Open 647: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Maruchan]

VOTE: aneninen first person to talk after night is obv scum.

[Maruchan]

murderkat, he's saying it's not that hard to find. you could literally open the mod's profile ,hit view topics, and control f "diffusion", and find it within 5 minutes. The point Chip was making was not that it was Try!Hard for Town!Points to want to read the game, we should ALL want to read the past game for setup spec.

What Chip is complaining about is that he literally JUST says "hey guys look i want to do some setup spec, im so town, but while im trying hard to do town things, i'm also too lazy to spend the ten seconds to look up the game myself, so this is just a surface attempt at looking helpful"


The message the question is meant to portray is completely contrary to the message he actually displays by asking the question. he wants to display "look at how involved I am" but he actually displays "look at how lazy i am while trying to look involved"


Was a really good catch by Chip. when i first read it the post confused the shit out of me, I had no idea what game the man was talking about! I knew there was another diffusion of power game hosted at somepoint iirc from the game blurb when the mod /in'd to mod in the queue. But his post was very ambiguous about it what he was asking for. However, I don't think it's a serious enough infraction on day one for use to start putting serious!votes on him.

However, unless he comes in and tells us the results of his research he said he was going to do (but to lazy to research the topic himself), I am highly inclined to vote him. So, podoboq, how'd that research go?

[Maruchan]

What's pinging me about 27 is that I'm being talked to in a way (tone wise) that usually only comes about when someone has a strong town read on me later in the game. There's of course no way to know I'm town yet, unless you are scum. I also don't like the "it's a really good catch" part (feels like a buddy) but then saying it's not worthy of a vote. But then unless you give content he's highly inclined to vote. It feels like he doesn't have a real opinion, but he's trying to make it seem like he does.

I'm goign to jsut break this donw bit by bit.

1. Tone. You can gauge tone over internet? Have you gotten in contact with all the famous things like Ripley's Giuness, etc (IDK how to spell them)? Might be able to sell this skill as an oddity.

Real number 1 now that the sarcasm is over: You decided that I was acting like I had a town read on you, based off of me explaining something? Like are you for real? No. I don't have a read on anyone. I suck at reads. Over analyzing and making cases and arguments I'm good at. Implying that because I overtly explained a concept to you, means i have subconsciously labeled you as town, is just dumb. Whats even dumber is to do so "based on past experience" when that past experience is with complete random other people that aren't me. I like to be able to communicate/explain/teach. I enjoy the feeling that something i expanded up[on helps someoen else understand something better. Period. real life, mafia, good/bad guy, whatever. Thats a personality trait. Deal with it.

2. Saying pointing out someone's good catch's is buddying. So we're all independently scummhunting here? there's no group cohesion?

Mod go ahead and close the topic, we don't need it anymore. We can scumhunt without the rest of these fools, on our own. That whole group-process to finding scum is overhyped apparently

(I guess I wasn't done with the sarcasm). Pointing out that you didn't notice something, that someone else did, and that you agree with it, encourages more content from them. It's a concept called positive reinforcement. Think of potty training a dog. I'll give three examples that are the most similar to ways I could have reacted to someone else posting good content. So, I have a new dog I'm trying to pottytrain. he goes pee in the house. Lets take option 1. Ignore it and not give positive or negative reinforcement. He has no lesson to learn one way or the other as I haven't given him a lesson. He continues to pee in the house. He pees outside. We take Option 1 again and not give a positive or negative reaction. He never gets pottytrained nad he keeps peeing inside and outside, both good and bad actions, and he never becomes a better dog. Skip to option 2. He pees inside. You scold him. You punish him. You've negatively reinforced the behavior. He goes pee outside, no reaction. He's confused. He knows you DON'T want him peeing inside, but doesn't know that you DO want him peeing outside. Maybe he thinks he just cant pee in that room, and he tries another room, still a bad action. eventually by process of elimination, he will learn that the only thing that is not negatively-reinforced is the outside. the one good option. this takes forever. Skip to option 3. He goes pee inside. You do nothing. he doesn't stop peeing inside, no lesson learned. he pees outside. you give him a treat. he goes ecstatic over that treat and wants to learn how to get more. he goes pee inside again and gets no treat. he gets a treat when he goes pee outside. OH SHIT. He's just learned the quickest way to get treats is to pee outside, and he IMMEDIATELY ceases peeing inside, because he wants fuckin treats yo! You've just pottytraiend your dog.


