Newbie 1717: Newbies Through the Looking Glass (Game Over)

[BlankFace]

Hello everyone! Starting my read through right now, wall incoming.

[BlankFace]

If anyone has any questions for me, this wouldn't be a bad time for it. It'll help me focus during the reread.

[BlankFace]

My thoughts on specific things you've been looking into. I'm only on page four right now, I've got 12 to go. I've got a lot of catching up to do with a little under 2 days left in the deadline. If you had questions for snoe, send them my way.

[BlankFace]

Also UNVOTE: until I finish my reread.

[BlankFace]

EBWOP:
UNVOTE:

[BlankFace]

These are all my thoughts as I read. I’ll sum things up in a second spoiler for a tl:dr

Spoiler: ”Pages One through Four”

Liking Accountant’s 9. Very quick push to get out of RVS, which is almost always protown. By extension, do not like Grace’s 11 or 13. Quick to discredit and backstep when called out. Normally I’d say that it’s too early in the game to get a strong ping one way or another but we aren’t even on the second page when a contradiction comes out from Grace. Grace’s 11 comes two posts after Accountant’s breakdown of the first few RVS votes. Kind of weird to get that wrong.

Accountant is hella town; 14 and 15. Grace’s response, 16 reeks of excuses. It’s still RVS but Grace’s 11 did not come off with that same joke vibe that I usually get from RVS. It seemed to have more serious weight behind it. The question is whether it was to get discussion going or to throw shade at Accountant’s assertion that innocenttownie and Meepo are scumbuddies? If Grace flips scum, I think we’ll find our second one there.

Grace’s 18 pings me too. “I don't think you're a mafia member because you're manipulative. I think you are a mafia member, I just do, I don't trust you. And then, if I'm right about thinking so, you'd be really dangerous and we should lynch you before you get to make us vote for an innocent villager.” This is entirely overcautious, especially for the first page when only four players have chimed in. IV has made a single post so far and Grace is going pretty far to protect him.

Grace’s 25 is super gross. “And this is my first Mafia game ever, I'm really confused and I have zero experience, I should've voted for someone as inexperienced as I, who wouldn't have taken it serious.” I don’t think you can read 11 as a joke. This reads like regret for pushing so hard on someone more experienced early on. Same time though, I can’t really see newbie scum do that. More often than not, they lurk. Slight scum read on Grace’s slot but it is weak at best.

Mizzy/Meepo back and forth on page two is kind of bleh. Nothing too interesting there.

Lycan’s 46 is pretty town. New perspective on IV followed with some meta is nice.

54 from IV is a pretty lame excuse.
Simoyd’s flurry of posts {68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74) are kind of useless. Jokes about shawarma, posting about not liking Grace, IV, Lycan, and Meepo with little to no explanation. He does ask Lycan and Meepo a question in two separate posts but I’m not sure I get where he’s going yet. The question toward Meepo is really more of a weak accusation, based off of grammar more than anything. A vote for someone saying they’re “pretty sure” of something is about as weak as it gets. Noting that he puts Grace as Meepo’s scum partner though. Nothing of substance, lots of buzzing about.

Account and Lycan continue to be town, mostly. 78, 92 respectively). I am on board with Accountant’s read on Grace, I don’t see newbscum being as aggressive as Grace was in the beginning. I don’t agree that Grace was just lashing out because she was put under pressure by the IC, I think that pressure could have come from anywhere and we would have seen the same reaction. BUT I don’t think Grace has done much since that initial page 1-3 fuss between her and Accountant. A lot of her posts since then have been in reference to that and not what has been going on since then.

Lycan is the first player with a readlist so far in the game. Also the first one to start calling out lurkers in IV and my slot. At the same time though, RC has produced just about as much content as both of these slots and gets passed over. Meta-wise I can half understand that, I’ve pushed RC on that basis before with very shitty results. What I’m interested in is why he gets a town lean when his contribution so far Wondering why that town lean is there in the first place.

