Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[Music and Mail]

intent.

[Music and Mail]

yup this is p much confscum.

pressure on us is a scumclaim.

[Music and Mail]

Yeah, so if this game continues with this much content scum are going to autowin.

Someone unvote Shotty and let's get some discussion going, hmm?

@Everyone

if you had to pick one person as scum from the last two pages who would it be?

[Music and Mail]

This makes no sense! If he flips scum, you're conftown? No, why would town know he was scum? It would be a coin flip, and no townie wants to take that chance. If he flips scum, the hammerer would be scum.
VOTE: innocentvillager until I understand this logic.

Is not making sense scummy?

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

All of 71 feels pretty forced but I don't have a good grasp of shotty's town meta so idk if he's usually the kind of person to see scummy things in stuff that isn't really alignment indicative.

Also fuck yeah Ranger!

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Just putting pressure on him to force him to explain himself.

Also also I hate this answer for some reason.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

That doesn't excuse your content sounding reachy and fake.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Autolynching Ranger tomorrow for this.

[Music and Mail]

in fact yeah.

if I get lynched today firefighter is on me anyway and we're autolynching Ranger tomorrow.

this is batshit insane.

[Music and Mail]

Ranger always errs towards errantly townreading me rather than mistakenly scumreading me and I think my play has been very towny this game.
The only reason I can come up with for her doing what she's doing is that she's scared of my scumhunting and wants to douse and ignite me on night 2 while having low chance of firefighter protection.
I refuse to lose my vote if it's not understood that firefighter is on me and if I don't have everyone's words that Ranger is instadead tomorrow.

[Music and Mail]

I'm not debating this with you while you're voting me either.

I am going to be gone for a few days. have fun POstie.

[Music and Mail]

{Alpaca, Alexcellent}
{BTD6}
{KickAssAndGiggle, innocentvillager}
{Kappy, shotty}
{Music and Mail}
^Approximately where I'm at right now.

Explain your reads on Alpaca, Alexcellent, BTD, KAAG, and innocentvillager to me please.
I've only played with town-you twice, but both times I could actually understand where your reads were coming from.
This, on the other hand... I just... I have several issues with this readslist.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Your play here, from

both

heads, is your scumgame.

[citation needed]

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

innocentvillager and KickAssAndGiggle are ambivalent. I believe that's the appropriate word for "one moment looks like a dirty scumbag, the next looks as pure as can be". They waver, significantly, between the two, each post. Reading the same post twice will give two different impressions. Reading it ten times would give at least five or six different impressions. I can't pin them down, at all.

BTD6 started in that category, and frankly, is only barely above them. What bumped him up is that, frankly, I got a mild gut townread from 70 and 74. That's literally it though. Everything else is that same, waving, back-and-forth, can't-pin-down I have for IV and KAAG.

Alpaca instantly became a townread for 28. Of all the RVS posting, that was actually the only one I could get a definitive read on. Everyone else's was null, but Alpaca's entrance stood out as strongly town. Nothing in 63 diminished this. I did like 80 a little as well.

As for Alexcellent, I

almost

got a read on him for 4, but it lacked the 'BUSSED SO HARD' tagline that would have made it definitely town. 46 was a solid town post, as I liked the pressure on Kappy. 69 did not diminish my read, either.

...So basically, this is a rare game where my top tier is barely above null. My top tier is weak town, followed by just-barely-above-null, to null, to just-barely-below-null, to scum.

This reads exactly like the kind of thought process I have when I'm scum and don't know if I'm townreading stuff because it actually sounds town or because I already know the player is town.

VOTE: Ranger

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Change of plans.

VOTE: innocentvillager.

Okay, why?

[Music and Mail]

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Ranger, your case is

horribly

reachy and flimsy. Not to mention that innocentvillager looks pretty obvtown to me.
If you're town here you deserve to be lynched.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

UNVOTE:

That's NOT L-1! RC wants to do things.

[Music and Mail]

k so done here.

VOTE: Ranger

[Music and Mail]

Why is IV obvtown to you?

Some of the detail in his posts.

For example:

Here's why I don't like that all of the reads are exactly the same: I'm trying to picture a town making an initial readlist with no explanation, just skimming through the posts with an initial impression. Then she gets questioned about her readlist, to provide reasons for more than half of them. She would have to go through all of the posts again, and analyse each post in-depth to be able to refer to each post in the readlist.

