New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[zakk]

VOTE: Ircher

why?

Its RVS.

Why are you already defending him?

VOTE: Ircher

[zakk]

Lol.

can you pls provide at least 4 reasons why ircher is town


p-edit: welp i wonder if thats real

[zakk]

@Ircher
Nice, I can already tell you are more sure of yourself compared to when we played the first time.

@dr
Increased likelyhood of getting a read compared to another random, but since Ircher's been playing a lot that's not necessarily true anymore.

And the cooper ircher buddying continues!
VOTE: ircher
I'm almost sure of this now.

What happen to general chat?

But, if you find that scummy then:

VOTE: Shotty
For being opportunistic in play and deciding that general chit-chat is scum-indicative when it clearly isnt.

you can't vote you're dead.

[zakk]

@Ircher
Nice, I can already tell you are more sure of yourself compared to when we played the first time.

@dr
Increased likelyhood of getting a read compared to another random, but since Ircher's been playing a lot that's not necessarily true anymore.

And the cooper ircher buddying continues!
VOTE: ircher
I'm almost sure of this now.

What happen to general chat?

But, if you find that scummy then:

VOTE: Shotty
For being opportunistic in play and deciding that general chit-chat is scum-indicative when it clearly isnt.

you can't vote you're dead.

I'm not dead.

Spoiler: nonsense you'll be stone dead in a moment

[zakk]

3 days

how do you do that fancy shit

[zakk]

Only 5/21 players have posted so far and we're already on page 3, almost page 4...

Unvote

I'll be back when there's something worth reading...

[zakk]

Laugh all you want, if he flips scum you're next.

Kill: Ircher

If you caught Ircher scum on page 1 I'll be happy to go next.

VOTE: Cooper

Hi Titus

What's this then? RVS or real?

[zakk]

Oh didn't see that yet

Well at least RVS is over

[zakk]

Thank you very much for that recap

[zakk]

there's a difference between spam and content

[zakk]

PEDIT: I guess its pick on Orcher day........

scumplaining

vote: ircher

peeeeerfect example/comparison for this, which i will talk about literally as soon as i can

[zakk]

that's fine. i'm fine with that.

1. the fact you keep bringing up how often you've been scum. its a complete fallacy
2. the "pick on ircher day" comment sounds veeeery close to what i've seen scum say before
3. this wagon is the best wagon, and i am a wagoner. love wagons. love em.
4. wagons are there for analysis. and reaction testing. and also lynching scum, but don't forget the other two
5. if you're not scum, that'll show itself before 7 more people vote you, so i'm fine w/this wagon
6. i like lists.




not buying titus' copper stuff btw



p-edit: LOL at killthestory

[zakk]

If that happens, remember when I flip town that Shotty and Egg were the two huge activists for the lynch.

Feels like a poor attempt at distancing to me

@Zakk
Why do you feel Titus's logic for voting Copper is invalid? It is true he's still voting me despite showing a strong belief I'm town.

tbqh so am i

Like Titus said (a little less politely), stop focusing on your wagon and focus on other things, and so will other people. You're making it really hard to use your wagon as flypaper for scum who come into the thread and vote you without reading anything else.

[zakk]

I don't feel like Titus copper case is invalid, mayhaps I should've just said I'm not interested in it right now

JUICIER juiciness is afoot.

[zakk]

You?

[zakk]

holy thread explosion batman

[zakk]

not buying titus' copper stuff btw

but I do
VOTE: Copper

eh

Sup.

Titus and Icher are town.

I'm going to ignore the arguments that have already taken place and vote for the actual mafia.

Vote: TehBrawlGuy

The whole statistics discussion is stupid and doesn't read natural. Feels like a poor attempt at distancing to me, as does Ircher's "go vote shotty". VOTE: Ircher

Copper case has no real merit imo. Copper had no reason to unvote/vote anyone else, but also no reason to actually believe Ircher was more likely to be scum than anyone else at the time.

Primarily because in this post, he is setting himself up to vote for both Shotty/Ircher as opposed to taking one side. It looks like he's trying really hard to agree with both players at the same time.

Also, I want to see him under pressure.

I like your style. I think you're town.

[zakk]

lol whoa i just realized there were people in the OP and that isnt just an abstract picture. lol

ok cool shit. heres my reads as they are

Persivul

- seems very town. like the magna push. (this is why i should have lynched you in evo, you weren't super obvtown there, and you seem to be here.)

Ircher

- seems very town (newbtown that's looking for ways to prove his worth, and not (newb)scum looking for ways to look town). post 25 doesn't come from newbscum. post 40 doesn't come from newbscum.

Egg

- seems pretty town (and very similar to a game i just finished with him where he was town)

projectmatt

- seems town. i like how he posts and what he posts about.

TehBrawlGuy

- seems town. i like that he likes my posts. don't see what other people call him scummy for.

drmyshottyizsik

- seems annoying and narcissistic mostly. doesn't seem particularly town or scum. would lynch, regardless. i keep seeing DGB, zito, and reck, with every post he makes. #51 is an odd post to make as scum (from 2010) though.

MagnaofIllusion

- doesn't seem particularly town or scum. seems like an old fogey like jazzmyn. (and lol. chill. no i haven't played with shitty that i can recall. and i think i'd recall.) i don't really see scum making a post like 50.

Titus

- doesn't seem particularly town or scum. seems too indignant about copper-scum. idk what i have to do with that argument though i saw my name dropped about 20 times with regards to copper. titus do you usually tunnel?

heuristically_alone

- can never really accurately read this guy due to posting style. have played with him as both alignments that i can recall, can't really (be assed to try to) tell a difference in posting.

Nosferatu

-

alban

-

I Am Innocent

-

copper223

- titus brought up stuff. i went back and looked. i can kinda see it. looks like confbias though, and i'm not really into the copper wagon it looks forced. i have no real opinion on the slot

SethYazura

-

Killthestory

- funny, but annoying. no idea on alignment. wouldn't mind lynching in the first 2-3 days or so if he keeps being like he's being.

cytheflyguy

-

Aneninen

-

Desmond_13

-

Lowell

-

EspeciallyTheLies

- saw the posts. liked the posts. don't remember much about the posts. feels pretty townie

haven't caught up fully. skimmed most of the thread after p6. some things stuck out and are added in above. some things didn't. if anyone's blank that means i have like 0 read on them yet. ask me questions if you have questions. if i have an answer i'll post it if i can but i might not have much time over the next few days due to RL stuff

@mod/peeps: i'm gonna be gone most of this weekend

try not to make the thread 50 pages before sunday evening lol

[zakk]

my read on ircher is newbtown regardless of the number of games he's completed. he just acts like it. lol

lowell i didn't really pay attention to. brief iso reveals he said magna was scum and then waited 3 posts to vote him (was this after persy voted him? didnt check).
also he voted tehbrawlguy who seems town to me. a look at his join date says he's an old fogey like magna and/or they have some long standing pissing contest (not unlikely from the looks of both their forum personalities tbh)

persivul i have more of a reason to pay attention to because he fucked town uppppp in evo mafia recently. i was town. i was embarrassed af. (it was much, *much* worse than KI mafia)

seth struck me as odd on a post but i didn't figure out which one on a re-skim bc i didnt get that far (didn't iso him). 1 sec

[zakk]

VOTE: magna

VOTE: magna

We're through the looking glass, here, people.

lowell waited until someone else voted magna to vote him, even though he called him scum earlier.

scum points lowell.

[zakk]

re seth:

VOTE: Cooper
RVS is fair and just, because we will laugh hard if you flip scum.

ESL? shrug

If I am scum that would be a serious problem, accidentaly lynching your own teammates or the sk, effectively reducing the kills per night in a large game will lead to your demise

it was this post that caught my eye. no idea what he's talking about.

sounds like somebody from asia who can't speak english well but seems psyched as fuck to be playing mafia with americans.

UNVOTE: Copper223
Don't take it seriously Copper, I'm not like those idiots that chase at you with ropes for hanging just because you're Copper.
This is getting too stupid, why can't we just get along, the adventure haven't started yet and we are already quarreling and sending death threats just because, all that preparations for nothing.

VOTE: SirCakez
An adventure is all games and fun until the party leader stops it mid-way, hands us a rope, and literally asks us to hang each other.

I can't make my play based on what I honestly think, especially in a large game, you can say that "A" must be hanged because of "B" but the majority factor that influences the Day 1 lynching is luck, scumreads may not work all the time as everyone has different playstyles and personalities which makes it impossible to be always right with a scumread, the only thing we can do right now is to maximize that chances of flipping scum, I'm not confident yet in my reads to do that, it's all up to you my fellow town on this day and I will post my thoughts sometimes.

you're losing me homie.

For real though, explain 174, because I actually can't parse that into anything I understand.

Copper said I will laugh hard as scum if I flip scum in my lynch, which is a contradiction, since lynching sk as a mafia goon early in this game is serious trouble as there will be less kills per night, giving the Town more time to correctly lynch the mafia.

i highly doubt this is scum on first blush but i have to actually pay attention which i can't do right now i'm leaving in a few min and i gotta do shit.

[zakk]

i keep seeing DGB, zito, and reck, with every post he makes.

this is the biggest compliment I have ever got, I'm literally in tears

shut the fuck up shitty

[zakk]

LOL freudian autocorrect

[zakk]

@Zakk
Why do you feel Titus's logic for voting Copper is invalid? It is true he's still voting me despite showing a strong belief I'm town.

tbqh so am i

Like Titus said (a little less politely), stop focusing on your wagon and focus on other things, and so will other people.

You're making it really hard to use your wagon as flypaper for scum who come into the thread and vote you without reading anything else.

I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now

VOTE: Ircher

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHHA

Vote: cytheflyguy

his username even tells me he's the fly I wanted to catch

THIS IS TOO PERFECT I'M DYING

[zakk]

how is cy the top wagon with only 2 posts?

have you read the posts?

[zakk]

Dammit Titus !!

[zakk]

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

You're shutting up because you want some other player not to copy you? What are you, FOUR?

This looks like an excuse to lurk tbh

[zakk]

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

This is scum trying to write off their read as "j-just rvs".

Like, you went into quite a lot of detail about how it made him scum earlier. I have a hard time believing it was not a serious push.

Are you scum yourself or did you just decide to tunnel me this game? Cause I never said nor implied that my read on Nos was RVS or not serious in any way and I'd like to see what made you think that's what I said.

What I did say is that with the amount of data available any read you give me at this point in the game I can show to be complete crap by changing the assumptions (and there will be quite a few) on which it is built, my read on Nos relied on IIOA being a scumtell for her when she posted what she posted.

In other news I am liking Titus less and less, Mollie told me she is a tunneler so going off on me didn't raise any serious bells, but dropping me like a stone while still keeping a scumread

and

openly discussing her town meta about being a tunneler feels unnatural for the former and makes me wonder how calculated her initial tunnel was for the latter.

I am a tunneller. You're still scum. I'll openly discuss who I am any day this week and twice on Sunday. Nice try there though scum.

This response feels fabricated

[zakk]

Ircher, kindly shut the fuck up. The more your case gets talked about, the more credence it appears to have although it's total garbage RVS. You know it. I know it. If you actually did the slightest thing scummy, I'd be all over it. You just haven't.

