New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Expedience]

Hello.

[Expedience]

Laugh all you want, if he flips scum you're next.

Kill: Ircher

If you caught Ircher scum on page 1 I'll be happy to go next.

I was reading some post of this game, might have been Egg's one just above, I saw something about this post being town or something. I actually really dislike this post.

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Drmy, what were you referncing with your first post?

Vote Ircher

For posts 11 and 12. I've never liked it when people stress that votes on them are RVS. And the post before it feels nervous about being voted while trying not to convey that.

Copper, which of Ircher's posts on Page 1 gave you the "sure of himself" vibe?

Ircher's OMGUS crusade against drmy is pretty bad.

I lost brain cells reading the probability discussion on Page 3.

I've got at least some level of a town read on drmy, copper, zakk, and Magna (in that order). That's as of the end of Page 3. Will say so if that changes.

Killthestory, you said you know your alignment now. What is it?

Acknowledging that an Ircher wagon exists. I'm gonna keep my vote there.

dont be dumb. any person with half a brain would say town. stupid fucking filler question

I don't ike this post either.

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Expedience, that was probably Anen's post but can you explain why you don't like that from Copper?

I didn't notice what Titus pointed out. It was too confident and seemed more about betting on Ircher being town than the read being too early, sort of. Like he knew Ircher was town.

Ircher might be town, not sure. Shotty is surely town.

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Why can't you be of more use now?

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Ircher, kindly shut the fuck up. The more your case gets talked about, the more credence it appears to have although it's total garbage RVS. You know it. I know it. If you actually did the slightest thing scummy, I'd be all over it. You just haven't.

You realize how Copper has displayed

actual inconsistencies

and people are pushing awkard things you are saying because they don't like math. Get real.

Probably a town post.

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UNVOTE: Copper223
Don't take it seriously Copper, I'm not like those idiots that chase at you with ropes for hanging just because you're Copper.
This is getting too stupid, why can't we just get along, the adventure haven't started yet and we are already quarreling and sending death threats just because, all that preparations for nothing.

Is this guy a troll, and / or scum with copper?

[Expedience]

Expedience, that was probably Anen's post but can you explain why you don't like that from Copper?

I didn't notice what Titus pointed out. It was too confident and seemed more about betting on Ircher being town than the read being too early, sort of. Like he knew Ircher was town.

Ircher might be town, not sure. Shotty is surely town.

Why is Shotty town? He's literally been trying to find every single minor reason to scumread me.

He's fitting evidence to reads instead of reads to evidence.

Not really.

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like, would i trust his reads/observations if i felt he was town enough? probably not, but that's more a comment on my own misplaced arrogance than on his actual skill level. to be real with you, i dont know. i haven't really played in a while and i dont recognize a lot of the names on this list. the last time i played with persivul, he was scum, i caught him, he pissed me off and then i just modded games for a long while (not related to him pissing me off - i got busy with school). i think he was pretty new then? he seems different now, more mellowed out, more seasoned, and i'm sure he's learned things along the way as he's probably played more while i've been gone.

i've just rambled a bunch of irrelevant nonsense. but ihope it answers your question.

Well seeing this I think your flippant “Pers is scum because he would piss me off” Town read is nonsense then. You acknowledge that he seems more seasoned as a player. Which would include both his Scum and Town games. Yet you are happy giving him a snap Town read based on him not pissing you off. Which is based on the old Pers not the new. There’s a pretty wide disconnect there.

This kind of sucks. Feels really set up.

Townreading Persivul, slight town reading the brawl guy.

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Then, you think most of his reasons for scumreading me are perfectly valid?

???

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?????????

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@Magma
My fellow man, tis a figure of speech, though I'm sure Nostradamus truly is a beast scum hunter when he gets a town PM.

You are again comparing posts that are superficially similar in the wording but appear to come from completely different mindsets, 102 and 104 are players (BGT and KTS) saying idgaf about statistics, back to the real game please, Nosferatu took the time to examine what Ircher wrote and comment on his

ability

to do so correctly, now there are reasons why town Nos would do so as well but it is less likely compared to scum Nos doing the same thing hence the vote on him in particular.

The Nosferatu read is just nonsensically reachy.

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For Egg, my reads in order:

Town reads:
Drmy
Persivul
Titus

Weak town:
Thebrawl
Nosferatu
Lowell
Zakk
ETL

Null:
heuristically_alone
Desmond
Anen
I am innocent
Ircher
Cytheflyguy
Egg

Weak scum:
Magna
Seth
Projectmatt

Scum reads:
Killthestory
Copper

[Expedience]

The Nosferatu read is just nonsensically reachy.

The same can be said about your interpretation of my tongue-in-cheek to shotty.

So your read is nonsensically reachy?

[Expedience]

Expedience, how are you null on Ircher and myself? Why is projectmatt scum? You're townreading ETL, so I must have misunderstood what you meant when you said her discussion with Magna felt "set up" so can you clarify that? And finally, any reason you used my exact format for a reads list?

I have ambivalent feelings towards you and Ircher.

Gut tbh imo jfc idk

Set up in the sense of Magna asking questions with the intent of getting an answer that creates some tenuous contradiction to make ETL look bad.

Faster to edit on mobile.

[Expedience]

So your read is nonsensically reachy?

Every read is at the start of d1 and that was my point both with shotty and as a reply to your dismissal of my read on Nos.

This is scum trying to write off their read as "j-just rvs".

Like, you went into quite a lot of detail about how it made him scum earlier. I have a hard time believing it was not a serious push.

[Expedience]

VOTE: copper223

[Expedience]

So your read is nonsensically reachy?

Every read is at the start of d1 and that was my point both with shotty and as a reply to your dismissal of my read on Nos.

@Magma
My fellow man, tis a figure of speech, though I'm sure Nostradamus truly is a beast scum hunter when he gets a town PM.