93 is empty. More buzzing, less being done about it. Meepo didn’t respond once to Simoyd’s 73. I don’t blame him either. But Simoyd seems to be parking his vote at this point and making no case whatsoever besides the incredibly weak grammar argument.

Not a fan of Meepo’s 95. I don’t like anyone who talks about a night kill that hasn’t happened yet. Only leads to WIFOM and contributes nothing. Gathering and discussing townreads is a part of scum hunting, discouraging that doesn’t help.

TL:DR;
Don’t like Simoyd’s slot so far. Didn’t really show up until page 3, and it was a flurry of fluff with absolutely no pressure behind it. Doesn’t feel like scumhuning, just active lurking.

Grace is null. Her initial posts pinged me as scum but as they progressed, it didn’t feel like scum flailing. It also didn’t look like what I’ve seen from newb scum before.

Accountant is town as hell, Lycan is a bit behind her.

Meepo warrants looking into further, so does IV, RC, and Pants. Pants has had one post at this point, I believe. RC is being what I’ve seen from town RC early game. No point in reading to heavily there just yet. IV has no content to really consider. The only thing that sets him apart from Simoyd at this point in the game is that he openly admitted to not contributing to anything.



@Simoyd's 438 I'll have an up to date readlist in the next 5 hours most likely. There's a lot to sift thought.

Fixed the spoiler tag - Xalxe

[BlankFace]

@mod: Can you fix that spoiler tag? I forgot to preview the post.

[BlankFace]

That's null at best. I forgot that snoe replaced Pants. Pants did shit for the first four pages though. It'd be too easy to fake to be a town tell as scum anyways.

Just got back from some landscaping, starting the next few pages soon.

[BlankFace]

Because it's not a good reason to read anyone town, even as a passing thought.

[BlankFace]

Hey, I gave you a case. Why do you think Blank is more likely to be scum than Accountant?

Blank, does jackshit..gets defenses
Accountant feels town...

Still reading. I had a job interview today, that took precedence over the game.

Why is Accountant town to you? And what defenses did I get? Because it still seems like a split between me and Accountant at this point.

[BlankFace]

And the question about Accountant?

[BlankFace]

Wall Warning:

Spoiler: ”Pages Five through Ten”

I just went from not liking Simoyd to slightly liking him. His 97 shows a pretty clear line of thought and despite Mizzy’s 100, he continues his pressure in 101. The question in 101 is loaded as hell though. Either option paints Mizzy into a corner. I’m going to have to revisit this question once my initial re-read is over.
IV’s 104 finally shows some okay content. Everything before looking into Lycan’s post is meh but his read into Lycan’s post is defensive as fuck. He spends most of the post arguing that Lycan doesn’t put enough effort into showing his work in Lycan’s meta read of him. I wouldn’t either, unless prompted. Notice that he also doesn’t disagree with the meta read, just that Lycan didn’t give examples.

If you read Lycan’s 106 and can’t see town, I’ll eat my shoe.

Skipping RCs posts for now? I’m shit at reading him. He can testify to that. Looking over his ISO, I can already tell that I’m going to fall into the same trap I did in Midnight Sun if I read too much into RC [I pushed him as hard as I could from day 1 to whenever he got lynched, was wrong as hell about it too.] Not doing it.

Simoyd’s 120 – Starting analysis on Accountant’s RVS vote as bussing is incredibly meh. There were four people who were posting any real content at that point; Grace, Accountant, Meepo, and Mizzy. I can’t say that I would call that tunneling just yet, especially when half of the other players haven’t even got a word in. Accountant sure as shit pressured Grace, won’t argue that. I’m also a little confused by what Simoyd means by bussing façade. If Accountant’s 9 was supposed to be the start of the bussing, would that make VI or Meepo Accountant’s partner? What does pushing Grace do to further that bus? And why bother bussing on the very first page in RVS? There’s also some interesting defense of Mizzy in this post. Pot, kettle, etc.

