New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Egg]

Drmy, what were you referncing with your first post?

Vote Ircher

For posts 11 and 12. I've never liked it when people stress that votes on them are RVS. And the post before it feels nervous about being voted while trying not to convey that.

Copper, which of Ircher's posts on Page 1 gave you the "sure of himself" vibe?

Ircher's OMGUS crusade against drmy is pretty bad.

I lost brain cells reading the probability discussion on Page 3.

I've got at least some level of a town read on drmy, copper, zakk, and Magna (in that order). That's as of the end of Page 3. Will say so if that changes.

Killthestory, you said you know your alignment now. What is it?

Acknowledging that an Ircher wagon exists. I'm gonna keep my vote there.

[Egg]

Drmy mentioned that he's good at playing scum (why bring that up if he's scum?). You turned it into the whole "how often is he scum" thing which is the part that was weird because it's only relevant if you are looking for how accurate his win % is (obviously more games would make it more representitive of his play and less would have the opposite effect) or if you are looking for meta (I didn't get that impression).

Preview edit:
The above is at Ircher.

Also Ircher, can you clarify your question? I never brought up "general chit chat" or whatever "NAI" means. And yes, drmy asked copper about his vote. The fact that you answered instead is what makes it feel jumpy.

[Egg]

Killthestory, then why didn't you answer directly? And why didn't you say you were town the first time you brought it up? How often would you say you lie as scum?

Ircher, "1" is correct and obviously wasn't my point. And I disagree with your "2" or I wouldn't be voting you.

[Egg]

No, it's not a fact. Reads, by definition, are based on opinions. My opinion is that the votes on you are stressing you out which at this stage in the game tends to indicate scum, especially if you are the type of player who prefers to be town.

And I already showed you the difference between his statistics and yours. Stop pretending I didn't.

Preview edit: Humor me and answer anyway.

[Egg]

Ircher, I've gone into as much detail as I possibly can.

To be honest, I'd be pretty ok with speedlynching Ircher and Killthestory already...

[Egg]

Actually, yeah, considering the whole "drmy is scum more than normal" thing, mentioning only having two scum games looks pretty bad too.

[Egg]

Titus, which Ircher votes do you think are RVS?

[Egg]

Ircher, of course I want the focus on you. I think you're scum. That was a pretty lame attack.

Killthestory, it's not the fact that you didn't answer. I asked because I had suspicions. Your answers could have swayed me the other way. You chose not to answer. I kept my suspicions.

[Egg]

Well, if you hadn't realized you didn't directly answer and chose to do so and then showed me past games where you lied your ass off as scum (one of probably many examples) then yeah I'd be swayed.

Preview edit: I disagree. I like my points against you. Titus' Copper case is halfway decent but when she made it, I didn't want to switch because I felt more strongly about you being scum. Now, the fact that my top two scum reads are on the wagon makes me even less likely to switch. For what it's worth, I believe that it's a case Titus could honestly believe in.

[Egg]

i honestly don't understand egg.

like telling you I'm town apparently has to mean I'm town rite?

Not even close. It's the way you danced around it twice.

[Egg]

I'll bite.

Why?

[Egg]

Projectmatt, I didn't get that impression, but pressure isn't a bad thing so I'll let it roll for now.

Copper, what is your read on projectmatt? Why don't you think the more serious Ircher votes (drmy and myself mostly) ended RVS as opposed to Titus' vote on you? Why do you think scum are less likely than town to come up with the ".5%" comment? I feel like a lot of scum come off more confident in their reads because the whole point is to present them in a persuasive manner rather than actually be right. I was kind of thinking that when I asked you why Ircher seemed more confident to you. I'm not sure if Ircher would be confident scum or not though so I'm not sure if it's a strong point or a null one. I definitely don't see it as a town tell though so I'm curious to hear your side

Seth could be scum for the Page 7 RVS vote on the wagon with the most momentum. If Copper is scum, the vote is null. The "this is getting stupid" comment after being voted is iffy too. Yikes, and the wanting everyone else to scumhunt for him. Is this my third scum found?

Seth, this is game theory more than anything, but the whole point about scum and any SK not wanting to lynch each other is one way to look at it, but after 8 years of playing this game, I've seen it to be just plain wrong. If you can eliminate the chance of being NK'd as scum, you can afford to play the towniest day game possible and cruise to victory. As scum or SK, you ALWAYS want NKing roles and factions dead. Oh, and I agree with Copper that if you claim SK, we could use you as a vig.

Thebrawl's response to projectmatt was pretty much what I expected and the point about Ircher wanting to defend against six cases over scumhunting makes perfect sense. It looks like a load of busywork on Ircher's part. I think I'm considering Thebrawl a weak town read for now.

Drmy, that scum team guess is...different? Do you really think we started off wagoning two scum with a third being the one to start one of those wagons? And why is zakk third party?

This really reads as a SK claim.

And your post really reads as scum who honestly thinks they have the SK pegged. Can you tell me why you'd rather lynch SK than mafia?

I'm trying to figure out what to make of Persivul's asking for normal ratios for a large. Either he is town who is genuinely curious or he's scum who is either looking for town points or wondering about the number of scum teams. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Lowell, I can usually follow your reasoning for your reads better than a lot of people can, but your thoughts are so far off from my own here. Can you give 2-3 sentences to explain your reads on Titus, Persivul, Thebrawl, and Seth? Also, have you played with Titus before?

ETL, I hope you'll explain the tell after people with enough time to do so themselves have had enough opportunity.

Titus, why do you have an issue with drmy keeping his reasoning to himself, but apparently not ETL doing the same with her meta point? As I read more, I see you answered this, but I think it's pretty clear drmy was just taking a shot at ETL with that post.

Magna, you said you were trying to read ETL with that question. What did you decide?

I don't understand this Magna wagon. Or the ETL/drmy/Titus arguement. All three look pretty town.

[Egg]

Projectmatt, I didn't get that impression, but pressure isn't a bad thing so I'll let it roll for now.

Copper, what is your read on projectmatt? Why don't you think the more serious Ircher votes (drmy and myself mostly) ended RVS as opposed to Titus' vote on you? Why do you think scum are less likely than town to come up with the ".5%" comment? I feel like a lot of scum come off more confident in their reads because the whole point is to present them in a persuasive manner rather than actually be right. I was kind of thinking that when I asked you why Ircher seemed more confident to you. I'm not sure if Ircher would be confident scum or not though so I'm not sure if it's a strong point or a null one. I definitely don't see it as a town tell though so I'm curious to hear your side

Seth could be scum for the Page 7 RVS vote on the wagon with the most momentum. If Copper is scum, the vote is null. The "this is getting stupid" comment after being voted is iffy too. Yikes, and the wanting everyone else to scumhunt for him. Is this my third scum found?

Seth, this is game theory more than anything, but the whole point about scum and any SK not wanting to lynch each other is one way to look at it, but after 8 years of playing this game, I've seen it to be just plain wrong. If you can eliminate the chance of being NK'd as scum, you can afford to play the towniest day game possible and cruise to victory. As scum or SK, you ALWAYS want NKing roles and factions dead. Oh, and I agree with Copper that if you claim SK, we could use you as a vig.

Thebrawl's response to projectmatt was pretty much what I expected and the point about Ircher wanting to defend against six cases over scumhunting makes perfect sense. It looks like a load of busywork on Ircher's part. I think I'm considering Thebrawl a weak town read for now.

Drmy, that scum team guess is...different? Do you really think we started off wagoning two scum with a third being the one to start one of those wagons? And why is zakk third party?

This really reads as a SK claim.

And your post really reads as scum who honestly thinks they have the SK pegged. Can you tell me why you'd rather lynch SK than mafia?

I'm trying to figure out what to make of Persivul's asking for normal ratios for a large. Either he is town who is genuinely curious or he's scum who is either looking for town points or wondering about the number of scum teams. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Lowell, I can usually follow your reasoning for your reads better than a lot of people can, but your thoughts are so far off from my own here. Can you give 2-3 sentences to explain your reads on Titus, Persivul, Thebrawl, and Seth? Also, have you played with Titus before?

ETL, I hope you'll explain the tell after people with enough time to do so themselves have had enough opportunity.

Titus, why do you have an issue with drmy keeping his reasoning to himself, but apparently not ETL doing the same with her meta point? As I read more, I see you answered this, but I think it's pretty clear drmy was just taking a shot at ETL with that post.

Magna, you said you were trying to read ETL with that question. What did you decide?

I don't understand this Magna wagon. Or the ETL/drmy/Titus arguement. All three look pretty town.

[Egg]

Copper, saying you have extreme certainty in a read is clearly expressing confidence. To be fair though, drmy is doing the same with Ircher and I doubt they are both scum so maybe it's null. But to answer your question more completely if you're still wondering, people are more likely to sheep someone who is confident than someone who isn't sure of themself. Therefore, yeah, conveying confidence is persuasive. Think back to any vote you've ever sheeped. Was the person confident? My guess is most of the time, yes. I agree that it's a heavily exaggarated statement from a statistics point of view, but it absolutely displays confidence. I'd go as far as to call it overconfidence.

And yeah, if Ircher is scum, I'd be shocked to find out Seth is his buddy after that SK accusation.

[Egg]

I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed. Day 1 is about lynching the scummiest player regardless though. Can you tell me why Ircher is so obvtown?

[Egg]

I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed. Day 1 is about lynching the scummiest player regardless though. Can you tell me why Ircher is so obvtown?

[Egg]

Meh. Can you at least see how confidence would look persuasive to most people though?

Example, which would get more votes:
"Guys, Egg is obvscum. Trust me. I'm very sure on this. I've played with him a ton and my reasons are as follows......"
Or
"I dunno. Egg looks kinda scummy I guess. He could still be town though. Meh, I guess the following are pretty decent points...."

I'm guessing the first.

[Egg]

ETL, meh, same thing in my opinion. town as fuck (guessing that's what af means) and obvtown both express a strong read. But anyway, you say he was "trying". Trying to do what? What about his effort reads as town and not scum?

Titus, I disagree with the idea that only scum have "different" scum team ideas. Do I really have to bring up Inuyasha mafia where you were the only one interested in lynching the claimed friendly neighbor Y+B and the person claiming to get their confirmation BBMolla? Not only were you town, but you were right which amazes me to this day. I also don't think drmy's joke was some plan with an ulterior motive to make ETL look bad. I think he was just poking fun at her.

