Micro 596: Longnight Mafia [GAME OVER]

[PantherPunt]

Sup

[PantherPunt]

So I just skimmed the micro 580 6er. WOW at the 2 town self hammers. Can the other 5 townies in this game please make a promise to me that you won't do that?

Also, RC was terribly scummy in those first few pages but that might just be bias from playing with him as town before.

Has anyone here played with anyone else before? As for me, I've not.

[PantherPunt]

Hey Postie you were just online, but you didn't post in here. What gives?

[PantherPunt]

Hey Postie you were just online, but you didn't post in here. What gives?

Rhaegar too.
Wtf am I the only one is excited to play?

[PantherPunt]

VOTE: PantherPunt
Mostly RVS, a little bit serious. I'm getting bad vibes from his comments on the lurkers.

^hedgeeeeeeeee. You can't have it both ways.

Tell me more about these bad vibes

[PantherPunt]

His comments on the lurkers seem forced, but it could be a playstyle thing.

Pot, kettle.

Forced is what you just tried to do by construing my comment as scummy. I was excited to get rolling. Didn't call either of them scum.

Gotta wait for other person to get here but I'd put money I caught my group's goon already.

[PantherPunt]

Postie- gun to your head read on TIMU?

[PantherPunt]

Tell me how you got a probtown read on either of them, please, trollie

[PantherPunt]

I didn't really believe the case anyways, it was likely a playstyle thing but seemed worth mentioning. It got some conversation going, like I wanted.

I know you didn't try to call either of them as scum, what does that even have to do with this?

How is it a playstyle thing to say "hey, why didn't you check in"

You called it a little bit serious vote, now you're walking that back saying you didn't believe the "case"

Tell me, what was the "case" that you didn't believe?

[PantherPunt]

It is a playstyle thing because most people would try to create content rather than inviting others to do it for them.
...wait that's what scum would do

hmm

Anyways, the original case was simply that I found it weird that someone would call out others on lurking on Page One because I've never seen anyone do that before at the beginning of the game. Hence, it seemed forced.

I was inviting others to just pop in, not asking for content to be made so I didn't have to. You'll find I won't have a problem posting freely and loosely.

Saying "called out others for lurking" implies that I was calling them scummy. And calling it "forced" implies that I was trying to push some agenda. So that's where my confusion comes from, as I was doing neither of those things.

I find you voting me for it is definitely the objectively "forced" part of the whole thing. And walking it back by saying you didn't believe the "case" (which further solidifies you were scumreading me for it) doesnt feel natural. Like your thought process isn't clear, and in my opinion not natural and believable.

[PantherPunt]

Tell me how you got a probtown read on either of them, please, trollie

townvibes bro

TIMU for voting

which at first seemed stupid but he's right

Postie for her inquisition

So you think my post asking why those other two didn't post is alignment indicative too? I'm assuming so since you called TIMU "right"? TIMU has since doubled back and softy implied it's not scummy but just a playstyle difference. You sticking with calling it scummy or do you want to sheep him back to null like you sheeped the scum read?

And Postie for the inquisition. Are you referring to the hypothetical RVS inquisition or the two questions to TIMU that were a essentially identical to my questions?

[PantherPunt]

A good way to invite others to pop in is to create content on your own. How much experience do you have in Mafia?

No, I knew you weren't calling them scummy, I'm sorry for the confusion. To make my thought process more clear, it just didn't seem like Town would call people out for lurking this early in the game.

p-edit: Panther, why are you casing Trollie and I when only one of us can be scum? Who are you most suspicious of?

I've played something like 20 forum games ranging from 9er newbies on here to 60-80 player mashes with 12 hour days. Fairly experienced. That's not content, though. That's fluff, but can be helpful in understanding others I guess.

And I know only one of you can be scum. Odd that you didn't add a "from your perspective" caveat to that and could be considered a slip (speaking with a perspective that you KNOW I'm town.) but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there

I am trying to sort out your alignments. Asking questions is how I do that. it may seem aggressive and like I'm scumreading both of you, and that's ok. Its how I'll solve which of you is actually town.

