out of the gate hating me?

In your case, the sheeping is just one of your tells. The far worse tell is your condescending attitude towards Town, basically telling us to work for you instead of you offering to work with us. Titus is doing the same thing, btw.

Question. Kling, is this a meta read or a general read

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 46 to 49

46 is just Spiffeh being towny town
Good stuff

I can't tell if Jaqen is scum with Klingon throwing her a bone or is just stubborn town.

Nah. I stand by my previous statement. If kling is scum, her pards are probably currently bussing her or taking a null stance.
The probability of kling being outed end of D1 and giving association tells is too high for them to take that risk.

Passionate storm, Elyse, pip, spiffeh lop, Varsoon, Garmr

Applying TSO AJ , Spider Gwen

Gun to head town TWIE but his lack of content and votes makes me not care if he dies

Need to get invested: Shiro Mohis interest errant, Shiro voting scum is a good sign

Gun to head scum PV

YO I got you, stormy it's INVESTING TIME
IDK about Elyse, Varsoon, and Garmr in the townblock though

I don't know about jaqen being scum honestly
This smells of TvT to me (The dapper v spiff)

p-edit stuff under this line
______________________________
KLING
Then I don't buy your itlepip read one bit.
I feel like I didn't need to ask the dapper question because I already knew the answer.

DAPPER
so you're saying that Kling's D1 behavior is NOT non-indicative at best? Because I remember you saying that kling's behavior is non-indicative somewhere in the pages that I'm caught up to.

SECOND P-EDIT

KLING. ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW.
The mutliball claim is a section that i'm not caught up to yet.
I'm asking you about your itlepip read as of your reads list post (947)
That's the read I don't buy.

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 50 to 53

Nothing much to say about these posts, so I'll treat myself to a haiku break

I am super pumped
Catch up time is best time, yo
Everyone ready?

[Errantparabola]

BTW I'll be more active consistently after this catchup
real life has been a real pain these past few days

PAGES 54 to 57
Heres hoping for some more noteworthy content

1331 oh boy, another reads list

He seems somewhat satisfied with the way things are which makes me think maybe both spittle and kling are town.

Okay so are you implying TSO is scum
And that your reads are wrong?

Recent interactions seem less and less motivated to reach a conclusion as a group and more and more like forcing her conclusion on the world, which might be personal style but also might be her knowing thought and doing well figures out she's talking weird

This is called being confident in reads

Errant is scummy when he isn't paying attention butbtown when he is. I don't like his bursting and someone of his logic seems off.

Just gonna ignore this because I can't make heads or tails of it (is that the expression?)

let's take a break to analyze the camps in the spiff war
pip, stormy, spiff are in one camp
dapper, kling, random, ee, grapes are in the other
The first one is definitely more towny but I think this whole spifflop ordeal is tvt in general
I wouldn't be surprised if scum was on spiff wagon though

And I am extremely interested in someone talking to me about Alchemist-scum because I'm hearing it in the background constantly and I'm sure someone in the game has a coherent reason for why they think it's true.

I am highly anticipating results from this question.
Alchemist has completely flown under the radar for me.

I am at Alchemist could be scum. I am not majorly confident of him being scum. Dapper Klingon random need to die first.

Storm please explain to me why you think scum would group together in one place instead of being scattered

TSO is proably town yo

p-edit
EE what?
1. AJ? talk to me after I catch up
2. I think you're scumreading me. Why are you trying to join forces with me?

Kling
gimme until I catch up for the whole multiball thought

Itlepip
Followed closely by my other posts, I am sure

[Errantparabola]

And kling, if you're here, respond to me.
Dapper, if you're here, definitely respond to me.

[Errantparabola]

PAGES 58 to 63

WE
ARE
ALMOST
THERE

GET PUMPED!!!

Half of the people you're naming here you have literally just picked out of a hat.

Agreed.

Eagle what's your kling read?
I know you were null-town sort of early game but what's up now?
okay never mind you voted kling.
okay never mind you unvoted kling.
despite my townread on you i ahve to agree with garmr. your behavior around kling is weird.

I really don't like how absent ep has been since we'be neared a lynch. And he moves WAY up on my suspect list if kling flips scum. Him and AJ both.

hey real life is a thing.
And my absence was not conditional on nearing lynch. I was absent way before then too.
So, yeah. Your push is vetoed

And I am extremely interested in someone talking to me about Alchemist-scum because I'm hearing it in the background constantly and I'm sure someone in the game has a coherent reason for why they think it's true.