Copper, this is weird but I think we are on the same page and really far off at the same time. But as long as we understand what the other is saying, I think we'regood because otherwise it turns into an obnoxious semantics battle that goes in circles.

[Egg]

Hmm. I don't agree with most of your logic, but I don't really see a ton of conclusions I disagree with and I believe that you believe in those reads.

Questions:
-What about Persivul's Magna push did you like and why don't you feel similarly about Lowell's Magna push?
-Why do you refer to Ircher as a newb when he said he's completed 15 or so games? (And yes I realize you aren't the first to do this). Does your read rely on him being new?
-Can you come up with a read on Seth if you ISO him?

[Egg]

Interesting.

Still though, zakk is town this time

[Egg]

i keep seeing DGB, zito, and reck, with every post he makes.

this is the biggest compliment I have ever got, I'm literally in tears

I think he meant your avatar.

[Egg]

OMG IT IS

[Egg]

For projectmatt, my reads in order:

Town reads:
ETL
Zakk
Drmy
Projectmatt

Weak town:
Persivul
Titus
Thebrawl
Copper
Magna

Null:
heuristically_alone
Desmond
Anen
I am innocent
Nosferatu

Weak scum:
Lowell
Alban

Scum reads:
Cytheflyguy
Seth
Killthestory
Ircher

And you asked me about zakk. I just saw his scum game and if he deliberately changed his meta over the course of a week or two, he's done an amazing job of it. I think it's much more likely this is town zakk

[Egg]

Seth, see post 315. I didn't like your RVS vote on a wagon with momentum on Page 7. If Copper flips scum, as I acknowledged, this would be null. I also pointed out your reaction to being voted and something you said that sounded like you expect everyone else to scumhunt for you.

Projectmatt, my concerns with Lowell are still the same as I said in post 316. I can usually follow his thought process better than most people and a lot of the time even agree with his reads. Here, it's just different. Specifically, I don't know where he's coming from on Titus, Persivul, Thebrawl, and Seth. I asked him to go into more detail, but he hasn't posted yet since I asked. And as for my weak town read on Titus, see post 144 where I said I believe that she believes in her case. That seems like town Titus, assuming there isn't a second scum team she's hunting. The way she's going after drmy about ETL reads as town Titus too even though the whole arguement seems a bit ridiculous to me.

Anen, I'm curious what meta point you think you have on me. My 103 is null at best. It's just me catching up. I hope you're not scum just looking for a reason for an easy town read on me. You've seen me play well as scum so you not being paranoid of me has me worried that your town read might not be genuine. Although I think you did it last game too and I didn't question it because you were already obvtown when I replaced in. So maybe I'm overthinking it. Also, on drmy and zakk, is early noise really a scumtell?

[Egg]

I'm not sure I consider the cythefly votes lazy. They have merit. Like his Ircher vote was definitely lazy, but only scummy if Ircher is town. So if you are townreading Ircher, I understand dropping your current vote to switch. Otherwise, you're in my boat where it stood out my I still think Ircher is scum so I stayed put.

So let's look at the people who voted cythefly:
Zakk -First vote on the wagon and was townreading Ircher. Just spoke about looking for lazy scum voting Ircher so this vote makes sense. I did just notice, however, that zakk's vote was on Ircher so I have to ask: What changed between the vote and your calling him town? It's possible this was an outdated vote and zakk was looking for a place to vote which makes the cythefly vote even more fitting. But why leave the Ircher vote for so long?

Titus - Titus hasn't been shy about townreading Ircher, so it makes sense for her to scum read such a lazy Ircher hop. I definitely get this vote

Projectmatt - Called Ircher town in his first vote. Acknowledged that part of the Thebrawl vote was pressure, so maybe that was getting stale. This one makes sense too. The only reason to call it scummy is because it follows the first two so immediately which is shaky reasoning at best

Seth- Even this one is fine. He asks questions and even says he'll unvote if he sees a good reason for cythefly's vote.

So overall, the wagon is fine in my opinion. The only thing I'm wondering is if these four votes are all town, why hasn't scum jumped on such an easy wagon? It very easily could be because cythefly is scum.

Preview edit: Heur's vote, I can go either way on. One question for Heur though. What is your read on Ircher? I don't really see anything in your ISO that answers that and that makes me think you could be his buddy considering how widely he's been discussed.

[Egg]

The following heur posts look like a soft defense of Ircher, yet he never directly calls Ircher town: 400, 402, 403
^I missed this skimming his ISO. Also don't like his "must be doing something right" towards being hard to read. If you're town, don't you WANT people to be able to read you?

[Egg]

Expedience, that was probably Anen's post but can you explain why you don't like that from Copper?

[Egg]

Cythefly, give me three players most likely to be scum and why.

[Egg]

Ircher, town is guilty of confirmation bias and tunneling just as much, if not more than, scum. I mean, if that's even what drmy is doing. I'm not so sure he is. He's a pretty self aware player and if he was doing that, I think he'd have the sense to take a step back.

Expedience, when you're caught up, can you summarize with a reads list, or at least scum reads and opinions on anyone who has been wagoned?

[Egg]

Expedience, how are you null on Ircher and myself? Why is projectmatt scum? You're townreading ETL, so I must have misunderstood what you meant when you said her discussion with Magna felt "set up" so can you clarify that? And finally, any reason you used my exact format for a reads list?

[Egg]

Ok I'm satisfied.

[Egg]

Gonna catch up later. bed time

[Egg]

I agree with Titus, ETL. If you think she's coaching Ircher because they are scum together, Ircher is the better lynch today. If he flips scum, you can tell us all about this coaching. As of right now, it's an associative tell to a living player. Not really worthy of a vote.

Ircher, I decided I was voting you before I realized there was a wagon. I acknowledged the wagon and that it wasn't a problem, but unless you think I'd lie so blatantly when voting, you didn't even read where I voted you. As for the reads list, yeah you're still my strongest scum read. Why does that have to change? Yes, drmy is a stronger town read than Titus. It's hard to trust a town read on Titus. Why should I have been cautious of a zakk town read at that point? The worst thing he's done is his cythefly vote which isn't even that bad and hadn't happened yet. And I already said why killthestory is scum. If you think that readslist is random, you haven't read a thing I've posted. And to say I'm tunneling you is crazy. I've got a read on basically every active player and I'm actually having a tough time deciding between you and cythefly (I doubt you are both scum). Yes, my vote has remained on you. But for someone who just ISO'd me, you either aren't truly reading or are intentionally misrepping.

Also, Ircher, I agree with Titus. If this whole thing isn't meant to be understood by everyone else, put it somewhere else as notes. Otherwise it looks like pointless busywork.

[Egg]

Oops didn't mean to hit submit yet. Anyway...

Anen, you sound like you want to scum read drmy but are hesitant to do so. Can you elaborate on your drmy read?

You neeed to elaborate on your scumread on me. Cuz, your explanation so far is not convincing to me nor lynchworthy

1) I've already done this.
2) You are the LAST person I'm trying to convince that you are scum.

Preview edit:
Copper, not really. I could go either way there. I singled out cythefly because if he's scum, Ircher is probably town. I could see Seth and Ircher both being scum though.

[Egg]

I don't think Ircher read my points against him. That or he wrongfully assumes it was RVS. I don't remember making a single RVS point in this game though.

[Egg]

ETL and Titus, you should both be able to see that neither of your reads on cythefly is necessarily scummy. We all know Titus sees meaning in EVERYTHING and her seeing scum intent in cythefly's posting isn't scummy or even necessarily wrong. ETL's arguement that he hasn't said enough to warrant a read isn't necessarily a rare stance either. I tend to agree more with Titus here, but that doesn't in any way make ETL scum.

Ircher, that was the first post where I mentioned you, yes. Then we went back and forth and I gave some more points and you shrugged it off as "nope, not good enough".

[Egg]

Well, there's the one you quoted.

There's the way you answered drmy's question about you even though it was clearly meant for copper

There's your misrep of drmy's comments about his 80% scum win rate.

There's your stressed out reaction to the wagon as well as demanding six cases to defend against instead of scumthunting. Then when you get those cases (or at least mine) you dismiss it as bullshit and go on to act like a case was never made.

There's the way you went out of your way to mention you'd only been scum twice after you implied that drmy draws scum a lot and that makes him somehow more likely to be scum.

There's the way you tried to attack me for focusing on the player I'm voting (seriously, what?)

There's your "Seth is SK" push (which I forgot about so maybe an Ircher/Seth team doesn't make as much sense as I'd thought) and the fact that you voted himfor it rather than anyone you thought was mafia.

Your point that drmy was scum for confirmation bias was pretty bad.

You OMGUS pretty badly

Your ISO thing looks like busywork.

I think that's all the points I've brought up so far. Probably would have more if I ISO'd you.

[Egg]

Also, Egg - I don't particularly find the peacemaker routine a town-thing generally.

Don't care. Just making my points.

Ircher, I see you responded but I don't have time. Will respond back tomorrow.

[Egg]

Also, I just played Killer Instinct mafia where we got wrecked after I was NK'd because the towniest players in the game couldn't get along.

[Egg]

V/LA until Wednesday night

Busier than expected today and working all day tomorrow.

[Egg]

Holy fuck I have work to do here. Will try tonight.

[Egg]

Catching up. Goal is 7-10 pages then finish the rest tomorrow

Page 23:
Titus, you misunderstood my comments about not trusting a town read on you. Yeah, I'm townreading you but I'd expect to townread you when you are scum too. Or at least most of the time. So that makes it hard to be confident in townreading you. But to clarify, you've done nothing in this game that suggests to me you are scum. I'm just watching more closely because I view you as a good player.

Page 24:
Anen, I'm having trouble figuring out what your actual stance on Cy is. You called the wagon scummy, but said you didn't think it contained multiple scum. So ifit was mostly a town wagon, is your Cy read affected by the wagon at all? I'd assume no, but you seem to feel like it's more telling than anything Cy actually said. Also, to your question in 577 about whether Ircher would continue ISOs after dislike for them was expressed, remember Wake as scum in that large normal where I was SK? He avoided content to do his "focus reads" and kept right on going. I know Ircher isn't Wake, but I don't really know Ircher and at the very least it shows that it's happened before so it's probably not much of a town tell.