[PantherPunt]

Alright, so you should know that in RVS, asking lurkers to stop lurking when you're not doing anything productive yourself is anti-Town. Then why would you have done it?

You didn't answer my question. Which of us are you must suspicious of?

Lolwut
First of all, it's not anti-town to ask other people to engage the thread. And I didn't even ask, just expressed incredulity.

I made a post about micro 580, asked people not to self hammer, and asked if anyone has played with anyone else before.
And you're back to painting me in a negative light for the lurk call out. Make up your mind.

Why are you so concerned about which of you I'm more suspicious of? I'm equally suspicious of both of you. Your posting has been very weak attempt at scum hunting and use of logic. It looks forced and scummy.
Trollie is either town with bad gut reads upon thread entry or scum seeking to buddy town!you and sheep your self-admitted not-actually-a-case "case" by calling you right.
Need to see more from both of you and we are on our way.

Felt no need to comment on your maybe-slip?

[PantherPunt]

@PantherPunt

- I get that you think TiMU's argument about you asking about lurkers feels forced. Can you summarise the rest of your problems with TiMU? Is it mainly his original point or his response to your pressure that's bugging you?

suspicion and vote on me forced
then flipflopping on whether it was a playstyle clash that he was just commenting on to "get discussion going" or he felt I was actually anti-town/scummy for it. (still don't know where he stands atm)
made a potential perspective-slip
worried about my read on him vs my read on trollie; it's a self-concious mindset that I more typically see come from scum. (or newbs, but N/A here)

[PantherPunt]

Messed up, more like it isn't fit for a Town mindset to ask other people to post without having any productive content.

Telling people not to self-hammer isn't productive, I'm pretty sure all of us know how to do that already. Knowing whether we're played with others is the game is useless information as well. You haven't posted any

productive

content, you do have content.

Well, you avoided my question entirely when I first asked it. I'm interested in knowing your reads so I can comment on them. And Trollie has the V/LA banner, does his rather lazy post feel less suspicious with that information?

What is there to say about that? I misspoke.

TIMU you are struggling.
The fact that you haven't just recanted and said "sorry you're right there really wasn't anything alignment indicative there", but instead doubling down and trying to rationalize yourself. It looks bad.

1)telling people not to self hammer is relevant since last game two townies did it. You played that game, you know that. 2)finding out who has played with each other is definitely useful info, to me at minimum. You are just trying to torpedo me on any point now apparently.
ALL THAT ASIDE, you are making it seem like I should have been more productive at that point (post 5? 6?) and am accordingly scummy for saying "so and so was around but not posting, what gives?" I'd argue that's me trying to stimulate content.

[PantherPunt]

And Trollie has the V/LA banner, does his rather lazy post feel less suspicious with that information?

What is there to say about that? I misspoke.

And about this part: v/la is an excuse to no-post. Not really relevant at all to the content of his post.

His post was either a townie's 100% wrong reads from within our group, or, a scum lazily sheeping your incorrect read/vote on me.

TBD

[PantherPunt]

TIMU is being too reckless for scum

PP is calculated but says some off things

You are town-mediating their argument

p-edit: my scumread of PP has nothing to do with the post about lurking

The ole too scummy to be scum argument? That's how you're justifying a townread on TIMU?

I'd love it if you could cite where I'm saying "off" things. Anyone can give a scumread and say "he said scummy things" or "he said off things", it's lazy and scummy and a cop out. Point to something and justify yourself. Otherwise you're just saying words without logic.

[PantherPunt]

p-edit: my scumread of PP has nothing to do with the post about lurking

[/u]
You made a scum read on me in post 27. If that had nothing to do with the post about lurking, please tell me EXACTLY what on the first page incited a scum read. Thanks

[PantherPunt]

Actually,
{This is my username}
{TheTrollie, Postie}
{Rhaegar}
{Killthestory}
{PantherPunt}

This is more accurate.