You are again comparing posts that are superficially similar in the wording but appear to come from completely different mindsets, 102 and 104 are players (BGT and KTS) saying idgaf about statistics, back to the real game please, Nosferatu took the time to examine what Ircher wrote and comment on his

ability

to do so correctly, now there are reasons why town Nos would do so as well but it is less likely compared to scum Nos doing the same thing hence the vote on him in particular.

These posts are not consistent, that's what I'm trying to get across.

If "oh pshttt all reads are bad its just d1", then why do you keep trying to push it so hard.

[Expedience]

Pray tell where am I trying to "push it so hard"?

I was asked about that read by Magma and I explained where it came from

once

.

You're technically right, whatever, this isn't important anyway.

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Titus I suspect you and Ircher are both scum together, and of the two, you are the more dangerous. I'm happy to vote Ircher as well if it comes to that - he certainly seems like someone you've been trying to keep alive.

ircher's newbietown AF imo.

First of all, what changed your read.

Do you actually think Titus would coach her partner in broad daylight, and why can it not be that Titus is scum and Ircher is town?

I also really don't like the way 464 sounds.

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Ircher's list posts are just null, don't vote him for that. He did the same thing in the game I played with him, they were equally if not more useless and irrelevant (he made a case on confirmed scum lol).

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Expedience, 442. Can you explain your Shotty, Lowell and KillTheStory reads?

Shotty seems very town to me, like his posts are completely unfiltered. Especially in RVS he seemed genuine.

269 mostly.

Killthestory is such scum, holy shit. I actually thought about this and I want to vote him over copper. Copper is still scum but some of his posts make me slightly uneasy.

VOTE: Killthestory

96 / 98 show that he's lying about not having read his role card, although that's not necessarily alignment indicative. It does show that the careless attitude could be being faked, and I strongly believe it is.

It's easy to take someone who plays like this, posts without capital letters, at surface level and read them as town.

Drmy, what were you referncing with your first post?

Vote Ircher

For posts 11 and 12. I've never liked it when people stress that votes on them are RVS. And the post before it feels nervous about being voted while trying not to convey that.

Copper, which of Ircher's posts on Page 1 gave you the "sure of himself" vibe?

Ircher's OMGUS crusade against drmy is pretty bad.

I lost brain cells reading the probability discussion on Page 3.

I've got at least some level of a town read on drmy, copper, zakk, and Magna (in that order). That's as of the end of Page 3. Will say so if that changes.

Killthestory, you said you know your alignment now. What is it?

Acknowledging that an Ircher wagon exists. I'm gonna keep my vote there.

dont be dumb. any person with half a brain would say town. stupid fucking filler question

This post is absolutely filthy, I absolutely cannot see town saying this.

The implication is that "any

scum

with half a brain would say town". Any town would say town, with or without a brain. This might seem trivial and nitpicky, but just try to read the post again and see if it sounds right. It doesn't, at all.

The response of anger towards Egg is something which I interpret as a fake attempt to channel emotion into the game, trying to look town by just yelling at something. He keeps repeating the same argument "wtf egg what does it matter how i answer the question its null????" despite Egg's attempts at an explanation (probably exists), because he is scum.

[Expedience]

Spoiler:

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

This is scum trying to write off their read as "j-just rvs".

Like, you went into quite a lot of detail about how it made him scum earlier. I have a hard time believing it was not a serious push.

Are you scum yourself or did you just decide to tunnel me this game? Cause I never said nor implied that my read on Nos was RVS or not serious in any way and I'd like to see what made you think that's what I said.

What I did say is that with the amount of data available any read you give me at this point in the game I can show to be complete crap by changing the assumptions (and there will be quite a few) on which it is built, my read on Nos relied on IIOA being a scumtell for her when she posted what she posted.

In other news I am liking Titus less and less, Mollie told me she is a tunneler so going off on me didn't raise any serious bells, but dropping me like a stone while still keeping a scumread

and

openly discussing her town meta about being a tunneler feels unnatural for the former and makes me wonder how calculated her initial tunnel was for the latter.

I am a tunneller. You're still scum. I'll openly discuss who I am any day this week and twice on Sunday. Nice try there though scum.

This response feels fabricated

Ircher, kindly shut the fuck up. The more your case gets talked about, the more credence it appears to have although it's total garbage RVS. You know it. I know it. If you actually did the slightest thing scummy, I'd be all over it. You just haven't.

You realize how Copper has displayed

actual inconsistencies

and people are pushing awkard things you are saying because they don't like math. Get real.

Ok, Cythe, was gonna give benefit of the doubt, but your last posts changed my mind.

VOTE: Cythe

How come every time I change my vote, you follow me? I don't wanna be a double voter? Stahp it.

@Titus
So far, Ive liked your thought process plus Ive been lazy & not been doing isos.

I'm shutting up. You're standing on your own two feet.

This reeks of coaching. I take it scum don't have daytalk, eh?

VOTE: Titus

Sorry, friend. You gots ta go.

I like this post.

Highly doubt it says anything about ircher, but it is a real big tell on Titus

Also didn't like how fast she abandoned copper (who she calls scum, to his face) to jump on my cytheflyguy wagon

And now I have more meta on Titus

This is like the direct opposite of what I think.

Also I think zakk is slight scum (not from what I am saying here, before) and Egg is town, I changed my mind from the read list.

[Expedience]

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Cythefly ISO MAY 22

1. 323 - At page 11, and says will finish up -

You are to page 11 and have zero thoughts? Seriously? Lazy and scum-motivated. -

-3 Points

2. 366 - 4 hours later; "I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now" -

This is just plain awful! At least everyone else gave AT LEAST ONE reason (even if not good imo) to vote me. Also, how do you read everything & nothing at the same time? If you're town, stop being super lazy. If you are scum, stop being lazy. That was like the most lazy, scum-motivated thing you could at the time. -

-5 Points

3. 422 - Another post; literally says that this is his first macro game and so he'll just be a potato and watch the votes. Also, the AtE of lynch me, I'll be useful later -

Why not be useful right now. Like, explain your read on me (and the rest of the game) rather than just prod-dodge and take a super lazy, inactive role. This is also scum-motivated. -

-5 Points

4. 425 -

This is as bad as the previous ones..... Ugh...... -

-4 Points

Zero town motivation in those posts and like 95% scum motivation to make such posts.