You realize how Copper has displayed

actual inconsistencies

and people are pushing awkard things you are saying because they don't like math. Get real.

Ok, Cythe, was gonna give benefit of the doubt, but your last posts changed my mind.

VOTE: Cythe

How come every time I change my vote, you follow me? I don't wanna be a double voter? Stahp it.

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

This reeks of coaching. I take it scum don't have daytalk, eh?

VOTE: Titus

Sorry, friend. You gots ta go.

I like this post.

Highly doubt it says anything about ircher, but it is a real big tell on Titus

Also didn't like how fast she abandoned copper (who she calls scum, to his face) to jump on my cytheflyguy wagon

And now I have more meta on Titus

[zakk]

Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

You honestly think ircher is scum? Totally disagree

You honestly think scum Titus would stick her neck out in public like that for a newb scumbuddy instead of crucifying him and riding it for town cred? Totally disagree

[zakk]

Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

He imo simply seems more annoyed with me rather than scumreading me, but I may be wrong.

God, can you not actually fucking listen? I can handle myself. Go fucking scumhunt. Not this numbers shit. Scum hunt. I don't want you so far up my ass. It's creepy as shit.

Laughing so hard at this sorry

[zakk]

First quote was not supposed to be there. Fkn mobile lol

[zakk]

I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now

VOTE: Ircher

Your laziness has earned you scum points according to my scum points book

Read his two posts.

how is cy the top wagon with only 2 posts?

have you read the posts?

Both Titus and Zakk replied the same thing. I know this should be a null read, but I'm gut reading both Titus and Zakk as town for the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cytheflyguy

and VOTE: cytheflyguy

1. you have your own reasons for voting him, but you try to make it funny too
2. you base your actual vote on the fact that titus and i agree about him
3. you forget you voted him, and vote him again? apparently you didn't really believe in your vote when you did it.

bonus: you made some comment to me about that you like being hard to read, which seemed jokey-scummy in sort of a "ha ha let's laugh at this together even though i'm giving the obvious scum answer ha ha ha look how funny everyone"

vote: heuristically_alone

the cy wagon has gotten stale of late, it's a bunch of me-toos, and a cy flip will tell us too little

the ircher wagon is the definition of a lazy wagon on probtown, buuuut it will tell us a lot based on flip, so i will abide it, HOWEVER

hey other people:

come join me on heur, we have cookies. this is the real juiciness of the day right hurr

[zakk]

heur only has 4 more posts than cy. If you don't like the cy wagon because the flip wouldn't tell us much, why do you want a heur wagon?

i'm guessing this is rhetorical

[zakk]

the cy wagon has gotten stale of late, it's a bunch of me-toos, and a cy flip will tell us too little

So your whole "Caught scum with my epic trap" play on Cy was what exactly again?

see who jumps on, see how cy acts, see how much steam it gets, see what happens

currently dissatisfied with that prospect, and pushing another direction

what are your thoughts about that?

[zakk]

i refuse to play unless I'm flatbread

you already are.

flatbread = pita
P.I.T.A = pain in the ass

quod erat demonstrandum

[zakk]

see who jumps on, see how cy acts, see how much steam it gets, see what happens

currently dissatisfied with that prospect, and pushing another direction

what are your thoughts about that?

I think you are jumpier than a jackrabbit on meth. I'd have to ISO you but I'd guess you've had your vote on at least 5 different people. Which is at this stage a big fat null.

Now once we get some alignment flips and I can parse how you jumped regarding Town and scum ... a different bag of donuts.

Hey since you missed it - have you ever been exposed to someone fake-daykilling before?

okay

and i have no idea. maybe.

why are you asking me useless questions? what do you hope to discover?

heur only has 4 more posts than cy. If you don't like the cy wagon because the flip wouldn't tell us much, why do you want a heur wagon?

i'm guessing this is rhetorical

why the hell would this be a rhetorical question?

it's very clearly explained why i was voting cytheflyguy
it's very clearly explained why i am voting heur

my posts explain everything persivul asked, and i don't know persivul to be lazy. do you?

i refuse to play unless I'm flatbread

you already are.

flatbread = pita
P.I.T.A = pain in the ass

quod erat demonstrandum

beautiful

But I meant to say townread.

fuck.

i thought i was so clever.

[zakk]

@mod: V/LA until Wednesday at least; sorry something came up which I cannot control.

[zakk]

i'm back


titus are you sure persivul isn't a scum lean just because he's voting you?
you seem pretty omgus-y this game, unlike what i would expect from you


not a fan of the ircher wagon at all.

not a fan of the TBG wagon at all.


ETL vs titus felt kind of contrived. they both come out looking worse to me
i don't like the nitpicky-ness, it seemed far too nitpicky on both their parts

all this battle-of-the-ego stuff is very meh, to me


titus + ircher is null
titus > copper is bad


titus is just appearing everywhere now isn't she



that's probably a towntell.

wagon on her is curious. i highly doubt titus does this as town.

[zakk]

*i highly doubt titus does this as scum.

[zakk]

the TBG wagon is stupid because TBG seems very town. i like that he townreads me and agrees with me, and though that's confirmation bias on my part, it's clearly correct to me. and therefore, i have no small amount of disdain for the wagon.

i highly doubt he'd suck up to me for no reason.

[zakk]

checking to see whos townreading me

my read on you is "less flatbread than previously"

[zakk]

see who jumps on, see how cy acts, see how much steam it gets, see what happens

currently dissatisfied with that prospect, and pushing another direction

what are your thoughts about that?

I think you are jumpier than a jackrabbit on meth. I'd have to ISO you but I'd guess you've had your vote on at least 5 different people. Which is at this stage a big fat null.

Now once we get some alignment flips and I can parse how you jumped regarding Town and scum ... a different bag of donuts.

Hey since you missed it - have you ever been exposed to someone fake-daykilling before?

okay

and i have no idea. maybe.

why are you asking me useless questions? what do you hope to discover?

you demand i answer your questions but you neglect to answer mine

so answer those and here are some more.

why are you talking to me about how you are going to be able to read me later? does it look like i care? you should be happy that you'll have more to read, but it looks like you're trying to make me feel guilty for being a "jackrabbit on meth"

you think me pushing the ircher wagon even though he thought i was town is a null tell? really?
what did you learn from that, about him, and about me? anything?

what is your opinion on pursival? on titus? on ETL? what do you think about the relationships between them?

do you think copper or ircher is scum? if so, why? if not, why not?

[zakk]

the TBG wagon is stupid because TBG seems very town. i like that he townreads me and agrees with me, and though that's confirmation bias on my part, it's clearly correct to me. and therefore, i have no small amount of disdain for the wagon.

i highly doubt he'd suck up to me for no reason.

And if your reads are wrong?

Scum love sucking up to townies with the wrong reads or are in danger (the latter does not apply to you). I call the players sucked up to townbeards.

i'm fine if he's scum sucking up to me

i don't think he's scummy though, i agree with much of what he says, even whta's not about me. very much of it, actually.

[zakk]

killthestory, what do you think of ircher?

would you push an ETL wagon with me?

[zakk]

Zakk, what specifically do you agree with TBG on? Your last posts don't seem to indicate agreement with him, so I am confused.

i find myself nodding at all of his posts, so that means i agree with him

i'm not keeping track of whether or not i'm aligned with him on all issues but he makes sense and it seems real.

id totally push an ETL wagon

do it then.

[zakk]

-quote snip-

Last readwall from TBG.

sure lets go over that, this should be interesting

ETL is town. You want to wagon ETL.

i don't really want to wagon ETL. i don't have either the conviction nor the weight to make anything useful happen there. i wanted to see what killthestory would say, and how he'd act with regards to follow up questioning, and i have not been impressed with his complete lack of conviction and complete unwillingness to play the game. that's scummy to me, but he kind of did the same thing in Mafia Z where he was town so maybe factor that in. personally, i have no read on him, and i don't foresee that changing much one way or the other, despite my efforts, so in all honesty, i wouldn't at all mind seeing him lynched in the first couple of days. with that said i think we can do better.

Ircher is scum. You don't like that wagon.

true. but i can see why he thinks that.

He said his thought processes match yours in this post, but that clearly isn't true now.

thought processes ≠ conclusions. i can see why he thinks what he thinks, and apparently that matches me. and apparently neither of us feel like it's faked on the other's part. there's something oddly self-reinforcing about it, which i'm keeping an eye on, but i don't think it's a big deal at the moment. it doesn't feel like weasely early-game rapport-building, it feels like genuine recognition.

He has a scumread on me. You're hard townreading me.

i am actually not hard townreading you. i am slightly scum reading you. but that is influenced by factors outside of your immediate control (i.e. i haven't seen you play much as town, and you've tricked the pants off me when you were scum before – you and toolenduso, that one game. ugh)

So, where specifically are you agreeing with TBG lately?

it's more of a good early feeling i got from him, and i felt really iffy at everyone who jumped on his wagon.

Why ETL over TBG? I know ETL is a nonsensical poster, but I am much less certain on her bring scum.

ETL isn't really nonsensical to me. i don't particularly like her posting though. she seems to be playing up the "look how scary and obstinate and bitchy i am/can be" angle quite a bit, kind of like she's faking the self-destructive social interaction patterns of sociopaths like fate and drmyshotty, where they realize people are reading them a certain way, and they can't stop being that way because on some level it's compulsive (you may have seen a bit of this from me in sac last weekend, when i was nailed as scum). it's just something you get used to doing, it's your comfort spot. but it's kind of easy to tell when it's exaggerated. but whether it's exaggerated due to her trying to appear town, or not appear scum, is the question.

let me know if that doesn't make sense.


so yes revisiting this:

zakk - lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent

our conclusions may have been more in line before, but i generally have a town read on him for the way he posts his posts, how i see him reaching his conclusions even if i don't agree with him, and i don't like his wagon, so that's 3 things.

[zakk]

Massive post coming tomorrow. I promise!

if this hasn't happened already: please don't.

[zakk]

Could see Copper as scum, tries not to combat anyone, instead chooses to want to gain their support and is running for towncred really hard. Buddies up a lot with TBG a lot too

Brawl defends Copper as well, very notable, pushes BOTH Ircher and Shotty when their whole argument thing read like TvT, not SvS. Reads Titus as scum, wrong, reads Cy as scum, got newbtown vibes from them, otherwise reads are pretty ass. Could see as scum, too

This sounds like something scum would say.

I can see that.

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ME SAYING I DONT CARE IF SETTING A TONE FOR MYSELF, A META, FOLLOWING IT, IT'S A GAME, OF COURSE I CARE, BUT I'M PLAYING THE WAY IM SUPPOSED TO WITH DECEPTION.

Projecting insecurity "but my meta is supposed to be unreadable!!" when ETL isn't even calling him scum.

ETL's insistence of arguing with me over the fundamentals of a game instead of just pushing my lynch indicates town mindset instead of scum

More WIFOM townreads,

titus is the only one announcing me as a townread so i have to blindly follow her to victory unless someone else townreads me

Pushing the joke too far, this wasn't even the original thing. Hiding behind what he thinks is his unreadability.