of coruse the most efficient way is to combine postive and negative reinforcement to back each other up, BUT IF YO UCOULD ONLY postive OR ignore OR negative, the best thign is to positive.

same thing to player participation in a game. You keep telling them they are doing the right thing, you appreciate their efforts, you want them to continue trying, you'll get good engaged, players who actively try to scumhunt.
you just keep telling them when they are wrong, they get apathetic, they lurkmoar, they proddodge, they resent you, the game stagnantes.


I think telling someone they made a Good!Post, is the best option here yeah? Not buddying. Encouraging pro-town behavior.


3. Not worthy of a vote. This is fucking Page 1, Day 1, less then 10 posts into the game, random voting/question stage. NO CONTENT here is usually EVER worthy of a Serious!Vote, this early. I was not willing to make the irst Serious!Vote of the game, based of this little.

You have no qualms, you mate the first Serious!Vote of the game, on me, for over-analyzing something. While your justification is misguided, your willingness to stick your neck out earns townie points. good job. Now just try to annoy me less when you earn your towny points and we'll get along just fine.


4. I didn't have a really good opinion. I wasn't trying to seem like I was. I apologize if you got that impression. I was merely trying to expand on a point that was only briefly made, to more publicly cement that point into the collective group psych, so as to ensure it stuck, and wasn't glossed over. Later, based on podoboq's future actions, this point is either 100% null, or can back up a pattern of future scummy behavior.


Glad to see my inherent personalty quirks continue to get me scumread out the gate. Go take a quick meta on the playerslots in my most recent 2-3 games, and tell me you see any difference in the play of my first post here than in those, and then take a look at what roles i flipped in them.


I love how you and SirCakez are pinging on me for "trying to appear to do something when not actually doing anything" when that's exactly what we were pinging on podoboq about. -.-



Literally #62 and #63 stopped me from frustration replacing out after #60 and my last game I played. I'm sick of people getting on me for over-explaining stuff, when that's just my fucking personality


Ranger wtf is your #64-#66, I don't even understand. You did that same shit last game and i never fucking understood wtf you were doing



@Murdercat #95, proddign someone to respond to your post, when they have yet to post after it is stupid. They likely haven't read your post yet. Take al ook at their "Last Online" on their profile.

Or meta me in any game for the past 3 years, and learn I'm in the Navy and have a hectic schedule, and if you read an older game you'd know we go underway often where I only get internet during Evening hours, and if you read a recent game you'd know I'm on deployment right now, which is permanently underway, with internet only during evening hours. I literally cannot respond to your post any quicker.

be assured, I do read each and every post, and I do make massive wall-style catchups to every post since my last post. I just take awhile to do it. If i don't respond to a specific line of inquiry, AFTER I make my post, fee lfree to ping me on it.

[Maruchan]

Will post catchup shortly. Lots of good stuff for me to comment on I see (Y). RE: whoever asked me if I always do walls, yes. See my last post regarding the restrictions on my internet access, and you'll understand I can't be here during the progressing discussion, but I still have my 2 cents about the discussion I wish to toss in, and make sure they are heard, so that equates to wall posts when lots of content happens in the 12 hour days I have without internet access. Expect my next wall (in like an hour or two) to be on the same level as my last.

MOD: I will be Semi- V/LA starting tomorrow. I can't tell you an exact end of my V/LA, but you'd be safe to estimate the ballpark of a week. I will still log in, and post, but it won't have as much content. We're pulling into port, and I will be busy seeing the sites, drinking the booze, and standing the watches on duty

[Maruchan]

Agree with the above, and...

