Newbie 1714 (Game Over)

[F-oh-ex]

Seeing as how the word "lurker" was already used, let me make this my first thing to say, as might come important anyway.

I'm a European and my time zone often disagrees with those of most of the players. For example, the day 1 started at 11:09 p.m. for me. It's now 6 p.m. and as soon as I got back home, I decided to check mafiascum because I knew the game would start soon. And I'm already being called a lurker. LOLed.

VOTE: sad because I was in a game with him :^)

Will get to reading later, I'm dead tired.

[F-oh-ex]

I'll try to but ETA on that post is a few hours.

[F-oh-ex]

Sometimes I will be inactive for a few pages and then come back with a longer post. Often a few pages appear while I'm asleep because time zones. When that happens, I'll be making longer posts which address everything that happened this far. In order to make this clearer to read, I'll be dividing them into parts.

Part 1: pages 1-2

Just to get the conversation going, what's everyone's experience with any sort of mafia?

A couple of months of chat mafia. One game here, as Town Tracker.

Actually, here. VOTE: beeboy
Since you're SE: why're you pulling out the 'innocent newb' card?

Is he?

Actually, here. VOTE: beeboy
Since you're SE: why're you pulling out the 'innocent newb' card?

You caught me, awww shucks!

I thought that if I could convince you all I don't have dozens of mafia games you would treat me as a beginner and could coast to the end game.

To others:
I personally don't trust the sarcasm. fosing for toDay.

Tone is a great way to get reads. That includes sarcasm. Noted your opinion.

Although your push is based on misunderstanding a joke I made you are probably town aligned and we are only 10 posts into the game!

How is a vote at RVS a push?

Senpai please teach me ;-;

<3

I think that, as far as how I'll IC, the best way in general will just be to let things be unless I see an obvious need to intervene, e.g. if a newbie expects to seriously no-lynch on D1 I'd need to tell them why we don't do that.

Also, I know you know the answer to this, but no spoilers. I want the newbs here to think about this:
{beeboy}
{dvds}
{Zyf, sad}

I like that approach to IC.
Also, the Ranger, the Ranger who made bracketed read lists!

To be honest, not a fan of them.

You can call me rask
Ranger always does it from town to scum, though it's a bit annoying because you don't know how strong the extremes of the list are at any given point.
Not particularly scumreading anyone atm but poking her is necessary.

Precisely why I don't like bracketed read lists. More of a "on a scale from X to Y" person.

Noticing that ranger's active in a different thread right now but ignoring this one.
So while I don't think that's enough evidence to bring someone to L-2, I would like some explanation, as an inactive IC is not exactly helping out.

I think you might have missed the part where Ranger explained her approach to ICing.

I do like what be seen some rask.

I definitely would like some more conversation to hop onto.

So 2 questions:
1. Why did you choose your username?
2. How long have you had a general experience in mafia? (Not necessarily just this site)

1. Because it spells Fox, as well as f(x) if you read it in a specific manner. Also, "oh" and "ex" are two words-not-words that I feel describe me well.
2. Already answered.

VOTE: Raskolnikov

?

Double ?
Also because I'm too lazy to go back and quote rask's response to my question...
UNVOTE: f-oh-ex VOTE: beeboy
Firstly because I now have more support for my reasoning against the inactive coasty townie, and

becuase beeboy is voting someone I'm reading as town without giving me info to hink otherwise

You might want to avoid that - just because someone is FoSing your townread doesn't make them scummy. What you're doing is buddying and could be interpreted as Chainsaw Defence. Not saying it is, far from it - but I think it's a bad play.

1. It isn't an omgus because rask wasn't voting me.
2. I don't like how Rask made his vote lose any form of pressure by saying it was a poke rather then a real read. Not only is that playing it way too safe for me to think it is town it also fails to actually apply any pressure with your vote.

I like that post. Good eye with noticing that Rask made his vote pointless by diluting the pressure it aplies. One point to beeboy.

[F-oh-ex]

Part 2: pages 3-4

If you must know.

Zyf: Null-town.
Rask: Null-town
Ranger: Null
DVD: Null
Sad: Null-scum.
Beeboy: Null-scum.

A bunch of reads with no comment. From a person who barely writes anything game-related. You'll forgive me if I don't consider these very seriously.

Also, sudden scumreads on Sad are noted.

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

Probably a hasty opinion but a valuable post. Sad was also in my first newbie so I'll try to use that to read him.