I also hate this: “Liking me is the obvious scum choice because I'm terrible at this game and obvious newb town. Attacking mizzie again for no good reason... I think the meepo wagon has really bottomed out and there's not really anything to push. This is besides the fact that I was voting meepo and not pushing either, but you like me?”

First, AtE. Second, I don’t like the insistence on being town. If I’m reading this correctly, this sets Simoyd up in a win/win position as scum. Not only can he refer to this to show that he tried never tried to buddy anyone, even as he starts to buddy to Mizzy during the same fucking post, but when he lives on to the end of the game he can point back to it again and say “See, I was right. Scum kept me alive because I’m newb town.” Third: Accountant’s 103, which is the post he is referring to, is asking Mizzy to explain a scum read. Shutting down someone else’s scumhunting is scummy as hell. There is no benefit as town to ever attack someone for asking for elaboration.

I do not like Accountant’s response to his post though in 124. Specifically,

Why defend?


Because people were attacking him unreasonably and I wanted to put a stop to that.

You can’t go from “I was tunneling Grace to put pressure on her to get a better read of her alignment” and then say this in the same post. Pressure on IV was not unwarranted with how little he had to say about the early game. Also do not like the fact that Accountant’s response to asking RC to sheep was: “
What is wrong with town asking someone to sheep them? To "sheep" someone means to follow their lead and vote who they vote - if a town member is confident they've found a good player to vote, they should want the rest of the town to vote with them.” When two quotes above Accountant says “RC's meta isn't to jab and poke, it's to make naked votes and one liners or 20 pages and then jump on someone and deathtunnel them. In addition, I'm wary of trying to sort RC early because I find him difficult to read.” Why would you ask someone you find difficult to read to sheep you? I can understand asking a townread to follow you, but if you ask someone you know you have a hard time to read to sheep you, what do you gain from it as town? Either they do or they don’t, what does that tell you about their alignment?

Page 7 is pretty boring. The only thing that really interest me are Accountant’s 171. I have very little meta on RC but I can’t see RC being the kind of guy to sheep a vote like that, especially when RC has been pushing on Accountant from his very first post. Feels weird, especially when Accountant knows that RC goes into a deathtunnel. What is town!Accountant doing to deal with RC in this instance? Can’t be a reaction test, doesn’t really further the state of the game. Why is Accountant so adamant about RC agreeing with him? Especially given the fact that Accountant blatantly says that he is putting no real effort into reading RC day 1, 159. I feel more or less the same about RC, he’s difficult to read, so why does that mean Accountant reads him as town day one and establish that the longer he survives, the scummier he is? There’s no town motivation for that. Essentially, RC is null for Accountant. Accountant just says that in an extremely roundabout way.

Simoyd’s 209 is pretty gross. Flimsy reason to townread RC and Simoyd went from his case in 120 to entertaining the possibility that Accountant could be town. Thinking back on it, I don’t remember Simoyd even responding to Accountant’s 124. I’ll have to go back and look after I finish this.

Accountant’s 226is a pretty big flip on the issue I had earlier, it flat out contradicts 159. RC releases his pressure with the promise of a case, and Accountant jumps on the unvote. What spark is Accountant looking for here? RC has made his intentions clear.

[BlankFace]

I'd say there's a reason to wagon Accountant after reading through that chunk of the game.

[BlankFace]

Nothing survivalist about it, it's how I play.

Where you in Dr. McNinja with me a few months back?

[BlankFace]

post 103: Liking me is the obvious scum choice because I'm terrible at this game and obvious newb town.

Attacking mizzie again for no good reason...

I think the meepo wagon has really bottomed out and there's not really anything to push. This is besides the fact that I was voting meepo and not pushing either, but you like me?

For no good reason is a pretty definitive way to say that something is either pointless or bad. Mizzy hadn't answered the question yet, so either this is a chainsaw or an attempt to shut down Accountant's line of questioning. Whether or not Mizzy answered isn't the point, it's what you did that interests me.

Accountant's 103 isn't bad. Asking for people to elaborate on who they are voting/suspicious of is not a bad thing. More information only helps town.

Why do you feel Accountant was pushing for Mizzy to explain the Meebo read?

