You could be Anyone IV - GAME OVER

[Extrapolated Eagle]

E

XTRAPOLATED

E

AGLE

'

S

E

XTRAVAGANT

E

NTRANCE

"

It has been observed that most birds of prey look back over their shoulders before striking prey (or shortly thereafter); predation is after all a two-edged sword. All hawks seem to have this habit, from the smallest kestrel to the largest Ferruginous – but not the Eagles.

"

-Authors on birds David Allen Sibley, Pete Dunne, and Clay Sutton

Eagle lands atop his eyrie and begins to look down upon the game, observing with keen eye a target- his next prey.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Eagle turns his heavy head (for the heads of eagles are heavy for birds) to look at the spider that had seemed to make a web of sorts out of the parts of his nest. The eyrie was empty now, and perhaps would always remain such, but it was more a matter of honor for Eagle, than it was a plan for the future. He really should stop letting his desire for respect cloud his better senses. It had been causing him trouble lately.

Spider spoke.

Do you post fluff often Eagle?

"Fluff? I have not had fluff since I was a mere fledgling. It has not been long since then, I admit, and this is my first scratch on the real world, but I intend to leave my fluff with the days of being an eaglet."

Eagle gets a nostalgic look in his eye.

"Those were good days, I tell you."

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Excuse my role play. I'm excited.

And "role play" is a reference to my name, not to my character.

Vote Garmr

Ooo! Better idea!

Vote Natural Aristocracy

Old friends, or...?

Do you post fluff often Eagle?

No. Well, not typically after rvs. Once it's over I might have fluffy ways of saying things that are worth hearing, but content is kind of key.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Old friends, or...?

How am I ever going to explain this?
I wonder who she is.

Who's "she?"

Who is this person people are voting for?

----
In other news, the passionate storm has been notably absent from the start of the game.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Nice seeing you again Titus, Klingon, Vedith, Fire, Eagle, Spiffeh, Varsoon.

VOTE: eagle
why no vote?

Old friends, or...?

See: Secret Alt Mafia 2
I like you. Vote someone.

Meanwhile...

Unvote
Vote Errantevilmustache

----
In other news, the passionate storm has been notably absent from the start of the game.

Patience.

PEdit:
@spidergwen
I'm tempted to agree with you.

@varsoon

Not on the character list, either

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Eagle: It's a joke. I was saying hi to Varsoon.

The vote, or calling him town?

PEdit:
Yes. I just did my research. I'll assume this is Titus speaking. Where's your other head?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Probably asleep. I don't know. I am not her mother.

Not with that attitude you aren't.

What games fueled your research?

mostly wiki pages. I skimmed one or two, but rarely anything much more than reading any of the conclusions at the end of the game. But yeah. Mostly just wiki pages for those who had them in depth.

PEdit: hey man, I'm multitasking and on my phone. Gimme a break here.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I don't like the thread right now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Why did you use my wiki? Most players prefer recent games.

You should know I don't give breaks. The truth is what matters.

Because after reading that and your current ongoing, I had more than enough.

Good. Have you seen what you expected/hoped for, so far?

PEdit: because I haven't seen what I was expecting to see yet, and that means I've either miscalculated, or this game might be harder than it should.

I'll give it a little longer

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I am never what people expect.

Why wouldn't you use my finished games. Unless this is a total coincidence, your entire ISO seems designed to provoke.

I beg to differ. It's not you that is throwing me off.

Oh. Darn. Maybe that's it. You think it was too strong?Perhaps I should wait a little longer, I'm sure it will happen.

Unless I'm right.

Patience. I know, it's frustrating me, too. But you'll like me again soon enough. Unless I'm wrong.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

It's early enough, I can give you time and Jeanne wants to pursue AJ for awhile, but I got my eye on you.

Since when is provocation early in the game a scummy thing to do?

I'll be careful. Eagles don't fly well in storms.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

The Eagle turns his head to see a tiny bird, calling his name.

"What is your question, little one?"

I don't like the thread right now.

Why?

That is a silly question to ask, little bird, when it has already been answered. But it is ok. I shall share it again.

PEdit: because I haven't seen what I was expecting to see yet, and that means I've either miscalculated, or this game might be harder than it should.

I'll give it a little longer

Pigeon spoke again.

Since when is provocation early in the game a scummy thing to do?

Too many posts.

There is a saying among birds.
"It is silly for the ostrich to make fun of the penguin for not being able to fly"

Spoiler: Ostrich speaks

post.

Answer.

I don't like the thread right now.

Why?

VOTE: Spider Gwen

That doesn't look like RVS. Why?

Pigeon poop.

VOTE: PeregrineV.
This is not a serious vote.
I propose we--aw, who am I kidding.

Intuition says she's scum.

I'm confused. Therefore sheep firebringer
VOTE: shiro

Was that an inside joke?

It doesn't look like RVS to me....not really much to explain there.
~Titus

It should be explained.

It's early enough, I can give you time and Jeanne wants to pursue AJ for awhile, but I got my eye on you.

Since when is provocation early in the game a scummy thing to do?
I'll be careful. Eagles don't fly well in storms.

Too many posts.
But don't worry, pigeons do.

Pigeon peeped one last time.

I'll be careful. Eagles don't fly well in storms.

But don't worry, pigeons do.

Perhaps. Hopefully, we will not need to find out. But this is a good thing to keep in mind, friend. This is a good reason why I may need you yet.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Since when is provocation early in the game a scummy thing to do?

I assume your philosophy is "provoking people in RVS is good because it gets us out of RVS and it also gets information."

Then why are you intentionally withholding a vote?

I'm waiting. It will come. Patience. Which is more provocative, a vote, or none? Based on your reaction, I must say that the latter seems more true.

PEdit: Egg puns are funny since we're both birds. But who is he buddying?

PEdit 2: Joanne pls post which head is posting inside the hydra. It makes reading people easier.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm waiting. It will come. Patience. Which is more provocative, a vote, or none? Based on your reaction, I must say that the latter seems more true.

This is you trying to imply that you're purposely not voting in order to gauge reactions by people noting that you're not voting. I don't buy that.

You, my friend, are quite silly. I have gotten more questions and posts about my lack of vote than anyone else has gotten about their vote. The facts are on my side.

But since you seem so insistent that my intentional lack of vote is so suspicious because it creates no reads, perhaps you would like to explain why every post of yours is focused on my lack of vote and not any of the other interesting, provocative votes that have been flying around?

Do, please, explain, why none of your posts have been about anything but my lack of vote with the small exception of that comment at the end of your last post.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Eagle-

1) For clarification, are you actively claiming to be purposely withholding a vote in order to gauge reactions from people that notice it?
2) In response to your question, I post what I think I can bring to the table. If something has already been said, no need to say it again.

1. Yes.
2. Perhaps. But theory is not necessarily a wonderful thing to bring to the table, especially in RVS. At least, not in my opinion, but that is theory, so I'll stop there.

But now it's time for this:

VOTE: errantparabola

I didn't like the tunneling. But I especially didn't like the way he backed off at the end.

@Passionate Storm: who is green? Who is grey?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think we'll keep that quiet. One of us at least would like to post anonymously without meta baggage at some point.

I don't get the errant vote.

~Titus

Makes sense.

It's a weak read. But he kept asking silly questions on the lack of vote while implying that a vote gets more reactions, even after my lack of vote has gotten far more responses from multiple people and I think the responses are more genuine because I believe the intentional lack of vote is not expected. So blatantly ignoring facts to pursue a read and tunnel through certain other interesting things going on around him such as the aneninen accusation or the Gwen response, or even you, which he eventually pursued but backed off to state something reasonable and kind of defend you in a strange way. On top of this, he backs off slightly to clarify, and then responds unreasonably when I call him out on it. In my experience, town is far more unreasonable than scum- they're lives are slightly more expendable and they have less to work with, so they in a way have to be somewhat unreasonable to force frantic scum to try to reason with them or get in an argument with another town, and thus gain a read.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think we'll keep that quiet. One of us at least would like to post anonymously without meta baggage at some point.

I don't get the errant vote.

~Titus

Makes sense.

It's a weak read. But he kept asking silly questions on the lack of vote while implying that a vote gets more reactions, even after my lack of vote has gotten far more responses from multiple people and I think the responses are more genuine because I believe the intentional lack of vote is not expected. So blatantly ignoring facts to pursue a read and tunnel through certain other interesting things going on around him such as the aneninen accusation or the Gwen response, or even you, which he eventually pursued but backed off to state something reasonable and kind of defend you in a strange way. On top of this, he backs off slightly to clarify, and then responds unreasonably when I call him out on it. In my experience, town is far more unreasonable than scum- they're lives are slightly more expendable and they have less to work with, so they in a way have to be somewhat unreasonable to force frantic scum to try to reason with them or get in an argument with another town, and thus gain a read.

I'd like to add to this and state that I believe there IS another type of town that would prefer to sit back and watch, I.e. myself, as well as other players in this game, I believe, but even these players can be forced to scrambling in the dirt with everyone else should no one else create enough content.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm getting to everything, but I have to finish eating dinner first. I promise answer s to everyone's questions

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright. First miss Gwen. I think she's likely right, although her reasoning is a bit suspect, I have an ever slight town read on her:

1. She begged for attention, very provocatively, I might add. Similar to my provocative posting. This reads slight town to me.

2. You and everyone else who responded to my intentionally provocative posting were bait. In a way. I initially was very vague and weird with the hope of grabbing the attention of people. (You and errant) the goal was to get people to vote me. Which you both did (obligingly).

2.5 "How were we bait?" At this point, I believe that if I was a scum and I saw town voting provocative town, I would respond by voting the voting group for some easy white knight points. But no one voted you guys. Either of you. Which makes me think that you were actually scum taking advantage of easy town. So slightly scum read on you.

3. "But eagle, Gwen voted for us." Yes, she did. But instead of hiding behind an rvs vote or a silly reason, she voted for you after you unvoted me for the silly reason that you wanted to rvs someone. Which is nowhere near the same.

4. "But Gwen is not listening to us." Maybe. I don't know if she's saying what she means or miscommunicating or not. I do know that you were cautious, Titus, and green has posted barely anything. Meta for green: she's very emotional when she's town. But she's reserved. And Titus isn't reserved, Titus is hunting. And backing off. And describing her towniness. Now it could be that it's totally different in your personal discussion. Which is why this is only a very very slight scum read directed at you. But I agree with Gwen. Also no one came to vote you when I expected them to if you were town

You generally don't pursue reads after they've been proven false.

~Titus

Agreed. Or rather, you shouldn't. But that's not the reasoning you gave earlier.

So in conclusion, I agree with Gwen. I have an ever so slight scum read on you guys. I'll get to parabola in just a moment.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@parabola

No. You are being silly again. Please, fget out of that pile of cowpies you've built the foundation of your argument on. Go back, fact check, clarify what you're going to say, and then come back and talk to me.

---

My read on ep simplified:
1. Ep saw someone not voting
2. Ep took the bait and voted easy way
Clarifying: nothing up to here is scummy or towny. Just falling for bait.
3. Ep reacts aggressively, using argument that not voting doesn't get people to react aggressively
4. I watch and wait
5. Ep continues aggression
6. I tell Ep he is being silly and start to give up on anyone voting for bait
7. Ep backs off a little to explain himself and realizes his argument is self-contradictory
This is kind of scummy because usually town pursue reads excessively beyond a shadow of a doubt, imo. But backing off is ok. He could be reasonable type
8. Ep responds to being called out for backing off by attacking again
This is definitely scummy for obv reasons
9. Ep makes a bs argument to pursue in order to try to look like town again and maybe distract me from other things because I'm busy responding to him.

Other reasons I'm scum reading him:
1. Tunnels me and ignores Gwen - kinda scummy but not super
2. No one votes for him as bait. Also very slight

You might disagree with green, but green knows what green is doing. So does grey, and when green and grey combine, a force like no other is made.

... Grayish-green?

Also, would you mind explaining what green is doing?

Green thinks she's trying to frame town.

That's called OMGUS

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright this is the part of dps argument that I haven't responded too already/isn't crap

to clarify my response to 101:
I don't think that you sitting back and watching is alignment indicative.
However, I don't like that you felt the need to say that unprovoked.

I think he was sufficiently provoked.

I see how Eagle would come to the conclusion that I think him not voting is scummy. But I don't think that. I just don't believe that Eagle made the conscious decision to not vote in hopes that someone with an RVS voting philosophy like me would come along and question him on it.

Yes I can. You know how? Because I've played multiple games before on another site. And almost every game when someone doesn't vote, someone else responds by asking why not. It also happened the last time this game was run. Inte said "first" and then was asked why he didn't vote. So that's actually part of what this plan was based on. But that wasn't the big part of the plan.

One more thing before I go.

I find it hard to consolidate the attitude of "prefer to sit back and watch" with the action of "purposely do something in hopes that it will provoke someone"

When you like to sit back, MORE, not less, of what you do is intentional, in my opinion. You have to do something with that time you have to think. Doing things intentionally is how you clarify your reads. If you're down in the middle of everything all the time it's hard to take time apart to think (for me) to make a plan to get reads intentionally.

I don't like the thread right now.

The only thing I didn't like up to that point was your irritating roleplay. What were you talking about here?

Keep reading, friend.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright this is the part of dps argument that I haven't responded too already/isn't crap/

isn't you just saying you "refuse to buy" something

Ebwop

It also happened the last time this game was run. Inte said "first" and then was asked why he didn't vote. So that's actually part of what this plan was based on. But that wasn't the big part of the plan.

Link in case you don't believe me: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6678832

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I don't like the thread right now.

The only thing I didn't like up to that point was your irritating roleplay. What were you talking about here?

Keep reading, friend.

I don't understand why I would "keep reading" when whatever you didn't like was before post 34.

So, now that your deflection has failed - what didn't you like about the thread at that point?

I get the feeling I'm going to be quoting myself all game.

Here's both of the times I've explained myself.

PEdit: because I haven't seen what I was expecting to see yet, and that means I've either miscalculated, or this game might be harder than it should.

I don't like the thread right now.

Why?

That is a silly question to ask, little bird, when it has already been answered. But it is ok. I shall share it again.

PEdit: because I haven't seen what I was expecting to see yet, and that means I've either miscalculated, or this game might be harder than it should.

I'll give it a little longer

And if you want an explanation for those, you're going to have to read the rest of the thread instead of skimming and bs-ing your way through

I haven't played Mafia in about two months. While it's lovely to be back, I really don't feel like having to repeat myself.

Really?!? Me neither!

I sort-of want to call TSO sour for how his posts come off as being unproductive, however, that is probably this old lady being senile.

You aren't. He's being unproductive.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

6 pages already. After a quick glance I'm going to say

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

I don't really trust the bird. He seems to want to get involved in everything. He also didn't really provide a good reasoning for voting epola and never does. I would think a town player would try and push his first suspect to reveal more information instead his sitting back defending himself and I think trying to justify his vote by defending himself.

His other content is meh.

And I would think a town member would read before voting. Instead of skimming.

Quick question, what does "never does" mean?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm starting to regret signing up for this one. Honestly if you're just going to skim, Imo, you don't have time to play the game.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

2) What does "voted easy way" mean? To me, that doesn't sound like something town would do. And yet, you say that it isn't scummy or towny.
7) This logic is incredibly shady. Town pursues reads excessively beyond a shadow of a doubt? Are you kidding? Where the hell did you pull that from?
8) And you still haven't explain where the hell I've "backed off." Try and explain that to me before basing an argument off of it.
9) I'm glad that you think that you can just write off an argument as BS without proving it and expect me to believe it.

As for the other reasons.
1) You know, it could be possible that I don't actually think that the Gwen v PS thing is alignment indicative. But of course, since I don't agree with you, I must be scum.
2) No one is voting for me. Must be scum. Hmm.

Oh, and by the way, what happened to the whole "theory" attack? Still think that I'm scum for that?

2. It means voting for something provocative. And scum might do it as an easy place to put a vote: being less than fun to be around is a good way to get votes from either alignment, imo.
7. I have seen it multiple times and I would be surprised to hear you hadn't: town hardcore attacks and hounds a read beyond the point of them becoming pretty apparently town to everyone else. That's what I meant. Yes, I admit, my stuff can be better worded at times, and I apologize for that
8.

Eagle-

1) For clarification, are you actively claiming to be purposely withholding a vote in order to gauge reactions from people that notice it?
2) In response to your question, I post what I think I can bring to the table. If something has already been said, no need to say it again.

The above post is nowhere near as offensively worded or frustrating to try and understand or respond to as your other posts. This is "backing off" in a way, because I read it as you being understandable, nice, and helpful. Something scum might do after they've been scum read in an attempt to buddy and be town read. It is a weak tell, yes, but it's there, and my read on you is not strong.
9. I called your argument bs because fmpov you kept saying "not voting isn't as good as voting you must be scum" when my not voting got better reactions. I reread the other post where you said it was because of you don't believe me which isn't exactly flattering, but it's not bs. So you're right here.
1 (again). Not strong. But you did ignore that.
2 (again). again. Not strong. But it's what I expected.


In hindsight, I have to say, though, this gambit failed me. Perhaps I didn't use it correctly or there's more to gain from it after I take a step back, but right now I'm pretty disappointed with the results. :/

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm starting to regret signing up for this one. Honestly if you're just going to skim, Imo, you don't have time to play the game.

Well fuck you to.

Let me put it this way. If you don't have time to read my posts and attempt to understand them, then why would your posts be informed enough for them to be worth my time to read and respond to fully? The only people who can fully play to their wincon and not really read the thread/skim it are scum, because they already have everything figured out.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

From this page alone EP is town.
Way more willing to engage than in a previous game I've played with him where he was scum.

~Spiffy

Perhaps wasn't a failure after all. But I think it was definitely worth a shot.

UNVOTE:

I need sleep now, however. And then to sit and watch for a time.

PEdit: ... Ok. 1st question: do you, or do you not, skim the posts?
2nd: some people I have run into over the years have this strange obsession with logic and the invalidation of such. They think people act logically. Some even think that invalidating someone's logic is alignment indicative. I can assure you that from my experience, this is rarely the case.
3rd. Might I say that for someone who is scum reading me for responding to other people's accusations about my gambit and other posts, it seems strange that you get frustrated when I'm not excited to respond to your accusations about such things? Who's "logic" is strange now?
4th. I gave reasons for my scum reads. If you did not read them, that is your problem, not mine. You can just continue doing what you're doing and I'll just ignore you. I will vote for and call scum who ever I think is scummy or whoever I think calling scum might get me a better read on someone else regardless of whether or not someone else is voting for me.

I play games with other people's votes on me. It's what I do. Sometimes it's intentional because it helps me get my reads. Other times it's because I tried a gambit. And still others times I have really crappy play. If I only voted for people who weren't voting for me, in my past experience, my options would be severely limited.

Thank you. I'm tired. I need time to look, read, and think.

PEdit: oh crap. Everyone is here again. Looks like I won't get to sleep now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Heyyyyy. I'm happy to finally be in a game without RC!!

In other news, the passionate storm has been notably absent from the start of the game.

Why would you expect them to be here for gamestart?

presence in other threads.

@Eagle: It's a joke. I was saying hi to Varsoon.

The vote, or calling him town?

PEdit:
Yes. I just did my research. I'll assume this is Titus speaking. Where's your other head?

Hmmm. Not sure if I believe you're a newb. But that's irrelevant to alignment anyway. I see you've been in two games already, why are you excited about your roleplay only now?

I hate hydras.

This is the first one I've started from scratch. And me too.

OK Eagle, I see the post you think errant is backing off in now...I disagree.

Now you think the gambit failed...so what's your read on errant?

I don't know. That's why it's a failure. Give me time to think and sleep and I'll get back to you on it. If I can get a solid read on anyone from it, it's not a failure, though.

Town: EP, Elyse, AJ, Garmr
Weak town: TSO
Gun to head scum: Eagle
Weak scum: Spider, Anen, Klingon

I'm just going to put this out there: (I haven't had a chance to reread the thread yet) but at this moment in time I disagree with a majority of your reads. We'll have to discuss this in detail tomorrow.

Yes, I'd like to sit back and observe. But we don't always get what we want, do we? And I like starting things off.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@EE, The thread had been open for all of 20 minutes at the time. :/

Time moves REALLY slowly when you're nervous.