This feels town.

I think TehBrawlGuy is town, and I don't want him lynched.

I agree with this.

Expedience town points

[zakk]

Oh yuk zakk, I start town reading you for being your own person and you get all conciliatory with Titus.

nah. i'm just bored at work and in the mood to explain shit i think, because i'm having a better day than i have had in a while due to some hard RL shit being cleared up.

stay tuned for more sexiness.

[zakk]

actually, reading this again:

killthestory, -snip-
would you push an ETL wagon with me?

id totally push an ETL wagon

do it then.

VOTE: etl

I want to wait before switching to ETL if at all. As much as I would feel ETL's behavior is justified as scum, I am much more confident in TBG scum. Go back there please.

k

VOTE: TBG

this is pretty bad.

and why is titus buttering up killthestory, who clearly is playing the tantrum-y child?

this feels wrong.

what complicates it is that titus and etl are rocky relationally, and then add this in.

makes me feel like possible titus/ETL scum, and kts just a VI

[zakk]

also cytheflyguy was never really that scummy i was cringing super hard when everyone started wagoning him

who were you cringing at specifically?

for science.

[zakk]

In post 659, SethYazura wrote:
You can easily single out newbies from an experienced and everyone can do it.
An experienced knows the concequences of posting in the same way as cytheflyguy, cy posted like that because he doesn't.

And. That. Is. Not. An. Alignment. Tell.

I've noticed that town are more likely to point out things that are not really alignment tells. Scum would want other player coming up with tells and voting others.

Town points for Aneninen

Dont be fooled by content. Anen really knows how to fluff like in Newbie 1682.

Anen can also let Anen get super lost like in Micro 600: Mechanics Upick

more towniness from ircher: this doesn't feel like a smear attempt, just a cautioning from people thinking the wrong thing, with useful examples. this is especially useful to people like me who haven't played with anen-scum before.

[zakk]

also cytheflyguy was never really that scummy i was cringing super hard when everyone started wagoning him

who were you cringing at specifically?

for science.

the part where people voted him and said his posts were scummy

not what,

who.

[zakk]

Make it for me? *bats eyelashes* Mine will be done in a few and we can post at the same time ish.

this post also feels really icky w.r.t. the Kts thing i mentioned a few posts ago.

anyone with meta on titus, is this normal behavior from her?

[zakk]

not a fan of the ircher wagon at all.

not a fan of the TBG wagon at all.

not a fan of you

i'm gonna need some ice for this sick burn


also i

am

a fan of you this game, even if it's not reciprocated.

[zakk]

the TBG wagon is stupid because TBG seems very town. i like that he townreads me and agrees with me, and though that's confirmation bias on my part, it's clearly correct to me. and therefore, i have no small amount of disdain for the wagon.

i highly doubt he'd suck up to me for no reason.

Is this the only reason why you're townreading TBG?

see recent posts to titus re: tbg. thx

[zakk]

I think TehBrawlGuy is town because he sounds like he believes what he says, even if it might not make that much sense. Especially posts like 804 and 812.

you've rudimentarily cracked the code of how i feel about TBG here

[zakk]

I very much want to see Zakk’s response to 889 because that post was very, very informative.

what a coincidence i just finished posting it a bit ago

you demand i answer your questions but you neglect to answer mine

so answer those and here are some more.

why are you talking to me about how you are going to be able to read me later?

[b/]

does it look like i care? you should be happy that you'll have more to read, but it looks like you're trying to make me feel guilty for being a "jackrabbit on meth"

you think me pushing the ircher wagon even though he thought i was town is a null tell? really?
what did you learn from that, about him, and about me? anything?

what is your opinion on pursival? on titus? on ETL? what do you think about the relationships between them?

do you think copper or ircher is scum? if so, why? if not, why not?

Suspect that you suggest I didn’t answer your question when you then directly reference my response to your question (which I bolded for ease of reference).

If you are Town you should care if you are Town read. That’s how you prevent being mislynched and help to narrow down the pool of people who are scum. I shouldn’t have to explain this to you. This post actually reads as pretty over-wrought and not genuine. Has all the flavor of “Mock Outrage with a Side of Fate-Lite”.

I’ve already stated my opinion on ETL in thread. Scummy.
I’ve states several times I think Ircher is Town.
Copper is Leaning Scum. Very much dislike his more or less sole focus on low hanging fruit.
Pers is Solid Null at this point. He’s frankly focusing on too few players to get a good handle on him.

What are your reads on Pers, Kill and ETL?

no, as town, i care about not being lynched. it happens a lot anyway, but being read as town doesn't really help me do anything but be a more attractive NK target. being scumread doesn't bother me in the least. what feels weird to me is that you seem very mastin-like in speaking through your thought processes (i.e. very self-metagame) and that means you could easily be trying to manipulate how others perceive what you say because you're very worried about how you say it. it's like you're setting me up to expect that you're going to say you scum read me, before you say you scum read me. which is scummy.

and you coaching me with "you should care if you are town read, that's how you prevent being mislynched and help narrow down the pool of people who are scum" sounds like you're a dinosaur. i've been here since 2013, i know basic theory.

actually i just checked. 7 out of my last 10 town games i was mislynched - that's a lot higher than i thought. maybe i should care more about appearing town. LOL.

did you read my past games or was that just a guess based on my posting style?


i like your answers about alignments actually. and to answer yours:

pers i have as town.
KTS i have as scummy.
ETL i have as scummy too. are you DTW?

[zakk]

@Zakk - I'm quoting parts of 955. I'd quote the entire wall, but it would get distracting and cumbersome.

i don't really want to wagon ETL. i don't have either the conviction nor the weight to make anything useful happen there. i wanted to see what killthestory would say, and how he'd act with regards to follow up questioning, and i have not been impressed with his complete lack of conviction and complete unwillingness to play the game. that's scummy to me, but he kind of did the same thing in Mafia Z where he was town so maybe factor that in. personally, i have no read on him, and i don't foresee that changing much one way or the other, despite my efforts, so in all honesty, i wouldn't at all mind seeing him lynched in the first couple of days. with that said i think we can do better.

Umm pardon me. You have neither the conviction nor weight to pull an ETL wagon? That's bullshit. Posts 883 and 886 say otherwise. You asked specifically for KTS to join you and that you wanted an ETL wagon. Now you're claiming you don't want one. Yeah, that ain't true.

thought processes ≠ conclusions. i can see why he thinks what he thinks, and apparently that matches me. and apparently neither of us feel like it's faked on the other's part. there's something oddly self-reinforcing about it, which i'm keeping an eye on, but i don't think it's a big deal at the moment. it doesn't feel like weasely early-game rapport-building, it feels like genuine recognition.

If you really had the same thought processes, you'd be reaching the same conclusions unless you just weighted things differently. Here, you're reaching opposite conclusions. I'm not seeing any point where you nod in agreement or even push the same lynches. The whole "I agree with TBG" when you cannot point to anything specific you agree with him off is just absurd.

Then, lastly you grant Experience "town points" solely for agreeing with you that TBG is town. Yet, Experience didn't state any reasons for agreeing with you on this read.

Oh I forgot, you claim ETL and I are buddies in 968, yet you

don't

want to wagon ETL in 955.

Which is it? Do you want an ETL wagon or not?

you ninja'd me, but yeah the more i think about it the more i want an ETL wagon. which is why i just asked magna if he was

DTF

errr DTW. i'm personally not inclined to go toe to toe with ETL because that'd be exhausting and distracting and i don't think it would help much especially if she's town and i'm just misreading her (first game with her) but i'm gauging support for a wagon and kinda poking people to look at her with some critical thought rather than just "hey look a loud wallposter who has anger issues" which will turn me off from scumhunting people usually, mostly because it's exhausting engaging with them

re: TBG, see my response to expedience. if that's not enough, then: GUT!

[zakk]

re: shotty suspecting me: no surprise there. how about you read past RVS though, you'll see i'm town pretty easily.

I agree that there's some suspicious stuff there, and particularly early. Plus, he has a different tone from our last game in which he was town. He's more measured in this game. But reviewing his ISO overall, I think it looks town. He's looking at different people, and generally the correct people. When challenged, he explains, but doesn't get defensive.

thanks for your vote of confidence. last game i was detached, busy, and didn't care too much about shit. this game i do.

[zakk]

ok i made it to page 33 and now im lazy

VOTE: Ircher

that's already been done

I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now

VOTE: Ircher

or were you specifically looking for me to point this out? in which case, hi there. when you're ready to post content i'm excited to hear what you think about these four slots in particular:

Titus
EspeciallyTheLies
Lowell
MagnaofIllusion

[zakk]

So basically, you are now claiming you want an ETL wagon, but she's hard to lynch so you'd rather vote elsewhere? So you're shopping an ETL wagon?

YES! this is exactly it. are you down?

[zakk]

also cytheflyguy was never really that scummy i was cringing super hard when everyone started wagoning him

who were you cringing at specifically?

for science.

the part where people voted him and said his posts were scummy

not what,

who.

the people who voted him and said his posts were scummy

i hate you


also, now that i just realized we already had this conversation: i hate you even more

[zakk]

33 pages and I didn't make an impression...

who are you again?

Nice...

what's the history here?


p-edit: ooooo why, specifically on ETL and Magna?

[zakk]

I do believe you lynch shopping ETL is genuine, but I believe it is a genuine attempt to derail from TBG.

It

is

that too

[zakk]

I do believe you lynch shopping ETL is genuine, but I believe it is a genuine attempt to derail from TBG.

It

is

that too

Yes. The timing as much gave that away. Now, why would you pick ETL as opposed to Copper, Shotty, or Persivul? Keep in mind that directly shopping a particular wagon without voting it, doesn't exactly ring townie. Copper in particular has much wider support than ETL.

Why shouldn't I think your scumbuddies with TBG who conveniently picked the one wagon that Kill, Magna and I might have all jump to? That would explain your inconsistent reads and rationale.

town reading persivul
not scum reading shotty
copper i have never liked your push on

as i explained to magna, i'm not particularly worried about "appearing townie" (i wagoned ircher despite thinking and declaring that he was town, i pushed a "gotcha" wagon on cytheflyguy for kicks, to see who'd hop on, and it's generated a lot of reactions which i can learn a lot from later on based on flips and associatives) so why are you preaching to me that i should try to look townie. and why are you saying it like "keep in mind, this doesn't make you look townie"

this is frustrating / nigh infuriating.

also saying i'm scumbuddies with TBG is pretty insulting because either we're selling a WIFOM play really hard with this mutual buddying or we actually think each other are town.

either way it boils down to you're trying to make me look bad for disagreeing with you.

[zakk]

Now, I'm sorry you feel your links were too easy to reveal. Scum townread each other all the time. It's hard to get bus votes for that reason. That's not some "Wifom play" as you call it. That's why town have to recognize each other and fucking work together.

Also, I wasn't preaching to you that you should look townie. I was highlighting to others your confession to scummy behavior (shopping a wagon on ETL to protect TBG, despite not directly stating so at the time and now wagoning Ircher despite thinking he was town). Forcing players into confessions they don't want to make is naturally going to be frustrating.