EBWOP: You've been pretty adamant on Accountant for scum, so yeah it felt off to me. How do you feel about since Postie entered the game or his back and forth between Titus?

[BlankFace]

Scum lean. There was one post that made me like him more but its not enough to outweigh everything else I've said. Ill have a more definitive answer once I finish the last few pages.

[BlankFace]

Sorry RC, but I'll be too lazy tomorrow to make a wall

I suspect Blank's slot mostly because all 3 players who were in it have been scummy.

Pants

- No offense to him, but he was pretty useless. As a SE he should know better, that Town needs to be active to win.

snoe

- I don't like his 310. It looks to me like he is paranoid, and he desperately wants to get out of the bad position that Pants left him in, so he tries to snatch some town cred with those notes of his. The problem is, there is not really a point in them. I don't know what's the English idiom for that. Like, it looks like a big deal on the outside, but in reality, it's nothing.

When I questioned him about them, he admitted that he wrote them so we can townread him. He excused himself that he did it because Pants was being scumread alot, but he contradicted himself, because earlier he didn't want to admit that his slot is scummy, and instead said that Pants was a null read.

2) I need to give you all SOMETHING with which to read my slot.

Pants, bless him … didn’t

.

Pants did 5 posts and they were lazy and prod-dodging.

Scummy in a larger sense - they contributed nothing

.

First you say that Pants was a null read. Now you are saying a different thing.

Blank

- I really don't like him supporting Accountant so very much. If Accountant is lynched and flips town, it will look good on him. And if Blank gets lynched and flips scum, it will look bad on Accountant.

Also, we have 2 days left, right? Why hammer when we can discuss more, even for a little bit.

UNVOTE:

Blank is at L-2.

Did you even read my page 5-10 qualms? Accountant started strong but isn't my top read anymore in the slightest. Just because I haven't made a tier list doesn't mean I don't have suspicions. Accountant and Simoyd are at the top right now but I'm hesitant to say for sure until I make to where I replaced in.

I'm also incredibly drunk right now, I'll finish it tomorrow morning. But if you can't read between the lines and see my focus is right now, with how far I've analyzed, I'd have to say you aren't reading the posts I make that are actually meaningful.

HoS[\b] IV&Titus for that L-1 and intent before I'm even caught up fully.

[BlankFace]

I want to lynch you because of pages 5-10. If you have an issue with what I've said, respond to it.

IV, HoS is a step above FoS. It means trying to hammer someone who isn't caught up 100% is scummy as shit. We have 2 days, calm the fuck down and hold your horses. And you'll be lucky if I am hung over tomorrow, you got by for eight pages without doing anything. Don't think I didn't take note of that. Vacation or not, it's not hard to voice a quick opinion.

[BlankFace]

I want to lynch you because of pages 5-10. If you have an issue with what I've said, respond to it.

IV, HoS is a step above FoS. It means trying to hammer someone who isn't caught up 100% is scummy as shit. We have 2 days, calm the fuck down and hold your horses. And you'll be lucky if I am hung over tomorrow, you got by for eight pages without doing anything. Don't think I didn't take note of that. Vacation or not, it's not hard to voice a quick opinion.

Yeah, never caught up please protect me pity party.

I don't give two shits. You and Postie are scum. Nothing you can claim can save you.

If there was an emoticon for hand flapping mimicking talking, I'd use it. Play difference between us is not alignment indicative. I sift through every game I play like this, sorry it's not as fast as you want it to be. Shutting me down before I get my piece out is anti-town. Either you think I'm scared and I hang myself with what I say OR give you more to work with when I flip. There is literally no harm in letting me finish. I don't need a pity party, I'd do this as town or scum.

EBWOP:
No intent to hammer.

[BlankFace]

Titus is confirmed town, and so is accountant. So I value their reads from day one more than anyone else's reads. postie's reads were inconclusive and undecided, which i think is scummy. blank's/snoe's reads were just confusing, which reads scum to me.