Have you seriously constructed a read list that includes a 0-poster and someone who has only ego-posted?
Or is this not a T>S read list and instead something else?

[PantherPunt]

Actually,
{This is my username}
{TheTrollie, Postie}
{Rhaegar}
{Killthestory}
{PantherPunt}

This is more accurate.

Have you seriously constructed a read list that includes a 0-poster and someone who has only ego-posted?
Or is this not a T>S read list and instead something else?

Why do you paint everyone who's suspicious of you as scummy?

Questioning =\= scum-read. but you're putting words in my mouth again.
Do you have a problem with me asking about it?

[PantherPunt]

The ole too scummy to be scum argument? That's how you're justifying a townread on TIMU?

That's... not really what he said.

It's how I read it. You can let him answer for himself though. That'd be cool

[PantherPunt]

No. The 'seriously' in your post implied suspicion.

Incredulity. Not a scum read. As in "how the hell do you rank order someone who hasn't posted?"

[PantherPunt]

p-edit: my scumread of PP has nothing to do with the post about lurking

[/u]
You made a scum read on me in post 27. If that had nothing to do with the post about lurking, please tell me EXACTLY what on the first page incited a scum read. Thanks

nah.

"Nah?"
seriously?

[PantherPunt]

Whatlol indeed.
VOTE: thetrollie

TIMU thanks for humoring my inquisition

[PantherPunt]

Thanks for responding to everything I've pushed you on. In comparison, you look much more town than trollie to this point.

His inability to explain his reads/logic and certainty with inconsistent logic paints him pretty clearly.
He clearly took advantage of your early read on me by piggybacking it. Said he scumread me for something other than questioning the lurkers. But when he scumread me in 27, that was about the whole of my content. When I ask him to expound, he says "nah." We both respond in a way indicating that that's not an acceptable response, but somehow he judges our responses on different rubrics considering your response made you "BOOM 100% TOWN"

It's just nonsense

[PantherPunt]

Anyone calling me obvious scum:
give a reason, make a case. I haven't seen reasons yet, just "Panther is scum" so I'm inclined to think all 3 scum are pushing that and others may be falling victim to perceived "thread consensus"

[PantherPunt]

the original scumread was his saying "the other 5 townies" as opposed to just like "dont self hammer people"

but his response to TIMU was aweful which strengthened the read, and then once i got involved it became obvious

So I'm scum for saying "5 other townies don't self hammer"?

I could buy that you thought I was "buddying" the town by trying to say that. I've made that accusation before when people say stuff like that.

But the you speak on generalities. Ie "awful responses" and "became obvious"
Cite something! It's so infuriating when people play the game this way bc some of them are actually town

[PantherPunt]

Panther in his group is obvious scum.

no need for debate there

.

So incredibly anti town and very likely scum. how did you think saying this was a good idea?

[PantherPunt]

Panther in his group is obvious scum.

no need for debate there

.

So incredibly anti town and very likely scum. how did you think saying this was a good idea?

To be clear, if you were town, and incredibly sure I was mafia, then you should want to get all the "spew" you can. You'd want to see how others in the game interact with me and how I interact with them.

Writing me off just doesn't come from a townie solve-the-game mindset.
I'm more frustrated with this game than I've been with a mafia game, so I'm gonna step away for a little bit.

TIMU

- id suggest an unvote so that Trollie can't hammer.
As a sign of good faith, I will UNVOTE: for now

[PantherPunt]

Nah, PP definitely doesn't seem like town. Trollie, I haven't looked into him, but PP has a scum mindset. You can tell that from his initial posts honestly.

Can you point to a post and say how it has a scum mindset?

[PantherPunt]

VOTE: PantherPunt
Mostly RVS, a little bit serious. I'm getting bad vibes from his comments on the lurkers.

^hedgeeeeeeeee. You can't have it both ways.

