New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

hallo!

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
^confscum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm not hunting he is just acting like a 3rd party.

You see, that's because you are looking for it. The only way for some people to force themselves to look town when scum is to SK-hunt.

My read on shotty is actually based on a tell I believe I found while doing pre-game research. I found a town game and a scum game and I read ISOs of both looking for differences in tone/attitude/tendencies. If anyone is interested, I suggest you do the same and come to your own conclusions, as I would rather not taint impressions if you can figure it out yourself, plus #effort.
shotty's most recent completed scum game that i looked at
Another scum game i checked out to test my theory on the tell. it applied.
shotty's most recent completed town game.
another town game i used to test the tell; it applied. however, this game is kind of old and i wasn't able to find a more recent town game, but i believe it is a valid tell for him.

Persivul is my first town read so far, only because I feel like he'd just be a dick to me if he wasn't.

I have not actually read pages 2-7. Gonna get to that over lunch today. See yall then.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

EBWOP: to clarify - i only got through about 4 people in pre-game rsearch before i got bored, and shotty's tell was the most solid, so i ISO'd him to see if it was here, and it is.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I like you this game ETL. Don't break my heart.

ok. lol i dunno what to say to that. i like you every game. until you make me crazy, and then i wanna bash my skull in. how about this - i promise to alert you when i'm getting frustrated and we can put any arguments on pause for a day to discuss later when emotions are not so high.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

tbh i dont know where sk even came from but i assume it's on one of the pages i didn't read. in any case, that's not why i'm scumreading you in the least. it's not even a factor.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

keep in mind those games were probably from 3-5 years ago.

only one of them is, but i work with what i got. doesn't make it any less valid, especially if it's something you aren't aware of.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I like you this game ETL. Don't break my heart.

ok. lol i dunno what to say to that. i like you every game. until you make me crazy, and then i wanna bash my skull in. how about this - i promise to alert you when i'm getting frustrated and we can put any arguments on pause for a day to discuss later when emotions are not so high.

Done. Codeword: Marshmallows. You say that and I will stop interacting with you. I say Dragonflies, you do the same.

you got it.

@pers - i think you may be comparing the wrong things in terms of what actually differentiates his play between town/scum games. take a look at the games i linked and see what you see. i mean, it's a tell i'm satisfied with, it feels solid to me and i feel really good about my vote right now. it'd be great if others saw the same thing i did but if they don't then they don't and hopefully they notice other things instead.

pedit - posts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I was hooked on heroin and dropped off the site after 26 posts.

hitting my goddamn heart strings dude. don't do that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

^ it's not "you did something", it's this is how you presented information in these scum games, and here's the difference in these town games. it's consistent, and that works for me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i dont need you to defend, and even if i explained, it's not something you'd be able to defend because of its consistency. i'm just being selfish and wanting to keep it on hand for future games with you. in any case, i dont really have the energy or willingness to put a ton of effort into convincing people, plus i'd rather they see it for themselves instead of just take my word for it. my vote is where i want it. if people join me, great, if not, well.. whatever. i'll either get you eventually or figure you out bettr as we go along.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

On an initial basis I have to say I disagree with your meta read on Shotty. I have two specific markers I read for in him and he’s really not showing either to this point. And it is very early.

noted.

What do you think of Pers as a player vis-a-vie skill level?

like, would i trust his reads/observations if i felt he was town enough? probably not, but that's more a comment on my own misplaced arrogance than on his actual skill level. to be real with you, i dont know. i haven't really played in a while and i dont recognize a lot of the names on this list. the last time i played with persivul, he was scum, i caught him, he pissed me off and then i just modded games for a long while (not related to him pissing me off - i got busy with school). i think he was pretty new then? he seems different now, more mellowed out, more seasoned, and i'm sure he's learned things along the way as he's probably played more while i've been gone.

i've just rambled a bunch of irrelevant nonsense. but ihope it answers your question.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i'm a really gut-based player. i like concrete evidence a lot, but i always begin with gut and figure out why later.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i'm a really gut-based player. i like concrete evidence a lot, but i always begin with gut and figure out why later.

Sp psuedo science instead of science.

attempt to discredit valid method.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

a lot of players begin with gut and investigate why they feel the way the feel to lead them to evidence. it works for me, it's how i operate. if you really want to attack my method of scum hunting, go ahead, but it doesn't invalidate it nor will it change how i do things, nor does it actually indicate my alignment in any way whatsoever. so...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Looking for evidence to prove your gut is bad.

You are either misunderstanding or purposely misrepresenting what I said. I didn't say "prove my gut". I said find out why. That means investigating whether it is valid or

not

.

tbh i dont really care what you think of how i play. it doesn't make a lick of difference here, so i'm just trying to figure out what exactly is the purpose of your criticisms. because it just looks to me like you're going out of your way to discredit my methods in an attempt to prevent people from working with me.

and honestly, that's scummy as fuck.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

criticizing the way someone prefers to play isn't scum hunting. it doesn't further the game at all. it doesn't help you understand me or what i'm doing, because you're not actually attempting to understand me at all, you're just saying "that's bad and you're bad". there's a big difference between what you're doing and what someone would do if they actually were interested in why a person was doing what they are doing.

you're not worried about figuring me out. you're only worrying about making me look bad. and that's fine, but it isn't scum hunting. it's discrediting, with a purpose, and it's not town motivated in any way shape or form.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

you act like i dont know what confbias is.. really?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

why don't you explain your motives here, shotty.

explain it to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, would i trust his reads/observations if i felt he was town enough? probably not, but that's more a comment on my own misplaced arrogance than on his actual skill level. to be real with you, i dont know. i haven't really played in a while and i dont recognize a lot of the names on this list. the last time i played with persivul, he was scum, i caught him, he pissed me off and then i just modded games for a long while (not related to him pissing me off - i got busy with school). i think he was pretty new then? he seems different now, more mellowed out, more seasoned, and i'm sure he's learned things along the way as he's probably played more while i've been gone.

i've just rambled a bunch of irrelevant nonsense. but ihope it answers your question.

Well seeing this I think your flippant “Pers is scum because he would piss me off” Town read is nonsense then. You acknowledge that he seems more seasoned as a player. Which would include both his Scum and Town games. Yet you are happy giving him a snap Town read based on him not pissing you off. Which is based on the old Pers not the new. There’s a pretty wide disconnect there.

ok. it's based on my last experience with him, which was only a few months ago, and he was aggressive as scum. you're free to ignore my read on him if you like, but yeah i'm happy to give him a gut town read, because that's how i feel, and i mentioned why so others could make their own determination about whether they agreed or not. you disagree. ok. you don't have to agree with me.

p-edit i knew what you meant

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i guess if i'm gonna be hanging around getting into it with people i might as well go read those 6 pages of rvs

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ircher stats are funny

but not scummy

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ok. it's based on my last experience with him, which was only a few months ago, and he was aggressive as scum. you're free to ignore my read on him if you like, but yeah i'm happy to give him a gut town read, because that's how i feel, and i mentioned why so others could make their own determination about whether they agreed or not. you disagree. ok. you don't have to agree with me.

To be fair it is more about reading you than agreeing or disagreeing that Pers is scum.

mk. that's good.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I was hooked on heroin and dropped off the site after 26 posts.

hitting my goddamn heart strings dude. don't do that.

this is in no way AtE, I want to pity, it's just a fact.

i know. i knew that when i read it. consider it more ooc. hit a soft spot for me that's all

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I only see that Zakk is scum if copper is scum.

did you cover reasoning for this between pg 4-7? i'm on pg 4. if not, could you expand a bit? i didn't come to that connection.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if your reads = guesses just replace out now.

duh titus don't you know that you can't guess at mafia, you have to only say things you know 100% to be true? shotty don't be ridiculous. we are barely scratching the surface of day 1 in a damn large game. wtf you think we all got daycops? i'd be suspicious if someone's reads were overly certain at this point in the game.

but on a srious note, titus, he's right about the copper thing - i was under the impression that he was attacking copper, not defending him?

p-edit i was going to respond in p-edit but i need to read that a couple times first. i'll come back to it. thanks

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I only see that Zakk is scum if copper is scum.

did you cover reasoning for this between pg 4-7? i'm on pg 4. if not, could you expand a bit? i didn't come to that connection.

