Mini 1802: Paint Mafia Sequel - Game Over!

[Thor665]

Just skimmed a bit of the top posts on this page, am I confirmed town by posting? Because that would be super sexy.
If not, people should tell me what's going on - I'll be back here tomorrow morning to actually read things and be brilliant, but you can try to bribe me to your side with blathering praise of my manly sexiness.
Just saying.

[Thor665]

Before you start to read you need to claim.

You're the only one left. Claim in your next post.

I'mma love you, but maybe I'mma actually go and find this supposed mass claim happening before I just rando claim.

[Thor665]

I found th emass claim, people aren't particularly claiming their colors.

I think at this point I'll claim town/blue and clarify that I currently have no alignment relevant info.

What's up otherwise?
You should have linked me to the mass claim, I'm paranoid and distrusting by nature.
You also could have said a case, all I got to see was about three pages of Dwlee and Ira kinda hating on each other.

Why did you want to flip yourself?

[Thor665]

Like, I read your claim twice and it doesn't make much sense to me.

[Thor665]

Then shouldn't you vote me?

Can you explain Sotty's self lynch plan?

[Thor665]

Also, could the next reaction test be remotelynew or interesting? Seriously - how much do I need to clarify boredom with them?

[Thor665]

Sotty is advancing a concept of wanting to lynch himself to figure out his color to figure out my alignment.
Like...if I was town, and I wanted to figure out Thor - I can't conceive of thinking that a self lynch would be the easiest answer option.
A lynch of who you want to figure is the easiest option.
It makes no sense.

[Thor665]

If colors can change and have no relevance to alignment - why does any of it matter?

[Thor665]

Like, let's say we could get mod confirmed color results on everyone right this second - would it solve the game?
If yes, why do you need to be flipped to learn about another color?
If no, why do you care about the other color?

[Thor665]

Do you think all scum started red and all town started blue?

Judging by the setup that is within the realm of possibility, and certainly within Ockham's for any given town/scum.

Then shouldn't you vote me?

Can you explain Sotty's self lynch plan?

Katsuki is confirmed scum

Then shouldn't you be voting them?
How are they confirmed scum?

Wingback, Thor's slot, voted to flip himself and yet Thor is suspicious of me now for wanting to do the same.

I mean, try wrapping your head around that for one second.

I feel like you're implying hypocrisy here, while not defending your stance, nor actually showing hypocrisy.
So...yeah, impressive. Whassup?

[Thor665]

I defended my stance and you are being hypocritical. If you are town, the one town person you know did the same thing I did. You are making no sense and are still very much my top scum read despite the color flips.

Well...okay, let's dance this silly dance.

1. I never called what you did scummy. So, for starters, to call me hypocritical over it - the only evidence you've got is me saying the plan makes no sense.
2. I also asked you to explain your plan - again, no hypocrisy.
3. I see no hypocrisy in me thinking your plan makes no sense whether or not a former occupier of this slot decided to do the same plan or something similar.
4. If my slot wanted to flip your slot, that is different than your slot wanting to flip your slot per what I described as not making sense in your plan, which *AGAIN* shows no hypocrisy.

So basically you either don't understand what I've said, or are making stuff up, or don't know what hypocrisy means.

Want to explain your silly plan now?

I am currently not leading a quick lynch on Katsuki despite clearly having the votes for it because the info I have is not a full picture. I want Kastuki to come back and make some attempt to play the game and figure this out, because if he is town he has been setup to be the perfect mislynch.

As far as I can see there is no evidence to particularly support a Katsuki lynch beyond colors, which, according to you, are all crazy jumbled anyway.
Which makes that a dumb lynch.

[quote="In post 2061, Dwlee99"Sotty claims to have been colored last night. There can only be 5 color changes in the game. This means out of the people we have colors for one has to be their true color. Zulfy is dead and flipped town, and the other 3 of us are a mix of colors. This means katsuki started the game red.[/quote]
That doesn't prove Katsuki is scum, and would also require Sotty to be town to even begin that as a debate point.
Is he confirmed town?

[Thor665]

Okay, that still makes it an either or.

What is kraske being Pie's strongest town read doing to confirm Sotty?