SirCakez was scum in the original roll open 640. The *only* scum from 640 who made it into the re-roll. What are the chances that he pulled scum again?

VOTE: SirCakez

VOTE: karnos
I was waiting for something....else, but no, this is still it. There needs to be some pressure on karnos to make him actually participate, because this doesn't count.

This is a good post. We were starting to slowly pull ourselves out of RVS at that point, and here comes Karnos rolling back in with a "Hey have some RVS bishes!" post, and no help to the game at all. He tries to throw a shred of validity on it by WIFOMing "what are the odds" of back to back scum rolls. Which in a game of exactly the same setup, the odds of back to back scum roles,

are the exact same odds of any single one of us rolling scum

because each game is played in a bubble, so outside factors do not place any pressure on the pure randomness of each game.

VOTE: podo
n-0 guilty confirmed, his buddy is probably maruchan

Speaking of players trying to drag us back into RVS hand over foot, here comes shotty. He (blatantly obviously sarcastically) pretends he is a night 0 cop, based off someone else attempting it in the last game, and says pod is scum (a little foreshadowing hindsight 20/20 thing, he later unvotes pod because he's too close to a lynch, showing how even more blatantly RVS this is). And hey look he puts at the towns other biggest scumread as his likely scumbuddy. that's like coming in and going "yeah, i agree with the over-all town consensus 100%, these two are the scum team. game over". yeahno. gtfo

Maru if you are going to overreact like that to every post about you, you are going to be lynched.

So you're saying, I won't get lynched because I'm scum. I won't get lynched because I'm scumym town. I'll get lynched because you don't like my personality trait of being overtly verbose and explaining everything to minute detail? I thought the goal was to find scum, not to find people who annoy us? But then again, this is from the guy who thinks scumhunting is done in a bubble, without any group interaction and support. Not surprising your methods point you towards those that annoy you rather than scum. Shitty methods, shitty results.

I'm ok with that.

VOTE: Podo

So you just jumped off of your biggest scumread who you still scumread, and who is the leading wagon, onto pod. Because shotty asked you to? wtf? if this isn't wishy-washy I don't know what is.

Because the unvote was terrible, really looks like he was looking for a reason to take it off.

You then go on to explain your vote less than a minute, almsot as an afterthought like "Oh shit, you know, maybe I should provide a better reason for my vote other than just following shotty". People who care who they lynch (IE: Town, who have to lynch correctly), don't come up with reasons for their vote, post-vote, as an afterthought. They have reasons they express before or in the same post as voting. Because the vote is the most powerful tool the town have.

I actually believe this

OK, so first I'm accused of coaching shotty, then I'm accused of buddying Maru, because I'm trying to explain my reasoning for townreading that wall? Did I get that about right?

remember, any time you expand upon your reads, or encourage good behavior, you're scum because scumhunting is an individual effort, not a group one. Of course you shouldn't explain why you townread someone.


The following interactions between penguin and murder bring up some good relevant content from penguin about Karnos' scum/town meta. Especially since it's from a personal friend of his, who has a higher likelihood of picking up subtler cues in a player's meta. (see singersigner and glork, as they've gotten close in their personal relationship, they can no longer play mafia together because singersigner can immediately read glork's alignment no matter what.)

Penguin wanna waddle over to the podo wagon?

Not relevant in context, but as I have skimmed the following pages, this is relevant because here shotty is deliberately begging for votes on pod, because he wants a serious wagon, but when that wagon forms all the way to l-1, shotty gets scared and abandons ship. This from the same player who on page two mentioned he loved applying pressure and being a hard-player. I'm seeing inconsistencies with him here.

...

Sooooooo....you're saying I am like a puppy you are training? Maybe you can train me to salivate when you ring a bell.

More seriously, this does look like an overreaction to me. I mean, a whole rant about puppy training just because I pointed out an over-the-top endorsement of a point I made? Are you Cesar Millan?