True reads are fickle, in my opinion. Ranger even admits something along the lines of "one could get multiple impressions from certain posts". I can't picture a town having the exact some read rankings to the precision of ties after almost a day and an extra post-by-post in-depth analysis of each character. Well, I mean I guess I can if the readlist was initially made with a similar level of detail as in the post analysis, but I still think it's unlikely. 106 just looks like the explanations were shoved in to fit the read, which only makes sense if you're fabricating them.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Ranger, your case is horribly reachy and flimsy. Not to mention that innocentvillager looks pretty obvtown to me.

Oh really?

Explain your reads on innocentvillager to me please.

I've only played with town-you twice, but both times I could actually understand where your reads were coming from. This, on the other hand... I just... I have several issues with this readslist.

^This implies you held severe issue with innocentvillager, in the middle of my list.

I did. My issue was that you weren't townreading him.

If you're town here you deserve to be lynched.

And this is an attitude you would

never

take as town.

Ever.

Question: have you ever seen scum-me getting snarky/aggressive when interacting with the people scumreading me or even while just making a push on someone?
Because I can point you to plenty of examples of me doing that as town but exactly zero examples of that happening where I've been scum.

I do not think you know my meta as well as you think you do.

Town-them holds absolutely no fear of being lynched whatsoever, because in their world, there isn't any possible way they could get lynched.

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

26 had a fake tone to it.

Of course it did because it wasn't a serious post!

Autolynching Ranger tomorrow for this.

If Music and Mail were town, they would be raising

absolute hell

about my scumread on there. We're talking, going virtually Frozen Angel levels of ballistic.
Well, actually, small correction. If they were town and townread me, they would be ranting at me.
If they were town and scumreading me, they would be ranting at the town about me.

This was it though.
This, literally this, was basically the whole of their Ranger push.
It's fake. It's insincere.
You get 97, but it's not filled with passion. It has no energy. It's flat, dull even.
103 is also more of the same. It's just further elaborating, but at the same time, not. It's not making a big display of it. Me scumreading RC is a

very big deal

.
To me, RC is just another player. I don't treat him any differently than I would anyone else. But this is not mutual. RC holds me in a whole different league, so he should be angry. He should be emotional. He should be saying how sad he is that I've gone downhill like this, he should be trying to work with me, or if he seriously thinks I replaced in as scum and for some UNGODLY reason went all-out on him (which...runs contrary to literally every piece of my scum meta, ever), he would not rest until I was dead.

Yet he's complacent here.
He's docile.
And that is not a town-Radiant.

The context (I hope) you're missing: RC has had a string of terrible FoSes on him recently.
This reaction makes

complete

sense.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Question: have you ever seen scum-me getting snarky/aggressive when interacting with the people scumreading me or even while just making a push on someone?

One, I fail to see how that was relevant to my point, but two, while lack of a very specific pattern from prior scum games which is present in town games may be a valid reason for most players, for your hydra...it most

certainly

is not. Not only because of being a hydra itself, but also because of who you are as players. It's literally saying, "Find this behavior, dare you to, because here is where I have showed it as town". An argument you thrive in.

I've read this over like 5 times now I still can't understand what you're saying so I'll just rephrase my previous point: you're using something that's basically a towntell for me to scumread me.

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

As previously established:

RadiantCowbells

. The guy who prides himself in basically never getting mislynched, except in cases of extreme town stupidity, he'll insist. (This claim, regardless of its truth, is what he BELIEVES is true, so for the purposes of my statement that RC would never fear getting mislynched as town, it holds true.)

As scum!

He prides himself on never being mislynched

as scum

!
He's scumread and mislynched as town frequently enough (when he isn't nightkilled, anyway).

And Postie, a player

known for making herself obvtown

.

[citation needed]

(Speaking of obvtown, RC does it too.)

[citation needed]

The context (I hope) you're missing: RC has had a string of terrible FoSes on him recently.

Oh? Care to show them? I didn't see any.

I'll let RC handle this if/when he feels like interacting with you.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

I've read this over like 5 times now I still can't understand what you're saying so I'll just rephrase my previous point: you're using something that's basically a towntell for me to scumread me.

And my point remains unchanged: you said that if I'm town, I deserve to be lynched.
I said that was not an attitude you would take as town to me, EVER.
You then ask me a question which is entirely unrelated.
But bluntly, your statement it's a towntell means nothing to me.

I don't see how my question was unrelated? I was pointing out that this isn't an attitude I'd take towards you as scum and giving evidence to back that up.

While it's true, RC holds pride of never getting lynched as scum, I meant what I said: RC still holds that pride of basically never being

mis

lynched, and every time he does (extremely rare as it may be), he blames a horrible town for it.

I guess RC can settle this issue himself, but either way, saying someone would purposely do something that would make the town want to lynch them because they don't get lynched easily is just awful reasoning.

