Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[Titus]

Oh we're on. Thought it was night lol.

Hi guys.

[Titus]

[Unvotr][/unvote]

[Titus]

UNVOTE: mhsmith0

[Titus]

@mhsmith0 we're going multi personality disorder.

@IV, If you're asking for me to make sense, you gotta be desperate.

[Titus]

Nulltown: Kappy, InnocentVillager
Null: Alexcellent, Smv, KickAssAndGiggle, Shotty, Alpaca
Nullscum: Music And Mail

These are incredibly weak.

VOTE: InnocentVillager

All my reads are practically null. You are a miniscule townread but I believe pressure is the key to escaping RVS. The read is too weak to matter much.

Voting a nulltown read?

[Titus]

ok so mm and iv scum team, this was easy

Ewwww

[Titus]

Oh, but I fucking dare.

Never lynching this.

[Titus]

This is one long twilight

This should get pressure.

[Titus]

Alpaca, can I get some reads from you? You haven't really given any so far and it's hard to explain but I just kinda feel like you're holding back a bit.

-- Mail

Town points.

[Titus]

So I am scum because I made a set of neutral statements that I specifically stated where not neutral statements later in the game?

Because only scum don't know the roles in an open, to busy being scum to check.

This is crap.

[Titus]

Ranger can we just lynch M&M?

We can.
But I'm deathly afraid of the potential gamestate of if I'm wrong on them being scum.

Can you show me where this fear manifested before this game? Never seen it.

[Titus]

BTD towntold after my scumshitting but everything else just reeks scum

Fuck

Where did this happen?

[Titus]

Trying to lynch Alpaca for not posting when literally no one is providing content is nice.

This slot is really invested in protecting that slot.

[Titus]

No townie WANTS to get lynched.

This is true.
It is also not relevant.

Actually false.

[Titus]

VOTE: BTDMaker

A bit paranoid of Ranger+Music but BTD voting a townread...yuck

[Titus]

Oh

[Titus]

It could also be scum to lazy to read the game, but you're right we should chalk it up to NAI for now.

Yeah, that dog don't hunt.

[Titus]

smith sadly I think the real problem is not that it was a dirty lynch, but kind a lazy one.

which again would, I think, get to "who here should have known better?"

I also think that IV looked like a player putting real effort into engaging w the board and trying to game solve, and then a bit of a lazy/careless mis speak (the tvs thing) got twisted into some kind of scum slip.

I also suspect that Rangers hop onto IV was more motivated by "I'm in some danger and I'm not winning my fight w m&m" than it was a true read of IV. I think town!ranger makes more of an effort to get m&m lynched in that spot rather than wandering off onto IV for what read to me as pretty unconvincing reasons.

Not to mention the whole "yes you can lynch me for being wrong on IV" bit that suddenly turned into an OMGUS on me right as soon as there was an active and non lazy push on her (I.e. A push that might actually result in a lynch of her spot given that an actual case was being made and pushed). Like, normally I'd think the town response would be to be suspicious of anyone more or less just going along w the idea of a ranger lynch, as opposed to being suspicious of someone who votes her for an actual alignment read reason. The whole thing reads as manipulative to me, and I don't see the town reason for such manipulation.

Now, I'll admit I don't have all that much meta w her, but between her reputation as a good scum hunter and her (IMO) both incorrect and sketchy push on m&m/IV on day 1, and her incorrect and OMGUS-y push on me day two, at some point I feel pretty comfortable thinking that this probably just isn't town!ranger.

I can see that by ranger

[Titus]

I was referring to this bring scum ranger lol open 627

[Titus]

I wanna rope BTD and Ranger though

Why Alex?

[Titus]

Hey, I am on the biggest wagon.

[Titus]

Ranger, when we were buddies, kept me in votable places but never voted me.

[Titus]

@Mafioso, if you were so concerned, why not vote BTD? You hard townreading him?

[Titus]

Prod dodge not feeling well. Across all games.

[Titus]

Where was this Alpaca earlier?

[Titus]

My bad. Was I'll.

*waits on replacements*

[Titus]

Game needs heads.

[Titus]

Game still needs heads.

UNVOTE: BTD

Trying in this is a town tell.

[Titus]

if no actions are made by a mod in 24 hours, I am PMing a documented backup mod or a list mod.