Tell me more about these bad vibes

Extremely defensive over a mostly RVS vote. It's not a hedge either lol. Bad tone too

It's not defensive. The hedge was mostly random/little serious- as in leaving room to go either way with it. In retrospect, I'm ok with it. But I pushed on it to help determine TIMUs alignment.
"Bad tone" is a generic way to call someone scummy without an actual reason. If you'd like others to buy into your tone read, can you describe how the tone was bad? How does it differ from what you expect?

I'm taking the first posts I see to prove the point that

a lot of his shit is extremely scummy.

Do you really want me to make a convincing post?

To answer your question, defensiveness in RVS is scummy as fuck, especially with a tone like that. The tone is that he's desperately struggling for townreads. Strongest word is Desperately.

"A lot of shit extremely scummy" is just speaking in superlatives without, again, saying why or how. I wasn't desperately struggling for tow reads. Quite the opposite- I was being adversarial which obviously attracts scumreads--especially when people aren't used to that.
I think you're just saying shit..and hoping/assuming it won't be questioned. But I really think the entirety of what you've said about me lacks truth and merit. It's a bad look imo

[PantherPunt]

It wasn't flailing. Did I say anything that was nonsensical? That didn't follow a logical train of thought?

And aggression =/= scummy. That's just not true. Wasn't it you, trollie, who said scum would want to blend in and not make waves? Let me go look

[PantherPunt]

PantherPunt stop scumreading everyone who tries to case you

I'm calling out what appear to be scumreads that lack an explanation. Am I not supposed to do that as a townie? I'm just playing to win

[PantherPunt]

You aren't aggressive. You're more just trying to get serious very early on and produce a lot of content. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened.

Also, yes you're flailing. Responding to anyone who makes a case so seriously with a ton of words is flailing.

Trollie called em aggressive. I was responding to that.
I hate RVS and it doesn't seem very smart in a game where it's two votes to hammer.
Sounds like you're saying to have a problem with my playstyle more than anything.

[PantherPunt]

TIMU is being too reckless for scum

Scum in general needs to be careful. He doesn't need to base his case just on my scumplay.

ding ding ding

Trollie- you said mafia wouldn't want to be reckless and would want to be careful.
You say I'm responding to anything and being aggressive.
By your own logic, aren't I defying the behavior you characterize as scum like?

[PantherPunt]

RVS in a game like this is silly. I'll concede there.

However, it's not playstyle. It's the way your trying to respond to everybody, and every single accusation that makes you flailing.

Some of your posts

have a REALLY bad tone to them like you're getting really desperate as fuck.

Point em out point em out point em out.

I'm responding to what I feel is relevant to respond to. Because this is a unique setup that is based on a townie in a group feeling confident they found the other townie in their group. Or feeling confident they found the scum. I think all of my responses are helping me to make those determinations and hopefully everyone else as well.

[PantherPunt]

Aggressiveness =/= Recklessness

In terms of the argument at hand, it's the same-conceptually.

The argument being made was that scum would want to blend in and not be in the spotlight by being confrontational or saying things that would illicit strong reactions or critique. Aggressive and reckless are in the same vein when you're framing this argument imo

[PantherPunt]

The argument being made was that scum would want to blend in and not be in the spotlight by being confrontational or saying things that would illicit strong reactions or critique. Aggressive and reckless are in the same vein when you're framing this argument imo

The heat was

on you

. Every initial response to the cases against you was defensive and accusative, A.K.A. aggressive. It wasn't recklessness, however, because what better way to get heat off of you than to case the person casing you? I

t gives you an easy lynch and a free defense, without really defending yourself at all!

Meanwhile, being reckless would be something like you casing someone on page one without any outside influence pressing you to do so.

The heat wasn't on me. Your vote was "mostly random" and didn't have a case.

I

put the heat on

you

. That was the first bit of heat. I defended myself from weak arguments and questioned the motive of said arguments. That's just good town play. Ps, the underlined makes no sense to me--i don't see how it gives an easy lynch. And you just said I was being defensive but then said I didn't really defend myself at all. ??