I also would like you to state which reads, specifically you disagree with.

[quote="In post 154, Passionate Storm"
Town: Elyse, Garmr
Weak town: TSO
Weak scum: Spider[/quote]
These ones. (Took my name off the list for relatively obvious reasons).

I'm tired. I'm going to sleep now. I'll reread and talk more in the morning.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

E

XTRAPOLATED

E

AGLE

'

S

E

XCELLENT

R

EADS

"

When a storm is coming, all other birds seek shelter. The eagle alone avoids the storm by flying above it.

"

-Unknown

Eagle wakes and leaves his nest, soaring the skies as he often liked to do as if to say to the sun, "I can get higher than you." It wasn't true of, course but aime days Eagle just felt the need to fly above

something

, anything.

Eagle's afterthought: pigeon, it appears I was wrong what I said about eagles and storms yesterday, but it made for good flavor. I honestly didn't find out until I was looking for eagle quotes this morning

EAGLE looked out over the world and saw all- the creatures calling his name, and those that did not. Many had questions for the eagle, for he had done something that had scared and confused them.

"Peace, friends. All will be answered now. I am here. I have had time to think and sleep. But you must wait until the end of this post for answers to questions, first I shall tell you what I think of you so you may all go back to gossipin.
"There is an intruder in my forest," the eagle continued, "in your forest. In our forest. You have discovered this already. I suspected it. Which is why I did what I did. Was it the best course of action? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It was the first time I had tried such a thing. I think, for now, it was helpful. I shall come back and look at it better when this whole predicament is over, and I know who the intruders are, and how they reacted.
"And it will be over. You can rest assured that we will find and kill the intruders. So for now, I share my thoughts on who they are."

First,

Varsoon, the Knight

Spoiler:

The Eagle looked at the man, burly, yet quivering in his once fine suit of armor.
"I cannot tell about you, yet sir, whether that quiver is really or fake. How the spider knew you were going to come before you came, I know not. Perhaps she knows you from elsewhere, her eggsac

was

in a castle. I enjoy how humbly you came into our forest, how respectful you were. How you seemed to try to stir things up the moment you heard there were intruders. And your frustration when it seemed to come to nothing. But it was early in the day, perhaps a bit too early. But for now, friend, I think you belong here.

null/

town

But when you get a chance, dear sir, could you share your thoughts on the others here? You likely know them better then I.

Next,

SpiderGwen, the Spider

Spoiler:

"Either you or the clouds in the distance do not belong here. You did do exactly what I expected the intruder to do, but not when I expected them to do it. You grew your nest after the clouds had changed direction, but perhaps that does not matter? You do seem to stay close to me, which I greatly appreciate, so for now I shan't tear down your web. For as my mother told me,

"You should never turn against your friends in times of trouble, unless you are certain they mean you malice. For if you have no friends in times of trouble, you have no friends at all."

"You are kind of crazy, and maybe a little stubborn, but you're strong, and I like you. You certainly didn't seem to expect the clouds, and you attacked them when it appeared they were intruders here. You seem to have locked your targets and even your friendliness towards me seems to be something an intruder would not do, for you have put yourself on a limb for me, and I am grateful for that. There is not much time that has passed since we have been invaded, but you seem to be on our side.

slight town

But be warned, my lady, for if the storm belongs, then you do not.

Passionate Storm, the Storm

Spoiler:

"I see you, maiden of destruction, brewing in the West. How fickle and careless you seem. You lock onto what you say doesn't belong, but change it for something you don't care about. You thunder about me and why I am dangerous, yet, if I understand you correctly, I am not even your most suspicious of creatures, yet little is said about them. How little you care about who lives and dies, yet how controlled your stormy side is. You seem to be putting on a show, and I fear how the show ends.

slight scum

You and the spider do not belong together. Nor do you and the notebook.

Eagle's sidenote: I honestly wasn't thinking of your hydra, and I only read enough of your wiki to get a feel for you. When you noted that it was your hydra name, it rung a bell and I figured I would go along with it, but I didn't actually go that in depth, too many people. I also have no idea what insuyasha is.

ErrantParabola, the Scholar's Notebook

Spoiler:

"You are an interesting fellow, sir. Your pages seem to be filled with the frustrated scribblings of one who believed himself misunderstood. Which makes me think perhaps you do not mean malice on the forest. Perhaps I am wrong, but perhaps not. How you handled the end of our conversation yesterday seems interesting, going from a town to null read could be anything from an intruder trying to see how accusatory he can be towards others to a resident being careful who he calls friend. I am wary of you, Mr Book. But for now,

slight town

I do not like how the rain from the storm seems to fondle rather than ruin your pages, however, perhaps you can share what you think of this matter?

Aneninen, the Pigeon

Spoiler:

"Of you, my fellow feathered creature, I find myself quite fond. You seem a bit confused as to why we are being invaded, and this makes me think you aren't an invader. Those who I think to have intruded seem to dislike and accuse you, and this adds up to me thinking that us birds of a feather should fly together. I have enjoyed our conversations up until this point and I see not why we should not cease this.

slight town

You speak quite vaguely, though, could you explain who this Chlotilde is?

Elyse, the Girl

Spoiler:

"I believe, dear girl, that you do not belong here. You did EXACTLY what I expected from scum and stated so. That I would attract attention provocatively, someone would jump on me for it, and then a scum, seeing me, knowing I'm town, would vote for the one who voted for me. You spent an entire case building a case on me, cool, calm, collected, not caught up in all the confusion, and then instead of voting for me, you voted for the one voting for me. With no case built at all against the poor bear. On top of this, you attack my friend the Pigeon.

slight scum

VOTE: Elyse

Garmr, the Bear

Spoiler:

"Yes, I know you try to appear as a wolf, but you behave like a dreary mother bear, coming out of hibernation to find her cub missing. So for now, you are the bear. I am not quite sure what to make of you. You either believe words to mean things that they don't, or you make up new meanings for words. The case you have built against me is, in parts, legitimate. But most of those parts were intentional. Other parts of your case might have been legitimately what you see, but are not true. For example this:

. After a quick glance

A skim means a quick readin this case I skimmed every post................

I did read your posts Like i said I read every post and these are my first thoughts off my head aka a skim.

"A quick glance" and "skimming" are the same thing. Neither of them mean reading fully, which is what you seem to say they mean in the last post. Yes, I believe this argument is relevant, unless English is not your first language, and in that case, the argument is a bit ridiculous, and I will drop it immediately. You seem to tunnel me pretty hard and be proud of it, though, and I think that perhaps you misread/misunderstood/didn't believe in my gambit, all of which would make sense coming from a town player, fmpov.

So

slight town

But I can assure you I have done nothing against your cub. So please start trying to pull down someone else's tree, I don't want to have to move my nest again.

grapes, the Grapes

Spoiler:

"I like you. Many creatures say you are tasty, but, no offense, I prefer to eat creatures. But you seem to have very similar reads to mine and you seem to be quite intelligent, for a fruit. You don't seem turned by the chaos of the other animals, and you don't seem to be aware of what is going on, though you look to be figuring it out"

slight town

I particularly like this post:

i wonder if 5-6 people scumreading klingon for making a bold fos means anything

It's interesting, is it not? I think maybe it does mean something. Though I town read the people on that wagon right now.
I am curious to hear about your vote for spifflop, though.

... Wow there are a lot of people. I need a break from this, so I'm going to leave you with this and come back in a bit. (Hopefully before lunch, maybe not until after work).

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@mod: I checked to make sure my shades of purple were discernable from yours, but if you don't want me using any purple, I'll change it next time

[Extrapolated Eagle]

As soon as you explain how thats not just a giant waste of time, sure.

Who dis

@EE

huh?

Aside from that entire post being annoying as fuck, your scumread on me makes no sense. My vote on Garmr was justified completely

How so? Please quote where.

and my "case" on you was a mish mash of observations and questions I had.

I see. So I wasn't scum in your eyes, yet, but you had lots to say, But on your scum read you're speechless?

I didn't build an argument against you piece by piece like you said. I think you're trying to say that I'm white knighting you, which isn't the case since I'm not townreading you. Your analysis is very superficial and doesn't look at motivations behind actions.

I don't know, white knighting is very much motivation. Also for someone who's really upset about a "superficial" read, voting aneninen for his "tone" is quite interesting.

I also disagree with, like, all of your reads except errant.

And suddenly I feel paranoid about voting Anen

You should. That would also make two reads you agree with me on. Quick question, if I'm scum, why do you find yourself agreeing with me more and more?

Mobilpost.

Not to brag or anything, but all of my posts have been mobile. Yeah. That last post was a craps ton of work.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

As soon as you explain how thats not just a giant waste of time, sure.

Who dis

@EE

Aside from that entire post being annoying as fuck, your scumread on me makes no sense. My vote on Garmr was justified completely and my "case" on you was a mish mash of observations and questions I had. I didn't build an argument against you piece by piece like you said. I think you're trying to say that I'm white knighting you, which isn't the case since I'm not townreading you. Your analysis is very superficial and doesn't look at motivations behind actions.

I also disagree with, like, all of your reads except errant.

First you vote for me in the sign-up thread and now here...

I bet you remember NeuroScience... you were so cute when I was after you and you were flailing all the time. What a pity that I dropped the case and lost the game to you later. Nevertheless, I want to see that again.

wish granted?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

[

Since it's 3 am will elaborate on a few things. English is my first language but
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/skim
a.

To read or glance through (a book, for example) quickly

or superficially.
I'm using it as in the term quickly I looked through it quickly your pushing as I looked through superficially. Is there really even a point in arguing this because even after a a reread i still like my points which I noticed straight away. They still stand. It's scummy to to try and devalue ones case by something other than the case its self.

Fine. I take it you're saying you read the thread through and still like your points? Then I'll respond to them.

I don't understand how you came about this 360 when a couple of posts ago you were saying this

This is what I mean when I say you don't read.

I'm just going to put this out there: (I haven't had a chance to reread the thread yet) but at this moment in time I disagree with a majority of your reads. We'll have to discuss this in detail tomorrow.

Yes, I'd like to sit back and observe. But we don't always get what we want, do we? And I like starting things off.

I was tired and these were gut reaction reads. They were quick and I hadn't had time to take a step back from the thread. That's when my reads are best.

6 pages already. After a quick glance I'm going to say

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

I don't really trust the bird. He seems to want to get involved in everything. He also didn't really provide a good reasoning for voting epola and never does.

Reasoning you disagree with is not necessarily bad reasoning

I would think a town player would try and push his first suspect to reveal more information instead his sitting back defending himself and I think trying to justify his vote by defending himself.

.. so you would prefer I don't try to justify my vote and ignore the numerous accusations against me? I don't have an infinite amount of time. Also, as I have said multiple times (though not necessarily before this post) this was a gambit and I need time to go back and think about the results before I push further. It would be stupid to tunnel him before backing off and checking on everyone else and making sure I'm going the right way with it. In my experience gambits can go horribly wrong and "scum reads" can be for the wrong reasons and end up being town.

His other content is meh.

Quote which content, pls.

Scum want to be involved in everything so they look like they are doing something tell me what has eagle actually contributed to hunting scum. His vote epola was bullshit yet his been involved with all these other events I would think a townie who was involved in everything would push more on a scum read showing eagerness. This seems like scum eagerness to look town.

Actually, if I was scum, I would AVOID putting my neck on the line to get some reads at game start. It just doesn't seem smart to start the game attracting a whole lot of attention that I really don't like when I play scum.

4.I read your singular reason for the scum read

This actually sounds like quite a few reasons to me. Perhaps you miscounted here?

I don't think it's any good. Post 100 right is the full explanation of your read. So you scum read him in short for tunneling you and not having much attention to whats around him until he finished tunneling you and started paying attention to them right thus not giving you as much attention even through his votes on you. Kinda sounds like a bs reason to me and a delayed omgus so people wouldn't mention that. Now you unvote when he unvotes you and you are being pushed by someone else.......

You don't have to like my reasoning. That's your problem. But I do have to say it's pretty early in the day, and I have to say I don't like your reasoning for voting me either. .

-- @ Passionate storm

Ok I'll see when I can get to it. But between work, eating, responding to garmr, and trying to stay on top of elyse I'm kind of short on time at the moment

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Extrapolated Eagle, I like the effort your putting into this, but I can gurantee you will get burned out pretty quickly at this if you try to keep that amount for whole game. The game speed for this is much different than a blitz. Its more casual game.

I like you man, don't get burned out.

-Fire

Yeah, I'm starting to realize this. Makes me kind of sad, because I like it and it helps me keep my emotions in check so I can properly read people, because when you're spending that much time working on posts, you're less likely to get angry at people for making you repeat yourself or not properly reading and stuff. At least in my case.

But you're right I don't have the energy to keep this up much longer. I'll just have to take pretty regular breaks

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Elyse I really look forward to you responding to me. I'm excited to see what all this not being here at all will warrant and the great in depth reads that look at the motivations behind the players that you post.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You've already proven you can think ahead. What's to say that you didn't put your neck on the line just so that you can use this defense later?
I personally don't believe it, just want to hear your response.

Far too risky. I'm a horrible actor. I did try to gambit once as scum and I don't think I've ever been lynched faster, with the exception of my first couple mafia games - I was annoying as crap (still kinda am, I guess) and stupid and thought that everyone that voted me must be scum.
When I gambit as I have a hard time figuring out how to read people without cutting my options down too much. I haven't played scum much before.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Aside from that entire post being annoying as fuck, your scumread on me makes no sense. My vote on Garmr was justified completely

How so? Please quote where.

Here:

I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood. I was talking about BEFORE you voted him.

No, you are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting me. You said that I built a case on you piece by piece and then just voted for Garmr at the end without justifying it. What I'm saying is that any "case" you think I built was simply my catchup post regarding your actions. Yes, I scumread you, but you weren't at the top of my list.

So let me get this straight, you were scum reading me, but later you weren't willing to vote me, and you were scum reading me without a case against me?
And apart from this your vote on garmr with no explanation or observations at the time was just something I should ignore?

White knighting is townreading someone under pressure as scum to look better when they flip. Do you think I'm doing that to you?

Umm, you're the one that said it. I don't like how you seem to be trying to put words in my mouth and then trying to use them against me.

I also like how you don't deny your reads are superficial and instead try to attack me. I've already explained that Anen's post lack the intention of finding scum. They are a cluster of meaningless observations and questions with no follow-up. In other words, I am looking at the motivations of his posts.

How is this looking for motivation? Explain the scum motivation behind his posts, pretty please.

Feeling paranoid about voting someone does not mean I suddenly townread them, thank you very much. Whenever a lurker comes out of nowhere and joins a wagon I'm on with shit reasoning, it makes me think that maybe the wagon is on town and a scum lurker is taking advantage.

so it doesn't make you town read them, but it makes you think about it. But you are moving in the direction of agreeing with more of my reads.

I also won't answer that scummy bs loaded question.

because? Explain how it's scummy bs pls

Fuck off.
VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Idgaf if people call this OMGUS but his entire response to me reeked of cocky scum. The constant misreps, deflections, and false accusations ping hard and don't match up with his previous play.

Quote misrepresenting and reflections and false accusations pls.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Also being cocky != being scum my. Why would it? Town people are cocky when they think they've caught scum. Pls explain scum motivation behind being cocky.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So, ladies and gentlemen of the forest, why is Elyse so angry? Why is she so frustrated? Well, to put it in her words it's because:

Excuse me but my win rate is very good as scum.

She's frustrated she was not expecting to get caught after falling for such a silly gambit. She's already set herself up in a difficult spot after budduing one of her scum buddies, and she knows that if she gets caught here it's going to be bad juju for mafia. Vote Elyse. Let's lynch scum

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Well I've gotta get going to work now. I'll respond to that later. Bye!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Ok I'm going to respond to everything else in just a minute but this was particularly drawing my attention so I feel like I should be cleared up:

I've gone over that post over and over, and that just does not fit. It's the "before" that's throwing me off. It tells me that he's scum now, not in a past game. I mean, I wish I'm wrong here. I'm hoping that Eagle is able to clear this up and I just looked at it cross-eyed somewhere, because I really don't trust the whole slip notion in the first place. But I just can't wrap my head around how that could be anything else.

He is saying that because he lacks the experience as scum what EP is suggesting as a gambit is not a thing he would do. At least that is how I read it

This. This is what was going on. I'm not scum. Before was inclusive, but shiro nailed why I said what I did.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

1. Well the first quote was before I voted him and the second was in reference to things that happened before I voted him so I don't know what your problem is.

my bad, you're right here. Sorry.

2. I was scumreading you but you weren't my top scumread, yes. I never said you should ignore a vote without justification, but I did justify mine.

see response to #1

3. I said white knighting because I thought that's what you were referencing. Otherwise I have no idea what you were trying to say.

you don't have to. You're acum

4. Seriously...? I just said that his observations don't lead anywhere and he doesn't follow up his questions. He's not motivated to find scum.

oh. Kinda like you're asking questions and interrogating me right now? Because you aren't. You're just defensive. Or like you're aggressively questioning Gwen?

6. This was your question:
"Quick question, if I'm scum, why do you find yourself agreeing with me more and more?"
This is A) loaded B) scummy because it serves no purpose C) bullshit because I'm not agreeing with you

Oh, so you're NOT starting to think that maybe aneninen is town because a stranger came in and voted him for no reason?

7. You misrepped me when you said I built up a case on you and voted someone without justification

scuse me but you and I have very different definitions of building a a case

.
You deflected my point about your reads being superficial by accusing me of the same thing even when I proved you wrong.

that's not deflecting. That's ignoring a stupid accusations. And how on earth did you prove me wrong?

You falsely accused me of "not being here at all" and townreading Aneninen.

again, so you didn't start to think that maybe aneninen might be town because a stranger came in and voted him for no reason? Or you got nervous that your vote might be scum? I'm not seeing it here

I'm not frustrated. I am angry because you're annoying as fuck to deal with though.

Are you implying you should just sit around and make small talk with your scum reads, like you chatted Gwen up about where you thought she was acting scum my?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I particularly like this post:

i wonder if 5-6 people scumreading klingon for making a bold fos means anything

Why do you like it? I find it to be scummy.

I liked it because it stood out. I didn't see scum sticking their neck put for something like that. I mean, I see how it could be scum my, but I liked it because it kind of defended Klingon to get him to talk more, And because it begged people to think about things without distracting too much from what was already going on. And now I like it because even though no one responded in the way I think he thought they would, it created a wagon. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to get reads out of that wagon.

In short, it created content. Thoughtful content, in a way.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Spoiler:

In hindsight, I have to say, though, this gambit failed me. Perhaps I didn't use it correctly or there's more to gain from it after I take a step back, but right now I'm pretty disappointed with the results. :/

He fricken said it was a gambit, how was it not a gambit???

Ok I'm going to respond to everything else in just a minute but this was particularly drawing my attention so I feel like I should be cleared up:

I've gone over that post over and over, and that just does not fit. It's the "before" that's throwing me off. It tells me that he's scum now, not in a past game. I mean, I wish I'm wrong here. I'm hoping that Eagle is able to clear this up and I just looked at it cross-eyed somewhere, because I really don't trust the whole slip notion in the first place. But I just can't wrap my head around how that could be anything else.

He is saying that because he lacks the experience as scum what EP is suggesting as a gambit is not a thing he would do. At least that is how I read it

This. This is what was going on. I'm not scum. Before was inclusive, but shiro nailed why I said what I did.

Hey guys that are townreading EE here, lynch all liars should apply here right?

Um... What? I said I wouldn't pull a gambit again as scum. Too risky and I don't have enough experience as scum to try something that risky. Where did I lie?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

PEdit: EE reads as new town eager to play the game and a little over his head.

~Spiffy

Hey man, I just need to adjust. This is a LOT of people. O_o

elyse, join us on the fruit train

I am slightly scumreading grapes for no follow-up like Aneninen

I'm interested to see grapes' response to the pressure though.

Me too. You should put some pressure on him. Or aninen. Or me. You know, your top scum read. Unless you've got your vote on me just because you're angry at me?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

itlepip, I might be reading this wrong, but your case seems to be a misunderstanding.