[Titus]

Someone asked why I thought ranger could be scum. See open 627.

[Titus]

Hi guys

Who is scum

Da lurkers I think...

[Titus]

Holy crap. Shit ton walls. Will read later.

[Titus]

Count me as hammer.

I'm going to be distracted because my mother in law was admitted to the hospital.

[Titus]

Before deadline. I don't think my schedule changes. I am just of the mindset that my reads would be altered if I had formed them. Best to trust the group ATM.

[Titus]

Just that. It's not a great thing because gut but it's ok for Day 1.

[Titus]

DGB, I stopped reading massive sub ins ages ago, regardless of alignment.

[Titus]

I'm sloppy for NAI reasons. I have not read half of what y'all have said due to personal issues.

How log is deadline? Is my vote needed somewhere?

[Titus]

Ok, will try to be more help tomorrow.

[Titus]

I think we should lynch in {Titus, Alpaca, Xkfyu, Smith}

That lynch pool is terrible.

[Titus]

Well, I won't be voting DGB, Panther, BTD, or Ranger for the rest of the day. So, that only leaves Alpaca, smith, and Titus.

I don't have any problems with smith's posts, so it's really down to Alpaca and Titus, for me, today.

Panther's point about Alex is good, and I didn't see anything from Touka, or Titus that impressed me. So, I think that slot is a good lynch.

VOTE: Titus

Why is there no DGB comment in here?

[Titus]

Vote count 2.11

mhsmith0 - (2) Ranger, BTD6_maker
BTD6_maker - (2) PantherPunt, Town Mafioso
Ranger - (2) mhsmith0, DrippingGoofball

Not Voting - (2) AlpacaAlpaca, Titus

With 8 eligible to vote, is takes 5 to lynch.

Still seeking replacement for Town Mafioso.

Votecount updated to reflect replacements.

Playerlist in the fist post has been updated as well.

Corrected VC

Most likely there's a scum in here or scum are off these wagons entirely.

[Titus]

Wait, scum cannot be off the wagons entirely. Doh! So we're probably looking at every wagon being unaligned pairs.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ranger

Going w this. For now.

[Titus]

Wait, scum cannot be off the wagons entirely. Doh! So we're probably looking at every wagon being unaligned pairs.

1) why can't alpaca be the scum off wagon FYPOV? Or did you just mean that both wolves couldn't be off wagon?

2) while both wolves together seems less likely, is there a particular reason to discount the possibility here?

3) in your opinion, which wagon of
mhsmith0 - (2) Ranger, BTD6_maker
BTD6_maker - (2) PantherPunt, Town Mafioso
Ranger - (2) mhsmith0, DrippingGoofball
Is likeliest to have no wolves on it and why?

1)Both wolves cannot be off, as I am town.
2)Yes, because one of the town wagons takes off. Scum are likely split 50/50 to encourage a wagon to grow.
3) BTD6 by recent posting. The 1 v 1 between Ranger and you would explain the vote switch.

Mhsmith or Ranger should eat rope today.

[Titus]

side note that Titus's lack of presence is concerning. I'd say the thread has a dadv feel except the whole game has been dead so it's hard to say the wolves are just happy with the direction of day and hanging back. half of the living players have made count-on-one-hand posts since I replaced in

I've had RL concerns. Stepping it up now. My mother in law was admitted to the hospital and I run my own business.

[Titus]

Take care Titus

is mhsmith town?

I thought so but I'm reconsidering with the wagon data now that I'm getting into this.

[Titus]

It's more one or the other but not likely both in the VCs. It's just eyeball guesswork but I need to do something to get invested.

[Titus]

Ranger/you/BTD

[Titus]

One of the three two banger wagons would likely be scum. The splits just seem unnatural.

[Titus]

One of the players wagoned is likely a wolf.

[Titus]

We have about 13 hours until deadline. If you believe Ranger is town, defend her and case an alternative. If you are not sure Ranger is town, you should be voting her. Ranger should claim immediately.

[Titus]

I'm not going to slap on an l-1 before an official claim from ranger in case someone lol hammers using the deadline as an excuse.

Also what's your dgb read?

Read my last post.