Desmond, when my scum reads are the ones being wagoned, yeah I'm gonna be pretty agreeable. It happens from time to time.

ETL, do you really think Titus would coach a scumbuddy, who is being wagoned, so blatantly?

Ok too tired from work last night and my kickball double header today. Putting this off another day. I suck, I know.

[Egg]

Let's see how much I can get done before my battery dies

Page 25:
I don't have a problem with ETL's not knowing if daytalk is normal. If anything it would be a towntell because I doubt she's faking not knowing. Magna seems to be assuming everyone researches what they don't know and that's simply not the case. I don't think Magna is scum for that assumption though. He's just thorough himself. I do agree with Magna about coaching though. I can't remember ever seeing in thread coaching actually happening in a game.

ETL and Thebrawl, I'm ignoring your meta points regarding coaching and distancing. If you don't know which game(s) you are even talking about, I can only assume it didn't happen.

Post 618 shows that ETL doesn't know me very well lol. Can't remember ever trying to appease anyone as scum. I love rocking boats.

Zakk, what is "lazy" about the Ircher wagon? Did you read my points against him? Also not sure why you thought Persivul's question was rhetorical. I was wondering about your answer as well

Page 26:
I fully realize killthestory is being intentionally scummy with his refusal to play, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Getting sick of people shying from wagons because "lol no info". That's bullshit. If someone is scum, lynch them. If not, don't. Who gives a fuck about info. We'llworry about that the next day.

Projectmatt, considering your take on the Ircher wagon, I have to ask. Did you read my points against him?

Seth, you were quick to vote Cythefly when it was the cool thing to do. Some people unvote and you follow suit, even copying their reasoning that he's new. Do you have some kind of reason to believe he's town or are all new players a "bad lynch"?

Page 27:
There's Seth officially calling Cy a town read. Guess being new is a town tell now?

^I'm glad Copper tried to drag an answer out of Seth on the above. I agree with Copper's conclusion that Seth is likely scum except that I can see it regardless of Cy's alignment. Could be he knows Cy to be town. Could be he's defending a scumbuddy. Either way, it doesn't feel like a natural read. He's trying to justify the read rather than self-critique.

Page 28:
So killthestory's reads are just Titus' reads after Titus agreed to call him a town read. Nice.

Ok, now we are comparing each other to children and talking about the sizes of our dicks. Someone call me when we are playing mafia again. Yeah, fuck this. I'm gonna read later.

[Egg]

Holy shit this game is insanely fast. Unfortunately my phone is at 4% battery so can't catch up now

[Egg]

Page 29:
Sounds like Killthestory's entire goal is to not get lynched when he says his style is working. That doesn't sound like a town mindset. Also don't like his "deception" stuff.

Page 30:
I'm starting to understand why Titus thinks ETL is scum. I don't think I'll be persuaded any time soon, but I understand the case now.

Page 31:
Killthestory continues to piggyback Titus' reads.

Page 32:
Magna, you said you are townreading Ircher because his wagon hasn't faded. Who on the wagon do you think is scum? I expect more than one name if that's a reason to town read him.

Can someone explain why Brawl is scum? I'm not seeing it.

[Egg]

Page 33:
Thebrawl, yeah I see exactly what you see. Seth's vote on you is garbage.

Aneninen, did you read my points against Ircher?

This is crazy. I fell asleep three times on this page. For an hour each of the first two times. What is wrong with me?

Page 34:
Titus, surely you realize Killthestory's so called reads are just copying you. The only exception was when you asked him about ETL and he said town. Even then, you corrected him and he agreed to 180 for you.

Hmm. I usually townread Anen, and confidently. I think I've been wrong exactly once. I can see him as scum here though for reasons Magna has already made clear.

I see Lowell caught up without answering me. I wanted his reads explained and they are outdated now, but I still don't like that I didn't get an answer. Also, Lowell, do you honestly believe cythefly knew he'd be speedwagoned? And you said cythefly is town for saying things that would get him wagoned, but agreed with ETL that Cy is null. So which is it?

Page 35:
Lowell, why do you think Seth's hole digging was intentional?

[Egg]

Page 36:
Interesting points from Titus on Zakk and Brawl. If one of them flips scum, I could see them as buddies. I'm still townreading their individual play though.

There's killthestory doing whatever Titus wants again. Titus how are you not concerned about this?

Page 37:
Persivul, do you think Titus and ETL are scum together? I see you are scumreading both, but I'm trying to figure out if one of them flipping scum would change your read on the other.

Page 38:
Hmm. You guys are making me doubt my town read on zakk. I just saw his scum game and it wasn't anything like this but...Iunno.

Really hope we can expect some reasoning behind Nahdia's reads.

Page 39:
Ok Zakk's response is good. He can be town again.

Magna posting the Ircher wagon makes me even more sure Ircher is scum. I'm townreading the entire wagon from it's height except Cy. Cy's wagon on the other hand has Seth, heur, and Ircher as vote 3-5 at that point. Ew.

Page 40:
Not sure what to make of Seth's posting here. It seems better, but hypocritical at the same time.

Yikes, Nahdia is gonna be anoying to play with.

[Egg]

Page 41:
Titus, not sure I see where you are coming from in your questioning of zakk. Why would it be townier for him to shop a wagon on Copper because you say it has more support as opposed to ETL who you say you and a few others would support at the time? What is the difference? If he's town, shouldn't it basically be whichever he finds scummier?

Killthestory said we should lynch him. I agree.

[Egg]

Page 42:
Ok, I can't read Nahdia worth shit, so I'll wait for associative tells later on.

Zakk saying he doesn't care about looking town is exactly why he's town. In his scum game, he didn't immediately explain a read because he got called scummy for explaining reads before that. It was one of the reasons I suspected him there. Here, he's doing the exact opposite.

Page 43:
Brawl, which of Nahdia's posts did you think were "really good"? I agree with the rest of the reads you posted here, but I don't understand this one.

Drmy, I'm still pretty convinced you are town, but why aren't you interested in ISOing Seth and Heur or something to get a better read considering their wagons took off.

Hmm. Ircher's reads list actually looks pretty good... Not in the sense that I agree with everything. More like I can follow why he'd believe the things he says.

Titus, why do you have no problem with Ircher not blindly trusting you when you didn't like me saying basically the same thing.

Ircher's "I'll reconsider my read on you when you stop tunneling" comment feels the same as Killthestory's "I'll play when I'm townread". I don't like it.

Page 44:
Seth, first of all my issue with your cythefly vote and unvote is the timing. It was convenient to vote him when you didn. When you unvoted, it no longer was. Second of all, if we never lynched new players, new scum would always win so that's bullshit. Third of all, new players can be easier to read because they have more tells that they aren't aware of yet. I don't like how much you are trying to distance yourself from that vote. It's like you know how scummy it was.

Anen, I get the opposite conclusion about Brawl. The fact that he decided to look up whether it's considered normal to have two scum teams shows that he doesn't have inside knowledge on whether we're dealing with that or not. I also got the opposite impression on something Nahdia said but don't care to discuss that much.

Seth's crap about Anen is unnecessary. Must be pissed off about being scumread.

Page 45:
Titus, I realize your ETL read changed. But you were scumreading her and I was saying I understood why but disagreed. I'm fully aware your read has changed (or maybe "softened" is a better word). And I don't think you are going to sell me on Brawl by the way. I don't see anything "hollow" about his posts. I don't even know what you think he's ignored. I don't care that he has gut reads and not following up well could be a result of this being a large game (even I can't keep up). His reads make perfect sense to me. I don't care that he'd been parked on Ircher (I have as well). I think the Heur vote is fine. And I don't care that he isn't discussing his wagon because I'd prefer he scumhunt as opposed to go all "my wagon is obvscum".

Lowell, why doesn't Ircher's "stop deathtunneling me" read as trying to get out of the flame war to you?

Copper, putting yourself in a reads list isn't scummy. Ircher has done plenty of scummy things but that wasn't one of them and the readslist as a whole was probably his towniest post of the game. I've put myself in readslists as both alignments tons of times. It's not about a certain motivation. It's just...something that gets done. I see your point about some of his reads being because of the players' reads on him though.

Nahdia's Anen vote is pretty dumb.

Too bad my battery is about to die. Was hoping to finish.

[Egg]

Page 46:
I don't understand killthestory's zakk vote but at this point I don't expect to understand anything killthestory does.

Ircher, in 1129 are you talking about putting yourself in your reads list or centering your reads around yourself?

Nahdia's crusade against Anen doesn't make sense to me.

Zakk's self meta is accurate. If he's scum, he's deliberately changed that meta. Not impossible, but I'm just saying like I've been saying that this isn't anything like his last scum game and everything he is saying about that game is true.

Page 47:
Titus, you seem to be townreading Nahdia. Is that the case and if so why?

Reeeeeeally don't like Ircher acknowledging that him vs drmy isn't benefiting anyone while still having drmy as his strongest scum read.

Anen makes leaps in logic as town. When I was SK in a large game, he made "SK profiles" that were based almost entirely on assumptions including that the SK would have been voted some but not wagoned because they'd want to avoid being NK'd (actually I just tried to look town and wipe out scum as fast as possible). But basically yeah this isn't scummy for him.

______________________

Noticed on a skim zakk's idea. I'm basically with Brawl. I don't like Ircher but the rest of that list is cool with me. I want to add killthestory to that lynch pool though. So if that group wants to vote together on Seth, Heur, or killthestory, I'm willing to help.

[Egg]

Page 48:
Ircher, why compromise on someone you claim to be townreading over say a weaker scum read?

Copper, if the scum team had Titus, Anen, AND myself, holy shit town may as well just forfeit lol.

Page 49:
Killthestory, Titus told you who she was scumreading and asked your opinion. Your response was to scumread those people. It's more than fair to say you copied her reads.

Heur, you said Ircher looks like scum who is trying to look town but then immediately called him a town read. Can you explain this a little better?

Page 50:
Projectmatt, do you think scum is pushing Copper or do you just disagree with the points being made?

Titus, you said you want to talk when I'm done. I'm making every possible effort to finish right now so I'm all ears. I have limited availibilty (sleeping when I finish, tomorrow I'm watching my cousin in a parade, doing a family picnic, getting my snow tires off, and vehichle inspection so busy day) but I'll be checking in.