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

I have to agree–reading sad as scum with one post is a little discomforting.
F-oh-ex, ayale, and dvds all have yet to make meaningful posts, so while I have a suspicion that one poster among us is scum, I hesitate to make pushes for 2 players being scum.
For now:
Null-Town: Rask-although not by much, they do seem to be posting in the interest of the town, and do not appear to have any biases whatsoever.

"any biases whatsoever", ah, language is important and this is a very strong emphasis. Let me pull up 2 posts.

Liking zyf here. Beeboys response reads fairly relaxed though I don't know how good as scum he is.

{beeboy}
{dvds}
{Zyf, sad}

How is zyf at the bottom here?

{zyf}
{beeboy, dvds}
{ranger, sad}

Rodion (may I call you Rodion?) seems to care a lot about zyf - first pointing out his low position in Ranger's bracket list, then putting him on top of his own. That makes Zyf's praise look suspicious to me.

So I have been rereading the fourm and right now everyone is null for me as of the moment, since not alot of discussion has been going on and it has just been kinda chitchatting, have not been able to make out good reads on everyone yet.

Could you perhaps get a read on ranger?
We've been posting more than 'chitchat' and I'm wondering if I'm just being paranoid by reading them as scum.

Awfully pushy.

To me all of rangers posts have been more IC related than actual game stuff, so that is why to me I read her as null for now.

Ditto. Ranger seems to be a good IC so far but no actual alignment read from me.

To me all of rangers posts have been more IC related than actual game stuff, so that is why to me I read her as null for now.

Hrm.
What's making you read me as null? Afaik I've been trying to get discussion going.

I don't like people who immediately jump with "But I did this and that, you should townread me!".

Task is still scum and you are still town.

What about ranger?
And sad? Do you read them as null or do you have a good explanation as to why you think they're scum?

1. Again pushing about opinion on Ranger.
2. Take a look at the last questions. It's an awfully loaded question:

Do you have a null read on them or do you scumread them with a good explanation?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I don't like that.

Sad and Ranger are null because nothing they have done stands out to me.

So then why do you think sad is being read as scum by /both/ ranger and sickofit?

Asking a person X why people A and B both scumread a person L is a pretty bad question. Especially at this stage of game. Especially when the person B (sickofit) made no meaningful posts so far.

What Zyf is trying do to here is: "two people scumread him, come on, you can't have a null read on him". Compare with what I said about his previous post, just above.

Because something stands out to them that I am clearly not seeing. (I literally only have cop out answers as these are null reads of mine)

I also want sickofit to explain his read first as I already know Ranger wouldn't commit herself to something she can't explain even as scum.

Yeah definitely agree on making sick explain first

:
Right now it looks like ranger's scum and then sickofit is just agreeing to boost the argument, without a real argument of their own other than omgus, which at this stage could probably been changed.

Appreciating the (apparent) honesty here, so I think I'll move you back to null.

I don't like how arbitrarily you call Ranger and sad (more or less directly) scum and then brush off what sickofit is doing, even if you yourself analyse it as bad.

Bold because it will be important in a second.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Noted but not much comment at this time - meta and "too obvious" are a load of WIFOM in Newbies.

Currently, I'm definitely not reading Fox as scum so I'm going to tentatively say Ranger-Sickofit scum team?

I'd like to hear their reads explained first before I go any furthe

r, but I'm struggling to decide which one I want to lynch...
Sickofit on the other hand is a weaker read for me, it's just they seem to be trying to lead the conversation astray, they don't seem to be interested in giving valuable read explanations,

and they read sad as scum because omgus

...they just seem to be following ranger too closely...

Hrm...UNVOTE: ranger and VOTE: sickofit

Also, thanks fox, I'll hopefully see you in a bit.

So Zyf was asking question "why do you think sickofit and Ranger scumread sad", then says twice that he wants sickofit to explain his read, then he jumps to saying "sickofit scumreads sad because omgus".
1. Sickofit never got to explaining his read.
2. You're inconsinstent.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

The last game I was in with her she was pretty actually apparent scum in that normally she wouldn't be completely misreading the game, assuming my own reads aren't off themselves. This isn't nearly as bad but still weird; I would expect her scumgame to be a lot better after that but then again this is hardly a red flag either. Ehh.

Do you think sickofit is following ranger as a scum team and that's why sick also didn't post their explanations?

Also to ranger: Unfortunately, deliberately not sharing your reads sets a precedent for the newbs like myself, so now I'm having difficulty reading sick as town, too. If everyone else follows your strategy, then we're basically toasted because no one can convince anyone else of...well...anything.