[Titus]

Why are you fine with me not answering your question on DGB, strongly implying we should switch over to another wagon, yet making zero effort to defend Ranger or pursue another wagon based on your own beliefs?

[Titus]

I could vote smith for that post alone

That's also viable

I don't care for DGB lynch.

I'm voting the largest wagon of the people I care to see lynched ATM.

If you feel strongly about Ranger town, then maybe case or move somewhere. Right now, your vote is doing nothing.

[Titus]

Fun facts:

- Alpaca was posting on this site sporadically today, chose not to check into this thread AT ALL today
- Panther was on this thread earlier today, and vanished when deadline hit
- Ranger/Xkfyu weren't on site anywhere today (though were Friday).

This is like the super example of what happens when towns stop giving a crap and ignore the thread around deadline. I'd love it if it was exactly a Panther/Alpaca team, because then at least I could say "good job wolves". Doubt that's the pair exactly though.

I just want to point out before I take my last shower in the next two weeks LOL surgeon's orders, that the above post is town and I will suffer no argument to the contrary.

We're going to have problems. I found that post scummy as shit.

[Titus]

I hope your surgery goes well.

[Titus]

We're going to have problems. I found that post scummy as shit.

Why?

Mhsmith did everything in their power to ensure a no lynch yesterday. They doubtcasted the largest wagon without rallying for a new one and switched at the last moment. Then, he makes a big post about "look at everyone but me off the wagon" when it failed to go through.

Mhsmith looks like scum who wanted to be off the wagon for towncred but did not want to get caught posting elsewhere so he had to vote Ranger.

[Titus]

VOTE: Mhsmith

You have a right to call people out? Why are you so sure that you're calling out town? Second, this post screams caught for wrong reasons.

Tell me, who is scum right now.

[Titus]

So Panther is actually your partner. Good to know.

You seem to be more outraged about why I am scumreading you rather than scumhunting me or solving here.

[Titus]

How so? Admittedly, your reasons are bad, but how is this more than "I'm accusing you but I admit my reasons suck"? Walk me through how it "SCREAMS caught for the wrong reasons"?

You don't read this as an attempt to get information out of you?

Getting information =\= scumhunting.

[Titus]

Also walk me through the idea that Panther is my buddy. Where does that conclusion come from?

EoD, Pather says he is down to flashwagon you. He never votes you and keeps his vote on DGB.
You end the day saying Panther/alpaca but not both.
Today rolls around, you're suddenly leaning town on Panther with no thoughts between the two.

Inconsistency is acceptable, but this is just distancing.

[Titus]

How so? Admittedly, your reasons are bad, but how is this more than "I'm accusing you but I admit my reasons suck"? Walk me through how it "SCREAMS caught for the wrong reasons"?

You don't read this as an attempt to get information out of you?

Getting information =\= scumhunting.

You don't think that getting information on people's reads and where they come from is scum-hunting?

You're flailing, looking for something to attack. Scumhunting focuses more on the why than the minuatie. You're focus more on discrediting that you're caught than my reads as a whole.

[Titus]

flailing, looking for something to attack. Scumhunting focuses more on the why than the minuatie. You're focus more on discrediting that you're caught than my reads as a whole.

How is my emphasis on finding stuff to attack as opposed to trying to understand where you're coming from?

Because you're not using this to sort my alignment and because you've never seen The Heat. Great movie. :-p

[Titus]

Because it's pretty transparent you are not trying to sort me.

[Titus]

I did.

Your questions were why me?
My response. Fry you.

We had a more intellectual version of that.

Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to wash my car in the rain.

[Titus]

Of course, this looks scummy even if Ranger is Town but it's even scummier if Ranger is scum.

You know.
We literally

just

discussed this in Stack The Deck.

"Player X looks like scum because of this interaction with player Y, who is scum either way, vote player X".
That's exactly what you're doing here by voting me instead of mhsmith.

How long ago was that?

[Titus]

Hey Panther. Hiii.

[Titus]

Hey Panther. Hiii.

Did you just figure out I'm in the game

I am accusing you of being mhsmith's scumbuddy, so if I just found out you were in the game, that would be some disassociative tendencies.

[Titus]

Guys

I'm really groggy from painkilers

Don't lynch mhsmith

Mkay? 4 serious

Find someone else to lycnh
VOTE: Alpaca

I'll be back in a couple of days

Is that mhsmith or Panther? I am going to cry.

