Micro 596: Longnight Mafia [GAME OVER]

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first post

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I've played with the entirety of Group One.

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VOTE: PantherPunt
Mostly RVS, a little bit serious. I'm getting bad vibes from his comments on the lurkers.

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Not a bad way to start the game up, but you'll need a more productive question than that. Unless I'm reading it wrong, but it seems obvious what the answer to it would be.

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Well everyone would answer something like 'My plan for the game is to catch scum.'

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Ooooooooooooooh.

If I was scum I think the best thing to do would be to try and keep everyone alive for the initial lynch, like what scum did last game. It worked there.

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The entire scum team. The initial lynch is the lynches of Day One.

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I'd make a convincing case on someone else in my group as scum, like a Town would try to do.

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His comments on the lurkers seem forced, but it could be a playstyle thing.

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I didn't really believe the case anyways, it was likely a playstyle thing but seemed worth mentioning. It got some conversation going, like I wanted.

I know you didn't try to call either of them as scum, what does that even have to do with this?

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It is a playstyle thing because most people would try to create content rather than inviting others to do it for them.
...wait that's what scum would do

hmm

Anyways, the original case was simply that I found it weird that someone would call out others on lurking on Page One because I've never seen anyone do that before at the beginning of the game. Hence, it seemed forced.

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What do you think about PantherPunt, Postie?

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A good way to invite others to pop in is to create content on your own. How much experience do you have in Mafia?

No, I knew you weren't calling them scummy, I'm sorry for the confusion. To make my thought process more clear, it just didn't seem like Town would call people out for lurking this early in the game.

p-edit: Panther, why are you casing Trollie and I when only one of us can be scum? Who are you most suspicious of?

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Alright, so you should know that in RVS, asking lurkers to stop lurking when you're not doing anything productive yourself is anti-Town. Then why would you have done it?

You didn't answer my question. Which of us are you must suspicious of?

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So you're nullreading everything. Fair enough in ED1, I suppose.

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Messed up, more like it isn't fit for a Town mindset to ask other people to post without having any productive content.

Telling people not to self-hammer isn't productive, I'm pretty sure all of us know how to do that already. Knowing whether we're played with others is the game is useless information as well. You haven't posted any

productive

content, you do have content.

Well, you avoided my question entirely when I first asked it. I'm interested in knowing your reads so I can comment on them. And Trollie has the V/LA banner, does his rather lazy post feel less suspicious with that information?

What is there to say about that? I misspoke.

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I messed up, it isn't anti-Town but it wouldn't come from a Town mindset IMO. Town would want to try and be productive, whether that means ED1 casing or asking questions. Panther did the latter but it has no relevance on the game so I can't really credit him with it. Meanwhile, Mafia would to look productive without really doing much. Like what PantherPunt did.

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Scum in general needs to be careful. He doesn't need to base his case just on my scumplay.

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Actually,
{This is my username}
{TheTrollie, Postie}
{Rhaegar}
{Killthestory}
{PantherPunt}

This is more accurate.

Have you seriously constructed a read list that includes a 0-poster and someone who has only ego-posted?
Or is this not a T>S read list and instead something else?

Why do you paint everyone who's suspicious of you as scummy?

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No. The 'seriously' in your post implied suspicion.

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No. The 'seriously' in your post implied suspicion.

Incredulity. Not a scum read. As in "how the hell do you rank order someone who hasn't posted?"

Alright. I think he put down Rhaeger because everyone else in Group 2 posted so he wanted to complete the list.

p-edit: my scumread of PP has nothing to do with the post about lurking

[/u]
You made a scum read on me in post 27. If that had nothing to do with the post about lurking, please tell me EXACTLY what on the first page incited a scum read. Thanks

nah.

Don't do this, answer his question. This isn't useful at all.

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TIMU thanks for humoring my inquisition

Huh?

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That isn't a bad point, Panther.

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PantherPunt stop scumreading everyone who tries to case you

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PantherPunt stop scumreading everyone who tries to case you

I'm calling out what appear to be scumreads that lack an explanation. Am I not supposed to do that as a townie? I'm just playing to win

If you want explanation ask for it, it worked with Trollie. It's not a good way to scumread someone.