Zakk, what are your arguements against a Seth wagon?

Page 51:
Consolidating is good right now. People are saying otherwise. Those people are wrong. Brawl, I'm talking about you.

Page 52:
Brawl, so regarding Nahdia, you meant more "town" than "good"?

I'm noting Titus and killthestory being against the block idea. It's a scary idea for scum unless they can get in it. projectmatt's opposition is different because he was invited.

Anen, 554 was the post I was asking about, yes. To answer your question (although I've touched on it in this post, but you didn't know that yet when asking), I don't care for Ircher's Brawl vote. He's voting a town read because he's going V/LA before deadline. That doesn't make sense to me. And as I said, I don't want to elaborate on Nahdia but I'm definitely leaning town on her.

Copper, Titus is usually pretty engaged regardless of alignment. I saw her basically give up once after being accused of a scum slip when she wasn't a part of the team she'd supposedly slipped. She was SK though lol. That's the closest I remember seeing as far as not being engaged though and she was definitely engaged before that happened.

Page 53:
I want to add to something Titus said. ETL is V/LA and Titus pointed out that we won't get anything from ETL before deadline as a result. This obviously includes a claim. So we've got to be pretty sure she's scum if we are lynching her. I'm personally townreading her and won't be participating in that lynch.

Drmy, how are you "pretty sure" of me being scum suddenly? You haven't even brought that up until now.

Oh, ETL is coming back before deadline? Ok, forget the not being able to claim thing. I still think she's town though.

Page 54:
Yeah, like I said, not ETL. What about Seth or Heur?

[Egg]

Titus, I don't think the whole block thing is happening anyway. We can't even agree on who to wagon.

ETL:
1) Why claim VT at L-9?
2) If Anen slipped, at least give us a post number or something.

Anen, why claim VT at L-7?

Unvote, Vote Seth

WAGON GOGOGO

[Egg]

Ah. Not sure how I missed that.

I'm townreading your scumreads so I doubt you and I will be voting together.

[Egg]

Titus, nope.

Drmy, zakk, and Brawl are among my strongst town reads.

Copper I lean town on.

And was Persivul the other? He's about on the same level as Copper for me.

I'd much rather lynch within Ircher/Seth/Killthestory/Huer/Lowell

[Egg]

Titus, I was pushing Ircher. Then I switched to Seth and suggested we wagon him. So to say I haven't been pushing is weird. I get that I was in catch up mode, but I've made it very clear what I want to happen. Lowell mostly just hasn't changed my mind since he didn't answer me about his reads. He wasn't "added" so much as "left there". And yeah, I'm town. Just not in agreement with you on like any reads.

Magna, yes I've townread drmy and Brawl all game. My read on drmy has weakened somewhat and my townread on Brawl has strengthened, but they've both been town reads all game. Can you quote the back and forth between you and ETL or at least tell me where it was? I don't remember it and scum don't usually think to fake things like that. It's not like it's the basis of my read anymore or anything but it would be nice to know the full context of it if I've missed something.

[Egg]

Liger's claim is ... interesting. But I don't think it really tells us anything. I'd kinda like to know who else is in the hood.

Liger, care to tell us what your main account is for meta purposes?

Persivul, you don't think Ircher seemed pressured by his wagon? Or what about the two VT claims we've had already?

Oh. Neighbor reveal. Uhhhh. Titus. Which neighbor am I wrong about because Liger's approach to this wasn't even close to scummy.

Magna, thanks. Don't let me forget to read that later (I'm a phone poster so navigating links will take time. a lot of time)

Reactions to ETL's poop are pretty funny tbh.

Oh yeah. 1481. That's why Persivul is town. Should I be listening to Titus on Copper then?

[Egg]

Anyone got time to make an unofficial vote count? I don't...

[Egg]

Magna vs Persivul is clearly town vs town. They aren't afraid of being in a smaller scum pool. So it looks like if there is exactly one scum neighbor, it's Copper.

Titus, remind me why you are flirting with a scum read on me. Is it still because I'm not willing to trust that you are town? And can you show exactly where Copper fell out of your list of scum reads? Because I thought it was after the neighbor claim too.

ETL, same question I asked Titus ^.

ETL's 1511 is basically my exact read on Titus.

I really can't see Persivul egging Titus and Magna on like this as scum. His 1557 is an over reaction towards Titus relating to Persivul's flip though. No one is going to go "OMG Persivul was town. What do you have to say for yourself Titus" unless they were already shitting on her reads. Also, if ETL was scum trying to push awkward wording as a scum slip, why would she concede to Titus that it's BS so easily?

Lowell how do you get that conclusion in 1515?

I'd like to see an actual answer from Titus as far as a second choice for scum in the neighborhood

[Egg]

Can't keep up. This is too much...

[Egg]

Way too many pages. I'm moving all day so gonna be too busy to catch up.

[Egg]

kts flash wagon anyone?

Unvote, Vote Killthestory

This in no way means I'm caught up

[Egg]

Ok, because I'm 30+ pages behind, I'll minimize what I comment on as much as possible. A lot of it is outdated anyway and I'll get in short bursts as often as possible which may be as little as a page or two but will add up. Or at least that's the plan.

Page 65:
Copper, you asked me what happens if there isn't exactly one scum in the hood. Well, then my guess is wrong. If I was positive I was right, I'd have voted you right after the hood was outted. You haven't really been scummy though.

Page 66:
Zakk, if Titus was scum with daytalk who already knew who the neighbors were, she'd still be hiding that info until Liger claimed. So faking a reads change isn'timpossible. I mean, I'm not saying that's what happened but it's not a good reason for you to unvote.

Titus, I have to point out that you called me out for not being able to agree with your reads and mentioned that you hadn't switched to Persivul yet ONLY because of deadline. You were voting Brawl. Persivul and Brawl were town. I'll give you that I was wrong about killthestory, but maybe it's time to give some of my reads a chance? I still like Ircher, Sethslot (Kop), and heurslot (shaziro) for scum pending my catch up. I also might be able to agree on Copper but that's only because of the neighborhood so that's a meh choice.

[Egg]

Page 67:
Ok, Copper calling a policy lynch a standard thing feels off. I've seen very few policy lynches go through unless you count VIs who do scummy things and people actually thinking they are scum. Also, ETL is far from the type of player who gets policy lynched. I kind of wonder if he was trying to refuel the Titus vs ETL fight. Momentum was starting to shift to Persivul. Maybe I'm overthinking but is it possible he didn't want a neighbor lynch because it would narrow the pool? Meh. Quick skim of his ISO shows he voted both Persivul and Magna after this post so I'm probably on the wrong track. I mean it feels off but I'm not sure why. I might just be confirmation biasing because of the whole "there has to be a scum neighbor" thing.

Wtf? Titus, how are killthestory and Lowell "strong voices" in the game? Were you just trying to convince people to vote Persival or do you actually believe that?

Magna, yeah if there are two scum teams I could see one from each being in the neighborhood. However, it was Day 1 so I was ignoring that possibility in order to vote the scummiest person possible (I should add that I think we obviously failed at that). Looking at last night's kills, I don't suspect multiple scum teams yet. It's possible of course, but my guess is scum killed ETL and the other two kills were a vig and a SK trying to look like a vig. It's entirely possible that killthestory or Brawl was one scum team trying to kill the other but until we get a scum flip with some kind of faction name or something, I'll work with the assumption that we only have one scum team to deal with. Because of that, I'm not even close to assuming more than one scum in the neighborhood. I'm currently thinking 0-1.

Page 68:
Not sure if I've said so already but zakk's push to specifically NOT lynch Persivul is very town.

Titus, you called the Persivul wagon "all town" as a reason for people to vote him. Hopefully you've re-evaluated on some of those reads or at least realized that scum probably jumped on at some point.

Page 69:
Wtf? Didn't see zakk's 180 coming. Something keeps telling me he's obvtown but then he makes me doubt myself. It's frustrating because there are clear differences between his scum game I just saw and this one and he should be easy for me to read but he isn't.

Page 70:
Not loving Lowell's push to end the day. Not simply because he wants to end the day, but his tone while doing so. It feels...urgent. Like if we don't hurry up and do it, momentum might shift. If Lowell is scum, he probably has a buddy who may have been lynched instead of Persivul (Brawl? zakk?). Unfortunately, no one who I am scumreading seems to fit the bill but if my reads were perfect, would I still be alive? Also on Lowell, the way he refuses to restate his reads real quick rubs me the wrong way too.

[Egg]

Page 71:
Meh. Whole page is Titus vs Brawl and it's pretty boring. The biggest thing that stands out is Titus claiming that Brawl needs to "do one hell of a justification" to push Seth and Heur simply because they are policy lynch type players. Obviously, that doesn't mean they can't draw scum. They were both scummy before being replaced. Yeah, their play was pretty poor as well. That's different from scummy. They happened to be both. I don't think Brawl was confusing the two by any means. Even if he was, that doesn't make him scum (which his flip shows).

Page 72:
Call me crazy, but Nahdia feels very town for the "I see scum on both wagons" and refusal to join either after being prompted by Titus to do so.

Page 73:
Looks like drmy missed the fact that I kinda did react to his vote. But that's expected in a large game. I'd like to know why Magna thinks that is scummy of drmy, but drmy asked so I'm sure I'll see an answer.

Page 74:
Titus, was Anen really a "major wagon" with two votes?

Hmm. Shaziro looks better than Heur did. Kop is still scum though.

Persivul's "I wouldn't offer myself up for lynch if I was a power role" is obvtown. That lynch was so bad. I don't usually bother saying stuff like that after the fact but holy shit.

I don't see the point in Titus telling Persivul after his claim that there is a trend towards power roles being neighbors unless she was trying to bait him to change his claim or she was trying to get scum to shoot neighbors for some reason...

Page 75:
Hmm. I know I sounded ready to town read Shaziro, but the scolding of Killthestory right after ETL, Magna, and to an extent Titus just did the same, before catching up, reads as an attempt to fit in. This is especially true knowing that Killthestory was town.