[Titus]

@mhsmith, I'm not using meta to read you. So *farts* to your question.

[Titus]

Let's lynch Alpaca

I'm crying over here. I don't wanna lynch Alpaca.

[Titus]

Let's lynch Alpaca

I'm crying over here. I don't wanna lynch Alpaca.

Who else then?

I'm listening.

mhsmith0 or Panther is who I want to rope. Really mhsmith0 though. His EoD yesterday was terrible.

[Titus]

@DGB/Ranger, can you both get along? A wagon with the three of us on it would be awesome.

[Titus]

@DGB/Ranger, can you both get along? A wagon with the three of us on it would be awesome.

This sounds like you're reading them both as town. Town reads specific to them, or is it just others have moved higher on the suspect list? I'm especially curious about Ranger; if you're town reading her currently, what changed from D2?

I am.

You changed.

@Ranger, each one of you will only vote one of my two scumreads, which makes it hard to work with the both of you.

[Titus]

How did I get prodded here?

Why is Mhsmith not dead?

[Titus]

Rangers play on d2 onward has, IMO, unambiguously been focused inward, with substantive discussion focused primarily on herself and relating either directly to defense or to pushing people pushing her (and the day one IV push was, if you recall, also against someone pushing on her). You'll notice, if you care to, a lack of substance behind many if her reads, even when questioned. You'll notice, if you care to, a persistent lack of

I like this

Ranger's been the main focus of the thread because she wasn't lynched day 2. Of course Ranger is going to focus on that. Mhsmith attempting to paint that as scummy is scummy.

That's like a guy at L-1 asking why. It's null.

Why me but this other guy is worse = fry em.

[Titus]

No death?

Someone knows something. Please leave hints.

I have surgery tomorrow so I won't be active the next couple of days but don't worry I am not forgetting about you all.

Sorry guys I got confused and thought I'd been NK'd in this game.

DGB, what's up with your vote on Panther?

Did Panther claim doctor? What's wrong with my vote?

especially when this was posted hours ago.

we go from: knows nothing about the setup and has actively projected as much, multiple times
to: knowing the one and only PR in the game

does not compute. feels like feigned derps. want to lynch with impudence

This is stretching and fucking terrible. Doctor is a common PR and not lynched like ever.

[Titus]

No death?

Someone knows something. Please leave hints.

I have surgery tomorrow so I won't be active the next couple of days but don't worry I am not forgetting about you all.

This new knowledge invalidates this post

And everything I said about mhsmith

NVM

We could still use your vote to put mhsmith at L-1.

[Titus]

This game has tree-stumps!

COOL

I love to drive people nuts after I'm NK'd

Stumpage only applies to VTs who are lynched I believe.

[Titus]

Unvote.

If DGB and and Titus wanted to convince me mhsmith was town.

They may have done so with their posting.

Holy fuck. Can we just get a wagon on scum and stay there? Why does vote parking obvious scum convince you they are town?

[Titus]

Theory, spamming, and self-doubt.

Call me when we want to lynch mafia.

I'm only voting mhsmith0 or Panther unless to avoid a no lynch.

[Titus]

Well, there goes any last paranoia I had on DGB.

Smith, how did your actions equal false cover? Occam's razor says rolefish.

[Titus]

Yes. My point is why should that be believed? We know PR cover is a thing. Doesn't mean you were doing it.

Just in case my last post was not clear, I did not see any crumb.

[Titus]

So, right now, doing the math: if we lynch, we go to 7 alive.
Worst case, if scum have doused 2 already, we get 5 tomorrow if they ignite, or 7 tomorrow with 3 successfully doused most likely.
If we lynch again, to 6, and they ignite, down to 3.

So, worst case scenario, I think we have two mislynches as of this moment. (Best case is obviously more than two.)

Meaning, I really think {mhsmith, Titus} should be solved today, and that means I really think we should lynch one. (Namely, mhsmith who has the votes.) If they flip town, lynch the other. But I want to hear from PantherPunt first on this.

Ewwww...I highly doubt I am wrong, but if I am this chaining lynches is some scummy shit.

[Titus]

But they're so complicated and tedious questions LOL

Here's the simple version.