Total Score: -17 points
Average Score: -4.25 (17 / 4)
Final Score: -5.25 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -1)

Pedit: Doing absolutely nothing & making "Ill help tomorrow" posts is scum-motivated cuz scum dont want to scumhunt cuz they cant.

lol

Actually I don't fucking know. Just abstain on zakk / ETL for now.

[Expedience]

which is actually fair to assume in a large cuz otherwise it will last like 10 days; there's bound to be another killing role in the game

Why are you making the assumption that 10 days is not a normal thing for LARGE games? Assume 4-5 mafia of 21 players, so 16-17 town players. Even assuming a town lynch and a town lost each day/night, a perfect scum win only requires 6-7 game days to clear town's numbers.

So... it just sounds like you are talking out of your ass here.

Spoiler: NY 195 - D1 Cythefly ISO MAY 22

1. 323 - At page 11, and says will finish up -

You are to page 11 and have zero thoughts? Seriously? Lazy and scum-motivated. -

-3 Points

2. 366 - 4 hours later; "I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now" -

This is just plain awful! At least everyone else gave AT LEAST ONE reason (even if not good imo) to vote me. Also, how do you read everything & nothing at the same time? If you're town, stop being super lazy. If you are scum, stop being lazy. That was like the most lazy, scum-motivated thing you could at the time. -

-5 Points

3. 422 - Another post; literally says that this is his first macro game and so he'll just be a potato and watch the votes. Also, the AtE of lynch me, I'll be useful later -

Why not be useful right now. Like, explain your read on me (and the rest of the game) rather than just prod-dodge and take a super lazy, inactive role. This is also scum-motivated. -

-5 Points

4. 425 -

This is as bad as the previous ones..... Ugh...... -

-4 Points

Zero town motivation in those posts and like 95% scum motivation to make such posts.

Total Score: -17 points
Average Score: -4.25 (17 / 4)
Final Score: -5.25 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -1)

Pedit: Doing absolutely nothing & making "Ill help tomorrow" posts is scum-motivated cuz scum dont want to scumhunt cuz they cant.

So, I know that I haven't had much of a presence, but did we not see seth literally claim mafia goon?

For real though, explain 174, because I actually can't parse that into anything I understand.

Copper said I will laugh hard as scum if I flip scum in my lynch, which is a contradiction, since lynching sk

as a mafia goon

early in this game is serious trouble as there will be less kills per night, giving the Town more time to correctly lynch the mafia.

upon being asked to explain "If I am scum that would be a serious problem, accidentaly lynching your own teammates or the sk, effectively reducing the kills per night in a large game will lead to your demise" he literally said he was a goon without being prompted as to his role whatsoever. Does anyone disagree with my reasoning here?

I think it makes sense actually.

Seth is saying, if was scum and copper got him lynched, Seth would be SK, and Copper would be a mafia goon. This is because he is suggesting Copper is mafia and can't tell the difference between town / sk, or just other unlogic and trying to set up some quip

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First two quotes are not meant to be there, Chrome is such trash.

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Also, I doubt scum-Ircher would go on with those hard-to read ISOs after the general dislike he got from almost everyone because of them.

What do you all think of this?

Who knows, honestly. He has no scum meta and so little self-awareness anyway.

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Shotty seems very town to me, like his posts are completely unfiltered. Especially in RVS he seemed genuine.

269 mostly.

Killthestory is such scum, holy shit. I actually thought about this and I want to vote him over copper. Copper is still scum but some of his posts make me slightly uneasy.

I still disagree with these. What does a genuine RVS look like?

Like putting yourself potentially at risk to move the game forward.

Lowell's is null.

To be fair maybe but I just like the MoI push.

As for Killthestory's 96/98 I don't think it's a tell. Either trolling or he indeed forgot to check his PM (or to read it thoroughly. Oh, how many times has this happened to me...)

so now i know my alignment

He must have known all along, unless Cakez somehow made him confirm the role PM in the 3 minute gap. It's more like he remembered that he couldn't lie about it because the role PM made you confirm your role.

Actually, I checked and Cakez was online at that time, so this could be real. I'll give him benefit of the doubt, it's not like it's relevant anyway.

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As for KillTheStory, do you still think he's the scummiest?

Yes.

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What alignment do you think he is?

[Expedience]

Seth is saying, if was scum and copper got him lynched, Seth would be SK, and Copper would be a mafia goon. This is because he is suggesting Copper is mafia and can't tell the difference between town / sk, or just other unlogic and trying to set up some quip

This is not the explanation Seth gave, it tells more about how you (want us to believe you) are reading the game.

What Seth said he meant is that lynching himself if he is goon or SK would be against his alignment (there is no direct mention of what he thinks of me), check for yourselves if that leap makes sense given the prior conversation, it does not to me.

He didn't give an explanation, did he?

It's not wrong to assume there is an sk in a large game, saying there is an sk in a large game does not make me scum. If there isn't one then this game is heavily in favor of us.

You could be meaning this, which I don't understand at all.

I also am suspicious of the part where he says (paraphrasing): I am not like the rest that want to lynch you just because you are copper; that sentence implies he knows my alignment and is factoring it in his view of the game-state.

Good point, I see this.

[Expedience]

And that means that if Seth is scum then it probably makes copper town, hm.

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Scum do not have mechanical day talk

BAM.

Titus is scum. With Ircher.

*dance*

I dont get that conclusion.

Really huh.