I didn't.

Zakk coming out swinging as scum would only be to cover or hide something, it's more likely town. Swinging during RVS is high risk high reward strategy. Most of the time, it doesn't happen. Then Zakk's interaction with Copper and unvoting Ircher admits his push is RVS. If Zakk was RVSing hard to appear townie, he probably doesn't unvote Ircher but pretends to have something serious. The calculus changes a bit if Copper is scum. Then he wants to back off Ircher, let town demolish him, and hope Copper is forgotten about entirely.

ok, so.. i guess my trouble in understanding what you're saying here is that i didn't get the impression that zakk was doing... anything.. really. but after the first sentence you kinda lost me.

actually i dont understand at all. are these hypotheticals of his possible future behavior? or an analysis of what actually happened? what i saw was zakk sheeped shotty - null - then saw a bunch of pages posted and unvoted - also null - and hasn't really been involved since. what makes you think he's only scum if copper is? like, is it a kind of "if copper flips scum, look at zakk more closely" or "if copper flips scum, THEN zakk is definitely scum" (if this, why) or is it more "zakk is a solid town read UNLESS copper flips scum", and.. what is your read on copper?

p-edit i'm actually kind of town reading magnus but i'm wary because i get the feeling he's incredibly skilled at being scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

also because i like what he's doing but there are pings of LAMISTy stuff which make me uneasy.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if your reads = guesses just replace out now.

duh titus don't you know that you can't guess at mafia, you have to only say things you know 100% to be true? shotty don't be ridiculous. we are barely scratching the surface of day 1 in a damn large game. wtf you think we all got daycops? i'd be suspicious if someone's reads were overly certain at this point in the game.

but on a srious note, titus, he's right about the copper thing - i was under the impression that he was attacking copper, not defending him?

p-edit i was going to respond in p-edit but i need to read that a couple times first. i'll come back to it. thanks

He's got "copper" as a scumread, but doesn't really attack him. His interactions are all "I'm telling you Ircher's dead" and not pressing on his opinions. Copper's a scumread, but every post seems designed to have Copper look good.

When I cased Copper, Shotty acted like it didn't exist.

Defenses don't have to be direct.

I disagree that his posted scumread not resulting in immediate action at this point in time is indicative of association. I agree with the logic, just not the circumstances. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a defense though, since it wasn't really active. Your conclusion here seems to be that because he wasn't actively attacking him, he was defending him, but I don't think that's a good conclusion to come to. Like, I get your logic on this - applying the same principle as lying by omission, defense by lack of offense, but you can't apply that here. It's not like people only have one scumread at a time.

I don't actually have reads on either ircher or copper. I am bad at reading newbies.

p-edit: buncha posts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Titus - i feel like shotty really wants to attack me but knows it will look terrible if he goes too hard. I don't know if that's scum trying not to rock the boat or town being realistic though. I've done that myself as both.

p-edit: no it helps in ISO for continuity.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

oh yeah spoiler is fine

[EspeciallyTheLies]

she wants to see my reaction.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

she wants to see my reaction.

By forcing action on my part?

That's part of it. But also I *think* I understand why she thinks you not attacking me is scummy only because she knows how I get, but you don't so I don't know why she thinks you're avoiding it on that basis.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

besides titus being titus you're still my strongest scumread. just trying to sort her out loud for me more than anything else.

p-edit: BUMPS!!@

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL
Real talk lady, what makes you think Seth is newb-town.

who the fuck is seth?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

SethYazura, one of the players in the game.

well i didn't know that because the playerlist is too long.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

why don't you explain your motives here, shotty.

explain it to me.

Nah I think I'll be selfish and keep my reasons to myself.

ok so, i get the joke and all, but this should have been followed up with a real response, and i haven't gotten one, and it's an important question for me. what was the motive behind criticizing my scumhunting methods?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm going to wait to cast my vote, as I don't feel very comfortable with any of the wagons.

i didn't want you to be scum matt. but you are.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Copper, saying you have extreme certainty in a read is clearly expressing confidence. To be fair though, drmy is doing the same with Ircher and I doubt they are both scum so maybe it's null. But to answer your question more completely if you're still wondering, people are more likely to sheep someone who is confident than someone who isn't sure of themself. Therefore, yeah, conveying confidence is persuasive. Think back to any vote you've ever sheeped. Was the person confident? My guess is most of the time, yes. I agree that it's a heavily exaggarated statement from a statistics point of view, but it absolutely displays confidence. I'd go as far as to call it overconfidence.

And yeah, if Ircher is scum, I'd be shocked to find out Seth is his buddy after that SK accusation.

actually i think copper and shotty may both be scum and if multiball, same team. is multiball allowed in normals? i dont even know, it's been about a year maybe since i played a normal.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ircher's newbietown AF imo.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed. Day 1 is about lynching the scummiest player regardless though. Can you tell me why Ircher is so obvtown?

i didn't say he was obvtown. i said he looked super newbtown. and because that's how i feel about him, especially during those silly stats posts. he was trying. i think that section is probably a great place to look for opportunistic scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if you explained your motive for criticizing my methods, i missed it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

how is cy the top wagon with only 2 posts?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I got to page 11 and I got busy lol. I'll try to finish everything in a bit

I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now

VOTE: Ircher

I dunno what this is. I think votes on him are lazier than these posts though.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

zakk looks like scum too tbh

[EspeciallyTheLies]

tbg is scum. lotta words with zero actual content. he never explains why he thinks what he thinks beyond "it didn't sit right with me".

VOTE: tbg

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Shotty ISO May 21

1. 10 - Asks Copper why he voted me -

I just cannot understand why Shotty asked Copper about his vote like that. One idea could be Shotty/Copper scum with Shotty distancing from Copper. Another option is Shotty is super paranoid about things, but I don't get that vibe from Shotty's later posts. One thing I'm sure of though is it is very odd and seems out of place. -

-1 Point

2. 15 - Accuses me of defending Copper -

I don't understand this post really either. Copper's vote was obviously RVS and you did ask why. Granted, not addressed at me, but that would've been the answer almost anyone who did answer would have given, simply cuz that's a fact. -

-3 Points

3. 20 - Buddying accusation at Copper and me -

Ok, start thinking Shotty. I'm not saying it's impossible, but a Copper/Ircher team at that moment was actually unlikely. Why would we as scummates have a real need to defend each other mutually when your scumread had no solid basis? Your analysis doesn't make the most sense & is full of bias. -

0 Points

4. 34 - States general chit-chat happens *only* in General Discussion -

This has got to be one of the worst posts I've seen (maybe the worst) outside the newbie queue. Have you never seen players act friendly towards each other in RVS simply because they played before (or know each other in RL, but not the case here). That sort of stuff is general chit-chat and should be considered null 99/100 times. -

-5 Points

5. 38 - Claims I'm dead -

Do tell me Shotty, why do you keep saying I'm dead when I'm clearly not. Once or twice might have been fine for RVS purposes, but continuing to push it for 10 pages is ridiculous and it seems like you are actually trying to use it as proof I'm scum. -

-1 Point

6. 43 - "activity is, trust me. Also why are you so jolted if it doesn't matter? Town shouldn't get this excited, well I guess I did just kill you." -

What is this? Now you're trying to use stereotypes and "One-Size-Fits-All" arguments to advance your case. -