You were suspicious of Accountant all day yesterday. And now her reads hold more value that anyone elses?

And for my reads being so "confusing", you've done almost nothing to actually try to pressure me on them or clarify them. What about my reads is confusing, besides the fact that I have you pegged for scum? Also interesting is that your real last mention of Postie was her as your top town read 377. What made that sudden change? The fact that two confirmed town suspected her? Because that's weak as hell.

vote: Simoyd

My current position on Lycan is top town read. That hasn't changed much at all since I skimmed the rest of the thread. I don't have the time to pick it apart like I was, started a new job this week.

[BlankFace]

You were suspicious of Accountant all day yesterday. And now her reads hold more value that anyone elses?

because accountant is confirmed town now, so along with titus and my own opinion, I have 3 distinct opinions which I reconcile to make a decision

Also interesting is that your real last mention of Postie was her as your top town read 377. What made that sudden change? The fact that two confirmed town suspected her? Because that's weak as hell.

I don't think it's weak. I think both players are more experienced than I am, and I know they aren't scum. What makes this weak exactly?

Sheeping, not forming any real opinion of your own for us to actually dig through. You have to produce zero content to actually judge this way.

[BlankFace]

Can we just lynch Simoyd now?

How is no one else seeing how opportunistic he is being right now.

[BlankFace]

blank: who is your second scumread?

Not until you answer the question you skipped from my 804.

What is wrong with the reads I posted yesterday? You said they were confusing, what about them were confusing? What issue did you have with them?

[BlankFace]

In post 440, BlankFace wrote:
Don’t like Simoyd’s slot so far. Didn’t really show up until page 3, and it was a flurry of fluff with absolutely no pressure behind it. Doesn’t feel like scumhuning, just

active

lurking.

You're an SE so you should know that 6 hours is hardly lurking. This has nothing to do with that the read is on me, just that you picked this out of the other things that happened.

Active being the operative word. It was fluff. You didn't come in at the beginning of the game, you came in after Grace and Accountant had gone back and forth. I commented on this:

Simoyd’s flurry of posts {68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74) are kind of useless. Jokes about shawarma, posting about not liking Grace, IV, Lycan, and Meepo with little to no explanation. He does ask Lycan and Meepo a question in two separate posts but I’m not sure I get where he’s going yet. The question toward Meepo is really more of a weak accusation, based off of grammar more than anything. A vote for someone saying they’re “pretty sure” of something is about as weak as it gets. Noting that he puts Grace as Meepo’s scum partner though. Nothing of substance, lots of buzzing about.

You weren't actually pushing anything, you came in and made a lot of noise so we'd see you were there, but added nothing.

In post 440, BlankFace wrote:
Accountant is town as hell, Lycan is a bit behind her.

accountant is town as hell? I don't know how accountant normally plays, but I know I'm not the only one who was shocked when she said she hadn't done a reaction test the whole game. Lycan is town so early? Most had him as null at the time. This confuses me because it's inconsistent with everyone. Makes me think there's a motivation for the difference...

So me having a differing opinion on a player makes me scum? Keep in mind you're nitpicking my thoughts on the first four pages of the game. That is how I felt at the time, Accountant in the first four pages was being proactive, I liked him for town.

responses I already made to your confusingness: 601, 603, 604

Two of which are jokes. I stick by what I said, your response didn't change the way I feel about it.

At the top of 597 you say you slightly like me, list one reason to like me, then half a dozen reasons why you think I'm suspicious. Why not "this post from simoyd is good, but the rest is crap" or something similar? This just sounds forced.

Semantics. That is pretty much what I said. You started a push and then it went downhill, I liked your 97 and 101. Then I didn't see anything else I liked. Those two walls are literally my notes as I read through the game.

In post 664, BlankFace wrote:
Accountant and Simoyd are at the top right now

considering how hard I pushed him (even at the point you read) this makes no sense. We couldn't both be scum.

I never said you were a scum team.

In post 664, BlankFace wrote:
I'm also incredibly drunk right now

and you have a job interview, and you start a new job soon. I get it, RL interferes with the game sometimes, but it's also convienient...