Liger, what about zakk's posts read as "frustrated scum" to you? What would he be frustrated about as scum? He was voting the lead wagon which was on town. He was in a pretty good spot for Day 1 if he's scum. I know Persivul being town was unknown to you at that time, but I want to know where you were coming from. Also, with all of the talk of scum in the neighborhood, I want to know why Persivul being in the neighborhood made you LESS likely to vote him. Especially considering you said you'd rather lynch Persivul than Zakk, but had just voted Zakk while Persivul had the most votes.

I had to check when Shaziro made a point about Seth saying he's not "hard claiming" SK as opposed to simply "claiming" because it looked like a good point. However, Seth was responding to Copper who used the "hard claiming" phrase first.

Page 76:
I won't complain if a vig wants to kill Nos tonight.

Page 77:
Magna, you said you don't buy drmy's vote on me as a reaction test and conclude that he made the vote as scum. So I have to ask. If he's scum, what was the purpose of him voting me?

Not sure why Lowell thinks Brawl went "MIA" or that that's why the wagon fell apart a bit. Brawl was actively engaging Titus not long before this point in the game and the wagon clearly went away because Persivul's started gaining traction.

Page 78:
Whole page is dead town except zakk stating he has a town read on Nos. I understand where he's coming from, but it's not exactly solid.

Page 79:
I don't like that Kop finally posted and the only thing he found notable is that Killthestory made a bad post.

Page 80:
Is it that time already? Nothing but random BS and waiting for an awful, yet inevitible, lynch to go through. Is there any point in reading the rest of Day 1? Or should I skip to daystart today?

Page 81:
I agree with Persivul. Shaziro's question about no lynching looks like a standard new player question so Lowell calling it "contrived" is weird.

[Egg]

@Egg
Are you going to post game relevant content soon? I don't care about the game state on page 70, I want your opinions on the now.

I'll get there.

[Egg]

btw if this is multiball 90% sure there's a representative of every scum team in the hood, so we should be looking for scum in the hood, not the scum in the hood.

If this is multiball and Nos is scum, the hood is likely all town.

Saw this on a skim. The team he's not on could have a member in the hood.

[Egg]

Lol

[Egg]

Page 82:
Nos might actually be town for the comment about deathtunneling himself if Persivul is town. It shows a genuine belief in the read I think.

Ircher's extremely quick move from "someone explain the Persivul wagon, I don't have time" to "he's flailing, time to claim" doesn't feel natural. Who mentioned trajectory earlier? Was it Titus? This is bad trajectory right here. Remember Ircher's reads list? Persivul was listed as his top town read at 90% (unless you count his 100% on himself).

Page 83:
Shaziro calling ETL's Titus vote opportunistic is horse shit. Like what is the arguement for "ETL jumped off the lead wagon to start a new wagon because loldeadlineopportunism"?

Cy keeps reminding me why I was scumreading him earlier...

Page 84:
Lol at Liger's hammer. The lynch was inevitible at that point anyway.

Page 85:
Oh. I was sure it was hammer that time.

Expedience, what do you mean "everyone is a neighbor"?

Not sure what to make of Liger's unvote, but it stands out. I can see scum who just saw Persivul call out Expedience for changing position on the wagon and freaked out and I can see town who second guessed his read. Sorry for a non-read here, but I just can't tell what is more likely. I think I lean the town one because Persivul implied that Expedience was improving his position by being late on the wagon.

Page 86:
Noting that before being killed, ETL stated scum reads on drmy, copper, cy, myself, and huer (Shaziro). Not sure if Kop gets included there or not because of thewording. Bet we find a couple of scum in that list.

Page 87:
I don't know why we've gone into cop theory, but no you don't check scummy players or check people based on their experience level. You check ANYONE who is hard to read and who you think COULD be scum but isn't likely to be wagoned even though they aren't obvtown. Basically, the under the radar types but with some educated guesswork. You're trying to hit scum, but town results help because those are the players who live longer.

[Egg]

Page 88:
Well I can't ask ETL because she got NK'd, but Shaziro agreed so...
Shaziro, why was Ircher's push for a hammer scummy?

Page 89:
I agree with Brawl in his arguement with Ircher but Brawl is dead town and so are both wagons being discussed so this is useless to me except that Ircher is wrong.

Zakk, why is Shaziro town?

My town read on Expedience has been weakening lately. Not entirely sure why.

Page 90:
2239 by Nos is pretty bad. Not wanting to vote Persivul just because he's gonna be lynched anyway is horribly scummy. I see Copper and Expedience noted this.

Page 91:
Not a fan of Copper egging on Projectmatt to vote Persivul after he (Copper) just jumped off to vote killthestory. Feels like not wanting to be on the mislynch.

Oh look, I made it to Day 2. If I didn't say this already (I think I did), I think the NKs are scum (ETL), a vig, and a SK trying to look like a vig.

Drmy, are you saying Titus is scum for being wrong about the dead people?

Nahdia, why were Brawl and killthestory bad shots if they were vig shots?

Page 92:
Hmm. Acknowledging Copper's reasoning for the killthestory vote. Don't know if I buy it or not. I can see it though.

Page 93:
Ircher, why'd you assume two scum teams and appear to rule out a SK? (Post 2321)

Nahdia's posts toward Titus are very town. I'd expect town to just give five names to attempt to control a strong town player. And if Titus is scum, that would mean the whole thing is BS if Nahdia is also scum anyway and I'm kinda doubting that.

Page 94:
Copper makes good points about Kop. Why soft push Persivul then vote killthestory as town?

Shaziro, I'm guessing ETL just didn't notice that you'd replaced Heur. I don't like you discrediting her reads like that by the way.
^If Shaziro is scum, ETL's reads were probably pretty solid. They probably were anyway though.

I don't understand these Anen votes.

Page 95:
Not sure why zakk thinks everyone will be survivalistic, but that's not necessarily scummy or anything.

Ircher, why is Brawl a good kill for a SK?

Lowell, why don't you think scum used their kills effectively? I also notice you said "kills" rather than "kill"? So you are assuming two teams?

I actually like Shaziro's Nos vote. And I find Lowell's opposition to it interesting. Especially after he adds a null read on Nos.

Zakk, why do you think two teams are "very likely" now? I thought you'd concluded earlier we probably have a SK.

Page 96:
Did I mention I don't understand where scum reads on Anen are coming from?

[Egg]

Page 97:
Anen vs Nos isn't changing my views. Hell, it's not even strengthening the ones I already have.

Page 98:
If Titus actually claimed the Brawl kill, she's probably town. Too risky for scum or SK because anyone claiming kills won't live long.
Especially if a vig flips. I thought I'd see a real answer to this when Titus posted again though and that didn't happen here.

Hmm. I can't get a solid read on Shaziro. This page looked town from him...

Page 99:
Is anyone townreading Kop? If so, why?

Page 100:
Zakk, you wanted me to comment on the fact that I'm townreading you and my scum reads are voting you. Uhhh. Not sure why. It reaffirms my beliefs. Scum voting town isn't exactly some rare occurance. By the way, Ircher jumped on after you asked me about this so...lol?

Drmy's unvote of zakk is probably the first thing I've disliked about him this game. He unvoted saying zakk gave a town response, but then implied he's still scumreading him with the 100 page comment. Maybe I'm misreading something, but it feels like he's trying to satisfy people with his answers. Actually, yeah. He said he'd vote whoever has more votes between Copper, Titus, and zakk. So that "town response" that made him unvote must have gone out the window?

Page 101:
I agree with zakk about Kop's "half aware" post.

Ok, I decided I'm sticking with a town read on Shaziro. Copper too for the Magna vote with one dead town neighbor and the "scum in the hood" narrative that is out there.

Page 102:
Drmy, did you really change your avatar while I'm catching up? lol. You're throwing me off here. Ircher pretty clearly meant Titus with the "us" thing though.

Starting to be pretty convinced this is town Titus.

Really want to finish this but can't stay awake. I'm almost there though.

[Egg]

That's why I stay away from the "multiball" term. Everyone has their own definition for it.......

[Egg]

Prod dodge

[Egg]

Actually, I have a little time. Let's see how close I can get to finishing this.

Page 103:
Ircher is making me facepalm and Copper is actually making me want to lynch Lowell.

Page 104:
Now Lowell is making me want to lynch Lowell. Copper JUST pointed zakk to the second post of his analysis and apparently Lowell missed that twice?

Zakk, yeah that's what I noticed when I said Copper makes me want to lynch Lowell. Him saying that you are the only one interested in Lowell sounds like something a scumbuddy would say. It kind of has a gloating aspect to it. I have to point this out though. You said his reads list is good because it shows he's paying attention. For me, that actually raises red flags. If he's paying attention, why isn't he more active? Lowell is someone who believes town should be aggressive, but being scum makes him nervous. So why is he so quiet here? Especially considering he knows what has been going on all game.

Projectmatt, were your reads on the dead players really so good that your reads didn't change for Day 2? I'm asking because I legitimately don't remember yourreads on those four players.

Anen, yeah I haven't been caught up in a while. I figured I could handle a wider game load than normal because I've been off work for three weeks. But in that time, I bought a house and moved into it, started playing kickball twice a week, and I've been playing poker 2-3 times a week. I think I've been even busier than when I'm working! None of this is a complaint, but unfortunately it takes away from mafia some. I would never lurk strategically as scum. You know my main account now and if you cared to do so, you could go through all of my games in the last 8 years and you'd never find me doing so. When I'm scum, I want complete control of the game.

Can you tell me why you're unwilling to vote Lowell?

<-answered next page

Page 105:
I don't like projectmatt playing the lynch bait card. I don't think of him as lynch bait

[Egg]

V/LA until Sunday

I go back to work today

[Egg]

I'll try to fully catch up tonight. Don't explode the thread on me

[Egg]

Way too tired, sorry. Went golfing. Thought I'd be home before midnight at least. Thought wrong.

[Egg]

Well the good news is once I get caught up, I should stay caught up. This thread isn't going crazy anymore

[Egg]

Page 106:
Because Anen was scum and was pushing projectmatt so hard, projectmatt is more likely to be town than I thought. I'm not ruling out a bus. Just guessing that it wasn't one. Anen also gave Projectmatt/Nos/Nahdia/Kop as his lynch list. Probably one buddy there. Kop is dead town. I'm townreading Nahdia. Scum points for Nos.