[citation needed - Postie makes herself obvtown]

From RC himself if I recall correctly. I got this information from a game's scum thread in which Postie was town. Only so many games that could have been.

That's contrary to my experience. Remember who the day 1 lynch (attempt) was in our last game together?
Apart from yourself, other people have called me obvtown in exactly one game and I was scum there.

[citation needed - RC makes himself obvtown]

Basically every single towngame of his I've played in, ever. The closest you get to exceptions are Space Invaders (where his obvtowning kicked in late for me, but still kicked in) and Assassins Creed (where he flat-out wasn't even playing for most of the game, but once he actually engaged me it became clearer).

Because you personally find him to typically be obvtowny-looking does not mean that he's obvtowny-looking to everyone else.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

VOTE: BTD6

I have issues believing that town!you wants to do this again.

[Music and Mail]

IV is my only strong townread don't you fucking dare.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Oh wow I suck.
The "crumb" made me laugh though.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

VOTE: Ranger

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

But, I have to be completely honest here.

I lied.

I wasn't 100% sure you were scum at all.

I was actually less sure about you than I was on Music and Mail! Especially with your later posting.

I was kinda afraid I'd be getting lynched tomorrow, and then we'd be in D3 with no assured scum leads, my credibility shot, and nothing to go on.

Hahahaha no you don't get off that easily you slippery snake.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

fuck yourselves.

[Music and Mail]

or even interact with those scumreading him

That's generally a town!RC thing more than it is a scum!RC thing IIRC.

I can sort-of see where his frustration is coming from. I don't really understand any of the scumreads on us; I mean, at least one of them is probably a scum push, but not

everyone

FoSing/voting us can be scum. :L

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

This is a hydra of

RadiantCowbells

with

Postie

.

[Music and Mail]

Alpaca, can I get some reads from you? You haven't really given any so far and it's hard to explain but I just kinda feel like you're holding back a bit.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

If you're busy with exams then fair enough.
Can you go into any detail on your Alexcellent townread?

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Ranger, when you promised to get lynched was that some sort of gambit?

No, when I make a promise, I uphold it. In this game, I wouldn't mind getting lynched, because I wouldn't really be out of the game. I explicitly made the offer. It still stands.

Put your money where your mouth is then. Self-vote.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Yeah, this is one of those things where if she had actually self-voted I wouldn't have stopped deathtunneling her for the rest of the day.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

People need to do more things so I can expand my townpool. I have a strong townread on Kappy right now and that's it.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

I'm kinda scumreading Ranger and BTD but I don't think they're likely to be scum together ugh.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

If we get lynched here I'm not posting anything besides votes on Ranger for the duration of the game.

[Music and Mail]

That's generally a town!RC thing more than it is a scum!RC thing

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

I'm kinda scumreading Ranger and BTD but I don't think they're likely to be scum together ugh.

-- Mail

Can you please explain your read on me?

Scratch that. I re-ISO'd and I think you're town now.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Apathy is killing this game right now. Like half the playerlist is inactive.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Yay! Welcome! Please help rescue this game.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Hey Prodge sorry more coming tonight i got of work early and have time.

That's twice in a row you've prodged now. That's really bad form considering you just replaced in.

For those who doubted my Alexcellent townread, I can only say...

...I told you so.

That slot's town.

Why??

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Half of Touka's stuff is just quoting things and saying they're "interesting". I hate the slot already.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Certainly an interesting statement.

This is a really interesting argument honestly.

These are interesting votes

This is an interesting self observation not sure how I am supposed to feel about it.

How are you townreading this?

How???

Also the amount of times Touka says "honestly" holy shit

I honestly don't know what I am supposed to do with these posts honestly I have incredibly mixed feelings about it :/

Like jfc just this sentence alone

VOTE: Touka

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

@Ranger @M&M What do you guys think of the idea that both of you are town?

Depends. Is Ranger your partner?

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Touka is a beeboy alt?
Lmao I'm not unvoting until he gets lynched.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Kappy, why aren't you voting Touka?

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

I honestly don't know what I am supposed to do with these posts honestly I have incredibly mixed feelings about it :/

that quote was pretty scummy honestly

This is a really interesting argument honestly.

You can't honestly think that is a good idea >.>

Yeah that was all boring honestly.

I honestly don't honestly know how you're honestly deciding to honestly not vote Touka here honestly.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Voting the easiest wagon, even though you said you were townreading them, instead of trying anywhere else first or even stating who you'd rather lynch instead.

#JustObvscumThings

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

You have had 2 reads this game as far as I have seen and both are terrible.
My town read on you was misplaced.