[Expedience]

I could've just said nothing and been able to jump on them if I wanted to. I did want to potentially vote either of them down the line. I thought it read like SvS. I still think it reads like SvS. No shit I'm going to want to vote people I think could be Scum.

Didn’t you just knock Titus in 516 as scummy for leaving her options open to jump to different lynches? Because I read this response as being exactly what you are damning Titus for.

Why do you think the early exchange is Scum versus scum? Please elaborate.

No, you misunderstand me. I don't think it's scummy to say "here are the three lynches I support". I think it's scummy to say "here are the three lynches I support, I'll be on whatever's biggest" rather than "here are the three lynches I support, and I currently prefer _____ Lynch". The former says to me that you don't have any actual scumreads, because if you did, one would naturally be the most appealing for some reason.

The whole "you're dead" thing and the stats discussion coming off each other are both pretty dumb, and the stats discussion comes from nowhere. It reads to me like they wanted to distance early D1, and after the daykill thing started to lose steam they had to come up with something else, and that spawned the stats argument. Go read the first 5 pages and tell me that Ircher/Shotty don't fit the description of two scum who decided on a hard distance gambit.

Ircher/Shotty don't fit the description of two scum who decided on a hard distance gambit

[Expedience]

What alignment do you think he is?

Who are you talking to? If I am the one you are asking, cy is town.

Why do you think he's town, you just said that he was new and that's not a reason why someone is town? I think that's what copper was asking.

He didn't give an explanation, did he?

Read post 183

I thought that was

~the post~

to start with, whatever idk/c

[Expedience]

The further this game goes on, the more I become suspicious of Killthestory/of the belief that he very well might be scum. I initially kind of read his aloofness as coming from a town place, but it looks like he's using it to coast. However, I'm only not super inclined to vote him primarily because him flipping would give us very little information, since his actual stated reads/interactions are generally pretty small.

I think you are scum with Killthestory because you feel the need to justify why you aren't voting him, discuss.

I'm also still not a fan of the Ircher wagon. I mean, yes, the strange numbered system he has is pretty weak, but I'm pretty positive that most scum would not be so bold as to consistently post a bunch of "scored" reads that only he can understand, and insist that it's very important. I think that a lot of you are confusing "weird and unexperienced play" to somehow be likely to be scum play. This is really silly, and I've seen no actual reason to suspect anything of Ircher. Adding on to that, I'm cynical about #491, because it seems like an easy way for Persivul to weasel into the bandwagon while not stating any reads of actual substance.

It's null because scum can also be weird.

This (your post) is a scumtell if Ircher is town and it makes it seem like he is, townreading someone for wifom because you know they're town. Same as what Seth just did

The thing about Persivul is fucking terrible and you are scum.

I'm becoming more sure that Zakk is town with practically almost every post. Same with EspeciallyTheLies. That said though, I think EspeciallyTheLie's accusation of Titus teaming Ircher is kind of weak.

Yes, because they're both town aren't they.

I initially put a lot of pressure on TehBrawlGuy, but I'm actually going to list him as a mild town read now, because he's held himself pretty well/he's come off as far more town than he did at the beginning of the game.

I also don't feel as strongly about Cytheflyguy being scum, because I'm now reading a lot of his posts as coming from confused town.

This is by far the best vote I can conceive of at the moment, though.

Vote: SethYazuka

I might do a full reads list later if I feel motivated.

I am slightly fazed by agreeing with your scumreads on Seth and Killthestory, but only slightly.

[Expedience]

Could see Copper as scum, tries not to combat anyone, instead chooses to want to gain their support and is running for towncred really hard. Buddies up a lot with TBG a lot too

Brawl defends Copper as well, very notable, pushes BOTH Ircher and Shotty when their whole argument thing read like TvT, not SvS. Reads Titus as scum, wrong, reads Cy as scum, got newbtown vibes from them, otherwise reads are pretty ass. Could see as scum, too

This sounds like something scum would say.

NOTICE I WON'T RESPOND TO YOU WITH CONTENT IF I'M NOT A TOWNREAD

I'm taking this as null fwiw

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YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ME SAYING I DONT CARE IF SETTING A TONE FOR MYSELF, A META, FOLLOWING IT, IT'S A GAME, OF COURSE I CARE, BUT I'M PLAYING THE WAY IM SUPPOSED TO WITH DECEPTION.

Projecting insecurity "but my meta is supposed to be unreadable!!" when ETL isn't even calling him scum.

[Expedience]

You posted that you didn't care about this game. I, rightly, gave you shit for it.

^ This

It means that the anger is faked in an attempt to look town.

ETL's insistence of arguing with me over the fundamentals of a game instead of just pushing my lynch indicates town mindset instead of scum

More WIFOM townreads,

titus is the only one announcing me as a townread so i have to blindly follow her to victory unless someone else townreads me

Pushing the joke too far, this wasn't even the original thing. Hiding behind what he thinks is his unreadability.

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I think TehBrawlGuy is town, and I don't want him lynched.

[Expedience]

Right now, Titus is attempting to move focus onto me and deliberately mislead others who might be too lazy to actually look for themselves.

You could actually show where you scumread Ircher by himself if you think my analysis is wrong.

Your view on Ircher makesno sense.

Ircher is a noob and I cannot read them well.
Ircher is newbtown as fuck.
Titus defended Ircher so they are scumbuddies.
Vote on Ircher after Egg and I highlight that there's a wagon on Ircher and your case required Ircher scum.

Then when you are pissed of at KTS, your response is to get on the wagon we are both on?

Just wtf...

Maybe they're scum together

VOTE: titus
i really don't like the way you say ircher is obv town. He is far from it, but you seem to know something I don't.

Honestly wtf is this, what does Titus seem to know that you don't?

Can you post more content, you're making me uneasy.

[Expedience]

I think you are scum with Killthestory because you feel the need to justify why you aren't voting him, discuss.