-3 Points

7. 185 - Shotty's scumread on me @ this point is based on not playing exactly like previous games and the stat discussion. Also states Zakk is TPR -

Both of your arguments are null. Let's cover the statistics one first though -- Whether silly and/or stupid, the statistics is just null cuz town can be just as silly and/or stupid as scum can be. Now, the argument that I do not mention my # of town games in other games -- Not AI because 1) Metas change 2) I'm gonna bet that you looked only at 1 or 2 games, excluding the marathon games at the shelter and 3) The argument itself is not how meta works; you were looking for an exact, specific thing, but meta doesn't work that way. Playstyle/Personality is what meta should be used for, and looking to see what I exactly do or do not say about myself is too specific for meta purposes. Finally, your TPR comment - Why TPR? I would not be surprised if this game is multiball (as a large, it probably is), but what made you think TPR specificly and why are you even actively searching for one. You didn't even provide evidence. -

-5 Points

8. 204 - Says I'm very easy to read -

Do you know how many times I've been mislynched as town cuz of playstyle? Countless number of times, and yet you are claiming I'm easy to read. Since you apparently did meta me, I want to ask what about my past games makes you think that argument is still valid. Anyone who actually looks and pays attn realizes it isn't that simple. -

-1 Point

9. 241 - Easier to scumhunt not town than is scum -

No, no, no, you got this all wrong. Hunting for anti-town things is gonna make towns ML a ton of players who are newer and/or accidentally commit scumtells. Searching for evidence proving someone is scum is the correct way to go imo because its more foolproof. You try to analyze motive rather than just looking at words. -

0 Points

10. 274 - Says Titus is changing definition of defend -

I might be biased here, but Titus is right. Defenses don't have to be direct, and in fact, there's a term for what Titus is accusing you of: Chainsawing - An indirect defense by targeting the player's attacker. Ok, on second thought, you're not chainsawing since I never attacked Copper, but you were still indirectly defending Copper by attacking me. -

-1 Point

11. 319 - Claims (once again) I'm conf!scum without the guilty -

Ok, this is really annoying me, and you've yet to give a solid reason as to why you think there's a 97+% chance I'm scum. Please do, or stop claiming I'm conf!scum. -

-1 Point

12. 391 - Defends Cythe by stating he's being lazy -

If it weren't for the rest of your iso, which might I mention has been 95% focused on me, yet never gave a single good reason why I'm scum, I would townread you for this post. But, considering the rest of your iso, this feels like a scumbuddy defense. -

-1 Point

Total Score: -22 points
Average Score: -1.83 (-22 / 12)
Final Score: -2.83 (Out of -6; includes bias score of -1)

lmfao wtf is this...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ircher, kindly shut the fuck up. The more your case gets talked about, the more credence it appears to have although it's total garbage RVS. You know it. I know it. If you actually did the slightest thing scummy, I'd be all over it. You just haven't.

You realize how Copper has displayed

actual inconsistencies

and people are pushing awkard things you are saying because they don't like math. Get real.

Ok, Cythe, was gonna give benefit of the doubt, but your last posts changed my mind.

VOTE: Cythe

How come every time I change my vote, you follow me? I don't wanna be a double voter? Stahp it.

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

This reeks of coaching. I take it scum don't have daytalk, eh?

VOTE: Titus

Sorry, friend. You gots ta go.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

On an unrelated note, I was concerned with the way ETL and Titus fell into an easy early alliance. Good to see that breaking up.

We have a long history of ending up at each others throats and saying mean things, and we both know that and I think both of us actively try to be nicer to each other each time we play together. At least I do, I feel this way, cuz it's easier to remain in the game and not get burnt out. I wanted to let her know that right away so we have an understanding before shit hits the fan. Because it inevitably does when we play together.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

You honestly think ircher is scum? Totally disagree

You honestly think scum Titus would stick her neck out in public like that for a newb scumbuddy instead of crucifying him and riding it for town cred? Totally disagree

I think she was showing a bit of anxiety at whatever he was saying because she may feel it links back to her and she sees him heading for a lynch. If they don't have daytalk, she can't coach him in the PT, she has to find a way to make him shut up in-game. She's not conspicuously "sticking her neck out" to save him, but based on her voting patterns thus far and her arguments against those voting for him, it definitely leads me to think she wants to prevent his lynch.

Also... Titus tends to protect her buddies as long as she can without giving herself away, not bus them. I've seen it time and time again, it's an innate urge for her, as much as she tries to subvert it, I still see glimpses of it, especially early in the game when no one is particularly looking.

p-edit: Even if it wasn't meant to be included, it's especially relevant to that post.

p-edit 2 - another post.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

which is actually fair to assume in a large cuz otherwise it will last like 10 days; there's bound to be another killing role in the game

Why are you making the assumption that 10 days is not a normal thing for LARGE games? Assume 4-5 mafia of 21 players, so 16-17 town players. Even assuming a town lynch and a town lost each day/night, a perfect scum win only requires 6-7 game days to clear town's numbers.

So... it just sounds like you are talking out of your ass here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I mean, why are you assuming it would take 10 days? That is the question.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Notice how cy being a "lazy" vote is thrown around. So what? If it's scum, it dies. The lazy comment means nothing but attempts to disparage those on the wagon. It doesn't even take a stance on Cy. It's a cop out.

No.

Cy has no content. He's a fucking null. And yet he's the biggest wagon with NULL posts????

Hello? wtf are we doing... that makes zero sense.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Its.

Fucking.

Null.

If he flips town, it tells me fucking nothing.
If he flips scum, it tells me fucking nothing.

All it tells me, is that the people on his wagon, are a bunch of lazy motherfuckers, or scum, or both.

The cy wagon is literally the dumbest sheep bullshit I have ever seen and unless he actually gets his ass back in here and gives me a reason to give a damn about him, I'm going to continue to think that the people voting for him are, like I said, lazy as fuck or fucking scum hopping on low hanging fruit.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's all i'm gonna say about it because I don't care enough in a game this large on Day One to be talking to concrete walls.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The fact you are saying you can't is highly suspect ETL

HE'S GOT TWO FUCKING POSTS, TITUS

for fucks sake are you serious right now....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You and I have seen a lot of sheep wagons over the years. Why is this one the rare snowflake that cannot be scumhunted?

and i've argued against all of them too, because they are bullshit no content wagons that do not give any information when D1 is the most fucking important.

you fucking know that so dont try and change the story in an effort to make me look scummy for pointing out how fucking dumb a no info wagon is...

why do we always have this same goddamn argument, you either never learn or you are scum because i've been right every single time.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

maybe you need to learn how to get information from them.

maybe.

doesn't make my assessment "suspicious" though, which was a silly thing to say.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

meh. if you're town, you're wrong.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, its my opinion. i don't feel his two posts are alignment indicative, thus making the wagon on him dumb in my eyes. the very fact of my own alignment makes your assessment incorrect, point of fact. but what i'm saying is that no just because i see the same dumbass things happen time and time again doesn't mean i suddenly understand why people do dumbass things.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So, I know that I haven't had much of a presence, but did we not see seth literally claim mafia goon?

For real though, explain 174, because I actually can't parse that into anything I understand.

Copper said I will laugh hard as scum if I flip scum in my lynch, which is a contradiction, since lynching sk

as a mafia goon

early in this game is serious trouble as there will be less kills per night, giving the Town more time to correctly lynch the mafia.

upon being asked to explain "If I am scum that would be a serious problem, accidentaly lynching your own teammates or the sk, effectively reducing the kills per night in a large game will lead to your demise" he literally said he was a goon without being prompted as to his role whatsoever. Does anyone disagree with my reasoning here?

......