I think the gambit Eagle speaks of first is the whole "not voting" gambit
The gambit Eagle speaks of as being too risky is the whole "getting involved in everything point that Garmr made" gambit

Correct me if I'm wrong, Eagle

somebody show me why I'm being accused of lying?

Is he saying that I'm saying that I would never pull off a gambit?
Because I'm not saying that. I'm saying I wouldn't pull a gambit again as scum.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

What gambit are you talking about right now?

i don't specifically remember what it was. It was awhile ago, and on another site.

MOD EDIT- QUOTES FIXED

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Titus I'm really too tired and don't have too much to do the full reads list in human speak right now, but when I post the new set of reads tomorrow I'll put them in humanspeak

PEdit:
1. Yes
2. Yes

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Stranger's posts have a "look everyone! I'm busy!" quality to them. I also don't think the Jaquen head would approach a scum read in that manner.

A man isn't busy but is finding Battlefront of much and more interest than this. That is having nothing to do with scum reading this one. Gwen is scum and anyone touching a wagon that one is helping to champion is pushing a mislynch.

I'm starting to think a man might be scum because any towny would definitely be interested in all that's going on. Because they don't have everything already figured out.

kk UNVOTE: all I needed. When you were saying that you didn't do the gambit I thought you were referring to the first gambit not the second non-gambit. I think you can understand why I was confused.

VOTE: Grapes

Pedit: ohh it is this guy, great...

a man thinks that a man's style of posting might make a man mad at a man so a man wants a man to stop saying a man when referring to a man or a man.

Oh. Ok, that makes sense.

PEdit: I'm liking you more and more

I noticed Elyse is right on the border of "happily lynch"

How do you feel about her right now?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

It shouldn't take you too long to naturally put your reads in basic text form with no formatting or funny names to make it clear.

C'mon, they're not that convoluted, if you would just click the open spoiler thing it's pretty simple. And you would be enjoying some of my hard work. Shoot, if you just want the naked read I even colored it at the end for you so you can see clearer. In the time I could be rewriting my reads so you can read them, I could make part of a whole new list of reads which I was going to do tomorrow anyways. I wrote like a freaking paragraph on each person. And they aren't super long paragraphs, either.

I hate disappointing you, Titus, it's leaving a big empty feeling at the bottom of my stomach (although that might be in part because I haven't eaten yet) but I really don't want to go back and rewrite what is, in my opinion, a piece of art, right now, when it would take you far less time to actually read it. Just skip the opening paragraphs and read the content in the spoilers. It hurts me when people don't like me or appreciate what I put my time and effort into.

Spoiler:

You've already proven you can think ahead. What's to say that you didn't put your neck on the line just so that you can use this defense later?
I personally don't believe it, just want to hear your response.

Far too risky. I'm a horrible actor. I did try to gambit once as scum and I don't think I've ever been lynched faster, with the exception of my first couple mafia games - I was annoying as crap (still kinda am, I guess) and stupid and thought that everyone that voted me must be scum.
When I gambit as I have a hard time figuring out how to read people without cutting my options down too much. I haven't played scum much before.

If you're a terrible gambiter, why would you deliberately try a gambit to draw votes to me and suppose it would succeed?

The key phrase you're missing there is "as scum"

Is anyone's browser doing this weird thing where it takes forever to submit a post?

Turn your router off and then on again. Save your work to like notepad or something first, though.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

VOTE: grapes

One of your scum reads started that wagon. Someone you've actually been considering scum reading for a while. And someone you've just thrice stated is scum in your opinion. I think it's interesting you're joining this wagon. Perhaps you should explain?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm liking you more and more

I noticed Elyse is right on the border of "happily lynch"

How do you feel about her right now?

@aunt jemima

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Elyse, how do you feel about spidergwen? How do you feel about lynching her today?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Klingon, if everyone (or most everyone) backed off right now, how soon could you read the thread and share reads?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

My gizzard is screaming at me right now. Shut up, gizzard. Let me think for a moment. You might have a point, but let me contemplate it.
@itlepip, passionate storm, Elyse, and anyone else who's on right now, what are your thoughts on Shiro and Varsoon?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Elyse @Titus Back off of me, both of you. Seriously, I didn't say I would ask for the time. I didn't say I wanted to give her more time. You have your meta reads and stuff. Fine. Let me read her for myself. I wanted her answer and I was hoping to get it without it being polluted by anyone. I'm building a freaking theory here, I'm trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together and you're getting in the way. Did I ask you? No. So back off for a second and let the girl answer. I have to go into work somewhat early tomorrow, so I'm working on putting tomorrow morning's reads out tonight, but that's not going to happen if you mess with my answers. I promise you can yell about how I'm scum all you want AFTER I get my answer.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm doing my usual as Town, whether you like it or not. Reads come as I get them.

So your only reads are AJ town and us scum? Really? Nothing on grapes Alch ee? Spiffeh? Elyse?

I posted a read on Grapes.

I want to re-read Elyse and Spiffeh.

Alchemist, Anen, PereV, and Hiplop I always have trouble reading.

Extrapolated Eagle, Randomidget, Spider Gwen I don't know, they'll be harder to figure out.

How soon can this become a full list?

Added pressure on her doesn't prevent you from reading her yourself. So please don't tell them to back off.

~Spiffy

Don't have a problem with their pressure on Klingon. I do have a problem with these:

@Klingon, if everyone (or most everyone) backed off right now, how soon could you read the thread and share reads?

You should be lynched for this comment. You don't back off from people in hopes they give content, you threaten them with the noose until they comply.

Klingon has zero problem telling us her thoughts as town, and I have battled with her on this. She engages various people and charges, sometimes with shit logic but she's there. Scum Klingon always begs for more time and delivers a pile of steaming shit if anything at all.

~Titus

I think nothing of both of them.

Also ditto to what Titus said about giving Kling more time.

When other people respond to my questions first, it affects the answer of the intended target.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Klingon. How soon on the reads?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

How soon can this become a full list?

By the end of Day 1. Maybe sooner. I'm not in so many games right now, so, over the next 7-10 R/L days probably. Two or three at a time.

Ok, thank you.
@Passionate Storm & Elyse

Sorry for responding the way I did. I hate it when my questions get answered or responded to by someone other than the intended target.

I think Passionate Storm is likely town, now, though I'm skeptical of the play there and I'm curious as to why she joins wagons with her scum reads on them.

Yes, this means I think it's likely that spidergwen is scum. Reads coming shortly, hopefully.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

The odds of getting an all town wagon d1 are abysmal. I have managed the feat for awhile but it's not common. Voting scumreads is a priority. Now if only scum were on the wagon, that'd be an issue. Let scum bus if they play anti-scum.

Makes sense. Let me sort this out first and I'll get back to you sometime tonight

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Garmr feel free to share when you get a chance

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Spider Gwen. Describe yourself. Are you crazy and kinda carefree when maybe you shouldn't be, or certain and detached?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I don't know how I missed this earlier.

Ehh...I kinda have to turn sideways to see it. Maybe.

New tac:
@Eagle: Do you make 1/1 associations often?

I love making associations, yes. Not quite sure what you mean by 1/1 in terms of mafia, though

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@dapper, how do you feel about sharing reads?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright, my reads will be better/more accurate, I think, after my questions get answered, but here's where I'm at:
Inte might be scum. No one brings up his absence or responds to his two posts in rvs, which look like they're trying to look town without admitting that he's not all that invested.
Elyse is probably scum- doesn't push, likes to try to keep things smoothed over and stay nice, nobody is interested in her, and she didn't really retaliate past voting me. She voted me and ignores it afterwards. Has scum reads but doesn't really press. Accuses a much less active pigeon of the same thing.
Shiro might be scum: keeps up with the thread kinda sorta, seems to just be playing around with bassoon. People seem to ignore her for the most part. I didn't like 297
Alchemist might be scum: simply notes things, makes everyone aware he's keeping up. Talk about lynching but people get sidetracked and few follow through.
Garmr might be scum. Tunnels me as "pushing town read" which I'm good with. Not a fan of the fact that he dropped the tunnel, hasn't moved on to anyone else, and is just kind of being ignored now.
Dapper Stranger or Aunt Jemima might be scum. Really shaky in these two. The former doesn't seem to care much what's going on and no one notices him. The latter seems to be doing some mixture of buddying and ignoring me. Not really pushing her reads, too much.

These reads were based on a theory of mine. Scum try not to recognize or interact too much day one. Especially with a large game where they can hide. Elyse is confident, though, so she's different. Also I think they're in different places and they don't like to vote together. If I had to call out a scum team out right now the people I mentioned above would be it. I'm not quite sure the number of scum, so I added the last two on as just in case.

This was assisted by the creation of this document:

The red lines are aggressiveness. The blue ones are smoothing things over.

I don't think Klingon is too likely to be scum. Too many votes on her, too many people interested. Same for passionate storm and grapes and pigeon. Itlepip seems to be figuring things out. Tso has gotten a bit of talk for few posts. Likely not scum, imo. Spider Gwen also too much crossfire, too in the middle of things.


I am innocent is strange, and strangely ignored. He might belong on the first list, but he's null for now. epidemiology is also everywhere and harder to read when it comes to this. Null for now.

The others haven't posted anything or post like once or twice, but my gizzard says shut up and don't worry about them for now.

I'll go more in depth tomorrow night and try both styles of reading together if I get the chance. There will be more to read into then. But for now, I have to say goodnight because I've gotta be at work in a couple hours and I need my beauty sleep

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright, my reads will be better/more accurate, I think, after my questions get answered, but here's where I'm at:
Inte might be scum. No one brings up his absence or responds to his two posts in rvs, which look like they're trying to look town without admitting that he's not all that invested.
Elyse is probably scum- doesn't push, likes to try to keep things smoothed over and stay nice, nobody is interested in her, and she didn't really retaliate past voting me. She voted me and ignores it afterwards. Has scum reads but doesn't really press. Accuses a much less active pigeon of the same thing.
Shiro might be scum: keeps up with the thread kinda sorta, seems to just be playing around with bassoon. People seem to ignore her for the most part. I didn't like 297
Alchemist might be scum: simply notes things, makes everyone aware he's keeping up. Talk about lynching but people get sidetracked and few follow through.
Garmr might be scum. Tunnels me as "pushing town read" which I'm good with. Not a fan of the fact that he dropped the tunnel, hasn't moved on to anyone else, and is just kind of being ignored now.
Dapper Stranger or Aunt Jemima might be scum. Really shaky in these two. The former doesn't seem to care much what's going on and no one notices him. The latter seems to be doing some mixture of buddying and ignoring me. Not really pushing her reads, too much.

These reads were based on a theory of mine. Scum try not to recognize or interact too much day one. Especially with a large game where they can hide. Elyse is confident, though, so she's different. Also I think they're in different places and they don't like to vote together. If I had to call out a scum team out right now the people I mentioned above would be it. I'm not quite sure the number of scum, so I added the last two on as just in case.

This was assisted by the creation of this document:

The red lines are aggressiveness. The blue ones are smoothing things over.

I don't think Klingon is too likely to be scum. Too many votes on her, too many people interested. Same for passionate storm and grapes and pigeon. Itlepip seems to be figuring things out. Tso has gotten a bit of talk for few posts. Likely not scum, imo. Spider Gwen also too much crossfire, too in the middle of things.


I am innocent is strange, and strangely ignored. He might belong on the first list, but he's null for now. epidemiology is also everywhere and harder to read when it comes to this. Null for now.

The others haven't posted anything or post like once or twice, but my gizzard says shut up and don't worry about them for now.

I'll go more in depth tomorrow night and try both styles of reading together if I get the chance. There will be more to read into then. But for now, I have to say goodnight because I've gotta be at work in a couple hours and I need my beauty sleep

[Extrapolated Eagle]

The effect that it had has nothing to do with whether the post is scummy or not or whether grapes is scummy or not. That was a no content post where Grapes was staying on the sidelines. He doesn't take a definitive stance. So he's not sticking his neck out for anything. It's him testing the waters. Not him begging people to think. Your entire approach is backwards.

I liked watching his wagon. I can see where you guys were coming from. I think he's town though, partially because of my most recent post.

Yeah. My approach is backwards. But I like it that way. It's harder to defend against.[/quote]

Spidey, I agree completely.

Me and spiffy were discussing eagles random townread of us.

What should we do?

When did I town read you?

Or are you talking about errant?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

This was assisted by the creation of this document:

The red lines are aggressiveness. The blue ones are smoothing things over.

Wanted to add that I only drew a line for what I deemed significant occurrences between players and that I only drew the occurrence once. For example if person a voted person b twice, I'd only draw one red line. If he buddies person b once and voted person b once, I would draw one of each. The multiple lines of the same color between people is me trying to make the lines thicker

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Apologies. It is late, and I saw your post and typed out your name

yes, I meant errant. I do however appreciate his support of the FRUIT WAGON and hes not at the top of our radar, spideygwenny

Too many e's. I assume this is hiplop?

Ok I'm actually tired, and going to bed now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

My gizzard is screaming at me right now. Shut up, gizzard. Let me think for a moment. You might have a point, but let me contemplate it.
@itlepip, passionate storm, Elyse, and anyone else who's on right now, what are your thoughts on Shiro and Varsoon?

Shiro is less giffy than I hoped for, and I didn't know varsoon was in this game

"Mr spock send me some high.... Quality gifs for this Kind gentleman here... See how he likes our... Collection."

Why baby doll?

Can you at least vote Klingon?

*bats eyelashes*

You'll find I'm full of surprises.
But I'll never join you.

I had to

@Eagle you are in for a surprise if you find my fooling around scummy xD

Just fooling around with a new theory, nothing to see here.

I'll let you know if any of these become solid enough to be lynchable with the exception of Elyse. For right now these are just feelers in the water. I think I might have messed up anyways, but if this reads list does better than my other one, then I'll start using it more. It's certainly much easier for me to do.

@Klingon, if everyone (or most everyone) backed off right now, how soon could you read the thread and share reads?

I don't think she'll get lynched without posting a readlist. This post came very early, according to the vote amount on her. I remember doing something similar as scum in another game...

You should be lynched for this comment. You don't back off from people in hopes they give content, you threaten them with the noose until they comply.

So, I wasn't the only one who had the same feeling.

You don't make enemies of your town reads, at least not in my experience. But I wasn't asking anyone to back off. My theory was she's town because of all the votes on her. Association theory says it's likely, my brain didn't like her answer though. That's too much time if they're just going to be pop in three reads and hiding again.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@garmr your whole post is stuff you've said before and makes it obvious you're not reading what I'm posting in response to you....


So you're on the ignore list until you can calm down and read. My brain and my theory both say it's likely you're scum, though, because this sounds like convenient tunneling to me, when the argument is repeated bs and the author isn't reading and until it gets brought up that he's dropped his aggression for some reason it gets brought up against. It does provide a good way for you to ignore other players, though, like ythan did in my last game, and ignore list doesn't mean I'm ignoring your scumminess, just your stupidity.
That said, my theory says it's slightly unlikely that you flip scum with Elyse (I noticed my mistake when I woke up for some reason), so if you know she's your scum buddy you can keep acting like an idiot for a while because she's next and then whoever theory says is more likely, I think. Unless I've discarded theory by then.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Garmt, every one of your points I've responded to or is really freaking dumb.

1. The reads early game were to push people around and get them out of their comfort zone so I could read them better when I had sleep and time to distance myself from the thread. That includes reads, my reads are freaking crap if I haven't had time to take a step back. I believe thhat on multiple occasions I had made it clear that I til I posted my next days reads list none of those could be taken seriously.
2.see one. Not saying this again.
3.NOT AT ALL, bucko. Glancing at and skimming are NOT under any circumstance reading thoroughly and understanding as you have proven time and time again.
4.see 1 and my most recent pistsm READ them this time don't glance or skim
5. I literally said its likely you aren't a team. So HoW on earth is this linking you?
6.

Read.
The.
Game.
Please.

I don't think you can make this up. I have pushed Elyse harder than anyone else this game.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

garmr, this is most of the stuff against Elyse. Quote me where I pushed you at freaking all.

Also, quote me where "eagle's other stuff is meh"
You dan say something like that and then not back it up

Spoiler:

E

XTRAPOLATED

E

AGLE

'

S

E

XCELLENT

R

EADS

"

When a storm is coming, all other birds seek shelter. The eagle alone avoids the storm by flying above it.

"

-Unknown

Eagle wakes and leaves his nest, soaring the skies as he often liked to do as if to say to the sun, "I can get higher than you." It wasn't true of, course but aime days Eagle just felt the need to fly above

something

, anything.

Eagle's afterthought: pigeon, it appears I was wrong what I said about eagles and storms yesterday, but it made for good flavor. I honestly didn't find out until I was looking for eagle quotes this morning

EAGLE looked out over the world and saw all- the creatures calling his name, and those that did not. Many had questions for the eagle, for he had done something that had scared and confused them.

"Peace, friends. All will be answered now. I am here. I have had time to think and sleep. But you must wait until the end of this post for answers to questions, first I shall tell you what I think of you so you may all go back to gossipin.
"There is an intruder in my forest," the eagle continued, "in your forest. In our forest. You have discovered this already. I suspected it. Which is why I did what I did. Was it the best course of action? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It was the first time I had tried such a thing. I think, for now, it was helpful. I shall come back and look at it better when this whole predicament is over, and I know who the intruders are, and how they reacted.
"And it will be over. You can rest assured that we will find and kill the intruders. So for now, I share my thoughts on who they are."

First,

Varsoon, the Knight

Spoiler:

The Eagle looked at the man, burly, yet quivering in his once fine suit of armor.
"I cannot tell about you, yet sir, whether that quiver is really or fake. How the spider knew you were going to come before you came, I know not. Perhaps she knows you from elsewhere, her eggsac

was

in a castle. I enjoy how humbly you came into our forest, how respectful you were. How you seemed to try to stir things up the moment you heard there were intruders. And your frustration when it seemed to come to nothing. But it was early in the day, perhaps a bit too early. But for now, friend, I think you belong here.

null/

town

But when you get a chance, dear sir, could you share your thoughts on the others here? You likely know them better then I.

Next,

SpiderGwen, the Spider

Spoiler:

"Either you or the clouds in the distance do not belong here. You did do exactly what I expected the intruder to do, but not when I expected them to do it. You grew your nest after the clouds had changed direction, but perhaps that does not matter? You do seem to stay close to me, which I greatly appreciate, so for now I shan't tear down your web. For as my mother told me,

"You should never turn against your friends in times of trouble, unless you are certain they mean you malice. For if you have no friends in times of trouble, you have no friends at all."

"You are kind of crazy, and maybe a little stubborn, but you're strong, and I like you. You certainly didn't seem to expect the clouds, and you attacked them when it appeared they were intruders here. You seem to have locked your targets and even your friendliness towards me seems to be something an intruder would not do, for you have put yourself on a limb for me, and I am grateful for that. There is not much time that has passed since we have been invaded, but you seem to be on our side.

slight town

But be warned, my lady, for if the storm belongs, then you do not.

Passionate Storm, the Storm

Spoiler:

"I see you, maiden of destruction, brewing in the West. How fickle and careless you seem. You lock onto what you say doesn't belong, but change it for something you don't care about. You thunder about me and why I am dangerous, yet, if I understand you correctly, I am not even your most suspicious of creatures, yet little is said about them. How little you care about who lives and dies, yet how controlled your stormy side is. You seem to be putting on a show, and I fear how the show ends.

slight scum

You and the spider do not belong together. Nor do you and the notebook.

Eagle's sidenote: I honestly wasn't thinking of your hydra, and I only read enough of your wiki to get a feel for you. When you noted that it was your hydra name, it rung a bell and I figured I would go along with it, but I didn't actually go that in depth, too many people. I also have no idea what insuyasha is.

ErrantParabola, the Scholar's Notebook

Spoiler:

"You are an interesting fellow, sir. Your pages seem to be filled with the frustrated scribblings of one who believed himself misunderstood. Which makes me think perhaps you do not mean malice on the forest. Perhaps I am wrong, but perhaps not. How you handled the end of our conversation yesterday seems interesting, going from a town to null read could be anything from an intruder trying to see how accusatory he can be towards others to a resident being careful who he calls friend. I am wary of you, Mr Book. But for now,

slight town

I do not like how the rain from the storm seems to fondle rather than ruin your pages, however, perhaps you can share what you think of this matter?