Sorry you feel that way. I have a question for you: what do you make of KilltheStory's interaction with EspeciallytheLies in the last few pages? I'm actually reading his justification for why he plays the way he does/general tone as a towntell. Why is he scum to you?

Killthestory's act is fake and scummy, I also think ETL is more town from that, still not entirely sure though.

It's null because scum can also be weird.
This (your post) is a scumtell if Ircher is town and it makes it seem like he is, townreading someone for wifom because you know they're town. Same as what Seth just did

The thing about Persivul is fucking terrible and you are scum.

Eh. I've literally townread Ircher from the very first post that I made in this game. It's not like that read is a secret. Him doing the weird points thing only adds to my townread when taken into consideration with the rest of his posting. Being weird itself is null, but taken with the context of the game, it's a townread IMO.

Anything you want

Yes, because they're both town aren't they.

Zakk and EspeciallytheLies? I'm inclined to think so![/quote]
I meant Titus and Ircher but I can see how you interpreted it like that.

You sound extremely eager to please.

[Expedience]

TBH tries to misdirect and change the wagon to heuristically_alone just right after Titus said we should gang him up.
Say no more Titus, VOTE: TehBrawlGuy.

@Seth – are you an Alt? Your statements about “new players” when your join date is this month strike me as not new-player based.

Had games of real life party mafia and 200+ games on sc2mafia before I decided to try out forum mafia.

^ probably scum

TBH tries to misdirect and change the wagon to heuristically_alone just right after Titus said we should gang him up.
Say no more Titus, VOTE: TehBrawlGuy.

@Seth – are you an Alt? Your statements about “new players” when your join date is this month strike me as not new-player based.

Had games of real life party mafia and 200+ games on sc2mafia before I decided to try out forum mafia.

Because voting on the only wagon competing with yours when you've never expressed any suspicion of me is suuuuper townie, right? Please tell me someone else sees this is shit.

^ almost surely town

[Expedience]

@Seth, what is your handle on sc2?

SilverWrath

2. 646 - Derails and defends Cythefly -

I don't like this defense, simply cuz Cythefly is just prod-dodging and/or throwing random, naked accusations at players for whatever is convenient at the time. Apathy? I would think they would help more. Newbie Town? Wouldn't be throwing naked accusations around the entire time. Apathetic Newbie Town? Possibly, but I doubt it. The defense, by association, makes you look sorta bad. -

-1 Point

[/i[/spoiler]

Sure, I won't mind if you tell me that Cy has the possibility of being scum, but Cy is a worser lynch target compared to other wagons, the reason to lynch him currently at the moment is quite lacking, we will get back to him later after we deal with more pressing matters.

This is disgusting especially in light of the earlier "cy is a newbie so not scum", he's literally lining up mislynches probably

[Expedience]

fos pers I've come full circle on him. He now looks quiet and opportunistic, compared to what I was seeing early. In fact, he reads like scum who through good fortune earned some townpoints early and has been trying to coast on it ever since. I've seen pers do more than this, and given that this is a pretty dynamic game with lots of lolcharacters, I'm suspicious why I haven't seen it here.

Because it's a large, and you're comparing to minis. I find larges overwhelming. I believe this is only my second. The previous was The Dating Game. Check it and you'll see I wasn't very active until the numbers had reduced.

Sure, larges are overwhelming, and I'll take your word on your meta. Still, when I start to receive townvibes I go guns-blazing crazy, not hide in a shell. seems a little like you're cashing out while ahead, is the point.

I see where you are coming from here but I still think Persivul is town.

I think Anen is town, maybe Copper is town, maybe. Seth is definitely scum, I really don't think 811 comes from town. And that thing that happened earlier too

i'm back


titus are you sure persivul isn't a scum lean just because he's voting you?
you seem pretty omgus-y this game, unlike what i would expect from you


not a fan of the ircher wagon at all.

not a fan of the TBG wagon at all.


ETL vs titus felt kind of contrived. they both come out looking worse to me
i don't like the nitpicky-ness, it seemed far too nitpicky on both their parts

all this battle-of-the-ego stuff is very meh, to me


titus + ircher is null
titus > copper is bad


titus is just appearing everywhere now isn't she



that's probably a towntell.

wagon on her is curious. i highly doubt titus does this as town.

not a fan of you

[Expedience]

the TBG wagon is stupid because TBG seems very town. i like that he townreads me and agrees with me, and though that's confirmation bias on my part, it's clearly correct to me. and therefore, i have no small amount of disdain for the wagon.

i highly doubt he'd suck up to me for no reason.

Is this the only reason why you're townreading TBG?

[Expedience]

killthestory, what do you think of ircher?

would you push an ETL wagon with me?

id totally push an ETL wagon

ircher is town in my b o o k o f g o d s

more like ur role pm

• drmyshottyizsik - scum. The fervor between him and titus reminds me very much of when I'm scum and want to hard distance a buddy on d1. He claims to have attacked copper, but he really never has, throwing a little bit at him in RVS and then listing him as a scum read. He talked about his incredible confidence in IrcherScum while his vote was on Titus, and he hasn't really done much other than spar with Titus and Ircher despite having 80+ posts.
  
  projectmatt - slight town. I like pretty much all of his points, and I think calling me out on what he did makes the most sense as Town; I don't see a scum motive for it.
  
  zakk - lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Ircher - scum. Don't like his interactions with Shotty or Titus, don't like his 116, or his "remember when I flip town that Shotty and Egg were the two huge activists for the lynch." in 123 His ISO analysis is "trying to look Town by posting lots of things" imo.
  
  copper223
  Egg - town. lots of good insight, clear townie line of logic
  
  SethYazura - lean scum. awful content of nonsense poetry, doesn't really comment on anything important
  
  Killthestory slight town - gut read on tone
  
  cytheflyguy - Scum. I absolutely hate the initial votes on him. They're the most textbook easy unexplained votes I've seen in a while. I was thinking it was a Scum push on a soft target, but his recent posts are really bad for reasons previously stated, and now I'm thinking some of those initial votes were Scum overreactions to his bad entrance.
  