Now, when I've got you confessing to outright trying to save TBG without directly stating so, you're claiming any suspicion on the both of you is merely wifom. Yeah, I don't think so. Cross-examination is what I do. I was never going to get you to confess to being scum. Boxing players in is a damn good start though.

I'm sorry you feel frustrated. I really do. Yet, you're going to get lynched as soon as I'm humanly capable. I just don't have as many votes/dayvigs as I need. You want to convince me you're town. Start bussing.

clearly you aren't understanding
whether that's you being intentionally obtuse or not is the only question here

i'm disinclined to humor you any further.

what is it with the egos on this site.

[zakk]

Ircher your 1065 is real pretty looking but I can't read the top half

In other news ircher wagon is still bad

[zakk]

Ooooo I can switch skins to mad black and read it. Tomorrow tho

[zakk]

And yes shotty I'm kinda ignoring u

[zakk]

im town

the sad part is, i pretty much believe you at this point

[zakk]

Starting to think seth is a jester... Is that role greylist?

i feel this too. i IMMEDIATELY wanted to lynch him after reading 1097.

[zakk]

cytheflyguy did not pick up his prod and will be replaced.

Ok, I'm sorry! Will catch up soon I promise!

...

[zakk]

also @ aneninen: i liked the cy-wagon at first, but then i didn't.

you (and Egg) just played with me in killer instinct where as scum, i started, pushed, and sat on, 2 separate mislynches, as well as basically doing the same on the last day. and i pulled like no suspicion for doing so.

as scum when i think someone's an easy lynch i'll take it. sitting on a wagon is easy.
however when i'm town i get dissatisfied easy and jump around a lot.

obv take that with a grain of salt but there it is.

[zakk]

Whoever said that Ircher is town for not crumbling under the pressure didn't bother to check how he plays as scum or had a vested interest in town-reading that slot (can't scroll back easily on the phone).

Mini 1793 just finished. I was scum there.

i just looked it up.
and i notice that titus was scum with you


titus. talk to me about this.

[zakk]

i need to reset my reads and start over from ground zero. very little makes sense right now.

[zakk]

Anybody who's voting for a 1 man wagon needs to jump off, reread, and pick a wagon

Anybody who's voting TehBrawlGuy is either stupid, scum, or not paying attention

Anybody who's voting ircher, that ship has sailed and it's time for you to stop doggy paddling towards it

In other words

Everyone vote heuristic. I could also do with a wagon swimg onto ETL.

[zakk]

Titus I kinda think you are scum. But I kinda think you are town. Which is it? And if town, why do you seem so scummy?

[zakk]

Because I know i'm not scum, and I don't think he is either, and responding to your point is a waste of my time. I'm only interested in whether or not you are scum

Do you have a reason to avoid my question?

[zakk]

Amen wagon is shite, have u seen the heur wagon? It's dope

[zakk]

Egg, brawl, ircher, me, and Persivul should all vote together in a block. Expedience and projectmatt are also invited.

Thoughts?

[zakk]

^this seems very town regardless of titus' alignment.

[zakk]

Mod

: With out talking about on going games I will just say either replace me or replace Seth, and for why check the bans thread. I refuse to play with them.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p7950184

same. i recommend force-replace. that's awful.

[zakk]

scum must be reveling in all these potential mislynch options

this is fucking cringeworthy.

[zakk]

nothing wrong with ircher being in the block as long as he votes who we vote.
doesn't matter who's in the block as long as they vote how they're told.

this isn't a town block. it's a vote block guided by popular demand.

and we don't let anyone get away with coasting due to being part of the block. this doesn't give anyone an excuse for anything. if other people want to vote with us great. if not, fine by us. but i think we can probably all agree on decent lynches.

personally i would think you and ircher would be inclined to be up for this type of thing, seeing as you guys have wagons on you already, and i'm assuming this vote block would be targeting outside itself.

and if we think someone is town, and they're down, we can add them.

yea?

[zakk]

Umm pardon me but whose demand. That block has three scum in it, at least.

So you can kiss my ass on this block.

Popular demand from block ppl

We don't care about you outsiders

[zakk]

Egg, brawl, ircher, me, and Persivul should all vote together in a block. Expedience and projectmatt are also invited.

Thoughts?

What do you think about voting ETL?

Lol have you read my posts about ETL? ISO me

[zakk]

Also I agree about Titus. I don't think she's a good lynch because I do want her around if she's town, but I don't want her to be alive very long if I don't know her alignment. Copping is a great idea but "directing the cop" is a bad idea because scum can just kill that player and waste an investigation. Surprised this idea came from you Persivul.

[zakk]

I probably might be off for saying this as I don't have much ground for saying much lol, but for what people are saying (with her fearmongering and being a hypocrite and all). I'll try to do an ISO of her later, but until then.

VOTE: Titus

I am only semi-useless now yaaaaaaaay!

Titus is a bad lynch for today.

But, she would be an excellent choice for a cop tonight.

Wait aren't you voting Titus?

[zakk]

@Egg, I have that discussion with Nahdia. Like I said, buzz me when you're caught up. I don't want to repeat things you'll find out later.

I like Ircher acknowledging his biggest scumread and him are getting into a war helping no one, since no one is following his vote.

@Anen, It might be beetle juice. That is null though. My scum pool is TBG, zakk, Brawl, Persivul and Copper. Matt is making a run for a slot though.

Lmfao

you must either really think TBG/Brawl is scum to list him twice
or
you are scum trying to make your scum reads list look bigger than it is
or
as either alignment you are just not even paying attention

[zakk]

Also it's kind of adorable that you scum read most of my top town reads

And wouldn't it be ironic if the same group decided to blockvote you

[zakk]

Pedit- even more so with shotty

[zakk]

I probably might be off for saying this as I don't have much ground for saying much lol, but for what people are saying (with her fearmongering and being a hypocrite and all). I'll try to do an ISO of her later, but until then.

VOTE: Titus

I am only semi-useless now yaaaaaaaay!

Titus is a bad lynch for today.

But, she would be an excellent choice for a cop tonight.

Wait aren't you voting Titus?

Yup. He's been vote parked on me.

Vote parks me.
Says I am a terrible lynch.
You highlight I might die tonight.
Persivul claims investigative on me and whoops I dead.

:-p

Okayyyyyy ya this isn't persy being smart

Wtf Persivul pls don't be scum

[zakk]

Vote: ETL

Autobots, transform and roll out! Lol

[zakk]

I don't really have an argument against Seth except he's really VI and his lynch would tell us much less than ETLs from that standpoint as well as from who has posted more opinions, etc.

I'm not super against lynching him but I want a useful flip. Him flipping town won't help us, and I'm in no way convinced he'll flip scum. He's an even lazier lynch than cytheflyguy no matter how much they both seem like attractive lynches.

Meanwhile if we lynch them, we potentially lose 2-3 of our strongest players at night

[zakk]

Why don't you like the idea Titus?

[zakk]

I like your post. Who do you wanna wagon then?

[zakk]

I think you're just trying to pooh pooh a good idea because you're not invited. That or you want to try to force a shitty wagon through, and your chances of that are lessened with coagulation on good wagons, even by your "scumreads"

I still don't even think you're town. Honestly I can't trust you at all after last weekend lol

[zakk]

Haha we need more aneninen drunk posting. I will probably join in, in an hour or two. Lolol

[zakk]

LOL

[zakk]

I need to pre game damnnn

Also Happy Memorial Day everyone in the U.S.

[zakk]

@Anen
The more town ETL and Titus look, the more likely it is that you are on the wrong side of the fence with Persivul, Egg etc..., plus I still vividly remember the last time you tried to be my handler when you were scum and I was on and off the Heartless hydra and this has somewhat the same feel to it.

Tell me more

[zakk]

Titus, nope.

Drmy, zakk, and Brawl are among my strongst town reads.

Copper I lean town on.

And was Persivul the other? He's about on the same level as Copper for me.

I'd much rather lynch within Ircher/Seth/Killthestory/Huer/Lowell

I didn't have Lowell on my hit list but in checking I agree his play has been pretty textbook scummy especially for an oldbie. Pop in every once in a while, throw shade, leave.

[zakk]

Oooo that's interesting. Not a fan of Titus pushing for so much info from liger right off the bat, but I find myself wanting to know too. I'm a sucker for free info.

Deadline extension much appreciated btw

Liger claiming the hood makes him more likely town, imo
I don't see scum claiming that right off the bat.

[zakk]

Which concerns me because I don't even have reads on them.

This leads me to believe that you feel your ability to read those people is better than anyone else on the playerlist. Is this the case? What does your read on those people have to do with allowing others to get a better handle on them?

This tells me you have a big ego.

LOL

[zakk]

I mean I guess it can't do that much harm?
Its Me, copper223, Persivul, and MagnaofIllusion.

Omg. Wow

[zakk]

Basically that says most of your scum list is town, Titus LOL

[zakk]

Proof of when I created the excel doc and the notes within Normally I don't share that stuff but I didn't get much done on it anyway so I don't care.

This feels like a desperate attempt for town cred

[zakk]

Basically that says most of your scum list is town, Titus LOL

Yeah, no.

In a 4p hood, it's likely one scum exists. There is one scum from my reads in the hood.

Why do you think that says my reads are wrong?

I thought I remembered you pushing copper as scum, also Persivul, and they are both in it

[zakk]

I remembered you pushing them as scum, and I thought I remembered you pushing Seth too***

[zakk]

zakk, can you vote magna?

i could, but i don't really want to

much prefer ETL because her reads are shite and it seems they are intentionally so

Titus' reads are also shite but i am not sure if that's just her being wrong or not

[zakk]

I want Titus to be town. she LOOKS town but I don't trust my gut there.

With the revelation of the existence and composition of the hood, town!Titus would have been all over me.

I have been all over you for ages.

oh. you mean like you were allllllllll over copper? (seriously, click this, people)

...

so then, why did you say there's "one" scum read in the hood when I said you had more than one in there?

Basically that says most of your scum list is town, Titus LOL

Yeah, no.

In a 4p hood, it's likely one scum exists. There is one scum from my reads in the hood.

Why do you think that says my reads are wrong?

and then when i called you out on that you basically handwaved it with the equivalent of "meh, my reads changed"

but you had them as "scum that needs to die yesterday" and "lean scum" in the same post here

and then here you had copper as "copper223 - Scum. Shit trajectory. No pushes after RVS/early game. The vote rationale in 169 is garbage. Then he votes Seth over semantics."

you mention persivul and copper as scum together

again

right here where you specifically advise me to push wagons on people better than ETL, such as... guess who? ...

copper

.



THEEEEENNN....

since you realized it was

not to your townie-image benefit

to be scumreading more than one person in there, suddenly you're not scumreading copper any more

i guarantee if TBG was in that neighborhood, you'd magically have a town read on him too.

vote: titus

you've been pushing shitty wagons all day, and throwing shade all over the place, and now we have the smoking dagger.

[zakk]

i actually feel really really good about this, which is more than i can say for any of the other wagons i've been on.