Page 107:
I keep seeing people scumreading Titus, but the only reason I've seen is Cy's terrible "she's leading the town" thing. I don't have a strong town read on her, but understanding the case would be cool.

Page 108:
I think I'm gonna sheep Magna's town read on Liger.

Don't like Lowell's self proclaimed opportunistic vote. Reeks of "I acknowledged what I'm doing so it's not scummy".

[Egg]

Page 109:
Re: Magna's drmy case - Is calling someone 3rd party on Page 4 really a slip of extra info? Also can't buy a meta case if the meta isn't being shared. Basically, I'd be willing to listen even though I'm townreading drmy, but there's necessary info to be shared first. Also, why is Ircher's post that you linked so town? I think scum can explain what happened with the kills just as well as town can. Probably better, actually. To answer your question though, yeah SK in a neighborhood is possible. As a Mod, I don't think I'd do it just because SK is so hard to win as and that puts a target on them, but sure it's possible.

Drmy, I'd like to know why it "seemed obvious" on Day 1 that we were dealing with multiple teams.

I don't understand zakk's issue with Shaziro's wording. Zakk's entire tone feels kind of... gloaty? or cocky maybe? lately. I don't remember him being like this at all last game. But he was scum last game so... I dunno.

V/LA

until Friday night.

[Egg]

Page 110:
Ircher, so you don't think a town vig killed Brawl?

Page 111:
So Copper thought Magna was scum reaching out to opposing scum Ircher. Copper was killed last night. Interesting.

Because Anen is dead scum, I have to note his soft defense of cy (chainsaw?) when addressing Kop who is dead town. He does it twice in 2759. He's also going hard after Nos but then saying he "has doubts" about Nos. I feel like this could be distancing. I also see him defending Titus a couple of times on this page, but such a hard defense is probably more likely to be buddying to influential town than defending a buddy.

Projectmatt questioning Magna on his town read on him is looking townish.

Copper asked me about the connection between his slot and Kop's brought up by Ircher. My answer was going to be that it was BS. Copper and Kop have since flipped town though so it's pretty irrelevant.

Page 112:
The response to the first quote in 2777 by Anen shows that there is probably scum in Nos/Ircher. No, I'm not confirmation biasing on this one. Same post: if Shaziro or Titus is scum, I'm looking hard at the other. Mostly a note for later though as I'm townreading both.

Ircher using Kop's claim against him "likely a scum role" sucks. It feels like a framing attempt and his claim that he's mostly seen commuter as a scum role rubs me the wrong way. I honestly don't remember seeing a scum commuter before. And I don't get why the "two shot" modifier was so damning either. The whole thing just reeks. It looks like Copper picked up this line of questioning for me. Cool.

Not a fan of Lowell bragging about starting the Kop wagon.

Dead town Copper called the Kop wagon "likely scum pushed". Dead scum Anen was on it with the following living players: Lowell, Ircher, Magna, Nos. Yikes, that looks scum pushed even WITHOUT the fact that Copper and Kop have already flipped town. Noting that Copper also scumread projectmatt because of the timing of this wagon. Lowell jumped off Kop to projectmatt after that post. Hmm. Did Copper scare the scum off the wagon?

Page 113:
Note to self: I'd like to fact check projectmatt on calling himself lynch bait.

Given the flips, projectmatt's point that Lowell has had Anen as a scum lean for a while but hasn't voted him or interacted with him definitely stands out. Actually, 2813 by projectmatt is a pretty good post as a whole. I also like his point that Ircher's calling Copper primarily an association read doesn't add up after scumreading Copper before Kop was even in the game. However, the "sudden silence" comment from projectmatt makes no sense. The fact that it had been a whopping 10 minutes and Ircher hadn't answered doesn't mean Ircher had suddenly gone silent.

Page 114:
Nos' post about a rolecop is pinging hard for me. Also,

I want everyone to look at Post 2835 in hindsight

. This looks like frustration at the Mod for outting the fact that Nos' team has an encryptor. Anen flipped encryptor.

Page 115:
I don't like Magna's assertion that Copper's Seth push can't be considered "hard" because the wagon didn't pick up. Two reasons. First, what other people do has nothing to do with how hard one person was pushing. Second, four votes is decent for a wagon. Sure, the wagon was on town and scum was part of it, but we didn't know that at the time. Or at least most of us didn't.

I'll do more when my phone is charged.

[Egg]

Page 116/117:
I agree with Liger that Nahdia's replace out post is both upsetting to read and town.

Zakk, Lowell was a chronic lurker years ago, left the site for a while, and came back and still doesn't seem to pay full attention to games. I can buy that he didn't 100% know what a commuter is. It's not THAT common of a role, especially for someone who mostly only plays normal games. Doesn't mean he's town, but that's not a great point against him. (As I keep reading, I see that Lowell addressed this himself. Just acknowledging that)

I feel like I should mention that while I've been mostly townreading zakk, I do have it in the back of my mind that he might be intentionally playing against his scum meta as scum. It's an idea, but I'm not leaning that way. It's just kind of there as a theory.

Magna's Copper tunnel is pretty painful to read knowing that Copper was town.

Page 118:
Not sure what to make of zakk's re-read of Seth/Kop. Why wait until he's L-1 to express doubt? At that point, his lynch was near inevitible. If you wanted to stop it, you needed to speak up sooner.

Page 119:
Lowell's hammer doesn't feel like an "lolhammer" to me. The lynch was going to happen and he just happened to be the one to deliver it. Kop had already claimed. Not sure why he phrased it that way.

Page 120:
Nos' "I was right" post makes me even more sure of my earlier theory that he and Anen were distancing.

Zakk, you mentioned being more interested in Copper's reads after his town flip, but didn't expand on it. Did any of your reads change as a result of that? Also, why vote Titus before ISOing Anen rather than waiting to see if the ISO shows anything.

I don't like Ircher's phrasing of "how am I implicated" after Zakk's reads update from the flips. It feels like he thought he and Anen did a decent job of not looking like buddies.

Shaziro, how confident are you that you were misreading Nos earlier? Do you have any other reads that either changed or were strengthened for similar reasons? What are your two strongest reads?

Page 121:
Liger, can you elaborate on what Magna said in the PT that looked town?

I like Nahdia on this page.

Page 122:
Oh, cool. Titus VCA coming up. Looking forward to it.

Ircher, I don't buy that you don't understand what the scum motivation would be for directing a vig to town.

Shaziro, I'm probably going to vote Ircher. You should join me if you think he and Titus were distancing earlier.

Page 123:
I don't like Titus saying that no one is pushing Ircher as scum. Drmy and myself have been scumreading him all game. Copper was scum reading him. Nahdia was voting him at the time Titus said that. And now Shaziro hints at a scum read on him. It's a real misrep of gamestate. Also, I know I've mentioned this in the past, but you really should be more subtle about power role thoughts... Don't reply to that last sentence.

Magna's "hard reset" is what I was expecting. If he didn't do that, I was going to call him out.

I hate to say it, but drmy's defense that he would have made his buddies bus him for the "BUSSED SO HARD" title as scum is something I actually buy...

Hmm. Lowell claimed two shot vig. Uhhh. If true, nice kills. I'm going to sit back before making a judgement on that for now. Knee jerk reaction is to believe him though. I don't think SK Lowell claims vig yet here, especially not two shot. As scum, it would be ballsy as fuck to claim vig especially given Anen's scum flip. And by ballsy, I mean stupid.

I was impatient last time and took my phone off the charger before it was ready. Now it's dead again. So that's probably as far as I'm getting tonight.

Preview edit: Ah. I missed that you were the one who asked. Ok, fair enough.

[Egg]

I'm guessing I haven't made it to the "lynch me first" thing yet. But basically, I'm still townreading Titus. My Ircher scum read is independent of Titus and my ISO is full of why so give it a skim when you have some time.

[Egg]

Page 124:
Can we stop referring to Titus' odd night claim as a counterclaim. Odd night and two shot modifiers can both exist and Kop already flipped two shot. Lowell isn't being lynched unless someone else claims his kills (a vig who made those kills should just kill Lowell tonight though) or explains why he'd make that claim as scum. And if we're lynching Titus, someone needs to explain why as scum she'd fakeclaim odd night just to secure the already inevitible lynch of a two shot commuter whose day play wasn't helping us at all. Basically, Titus and Lowell's claims are town claims.

Zakk, do you honestly believe Lowell is making it to endgame with a vig claim? I don't.

And now we're wagoning Lowell. Wonderful...

Page 125:
Titus/Nahdia, yeah a non-Lowell vig should be shooting Lowell. If they are out of shots, they counterclaim. Simple play if he's scum. (Ok, Titus says that later)

Shaziro, we aren't lynching for info. We're trying to lynch scum.

I don't get Titus' Shaziro vote at all. Frustration maybe?

Ok there's Ircher's thing that Shaziro was talking about. I'll admit that looks town.

Shaziro, you said Titus sounds like a scum power role. Does that mean you believe her about being odd night?

Page 126:
Ewwww, Titus, why rolefish Shaziro like that? And then trying to bully him into claiming. Damn.

Page 127:
And then Ircher trying to get Shaziro to claim too? What the fuck is this?

I'm actually feeling Lowell's Magna vote.

Shaziro, you should probably just not even reply when Titus and Ircher try to get you to claim. This is pretty bad.

Page 128:
I'm finding myself on the Nahdia/Shaziro/Zakk side of the arguement against Titus/Ircher for the record.

Page 129:
Zakk wants my reads:
Strong town: Shaziro, Lowell, Nahdia
Town: Zakk, Titus
Weak town: Drmy, Liger
Can't decide: projectmatt, cy
Weak scum: Magna, Nos
Scum: Ircher

Zakk, you also said you want my opinion on "everything". Can you be more specific?

Magna siding with Titus and Ircher is making me cringe. It's blatant rolefishing. How can you support that? 3214 also seems to ignore that Shaziro is new. His grasp on balance isn't nearly as good as someone who is an experienced Mod for example. Shaziro JUST pointed this out too...

Drmy is looking worse as the game goes on. I don't like his comments about Magna "proving" he's town or his sheep vote on Shaziro.