Don't know who Cesar Millan is, and it's not over the top for me. Go meta any scum or town game of me, and you will see the exact same gameplay. Especially in the past 3-4 games I've played while on deployment, when I have to make wall-posts in order to stay involved

@SirCakez's 126 asking me if I make a lot of walls: Yes. Sorry, its an unfortunate requirement of my current situation in life. In about a month, if this game is still ongoing, you will see a drastic reduction in wall posts from me, as I will be home from deployment and be much more constantly-proactive in the game. As an analogy, before I got to my first ship in 90% of the games I was in, at the point of my death/endgame, I usually had by far and above the most posts in the activity log of any player in the game. I was the most articulate player and active player typically. Since getting to a point in my career where I don't have constant 24/7 internet access, I have gotten less numerous in my posts, but I have gotten no less content into the posts I do make. So to make up for the lack of being able to actively participate in every discussion as it happens, I have to catch up all at once. PS: you also make a slightly decent point about pod's unvote, until pod breaks down his reactions immediately after you make your point.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: podoboq

This loosk sketchy as fuck, so I ISO'd you, and your previous posts made it look no less sketchy as fuck. A lot has happened since your last post, not the least of which being my giant wallpost (that some called overreacting), and pod's analysis of how my wallpost affected him directly. Is this vote saying yo udisagree with his analysis, and think we're both still scummy? Is this vote just a blind sheeping of SirCakez? WTF? (I see later, you point out yourself that your vote is sketchy, but that doesn't make it look less sketchy. Your reaction to me, as a player/playerslot would be helpful, as it was a major point for a lot of the back and forth in the 2-3 pages directly following my post yesterday.

- I'm playing in 3 other games at the same time. When we played previously, it was only ever one game at a time, so it had my full time devoted to a single game.

I want to vote you just because your posts are hard to read. Can you try to be a little more concise?

And weirdly, reading podobog defend you while analyzing your last posts makes me like your posts even less.

I really don't like your point 3 in 98: votes are free, and a vote or even a couple votes at this point isn't going to kill anyone. If nothing else, they provide useful pressure and can drive discussion.

Dividing your post into 4 points I want to address.
1. This is a shitty reason to give any less than your all to any game. If you can't play to your normal standards in any game because of the number of other games, you need to get the fuck out of some of those games. A SELF-INDUCED workload of games is NOT a valid excuse to not play your best game possible in any given game at any given time. Fix yourself.
2. Voting for someone based on a playstyle, and because you don't like their posts is fucking stupid. Deal with it, or ignore me and live with the fact you can't read my playerslot due to your ignoring of me. I can't be any more concise and get the points i want to make across. I can only make 1 sometimes 2 posts a day, and you guys are averaging 100 posts a day for me to react to. I will react to everything that happens in the game. I will not skim, I will not hold back, I will not provide any less content due to my limited posting schedule. I will provide the same content I would provide if I could post every 30 minutes. It just happens to all be in one post. I can't help that, I'm sorry it bugs you. Deal with it, or don't. It's not a good reason for lynching someone. Unless you're scum, then any reason to lynch not scum is a good reason.
3. I apologize that someone else's personal reactions to my post, makes you dislike my post? Thats really weird, and nothing I can do to change other people's personal reactions, so I don't know why you made this point.
4. Votes are free. They are also the most powerful weapon any town player has in any given game. When I can only apply one vote in a 24 hour period, why do you want me to waste it on anything less than someone I am 100% willing to be rid of, before I get a chance to check back in 24 hours later? You saw how fast the wagon on pod built. he went from no votes to L-1 in the span of my Sleep Time/Work Day. If I had voted him, that could easily have been a quicklynch while I was without internet access. Why would I want that? I will be sparing with my votes, and only place it where I WANT to lynch someone, and that is my personal choice, and it is not a bad choice.


@

Ranger

's #132, pod seems to be confused by your weird form of listing names that was posted three times consecutively on page 3, that I also addressed as being confused by. Can you please expand on this, and provide more detail as to what these lists are/mean/how you achieve them (especially for page 1 which had so little content, and some of the players on your list had totally not even posted) This is the second time and I am the second person who has asked you to expand.