[zakk]

GAH./

[zakk]

*handwave*

[zakk]

You have tried

every single thing

to not lynch my scumreads and now you're just voting me out of lack of recourse anywhere else. You've floated

almost every other slot

in the game.

now who's blatantly misrepresenting?

do you honestly think ircher and copper and brawl and persivul and me are all scum together?
or is it possible that you're just wrong? (or scum, which is what i'm guessing)

to try not to lynch your scumreads:

i could easily have hopped on a wagon and shut my mouth. i didn't. and won't.
i could easily have ignored controversy and played it cool. i didn't. and won't.

the problem here for me is, i haven't seen you be so AGGRESSIVELY BAD -- EVER.

in games i've seen you play. in games i've played with you. in games i've modded you in. in meatworld/real life mafia.

you're only THIS SHITTY as scum.

[zakk]

zakk, can you vote magna?

i could, but i don't really want to

much prefer ETL because her reads are shite and it seems they are intentionally so

Yeah, but now that the hood is out me v. magna makes sense.

why is it you vs. magna?

i had it as liger being town, and you being town, and it being between seth and magna.

but you're saying it's you vs. magna.
implying that you know one of

you two

is scum.

[zakk]

and that's disregarding that we don't

know

if one of the neighborhood is scum.

[zakk]

I know god has got me, I don't every worry,
I get it by any means necessary,
The haters want my career dead and buried,
That's a long shot, fuckin' Stephen Curry.

i will allow this, based on the fact that the warriors won yesterday and curry put up 36 and i'm elated.

[zakk]

TBG why ate you scum

I'm pretty interest gem and its way time to say

Today

TODAY

[zakk]

Epically LIES LIES LIES

[zakk]

why is it you vs. magna?

i had it as liger being town, and you being town, and it being between seth and magna.

but you're saying it's you vs. magna.
implying that you know one of you two is scum.

Seriously? I'm included because I'm the one Titus scum read that's in the hood, so if I do get lynched, my flip will show that Titus is likely scum, or at best she's town with bad reads and shouldn't be a leader.

Yeah but usually people make posts from their own perspective not from the perspective of their number one the detractor

[zakk]

Number one detractor, no the

[zakk]

Actually wait

Unvote

Implied day talk for scum changes things

It literally makes no sense for Titus-scum to change reads like that if she knew there would be at least 1 scum in the neighborhood
because if she was scum with one of them she'd know exactly who was in the hood and which was scum and how to fake her reads

Therefore Titus would be more likely to be TOWN.

however she argued very much against my point when she (and I) thought it showed she was scum, and now that it shows her as more likely to be town I dont know what to think LOL

[zakk]

NO WAIT

if she was scum she'd have been in the mindset of "scum have day talk" and would not have tried to prove I was misrepping her, she would have probably explained why that made her TOWN not scum

Lol I'm so proud of myself

Titus is back in townside. Persivul is dipping to scum for his magma interactions

ETL jumping on pers feels scummy after pers was willing to lynch her

if pers is scum DTL makemake very little sense as scumbuddy
but if pers is town is town then I feel even more confident in ETL scum

Things are making sense now

[zakk]

@Persivul
Why are you so eager to flip if you aren't even sure that Titus/ETL are scum and pushing on you?

Before he answers, I have opinions on this, but I want to know what you think the answer is

[zakk]

This page looks more like town for Zakk.

Even though he's still drastically wrong about me.

if pers turns out to be scum you have nothing to worry about. his lynch is not a great idea though.

and personally i think lynching from within the neighborhood and hoping to hit scum is a terrible idea.

i'd much rather lynch someone outside the hood.

[zakk]

This page looks more like town for Zakk.

Even though he's still drastically wrong about me.

if pers turns out to be scum you have nothing to worry about. his lynch is not a great idea though.

and personally i think lynching from within the neighborhood and hoping to hit scum is a terrible idea.

i'd much rather lynch someone outside the hood.

Why? The neighborhood has, provided the wiki theory is accurate, 1/4 odds of hitting scum

at worst

. Then there's presumably lower odds in the rest of the game. With 4/5 in 17. 4/17 = worse. The only way for it to be strategically advantageous to lynch outside the hood is if you're supposing 6 scum in the game.

yeah that makes sense on one level, but i don't play mafia to play a random number generator

also i don't particularly want to lynch anyone in the hood

[zakk]

@Zakk

Before he answers, I have opinions on this, but I want to know what you think the answer is

If there is no real conviction behind it scum_persi is playing the: idgaf lynch me card because that's against his alignment so he would normally only do so as ticked off town, in an effort to WIFOM us into town reading him.

If he is town he is doing so out of frustration with how the game is going and I don't think it's a good idea.

in my opinion that is 100% against persivul's M.O. as town, so that would be a really stupid play

[zakk]

@Zakk

Before he answers, I have opinions on this, but I want to know what you think the answer is

If there is no real conviction behind it scum_persi is playing the: idgaf lynch me card because that's against his alignment so he would normally only do so as ticked off town, in an effort to WIFOM us into town reading him.

If he is town he is doing so out of frustration with how the game is going and I don't think it's a good idea.

If you think Persivul is scum, you should join us on Persivul. He's scum, plus the wagon is all town (fmpov).

you have no way of knowing any of that unless you're scum
+
no
+
you said it was scummy for me to campaign for ETL's lynch and now you're doing the exact same thing

[zakk]

this should come into play at some point too



at least for posterity, a snapshot of this moment in time

[zakk]

copper/liger - one of these is scum

@copper:

but if pers is town is town then I feel even more confident in ETL scum

This is why I'm cool with a lynch. I think there are clear associatives to be drawn.

Wait. So you are saying you are Town and cool with being lynched for associatives. And relaying this to Copper who has (I don’t recall a read from you on his slot recently) a 50/50 shot at being scum?

yeah this isn't town persivul.

THIS is town persivul.
THIS is town persivul.

what manga just illuminated is scum persivul.

vote: Persivul

[zakk]

i use the info i've got on people. i've always thought of you as a strong town player ever since.

and i watched you play a HELLA WEAK town game in Evo mafia... oh wait, you were scum.

your game looks the same here... you seemed town, but you're not being logical from a town POV, it only makes sense if you're trying to FAKE a town POV.


ALSO: if you were town you probably wouldn't have bothered to check the links
because hypothetical town-you would know that no matter what the links held, they wouldn't be relevant if it was related to me thinking you are scum.

sooo that's points against you too.

and you being like "are you scum or a fucking idiot" is also pretty laughable because i'm clearly neither.

[zakk]

Yeah, in my last game with him (in which I actually was scum) he was one of the better townies - when he was active, which was sporadic. He was way better than this.

i was way better than this + we got rolled, without even a scum lynch ever. my most embarrassing game on site.

i certainly don't think that's "way better than this" by any stretch of the imagination.

[zakk]

Btw my egg vote was purely to test reactions and opportunism
VOTE: Zack

sure it was. what did you learn from that?

i'm all for a good reaction test. hence the ircher/cy wagons.

Spoiler:

and its either zach or zakk pls, don't associate me with this bullshit

[zakk]

I put two k's but my phone autocorrected I'm sorry.

lol its fine i really don't care

[zakk]

Is zakk scum, btw? I'm really asking. bc damn I do not know.

No.

[zakk]

ALSO: if you were town you probably wouldn't have bothered to check the links
because hypothetical town-you would know that no matter what the links held, they wouldn't be relevant if it was related to me thinking you are scum.

That is possibly the furthest reach I've heard in my time on this site.

actually it's an excellent point.

i love when things finally start making sense to me and i start making great points and even people i've been trying to lynch start sucking up to me

[zakk]

Is zakk scum, btw? I'm really asking. bc damn I do not know.

this is a weird post.

if there's an alignment cop i request they check Lowell.

i thought the same. looks like Lazytown to me, which is why i answered it succinctly instead of overanalyzing it

don't know how Lowell-scum plays, but to me this looks more like a player trying to get back into the game mentally than someone trying to throw shade, bc 1. way too obvious in a short iso 2. easy to call out, like you just did, and 3. i assume lowell is smarter than that

and overthinking THAT would be overanalyzing. so he gets a detached townread for now.

[zakk]

wait i posted too soon. i thought the same, that it was weird, but i forgot i quoted 2 posts.

so:
stop telling hypothetical cops what to do, they are gonna inspect whoever they damn well please


also, you're one to talk, with regards to coming in and making off-sounding posts.
why don't you tell me what you think about pers/magnus and the weird titus/ETL/me love/hate triangle.

[zakk]

Hey brawl vote Persivul with me and Titus instead

I think Titus is town based on pov stuff which I know she could fake but also the wagon on Persivul is good and he's scummy

Everything makes more sense when you assume Titus is town and notice pers is scum. You're being conf biasy on Titus like I was for a bit. Read my recent posts.

Also. Titus. you can't push both the brawl and pers wagons. I choose to trust you right now and I have good reason to mistrust Persivul and I also think TBG is town so let's all coagulate on a Persivul lynch yea?

Stop antagonizing TBG pls

Drink the koolaid ... I will lead us to victoryyy

[zakk]

That's pretty common to have mixed feelings on me especially on early days because I vote a lot of different stuff and push a lot of different ways to see what happens and who does what, so that a flip or two from the lynch & Nk will actually tell us something worthwhile instead of just culling numbers

Lowell read tutus /pers and let me know your thoughts pls

[zakk]

i just explained the "why", but ok.
do your own research obv.

you'll come around to me on later days. that's normal for most townies.

[zakk]

you've already begun coming around, if you're town

you've realized it's better to be on my side, if you're scum

either way i'm probably gonna die before d3

[zakk]

If you were really trying to dispute this you’d have brought up the much better point that the first link isn’t even to a game but to GTKAS for Zakk himself. That’s what someone who actually was criticially assessing zakk’s post would do. Because it is garbage to say “This is Town Pers” and to link to non-game thread.

But you just try to laugh it off as if meta from a year ago somehow isn’t valid. People are bringing up meta for me from 5 to 6 years ago on a regular basis.

This is the kind of crap that is passing for analysis in this game.

Titus came in forming alliances and setting herself up as a leader. I pressured her, earning myself a scum read. The correct question to be asking yourself is: who has more motivation to do that: scum!pers, or town!pers?

1. i don't see how titus has done that. it's seemed more like she's violently distancing from "alliances" such as where ircher started humping her leg (to put it crassly) and decrying the fact that i was creating a voting block as scummy (maybe because of the people on it but still the point stands)

2. you seemed fine with being in my "alliance", why are you making it sound like it was a bad thing taht Titus did it?

[zakk]

Not today Nahdia.

i

am

dying

[zakk]

1. i don't see how titus has done that.

She's currently negotiating an alliance with nahdia as one example.

"titus came in forming alliances" ≠ "titus resisted alliances up until now, 200-odd posts later"

2. you seemed fine with being in my "alliance", why are you making it sound like it was a bad thing taht Titus did it?