  Aneninen- lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Titus - slight scum. I dislike his interactions with shotty/ircher as mentioned. Only a slight read, though, as his solo content is fine with the exception of 233
  
  EspeciallyTheLies - lean town. I don't recall what they are now, but he had some posts that I read town. I also read his tone town.

Last readwall from TBG.

ETL is town. You want to wagon ETL.
Ircher is scum. You don't like that wagon.
He said his thought processes match yours in this post, but that clearly isn't true now.
He has a scumread on me. You're hard townreading me.

So, where specifically are you agreeing with TBG lately?

Why ETL over TBG? I know ETL is a nonsensical poster, but I am much less certain on her bring scum.

TBG is trying to look for scum bussing each other for some weird yet town reason.

[Expedience]

the TBG wagon is stupid because TBG seems very town. i like that he townreads me and agrees with me, and though that's confirmation bias on my part, it's clearly correct to me. and therefore, i have no small amount of disdain for the wagon.

i highly doubt he'd suck up to me for no reason.

killthestory, what do you think of ircher?

would you push an ETL wagon with me?

id totally push an ETL wagon

ircher is town in my b o o k o f g o d s

• drmyshottyizsik - scum. The fervor between him and titus reminds me very much of when I'm scum and want to hard distance a buddy on d1. He claims to have attacked copper, but he really never has, throwing a little bit at him in RVS and then listing him as a scum read. He talked about his incredible confidence in IrcherScum while his vote was on Titus, and he hasn't really done much other than spar with Titus and Ircher despite having 80+ posts.
  
  projectmatt - slight town. I like pretty much all of his points, and I think calling me out on what he did makes the most sense as Town; I don't see a scum motive for it.
  
  zakk - lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Ircher - scum. Don't like his interactions with Shotty or Titus, don't like his 116, or his "remember when I flip town that Shotty and Egg were the two huge activists for the lynch." in 123 His ISO analysis is "trying to look Town by posting lots of things" imo.
  
  copper223
  Egg - town. lots of good insight, clear townie line of logic
  
  SethYazura - lean scum. awful content of nonsense poetry, doesn't really comment on anything important
  
  Killthestory slight town - gut read on tone
  
  cytheflyguy - Scum. I absolutely hate the initial votes on him. They're the most textbook easy unexplained votes I've seen in a while. I was thinking it was a Scum push on a soft target, but his recent posts are really bad for reasons previously stated, and now I'm thinking some of those initial votes were Scum overreactions to his bad entrance.
  
  Aneninen- lean town. thought processes match my own and seem internally consistent
  
  Titus - slight scum. I dislike his interactions with shotty/ircher as mentioned. Only a slight read, though, as his solo content is fine with the exception of 233
  
  EspeciallyTheLies - lean town. I don't recall what they are now, but he had some posts that I read town. I also read his tone town.

Last readwall from TBG.

ETL is town. You want to wagon ETL.
Ircher is scum. You don't like that wagon.
He said his thought processes match yours in this post, but that clearly isn't true now.
He has a scumread on me. You're hard townreading me.

So, where specifically are you agreeing with TBG lately?

Why ETL over TBG? I know ETL is a nonsensical poster, but I am much less certain on her bring scum.

I think TehBrawlGuy is town because he sounds like he believes what he says, even if it might not make that much sense. Especially posts like 804 and 812.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Seth

Post later, probably

[Expedience]

sorry that u flipped scum, matt my friend good vote tho. thank u for bussing.

What don't you like about the post?

Yet you voted for Ircher in your fist post!
How does that add up?!

Yeah. Whatever.
But you still haven't explained your way of thinking, as for Ircher's readlist.

im not explaining this to u. maybe one of ur scummates in the scum PT can explain it.

Good.

Scum do not have mechanical day talk. That's as much as I'll say on that.

Thanks for telling us that scums have an Encryptor. Is it you?

these two posts. i seriously cannot fathom them coming from a town player. i just can't.

I can fathom those posts coming from a town player. I think you are being mechanically stubborn, this is just the Amen-nine way.

[Expedience]

I think h_a is town so [my reads / this town] must be kinda fucked

[Expedience]

What is that supposed to imply

[Expedience]

[dramatic yet unsuitable v]projectmatt[/dramatic yet unsuitable v]

[Expedience]

We could lynch the slot?

I don't think that they can be force replaced because the point of the ban is that it's only joining new games, it doesn't cover that.

[Expedience]

Indeed, it seems that all you care about is being townread.

[Expedience]

I strongly feel like Nahdia is scum.

Maybe I'll vote ETL, I'll read the ISO again because from memory there were some things that I didn't like and other things that I liked. It would be better than like, most of the other wagons probably.

[Expedience]

I'm going to wait to cast my vote, as I don't feel very comfortable with any of the wagons.

i didn't want you to be scum matt. but you are.

This is disgusting, just like Nahdia's post saying the same thing. Nahdia's post is more disgusting though.

She keeps talking about how wagons are bad / unjustified and saying that scum are there without singling out specific votes, which is bad

tbg is scum. lotta words with zero actual content. he never explains why he thinks what he thinks beyond "it didn't sit right with me".

VOTE: tbg

I think this vote is bad.

Actually I think ETL is scum from this. She keeps making these too-confident posts about things, like "oh sorry ur scum", and I don't think she really believes them because there is no consistency. So many people she's called scum at this point: Shotty, projectmatt, TBG, Titus.

She just picks up a strong read and runs with is really fast for a few posts before dropping it again.

An example of this is the inconsistent stance on Ircher. I think she is scum not putting in effort to ensure consistency, just making glib pushes which could sound town on surface level.

I still don't properly understand what MoI was saying before though, his posts are too thoughtful about small things.

Also, 239 reminded me of this piece of Anenien's wiki page.

I think all of the argument with Killthestory is null on either side, maybe. It could mean anything.