I am highly anticipating results from this question.
Alchemist has completely flown under the radar for me.

As of 63 I saw no results from this question. That definitely means something.

yeah the multiball slip is bs i think

[Errantparabola]

I'm asking you about your itlepip read as of your reads list post (947)
That's the read I don't buy.

So you're saying that because there's no town motivation behind itlepip, that makes him scum? Why not null?
This is still about your pre-multiballslip read.

[Errantparabola]

What's the case on alch?

[Errantparabola]

What, I never claimed multiball. I meant two groups of different alignment. I didn't even know that multiball was a possibility this game until I was accused on crumbing it.

klingoncelt why is the multiball slip more likely than this

[Errantparabola]

She is either lurking it out or constantly contradicting herself as early game scum in a man's experience.

Is kling doing either of these things?

[Errantparabola]

Sorry, Shiro. Not trying to ignore you, there's a lot in this game to work through.
Looks like SG is continuing to ignore me from a quick glance at ISO.
An alch wagon seems pretty good to me. If it gets down to a deadline scramble I don't have any qualms about voting kling either.

alchemist21

I want to know what everyone on the spifflop and elyse wagons thinks about an alch wagon.

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: alchemist21
my clicking aim is clearly not very good

[Errantparabola]

VOTE: kling

i still think an alch wagon is a LOT better
but as people have said, people aren't going to change their minds anytime soon

[Errantparabola]

Talk.

Sure. How's the weather?

We lynch in the Spifflop counterwagon today, presumably.
I'm goinng to see who was on it.

I saw the selfvote in 2030 and decided to ignore every single other word in that post

[Errantparabola]

grapes dap eag rand
although I wouldn't mind alch getting nk'd

VOTE: dapper stranger

i would rather grapes. I think it's risky (but not unfeasible) of a move for scum partner to go and outright townread scumbuddying who is getting lots of heat.
grapes' attitude is a lot more similar to what I would expect from scumbuddy. maybe random too.

[Errantparabola]

dapper stranger what are your thoughts on grapes

[Errantparabola]

dapper, what are your thoughts on grapes? Sorry if you've already answered this.

[Errantparabola]

Jeez, TheWayItEnds that just feels odd.

I don't even think I should be viewed as town at this moment, and I saw my role pm.

-Fire

Is it just "odd" or is it scum?
Please answer this question.

[Errantparabola]

MOHIS is hard town for me.

How am I town for you?

Like I should be Null at best for everyone. I haven't made actual content post or post many thoughts this game.

Where are you getting this?

Jeez, TheWayItEnds that just feels odd.

I don't even think I should be viewed as town at this moment, and I saw my role pm.

-Fire

This response is pretty townie. Lols.

Really? Cause I don't think so.

[Errantparabola]

@errant, why not?

@twie, can you vote DS for me? I think vca is dead this game.

If someone townreads you, and you think that person townreading you is suspect for doing so, you should be pushing on them.
Saying things like "oh, idk, it feels odd" and "you know, I really think that I shouldn't be viewed as town" is SUCH AN EASY WAY to grab a few town points for scum and in my opinion is null at best.
I don't think it's explicitly scum, because of mohis' response to my 2408, which made it look like mohis was actually waiting to see a response from twie to see if they should push.
But definitely not a townpost like other people are saying.

[Errantparabola]

I'll go look at dapper again after I reread this game, but I'm still very not excited about lynching him. Especially after he flipped to scum reading me.

Hey Eagle.
What does this mean?
Also when you said you wanted me to talk, did you have anything in mind?

[Errantparabola]

It means that dapper going from towniest town on me to probably scum makes me think he suffered from the same confusion and frustration I went through when Klingon flipped town, spiff and itlepip were killed, and Titus came into today knowing what she wanted to do with no confusion whatsoever.

I did want to talk to you. I was suspicious of you at the time. Still am, kind of. I wanted to know your read if alch, aj, and dapper after the flip. Now I want to add spider Gwen and Titus to that list. If possible. I know that's a long list, so it's ok if you just share like super basic reads and then I can ask questions where neededd.

Your first thing still doesn't make sense to me.
What was confusing about it? How does DS flipping on you signal their frustration?

Your second thing. I went on alch d1 so it's pretty clear that I think alch is the best lynch today. But now that I think about it, his counterwagon status both d1 and now looking like d2 makes me less confident in him being scum. If DS flips scum, then I would definitely consider reevaluating alch read. Actually, I think that grapes is the best bet for scum today.