Again, what is scum!pers's motivation to poke the bear? You quote my post, then pick at the details while avoiding what's really important. In your case, I don't know if that's scummy or confbias.

what is anyone's motivation to poke the bear? town-ness. or wanting to be seen as town. but... what is scum-persivul's motivation to want to be seen as town? shit, idk man, you tell me.



as far as me picking at the details instead of avoiding what's really important:

1. well, this, for one

2. what "important" stuff did i miss? seems like a pissing match between you and someone else again.




with regards to "idk if thats scummy or confbias"

1.

....déjà vu; ... a pattern of shade throwing and ad hominem i deduce, qui-gon.

2.

and it's pretty easy to see: if you Actually Care About Reading ISOs, like you do for ETL, you SHOULD DEFINITELY be reading mine,

especially

if you don't know if i'm "scummy or confbiased" or "a fucking idiot", and

ESPECIALLY

after you asked me to comment on ETL, and I prompted you to "read my ISO"

so:
if you HAD iso'd me, you should probably have seen that my previously solid town read (including me inviting you to my vote block) gradually devolved into scummy based entirely on your scummy posts.... including encouraging people to vote for you.

which leads me to:

3.

according to His Majesty the King, apparently i'm

NOT

a "fucking idiot".

so... you think i'm "scummy or confbiased" then? well, you

also should know

i'm not confbiased based on a) the aforementioned strong town read i had on you devolving due to scumminess galore, and b) my total 180 on titus (hint: that shit's also in my iso).

therefore,

you should think i'm scum.

but you've only ever just done the really wishwashy weasely "you're either dumb or scum" thing which basically is scum shorthand for

"HEY EVERYONE. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THIS OPINION"

which is essentially the archetype of ad hominem.

in essence you're talking to me like i'm town, BUT you're throwing shade on me, and you're pandering to wide audiences with your backhanded accusations/ad hominem attacks of me, instead of bringing up things which would imply one way or the other, you've just stated that i'm scum or stupid multiple times, as if saying something enough times will make it true (another favorite scum tactic).

also

, your false dichotomy 1v1 of you vs. magna as the scum in the neighborhood, which, as town, you shouldn't have had.

also also

wik

, you've fallen to one of my favorite scum tells: the "this is what i would have done as scum" tell. townies don't need to do that shit, and doing it implies "i am aware of what HYPOTHETICAL scum me would do, and i am NOT DOING THAT". just doesn't feel natural for a townie to say it, especially the way you said it. talking about yourself in the third person as scum!pers as if distancing from that, doesn't help your case. it damns you more.

also also also

, (not that i need to scrape the bottom of the barrel, but) in hindsight, i feel that your activity levels are more indicative of scum than town, given the limited meta i have on you — recently (scum), and also as town, which was a year ago, as you were so quick to mention.

also also also also

, (since i'm on a roll here), generally speaking, i just don't think you're striking the proper tone with people on your wagon. that feels scummy too.




hence



boom son, you ded

pew pew pew



put that shit in your pipe and smoke it

[zakk]

it's not my favorite really did i say that? it's just one i use.

[zakk]

oh, "one of my favorites" yeah. i guess that was an overstatement. my favorite scumtell is another sekrit sekrit one.

[zakk]

2. what "important" stuff did i miss? seems like a pissing match between you and someone else again.

You missed the big picture again - why would scum!pers choose to go up against town!Titus on D1? It makes absolutely no sense. You waved it off as wifom, which can be applied to 90% of this game.

if that's all you found worth responding to then i will wrap the noose around your fucking neck myself

[zakk]

Going to bed but

Last few pages of notes include:

Town points for liger zero
Scum points for Nadia
Town points for expedience

And Cakez, for the love of not feeding the trolls can you please force replace kill the story?

[zakk]

I've played with Kop-scum in a large game before, we'll see if he acts the same way.

This quote in particular stuck out to me as rather townie sounding

[zakk]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: killthestory

I will not abide another day of this utter shit

[zakk]

Yeah. you're right. And he'll probably get vigged. But damn that felt good.

I reserve the right to hammer Persivul.

[zakk]

Actuallyyy I didn't realize it was just a day, but since it is, yeah.

VOTE: Persivul

KTS pls for the sake of decency stop being a [removed - mith]

[zakk]

And yes as I said the hammer thing I realized how petty that was/is lol. Nvm

I'm gonna take a break from this game

[zakk]

I think pers is likely scum but this KTS wagon is sooooooo tempting

We will learn more from lynching pers than KTS by a power of like 10x

Leave him for a vig. If he's still alive by like D3 tho, I'm down

[zakk]

Saw this

Just a thing I wanted to bring up as I was looking through his ISO, is it normal for Zakk to respond to a bit of doubt on his votes with "it was just a reaction test" / does it look like it actually was? He seemed very genuine with his vote to me.

Also splintering up like this so close to deadline is bad, we need to find a wagon and stick to it.

Day one I do a lot of weird stuff to get people to react and ensure we learn a lot from the lunch/Nk flips but if you have questions about anything specifically just ask and if I am around I'll answer

[zakk]

Oh wow I missed a LOT of pages

Why is there so much resistance to this Persivul wagon??

[zakk]

Whoever jumped on cy get back on pers, this is ridiculous

Obv there is opposition to his wagon

[zakk]

Whoever jumped on cy get back on pers, this is ridiculous

Obv there is opposition to his wagon

Pretty sure the jumpers all went to KTS

yeah that's what i meant. i was just reading ETL's post about cy and said the wrong one cause brain fart

[zakk]

TBG feels even townier now. Shaziro seems pretty town as well.

[zakk]

OH SHIT

[zakk]

I totes called TBG town.

Whoever shot KTS, thank ye kindly

[zakk]

well there are three kills, which either means

2 scum teams 1 vig
2 scum teams 1 sk
1 scum team 1 sk 1 vig

i think it's unlikely anyone who was scum or SK would want to take out KTS, especially an SK. they would want him alive to draw aggro

so eliminating the 2 scum teams 1 sk option, we have:

2 scum teams 1 vig
1 scum team 1 sk 1 vig

however, since i think that TBG was seen as someone who was a wagon that existed pretty much all day, but wasn't able to be pushed through, it's possible that either an SK, "rival" scum, or a vig would want to off him, thinking he was scum, and KTS seems like a vig shot for daaammmnnnn sure

so NK analysis leaves us with:

vigilante KTS
scum/sk TBG
scum/sk ETL

i'm happy with this.

so now we need to look for multi-scum dynamics.

[zakk]

well there are three kills, which either means

2 scum teams 1 vig
2 scum teams 1 sk
1 scum team 1 sk 1 vig

i think it's unlikely anyone who was scum or SK would want to take out KTS, especially an SK. they would want him alive to draw aggro

so eliminating the 2 scum teams 1 sk option, we have:

2 scum teams 1 vig
1 scum team 1 sk 1 vig

however, since i think that TBG was seen as someone who was a wagon that existed pretty much all day, but wasn't able to be pushed through, it's possible that either an SK, "rival" scum, or a vig would want to off him, thinking he was scum, and KTS seems like a vig shot for daaammmnnnn sure

so NK analysis leaves us with:

vigilante KTS
scum/sk TBG
scum/sk ETL

i'm happy with this.

so now we need to look for multi-scum dynamics.

Your team didn't shoot kTS got it.

I'm town BUT

The fact that persivul's flip changes nothing for you, and you still have all the same reads is inconsistent.

It changes EVERYTHING for me.

[zakk]

Magma talk to me about the Persivul flip

Seth/Kop what do you think of coppers vote on you and is it consistent with what copper as town would do?

I think whether it's SK or multiball my reads were probably off yesterday because I was really expecting pers to be scum AND I was really expecting to die so I don't have much to go on yet except that Titus looks bad

Titus, Lowell, AND Nadia - what do you think of the last minute wagon trend AWAY from Persivul even though all scum whatever kind knew he wasn't them? And with KTS flipping town too even more WTF

also, why did ETL die?

That's the homework. I have many many many more thoughts for later

[zakk]

Also lol at the lazy votes on me

Shotty should be on Titus based on pers flip which makes me think they're scum together kinda, or possibly scum of differing faction bantering to seem less dangerous to each other and avoid NKs in the future

In fact even though after 3 deaths I expect everyone to be playing more survivalistic right now, Titus not changing her reads AND adopting a more friendly tone with people is scum

Vote: titus

Also

[zakk]

Titus, Lowell, AND Nadia - what do you think of the last minute wagon trend AWAY from Persivul even though all scum whatever kind knew he wasn't them? And with KTS flipping town too even more WTF

I don't understand this question at all. I guess... those people were smart? Except that scum also didn't use their kills effectively, so it probably means nothing.

this is a TOTAL cop out.

are you really telling me you think "being smart" somehow equates to people knowing persivul was town?

especially in a game where there's very likely multiball?

i happen to KNOW that persivul as town is a DAMN good scumhunter (i linked it somewhere i think), so the only explanation to me is that scum either didn't feel threatened by him and wanted to keep him alive, or they knew that persivul was phoning it in this game regardless of his alignment.

but we ALSO know that Brawlguy AND killthestory were town, so it was town vs town vs town for the main wagons. But why pull a wagon off (potentially) REALLY GOOD town to put it on SUPER VI town? that's the question.



so no

this is not "straight up chatter"




this is me asking you a legitimate question, and you dodging it.

"i guess people were smart? it probably means nothing" is not an acceptable answer in the least.




BUT




the reason i asked YOU is BECAUSE you're voting me.
and i wanted to see if your answer would be as lazy as your vote on me.

oh and hey!! surprise. it was.

Really what I think is "homework" like this is why many people think you're scum. This looks like straight-up chatter, for nothing.

and this.

1.

you are one of those "many people", are you not?
but you don't mention yourself in this. "i among many others" would be proper phrasing here, yet you use "many people"
and if you're not one of those people who are voting me for this,
then why ARE you voting me?

2.

many people "think you're scum"
not many people "are voting you"

big difference!

2b.

with this post you seem to be trying to subliminally reinforce that

"many people think zakk is scum"

EVEN though you've not provided a single reason in any of your posts about me

Spoiler: all NINE instances of you mentioning me in the ENTIRE game thus far

FUCK YEAH! Large game!

VOTE:

zakk

shotty, irch... you guys town?

titus? you town finally?

also copper is town.