Page 130:
Eyeballing Ircher's vote counts real fast, can we acknowledge how town that Day 1 Ircher wagon was? And who was on Persivul where no scum have flipped yet? (Magna, Titus, Ircher, zakk, shaziro, cy, projectmatt, nahdia). The Persivul thing won't be settled until more of those players flip but holy shit that Ircher wagon. So town. Also, Magna is on every single one of those leading wagons (Brawl, Persivul, Kop) except Ircher.

Nahdia, to be fair I'd make every effort to catch up on this game even if I was scum. I hate playing from behind. I'd much rather be up to date on everything. I took on more than I can handle which is my own fault, but I did that before getting a Role PM.

Page 131:
Hmm, so all anyone has to do for Ircher to take their opinions as 95% fact is post them on the wiki. Noted.

Page 132:
I know we've basically established Lowell is town, but I want to point this out anyway. "I feel like a dumbass for claiming if it's SK" is ridiculously genuine.

Page 133:
Zakk, the difference you are seeing between killer instinct and Day 2 and 3 here is that I haven't been caught up. It's a fast paced large game. I was alive in killer instinct for something like 8 RL days and confirmed town for like half of that so my confidence was through the roof. Here, I feel shitty because I haven't contributed enough but I'm catching up now even if it takes until 3AM (it's looking like it will) so hopefully that changes. Also, Copper isn't alive for your reaction test JUST FOR HIM where you skipped Liger in your reads list =P
To your 11 shot dayvig question, I'd shoot:
Ircher -Pretty convinced he's scum.
Magna - I like him for scum.
Nos - Scum distancing with Anen or SK both make sense.
Cy - Can see either scum or SK.
Drmy - My earlier town read has faded. I could see SK or maybe scum if my scum reads are wrong
Titus -Meh, I don't think she's scum but I've hardly agreed with her on a single thing this game so maybe
Zakk - If you're manipulating your meta, you're doing a good job of it
Projectmatt - Probably not an Anen buddy. Maybe SK? Or opposing scum if that's still a possibility
Liger - Meh. I don't think I'd get this far without ending the game but my other town reads are stronger and he's a neighbor so worth a shot especially if Magna is town
Nahdia - *shrug*. I wouldn't want Nahdia in LYLO.
Bring to LYLO- Lowell and Shaziro and lynch Lowell. If the game isn't over at this point, Lowell played a ballsy ass SK game.

Notice Ircher's dayvig list still revolves around people's reads on him in at least one case (Nahdia). I feel like that drmy shot is some of that left over too.

I don't like projectmatt and Nos thinking my buying a house, moving, and working 16 hour days is scummy. That's effectively what you are saying when you scumread me for being behind. Just FYI.

Page 134:
Zakk, yeah drmy is posting but a lot of his recent stuff is fluff so that might be why you thought he was lurking.

Page 135:
Liger wanting a 1v1 with Magna and then voting him is very town. If Magna is town, Liger's got to know people are going to push him next. I don't see scum forcing the issue there.

I disagree with Magna null reading Liger (as opposed to town) for trying to draw a NK and then saying that's what he was doing when it didn't work. For the record though, when I said I was sheeping Magna's town read on Liger earlier, that was me saying that I realized Magna knew Liger was a power role (or at least it looked that way at the time).

3367 explains why drmy hasn't been posting much content and I'm back to townreading him. Sorry to hear about all of that. Drmy, do you really think scum Liger would be pushing "idk neighbor" as a case against Magna knowing full well he'd be lynched either instead or next if Magna was town?

Page 136:
Not loving Cy's "let me just post town reads instead of scum reads". Reeks of not wanting to step on toes. Cy as SK is actually making a lot of sense. I eased up on him earlier mostly because I'm scumreading Ircher and doubt they're scum together and because that early Cy wagon was mostly my scum reads. But SK I can see.

Page 137:

Vote Ircher

[Egg]

Nah. I remember 2 of his 315 posts looking town. The early reads list and the one where he said lynch him before Titus. I don't know how many I've pointed out as scummy, but it's more than 2.

[Egg]

Zakk, you're still skimming if you didn't see why I'm leaning town on Titus. I don't think she'd fakeclaim odd night to get Kop lynched. The lynch was already happening and a commuter isn't that strong. I've acknowledged she could be an odd night scum role though. Still, coming out with that info as scum is ballsy, especially with three kills a night and before Lowell's claim showed he was out of bullets.

Can Ircher and Nos be scum together? Sure. I don't see any reason that doesn't work.

I think you guys are stretching on the "nice try" thing. People say that all the time and I haven't fact checked but I don't think it's always scum. It's someone who thinks a bad arguement was made against them.

Drmy is town for his Day 1 play mostly. I agreed with a lot of what he said, specifically about Ircher, and it sounded like town who was sure of his read(s).

And finally, yes I'm town.

Shaziro, it doesn't show a survivalist mentality which scum tend to have. If Titus is scum, that goes out the window though and no longer looks town. If she's a scum power role, it actually looks really scummy for reasons you just outlined.

Zakk, the fact that Titus called it a counter claim doesn't make her right. That's only possible if you're trying to argue that Kop and Lowell are both scum. I don't think normal games allow for wrong flips and Lowell is very likely to be town so no it's not a counter claim.

[Egg]

I guess technically if you're saying she can't be odd night because it can't exist with two shot, you could call it a counter claim. It would just be a bad arguement.

[Egg]

I don't wanna

[Egg]

I mean, I'm willing to talk but I don't think you and I agree on anything.

[Egg]

I mean, I'm willing to talk but I don't think you and I agree on anything.

Great, well, you're caught up.

Who do you think is scum?

Ircher, Magna, Nos. Cy SK.

[Egg]

I don't think he knew you were blocked. You're giving him a lot of credit for a new player with the whole crumbing thing. And if he WAS crumbing, when you asked him about it, he'd either say so or he'd deny it because he didn't want that info outted. I don't think opening up the "Is Shaziro a power role" converdation was a good idea on your part. You tend to want all of the information as soon as you can get it and that's just not how this game works ideally. Basically, I don't think he came off scummy in that interaction and I don't think you should have said half of what you did.

[Egg]

I don't think he knew you were blocked. You're giving him a lot of credit for a new player with the whole crumbing thing. And if he WAS crumbing, when you asked him about it, he'd either say so or he'd deny it because he didn't want that info outted. I don't think opening up the "Is Shaziro a power role" converdation was a good idea on your part. You tend to want all of the information as soon as you can get it and that's just not how this game works ideally. Basically, I don't think he came off scummy in that interaction and I don't think you should have said half of what you did.

Oh great. So there's this mystical other interpretation about how he knows I killed no one and crumbed jk? I would love to hear it.

This whole mystical other explanation theory is simply so stunted.

Either he didn't crumb or he didn't want it outted. Mystical, I know.

[Egg]

You're ignoring that there is a much more simple answer.

I am not ignoring it. I am asking you to say it.

Nah, there's no wagon on Shaziro. He doesn't need to claim just so you can understand what he meant.

[Egg]

The fact that you assumed he blocked you doesn't mean he lied.

[Egg]

So you're going cosmic coincidence?

I'm going I don't need to know yet.

[Egg]

I'm going with what happened to me and Shaz's responses are something close to a cop guilty and your response is I don't need to know. Like wtf?

If it was a cop guilty, he'd have said that by now. Actually, maybe not because you're already the lead wagon. Meh. At the very least, I'll say I hadn't considered that and if that's what it is, I don't want him to claim it unless we're about to lynch someone else and he thinks he'll survive the night (Shaziro don't say anything about this).

Ircher, the SK should ALWAYS be shooting for scum. I'm sure there are exceptions but SK wins come from looking town as fuck and killing off the scum. If they can eliminate anyone else who kills at night, all they have to do is not get lynched to win. I say this as someone who in my last SK game helped get the game to about a 10:1 situation and came within one day of winning. And I'll be perfectly open about optimal SK strategy because it also benefits town to have SK killing scum.

Hmm. I started calling Magna scum and now he's voting me. Thought he was above OMGUS. Lemme read his points though:
-My getting caught up never has and never will have anything to do with the game itself. I bought a house on June 3rd. Most of my free time has been spent moving. Considering my lease at my last place is up at the end of the month, that's slowed down. I was waiting for one free night. I got it the night I caught up.
-I don't believe that "the perfect spot for scum to be under the radar", as you put it, exists. I'd rather control a game where I'm scum. I'd want to be the one deciding who gets lynched. If I'm going to be lynched as scum, it's going to be to set up my buddies to win or because people ask "why is he still alive?"
- If you think I didn't take any stances, you didn't read my posts at all.
- Yes, survivalism is scummy. Why am I wrong for thinking that?

[Egg]

Egg, I am the one implying near cop levels of confidence Shaz is scum. Like holy crap.

Oh. That... changes things. But you claimed odd night and it's Day 3 so why is this just coming out now?

Nahdia, I noticed Lowell in your pool. Did you forget about his claim or do you just want to lynch him anyway?

Magna, ok. I took 3371 as a personal attack for joining a game I didn't have time for, not suspicion. My mistake I guess. Not really sure how you thought that was alignment indicitve, but you probably should have specified that buying a house is scummy. Seriously, do I have to post a picture of my paperwork or something? You expect that my brilliant strategy is to lie about RL circumstances? Come on, I've been playing long enough not to be scared of being scum. Oh, and no shit my opinions on the past are about the past. I'm not gonna come in here and be like "hi I'm up to Page 70 so here's my thoughts on Page 100." I need full context. It's how my mind works. Go look at any game I've ever been behind as on either this account or my Kmd one. I catch up when I'm behind. I'm actually kind of offended that I kept putting 2-3 hours into catching up on this at a time and you say it's not scumhunting. Also, there's nothing survivalist about lurking. Lurkers get lynched. That's bullshit and you know it. Funny how I was just telling my wife I need to quit mafia and I come back to a post that shrugs off the hours I put into this game as some kind of "lol I dont wanna play cuz Im scum". Now I remember why I can't handle playing mafia.

[Egg]

Meh, I'm willing to hear what the result is. If she outright claims to have damning info, I'm ok with asking Shaziro to claim.

[Egg]

Meh, I'm willing to hear what the result is. If she outright claims to have damning info, I'm ok with asking Shaziro to claim.

I'm an odd night Neopolitan. Checked ETL n1 got no result. Therefore, I knew I was blocked. Shaz reacted as he knew I was blocked. Pressed him on it. Says he knows I didn't kill anyone for reasons and makes a jail reference. I try to tell him to jail only on even nights if he can.