You townread smith.
You learned what the setup is and then that negated your townread on smith.
Why?

The question answers itself.

1) dgb was protective, protected me last night, based her read on the resulting no kill, then backed off upon bothering to read the setup
2) dgb was pretending to be the protective (either for PR cover as town or for various potential reasons as wolf).

No other answer here is reasonable. Paying attention and exhibiting critical thinking makes it obvious, even without the other hints. No hindsight is needed. Part of my frustration with this town is the strange lack of these things, and I suppose this incident is just another example if it.

My way is the only town way of thinking is just all around bad play.

[Titus]

Hey, if you're town, your attitude is part of the problem. If you dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as simpletons or lazy, no one wants to work with you. People process things in different ways.

DGB's mistake could have been she didn't understand how trees worked, throwing PR cover or something else entirely. We didn't know at the time.

So how's about treating us like we're equals and engaging reads rather than peacocking about how you outed our PR.

[Titus]

Ouch and then you go insulting my scumgame when I am widely regarded as one of the best scum players. At least you seem to be clueless.

Ranger just displayed a big red flag of being scum if you are town mhsmith. Since you're so much better than me, I bet you already know right?

[Titus]

I really just don't think that Smith is scum here.

Awesome; why?

I'd really like people to substantiate reads on people as much as they can. This would be a helpful spot for it tbh.

It's really just the game state of the entire day. I mean, your posts don't come off as scummy to me, but they don't scream town to me either.

Basically, I'm never voting DGB, Panther, or Ranger in this game, which makes my lynch pool Alpaca, BTD, Titus, and you, and I'd say you have probably been the most townie out that bunch.

Not only that, but you have been the only real lynch candidate for today and the fact that your wagon consists mostly of the others in my lynch pool bothers me.

It's obviously not you and Titus, and I doubt it's you and BTD. So, unless Alpaca is suddenly bussing you, I see no scenario in which you're scum.

Why are Panther and Ranger clear to you?

[Titus]

Why are Panther and Ranger clear to you?

Because of their (or their predecessor's, in Panther's case) reaction to IV's scum claim at the end of D1.

Same with DGB (Shotty's reaction), even before her claim.

Why?

[Titus]

Those posts are not good for Ranger. I would have said no to Panther if I thought this was their only site. Other sites with Panther, I could see them reading and thinking legit scumclaim if I squint.

@mhsmith, You know why Ranger's proposition to lynch us back to back is bad if you're town and she's scum?

Ranger pushing IV for that comment as a scumclaim isn't good at all. Ranger would know better. Scumtopics on this site are not quick topics but private topics.

[Titus]

@DGB, if mhsmith is town, Ranger wants to lynch them. Ok. That happens.

We lynch Mhsmith. 7 alive.
Scum ignite you/other townie.
We lynch Me. 6 alive.
Scum do 3 burns.
That takes us to 3 alive with two scum.
If scum have 2 successful ignitions at that point, 2 mislynches is gg.

[Titus]

It should have been an obvious fake to anyone familiar with how scum topics work.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: mhsmith

I am starting to think Ranger X is a decent possibility.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ranger

Mhsmith is going too far for this to be a white knight of me IMO.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ranger

[Titus]

Ranger and X.

Ranger is two short on lynching. It's the biggest wagon. Either explain why she's town or get on. Scum no lynched before rather than lynch her.

[Titus]

Ranger needs votes. I won't vote BTD.

[Titus]

Because we can afford to mislynch you doesn't mean we should. I don't vote my townreads. I won't vote you. I'm voting Ranger or X unless someone gives a DAMN good reason otherwise.

VOTE: Ranger

[Titus]

We could have lynched Ranger, but then suddenly all the scum ganged up on you. It's pretty clear anything but lynch Ranger and I'm not voting town. Sorry.

[Titus]

Wow, the same players that won't vote Ranger immediately vote me for insisting on Ranger.

[Titus]

If I get burned, high priority on X but still look at Panther.

[Titus]

Considering those reads are pretty horrific, I can see why your record is the way it is.

[Titus]

Considering those reads are pretty horrific, I can see why your record is the way it is.

Presuming ranger is town, your major pushes this game were her and me. If you're town this wasn't much of one to remember for you either.

Yeah, I am not presuming that.