[PantherPunt]

Postie- haven't randed scum yet on this site but I'll link you offsite scum and town if that's allowed here. I'm used to shorter phases where I'm from and typically post 50-100 times per RL day there. So it's always a bit of adapting to play here- and people seem to be put off by it

[PantherPunt]

PantherPunt stop scumreading everyone who tries to case you

Aggressiveness =/= Recklessness

I think I'm in love

looks like buddying/pocketing to me. that seems more likely to me than Trollie being pocketed by TIMU.

Trollie has unwaveringly read TIMU as town and me as scum since page 1. I'm used to townies being skeptical of others and having reads that change over time- or at least ask questions to sure them up.

[PantherPunt]

@Maestro

- I never voted for This is my username. and have since unvoted anyways

Fixed my error. Check my rules for voting and unvoting if you have any questions.
~M

[PantherPunt]

For Postie -

2 most recent Scum games:
Won this in LYLO: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/threads/11 ... ou%21-17er
and where I start posting so you can ISO more quickly if you'd like: (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/threads/11 ... post219399)

Other one is about 6 months old, and I think my playstyle has changed. We swept with 7 scum.
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/threads/63 ... Wolf-Mafia
start posting: (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/threads/63 ... post102566)

Town games:
48-player mash so a bit different than a 9er: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/threads/12 ... os-Mash%21
start posting: (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/threads/12 ... post237606)

13 player with daytime shot mechanics: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/threads/11 ... ame-Thread
start posting: (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/threads/11 ... post226404)

[PantherPunt]

For Postie -

2 most recent Scum games:
Won this in LYLO: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... ou%21-17er
and where I start posting so you can ISO more quickly if you'd like: (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... post219399)

Other one is about 6 months old, and I think my playstyle has changed. We swept with 7 scum.
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... Wolf-Mafia
start posting: (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... post102566)

Town games:
48-player mash so a bit different than a 9er: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... os-Mash%21
start posting: (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... post237606)

13 player with daytime shot mechanics: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... ame-Thread
start posting: (http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... post226404)

Edited to fix broken links. Site updated in the last two hours and there were directory modifications

[PantherPunt]

I'm adjusting to the pace of this game you all seem to be comfortable with.

For

TIMU

and

Trollie

- I'm town. Let's hypothetically say you got mod confirmation that I was town--like an Innocent Child reveal or a daytime cop investigation.

Can you show me why the other person is mafia?

(This hypothetical may have significant game value if I am somehow lynched and will get to have a say in a vengekill. But I'm going to fight like hell to just lynch the scum in our group in the first place).

[PantherPunt]

If you're not Mafia, Trollie is Mafia because her content is rather lackluster and lazy compared to mine.

I would call this a rather lackluster and lazy answer.

VOTE: PantherPunt
Mostly RVS,

a little bit serious.

I'm getting bad vibes from his comments on the lurkers.

I didn't really believe the case anyways, it was likely a playstyle thing but seemed worth mentioning.

It got some conversation going, like I wanted.

I know you didn't try to call either of them as scum, what does that even have to do with this?

Postie, would scum actually make a case (underlined) in RVS to create discussion (bolded)? That would be an anti-scum move.

This is a very pingy post.
1.) It's defensive when it didn't seem like defense was necessary.
2.) The logic is poor because scum want to appear towny; so, saying you can't be scum because you engaged in discussion isn't really a valid arguement (and I would contend that I am the one who generated/drove that discussion, but it's moot).
3.) In my experience, the perspective of "If I were scum, I would have/would not have done X" tends to come from scum more often than town. Town don't typically have any reason to think that way. They just say "I was doing X to try to accomplish Y." Not a lock-tell of course. Can you cite any completed town games where you offered this perspective/argument?

[PantherPunt]

What's the big deal about explaining it anyways when you've been asked politely by several people?

Because it's early-on. I simply don't feel like explaining until it's more relevant.

Ranger, I get that it's a little bit early in the game. But, how do you expect anyone to be able to get a read on you if you don't explain your thoughts and how you arrived at your leans? When can we expect this to come?