My vote looks sketchy~~

I had an irresistible urge to just lynch a fucker, I'm not gonna lie to you :3 I'm awful.

There's still time to unvote him and lynch someone else though...

WTF is this? First, you point out how sketchy your vote was (it was very sketchy), then you DON'T EXPLAIN IT or make it any less sketchy, you then say you just want to lynch a fucker but don't care who (as in, you could care less if you think they are scum or not!) and continue on to suggesting we move the lynch onto someone else, without moving your vote. WTF is this even. you seriously need to explain this bro.

UNVOTE:

woah, l-1 legit on page 6? No no no, I'm not saying podo isn't scum but it seems more likely that this is a scum driven wagon. Could be both.

p-edit,
that post looked worse than your vote

More shotty. -.- sigh. Aight, so back to our earlier posts of you saying you like applying pressure. But you keep shying away from it? Then you fence sit like a mutherfucker "he MIGHT be scum still! BUT this might be a scum-motivated wagon, WHO KNOWS FOR SURE EH?". this looks really bad on you. THEN you continue on with "OR HEY HE IS SCUM

AND

SCUM ARE PUSHING HIS LYNCH!". Like, is that even a real thing you think is going on right now? less than 10 pages into day one, less than a week into the game, you think scum are hard-bussing their buddy?

I think smithereens looks not so good right now.

was thinking the same thing

VOTE: smith

i'm really not super keen about his defense on Maruchan.

pedit: right now i'm thinking karnos/shotty is tvt and they need to get the fuck over themselves.

I'm confused about this sequence of posts. you say smithereens looks suspicious, then mention a player defending me, which smithereens has yet to do. it was pod who was "defending" me. and by defending, i mean he was pointing out how he liked my reactions.

Also agree with smithereens' #116. transcend is my best townread at the moment.

Transcend's #116, is the "punishing the dog for peeing inside" of my example. He discourages us from posting or town reads, because he perceives it as buddying. Sharing your reads, both town/scum, is a good thing. it keeps for consistency. if you're always talking about your reads, it's easier to catch you out in being inconsistent with your reads.

Shotty's #169 is horrible and he is my biggest scumread at the moment, but I'd also be happy with a smithereens vote. VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Maruchan]

not enough time to do a real post, but i had time to skim, and want to post this here VOTE: Ranger he wants to play the "sure i can but you didn't ask would I" game, well this is my form of asking will he now.

enjoy

[Maruchan]

Expect a good post later tonight, but I have cell service real quick so I skimmed. Whoever said I'm frustrated townie, you're close. I'm frustrated all the time as any alignment. So that time you're reading is definitely the tone of someone frustrated with having to deal with the rest of humanity

[Maruchan]

If lynch within smithereens ranger and shotty at this point

[Maruchan]

I'll. Auto correct

[Maruchan]

this isn't opportunistic, I've been saying for days smith is in my lynchpool.

VOTE: smithereens

PS: I've skimmed / mostly followed everything going on since my last post, my life is just been a little hectic. I got drunk for the first time in my life (after spending 8 months attempting to get drunk at every port visit I could to no avail), I'm currently massively hard-pushing on a "certification" of sorts at work that is majorly eating into all my free time/internet time/sleep time. And my watch schedule has shifted to one that encourages me to go to sleep before I get internet access unlocked.

All in all, I've here, and i'm still tracking, and my current thoughts are the same (vote within shotty smith and ranger, maybe with a murdercat vote being a willling alternative if the other option is a no lynch due to clock ticking). I still will continue with my walls again starting on thursday/friday when I get a little less hectic. Tomorrow is my final oral exam for my certification I'm being pressured to get so It's my priority right this second.

all in all, lovin this game, sorry about my activity, etc.

lynch smith

[Maruchan]

willing to policy lynch smithereens at this point. any town who is willing to self vote at any point in the game is inherently playing against his win condition, and therefor not following the spirrt of the game minimum, rules depending on the mod. No town member should ever actively play against their win condition and lynch someone they have undeniable mod proof of the alignment

If you ever self vote as town, know you just stopped playing mafia to win.