Aneninen, the Pigeon

Spoiler:

"Of you, my fellow feathered creature, I find myself quite fond. You seem a bit confused as to why we are being invaded, and this makes me think you aren't an invader. Those who I think to have intruded seem to dislike and accuse you, and this adds up to me thinking that us birds of a feather should fly together. I have enjoyed our conversations up until this point and I see not why we should not cease this.

slight town

You speak quite vaguely, though, could you explain who this Chlotilde is?

Elyse, the Girl

Spoiler:

"I believe, dear girl, that you do not belong here. You did EXACTLY what I expected from scum and stated so. That I would attract attention provocatively, someone would jump on me for it, and then a scum, seeing me, knowing I'm town, would vote for the one who voted for me. You spent an entire case building a case on me, cool, calm, collected, not caught up in all the confusion, and then instead of voting for me, you voted for the one voting for me. With no case built at all against the poor bear. On top of this, you attack my friend the Pigeon.

slight scum

VOTE: Elyse

Garmr, the Bear

Spoiler:

"Yes, I know you try to appear as a wolf, but you behave like a dreary mother bear, coming out of hibernation to find her cub missing. So for now, you are the bear. I am not quite sure what to make of you. You either believe words to mean things that they don't, or you make up new meanings for words. The case you have built against me is, in parts, legitimate. But most of those parts were intentional. Other parts of your case might have been legitimately what you see, but are not true. For example this:

. After a quick glance

A skim means a quick readin this case I skimmed every post................

I did read your posts Like i said I read every post and these are my first thoughts off my head aka a skim.

"A quick glance" and "skimming" are the same thing. Neither of them mean reading fully, which is what you seem to say they mean in the last post. Yes, I believe this argument is relevant, unless English is not your first language, and in that case, the argument is a bit ridiculous, and I will drop it immediately. You seem to tunnel me pretty hard and be proud of it, though, and I think that perhaps you misread/misunderstood/didn't believe in my gambit, all of which would make sense coming from a town player, fmpov.

So

slight town

But I can assure you I have done nothing against your cub. So please start trying to pull down someone else's tree, I don't want to have to move my nest again.

grapes, the Grapes

Spoiler:

"I like you. Many creatures say you are tasty, but, no offense, I prefer to eat creatures. But you seem to have very similar reads to mine and you seem to be quite intelligent, for a fruit. You don't seem turned by the chaos of the other animals, and you don't seem to be aware of what is going on, though you look to be figuring it out"

slight town

I particularly like this post:

i wonder if 5-6 people scumreading klingon for making a bold fos means anything

It's interesting, is it not? I think maybe it does mean something. Though I town read the people on that wagon right now.
I am curious to hear about your vote for spifflop, though.

... Wow there are a lot of people. I need a break from this, so I'm going to leave you with this and come back in a bit. (Hopefully before lunch, maybe not until after work).

As soon as you explain how thats not just a giant waste of time, sure.

Who dis

@EE

huh?

Aside from that entire post being annoying as fuck, your scumread on me makes no sense. My vote on Garmr was justified completely

How so? Please quote where.

and my "case" on you was a mish mash of observations and questions I had.

I see. So I wasn't scum in your eyes, yet, but you had lots to say, But on your scum read you're speechless?

I didn't build an argument against you piece by piece like you said. I think you're trying to say that I'm white knighting you, which isn't the case since I'm not townreading you. Your analysis is very superficial and doesn't look at motivations behind actions.

I don't know, white knighting is very much motivation. Also for someone who's really upset about a "superficial" read, voting aneninen for his "tone" is quite interesting.

I also disagree with, like, all of your reads except errant.

And suddenly I feel paranoid about voting Anen

You should. That would also make two reads you agree with me on. Quick question, if I'm scum, why do you find yourself agreeing with me more and more?

Mobilpost.

Not to brag or anything, but all of my posts have been mobile. Yeah. That last post was a craps ton of work.

As soon as you explain how thats not just a giant waste of time, sure.

Who dis

@EE

Aside from that entire post being annoying as fuck, your scumread on me makes no sense. My vote on Garmr was justified completely and my "case" on you was a mish mash of observations and questions I had. I didn't build an argument against you piece by piece like you said. I think you're trying to say that I'm white knighting you, which isn't the case since I'm not townreading you. Your analysis is very superficial and doesn't look at motivations behind actions.

I also disagree with, like, all of your reads except errant.

First you vote for me in the sign-up thread and now here...

I bet you remember NeuroScience... you were so cute when I was after you and you were flailing all the time. What a pity that I dropped the case and lost the game to you later. Nevertheless, I want to see that again.

wish granted?

Elyse I really look forward to you responding to me. I'm excited to see what all this not being here at all will warrant and the great in depth reads that look at the motivations behind the players that you post.

Aside from that entire post being annoying as fuck, your scumread on me makes no sense. My vote on Garmr was justified completely

How so? Please quote where.

Here:

I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood. I was talking about BEFORE you voted him.

No, you are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting me. You said that I built a case on you piece by piece and then just voted for Garmr at the end without justifying it. What I'm saying is that any "case" you think I built was simply my catchup post regarding your actions. Yes, I scumread you, but you weren't at the top of my list.

So let me get this straight, you were scum reading me, but later you weren't willing to vote me, and you were scum reading me without a case against me?
And apart from this your vote on garmr with no explanation or observations at the time was just something I should ignore?

White knighting is townreading someone under pressure as scum to look better when they flip. Do you think I'm doing that to you?

Umm, you're the one that said it. I don't like how you seem to be trying to put words in my mouth and then trying to use them against me.

I also like how you don't deny your reads are superficial and instead try to attack me. I've already explained that Anen's post lack the intention of finding scum. They are a cluster of meaningless observations and questions with no follow-up. In other words, I am looking at the motivations of his posts.

How is this looking for motivation? Explain the scum motivation behind his posts, pretty please.

Feeling paranoid about voting someone does not mean I suddenly townread them, thank you very much. Whenever a lurker comes out of nowhere and joins a wagon I'm on with shit reasoning, it makes me think that maybe the wagon is on town and a scum lurker is taking advantage.

so it doesn't make you town read them, but it makes you think about it. But you are moving in the direction of agreeing with more of my reads.

I also won't answer that scummy bs loaded question.

because? Explain how it's scummy bs pls

Fuck off.
VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Idgaf if people call this OMGUS but his entire response to me reeked of cocky scum. The constant misreps, deflections, and false accusations ping hard and don't match up with his previous play.

Quote misrepresenting and reflections and false accusations pls.

Also being cocky != being scum my. Why would it? Town people are cocky when they think they've caught scum. Pls explain scum motivation behind being cocky.

So, ladies and gentlemen of the forest, why is Elyse so angry? Why is she so frustrated? Well, to put it in her words it's because:

Excuse me but my win rate is very good as scum.

She's frustrated she was not expecting to get caught after falling for such a silly gambit. She's already set herself up in a difficult spot after budduing one of her scum buddies, and she knows that if she gets caught here it's going to be bad juju for mafia. Vote Elyse. Let's lynch scum

Well I've gotta get going to work now. I'll respond to that later. Bye!

1. Well the first quote was before I voted him and the second was in reference to things that happened before I voted him so I don't know what your problem is.

my bad, you're right here. Sorry.

2. I was scumreading you but you weren't my top scumread, yes. I never said you should ignore a vote without justification, but I did justify mine.

see response to #1

3. I said white knighting because I thought that's what you were referencing. Otherwise I have no idea what you were trying to say.

you don't have to. You're acum

4. Seriously...? I just said that his observations don't lead anywhere and he doesn't follow up his questions. He's not motivated to find scum.

oh. Kinda like you're asking questions and interrogating me right now? Because you aren't. You're just defensive. Or like you're aggressively questioning Gwen?

6. This was your question:
"Quick question, if I'm scum, why do you find yourself agreeing with me more and more?"
This is A) loaded B) scummy because it serves no purpose C) bullshit because I'm not agreeing with you

Oh, so you're NOT starting to think that maybe aneninen is town because a stranger came in and voted him for no reason?

7. You misrepped me when you said I built up a case on you and voted someone without justification

scuse me but you and I have very different definitions of building a a case

.
You deflected my point about your reads being superficial by accusing me of the same thing even when I proved you wrong.

that's not deflecting. That's ignoring a stupid accusations. And how on earth did you prove me wrong?

You falsely accused me of "not being here at all" and townreading Aneninen.

again, so you didn't start to think that maybe aneninen might be town because a stranger came in and voted him for no reason? Or you got nervous that your vote might be scum? I'm not seeing it here

I'm not frustrated. I am angry because you're annoying as fuck to deal with though.

Are you implying you should just sit around and make small talk with your scum reads, like you chatted Gwen up about where you thought she was acting scum my?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Dang it the tags screwed up

[Extrapolated Eagle]

By the way if you feel like it you can vote Elyse with ms

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@garmr
Quick question, did you just happen to miss all the stuff in 514 because you "glanced over it" or "skimmed it?" Because that would make sense

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Or are you just not reading the game thread and tunneling me because it's a good way to get out of reading your fellow players?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

See what I mean? Garbage. That whole post. Just like the last one. You're free to argue what you want. The whole thing goes in the trash can.
Now you have two options:
1. Whine about how I'm not responding anymore
Or go back and actually read the thread, make a quality thought out post, READ this time instead of looking for what you want to because you miss things when you do it the latter way, and stop being an idiot.

I have to say though, and this is a big reason I'm scum reading you: this is only crappy play if you're town. If you're scum this is actually good play because you're likely to get ignored as VI and people will think you're kind of town if I flip for the opposite reason people think scum are town when they white knight- scum would know my alignment so why would garmer press so hard if eagle flipped town?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm surprised TSO isn't a presence

Why? That one is rarely having a presence D1.

I thought I remember him being a presence D1 of the last game.

@Garmr
Your points are good. I would join you on EE but it doesn't seem to have enough support today because yeah people think he's town and it's annoying. Literally interactions with him go like this:

You: *brings up valid point*
EE: *doesn't address it*
You: *restates point in a different way or asks him to address it directly*
EE: "READ THE THREAD YOU'RE A VI MY THEORYYYYYY!"

You're a silly girl, how does this not sound familiar to you?

You don't make enemies of your town reads, at least not in my experience.

Have we met before?
By the way, I don't think I care a lot about getting friends or enemies.

perhaps on another forum. You do play like another I knew, but I have changed much.

Perhaps not. But a man who has people who believe they are his friend is much stronger than a man does not.

Stop guessing. If you're town you have nothing to be afraid of.
So, do you want to be Clotilde?

Then uhm sure, I am game

Hmmm... let me read a bit first.

By the way, Garmr looks town. His scumposting style is different, according to my experience.

*nods*
This is most likely. I do have to point out, thouh, that his play is not far from optimal for scum. Unfortunately, people do not often play to the optimal positions for their roles, myself included.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@fb, yes, I agree. Notice how Elyse and Titus are always on those wagons? I don't think they're likely together, however.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I was talking to Garmr

Okay.
Do you want to be Clotilde?

I think she should be chlotilde, if that matters to you at all

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh Shiro beat me too it. I noticed something late. Oh well.

FOS Alchemists

Now let's lynch Elyse

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Grapes I explained my lack of scum read on you and I don't think I ever called you town

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Grapes I explained my lack of scum read on you and I don't think I ever called you town

But I do think you're town

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Elyse if you're town, alignment claim

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Hey alchemy if you help lynch Elyse then you won't be the one that does today.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@EE, What is your read on each person on the Klingon wagon?

AJ null/weak scum
Aneninen town
Elyse strong scum
Passionate Storm slight town
itlepip slight town

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Elyse if you're town, alignment claim

What sort of answer do you expect?

Perhaps something that will help me. But if notx or is likely I William ger at least an exemple. And if I dont get either of the things I expect, I'm probably wrong about her.

Hey alchemy if you help lynch Elyse then you won't be the one that does today.

I think she's Town though.

As much as I hate this answer, I think it likely makes you town.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@EE, What is your read on each person on the Klingon wagon?

AJ null/weak scum
Aneninen town
Elyse strong scum
Passionate Storm slight town
itlepip slight town

Explain all of these please. Particularly Anen and Elyse make no sense.

Why are you asking about those two now? They're like two of my longest held reads and two of my strongest.
Elyse
-builds a list of observations and questions for me as well as a scum read, but instead of voting me, votes garmr- she refuses to truly take a side
-does not push her scum reads, even Gwen, who she said she thought was scum when I asked her later to make sure, she just talked about how it wasn't what Gwen should be doing. She hasn't pushed anyone all game
-When I attacked and pushed her until she reacted, instead of getting furious and letting things fly, she retaliated quickly with an over the top vote that seemed fake as craps with a post that was designed, in my eyes to look "too scum my to be scum"
-after that instead of following up her scum read with retaliation against me, or pushing me in any way, she completely dropped it and moved onto other things.
-with the exception of garmr which I already explained is scum my, she has never lead a wagon, there always have to be other people there first.
- She sheep's your response to Klingon, and let's it look like you did it first


And there is a lot more that I want to say but it's dinnertime so I'll be back later. But if you want, you can go back and look at all elyses posts. There's a pattern there. None of them are willing to take risks. None of them are pushy in any way shape or form. All of them are controlled. She likes to stick in a crowd of votes. She likes to spend more time making sure her tail is covered than getting on the butts of people she wants dead.

Can I emphasize enough that she doesn't press her scum reads, something she specifically accused aneninen of being scum for doing?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh and here's a pretty big one for me: she did almost to the letter what I said how I expected scum to react to my gambit. I'll quote it after dinner

[Extrapolated Eagle]

My internet has, not once but twice, somehow caused my quotes to disappear. More than a little rage-inducing.

Ctrl+a, then ctrl+c. Then post.

If it deletes, then hit ctrl+V and you haven't lost anything

[Extrapolated Eagle]

2. You and everyone else who responded to my intentionally provocative posting were bait. In a way. I initially was very vague and weird with the hope of grabbing the attention of people. (You and errant) the goal was to get people to vote me. Which you both did (obligingly).

6 pages already. After a quick glance I'm going to say

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

I don't really trust the bird. He seems to want to get involved in everything. He also didn't really provide a good reasoning for voting epola and never does. I would think a town player would try and push his first suspect to reveal more information instead his sitting back defending himself and I think trying to justify his vote by defending himself.

His other content is meh.

2.5 "How were we bait?" At this point, I believe that if I was a scum and I saw town voting provocative town, I would respond by voting the voting group

[quote="In

VOTE: Garmr

P-edit:

Yeah this was the right vote.

Mod - Quotes fixed

[Extrapolated Eagle]

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

I've been beating on them a lot, so I like this as a vote. I also like Klingon as a vote, though.

That's actually really boring. Like, REALLY boring. I wasn't expecting that from you.

Oh well. Let me know when you're all caught up. By the way, if you're interested in why Elyse is scum, the most recent posts on it are far more interesting than that old garbage.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

I've been beating on them a lot, so I like this as a vote. I also like Klingon as a vote, though.

That's actually really boring. Like, REALLY boring. I wasn't expecting that from you.

I've rarely been accused of being boring, and I'm sad to say it hurts. Just a little bit.

I'm sorry, I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't expected something a little more... Exciting. And less... Anticlimactic. But the fact that I expected that from you is a plus, because I don't expect it from too many people.

And I look forward to that justice and everything you talked about. It sounds fun.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I am feeling pretty cold about the Eagle wagon, he actually feels like the easy mislynch today for me. His posts have a noob quality to them, but I think at least for right now it is more noob town. I think that he thinks that the gambit was much more risky than it actually was, and so it was towny cause of that. Elyse's last post reads soo scummy to me... If you think he is scum you should go balls to the wall automatically, not just if other people are okay with that lynch. Klingon needs to really start defending herself before I unvote though.

That's the word I was looking for that.

Lynchbait. That was the premise of my big gambit. I was/am lynchbait. But that's the goal. I understood this might go here when I did that.

But that's also two reasons Elyse is scum in this post:
1. Fell for gambit by intentionally trying to appear as if missing lynchbait/avoiding lynchbait by voting garmr
2. Votes people when there's "support" for it.

So I'm cool with this lynch. I don't think it will actually happen, in fact I hope it won't, particularly because I was hoping to lynch all the scum first. But if you need my blood first, that's fine. Unfortunately I doubt anyone will follow through on my ever accurate reads, so I kind of need to stay alive so we can win this, but if you manage without me, that's fun too.

But I'm totally for lynching Elyse and her scummy face first.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Elyse, how do you feel about spidergwen? How do you feel about lynching her today?

---

Oops. I meant to clarify that that question was for this:

-does not push her scum reads, even Gwen, who she said she thought was scum when I asked her later to make sure

You should read that whole post through, by the way, if you get a chance. It's really fun and exciting and it talks all about how Elyse is actually the one who's supposed to die today.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I try to be carefee with this alt, although I do have my stubborn side. There are times when my facade drops and you can see the real me. At those points I'm pretty ticked off. I think you can say I wear my emotions on my sleeve.

I thought something similar, but I didn't realize this was an alt. That's why some of your stuff seems slightly out of character. I thought it might be because you were scum for a moment, but I couldn't see the motivation behind it, so I decided to read you like I'm reading Titus right now:
Either town or scum, but not in between at all. I'll make a decision by next reads, I think.

It might be best to ask someone who was in Secret Alt 2 though. Or read it yourself. That might give you a better idea. I might be a little biased.

Ok. I'll go find it and try to maybe read through a bit if it isn't too big before I reread the thread for tomorrow's reads.

@Klingon the things you're responding to are interesting and all, but I'm pretty curious as to how you're responding to rather core events: the grapes wagon, my argument with Elyse, the alchemists discussion, garmrs tunneling, one of those things. And you did you say two or three reads a night. Could we maybe see one of those with some pretty good reasoning please? Your thoughts are important to me.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I love making associations, yes. Not quite sure what you mean by 1/1 in terms of mafia, though

If/then associations. "If X is scum Y is town." That sort of stuff. Your read list is full of them.
/quote]
Yes. Actually, that was the next step from web reads, I think. Trying to make a logic puzzle out of who can and can't be scum together. It seemed like a good progression. But enough has happened since my last super serious reads list I'll probably just do them side by side or something tomorrow. I need to figure this out.

But yeah, the short answer is yes, I love one to one associations and associations in general, I believe generally that most things are relatively and can be related to another thing.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Man I am not having good luck with quotes at all today

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@spiffy
You are plenty welcome to respond to my most recent posts explaining why she's scummy. I highly doubt many people even read them, but you know how it goes.

How about this, spiffy. If you can summarize my argument about why Elyse is scum AND make me reconsider my points, I.e. refute it to my standard, I will come vote off Klingon today. Or you can explain to me the town motivation behind a large majority of Elyse's posts. I can almost promise you you won't be capable of doing either. Not because I'm set on her being scum, but because I've already checked.

To be completely honest, though, I don't think many people know or care what my argument against her is. It's largely being ignored, and no one has responded at all to the most recent version. It's fine, I didn't expect them too, just like I don't really expect people to start reading and paying attention to my longer posts or their read on me as a player. They'll just keep "pressing" me until something else catches their fancy and they'll all jump on it and soon enough you'll have everyone jumping on all the eyecstching mistakes town has made and ignoring the reserved, careful, and brewed over posts hiding the malice of scum. Just look at how they respond to Elyse. Like garmr they skim and look for anything that catches their eye, like pictures of eagles or pigeons and jump on it as scum. I mean seriously, garmr actually missed entire PAGES of me pushing Elyse. PAGES of it. The actual content doesn't matter it's how the content appears. Elyse doesn't do anything eye-catching, so she must be town. She doesn't react much either. Let's wagon grapes who opposed something we all agreed on until he doesn't respond much and we'll find someone else more exciting to wagon.