AJ IDK. i'd have to iso but i don't think AJ is a problem.

Dapper I actually don't know. but I do think that a dapper flip will give us a lot of information.

Titus is likely town. Not as obvtown as spifflop, though. I'm trusting Titus on the SG read.

[Errantparabola]

Can you hammer EP?

I don't want this going on during Christmas.

~Titus

pretty sure i was already voting

[Errantparabola]

So the fact that shiro brought up alch as a possible counter to Klingon might make shiro more likely to be scum.

I am like 90% sure that shiro was pushing alch before kling was the definite candidate to lynch d1.

[Errantparabola]

I don't remember who said it (I think it was DS?) but someone said why would I go from Klingon scum and move my vote instead to Alch scum. So that made sense to me.
I don't think Shiro scum for it, though. Shiro was pushing alch before it was cool.

[Errantparabola]

phoneposting. i'll come up with something coherent in a few hours

[Errantparabola]

Passionate Storm

- Obviously DS didn't think PS was town. Perhaps a reevaluation of D2 needs to be made, but I personally believe that scum would do more in the name of indirect framing rather than the outright if-he's-town-i'll-eat-my-hat attitude that PS took. I don't think a town read is set in stone, but either way, I'm leaning towards town for PS, tentatively.

Garmr

- 1405 summarizes Garmr's early D1 play pretty well. I think that ultimately that early play comes from a town frame of mind. The fact that garmr pushes eagle over the much easier DS lynch D2 solidifies my townread on Garmr.

I Am Innocent

- Drags feet on the Alch lynch, doesnt have any counterpush. Of course this is likely due to inactivity, but I'm not going to write it off as a town move. It could be scum that's behind and not wanting to incriminate himself with any particular strong stances. It could be town that legitimately has no strong stances. Either way, this slot is not someone we can have in a LYLO situation.

inte

- Again, not a slot we can have in a LYLO situation.

PeregrineV

- Same as inte.

TheWayItEnds

- I strongly disagree with the MOHIS read. Note how TWIE mentiones the grapes kill with a town read that he never projected in thread. This to me reads like inconsistent play or trying to grab credit with a read that somehow materialized postmortem. The one thing that makes me less confident in this being scum is the tone of TWIE's posts.

T S O

- Fuck it. Town.

Shiro

- I want Shiro's post Alchemist wagons. I'm taking note of the fact that Alchemist was almost certainly a Klingon counterwagon and Shiro opening up that possibility. But overall, consistent play.

My Other Head Is Scum

- Constantly questions own townreads. I don't like that because it comes without a push. That policy request I'm going to write off as non-indicative, but I think it's fake.

Extrapolated Eagle

- EE's consistent attempts to interact with a scumread of his (me) mean one of two things. 1) He isn't afraid to go toe to toe with someone he scumreads rather than just pushing the lynch. 2) His play is pretty consistent. If scum, then good scum. But I think town.

Aneninen

- The clotilde gambit ultimately seems to me like a town-motivated move. Other posts seem town.

randomidget

- Was on the attempted Spifflop counterwagon. Was a klingon straggler. Play seems ultimately very reactive under pressure. What I do like is wagon analysis on alch, pointing out that alch is the klingon counterwagon. I wholeheartedly agree with that, it might be the keystone to my current gameview. Ultimately I believe scum.

Errantparabola

- I've lived with this person for many a year. Smells bad.

Elyse

- D1 play is good. I don't feel as confident with Elyse's D2 play but I can't really pinpoint anything that sets me off. Elyse is someone I'd consider voting but ultimately a null read, simply because I don't feel comfortable with saying she is town.

Varsoon

- Isn't really a presence in this game. Has been on all the lynching wagons. Needs to do more.

VOTE: MOHIS

[Errantparabola]

@PS
Why Shiro town? I was there for it but then when you look back she was pushing on town through the Kling lynch and compromised on Jaqen who was also town.

For the most part I like errant's reads but there are a lack of hard stances. I also think a MOHIS vote is pretty random coming from that list.

MOHIS is one of the few people who has actually made posts that I dislike rather than just being someone I would be fine lynching.

@EP. I like your reads for the most part. I would like to know: what were you thinking when I pushed Elyse lynch d1? Looking back it was a shit push on my part.

I remember pretty much dismissing it. I'll bet if someone looked at my ISO, there wouldn't be a lot regarding it.