Is this a real thing... where did copper say that..?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also, Egg - I don't particularly find the peacemaker routine a town-thing generally.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Seth
I see, no I meant that as mafia you would be happy to see

my flip

so it would be doubly funny if town bought your argument that copper should be lynched for being an arrogant prick, cause you get one up over me

and

over town.

This said your statement still doesn't make sense because you can't be an SK and a mafia goon at the same time.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

fuckin A man... i just read Seth's ISO and it just sounds like newbiespeak but it really also sounds like newbiescumslippingspeak too.

all of you are scum i swear to god

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: ircher

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Scum do not have mechanical day talk

BAM.

Titus is scum. With Ircher.

*dance*

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Scum do not have mechanical day talk

BAM.

Titus is scum. With Ircher.

*dance*

I dont get that conclusion.

Then read the thread.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don’t like this because ETL is experienced enough to easily be able to look this up without prompting. Yet he / she (yeah, no gender indication in profile … so not going to assume) is happy to just assume away. Inside info leaking out subconsciously perhaps?

I assumed no daytalk because Titus' posts to Ircher looked like in-game coaching. I think that's pretty clear... like.. THAT is where the assumption came from... yet you somehow come up with some cockamamey roundabout explanation that I

must

have known such-and-such.. ya know, despite the fact that

I do not play Normals, ever

.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also I'm a she, but it doesn't matter either way and I don't care what pronoun you use.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

EBWOP: to clarify - i only got through about 4 people in pre-game rsearch before i got bored, and shotty's tell was the most solid, so i ISO'd him to see if it was here, and it is.

Who else did you meta research?

Have you ever done this as Town before?

the first 4 alphabetically. I usually copy the list into excel and type notes but I get bored quickly. and yes I have done it before, when I don't have anything else to do and I'm excited about playing another game.

P edit yes I've seen and used coaching evidence to catch scum before. no I don't remember which of my 70+ games that happened in. it also especially applies to Titus.

and as far as reading the wiki I don't give a shit. I didn't feel like digging in the wiki while I was at work. you seem to think these are scum points, so you should vote me. I don't really care to continue this with you as I've got better things to do like ISO people and catch scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

although magma is probably scum trying to move the focus off Titus and richer and onto me. that rarely works out well, just so you know

[EspeciallyTheLies]

although magma is probably scum trying to move the focus off Titus and richer and onto me. that rarely works out well, just so you know

So now I can be added to your "Scum with Titus and Ircher" pool. Gotcha.

You must have me mistaken for someone who sees scum motivated play, scum-hunts said player, and backs off when an "Appeal to Proficiency" is dropped. You should probably know that doesn't work out well for scum

pretty sure I never told you to back off. In fact the record shows I said tou should vote me if you think I'm scum. there's nothing scum motivated in my play. it's literally impossible due to my actual alignment.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

egg is also scum. his ISO does NOT look like town, whoever asked me that. it looks like scum trying to appease people and avoid rocking the boat.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

heur only has 4 more posts than cy. If you don't like the cy wagon because the flip wouldn't tell us much, why do you want a heur wagon?

i'm guessing this is rhetorical

why the hell would this be a rhetorical question?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

who's scum for you, haven't been reading since I don't care

Why the fuck did you join the game then, you fucking twat waffle?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'll report you to the mod then ; )

ok then.

I joined cuz SirCakez is mah boy but you got all these stupid ass reasons for scumreading me so I stopped caring.

One, I haven't made any comments about a read on you.

Two, if you don't care about actually playing the game, you're doing

SirCakez

a huge disservice.

Three, blackmailing the players who are trying to read you by saying you refuse to participate unless they townread you is, well, fucking stupid and you need to grow the hell up.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why wouldn't you see that as scum motivated ETL? Do you think Kill is town?

VOTE: TBG

Cy wagon regrettably is dead.

His refusal to play? It's scummy, sure, because I don't want to believe a town player would be so

rude

to his team mates. But I've seen it too often from town players who just don't seem to understand this is a team game, and as far as I'm concerned, he's a non-entity. My preference would be for him to gtfo and be replaced if he really doesn't care that much, but this is also a large game where replacements are difficult to come by, and

unlike him

I actually have an ounce of respect for the mod. If he gets so booboohurt over being scum read, while at the same time refusing to provide insight to his thoughts, lol.. well.. fuck him.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

id respond but I'm not a townread and I don't care about your opinion

Once again, you ignorant child, I haven't once said you were scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"wah you aren't town reading me"

fucking lol

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's seriously one of my biggest pet peeves, and the one reason notscience is on my blacklist despite being a good friend. If you legitimately have that little rspect for the mod and for the other players in the game, and you have that little desire to, ya know,

play the fucking game

, why the fuck are you even here? You're just wasting space and everyone's time with your dumbass bullshit. Just to be fucking special. "Oh boo hoo, the game isn't going exactly as I want it to go, so I'm just not gonna play."

Give me a fuckin break, this isn't kindergarten.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lol he thinks I'm hurt. I'm not hurt, I'm annoyed. Anyway, this isn't a teamgame. If it was a teamgame then one person wouldn't be able to hardcarry a game. This game is how the stronger players interact with each other and how much control they have. Almost like the democratic system.

Once again, you ignorant child, you haven't stated I'm a townread

lmfao

you seriously don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Great, ETL, you think this is a team game. Great, well I am town telling you that your vote sucks given your stated opinions. Mafia being a team game means that everyone has to work together. It means you don't vote the guy who is weird as shit when he's obvtowning and ignore the actual scum that are up your ass if town. Everyone has a purpose. Work with people.

Kill the story needs you to sort him. Then sort him. Getting town to ID each other is a good thing.

He's acting like a prick, so he can fuck right off. I'm not just going to give him a townread because he wants one, this isn't the goddamn dentist where you get a lolly for being a good boy fuck him. He actually thinks this is a solo game, and to me that = shit player to be avoided.

Pass.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ahahahaha dude you make me out to sound mad but you're literally so butthurt rn hahahahahahaha

Butthurt about what exactly?

It's a shame more player don't actually care about the game, and are only out to polish their egos.

It pisses me off when people just take up room and don't actually show any desire to play the game they signed up for. I'm here to play the game and play to my wincon. You're just wasting space that someone else who actually gives a shit about it could be using to play. It's a damn shame.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

out of my 13 games, I've only been lynched 5 times, one of which was as scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lol ok man, you care.

show it.

p-edit: do you really honestly think how many times you've been lynched is a measure of your skill in any way whatosever? and do you really think i give a shit?

Like, seriously, it doesn't matter whether you like me or not, it doesn't matter if you think I'm an asshole or not. It literally doesn't matter how many times you've died or not died, or whatever. None of that shit matters, here and now.

You posted that you didn't care about this game. I, rightly, gave you shit for it. Do you truly honestly believe that expecting other players to

play the game

is an unreasonable expectation??

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's a matter of playstyle which you can't dictate. You calling me names is hypocritical because you don't like how I play.

No. It has nothing to do with playstyle and everything to do with the fact that you stated in no uncertain terms that you didn't care about this game. Simple as that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jesus Christ. Forget it. You're thick-skulled and dense and clearly cannot even understand what I'm telling you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

shut the fuck up if you're not gonna listen to what I say

... lol.. this is the very definition of butthurt.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do you truly honestly believe that expecting other players to play the game is an unreasonable expectation??

[EspeciallyTheLies]

God please replace out. You're so annoying

You do know this is against the rules right? If anyone is going to report anyone for anything, it would be this.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yep. I'm so mad lol..

I tried to be civil with you and extend a discussion on your logic, but you continued to be a rude little boy. And that's fine.

In any case, you can just stop responding to me at any time. Cmon, be the bigger man.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

k.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

< Female college graduate working on 2 additional degrees while being a full-time accountant. So... no dick to bother measuring, buddy.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Stop replying to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

stop talking to me

what are you, 10?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Like, now I'm just doing it on purpose.