And yet here I am, posting. IV got away with lurking day 1 for vacation. Me being drunk didn't stop me from posting, me having an interview didn't stop me from posting, me starting a new job [earlier today actually] hasn't stopped me from posting. So what exactly is your point?

also feel free to read 806 again...

Playing up the "I'm new and they know so much more then me!" card. That is what is weak about it.


So.... what inconsistencies?

And yeah, you can have it. IV is my second top scumread. I'll make a case on him later on tomorrow.

[BlankFace]

I am still incredibly comfortable with my vote on Simoyd:

Takes 4 to lynch when there's 7 total. Blank is L-1

UNVOTE:

Yes. Either postie or blank has to die today. I think both provide about the same information once they flip.

I favor blank for my vote, but since I get yelled at whenever I put someone at L-1, I'll leave myself unvoted for now...

I no longer think Lycan should be lynched today, but I will be questioning his shit once I get home.

I went from L-2 to L-1 and Simoyd, who clearly wants me lynched, unvotes and justifies it with "
I favor blank for my vote, but since I get yelled at whenever I put someone at L-1, I'll leave myself unvoted for now..." Appeasement, plain and simple.

RC puts Postie to L-2 in 688 and Simoyd's immediate response is to say that RC is sheeping him [lolwat] and then:

I think blank should have more votes than postie

VOTE: BlankFace

>> L-1 <<

So basically, his scumpool was tied at votes, which if he was town and actually hunting would be great for him. Instead, he sees Postie put under the same pressure as me and puts me a L-1. Makes me think he's either sheeping everyone else's suspicions of Postie or is her partner. Reading over RC's posts about Simoyd rushing every lynch besides Postie, I have to agree. Happened with the Lycan vote, and conveniently now that Lycan isn't under threat of being lynched anymore he isn't suspicious of Lycan anymore, and it happened with me as well. If Simoyd was serious about me/Postie as a scum team, he would have been fine with either one of us.

[BlankFace]

Wtf RC

I'm around but it's a holiday weekend so I don't have a ton of time.

[BlankFace]

Another thing. Seems like the setup is column C. This means that both of the Mafia are Goons. So both of them would know that RC was lying yesterday. They must have been surprised by RC's claim, considering they knew that he is town. Both Blank and Postie insisted that we wait for Lycan and Blank, to see if anyone would CC PR. I have a problem with that:

IV and Postie both supposedly scumread Blank and Lycan. Why insist on waiting for them if they believe they are scum?

Here is why. Because they knew RC was lying, so they did it just in case he was a VT, so then he would have to 1v1 whoever was the PR between Blank or Lycan, while they could just sit back and sip tea.

I didn't insist on anything. I wasn't here for the clustering at the end of the day yesterday.

[BlankFace]

I'm scum? I've had to deal with that for three days now an I've yet to even see a decent case.


And again, it's Lylo, if Postie isn't scum or if I get quick lynched by scum we lose.

[BlankFace]

vote postie[\b]

Yeah.

[BlankFace]

VOTE: postie[\vote]

[BlankFace]

VOTE: postie

[BlankFace]

Hello Twlight my old friend... Thank you RC for lunching Simoyd.

[BlankFace]

Apologies to Simoyd though. I wanted to keep you alive until Lylo. But it would have been too weird if the everyone jumped on Postie.

It's all good. I realized that we talked about being around at the same time but not about any signals to pull the trigger on it lol

But for real Hark, never vote right off the bat in Lylo.

[BlankFace]

Well that was an interesting spot to replace into. GG everyone.

[BlankFace]

Wait what. I just read the night actions. Why did you clear me?

[BlankFace]

To be fair, there as a fair amount of paranoia that you were fake claiming.

[BlankFace]

What could I have done to improve my scum game? I felt like I was in a rough spot when I replaced in and I didn't do much to improve it.

[BlankFace]

Lycan was obvtown all game. When I was doing my read through, i knew he was never getting lynched.