[PantherPunt]

made a potential perspective-slip

I didn't catch this. Can you point it out to me?

Postie - in looking through your ISO, I realized I didn't respond to this request. Here's where I pointed it out:

[snip]
p-edit: Panther, why are you casing Trollie and I when only one of us can be scum? Who are you most suspicious of?

[snip]

And I know only one of you can be scum. Odd that you didn't add a "from your perspective" caveat to that and could be considered a slip (speaking with a perspective that you KNOW I'm town.) but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there

I am trying to sort out your alignments. Asking questions is how I do that. it may seem aggressive and like I'm scumreading both of you, and that's ok. Its how I'll solve which of you is actually town.

This is nitpicky but I'm a nitpicky player in case anyone hasn't noticed
If she said "Panther, from your perspective, only one of us can be scum." But she didn't say "from your perspective" she just said "only one of us can be scum" which could be a slip. She can say that it should have been clear that she was framing it from my perspective, which is why I said I'd give her the benefit of the doubt on that and that it's not a definitive slip.

[PantherPunt]

Welcome RC. Just went back and looked and realized we didn't actually get to play together in n1626. I replaced in after you already died. That was a..uh..rough one. And actually noticed notmafia was backup mod to that game. So there's two people I have semi past connections to.

Anyways..hope activity picks up.

[PantherPunt]

Also, again
UNVOTE: thetrollie
For the time being
TIMU - what was your name in that game you linked?

[PantherPunt]

Didn't think it was ok to post before having a role PM. But apparently that's ok here

[PantherPunt]

No, I haven't, but I would consider both Trollie and TIMU confirmed scum if I didn't already know that only one of them was scum and I'm townreading him independently.

Does he have a super scary scumgame that I should be worried about?

Lol I subbed in n1626 after pisskop pushed your buttons. I completely wrecked him and idiot town lynched me over him.
Also, I'm having a damn hard time with my group because I agree- they are both uber scummy so it's a game of find the townie and it's hard AF.

Like you're free flowing entry..and already had a pretty significant scum read on Ranger so :thumb:

[PantherPunt]

Hey Postie you were just online, but you didn't post in here. What gives?

Hi. I came in, saw a "first post" and a "Sup" and wanted to add something productive. Couldn't think of anything, so I decided to read Shortnight in case there was anything useful to be learned from it.

I want to RVS vote someone but I'm paranoid that a legit VI will hammer after not reading the set-up.

RQS anyone...? You're scum; what's your plan for this game? Go!

For the record this doesn't even make sense.
If a VI hammers and you didn't selfvote the hammer would by default be on scum.

LOL didn't even catch that

[PantherPunt]

Kts your attempt at casing me earlier though was pretty ridiculous and stretchy.
Have to review you and Postie tomorrow tbh. Postie has posted well...but my issue that I previously haven't voiced is that she just was asking question after question. Putting the onus on others to say content-laden things and kind of skating along the periphery/background herself.
Kts made some pretty bad posts but was putting himself out there aggressively.

[PantherPunt]

To paraphrase Ranger: "I'm going to do something incredibly anti-town by voting myself, which means for sure that the person who then votes me must be scum, because there's not way a town player would be suspicious of me."

This x100. Ranger, I think is going to flip scum. If town, that play was terrible, and your reads are terrible.

Rhaegar is going to flip town. That's extremely apparent.

[PantherPunt]

Like Rhaegar is scum defending her buddy from the grave, no one but scum who doesn't know the setup (which Not_Mafia probably was, seeing as he never posted) would hammer there.

So how do you say this with a straight face and also think Killthestory is town? Since he said he wouldn't hammer and then did it anyways 2 posts later?

[PantherPunt]

2 minutes later, as well

[PantherPunt]

PantherPunt is a top scumread because from the get-go, he's been ridiculously obvious scum; he is the xRECKONERx of this game. His later posting did

not

change this for me, at all.

No reasoning just use of emphatic words. Clear scum tactic.