Oh well. Sorry about the rant. I just want to see proof you've read one of my posts, spiffy. Please. I'm not promising out of it, but to make me feel better? And I will keep the deal, if you can show me significant amounts of town motivation in Elyse's posts or respond to my argument in a meaningful and thought out way that gives good case to Elyse being town, I'll drop it and join you elsewhere.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I should add that 674 is in response to this post:

Extrapolated Eagle: Elyse is town. Start looking elsewhere please. Come vote for Klingon.

~Spiffy

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Thwarted by the new page.

~Spiffy

Inconvenient, isn't it?

spiffeh and I are too in tune I don't know what to post but I'm making this anyway

don't worry bird friend I'm reading your posts

Thanks. :')

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'd like to point out that you said I'm frustrated and cocky but also said I don't react much and don't post anything eye catching.

I don't believe I ever called you cocky, though we did have a discussion over the word after you called me cocky:

Fuck off.
VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Idgaf if people call this OMGUS but his entire response to me reeked of cocky scum. The constant misreps, deflections, and false accusations ping hard and don't match up with his previous play.

Also being cocky != being scum my. Why would it? Town people are cocky when they think they've caught scum. Pls explain scum motivation behind being cocky.

Also being cocky != being scum my. Why would it? Town people are cocky when they think they've caught scum. Pls explain scum motivation behind being cocky.

Meh that's true. Me knowing I'm town and that you're wrong makes me a little biased I guess into you being cocky scum. The bottom line is that your attitude changed. It's either due to cocky scum or misguided town and your posts make me think the former.

Also can we look at how scummy this post is?
You admit that town are more likely to be cocky and don't answer my question about why scum would be cocky. You then call me cocky scum anyways. Because I'm a scum read to you already. Who's the one with the problem with confbias?

Still, your logic is terrible, your case on me flawed and ever changing to fit your narrative of Elyse-scum even when it doesn't work

Actually, that's me rechecking my reads and reasons daily to make sure I'm not doing something silly like confbiasing. Part of the reason I'm so certain you're scum is because instead of becoming less sure of the reasons I had I find new reasons to add onto the ones I already had.

And I'm sick to my stomach now after that reply from Elyse.

PEdit: how are you in a place to doubt anyone's competency if you can't even spell it?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

^ That is so town it hurts.

~Spiffy

I'm starting to doubt your compantacy if you think that's town.

That being said klings getting flustered over some pretty awful reasoning does look scummy.

Since you seem to miss the important things, I'll just highlight this unimportant thing for you to bring up later.

PEdit: how are you in a place to doubt anyone's competency if you can't even spell it?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yeah like I said you're not worth responding to it's like talking to a brick wall

K then don't please and let me rant in peace without soiling it. Respond to all or responded to none. Thanks.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

My point: if I was a dick to call you incompetent, were you not a dick to call him incompetent?

Take from that what you will. It has now reached the time of the morning where I apply all my poor, hurt feelings to everyone else and then sit drowning in a pool of tears made by my own self-pity. We. I'm going to bed now, I can't finish these reads tonight. I'll get back to you tomorrow, goodnight.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Garmr calling someone incompetent is offensive no matter what the reason is. Whatever. That's all I'm gonna say on the matter

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Welcome, Ladies and Gentlemen to the Elyse is Scum post!

To be completely honest, when I was reading her posts again, I thought "hmm, maybe I'll actually be making an "I was wrong about Elyse post" " but then I kept reading. Let's get started, shall we?

First up,

Elyse likes people who share their reads!

Spoiler:

What are your reads

@Garmr
I want to see EE's reads list.

Awesome, she likes people who share their reads!

She must share all her reads, right?...

Spoiler:

Except no reads list. Anywhere.
At least that's not really too scummy, she just hasn't had a chance. Or maybe hasn't felt like it. I mean, why would we need a reads list from her? It's not like we need to ground her a little bit so she stops jumping wagons like opportunistic scum.
Could we actually get that from you, though, Elyse, a reads list? So you can stop jumping wagons like opportunistic scum?

This brings us to our next point: Elyse is opportunistic scum. This section is divided into two parts: Elyse avoids lynchbait for town cred and Elyse jumps wagons
So let's get this over with, shall we?

Elyse avoids lynchbait for town cred

Here's the infamous case of Eagle v Elyse where Elyse does exactly what eagle says scum would do shortly after eagle says it.

Spoiler:

2. You and everyone else who responded to my intentionally provocative posting were bait. In a way. I initially was very vague and weird with the hope of grabbing the attention of people. (You and errant) the goal was to get people to vote me. Which you both did (obligingly).

6 pages already. After a quick glance I'm going to say

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

I don't really trust the bird. He seems to want to get involved in everything. He also didn't really provide a good reasoning for voting epola and never does. I would think a town player would try and push his first suspect to reveal more information instead his sitting back defending himself and I think trying to justify his vote by defending himself.

His other content is meh.

2.5 "How were we bait?" At this point, I believe that if I was a scum and I saw town voting provocative town, I would respond by voting the voting group

[quote="In

VOTE: Garmr

P-edit:

Yeah this was the right vote.

But you've already heard that story. Let's hear a new one, shall we?
This is the case of Elyse v Aneninen

Spoiler:

I don't like Anen's 233. There are a bunch of random comments that don't go anywhere, followed by an easy vote on Kling.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aneninen

VOTE: Klingoncelt

What made the vote on Klingon no longer an easy vote?
These VERY scummy posts right here:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Klingoncelt.
While I am scumreading them, regardless of their alignment, I think Celty is sour for this:

FoS: Passionate Storm

I'm not sure if what you're doing is D1 silliness or if you're both drunken Scum.

I'm going to go make a pot of coffee now, looks like it's going to be a long night.

There is no reason for an FoS, least of all when you have yet to cast a vote, at this stage in the game.

It's kind of a long story, starting with Titus and myself both being the types that get voted of Day 1, and ending with the Neighborhood from Hell, from which the grey/green spazhydra crawled out of a brown acid rabbit hole game Varsoon ran.

I can drop a vote on Jeanne in a New York minute, but it's very hard for me to vote for Titus on Day1. Don't worry, I'll get around to it.

FoS: Passionate Storm

I'm not sure if what you're doing is D1 silliness or if you're both drunken Scum.

I'm going to go make a pot of coffee now, looks like it's going to be a long night.

look at this post guys and tell me it isn't a mobster trying to look like a regular person?

Both of you have a talent for reading me wrong.

A man is no one.

please don't tell me you are going to talk like this the whole game.

Oh yes, he's going to talk like this the whole game. He always does.

@AJ
Why are you townreading Alchemist? I've found his few posts scummy.

And yeah Kling deserves votes but parking a vote on him now is fruitless since he hasn't posted since his FoS.

She.

I post evenings/late night. 'Tis the season when I'm busy as hell with holiday crap, so I won't be in any thread for very long.

These are the only Klingon posts between Elyse's change of heart. Well, those, and a few votes. But we'll get to those in the next section

Elyse jumps wagons like opportunistic scum

Here is every time Elyse has voted and the votes on that person already when she voted:
Votes before first vote:

None on garmr.

VOTE: Garmr

But we already went over why that was really scummy.
Vote count before next post

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(3): Aunt Jemina, Spifflop, Aneninen

Shiro

(2): Varsoon, My Other Head Is Scum

Aneninen

(2): Passionate Storm, T S O

Spider Gwen

(2): Alchemist21, inte

Extrapolated Eagle

(2): Garmr, I Am Innocent

Garmr

(1): Elyse

Errantparabola

(1): randomidget

Spifflop

(1): grapes

itlepip

(1): Errantparabola

Passionate Storm

(1): Spider Gwen,

Not Voting

(7): Klingoncelt, TheWayItEnds, PeregrineV, Extrapolated Eagle, Dapper Stranger, Shiro,itlepip

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

VOTE: alliterated bird

This vote is

NOT

being accepted as no player close to this name is in the game.

Please use correct names, or at least something remotely resembling the person you are voting for.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aneninen

2 votes on him already. And we already went over the other reason this is scummy

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Let's look at the votes on me prior to this:

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(3): Aunt Jemina, Spifflop, Aneninen

Shiro

(2): Varsoon, My Other Head Is Scum

Aneninen

(2): Passionate Storm, T S O

Spider Gwen

(2): Alchemist21, inte

Extrapolated Eagle

(2): Garmr, I Am Innocent

Garmr

(1): Elyse

Errantparabola

(1): randomidget

Spifflop

(1): grapes

itlepip

(1): Errantparabola

Passionate Storm

(1): Spider Gwen,

Not Voting

(7): Klingoncelt, TheWayItEnds, PeregrineV, Extrapolated Eagle, Dapper Stranger, Shiro,itlepip

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

VOTE: alliterated bird

This vote is

NOT

being accepted as no player close to this name is in the game.

Please use correct names, or at least something remotely resembling the person you are voting for.

Sorry VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

So I'm now the largest wagon in the pack

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Votes before:

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count

Extrapolated Eagle

(4): Garmr, I Am Innocent, itlepip, Elyse

Aneninen

(3): Passionate Storm, T S O, Alchemist21

Spider Gwen

(3): inte, randomidget, Dapper Stranger

Shiro

(2): My Other Head Is Scum, Varsoon

Klingoncelt

(2): Aunt Jemina, Aneninen

grapes

(2): Spider Gwen, Spifflop

Aunt Jemina

(1): PeregrineV

Elyse

(1): Extrapolated Eagle

Spifflop

(1): grapes

itlepip

(1): Errantparabola

Not Voting

(3): Klingoncelt, Shiro, TheWayItEnds

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline

(expired on 2015-12-27 17:09:57)

Hmm, two already. Also went over why this is scummy already

@Garmr
Your points are good. I would join you on EE but it doesn't seem to have enough support today because yeah people think he's town and it's annoying.

Just wanted to add this in here because it emphasizes my point

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Votes:

Spoiler:

VOTE: eagle

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(5): Aunt Jemina, Aneninen, Elyse, Passionate Storm, itlepip

grapes

(4): Spider Gwen, Spifflop, Errantparabola, Shiro

Spider Gwen

(3): inte, randomidget, Dapper Stranger

Shiro

(2): My Other Head Is Scum, Varsoon

Aneninen

(2): T S O, Alchemist21

Passionate Storm

(1): Klingoncelt

Aunt Jemina

(1): PeregrineV

Extrapolated Eagle

(1): Garmr

Errantparabola

(1): I Am Innocent

Elyse

(1): Extrapolated Eagle

Spifflop

(1): grapes

Not Voting

(1): TheWayItEnds

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline

(expired on 2015-12-27 17:09:57)

4 on me again. But there's at least three people on that wagon before she joins it again

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Klingoncelt

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(5): Aunt Jemina, Aneninen, Elyse, Passionate Storm, itlepip

grapes

(4): Spider Gwen, Spifflop, Errantparabola, Shiro

Spider Gwen

(3): inte, randomidget, Dapper Stranger

Shiro

(2): My Other Head Is Scum, Varsoon

Aneninen

(2): T S O, Alchemist21

Passionate Storm

(1): Klingoncelt

Aunt Jemina

(1): PeregrineV

Extrapolated Eagle

(1): Garmr

Errantparabola

(1): I Am Innocent

Elyse

(1): Extrapolated Eagle

Spifflop

(1): grapes

Not Voting

(1): TheWayItEnds

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline

(expired on 2015-12-27 17:09:57)

3 votes total for miss Klingon.
Elyse doesn't stick on a single wagon for two long she justice santé someone lynched



So we're at the end of the post now, eagle, does this mean this is all the reasons she's scum?

No! Of course not. Some of these things are just harder to quote or have been said like a million times already. But if you actually read this far and you're still interested in why Elyse is scum, I would love to point you to my other posts/ even discuss it with you

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You guys are actually metaing her after four games? Well done.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

Vote Elyse please

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@708, you are the quintessential showman. Your bluster reminds me of me. Being a showman doesn't hide the weaknesses in your case.

I knew you would say that, actually. It's part of why I'm town reading you.

First, your implication is that people cannot divine reads from the comments people make. A wall is not required.

I meant to imply that people have already picked someone to focus and autoskim most of the comments coming from everyone else. Especially if said people already believe the person is town early on. The wall is meant to bring this to light.

Second, your prediction match is not helpful. If you set yourself up to be lynchbait, you expect both alignments to vote you. Also, if you're scum it's a built in defense. There are very few times where wagonning yourself is good. If you do it, you must either confirm yourself or have a game breaking strategy in mind. You have neither.

Not smsrtscum like Elyse said she is. I expected mostly town to vote me at first, because it's too easy to jump lynch bait early in the game and anyone who's worth their weight as scum knows that it isn't going anywhere. Better to get points out of it.

If you disagree with this particular point, that's fine, it's more theory based and it's mostly a reason for me because I don't particularly expect anyone else to believe it. After the game when Elyse has flipped I think would be a better time to discuss the accuracy of this theory.

Third, if Elyse is opportunistic scum, why doesn't she pick a wagon? Vote parking is how to get people lynched.

Partially. But stale wagons fade as people with parked votes forget them and park elsewhere. Swapping votes around like crazy makes wagons look like they're continuing to grow.

Your "case" doesn't fly.

Talk to me more about why. Or even just the case itself. Can we talk about her lack of follow-up on anyone even though she scum reads aneninen for the same thing?

Or the fact that she doesn't press her reads very much? She poops a vote with a reason and moves on often.

Talk to me about Klingon or vote her.

Interesting, but not scum, I don't think. The fos explanation makes sense, she was taking it slower to read people better. The other end of this is that it means she has to read people. Unfortunately her reads seem kind of OMGUS-y and not too in depth, but a lot of the time that's how town reacts under pressure, imo. Elyse's OMGUS was different, it was an over the top AtE OMGUS that she recognized in order to keep other people from getting a foothold on her. I don't like how long it's taking klingy to catch up in the thread or come up with reads, but I'm also not at all excited about the way she's being hounded by spifflop. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

Vote Elyse please

We have a winner!

Vote: Elyse

Exciting!

I should probably make my way through the 20+ pages, and I think I will, but for now I'm selling my vote to the first person to request it. Be like a jump start, perhaps.

I request you to vote Klingoncelt.

Birds of Prey for the win.

Hmmm, a counterproposal.

I'll start reading with these.

Ok, I look forward to it.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Somewhat disappointed that my catchup completely slipped under the radar. Does anyone have anything to say about it?
I'll respond to the last 4 pages when I have some more time as well.

I saw and I didn't like your reasoning for voting me if it is what I interpreted it to be: "not sure about the other wagons, so I'll pick this one"

Also the picking one point to dismiss in an argument is really silly if you don't address the whole thing, unless you were conceding the other points in said argument. Confbias is a particularly bad reason because it implies I'm stretching to find points- you would have to kind of respond to all the other points to claim the last one is just confbias.

I'm plenty willing to reason with anyone who's willing to reason with me, with the exception of Elyse- I don't reason with scum.

I promise to fully consider any arguments in defense of Elyse for anyone who is willing to do the same for me. If you can convince me that Elyse is scum (AND I am not set on this idea emotionally, so good reasoning will get to me, I one hundred percent promise to take a step back and realize that I'm wrong if anyone wants to work with me.

I have to say though, thinking wise, I doubt anyone really wants to work with me on this. I have reread the thread at least once a day every day with focus on Elyse in an attempt to prove me wrong, because I have no intention of pushing a wagon on town, but every day I find new things.

I have to truthfully and honestly say I would be delighted for someone to show interest in my case or to continue interest in it. *nods to miss storm* thank you, by the way for st least reading and responding to my most recent case. It made my day.

Anyways. That's my stance

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Interesting, but not scum, I don't think. The fos explanation makes sense, she was taking it slower to read people better. The other end of this is that it means she has to read people. Unfortunately her reads seem kind of OMGUS-y and not too in depth, but a lot of the time that's how town reacts under pressure, imo. Elyse's OMGUS was different, it was an over the top AtE OMGUS that she recognized in order to keep other people from getting a foothold on her. I don't like how long it's taking klingy to catch up in the thread or come up with reads, but I'm also not at all excited about the way she's being hounded by spifflop. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

1). In the early game a vote has so little value that FoS is like being worried about using a feather to hit someone so you use lint. And that is your only defense of Kling in this paragraph...

I think it's more a matter of empathy/an inside joke than an actual problem dealing with the game and alignment.

Sorry of a recognition of the fact that Klingon read Titus as being scummy but understood that that happened in the past to both of them and telling Titus she would give her more time before she made up her mind due to being under that kind of pressure before and hating it.

If this is true then there is quite a bit of irony to the situation, Klingon saw Titus as scum but have Grace hating the extra pressure she got and in return Titus put the pressure on Klingon.

It is the largest defense of Klingon because it defends the cornerstone of the argument against her.

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

That's true and I will relinquish that her argument in that post was perhaps a bit better than my own, but I do not believe the argument against her is truly defined by her ability to respond and act and wave off accusations, because these are the things, I think, that make scum more often than town

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@itlepip
I had to sort of cut my answer short since I have to leave for work now but I will respond more fully when I get home

@hiplop yes, I will get to this the moment I get a chance, I've been waiting for someone to ask this question

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think it's more a matter of empathy/an inside joke than an actual problem dealing with the game and alignment.

Sorry of a recognition of the fact that Klingon read Titus as being scummy but understood that that happened in the past to both of them and telling Titus she would give her more time before she made up her mind due to being under that kind of pressure before and hating it.

If this is true then there is quite a bit of irony to the situation, Klingon saw Titus as scum but have Grace hating the extra pressure she got and in return Titus put the pressure on Klingon.

It is the largest defense of Klingon because it defends the cornerstone of the argument against her.

To add onto and clarify this, itlepip, I think Klingon is being scummy, but not necessarily for the reasons brought against her. I think the fos might have been genuine, but addressing the posts she addressed instead of the main stuff and not sharing really any reads /not scumhunting, that's scummy.

That said, it's not really scummy enough for me to want to lynch her over Elyse, and her things can be explained by misunderstandings, quirkiness, mistakes. They're small and repetitive, something scum is rarely guilty of, in my experience.

Anyways, that's my thoughts on her.

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

That's true and I will relinquish that her argument in that post was perhaps a bit better than my own, but I do not believe the argument against her is truly defined by her ability to respond and act and wave off accusations, because these are the things, I think, that make scum more often than town

To add to this part, misrepping as town is something that's often going to happen. Peoplemake mistakes, especially when they can't see all the answers. Misunderstandings happen. However, that post in no way represents my entire argument against Elyse, and making it seem less /trying to take the legs out from under it. Like I said, I am constantly reevaluating my read on Elyse and constantly finding new things against her. I'm not seeing many truly protown posts from her, and to be honest, not many attempts at it either.

. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

stuff like this bothers me though. You don't get to dictate where the lynch goes. And delaying a lynch is almost always a scum-thing, seriously.

Sorry, I should restate: I don't have a problem with people voting Klingon. The story could definitely go that she's scum. However the other side of the story is still plausible enough to me to not want to vote her yet. And I don't see scum motivation behind her posts. The posts merely seen scummy in and of themselves instead of telling a story. So I would prefer for the lynch to be Elyse today over anyone else, but you're right, I don't have the power to make everyone vote for her.

Eagle, I think your case is solid. I've read it over 3 times. I'm not sure what the scum motivation is? Can you explain WHY she do those strange things?

Staying away from being the first one on the wagon is something scum will do just to avoid the largest amount of scrutiny that the first and last people often come under on a mislynch

Votes hopping is a good way to keep the attention and votes stacking on people. It's part of a bandwagon effect. You see a lot of voting for one person, you assume the crowd is right and you'll vote for someone. A single vote has a hard time getting off the ground but two votes put it in motion. Finally, it makes it seem like the wagons aren't going stale, because you keep seeing votes for Klingon and votes for me, people who skim see us as coming under a lot of pressure/think we're getting voted and then bandwagon effect makes them think that if there are a lot of people doing it, then it must be right. I feel like this could have been more succinctly worded, but if I didn't get the message across let me know and I'll try to clear it up

Not pushing votes does two things
1. Similarly to avoiding being first and last on a wagon, the fact that when people come back to see why this person was lynched when they were town, they look, see no push coming out of Elyse, and all of a sudden she's town because she was just sheeping.
2. It keeps people from responding with too much serious content, pushing to the point where it becomes obvious person is town. To the point where they release their feelings under frustration and then it's one more nk they have to perform because they have a hard time pushing that lynch
3. It makes her look active and involved, when she's really kind of sidelining.