I'm back, baby. From post 268, the last one I can remember:

308- copper calls out Nos' dumb post [+, hadn't thought of that]
317- matt wants my scumread on titus [I forget, but okay]
319- shotty continues hard charge on irch [-, meh, don't really see it, looks like bluster]
330- ETL disagrees, calls irch newbtown
345- titus agrees with ETL on irch
355-

zakk

calls seth excitednewbtown [+, agree with this entirely]
366- cy makes laziest vote ever [+, I sort of like this, shows he's carefree and doesn't care about obvvotes coming his way]
370s- cy wagon takes off [-, too easy, folks... ignore the low-hanging fruit!]
377- anen enters [+, particularly the part about shotty's weirdness was new and interesting]
393- ETL calls cy wagon lazy [+, yes, exactly!]
406- heur joins cy wagon after long rambling post [-, feels contrived]
400s- exped enters, townily
455- cy leads with 6 votes
491- pers votes irch for the contrived number system scoring [-, why now?]
493- good observation from copper on pers' post [+]
500-

zakk

votes titus, makes case [+, hadn't thought about this]
531- ETL calls out wagon on "null" cy [+, completely agree]
530s- Titus and ETL argue about cy wagon
5xx- nos says "um, but really, didn't seth claim scum?" [+, I don't agree, but this post looks town]
596- magna returns, votes killthestory [+, new content, this is good and what the game needed]
620, heur votes cy, then asks someone else to explain why [-, opportunistic]
662- seth explains what's wrong with cy wagon [+, very much agree]
670s- killthestory offers content [+, looks town here]


I'm buying irch, seth, and cy as newbtown. Particularly in the case of the latter two, I get a real sense of carefreeness which I like. Not everyone is the same, of course, but in my first few games as scum, I was cagey and careful as hell. I would

never

post something as votebaiting as "LOL haven't really read, whatever, VOTE X." seth's weird doubling down on the SK thing, while still confusing, also reads town to me. And Irch has had 30 pages to completely crumble, shotty has been on him from minute one, and hasn't, really. I also don't see what he has to gain by being so prolific a poster as scum, particularly since every time he posts he gets hammered by half a dozen players.

I'm also getting townvibes from exped, ETL,

zakk

, and egg. They've all been active, in a good way, and in a tone that strikes me as town. copper and matt are probably town.

VOTE: heur If I were forced to describe "lurking in plain sight," I would just cut and paste this guy's iso. He lazily joined the cy wagon (twice?), has offered nothing, and hasn't really made a case on anyone.

fos pers

I've come full circle on him. He now looks quiet and opportunistic, compared to what I was seeing early. In fact, he reads like scum who through good fortune earned some townpoints early and has been trying to coast on it ever since. I've seen pers do more than this, and given that this is a pretty dynamic game with lots of lolcharacters, I'm suspicious why I haven't seen it here.

fos TehBrawlGuy

This reads like newbscum to me. The difference between he and cy or seth is that he's being careful, and they're not. I dislike careful.

fos shotty

I don't know what to make of him. On the one hand, he's been tunnelling like crazy. In ISO, it's clear that ircher is the

only

person shotty thinks about at all. There's a case to be made here that he's tunnelling aggressively and trying to look active and combative while really causing offense to no one but ircher. On the other hand... I've definitely done this. Got a read in my head early, confbiased the shit out of it, and just lazily followed it down the river until the target, or I, am dead. Not necessarily alignment indicative.

Good to be back. Four days without internet is basically the world collapsing around me.

Back. Still reading through.

fos matt

not overwhelmed by projectmatt's read list in 1226. seems generic and tame, also more equivocal than I'd like. I also don't like

zakk

's dumbass voting block in 1275.

I'm also getting strong scumvibes from pers, who seems to show up every so often and do just enough to stay out of the limelight. I'd switch to him but it seems anen has the better chance.

titus looks more town than I remember, as does shotty. feeling very sure that cy is town.

some other things happening I'm sure. will get to them.

Is

zakk

scum, btw? I'm really asking. bc damn I do not know.

Is zakk scum, btw? I'm really asking. bc damn I do not know.

this is a weird post.

if there's an alignment cop i request they check Lowell.

i thought the same. looks like Lazytown to me, which is why i answered it succinctly instead of overanalyzing it

don't know how Lowell-scum plays, but to me this looks more like a player trying to get back into the game mentally than someone trying to throw shade, bc 1. way too obvious in a short iso 2. easy to call out, like you just did, and 3. i assume lowell is smarter than that

and overthinking THAT would be overanalyzing. so he gets a detached townread for now.

zakk

's right. I just can't sort him. If I thought specifically he was scum I'd say so. I don't do the "omg u guyz I don't know maybe X is scum guyz? but im just sayin'", as a rule, regardless of alignment.

What made me ask the question is that, despite being an active poster, I have no good read on him. Which is confusing for me.

I'll be gone until Tuesday, so I have about 7 hours to cast my last vote of the day. As of now I'm fine with pers....reading back the last few pages

zakk

looks better and pers looks worse.

I sort of want to know what happened to the TBG wagon, though. Seems like he may have got out of a lynch by going MIA, a bad precedent. I don't see TKS's case on ETL, though I do have a strong townread on TKS. Titus has been fine, nahdia is still clear town to me. Also I'm sure there's other players but meh.

I'm back.

VOTE:

zakk

I was coming around on this yesterday. Wish it had happened sooner. I'm also intrigued by the anen case. Not seeing copper case, meh on Titus.

well obviously,

other than

hemming

and

hawing

about "gee i wonder if zakk is scum" publically

which basically amounts to you trying to get someone to decide FOR you...

...so that you can then hop on my wagon and hide among the "but

many people

think zakk is scum!" defense.






sooooooo in other words.

you're scum.

vote: lowell

[zakk]

Spoiler: tl;dr

zakk omgus votes lowell (who is scum)

[zakk]

No. Vote Lowell

[zakk]

What's your read on Kop Zakk?

Read on Kop is ???
Read on Seth was townish

Haven't been looking at Kop much

[zakk]

@zakk, your longer "OMG that wasn't mindless chatter" OMGUS post looks even more like mindless chatter than the previous one did.

if this is your only response

then you can hang by the neck until dead

[zakk]

i just noticed that both shotty and titus are trying to paint me as scum with the other one

like really guys let me help you distance from each other harder

[zakk]

i just noticed that both shotty and titus are trying to paint me as scum with the other one

like really guys let me help you distance from each other harder

Hahaha. Hi. The thread called. It wants you to stop revising history.

Scum team: Titus, Ircher, Copper
3rd party: Zakk

Scum:
Titus
Copper
Zakk

You couldn't get a wagon on me because the dead town thought i was town...so now I am going to vote you.

P.s. I dare you to bus Zakk.

You're already bussing zakk though.

So why not vote there and help me bus if that's what you really think?

Fine
VOTE: zakk
but his scum flip will not gain you any points.

@Anen, Pressure =/= lynch you. I personally refused to vote you for a reason, I think you're town.

I am coming towards Short/Zakk/Plus Hood/Plus Shaizro (depends on answers).

zakk and titus are both setting me up to be the scum partner of the other, I smell a scum team

*checks in*
so zakk and titus and copper all still breathing?
ok.
*checks out*

I have to say that it really bothers me how much you seem to be avoiding voting Persivul despite claiming how much of a scum read he is.

Let it bother you. Like I said, the MOMENT any of scumreads have the largest wagon, I'll be voting them. Zakk, Persivul, TBG, Shotty, Egg/Matt are all scum. I am not risking a no lynch with town finally starting to coalesce.

I know that because I've actually been here and you haven't. I've been telling stating this for awhile. I observe the fucking patterns here.

this implies that I'm not at all confident in my reads because I'm not doing what he wants. That reading is inconsistent with the thread. I've been saying zakk, TBG, Persivul, Shotty for AGES now.

Third, this is a pity me shitstorm at the end. Ooh there's mislynch bait that town isn't going after a policy lynch, the thread is crap woah is me. It's nonsense.

Hey, what do you think of wagonning Shotty or Zakk,Copper?

Spoiler:

Spoiler tagged a spoilery Game of Thrones GIF

[zakk]

Couldn't decide if it was a bus, scum trying to find a potential other scum team, or scum on town. Fair enough, but I'm gonna leave a heavy

Finger of Suspicion: Nosferatu

for now.

VOTE: Zakk

hello scum

[zakk]

My problem with the Zakk vote is that I don't like that Shotty is on it, as I'm not really liking Shotty for town this game.

let me get this straight.

you think there's a likelihood i'm scum yet you don't want to vote me

because someone else is also voting me who you think there's a likelihood they are scum

in a large game. where a couple townies don't matter one way or the other.





yeah.
you, titus, and lowell all need to go

[zakk]

being wagoned is great tbh. gives me more of an incentive to pay attention to a game plus it makes it personal

[zakk]

that's not what i meant. but ok.

[zakk]

since you're here. why do you think shotty is scum?

what DON'T you think is scummy about lowell?

[zakk]

town reads
{

Egg

,

projectmatt

ConvergentConclusion

}
{

MagnaofIllusion

,

Aneninen

,

Expedience

alban

}
{

Liger_zero

I Am Innocent

,

Ircher

}

poor reads
{

Nosferatu**

,

copper223

,

cytheflyguy*

,

Kop

SethYazura

}
{

Nahdia

Desmond_13

}

scum reads:
{

Shaziro

heuristically_alone

,

drmyshottyizsik

}
{

Lowell*

,

Titus

}


dead:

Persivul

Robert2424

- Lynched Day 1 -

Town Neighbor

Killthestory

- Killed Night 1 -

Vanilla Townie

EspeciallyTheLies

- Killed Night 1 -

Vanilla Townie

TehBrawlGuy

- Killed Night 1 -

Vanilla Townie

[zakk]

zakk and titus are both setting me up to be the scum partner of the other, I smell a scum team

i just noticed that both shotty and titus are trying to paint me as scum with the other one

like really guys let me help you distance from each other harder

seriously zakk

you're right you did say it before
probably subliminal on my part since i read yours.

i even quoted that post in my response to titus
i feel the same way tho dude

you guys have both been doing it for days
and i just felt it today for the first time


so let's talk then

i'm town, are you?

[zakk]

Yes, I am. Why should I believe you?

there is literally no reason to trust me. but you should anyway.

as far as me being pro-town that should pretty much speak for itself. i protect the people i have town reads on and i try to lynch the people i think are scummy.

i kinda disregarded you as spam in the first few days of the game, and didn't really look back.

after i had to reshuffle things you came out pretty scummy because you're kinda hanging on the periphery, not being a heavyweight like me and titus and ETL and such, but still making a lot of posts and a lot of noise (which is something i do as scum)

[zakk]

@zakk, your longer "OMG that wasn't mindless chatter" OMGUS post looks even more like mindless chatter than the previous one did.

if this is your only response

then you can hang by the neck until dead

Not gonna happen, guy. You're going to have to NK me.

if i could i would, believe me.

[zakk]

VOTE: magna

VOTE: magna

We're through the looking glass, here, people.

lowell waited until someone else voted magna to vote him, even though he called him scum earlier.

scum points lowell.

this too

[zakk]

Titus, nope.

Drmy, zakk, and Brawl are among my strongst town reads.

Copper I lean town on.

And was Persivul the other? He's about on the same level as Copper for me.

I'd much rather lynch within

Ircher/Seth/Killthestory/Huer/Lowell

I didn't have Lowell on my hit list but in checking I agree his play has been pretty textbook scummy especially for an oldbie. Pop in every once in a while, throw shade, leave.

k here's another thing

you're right about me and Brawl. Drmy, also maybe

Persivul, was also town

Seth/Huer/Lowell you have as scum and they are currently voting me

Pls comment on this.

[zakk]

VOTE: shotty

If and when shotty flips scum, we can lynch his partner, zakk.

You are aware there's a wagon on Zakk?

I am half aware there is a wagon.

But right now I just feel that's

it's more of a pressure wagon that will probably disintegrate.

I however feel shotty Is the best wagon that will paint a picture better than zakk.