OBJECTION! Leading the witness!

Uh-huh. Scum reads on me because of only 1 post.
Opinion: Sick is simply sheeping Ranger, his partner. Zyf town.
Foses: not yet anyone. At least for another page
People please, scum reading ANYONE on the first page requires skill.

You're arguing against early scumreads and fos and at the same time scumreading sick/ranger as a team?

I see what you're saying, but the difference is sad literally had posted once (on the first page) without any substantial thoughts yet ranger immediately read sad as scum. I think they took offense due to the one post + first page, not the fact that it's RVS rn.

That being said, I like your thinking. I'd like to put you in town.

Updated thoughts:
{Rask}
{...no one}
{beeboy, F o x, sad, Ayale}
{dvds-your lack of interest in getting any thoughts down bothers me, but it could easily be newb caution. Please, the more you put, the better it is for us as a town as a whole}
{Ranger, Sickofit}

Second praising of Rask btw. Also, me and Ayale in the same bracket as beeboy and sad? That's just... wrong. I made like 2 posts at the time and Ayale made none.

Nice, welcome aboard, Vandit.
Interested mostly on your reads on Rask, Ranger, and sickofit.
Your mafia experience?

Not sad this time? Trying to strengthen general scumread on Ranger and sickofit and townread on Rask?

Note that at this point I'm scumreading Zyf already so I might be prone to tunnelling. Asking about one's strongest reads isn't necessarily scummy... but Zyf keeps rubbing me wrong.

*Mr. Lonely plays in background*
Whenever beeboy gets back:
Do you still read rask as scum?

Awwwwwwwww, you care so much about how other people view Rask! It's so cute!

Sick, whenever you get back on, you'd better explain why you read sad as scum.

You already answered that question yourself.

I find it hard to believe town ranger isn't townreading zyf, especially considering how she talks to him in 51 which comes off as treating him town.

I didn't say anything about not townreading them, now, did I?

Hm, so is Rask pushing people townreading Zyf?

Yo where did everyone go

They went to clean the floor after the flood.

Get it? Because you wrote 6 posts in a row?

[F-oh-ex]

Don't wanna respond to everything in one go. This was more of a "first impressions". I'll reevaluate my responses and respond to the rest after I've read the game a few times.

If you feel my manner is inefficient and hard to read, do say so, and I'll try to come up with a different form.

[F-oh-ex]

Rodion (may I call you Rodion?)

You're the first one to ask me that!
I'd prefer rask just so things don't get confusing, I already feel buddied though

No one asked you that yet? :O They should be PUNISHED for that CRIME.

Still scumreading you slightly <3

[F-oh-ex]

Epicmafia is cancer btw.

[F-oh-ex]

smh my vote was to put a lil' pressure on sad, it was 2nd vote out of 5? Rask is just hardcore tunnelling and trying to create connections where there are none. Nice try, bud.

Zyf's a townread now, that post-hammer reaction felt really genuine and I don't see it being faked so well on spot.

[F-oh-ex]

At the time of my post sad was at what, L-3? L-2? As I mentioned before, I've played one game with him so I more or less know what to expect from him, I believe. Pressure on him was a very good method of gaining a read so I stayed on him so as not to alleviate it. If you accuse me, as you suggested earlier, of staying on sad in hopes of hammer happening so quickly, then wow, I wish I could read the future the way you think me to.

I'd need to read the game carefully to make an opinion of Vandit. I'll admit, I didn't touch the thread during the night. I'll actually decide today or tomorrow if I am going to need a replacement because while I'd hate to be that person, I also wouldn't like to cripple the game by not being able to pay enough attention.

[F-oh-ex]

I don't think Ranger was killed for only being the IC she was probably also killed for having correct reads.
There had to have been something there to offset the chance she was targeted by a protective action last night.

The fact that you mention offsetting protective action seems like Too Much Information for me. You seem to suggest Doctor/Jailkeeper would be on Ranger and that Mafia Roleblocker tried to target them (what else could be the "offset"?).

I think you just revealed too much. Too Much Information, maybe scumgloating, too? Either way, I think you are either Mafia RB or a partner of one.

VOTE: beeboy

[F-oh-ex]

If mafia has 2x goons there is a chance there is a doctor.
If mafia has 1x RB there is a chance there is a doctor.

I believe this info is very public.

Corrected for you: If Mafia has 1x RB there is 100% chance there is a protection role. And why would you mention Ranger being targetted by a protection action out of a blue?