The mediocrity is her not blatantly making friends or enemies because it could convict/vingtième them later if for some reason she flips, or make her look suspicious if they flip. Notice how kind she is to Gwen when she scum reads her?

The not sharing reads let's her vote hop like mad or say whatever she wants/needs about someone, when she wants/needs to say it. No one can convict her of contradicting herself when there isn't anything there to contradict. Also goes back kind of to the mediocrity thing- how are you going to search for buddies if she didn't explicitly read anyone as not scum/defend anyone. Notice how she shares one mild town read here and another one there so they're very spread apart and can be hard to find, and even if you did she could always say it changed because they're so far apart


The avoiding lynch bait is a good way to get town cred for looking like you defended someone and stuck your neck out for them when you did not. This isn't necessarily scummy, but voting someone on the wagon without actually town reading the lynchbait is. She went to an extreme (voting) to share her opinion that it is lynch bait without actually having that town read of the lynch bait itself.
This is all the things I can think of right now, but be sure to let me know if I missed one or two and I'll actually go back and make sure I got em all in a minute

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I think it's more a matter of empathy/an inside joke than an actual problem dealing with the game and alignment.

Sorry of a recognition of the fact that Klingon read Titus as being scummy but understood that that happened in the past to both of them and telling Titus she would give her more time before she made up her mind due to being under that kind of pressure before and hating it.

If this is true then there is quite a bit of irony to the situation, Klingon saw Titus as scum but have Grace hating the extra pressure she got and in return Titus put the pressure on Klingon.

It is the largest defense of Klingon because it defends the cornerstone of the argument against her.

To add onto and clarify this, itlepip, I think Klingon is being scummy, but not necessarily for the reasons brought against her. I think the fos might have been genuine, but addressing the posts she addressed instead of the main stuff and not sharing really any reads /not scumhunting, that's scummy.

That said, it's not really scummy enough for me to want to lynch her over Elyse, and her things can be explained by misunderstandings, quirkiness, mistakes. They're small and repetitive, something scum is rarely guilty of, in my experience.

Anyways, that's my thoughts on her.

@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me

I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted 273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.

That's true and I will relinquish that her argument in that post was perhaps a bit better than my own, but I do not believe the argument against her is truly defined by her ability to respond and act and wave off accusations, because these are the things, I think, that make scum more often than town

To add to this part, misrepping as town is something that's often going to happen. Peoplemake mistakes, especially when they can't see all the answers. Misunderstandings happen. However, that post in no way represents my entire argument against Elyse, and making it seem less /trying to take the legs out from under it. Like I said, I am constantly reevaluating my read on Elyse and constantly finding new things against her. I'm not seeing many truly protown posts from her, and to be honest, not many attempts at it either.

. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

stuff like this bothers me though. You don't get to dictate where the lynch goes. And delaying a lynch is almost always a scum-thing, seriously.

Sorry, I should restate: I don't have a problem with people voting Klingon. The story could definitely go that she's scum. However the other side of the story is still plausible enough to me to not want to vote her yet. And I don't see scum motivation behind her posts. The posts merely seen scummy in and of themselves instead of telling a story. So I would prefer for the lynch to be Elyse today over anyone else, but you're right, I don't have the power to make everyone vote for her.

Eagle, I think your case is solid. I've read it over 3 times. I'm not sure what the scum motivation is? Can you explain WHY she do those strange things?

Staying away from being the first one on the wagon is something scum will do just to avoid the largest amount of scrutiny that the first and last people often come under on a mislynch

Votes hopping is a good way to keep the attention and votes stacking on people. It's part of a bandwagon effect. You see a lot of voting for one person, you assume the crowd is right and you'll vote for someone. A single vote has a hard time getting off the ground but two votes put it in motion. Finally, it makes it seem like the wagons aren't going stale, because you keep seeing votes for Klingon and votes for me, people who skim see us as coming under a lot of pressure/think we're getting voted and then bandwagon effect makes them think that if there are a lot of people doing it, then it must be right. I feel like this could have been more succinctly worded, but if I didn't get the message across let me know and I'll try to clear it up

Not pushing votes does two things
1. Similarly to avoiding being first and last on a wagon, the fact that when people come back to see why this person was lynched when they were town, they look, see no push coming out of Elyse, and all of a sudden she's town because she was just sheeping.
2. It keeps people from responding with too much serious content, pushing to the point where it becomes obvious person is town. To the point where they release their feelings under frustration and then it's one more nk they have to perform because they have a hard time pushing that lynch
3. It makes her look active and involved, when she's really kind of sidelining.

The mediocrity is her not blatantly making friends or enemies because it could convict/vingtième them later if for some reason she flips, or make her look suspicious if they flip. Notice how kind she is to Gwen when she scum reads her?

The not sharing reads let's her vote hop like mad or say whatever she wants/needs about someone, when she wants/needs to say it. No one can convict her of contradicting herself when there isn't anything there to contradict. Also goes back kind of to the mediocrity thing- how are you going to search for buddies if she didn't explicitly read anyone as not scum/defend anyone. Notice how she shares one mild town read here and another one there so they're very spread apart and can be hard to find, and even if you did she could always say it changed because they're so far apart


The avoiding lynch bait is a good way to get town cred for looking like you defended someone and stuck your neck out for them when you did not. This isn't necessarily scummy, but voting someone on the wagon without actually town reading the lynchbait is. She went to an extreme (voting) to share her opinion that it is lynch bait without actually having that town read of the lynch bait itself.
This is all the things I can think of right now, but be sure to let me know if I missed one or two and I'll actually go back and make sure I got em all in a minute



----
Ebwop

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm also slightly concerned how you openly state you refuse to interact with your scumreads. Just because you're confident that someeone is scum doesn't mean the rest of us are. So interacting would be a help.

Ok, I'm certain Elyse is scum. In my opinion interacting with her at this point in time will determine me from the task of making sure she is lynched, and I highly doubt that she will say anything that will make me reconsider. The things she could be doing to make me reconsider are all things she would be less likely to do while we're arguing over it.

p-edit looked quickly at your recent post and it looks like some of my questions might be answered there. Will respond to that, but for now Eagle, you ain't lookin' too bad. I think I might want to try and reevaluate you because I see you coming up with some decent content.
I see me in the future being less confident with any possible scummy thing you might do actually coming from a scum slot because I've convinced myself otherwise twice now, and I'm getting closer to thinking it might be something akin to playstyle

UNVOTE:

Thanks, I tried, haha. What can I say, I like to live on edge.

@Extrapolated Eagle, I like the effort your putting into this, but I can gurantee you will get burned out pretty quickly at this if you try to keep that amount for whole game. The game speed for this is much different than a blitz. Its more casual game.

I like you man, don't get burned out.

-Fire

gj on proving this wrong eagle lol

Not completely, I had to drop the role play stuff (it was annoying people anyways) and I wasn't even really able to finish my "reasons Elyse is scum" all the way this morning because I was doubting people would actually read all of it and I was so discouraged. But thanks anyways, I'm still going pretty strong And tomorrow maybe I'll finish a whole reads list (there are just so many people, lol)

[Extrapolated Eagle]

1. I've seen scum start wagons, scum hammer, scum sheep. I've also seen town do all these things. Sheeping doesn't equal town and I think that most people know that. From what I see, Elyse has been actually making poitns on here reads and that makes her accountable for them.
2. Not understanding number 2, can you explain
3. I also don't really see Elyse sidelining, could you point me to some things you've said about this?

Eagle I really honestly appreciate the effort you've put into this game. Doesn't make you town or scum, but I respect it none the less and I'm interesting in hearing your response to this.

1. True she makes points, but she doesnt really push them, if you know what I mean. Enough to be noticed and not sheeping, but even when she says "balls to the wall eagle lynch" she makes no case against me. She doesn't actually make a case against anyone. And while scum will do these things, it's often not optimal and brings scum in the limelight. Imo scum like to stay in the background until there's few enough people that people start really noticing inactivity and lynching it.
2. You push someone/ put them under a lot of pressure they sometimes OMGUS or AtE in a way that makes them look town (because if you're scum pushing the wagon, they often are) and then the wagon dissolves and you have to build up momentum again, something scum don't want to be doing in the first place. The other part of it is people who push are often put in the spotlight by the one they push in order to try and make their case seem invalid by invalidating the person themselves.
3. Sorry, I said sidelining, I meant to try to say she isn't pushing in another way.

But here check this out:
Klingon is under pressure. Passionate Storm makes a couple posts about how scummy she is, and what does Elyse say when one of her prime scum reads that she wants lynched over Gwen? "Ditto to passionate storm" now she may have those thoughts all on her own, but this way, when kling OMGUS votes passionate storm, what does she say about Elyse? "Need to reread." Now I don't know about you but for me when I'm OMGUS ing I try to get all my aggressors, because that way maybe they'll back off. But Klingon didn't even feel the push. Which means it wasn't really there

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You are doing great. I'm still in the enthusiastic noob phase and I am much more reserved than you. One suggestion in general is try to work towards tighter arguments, they are easier to read and are much more convincing, but that takes time.

I see your gut read about klingon, but at Elyse has given her reads. Kling has done nothing, and most of your read seems to be empathy based instead of looking at motives, which is dangerous.

Haha, thanks. I know I have a hard time with that, I think best out loud about some things, particularly how to deal with people, which often caused me to get mislynched off of misunderstandings. Still does a little bit, but I've learned to kind of talk to myself a little bit.

Elyse actually hasn't given her reads. She may read one or two people scum, or have said something about them at the beginning of the game, but there's no list, no cases against anyone and very few reads except her scum read.

No that's the reason against the fos being scummy. Klingon seems like an emotional person which would explain her fos in the way emotions relate to empathy. It also explains her OMGUS. But for the rest of it, like I said earlier, while her individual posts are scummy, they're often only scummy in and of themselves and don't tell the story of scum. Town makes scummy posts, partially because thyley don't know enough to avoid it. But all of this says she is nowhere near scummy enough to be lynchable over Elyse right now, which is where I intend to spend my energy, not defending Klingon when I'm not sure she's town, either

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So in other words, what you and errant are doing with Eagle?

I get that you guys don't want to discourage the tryhard newb and I'd probably be right along with you if he didn't irritate me so much. However, that doesn't mean his arguments are correct.

I love how you imply my arguments are incorrect without stating it so you don't have to defend yourself.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Also get out, Elyse. We're legitimately trying to find scum here. You wouldn't want to impede town from finding scum, would you?

Pedit: I doubt she's talking about that post.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yeah I know your read on him isn't because he's new. I was talking more about the validity of his arguments. Sorry I wasn't clear.

I'm sorry, but this is actually a lie.

I see your gut read about klingon, but at Elyse has given her reads. Kling has done nothing,

and most of your read seems to be empathy based instead of looking at motives, which is dangerous

.

So in other words, what you and errant are doing with Eagle?

You're accusing them of reading me as town because they feel for me. Not questioning my argument or their validity.

By the way, I am not reading Klingon as town because I feel for her or because of my empathy towards her, it's because of perceived empathy from her to Titus.

I get that you guys don't want to discourage the tryhard newb and I'd probably be right along with you if he didn't irritate me so much.

Right there with them doing what? Town reading me? So your scum read on me is because I IRRITATE you? That's rather ridiculous, don't you think?

And I irritate you intentionally dear. If you're frustrated with me you'll stay away from doing crap like the shit you're trying to pull now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And I irritate you intentionally dear. If you're frustrated with me you'll stay away from doing crap like the shit you're trying to pull now.

Nothing against you personally. I have to do something to keep the scummies away

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You just misrepped everything I said. This is why I don't respond to you.

let's keep it that way, shall we? Why you keep getting involved with me and my discussions when we're talking about wy you're scummy is another mark against you being scum.

I also didn't misrepresent you. But you've lied/said something that was untrue and then excused it by saying I'm difficult to talk to.

To me the situation is easily solvable. Don't respond to me and let me lynch you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And one hundred percent honest Elyse, because I feel kinda bad for this: I'm being difficult to work with PURELY to get you to stop trying to mess up my hard work. Or distract from it. I guess a small part of it is frustration that you do keep trying to mess up my stuff, but the large reason is what I have already brought up. I want to specifically point out that this is nothing against you as a person, and if I believed you were town, I would be 100% more willing to work with you.

I say this because while I do want to keep you temporarily frustrated so you stay away, I want to avoid post-game hard feelings if possible.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And even with that, this minor argument we've had has already set back some of the work I've done, I think. Neither Mr parabola nor itlepip is responding anymore, so maybe I just can't win.

It's just so frustrating trying to get places without getting messed up by you scumterupting.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

let's keep it that way, shall we? Why you keep getting involved with me and my discussions when we're talking about wy you're scummy is another mark against you being scum.

What the actual fuck is this?

~Spiffy

A very poorly worded sentence that's attempting to say that the fact that she keeps getting in my way when I start getting anywhere is scummy.

And a question that requests she continue not responding to me for now until she's lynched

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You're just trying to find anything to paint her in a scummy light at this point. So you're saying that it's scummy of her to respond to your case?

PEdit: How can she get in the way?
You can still make posts. My point still stands.

~Spiffy

No. She is plenty capable of responding to my case and she has chosen not too. Instead she lies and shares untruths which I have to go out of my way to respond to or risk losing the very few people I have because she posts something eye-catching or distracting.

I am also trying to have a discussion with other people over their read of her. You know, or should know, for a fact that solid arguments do not win games, spiffy, it's who can get the most attention and direct it to the place that wins the game for them. So getting people to take the time to read my arguments is really hard when she does shot like that. She actually accused them of pretending to listen (I believe) to make me feel better about myself. How on EARTH is that anywhere ducking near responding to my argument s? Nowhere. It's nowhere near it and the fact that you defended that piece of craps post makes me so angry.

And even with that, this minor argument we've had has already set back some of the work I've done, I think. Neither Mr parabola nor itlepip is responding anymore, so maybe I just can't win.

It's just so frustrating trying to get places without getting messed up by you scumterupting.

I had RL stuff to do. My point is that do Klingon's posts really do anything for you, they are all neck deep in meta that only Titus knows. Since that is her only defense and its not convincing Titus \_(ツ)_/. She isn't doing anything to move town forward.

So for clarification, you're saying we should sheep Titus because she has more experience with one of the players than the rest of us? Because I don't agree with that.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yeah Klingon is def. scum everyone please wagon with reckless abandon.

~Spiffy

And this is proof that her interrupting can mess everything up.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

EE interrupting has absolutely nothing to do with what is happening. There's no such thing as interrupting in a forum mafia game. Nothing anyone else posts should prevent someone from saying something.

~Spiffy

It can distract however, and do so quite effectively.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm not at all interested in discussing anything with anyone who is not open to discussion and opinion change when on the topic of mafia.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Itlepip if your problem is no reads, get on inte or peregrine or Shiro or Elyse or almost any of the lurkers here. Not posting reads three days into day one isn't a good reason to scum read someone

@Titus not interested in debating Elyse's alignment? That's something I'm very certain that once you got into you would stay interested in as town. Want to explain this part to me? Just want to focus Klingon, or?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm not at all interested in discussing anything with anyone who is not open to discussion and opinion change when on the topic of mafia.

You are the one who seems not open to change. You aren't event even responding to Klingon's posts here.

And you're not responding to mine. Your point? What's changing? People are getting a town read on Klingon cuz she posted a legitimate set of reads? Ok, I called it. Let's move on. I responded, in my opinion, quite fully, to the cases against Klingon and I think that shows that I've been paying attention and I also believe that I'm justified in my lack of vote against her- I'm not convinced she's scum.if you would like to respond to tell me why I'm wrong I would love to discuss as long as you discuss Elyse with me, and if you can cause me to believe she is more worthy of a lynch than Elyse, than I'll vote her.

However, you didn't even fully respond to my case against Elyse, and you have been tunneling poor Klingon for forever and the fact that you're now ignoring Elyse makes me doubt my town read on you and more certain of my town read on Klingon. I am one hundred percent open to change bit like I said before it will take work, something I haven't seen you put forth much at all. You pay attention when it suits you and you're also gone at quite convenient times. If I wasn't targetting Elyse right now I would be taking a MUCH closer look at you, but she's scummier and flies farther under the radar, so she's more dangerous. I'm also more fully convinced she's scum

[Extrapolated Eagle]

The difference is that they haven't made posts like 'fast wagons are made by scum' that are complete BS.

You think that fast wagons aren't often made by scum? Because I think that often enough they are. And the fact that she's claiming this makes me think she's town because why? Because she automatically assumes the leaders of her wagon are scum because she's town and thinks she's intentionally getting mislynched. Because as a mafia players, you don't automatically OMGUS people voting you, you distract or ignore or don't respond, like Elyse is doing. You find elsewhere. You stay out of the thread long enough that people bore of you and find something else eye-catching and then you come back and talk about how scummy that eye-catching thing is.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@EE - 799

First, who doyou believe is town reading Klingon due to her reads? Her reads are in 790. All posts after that say lynch her. Why do you believe her reads are legit? I don't see you having a rational posting here but having conclusions and fitting your beliefs to them.

As for Elyse, you should be able to summarize what is important in a paragraph or two. I can ask you what posts support which statements.

1. I believe it is possible Klingon's explanation for her RVS is relevant.
2. Her lack of reads is one hundred percent justifiable by the fact that she is being hounded for them consistently.

I am surprised to see you scum read and tunnel her so hard. It actually shocks me to think that you might fo this as town. I am quite tempted to vote for you right now, but even you, I don't think, are as worthy of a lynch as Elyse is as you showed when you indirectly defended her by taking the argument I made, attempting to defeat rather than discuss it (although I foolishly hoped for the latter) which shows you are willing to read my arguments, by the way, and then come and do this the way you're doing it right now.

No, I shouldnt read you out of my personal emotions, that's how I screw things up, but I lost my town read on you the moment you refused to respond to my rebuttal.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Starting to think EE is a Klingon scumbuddy.

~Spiffy

Reads can change so fast when they oppose your strongly held opinions, can't they?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Actually answer my questions and include the post for the rebuttal and I will answer.

I like negotiating with you, you know that?

@EE - 799

First, who doyou believe is town reading Klingon due to her reads? Her reads are in 790. All posts after that say lynch her. Why do you believe her reads are legit? I don't see you having a rational posting here but having conclusions and fitting your beliefs to them.

As for Elyse, you should be able to summarize what is important in a paragraph or two. I can ask you what posts support which statements.

1. I don't see any posts that actually changed, although I expected it, so that was a poor assumption on my part. Knowing she had

something

at least strengthened my read of her.

2. I don't know. At first glance they looked legit, I saw them in my PEdit. But I looked at them again and they look like she literally just iso'd everyone and picked what stood out. I am starting to think she's more likely to be scum. I'm still not more interested in her than I am in Elyse. She is FAR more dangerous.

My rebuttal post is 716

[Extrapolated Eagle]

This isn't a negotiation.

1. You stated your expectation as if it actually occurred.

2. Your analysis on Klingon was shaken after being confronted with facts. Can you bullet point your other reservations?

3. I still would like Jeanne to talk with you on Elyse. I like the fact she disagrees (I feel like I am dominating the hydra). She'd gain more on how to work with people, possibly articulate her Elyse read. Doubly so if I disagree on Elyse.

4. Reading 716 now.

If you say so. Are you implying you would have responded to my rebuttal regardless? No, that question isn't worth either of our time.

1. Correct.

2. Correction, I was shaken when reading through a particular post of hers.

3. Hmm. If? You haven't yet considered her?

4. Excellent.

5. Why are you being aggressive? Talk with me, not at me. If you're town we're on the same team. Why would you fight with someone you're trying to persuade?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

1) Why would you know that I would feel you were like me? Are you artificially emulating me?

2) This doesn't respond to the point I raised.

3) Your theory sucks. You need to stop theory crafting and just explain why something is scummy until you have played awhile. My most successful self wagon did not come until years in.

4) Your wagon hopping theory is wrong.

5) I am seeing plenty of followup. Followup doesn't mean tunnel.

6) We'r talking about Klingon.