[Thor665]

Sotty didn't claim till lylo, right?
If he claimed prior to lylo this is a different conversation though more one of 'what were you doing with your lynches?'.

[Thor665]

I AM TRUSTING PIE'S READ ON SOTTY

Okay, so both of your confirmed reads are based on your personal value call of Pie's read as well as your mod theory.

Does Pie have a high quality of history in reading Sotty?

[Thor665]

@Sotty 0 how do you feel about Dwlee's read of you through Pie?

[Thor665]

That's actually the point of his question - by what evidence do you presume town are auto start blue and scum auto start red?

[Thor665]

ii) Each player is assigned a colour. The standard colour for town is blue. The standard colour for groupscum is red.

Because this is all I see - and it doesn't say that.

[Thor665]

town!thor doesn't come into the game and just ask a bunch of dumb questions

What the hell are you even smoking?

[Thor665]

town!thor doesn't come into the game and just ask a bunch of dumb questions

What the hell are you even smoking?

I dont do drugs

Then why are you saying insane things?
Like - do you have any evidence that this is not how town Thor replaces into games?
Because I have my own opinion of how I replace in, but I'd like to see you back up yours.

Sotty7 is confirmed as town-aligned, because kraska accidentally claimed PR when she replaced in, and the way she did it also makes perfect sense with Sotty7's claim:

Hey guys
I only read like 3 pages so far
But umm...i have reason(related to my role) to believe that mafia can change colors in this game
Is there an explanation for this or...?

That is thin, but I can see some logic there.

Is there any evidence that scum can't change their color to blue?
And why would scum change any color to anything other than blue or red?

Name me one contribution to the thread thor as done? None
He has sat here and asked meaningless questions ever sine he replaced in so he can look busy. It is a joke

Well...I have only been in the game about 24 hours.
During that time my posting has been as functional as yours - I've asked "meaningless" questions and you've made "meaningless" accusations with no actual logic backup (and, apparently have been quite honked off that I'm questioning the status quo).

I'm not sure why you think that confirms me as scum, but you do seem very aggressive on your reads for someone not placing a vote.
So why are you lying to me about how strongly you believe what you're spewing?

[Thor665]

I don't have any hard ones yet or I'd be voting them. I also haven't had a chance to interact with Katsuki yet.

I will admit that Dwlee is pinging me for the stuff I mentioned. He is expounding to the point of claiming the game is solved, based off hard line reads that he can't support, and evidenced with a bombast of language paired with a lack of placing votes. That does not sit well with me as a theory town mentality. If he believed what he was saying, he should be voting, and if he didn't believe what he was saying, then he shouldn't be acting like failure to see the self evident is a scumtell. If Day ended in thirty seconds and I was given a Day vig, he would die.

He seems to lack a clear partner yet, because he is clear hard buddying you (theory town, though I'm wondering about the color flips as relate to your role) but Ira isn't gelling with him as a partner, and is actually donking on him a touch (suggests theory town but I'm a little neutral on how he also calls you confirmed off a slim hunch). Kat is the mystery, but seems the logical theory partner, which would justify the hardcore statements of belief in the case, and also the lack of willing to vote over it paired with trying to hard set me up as the lynch for tomorrow.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around you though, because you are functionally doing a 1 v 1 in a lylo situation while being called confirmed town, which is a classically tailor made scum play, but I'm trying to sort your aversion to the hard line and whether I town or scum vibe that.

I also have the mystery of the color choices, which seems like scum was smoking something to me.

[Thor665]

Is there any evidence that scum can't change their color to blue?
And why would scum change any color to anything other than blue or red?

THOR
LOOK AT THE COLOR FLIPS WE HAVE RIGHT NOW
NONE OF THEM ARE BLUE
THIS POST IS MEANINGLESS!!!!

I understand that none of the color flips, outside of Katsuki, are blue or red.
What I'm wondering is the why of that situation.
So read my post again till the rather simple question comes to mind.

Like, say I'm scum and you're town - why would I want to change your color to purple, as opposed to changing it to red?

Thor is calling me scum for not voting him yet in

lylo

when we have near confscum in katsuki >_>

Actually I'm calling you scum for not voting Katsuki.