You aren't aggressive. You're more just trying to get serious very early on and produce a lot of content. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened.

Also, yes you're flailing. Responding to anyone who makes a case so seriously with a ton of words is flailing.

Trollie called em aggressive. I was responding to that.
I hate RVS and it doesn't seem very smart in a game where it's two votes to hammer.
Sounds like you're saying to have a problem with my playstyle more than anything.

Does it not seem very smart because it worked to create discussion and catch a scum?

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Aggressiveness =/= Recklessness

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The argument being made was that scum would want to blend in and not be in the spotlight by being confrontational or saying things that would illicit strong reactions or critique. Aggressive and reckless are in the same vein when you're framing this argument imo

The heat was

on you

. Every initial response to the cases against you was defensive and accusative, A.K.A. aggressive. It wasn't recklessness, however, because what better way to get heat off of you than to case the person casing you? It gives you an easy lynch and a free defense, without really defending yourself at all!

Meanwhile, being reckless would be something like you casing someone on page one without any outside influence pressing you to do so.

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V/LA for about 16 hours, will not be able to post in that time at all.

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I'm back.

Ego ego bo bego
Banana fana fo fego
Fee fi mo mego

excellent content-post

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I'm adjusting to the pace of this game you all seem to be comfortable with.

For

TIMU

and

Trollie

- I'm town. Let's hypothetically say you got mod confirmation that I was town--like an Innocent Child reveal or a daytime cop investigation.

Can you show me why the other person is mafia?

(This hypothetical may have significant game value if I am somehow lynched and will get to have a say in a vengekill. But I'm going to fight like hell to just lynch the scum in our group in the first place).

If you're not Mafia, Trollie is Mafia because her content is rather lackluster and lazy compared to mine.

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Ok so my RVS case was safe then?

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VOTE: PantherPunt
Mostly RVS,

a little bit serious.

I'm getting bad vibes from his comments on the lurkers.

I didn't really believe the case anyways, it was likely a playstyle thing but seemed worth mentioning.

It got some conversation going, like I wanted.

I know you didn't try to call either of them as scum, what does that even have to do with this?

Postie, would scum actually make a case (underlined) in RVS to create discussion (bolded)? That would be an anti-scum move.

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Also, Not_Mafia, there's been more than 24 hours and you're not on V/LA. When are you going to post?

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Because he hasn't posted any content, and they have.

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But, how do you expect anyone to be able to get a read on you if you don't explain your thoughts and how you arrived at your leans?

By looking at my lists and guessing how I came to construct them that way.

Ranger explained his reads clearly in Shortnight, when he was Town.

[snip]
p-edit: Panther, why are you casing Trollie and I when only one of us can be scum? Who are you most suspicious of?

[snip]

And I know only one of you can be scum. Odd that you didn't add a "from your perspective" caveat to that and could be considered a slip (speaking with a perspective that you KNOW I'm town.) but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there

I am trying to sort out your alignments. Asking questions is how I do that. it may seem aggressive and like I'm scumreading both of you, and that's ok. Its how I'll solve which of you is actually town.

This is nitpicky but I'm a nitpicky player in case anyone hasn't noticed
If she said "Panther, from your perspective, only one of us can be scum." But she didn't say "from your perspective" she just said "only one of us can be scum" which could be a slip. She can say that it should have been clear that she was framing it from my perspective, which is why I said I'd give her the benefit of the doubt on that and that it's not a definitive slip.[/quote]
Pronoun: He

2.) The logic is poor because scum want to appear towny; so, saying you can't be scum because you engaged in discussion isn't really a valid arguement (and I would contend that I am the one who generated/drove that discussion, but it's moot).
3.) In my experience, the perspective of "If I were scum, I would have/would not have done X" tends to come from scum more often than town. Town don't typically have any reason to think that way. They just say "I was doing X to try to accomplish Y." Not a lock-tell of course. Can you cite any completed town games where you offered this perspective/argument?

Scum would not want to try and advance RVS. Generating discussion as scum would be anti-scum. A much better option would be to lurk until someone else creates content, or they could post random things that look useful but aren't really.
There is one I can think of, but it's rather early in my Mafia career. I'll link it:
http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.p ... opic=58266

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messed up the quote, oops

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I disagree with you but will not be able to convince you otherwise, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Not_Mafia, you are the worst scum I've ever played with lol

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Like Rhaegar is scum defending her buddy from the grave, no one but scum who doesn't know the setup (which Not_Mafia probably was, seeing as he never posted) would hammer there.