Even if that were true, which it isn't, why have you only just noticed this now and taken it into consideration? And why were you townreading us before and what changed?

Alpaca you are voting M&M in your next post unless you can reasonably explain why they are town.

Lmao no.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

No. My read on BTD changed to a townread and I'm townreading Kappy and now shotty too.
I think that's a very reasonable amount of reads given all the lurking in this game.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Mail are you RC or Postie?

Postie.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Honestly? I honestly don't understand why you honestly think "honestly" is honestly a scum move. Honestly, it's fun though. VOTE: Mail, not Music

It's scummy because he's doing it so often that he sounds like nervous scum that's trying to emphasise how suuuper genuine everything he's saying is.
Also, why are you voting us?

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Stop being bad and vote Touka.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

In what world does Touka look town?

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

This town is so bad that at this point my main priority is lynching the people who are pissing me off so they don't win if they're scum rather than lynching scum.

VOTE: Drmyshottyszik

This is both.

[Music and Mail]

Actually that was RC. I don't not sign my posts.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Me? Really, Shotty? Me?
UNVOTE: In all seriousness, bet the scum are amount the lurkers. M&M was at L-1, so they probably just were waiting for a hammerer. If the game were active, I would be fine with an M&M lynch, but with a game this slow, I doubt it. Scum are just biding their time, knowing someone will eventually hammer.
VOTE: Ranger Let's see some action from you!

This heavily implies that you think that I'm town. walk me through this?

[Music and Mail]

Oy.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

This slot needs to be forced to produce content.

[Music and Mail]

Yaassss. This is a good replacement.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Really think Alpaca was scum who was consciously lurking.

Really don't like them jumping in and finally producing comment when we voted them.

I want them lynched today.

[Music and Mail]

I really wish I wasn't playing this game.

Touka stop being awful.

[Music and Mail]

Let's make a deal.

We get lynched today but everyone just lynches who we say to for the remainder of the game.

Otherwise I'm done making any effort to cooperate with you guys

[Music and Mail]

You don't know what is, thanks.

[Music and Mail]

Clearly that's what happened.

No, if he posts and I don't townread his post he's still scum.

[Music and Mail]

If I didn't know you were Beeboy and you didn't just jump on me in this terrible way I'd consider it.

[Music and Mail]

Really think Alpaca was scum who was consciously lurking.

Really don't like them jumping in and finally producing comment when we voted them.

I want them lynched today.

If this isn't confirmation bias I don't know what is.

How exactly is that confirmation bias?

He ignored the entire post to come to the conclusion that Alpaca is only posting because he was under pressure.

Fwiw that appears to be the most thoughtful post alpaca made all game. I'm not convinced that m&m is right about him only doing it due to pressure, but it's a plausible interpretation.

Are you going to play both sides the entire game?

If I didn't know you were Beeboy and you didn't just jump on me in this terrible way I'd consider it.

It's fine it just makes it easier to ignore your read if you don't bother explaining it.

My reads are too valuable to be ignored by anyone who is trying to win.
I question why you joined this game when you claim to have hated every game that you've played with me and are fully aware that I would prefer not to play with you either.

[Music and Mail]

I already explained my reasons.
One, almost everyone is suspicious of me.
Two, I can continue to talk after I'm lynched.
Three, I'm having difficulty getting good reads this game.
Four, I promised I would to innocentvillager yesterday.

Explain how any of these reasons make your self-vote pro-town.
mhsmith has already covered things pretty well so I won't waste my breath, but the bottom line is that this is so anti-town it really doesn't make much sense unless you're scum WIFOMing.
You said something about this being a "viable" but not "optimal" play somewhere - do you want to explain why you're choosing to go for "viable" over "optimal"? Why not just go for the optimal play? Like I can't understand how that's a town thought process at all.

[snip]

Oh my god, Ranger, mhsmith is obvtown. You cannot be this bad.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

So much hydra dissonance here.

[Music and Mail]

Still think Shotty's scum.

[Music and Mail]

I've wanted to replace out of this game since d1 tbh.

[Music and Mail]

Did town really just lynch my top townread again?
Ffs.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

Oh.

-- Mail

[Music and Mail]

I still think Shotty is town he is giving himself really limited lynch options if he is scum.

Unless it is a Smith+Shotty scum team which wouldn't be that odd honestly.

Do I have to explain to you why this logic is terrible?

Why can't I scumread you for saying something this dumb, Beeboy?

[Music and Mail]

I'm having trouble with this game too so Mail head will be replacing out as well. Sorry!
Good luck, town!

-- Mail