[PantherPunt]

And, yes, I will defend the self-vote as a valid tactic.
It confirmed Not_Mafia as scum, and Radiant as town.
I get to control a vengekill, which means no matter who you lynch, I get to shoot at whatever scum lives through the day.
For instance, it's always possible you lynch Rhaegar and he's town, in which case I'd vengekill Killthestory since, again, Postie is obviously town.
Or maybe you're idiots and lynch Killthestory and he's town, so kill Rhaegar to get that scum flip.
No need to vengekill Not_Mafia, since he's confirmed scum already; the only way I'm vengekilling Not_Mafia is if both the other groups lynch their mafiate.

hmmm. This post gives me a bit of pause actually. This is a very good post if Ranger is scum because it shows a thought-out thought process of town reasoning vengekill targets.

[PantherPunt]

VOTE: this is my username

Trollie seems to have an extremely firm townread on TIMU. I mean he said "TIMU 100% Town" and "I think I'm in love." So this vote gets me killed most likely, but I think TIMU is the scum in my group.

And I'm not going to just vote Trollie on the basis that I have a better chance of appealing to scum!TIMU to vote that way.

So it appears I'm in a damned if I do, damned if I don't scenario here. But honestly, this game has been such an ugly mess of bad play I'll be happy to wash my hands of it either way.

But Trollie - Please take your time and review the posting from TIMU and I.

[PantherPunt]

And if we do lynch scum!TIMU I'm always the one of us that mafia vengekills. I'm the vocal threat who will have had the (more) correct reads, all things considered.

[PantherPunt]

So, it's up to Trollie. But I'm never seeing Day 2 here. Good luck good luck

[PantherPunt]

TIMU must die

I want to just be done with this game, but in the case that Ranger is town, this makes me very hesitant....

WIFOM and all that though I guess?

[PantherPunt]

I'd make a convincing case on someone else in my group as scum, like a Town would try to do.

I didn't really believe the case anyways, it was likely a playstyle thing but seemed worth mentioning. It got some conversation going, like I wanted.

I know you didn't try to call either of them as scum, what does that even have to do with this?

Lol Postie you are back to saying my opening couple posts are a reason for voting me?

After you said you didnt really believe your own case and we're just trying to get discussion going?

[PantherPunt]

Lol TIMU*

Not Postie. My b

[PantherPunt]

I think Trollie is Town, her somewhat lazy posts seem to just be playstyle.

I'm scumreading Panther because he looks like struggling scum in response to scumreads to him, in addition to awkwards posts before my RVS case.

Like how do you go back and forth that many times about how you read the same posts?

Town read posts a certain way. Maybe they reconsider later. They don't go back and forth contradicting themselves repeatedly. You're burnt

[PantherPunt]

My gut says trollie is town or he'd just have stated some reasons and hammered one of the two of us while we were cross voting.

Like as mafia he just had to give a few brief clauses as to why he thought one of the two of us looked scummy and dropped the hammer.

But he didn't do that.

[PantherPunt]

Can't make any sense of TIMU voting and unvoting repeatedly.

Doesn't make any sense from a town perspective in my opinion, and so it looks like a last ditch effort to be townread.

[PantherPunt]

Like literally as soon as TIMU was hammered you started calling me out as scum.
I mean I don't feel like having this argument out because I feel like your scumgame is pretty terrible and I'd have figured it out by now but whatevs.

Assuming this is in fact a triple town flip my picks for scum would be:

NM/KillTheStory/Trollie

If Ranger is the only scum flip like I suspect that doubles down on all of those reads.
If Rhaegar flips town like I expect him to please venge KTS for the love of Annie.

I couldn't say "This." any more adamantly

If RC and Postie are scum they deserve to win imo. Because hot damn ranger and TIMU played like hot garbage shit if town

[PantherPunt]

Blacklisting self voters. town self implode but mafia took advantage of it so gg I guess

[PantherPunt]

say whatever you want but you played against wincon ultimately. "Oh well self hammering proved someone else was scum" obviously no it fucking didn't.

Bush league