[Maruchan]

For your reference Maruchan, I'm actively pursuing my wincon.

Win condition:
You win when all members of the town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

A vote is simply a quantifiable expression of the desire to lynch a player.

No, yo uare not. If yo uwere town, and you had a desire to lynch yourself, you as town are not a threat to the town, so that is not playing to your win condition. As scum, your goal is to eliminate town, and voting for yourself not only DOESN'T eliminate town, it restricts the number of scum-controlled votes available to try to guide the town's reactions. You are not playing to your win condition, whichever win condition you have. self voting is NAI, and policy-lynch worthy.

I think it's a bad play to vote for yourself [. . . .] but Maru is looking worse and worse.

you're being extremely contradictory here. Advocating a lynch on a scum read who also demonstrates horrible sub-par play for any alignment, makes me look worse. Okay?

RE: All of smithereens' posts on page 20, I hope you flip town so I can laugh at youin the graveyard for being the worst mafia player alive.


RE: everyone saying I called smithereens town, refer to my puppy dog training analogy. The post was aimed at training the rest of the players on what not to do (vote self as town), not saying smithereens was town.

[Maruchan]

smithereens has literally driven me to giving 0 fucks about this game, because I cba to play with someone so blatantly dumb. I actually kind of wish I would get lynched, just so I can make a "bah" post stating "-points at smithereens- hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. -walks away-" and be able to watch his in-game reactions to being a complete tool.

Anyways, a quick meta dive of my past games and people calling out "scumslips" on town.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... sf=msgonly Me and my MAFIA PARTNER, as MAFIA, called out a TOWNY PLAYER on his UBER BAD SCUMSLIP of responding to a fake day-vig shot as "nice shot" meaning he was caught-scum congratulating town. We successfully pushed this concept to lynching him day one, AND I AS A MAFIA MEMBER GAVE THE HAMMER AND SUCCESSFULLY AVOIDED THE SUSPICION!

Pro-scumslip-finding skills town, you dumbfucks.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... sf=msgonly in this game, espresso (who was town) "scumslipped" and said "I swear to fucking god I'm not town" as well as (in a game with a mechanic where the 9 players are within 3 pools of 3 and one of each pool of 3 is guaranteed to be scum) said that he would lynch the second day within his 3-player pool after lynching in it the first day (meaning he thought he was lynching town). Both of these were called out as scumslips, 1. for saying explicitly he wasn't town, and 2. for implying the vote he had was on town by saying he wasn't on his only scum in his 3-man group. CORRECTION: in TWO separate posts, TWO he said "I swear to fucking god I'm not town". Scumslip right? yet he was town as yo ucan see.

Was this a good scumslip eh?

There's more that I CBA to find but I'm going to go for one last one that is a self-meta.

Although now that I look back, I pretty much gave the town the win on a silver platter because timeater can not post a single word and he is still more likely to win.

As town, I said, after a fuckup that was BASICALLY HANDING THE GAME TO THE SCUMTEAM, that I had handed the

TOWN

the win on a silver platter. it was one of numerous "scumslips" I made in my <24 hours alive for the short as fuck day one of this game. Go read it, it's quite hilarious in hindsight.



So, please explain to me how reliable your "scumslip" theory is again? Especially when I already explained how it wasn't, and you completely ignored it?


RE: Anything else that happened since my last post, you'll have to ping me directly if you want input as simthereens' shitposting has made me completely skim through the past 10 pages of horse manure.

[Maruchan]

yall are fucking dumb and can't read a softclaim for shit

he just claiemd fucking doctor and says he thinks I'm a cop, and therefor finds my pro-town input to the game more important.



good job not letting that shit go. It was quite obvious that was a softclaim to anyone with a brain, but ya'll fools effed that up.

[Maruchan]

RE: SirCakez, I can't find the game to which you're referring, could you link it please?

[Maruchan]

Mod: I'm replacing out, between my inability to be active in the game and the players in the game who I can't stand playing with, you'll be better suited with another player. Sorry