On day 3, he starts speculating that I am scum and denies the jailkeep. So fuck yeah I want an answer.

Yeah, no. That's not near cop level. That's still you assuming he crumbed blocking you which still never happened.

[Egg]

Really, I was blocked Shaz knew. Case closed.

I don't think he knew

[Egg]

Magna, you're still ignoring the fact that I hadn't even read up to your suspicion until the day I caught up. So you're assuming I reacted to something I hadn't even seen yet. You're also ignoring multiple attempts to catch up before that. I'm not in the right emotional state to respond further.

[Egg]

Forgot to announce:

V/LA until Friday

[Egg]

Damn, why am I still alive =(

I kinda wanna lynch Magna but my reads have been shit.

[Egg]

Probably pointless to say I don't think Shaziro is SK

[Egg]

Two vigs isn't really an issue for me.

I started second guessing the moment I posted that though.

1) No modifier feels off
2) I think I gave him too much credit. His play if he's SK was "claim vig or bust" which makes no sense with any possibility of a real vig. So he had to be sure the extra kills were two scum teams for it to make any sense. But it could just be a huge mistake on his part.

But what I didn't want to get into yesterday was that it was obvious as hell Shaziro was softing vig. When Titus said something to the effect of "do you think I'm vig?" and he gave a firm "no" for "reasons", the obvious thing is he's a vig himself. I'd think a SK would be going "oh shit, there's a vig. I can't claim that" and he didn't so it felt real to me. What I don't get it the leap Titus made to "holy shit he blocked me". I've had a theory floating in the back of my head that Titus is a scum odd night role cop. I dunno. That's probably a discussion for another day though.

Basically, that's my thought process on Shaziro though. Everything pointed to him claiming vig and he was all in on that very early on which is reckless as hell for SK so I believed him. Even the way he explains seeing Lowell claiming the Killthestory kill and he went "wtf that was my kill". I mean even if he's SK, why claim to have killed Killthestory unless he actually did? But that still leaves the question of what happened to Brawl.

I'm sure you guys will lynch Shaziro with or without me anyway, but all I'm saying is I'm not completely sold.

[Egg]

Sorry, game was at night when I went on my vacation to Kentucky/Ohio so I didn't get to announce my V/LA. Will have some time on Thursday. Might try to do more before that.

[Egg]

VT

[Egg]

No. I don't do that.

[Egg]

No. I don't do that.

who do you think is scum.

My best guess is Magna but my confidence is pretty shattered in this game.

[Egg]

Is projectmatt mostly PoE or is there a case?

[Egg]

If those are my only options, projectmatt.

[Egg]

Process of elimination.

[Egg]

Cy, can you tell me why you're sure there are three scum left?

[Egg]

Cy, so you are sure Titus is town? Why can't she be a scum role cop for example?

Projectmatt, wanna help me bus Magna then if he's my buddy?

[Egg]

Cy, so you are sure Titus is town? Why can't she be a scum role cop for example?

Projectmatt, wanna help me bus Magna then if he's my buddy?

[Egg]

Titus, result?

[Egg]

Magna.

[Egg]

Actually maybe we should no lynch. No confirmed town left and we're on evens.

[Egg]

I mean Cy is confirmed if Titus is town but we don't know that so...

[Egg]

Zakk, I've had a stronger town read on you than on Titus for the entire game. That's not anything new. I'd look at both of you after Magna though obviously. Honestly, Titus/Cy is the only team possibility that really scares me and a no lynch would probably be the only way to beat that scum team.

Titus, no, I didn't notice that actually. Scum tend to have fake reads though so I'm not surprised.

[Egg]

Vote no lynch

[Egg]

Zakk, no lynch probably tells us whether Titus/zakk is possible or not and is the standard play on evens in LYLO anyway. Not doing that is basically saying thatif Titus and Cy are scum, we don't mind letting them win. Unless we lynch Titus which I don't want to do. A big part of me thinks she'd have fakeclaimed a guilty today as scum. If we're lynching today, I want to do Magna.

Unvote

[Egg]

Skimmed.

Zakk, I meant Titus/Cy. My bad

[Egg]

Magna.

[Egg]

1) It's a tough choice but I'd rather keep it to myself so I don't help scum tonight. I will say I'm not completely decided though.
2) Isn't it LYLO?

[Egg]

Meh, I'm an old timer and haven't really accepted the "mylo" term yet lol. It's mislynch or lose whether no lynch is possible or not, so LYLO is fine as a term to cover it. I'm just stubborn like that. Also don't like the term "multiball" or when people capitalize the "d" in "today".

[Egg]

While I'm at it, "vanilla scum" is a better term than "goon" (although that one is my offsite background) and "unconfirmed masons" is better than "neighbors" (but I've accepted that one because it's so universal now)

[Egg]

They could very easily be NKing based on who they think is mislynchable. Early on, I don't care as much about that but in LYLO if they want to NK someone I'm scumreading, I'll welcome that because I don't make that mistake the next day.

Look. It's not Magna/Cy or Magna/Creature.

That leaves me, you and Titus. Obviously, I can eliminate myself from that list. So it's you or Titus if Magna is the first scum.

I haven't decided past that and doing so helps scum in ways I don't care to get into if I broadcast that. I don't want scum to know which way I'd vote. If we lynch correctly today, scum's next kill is make or break. I want that choice to be difficult for them. That's all I'll say.

[Egg]

Instead, can we talk about why we're ruling out Titus/cy?

[Egg]

Zakk, honestly even if we lynch scum today I'll probably want to no lynch tomorrow. So it makes sense to just do it now. Why don't you think Cy could be Titus' buddy?

Cy, I fully understand I'm still in the lynch pool. Zakk's question is who would I lynch after Magna. I wouldn't lynch myself. You called yourself confirmed town though. Does that mean you know Titus is town?

[Egg]

Why would it mean that?

Can you be more specific?

[Egg]

VOTE: Ircher

why?

Its RVS.

Why are you already defending him?

VOTE: Ircher

So you aren't confirmed.

[Egg]

Vote Magna

This works.

[Egg]

Egg, tell me, why didn't you RB me n3? We prolly lose if you had?

I don't have that ability.

Are you all fine with a nightskip?

Sure.

[Egg]

All of us PM the mod or just one of us?

And sure, tho I think it's kinda unfair for scum, but might as well end it sooner I guess xD

It's really not. If there's only one left, they'd have no one to talk to. Once they decide who to NK, there's no point in waiting. I once suggested early day starts for like the last 3 or 4 nights as SK in an open setup with no mafia left. So they should have no problem with it.

[Egg]

hey Egg, come out come out wherever you are!

Just woke up.

I'm heavily leaning Zakk. Everything makes sense for Titus town.

[Egg]

I didn't want to say anything yesterday because Titus was still a possible NK and I still thought she might be scum so if she was killed, I'd have zakk as near confirmed scum. I thought about things though and Titus doesn't make much sense as scum. If I were scum, I'd absolutely be coming in very undecided just in case there was still a chance to lynch Titus. I really don't think it's her though.

Lol at zakk comparing to to newbie scum by the way. I've probably been scum five times as many times as you've played mafia. "Make words happen" is dumb if you are fluff posting to do it. If I just wanted to look active, I'd probably be ISOing and VCAing and stuff.

The fact that zakk was confident enough to vote so early is pretty telling though.

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1) zakk. I don't think there are 2 scum neighbors and I don't think you are scum.
2) Many times.

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Here are my large games on this account. Let me know if you need more

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65890
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=59293
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60471
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=58247
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=41158

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61824
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60825

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Sure. I'm Kmd in these:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63662
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=22099
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=15332
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=14190
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=13460
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=11674
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=10541

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Wow you guys destroyed them

Check the scum QT. That win was pretty much all me lol

so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up except to grandstand or appeal to superiority

Dude. You compared me to newb scum.

Another scum tell I use on more experienced scum is that they talk about the things they WOULD have done as scum, and use the fact that they didn't do it as a reason they aren't scum, i.e. put simply, WIFOM.

By that logic, you and I are both scum. When you were being pressured earlier, you mentioned something about how you'd let lynches go through or something as scum. Your ISO is too big for me to go find it, but I remember it for sure. Pretty sure town actually does this more than scum. It's a genuine "hey guys this isn't my scum game" more often than a "hey I did something I usually don't so let's blow that up".

And if you were being honest, you'd KNOW that I prefer to keep a scum team alive (i.e. Killer Instinct, which you were also in).

Yeah, killer instinct is why I town read you for the entire game. You played so differently here. So if you're scum, you deliberately changed your play from that game and it's impressive as hell. The only alternative to that is if Titus is scum though and I dunno. I don't see it.

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I think all of the Kmd ones were. I'll have to check later

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Oops. Ignore Gorrad's favorite fictional characters mafia. That had two teams. The rest is good though

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Zakk, I've played way too many games to be intimidated just because someone played well one time. Your play was so different from killer instinct to here and it's why I was townreading you and why you're going to win. Don't expect such a quick town read from me if we play again though lol. I'm actually surprised Creature sees the two games as similar from you. I don't at all. You're more confident here. More in control. More willing to take calculated risks. I might actually nom you for a body of work scummy award for scum play. But to counter the "I would have Nk'd Egg" arguement (didn't you just tell me "As scum I would..." is scummy?), why? I was townreading you pretty hard. Nking me would have made no sense especially with how I was too busy to play to my full potential for most of this game.

Titus, you know my scum game is stronger than this. If you can sway Creature or we no lynch, we can still stop Zakk from winning. It's all in your hands. There isn't much I can do now. Look at my scum games and the things I do to stay alive or at least further my buddies. Like the fake "post in the wrong PT" move I pulled to advance Silverwolf in Wake's large. Or the suggestion for Spy to claim tracking me to our NK in one of my Kmd games. Any games where I've been this weak, I've been town (team mafia, joss whedon). The only way we win this game is for you to see that. You're usually pretty good with information in front of here and you've got it all. You seem to have your mind made up. Try to step back and not fall victim to confirmation bias when reviewing meta, rereading, or whatever else you might do.

Vote Zakk

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Titus is confirmed town for not hammering me.

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Cy is confirmed town via flip. So Titus/Cy wasn't a concern coming into the day