1. Because you're suspicious when you don't need to be, you're singularly focused on taking out a certain person based on the belief that said person is scum, your people skills need work, you appear easy to mislynch, I imagine that happened a lot when you started, you like to dominate things and keep control of the situation, and you seem to enjoy shutting people down, perhaps even when you shouldn't. It also appears from your interaction with Klingon that you are emotionally attached to this game and everything in your way/distracting you from this is scum.

All things that can be used to describe me as well. This is my rebuttal. I am no alt, I am no attempt to imitate, I am a one hundred percent genuine human being that's perhaps a bit overconfident and a little too friendly to the point where I make friends by pretending with strangers that I've known them a very long time.

I am in no way here just for you, although you seem incredibly suspicious of me, and I'm not really certain why unless you see all the reasons we're alike, too.

My analysis of you as a person was my response to this rebuttal for now, I'll take a step back, detach myself emotionally and try to look at it again tomorrow.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

0. Yes. I just haven't been reading your wall fight because I don't want deal with pedantic things while sick.

1. Why did you feel emulating me was a good idea?

2. OK.

3. Vague pronoun use.

4. Done.

5. You should know this from my games.

0. Still not worth either of our time. But worth adding to the list: has to get the last word

1. Not emulating you.

2. Ok.

3. You haven't considered Elyse as scum yet

4. Thanks.

5. Question is rhetorical. Don't fight me when you're trying to work with me.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

1. I am focusing on lynching actual scum with my townreads.

Excellent. As am I.

You should read Sudoken.

Will do.

My people skills need work because I am not the type to let people make dumb decisions.

Similar reasoning.

I am trying to be friendlier as town. You should see that as a difference.

Actually, I see it as a similarity. I'm not about to be kind to the ridiculousness that is the attempt at my mislynch. Garmrs read of me is silly.

I don't enjoy shutting people down.

Perhaps worded poorly. You enjoy trying to shut down arguments you believe are dumb.

I do see us as very alike on many levels but you are newer. Reading me I am told is hard. I suppose it's time I get a dose of my own medicine.

I think I could read you well enough if I cared past getting the Elyse wagon off the ground for now. Work that I'm going to have to practically start over on since I lost it tonight when I let loose.

3. I have ruled out Elyse as scum and I see little to change my mind.

I won't worry about trying to convince you anymore today, then

[Extrapolated Eagle]

This is your nightly reminder that Elyse is scum.

Brought to you by Eagle. Vote Elyse for scum today.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Since the Lady of Syrup is a bit soured on a man, then she should be seeing she can at least weigh a man's thoughts evenly given the nature of her reads as compared to reality of a man's alignment...if not then with a bit of humor look at this abstract:

Given: a man is town, thus his actions are flowing accordingly


SCENARIO

Elly is facing the flame and is sweating most profusely.

Spitflop, like everyone else, is knowing this is just so.

Spitflop is taking the opportunity to derail any attention from Elly onto Celty.


HYPOTHESIS

This is pinging opportunistic in a man's mind.

If Lord Spit's scum, he's hoping Elly will swallow and they are becoming the best of buddies even though if this as well is just so, Celty is likely mislynch material. If a man is building a sufficiently clear case of early game scummotivation, then a Spifflop lynch today is superior to either lady because if Spit flipping scum reasonably town clears both.

----------------------

If you are following that LOGIC (disregarding your personal reads, just the logic), would you agree proving Spitflop scum is clearing Celty in whole and soft clearing Elly at the same time? If so and if a man is just so in his evaluation will a lady work with a man for a day?

Is this question for all, or merely aj?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

A man is looking for AJ's thoughts in particular but what is this one's take?

I think spifflop could just be town set on the lynch of Klingon.

I also need to go back because I didn't see it as outright buddying of Elyse, so if this is true they could be scum together, but I need to look at this second part again because it could just be me wanting Elyse to be scum after all the work I've put into getting her lynched

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright,

Are you claiming Town Doctor or are you talking about your role in Twilight Zone?

And if you think Titus is playing like she did in Twilight Zone you wouldn't be scum reading her because she was town in that game.

~Spiffy

That^ sounds like it might come from town being dumb and pushing town way too hard.

. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

stuff like this bothers me though. You don't get to dictate where the lynch goes. And delaying a lynch is almost always a scum-thing, seriously.

Eagle, I think your case is solid. I've read it over 3 times. I'm not sure what the scum motivation is? Can you explain WHY she do those strange things?

But this is actually strange. Kind of. I mean part one seems like it could be town set hopelessly on a lynch on Klingon, but the attitude shift to part 2 is particularly strange. I'd expect one or the other but they do have somewhat conflicting ideals.

You're just trying to find anything to paint her in a scummy light at this point. So you're saying that it's scummy of her to respond to your case?

PEdit: How can she get in the way?
You can still make posts. My point still stands.

~Spiffy

And part 2 of the last post sounds incredibly strange given this followup.


This might have been a good call on your part, dapper, but I'm going to take some time to think about this and maybe take a much closer look at spifflop

[Extrapolated Eagle]

All of that assumes Kling is town which you still haven't made a real argument for.

No, the whole point of dapper s post was that if spiffy is scum then kling is most likely town and vise versa.

And I have made a real argument for her multiple times.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

ok i got up to page 15 before i said fuck it

whats the rundown and whos town?

Spiffy might be scum trying to mislynch Klingon and buddy Elyse
And if that's true that certainly clears Klingon and maybe clears Elyse
Otherwise Elyse is scum and Klingon is null-town or null-scum

Passionate Storm is likely town though she's done some scummy things and she's trying to get Klingon lynched past considering anyone else
I'm pretty sure that Elyse is still scum and focusing on getting her lynched
Dapper is kind of watching observing and making good points and probably town

Aj Is doing kinda similar to dapper but more null
Itlepip is certain Klingon is scum and being kinda bullheaded about it
Aneninen and varsoon are town and flavor crumbing
Shiro is doing the same but more likely scum
Spider Gwen was pushing kinda hard but has backed off some, she's slight town but she should help me lynch Elyse
alchemy is being straight up scummy, but kinda weird because people are ignoring him for less scummy person
Garmr is refusing to read so he can tunnel me for bs reasons and isn't really taking part in the rest of the game he's either a good scum or bad town

After that I think I got pretty much everyone participating the rest are kinda null

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Two posts isn't taking part, bub.


@interested forgot to add I'm kind of ignoring garmr for the most part but sometimes he says something he hasn't said before and I'll respond.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

This is your nightly reminder that Elyse is scum. Vote Elyse for a happy game...

I'm sorry it's been a long day and I'm tired and it's really painful pushing a lynch that a lot of other people like to ignore. There have been quite a few questions asked of me that I have already posted answers to and usually I would direct said people to these answers but I don't really feel doing that for those poor souls tonight, so you are all welcome to read my posts actually or wait until I have enough energy and forget all the fatigue this game causes me trying to convince people of this lynch and get my happy-go-lucky how on earth could they not miss this she's obvscum attitude that I always have before I realize that my posts don't get read or they do but they skim my posts and thus misinterpret them because no one has time for the game they signed up for its a freaking large game people with 23 players how do you not get that it's going to be a lot of reading? So I'll just go back to quoting myself to people who repeatedly quote the same question over and over again to me until they finally read what I quote and realize that scumhunting is more than asking questions, you gotta look for the answers, too, and that takes work and if it doesn't take work then you haven't found scum or the scum is really really really really bad at playing scum.


That said ep I didn't know what to say about you. You've got some weird posts and you've got some that seem ok and I don't know. I would really think it would be awesome if everyone on the Klingon wagon would take the time to read spifflop, like really read them to make sure they've got it right and consider dapper s question because I think it's a good one.

Uummm what else....

If the spider Gwen wagon could share where they're at with her, I've been kinda back and forth but more forth lately about her.


I'm really tired guys. This game freaking drains you, and it's pretty thankless when there's almost no movement on the wagon. Oh well. I think I've got the finding scum thing down, I just need to work on the persuasion/ getting people lynched part.

Ummm, there was something else. Oh ok:

Elyse I'm considering dropping it on you, but that might just be because I'm tired. However, if you could make a case against anyone for me or share your reads list I swear I won't be a dick about it. And it would help my read of you. Cases against Klingon and spifflop are particularly helpful towards clearing you in my opinion, but if you're actually town I guess it would be against whoever you're scumreading most. I hope I don't regret this later.

Aneninen, shiro, and varsoon, are you two planning on taking part in a lynch today? Or is that a bad idea/

Tso did you get to/read the Elyse cases yet? What did you think of them?

Jeanne if you're there, it would be amazing if you could talk to Titus about Elyse. If you two can work through it together and be nice about it and then get back to me on a conclusion, that would really help me, I think. Or if you want to talk to me, Jeanne, I'd really like to. It could help me read y'all a little bit and it might help you convince Titus, though no promises. I don't think Titus really wants to leave the Klingon wagon and I'm really not convinced by it, but you are the second half of that hydra Jeanne so you have as much right to it as she does. If she says one thing it doesn't necessarily dictate that's how it goes, appeal to her and work with her.

Itlepip and spifflop could you make your cases on myself and Klingon and if you think one of us is town (or both, for that matter) point that out as well please? I'd prefer if the hydra made a decision beforehand but if you can't reach an agreement, two different cases is preferable.


I think that's it. I'm tired guys. Like you might not see me again until Sunday or Monday tired with the exception of maybe a quick post on Friday and Saturday. I just can't keep fighting for an Elyse lynch like I have been all the time. Oh well, perhaps it turns out alright in the end. Gnite guys. I'm not completely going to bed yet but I'm close

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Elyse if you decide you want to do what I suggested, cases that I haven't heard before are particularly cool. And by drop it I mean drop my push against you. No promises, I mean, but I'm easier to persuade right now

[Extrapolated Eagle]

post 918, Extrapolated Eagle"]Aneninen, shiro, and varsoon, are you two planning on taking part in a lynch today? Or is that a bad idea/

We two? Maybe the other two. As I've told it before, I'm not interested in an Elyse lynch Today.
[/quote]

Any lynch. When we lynch someone today, will you be partaking in it provided you think said person was scum?

@itlepip I'm sorry to hear that

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Wow, that was quite well thought out. I'll drop Elyse for now, I don't have the energy at this moment in time to continue pushing that lynch. And spifflop practically completely clears Klingon. So,

VOTE: spifflop

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Ransom's readwall is classic wants to vote everyone but the lead wagon scum.

This is disgusting.

Spiffehop is obvious town. People deliberately wagonning him after one head has a death in the family and cannot defend himself. Just terrible.

That being said Klingon is still obvious scum. So is random midget.

You are either scum or being dumb. And since I can still see you cringing when you make this crappy post, I'm going with scum .

Seriously, Titus. You know this kind of AtE shouldn't come out of anyone's mouth, not even the most invading of obvscum. This post is like saying all white people are racist. The issue is not with the people you accuse, it's with you here. You're using the death in someone's family for a freaking game. No one else was thinking of the loss in the family when this happened I bet, and if you look back discussion of it happened before this post was brought up. Talk about done in poor taste.

On top of this you know that there is another head in the hydra-you of all people should know this because your other head seems to be gone.

There aren't words for how angry it makes me that you would respond like this or use this as an excuse and I could actually go on forever so I'm going to shut up now and punch a wall.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

The argument that randomidget had too many scum reads is crap. And it's funny to note how hard the leaders of the Klingon wagon defend spifflop. To the point of making shitty posts like the one I quoted above.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

The argument that randomidget had too many scum reads is crap. And it's funny to note how hard the leaders of the Klingon wagon defend spifflop. To the point of making shitty posts like the one I quoted above.

Yes, the only case against Spiff assumes Kling is town, so of course we are not going to believe it. I

No it doesn't
Read it again. It proves Klingon is town if he flips scum. But saying it assumes Klingon is town is like saying that me being scum assumes Elyse is town

[Extrapolated Eagle]

That a lady is correctly read in one game isn't justifying all the games where the same is mislynched early because scum fear town Titus and town refuse to see town Titus has a bad early game. That same phenomenon is applying to Celt and a man believes it's happening here. A man is disappointed if this one is town and not able to see the same thing another she is bemoaning usually happens to her.

Ironic, is it not?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

What do you do for a living, dapper?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And it isn't changing the fact that Spirflop is spearheading this witch hunt on Celt. Based solely on a random FoS (which is ironically a reach out to Titus as they are sharing similar fates historically) and then reaching to find evidence to specifically support the original notion. Which makes it fruit of the poisonous tree. Evidence leads to conclusion, not the other way around. Which is brought us back to this one's job. A lady, for a living, must realize when the authority is approaching a case from an angle such as this in order to get her clients off and she really SHOULD be seeing it here.

I lost you at that last part, I apologize. Could you temporarily break character to explain?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@garmr Nobody is writing me off as village idiot, as far as I understand. I just need to learn to be a little less wordy with my posts so they don't take a million and a half years to read all the way through.

Other people: feel free to correct me if above is wrong

Titus: Don't bring my job into this!

Next post: Brings another part of her job into this.

Yeah. I'm still mad at you for that post you made earlier

[Extrapolated Eagle]

A man has many and more who are threatening policy lynch before. What's one more threat!

I laughed at this after thinking of all the posts threatening to lynch you just because of how you speak.

@Gwen wanna get spiffy today? We can look at Titus tomorrow. I think she's scum right now but I should never try to build a case against someone I'm mad at unless I've had time to take a step back and think.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Klingon let's get spiffy for now. Get a good strong wagon going and then as we ride off into a beautiful sunset with a hammer at the end we can look back at Titus and itlepip and Elyse who are trying desperately to drag the wagon back even though it pushes ever forward?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Here let's try a different question. Suppose your wagon is all town, who is scum and why?

Can I ask you a question?

Same scenario. Except this time we're assuming she's town. Is it likely her wagon is made entirely up of town?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Here let's try a different question. Suppose your wagon is all town, who is scum and why?

Can I ask you a question?

Same scenario. Except this time we're assuming she's town. Is it likely her wagon is made entirely up of town?

Yes.

Ok. Just curious for your opinion here. Thanks.

@TSO i'm voting Gwen bc she is scummy and ignoring my questions.

What are your thoughts on the current major wagons?

You're hiding behind your spider Gwen vote.

Major points to Elyse.

Don't do that. Nope. This is OMGUS.

Stormy: VC please. I know you keep track.

I believe Klingon is at 9 and spiffy is at 5

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Wow, that was quite well thought out. I'll drop Elyse for now, I don't have the energy at this moment in time to continue pushing that lynch. And spifflop practically completely clears Klingon. So,

VOTE: spifflop

WHAT
THE
FUCK

So this guy drops the Elyse vote COMPLETELY after Jaqen's case (without explaining why he agrees with it) but getting him to even fucking CONSIDER Klingon as scum is like pulling teeth.

I explained. These posts were before the jaq even posted his case. It's possible you missed these, but if you did, that's simply a single example of you not reading that undermines your case against virtually everything else here. If you were wrong about me because you let your emotions cloud your judgement, how many others were you wrong about?

Since the Lady of Syrup is a bit soured on a man, then she should be seeing she can at least weigh a man's thoughts evenly given the nature of her reads as compared to reality of a man's alignment...if not then with a bit of humor look at this abstract:

Given: a man is town, thus his actions are flowing accordingly


SCENARIO

Elly is facing the flame and is sweating most profusely.

Spitflop, like everyone else, is knowing this is just so.

Spitflop is taking the opportunity to derail any attention from Elly onto Celty.


HYPOTHESIS

This is pinging opportunistic in a man's mind.

If Lord Spit's scum, he's hoping Elly will swallow and they are becoming the best of buddies even though if this as well is just so, Celty is likely mislynch material. If a man is building a sufficiently clear case of early game scummotivation, then a Spifflop lynch today is superior to either lady because if Spit flipping scum reasonably town clears both.

----------------------

If you are following that LOGIC (disregarding your personal reads, just the logic), would you agree proving Spitflop scum is clearing Celty in whole and soft clearing Elly at the same time? If so and if a man is just so in his evaluation will a lady work with a man for a day?

Since the Lady of Syrup is a bit soured on a man, then she should be seeing she can at least weigh a man's thoughts evenly given the nature of her reads as compared to reality of a man's alignment...if not then with a bit of humor look at this abstract:

Given: a man is town, thus his actions are flowing accordingly


SCENARIO

Elly is facing the flame and is sweating most profusely.

Spitflop, like everyone else, is knowing this is just so.

Spitflop is taking the opportunity to derail any attention from Elly onto Celty.


HYPOTHESIS

This is pinging opportunistic in a man's mind.

If Lord Spit's scum, he's hoping Elly will swallow and they are becoming the best of buddies even though if this as well is just so, Celty is likely mislynch material. If a man is building a sufficiently clear case of early game scummotivation, then a Spifflop lynch today is superior to either lady because if Spit flipping scum reasonably town clears both.

----------------------

If you are following that LOGIC (disregarding your personal reads, just the logic), would you agree proving Spitflop scum is clearing Celty in whole and soft clearing Elly at the same time? If so and if a man is just so in his evaluation will a lady work with a man for a day?

Is this question for all, or merely aj?

A man is looking for AJ's thoughts in particular but what is this one's take?

I think spifflop could just be town set on the lynch of Klingon.

I also need to go back because I didn't see it as outright buddying of Elyse, so if this is true they could be scum together, but I need to look at this second part again because it could just be me wanting Elyse to be scum after all the work I've put into getting her lynched

Alright,

Are you claiming Town Doctor or are you talking about your role in Twilight Zone?

And if you think Titus is playing like she did in Twilight Zone you wouldn't be scum reading her because she was town in that game.

~Spiffy

That^ sounds like it might come from town being dumb and pushing town way too hard.

. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.

stuff like this bothers me though. You don't get to dictate where the lynch goes. And delaying a lynch is almost always a scum-thing, seriously.

Eagle, I think your case is solid. I've read it over 3 times. I'm not sure what the scum motivation is? Can you explain WHY she do those strange things?

But this is actually strange. Kind of. I mean part one seems like it could be town set hopelessly on a lynch on Klingon, but the attitude shift to part 2 is particularly strange. I'd expect one or the other but they do have somewhat conflicting ideals.

You're just trying to find anything to paint her in a scummy light at this point. So you're saying that it's scummy of her to respond to your case?

PEdit: How can she get in the way?
You can still make posts. My point still stands.

~Spiffy

And part 2 of the last post sounds incredibly strange given this followup.


This might have been a good call on your part, dapper, but I'm going to take some time to think about this and maybe take a much closer look at spifflop

And I discuss dropping Elyse here:

This is your nightly reminder that Elyse is scum. Vote Elyse for a happy game...

I'm sorry it's been a long day and I'm tired and it's really painful pushing a lynch that a lot of other people like to ignore. There have been quite a few questions asked of me that I have already posted answers to and usually I would direct said people to these answers but I don't really feel doing that for those poor souls tonight, so you are all welcome to read my posts actually or wait until I have enough energy and forget all the fatigue this game causes me trying to convince people of this lynch and get my happy-go-lucky how on earth could they not miss this she's obvscum attitude that I always have before I realize that my posts don't get read or they do but they skim my posts and thus misinterpret them because no one has time for the game they signed up for its a freaking large game people with 23 players how do you not get that it's going to be a lot of reading? So I'll just go back to quoting myself to people who repeatedly quote the same question over and over again to me until they finally read what I quote and realize that scumhunting is more than asking questions, you gotta look for the answers, too, and that takes work and if it doesn't take work then you haven't found scum or the scum is really really really really bad at playing scum.


That said ep I didn't know what to say about you. You've got some weird posts and you've got some that seem ok and I don't know. I would really think it would be awesome if everyone on the Klingon wagon would take the time to read spifflop, like really read them to make sure they've got it right and consider dapper s question because I think it's a good one.

Uummm what else....

If the spider Gwen wagon could share where they're at with her, I've been kinda back and forth but more forth lately about her.


I'm really tired guys. This game freaking drains you, and it's pretty thankless when there's almost no movement on the wagon. Oh well. I think I've got the finding scum thing down, I just need to work on the persuasion/ getting people lynched part.