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Also Panther, I was Clarinets in that game. Should've mentioned that, sorry.

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right probably should mention the quickhammer

I highly doubt KTS would've quickhammered as scum, because that is not an awful way to stay alive as scum. If Rhaegar flips Town, though, we obviously lynch him.

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That is* an awful way to stay alive as scum.

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but you're scum, why are you scumhunting

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Panther is scum for sure. He's defending Not_Mafia, who quickhammered Ranger for seemingly no reason after he selfvoted with a strategy that is, IMO, pretty smart.

Why are we trying to defend him again?

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What are your reads Not_Mafia?

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great reads

I'd like some explanation on the Ranger read, and I already understand yours on me. I don't really know how to answer your scumbuddies question.

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Also, when/if I'm lynched, who in Group One would you be most suspicious of?

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I assume that discussion occurred before he quickhammered Rhaegar? Great find.

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Radiant, why do you believe Panther is Town?

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right probably should mention the quickhammer

I highly doubt KTS would've quickhammered as scum, because that is not an awful way to stay alive as scum. If Rhaegar flips Town, though, we obviously lynch him.

thats not how this works

You know what I mean

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I think Trollie is Town, her somewhat lazy posts seem to just be playstyle.

I'm scumreading Panther because he looks like struggling scum in response to scumreads to him, in addition to awkwards posts before my RVS case.

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In addition, Panther's not heavily scumreading Not_Mafia for his quickhammer like he should be.

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why is nobody posting

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The ones who have have posted recently disagreed with why Not_Mafia is scum for his quickhammer or haven't mentioned it so I feel like no one believes the case.

He's scum for it because...
1. Ranger would not have selfvoted as Mafia. That'd be stupid and anti-scum. Someone brought up that it's anti-town as well but it was used smartly to catch a scum here.
2. Ranger's reasoning behind her reads will remain unknown until postgame now. Only scum would want that.
3. Town would not quickhammer ever at all in Not_Mafia's situation. If you found his self-vote scummy, then you would ask him about it not

vote him

as Town. There is literally no Town benefit to quickhammering Ranger like that, and how you could see it that way baffles me.
4. Not_Mafia hadn't posted any reads until the quickhammer, so even if he claims to scumread Ranger it is just way forced and bad and needs to be vengekilled/lynched.

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are you all

seriously

not scumreading Not_Mafia

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Someone brought up that it's anti-town as well but it was used smartly to catch a scum here.

What? It was only used to "catch a scum" if Ranger isn't scum. If Ranger is scum, this means nothing.

Are you serious? Ranger is Town.

The ones who have have posted recently disagreed with why Ranger is scum for his self vote or haven't mentioned it so I feel like no one believes the case.

He's scum for it because...
1. Ranger would not have selfvoted as Town. That'd be stupid and anti-town. Someone brought up that it's anti-scum as well but it was used smartly to frame a town here.
2. Ranger's reasoning behind her reads will remain unknown until postgame now. Only scum would want that.
3. Town would not self vote ever at all in Ranger's situation. If you found a RC Towny, then you would ask him about it not selfvote as Town. There is literally no Town benefit to selfvoting Ranger like that, and how you could see it that way baffles me.
4. Not_Mafia hadn't posted any reads until the self vote, so even if Ranger claims to scumread Not_Mafia it is just way forced and bad and needed to be lynched.

Extremely clever defense post but you messed up with point four, that's reason for Ranger to be Town. Really shows your

dedication

to this case.

I'd make a convincing case on someone else in my group as scum, like a Town would try to do.

I didn't really believe the case anyways, it was likely a playstyle thing but seemed worth mentioning. It got some conversation going, like I wanted.

I know you didn't try to call either of them as scum, what does that even have to do with this?

Lol Postie you are back to saying my opening couple posts are a reason for voting me?

After you said you didnt really believe your own case and we're just trying to get discussion going?

How is your way of getting discussion going beneficial to Town?

I think Trollie is Town, her somewhat lazy posts seem to just be playstyle.