Titus - I don't know if any this is alignment indicative whatsoever, but I'm not interested in lynching him for now.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I actually preferred the TBG=scum idea better the more I think about it.

VOTE: tbg

I do plan to come back to you, Titus, so you might as well kill me tonight, cuz you know I won't give up.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I disagree. She was voting Ircher for talking funny. Thus, ETL is perfectly willing to push a policy lynch, but she didn't push you?

Scum can also get upset when people don't provide enough lynchbaity things.

ETL's sudden flip on Ircher as well was weird.

?? Show me where I said I was voting him for talking funny....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That is blatantly false Titus, you're now resorting to straight up lies?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Actually, nevermind. I don't care to hear what you have to say. I already know what you're trying to do now. Classic scum Titus bs.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I actually preferred the TBG=scum idea better the more I think about it.

VOTE: tbg

I do plan to come back to you, Titus, so you might as well kill me tonight, cuz you know I won't give up.

Why do you like TBG as scum more?

It's in my ISO. Find it yourself instead of making shit up.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Titus. You cherry picked posts and didn't include any of the ones where I explained my read change on Ircher... Was that on purpose?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ircher stats are funny

but not scummy

ircher's newbietown AF imo.

VOTE: ircher

Yeah, the stats thing is what you're voting him for AFTER saying he was newbtown for the same thing. You haven't really pushed Ircher as scum individually. You only tried to link him through me, which suggests a motive to just throw shade at me.

damn i didnt actually ISO ETL but why the fuck would they push that PL and not mine?

thats so inconsistent i think i see your point

read the ISO for posts she deliberately left out. It's not a policy lynch. I suspected Titus of coaching ircher in the thread. there were several pages of discussion about it yet she deliberately didn't include those posts. it's deceitful.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I disagree that his posted scumread not resulting in immediate action at this point in time is indicative of association. I agree with the logic, just not the circumstances. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a defense though, since it wasn't really active. Your conclusion here seems to be that because he wasn't actively attacking him, he was defending him, but I don't think that's a good conclusion to come to. Like, I get your logic on this - applying the same principle as lying by omission, defense by lack of offense, but you can't apply that here. It's not like people only have one scumread at a time.

I don't actually have reads on either ircher or copper.

I am bad at reading newbies.

p-edit: buncha posts.

ircher's

newbietown AF

imo.

You went from being bad at reading newbies to being able to identify someone as newbtown AF in a couple hours.

and? I maintain I'm not great at pinning newbies. they haven't acclimated to ms yet and they are difficult to read difinitively. that doesn't mean I'm going to completely ignore them and not try to read them as best I can...?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

r u townreading me?

you are null. shouldn't change whether you actually care to find truth or just believe the skewed depiction of someone else without any research.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Right now, Titus is attempting to move focus onto me and deliberately mislead others who might be too lazy to actually look for themselves.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

She knows if she pushes me hard enough she'll piss me off and negate any real discussion about her buddies in the thread. I'm leaving anyway so have fun with that.

@mod: I will be V/LA beginning tomorrow at noon until next Tuesday. I'm going camping for 5 days for Memorial Day weekend.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

titus is the only one announcing me as a townread so i have to blindly follow her to victory unless someone else townreads me

I really hope this is satire.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So you believe anyone town reading you must be town?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lol nevermind. You do what you think is best.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

and? I maintain I'm not great at pinning newbies. they haven't acclimated to ms yet and they are difficult to read difinitively. that doesn't mean I'm going to completely ignore them and not try to read them as best I can...?

No, but it does mean that you shouldn't be confident enough to call them newbtown as fuck.

that's how i felt at the time. if you take titus out of the equation, his iso still reads that way, but it looked like titus was coaching him. that's also why i prefered to vote titus instead but no one was listening to me and i figured if ircher was to be the lynch, then if he flipped scum, i'd have a better chance of proving my point about titus. make sense?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

no, anyone town reading me wants to see content. i give content.

That's not what this says.

i have to blindly follow her to victory

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Right now, Titus is attempting to move focus onto me and deliberately mislead others who might be too lazy to actually look for themselves.

You could actually show where you scumread Ircher by himself if you think my analysis is wrong.

Your view on Ircher makesno sense.

Ircher is a noob and I cannot read them well.
Ircher is newbtown as fuck.
Titus defended Ircher so they are scumbuddies.
Vote on Ircher after Egg and I highlight that there's a wagon on Ircher and your case required Ircher scum.

Then when you are pissed of at KTS, your response is to get on the wagon we are both on?

Just wtf...

I was scumreading TBG. If you want to help me lynch him, great. I don't have confirmation about anything yet - it's D1. I have many scumreads that I hope to narrow down as time goes on. You know this. I don't know why you seem to have a hard time understanding what's going on here. Like, you're looking at my trajectory as though there's some kind of hidden agenda behind what I'm doing, as though there's a definitive purpose, and there was a reason behind the votes I made

beyond

the fact that I'm scum reading them. That is your problem, and really speaks volumes about your own motivations this game, tbh.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If you think that you established an independent scumread on Ircher, you can show the posts.

I never said I did. Where did this come from? I've been saying the whole time that he was scum if you were scum, thus my initial vote on you and not on him. My story hasn't changed. What are you doing?

You seriously can't be arsed to read my ISO with any semblence of intention to actually sort me instead of simply trying real hard to cast me as scummy?\

You asked me what my read on TBG was. I didn't have one. I was in the middle of doing ISOs anyway so I took a look at TBG as well. These 3 posts were the result of looking at ISOs of these players, and giving my impression,

as you requested

:

I got to page 11 and I got busy lol. I'll try to finish everything in a bit

I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now

VOTE: Ircher

I dunno what this is. I think votes on him are lazier than these posts though.

zakk looks like scum too tbh

tbg is scum. lotta words with zero actual content. he never explains why he thinks what he thinks beyond "it didn't sit right with me".

VOTE: tbg

Was that really so hard? If you actually gave a shit about my TBG you should have asked me to expand more on this, and I would have gladly obliged.

Trying to claim me not being psychic is somehow bad is ridiculous.

What the fuck are you talking about here?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL – you keep calling Titus scum. Do you think she is bussing TBG then?

I don't have enough data to determine that at this time. There's just as much possibility of multiball as there is for single-team mafia. At the moment, I have several scumreads and I'm voting them as I feel more or less confident as the day goes on.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL, that's what I thought. You never had an independent scumread on Ircher.

And this is important because...?

So, basically you attempted to say I was scum with Ircher (who you had as obvtown as fuck) for defending him.

Incorrect. You were coaching him, not defending him. He said something, you told him not to say things like that. He said other things, you told him to shut up. It read as coaching to me, and with the mod confirmation that scum do not have daychat, that strengthened the read.

When it gets highlighted your read depends on Ircher scum, you jump over to Ircher.

You are confusing correlation with causation. I chose to move to Ircher because no one was helping me lynch you, and as I explained

on this page

, I believed that if he flipped scum, that would be further proof of you being scum. However, I still think that logic is backwards, and he's only scum if

you

are.

The read on TBG is stale. He began giving reasons with reads long ago, even though they are not good reasons.

?? Who the hell are you to tell me my reads are or are not stale? It's not stale to me, or I wouldn't be voting him, now would I? Just because he "gave reasons" doesn't mean he's less of a scumread.

That still doesn't explain why you'd follow me and KTS, when you aren't townreading either of us.

Again, correlation != causation. I'm not "following" you, don't give yourself that much credit, Titus. I'm voting where I feel like voting.

@Kill/Magna, you down for an ETL wagon? Magna, if not, vote TBG?

And there it is, folks. I was wondering when you were going to come around to that.

I can read you like a book Titus. When are you going to learn some new tricks?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL, You were scumreading TBG for not giving reasons and having zero content. TBG later began providing content. That is in contrast to your stated scumread.