[Thor665]

Though apparently now that I've pointed out the issue with your reality Katsuki is now "near" confscum.
Funny how that shift happened.
#notfunny.

[Thor665]

The smart scum play would have been to change as many players to red as possible to make the endgame be all red.
Or all blue, either way - the goal would be to take the most expeidient path to make the color flip info meaningless which would be the red path, but let's presume scum are dumb.
There is zero value in changing a town player to purple, black, white, or fuscia if the only end goal of those colors is to confuse.

Unless scum can't change colors from blue to red and vice versa - which the flip info does not appear to support.
Which is making me wonder if they got caught out with the purple, causing a shift in optimal play choice.
Timing wise that appears to make sense with the single red flip from a town and no blue scum flips.

Insert your next rant below.

[Thor665]

P sure last game scum had a one shot of their colors. So they have to choose different paints for each player. They couldn't go all red or all blue cause of the x-shot on colors.

You are wrong, scum had infinite red paint and only one shot of blue paint last game.
If you think scum only had one shot of blue - who did they use it on?
If you think scum had no blue and only one red shot, wouldn't the optimal strategy be to start immediately painting over red - with, say, purple?

[Thor665]

I remain confirmed town except if Katsuki is scum.

are you saying that you know how the paint mechanics have worked this whole time and yet you were acting completely oblivious to it earlier to try to do a pseudo town slip?
and the optimal strat would be to paint over everyone as a different color, not just scum

Nothing suggested that I was trying to town slip - do you see something suggestive of that?

Why is the optimal strategy to paint over everyone, as opposed to painting all town red or all scum blue?
While we're at it, I would still like you to back up your theory that all town started as blue and all scum started as red. That is required for your conf scum claim (now shifted to mostly confirmed, natch) on Kat to make sense, yeah?

sounds kinda like someone was reading a scum chat and educated themselves on the scum's purpose of painting me purple lol

Kind of an odd dodge of the questions I asked you.
So your theory is scum painted you purple because the logical move for scum to do would be to paint themselves purple, so they did it to you to set you up?

[Thor665]

I remain confirmed town except if Katsuki is scum.

Though really the only point here is Sotty.

[Thor665]

you came off trying to seem ignorant to the way the paint worked in order to seem town. just a bad vibe i got

How did I "try" to seem ignorant? I actually only really asked why scum would choose a particular strategy for paint changing - that is a valid question and does not imply ignorance at all.
I think you're making this up.

we've been over this
a limited amount of paint would mean that scum would be unable to just paint everyone red

What leads you to believe scum have a limited amount of paint?
They didn't in the last game.
Was there discussion about how unlimited paint was unbalancing last time?

NO TOWN CLAIMED TO HAVE STARTED RED
Katsuki has claimed that they started out as blue!
THEY CLAIMED TO START AS BLUE
but they didn't start blue. They started red >_>

I will agree no town claimed they started as red.
I will agree Katsuki claimed he started as blue.
Neither bit of info actually answers my question as to why you presume all town started as blue and all scum as red - you were even discussing a scum godfather a while ago, which doesn't appear to exist, and also are not discussing any idea of scum having blue paint or not.

I think that the goofy colors suggests a lack of blue paint.
I think by town being made red without claiming it suggests bad town play or scum with at least some red capability.
If I was scum, and couldn't make myself blue, and had limited ability to make town red, my goal to protect from paint investigation would be to early limit the possibility of a red paint check, and to also kill blue paint flips.
Scum appears to be following at least half of this strategy.
For you to be town, what is your theory for why they didn't follow the first half?

I didn't really read the entire argument for why it is "optimal" but that would probably be a good reason to do so

Yeah...the other option is that Ockham says you're scum.

[Thor665]

you came off trying to seem ignorant to the way the paint worked in order to seem town. just a bad vibe i got

How did I "try" to seem ignorant? I actually only really asked why scum would choose a particular strategy for paint changing - that is a valid question and does not imply ignorance at all.
I think you're making this up.

we've been over this
a limited amount of paint would mean that scum would be unable to just paint everyone red

What leads you to believe scum have a limited amount of paint?
They didn't in the last game.
Was there discussion about how unlimited paint was unbalancing last time?