Ummm, there was something else. Oh ok:

Elyse I'm considering dropping it on you, but that might just be because I'm tired. However, if you could make a case against anyone for me or share your reads list I swear I won't be a dick about it. And it would help my read of you. Cases against Klingon and spifflop are particularly helpful towards clearing you in my opinion, but if you're actually town I guess it would be against whoever you're scumreading most. I hope I don't regret this later.

Aneninen, shiro, and varsoon, are you two planning on taking part in a lynch today? Or is that a bad idea/

Tso did you get to/read the Elyse cases yet? What did you think of them?

Jeanne if you're there, it would be amazing if you could talk to Titus about Elyse. If you two can work through it together and be nice about it and then get back to me on a conclusion, that would really help me, I think. Or if you want to talk to me, Jeanne, I'd really like to. It could help me read y'all a little bit and it might help you convince Titus, though no promises. I don't think Titus really wants to leave the Klingon wagon and I'm really not convinced by it, but you are the second half of that hydra Jeanne so you have as much right to it as she does. If she says one thing it doesn't necessarily dictate that's how it goes, appeal to her and work with her.

Itlepip and spifflop could you make your cases on myself and Klingon and if you think one of us is town (or both, for that matter) point that out as well please? I'd prefer if the hydra made a decision beforehand but if you can't reach an agreement, two different cases is preferable.


I think that's it. I'm tired guys. Like you might not see me again until Sunday or Monday tired with the exception of maybe a quick post on Friday and Saturday. I just can't keep fighting for an Elyse lynch like I have been all the time. Oh well, perhaps it turns out alright in the end. Gnite guys. I'm not completely going to bed yet but I'm close

K.

Also. Dropping it with Elyse hurts, I promise it does, but I can maybe get back to her later if I don't get nkd

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Passionate storm, Elyse, pip, spiffeh lop, Varsoon, Garmr

Applying TSO AJ , Spider Gwen

Gun to head town TWIE but his lack of content and votes makes me not care if he dies

Need to get invested: Shiro Mohis interest errant, Shiro voting scum is a good sign

Gun to head scum PV

You have a lot of scum on your town list. You should take them off or I'll have you quicklynched after spifflop

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Titus our opinions are so similar idk whether to embrace it or be terrified.

PEdit: Jaqen who do you think is scum other than myself? Also why are you trying to ignore how obvtown I was in my latest bout of posting?

~Spiffy

in this game, embrace it bc we are both obvtown. Just go your homework. If I haven't laid a foundation, press it.

What do you do when spiff flips scum then?

EE you do realize you haven't provided a reason for scum reading me?

~Spiffy

Yes. I did. 872. Also I agree with dapper s reasoning

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And once again hiding behind terms such as "fluff" without providing examples so he doesn't have to go address all the shit he is hellbent on avoiding in my ISO.

~Spiffy

A man is pointing out that's what the ISO Widget beside ones name is for. No need te littering the thread with a wall of mindless dribble when it's so handily accessed by clicking the link.

OH MY GOD EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS.

Jaqen was perfectly content with going through my ISO to NITPICK AT TRIVIAL POSTS, but when I ask him to consider the other aspects of my ISO he refuses to comply.

@Eagle thoughts on this?

~Spiffy

Why do you ask my thoughts when you repeatedly call me scum? You attacked me for my case on Elyse and repeatedly targeted Klingon for barely a halfway decent reason. From the tone of your posts it is quite easy to tell you are emotionally involved at this moment in time and I highly suggest you take a step back, calm down, and analyze the situation. I am willing to work with you if you are willing to work with me.

After you get back and have cooled off, post a full, thought out reads list, and I want you to really, truly consider two people for me: Elyse, and Klingon. Part of the reason I am willing to give up a stronger scumread for you is because your lynch likely clears these two ladies. However, I do not want to lynch you if you are town and simply emotionally involved in this game at the point of making such decisions, which is why they seem scummy. So when you come back give me your read (and I want you to fully reconsider your read on just those two people without looking at anyone else's cases including mine, and get back to me with an in depth analysis of your read. At this point I will Unvote you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

EAGLE ADDRESS MY RESPONSE TO DAPPER THEN. You don't get to say that shit while ignoring my responses.

~Spiffy

Notice how I'm fucking inviting Jaqen and EE to analyze me thoroughly but they insist on ignoring my responses.

~Spiffy

Calm down, I was working on it. If you want someone to respond in depth, then you shouldn't expect it quickly. There is a trade-off between quality and quantity, and I think you're getting encouraged to act in ways that are less than beneficial to town by Titus. I am not certain what she is doing, but she is certainly quite fully of herself and not lacking in the buddying department.

I would suggest that you analyze your relationship there as well, because it may be poison whispering in your ear

[Extrapolated Eagle]

None of the people in this scenario are a doctor? Then I discussed things with the patient directly. Particularly why said people might lie about her sickness.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Btw I'm excited to add this game to the laundry list of games where scum attack me day 1 because they think I'm an easy target but p. much out themselves in the process.

PEdit: @Eagle notice I left you out of my scum reads? I am asking you because you might just be misguided town and I am trying to determine for myself. This is called "scum hunting". Stop dodging the question and answer. I never attacked you for your Elyse case, I just said that I don't think Elyse is scum.

And I will not be providing a reads list. If the Klingon wagon ever loses traction I will probably provide a full case for her but at this point I don't need to. I'm not going to jump through hoops to get you to unvote me. If you want to keep kidding yourself that Jaqen has a case by all means keep your vote. But expect to be scum read because of it.

~Spiffy

Starting to think EE is a Klingon scumbuddy.

~Spiffy

And ok. But you can expect to be added to the ignore list until you take a second to breathe and stop posting with your gut reactions.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

None of the people in this scenario are a doctor? Then I discussed things with the patient directly. Particularly why said people might lie about her sickness.

None are. Ok, you think that people knowing her would lie. Why? Why not ask the two who know her and investigate their evidence? Why do you search for evidence they are lying?

I haven't said anything about lying, accuracy or anything else, just that the two knew the patient better.

I am not saying that I think the people who know her are lying. It is quite possible they are simply misguided. I would like to hear it from the patient themselves. Why take it from a second-hand source when you can take it from a first hand source? My parents are very good to me. They have spent a large majority of my life with me. They most likely know me best of anyone. And yet I have told them I was sick in the past and they did not believe it. My parents are possibly on the other end of the spectrum to these two people you mentioned, but you two have known Klingon for months, perhaps a year. My parents have known me for decades. They were still wrong about me and when they finally took me to the ER the doctor said "just in time why didn't you take him sooner?" It is so easy to believe something about someone or think you know someone when truly human beings are so complex that even the people who make them cannot fully understand them.

So no, I would talk to the patient themselves.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

EE?

Working on it. Sorry I'm phone posting, so it takes time.

None of the people in this scenario are a doctor? Then I discussed things with the patient directly. Particularly why said people might lie about her sickness.

None are. Ok, you think that people knowing her would lie. Why? Why not ask the two who know her and investigate their evidence? Why do you search for evidence they are lying?

I haven't said anything about lying, accuracy or anything else, just that the two knew the patient better.

I am not saying that I think the people who know her are lying. It is quite possible they are simply misguided. I would like to hear it from the patient themselves. Why take it from a second-hand source when you can take it from a first hand source? My parents are very good to me. They have spent a large majority of my life with me. They most likely know me best of anyone. And yet I have told them I was sick in the past and they did not believe it. My parents are possibly on the other end of the spectrum to these two people you mentioned, but you two have known Klingon for months, perhaps a year. My parents have known me for decades. They were still wrong about me and when they finally took me to the ER the doctor said "just in time why didn't you take him sooner?" It is so easy to believe something about someone or think you know someone when truly human beings are so complex that even the people who make them cannot fully understand them.

So no, I would talk to the patient themselves.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Spiff. I like what I've seen from you as a person. So do me this favor. Calm down. At the very least. Take a break until you're not angry anymore. Then when you come back no one can write you off as being angry.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'll think about it.

~Spiffy

Thanks <3
^that's a manly heart, btw

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Of course people who know you can be wrong, but yet even in your scenario, the parents figured it out before it was too late. Why can't this scenario be smart parents? You know your parents loved you and they didn't want you to be ill. No one wants their kids to be ill.

Do you think it's possible that the patient may not want to admit she's ill?

All sides should be investigated. No one is going to claim they are sick after all.

Titus, I want to block with you. I really do. But I disagree on so many things with you. And your post earlier tonight was bad. Like really bad.

So I will drop all reads to null and reread everything when I have energy to fight again for whatever reads I come up with. Because I will fight for my reads regardless of how controversial they are.

And at that point in time if I read you as scum and anyone else we disagree on, we can discuss and perhaps come to a consensus. If I still read you as scum, though, you will have to justify the posts I find scummy to me and I don't think you will be excited about that. If you're up for this, let me know. I'll put in most of the work. But I completely understand if you don't. I'm not the easiest person to work with. I know. I try, but I'm still really bad about working with people. Oh well. It's something I'm working on.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

EE?

I'm sorry! I'm trying!

I am drunk EE so I'm gunna crash soon

Ok, I posted. I'm sorry it takes so long.

Fight not useful when u just say u suck no u suck

Agreed.

Good night, Titus. Sleep well.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I love intellectual sparring. These questions were thinly veiled sparring anyway. Jaquen picked it up too.

Either you are paranoid of experts or you really are filtering everything through Klingon town.

What happens in a Klingon scum world?

I'd like to say me, too, but I'm not quite sure what defines an intellectual, and I believe that makes me not one.

I don't take things at face value. I like to play devil's advocate.

In a Klingon scum world, Elyse is null-scum and spifflop is town. Maybe null-town, although I don't know that spiffy thinks that hard, so I'll put him as town for now. You're likely town.

What happens in an Elyse scum world?

PEdit: I'll take that as an acceptance, then. I will hop to it the moment I get the chance.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I love intellectual sparring. These questions were thinly veiled sparring anyway. Jaquen picked it up too.

Either you are paranoid of experts or you really are filtering everything through Klingon town.

What happens in a Klingon scum world?

Things are changing, obviously. But this is where we are right now. A man is stating there is no EVIDENCE of Klingscum. Only gut feelings. There' IS actual evidence of a scum agenda coming from Spitflop. And now a non town Spiffeh reaction. A lady is but blinded by a "hun" thrown her way and the fact that for once she isn't on the chopping block.

You forgot the irrefutable cases of "meta" also brought against her.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I love intellectual sparring. These questions were thinly veiled sparring anyway. Jaquen picked it up too.

Either you are paranoid of experts or you really are filtering everything through Klingon town.

What happens in a Klingon scum world?

I'd like to say me, too, but I'm not quite sure what defines an intellectual, and I believe that makes me not one.

I don't take things at face value. I like to play devil's advocate.

In a Klingon scum world, Elyse is null-scum and spifflop is town. Maybe null-town, although I don't know that spiffy thinks that hard, so I'll put him as town for now. You're likely town.

What happens in an Elyse scum world?

PEdit: I'll take that as an acceptance, then. I will hop to it the moment I get the chance.

Lots more booze for Titus as Elyse likely felt she had to bus Kling. In Elyse and Kling town world, Titus needs a distillery and a reset.

If I am right Jaquen Kling and random as scum?

What would you expect to see if Klingon was scum?

What would you expect scum to do in a scenario where the townblock is actually town?

Haha. What's a reset?

If jaquen and random are scum then itlepip and spifflop are likely town. Aneninen might need me to take a closer look at him.
And if I am right and shiro and spifflop are scum?

I would expect to see a major distraction not related at all to kling or her wagon, perhaps a large wagon against aj or aneninen or someone of the like. Earlier I would have expected Klingon to keep quiet and let the wagon fade away instead of fanning th flames. I very highly doubt dapper is scum with Klingon in any case because putting a wagon on spifflop indirectly attracts a lot of unwanted attention to Klingon and fans the flames further.

Become a part of it. Buddy it.
Or ignore it. Play like it isn't there and the players inside have no more power than they did before.
Back when I was learning to play I played scum in a multiball game. And one of the scum players on the other team claimed scum day one. He told the town that all they had to do was give him a list and every night he would night kill the player with the most votes on the list. He wouldn't vote. I, being th noobscum I was, raged against it. My buddy kept silent. She lived much longer than I, but needless to say, the other scum won. That was a poorly played game by town and it frustrated me that he got away with that. My buddy cursed me and for some reason every time we signed up for a game we got scum together and he always funneled to bus me day one because he hated me that much.

EE, you're better than this.

Btw, I really appreciate all the blessings given. You guys are awesome. Love this site/playerlist

Oh hush. Give me more time to think.

I taught Klingon how to play. Twilight is one of the few times I read her wrong. I am right like 80 percent of the time on her.

Either you are paranoid of experts or you really are filtering everything through Klingon town.

Teaching someone to play a game over the internet does not make anyone an expert, unfortunately. One of my little brothers taught my other little brother how to play chess a week ago. The latter beats the former a majority of the time now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I am home.

I don't drink and drive. Hahaha.

Glad you're safe .

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Dapper and Klingon are very likely not scum together because it would be an incredibly bad move for dapper to build his wagon against spifflop, one of the spearheads of the Klingon wagon, as it makes his hypothetical buddy, Klingon, the counter wagon for everyone who thinks spiffy is town. This puts Klingon in danger and from dapper's posts it appears he would think through this all the way and realize this fatal flaw and make the case far away feom Klingon. Perhaps against me, since I was defending her and this would likely draw votes off the Klingon wagon. Or against a lurker/flavor Fisher like varsoon, alchemist, or aneninen.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Klingon is objectively not a "counter wagon"

we are.

Dapper makes case against you.
People don't like this case.
Who has the most votes besides you to counter?
Klingon.
Thus, counter wagon. Perhaps a counter wagon to counter a counter wagon, but a counter wagon just the same.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So because of this if we flip Klingon and she comes up town, Dapper is pretty much cleared, in my opinion, unless this is multiball, and I don't believe the last one was?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Nah I will take the scum that is wagoned

A reset means throw everything out and start over. Hit the rest button.

I will answer the rest in the morning sober

Not sure what you mean by that first line.
Ah, ok.
Alright, thank you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

counter wagon is usually a term implied by me to mean a scum-pushed wagon to defend a buddy/person they don't want lynched

to me its a dirty word

I apologize if it has a connotation I was not aware of and I implied this. It is not what I meant.

PEdit: I missed the shiro wagon. I should go back.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So I had to study, but now I am back. Eagle, what are your reads?

I apologize. I got some done last night but I got tired and had to stop about an eighth of the way through. I'm still rereading but I will be back in a bit, don't worry.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Nope. Nope. Nope. Pbpa isn't possible until night and even then I don't know that that will be enough time. Alright Ill probably have my reads for you some time tonight, Titus, but they won't be as deep as I want them to be. :'(

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Nope. Nope. Nope. Pbpa isn't possible until night and even then I don't know that that will be enough time. Alright Ill probably have my reads for you some time tonight, Titus, but they won't be as deep as I want them to be. :'(

That was actually Jeanne talking. While having her sign is good, your powers of observation should have told you that.

1) Jeanne's post implied an absence from the thread. I was not absent.
2) Jeanne's post implied studying. I was drunk. Drunk people generally are not off to study.
3) The post implied a lack of knowledge with your reads, which I do not have.

Reading between the lines is a very valuable skill. I think it might be part of the reason you are not voting Klingon.

Now to the substance of our discussion last night.

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the post itself as much as I was to responding. I skimmed there. And yes I thought that was weird that you were studying but maybe you study as a drinking game or its a euphemism or something.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Jeanne do you have gut reads/thoughts on the thread?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Jeanne do you have gut reads/thoughts on the thread?

Talk to me for now your partner is interested in making a decision. I'm still gathering information. Help me gather. Talk to me.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

That's an issue and poor town play or scum play. The devil is in the details. If you miss them because you're responding, then you aren't doing your team favors. My old teacher told me an adage (which I still break too much and will butcher.) God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. Listen twice as much as you speak.

Alright, are you really calling me poor town or scum because I had not yet gotten around to reading in depth the request for reads as I was still reading the first part of the thread to catch up?

...

I mean... What?! Mind if I ask why you expect me to read in depth the posts currently being posted in the thread and catch up with the thread reading those posts simultaneously? Because let's be honest, dear. That doesn't make sense at all. Why would I read posts in depth now that could be taken out of context later? Part of good reading is understanding the place the other person is coming from and glass I had not yet gotten to that place, I was not able to properly read. Calm down, please. I am, in fact, trying to work with you. But give me time. You ask for a decision now, but I still feel the need to gather information. It is out of my comfort zone to try to put down a decision so quickly and I don't like being pressured.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm not interested in speaking to you at this moment. I need more time and space. I don't like how manipulative you're being- I understand it's in your nature, so I'm trying to keep it in context but you must understand that I have a few ideas about how this could go horribly wrong so I'm asking you to let me do this right.

PEdit: awesome. Thank you. Then you'll understand why I want to speak to Joanne first before following up with you. And the fact that you believed that I had caught up enough in the thread shows that you are not reading enough to know that I fleas not in a place to read and analyze your request for reads properly

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So I had to study, but now I am back. Eagle, what are your reads?

Off the top of my head?
Spifflop null-scum, but clears kling and I like the way people reacted to this wagon in that there some..... Interesting reactions. Hoping for maybe more of those

Itlepip null-town he's very sure of himself and kinda sees what he wants when he reads and so people tell Jim go back and when he does he sees what he wants. Needs to take a step away from game and think about things

Elyse freaking scummy all over the place not very protown player maybe a nub with nub playstyle that needs work I guesss? Is that why sues being townread? Oh well spiffle might clear her. She's mediocre and needs to get her hands dirty

Passionate Storm is town when careful, scum whenshes not which Ames me think town but the AtE last night, some of her confbias and her OMGUS-like reactions to the Klingon spittle scandal make me suspicious. Very very manipulative and I'm scared this town block she's trying to get going might be a trap with her scum at the head of it. Recent interactions seem less and less motivated to reach a conclusion as a group and more and more like forcing her conclusion on the world, which might be personal style but also might be her knowing thought and doing well figures out she's talking weird

Aneninen is towny talking about towny things kinda very caught up in role fishing with varsoon. I think both of these people are town probably but I would love to hear their answer to my question about whether or not they will be partaking in lynch today


Shiro is kinda jn the null camp looking out at the world

Randomidget and twie need to start pushing things or theyr going to get pushed

Errant is scummy when he isn't paying attention butbtown when he is. I don't like his bursting and someone of his logic seems off.

Tso said he would get to Elyse and give both wagons a chance bit seems to have forgotten. He seems somewhat satisfied with the way things are which makes me think maybe both spittle and kling are town.

AJ needs to do something about her reads I dont like how she just sits on. Then but they can be kind of good. I get a weird feeling about her

Dapper is thinking and noticed some things that I've agreed with. Like his observations. One of the few people, I think who I'm gonna say I think if spittle flips town I'm going to be suspicious of the person leading the wagon on. Maybe needs to be reevaluated

Garmr isn't worth my time optimal scum play, crappy town play. If I'm feeling confident and don't know who else to vote off, I might push a policy lynch against him

This is from memory, mine of which is not the best, and not an official reads list either, if you havbe a question or want to challenge something that isn't stupid here I'll try and quote a post for you. Stupid is left to being defined by me

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Not a fan of that Garmr read EE coming from you. Any guess why?

Was Titus there. My bad.

Dang. Getting my hopes up like that. Any word from her? Is it hopeless?

And no, I dont need to guess, I an aware of both the perceived irony and the appearance of OMGUS

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Eagle please tell me how you're comfortable with this?

~Spiffy

I like that you're getting pushed. I'm hoping to get a couple things out of this:
1. A solid reads list that you have thought out and kind of sort of stick to instead of calling people scum for just oppoaing your ideas
2. A reevaluation of both wagons
3. A couple stronger reads and at least one solid town read I feel comfortable blocking with
4. Maybe a couple more town finding other town and agreeing on a lynch instead of the chaos we have now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@spiffy that's fine for her reading kling. I don't exactly have the strongest of town reads on Titus right now, I would love Joannes thoughts on the matter.

But like I said earlier while her posts hold an individual scumminess in and of themselves, I have not seen a whole lot of scum motivation coming from her but I will reevaluate the moment Joanne gets here