Incorrect. Learn to read. I'm not going down this road with you, again. If you cannot put in enough effort to read the words I'm typing, then why should I humor you with responses? It's frustrating and pointless and a waste of my time.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL, You were scumreading TBG for not giving reasons and having zero content. TBG later began providing content. That is in contrast to your stated scumread.

Incorrect. Learn to read. I'm not going down this road with you, again. If you cannot put in enough effort to read the words I'm typing, then why should I humor you with responses? It's frustrating and pointless and a waste of my time.

You're claiming I am not reading when there is not a coherent story for your reads. That makes zero sense and so do you. That's being generous.

Your lack of understanding is your problem, not mine. I've done more than enough in the way of trying to help you understand me. Either you just cant, or you're not willing.

Vote me already. I'm done interacting with you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: Titus

[EspeciallyTheLies]

got home today. started catching up until page 52 or whatever. it's amazing how suddenly I've become the deadline compromise lynch when it's pretty obvious scum have been trying to drum that up for the last 30 pages.

I'm a vanilla townie. better than lynching something useful at least. good luck. have fun. bye.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

also anen is scum. he slipped but I'm mobile so find it yourself.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm doing the same as town many times.

^

[EspeciallyTheLies]

thAts not how I read it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

When is deadline? I may have some time tonight to go through some ISOs but not many. The rest will have to be done over the night.

I need to reset/refresh and take a better look at some people in ISO. I've caught up and tried to follow along with most of the major discussions so I think that will help.

Titus - understood on Anen's post. It stood out to me in my catch up but I suppose I can see how that would mean that, given an obvious difference in language for Anen.

UNVOTE:

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Very much interested in what ELT has found slip-wise (or thinks she has found).

Looks like you are catching up so I assume you will come across the quote I made later on, but it turned out to be a misunderstanding of language.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am not in a hood. Given there's four people in it, the likelihood of scum in it is high (but not a forgone conclusion). If scum are in it, they know the names. So would you tell us who is in there?

Ummm are you hunting for people to kill? I don't think so.
They can reveal themselves if they chose to.
I will converse with them at night and if I scumread them I will out them.

No, what she's saying is that based on the number of people allocated to the neighborhood, there is a very high chance at least one of the members is mafia.

1 in 4 is a lot better than ?? in 21. By giving the names, you allow us to narrow down the pool of possible suspects, which gives us a better chance of lynching correctly today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@mod: I do believe given the high percentage of players who were V/LA over the last week, an extension of at least 48 hours would be reasonable. Whatdya say? ♥

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't really want to reveal anyone unless I scumread them.
I don't want you FoS them based on just neighborhood likelyhood? Isn't it decided by the mod beforehand?

Yes but as this is a Normal-classified game, it must follow certain rules. Experienced players who are familiar with these rules can often speculate about the setup given some information. Success of this can go both ways, but more information is always better for town.

The other thing is, how well do you trust yourself to read people within the hood correctly in order to relay that information to us, rather than allow your team mates to help you read people? In my opinion, it's better to provide the info. It's up to you, certainly, and I do understand not wanting to "out" hood-members, but in this case, that fear is generally only expressed by mafia, so if there is someone in the hood telling you they don't want to be outed, I'd be wary of that person in particular.

There's more to the theory behind it - I'd be happy if you revealed the members, but not terribly heartbroken if you chose not to.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why the fuck am I not seeing any goddamn p-edit posts?!?!??

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@mod: I do believe given the high percentage of players who were V/LA over the last week, an extension of at least 48 hours would be reasonable. Whatdya say? ♥

I plan to give an extension once I get the empty slots filled.

You're the best!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Which concerns me because I don't even have reads on them.

This leads me to believe that you feel your ability to read those people is better than anyone else on the playerlist. Is this the case? What does your read on those people have to do with allowing others to get a better handle on them?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Which concerns me because I don't even have reads on them.

This leads me to believe that you feel your ability to read those people is better than anyone else on the playerlist. Is this the case? What does your read on those people have to do with allowing others to get a better handle on them?

This tells me you have a big ego.

I'm just trying to get you to consider that this is a team game and bouncing ideas off other players can be really helpful as town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Liger claiming the hood makes him more likely town, imo
I don't see scum claiming that right off the bat.

I felt the same.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Has there been a lot of discussion in the hood, Liger? By any one person in particular?

p-edit: I probably worded than worse than intended - it wasn't a judgement of you or your ability; it was more about using the other players as a resource.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Has there been a lot of discussion in the hood, Liger? By any one person in particular?

p-edit: I probably worded than worse than intended - it wasn't a judgement of you or your ability; it was more about using the other players as a resource.

The hood is only open at night, so zero discussion.

Shame; I was thinking there might be pre-game chatter. Often hoods are open before the game begins.

p-edit: buncha posts

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I thought everyone was in a hood. Could I not have made a mistake and thought they were public knowledge already?

If you had scum buddies, you'd already know whether everyone was in a hood or not because they'd have told you.

Actually nevermind. If they don't have day talk and PTs weren't open in pre-game, then they probably have not had a chance to converse at all. This does make for some interesting data though tbh.

Still think this all makes Liger pretty town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I’ve now had time to review your ISO. If you thought that was a slip why didn’t you vote when you posted your thoughts?

You honestly wanna know the truth?


I was pooping. And then I went to bed cuz I was exhausted. By the time I'd gotten back to the thread Titus and Anen had discussed it and I realized I misread it, so I didn't bother.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I was pooping. And then I went to bed cuz I was exhausted.

Wow, that must have been an impressive poop to leave you exhausted like that.

noooo I had just gotten back from camping. Packing everything back in the car in the hot sun, then a 2.5 hour drive, then unpacking, everything straight into the laundry and a good poop. Yah man exhausted!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

OOC - Some pics from the trip:

[EspeciallyTheLies]

OH YEAH. People were asking why I hadn't mentioned Anen wrt my pre-game research. That's because I have trouble reading anen and that's pretty much the only note about him. Also nothing about alban. I've got notes for Anen, convergentconclusion (?? I guess they got replaced so that's useless..), copper, cy, desmond, shotty and egg, but i didn't really get into Egg's past games.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Proof of when I created the excel doc and the notes within Normally I don't share that stuff but I didn't get much done on it anyway so I don't care.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Proof of when I created the excel doc and the notes within Normally I don't share that stuff but I didn't get much done on it anyway so I don't care.

This feels like a desperate attempt for town cred

ok. I was asked for it. I provided. Disregard it if you think it's so fake then. idgaf what you think cuz I'm pretty sure you are scum anyway.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Town reads,

need to organize into tiers:
cy, expedience, liger, lowell, mahdia, nosferatu

Scum reads

, also needs ordering:
copper, HA, zakk

nulls

to be further sorted (tonight):
anen, shotty, egg, ircher, kts, magna, persivul, projectmatt, seth, titus, tbg

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I didn't push Seth. I had Copper as a suspect but dropped him. Matt or Egg are in his place currently.

@ETL, The Brawl wagon is still a thing.

eh. I dunno how I feel about that right now.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ircher, shotty can go in the town pile.
persivul and project Matt into the scum pile.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

magna reminds me of Thor with all his annoying questions. still not alignment indicative.

I need a pile called "gut says town but not confident enough in my ability to tell the difference" and same on scum side.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

how many scum are we looking for realistically? max of 6 I would think? allows for 2 teams of 3 or maybe one team of 5. that's what I'm thinking.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

egg in the scum pile.

I want Titus to be town. she LOOKS town but I don't trust my gut there.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Zakk is pretty awfully scum.

VOTE: zakk

"your reads are shit. you are shitty. blehh!"

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm saying that supposed scum slips usually aren't really slips, but rather a way to push a townie who just worded something awkwardly.