[F-oh-ex]

If mafia has 2x goons there is a chance there is a doctor.
If mafia has 1x RB there is a chance there is a doctor.

I believe this info is very public.

Corrected for you: If Mafia has 1x RB there is 100% chance there is a protection role. And why would you mention Ranger being targetted by a protection action out of a blue?

Because that is always a risk the scum team needs to consider regardless of whether or not they have a roleblocker.

You didn't really answer my question. This brought nothing to the table, except maybe some Information Instead of Analysis right now. And IIRC Ranger wasn't such a strong general townread. Hell, she wasn't even #1 popular townread.

Also, your thesis was that Ranger was killed to silence her and her reads. That's a bold statement and you conveniently didn't mention the part that it's a huge WIFOM. In hopes of trying to make us go after Ranger's reads, perhaps? That would give you a huge towncred since Ranger mentioned you once as your top scumread.

[F-oh-ex]

If Ranger was being scumread and had wrong reads I don't understand why she would be killed.
It could indicate that Rask is scum but meh.

Er.
1: Day 1 lasted like 2-3 days. Those early reads would shift 100 times and Ranger was an IC. Fear-killed, maybe?
2: People who were a strong general townread would be more likely to be protected.

[F-oh-ex]

Also, I never said she was scumread. I said she wasn't such a strong townread as you make her out to be. I also never said her reads were wrong. Fighting strawman must be fun.

[F-oh-ex]

"If Ranger was either going to burn herself or another townie into the ground why was she killed?"

I implore you to read what I've just written - day 1 lasted 2-3 days, those early reads would shift 100 times. Assuming that Ranger would lynch a mislynch, after 3 days of IRL time, is just dumb.

Protecting the general town read > protecting IC tbh.
If she was scum read so strongly, fearkill makes all the more sense.

[F-oh-ex]

Now let me excuse myself so I can do some studying before sleep. Also, if I reply tomorrow, it'll give me time to take a step back and look at it rather than drive this conversation into a pointless 1v1.

[F-oh-ex]

The fact that you mention offsetting protective action seems like Too Much Information for me. You seem to suggest Doctor/Jailkeeper would be on Ranger and that Mafia Roleblocker tried to target them (what else could be the "offset"?).

I think you just revealed too much. Too Much Information, maybe scumgloating, too? Either way, I think you are either Mafia RB or a partner of one.

VOTE: beeboy

Err, before you caught up on vandit and formed an opinion (280) you scumread beeboys NK spec?
How can you even discuss the nightkill if you haven't looked at vandit (rangers 2nd scumread)?

What's weird about commenting on something that catches your eye and rubs you wrong?
Oh no, how did I dare discuss the nightkill, aaaaaa!!!

[F-oh-ex]

I never said I didn't read the game, did I? I usually make 2-3 thorough rereads before solidifying opinions - that's what I referred to as solid reading. Also, Ranger's reads were early reads, she posted them what, 1-2 IRL days into game? That's hardly final enough to draw a nightkill while being a strong townread is.

I'm not mocking you personally, I'm being generally sardonic.

[F-oh-ex]

FYI: I will be free on Saturday, meanwhile I'm studying for a big, very important test (it's on Friday) which covers material I particularly struggle with and I'd rather not fail my academic year so I'll pop in every so often but I can make real presence no sooner than on Saturday.

[F-oh-ex]

Er, where did you get that I DON'T have an intent on Vandit? I just followed the trail I saw and as I said, I'm kinda busy until Saturday. I've seen a policy lynch suggestion for Vandit and hell, I'm down for that if we don't have a better target in out collective hive mind. As per scum reading, I haven't dug deep enough yet to make an opinion whether he's such an obvious scum or an idiot town.

[F-oh-ex]

Why wouldn't I vote someone who stroke me as scum. Leaving a vote right now is of no much consequence, not at this stage, and everyone shouts not to vote Vandit anyway. And I actually dropped the topic for the time being yesterday when I saw it going into a dead alley so I'm hardly pushing it anymore.

[F-oh-ex]

Can we actually use the 2 weeks we have for a day and, even if we agree on a lynch earlier, do it after ~10 days? Speedlynching won't do us any good and, especially since we were robbed of out time during day 1, we could certainly use more time to talk now.

[F-oh-ex]

Yep. Agreed
So what are we speculating? Scumpartner or PRs?
Or both?
Also fox at the beginning of toDay you mentioned that killing general townread>killing IC.
Since you imply ranger was not IC, who were you expecting to get attacked?