[Errantparabola]

Sorry, something has come up.
V/LA until 1/5

[Errantparabola]

Eagle, i am quite sure that i explicitly responded to your elyse question.
I didnt care for your read.

The one thing preventing me from voting aneninen is the clotilde gambit because ultimately that was really game-solvy.
Im happy with my mohis vote after reading the past 20-odd pages.

[Errantparabola]

Note: i am not back from vla, i just had a spare twenty minutes to blaze through the past few pages and make a quick post.
Again, sorry about my inactivity.

[Errantparabola]

If it winds down to it and people arent convinced on mohis
Which it seems like thats whats going to happen
Innocent and random are my choices for vote

[Errantparabola]

alright, eagle.
let us dance.

That would be awesome if you could confirm this for me because I can quote where you showed otherwise and then we can confirm your lynch today after adding lynch all liars to the reasons you're scum.

uh huh. sure.
i put elyse on the backburner because i thought a large part of your case could be dismissed as conf bias and there was bigger fish to fry d1 fmpov.
idk if i was chronologically focused on you back then, but i know you took up a lot of my time d1.

Errant because he's buddies people- he called spiff town for no reason and his friends appear out of thin air. Just town reads whenever convenient. He also showed interest in Elyse as counter wagon to Klingon(who flipped scum) but his interest last an entire post and then it disappeared into thin air after people started getting called out for it. His reads day one flipped back and forth literally in back to back posts and they flipped seemingly depending on who it looked like was under pressure. Yes also taken no strong stances on really anything and has lurked like shot since d1 ended.

1. Spiff was fucking town. No reason my ass.
2. So is all of this D1 evidence something that you just came up with now to frame me? Where's the fucking consistency? Why haven't you been pushing me harder earlier?

[Errantparabola]

sorry for the profanity.
it was unwarranted.

[Errantparabola]

@EP. I like your reads for the most part.

more "consistency" from eagle

[Errantparabola]

Also add in that he.didn't try to take town cred and you ha r lurker scum who don't want the attention.

i'm sure you're self aware enough to understand that this sentence is textbook confbias.
taking something non-indicative and spinning it in such a way that makes it scum-indicative simply because of the possibility being there.

also, i'm pretty sure i didn't even hammer klingon.

[Errantparabola]

@errant what on earth? I've been saying I'm suspicious of you since the end of day one. And kept up with it. I've mentioned it at least once a day. Also put my vote on you. But I've been overrun by Titus and tso. I can quote the posts. Dont make this up.

this is the first i've heard about the D1 case, reasons-wise.
feel free to quote your D1 case coming up earlier and I'd be glad to retract my statement.

he called spiff town for no reason

i was responding to this, eagle.
and i'm pretty sure i expressed doubt on spiff's alignment before reaching my final conclusion.

[Errantparabola]

ZZZX, thoughts on lynching MOHIS today?

[Errantparabola]

more "consistency" from eagle

Since when is consistency a good thing? Thats what I am getting from this post.

Consistency usually indicates tunneling. I can consistently say Errant is scum! It really doesn't mean much.

Uh, oops.
That was me being sarcastic.
Also fire i know that you think that you thinking im town means im scum.
But what about jeanne's game? Did you scumread me there?

[Errantparabola]

I also oppose the eagle lynch.

[Errantparabola]

Oh shit. You were.
Also, go for it.
Also, where's vedith? Miss that guy.

[Errantparabola]

Whut? You? Why?

Why does that surprise you?
I find it interesting that it surprises you.

[Errantparabola]

Since a MOHIS lynch unfortunately seems to not be happening, I would be fine with VOTE: random

[Errantparabola]

Since a MOHIS lynch unfortunately seems to not be happening, I would be fine with VOTE: random

Explain?

I'll go in depth later because I am on my phone right now.
But your reactive play reminds me somewhat of Kling's.

[Errantparabola]

Jason, im voting random.

Fixed - Need caffeine

[Errantparabola]

I can see the hiding behind scum.
So lynchpool is random/ee, right?
If so, then my vote is on the right person right now.

TSO thoughts about how much aneninen's clotilde gambit excuses, play-wise?

[Errantparabola]

You cannot say for certain that she hid behind me or EE.

1. Again, I see you doing nothing to change your reactive play
2. of course you can't say for certain but there are things that are likelier (and although I don't really buy the ockham's razor argument I still agree with the general premise). so, yeah, not a good argument.