Either you need to learn how to analyze intention better, or you are scum deliberately spewing BS. Since I know you aren't stupid, it must be the latter.

^ I'd be down for a Pers lynch.

VOTE: Persivul

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's odd considering that you later conceded that it really wasn't a slip, rather it was just the wording.

Correct. Not "trying to push a townie who just worded something awkwardly". You immediately tried floating that without bothering to look into what actually occurred or my actual thinking on the situation. In fact, you didn't even question me about it, like Titus did. It looks to me like you are intentionally trying to make anything stick, and that's just not town-motivated.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's odd considering that you later conceded that it really wasn't a slip, rather it was just the wording.

this

Do you need him to hold your dick while you pee, too?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's odd considering that you later conceded that it really wasn't a slip, rather it was just the wording.

Correct. Not "trying to push a townie who just worded something awkwardly". You immediately tried floating that without bothering to look into what actually occurred or my actual thinking on the situation. In fact, you didn't even question me about it, like Titus did. It looks to me like you are intentionally trying to make anything stick, and that's just not town-motivated.

So he accuses you of trying to make something stick and your defense is well you're just trying to make anything stick...

Except no. Because I pointed out a slip I thought I caught. There was discussion around it. I then realized I misread it and said so.

In contrast, Persivul has tried jumping on any bad bandwagon possible and attempting to push BS no matter how shitty it stinks.

Are you scumreading me? If so, just vote me and stop talking to me because you're already beginning to piss me off.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's odd considering that you later conceded that it really wasn't a slip, rather it was just the wording.

Correct. Not "trying to push a townie who just worded something awkwardly". You immediately tried floating that without bothering to look into what actually occurred or my actual thinking on the situation. In fact, you didn't even question me about it, like Titus did. It looks to me like you are intentionally trying to make anything stick, and that's just not town-motivated.

It looks to me like you and Titus are both scum who did a little distancing earlier.

Do you actually believe this nonsense? Are you even bothering to read my ISO?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yes and yes. Are you bothering to read mine? Yesterday someone pointed out I was vote parking. Today you're accusing me of jumping on every bandwagon possible. You're just making shit up.

Did

I

say anything about vote parking...???? wtf...

"well this other person said this other thing, and now you're saying this thing, so together,

you

are making things up."



Are you fucking kidding me Persivul...?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

^Me bothering to read your ISO.

Objectively, your meta is way off dude. Second, if you have actual questions about things I've said, you've never once addressed me asking anything directly. You've only grabbed snippets and thrown out BS comments about them without any real analysis. Most of those are legitimately incorrect and bad points. We can go over them one by one but I don't think you actually give a shit, and it would honestly just irritate me because you're either severely confbiased or you are scum. I don't have the patience to deal with either.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And just for the record, are you arguing that you are vote parking or that you are hopping on bandwagons?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

look. I wanna have fun. that's why I came back. and the fun of mafia for me is solving the puzzle not combating arguments that I think are stupid. if someone is willing to have an actual discussion I'm all for it. otherwise don't fucking bother talking to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And just for the record, are you arguing that you are vote parking or that you are hopping on bandwagons?

Wow, you're really not reading the thread. I've already given my vote record.

yeah. I'm not reading the thread at all. I'm just saying things that have nothing to do with this game whatsoever. /s

just fuck off already. I don't need to convince you of your scumminess.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think Persivul is scum in the neighborhood.

So you read everyone else in the neighborhood as town?

I mean I guess it can't do that much harm?
Its Me, copper223, Persivul, and MagnaofIllusion.

Oh I definitely think Persivul is the scum in the hood, with a small chance of it being Magna instead, but I feel more town from Magna than from Pers. Copper and Liger are good town reads for me at the moment.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I didn't want them to be on guard with me in the hood.

^ Not town thinking.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I didn't want them to be on guard with me in the hood.

^ Not town thinking.

Why not?

Because mafia are concerned about other people being wary of them. Town are actively hunting.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh I definitely think Persivul is the scum in the hood, with a small chance of it being Magna instead, but I feel more town from Magna than from Pers. Copper and Liger are good town reads for me at the moment.

Titus, who's your second choice for scum in the hood?

Persivul.

What? who's your first?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Because mafia are concerned about other people being wary of them. Town are actively hunting.

Hunting is getting information. It's easier to get information from someone who's relaxed than from someone who's on guard.

It's easy to get information both ways. It's not just about getting someone to tell you something directly. Scumhunting is more about reading what's going on around the person than reading the actual words the person is saying. Your focus is only on what a person is saying so you can pick out key out-of-context phrases and push them, and you're worrying about whether they are guarded around you gauging how people are reading you, and you're jumping on every possible idea to get someone lynched. None of these things are town-motivated. They all come from a scum mindset.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What? who's your first?

I am. That's just her way of copping out from answering the question.

Oh is that your professional opinion based on your extensive experience with Titus and her methods and all the games you've played where people behaved the same way?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh is that your professional opinion based on your extensive experience with Titus and her methods and all the games you've played where people behaved the same way?

No, it was just really fucking obvious to anyone who was reading along.

Clearly it's not because that is not at all the intntion I read behind her words, and if you actually DON'T have any evidence to prove that this is something she does and that it's a viable method of playing, why the fuck are you even saying it?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Scum reads, also needs ordering:
copper

Copper .... are good town reads for me

I meant cy in the last one, not copper. Got confused cuz I thought cy was in the hood.

That actually helps me a lot, as I think you and pers are more likely scum than magna.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Please explain because I can’t understand that at all – he’s one of my strongest Townreads.

Egg read is totally gut. I can't place my finger on it but the ISO feels really off. A lot of the "discussion" comes across as forced and LAMISTy, and definitely "peace-maker"-y, which rubs me the wrong way as I don't really see town functioning that way so early on.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Thor will be greatly insulted if he sees this …

Does he not like you? The both of you are very similar in play-style to me. Also I ♥ Thor

[EspeciallyTheLies]

clearly town vs town

@Magna - also stuff like this ^ is so sketch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[quote="In post 1604, Egg"]remind me why you are flirting with a scum read on me.[/quot]
I'm not. I have you as a full scum read.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lol QUOT fail.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Possible scum in the neighborhood should have been obvious to you as Town the minute you got your role PM

Fuckin A exactly. Magna can be town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

LAMISTy

Can you explain this short-hand? I've seen it several times from you and can't parse it to save my life.

Look at me I'm saving Town?

"Look At Me ,I'm So Town" (wiki link to commonly used abbreviations)

Deliberately doing or saying things for the purpose of gaining town cred. Just a faster way of describing that phenomenon.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This page looks more like town for Zakk.

Even though he's still drastically wrong about me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also the associations like that are pretty terrible, because you haven't even bothered working out situations where I'm town. Only trying to find ways to justify me being scum, which is confirmation bias in the truest sense of the term.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The ONLY reason I'm not jumping over to Persivul is because of this stupid deadline hanging around our necks

????????? wut

That's a really stupid reason to not vote for your "top scumread" when there is clearly support for it. We have more than a few days at least. If you truly believe he is scum, fucking do your Titus thing.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This pattern is what scum have been doing all day. They push someone. A couple scum agree. One votes. No townies vote. They change the scumread to a townread. Meanwhile, TBG wagon has consistently had town on it.

Also, no. First of all - what? The first part... you just described literally everyone's voting patterns in the whole damn game. Changing reads and pushing and agreeing or disagreeing. It's not a fucking pattern. Don't be ludicrous.

Second, the TBG wagon has NOT "consistently had town on it" because you don't fucking know who is town and who is not and VCA shouldn't happen until D2 at the earliest. It's a stagnating wagon that has been around all game and you aren't even asking yourself why.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

SirCakez says we have one day after the replacements get in to achieve a lynch.