On the off chance zakk is town

then it is obviously pointing harder towards shotty but we can't afford to drop numbers over night.

bolded is relevant


1. so you're only "

half

" aware there's a wagon on me
BUT
you also are able to classify it as a "

pressure wagon that will probably disintegrate

"?

sounds like you're a bit more than half aware. scummy.


2. "on the off chance that zakk is town"

soooo you think it's likely i'm scum

but you're not voting me?

[zakk]

too many VIs

[zakk]

Also yes shotty I accept your offer

Vote: Titus

"Hey, at least she's better than trump"

I'm getting v tired of this game
V annoyed at 4 deaths and no scum flips

[zakk]

No I'm having fun it's just exhausting caring about this game so much

I'll probably post less

[zakk]

i just noticed that both shotty and titus are trying to paint me as scum with the other one

like really guys let me help you distance from each other harder

Are you saying they're both scum?

i felt that way yesterday but after talking with shotty a bit i'm not really feeling it any more

Vote Tally Table

	Anen	Cythefly	Egg	Expe	Ircher	Kop	Liger	Lowell	Magna	Nahdia	Nos	PMatt	Shaz	Shotty	Titus	Zakk
1	Kop	Ircher	Ircher	Copper	Shaz	Copper	Zakk	Zakk	Liger	Ircher	Copper	TBG	Magna	Magna	Copper	Ircher
2	TGB	Titus	Kop	KTS	Shotty	Cythefly	Persi	TBG	TBG	Copper	Kop	Cythefly	Cythefly	Ircher	Shotty	Ircher
3	Nos	TGB	KTS	Kop	Copper	KTS	No Vote	Magna	KTS	Anen	-	Kop	Persi	Titus	Cythefly	Cythefly
4	-	Persi	-	Persi	Kop	Shotty	-	Shaz	TBG	Persi	-	Anen	Persi	Ircher	TBG	ETL
5	-	Titus	-	Nahdia	Nos	-	-	Anen	Persi	Copper	-	Persi	Nos	Titus	Persi	Titus
6	-	-	-	Persi	Cythefly	-	-	Persi	-	Anen	-	Anen	Zakk	Ircher	Persi	Persi
7	-	-	-	-	TBG	-	-	Zakk	-	-	-	-	-	Kop	Zakk	KTS
8	-	-	-	-	Persi	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	Egg	-	Persi
9	-	-	-	-	Shotty	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	Zack	-	Titus
10	-	-	-	-	Shaz	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	Pers	-	Lowell
11	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	TBG	-	Titus
12	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	KTS	-	-
13	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	Titus	-	-
14	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	Zakk	-	-
15	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	Titus	-	-

i was pretty impressed, then i was like wait, this is IIoA for town cred!, then i was like oh wait look at the post after it hell yeah!, then i was like -____-

What the votes say, assuming Titus is having a bad game and being used as a battering ram to take the heat, by scum:

Anen: town getting pushed by scum.

Cythefly: bad town being spoon-fed by scum and lapping it up, or scum being very brazen under the cover of being a newbie.

Egg: see previous post, likely scum. @Titus why no early scumread on Egg?

Expe: Town not having a fun time.

Ircher: omgus or vote on the biggest wagons is the pattern that emerges here, this is such a terrible pattern you should be ashamed if you are town, and in this world you are.

Liger: town newbie.

Magna: follows Titus on Copper (whitout a vote) under the cover of clearing his PT, but then doesn't have anything to ask in said PT, follows Titus (and PM) on TBG, which is consistent with the initial hypothesis, the votes are both bad and very opportunistic.

Nahdia: Scum with Nos PM and Magna, taking advantage of Titus whom she pockets early with a town-lean. Particularly worrisome are her discarding her early Magna read for no reason (finished distancing) when Titus asked her for further names, her coordination with Nosferatu (push on me, push on Anen, Nos was likely positioning herself to go on Ircher with Nahdia as well with that stats post) and her read switch on Anen (PM also switches and the reason he gives is pretty weak, he liked a lot of Anen's early posting but now he looks weaker).

Nos: see pre-post read.

PMatt: Other than what mentioned with other players, very early town read on both Titus and Ircher (consistent with the scum strategy hypothesized here).

Shaz: new-town doing his own thing.

Shotty: In this world he is more likely duped town than scum, the emphasis on wanting to lynch Ircher/Titus with a vengeance while compromising if the game state requires it makes his reads likely genuine (and crap).

Titus: town by definition in this world.

Zakk: Like shotty his reads in this world are garbage but genuine in the way he is pushing, he also has solo votes on slots that nobody is even looking at and where is the support from his supposed teammates in that or why is he picking fights with lowell and ETL when he already is against Titus & co, more so than Shotty this here is misguided town.

then i was like... why did you skip the analysis of lowell?

Also yes shotty I accept your offer

Vote: Titus

"Hey, at least she's better than trump"

I'm getting v tired of this game
V annoyed at 4 deaths and no scum flips

What were you expecting? For scum to kill themselves?

unless you think there are 2 town vigilantes

this is a really dumb question

@Copper

What do you think of shotty and Zakk tunneling each other while avoiding voting as major wagons?

this is also

patently

untrue

dying to see you substantiate this in any way shape or form.

ready set go.

My point is why is he taking the time to defend you as well? He is trying to protect you.

We're townreads of each other. That's natural. Now, why are you trying to divert from Zakk instead of voting him if you think he's scum?

Look we are going in circles here. I think multiple people are scum, if every time I vote one of you, you say well if you think they are scum vote them, and I switch votes we will get no where.

This isn't circles. You bailed on the one most likely to get lynched. You feel Zakk/Ircher/me, you should vote the largest wagon of the three. That's Zakk.

wow titus you are a bully

this isn't even you saying "town shotty would do this, scum shotty would do that"
or even "scum-shotty who is buddies with scum-zakk should do that"

this is you telling shotty to vote me.

shotty WAS voting me, which you clearly know, but you're choosing to be ignorant, and you're trying to frame it badly to make shotty AND me look bad.

which in turn only makes YOU look bad.






no longer think titus and shotty are aligned together.

copper shifts townier for the analysis however leaving out lowell is

[zakk]

Also I love that when zakk's wagon got some legs, you switched off. Seems like you got nervous about bussing him.

I'VE BEEN TRYING TO LYNC HIM FOR 100 DAMN PAGES

you haven't been trying very hard

vote me

[zakk]

i think you know i'm gonna flip town but you know it'll make you look bad when i do

[zakk]

i think titus and shotty are on opposite scum teams

[zakk]

in which case, no, stay voting titus, and NK me ... if you can

it'll work out better for you in the long run.

[zakk]

titus needs to die

most

everyone vote titus

[zakk]

Also yes shotty I accept your offer

Vote: Titus

"Hey, at least she's better than trump"

I'm getting v tired of this game
V annoyed at 4 deaths and no scum flips

What were you expecting? For scum to kill themselves?

unless you think there are 2 town vigilantes

this is a really dumb question

The Q was rhetorical in nature, and why do you imply that there are two town vigs in this game?

this post might help you
specifically the bolded parts.

well there are three kills, which either means

2 scum teams 1 vig
2 scum teams 1 sk
1 scum team 1 sk 1 vig

i think it's unlikely anyone who was scum or SK would want to take out KTS, especially an SK. they would want him alive to draw aggro

so eliminating the 2 scum teams 1 sk option, we have:

2 scum teams 1 vig
1 scum team 1 sk 1 vig

however, since i think that TBG was seen as someone who was a wagon that existed pretty much all day, but wasn't able to be pushed through, it's possible that either an SK, "rival" scum, or a vig would want to off him, thinking he was scum, and KTS seems like a vig shot for daaammmnnnn sure

so NK analysis leaves us with:

vigilante KTS
scum/sk TBG
scum/sk ETL

i'm happy with this.

so now we need to look for multi-scum dynamics.

Spoiler: simple logic dictates that

there are two scum teams or a scum team and an SK

hence my upsetness at 100 pages without a single scum flip and yet were four down

Spoiler: bonus

since you may still not get it:
i was saying unless you think (as you appeared to, in #2525) that there's only one scum team, and no serial killer, you must therefore believe town has two separate vigilantes

karma. please smile on me today.

[zakk]

@Zakk
You're suggesting multiball with 2 town vigs?

Say what you mean rather than being ambiguous and contradictory.

[zakk]

@Zakk
Yeah IIoA, disregarding that I started posting about what I was doing and what results were coming out while in the process...

Re: IIoA

i basically said "ope, never mind, here's the analysis", so why are you taking umbrage with that?

Spoiler:

Vote Tally Table

-snip-

i was pretty impressed

then i was like wait, this is IIoA for town cred!
then i was like oh wait look at the post after it hell yeah!

then i was like -____-

What the votes say, assuming Titus is having a bad game and being used as a battering ram to take the heat, by scum:

Anen: town getting pushed by scum.

Cythefly: bad town being spoon-fed by scum and lapping it up, or scum being very brazen under the cover of being a newbie.

Egg: see previous post, likely scum. @Titus why no early scumread on Egg?

Expe: Town not having a fun time.

Ircher: omgus or vote on the biggest wagons is the pattern that emerges here, this is such a terrible pattern you should be ashamed if you are town, and in this world you are.

Liger: town newbie.

Magna: follows Titus on Copper (whitout a vote) under the cover of clearing his PT, but then doesn't have anything to ask in said PT, follows Titus (and PM) on TBG, which is consistent with the initial hypothesis, the votes are both bad and very opportunistic.

Nahdia: Scum with Nos PM and Magna, taking advantage of Titus whom she pockets early with a town-lean. Particularly worrisome are her discarding her early Magna read for no reason (finished distancing) when Titus asked her for further names, her coordination with Nosferatu (push on me, push on Anen, Nos was likely positioning herself to go on Ircher with Nahdia as well with that stats post) and her read switch on Anen (PM also switches and the reason he gives is pretty weak, he liked a lot of Anen's early posting but now he looks weaker).

Nos: see pre-post read.

PMatt: Other than what mentioned with other players, very early town read on both Titus and Ircher (consistent with the scum strategy hypothesized here).

Shaz: new-town doing his own thing.

Shotty: In this world he is more likely duped town than scum, the emphasis on wanting to lynch Ircher/Titus with a vengeance while compromising if the game state requires it makes his reads likely genuine (and crap).

Titus: town by definition in this world.

Zakk: Like shotty his reads in this world are garbage but genuine in the way he is pushing, he also has solo votes on slots that nobody is even looking at and where is the support from his supposed teammates in that or why is he picking fights with lowell and ETL when he already is against Titus & co, more so than Shotty this here is misguided town.

then i was like... why did you skip the analysis of lowell?

-----------------

I noticed after posting that I'd forgotten to write about Lowell and decided to leave it like that to see if either of you would ask me about it, the votes there make me lean town mainly cause he voted Magna.

i think you either omitted it ON PURPOSE or you didn't notice at all, and yuo're trying to cover up after the fact.

lowell is clearly not gonna ask you about it, and i would not have noticed except i wanted specifically to see what you thought of lowell camping. i might not have even noticed it at all. and i don't think you would have done anything.

scum points copper. i don't know why town would lie about this.