How the fuck did I imply ranger was not IC, Ranger being IC is a freaking fact. I suspected Mafia RB being in play from beeyboy's posts and if there is one, there's a Doc/JK too. This means Mafia wouldn't want to go for the most obvious kill.

And to be honest, I didn't have a good guess on who would be killed.

[F-oh-ex]

Yep. Agreed
So what are we speculating? Scumpartner or PRs?
Or both?
Also fox at the beginning of toDay you mentioned that killing general townread>killing IC.
Since you imply ranger was not IC, who were you expecting to get attacked?

How the fuck did I imply ranger was not IC, Ranger being IC is a freaking fact. I suspected Mafia RB being in play from beeyboy's posts and if there is one, there's a Doc/JK too. This means Mafia wouldn't want to go for the most obvious kill.

And to be honest, I didn't have a good guess on who would be killed.

OMFG lmao what a fail
I meant general townread XDDDDD

Okay, now I see what you mean. I think I already answered this but let me restate this becaues I might not have written it clearly.

The fact that Ranger was killed, rather than you or Rask, agrees with what came to my mind when I read beeboy's posts - Mafia RB exists. Existence of Mafia RB guarantees existence of Doc/JK. Therefore, if Mafia RB does exist, Mafia would expect their best kill to be protected and would instead go for a less optimal option - in this case, an IC.

Take this with a grain of salt obviously - this is my hypothesis and it's quite a long shot but it's my best answer for "What do you think actually happened and why did it happen?".

Regarding Vandit claiming, it seems that he is the agreed lynch so I don't see why he wouldn't claim. It will also be better if he claims now rather than 1 day before deadline so we can discuss his claim.

[F-oh-ex]

Also.
UNVOTE: Beeboy

My FoS might have come from a huge stretch and what little pressure my vote gave, is over anyway.

[F-oh-ex]

Judging by his tone:

inb4 he claims a Power Role that is not in the game/hits the Power Role that IS in the game, causing one of the PRs to CC or to say "I'm another PR so you must be lying".

Bonus points if he's actually a dumb Vanilla Townie doing it.

[F-oh-ex]

Cynicism aside, it was a shoutot to Power Roles not to immediately jump in and CC if Vandit claims a Power Role. Mafia will often claim a PR in order to avoid getting lynched/lure out the real PR. Dumb VTs will do it to, sometimes...

[F-oh-ex]

Yeah, VI's much more catchy, dunno why I didn't use it,

Like your new av <3

[F-oh-ex]

Zzzzzzzzzzz.

[F-oh-ex]

@mod In that case, ETA on Vandit getting replaced?

[F-oh-ex]

Declaring intent to hammer.

Waiting 12 hours from now for Vandit's claim/replacement. Everyone fine with it?

[F-oh-ex]

11 hours, 56 minutes has passed since my declaration of intent. At this point I'm just going to hammer in a few minutes.

[F-oh-ex]

I have had a recent realization that if we stall the hammer to long and let the game die that is anti town.

It's true. I REALLY hate this dead gamestate.

So you're sick of this gamestate?

HAR HAR.

[F-oh-ex]

Okay, hammering, the game's been stale for some time so putting off the lynch isn't doing us any goodm as it's been pointed out already.

VOTE: Vandit24

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Since we're doing this in case of NK:

I'm pretty convinced Zyf is Town, don't let me down.
Sick/beeboy would be where I'd look closer.
Rask... he seems good enough to manipulate us all into townreading him.

[F-oh-ex]

I don't think anyone buddied Vandit. (inb4 that I buddied him)
It will be 1v4 so with two lynches my money'd be on winning at LyLo. I'd lynch between Sick/beeboy, while keeping an eye on Rask.
I guess I wouldn't like to see mhsmith lynched.

[F-oh-ex]

Same, sick is the stronger scum read out of them two.

[F-oh-ex]

To me every thread has a grey icon. Our has a sun, indicating it's day, it's all good.

Also, you spell it "grey", I like you.

[F-oh-ex]

Eh, in my previous game I was Tracker and despite trying to hold back my instinct to townlead, I gained a massive towncred. I wanted to avoid it this game so I played badly on purpose. I wanted to be just scummy enough to be "next lynch" target and not to get NKed. I was going to claim day 3, whether it was 1v4 or 2v3. Had I survived N2, we'd have won probably.

Zyf, I scumread you and since you were leading, that read affected the way I perceived the game a lot. Confirming your alignment would allow me to read the game better. Also, I didn't see you getting NKed in case you were Town because you were obviously not a PR.