Three, blackmailing the players who are trying to read you by saying you refuse to participate unless they townread you is, well, fucking stupid and you need to grow the hell up.

Titus made a good question / implied point about how this means that Killthestory is town, saying that this is basically "oh why are you so shit at being town" rather than coming to the far more natural conclusion that it is a scum tactic.

Its.

Fucking.

Null.

If he flips town, it tells me fucking nothing.
If he flips scum, it tells me fucking nothing.

All it tells me, is that the people on his wagon, are a bunch of lazy motherfuckers, or scum, or both.

The cy wagon is literally the dumbest sheep bullshit I have ever seen and unless he actually gets his ass back in here and gives me a reason to give a damn about him, I'm going to continue to think that the people voting for him are, like I said, lazy as fuck or fucking scum hopping on low hanging fruit.

This feels really town, however.

After reading stuff properly I understand Titus' posts better.

On one level I feel like it should just be "obnoxious = town" though. This hasn't really been conclusive.

[Expedience]

It's just another word for scummy but it sounds more convincing.

It's not policy lynching Seth, I think he's scum. It was a feeble attempt to get more voters.

I'm still not sure to vote, but knowing who I won't vote is a start? Not really.

TehBrawlGuy (5) - Titus, MagnaOfIllusion, SethYazura, Aneninen, Ircher
Aneninen (3) - Nahdia, Lowell, projectmatt
Titus (2) - EspeciallyTheLies, cytheflyguy
SethYazura (2) - Nosferatu, Expedience
EspeciallyTheLies (2) - Persivul, zakk
heuristically_alone (1) - TehBrawlGuy
Ircher (1) - Egg
Killthestory (1) - I Am Innocent
cytheflyguy (1) - heuristically_alone
zakk (1) - Killthestory
MagnaOfIllusion (1) - copper223
Egg (1) - drmyshottyiszik

I updated the vote count, not much better. Also, wtf is shotty doing voting Egg honestly.

I feel like my vote is in the best place it can be currently, and that is upsetting.

[Expedience]

I think Persivul is scum in the neighborhood.

[Expedience]

got home today. started catching up until page 52 or whatever. it's amazing how suddenly I've become the deadline compromise lynch when it's pretty obvious scum have been trying to drum that up for the last 30 pages.

I'm a vanilla townie. better than lynching something useful at least. good luck. have fun. bye.

also anen is scum. he slipped but I'm mobile so find it yourself.

I don't like this.

Still you're throwing accusations wildly at more people than could possibly be scum.

Anenien clearly didn't slip and it makes me think that this is scum paranoia afraid of being lynched so immediately claiming, and mentioning an obviously bs "scumslip" to try and start a quick counterwagon.

[Expedience]

also anen is scum. he slipped but I'm mobile so find it yourself.

Yeah, because supposed scum slips are just such an accurate way of finding scum.

I feel like I'm missing something here

I also think that Nosferatu's post on the next page with the image of a chainsaw is scummy, how he just comes out of nowhere with a clear agenda.

[Expedience]

Nahdia has never explained WHY that post from me was that scummy. She has also refused to give me proper answers. Noone seemed to have bat an eye.

I batted an eye, actually I didn't because I don't remember this. But when Nahdia didn't give a proper response to Copper's good question about Seth's position on cytheflyguy, it really looked to me like she was shrugging it off because she didn't have a good answer manufactured beforehand.

[Expedience]

I'll try to be more useful later. Don't vote anen or TBG or Titus, bye

[Expedience]

And the bolded, which you are floating as what scum would do, is exactly what you've done most of the day ... minimize your interactions to miminize associations.

Floating is a good way to describe it but I don't think it means he's actively trying to minimize associations. It's just harder to be engaged as scum.

I was townreading Persivul before, what made me rethink the read was him asking people to vote him. That seemed to me like a scum WIFOM play about making himself look tough and unafraid of votes.

guys copper is the scum in the hood ok solved glad we got that sorted out.

Also, lol.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Persivul

nice trajectory

TBG's posts on this page are town because he's super indignant. Persivul is just caving in to the pressure and asking to be voted because he thinks it looks town.

[Expedience]

Town:
Titus
Aneninen
Liger_Zero

Weak town:
TehBrawlGuy
EspeciallyTheLies
Lowell
Egg
copper223
zakk
MagnaofIllusion
heuristically_alone

Null:
cytheflyguy
Ircher
drmyshottyizsik

Weak scum:
SethYazura
Killthestory
projectmatt
Nosferatu

Scum:
Nahdia
Persivul

[Expedience]

THE ONE TRUE TRAJECTORY

[Expedience]

I'll hammer if I gotta. copper is scum over Persivul tho and TBG is aight by me.

Avoiding giving read on Persivul

[Expedience]

I don't know that KTS is scum. Not to say he can't be, just that I haven't come across any damning evidence yet.

So what alignment do you think he is?

"I don't know whether or not they are not scum" isn't enlightening at all, and I don't know why you worded it like that.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Nahdia
UNVOTE: Nahdia
VOTE: Persivul

[Expedience]

Everyone is a neighbor, Persivul, unless you live on a park bench or something. What's your role, though?

VIG NAHDIA REGARDLESS OF FLIP

[Expedience]

Are you going to selfhammer?

[Expedience]

also anen is scum. he slipped but I'm mobile so find it yourself.

Yeah, because supposed scum slips are just such an accurate way of finding scum.

I feel like I'm missing something here

I also think that Nosferatu's post on the next page with the image of a chainsaw is scummy, how he just comes out of nowhere with a clear agenda.

that's kind of shitty. If I'm not posting, any post I make is out of nowhere. Explain why finally posting in thread with a proper relevant opinion is "a clear agenda"?