No, he said 24 hours plus ???

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Because I KNOW why the wagon stalled

You KNOW? How could you KNOW? You BELIEVE. You don't KNOW. If you KNOW then there is evidence you need to show me, not circumstantial theories, and everything at this point is circumstantial.

I have to say that it really bothers me how much you seem to be avoiding voting Persivul despite claiming how much of a scum read he is.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No, he said 24 hours plus ???

Copper... what the fuck comment are you even making here? How is this game relevant in any way whatsoever?

Do something or get lynched.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Deadline will be frozen at 1 day until the spots are filled. After both spots are filled I'll give an extension of undetermined length.

Yeah, this pretty much tells me that there's one day after the replacements are here. Anything else is mod mercy, and I'm not depending on time not promised to me. That's my problem.

He said he WILL give an extension. That seems like we'll have at least 48 hours once replacements are filled.

Your problem is weird and you're acting weird and I don't like it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Copper... what the fuck comment are you even making here? How is this game relevant in any way whatsoever?

Do something or get lynched.

Stop making retarded posts and being rude motherfucker.

I'm being rude yet you are calling my posts retarded?

You. Are doing. Fucking. Nothing.

Grow the fuck up. I'm not here to be your best friend. I'm here to catch scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

the MOMENT any of scumreads have the largest wagon, I'll be voting them

??? Since when do you wait for that to happen...?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I know that because I've actually been here and you haven't. I've been telling stating this for awhile. I observe the fucking patterns here.

Just because I went V/LA for a few days doesn't mean I didn't read the thread when I got back.... Are you saying that I'm incapable of determining patterns in the game? This is such a sideways discredit, it's really gross, Titus.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

the MOMENT any of scumreads have the largest wagon, I'll be voting them

??? Since when do you wait for that to happen...?

When the other wagon is also my scumread.

OK.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"my kind"

I don't know who you think you are, but grabbing a post about the deadline in a conversation you aren't part of isn't "commenting" on anyone's play.

You are in no position to judge the quality of my play when I've never even seen you anywhere before.

Play the game. Ignore me if your feelings are so hurt. I haven't insulted you or anyone, so seriously, grow the fuck up and stop whining.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You've said you didn't bother to read it.

I never said that Titus... I read all 30+ pages of content that accumulated while I was gone.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think you're right on your reads on Zakk and Persivul.

I am changing my mind about zakk. I dislike his personality but I think he's town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You've said you didn't bother to read it.

I never said that Titus... I read all 30+ pages of content that accumulated while I was gone.

That's what I thought you said that you didn't. If you had, that's MY mistake on misreading that. I've been supposing you hadn't and jumped right in after arriving.

I skipped pages 52-54 before I posted when I returned but I went back and read them the next day after I got some sleep.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

yes but if I'm wrong about pers suddenly that difinitively makes me scum which is wrong and ridiculous to me. it sets up for a mislynch we may not be able to afford.

why do you feel lynching outside the hood is better?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

^ that was in response to Zakk. didn't get any pedits on mobile

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Seth
Alternatively you can tell me which one, if any, of {Robert [Persivul], I am Innocent [liger], Magma} is also scum.

This makes me think I might be wrong on copper. Pers is almost certainly the scum in the group if any exist.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Floating, disconnected Killthestory is scum killthestory. Posts like 380 are symptoms of that particular malady that we can cure with rope.

Magna

do you still think this applies? What are your current feelings about KTS?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also, Egg - I don't particularly find the peacemaker routine a town-thing generally.

1. Do you find it a scum tell?

I do, especially this early on in the game. Town sometimes try to get people to gel together more as their reads solidify and become more certain. But so early in the day, in a

large game

, wrt to players he's given no read on, it's pretty spectacularly suspicious to me to try to "calm to ocean" so to speak.

Additionally, and really more to the point, I've seen scum try to play peacemaker in order to appear as though they are "acting in the best interest of town". I've done it myself. It's rarely ever been a town thing this early on.

2. Do you think Egg’s ISO is anything but Town trying to find scum?

I have answered this since it was asked, but obviously I do think he is scum trying not to make waves.

(Sorry if late replies on this stuff - I'm going through ISOs as I have time. On Magna currently.)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

One of the reasons I really think Liger is town, beyond their other posting, is the neighborhood reveal.

First of all, if Liger were scum, they probably would have been informed by their team mates if there were other neighborhoods in existence. Instead he acted as though everyone had one. This was an assumption made with no other information available, because if he'd had additional information, he probably wouldn't have gone about it the way he did.

Second, I think a mafia neighbor would be more likely to try to gain towncred by "keeping the town's interest" in not revealing the information. The fact that the PT is only open at night mitigates this somewhat, but not by a lot, in that there has not been an opportunity for any possible scum to show this. However, since the members knew who the others were, a combined ISO of all 4 may be beneficial to see if there were any hints at this kind of thing to the others. In any case, the fact remains that his immediate open revelation about it means the scenario doesn't exist in Liger's case.

There was a third but I got distracted by work and I lost my train of thought. I'll come back to this later.

I basically want to look at the neighborhood really closely because it

does

give me a sense of direction in such a large game and I do think it's a good place to start. Of course there's the possibility that all 4 are town, and I fully acknowledge that, but I believes it's more likely there's at least one mafia in there.

@magna - If there's multiple teams, then perhaps the idea of more than 1 anti-town member of the hood is possible but I think that's more of an outside theory at this point, since we don't have any indication one way or the other, but even that scenario means there is

at least

one

anti-town in the hood. considering the existence of at least one is reasonable at the moment and something we can work on deducing.

EBWOP: to clarify - i only got through about 4 people in pre-game rsearch before i got bored, and shotty's tell was the most solid, so i ISO'd him to see if it was here, and it is.

Who else did you meta research?

Have you ever done this as Town before?

I gave my notes earlier, but as for doing this as town before and showing it in-game, the only one that I know of for sure happened was as CatBug, a hydra of me and Sthar8. (It might also have been the hydra with his brother but I'm 90% sure it was catbug). They gave me shit for it there too.

And honestly, rereading your ISO kind of makes me mad about the whole "Titus coaching Ircher" thing because first of all, it absolutely read as coaching, and absolutely coaching happens in games where scum do not have daytalk. My thinking on it went like this: "Why is she telling him what to do? Do they have some kind of outside connection? If they are scum together, it could be coaching, which means scum probably don't have daytalk." I voiced my opinions, mentioned that it depended on the existence or lack of daytalk, and also that it changed my read on Ircher if Titus was scum. So I voted Titus and people went all "BLEEEEH WHY YOU VOTE TITUS AND NOT IRCHER" which still makes no fucking sense to me since ircher's alignment in that scenario depended on Titus being scum which would give credence to the coaching issue in the first place. I do not understand why anyone had such a hard time following that line of thinking. Whether a person agrees or not is one thing but to be all "that means you're scum because I disagree with your conclusions" that's so dumb to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yes. I do. And I’m so damn tired of people giving him and his herp a derp posting a pass for “tone”.

I'm not giving him a pass. I think the "tone" thing is irrelevant to alignment. My issue is that his entire ISO tells me almost nothing and I kind of don't like it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Zakk - what are you trying to explain with the activity overview? What are your conclusions?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i.e. - what was the point of posting that?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Your serious contention is that scum-partners in a Large game decided that the best course of action Day 1 is to immediately come into the thread and hard distance with frankly stupid conten

OO. OO. this actually happened, but it worked in that case. it was jake from state farm (iirc) and ... fuck now I cant remember his name. something with a d. anyway, it was AP's house party micro with majiffy and i was in it too and maybe titus was in it. but anyway the thing that happened was jake and this other person were at each other's throats from the get-go. and they won because everyone was all dumb "hurr it's tvt it's tvt" and they ended up being buddies.