NO TOWN CLAIMED TO HAVE STARTED RED
Katsuki has claimed that they started out as blue!
THEY CLAIMED TO START AS BLUE
but they didn't start blue. They started red >_>

I will agree no town claimed they started as red.
I will agree Katsuki claimed he started as blue.
Neither bit of info actually answers my question as to why you presume all town started as blue and all scum as red - you were even discussing a scum godfather a while ago, which doesn't appear to exist, and also are not discussing any idea of scum having blue paint or not.

I think that the goofy colors suggests a lack of blue paint.
I think by town being made red without claiming it suggests bad town play or scum with at least some red capability.
If I was scum, and couldn't make myself blue, and had limited ability to make town red, my goal to protect from paint investigation would be to early limit the possibility of a red paint check, and to also kill blue paint flips.
Scum appears to be following at least half of this strategy.
For you to be town, what is your theory for why they didn't follow the first half?

I didn't really read the entire argument for why it is "optimal" but that would probably be a good reason to do so

Yeah...the other option is that Ockham says you're scum.

[Thor665]

pieguyn [3]

- Nahdia, TehBrawlGuy, pieguyn

Katsuki

[6] -

RadiantCowbells, Zulfy,

Ira, Dwlee99,

kraska77

,

Katsuki

Not Voting [1]:

Thor

pieguyn [1]

- Zulfy

Dwlee99 [5] -

pieguyn

, Thor,

ChaosOmega

, Dwlee99,

kraska77

Katsuki

[1]

- iraonavp

Not Voting [1]:

Katsuki

Eh, food for other people to look at, I was hoping for a brighter insight than I got.

[Thor665]

I think that the goofy colors suggests a lack of blue paint.
I think by town being made red without claiming it suggests bad town play or scum with at least some red capability.
If I was scum, and couldn't make myself blue, and had limited ability to make town red, my goal to protect from paint investigation would be to early limit the possibility of a red paint check, and to also kill blue paint flips.
Scum appears to be following at least half of this strategy.
For you to be town, what is your theory for why they didn't follow the first half?

I just realized how bullSmurf this entire argument is. Cause I could have been painted night 1, night 2 or night 3. We know katsuki started the game as red, but it is possible that one of the scum painted themselves night 1 night 2 or night 3 (you and ira are both still alive who have flipped non-blue and non-red). So the only thing you're saying is that one of the scum painted themselves not blue or not red nights 1 - 3 which no fucking duh all of the people who could be scum flipped non-blue and non-red.

Not Katsuki though.
And you're voting him.

[Thor665]

I remain confirmed town except if Katsuki is scum.

Though really the only point here is Sotty.

Okay, sell me Dwlee + iraonvp. I get the feeling you haven't read the game, mostly because your arguments have been based off today's events. I suggest you get on that ASAP because I'm reading Dwlee and iraonvp as town just based off reactions over today and yesterday and everything is just screaming at me to hammer Katsuki.

I don't particularly think that's the scum pair with you confirmed.

The question to me is Ira+Kat or Dwlee+Kat.

Do you see Ira+Kat as an option?

P.S. I will read things people want to link as important, but, no, I refuse to read the whole game - that is pointless.

[Thor665]

Pretty much our opinions on other things should either be hardline or soft as hell, but I also tend to expect you to end up dead almost regardless, so I actually kind of want to hear your thoughts. If you think maybe by being guarded you somehow don't end up dead, great, but I wouldn't want to put money on it as a theory.

I did a scan on Ira+Dwlee yesterday when I got suspect of the speed of his jump after I called him on lack of vote, but there appear to be too many times they're digging at each other for it to really vibe as partners to me. I could of course be wrong, but that's my take on the theory. I suspect the real question is which of Ira or Dwlee are bussing.

[Thor665]

Your rush keeps accelerating with no actual real new info from your perspective.
Chill.

[Thor665]

VOTE: Aristophanes
DEADLINE WAGON GOOOO

can we just call me conftown for this post and let me decide if it is ira or thor tomorrow please

If you have a history of not bussing, we sure can.

Why would you think Ira is scum considering you're calling me obv. scum?