[Errantparabola]

actually scratch that tso's argument isn't bad.

[Errantparabola]

EE I still think youre town because of your d1 play. But that is in no way a case on tso.

[Errantparabola]

Ee do you agree that if sg hid, that the hiding target should be in the lynchpool?

[Errantparabola]

So really you see the whole argument that the lynch pool between me and random is shit. You just keep following that trail trying to guess who she actually hid behind.

understandable. would you consider lynching random considering that you acknowledge the possibility of the hide being there is real?
do you think random is scummy disregarding the whole hider business?

[Errantparabola]

How about the fact that you are positive that scum will win in two days?

jeanne is this you

One must wonder the same about you, and has asked you on multiple occasions. One wonders if TSO simply has a sad lack of self awareness.

don't you mean "a man"

pleases we need votes on random
elyse is right the timing of that tso vote was no good

[Errantparabola]

His aggressivenes is not an alignment tell.

Ok, thanks.

@mod I hate to say this, but I'm going to need to replace out

Whoa, dude seriously?
Just because someone is playing (from your point of view) antitown isn't grounds for replacing out. Just because TSO's aggressiveness isn't alignment indicative doesn't mean he's unreadable.
The lurkers are being just as antitown, if not more.
EE, you're a cool dude and I'd rather you stay in the game.
If not, then I suppose that's fine too.

[Errantparabola]

Not really, because you've done little to suggest you're town.

VOTE: MOHIS
back to this, then.

[Errantparabola]

Fuck off, TSO. I'm serious. I wouldn't have pushed so hard for your lynch today if I hadn't gotten to the point where I won't play with you anymore and I didn't want to replace out.

wait. so part of your decision to push TSO was because you didn't want to play with him anymore?

[Errantparabola]

EE was willing to consider Alchemist as town D2 when I raised the possibility of Alch being the D1 counterwagon. That's not mislynching logic.
EE's D1 play was pretty town in my opinion.
EE can you summarize your D3 opinion of Alchemist?

[Errantparabola]

I don't think Eagle would threaten us with replacing out as a kind of AtE if he were scum.
I'm absolutely not sold on TSO.
Randomidget evolved into a never-lynch.
If I vote for anyone else, they'll never get wagoned.

What now?

Who out of the anyone else would you be willing to lynch?

[Errantparabola]

aneninen, another, less game-related question: I was checking the newbie game queue and i could swear that you made a post that I remember you making in this game...
am i going crazy?

[Errantparabola]

I also went through MOHIS' iso. I'm feeling slightly less confident about him being scum. Let me reference my readslist again and come up with a better lynch candidate.
TSO I know you said that aneninen gets a lot of towncred for clotilde and so I'm going to believe you on that, despite me not particularly liking his posting.
Aneninen, get back to me as soon as you figure out a lynch pool, if you can.

And yes, TSO, I'm perfectly fine with staying away from an Eagle lynch today. However, I do agree that it gives us at least some useful information (as opposed to, say, lynching a lurker)

[Errantparabola]

I see no reason for Titus to give up on this game if she were scum. I'm becoming more confident with townreading titus
read Garmr's iso again, I am less confident in a townread there.
We shoot in ZZZX/PV today sounds good to me.
TSO, thoughts on Shiro?

pedit wow did you read my mind?
3364 is a small part of it. I just have a bit of a hard time wrapping my head around why scumEagle would do the things he did D1.

pedit 2 Actually, I would be fine with a lynch in Shiro/TWIE today.

[Errantparabola]

Still not following you on eagle.
VOTE: Shiro

[Errantparabola]

We shoot in ZZZX/PV today sounds good to me.

are you at least fine with this, TSO?

[Errantparabola]

I think PV's sheer nonchalance about being vigged was probably indicative of him being town as well. Peregrine has given me next to zero tells this game, so that's really the best read one can have on him.

I strongly disagree with your PV read.
Hey Titus. What do you think about a Shiro lynch?
Or are you just going to put EE to L-1 and then hopefully he'll claim something good and then we'll move off of him?

[Errantparabola]

Out of curiosity, why don't you want to claim?

[Errantparabola]

EE, no it is not possible. take a look at the theme game moderator signup

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? [No]

[Errantparabola]

I'm sorry, I'd just prefer not to answer this.

Got it. That makes me drastically less confident in my townread of you. Seriously.
I can't think of a reason that's protown why you'd hold back a claim.
I'll wait until I go to bed (which won't be for a long while) for some people to get their thoughts in, and then I might consider hammering, if someone else hasn't.