No, that's incredibly fallacious. "a clear agenda" is not "finally posting in thread with a proper relevant opinion". This is a scum response to strawman the case against you. This is a clear agenda:
"oh hm idk haven't really read the thread but i agree with this one post a bit"
[other person accuses the person who wrote that post]
"LOL NICE CHAINSAW XD SCUMTEAM FOUND"

[Expedience]

Of course not. The wagon is the main point of the exercise. When I did reads at L-3, I figured one scum would be in the final 3.

Why did you do the unvote/vote? WHy did you want to strategically change your position in the final VC?

Nevermind, you're still scum.

[Expedience]

You don't believe that you're obvious town, because you are at L-2. Therefore, you are scum spamming rhetoric and Nahdia is in fact just town who is wrong about you.

[Expedience]

What is there to gain from a KTS lynch? KTS will likely take care of himself in time; why waste a lynch there if it can be avoided?

???

[Expedience]

UNVIG: Nahdia

VIG: Killthestory

Hammer Persivul.

[Expedience]

v\k n a i

???

[Expedience]

Vote Persivul now.

[Expedience]

Shotty, how sure are you that Persivul is town?

[Expedience]

It ain't so COUNTERWAGONS DON'T EXIST THERE IS ONLY PERSIVUL

[Expedience]

You haven't named any of the scum pushing these counterwagons while Persivul is at L-1, probably because it doesn't work like that, it never does apparently.

[Expedience]

Shotty's stances are so inconsistent that I would like him to reaffirm thaf he stands by 2231 when he answers my question.

[Expedience]

Exactly, copper. Why are you trying to avoid voting Persivul, Nosferatu?

[Expedience]

Exactly. Nosferatu really needs to supply us with some answers.

[Expedience]

Sometimes a photograph has it special magic when all the elements align

[Expedience]

brb

[Expedience]

brb

could you claim that hood you slipped way back when? It's bothering me now.

You're either dumb or scum pretending to be dumb.

[Expedience]

i just noticed that both shotty and titus are trying to paint me as scum with the other one

like really guys let me help you distance from each other harder

Are you saying they're both scum?

[Expedience]

VOTE: shotty

If and when shotty flips scum, we can lynch his partner, zakk.

This narrative is fucking abhorrent and you absolutely cannot believe this.

Shaziro and Titus are different.

VOTE: Kop

[Expedience]

Couldn't decide if it was a bus, scum trying to find a potential other scum team, or scum on town. Fair enough, but I'm gonna leave a heavy

Finger of Suspicion: Nosferatu

for now.

VOTE: Zakk

hello scum

The guy underneath him? This guy is just new and impressionable to believe what titus said, might be scum regardless

[Expedience]

Couldn't decide if it was a bus, scum trying to find a potential other scum team, or scum on town. Fair enough, but I'm gonna leave a heavy

Finger of Suspicion: Nosferatu

for now.

VOTE: Zakk

hello scum

Yes, this is good, vote Kop instead of zakk. I don't know what zakk is honestly but he's not as likely to be scum.

[Expedience]

Tiny is subjective. I can read that perfectly fine and I'm phoneposting.

[Expedience]

You probably just have bad eyesight.

[Expedience]

I actually decided at the last minute that I didn't want Nahdia vigged but I'm really not sure about that, she's still posting like scum ugh.

[Expedience]

I read the ISOs of all three of the neighbors and it made me think that copper was more town, MoI was most likely to be scum, and Liger was less town than I previously thought.

[Expedience]

I'm very sorry for being useless, I hope I can help when I get time later but my hold on this game is slipping.

[Expedience]

I did. First you tried to avoid answering by shouting "SCUM BUDDY", then you gave an answer with no explanation, then at being pushed even more you tried to just argue that the modifier makes it more likely to be scum. That is very much you avoiding giving an answer, when it takes you that long to give one to a fairly simple question, and could easily be you trying to think up a reason while you stall.

He's voting the same person as you so what's the problem?

[Expedience]

hey the kop wagon is actually happening. I'm a trend-setter. You're welcome, world.

Kop (6) - Expedience, Lowell, Ircher, MagnaOfIllusion, Nosferatu, Aneninen

Likely scum pushed wagon

projectmatt (2) - cytheflyguy, copper223

Likely reason why the Kop wagon picked up steam now and not yesterday when it made a bunch more sense.

Titus (2) - zakk, drmyshottyizsik
zakk (2) - Titus, Shaziro

Likely town screwing up and cross OMGUSING each other.

copper223 (1) - Nahdia
Aneninen (1) - projectmatt

Likely scum waiting to see where the wind blows before moving from old wagons.

Not voting (1) - Egg

this is here to signal wtf are you doing.

Try to remember this snapshot of the game-state if I flip and/or if the players I am scum reading start flipping as expected.

VOTE: matt

I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though

I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.

purple

= what Lowell wants people to see as his reason for switching his vote

blue

= what i see.



lowell is scum.

I do not agree with you, Lowell learnt what a Commuter is in between his posts.

[Expedience]

Nahdia, can you please claim if you are power role or not?

[Expedience]

We should still lynch Kop, his claim is basically [generic uncommon pr that probably won't get cced]

[Expedience]

Nahdia, can you please claim if you are power role or not?

ACtually don't do this, I don't know why I said that.

[Expedience]

Titus (2) - zakk, drmyshottyizsik
zakk (2) - Titus, Shaziro

Likely town screwing up and cross OMGUSING each other.

copper223 (1) - Nahdia
Aneninen (1) - projectmatt

Likely scum waiting to see where the wind blows before moving from old wagons.

Not voting (1) - Egg

this is here to signal wtf are you doing.

Try to remember this snapshot of the game-state if I flip and/or if the players I am scum reading start flipping as expected.

I really agree with this part of the post at least.

[Expedience]

zakk, I hate the direction you are pushing in but the way you're doing it sounds vaguely town.

-

Is it normal for you as town to come to these immediate, disagreeable, and severe conclusions

[Expedience]

Well played zakk.

I probably would've voted Egg too if I was in that position.