@Sotty;

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8258290
and
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8261023

If that's buddy behavior with Kat as town, then I have no beard.

[Thor665]

[Thor665]

I think that you guys are taking it too slow and it's obviously Katsuki... Should just hammer unless there's anything else to say.

Sotty has explicitly said there are things they still want to hear.
I have indicated a general suggestion of wanting to hear more from Sotty.
So, yes, people are expressing a desire to hear a few specific things.
We all agree Kat is the valid lynch for the day, so...

[Thor665]

Actually Sotty might not, but that's part of their request for what they wish to hear, and I'm fine with it.

[Thor665]

Yeah, so?
Does it hurt you to have posts that you want to ignore happen?
No - okay then.

[Thor665]

You mean like you did until I pointed out that your claims weren't matching up with your actions?
Yeah, how terrible that is.

[Thor665]

YOU ARE CONFIRMED TO HAVE STARTED RED THERE ISNT A STINKING NONBLUE GODFATHER IN THE GAME

Why is that confirmed?

Thor are you willing to hammer?

Depending on how Dwlee answers that question, yeah. Because if it's confirmed, then Kat is assuredly confirmed - also I don't like the lack of a vote being placed by someone who sees 'confirmed scum' and consider that a very strong tell.

I'd kind of like to hear Dwlee flap around with his answer though, because I'm pretty sure I've called the team and want to make that clear to people, because I think he's pushing his bus to derp levels to try to make up for me pointing out how soft his shtick was earlier.

Do you agree with my point about Ira+Dwlee being highly unlikely? I think it's telling.

[Thor665]

Link me to one of the billion quotes?

[Thor665]

I mean, I'm pretty sure it's not confirmed - I just want to see you back up the insanity you're now claiming is fact.
It shows the lack of actual scumhunting, just let me prove that point and then we can hammer Kat.

PEdit - how does that confirm anything?

We have;
Dwlee
Ira
Wing
Sotty
Zulfy

All with non standard colors (or a flip)

We have Kat claiming a flip of his color.

That means that Kat can be scum OR that a non standard color exists.

Either is possible to be true but the only way one is confirmed is if you know something you're not saying.
Up until I and Sotty didn't hammer you had no reason to believe there was no GF. Right?

[Thor665]

I mean, theoretically, for Sotty and I - ou or Ira could be a GF - we can't claim assured knowledge of lack of GF, yes?
Only you and Ira can.
Or Kat, though in reverse.

[Thor665]

It is simple setup spec..
Why would cheetory put a godfather in the game that was defaulted to be a non-blue color? He wouldn't. This means that the alternate colors had to be assigned over night, proving that katsuki started red

Yeeeeeah.

In other news
No Whammy, no whammy
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STOP!

Mjolnirtime.

Vote: Katsuki

@Sotty - you were not particularly helpful - I almost hope they kill me and leave you to do the sort.

[Thor665]

I feel like you're being serious, which annoys me - I explicitly discussed why I ruled out a given team, outed a clear lack of logic in my theory team's fake scumhunting, and your Kat conversation was pretty meaningless. I do think I was helpful, I don't think you were. :shrug:

[Thor665]

Was it white as the GF, the Purple seemed more like an intentional screw with town choice.

[Thor665]

Also, why the hell did you kill Zulfy?
I pondered the reasoning behind that one forever and couldn't figure out how it benefited any scum at all.

[Thor665]

Vote: Dwlee

Crazy not fake. Sorry Ira.

[Thor665]

I'm actually chuffed for this win, kind of thought scum whiffed themselves with the Night 5 kill choice, and Dwlee's assessment of the night logic of the game was spot on, and the rest of town was at least not fighting the situation. Felt like a 50/50 heading into this phase, and I usually feel stronger going into lylo than that.

[Thor665]

Oh gawds, I just tossed the game

Oh well, maybe Mod will quick end it.

[Thor665]

Ira, you rule (also I hate you)

[Thor665]

Yeah, sure, let's go through the motions for yucks.

[Thor665]

Ouch - I'm not sure whether to feel better or worse that no one actually intended the trap.

[Thor665]

Bah, town deserved to have me roll them

[Thor665]

That is sadly true.