[Errantparabola]

Hammer now, please.

The fact that you aren't self hammering despite unnecessarily throwing out that you were tempted to is also making me consider the fact that this is just AtE
But I can't get over your D1 play and how town it was yo.

[Errantparabola]

Am I to wallow alone in my own paranoia until I go mad?

[Errantparabola]

Here's a Shakespearean sonnet that i wrote instead of hammering

Am I to live with my suspicion, mad?
The shadow of a doubt to fester, here?
Forgetting all the grand old times we've had,
For Eagle, my good pal, has disappeared.

Alas! This game keeps me awake at night
I toss and turn about my lynching scum.
The thought of Eagle's death makes eyes shine bright
I cry with searching eyes for a breadcrumb.

Oh why, my friend, do you refuse to claim?
I've never been less confident in reads,
This uphill battle- maelstrom of a game,
As town attempts to get rid of the weeds

Because my skills, a lot worse than the best,
Lack confidence to lay your head to rest.

pedit- okay wow a lot of things happened while i wrote that

[Errantparabola]

Ugh. I don't want to play "guess which lurker is scum" that's no fun.

Which is why we're leaving it up to the vig

[Errantparabola]

And if EE is town

[Errantparabola]

Twie come on to shiro with the cool kids then.

[Errantparabola]

I might be willing to lynch shiro. Not in my top three though.

Maybe. I really really rather ep Elyse or tso. Like a lot more.
Like almost uncompromising

Example of EE's priorities.
Look at how close to a lynch he is and he continues pushing his reads despite the fact that there are counterwagons that are a helluva lot more viable. I know they're different players, but contrast that with Kling's vote on alchemist.
EE is town.

[Errantparabola]

TSO

I am willing to sheep you in this, how certain are you ? like from 1-100

I dont think this is townpostin'

[Errantparabola]

shrug, TSO. I guess you might be right about Shiro. But, I think that your attitude towards EE and you refusing to move off of his wagon make it pretty clear that you're confident enough. Shiro asking that question might be genuine but it also smells of scum trying to set up for EE to roll town and trying to pull off a questioning act to put him in a better position D5. obv you won't agree with that since you think ee is scum.

[Errantparabola]

Errant - if I'm right and EE is scum, you're on sheep duty for the rest of the game. Agreed?

um, no. there's no incentive for me to make this deal.
if you are right i'll consider deferring to you on issues that i am unsure about.

[Errantparabola]

I hate being complicit in another mislynch, but stating intent then.

[Errantparabola]

Eagle, give me a disney role and I'll hammer ye

[Errantparabola]

K
Ok
Okay
VOTE: EE

Clearly there isnt much else to be said

[Errantparabola]

Not to muddy the waters but

claim even night vig

Sorry for the bad shots, from the little I read grapes and shiro felt like good targets...

VOTE: I am innocent
Claim: 2 shot vig that gains shots when I shoot scum
I was a proponent of grapes = scum
I voted Shiro as a counterwagon to EE

And if EE is town

This is me asking you who to shoot if EE was town because I was confident that's how it was goign to flip. You gave me no answer but you did say that Shiro was prob scum if EE was town and I agreed.

BTW, if you're scum, TSO, your game becomes infinitely better. So there's that.

[Errantparabola]

oh, and by the way, I'm vla until after tomorrow. I'll still be here because this seems like a pretty critical moment for me to be in this game.

[Errantparabola]

since random didn't die, we know that either random is scum or scum has a way of rendering random completely useless.
either way twie is dying tonight.

[Errantparabola]

How is there an SK? The nights I didnt kill there was one death.
Am i missing something?

[Errantparabola]

Sorry TSO. Not a lot goin on up here if you catch my drift

[Errantparabola]

Phoneposting, friends

Anen > elyse > tso > garmr > zzzx = pv

[Errantparabola]

I know this is me being clueless about the whole hider deal
But is there anything we can garner from that based on the flips we have?

[Errantparabola]

Lower = more willing to lynch.
I know there are lurkers at the bottom but the others in the lynchpool honestly dont look that scummy to me.
I might ISO elyse when i have time.
I think im unsure about her.

[Errantparabola]

Oh that's me

uh... intent?

[Errantparabola]

although I think I would rather ZZZX now that I think about it. Oh well

[Errantparabola]

hmgh

VOTE: peregrineV