I'm scumreading Panther because he looks like struggling scum in response to scumreads to him, in addition to awkwards posts before my RVS case.

Like how do you go back and forth that many times about how you read the same posts?

Town read posts a certain way. Maybe they reconsider later. They don't go back and forth contradicting themselves repeatedly. You're burnt

Or, I agree with the points Trollie? Rhaegar? made that your announcing you're Town post looks scummy.

Postie, why were you townreading TIMU over Trollie?

Literally just gut. They're both awful and I can't read them.

I assume you mean scummy awful?

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Panther, you said you were new to small games like this, right?

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Not_Mafia can you actually contribute something useful

You don't even have a read on Group KTS's scum.

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It was a bad hammer, I agree.

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Didn't Panther say he was new to small games like this?

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I can't find it but I think he did.

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UNVOTE: PantherPunt
I need to see his response to this.

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Didn't Panther say he was new to small games like this?

Relevance?

It's relevant. Can't tell you why yet, sorry.

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Anyone calling me obvious scum:
give a reason, make a case. I haven't seen reasons yet, just "Panther is scum" so I'm inclined to think all 3 scum are pushing that and others may be falling victim to perceived "thread consensus"

wait nevermind
VOTE: PantherPunt

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I simply cannot see the post I quoted coming from a Town mindset, no matter how experienced that player is.

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Town would not have any reason to ask for a case on them to be explained. Scum would want to do that to defend themselves.

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but stuff like 431 can't come to LyLo

Agreed. Trollie, once you're done posting your thoughts hammer me, don't worry about lynching the scum. Even though you're probably scum since I scumread Panther.
UNVOTE: PantherPunt

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Rewording it because I don't like how I said it previously.

I should be lynched because I'd be a liability in LyLo due to my awful cases.

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Trollie do you have anything else to say?

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Actually, does

anyone else

have anything to say?

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Should I selfhammer or wait for Trollie to hammer? I feel like he has nothing else to say.

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Can't make any sense of TIMU voting and unvoting repeatedly.

Doesn't make any sense from a town perspective in my opinion, and so it looks like a last ditch effort to be townread.

Well, PantherPunt shared his thoughts on it. That's everyone, so
VOTE: This is my username

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No. Discuss who I should vengekill!

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I was joking. I'm not going to listen to your opinions on who I should vengekill.

When Ranger flips Town, remember to lynch Not_Mafia. If Rhaegar flips Town, she'll probably vengekill KTS so don't worry about that. And finally, I will vengekill the scum in this group.

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oh

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well now I regret hammering

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ah well, we can just vengekill in Group Three, the scum in Group One and Two are rather obvious at this point.

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Actually, since we lose if we vengekill wrong if we're all Town, we'd have to vengekill an obvscum. Not worth the risk, lynching in Group Three. It'd be better to let them make more content.

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Complaining about me scumreading you or my idea in the first place?

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Complaining about me scumreading you or my idea in the first place?

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lol Panther, Ranger didn't play poorly

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I wasn't planning on venging Panther, don't worry.

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TIMU, hypothetical Rnager scum flip, who do you venge?

Trollie because KTS is scum if Rhaegar is Town and Panther is more likely Town than them.

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Wow, did not expect RadiantCowbells to flip scum.

GG, I played poorly I apologize for that. The fact that Not_Mafia was, well, not mafia was surprising.

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Honestly despite being wrong about the majority of his reads I think Ranger played the best this game. Granted, I got to see all the content he put in the Twilight PT.

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She*, sorry Ranger

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I'm fine with blacklisting me but blacklisting Ranger is an awful idea. Do you really think she could've predicted that when she self-voted, Not_Mafia (who had been lurking at the time) would've voted her to hammer her because he genuinely thought she was scum?

Not_Mafia played poorly this game, and was obvscum because of it. Don't blame that on Ranger for setting up that trap.

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You don't get to say "he was confirmed scum" when a) I wasn't scum and b) Only you and Ranger were scumreading me for it. The trap was fine, the problem was running the game in to the ground with the black and white hammer=scum mentatlity.

The point was that Ranger doesn't deserve to be blacklisted. And you were obvscum, but Town, which is actually pretty impressive.

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I explained why already.

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But that's always the case.